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S3 Graphics Responds About Linux Support
V!NCENT writes "Phoronix has an update on S3's Linux driver state: 'We are doing an internal build of the Chrome 500 Linux driver to incorporate some of the additional hardware features and upgrades (over the Chrome 400 Series GPUs). If you want to test the Linux now, the Chrome 400 Series drivers also support the Chrome 500 Series since it is a unified driver architecture.'" (This after the beef that Phoronix raised about S3's failure to deliver on promises of better Linux support for the 500 series.)
that this wouldn't fly with Windows. They always get top of the line drivers delivered promptly...
/jealous
Bored at work? Play Game!
Who the heck are these people using S3 cards nowadays? Why aren't they buying low-end (sub-$80) nvidia or ATI cards?
You get practically the same performance (although 3D performance is far and away better on comparable nVidia/ATI cards) for the same price, the same small heatsink/fan, and better driver support.
Is there a populous of severely brain damaged geeks out there that I don't know about? If so, are any of you female, because I've been feeling lonely lately.
And I'll continue to use Mac OS X, which BTW, S3 Graphics doesn't care about.
It is common for companies to issue 'forward looking' statements and clueless positive outlook synergestic lies. Usually by marketing, sales and PR, they totally ignore the engineers, developers or any other employee that may actually know what the fuck they are talking about, and quite often sneer at them for 'not getting it'.
It is a syndrome that is quite common - a scientist says something like 'global warming is a problem'. Put a guy in a suit, call him a CEO or a politician, and his 'I'm confident . . .' bullshit will win almost every time.
So I simply refuse to believe ANY STATEMENT by these guys - they have ZERO credibility left.
Sa-Sa-Suck.
*nawcom dances around like a fool*
Honestly, the best thing to come of an S3 video card that I had was it did a nice job being used as a temporary flathead screwdriver.
as Bruce Perens famously said at Linux SF Con 2006, Linux is only free if your time has no value
Three years is a long time in computing years. Too bad you're missing out on everything linux has to offer nowadays. Enjoy your vendor lock-in, and don't forget, Microsoft wants you to pay the tax again in a year or so.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
These days, its sad if a hardware manufacturer doesn't support Linux. There are plenty of people literally begging for the specs of hardware so they can write clean, proper and free Linux drivers. If you are going to make low-end hardware as S3 does, you better make sure that Linux compatibility is one of the first things on you list.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
...just so people know...the linux driver available for download is at least 3 months old.
Chrome 400 Series: Linux Display Driver - x86
File Name
S3G-Linux-x86-Chrome4x.14.02.01.tar.bz2 (11,334KB)
Version Version: 14.02.01
Date: 11/19/2008
Description Release Type: Beta
- Initial release
GPU IDs: 9043, 9045
... is that not only are you completely right, you're also one of the few (perhaps 2% at most) of the entire consumer base (which of course includes law makers) that even would notice such a trend in PR practices in general. The bulk of the rest of the population either doesn't care enough to pay attention or isn't smart enough to.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
http://linux.via.com.tw/
Get your latest Linux drivers there. I went there to get better drivers for the two VIA systems I own that rely on Chrome drivers, and the newer drivers worked great.
S3's product site is here: http://www.s3graphics.com/en/products/
Because no-one ever had to re-install Windows.
My time isn't free, people *pay* me quite a lot of money to maintain their Linux systems.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
I work in IT (the dreaded Helpdesk job) and I have made a lot of money supporting Windows systems since Windows 95.
as Bruce Perens famously said at Linux SF Con 2006, Linux is only free if your time has no value
Three years is a long time in computing years. Too bad you're missing out on everything linux has to offer nowadays. Enjoy your vendor lock-in, and don't forget, Microsoft wants you to pay the tax again in a year or so.
So how much more time do you pay with Windows in time? it takes a frikking full day to update XP when you get up to date versions of Linux pretty easily...
as Bruce Perens famously said at Linux SF Con 2006, Linux is only free if your time has no value
Three years is a long time in computing years. Too bad you're missing out on everything linux has to offer nowadays.
Yes, I know he's trolling but you're not really countering his point. In the context that Bruce Perens used it, Linux isn't free nor will it ever be. Neither is paying for Windows. Neither is pirating Windows. Every hour spent on maintaining or fixing your machine, or any time wasted because you're less efficient in one OS than in another OS, or every time you must use an inferior application to one you could have been using you're losing value. It's fundamental opprtunity cost even if I'm not paid for that hour, where I could say work an hour less and still have the same net amount of personal time left. It's not just the question "Does Linux do everything I want?" but also "Is Linux more efficient at doing what I want?" or at least not worse than the price of Windows + apps. I'm using the desktop now and while I can say that it works out quite well, I'm not sure I can say it's a big win on TCO.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Every hour spent on maintaining or fixing your machine, or any time wasted because you're less efficient in one OS than in another OS
So, what you're saying is that Linux PAYS me to use it, since I'm far more efficient with it than with another OS.
Linux isn't free, it's BETTER than free!
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
So obviously both Linux and Windows have a time cost.
Although there still is only one that has an up-front money cost.
this past week and the slashdot editors completely ignore the submission:
http://slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=3481405&from=badge
Sigh...
How do you know that there isn't a bug in modinfo? Look at the driver not at modinfo.
Well I have had my computer for almost two years and I still have yet to reinstall Windows Vista, or either of the Linux installs for that matter.
Brandon
P.S. I'm a different AC
as Bruce Perens famously said at Linux SF Con 2006, Linux is only free if your time has no value
Huh, I think that is a quote by JWZ, from 1998.
You could argue that the time freed by completing the tasks you desire more efficiently in Linux allows you to perform more paid work, but claiming that therefore means Linux is paying you to use it is entirely deceptive and doesn't really advance the argument for Linux further as much as it causes people to gawk at the perceived intelligence of its vocal users. I'm quite sure anyone running around saying Windows pays them to use it because Photoshop is more efficient for them to use than Gimp would be smacked down with logic quite quickly, even if it provides them with additional time to complete additional paid work the OS isn't actually paying them.
No doubt I just got trolled, but I think if people try using this sort of argument to convince people to use Linux they're simply going to make themselves look deceptive rather than helpful.
Jamie Zawinski (the DNA Lounge/Unix Mozilla 1.1 guy) said it in 1998.
Just two years later, he took it mostly back.
It takes a grand total of 28 minutes with Autopatcher, 38 minutes if you add all the extras like Java,.NET,DirectX, along with the freebies like powertoys. And if you only have an XP SP2 disk, or even 2K3 or 2K, just use XP ISO Builder to make you a new disc with the newer service pack slipstreamed. It is so easy to use my oldest made his own reinstall disc so he could have the OS tweaked his way. You can make it unattended, add 3rd party programs, tweak the services, pretty much anything you want to do
With autopatcher it is all quite simple and only requires a single reboot to install all the patches, and with XP ISO builder even a child can use it if they read the labels. So why would you do it the old and busted way of using Windows Updates? And with autopatcher burn it to CD and you can update as many PCs as you like, even those on dialup. Great tools to have in your toolbox.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Password:
server@> sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade
$>
I don't even have to go to the server to upgrade, no touch of cd's, nothing. And if you do it once a week it'll take less than a minute. Beat that :-)
damn code block, somehow I managed to screw up the ssh 192.168.1.100 at the top ....
True enough, it has got much better since that quote in 2006, which is a hangover from earlier times.
It's really a quote that should go away. All of my systems that were set up for a purpose are install and forget. My oldest is OpenBSD 3.8 from 2005 happily serving web pages and imap. It would have over 400 days uptime by now if I hadn't accidentally yanked the power cord.
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
You have no idea how many people - on both sides of the Linux/MS divide - simply never stop to think to themselves "Hang on a minute, this is a boring repetitive task which takes a long time - exactly the kind of thing computers excel at - and I'm not making the computer do it?!"
And what do you do for customers on dialup? With autopatcher I simply burn the folder to disc.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Err simply burn the deb/rpm/tarballs to a disc? ....duh
I was criticizing the GP's logic, not advancing an argument. I thought that was clear.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
IIRC jwz has migrated to OS X.
At the very least, all the xscreensaver hacks have been ported to OS X's native screensaver.
I would bet a pint of massively dry-hopped microbrew that OS X is basically what he wanted from IRIX, without so much of the overpriced fail.
(and if you think Apple hardware is overpriced, just check the proprietary SGI RAM from that era...)
And I can hand THAT to a customer and they will understand how to use it? With autopatcher they have a nice GUI with everything labeled: Critical patches, bug fixes, add-ons, extras, etc. And I can take about 30 seconds and even make a nice autorun for the CD so when it is inserted they get the programs and can make their choices. What exactly do you think a home user is going to be able to accomplish with a bunch of tarballs?
Right HERE is the attitude thing I have talked about when it comes to Linux. Just because YOU are comfortable with CLI and compiling doesn't mean the vast majority of PC users would have even the tiniest chance in hell of pulling that off. It is just as I posted earlier when trying to find a solution for Lexmark all in one printers and getting "LOL, Luser, tell them to buy another printer! LOL Winblowz" which of course would have gotten me fired so I simply wiped the Linux PCs and put Windows on them. Problem solved. Until Linux can be used without EVER needing ANY CLI interaction by the user, and that includes fixes to common problems, than I am sorry but Linux simply isn't ready for the desktops of the majority of PC users. Sorry, no sale.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Eh, I support both Windows and linux boxes at work. Far more time is spent maintaining/fixing Windows. It's not even remotely close. So that begs the question... why pay extra for something that costs a lot to maintain anyway? Training users only goes so far.
Last time I checked with Ubuntu, it had a pretty GUI with the option to use a cd as a source.
It also came with all the 'extras' which you mention, out of the box, so burning them isnt required.
And this is the problem with people like you.
You look at Linux 10 years ago and assume it hasnt changed since then.
Linux advances at a far greater rate than Windows.
There are dicks on both sides. Dont become one yourself.
Until Linux can be used without EVER needing ANY CLI interaction by the user, and that includes fixes to common problems, than I am sorry but Linux simply isn't ready for the desktops of the majority of PC users.
Have secretaries become dumber in the past 20 years? DOS was entirely command-line based, and "everyone" used WordPerfect and Lotus.
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
Last year, actually. Have you support for Lexmark printers now? Thought not. And we are talking about UPDATES to the OS, NOT making an install CD. I know that for you Linux guys you just can't see why the Windows users "don't get it" but the simple facts are this: Their hardware doesn't work in Linux, the programs they use don't work requiring them to learn all new programs which may or may not have the features they require to get their job done, and CLI is an automatic no sale.
And let us be honest here: The SECOND there is anything wrong in Linux it is time for editing arcane config files or firing up Bash. Which is fine for you. You know your way around CLI, you know what the commands are and how to string them together to get what you want. Now let us compare that to the Windows experience. Despite what the other poster said about DOS nobody has actually used DOS in nearly 15 years, so most users don't have a clue about CLI and frankly don't WANT to know it. To them it is "primitive" and scary. They want a nice GUI with little checkboxes or wizards as that is what they are familiar with. If there is a problem it can often be solved with a driver, and if not a little time on a Windows forum and usually someone will point you to a .reg file that will fix the error.
I think we just need to accept some facts, as hard as it is for some to accept. Number One-Most of the money that goes into developing Linux is by far coming for those strictly interested in servers, such as Red Hat. Even Ubuntu is now in the server space because they know that is where the money is at. Servers are made for CLI and frankly a GUI is kinda pointless and a waste of resources, therefor developing GUI based tools to fix any problems is just not even on the list of priorities. And finally the most popular brand of printers for home consumers by a large margin simply doesn't work at all in Linux, which keeps the small shops from selling it and I'm willing to bet that is the reason Walmart isn't selling it either. With Lexmark holding such a large share of the printers there is no way I can sell Linux. You end up with too many returns from unhappy customers.
And please don't say bundle, because frankly Linux isn't OSX. The cheapest HP all in one is nearly 4 time the price of Lexmark's and folks just aren't going to pay $500+ for a Linux PC+printer combo when they can get a Vista combo from Dell for the same price with better hardware and a better chance of their software working. i honestly want Linux to take a chunk of the market, I really do. I believe in the free market and that competition will drive down prices and make it better for the consumer. But until I can have at least a 50/50 shot of the hardware they have at home working in Linux out of the box it simply isn't worth the bad customer experiences and the amount of returns. Sorry-No Sale.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Oh look you became a Windows dick.
Hardware support on Linux is quite nearly flawless and often better than Windows.
Your comment on Lexmark printers is the only case I've seen where a product group consistently doesnt have support.
I can take any brand name laptop today, put Linux on it and everything will work.
Typed on a new Inspiron 1525. with fully working multimedia keys, wifi, bluetooth, cpu frequency setting, acpi functions and graphics.
Hell even Fn + Up/Down changes the screen brightness as can KDE 4's PowerDevil.
5 years ago you couldnt do that. In 5 more years where do you think Linux will be?
Its not perfect, but if your maintaining someone's computer and they dont require Windows then Linux will definitely make your life easier.
If your managing a large group of computers its also better there.
For a granny who just bought a computer and doesnt know any tech people? Probably not the best yet but nor is Windows if it wasnt preinstalled.
Nothing is free.
Over my lifetime I have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on computers - not counting my time. I'm not sure if it makes up for my "increased productivity". But I certainly had fun doing it, and am somewhat of a computer "expert" thanks to my almost 30 years of experience from playing around with hardware and knowing which part of which chip does what, to programming software in anything from assembler to perl.
However (apart from the odd Ubuntu updates which tend to break things like sound drivers) linux systems are far more stable, once they are set up. And they are FAR easier to set up than 2006, and the trend towards ease of installation (since maintenance is minimal) continues.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
How am I being a "Windows Dick" when I simply stated why the home consumer can't use Linux? This is just the same as the "LOL Luser...Winblowz" crap. Let us say for the sake of argument that you are right and Linux has better hardware support. You yourself admit that a printer that I am will to bet is holding more than 85% of the home market and here is over 95% of the market doesn't work AT ALL. Now what do you think the Windows convert is going to think about Linux when their printer doesn't work? He/she is going to think it is crap because their printer worked before and now it don't. I know because that is EXACTLY what I got when I tried to sell Linux desktops.
So until Lexmarks is supported or they cease being the #1 manufacturer of home printers(hold on to that dream pal) then ALL I get for trying to sell Linux machines is pissed off customers. Because I don't have the luxury of telling them "LOL...Get another printer Luser..LOL Winblowz" like apparently you do. I like having a job.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Your saying that Lexmark has 95% of the printer market?
Your delusional. I dont know what else to say.
Just for arguments sake I just checked my local computer store (in Australia).
They have 6 Canons, 5 Epson, 9 HP and 3 Lexmark inkjet printers.
In multifunction devices there are 5 Brothers, 14 Canons, 4 Epson, 11 HP, 7 Samsung and a whopping 2 Lexmark.
Over here at least, Lexmark is quite small.
Also notice that all the other brands have Linux support? I know the Canons do, HP has brilliant drivers, and I just checked Epson and Brother and they both have support.
Citing a single example of a company who is not terribly big is not a valid argument.
Please read the post before responding. I said HERE Lexmark has 95% of the market. here as in where i am at, the USA. Here the stores are the opposite. here we have 4 Lexmarks and 2 HP for under $150. And not a single HP all in one for less than $85, whereas $40 gets you a nice all in one Lexmark with 25 sheets of color photo paper and 100 sheets or standard paper.
So while I have no clue what is big is AUS, I have no clue as what is big in RUS either. Doesn't really matter to this discussion. here in the USA Lexmark is VERY popular with consumers and for a good reason: They print and scan nicely and can be had for under $40. But I have also had problems with capture cards, wireless chipsets, those funky HDMI add ons that ASUS uses on some model motherboards, etc. But that really isn't the point. The point is Linux big selling point is you don't have to throw your stuff away like with Apple, but as I pointed out here in the US the consumer DOES have to throw their stuff out to switch. So unless some white box manufacturer tries to make a "hip" version of Linux that they can upsell like Apple does Mac it just ain't going to fly.
I mean, lets be honest here: guys here on Slashdot and all around the net has been saying Linux is ready for the desktop and has been for 5 years. yet your marketshare is...what? 4%, maybe? And the Netbook, which was practically made for Linux is now looking at the XP version outselling the Linux versions by something like 5 to 1. Why? Could it be that the consumers have tried it and don't like it? Maybe that is why the return rate on the Linux machines was so much higher? Or even in places like Walmart where low price is king they won't sell Linux desktops or laptops on the shelves? It really isn't a conspiracy, it isn't the big bad MSFT throwing billions at the Walmarts and little mom&pop shops of the world not to sell it, it is simply this:
They HAVE tried selling it, the customers didn't WANT it, and therefor they no longer carry it. Simple supply and demand-nothing more. Or should guys like me and store like Walmart be forced to carry machines that don't sell and are returned 400% more than the others if they do? But I say let the market decide. We aren't communists here, right? If Linux is good enough for the home users then the lower price will give it momentum and the market will cause it to rise to the top. But I'm willing to bet my last nickel we'll be having the same conversation in 5 years and we'll be reading about how 2015 will be the "year of the Linux desktop". Because Linux simply isn't built for home users. It is a server OS with WAY too much CLI for home users. And the shops are simply giving the users what they want and will pay money for, and that is Windows and Apple Macs. I honestly don't see Linux ever reaching even Apple's level of marketshare with consumers. It just isn't really made for them like OSX and Windows are.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
We are you making up bullshit about Lexmark? Hp is and has been the best selling printer manufacturer for awhile now.
This is the current breakdown on Newegg.
Hewlett-Packard (80)
Canon USA, Inc. (54)
Lexmark (35)
Brother (21)
Epson America (20)
Ricoh (6)
G7 Productivity Systems(2)
Kodak(1)
Panasonic(1)
PENTAX(3)
Planon(2)
And thats just home inkjets.