Slashdot Mirror


Good Robot Projects For K-5?

bugs2squash writes "Some of the parents of kids at my son's elementary school would like to set up a robotics club for the children. I see that Lego has a new line of robotics bricks called wedo (PDF) and that seems to be the path of least resistance to doing something. But I wanted to ask: What experience do all y'all have of running a robotics club for this age group (5 thru 10 years old) and what factors made it a success (or failure)? Did you use a commercial kit of parts or brew something from scratch? What kind of projects work well with kids this age? I was thinking maybe making robot flowers (yes, I know they'd all rather build robotic sharks with lasers)." (Here's another page about Wedo.)

136 comments

  1. Sharks with Lasers? Feh by R2.0 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    10 year old kids weren't even born when that movie was released.

    Now, Transformers on the other hand has had a lot of influence.

    --
    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    1. Re:Sharks with Lasers? Feh by yo303 · · Score: 2, Funny

      10 year old kids weren't even born when that movie was released. Now, Transformers on the other hand has had a lot of influence.

      Meh. Those kids weren't even remotely planned when the original Transformer cartoons came out. Oh, does that make me sound old?

    2. Re:Sharks with Lasers? Feh by darkvizier · · Score: 1

      Meh. Those kids weren't even remotely planned when the original Transformer cartoons came out.

      If they're like most kids I know, they weren't planned at all!

  2. Too young by captaindomon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think that age group is too young to build robots on any informative level. I'm sorry, but they just won't "get it". Instead, why don't you buy some working robotic toys and let the kids program them to repeat an action, maybe, or just play with them? Maybe stage a battle with robotic dinosaurs or something? That would be way better for a five year old than actually building a working system.

    --
    Just because I can hook a shark from a boat, I do no offer to wrestle it in the water.
    1. Re:Too young by R2.0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't think you quite understand the mind of some young boys. R3.0 has been trying to build Transformers and other devices out of sticks and soda cans, and he's been doing that since he was 4 or 5.

      In some kids, the desire to control is far less insistent than the drive to create. (And dismantle/destroy, but that's a topic for another post.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    2. Re:Too young by VeNoM0619 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think that age group is too young to build robots on any informative level. I'm sorry, but they just won't "get it".

      Just because the No Child Left Behind Act has you underestimating education, doesn't mean anyone is too young to indulge in technology.

      Hell, 5-10? I'm sure they already have a decent applications/software background (surfing the web, running programs/games on the computer). Seeing how the linked PDF looked interesting, yet elegantly simple enough for a child (ok, so advertising may not speak truth), I would say it's worth a chance to teach. What's the worst that can happen if it goes over their heads? 1 student learns while 25 don't?

      --
      Disclaimer: I am not god.
      We may not be created equal
      But we can be treated equal.
    3. Re:Too young by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I can't find the story now. But there's a story about the old Canadian wilderness. A guy took his 12 year old son over the mountains to setup a new homestead. They built a temporary house and before the winter the father left the son and returned back to the rest of the family.

      The son was there in the spring when the dad brought the rest of the family. Granted 5th grade is only 10-11, but a 12 year old than managed to hunt, clean, and survive in the Canadian wilderness a hundred years ago.

      Stop treating kids like precious little snow flakes. Yes they need some guidance but they're a hell of a lot more capable than people give them credit for. I was building Capsela since I could walk and my parents swear that's why I became an engineer. A very basic programming language would have rocked.

      When I was in 5th grade our school had a Commodore 64 and an Mac LCII. I would flip through the manual and set different color schemes on the Commodore (First time I was accused of "Hacking" by a teacher too....) and I figured out quite a bit on the LCII. (Including the plain text file that it stored MathBlaster scores in ;) ).

    4. Re:Too young by MozeeToby · · Score: 3, Informative

      Lego Mindstorms could work. At least then the kids get to build something, including placing of motors and sensors, then program them using a simple flow chart style language. There's even an almost but not quite C language that they also support for the over achievers (or yourself to do demo's with).

      If nothing else just let the Kindergartners and 1st graders build with the Lego's, add in the motors (locked full speed in one direction) for the 2st and 3nd graders, the flowchart programming for the 4th graders, and the sensors for the 5th graders. It's possible to get into some relatively advanced behavior such as line following, maze solving, and light searching with the default sensors and flowchart languange that is provided with the educational kits.

    5. Re:Too young by Em+Emalb · · Score: 1

      At that age, all I wanted to do was go outside and play.

      For what it's worth, I agree with you. Of course, in my day GI Joe's were a foot tall and my Tonka truck was made out of metal.

      --
      Sent from your iPad.
    6. Re:Too young by geekoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your wrong.
      I coach FLL (http://www.usfirst.org/) and see 5 year olds get it.
      Once taught basic programming techniques and how to use the IDE(an hour to do both) they're off and going with only a little guidance. Usually when they get stuck no a part I''ll help the break the problem down.
      "Hmm you need it to wait? maybe there is a wait od sleep instruction?"
      Then they look and find it. after a couple of those they start looking to see if they can find an answer before getting stuck.

      Kids are fucking smart...really really smart. They are way under utilized in our society.
      You will never be smarter then when you are a kids..more knowledgeable, but never smarter.

      "Instead, why don't you buy some working robotic toys and let the kids program them to repeat an action, maybe, or just play with them?"

      Becasue:
      A) they get bored with that in about 90 seconds.
      B) Just becasue kids build robots doesn't mean they don't also play with toys.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    7. Re:Too young by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Combine them. Have the kids build turtle kits and program them to draw. They're easy to build (two drive motors and one pen motor), easy to program (left speed, right speed, pen up or down), and produce immediate results that the kids can see.

      In all seriousness, this was one of my first exposures to robotics and programming. It's still a fantastic start.

    8. Re:Too young by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It depends... Children go through distinct mental phases where their capacity to analyze things is very different from other stages. Most of these children will still be in the pre-operational stage where they can only follow short chains of cause-effect. The older ones (changes at ~7) will be in the concrete operation stage where they can follow cause-effect chains but can't understand abstract things like `a pointer to a function that returns an array of...' so you should avoid certain things with them.

      Personally, I'd give premade robots with a simple programing language (if statements, for loops and maybe functions).

      Please note that some children go through these stages faster than other. This page seems to cover the topic decently.

    9. Re:Too young by Interested+Guy · · Score: 1

      I have been watching my 5 year old play with MIT's "Scratch", and I would disagree.

      He doesn't understand everything, but he knows that he can modify certain instructions and get different results.

      It takes some time for him to get the whole cause and effect, but he starts to get it over time. And he has a lot of fun tinkering.

    10. Re:Too young by TubeSteak · · Score: 2, Funny

      Kids are fucking smart...really really smart. They are way under utilized in our society.

      I know man, ever since those child labor laws were passed in 1938, business has just been terrible!

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    11. Re:Too young by hoggoth · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sign of the Beaver.

      My 8 year old is reading it right now. He loves it.

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    12. Re:Too young by geekoid · · Score: 1

      heh!

      I, of course, didn't mean as labor.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    13. Re:Too young by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If there's one thing that makes me smile every time I read it, it's someone starting a rebuttal with "Your wrong".

    14. Re:Too young by aphyr · · Score: 1

      I started programming modula-2 in K-5, and had there been a way to combine that with my lego collection, I would have been all over it! I think it's a safe bet that a decent-sized elementary school will have a few kids who can enjoy building and programming their own robots. :)

    15. Re:Too young by plover · · Score: 3, Informative

      I think that age group is too young to build robots on any informative level. I'm sorry, but they just won't "get it".

      You'd be surprised. When my son was in Cub Scouts (grades 2-5) we had them do this kind of stuff all the time.

      Here's a great project that's well within the age range of these kids: Bristlebots! Provide them with all the technical parts: motors, double sided tape, batteries, wires, solder, tools, and safety equipment, everything except for the toothbrush. Give them at least a week's notice to bring in a toothbrush, (provide printed flyers explaining the project) and they'll go home and beg mom or dad to help them find them an old toothbrush they can destroy. Of course you'll need some extras on hand so nobody is left out. But make sure they have plenty of notice. The anticipation is a huge part of the experience.

      The flyers serve several purposes: they build excitement, they inform the parents about days and activities, they ask parents to help scrounge up a toothbrush, they can serve as the "permission slip" to use the tools under supervision, and depending on financial circumstances, you can ask parents to pay the cost of the parts. You need to be clear that parts will be provided for all the kids regardless of donations, so as not to leave anyone out. But really, the first hit on the Goog just found pager motors for $1.29, so parts costs should be dirt cheap. Even in a tough situation with a lot of underprivileged kids, you can probably find a couple people willing to donate $20 or so.

      On build day, use the older kids to perform the tougher tasks. The 3rd and 4th graders are more than capable of sawing off the toothbrush handles with a hacksaw (provide a vise.) If you have a 5th grader in the group, they might even be capable of soldering, but if not you could still use one as a "third hand" to apply the solder. (Or you can pre-solder the wires yourself before Robot Day.) Direct supervision and proper safety equipment is required, of course, but kids LOVE to use "dangerous" tools. It's a great opportunity to educate them on safety, and there's very little chance of serious injury.

      If you print up assembly directions, be sure you test them yourself before build day. Have a pre-made bristlebot to show the kids what they're making.

      For the youngest kids, if you can find a way to decorate them (provide them with stickers or whatever) then they get to participate too. There's a tremendous value in getting the kids to do the assembly. It might be slightly beyond the 5-6 year olds (it's definitely kid dependent,) but even the 7-year olds are likely to be able to accomplish it. And the younger kids may just have fun playing with them, but it's still participation.

      Be sure to follow up the build event with some kind of organized contest where the kids can enter their robots. It's best to run it the same day so that kids don't have a chance to lose or break their robots or wear out their batteries.

      If you operate the bristlebots on a horizontal dry-erase board as the article pictures, you could try having them erase marker lines, or race from one end to the other, or out of a circle, or follow a simple drawn track. Pre-print some award certificates for things like "Robot with the Cleanest Teeth" and a handful of other cheesy awards, and hand them out for things like "the kid who picked the highest number."

      Trust me -- if you can organize this little bit, the kids will love it and the parents will beg you to do it again next year.

      --
      John
    16. Re:Too young by jon_adair · · Score: 1

      I did robots for elementary age kids for 3 summers now. Now, I only have them for one week of 2 hours a day, so an ongoing thing run as an after school program might work better, but based on my experience, I think it would be rather painful.

      Right up front you need to understand that there's a big difference between working with your kid or your kid and their 2-3 friends and working with a room full of kids that don't really know you. Kids no longer have built-in respect for adults. They'll run right over you and treat you like a substitute teacher. It takes a lot of work to get and maintain control of a group of elementary age kids, especially around exciting stuff like robots. Parents being there is a mixed bag of stuff. Some are great and a few will make you nuts.

      I've tried Lego Mindstorms and even just taking the top 2-3 kids and setting them up with a (original not NXT) Mindstorms kit didn't work. They didn't have the patience to follow build instructions for more than 15 minutes. They cobbled together some "stick a wheel on a motor" platforms and crashed them into each other. That's about as far as I could get them in 2 days so I've never gone back to Mindstorms in that group. I would never try Mindstorms with the large group of all the kids in our camp, unless we planned on the kits being "expendable". Too many pieces go missing.

      I've tried Vex and that's worked somewhat well. I have seveal of the original Vex kits and we've only used them in radio-control mode. We've done mostly robo "sports" like soccer, obstacle courses, and "just smash into each other". Each kit doesn't come with enough to build much of an arm, but you can make a single servo flipper / weapon with something like a cardboard scoop. Or put a kill button on top and let them smack each other's kill button. I haven't had elementary kids building anything with Vex parts, but they did do cardboard work like scoops and "armor". The Vex kits held up well. One even got squashed hard by a table and I was able to hammer all the bent metal back mostly to the original shape.

      There is a newer, significantly cheaper Vex kit that's mostly plastic and comes with a gripper arm and a wireless camera. If I were to go shopping now, that's what I'd try.

      I've also tried teaching anything resembling programming, algorithms, etc. and have made no progress. I tried some activities from "Computer Science Unplugged", an ebook sold online. It's got hands-on activities for kids like having them bubble sort themselves. It looks neat, but in practice I had a real control problem when I tried it. It might work better in a more controlled, longer-term setting, like a classroom.

      We also tried some scratch-built bots using cheap motors and eventually salvaged toys, but those never worked that well. If you don't have a geared-down motor there isn't much you can do. You can set up motors to just spin the shafts as the wheels so that slows them down, but you still basically have a dumb, fast bug that just runs. Adding logic and sensors to it is possible, but pretty far beyond anything I've been able to teach to kids that age.

      We did watch the "Great Robot Race" DARPA challenge video from Nova. Two years in a row it kept the kids fairly captivated if I split it into 15 minute segments and we discussed it in between.

      For year two, one of the activities we did was "Robot Arena 2", a PC game version BattleBots. You can do construction, including picking different weapons, wheels, motors, etc. It was a rough start, but once we had a few kids into it, it was a real winner. It runs on pretty old PCs and is only $20 if you can find it. Unfortunately we could never get network play working reliably.

      Now, through all of this, I've had my own elementary-age daughter working on both Mindstorms and Vex. She's been perfectly capable of building stuff with Vex, following the Mindstorms builds, and understanding the algorithms for the built-in Mindstorms programs. I also know elementary age kids do First Lego League. So I know elementary-a

    17. Re:Too young by mustafap · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >but can't understand abstract things like `a pointer to a function that returns an array of...'

      Most of the engineers I work with don't understand that either.

      --
      Open Source Drum Kit, LPLC deve board - mjhdesigns.com
    18. Re:Too young by Genda · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but you're mistaken. By the time I was 10, I was reading college level texts on biology, astronomy, geology, and paleontology. I was experimenting with microscopes, chemistry sets, and I would have taken prisoners to have had a real robotic toy. You should never presume the children can't display real genius.

    19. Re:Too young by lazy_playboy · · Score: 1

      I was doing LOGO robotics from 7 years old. You're talking shit.

    20. Re:Too young by lazy_playboy · · Score: 1

      Merely short for, 'Your statement is wrong'. ;-)

    21. Re:Too young by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      bzzzzt, try again.

      Check out the First organization's Lego League. (FLL) I helped coach a team of 9 and 10 year olds last fall. FLL challenges are not trivial. scoring is typically in three domains: robotics, a presentation and teamwork. The team I worked with rocked on robotics/programming (they really got the idea that modular programming is good -- only once do you need to work out how many degrees of motor rotation it takes to move a centimeter), was fair on presentation, and abysmal at teamwork. The point is kids under 10 can build a line-following robot with actuated attachments and program the whole thing in less than 30 hours from scratch.

      Granted there is a difference between 9,10 and 5,6. But there are younger siblings hanging around the FLL team who make real contributions.

      Don't count kids out.

    22. Re:Too young by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I sorry sir kids will not have the joy of building things, the creativity that go with it and open mind that accompany the first two. I personally feel sorry for you.

    23. Re:Too young by Puls4r · · Score: 1

      You are ENTIRELY wrong. I'd suggest investigating FIRST Lego-League (www.usfirst.org). My children have been participating on teams since they were 3. From FIRST Lego, they can upgrade to FLC, or Vex, and from there to FIRST Robotics. It's an incredible progression that is worth 10x of what they will get out of most of their actual school classes.

    24. Re:Too young by Chelloveck · · Score: 1

      I think I'd second this. I've been a Cub Scout leader with kids in this same age group, and from my experience they don't have a lot of patience with purely academic exercises like programming. Especially not when they're in a group! They want to see results immediately.

      Turtle bots should be a good solution. They're simple to build and easy to program. And they produce a tangible result -- ink on paper. When they start to get tired of making simple designs give the bots different colored pens and have the kids program them to work together to make a multi-colored drawing. (A good but tricky project might be a waving American flag. Have one or two bots making the stripes, another making the star field. Try it one bot at a time, then see if they can get it so all the bots are working at once without bumping into each other.)

      Lego sounds like a good idea, but these kids are really much too young for the Lego robotics kits. They take a good deal of patience, both in building and in programming. Some kids will take to it early, but I really wouldn't start a group of random kids on it until they were around 12 years old.

      --
      Chelloveck
      I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    25. Re:Too young by foniksonik · · Score: 1

      I was very busy at 5 - 8 building Transformers out of anything I could get my hands on. Legos at first, then Matboard, tape, glue, then balsa wood with servos and hobby remotes... I built cars and planes too... and hot air balloons and rubber band powered machines with gears and springs to enhance/distribute the power.

      --
      A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
    26. Re:Too young by Skitt+1 · · Score: 1

      You're

    27. Re:Too young by Jeffrey_Walsh+VA · · Score: 1

      Kind of like "My bad."

    28. Re:Too young by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I call BS. I remember breaking out of crib, purposefully, at 3 or 4 years of age. I knew that IF i kept turning the bars of the crib THEN I could get out. I know I'm rare to have memories that far back; or so my family tell me, but I don't think I'm wrong in knowing that as young as 3 or 4 they know "If I cry THEN my mother will [feed me/change me/pick me up/play with me]."

      Such Pavlavian (sp?) response shows understanding of cause and effect.

      Children begin learn music at ages 4 and 5, and if you don't start that yearly then some places consider you "a late starter" and some people in the field may dismiss your potential at all. I can hear you say "That's just music, that doesn't require higher level thought or even math" ... But, studies have found that there isn't a "music center" in the brain; but in fact many small cores that are active while playing music, including (but not limited to):

      • language center - reading musicsymbols and translating
      • math center - rhythm and counting at the very least
      • auditory core - pitch correction

      The article I'm recalling was from somewhere between 1999 and 2001 or so (when I was a music education major, before switching to computer science).

      In any case, never underestimate the young mind; it will constantly surprise you.

      Back to the original question:
      I'd suggest Parallax's BOE-Bot or if that proves to advanced Parallax's Scribbler.
      http://www.parallax.com

    29. Re:Too young by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree. I have a couple of nieces and nephews in this age group. I also have a few robots and every time my nieces and nephews stop over for a visit they want to play with the robots. One bot is an iRobot vacuum and the others are Lego Mindstorms. They enjoy all of the bots. WIth the Legos they get to create whatever they want to.

    30. Re:Too young by white_owl · · Score: 1

      We (DANEnet) did several robotics groups in mandatory summer school a couple of years ago. We started kids off with Robosapiens. That is a controller based pre built robot. This was good for 1-2 sessions. Then we moved them onto the great Robodance program (free software to do visual programming on a pc using a USB wireless remote to control the Robosapiens). Another couple of sessions. Finally we went to Lego Robotics based program.

      We lost some kids at each step. The step to Lego Robotics was particularly hard for these kids. One of the best groups was a mix of bilingual and solely Spanish speaking kids. Shades of the undocumented high school students that won a national college robotics competition http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.04/robot.html

    31. Re:Too young by wmbetts · · Score: 1

      I have to agree with you. My mother bought my a computer a computer (486 sx/25) when I was in the 3rd grade and I nearly gave her a heart attack when I had it in pieces and installed the new 9600 baud modem she had bought me. I also ran a BBS in the 4th grade. People under estimate the intelligence of children.

      --
      "Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me". - stolen from Dan C alt.os.linux.slackware
  3. Range of students. by Albio · · Score: 5, Insightful

    5 year olds and 10 year olds can be quite different. It would not be a good idea to treat all of these kids as the same.

    1. Re:Range of students. by Em+Emalb · · Score: 1

      I love that this got modded "informative". No offense intended to Albio intended, but seriously...

      --
      Sent from your iPad.
    2. Re:Range of students. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quick! Mods! Seize the moment to overload Em Emalb with irony by modding his comment informative.

    3. Re:Range of students. by TheLogicMan · · Score: 1

      I would agree. If you are targeting schools, then activities need to be targeted at specific age groups, but also, they need to be attractive to a range of abilities and work with variable school equipment levels. A tricky balance as activities need to be inclusive - boys/girls, academically good/academically poor. I am working on a project called Robokid that is developing robot activities for the 9 to 11 year age group and we have struggled with many of these issues.

  4. Make a robotic rabbit... by ExploHD · · Score: 1

    with big, nasty, pointy teeth!

    1. Re:Make a robotic rabbit... by Facetious · · Score: 1

      What's it going to do? Nibble me bum?

      --
      Let us not become the evil that we deplore.
  5. Motarized Constructs. by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    I remember being that age and working with motorized constructs.
    They were great. Different belts on different size flywheels creating different speeds. Connecting a bar to a hinge and part of the fly wheel allows you to make simple robots with arms that go up and down.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  6. Lego is probably the way to go. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

    Having done some robotics(FIRST) in highschool, I'd be leery of trying to make it work with "real" parts. We had access to a university machine shop and something resembling an actual budget, and fabricating/buying/waiting for/modifying parts consumed an inordinate amount of time and effort. All of those things are useful learning experiences, particularly for people who want to go into engineering; but if you have limited time, money, or children's attention span, you'll burn more time on logistics then you will on learning.

    Compared to any source of machine parts that doesn't involve very high levels of ingenuity and scrounging Lego is pretty cheap, and you can do pretty sophisticated stuff with it.

    1. Re:Lego is probably the way to go. by JCSoRocks · · Score: 1

      Yes you can. I saw a pretty impressive little Lego based machine on YouTube that sorted gumballs by color. I think that's something kids would have fun with. Candy and Robots - can't beat that!

      --
      You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
  7. FIRST JLL by spinkham · · Score: 4, Informative

    FIRST junior Lego league is designed for this age group, and though I haven't been involved at that age level, I know the middle school and high school programs are good, and the elementary school version looks age appropriate.

    The FIRST organization is definitely an outstanding model of teaching kids what is is that programmers and engineers do in a way that is exciting and relevant to each age group. I highly recommend checking them out.

    http://www.usfirst.org/firstlegoleague/community/jfll/welcome.html

    --
    Blessed are the pessimists, for they have made backups.
    1. Re:FIRST JLL by dubious+elise · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Great call on FIRST - I was involved in their high school program for three years and I started a regular FLL program at my K-8 grade school. We had to start including younger students (3rd and 4th grade) than our 5th and 6th graders in the regular program because they were solving the proposed problems too quickly and efficiently. Even if you do not know what to do with the kits or how to write a line of code, FIRST and LEGO provide excellent resources, the latter of which are not limited to the annual games that FIRST develops.

    2. Re:FIRST JLL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good luck with FIRST, I tried to get my 12yr old in, but after numerous phone calls and emails to FIRST personnel I got nowhere and gave up. So I just bought the mindstorm kit myself and a few books and we're building stuff together.

    3. Re:FIRST JLL by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      I'll bet your kid likes that better than working with the group anyway ;)

    4. Re:FIRST JLL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would agree, but the judges at a lot of the events clearly have no idea of what engineering involves. A few years ago, I saw an elegant device designed to do no more than what was required. It had to be modified each round to fit the different starting position, but it gave the operator very fine control after the initial modification.

      The judges said that it involved no engineering and awarded it third place despite the fact that the team running it managed to score the highest. For that matter, the winner had several parts break during the competition. The team with the more elegant device had some of their initial parts spare, which they used to help the other team repair their device. The more elegant device never broke.

    5. Re:FIRST JLL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have to agree. I did a judging recently of middle and high school competition and one of the things we graded was teamwork. Several of the teams (these are 6 - 8th graders) "mentored" a junior team.

      It's worth a look

    6. Re:FIRST JLL by kyuubi42 · · Score: 1

      that would be a problem with you local team. not the organization.

    7. Re:FIRST JLL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All it takes is a couple friends, a couple hundred dollars, and that's it.. you register online..

      That's how my dad got me into FLL oh so many years ago.

  8. Robots? by KuNgFo0 · · Score: 2

    Before tackling something as complex as a "robots" how about basic things like teaching them about electricity and magnetism. Let them build electric motors, circuits that light up LEDs, and don't forget mechanical concepts like gears, pulleys and levers. Think fundamental physics-type experiments.

    1. Re:Robots? by R2.0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You have it backwards - kids learn about "electric motors, circuits that light up LEDs, gears, pulleys and levers" by building things that use them. Then, While they are building something cool, you teach them the principles behind it.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
  9. Robotix by AnotherAnonymousUser · · Score: 3, Informative

    I don't know if they even make them any more, but I always had Robotix when I was a kid - they use a hex shaped connector and were a lot bigger and sturdier than Legos, but you could use them to build robots literally as tall as you were. The sets came with motors that connected to a battery pack and to a control panel that you could use from several feet away. I always had a lot of fun building things from the ground up using the raw materials and integrating the motors into the structures to give mobility to the construct, or to enable it to perform some kind of task. Like Legos, the sets come with guide books, but I always found that, even at that age, I could come up with new and better ways to build the thing they had pictured than the instructions gave. Link to the first site that demos it: http://www.roboticsandthings.com/

    1. Re:Robotix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Man, Robotix. I wounded myself more than a few times trying to get those darned pieces apart.

  10. Perp-a-tron by Tx · · Score: 2, Funny

    Whenever I think about kids and robots I can't help but think about Perp-a-tron. Not sure if a child molesting robot is a suitable project for the kids, but it'll put them ahead of the game.

    --
    Oh no... it's the future.
    1. Re:Perp-a-tron by Em+Emalb · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't forget your robot insurance, especially if the little ones are going to be around their grandparents much...

      http://www.hulu.com/watch/2340/saturday-night-live-old-glory

      --
      Sent from your iPad.
  11. First Lego League by phunster · · Score: 2, Informative

    There is a First Lego League with particapation starting at 6 years old I think this might fit your bill. I've been hearing great things about it.

    The URL is: http://www.usfirst.org/firstlegoleague/community/homepage.html

    Good Luck

  12. I started in grade 2 with lego by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I first learned to program with Lego Logo for the Apple IIe when I was in 2nd grade, and the experience was priceless. I highly recommend a lego solution because it makes the hardware easy.

    Some great examples of projects are robot cars that follow a line on the ground (use an optical sensor to trace it), item counting conveyor belt, ping-pong ball pitching machine, and block sorting machine (an evolution of the conveyor belt with counter, it diverts blocks to different bins based on length.

    The new lego kits have GUI programming interfaces, but I was able to do everything in logo as a kid, so don't assume you have to dumb things down as much as you might expect.

  13. Homebrew by jd · · Score: 1

    When I was in that age range, schools were building eggmobiles (machines that can carry raw eggs over an obstacle course at high speed) and competing in the Granada Power Game (the contest I entered involved dropping a coin exactly half-way along a track, again at high speed).

    Children not much older were competing quite successfully at contests such as the Micromouse tournament.

    This is not to say that kids these days would be satisfied with such problems today, but this would seem a logical starting point as we know that it is possible for extremely young kids to really understand the mechanics and to really construct such devices with minimal outside help.

    The question is, how to upgrade these sorts of problems to handle the expectations modern kids place on themselves, and the much more advanced technology required to keep them interested.

    One possible starting point is to use K'Nex or Lego Mindstorms to produce a skeletal robot which the kids can then add to. The problem with this is that then the real logic part, the part they need to really solve, is the part that is solved for them.

    Another option is to use the basic concept of the original problems, using the computer to provide steering rather than motive power. This keeps the mechanics simple enough for the kids, but allows for some very sophisticated logic behind the steering.

    (For example, you could have a simple eggmobile that must avoid barriers with lights on top, using light-sensitive diodes and a simple programmable board for the control system.)

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    1. Re:Homebrew by archshade · · Score: 1

      How much time do you have. How much money do you have. What kind of resources do you already.

      If you have time and have the stuff to do it I'd go homebrew and make some control boards (based around PICs) and may be some simple chassis (possible with two motors and a dolly wheel) and a board to control this (two H-bridge motor drivers and a couple of micro switches). Put some headers in so you can connect up the boards. That way if you find one or two students who get it you can explain the in more detail about whats going on. For others you could help set up simple systems.

      If you don't have the set up time or resources to do this the Lego looks good. I like the idea of being able to control whats going on.

      --
      Most Damage is done by people who are AWAKE
    2. Re:Homebrew by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "The problem with this is that then the real logic part, the part they need to really solve, is the part that is solved for them."

      What do you mean?
      the MindStorm competition stuff still requires logic programming to do anything. And the competition usually involves many tasks that require different programs to complete.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  14. Souped up Real Dolls by tacarat · · Score: 1

    Then they can share funding with the sex ed classes.

    --
    "Common sense will be the death of us all"
  15. I'll bet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ... when you were a kid you had a lot of friends.

    My favourite toys when I was age 5-10 were capsela, construx, and Jr. Radio kits. I only wish shows like Battlebots were around to further pique my interest.

    Anything you can do to get your kid into higher-level thinking and problem solving (like elementary computer programming and robotics) will give them a huge leg-up in the education system. Any way you can make it fun for them will help them understand more.

    1. Re:I'll bet by v1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My favourite toys when I was age 5-10 were capsela, construx, and Jr. Radio kits

      definitely capsela for them. Motor, switch, gears, easy to put together. I made a "robot" for a ~5th grade "build a robot" project our class had, and the class went wild over it. Mine was definitely the only one with moving parts. The rest were cutout painted cereal boxes etc.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
  16. Check out PicoCricket by MojoRilla · · Score: 1

    I would suggest checking out PicoCricket. It is more geared towards artistic expression rather than building robots, but has light sensors, sound sensors, touch sensors, displays, etc.

  17. MacGyver the hell out of it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just give them a bunch of old CD-ROM drives, some AA batteries, and the MacGyver DVD box set.

  18. Botball by teachinggeek · · Score: 1

    You might want to look up botball. It will probably be more appropriate for your fifth graders. It gives them a good challenge, and most students were somewhat successful. We do robots that follow lines using a light sensor and sumo robots, but this is in the high school level, rather than K-5. You might try making the basic frame for the robot out of legos and letting them modify it rather than designing the entire robot.

  19. Re:Seriously?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're either a very intolerant person or you're a hypocrite, which is it? Are you likewise offended by other forms of vernacular, such as 'sho nuff', 'oy veigh', 'n00b', etc? Either way, you're definitely a troll in my book.

  20. Re:Seriously?! by R2.0 · · Score: 1

    Lighten up, Francis - using spelling and sentence structure to reflect the way a certain person speaks is an old, old literary technique. As for speaking like that, it's called a dialect, and if you believe you speak without using a dialect you are probably wrong.

    --
    "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
  21. parallax by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Parallax makes a couple simple little kits for about that age range. They have wheels and can roll around with IR sensors, leds, and buttons. That would probably give them a good feel for how all the different elements connect and interact with each other.

  22. For quality parts get Fischer Technik. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2, Informative

    Fischer Technik has by far the highest quality parts for constructing this kind of thing... but at a cost. They are not cheap. On the other hand, they are used by children to make models and by Universities to demonstrate & prototype industrial robots. It all depends on where you want to start and how much you want to spend.

  23. Labview plug by Ethanol-fueled · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Don't forget that Lego and your kid's creativity aren't the only winners here. According to the last, parenthetical link in the summary it's powered by LabView, which is something every technical person will see again and again in their lifetime.

    Its modular, graphical interface is a perfect compliment for Lego-style robot building(and is also invaluable for test and measurement automation).

    1. Re:Labview plug by v1 · · Score: 1

      oh don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE lego, but this is a question for robotics. Even back then I had a cothesbasket full of legos and I went with capsela for the moving parts and gears that you don't have with lego.

      --
      I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    2. Re:Labview plug by mechsoph · · Score: 1

      What are you, an NI shill? Dataflow programming models suck for all but a very small domain of problems, and those problems are pretty damn easy to solve in conventional languages.

  24. Re:did you just see that robot? by negRo_slim · · Score: 1

    Add a laser to that shark and now you got me interested...

    --
    On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
  25. WeDo probably only appropriate at young end by dbc · · Score: 3, Informative

    We (my 9 YO daughter and I) have NXT. I've see WeDo, it is probably more appropriate at the lower age ranges, since it is more limited. I know people that teach robotics using lego, although I haven't done it myself.

    First, philosophically, you have to decide if you want to go the "competition" (ie FIRST, Botball, etc) route, or more of an "educational constructionist" route. Personally, I think competitions set up a host of perverse incentives that work against true learning. Far better to set up "challenges", and let each kid (or team) see how far they can get. The learning is in the trying, not the winning.

    How much money do you have? Lego works well with teams of two. Can you afford one kit per two kids? Also you need to handle the logistics of how to store/secure half-built robots between sessions. And you will also need to get good at inventorying Lego. Exotic Lego parts have a way of disappearing... you might find yourself on BrickLink more than you want to be.

    NXT-G is not easy for kids to use, despite anything Lego tells you. Expect to spend some time on that.

    So, having said all those negative sounding things, I don't really know of a better alternative than NXT for your sitation.... and my daughter and I *do* have a heaping pile of non-Lego robots of various kinds.

    1. Re:WeDo probably only appropriate at young end by geekoid · · Score: 1

      I disagree.
      I ahve coachd LEGO teams with 10 members on the team.
      Any person with 2 braincells can organize the team into different tasks.

      You should look into it. There are many tasks in the competition, so programming can be broken up be task, and brainstorming a robot design works well in a large teams.
      Presentation involves all the kids, as well as the other parts that are judged.

      The kids learned a lot.
      It's cool to watch them get a couple of programing concepts into their head and watch them create a program to accomplish a specific task.
      Sponsors are easier to get becasue everyone has heard of LEGO.
      The path from LEGO bots to larger more powerful Bots is a very good one.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:WeDo probably only appropriate at young end by dbc · · Score: 1

      OK, I'm confused. What part of my comment are you disagreeing with? That WeDo is only appropriate at the low end of the age range? That Lego is a resonable choice to teach kids robotics, but that there are issues? Or that robotics competitions set up perverse incentives that get in the way of healthy learning?

  26. Lego NXT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I teach a Lego robotics class every Wednesday to 5th and 6th graders and an exceptional 2nd grader.

    The Lego NXT educational kits are THE way to go if you are serious about this.

    As a previous poster suggested... start them out with simple mechanical exercises using the kits before you give them motors and the brick... programing should be a reward for completing the fundamentals. The system also has good 3rd party support for extra types of sensors and other I/O solutions.

    You will have a hard time finding another system that will combine the versatility of lego and the massive user base and tons of online suggestions for novel projects.

    Save the FIRST robotics stuff for the really dedicated kids... ones who can secure a sponsor...($$$)

  27. Coincedentally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm working on something similar to this for my (undergrad) senior design project. My professor used a grant to make a bunch of custom-built robots using an ARM7 chip and some off-the-shelf parts, along with a simple C API for controlling the robots. He taught an intro CS course using these robots. Telling a robot to move around a room generally beats writing guess-the-number games in terms of student interest and interactivity.

    Last year, a few student projects were started to make the process of simulating and debugging these robots easier for students. Our goal this year is to integrate them into Code::Blocks. One of the projects uses an icon-based UI similar in some respects to the Lego Mindstorms UI, and is targeted to elementary students; it generates C code that can run on the robots directly from icon diagrams that students create. We're updating that to allow importing preexisting C code into a diagram.

    Ideally we'll be able to step through robot code, watch the robot move around on a , and track the program's execution in terms of the icon diagrams.

    1. Re:Coincedentally by mpthompson · · Score: 1

      Is there an on-line description of the icon-based UI you describe that was created to make the programming of Armbots easier? I would be interested in seeing approaches that other people have taken with such a project.

  28. I'm a LEGO robotics coach. by geekoid · · Score: 1

    The LEGO smart path is really the way to go.
    Global competitions, sponsors can be easy to get, And build robots out of LEGO pieces can be easy and versatile. Latter on in high school they move up into bigger bots. I have only coached 4-5th graders. Next year my daughter will do it for the 4th grade class and my son will be on the 6th grade class.
    Assuming the both show the same enthusiasm.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  29. whoops not smart - FLL by geekoid · · Score: 1

    First Lego league. Smart is a completly different project I am working on.
    My apologies.
    http://www.usfirst.org/firstlegoleague/community/homepage.html

    http://www.usfirst.org/

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  30. Re:Seriously?! by Hatta · · Score: 1

    Most languages have a second person plural pronoun. For example, "tu" and "vosotros" in spanish. English lacks this, for no good reason, and this limits it's expressive power. Since we don't have a second person plural pronoun, we invented one. If you don't like it, tough.

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  31. bore...ing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This post is lame.

    ... and just for the record: by "some parents" do you actual just mean "you"?

  32. For a gentle intro try "blinkybugs" by Ugarte · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is a really simple project, which can be found on Instructables, but one can also buy kits...

    www.blinkybug.com

    While it's a stretch to call them robots, they do interact in a way, and can help kids understand the basics of electricity and sensors. they antennae form a really simple spring switch, which triggers the blinking of their eyes (LEDs), and the body is a coin cell battery. I made some of these at a workshop at the Maker Faire a while ago.

  33. Sandlot by TheCastro · · Score: 1

    I for one; have seen the movie Sandlot, and like other my age used tinker toys and legos to try and do the same kind of stuff. Kids in the ages of 5-10 should be able to make some sort of "object" that performs a "function." But it might not be a robot. Giving them specific goals will help, like build a machine that can throw a ball, kids that age like structure.

  34. Re:Seriously?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes we did, and it's 'you'. 'You all' I can handle, but unless I decide to take a trip to redneck America I don't want to hear 'y'all' ever again.

  35. Check out Lynxmotion by Facegarden · · Score: 1

    I'm not affiliated with these guys or anything, I've just used some of their stuff before. I build a real walking hexapod when i was in 9th grade, which is pretty far beyond 5th grade, but they may have something simpler, i dunno.

    Actually, you may wanna look at the BOE bot, avaliable probably from parallax, but I'm not sure.

    Anyway, i just love Lynxmotion. Might be for an older crowd, but they are good.
    -Taylor

    --
    Worldwide Military budgets: $2100 billion. Worldwide Space Exploration budgets: $38 billion. Really, world? Really?
  36. Book recommendation... by DreamCoder · · Score: 1

    When my son was in 3rd grade, I bought the book: "Robot Building for Beginners", by David Cook. It was still too advanced for him to tackle alone, but we made a point of getting together for a couple hours each weekend and worked through the line-following robot project that the book describes. It took about two months to complete at that rate, but it was a blast and we both got alot out of it. He got to learn how to breadboard a circuit, cut/drill metal, control an electric motor, fry LEDs ;-), and assemble the final bot. And the circuitry itself was so simple that at the end he *really* understood how it worked. I really recommend this approach, if you've got the time and patience to work with your kid on it.

  37. Actually Flowers are Good Too by kandela · · Score: 1

    It's good to have a variety of different robotics projects. Hopefully then you can interest all the kids, not just those who would traditionally be drawn to robotics. As a bonus, those who are already interested in robotics might develop an interest in botany as well.

    These days robots have a wide variety of applications from industry to art and lots in between. I have actually seen robotic origami flowers in an art exhibition, they were pretty cool, I spent 30 minutes at that exhibit.

    Maybe I'm a little biased, I consider myself well rounded in my nerdishness, but I always think cross-pollination is good (no pun intended).

    --
    Conservation of angular momentum makes the world go round.
  38. Drawbots by jomegat · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Makezine ran an article last week on an interesting robot that looks appropriate for that age group.

    --

    In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they're not.

  39. For ages 7-11, keep things VERY simple by mcpublic · · Score: 1

    In grad school I studied and developed methods to make programming accessible to young children. At the time, the general consensus in the field was that before the ages of 11-14, children don't typically have the cognitive ability to write programs, even simple ones. Even though I am a professional programmer now, when I was introduced to BASIC at age 9, I definitely didn't "get it." When I got to 7th grade I did.

    Radia Perlman did some groundbreaking work in the 1970's to develop technology in the hope that 6-years-old could learn programming skills. Years later, Ken Kahn developed a game/programming environment called ToonTalk. From my personal experience and research, I don't think you can expect kids younger than 9 to build and program robots, but they can start playing with the physical and conceptual "building blocks."

    I see from LEGO's literature that WeDo is aimed at children 7-11 years old. Their approach is very sensible: Keep things very, very simple: One motor, one motion sensor, and one tilt sensor. RoboSoccer can wait until they are older.

    For further information

  40. LEGO Dacta by legoman666 · · Score: 1

    My brother and I went to a "class" thingy that used LEGO Dacta. Dacta was basically the precursor to Mindstorms, just less n00bified. You wrote the programs in actual code, not using LEGO's horrible GUI with blocks. Shortly after we completed the class two years in a row, LEGO released Mindstorms. I got it for Christmas that year and was very excited. That is, until I tried to program one of my bots. The stupidly-simple GUI for writing programs killed my interest in the whole thing.

    My brother and I made some pretty awesome models including a conveyor belt that sorted based on color, a temperature controlled green house, and a black and white autofeed scanner. The scanner was epic. It was so cool to see the picture we drew show up on the computer screen.

    After poking around, it looks like you can still buy the stuff: http://www.legoeducation.com/store/?global=usa

    1. Re:LEGO Dacta by geekoid · · Score: 1

      I love the gui. That style or programming interface could be used to write 90% of the application that get written.

      on the plus side, you can also use a myriad of other languages and IDEs to program them.

      I think you killed your interest, not the IDE because if you were interested, you would have found out how to load other programs.
      It's a great tool for learning fourth.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:LEGO Dacta by legoman666 · · Score: 1

      I don't know. I was in 4th and 5th grade when I did the Dacta class and was probably in 6th grade when I got Mindstorms. I got it right after it came out, I don't think any of the new IDEs that are available now were available right at the release.

      If I was still interested today, I'm sure I wouldn't be disappointed. In my Intro to ECECS (Electrical and Computer Engineering and Computer Science) Lab, we made a Mindstorms robot that had to traverse an obstacle course. The IDE we used still used "blocks" to represent functions, but it wasn't as simplistic as the LEGO IDE. I think you could even look at the code behind the blocks if you wanted to.

  41. roblocks by six11 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I feel obliged to mention my colleague's PhD thesis project from CMU, which he's now (I think) in the process of commercializing. It's called roblocks at the moment, and it's a modular robotic construction kit. Each block is an autonomous robot with onboard computation. Some blocks have sensors, others are actuators, and others can perform math. You can build different behaviors by connecting them together.

    Roblocks are incredibly cool. Some may go so far as to say they are rad.

    1. Re:roblocks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Roblocks are incredibly cool. Some may go so far as to say they are rad.

      But I think they have a marketing problem. The site just looks like a bunch of cubes. I believe you might be right about "rad" but the eye candy is "sad" (for young kids, anyway).

  42. Re:Seriously?! by Hatta · · Score: 1

    "You" is ambiguous. WHen you address a group of people as "you", each person has to decide whether the speaker meant "me" or "us". It's usually clear from context, but it's still awkward. "You all" is good, but "y'all" is easier to say. Do you also have a problem with "can't" and "they're"?

    --
    Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  43. correction needed by geekoid · · Score: 4, Informative

    "I don't think you quite understand the mind of some young boys. "

    Correction:
    "I don't think you quite understand the mind of some young children. "

    As a parent of a son and daughter, I see how that simple usage can make a young girl think girls don't do that sort of thing.
    Young girls want an try to identify with being a girl, and as such avoid things labels for boys.(visa versa as well)

    I encourage my daughter(and my son) in mathematics, science, engineering, chemistry(which she loves) etc and ahve seen her interest drop off as soon as some jack ass* adult says it's for 'boys'.

    Clearly this doesn't involved grammar~

    Fortunatly I talk with her often about it, and think she is starting to get it.

    I don't want to seem a pedantic ass, but It si very personal. And yes, I will correct an adult I'm talking to if any kids are nearby.

    *not that you are a jack ass, just that some of the people saying this are in a position of 'authority'.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:correction needed by R2.0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I can understand your frustration. I have a 13 year old daughter who is excellent at math and science, but gets those same signals. I try to support her as best I can (she got an A on her science fair project with my help).

      I was more referring to the teaching methods the GPP suggested. While I agree that both boys and girls can excel at math and sciences, the generally learn differently. I can't imagine the "start with the basics" program would work with my son, though it might have worked with my daughter.. Generally, boys and girls learn differently, and not acknowledging that hurts them both.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    2. Re:correction needed by will3477 · · Score: 1

      Thank you! My daughter used to love playing with toys traditionally associated with boys. A big part of this is that her mother used to frequently (6-7 days a week, 8+ hours) watch her male cousin who is only a year older. My daughter's ALWAYS had a girly girl component interested in jewelry, make-up, fashion etc, but her favorite toys were toys car/trucks, trains, playing in the dirt, and worms (although the girly girl portion hates bugs, but worms some how are okay) etc. Then during Kindergarden it changed. I first had the evidence needed when she tried throwing her toy cars away saying they were boy toys. I asked her why she was crying and she said because said girl can't play with cars. I of course called the teacher and when she insisted she wasn't sexist, I called the prinipal and said explicitly I'm not calling her a sexist, I AM saying that she made an impression on my daughter that she wasn't allowed to play with certain toys because they were for boys. All the principal would do was insist the teacher wasn't sexist. Frankly, if the teacher was, at least then I could understand the problem. If she isn't why is my request that she be more careful about what she says (this wasn't the first sexist problem; I'm a single dad and the teacher kept telling my daughter have your mom buy you a new back pack because I don't like this one even after I wrote her numerous notes saying I'm a single dad and day-to-day purchases and care are my responsibility) and sit down and tell my daughter it was just a misunderstanding and she can play with things like cars if she wants to. Its only been since her mom got her an EEE-pc for Christmas this year (First grade) that I've really seen a change. Suddenly she's interested in computers and asking me how our wireless internet works. If I'm on the computer, she asks if I'm fixing it and if so how. Or she found the astronomy program and she's wanting to look at stars. Or she used to be REALLY into biology since she saw her uncle gut a fish, and she's asking to look up things on what the insides of animals look like. I don't think I would have bought a first grader a laptop, but its brought my daughter back.

    3. Re:correction needed by ScrappyTheObscure · · Score: 1

      Hear! Hear! A. I'm female. and B. My 6 yr old daughter just enthusiastically signed up for robotics camp this summer. I'm hoping to god the person teaching it isn't some complete tool who can't engage her. The good news is, her good friend's mom is a research scientist and I'm a programmer. We're jokingly planning on taking over the robotics team when the girls get to highschool. So role models, they do have.

      Keeping female role models in front of your daughter would help if you've got them. If not, finding "girl-friendly" science projects is actually a full time sport. I recently discovered Leah Buechley's Lily Pad Arduino project and have been plotting electronic circuitry education through sewing projects over the next few years. The metal boards are pricey, but they've started making the fabric ones cheaply.

      I'm looking for robotics projects, but haven't got any on-tap this minute.

  44. Scribbler Robot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In one of my intro CS classes, we used a scribbler robot with a custom bluetooth dongle to allow easy programming in Python. I seem to recall the robots have a simple BASIC like language to begin with. See http://www.roboteducation.org/ [roboteducation.org].

  45. K-5? by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

    Well there is always K-9 ... scratch that, that's probably for a time lord ;)

    --
    Jumpstart the tartan drive.
  46. For very little kids (3-5) by davevr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For the low end of that range, it is fun to PLAY robot. Explain the concept that robots only do exactly what you say, and then make some "commands" like "move forward", "turn left", "pick up object" and then work together to try to solve problems, like "how can we get the rubber snake into your sister's bed?". The kid plays the role of the programmer, the CPU, the robot motor (we use toy dump trucks typically for this), and the all-important role of the debugger.

  47. how much can you spend??? by way2trivial · · Score: 1

    http://www.legoeducation.com/store/default.aspx?CategoryID=159&by=9&c=1

    Not cheap-- but far more than just wedo avaiable.

    not even all lego products.. search for 'brutus'

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
  48. Animatronics is a cool alternative... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Animatronics - building robotic puppets that perform a show - works great for younger kids. Some parents have been doing this on a volunteer basis, and put together a web site with lots of useful information.

    Hope this helps...

  49. FIRST Robotics by arekuanubis · · Score: 1

    I'd recommend taking a look at FIRST robotics. FIRST stands for For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology, they are an organization created to get young people interested in engineering related fields for schooling. definitely worth taking a look into. http://www.usfirst.org/

  50. You have died of dysentery. by gandhi_2 · · Score: 1

    How about an OregonTrailBot? A scripted user-agent that could break its leg and die of dysentery, thus learning about the dangers of expansionism so the kids don't have to.

  51. Re:did you just see that robot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those kids would just love little robotic bunnies. So cute and they come in lots of colors...

    http://www.therabbitvibrator.com/

  52. K-5 Lesson Plans from MathScience Innovation Ctr by scerruti · · Score: 1

    The Math and Science Center in Richmond, VA has a robotics lab for K-5. You can find the lesson plans online at http://www.msinnovation.info/sch/lctr.htm
    My wife taught these lessons and enjoyed them.

  53. FLL by ki4hrg · · Score: 1

    While I have no personal experience with the program, I know people who participate in, and have had great success with, FLL (FIRST Lego League) is an outstanding program. I currently am lead programmer at the high school level for a team, and I know it's a great program at that level. As for platforms, I mentor an elementary team which uses NXT, with Robolab as the programming environment. I've never had any problem with it, and it's relatively easy for the kids to pick up on. The Robolab environment (based on LabVIEW fwiw) is very good for teaching logic and then relating it to robot actions.

  54. You're not that smart by Alarindris · · Score: 1

    And neither are they. Just because you think you were a genious when you were 5 doesn't mean anyone else was. Didn't mean you were either.

    I'd say start with the alphabet, shapes, colors, and counting, and then maybe you can move to reading, writing, and mathematics.

    They're too fucking young for robotics.

  55. Get David Cook's book by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My son and I built a robot together using David Cook's fantastic book "Robot Building for Beginners".

    http://www.amazon.com/Robot-Building-Beginners-David-Cook/dp/1893115445/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

    He was four at the time. He helped with every aspect of the robot except the actual soldering. His favorite part was breadboarding the electronics since he got to put all the parts in by himself and see what happened with each new module added to the circuit. We spent a lot of time together shopping and scrounging for parts as well as building the robot. The reaction that he had when it was all built and working was priceless.

    Sure he didn't learn anything about circuit analysis or programming but he does have an idea of what a resister does, what a transistor does etc. and he has an idea of what it takes to get a project done from start to finish. That's not bad for a four year old.

    Now, his favorite thing to do is build things and he wants very much to be a scientist or engineer so I feel it was time, money and effort well spent.

  56. What we did by Yvanhoe · · Score: 1

    I used to be part of Planète Science, a non-profit that teaches basic science to children of a lot of ages. I had a small workshop (~30 mins) where I explained the basis of robotics and programming to everyone interested including children younger than 10 years. What we had was one of the most simple robots possible : two sensors and one servo. It was in the shape of a cartoon sunflower. Its (smiling) head had two photo-resistor in place of eyes and the head could turn thanks to the servo. The obvious goal was to make it follow the light. We had a specially designed GUI to program the microchip embedded in the flowerpot.

    I'm an engineer so I have very few experience with teaching. Hopefully, someone helped me see some basic facts:
    - A servo is fun. Through our GUI we could simply change manually the position of the servo. Let children just do that. Let them put 50 and then 51 to see if they notice the movement, let them put 0 and 256 to check the maximum speed, they can play quite a bit with this.
    - Then we had the inputs of the photoresistors. Let them hide it or light it so that they see how it varies.
    - Don't show them what you are doing, let them do. I had a program that was almost complete except for the central part. I had a "if" with an empty expression and block and an empty "else" block. I explained what a test was and let them try several things. I guided them until they understood that the condition lefteye>righteye was interesting and that motor++ and motor-- was what they were looking for.
    - Gloat about what they just did ! It is a robot ! And yes, explain that with sensors, with an actuator and with an algorithm, what they did completely qualifies as a robot. Far more than the RC "robotic" spider they saw just before and that had zero sensors :-)

    --
    The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
  57. Go for the NXT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's one of the more advanced lego robotics kits but go for an NXT. You can teach some simple programming at the same time if you want with the NXT or there is a graphical programming client.

    Check out www.nxtprograms.com/projects.html for some great ideas and the programs to get you going.

  58. Helpful Link by DeeprKyo · · Score: 1

    The institution i study (research) at hosts the Jounior First Robotics challenge. There are always anoying little kids shouting down the passage when one is trying to study a paper:);) ANyway to the point, take a look at their website: http://www.fllsa.org.za/community.htm I know some of the organisers they are friendly and (usually) helpful. You can contact them if you would like more information (see the "contact us" page). All the best.:D

  59. Difficult to be sure, but by aunt+edna · · Score: 1

    "What experience do all y'all have of running a robotics club for this age group (5 thru 10 years old)... "

    Actually, I think I work for one of these.
    I'm off-site so I'm just going by signs of intelligence, behaviour and achievement ... looks like a pretty good fit, though.

  60. We used Lego at OrionRobots by dannystaple · · Score: 1

    Our club went pretty well when it was in full swing in the summer of 2005. We used Lego almost exclusively - with the RCX for more complicated tasks, or a SpyBotix and two Manas units for simpler RC robots.

    The kids learned basic stuff like building strong structures, mechanical linkages, getting more than one action from a single motor, as well as teamwork and planning.

    The format was to do a challenge, then give some theory that would enable them to do the same challenge better, and let them try it again. That way, the theory is relevant.

    I also used some flat MDF, spray painted black, with Yellow Hazard taped borders to lay out arenas for RC bots - where the challenges were different - build something for speed, build one for control, build one that can get over the gap, build sumo bots. Black painted MDF with Yellow hazard borders looks like robot wars so they were really thrilled.

    We did not participate in FLL, but I did try to get the kids to build a Great Ball Contraption - which was their largest group project.

    OrionRobots now owns an NXT too, but is not currently running a club, perhaps I will again later, but for now I have my own kid on the way.

  61. Has anyone run Lego WeDo on wine? by BroadbandBradley · · Score: 1

    There isn't any windows at my house, can this kit work with Linux?

  62. Robotics for K-5, by Kilbanio · · Score: 1

    My company currently runs robotic programs for this age group. With kids K though 1 we have them explore a variety of robots that we get from OWI (www.robotkitsdirect.com). We have them experiment with various transportation systems such as tracks, legs, and wheels and various sensors such as the light sensor on the spider III and Hyper Line Tracker, as well as the microphone on the RockIt robot. We use a variety of remote control robots such as the Kabuto Mushi, Soccer Jr., and Air Zinger to talk about ROV (remotely operated vehicles) We also use their robotic arm kits with a laptop interface. We link all of these to real world examples with lots of laminated pictures. For kids grades 2 through 5 you do all of that and can have a lot of fun. We have been using the mindstorms systems from LEGO for about five years. With supervision they can build a simple roaming robot with bump sensors in about two hours or less. The programing interface provided with the retail kids, not the lab view version, is very simple and linear in design. It's drag and drop programing that the kids pick up very easily. 4th and 5th graders will venture into some of the more advanced features of the programs. For our summer camps we have the 2nd through 5th graders build an OWI kit robot such as the Air Zinger, RockIt Robot, Kabuto Mushi, Robotic Arm Trainer and the Robotic Arm Edge throughout the camp. At the end of the camp they get to keep the robot they built.

  63. Another vote for JFLL by wirelessjb · · Score: 1

    My daughter is in 2nd grade and my wife coached her team in Junior First Lego League this year. The rules specify that you have to include simple machines and moving parts (using motors and human power). The kids did all the work on their own and they totally get it. They got to show off their creation at LegoLand California. I highly recommend this program for K-5 students.

  64. I thought k5 was dead? by Noexit · · Score: 1

    n/t

    --

    Never argue with a man carrying a water buffalo

  65. Special Interest Group for CS Education by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While not specifically aimed at robots in education the people at SIGCSE would be an excellent resource for this sort of project and can likely give a research based opinion. Their website is http://www.sigcse.org/index.shtml

  66. A similar idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is an article over at Dadmins.com about teaching young children programming and team work that may be of some help to you.

    http://www.dadmins.com/2009/01/teaching-kids-the-basics-of-programming-using-physical-props/

  67. I coached a team of FFL: 8 to 11 year olds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Three weeks ago I finished coaching a team of 8 kids, 8 to 11 years old. We met for four consecutive months, once a week. From this experience I can tell you that 5 is way to young so as to participate in a robotics club. Our 8 year olds could pay attention for maybe 45 minutes, and that was it. I think a 5 year old would become disruptive after maybe 10 minutes. It is a nice idea, but impractical. We used the NXT Lego kit.

  68. Been there, done that by atkulp · · Score: 1

    I've been running a Robotics Club in my local elementary school for 2.5 years now. We have a Mindstorms NXT set and the club is always very popular. One thing that helps is having interested parents. Several of them wish they had such a club as a kid so enjoy helping! One of them brings an NXT set from home so we have two to use. I show videos of robot-related things (funny commercials, industrial robots, trade show robots, Robo Wars). I also manage a junior high team for FLL and challenge the K-6 kids with similar challenges. Some of them love to build, some design, some program, and of course I encourage them to take turns. I have about 1/3rd girls, the rest boys. It's a lot of fun!

    Feel free to contact me for more details.
    http://www.ariankulp.com/

  69. Usenet thread and hobby robot clubs by antispam_ben · · Score: 1

    Here's a recent thread on the Usenet newsgroup comp.robotics.misc - the poster asks about how to do a high school club, but (especially with other posts here about how smart kids are) many responses should apply to your situation:

    http://groups.google.com/group/comp.robotics.misc/browse_thread/thread/775ceae020f351a6#

    I hadn't heard of the TI calculator interface before, and I've been to the monthly Atlanta meeting for years. Lately we've been wowed by one member's 3PI line follower (video on the site below).

    And while the following isn't what you asked, it will make a good complement, and you're bound to find others there from your area with school-related activities similar to yours who can help. There may already be a general hobby robot club in your city that welcomes "children of all ages." Google for these:

    robot clob
    hobby robot

    with the name of the nearest major city.

    There's certainly a club in Atlanta:
    http://botlanta.org/

    Be sure to check out the Links page, at the bottom are links to other robot clubs in the USA (there may be other clubs not listed).

    --
    Tag lost or not installed.
  70. LEGO Mindstorms NXT resources by Technically+Learning · · Score: 1

    I am part of a non-profit organization based in Seattle, WA that partners with local public schools to bring technology into classrooms. We have primarily worked with elementary and middle schools and the LEGO Mindstorms NXT kits. I would highly recommend the NXT robotics kits. They are very flexible tools which can be used for a very wide range of ages. We have had success using them with 1st grade through 8th grade - the kids love them! I also know of other programs using them at the high school as well as college level. On the other hand, the Wedo kits are appropriate only for the younger ages, and have a much more limited set of possible activities. For curriculum and activity ideas, take a look at our website: http://technicallylearning.org/ And our partner organization at Tufts University: http://legoengineering.com/