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DHS To Use Body Odor As a Lie Detector
The US Department of Homeland Security is studying lies, damned lies, and smells. They hope to prove that human body odor could be used to tell when people are lying. The department says they are already "conducting experiments in deceptive behavior and collecting human odor samples" and that the research it hopes to fund "will consist primarily of the analysis and study of the human odor samples collected to determine if a deception indicator can be found."
First they hire a Microsoft dude, then they start smelling people.
UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever ones.
It breaks the main page.
C'mon, it's not that hard to resize it before posting.
"We'll need 2000 crickets, 4 cans of Easy Cheese, and the fluid from 18 glowsticks for this plan to work...." - ph0n1c
investigator: Suspect A, did you just fart? ..
suspect A: no!
All they need to collect the samples is already at hand.
Before you say Congress may help, no chance. The rarest resource on the planet is politician sweat.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Hello, is that an armpit hoover? Or are you just pleased to see me?
I always make an effort to shower or bathe before I have a flight, especially if it is long-haul.
Now, I don't particularly care for the idea of a 'lie-sniffer', as it is just more tin-foil-hattery from leeches who can demand government funding to 'fight teh terrorists'. However, if they keep the guy that is a couple of hundred pounds overweight, and hasn't washed for a week, off the plane - I'll be happy.
Where's the Kaboom?
There's supposed to be an Earth-shattering Kaboom.
"I take the 5th amendment" or "I choose to remain silent"
Don't give the government anything, else they will use it later to entrap you or jail you. The right to free speech also includes the right to be quiet.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
After all, it would be nice to be able to say that Office Depot's policy of lying to customers literally STINKS!
So how are they going to calibrate this?
Your Stink-o-Lie-Meter
1. Kid with hand in cookie jar
10. Madoff with hand in cookie jar
66. Used car salesman
666: Bush "They Have WMDs" salesman
2. "No, the dress doesn't make you look fat."
0. "It's not the dress."
9. "It's not the dress, and I ENJOY sleeping on the couch!"
4. It's a bug (it's not a "bug" - it didn't crawl in on its' own volition - fess up and admit you made a mistake).
40. It's a feature.
0. "They're real." (It's none of your business, Jack!)
9. "I didn't forget your birthday."
500. "We have a plan to deal with the current financial crisis" - ANY POLITICIAN - we KNOW you're just making this sh*t up as you go along.
499. "Bankruptcy is not an option." - GM head honcho Ron Wagoner
Lie Away: Smell like a politician without the hassle of cheating constituents. Now available in Dick Cheney, Nixon, and Bernie Madoff scents.
Something's definitely fishy about that guy's answers...
Just looking to smell the fear on you. Will it be able to tell if someone is actually lying or just really nervous that they're being questioned by a federal agency?
The musings of just another geek and his junk.
I wonder about detection rate. If someone is lying, how long would it take to detect the lie based on body odour, it's not like it would change in a second. This makes me wonder just how useful this would be?
Since France is about to join NATO (which of course they call OTAN) this could lead to serious diplomatic incidents.
"You, Sir, are a dirty liar! The machine says so!"
"Sale espece de cochon, I have simply had snails in garlic with a bottle of Burgundy for lunch."
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Brazil and Argentina have historical disputes over who is the "best" on South America. Obviously it leads to some funny jokes on either side.
One closely related to USA auto induced paranioa state of mind says that an "argentino" and a "brasileiro" found a lamp. The argentino rubbed the lamp first but the brasileiro hold the lamp for him to do it. A genius emerged and saw the problem immediately: he could not grant 3 wishes, one of them would get 2 wishes and other 1. So he granted 2 wishes, one for each of them. Since the argentino rubbed the lamp first, he wished a great wall would appear on all Argentina frontiers so they could be isolated from the bad interference of their neighbors, being Argentina the greatest nation of all. Wish granted, the genius made a wall one mile high around all Argentina. Next the genius asked the brazilian what was his wish. He asked the genius before anything if the Argentina's wall was really high and resistant. The genius answered that nothing could break that wall. The brasileiro asked immediately: fill it with water.
USA is almost asking for problems when they think all the world want to attck them when USA is the most common attacker or influencer on all wars from World War II and later. They must take care with what they wish: it can be granted.
Disclaimer: I'm brazilian, so the joke is biased.
Time to wash, boys!
I know personally that body odor differs by race, diet, and culture. Is that to say that if I eat at my local Pakstani resturant the night before trying to use the BO biometric, I may be identified as a Pashtun tribal warlord? Does this take into account that prescription medication could cause a change? Just by taking an antibiotic could I cause a false positive? I hate to think loading up on ginger or curry or treating an infection could mean I end up on the waterboard. This seems as useful as gait recognition. http://gtresearchnews.gatech.edu/newsrelease/GAIT.htm .... That really went nowhere and I seem to remember a massively huge database - like 2PB. But who am I to judge apparently nows the time to push for funding on crap projects.
"He farted! He is a terrorist!"
If they want odour, let them have it, full throttle. Eat chilli beans with garlic and cream cheese (or whatever supercharges your afterburner) a few hours before boarding a flight.
"I fart in your general direction! In fact, I fart uncontrollably in all directions!"
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
Polygraph, and other assorted gadget do NOT detect lie. Ever. What they possibly detect is stress, (fear and its little cousin nervousness for example) which in some case may or may not be correlated to a lie. It is all based on putting the idea that "it works" in the mind of people it tests, and indeed sometimes law enforcement get confession from people (they CAN use the confession but may not use any lie detector crap, and recently even that was put under fire). There isn't really a good scientific background on it The Lie behind the lie detector.
Using odor instead of breathing heart beat and so on will not bring anymore science is this than pissing into a violin and expecting a concerto.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
[Prof. Farnsworth is searching for Terrorists with his Smelloscope]
Leela: Anything yet, professor?
Professor Hubert Farnsworth: I'm afraid the Smelloscope can't locate the terrorist. His fragrance is too mild. It's being overwhelmed by local sources.
[Everyone looks at DHS Goon Zoidberg]
DHS Goon Zoidberg: Hooray! Now I'm the center of attention.
'If Christ had tweeted the sermon on the mount, it might have lasted until nightfall.' - John Perry Barlow
what next, phrenology?
phlogiston?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Barack Obama?
I find your lack of honesty disturbing
You may be silent, but I can tell you're deadly
Lawyer: And what tipped you off that there was indeed a body in the closet officer?
Officer: The suspect farted.
Lawyer: Excuse me? He farted?
Officer: That's right - my fart analyzer detected an increase level of methane that led me to believe the suspect was hiding something.
Defense: Could it have been that he was just wanting to hide that he was farting - not that he was guilty?
Officer: If you were in that room, sir, you would have arrested him to. It was the least of things to be done.
1)Commit horrendous crimes
2)Start playing WoW
3)????
4)PROFIT
Pull my finger.
I am so screwed.
1. This is my odor. There are many like it, but this one is mine. 2. My stench is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
As the co-founder of a website dedicated to exposing and ending waste, fraud, and abuse associated with supposed "lie detectors," I think this project stinks. It's redolent of the old East German secret police -- the Stasi -- who maintained a "smell register" of dissidents. For a short video commentary, see Smellograph.
George W. Maschke
AntiPolygraph.org
... There's the smell they are looking for.
poor gamer's they will be always seen as liar's _
If the government can detect our lies I say it's only fair that we should have use of this tech. To detect theirs!
If such a thing was allowed you can bet that Homeland Security would cut funding to this thing immediately and maybe even send the scientists to an undisclosed location.
Jerry, just remember: It's not a lie if you believe it.
this proves we can't trust those Europeans!
Now we see the violence inherent in the system.
1. This is my odor. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
2. My stench is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
There is a much easier way to tell if someone is a problem, other than testing their body odor.
Gentlemen, let me introduce you to a little something I like to call "Phrenology"...
This is just precious - the Stasi in the GDR (east germany to most) did exactly the same thing with their suspects.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,484561,00.html
http://scent-lab.blogspot.com/2008/07/body-odor-preserved-and-exhibited-at.html
People being interrogated would frequently be asked to sit with their palms face down on a piece of cloth, usually stuck to the chair. After the interrogation, the cloth would be removed and placed in a jar for later analysis. I don't believe it's ever been admissible as evidence in any western court, but that's obviously what the whole DHS "proof" is all about.
Quite why one would invest so many resources in this when fingerprints and DNA are already reliable forms of identification I don't know, and I strongly suspect that the "indicator" of deception will be flawed for much the same reasons the results of a polygraph are flawed - I can understand how someone who's stressed might well emit a different sort of sweat than someone who's just hot, but trying to define a "liars sweat" reeks (hohoho) of pseudoscience to me.
Who knows, maybe there's something in it, maybe the article is making too much of things, maybe I've got my paranoid hat on. But it still seems worryingly like the whole "this man is the serial killer cos his writing is all weird" argument to me.
Moderation Total: -1 Troll, +3 Goat
The new fragrance by Calvin Klein.
If they have enough money to do this project, why haven't we cut their budget yet?
Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
Holy mackeral! Talk about racial profiling!
the French, Hatians, and Quebecois are all liars.
They're using their grammar skills there.
They won't use this on flights back from Vegas. All the cheating husbands and wives that over gambled their nest egg and just got done lying to said spouse on the phone will gum up the system. "What happens in Vegas, Stays in Vegas" has a whole new meaning when you aren't allowed to board your flight home.
Something just isn't right.
[german] http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%B6rpergeruchsprobe
You can check some facts in RL too: http://www.boingboing.net/2007/07/03/stasi-smell-museum.html
As if the "hit" Fox show Lie to Me weren't bad enough fiction, we're hit with this silly story. Lie detector tests are not always accurate and use much more elaborate measurements of the human body. What's next, the government is going to bring in Phil Helmuth to start reading criminals' tells?
We already can tell when someone from the government is lying.
Their lips are moving.
to determine if a deception indicator can be found.
The only lie is the headline.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Any of these external factors could be caused by any number of reasons - most of which are present in spades at an airport. Maybe the first place to use them would be on the contractors who will make the money from selling this turkey to the government:
Question: "does it work?"
Detected answer: "no of course not"
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
I think it's pretty certain that such indicators will be found, at least initially. They probably don't exist, or if they do, they probably will be about as reliable as today's polygraphs (ie, not at all). But they will be found nevertheless, for the simple reason that no indicators means no more money.
Wear Deodorant.
Stupidity only gets you so far, then you've gotta try
>"Proof of Concept"...was the very earliest stage of technological development
so I read that as saying it's been proposed.
And they would really really like to have some .gov pay for it all, but... no promises on results!
sheesh.
Well this doesn't pass the sniff test ... Oh wait ...
Technically, murder-suicide does not violate the golden rule.
This wont work...terrorists obviously don't bathe and are allergic to soap. Sheesh, don't any of those DHS people read the news?
my goodness, if lies = stink, I suspect the Obama's needed some air fresheners to even set foot in the white house.
Paying geeks money to test smells is not going to help stimulate the economy.
Smells like yihad spirit.
a policeman interrogating a criminal and saying "Your so full of shit I can smell you."
everyone will be found to be lying....
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
is invent/patent a cologne/perfume that smells like a lie and poof profit?????????
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
They could also be typing or writing, or in some instances nodding.
Your brain is not a computer.
...bulshit to me! :)
At least now we know why people will believe anything they read on the internet---they can't smell the author.
There really is a feeding frenzy going on at the government trough right now, isn't there? If "that smells suspicious" made the cut, what other figures of speech can we get paid to test? I think I'll see if I can get paid to study why feet smell and noses run. Or the scientific difference between shutting up and quieting down.
This space intentionally left blank.
DHS has announced several studies attempting to serve as lie detection. All of the others had a fatal flaw, as does this one. A major problem is that they detect physiological changes or signals but can't determine the reason. A person nervous about flying will respond to this measure the same as a person planning to blow it up. Another problem is that this measure requires 15 to 60 seconds for the body to react maximally. The amount of time being interrogated will build up to the point that most anyone would get annoyed, something else they can't differentiate. There's also the problem of overlap of the effect of sequential questions and the cognitive/emotional reaction to them. Two control questions in a row makes a person wonder "what are they getting at?" and that causes the same physiological reaction as the other causes.
DHS has no intention of wasting the money on real devices for this and the other measures. They know full well they won't work. They also know full well that the vast majority of people don't know these things wouldn't work. These press releases about lie detection devices are pure propoganda. DHS has become a junior Ministry of Truth in an attempt to remain viable. It has already failed in most of its mission, and anything that's not yet a failure gives them reason to continue working and absorbing funding. Psyops seems to be the only thing it's capable of.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
A good majority of America will be labeled terrorists.
...be he sure as hell reeks too badly to be allowed on the plane.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
Bathe and use a lot of deodorant before that next flight.
Ha! I fart in your general direction!
Since DHS is modeling itself on the Stasi, maybe they could come up with a cuter name like Dehose. It brings to mind the lovely image of being castrated by ghetto sluts.
passes the sniff test.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
I have a real body odour problem due to a medical condition. It is not uncommon for me to take a shower twice a day even. It's a chronic, "incurable" condition I have had since childhood. Yes, you can all jump in here and insert "boy you stink " jokes. I think I've heard them all, but I'm always up for new material. :)
Back to the point, what am I supposed to do now - carry around a letter form my doctor or wear a medi-alert bracelet that states I have a medical condition that affect body odour and no, I'm not a terrorist just because I don't smell right?
I wonder if situation like mine are being addressed with this "new" technology, or if people are even aware of the potential issue to begin with? Or do they even care?
You can check your anatomy all you want, and even though there may be normal variation, when it comes right down to it, this far inside pseudoscience it all looks the same.
We might have a non-invasive method to tell if the guy you are torturing is just making stuff up to get you to stop torturing him.
Time to wash, boys!
I don't care if they stink or not, but rubbing soap on the DHS folks is unlikely to speed your passage through security...
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
So they detect if a person is under stress. So the psychopaths, who do not suffer from stress the same way as a normal person get off free. Aldrich Aimes passed his lie detector tests, how much more proof do people need that stress analysis is a bit pointless.
You mean all those stinky people at the gym are lying?
I knew that guy wasn't really bench-pressing 300 lbs.
Next week, in a dramatic new spin-off from "Lie To Me," the premiere of "Sniff Me," starring the Ghost of Abe Vigoda.
He put his boots up on the table and made a face. "The sig," he smirked. "You can waste your life in search of the sig."
that's all I got... the subject is the punch line... ;-)
It could explain why some dogs bite shady acting people.
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
Here is how I reduced my body odor to the point that I don't even use deoderant anymore:
1. Stop eating refined sugar. I mean anything with refined sugar. No more donuts, cookied, cakes, ice cream, etc.
2. Stop, and I mean really stop eating/drinking anything with high fructose corn syrup. Yes. That means no more soda. No more fake juices. No more candy. No more so called energy bars. This means religiously looking at labels.
3. Cut out red meats. I mean all of them. If you must eat meat, limit yourself to white meat and fish.
4. Get out and exercise.
5. Make your own juices. Get a juicer. Juice fresh organic vegitables and fruits. I mean everything from wheatgrass, spinach, celery, carrots (lots of those), beats (lots of those also). Oranges (the whole thing; don't skin or peal them).
I started this ragime in April, 2008 and now I have lost over 40 pounds and have noticed s very significent drop in body odor. I can go weeks without deoderant. Sure, I still shower, but I don't do through a stick every two weeks. I still have
the same stick that I had March of 2008.
Under this ragime, I am about 95 percent vegitarian and about 85 percent vegan.
And I have lost at least 90 percent of my body odor. I also look and feel younger.
I think that this ragime, I would have no problems with homeland security and airports.
Luv
Cleara
Cleara
Cleanliness is next to Truthiness.
Are they now going to get the trainers for the armpit dogs from the old DDR? WTF?
It'll just determine whether you lied about taking a shower.
Welp, the DHS has it right. I always knew Slashdotters were full of shit; now I can pin it on the smell and call it a day.
I'm sweating already