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Amazon Uses DMCA To Restrict Ebook Purchases

InlawBiker writes "Today, Amazon invoked the DMCA to force removal of a python script and instructions from the mobileread web site. The script is used to identify the Kindle's internal ID number, which can be used to enable non-Amazon purchased books to work on the Kindle. '...this week we received a DMCA take-down notice from Amazon requesting the removal of the tool kindlepid.py and instructions for it. Although we never hosted this tool (contrary to their claim), nor believe that this tool is used to remove technological measures (contrary to their claim), we decided, due to the vagueness of the DMCA law and our intention to remain in good relation with Amazon, to voluntarily follow their request and remove links and detailed instructions related to it.' Ironically, the purpose of the script is to make the Kindle more useful to its users."

409 comments

  1. Re:Kindle is a piece of shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    and so are you slashdot fags!

    Grow up and quit name calling, we're not in kindlegarten anymore!

  2. Progress by TTURabble · · Score: 5, Funny
    1. Re:Progress by squidfood · · Score: 1

      But those are not without their Problems.

    2. Re:Progress by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Blank Reg: This is a network linker. It's a bit out of your league, idn'it, Paula?
      Paula: So, whatch'll you trade for it? ... What's that?
      Blank Reg: It's a book!
      Paula: Well, what's that?
      Blank Reg: It's a non-volatile storage medium. It's very rare. You should 'ave one.
      Paula: Stuff it!

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    3. Re:Progress by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And Amazon FAILS!!

      http://igorsk.blogspot.com/2007/12/mobipocket-books-on-kindle.html

      A google search turns up a gazillion more.

    4. Re:Progress by DrLang21 · · Score: 3, Funny

      All lies. Data contained in books deteriorates over time. As proof, how many books do we have from the 1st century AD?

      --
      I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
    5. Re:Progress by liquiddark · · Score: 1

      Luckily there's a nice ECC mechanism called (for historical reasons) "proofreading" and a similarly robust mechanism for restoring data called "printing".

    6. Re:Progress by __aasqbs9791 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_Stone

      Okay, it isn't a book, and it sure isn't intact, but I'd be willing to bet no ebook file bought today will be readable at all in over 2000 years (not sure how you'd collect on that bet). The more portable and convenient we make information, the easier it is to lose it. It seems the way we combat this is to make many copies and put them all around, but that defeats at least part of the purpose of make it take up so little room.

      But I suppose when a large amount of the information created is like http://www.timecube.com/ I guess it is okay if we lose most of it. ;^)

    7. Re:Progress by toriver · · Score: 1

      But as Number Five would say, they are still "INPUT!"

    8. Re:Progress by bakawolf · · Score: 0

      ah, but how many eBooks do we have from the first century AD?

    9. Re:Progress by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>As proof, how many books do we have from the 1st century AD?

      Millions. Of course they weren't called books, but "scrolls" however as Shakespeare observed: a rose by any other name smells just as sweet. The technology is the same whether it's bound or rolled.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    10. Re:Progress by Schemat1c · · Score: 1

      ah, but how many eBooks do we have from the first century AD?

      Between 150 B.C.E. to 70 C.E..
      2nd century AD.

      --

      "Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better." - Unknown
    11. Re:Progress by Schemat1c · · Score: 1

      Oops meant to reply to GP

      --

      "Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better." - Unknown
    12. Re:Progress by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you read this, you might not thing of the TIMECUBE stuff so badly anymore...

    13. Re:Progress by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How much digital media do we have from that time? NONE!

    14. Re:Progress by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have a few despite there not being as many then and l337 Book (TM) Hackers fine tuning their methods of destruction on other people's Book (TM) servers. Once they discovered you could oppress a people by "burning" their Book (TM) it was all over.

    15. Re:Progress by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Fellow Kindle-owners, I can smell a good old fashioned book-burning bonfire coming on. Who's with me? Who's got the contact with the press? Who's got a Kindle to loan me for the duration of the event?

      I'm afraid I lied about owning a Kindle, but this doesn't mean I would pass up the chance to burn someone else's Kindle on principle (if that's what that person wanted).

    16. Re:Progress by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Originals? Almost none. Copies? Well, a few.

      There's this ancient artform called "copying". Some still can do it. It's quite obscure by now, but it was used to create a duplicate of the original. Think xerox, but of stuff you actually want to read.

      That was before the DMCA and DRM protected us from having to endure the American Idiot songs long after the CD you bought them on was scratched and soon shrouded in the mystery of time.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    17. Re:Progress by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All lies. Data contained in books deteriorates over time. As proof, how many books do we have from the 1st century AD?

      You mean clay tablets or scrolls, don't you ?

    18. Re:Progress by Pollardito · · Score: 1

      we have plenty of writings of the ancient Greeks, unfortunately not a single ebook from the 1st century has been uncovered

  3. Way to let a company by geekoid · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    trample you.

    Stupid sheep.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:Way to let a company by tritonman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Kindle is probably like the playstation, they don't make money on selling the unit, they make money on you buying books for it.

    2. Re:Way to let a company by Ibag · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just because you run and hide from a pack of wolves doesn't mean you are a sheep. While you might wish them to martyr themselves for your principles, if they don't have the resources to fight, or if a win would not accomplish anything for anybody else, why shouldn't they act in their own best interests?

    3. Re:Way to let a company by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Playstation 1 was probably pre-razor-and-blade game system market.

    4. Re:Way to let a company by gnick · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or printers/ink or razors/blades. The big difference with e-books is that you have to create a shortage of product while it's a natural side-effect for ink or razors. You can't just download new razors.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    5. Re:Way to let a company by Chabo · · Score: 1

      Quick, call Cory Doctorow!

      --
      Convert FLACs to a portable format with FlacSquisher
    6. Re:Way to let a company by geekoid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Becasue even fighting it loudly could casuse Amazon to back down. Best case, Amazon loks like a bully, and people hate that.
      IT also loudly shows the problems with the DMCA.

      And if you make your fight in the arean of public opinion, you have strong allies. Based on cost, you qwould probably end up needing to do that.

      Personally, I would post the letter on a blog. Pay a few hundred dollars to get a lawyer to draft a response.

      The rest acan eb a public fight, for little cost.

      So, while running and hiding from something you can't defeat is on thing, running and hiding when you ahve other cation to take is being a sheep.

      You let the fear of the person with the stick cause you to run like everyone else.

      This behavior should be avoided whenever possible because you can have all the rights in the world, but if you refuse to defend them, then really you have no rights at all.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    7. Re:Way to let a company by meyekul · · Score: 1

      When will they learn that this is an outdated and flawed plan?  I mean, it's a lot harder to illegally download a Kindle than an E-book; they should focus on the products that they have more control over.

    8. Re:Way to let a company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, cause /. would rally the financial support to take on Amazon.

      Get da fuck outta here.

    9. Re:Way to let a company by Meski · · Score: 1

      Is there a EULA printed on the new razor blades forbidding you from sharpening them? I was intrigued by one on a printer cartridge the other day.

    10. Re:Way to let a company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you are going to find the script and instructions and host it on a website? Then you will fight any take down notice?

    11. Re:Way to let a company by centuren · · Score: 1

      trample you.

      Stupid sheep.

      While I didn't come up with those words exactly, I was thinking something along these lines. IIRC, Google has praised the DMCA as the only reason sites like YouTube can survive, because it provides a safe-haven for people in that situation.

      If they received an official takedown notice, it seems like at least an attempt to file an official response to it and who knows, that might even be the end of it.

      Of course, I'd have to make that decision as an individual, not as someone who might profit more from complying with the demand then complaining about it.

    12. Re:Way to let a company by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      don't they have hosting provider in antigua?

    13. Re:Way to let a company by Ibag · · Score: 1

      Yes, it is conceivable that standing up to Amazon will cause them to back down. They might feel that this is a fight they won't win and that isn't worth the bad press. Then again, they might not. Best case scenario is that the site owner (who might just be running the site as a hobby, and who may currently be in a less than stellar financial situation) spends a few hundred dollars and kills his relationship with Amazon, which he might view as important given the content of the website. Still, no legal precedent is set.

      Worst case scenario is that Amazon views this as a legitimate matter that is too important to drop, it goes to trial, he is out thousands of dollars and a lot of time, and even if he wins, he has still lost. Additionally, I think you far overestimate how much publicity this will get. Odds are good that, even if the mainstream media picks up the story, it will only be a brief blurb. Most people who hear it won't care, and many who do will go, "Oh wow, that's a nice ebook reader!" While slashdot probably has a higher percentage of people would would buy portable ebook readers than in the general public, a boycott by all slashdot/digg/reddit/etc readers would still probably not persuade amazon to stop, if they are that concerned about piracy and the device really is a loss leader.

      I would love to see him fight and win. I hate bullies, I hate people who abuse the system, and I feel that one should be able to use hardware however one sees fit. However, I honestly cannot fault him for choosing not to fight. If you want to teach them a lesson, go ahead and pick a fight. But remember, not everybody has the luxury of being able to stand on their principles (and even fewer still have the luxury of standing on yours).

  4. First Sale My Ass by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How dare anyone attempt to enable users to do as they please with Amazon's personal property! Kindles and all their associated contents are the intellectual property of Amazon in perpetuity and just because you paid money for one and are in personal possession of it, that does not entitle you to do with it as you please.

    I mean, where would we be if people could do as they liked with the things they buy?

    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
    1. Re:First Sale My Ass by qoncept · · Score: 1, Interesting

      where would we be

      Either paying a whole lot more (than the currently subsized price of the Kindle) or not having the option to buy it at all, since Amazon would have realized up front that developing it wasn't going to be profitable.

      A better question would be, "Where would technology be if there were no financial motive for its advancement?"

      --
      Whale
    2. Re:First Sale My Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I am more angry about Amazon's blatant discrimination against disabled users by this.

      If only I had the resources and connections to get a lawyer.. sigh.

      - Legally Blind Slashdot User

    3. Re:First Sale My Ass by qoncept · · Score: 1

      I'm missing something. Cell phones are the biggie. People complain about the contracts required and early termination fees with their $20 phone. But they aren't willing to pay the $200 retail price of that phone. I hate cell phone companies at least as much as anyone else, but they aren't going to just give shit away. Business exists to make money, and it just so happens that subsidizing the cost of the hardware to sell content is generally much more popular amongst buyers than charging what a device actually costs to manufacture.

      --
      Whale
    4. Re:First Sale My Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you buy a DVD player and the retailer tells you that you can play any dvd you want on it...
      well except ones they do not like (ie: ones they do not sell themselves).

      That DVD you bought with say your new hunting call chocked full of techniques? Nope..
      That free promotion DVD from Company D? Nope...

      The product is CAPABLE of reading those dvds, someone just told you no.

      M$ tells you that you can't run firefox/operta/etc because they provide you IE on your windows box?

      Are you happy with that?

      Amazon for the most part has the upper hand on this market right now. If they keep tight hold on the restrictions then they will eventually lose sales to a more open medium when the others catch up.

    5. Re:First Sale My Ass by Sabathius · · Score: 1

      Well...without the monetary system we currently enjoy (*cough*), I guess we would create technology that was for the betterment of us all.

    6. Re:First Sale My Ass by qoncept · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This comparison doesn't work because 1) everyone in the world makes DVD players (so you could just buy someone else's) and 2) their cost isn't subsidized.

      --
      Whale
    7. Re:First Sale My Ass by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      The problem I have with that setup is the double-dipping. I understand the contract for subsidizing the phone, but the collusion between the carriers where they all (barring differences like CDMA vs GSM) have the capability to reflash an old phone to their network but refuse to is a little too much.

    8. Re:First Sale My Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The Kindle 2 is $360. Is that really a subsidized price?

    9. Re:First Sale My Ass by qoncept · · Score: 1

      Right. Just look at what communist Russia gave us.
      - Nukes
      - Tetris
      - ?

      --
      Whale
    10. Re:First Sale My Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Surely you mean "Where would technology be if there were a financial motive to make it widely available and useful for the masses?"

      You've got the cart leading the horse. Their lock-in marketing artificially shrinks the market for the device which makes mass manufacture and sale less profitable and more expensive because they can't take advantage of any larger scale production.

      The Kindle, in principle, is a pretty simple device from a modern perspective; a cell phone with a very large screen and a very restricted calling plan. Amazon is coming at this from the perspective that they don't want to be the T-Mobile (one among many content/functionality providers with subsidized and unsubsidized hardware provided by various entities) of the e-book market, they want to be the XM Sirius of the e-books.

      Sirius isn't doing so well, emulating them can't be a good plan.

    11. Re:First Sale My Ass by snowraver1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Remember the XBOX? It was hacked wide open and no longer was profitable (Technically it was never profitable) so they abandoned it and went with the xbox360, which has been much more resistant to hacking.

      Just like you feel you have the right to do whatever you want to stuff you buy, businesses feel that they have the right to protect their business model. They expect to make money not just on the initial sale of the item, but on the ongoing support of the item (through games or ebook sales).

      I understand both sides of the argument. It's a tough call.

      This wouldn't be /. without a poor analagy so here we go: When you go to a flea market and buy fireworks, they are restricted. To (responsibly) use them, they can only be used when the forest fire risk is low enough. You must launch them were there are no flammable materials nearby. You must Never launch at animals or people, etc. These rules are in place to protect people and the ecosystem. With consoles it protects people (from hackers ruining multi games) and the environment (as it helps MS/Nintendo/Sony prevent pirated games thus extending the consoles life).

      --
      Copyright 2010. All rights reserved. This comment may not be copied in any way including, but not limited to caching.
    12. Re:First Sale My Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AK47s.

    13. Re:First Sale My Ass by porcupine8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There's a big difference between a company fighting back by making the hacked item obsolete, and the company claiming that what you did is illegal and going after you in court. Companies are welcome to do whatever they want to try and design and market their products in such a way that they can only be used in the way the company wishes - the government doing it for them is not cool.

      --
      Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
    14. Re:First Sale My Ass by fulldecent · · Score: 1

      Possession is zero tenths of the law

      --

      -- I was raised on the command line, bitch

    15. Re:First Sale My Ass by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm missing something. Cell phones are the biggie. People complain about the contracts required and early termination fees with their $20 phone. But they aren't willing to pay the $200 retail price of that phone

      Speak for yourself. When I was with a GSM carrier I paid full retail price for all my phones so I could get unlocked/unbranded ones directly from Motorola and/or Nokia. Do you think that my carrier gave me a discount or let me sign up without a contract because I did this? Pffft, fat chance. Nowadays I don't bother because I'm stuck in CDMA land (Verizon is the only carrier with decent coverage around these parts) and there's no such thing as an unbranded CDMA phone, so why pay full price for one if I'm gonna be locked into a contract anyway?

      The carriers claim that the contracts are all about the subsidy but fail to offer an explanation for why the termination fee is the same regardless of whether they subsidize a cheap candy bar phone or a $600 smart phone. They fail to offer an explanation for why they don't offer you a contract-less way to sign up for postpaid service if you are willing to bring your own phone or pay full retail for one.

      Fact it, the contracts are a ploy to lock you into their service. They stopped being about subsidies a long time ago.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    16. Re:First Sale My Ass by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Fact it, the contracts are a ploy to lock you into their service

      Face it! Blah! All my typos I should be a /. editor or something.... ;)

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    17. Re:First Sale My Ass by Eil · · Score: 1

      Just like you feel you have the right to do whatever you want to stuff you buy, businesses feel that they have the right to protect their business model. They expect to make money not just on the initial sale of the item, but on the ongoing support of the item (through games or ebook sales).

      I understand both sides of the argument. It's a tough call.

      Not really. It is (or should be) up to businesses to figure out a business model that is profitable without that model relying on laws that artificially force people to behave in a certain way.

      Also, I infringed on your copyright.

    18. Re:First Sale My Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It probably is. The "equivalent" Sony is $400. The Kindle 2 is $30 cheaper and includes limitless wireless. Somebody has to be paying Nextel for that.

    19. Re:First Sale My Ass by eleuthero · · Score: 1

      and even more... you have vodka, those furry warm hats, and thousands and thousands of genuine (read replica) medals from Soviet Army officers who need money for food)... oh, and spam, lots and lots of spam.

    20. Re:First Sale My Ass by RickyMaveety · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You are right, that is a poor analogy. A better one would be a consumer purchasing a television set and then being told that he/she can only watch television shows on which that manufacturer advertises, or can only watch stations that pay the manufacturer a license fee. Amazon is using DRM to force people who purchase a Kindle from only obtaining content from them. Thus, they dictate what books the user can or cannot read on the device, regardless of the fact that the user has paid for a digital book, unless they have paid Amazon, they may not read the book on the device.

    21. Re:First Sale My Ass by DrLang21 · · Score: 3, Informative

      The firework manufacturer can't go after you for using the fireworks you buy contrary to the instructions. The State makes laws regarding the use of fireworks to prevent physical injury or death to innocent bystanders and damage to other people's property.

      --
      I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
    22. Re:First Sale My Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      They chose to sell it at the price they did, so they can just go cry me an enema. I bought it, mine now. I can do any damned thing I please with it. If that includes wiring in some car battery terminals with an external toast warmer that reads DVDs and washes my feet, so be it.

    23. Re:First Sale My Ass by snowraver1 · · Score: 1

      without that model relying on laws that artificially force people to behave in a certain way.

      You mean like laws that prevent shoplifting? What about laws that prevent other cable companys laying copper in your city? What about the laws that prevent people from broadcasting on any frequency? Do you see? I can't think of a single business model that would survive if there were no rules at all.

      That being said, there are few things that piss me off more than my locked down phone from TELUS. I guess if Telus's business model is to have customers that hate them that is their right.

      --
      Copyright 2010. All rights reserved. This comment may not be copied in any way including, but not limited to caching.
    24. Re:First Sale My Ass by nahdude812 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'd gladly pay retail price for my phone if it meant no contract. I'm highly allergic to service contracts in general, I will pay more up front to avoid them subsidizing me with tie-ins. When there's a service contract, they have no motivation to provide good service past the contract signing.

      Before I got an iPhone, I was on Verizon Wireless for quite a few years. Once my initial contract expired, I started getting frequent calls from VZW which went something like:

      "The plan you're on right now is no longer offered, but we can grandfather you in if you'll agree to a renewed contract."

      "What happens if I don't agree to the new contract?" said I.

      "You'll continue with the same features, at the same rate as you're paying now, but it won't be part of a plan," was the response.

      "What's the advantage of being on a plan if I get the same features for the same price without being on a plan?" I countered.

      "Without a plan, you... I'm not... well you would be planless! You would not be on a plan!"

      "So what reason would I have to renew my contract, if I could avoid renewing my contract and get exactly the same thing?"

      "I really suppose there's no reason you would want to do that," was the actual response one person gave me. I hope she didn't get in trouble, but I sincerely appreciated her candor.

      These calls happened weekly, and each time they got more aggressive. One person suggested that I would lose my service if I didn't agree to a new contract. When I asked her in direct terms, "Is it true that if I do not re-up my contract, I will continue with the same features as I have now, at the same price, and that there is no reason to suspect this would change any time in the foreseeable future?" she responded, "No sir, your service will be cut off." I said, "Then please disconnect my service as of tomorrow, I will go out this afternoon and find a new carrier." It turns out this was a third party company who was only authorized to renew my contract, not cancel my service.

      Previously when I had asked them to stop calling me about this, they had assured me they would.

      After this most recent interaction where I was threatened with disconnection if I didn't re-up, I called Verizon Wireless customer service directly. I asked to cancel my service, and I was transferred to the cancellation department. I told them that if I received even one more call about renewing my contract, I would cancel my service immediately. They said something about "30 business days to process that request," (keep in mind, I had been getting the calls weekly). I repeated, "I don't care how long you're told to tell me that it takes to get me off that list, if I get such a call in even five minutes, I'm calling you back immediately to cancel. If you guys can get me off the list before the next time your contracted company gets to my number, then you will keep me as a customer; if you can't, then you lose me."

      I never got another such call, and had service with them for probably three more years.

      Now bear in mind whatever subsidization of initial costs they required had already been covered. I had made no indication that I wanted to stop my service with them, and fully expected to continue my service indefinitely, but here they were trying to pressure me into a commitment with absolutely no benefit to myself. If I had kept them happily for ten years, and they had called me again for this purpose after all that time, I would have fulfilled my promise and canceled my account immediately.

      So, sorry for the long anecdote, but I'm one of those people who detests service contracts; I'll definitely cover any subsidization costs myself in order to avoid them.

    25. Re:First Sale My Ass by interval1066 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      @ObsessiveMathsFreak: "I mean, where would we be if people could do as they liked with the things they buy?"

      Indeed. I know this will sound like the same old advice, but in this case its really applicable. Don't buy a kindle. Both the Kindle and the iPod cost what they do because of the brand on their cases. I have better functionality than you get on an iPod with my cheaper mp3 player, and I read ebooks on my palm centro using a little utility that came with my palm software that converts almost any text format to a sort of mini-pdf format. I love it. Stop giving people who would tie you down to their particular brand of poison.

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    26. Re:First Sale My Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Paying Nextel for what? What does Nextel, besides being owned by Sprint (who happens to be the one providing service for the Kindle) have to do with it?

    27. Re:First Sale My Ass by jopsen · · Score: 1
      Offtopic, but:

      Right. Just look at what communist Russia gave us. - Nukes

      I don't know what your history book says... But mine doesn't say that Russians invented nukes, nor that they gave them to the Americans.

      Did you ever for a second think that maybe nuking Japan was a contributing factor to the weapon race?

      Back on topic, I hope it's possible to have less capitalistic society, than what is the norm today...
      Where I live (e.g. Denmark) I'm pretty happy with the current public services, health care, free education, educational support etc...
      But there's still way too many greedy companies making a living from cheating customers, one way or the other (e.g. fake bills, wrong bills, DRM, subscriptions etc.).
      And most if is not large enough to go to court, nor do people have the resources to do so, or care to it for that matter... But it's just a PITA to automatically without notice being given a cable subscription when you move in a new apartment... Etc... :)

    28. Re:First Sale My Ass by Americano · · Score: 2, Informative

      Amazon is using DRM to force people who purchase a Kindle from only obtaining content from them.

      100% wrong.

      Amazon is doing the exact same thing Apple did until just recently with the iTunes store and the iPod:

      • You buy from them, and the file you download is DRM'ed.
      • You want to load your own un-protected content in a supported format, you're welcome to.
      • You want to load protected content in an unsupported DRM format, you're going to be SOL.

      What this script does is address the third issue - it allows you to download content from elsewhere in a DRM-protected format, and load it on the Kindle. The script makes it slightly less restrictive than an iPod was (think download from Zune store, load on an iPod), but the essential model is the ipod / itunes store model.

      I'd love to see it all be unprotected, and available to any device that wants to load it, but this script doesn't address that issue at all: Buying DRM'ed books from a source other than Amazon is still buying DRM'ed books.

    29. Re:First Sale My Ass by the_womble · · Score: 1

      They could just buy a cheap phones like I do...

      Nokia make cheap and fairly tough phones that sell from the equivalent of $50 upwards.

    30. Re:First Sale My Ass by QuoteMstr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Thanks for the anecdote. It illuminates why laissez-faire capitalism fails again and again: market capitalism works flawlessly in theory. This theory, however, rests on the assumption that all market participants are rational actors, and that these participants have access to all the information they need. This assumption does not hold in real life.

      In real life, even relatively intelligent people only have 24 hours a day in which to make decisions, and nobody has the time to obtain all the information he needs to make rational decisions about everything. Most people will not have the skepticism or the presence of mind to question the service representative the way you did. Slick marketing exploits this weakness by pushing incorrect information that average people, pressed for time, will take as fact. Neither will most people use the courts to have contracts like this canceled, even if they become aware they were cheated: a lack of time again neuters the tools that capitalism in theory gives us to counter these abuses.

      This is why we need explicit market regulation: to compensate for human inefficiency and weakness in the market. Cell phone contracts should be made illegal outright, the way they are in parts of Europe.

    31. Re:First Sale My Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are talking baloney. The xbox failed because it was a crap PC in a console case, and had to take on to the enormously successful PS2. It had it's other uses via XBMC and its predecessor, but as a console, forget it. Too little too late.

      Hackable boxes make for good sellers. See the Wii. Early units were trivial to chip, likewise with the 360. The boxes with the most accessible software will win out in long term unit sales. The PS2 was pretty easy to mod, the first playstation embarrassingly easy. Notice the pattern? The day the PS3 can run pirated games is the day it outsells the Wii and 360 combined, if it ever gets hacked.

      Don't worry your assumption were off base, it's only been like this since the 80s. No trends whatsoever.

    32. Re:First Sale My Ass by foobsr · · Score: 1

      "Where would technology be if there were no financial motive for its advancement?"

      Yes, the development/history of FOSS clearly shows that this would work backwards.

      CC.

      --
      TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
    33. Re:First Sale My Ass by steelfood · · Score: 1

      Companies certainly don't have the right to make money off their products. In the case of Microsoft, they should stop making the product that does not make them money (which they did) or put better locks on their product (which they did). So as much as it pains me to say it, Microsoft did the non-evil thing.

      If the Kindle is too expensive without subsidies, and subsidies are impossible because it is too easy to crack, maybe it's not the Kindle's time yet. Maybe Amazon made a bad business decision by bringing it out this early. The point is, we shouldn't lose our property rights just because some famous people make a poor business decision.

      I'm not saying people should drive companies out of business. But the current system as it exists isn't capitalism anymore, it's corporate socialism. And that's the antithesis to individual freedom (as in libre).

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    34. Re:First Sale My Ass by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      Cell phone contracts should be made illegal outright, the way they are in parts of Europe

      What part of Europe would that be? What is illegal in some parts of Europe is an exclusive deal between a telco and a phone manufacturer, i.e. what Apple did with the iPhone.

      In many parts of Europe, you can get great deals once your contract expires. I got a one-year contract with a nice subsidy on my iPhone, and when the year is up I can switch to a so-called "sim only" contract, which offers vastly reduced rates. That is not because of regulation, but because of capitalism and competition.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    35. Re:First Sale My Ass by profplump · · Score: 1

      I'm willing to pay $200 for a phone. More importantly, I already own a compatible phone, and would be perfectly willing to just use that. But even if I bring my own phone, or sign a new contract and continue using an existing phone, I'm still forced to agree to an early termination fee -- exactly what valid purpose does that fee serve?

    36. Re:First Sale My Ass by spire3661 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Your analogy is HORRIBLY flawed. First of all there were a multitude of reasons why the original Xbox was retired early, and the hacking potential was WAY down the list.

      #1 reason why XBOX was retired semi-early is to beat Sony to the market in next-gen.

      #2 the 360 was ALOT easier to hack then the original xbox, jsut flash the DVD drive firmware using a standard sata equipped PC.

      --
      Good-bye
    37. Re:First Sale My Ass by profplump · · Score: 1

      The fact that a business chooses to sell subsidized hardware does *not* give them the right to dictate what I can do with that hardware. They are welcome to conditionally subsidize the hardware, so that if I don't use it like they want they can remove the subsidy -- think early termination fee -- but simply choosing to sell at a lower price should not grant them any additional rights.

    38. Re:First Sale My Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mixed things up
      Americans gave Nukes to Japs
      Rusia gave Alaska to Americans
      (and sputnik etc...)

    39. Re:First Sale My Ass by moose_hp · · Score: 1

      Well, while not "everyone" but, Sony makes eInk e-readers (and i'm pretty happy with my PRS-500), iRex does as well (and they are way more open, you can ssh into the reader and install anything you want IIRC), wiki contains a list of commercially available readers here.

      Why is Kindle 2 winning the eInk reader war? IMHO it was because the free publicity they got from the authors guild.

      --
      DON'T PANIC.
    40. Re:First Sale My Ass by DrLang21 · · Score: 1

      I think you will find that the folks on /. oppose laws that prevent other companies from laying copper in your city, and many would probably oppose many of the restrictions on the use of the electromagnetic spectrum.

      --
      I see the glass as full with a FoS of 2.
    41. Re:First Sale My Ass by geekoid · · Score: 1

      feel? No, we do have the right to do what we want with hardware we buy.

      There s no reason we need to play there made up game becasue they are using a poor business model.

      If I want to buy an XBOX 360 and smash it, that means they cant make money from selling me games. Do they have the right to sue me? force me to buy games anyways?

      IT's stupid.

      There reason they moved to the 360 is because they needed a powerhouse to contend against Sony.

      It's not a tough call at all. I see what they are doing, and they are welcome to use that business model, but don't go boo hooing to the courts when your customers doesn't do what you hoped they would with the hardware they bought.

      Device existed before this model, and they would continue to exist without this model.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    42. Re:First Sale My Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right. Just look at what communist Russia gave us.

      - Nukes

      - Tetris

      - ?

      profit!

    43. Re:First Sale My Ass by linzeal · · Score: 1

      Lol, so what? In a year or two because they locked down their device everyone is going to be going out and buying whatever ebook reader out there that has no DRM. Hell, my Sony Ebook reader reads PDF natively.

    44. Re:First Sale My Ass by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Interesting

      >>>even relatively intelligent people only have 24 hours a day in which to make decisions.... This is why we need explicit market regulation

      "People are ignorant" is a poor excuse to turn-over the markets to politicians. Politicians are no better at making decisions that the average person - probably less so, because politicians don't give a damn about us; they merely pretend to do so. I can run my OWN life far better than same corrupt suit in D.C.

      Anyone who would give up essential liberty for temporary cellphone bargains, deserve neither. A better solution is to DO RESEARCH prior to purchase, in order to eliminate ignorance as much as possible. I have a cellphone that has no contract commitment whatsoever, because my company prefers to focus on keeping customers through service, rather than chaining them down. I am contract-free and I did it *by myself* rather than rely on a politician.

      If I can do it, run my own life, so too can all other Americans. They only need to put-in the effort. It's called personal maturity & adult responsibility.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    45. Re:First Sale My Ass by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>mine doesn't say that Russians invented nukes

      Actually the Russians did invent nukes - independently through their own ingenuity. And yes they did give them away - to Eastern European countries and later to Cuba. They may have shared nukes with China too, but I'm not sure about that.

      >>>Where I live (e.g. Denmark) I'm pretty happy with the current public services, health care, free education, etc...

      Where I live (e.g. U.S.) it pretty much all sucks. Government schools turn-out idiots who often score dead-last compared to other countries, Medicare/Medicaid drives-up costs as hospitals view these programs as blank checks to charge whatever they want, government roads are falling to pieces since the highway fund is bankrupt, ditto the retirement program called social security, and the government mail system is slow, inefficient, and expensive. About the only organization that works well is the Tax Bureau. Yay.

      IMHO the flaw is monopoly - there's no incentive for these various government organizations to improve, because even if they do a lousy job, they still get your money - "Yes we failed to teach your students. Tough. I'm a tenured high school principal and can't be fired for such trivialities."

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    46. Re:First Sale My Ass by EchaniDrgn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Either paying a whole lot more (than the currently subsized price of the Kindle) or not having the option to buy it at all, since Amazon would have realized up front that developing it wasn't going to be profitable.

      For some reason I didn't think that $299.00 was much more than $359.00, but I'm no economist.

      Now, if you're including the lifetime service to Sprint then yeah, I can see some bit of a savings, but if they're charging you for the book download in the first place...

    47. Re:First Sale My Ass by commodore64_love · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >>>Remember the XBOX? It was hacked wide open and no longer was profitable (Technically it was never profitable) so they abandoned it and went with the xbox360, which has been much more resistant to hacking.

      Bzzzz.

      Every five-to-six years, the old console is phased-out and a new console introduced. That's the natural cycle that has evolved in videogaming and had nothing to do with hacking. Take the Gamecube as example: It was locked-down and essentially pirate-proof but Nintendo still got rid of it and introduced the new Wii. It was simply time to start the new 2006-2011 generation.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    48. Re:First Sale My Ass by taucross · · Score: 0

      Now bear in mind whatever subsidization of initial costs they required had already been covered. I had made no indication that I wanted to stop my service with them, and fully expected to continue my service indefinitely, but here they were trying to pressure me into a commitment with absolutely no benefit to myself.

      Sounds like my last girlfriend.

      --
      "In the absence of the ability to establish the attribute of truth they tried to establish the noble attributes."
    49. Re:First Sale My Ass by QuoteMstr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A better solution is to DO RESEARCH prior to purchase, in order to eliminate ignorance as much as possible.

      You know damn well that most people won't do research no matter how much you yell at them. You know damn well cell phone companies will exploit slick marketing to make people make decisions that aren't in their own interests. You can't change this. It's human nature. Even the best of us are sometimes fooled. We only have 24 hours in each day, and I for one don't want to spend my life doing market research.

      I am contract-free and I did it *by myself* rather than rely on a politician.

      I am too, but I recognize most people won't do the same.

      Now for the meat:

      "People are ignorant" is a poor excuse to turn-over the markets to politicians.

      It's physically impossible for even a very intelligent person to perform the research he needs to make fully-informed decisions in every instance, and so capitalism's underlying assumptions are invalidated. I'm not proposing to put politicians "in charge" of the market. That's a strawman. What politicans can do is:

      • Enact regulations to make the market more transparent. By keeping the market honest, open, and free of collusion, we can approximate what we'd see in a true free market with omniscient supermen participating in it.
      • Make the market take into accounts its externalities. Pollution credits are a perfect example of this principle, and have been very effective.

      Regulation makes the market work better. Regulation interferes with the markets like oil interferes with an engine. Both will grind to a halt and break down if you leave them alone.

    50. Re:First Sale My Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But you pointed out the difference yourself; In the case of the fireworks, the only ethical restrictions are those that prevent you from infringing on the free actions of another (other's property, life and limb, etc.). The kindle is your property. You could state that users are committing fraud if they purchase it and do not adhere to the conditions of purchase, but the question is whether those conditions can be imposed on the purchase transaction in the first place. A contract cannot be ethically enforced which deprives you of inalienable rights, ones such as Shylock's in The Merchant of Venice.

    51. Re:First Sale My Ass by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 1

      FWIW, Sprint has, on numerous occasions, allowed me to move my service onto a used phone (ebay/craigslist) without signing a new contract.

    52. Re:First Sale My Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nah, Vodka and furry hats predate communist russia ;)

    53. Re:First Sale My Ass by LandDolphin · · Score: 1

      "Yes we failed to teach your students. Tough. I'm a tenured high school principal and can't be fired for such trivialities."

      If the parents were actually involved in their child's education, they wouldn't be in that situation.

      Insert leading/horse/water/drinking quote here.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    54. Re:First Sale My Ass by LandDolphin · · Score: 1

      SPAM is 100% American (and Gross)

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    55. Re:First Sale My Ass by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      Not profitable? Ha. I bought a bookreader with a screen identical to the Kindle from http://www.bookeen.com/. The difference? My Cybook Gen3 doesn't have 3G. It cost exactly the same as the Kindle. So selling the device at that pricepoint is very definitely profitable. Amazon just thought it would be a good idea to provide direct access to their own bookstore online, and to do that they had to cut a deal with Sprint. Having done so, they want to lock in their buyers. Me? I load anything I want on my Cybook, from anywhere I want. It reads PDF natively, too. Drag PDF, drop into Cybook books directory. Done. I think I got the better deal.

      The reason either device is so incredibly expensive is E-Ink's patents on making the display. They're the ones with the financial motive for advancement. What Amazon is doing sure as hell isn't helping.

    56. Re:First Sale My Ass by tkrotchko · · Score: 1

      "Once my initial contract expired, I started getting frequent calls from VZW which went something like:"

      Same thing happened to me last summer. We had 3 phones with Verizon wireless, and they called. They said, "if you agree to a new 2 year deal [$120/month on average], then we'll give you $50 towards a new phone".

      I said "So in return for $2400, you offer me $50 *off*? One time?

      They were taken aback. As if their offer was so generous, no one had ever told them no

      "well, sir, this gives you not just that great verizon service, but you could use that money towards a new phone!"

      I told them "Not good enough. I want all 3 phones on my account with the same plans for $60/month"

      "We're not authorized to do that"

      "goodbye"

      Business is too good if all you're willing to give as a discount is 2% to a multi-year customer. They have high customer acquisition costs, but they're unwilling to give customers any kind of real break to renew.

      They're either geniuses or stupid. I can't tell which. But they certainly aren't getting $120/month from me anymore. So I have my own theory.

      --
      You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
    57. Re:First Sale My Ass by tkrotchko · · Score: 1

      "Just like you feel you have the right to do whatever you want to stuff you buy, businesses feel that they have the right to protect their business model."

      I agree with you 100%.

      And where we might differ is that I don't see the government having any role in this equation, either through laws, enforcement, or anything. MS is on their own. So is the customer. May the better hacker win.

      --
      You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
    58. Re:First Sale My Ass by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Exactly.

      Cellphone contracts are nothing more than scams to lock you in because they know you will be very unhappy with their service.

      Contracts are a way to ensure they do NOT have to improve their service.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    59. Re:First Sale My Ass by lordofthechia · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Regulation makes the market work better.

      See the standard form that credit card companies have to include with any offer (which displays in a neat table your APR, Yearly Fee, Penalty APR, etc). Why can't we have something like that for phone service? A neat table, monthly plan, minutes, termination fee, contract length, etc.

      Now as has been pointed out by several posters and Consumer Reports, despite the fact that a contract rate is supposed to subsidize the cost of a handset:
      1) providers won't let you buy your own phone and sign up w/o a contract and/or at a lower rate
      2) The rate doesn't change at the end of the contract period.
      3) Despite owning the phone, the consumer is unable to (or has to jump through hoops) in order to use the phone with a different provider (should the other provider use the same network technology).

      So essentially the providers are bundling the sale of a handset with your service, just as many computer companies would bundle Windows with the sale of every PC. Now imagine if other businesses started doing this? Comcast requiring you buy a new cable modem each year (or pay for it just the same). This is a wasteful and unfair practice.

      One last thing, though there is a cost for signing up a new customer (which some companies have used as an excuse for requiring contracts of all customers) this is what the activation fee should take care of.

      --
      Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
    60. Re:First Sale My Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      > Remember the XBOX? It was hacked wide open and no longer was profitable (Technically it was never profitable) so they abandoned it and went with the xbox360, which has been much more resistant to hacking.

      Funny, I thought they released it because the old X-Box wouldn't be able to compete with the Wii and PS3...

      Also, I don't think the lack of profit had much to do with how hackable it was. When I compare my X-Box game collection to my GameCube and PS2 game collections... there's not much for the X-Box. I'm probably ~ 90% ps2, 9% gc and 1% xbox. The problem MS had was they weren't seen as a desirable platform for a lot of the big games. (They weren't Japanese, and they were a johnny-come-lately to the console world.) With the 360, MS had two things going.

      1. MS proved by taking a beating with the original xbox and producing another machine, that they were COMMITTED. MS set themselves apart from the makers of the CD-I and 3DO. (Of course Tiger matched them with both the Game.Com and Game.Com Color and SNK with the Neo Geo and Neo Geo Pocket Color, but those second tries didn't have anywhere near the bankroll MS tossed at the 360.)

      2. Sony priced themselves too high. Sure, it might be "worth" it, but a $50 steak at a REALLY good steakhouse might be worth it too. Guess how many times a typical person visits such a steakhouse compared to a lower-end chain that still has a delicious steak, but at a price where you can go again and again? This tossed business to MS and Nintendo. Nintendo has proprietary discs sometimes considered as a scam to get money for the pressing as well as licensing, double-dipping. Nintendo also has an iffy controller. Some love it, some hate it, but it's not best for all games, and you're seriously pressured to use it. (Like the accursed touch screen on the DS. Great for Touch Detective, WTF were they thinking on Zelda?)

      MS *does* have the right to put in barriers to unlocking the machine. They do NOT have the right (ethically) to keep you from opening the machine. With the DMCA they may have a legal right to do so. If they're dumb enough to make a business model based on having to make up for an initial loss, with hardware that's an attractive nuisance hundreds of hackers will want to tear open, they're being silly. Nintendo can make a profit off game consoles, with games as icing. MS and Sony can too. Not doing so is a calculated risk. The DS is from what I've heard hacked open. I haven't heard too much whining about how unprofitable it is.

      MS can do a few things, like add a clickthrough agreement to a license. Still, if you open it up and start disassembling and haven't turned it on and agreed to anything, you're ok.

      As for feeling they have a "right" to continue their business model, they have the right to attempt continuing it. The consumer has the right to decline to buy, to buy and hack (in a legal way) or buy and not hack. Consider the Cuecat barcode scanner. If you didn't ask for one, but got one in the mail, why shouldn't you be allowed to use it for other purposes? Once sent through the mail it's a gift, if it wasn't that would mean they could send it to you and request it back anytime. If they weren't supplying return postage, that means they get to saddle you with debt (not much for 1 cuecat, but if they kept sending them) w/o any say on your part. There is a precedent for this sort of harassment being illegal in the banning of spam faxes (which waste toner and paper).

      What if a fad came out such as the old mac as fishbowl using an 360? Or even if they used it JUST for what it does from the box... If it became cool to buy a 360 for use as a DVD player, this would cost MS horribly as the loss on each one isn't recouped. Should people be forbidden from buying 360s unless they commit to buy at least X games? You can't force a bundle, that's been ruled illegal. (Although GameStop always seem to find a way around it as new consoles are released.)

      As for the fireworks, regulation of those is logical,

    61. Re:First Sale My Ass by ChaosDiscord · · Score: 1

      Microsoft abandoned the Xbox because it was hacked? Bwahahahahaha. They abandoned it because consoles have limited lifespans, beyond which consumers expect higher quality graphics. The PS3 was imminent and and Microsoft had to step up with a new machine or bow out of the market. By moving slightly faster than Sony to release the next generation system, Microsoft took the lead in sales. That the original Xbox was hacked was completely irrelevant to their decision to release the 360. (It probably might have influenced the decision to make the anti-hacking measures even stronger, but that's pretty much what happens at every console generation shift.)

      "I understand both sides of the argument. It's a tough call."

      No. No it's not. Businesses have no inherent legal or moral right to money on ongoing sales. If they didn't want me to muck about with it, instead of selling it to me, they should have had me sign a contract up front. I didn't sign a contract when I bought my Xbox 360, and I'm betting the Kindle doesn't have one either. (I imagine you might face a contract to buy electronic books, but that's a separate transaction.) Presenting a user with a contract after the item is paid for and delivered is illegal. (Thanks to abuse of copyright law, there is some support for this immoral trickery for software. But it has never been supported for physical things.)

      This is exactly why some of us get so angry about being sloppy about copyright law. You actually think businesses have some sort valid claim on stuff they were paid for and delivered. No, no, a thousand times no.

    62. Re:First Sale My Ass by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Actually they stole a great deal of technology from the US to build those nukes. A recent book on this, Nuclear Express, details much of the proliferation. Some of it is apparently disputed but it lays out a pretty good case with regards to the Russians having infiltrated the Manhattan Project bigtime.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    63. Re:First Sale My Ass by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>You know damn well that most people won't do research no matter how much you yell at them.

      Then they deserve to get screwed for being lazy. It's just like mortgages - why should I pay ~$1000 extra tax this year (Obama's proposed mortgage bailout bill) to pay for other people's homes? They made stupid choices; it's their problem not mine. If they can't keep up with the cost, they can sell the house and move into an apartment.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    64. Re:First Sale My Ass by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>Regulation makes the market work better. Regulation interferes with the markets like oil interferes with an engine.

      I disagree. I think regulation is like pouring sand into your engine. Sure the engine will keep running, but the added friction will slow the engine, rob power, and waste energy/money.

      >>>It's physically impossible for even a very intelligent person to perform the research he needs to make fully-informed decisions in every instance

      Yes. And in those cases, it oftentimes is better to *not act* until you have all the information. Don't sign the contract - wait a few weeks so you can research other companies and make a slow, careful decision. That's what I did when I said "let me think about it" to a Verizon salesman trying to lock me into a 2 year contract, and after doing some google research found a contract-free company.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    65. Re:First Sale My Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IMHO the flaw is monopoly - there's no incentive for these various government organizations to improve, because even if they do a lousy job, they still get your money

      We used to have a monopoly state owned rail company - British Rail. Everyone moaned about how lousy it was. The Conservative government broke it up and introduced competition for multiple rail franchises. Now the taxpayer pays twice the subsidy they did when it was state owned, the fares increase above inflation every year and people still moan about how lousy it is.
      The privatised water, gas and electricity companies rip us off constantly and run rings around the regulators.
      We were better off when they were all state owned monopolies.

    66. Re:First Sale My Ass by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      FWIW, Sprint has, on numerous occasions, allowed me to move my service onto a used phone (ebay/craigslist) without signing a new contract.

      So what? Any of them will let you do that. Will Sprint let you sign up as a new customer with a cragslist phone and not sign a contract?

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    67. Re:First Sale My Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, people really did buy Divx players.

    68. Re:First Sale My Ass by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 1

      Damn right! If "the people" want to own the things that they buy, then they should just move to Soviet Russia!

      --
      Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
    69. Re:First Sale My Ass by JakartaDean · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the anecdote. It illuminates why laissez-faire capitalism fails again and again: market capitalism works flawlessly in theory. This theory, however, rests on the assumption that all market participants are rational actors, and that these participants have access to all the information they need. This assumption does not hold in real life.

      I'm not an economist, but I think what you're trying to say is that in theory "perfect" markets work flawlessly. A perfect market is based on the idea of many suppliers and buyers, so that no one firm or person, or small group, can set the price. The problem is that there are very few of these in reality, so regulations have been developed to prevent any buyer(s) or seller(s) getting too pushy and setting an "unfair" price.

      I'm not disagreeing with the need for regulation in general, but I think getting the regulation right requires understanding why it is needed in the first place -- the oligopoly of current suppliers of service. Where I live in Indonesia, there are about eight suppliers (three big ones), different kinds of service (although the market is probably 90% prepaid), all phones are bought at one of the hundred thousand (guess) of phone stores, and prices are way low. There are no -- zero -- contracts or "plans". I think it costs a few cents a minute local talk, and 0.25 cents for a text message.

      So while I disagree with your analysis to some extent, the two data points of USA and Indonesia do suggest that the perfect market does offer lower prices. How to regulate better competition in the USA is the question, and it seems the solution hasn't been introduced yet, on the basis of all the complaints I hear.

      --
      The subject who is truly loyal to the Chief Magistrate will neither advise nor submit to arbitrary measures (Junius)
    70. Re:First Sale My Ass by qoncept · · Score: 1

      I didn't say they have the right to or should be doing anything. I said if they weren't locking you in to buying theircontent, they wouldn't selling you the hardware for the price you pay now, if at all.

      --
      Whale
    71. Re:First Sale My Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for the anecdote. It illuminates why laissez-faire capitalism fails again and again: market capitalism works flawlessly in theory. This theory, however, rests on the assumption that all market participants are rational actors, and that these participants have access to all the information they need. This assumption does not hold in real life.

      No this is not the reason it fails. It is not about access to information, it is about relative power. Free market works on the assumption that all actors have equal power so that you can refuse or accept a service/product on your own terms or find someone else that is willing to offer it (for reasonable terms of course).

      But the telephone carrier market is *not a free market*.
      It's a strictly controlled monopoly granted by the state (frequencies), and treating it like a free market makes no sense whatsoever because the carriers have relatively infinite power compared to 99% of customers.
      The other 1% is companies big enough that a contract is a matter of several millions so you have *slightly* more leverage, and even then not so much.

      The funny thing is that it would be relatively easy to fix the situation, all you need to do is clearly separate the carrier business form the service provider business.

      You are either a carrier and can sell only to service provider, or you are a service provider and cannot do carrier grade business. Because service providers are not limited by spectrum licenses there can be as many of them as the market can sustain and they would have an immensely bigger contractual power with carriers (they can change carriers for all their customers if carriers are not reasonable). At the same time because end users have a much bigger choice of service providers they too have a much greater contractual power as they can easily switch to another and probably have the same carrier underneath (== same reception etc..)

      (This is true for *any* utility, but much easier with communication services (cable, cell, POTS..) then, say, electricity or gas)

      But do you think any government will ever do that ? Break the monopolies? OMG no, never, can't have a real free market, it would be, well, free!!

    72. Re:First Sale My Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It illuminates why laissez-faire capitalism fails again and again: market capitalism works flawlessly in theory."

      How does a regulated, limited bandwidth marketplace sold to a few bidders equate to a laissze-faire capitalism?

      It does not.

      Also, why should those who have the time, money, and/or smarts pay for the stupidity of the herd and thus be limited by such stupid regulations? I know people who have moved to no contract carriers and pay as you go and are *very* happy. Even within the same carriers, there are often different plans and no contract setups. Isn't Boost Mobile currently advertising such a plan now? (I don't know Boost but even if they have crappy coverage, the point is, if more people used them, they could expand coverage.)

      btw, I moved carriers when my previous carrier pissed me off (then AT&T Wireless). My current carrier pisses me off sometimes, but at least they try to keep me informed of changes (T-Mobile).

      T-Mobile isn't perfect, they are okay, their frequency pickup sucks bigtime, esp. in cities. But if the bandwidth market was opened up, and people *still* had problems, then I'd agree with you. As it is, for the few carriers and limited marketplace, we still have decent choice.

      Enter WiMax. Enter that other tech coming alongside it. Seems the US marketplace is getting better and better in my book, which is the point of capitalism. Not the end all, be all that you want immediately, sure, but without regulation, we would have gotten cell phones in the late 60s instead of their takeoff in the late 90s.

      Everytime I read anti-capitalism pro-over-regulation, I can't feel the person writing it is stupid and lazy that they depend on the government to clean their ass.

    73. Re:First Sale My Ass by Eil · · Score: 1

      You mean like laws that prevent shoplifting? What about laws that prevent other cable companys laying copper in your city? What about the laws that prevent people from broadcasting on any frequency? Do you see? I can't think of a single business model that would survive if there were no rules at all.

      I said artificially. Ask random people whether it's wrong to shoplift, or to take or use something that doesn't belong to them. they'll say yes every time. Ask people whether it's wrong to take apart an appliance that you own to see how it works or make it work better and they'll say no. I'm not advocating anarchy here, I'm saying that the DMCA is a dumb law that discourages curiosity, research, communication, and the basic geek instinct all because a handful of companies got a bunch of politicians to believe that their profits were more important than citizens' rights.

    74. Re:First Sale My Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FWIW, every time my Sprint contract has expired, I usually start receiving offers (with my regular bill) for a rebate to renew a contract, typically $75 to $100. I don't renew until that offer is made.

      - T

    75. Re:First Sale My Ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good. I want that engine to grind to a halt because it means I'm getting screwed less by Corporate America.

  5. Link by sakdoctor · · Score: 2, Funny

    Post the link here otherwise I can't make an informed opinion.

    1. Re:Link by Crazy+Man+on+Fire · · Score: 1

      You must be new here...

    2. Re:Link by eleuthero · · Score: 1

      on Slashdot, we don't decide anything--everything gets discussed ad infinitum ad nauseum and then archived when people get tired of clicking "more" to mod or read others' comments.

  6. Lets boycott the thing I was never gona buy! by Kenja · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The number of books I would have to buy to make the Kindle worth buying makes me sad. Its a nifty device, but there's no way I'd ever get one.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    1. Re:Lets boycott the thing I was never gona buy! by geminidomino · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I thought the same thing about ebook readers, but then I enrolled in an online degree program (from a real school). Since it's CS, most of the professors are rather clueful and the lecture notes (which tend to be even more complete than the textbooks) are all in PDFs.

      Not having to have my laptop with me at all times to study made it worth it to get a PRS-505 (and it's a tax deduction since there's nothing else on it!)

      Fuck the Kindle though.

    2. Re:Lets boycott the thing I was never gona buy! by jgtg32a · · Score: 1

      That's why I get my books from TPB, it allows me to get to that point much quicker, after 3 months I'm 2/3 of the way there.

      I also read nearly nonstop after I got my reader.

    3. Re:Lets boycott the thing I was never gona buy! by Kenja · · Score: 1

      Difference is that eBook readers are free if you have a cell phone, pda, computer, etc.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    4. Re:Lets boycott the thing I was never gona buy! by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Tried that, on an old clie, my moto phone, etc... They couldn't handle the diagrams, and I was trying to actively REMOVE the computer from the equation.

      Not saying it's right for everybody. Just saying it paid for itself when I got to skip the textbooks for 2 classes.

    5. Re:Lets boycott the thing I was never gona buy! by Locke2005 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Fuck the Kindle though. Umm... it is pretty much the wrong shape to make that use of it even remotely possible. Trust me, I've tried! And besides which, if I actually did find a way to follow your suggestion, Amazon would quickly issue a take down notice prohibiting me from making such creative use of the Kindle.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    6. Re:Lets boycott the thing I was never gona buy! by rthille · · Score: 1

      I thought about buying the kindle2 after I saw the XKCD comic on using it as a free anywhere in the US 3G web-browser...then I realized I don't need one of those. If I was still bike touring a lot, it'd be great for checking email and maps and keeping in touch, but I don't have time for that now. Now when I travel I tend to drive or fly, and take my MacBook.

      --
      Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
    7. Re:Lets boycott the thing I was never gona buy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kindle's not for books you buy. It'll never be cost effective if you have to pay for all the books too. It's for books you get from Gutenberg. Grow a little by reading more great works of literature. And also some old popular crap.

      If they won't let you get books from Gutenberg, though, then I agree, I can't see a reason to get one.

    8. Re:Lets boycott the thing I was never gona buy! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      The number of books I would have to buy to make the Kindle worth buying makes me sad.

      At this moment, price vs savings is definitely not a good argument for any eInk-based reader on the market. It is still an emerging technology, and anyone who buys the gadget is an early adopter, and pays as such. That said, the convenience of the thing may well be worth the price for some (it was for me - after a year of having a Hanlin Jinke, and fighting for it with my wife too often, we've got a Sony PRS-505 for a second reader; I definitely do not consider any of that money wasted).

    9. Re:Lets boycott the thing I was never gona buy! by digitalhermit · · Score: 1

      Indeed. I can see the convenience of the thing. I do like to read several books during the week, putting each down when I reach my tolerance level.

      If all books for the Kindle were $10 (similar to the one price of iTunes) then it would be worthwhile to me, providing that computer books were available. I spend, on average, about $50/month on two to three books.

      It would be nice to have my entire computer book collection available (as I do on my laptop). The space savings in my library alone would be awesome.

      But the biggest downside is that I can't lend out the books anymore. Of the six books I bought in the past couple months, four of them are now on loan to friends.

    10. Re:Lets boycott the thing I was never gona buy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kirk Johnson, is that you?

    11. Re:Lets boycott the thing I was never gona buy! by LandDolphin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Of the six books I bought in the past couple months, four of them are now on loan to friends.

      Stealing food from the Authors... Tisk Tisk Tisk... Those were obviously four sales that were going to happen that you took away from them.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    12. Re:Lets boycott the thing I was never gona buy! by dbc · · Score: 1

      Well, that depends on how you do the math. My wife figured the cost per square foot of our house in Silicon Valley, and calculated how much money it was costing her to store books. She cleaned out her bookshelves of time sensitive reference material and other books of zero sentimental value. This got several square feet of office space back, and made it much more convenient to read anything she wants when travelling.

      Now, if volume and weight don't matter in your universe, it's harder to justify a Kindle. But it her universe they matter enough for the Kindle to make economic sense.

    13. Re:Lets boycott the thing I was never gona buy! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...Since it's CS, most of the professors are rather clueful and the lecture notes (which tend to be even more complete than the textbooks) are all in PDFs.

      Anything that can be printed can be made into a pdf. A 'clueful' professor is not necessary. ps2pdf will work just fine (or openoffice, or buying adobe acrobat professional, or ...).

    14. Re:Lets boycott the thing I was never gona buy! by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      All of the books I've bought have been $10 or less - often just $5-6. the one book I wanted that was above $10 was just out, waited a week and got it for $10. Yes, the DRM sux however it can be stripped off with some creative searching - something I'll be attempting to do soon. No you don't save piles of money on books with the Kindle but I do spend less on books than I would buying them at my bookstore or COSTCO and I can carry quite a few of them around without hassle and read them in any light that would be suitable for a normal book. Works for me, I'm happy with the thing.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    15. Re:Lets boycott the thing I was never gona buy! by JSWolf42 · · Score: 1

      The number of books I would have to buy to make the Kindle worth buying makes me sad. Its a nifty device, but there's no way I'd ever get one.

      I've figured that if you took hardcover books at $26.00 and gave them all a 40% discount and added the MA 5% sales take vs. Amazon's $9.99 eBook editions, it would take 67 eBooks to break even on the Kindle 2.

    16. Re:Lets boycott the thing I was never gona buy! by Xerolooper · · Score: 1

      Indeed. I can see the convenience of the thing. I do like to read several books during the week, putting each down when I reach my tolerance level.

      If all books for the Kindle were $10 (similar to the one price of iTunes) then it would be worthwhile to me, providing that computer books were available. I spend, on average, about $50/month on two to three books.

      It would be nice to have my entire computer book collection available (as I do on my laptop). The space savings in my library alone would be awesome.

      But the biggest downside is that I can't lend out the books anymore. Of the six books I bought in the past couple months, four of them are now on loan to friends.

      You could always lend them your kindle.

      --
      "The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget." -Thomas Szasz
  7. Huh? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    I have been converting PDF's since i got my kindle I.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Huh? by canajin56 · · Score: 4, Informative

      This has nothing to do with loading unprotected DRM-free content onto your Kindle. Kindle can load Amazons proprietary DRM'd format, MOBI format, and .txt. Anything else you have to ask Amazon to please convert it to their secret format. However, MOBI files can be DRM'd. The Kindle can read DRM'd MOBI files. However, only if they were encrypted with its public key! This script allows you to view your Kindle's MOBI ID, so you can give it to an eBook service and buy a DRM'd eBook from them that will work on your Kindle. This is very bad for Amazon, as it means you can buy eBook from somebody who isn't Amazon!

      --
      ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
    2. Re:Huh? by QuoteMstr · · Score: 3, Informative

      IANAcryptographer, but public key cryptography is a no-brainer for this scenario. Amazon should have created an RSA keypair for each kindle sold. Amazon would keep the private key and put the public key on the Kindle. When selling an E-Book, Amazon would just encrypt the Mobi file with its private key. That way, it wouldn't matter if some third party obtained the RSA public key for a specific kindle --- all he could do with it pound sand, since Amazon would keep the private keys secure and internal.

      Granted, I think the DRM is vile. But I can't understand why Amazon also implemented DRM so poorly.

      (If you want to be able to let multiple people read the same Mobi file, do this: generate a random symmetric cypher key (K) and encrypt the E-Book with it, resulting in ciphertext B. For each Kindle you'd like to be able to read the E-Book, let its key be M1, M2, and so on. The file you send out contains K itself encrypted with M1, then K encrypted with M2, K encrypted with M3, etc., and then finally B. A kindle would try all the keys in the E-Book file and just use the first one that successfully decrypted B.)

    3. Re:Huh? by Knara · · Score: 1

      Probably the same reason that the most popular Office 2007 torrent on TPB has exactly two serials included with it, neither of which has been blacklisted by MS.

      One can theorize as to why, but i personally suspect its a mixture of "getting people used to using it as a standard, in order to get paying customers down the road" and there being some ridiculously long time to achieve an acceptable ROI after spending tons of time implementing actually useful and comprehensive DRM.

      It just keeps the low-techs from swapping ala Napster. Nothing is going to keep the tech-enabled population from circumventing it with the right amount of effort.

    4. Re:Huh? by dlgeek · · Score: 1

      IANAcryptographer, but public key cryptography is a no-brainer for this scenario. Amazon should have created an RSA keypair for each kindle sold. Amazon would keep the private key and put the public key on the Kindle. When selling an E-Book, Amazon would just encrypt the Mobi file with its private key. That way, it wouldn't matter if some third party obtained the RSA public key for a specific kindle --- all he could do with it pound sand, since Amazon would keep the private keys secure and internal.

      And if the e-book is encrypted using RSA and the device doesn't have the private key, how is it supposed to decrypt it? If Amazon is keeping the private key, you can only do signing, in which case you only need one pair for all Kindle's anyway.

    5. Re:Huh? by QuoteMstr · · Score: 1

      What I meant was that for each device, Amazon would generate a key pair. The device would ship with the decryption key, and Amazon would keep the encryption key. What you call public and private can get confused in this context. :-)

    6. Re:Huh? by dlgeek · · Score: 1

      With RSA, the encryption key is not meant to be kept secure - it's of the form (e,n) where e is usually a common value like 3 or 7 or a few others, and the same for all keys and n is unique, but a part of the private key, which is (d,n). Thus, given the private key, (d,n), it'd be easy to guess e, assuming a standard implementation.

    7. Re:Huh? by GMFTatsujin · · Score: 1

      I appreciate that you think DRM is vile.

      So please, stop instructing them on how to do it right. Broken DRM is critical to combating all DRM.

    8. Re:Huh? by QuoteMstr · · Score: 1

      Hrm. I didn't realize the public key was that weak. Thanks for informing me.

      In that case, the simpler and more conventional thing to do would be for Amazon to just sign all ebooks, and for the Kindle to verify Amazon's signature before decrypting an E-Book.

    9. Re:Huh? by dlgeek · · Score: 1

      It can be more secure, but usually isn't. That's because it's intended to be public. The signing thing works though it requires 2 sets of keys (though only one is unique to each kindle)

    10. Re:Huh? by Joe+U · · Score: 1

      Probably the same reason that the most popular Office 2007 torrent on TPB has exactly two serials included with it, neither of which has been blacklisted by MS.

      One can theorize as to why, but i personally suspect it's...

      ...because Office 2007 sp2 has not been released yet?

      Microsoft only blacklists office serials during service packs.

    11. Re:Huh? by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      You are uninformed. I have converted quite a few PDF for use on my Kindle and I have yet to use their service to do so. there are tools to do this conversion and others without using anything Amazon produces. There are also tools to strip the crypto'd DRM.

      That said, yeah your exactly right as to what this script does. that ID is also needed to strip the DRM with other nifty scripts - that for some reason they haven't tried to take-down lol.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    12. Re:Huh? by Knara · · Score: 1

      I can only imagine that this torrent happened before sp1, given the number of seeds and peers, but you could be right.

  8. More useful? To whom? by Kazoo+the+Clown · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not about the Kindle's usefullness to the user, it's about the Kindle's usefullnes to amazon. The Kindle is not where Amazon makes their money, it's on the sale of the ebooks-- if people are buying them from elsewhere, Amazon is not getting their profit, and in fact it may be costing them money-- the Kindle is essentially subsidised by their ebooks.

  9. Have to hand it to Amazon by elrous0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It takes a lot of balls to ask someone to pay almost $400 for the privilege of buying stuff exclusively from you, and then tell them that modifying the software to do anything BUT buy stuff from you is illegal.

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Have to hand it to Amazon by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Funny

      In Amazon's case, they don't actually have a lot of balls, because inventory is costly; but their highly optimized JIT supply chain management practices apparently allow them to order the balls they need, when they need them, on very short notice.

    2. Re:Have to hand it to Amazon by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      Kind of like the male version of the gray witches from the tale of Perseus.

    3. Re:Have to hand it to Amazon by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      What software of theirs exactly does this modify? This software obtains an ID number for the specific device - that's all. that ID is used as part of the crypto and having it allows you to do interesting things but it hardly modifies their software in any way.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  10. Ironically? by seanadams.com · · Score: 1

    Ironically, the purpose of the script is to make the Kindle more useful to its users."

    I'm sure that their motive has nothing to do with whether it makes the kindle "more useful". This threatens their market for the books.

    I must say I had been quite pleased with my Kindle and generally impressed with Amazon... until just now. Perhaps I'll return it.

    1. Re:Ironically? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      I'm sure that their motive has nothing to do with whether it makes the kindle "more useful". This threatens their monopoly market for the books.

      You missed a word there. I added it for you.

      That other vendor also allows me to build a shopping cart of books to buy at once, allowing me to build a list of what books are available that I like and thus determine if a Kindle-type device is right for me. Amazon's store only offers One-Click Buy-It-Now links, and the Save For Later links also only appear if you're using a Kindle to access the store. No shopping cart, no wishlists for Kindle Books for those not already locked in. Probably can't even buy a Kindle Book as a gift for another Kindle user.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    2. Re:Ironically? by seanadams.com · · Score: 1

      You missed a word there. I added it for you.

      No I didn't, smartass. Amazon does not have a monopoly on books, and nobody's forcing you to buy their reader.

  11. What a relief... by djupedal · · Score: 1

    Good thing this one didn't involve any numbers - saved T from another embarrassing user-prodded edit.

    1. Re:What a relief... by Binestar · · Score: 1

      If you read the CNN article you would have seen that the 18 people error was there.

      --
      Do you Gentoo!?
  12. Irony? by fastest+fascist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ironically, the purpose of the script is to make the Kindle more useful to its users.

    Nothing ironic about it. Amazon doesn't want the Kindle to be more useful than they've designed it to be. They've spent a great deal of money and effort making this platform, they don't want to have to compete with other people selling books for the thing.

    1. Re:Irony? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real irony of the irony is that the disallowed format - Mobipocket - is owned by Amazon.

  13. Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by sweatyboatman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Ironically, the purpose of the script is to make the Kindle more useful to its users

    From the relatively low cost of the device and the fact that access to Sprint's EV-DO network is free, I would assume that the kindle is a loss-leader for Amazon.

    They're counting on making their money back and more selling the e-books over that network. And that only works if Kindle users get their books exclusively from Amazon. So clearly it's in their interest to limit the Kindle's capabilities in this way.

    Having said that, it's not clear that the DMCA actually applies in this case. Though since the law is written so that large IP holders can bludgeon smaller entities, I'd say it seems to be working perfectly.

    --
    It breaks my pluginses, my precious!
    1. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by QuoteMstr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They're counting on making their money back and more selling the e-books over that network

      If Amazon would like to try this approach, that's fine. But our personal right to do what we will with our property trumps Amazon's business model. If Amazon's business model won't work in a free society, it has no business working at all.

    2. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. Kindle is being sold at a loss.

    3. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Even if it is a loss leader and sold below cost, its still my device to do as i please with it. If they don't like that idea, they should have leased the device, then its not really mine.

      As far as the free network, they could restrict that to allow you to only access amazon ( or anything else they approve of ). It is "their" network after all. ( too bad i cant hack that into my laptop for free access :)

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    4. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by adsl · · Score: 1

      I doubt that Sprint charges Amazon more than a very small amount of money per Kindle activated. After all the minor usage of Sprint's data network, to downloan a book, hardly uses any capacity on the network. When the individual fee is multiplied by the numbers of Kindle it's a nice bonus payment for Sprint to receive. Overall it would not surprise me if Amaon breaks even on the Kindle hardware. That makes it a terrifice deal as a driver of ebook sales for them.

    5. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 2, Interesting

      They're counting on making their money back and more selling the e-books over that network

      If Amazon would like to try this approach, that's fine. But our personal right to do what we will with our property trumps Amazon's business model. If Amazon's business model won't work in a free society, it has no business working at all.

      That's a neat theory. But the courts will likely disagree with you, and they have the police to force your obedience.

      I think most people on /. would be willing to tell the government to get stuffed regarding the DMCA. However, few or none of us are willing to suffer the consequences.

    6. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by Eil · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If Amazon would like to try this approach, that's fine. But our personal right to do what we will with our property trumps Amazon's business model. If Amazon's business model won't work in a free society, it has no business working at all.

      I really wish that were the case, but the congress critters who passed the DMCA, and the president who signed it, didn't see it that way.

    7. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by QuoteMstr · · Score: 1

      I really wish that were the case, but the congress critters who passed the DMCA, and the president who signed it, didn't see it that way.

      Thank you for posting this: it gives me a chance to highlight the difference between our moral code and the law. Any law that attempts to curtail a popular public activity is not only futile, but also doomed to cause a lot of misery while it fails. The DMCA is one such wicked piece of legislation. That said, I don't think the DMCA applied here because nothing is actually circumvented. Amazon is simply using it as a legalistic bully club.

      Unfortunately, some believe in the pernicious notion that things are wrong simply because they are illegal. There are few ideas more harmful to a free society.

    8. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by RobBebop · · Score: 1

      But our personal right to do what we will with our property trumps Amazon's business model.

      When Amazon starts selling Kindles for huge profits like Apple sells iPods, I'd agree. When Amazon sells the Kindle like Sony sells Playstations, I'd disagree.

      I mean, feel free to do whatever you'd like with your Kindle... but Amazon didn't create this thing so they could put their bookselling business on hold.

      Look at it this way: You can have cheap new technology that's locked into a single vendor (the console video game model) or expensive technology that's open to content from multiple streams (the mp3 player model). You CAN'T pick and choose what you like from both categories.

      It's the same way with cell phones. Want the phone for free? Lock-in your access plan for two years. Want your choice of phone and network provider? Be prepared to pay market price for your phone.

      --
      Support the 30 Hour Work Week!!!
    9. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by QuoteMstr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There's already a perfectly good legal mechanism to amortize high up-front costs over a product's lifetime: it's called a lease. If a company wants to restrict how a product is used, the company and the customer can sign a lease agreement. Xerox very successfully used that business model for its early photocopies.

      The problem we're seeing today is that companies want to have their cake and eat it too. They want customers to feel like they're making a purchase, but act like they're under the terms of a lease. That's fucking bullshit, and runs counter to personal property rights at the core of Western civilization.

      In short, if you want to tell me how to use your widget, you'd better lease it to me. No way in hell should you be telling me how to use property I've purchased outright without signing any kind of contract with you.

    10. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by RobBebop · · Score: 1

      Fact is... I don't completely believe my argument either. The Kindle is somewhere in between the "expensive mp3 player" and "cheap video game console" market. I don't think they'd make any money leasing it, though. Leases work better for really expensive general purpose equipment that needs to be replaced every few years. Cars are great for leases. The cell phone business model is essentially very close to a "lease".

      In fairness... it's too expensive for me and I'm not going to buy one. You are free to avoid buying one, as well. We can avoid supporting Amazon together! Though, with all the book readers who will get good use out of the Kindle, I'm still glad it's out there b/c using technology to avoid the dead tree method for the majority of publishing is (IMHO) a generally good thing.

      --
      Support the 30 Hour Work Week!!!
    11. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by langelgjm · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Your analogy to cell phones doesn't work, though, because Kindle users don't (as far as I know) sign any sort of contract with Amazon.

      It would be one thing if you signed a two-year contract with Amazon that guaranteed you the free wireless access so long as you did not purchase books elsewhere. That's not what's happening. Rather, they've tried to use a technical measure to control a related aftermarket, much like Lexmark did with toner cartridges. They're free to do that, but invoking the DMCA to protect the practice shouldn't be allowed, because the issue isn't fundamentally one of copyright.

      Additionally, I still don't understand why U.S. phones are locked and come with a two-year contract. If you've signed the contract and you break it, you have to pay a hefty fee, so why should it matter if you've signed it and decide to use the phone with a different service? Either way, the original company that subsidized the phone gets their money. Is it just to prevent people from fraudulently signing a contract, getting, say, an iPhone, and then disappearing without paying their early termination fee?

      --
      "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    12. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by Mister_Stoopid · · Score: 1

      The script allows you to copy the Kindle's internal 10-digit ID number. The ID number is copyrighted (I assume) and the Kindle does not allow it to be viewed or copied by the user. The script allows you to make a copy of copyrighted information that is protected by an effective technological measure. How does the DMCA not apply? (Not defending Amazon, just pointing out logical holes...)

    13. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by westlake · · Score: 1, Informative
      But our personal right to do what we will with our property trumps Amazon's business model

      No it doesn't.

      Property rights are shaped by Criminal Law. Administrative Law. The Law of Contracts. The Law of Torts.

      There are many, many, things you can own but can't use or modify without restriction.

      If you crack open a sealed appliance your warranty goes poof. If you fry the neighbor's kid when he touches the stainless steel case, you go poof.

      You have a house to rent.

      What you don't have is a Certificate of Occupancy. Because you were too cheap to hire a plumber to fix the drains.

      Your car has a valid registration. It has been inspected. You have a driver's license. You have insurance. Your loan payments are up-to-date.

      Unless all of these things are true than your car is going nowhere but to the impound lot or the repro man.

    14. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by QuoteMstr · · Score: 1

      IANAL.

      If you crack open a sealed appliance your warranty goes poof. If you fry the neighbor's kid when he touches the stainless steel case, you go poof.

      The modification itself isn't illegal. Yes, it may void a separate contractual relationship with a third party, and you may incur some liability if your modifications cause damage. But the modification itself is not illegal.

      You have a house to rent. What you don't have is a Certificate of Occupancy. Because you were too cheap to hire a plumber to fix the drains.

      Building regulations are specific rules enacted by the government for the public good. You could argue the DMCA is like a building regulation for computing, but it lacks the legitimacy building codes have: ignoring building codes can hurt or kill someone. Ignoring the DMCA might... reduce profit? If you want to make an analogy between building codes and the DMCA, imagine if a town required you to use the original contractor for any repairs to the house, and required the house to be rebuild every few decades, again by the original contractor. Like the DMCA, that regulation would be pure corruption that did not benefit the public good. Building codes are morally defensible; the DMCA is not.

      Your car has a valid registration. It has been inspected. You have a driver's license. You have insurance. Your loan payments are up-to-date.

      The same reasoning applies to automobile regulations. It's the public good. The DMCA is illegitimate because it does not serve the public good.

    15. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by bakawolf · · Score: 0

      you can copyright 10 digit numbers now?

    16. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by QuoteMstr · · Score: 1

      The ID number is copyrighted

      An identifying number cannot be copyrighted. Feist vs. Rural Telephone held that a copyrighted work must exhibit some sort of discretion or creativity. An algorithmically-assigned serial number does not satisfy that condition, and therefore is not subject to copyright.

    17. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by mrbene · · Score: 1

      While Kindle may not directly consume trees, I'd put my money on it having a total cradle to grave environmental cost greater than that of the average number of books that it replaces.

      Remember, a book is pretty much biodegradable. Once created, it doesn't consume additional resources. It's manufacture doesn't have very high purity standards - I could theoretically make a book in my backyard and basement.

      A Kindle, however, is pretty much non-biodegradable and likely contains hazardous materials. Once created, it continues to consume resources - electricity has to be made somewhere, and it's not only to keep the kindle alive, but the cost of maintaining the infrastructure to transmit the bits. Since it contains modern computer chips, at least part of its manufacture has stringent purity controls (5 nines plus) that are energy intensive.

      So ya, killing trees? Sometimes better than the alternatives.

    18. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by EllisDees · · Score: 1

      Seriously, this application isn't removing copy protection from anything, so how is it a DMCA violation?

      --
      -- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
    19. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow...I've been thinking this for a long time...but you worded it perfectly. Nicely done.

    20. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      Relatively low cost... Sony sells their for less and is more sophisticated hardware. Nope on this one.

      The Cellular free Ev-DO. now you got something. I am certian this is how they are doing it, or their contract with sprint requires kickbacks from every book sold.

      They are not losing money on the hardware, it's actually at a high price point.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    21. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Pretty sure there's a debug sequence that can be entered to get the Kindle to display this string too...

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    22. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      The ID is used as PART of the process to remove the copy protection from purchased eBooks and it can be used in order to allow the purchase of protected books from other services. Other than that - you got me as to how this is a DMCA violation.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    23. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, y'know something?

      I have a Nokia n800 and FBreader, so I've been mining the Internets for unlocked (read: "illegal") ebooks lately.

      They're not hard to come by, and they're usually about half a meg a piece (except for, y'know, Tom Clancy books :-).

      So they're not straining Sprint EVDO much.

      (And, if it makes anyone feel better, I'm not downloading anything I didn't buy new, usually in hardcover -- it's morally equivalent to buying a used paperback as a reading copy, since neither the publisher nor the author gets any money for that, either.)

    24. Re:Isn't Kindle a Loss-Leader? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ironically, the purpose of the script is to make the Kindle more useful to its users

      From the relatively low cost of the device and the fact that access to Sprint's EV-DO network is free, I would assume that the kindle is a loss-leader for Amazon.

      They're counting on making their money back and more selling the e-books over that network. And that only works if Kindle users get their books exclusively from Amazon. So clearly it's in their interest to limit the Kindle's capabilities in this way.

      Having said that, it's not clear that the DMCA actually applies in this case. Though since the law is written so that large IP holders can bludgeon smaller entities, I'd say it seems to be working perfectly.

      At what point does someone consider $400 for a laptop that can't do anything but read text a low cost device?

  14. Link to Script in Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Link to the author's reverse engineering blog and script description:

    Here.

    Link to just the scripts Here.

    Anonymous to avoid KarmaWhoring(TM)

    1. Re:Link to Script in Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    2. Re:Link to Script in Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anonymous to avoid KarmaWhoring(TM)

      You truly are a good person.

  15. I was considering a Kindle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I was considering buying a Kindle, but I didn't realize it could only read Amazon e-books. With such a restriction and Amazon taking legal steps to enforce it, I see no reason to buy the device.

    I'm kinda glad they did this. It saved me from making a bad purchase.

    1. Re:I was considering a Kindle by SputnikPanic · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just to clarify: You are NOT locked into getting all of your reading material from Amazon. You can basically read ANY non-DRM'ed e-book on Kindle, regardless of where it comes from.

      There are probably a hundred thousand DRM-free books that you can get and load to your Kindle, if not more. Sure, a lot of it is public domain but there are publishers like O'Reilly that are putting e-books out there with no DRM. There are also DRM-free e-books you can get from Tor or Baen, some of which are "no cost" free as well.

      I've got a Kindle and I can count on one hand the number of books I've actually bought on Amazon.

  16. Consoles by jgtg32a · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Isn't this the business model of the Console?

    1. Re:Consoles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the diference is that a PS3 doesn't have to be used exclusively with sony content.

      you can use it as a media player to play downloaded movies on your TV, sony won't say a thing.

    2. Re:Consoles by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      It's the business model of every rat bastard corporation in earth these days. Corporate mottos: "Fuck the end user, he doesn't matter." And they wonder why the world's economy is in shambles!

      Want some peanut butter on crackers?

      BTW and OT but your sig is now out of date, since your comment is 2, insightful. Maybe you should quote Clint Eastwood?

    3. Re:Consoles by hibiki_r · · Score: 1

      Well, on a console you can still get discounts, or go to a used market for games. If the only way to get a game was at full price, without discounts or secondary market, consoles wouldn't be doing so good.

      And that is why electronic only, DRMd purchases will lower sales: People that are unwilling to pay full price are subsidizing sales to people that do pay full price and resell.

    4. Re:Consoles by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Not really, as with all the consoles you can buy games from companies other than the company that manufactured the console. Though I suppose you could argue that all those other companies did have the blessing of the console manufacturer, since you need a license from the manufacturer to produce a game for any of the consoles due to the builtin DRM.

      The closest analogy I can think of is the iPod/iTunes model before everyone started going DRM-free.

  17. here it is by d-r0ck · · Score: 0
    1. Re:here it is by d-r0ck · · Score: 1

      no thats not it thats something else - ignore that post mod it down or wev

    2. Re:here it is by TrentTheThief · · Score: 1

      Thank you.

      Worldwide distribution is now underway.

    3. Re:here it is by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      Thanks. I don't have a Kindle, don't expect to get one, and don't really want one. But I downloaded the scripts, just in case.
      Actually I avoid ebooks after being stabbed by their DRM a few years back, so I only buy real books (same price, usually).

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    4. Re:here it is by TrentTheThief · · Score: 1

      Neither do I.

      I do, however, object to Amazon's actions. If they were selling the Kindle for USD$100 and giving you a break on the cost of books? Sure, I'd probably not object to that DCMA bullshit.

      But at +USD$300 and for the book prices they charge?

      It's time for ebook/audiobook producers to realize that files are not paper. Files do not have the costs inherent in paper publishing (ink, paper, warehousing, shipping, brick and mortar, idiots to sell latte, etc.).

      Sell me an ebook reader that reads what I want to put on it, has no DRM, no fancy bells and whistles, is not tied to _ONE_ vendor, and does allow me to change my library using USB flash drives, USB-to-computer, or on of the various CF formats. Toss all the bullshit and the price will reach the point where sales skyrocket.

      Don't those idiots MBAs and marketers realize how many years people have wanted a usable ebook reader?

      Likewise, audiobook prices are ridiulously out of touch with either reality or their true cost.

      When Audible can afford to sell you 24 audiobooks at once for USD$229, but then sell you a single book for USD$20 or more, there is something wrong.

      Outrageous pricing supports piracy.

      I do buy audiobooks and I do buy paper. I've found that paper books are better for relaxing and that audiobooks are excellent for commuting.

  18. Only affects DRM crippled ebooks by vanyel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I have no problem putting books I buy elsewhere on my kindle, because none of the 200+ ebooks I have are DRM'd. If Amazon wants me to buy books from them, they'll drop DRM too.

  19. Whoops by Hordeking · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From the article:

    The funny part is that many people like me will never have even heard of the script until Amazon made a fuss about it. I found it with a simple google search. Same with how-to instructions.

    Hi, Amazon. I'd like for you to meet a very dear friend of mine, the Streisand Effect. You two are going to really get familiar with each other.

    --
    Disclaimer: The opinions and actions of the US Gov't are in no way representative of those held by this author or its ci
    1. Re:Whoops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep. I'd never heard of it either. Now I've got a copy, in case anyone I know ever wants it. Thanks, Amazon.

    2. Re:Whoops by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Hahahahaha

    3. Re:Whoops by Hordeking · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yep. I'd never heard of it either. Now I've got a copy, in case anyone I know ever wants it. Thanks, Amazon.

      It's a good thing DMCA takedown notices aren't applied with gag orders like "National Security" Letters.

      I got the distinct impression these guys wanted exactly what happened to happen, and wanted to disavow responsibility for legal reasons. "It's not here, so don't ask". Nothing about "don't look elsewhere for it, or ask elsewhere."

      --
      Disclaimer: The opinions and actions of the US Gov't are in no way representative of those held by this author or its ci
    4. Re:Whoops by jw3 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Funny. I have never heard about the Streisand Effect until someone mentioned it on Slashdot :-) j.

    5. Re:Whoops by cparker15 · · Score: 1

      This script would actually make the Kindle worth getting for me! Although, I think I'd end up getting it used out of protest, so Amazon wouldn't end up getting money for mine.

      --
      Have you driven a fnord... lately?

      You must wait a little bit before using this resource; please try again later.

  20. Screw that by Murpster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've only gotten one DMCA take down request, I wrote back and told the copyright owner which of my body parts he could orally copulate with and never heard back. If this web site thought the law was vague and that they were in the right, they should've told Amazon something similar and left the script up. Stupid laws like this only survive because people crumble in the face of silly threats.

    1. Re:Screw that by blueforce · · Score: 1

      Stupid laws like this only survive because people crumble in the face of silly threats.

      Not necessarily, the problem is that Amazon has more money.

      Whether the submitter is in the right or not, Amazon has the resources to bankrupt him while he's trying to prove it. That's the American Way(TM), didn't you know?

      --
      If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
    2. Re:Screw that by KlausBreuer · · Score: 1

      Mhm. You used to be right, but things have changed a bit.

      These days, if you are not a Good Boy and Sit Up And Beg if you're told to do so, they will simply go to your gouverment, and the gouverment will kiss their ass and send some cops to you. These guys will search your apartment and confiscate your computers. It doesn't matter if you're guilty of anything or not.
      If you're lucky, you'll see them again in a year or so. If you're very lucky, this is the only negative thing to happen to you.

      Interested in risking that?

      The time of democracies are over. The industry is running the place, which is why a) like hell you're free and b) the entire economy is collapsing badly.

      --
      Free PC version of ChipWits at http://www.breueronline.de/klaus/chipwits/
    3. Re:Screw that by bentcd · · Score: 1

      If this web site thought the law was vague and that they were in the right, they should've told Amazon something similar and left the script up. Stupid laws like this only survive because people crumble in the face of silly threats.

      If the summary is correct (article, what article?) then they caved not because of the take-down notice or the DMCA as such but because they want to maintain a good relationship with Amazon. I don't know why their relationship with Amazon is important to them but in such a case one will tend to comply with their requests whether they are rooted in law or not. It's just the opportune thing to do.

      --
      sigs are hazardous to your health
    4. Re:Screw that by aceofspades1217 · · Score: 1

      Well the problem is that if you don't immediately take it down than you are infringing and are no lose your ISP protection.

      You have to immediately take it down and than file a counter DMCA to get it put back up. And than if the DMCA was erroneous than technically you can sue them...but its never been done before.

      Yes I know, it sucks, it could have been worse at least they put ISP protection in there...otherwise 50% of the internet would have been sued already >.

  21. Re:Kindle is a piece of shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    You must be new here. (etc)

  22. Exactly by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Sony's got to be kicking themselves, wondering where they went wrong. When they released a portable digital Walkman without native support for .MP3s, people just laughed at them.

    Yet when Amazon releases a portable reader without native support for .PDFs, people trample their own mothers to get in line to buy one.

    Can you imagine the derision people would have for Apple if you had to email your .MP3s to convert@apple.com to put them on your iPod or iPhone?

    1. Re:Exactly by zmollusc · · Score: 1

      I hate pdf. Is there anything that can prise the text out of them yet?

      --
      They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
    2. Re:Exactly by rufus+t+firefly · · Score: 2, Informative

      I hate pdf. Is there anything that can prise the text out of them yet?

      Try PDFTOHTML.

      --
      "He may look like an idiot, and talk like an idiot, but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot." - Duck Soup
    3. Re:Exactly by nahdude812 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Where did you hear that there is no native support for PDF's?

      You can easily load PDF's to the Kindle. Not only can you mount the Kindle as a drive and copy the file that way, but when you buy a kindle, you get a something@kindle.com email address which you can email txt, htm, and pdf files to (as long as it's from a From address which you have whitelisted) - they will load it automatically to your kindle over its built-in 3G connection.

      I loaded several Cory Doctorow books to mine this way.

      This python script creates a hash to make the Kindle think that .mobi files (Secure Mobipocket books, a competitor of Amazon's for this market) are native Amazon books. After you get a hash from kindlepid.py, you run kindlefix.py on your .mobi file with your hash, and it produces a .azw file which the Kindle then thinks is one of its own book formats.

      GP is almost certainly right, I find it unlikely that Amazon makes a profit on the Kindle device itself, they are relying on $10 books to cover the cost of the hardware and the contract with Sprint whereby they give you free 3G access. If you're buying your books elsewhere, Amazon's going to take a loss on the whole shebang, and that's most likely what they're trying to prevent (while counting on the fact that you can't get non-drm'd copies of most books such as in .txt, .pdf, or .htm format).

    4. Re:Exactly by eleuthero · · Score: 1

      Yes, but you won't like the answer. You can buy Adobe Acrobat Pro... between 100-400 dollars depending on your version type, source, etc. Somewhat cheaper programs can be found that are less robust but do something similar (~40 dollars). There's probably a free pdf creator / modder around, but other than cutepdf (which is just a glorified printer), I don't know of one.

    5. Re:Exactly by maynard · · Score: 4, Interesting

      When I read a PDF I need quality image support for interpreting graphs and other types of visual data. The Kindle doesn't come close. Yes, Amazon offers a PDF "conversion" service. In the process, formatting and image support is either lost or horribly mangled.

      Never mind the total lack of touch support for eink annotations makes the thing worthless for serious use. Fine if you want to spend $350 for a device to read novels on the train. But if you want to read technical papers and annotate in math, the Kindle doesn't come close to being a useful device.

      The only thing out there that does meet that need is:

      The IREX Digital Reader 1000:

      https://www.irexshop.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_35&products_id=69

      That is the first device to come on the market which exceeds the eReader feature set available on the Apple's old Newton MP2x00 from 1998.

      Pathetic.

    6. Re:Exactly by SputnikPanic · · Score: 1

      Finally, someone who knows what he's talking about here. And before someone brings up the whole "but Amazon charges you to send your docs to your Kindle!" nonsense, you can also send your docs to whatever@free.kindle.com. Amazon will do whatever format conversion they need to, and then e-mail the docs back to you. You can then copy them to your Kindle via USB, and you didn't get charged a red cent.

      I'll also mention that I think every aspect of Kindle, which is to say both the device itself as well as the books, are loss-leaders at Amazon. Amazon is the one adjusting the e-book prices such that most popular books can be bought for $9.99 or less, not the publishers. Amazon may very well be losing money on the books, too. But they see it as worthwhile losses because they're not only demonstrating that a market for e-books really exists, but they're also very quickly becoming the heavy in the room.

    7. Re:Exactly by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The only thing out there that does meet that need is The IREX Digital Reader 1000:

      This is true, but more so because of its larger screen. Reading PDFs on a 600x800 screen of Kindle is not a good idea regardless of software features.

      Also, iRex costs twice as much as Kindle and other readers with similar screen (Sony, Hanlin).

    8. Re:Exactly by enrevanche · · Score: 3, Informative

      xpdf has a utility you can use called pdftotext

    9. Re:Exactly by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1

      Finally, someone who knows what he's talking about here

      True or false? The Kindle can read .PDFs transferred directly to it, and display them exactly as intended by the author, using either the manufacturer's proprietary transfer application or any of several popular reverse-engineered ones.

      If the answer to that is "true," then I apologize, because I'm spreading FUD and working from incorrect information. I don't own a Kindle myself, because the above is my understanding.

      Amazon will do whatever format conversion they need to, and then e-mail the docs back to you. You can then copy them to your Kindle via USB, and you didn't get charged a red cent.

      Again, if Apple required a process like that, nobody would give them anything but derision.

    10. Re:Exactly by maynard · · Score: 1

      It also supports eink annotation and native PDF rendering. It's the only ereader device appropriate for academics and technical professionals on the market today. The price tag is irrelevant given its feature set. I could care less that it costs a grand if it saves me significant project time.

    11. Re:Exactly by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It also supports eink annotation and native PDF rendering.

      PDF rendering is supported by virtually all devices on the market, including the more recent Hanlin Jinke models and Sony PRS-505. Annotations are supported in PRS-700 (which has a touchscreen just for that purpose). Really, the only thing that's unique about iRex offerings is the 768x1024 screen - but that is a big deal (and also why it costs so much - from what I heard, those screens are made exclusively for iRex, and not mass-produced as those for Hanlin/Sony/Kindle are).

      Even so, when comparing products, it's always worth to mention all the differences, including price.

    12. Re:Exactly by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      From what I can tell, the Kindle 1 doesn't natively read PDFs. That said, you can convert them yourself to .mobi documents (or HTML or TXT or what have you). This is, I believe, simply a technological limitation... ie, rendering PDFs is hard and the Kindle 1 can't do it. I believe the believe the Kindle 2 can (partially) render PDFs directly.

      'course, who would want to direct render a PDF on a device like the Kindle in the first place? PDF is a page description language, and doesn't allow for things like reflow, font size adjustment, and so forth. Which is why things like .mobi files exist... they're *far* superior to PDF for ebooks. Luckily, Kindle supports MOBI, PRC, and straight TXT. And Kindle 2 will do HTML and DOC, as well.

    13. Re:Exactly by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 2, Interesting

      'course, who would want to direct render a PDF on a device like the Kindle in the first place?

      Someone with a metric assload of scanned documents, with formatting that needs to be preserved. That would be me.

    14. Re:Exactly by locoluis · · Score: 3, Informative

      Oh, here's a catch.

      Some PDF creators link the character for each font to the internal representation in order of character appearance, not in Unicode order. This means that things like pdftohtml, screen reading or even plain copy/paste no longer work, as they yield gibberish instead.

      For example, the string:

      "This is a PDF test."

      Would get stored as something like:
      0,1,2,3,4,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,4,9,10,3,9,11

      And pdftohtml yields something like:
        !"#$"#$%&'($)*#)+

      Oh, and each typeface gets a distinct ordering, so the same string in different typefaces would probably get encoded differently...

      In order to decode this you have to both read the actual graphical characters AND know which typeface is used in each segment of text. Which is a PITA. Otherwise, you're lost.

      OCR may or may not be of any help, depending on the typeface used...

    15. Re:Exactly by maynard · · Score: 1

      It's a 1280x1024 10.2" diagonal screen, capable of displaying a full 8 1/2" x 11" page with good quality large fonts. You're right about PDF support on the Sony device, however.

    16. Re:Exactly by Abcd1234 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Someone with a metric assload of scanned documents, with formatting that needs to be preserved. That would be me.

      Then Kindle isn't for you.

      For actual, serious e-book reading, PDF is an inferior format. Period. What you're doing sounds like it involves reading scanned technical manuals or other documentation. For that purpose, you probably want something with higher resolution, and even better, colour. Either way, Kindle isn't the best choice. I'd suggest something along the lines of a tablet PC.

    17. Re:Exactly by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      It's a 1280x1024 10.2" diagonal screen, capable of displaying a full 8 1/2" x 11" page with good quality large fonts.

      I see; I wasn't familiar with the specs for the new iRex offerings, thanks for bringing me up to date. This sounds really nice, and definitely good enough for PDFs and other preformatted stuff with reasonable layout, and justifies the price. I still wish that kind of screen would be mass-produced, so the price could be dropped further. Oh, and 300dpi would also be great while we're at it - now that would be real typographical quality!

    18. Re:Exactly by zmollusc · · Score: 1

      Thank you, Rufus.

      --
      They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
    19. Re:Exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're saying the Kindle sucks because it doesn't support the features you need - which are available when you're willing to pay twice the cost; and that you're not in the target market for Kindle but you are for the DR1000.

      That's great! so uh, remind me why you bothered posting?

    20. Re:Exactly by zmollusc · · Score: 2, Funny

      Neato! And xpdf is already installed on this machine, but i only used the viewer :-)
      You learn something new every day when you are a thick git!

      --
      They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
    21. Re:Exactly by dissy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you're buying your books elsewhere, Amazon's going to take a loss on the whole shebang, and that's most likely what they're trying to prevent (while counting on the fact that you can't get non-drm'd copies of most books such as in .txt, .pdf, or .htm format).

      I still don't see why you or ANYONE can claim this is an OK thing

      Amazon has no right to spew libel AND slander towards anyone by claiming they broke laws that clearly they didn't.

      Seriously, a DMCA take down? the DMCA protects EXACTLY THIS!

      What will it take for you people to see this as bad??

      Amazon issuing "We claim you are a murderer and demand you take down a webpage or we turn you in!"

      This guy clearly did not commit murder anymore than he violated the DMCA.. When does this excusing amazon for lies stop?

    22. Re:Exactly by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      I just stole my copy of Acrobat Pro from a fired coworker.

      He was fired. He left his junk behind on his desk, and he was told to come collect his stuff, but he never returned. After the Christmas holiday I was told to clean it up. I inherited Acrobat Pro, several spoons, two brand-new packs of erasable markers, and a pack of blank CD-Rs. Acrobat Pro is cool because I can export the PDF form of Playboy Magazine to a bunch of JPEGs. Sweet.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    23. Re:Exactly by OFnow · · Score: 1

      Yes, Amazon will process pdf into azw for you. But only if the pdf is internally marked as copyable. Some pdf-s are internally marked non-copyable.

      I can copy the 'non-copyable' myself to any of my computers (IMO legally, all for my personal use, though IANAL) but not to kindle. That is annoying, I have several such pdfs I bought and can read on any of my laptops but not kindle. Fortunately most pdfs are marked copyable.

    24. Re:Exactly by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1

      For actual, serious e-book reading, PDF is an inferior format. Period. What you're doing sounds like it involves reading scanned technical manuals or other documentation. For that purpose, you probably want something with higher resolution, and even better, colour. Either way, Kindle isn't the best choice. I'd suggest something along the lines of a tablet PC.

      Yeah, I don't disagree, but then .MP3 isn't the "best" audio format, either. It's just the standard, and if you're building an audio player, you get the basics right before getting fancy. All I'm saying is that the same should be true of the Kindle, especially in its second generation.

      I doubt I'll be happy with anything unless/until there's a tablet version of the iPhone with improbably-good battery life.

    25. Re:Exactly by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1

      Yet more lameness for which Sony or Apple would be cast into outer darkness if they took the same approach with music files. (There's a copy-protect bit in MP3 frame headers, too, remember?)

    26. Re:Exactly by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I don't disagree, but then .MP3 isn't the "best" audio format, either. It's just the standard

      You can't possibly be suggesting that PDF is "the standard" in ebooks. Because that's *far* from the truth. MOBI, PalmDOC, heck TXT, have far more penetration as far as ebook formats go (I'm also a big fan of Plucker). Yes, PDF is the "standard" for platform agnostic transmission of documents... but the standard for ebooks? No way, no how.

    27. Re:Exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Is there any hope with netbooks? I would think that their bigger screens and better processing power would be advantageous.

      I agree with all your lamentations!
      I have the same desiderata for a portable reader for technical document content.
      I've been horribly disappointed already at the uselessness of Windows Mobile based PDAs for this service -- hearing that they had a PDF reader version (from adobe even), and available VGA resolution screens, I thought they'd be just the thing to use. As it is the mobile reader software is HORRIBLE in functionality and indeed Adobe's own software crashed my PDA so badly that I had to hard reset it and lose all data -- no other software crash has ever been nearly so bad on my PDA before or since that time.

      Frankly now I say to hell with them all and I place the blame on idiotic content creators (and Adobe, et. al.) that they'd even INFLICT the ills of PDF format or other "office document" / "ebook" formats on the world.

      What SHOULD be done is to use a high level markup e.g. "semantic web" style to encode not only the content's literal data (e.g. plain ASCII / XML text passages for the basic content) and also metadata about its semantic meaning (e.g. explicitly categorize and dictionary / bibliography index place names, person names, product names, special symbols, logos, ..., functional and presentation MathML for equations, et. al. Include all the hinting you want about layout / presentation / style / typeface attributes, but NONE of that hinting / presentation metadata should be even remotely required for proper display so that you could easily present the content say audibly or on a kindle / PDA screen or whatever (ignoring much of the layout style sheet intended for standard desktop use) and still have the result look nice and be as readable / usable as possible on any size / type of display device given local preferences for layout styles / formatting.

      It is (should be) the same with web sites. Encode the meaning of the data you want displayed and leave it to the user's own browser to determine HOW to layout / present the information well on whatever resolution / format screen they may have.

      Of course that'd facilitate SEARCH too which is another reason I detest PDF / eBook formats. They're next to impossible to index / search well except in the most rudimentary ways, whereas if they were in some well chosen sort of XML / SGML the situation would be MUCH better. Especially on a mobile reader you need effective search tools to avoid going through hundreds of documents with hundreds of pages each looking for this or that fact / passage altogether too manually.

      I'd VERY much like to never buy another "text book" or copy of a technical journal again and instead get a superior experience (annotation, RICH bookmarking!!!, mashups, portability, SEARCH!!!, ...) with electronic forms but pathetically, deplorably, detestably, idiotically the electronic versions are often FAR worse to use than even a printed copy. If only people would just abandon PDF / DOC / ebook formats and just switch to RDF / DC / XML with rich schemas and metadata.

      captcha: effigy -- and I can think of some voodoo-doll like effigies of Adobe / publisher types I could do some interesting things to right now....

    28. Re:Exactly by Jace+Harker · · Score: 2, Informative

      Where did you hear that there is no native support for PDF's?

      You can easily load PDF's to the Kindle.

      These are not equivalent. "Native" support means that you could put a .pdf file directly on the Kindle (via USB), and the Kindle would be able to open it. What the Kindle actually does is, you can email a .pdf document to something@kindle.com, and Amazon's software will attempt to reflow and convert the .pdf document into .azw format. The Kindle does NOT support .pdf natively.

      This python script creates a hash to make the Kindle think that .mobi files (Secure Mobipocket books, a competitor of Amazon's for this market) are native Amazon books. After you get a hash from kindlepid.py, you run kindlefix.py on your .mobi file with your hash, and it produces a .azw file which the Kindle then thinks is one of its own book formats.

      This is incorrect in several ways. First, the non-DRMed .azw format is almost exactly the same as the non-DRMed .mobi format. It simply has a different extension. The encryption used for DRM may be different, but the Kindle is certainly capable of opening DRMed .mobi files natively. You can bet that Amazon is paying a licensing fee to Mobipocket.

      Now, here's how mobipocket DRM works. Your device (Kindle, Bookeen, etc.) has a unique ID number. When you buy an ebook from a site (ie. Fictionwise), you input this ID which is then incorporated into the encryption of the file. Thus, that device will be able to open that file. Any file can be viewed by up to 6 different devices. For most devices, the ID is known to the user. With the Kindle and Amazon, all of the above is handled automatically, so the user does not NEED to know the ID when buying from Amazon.

      The script in question, kindlepid.py, simply reads the ID number of the Kindle in question and prints it out for the user. It's worth noting that the official Mobipocket Desktop software version 6.0 could also do this, at least for the Kindle v1.

      Now, using the ID, it is possible to buy encrypted .mobi ebooks from other vendors (ie. Fictionwise) with the Kindle added as an "approved" device. The Kindle can read these files, but won't unless a "read-approval" bit is flipped in the file. This can be done by a second script, kindlefix.py.

      What's curious and kind of ridiculous about this situation is that if either of these scripts is circumventing DRM, it would be the second script, kindlefix. However, the DMCA takedown notice apparently targeted the FIRST script, kindlepid, which only prints information that you could already get using official Mobipocket software. That's why Amazon's whole approach in this case seems ridiculous at best.

      In any case, I think that from Mobileread's point of view this was probably the best response.

    29. Re:Exactly by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1

      (Shrug) It's the standard in electronic documents in general. For everything recorded in one of those other formats, there are 5,000 .PDFs.

      Which is a damned good thing, because nobody will use .txt because it isn't sexy and buzzword-compliant, and 50 years from now, you're going to be screwed royally if you need to read a MOBI or PalmDOC document.

    30. Re:Exactly by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      abiword can get the text out. Some people say it can get more but whenever i've tried to open a pdf with it all i've got is the text. You can also copy and paste from acrobat.

      for extracting diagrams (without turning them into bitmaps) the best tool i've found seems to be inkscape. Only annoying thing is it doesn't seem to have a concept of pages so you have to import one page at a time.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    31. Re:Exactly by petermgreen · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I can't say i've encountered this myself though it doesn't surprise me.

      iirc there are libraries for working with pdf ( the name itext springs to mind) so it should be possible to make an app that displays each typeface table and lets you specify how it should map to unicode then uses that info to convert the pdf to text.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    32. Re:Exactly by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      It's the standard in electronic documents in general.

      So? By your estimation all web browsers should natively render PDF, too, because, hey, it's a standard for electronic documents! But, of course, it's not a standard for all things. It's only a standard for fixed layout, fixed content documents. For marked up text, HTML is the standard. For simple tabular data, CSV is the standard. For ebooks, there happens to be a couple de facto standard formats out there (mobi and palmdoc being most common), neither of which is PDF, which is ill-suited to that space. So there's absolutely no reason why one would expect a device like Kindle to natively render them, any more than I would expect a web browser to natively render PDF.

      The rest of your post is really a non-sequitor. Last I checked, I never suggested using MOBI or PRC as an archival format, nor does it matter either way as that's entirely beside the point. The simple fact is that:

      a) Kindle is an ebook reader.
      b) PDF is a crappy format for storing ebooks in.
      c) Therefore, there's no reason you or anyone else should expect Kindle to natively render PDFs.

      The fact you don't understand 'c' suggests to me that you've never actually read a real ebook, and are instead complaining that Kindle doesn't meet your personal expectations and requirements. Fortunately, that's no one's fault but your own, as you clearly can't seem to accept that Kindle is not designed with your needs in mind.

    33. Re:Exactly by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1

      (Shrug) It's the standard in electronic documents in general. For everything recorded in one of those other formats, there are 5,000 .PDFs. /didn't seem to sink in the first time, so I'll go for a -1, Redundant

    34. Re:Exactly by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      (Shrug) It's the standard in electronic documents in general.

      No, it's not, and your saying so doesn't make it true. It's just *one* format, and for only a subset of different types of electronic documents out there: fixed layout documents that must be rendered the same regardless of device. Heck, it isn't even the only standard... postscript (PDF's progenitor) has been around much longer and is implemented in every mid- to high-end printer in existence.

      At the risk of repeating myself, since this point didn't seem to sink in for you, other standards for electronic documents include HTML for hypertext documents (of which there are probably ten documents for every one PDF out there), CSV for tabular data, and so forth. No one would use one of those formats for distributing a fixed layout document, any more than they'd distribute a spreadsheet as a PDF (well, maybe you would, I don't know...). Similarly, PDF makes absolutely no sense as an ebook format, and thus it makes no sense for an ebook reader... you know, a device designed to read *ebooks*... to waste cycles or space supporting it when those resources could be used for more useful features.

      In short: you don't want an ebook reader. You want a fixed-layout document viewer. Kindle is the former, not the latter.

    35. Re:Exactly by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Simple - their bookstore sucked. the Sony was a superior device - with less easily accessible content. I know guys who owned them and bought Kindles later to get content. Amazon on the other hand already had a pile of content and contacts with the folks who made it - they just needed a device. It's butt ugly but the screen is great and the battery life rox when not using the radio. When I'm reading I'm not focused on anything but the text and flipping the page - the Kindle works because there's content for it despite being ugly. Kindle2 is sleeker but the Sony still has the edge in looks, shame about the content.

      BTW - I have converted many PDF and have mailed none of them anywhere. The Mobi tools work fine for this and were free. Took a few moments of time is all. the mail away process isn't one I've used but I understand it's pretty darned good!

      P.S. Yes I know about the free stuff out there blah blah...

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    36. Re:Exactly by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Get the Mobi tools to convert them yourself - pretty sure it will convert files that are marked not copyable as one of the ones I did wasn't supposed to be copied :-) As for them not doing this - imagine the legal furor if they did on something that was "copyrighted" blah blah. I don't blame them for simply avoiding this.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    37. Re:Exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so? they don't get to force us to support their losses on the hardware by making us buy the books. it's my goddamn piece of hardware i'll read whatever the hell i feel like on it. if amazon cannot sustain their 'kindle division' by selling the hardware itself then that is their own damned mistake.

    38. Re:Exactly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I want my stuff back, bitch!

    39. Re:Exactly by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > Is there any hope with netbooks?
      I think so. For $300 picked up a 1.6 GHz, 1 GB, 1024x600 Acer Aspire One. Also have a 9-Cell battery which lasts 7+ hours.

      > [rant about how .PDFs suck deleted]
      If .PDFs suck, its because authors aren't spending the time to do it right. InDesign will natively export to PDF and you can get some beautiful results if you spend some time.

    40. Re:Exactly by maynard · · Score: 1

      You're saying the Kindle sucks because it doesn't support the features you need - which are available when you're willing to pay twice the cost; and that you're not in the target market for Kindle but you are for the DR1000.

      Yes. That's what I'm saying. The Kindle sucks because as a product it doesn't even come close to meeting my needs. It doesn't matter if it sells for $1000, $350, or $.25. If it doesn't perform the functions I need, to buy it is a waste of money. Period.

      I need a device that would replace a physical 8.5" x 11" notebook and allow me to manipulate electronic documents as if I were holding a printed copy. I want to write in eink because using a keyboard does not allow for good math annotation. That feature is critical to me. I would gladly spend $1000 for a light device that replaced the many pounds of dead trees I carry around in my backpack / shoulder bag every day.

      That's great! so uh, remind me why you bothered posting?

      You're an ass.

    41. Re:Exactly by nahdude812 · · Score: 1

      I still don't see why you or ANYONE can claim this is an OK thing

      I didn't make any value judgement that it's good or bad; I merely posited a possible motive.

    42. Re:Exactly by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      and even better, colour.
      Most of the techical documentation (mostly component datasheets but some other stuff too) I see in PDF form is designed to be printed on mono laser printers, photocopied etc (some of the older stuff is clearly scans of low quality photocopies in the first place :( ) so black and white is the order of the day with maybe the occasional use of greyscale in a diagram.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
  23. Torrent? by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    So where is the torrent? Or who will be man enough to post the code here ? :)

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Torrent? by QuoteMstr · · Score: 5, Informative

      kindlefix.py


      import prc, sys, struct
      from binascii import hexlify

      def strByte(s,off=0):
      return struct.unpack(">B",s[off])[0];

      def strSWord(s,off=0):
      return struct.unpack(">h",s[off:off+2])[0];

      def strWord(s,off=0):
      return struct.unpack(">H",s[off:off+2])[0];

      def strDWord(s,off=0):
      return struct.unpack(">L",s[off:off+4])[0];

      def strPutDWord(s,off,i):
      return s[:off]+struct.pack(">L",i)+s[off+4:];

      keyvec1 = "\x72\x38\x33\xB0\xB4\xF2\xE3\xCA\xDF\x09\x01\xD6\xE2\xE0\x3F\x96"

      #implementation of Pukall Cipher 1
      def PC1(key, src, decryption=True):
      sum1 = 0;
      sum2 = 0;
      keyXorVal = 0;
      if len(key)!=16:
      print "Bad key length!"
      return None
      wkey = []
      for i in xrange(8):
      wkey.append(ord(key[i*2])> 8)) ^ byteXorVal) & 0xFF
      if decryption:
      keyXorVal = curByte * 257;
      for j in xrange(8):
      wkey[j] ^= keyXorVal;

      dst+=chr(curByte)

      return dst

      def find_key(rec0, pid):
      off1 = strDWord(rec0, 0xA8)
      if off1==0xFFFFFFFF or off1==0:
      print "No DRM"
      return None
      size1 = strDWord(rec0, 0xB0)
      cnt = strDWord(rec0, 0xAC)
      flag = strDWord(rec0, 0xB4)

      temp_key = PC1(keyvec1, pid.ljust(16,'\0'), False)
      cksum = 0
      #print pid, "->", hexlify(temp_key)
      for i in xrange(len(temp_key)):
      cksum += ord(temp_key[i])
      cksum &= 0xFF
      temp_key = temp_key.ljust(16,'\0')
      #print "pid cksum: %02X"%cksum

      #print "Key records: %02X-%02X, count: %d, flag: %02X"%(off1, off1+size1, cnt, flag)
      iOff = off1
      drm_key = None
      for i in xrange(cnt):
      dwCheck = strDWord(rec0, iOff)
      dwSize = strDWord(rec0, iOff+4)
      dwType = strDWord(rec0, iOff+8)
      nCksum = strByte(rec0, iOff+0xC)
      #print "Key record %d: check=%08X, size=%d, type=%d, cksum=%02X"%(i, dwCheck, dwSize, dwType, nCksum)
      if nCksum==cksum:
      drmInfo = PC1(temp_key, rec0[iOff+0x10:iOff+0x30])
      dw0, dw4, dw18, dw1c = struct.unpack(">II16xII", drmInfo)
      #print "Decrypted drmInfo:", "%08X, %08X, %s, %08X, %08X"%(dw0, dw4, hexli

    2. Re:Torrent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      --begin kindlepid.py--
      import sys, binascii

      letters = "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNPQRSTUVWXYZ123456789"

      def crc32(s):
      return (~binascii.crc32(s,-1))&0xFFFFFFFF

      def checksumPid(s):
      crc = crc32(s)
      crc = crc ^ (crc >> 16)
      res = s
      l = len(letters)
      for i in (0,1):
      b = crc & 0xff
      pos = (b // l) ^ (b % l)
      res += letters[pos%l]
      crc >>= 8

      return res

      def pidFromSerial(s, l):
      crc = crc32(s)

      arr1 = [0]*l
      for i in xrange(len(s)):
      arr1[i%l] ^= ord(s[i])

      crc_bytes = [crc >> 24 & 0xff, crc >> 16 & 0xff, crc >> 8 & 0xff, crc & 0xff]
      for i in xrange(l):
      arr1[i] ^= crc_bytes[i&3]

      pid = ""
      for i in xrange(l):
      b = arr1[i] & 0xff
      pid+=letters[(b >> 7) + ((b >> 5 & 3) ^ (b & 0x1f))]

      return pid

      print "Mobipocket PID calculator for Amazon Kindle. Copyright (c) 2007 Igor Skochinsky "
      if len(sys.argv)>1:
      pid = pidFromSerial(sys.argv[1],7)+"*"
      print "Mobipocked PID for Kindle serial# "+sys.argv[1]+" is "+checksumPid(pid)
      else:
      print "Usage: kindlepid.py "
      --end kindlepid.py--

      --begin kindlefix.py--
      import prc, sys, struct
      from binascii import hexlify

      def strByte(s,off=0):
      return struct.unpack(">B",s[off])[0];

      def strSWord(s,off=0):
      return struct.unpack(">h",s[off:off+2])[0];

      def strWord(s,off=0):
      return struct.unpack(">H",s[off:off+2])[0];

      def strDWord(s,off=0):
      return struct.unpack(">L",s[off:off+4])[0];

      def strPutDWord(s,off,i):
      return s[:off]+struct.pack(">L",i)+s[off+4:];

      keyvec1 = "\x72\x38\x33\xB0\xB4\xF2\xE3\xCA\xDF\x09\x01\xD6\xE2\xE0\x3F\x96"

      #implementation of Pukall Cipher 1
      def PC1(key, src, decryption=True):
      sum1 = 0;
      sum2 = 0;
      keyXorVal = 0;
      if len(key)!=16:
      print "Bad key length!"
      return None
      wkey = []
      for i in xrange(8):
      wkey.append(ord(key[i*2])> 8)) ^ byteXorVal) & 0xFF
      if decryption:
      keyXorVal = curByte * 257;
      for j in xrange(8):
      wkey[j] ^= keyXorVal;

      dst+=chr(curByte)

      return dst

      def find_key(rec0, pid):
      off1 = strDWord(rec0, 0xA8)
      if off1==0xFFFFFFFF or off1==0:
      print "No DRM"
      return None
      size1 = strDWord(rec0, 0xB0)
      cnt = strDWord(rec0, 0xAC)
      flag = strDWord(rec0, 0xB4)

      temp_key = PC1(keyvec1, pid.ljust(16,'\0'), False)

    3. Re:Torrent? by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      So where is the torrent?

      Why bother with a torrent for something so small?

      Or who will be man enough to post the code here ? :)

      With enough technical prowess to keep slashcode from mangling the code?

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    4. Re:Torrent? by Inda · · Score: 1

      Can't wait to see that on a t-shirt.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    5. Re:Torrent? by ameline · · Score: 1

      You could also just google kindlepid.py -- there are multiple hits that get you to all of that. It's out there -- the horses have left the barn and the worms are out of the can -- good luck to amazon trying to get them back -- it's futile, but don't let that stop you from trying...

      --
      Ian Ameline
    6. Re:Torrent? by jank1887 · · Score: 1

      would have been the most awesomest first post evar.

    7. Re:Torrent? by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Here's another of interest...

      http://pastebin.com/fc53f5e8

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    8. Re:Torrent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about the newer version? Says it works for iPhone also.

      #!/usr/bin/python
      # The Kindleizer v0.2. Copyright (c) 2007, 2009 Igor Skochinsky
      # This script enables encrypted Mobipocket books to be readable by Kindle
      # History:
      # 0.1 initial release
      # 0.2 fixed corrupted metadata issue (thanks to Mark Peek)

      import prc, sys, struct

      if sys.hexversion >= 0x3000000:
      print "This script is incompatible with Python 3.x. Please install Python 2.6.x from python.org"
      sys.exit(2)

      from binascii import hexlify

      def strByte(s,off=0):
      return struct.unpack(">B",s[off])[0];

      def strSWord(s,off=0):
      return struct.unpack(">h",s[off:off+2])[0];

      def strWord(s,off=0):
      return struct.unpack(">H",s[off:off+2])[0];

      def strDWord(s,off=0):
      return struct.unpack(">L",s[off:off+4])[0];

      def strPutDWord(s,off,i):
      return s[:off]+struct.pack(">L",i)+s[off+4:];

      keyvec1 = "\x72\x38\x33\xB0\xB4\xF2\xE3\xCA\xDF\x09\x01\xD6\xE2\xE0\x3F\x96"

      #implementation of Pukall Cipher 1
      def PC1(key, src, decryption=True):
      sum1 = 0;
      sum2 = 0;
      keyXorVal = 0;
      if len(key)!=16:
      print "Bad key length!"
      return None
      wkey = []
      for i in xrange(8):
      wkey.append(ord(key[i*2])> 8)) ^ byteXorVal) & 0xFF
      if decryption:
      keyXorVal = curByte * 257;
      for j in xrange(8):
      wkey[j] ^= keyXorVal;

      dst+=chr(curByte)

      return dst

      def find_key(rec0, pid):
      off1 = strDWord(rec0, 0xA8)
      if off1==0xFFFFFFFF or off1==0:
      print "No DRM"
      return None
      size1 = strDWord(rec0, 0xB0)
      cnt = strDWord(rec0, 0xAC)
      flag = strDWord(rec0, 0xB4)

      temp_key = PC1(keyvec1, pid.ljust(16,'\0'), False)
      cksum = 0
      #print pid, "->", hexlify(temp_key)
      for i in xrange(len(temp_key)):
      cksum += ord(temp_key[i])
      cksum &= 0xFF
      temp_key = temp_key.ljust(16,'\0')
      #print "pid cksum: %02X"%cksum

      #print "Key records: %02X-%02X, count: %d, flag: %02X"%(off1, off1+size1, cnt, flag)
      iOff = off1
      drm_key = None
      for i in xrange(cnt):
      dwCheck = strDWord(rec0, iOff)
      dwSize = strDWord(rec0, iOff+4)
      dwType = strDWord(rec0, iOff+8)
      nCksum = strByte(rec0, iOff+0xC)
      #print "Key record %d: check=%08X, size=%d, type=%d, cksum=%02X"%(i, dwCheck, dwSize, dwType, nCksum)
      if nCksum

  24. Switching from Kindle by ProteusQ · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What are the best open ebook reader options out there?

    1. Re:Switching from Kindle by Colonel+Korn · · Score: 1

      What are the best open ebook reader options out there?

      None in the form factor of the Kindle, but that's beside the point. No "open" ebook reader will display DRMed files. The Kindle displays all non-DRMed files by default. It also displays all Amazon DRMed files. The controversy here is about Amazon DMCAing a script that would let you use another ebook seller's DRMed files. Compared to our theoretical "open" device, with or without this script the Kindle shows more.

      However, the Kindle is very expensive, to the point that it will probably save money for only a very small minority (I don't think saving money is the point of the device, though - it's portability).

      --
      "I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
    2. Re:Switching from Kindle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Um, I think he knows that. He's asking for an alternative because he is going to "vote with his wallet."

    3. Re:Switching from Kindle by darkuncle · · Score: 1

      if you have an iPhone, stanza is my favorite there (support for most formats and integration with a number of online stores, plus a good interface, all at no charge)

      --
      illum oportet crescere me autem minui
    4. Re:Switching from Kindle by Oscar_Wilde · · Score: 2, Informative

      The iLiad Book Edition is a good choice. The hardware is nice and the firmware is open source. It's also very expensive.

      You could also look at the BeBook. It uses the same 6" panel as everyone else, has excellent wide and open format support and the firmware is open source. It's also sold under many other names, Hanlin V3 being the most common.

      I've bought a BeBook. It should last me long enough that a better and probably cheaper generation of devices will come out. There's no need to go for the top of the line models now, the technology is changing too fast.

      If your primary motivation is reading not fiddling then don't bother with wireless and touch panels yet. They cut the battery life from several weeks to a few days on every model that has them.

    5. Re:Switching from Kindle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is not open, but for me is better. Foxit reader device. The battery duration is awesome and is not locked to any eBook vendor. http://www.foxitsoftware.com/ebook/overview.html

    6. Re:Switching from Kindle by j.sanchez1 · · Score: 1

      I have a Sony PRS-505. I use calibre to manage it. No need to deal with any DRM at all. Calibre will format text and RTF files into the LRF format for the reader. You can also use various online converters to convert from PDF to Word and then use Word/Write to convert to RTF or plain text..

      --
      Speedy thing goes in; speedy thing comes out.
  25. DMCA TAKEDOWN! by Philip+K+Dickhead · · Score: 5, Informative
    --
    "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
    1. Re:DMCA TAKEDOWN! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Here's another one with the code in question:
      http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf

    2. Re:DMCA TAKEDOWN! by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Here's another one with the code in question:
      http://www.copyright.gov/legislation/dmca.pdf

      Now that's funny. (It's a play on the word "code".)

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    3. Re:DMCA TAKEDOWN! by xeoron · · Score: 4, Informative

      Updated version of the code, azw-0.2.zip, is here: http://skochinsky.googlepages.com/azw-0.2.zip.

    4. Re:DMCA TAKEDOWN! by Philip+K+Dickhead · · Score: 1

      Can't stop the Lovin'!

      --
      "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
    5. Re:DMCA TAKEDOWN! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I hope a ton of people pick this up, host it, and thumb their noses at Amazon. I'm too afraid to.

    6. Re:DMCA TAKEDOWN! by skeeto · · Score: 1

      On censorship-resistant Freenet, (0.1 and 0.2 links)

      CHK@dl2LtW8MY23bY~5bo7nU96RV3bgCFSJ-ZTvwC6U9L6M,wdjDGdjVIupIin1DpjTuLBbaaHIQgnKpH-97RgGkP9w,AAIC--8/azw-0.1.zip

      CHK@ezRruzByixwIQ4GwkE8w96lHB1gwXbpO3pTgz4EhZwY,5nU5t7jRgFLtlDwJ2Tivj12rMAusv~T~zywKdAEfw-g,AAIC--8/azw-0.2.zip

    7. Re:DMCA TAKEDOWN! by skeeto · · Score: 1

      Oh, and that 0.05 script that's floating around. I am not sure how exactly it relates, but here it is.

      CHK@VRgff5NObfXt5SXMsgGZFp-0jtMU9maKpK2n9Jv7wy0,leLmYUChr-782zUG9fh6EzPEO9CC3QEeRQG8GgMA7jk,AAIC--8/kindlefix.py

  26. Who cares? it's a kindle... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let Amazon shoot themselves in the foot. Anything that makes this stupid thing less attractive is a plus in my book. I'd much rather not have Amazon become any sort of market leader here.

  27. Kindle for iPod by dazedNconfuzed · · Score: 1

    I find this amusing for some reason, considering I just got Amazon's Kindle for iPod Touch reader for free - and the iPod cost a whole lot less than a Kindle (in my case, free with MacBook purchase). Amazon can't say squat about the other e-book readers I also have for the iPod. Come the 10" iPod Touch, Kindle won't have much to offer in competition - especially if Amazon successfully drives away all 3rd-party sources.

    --
    Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
    1. Re:Kindle for iPod by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      They make their money from the books, not the reader. The reader exists to sell the books. If someone gets books to work with the reader that weren't purchased through Amazon, then they lose money. If you read the books on your iPod/iPhone, then Amazon is making money on the book plus saving by not having to sell you the Kindle at a loss. So they love that. They want everyone to read their Kindle books, and nothing to work on the Kindle unless you paid them first.

    2. Re:Kindle for iPod by initdeep · · Score: 1

      if they make so much money from the books and lose on every reader, why does Sony sell their readers for less money?

      Don't tell me that it's from book sales as the vast majority of people who put books on their sony readers DO NOT purchase them from the Sony book store as it has shit for selection.

      yet they manage to make enough to sell the units, and supposedly far fewer of them (i have my doubts there), and still be profitable for the company.

    3. Re:Kindle for iPod by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      If someone gets books to work with the reader that weren't purchased through Amazon, then they lose money.

      How does Amazon lose money when you buy books they don't sell? Surely it's Amazon's fault for not carrying Ethyl the Aardvark Goes Quantity Surveying.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    4. Re:Kindle for iPod by Seraphim1982 · · Score: 1

      if they make so much money from the books and lose on every reader, why does Sony sell their readers for less money?

      Because Sony readers have fewer features, and therefor are a lot cheaper to make/sell.

    5. Re:Kindle for iPod by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      How does Amazon lose money when you buy books they don't sell?

      Because if you buy their Kindle at a loss for Amazon, then never buy a book from them, they lost money. If you buy it and then buy 100 books for it, they made money. If they can prevent you from buying books from other sources, then you will (hopefully) buy more from them.

    6. Re:Kindle for iPod by pitje · · Score: 1

      If someone gets books to work with the reader that weren't purchased through Amazon, then they lose money.

      not making money is not the same as losing money

    7. Re:Kindle for iPod by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      Because if you buy their Kindle at a loss for Amazon, then never buy a book from them, they lost money.

      So, if I buy a Kindle and never buy a book for it, only using it to read Wikipedia and read and post to blogs... should Amazon be able to sue me for stealing from them by my failure to buy books, or brick my Kindle? If they're serious about this take-down, they'd sue me for buying from someone else; how is that different from not buying anything more from them at all?

      They aren't doing that now. In fact, no one is yet, but we're getting to the point where businesses think that by selling you a product at a loss they are entitled to additional profit after the sale. Well, there was the Columbia Record Club where you got a bunch of records for a penny plus an obligation towards a minimum number of purchases later at inflated prices, but not yet with electronic gateway devices. We're getting close to a situation like an enforced "two drink minimum" at a bar with these products. Keep an eye on those EULAs.

      In fact, this is Amazon protecting first their share of profits for granting these books' publishers access to the Kindle market and second themselves for not having negotiated with these books' publishers the right to reproduce their books on the Kindle. By authorizing the books ourselves without authority, we both undercut Amazon's profits and expose Amazon to contributory infringement liability by giving these books a free ride.

      Copyright is such a tangle that rights holders would rather pay Amazon for the privilege than be given access against their will/rights. It's like treating a kid to a free trip to Disneyland and Disney suing you instead of the kid's parents. (Actually it would be the government bringing suit, once they know about it, possibly even against the wishes of the parents, but that's not important for the analogy.)

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
    8. Re:Kindle for iPod by Knara · · Score: 0

      if they make so much money from the books and lose on every reader, why does Sony sell their readers for less money?

      Because technologically, the Kindle 2 is a superior device to the Sony consumer offerings.

    9. Re:Kindle for iPod by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      not making money is not the same as losing money

      Spending more than you take in is the same as losing money.

    10. Re:Kindle for iPod by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Good god, jump to conclusions much? Kindle is upset about a program that pulls an ID number that can be used to purchase books from others - and help strip the DRM from their files. They are NOT stopping or even trying to stop the use of books from many sources - if they were then their PDF service wouldn't exist and their software wouldn't be MOBI compatible. Many Kindle owners get books from sources other than Amazon and they have no problems doing so. You don't seem to understand why they are doing this, frankly I'm puzzled too since the DRM stripping script is still out there alive and well lol.

      As for granting authors access to the book market - Amazon has to try and get them to sell not the other way around! Some authors are flat out refusing to go digital at all, the ones that are willing they publish. Try buying any of the Potter books electronically for instance. Amazon even has a button on their book purchases where you can ask to have a book done electronically. BTW the Potter PDFs converts fine sans Amazon assistance.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    11. Re:Kindle for iPod by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

      Good god, jump to conclusions much? Kindle is upset about a program that pulls an ID number that can be used to purchase books from others

      You do know that those "others" are in fact a subsidiary of Amazon, right?

      So Amazon is trying to stop people from buying from their subsidiary instead of from Amazon directly. Why would they do that? Because either they want to negotiate Kindle rights separately from other electronic books so they can charge a premium for the Kindle edition or their contracts for those other editions are too tightly worded to allow for a Kindle edition so they need to be renegotiated.

      It's like Hulu having the rights to show content on computer screens only, but not television screens, so any device that's been demonstrated using a television screen (Boxee) must be cut off by Hulu or Hulu will be in breach of license rights.

      Or how the guy who got a license for Tetris on "computers" thought he was getting a good deal (thought it could apply to game consoles, calculators, any computing device now or in the future) until at the 11th hour a definition of a computer was inserted as being something with a keyboard and monitor. Nintendo ended up with the best contract for being the first to actually pay Russia for it.

      (Nevermind that television screens and monitors are practically interchangeable these days. Size matters not. I watch TV on a 47" monitor. A television has a frequency tuner; a monitor does not.)

      Or how Apple has to disallow turn-by-turn navigation programs for the iPhone and iPod Touch because Apple hasn't licensed the patents for such an application and would be sued for selling it and having the deepest pockets.

      Vardan leader: It is time to conclude these formalities, Doctor. Sign the treaty!
      The Doctor: I never sign anything before I read it.
      Vardan leader: Then read!
      The Doctor: [reading] You promised me complete control over the Time Lords.
      Vardan leader: You will have complete control.
      The Doctor: But in paragraph four subsection three, it states that-
      Vardan leader: Mere lawyers' quibbles, Doctor.
      The Doctor: I've heard that one before. Lawyers' quibbles can get you killed.

      Jumping to conclusions? I don't think so.

      --
      Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  28. Re:Kindle is a piece of shit by dave562 · · Score: 1

    Is this what I miss when I keep my score threshhold set too high?

  29. Its an industrial standard by Demonantis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Amazon isn't the only one that does this. Apple does this with their products. A lot of printing companies do this with ink cartridges. Car companies often control the supply of replacement parts. Secondary purchases are a huge economy everywhere. I don't like that use of the DMCA, though. Its implications really scare me. What if I modified my car then release the notes on a web page. Could the manufacture DMCA it down? Should this be an acceptable use of the DMCA? I think that DMCA notices should really come with a danger to misuse. If there isn't companies could DMCA their way out of webpages that attack their product. It would really make the company think about it be before it brought down it's huge club of injustice on an individual.

    1. Re:Its an industrial standard by shermo · · Score: 1

      I thought you could post DMCA notices for any information

      --
      Insanity: voting in the same two parties over and over again and expecting different results
    2. Re:Its an industrial standard by shking · · Score: 1

      All of the following are legal:

      1) Content not purchased on iTunes may be played on iTunes/iPod
      2) Car parts may be reverse-engineered and manufactured by someone other than the car maker
      3) Ink cartridges may be refilled and/or reverse engineered

      --
      -- "At Microsoft, quality is job 1.1" -- PC Magazine, Nov. 1994
    3. Re:Its an industrial standard by geekoid · · Score: 1

      ". A lot of printing companies do this with ink cartridges."

      and fail when they try to take the person who used different ink cartridges to court.

      "Car companies often control the supply of replacement parts"

      False

      The abuse of the DMCA is why it is bad.
      Talk to your representatives.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    4. Re:Its an industrial standard by sqlrob · · Score: 1

      What DRMed content not-purchased on iTunes can be played on the iPod?

    5. Re:Its an industrial standard by nametaken · · Score: 1

      A lot of printing companies do this with ink cartridges.

      Didn't Epson or HP get slammed with a nasty class action over this?

    6. Re:Its an industrial standard by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      What if I modified my car then release the notes on a web page. Could the manufacture DMCA it down?

      Yes. This happens a LOT. Guys will figure out how to turbo a car and post the Prom bin file on their website or the forums and then GM slaps them with a DMCA attack. Now bin files for most cars are traded in the backchannel that is invisible from the lawyers that dont have enough to do.

      Honda tried a DMCA takedown on the instructions to modify the ECM in the Civic. They made the ECM "untuneable" and guys figured out how to hack it to make it tuneable. There's a lot of history of Car modifications and the maker suing or threatening the publisher of that information.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  30. anonymous coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just wish they would make their darned ebooks readable on media other than the kindle. :P

    1. Re:anonymous coward by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Like the iPhone? done!

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  31. Well I WAS going to buy one by stormcoder · · Score: 1

    Won't be doing so now. I'll just stick with my Zaurus PDA and Gutenberg.

    This is one of those shoot themselves in the foot moments. The people who are going to by this device and make it profitable are the ones that will want to tinker with it. If the tinkerers don't buy it the Kindle will fail as a product before it has a chance to become mainstream. Good job Amazon.

    --
    Sorry my bullshit sensor overloaded.
  32. Anybody suprised by this? by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    Econ 101: If your business model involves selling the hardware for less than cost and then making all your money on content licenses, then you need to prevent alternative uses of the hardware by any means necessary. Of course, the alternative would be to FIX YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS MODEL, but then, when has Amazon ever seriously considered the "fix the business model" alternative?

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  33. What was their actual DMCA complaint? by 91degrees · · Score: 1

    They surely can't claim copyright on the instructions on how to use the software. That was written by someone else. They don't have the copyright on the books that are uploaded onto the device or any rights at all to another vendors ebooks. As far as I understand, this software doesn't make any modifications to the Kindle itself (if I'm wrong I may address that point), or modify the Amazon ebooks.

    Copyright can in no way restrict what you do with the device because you're not making any copies.

    It would have made more sense to tell them where to stick their DMCA complaint.

  34. Amazon is wrong on the law by belmolis · · Score: 5, Informative

    Leaving aside the issue of users' rights, as far as I can see Amazon is just plain wrong on the law and lacks legal justification for the takedown notice. What the DMCA prohibits is the distribution of tools for overcoming technical measures for protecting copyrighted materials. The first program generates a MOBI ID from a kindle serial number. The second program rewrites a non-Amazon ebook so that it contains the id that will allow it to work on the Kindle with the given serial number. Neither program modifies or copies the Kindle's software. Since the ebooks in question are not produced by Amazon, no material whose copyright belongs to Amazon is affected in any way. In other words, this software does not defeat any technical measure of Amazon's for protecting copyrighted material since Amazon has no copyrighted material at stake here. The DMCA is inapplicable, and the takedown notice invalid. Indeed, it is so clear that this software does nothing to defeat protection of copyrighted material that I would say that the takedown notice was issued in bad faith.

    What this software actually does is allow for interoperability, which is explicitly protected by the DMCA.

    1. Re:Amazon is wrong on the law by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seems that the issue has already been decided.

      http://www.eff.org/cases/chamberlain-group-inc-v-skylink-technologies-inc

      If this is applied to the Kindle, Amazon loses.

    2. Re:Amazon is wrong on the law by Dare+nMc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It appears the "MOBI ID" of the kindle would also allow the stripping of amazons DRM using the same software that strips DRM from mobi books.
      So while the intended application should be DMCA safe, having the MOBI ID is one step closer to stripping DRM from amazons books. (still not a clear DMCA violation, but I can see some point)

    3. Re:Amazon is wrong on the law by JSWolf42 · · Score: 1

      Amazon owns Mobipocket. So kindlefix does indeed modify Amazon's DRM.

  35. Typically rejected by courts by langelgjm · · Score: 1

    It may be an industry-wide practice, but that doesn't mean the courts like it.

    Lexmark tried to do this with its ink cartridges, but it's a terrible argument, and the courts recognized that, ruling that their access-control mechanism wasn't actually controlling access to a copyrighted work.

    This sort of practice really has nothing to do with copyright and everything to do with trying to exert control over aftermarket products. Unfortunately, it would be so expensive to go and litigate this, and the outcome is never certain, so they were probably smart to give up.

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
  36. Amazon's Business Model: Carpe emptorem! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    AKA "Seize the buyers!"

  37. Re:Kindle is a piece of shit by Vertana · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Oh noes! Not the Kindle restricting meh puchases!

    --
    "The best way to accelerate a Macintosh is at 9.8m/sec^2" -Marcus Dolengo
  38. Big Ado About Nothing by pvera · · Score: 4, Informative

    The purpose of the tool is not to allow non-Amazon content into the Kindle. Instead, it is to allow non-Amazon eBook sellers to be able to sell content for the Kindle. It has NOTHING to do with your ability as a user to bring content into your Kindle without paying Amazon.

    I should know, I owned a Kindle 1 for 7 months and currently own two Kindle 2s (hint: if you only have one Kindle, don't show it to your wife and go LOOK HONEY, SEE HOW COOL THIS IS!!! because she'll immediately take over it and you'll end up buying a second one). I have had no issues bringing content into any of my Kindles:

    1. Any content that I can read with Stanza and/or Mobipocket Creator (both free) can be converted into formats that can be read by the Kindle.
    2. Amazon provides you with a unique email address to email content to be converted directly into your Kindle. 10 cents per conversion.
    3. Amazon provides you with a second unique email address to email content to be converted, then emailed back to you for free. Yes, free.
    4. Using the basic web browser, you can pick any web-based file that is compatible with the Kindle and it will download it just like if you purchased it from Amazon. There are plenty of websites that cater directly to the Kindle, and there is a huge drive to make Project Gutemberg and others fully compatible with the Kindle.
    5. Amazon charges you for subscribing to feeds. Or you can use the free tool at Feedbooks. These clever people figured out a way to package an RSS subscription as an eBook, and it has an auto-update link. Open the book from your Kindle, click on Update and it downloads a new version of the file. Tedious? Sure, but it is free.
    6. Annoyed about having to connect to your PC just so you can move your content into your Kindle? Don't feel like paying the 10-cent tax? Easy, simply dump your eBook files into a folder in your website, password protect it if you are paranoid, then open it from your basic browser. You can now download your own books from anywhere, which is great if you don't like clutter or in case you delete the wrong book by accident.

    Now, of course, it sucks if you are trying to make a buck selling eBooks for the Kindle outside of Amazon and you are using a format that requires the ID of your device. If all you want to do is sell the content, then you might as well go to http://dtp.amazon.com/, list your books for free and let Amazon do all the work in exchange for a cut of the action. Amazon will not charge you for access to the DTP area, or for listing your books, they only take a cut of your sales.

    I emailed Amazon's Kindle Feedback address earlier this week to complain about not being able to upload my own files to the storage area (one of my favorite features is that I can re-download my content at will), expecting to get a canned response. I actually got a person to reply to me, so it looks like at least some of those emails are being read. The person that replied hinted that maybe I wanted to send my files through the 10-cent tax generator, but he would still pass my message to the powers-that-be.

    The one thing that is still completely unacceptable is that the Kindle client for the iPhone only works with purchased work, you can't add your own books (yet) unless you jailbrake your phone.

    --
    Pedro
    ----
    The Insomniac Coder
    1. Re:Big Ado About Nothing by ElaineN · · Score: 1

      Thanks. I hadn't realized that I could use the Kindle to browse to books on manybooks.net and download the .mobi format and read it until I read your post. (I didn't really feel the Kindle was useful until I started using my husbands a few weeks ago, and now I use it more than he.)

      --
      Confused at a higher level, about more important things.
    2. Re:Big Ado About Nothing by FrankN · · Score: 1

      It's amusing to see the outrage from the Kindle's target market of /. readers.

      The first 2 books I purchased for my Kindle 2 were from http://www.webscription.net/. They were downloaded to my PC in .mobi format; drag and dropped via USB to my K2; and both have already been read. The folks at Webscription even have a page on their site explaining how to read their books on the Kindle.

      I'm on my 3rd book now. This one I got from Amazon via the wireless link. I paid $0 for it.

      What I'd love to see is for Google, and others, to recognize the Kindle browser. Google knows the Wii browser, so why not the Kindle? That would make it so much easier to find stuff to download to the Kindle.

      Frank

    3. Re:Big Ado About Nothing by pvera · · Score: 1

      And that's exactly how we became a two-Kindle household. For the first few months my wife wouldn't even look at it. Then one day she finished a book too late to make it to Barnes & Noble to pick the next one. I showed her that the next book was available, much cheaper, on my Kindle.

      Goodbye Kindle.

      After a couple months of fighting over it, the Kindle turned itself into a brick. Warranty replacement was shipped to us that same day, we got it less than 48 hours after it was reported dead. And this also happened the week before the Kindle 2 came out.

      So the week of the Kindle 2 release, I had in my hands a Kindle 1 that was right out of the box, it was not even refurbished. I ordered the Kindle 2 for myself and handed my wife the (now) brand new Kindle 1.

      Two days later the Kindle 2 arrived. She took one look at the K2, then looked at her K1 and decided she would rather have a K2. Dammit.

      I told my friends I was going to put the K1 on eBay. It didn't make it to eBay, one of my friends bought it on the spot and gave it to his teenager daughter. I turned that around and ordered the second K2 for my wife.

      Her K2 was a brick, it was dead within 4 hours. Again Amazon replaced it on the spot. Neither of the two calls to replace the K1 and K2 took more than five minutes. All they did was verify my identity, and make sure I had tried to reboot the device. In each case the replacement unit was shipped next-day air and I was not charged one penny. They emailed me UPS labels and asked me to have the devices returned within 30 days.

      FREE BOOKS

      Since you obviously appreciate free books, next time you go to the Kindle area of amazon.com, sort the books by price. There are a ton of free books listed there. On top of that, subscribe to the official Kindle blog, http://www.amazon.com/gp/blog/A1F8Z0JAEIDVRY/ref=cm_blog_blog because they are listing free books almost every week. For example, World Wide Rave is free right now, and Harlequin posted 10 or so of their books for free to celebrate their 60th anniversary (you can go to their website (http://www.harlequincelebrates.com/) to download these in other formats, this is not a Kindle exclusive).

      --
      Pedro
      ----
      The Insomniac Coder
  39. Why Kindle? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The new foxit reader is not better? i do prefer it, it gives the user more freedom and is cheaper

  40. Car makers can't do that (in the USA) by name_already_taken · · Score: 2, Informative

    Car companies often control the supply of replacement parts.

    Car parts for newer models are often only available from the Original Equipment Manufacturer for a limited time due to licensing agreements between the car maker and the parts makers and the fact that aftermarket parts manufacturers have to tool up to make the new parts.

    In the USA the Federal Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 made tying of the parts to the warranty illegal. The car maker cannot require that you buy their parts or supplies (like Toyota-brand oil or wiper blades for example), and they cannot void your warranty because you used aftermarket parts or supplies unless they can prove that the aftermarket part caused the failure of the vehicle.

    What if I modified my car then release the notes on a web page. Could the manufacture DMCA it down?

    What part of your car is a technical measure intended to protect access to a copyrighted work? None. Plus, a car is real physical property - you can do whatever you want with it. If you do something with it that causes it to break, and you show other people how to do it, you'll just be left with a void warranty (if it was still in effect), but there's not much the car makers can do to make you stop showing others how to break their own cars.

    --
    Putting moderation advice in your .sig lowers your karma!
    1. Re:Car makers can't do that (in the USA) by cdrguru · · Score: 1

      I believe if you created a web page documenting how to disable pollution control devices you may be in violation of a number of federal laws. Serious jail time may result.

      I believe posting instructions on removing a catalytic converter has been tried and resulted in consequences for the distributor of said information.

      My guess is that the state of California has their own penalties in addition to federal ones.

    2. Re:Car makers can't do that (in the USA) by EllisDees · · Score: 1

      >I believe posting instructions on removing a catalytic converter has been tried and resulted in consequences for the distributor of said information.

      I seriously doubt this. I mean, the government can't even keep people from posting instructions on how to make methamphetamine and you think they can stop you from telling people how to modify their car? The first amendment does apply to automotive instructions.

      --
      -- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
  41. Year without DRM by Rinisari · · Score: 1

    Oh, DRM, how we loathe thee.

    Can you go a year without DRM?

  42. Re:Kindle is a piece of shit by mcgrew · · Score: 1

    we're not in kindlegarten anymore!

    Ewe muss bee knew hear!

  43. Re:More useful? To whom? by RickyMaveety · · Score: 1

    Yes, of course, brilliant move. I spend about $1000 a year on books from Amazon for my Kindle. I might spend $7.00 at a non-Amazon source, and only then because I can't find a particular book at Amazon. So, of course it makes perfect sense to drive me away as a customer because I spent that piddling amount at another store. Amazon clearly does not want the money that I was previously spending in their store. At least I hope they won't miss my money, I'm simply going to switch my reading to Public Domain and non-DRM'd sources, and Amazon can find another chump to purchase their products in the future.

  44. Re:Kindle is a piece of shit by Dishevel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    -1 is the only way to read /.

    --
    Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
  45. My opinion, Iliad by Dusty00 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I personally love my Iliad from IRex. It's the most expensive eReader on the market, but the hardware is the most feature advanced (16 shade grayscale long before the Kindle 2, stylus touch screen).

    On the other hand, what I think will end up being it's biggest strength is currently it's biggest weakness, it's OS is Open Source. Near as I can tell, IRex basically launched the product with only the bare minimum features and is looking to the Open Source community to help polish it off. Though they do have their own staff developers working on features what they currently have doesn't make great use of the Iliad's hardware.

    All the same I'm much happier giving my money to a company that doesn't try to tell me what I can do with the device after I've paid for it.

    1. Re:My opinion, Iliad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For that money ($1300 on Amazon) it better be good. I use my Nokia 800 "Internet Tablet" and the FBReader software. Runs linux, easy to program, lots of linux programs available. Bluetooth, wireless, can be had for half of a kindle if you work at it.

  46. In Praise of Real Books by QuoteMstr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I love the sound a new hardcover makes when you open it for the first time; I love being able to take a book camping without worrying that it will be crushed. I love being able to physically browse through everything on my bookshelf and pick something that interests me. Oh, and I love being able to make margin notes and dog-ear pages. I love that I can feel a book's right side become smaller and smaller as I read, and how I can become excited (or nervous) about feeling the ending being near.

    There's just something satisfying about a physical book that I can't replicate with an E-Book. Sure, I'd rather have an E-Book dictionary or cookbook, but you'll pry my narrative paper books from my dead hands.

    1. Re:In Praise of Real Books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That whole right side thing actually bugs the shit out of me every time I use a book.

      They always want to flip closed, and there's no easy way to hold a book in one hand.

      Should I file a bug report for this or is it a 'feature'??

    2. Re:In Praise of Real Books by QuoteMstr · · Score: 1

      Lay-flat bindings can help.

    3. Re:In Praise of Real Books by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's funny, because for me, my ereader (Sony though, not Kindle) has mostly replaced paper books precisely for "narrative" literature, not technical - simply because you really don't need all those fancy extra features such as touchscreen or annotations there, and something simple and relatively cheap, such as PRS-505, does the job very well. And I get to carry my entire library with me, and whenever I'm stuck in a queue or on the bus, decide what I want to read depending on the mood.

      Like it or not, but everything that you've listed is not relevant to the "core" concept of the book, which is really just about text. I fully expect paper books to become luxury items in the next 20-30 years, where you'll have to pay quite a bit of extra for the privilege of "feeling".

    4. Re:In Praise of Real Books by QuoteMstr · · Score: 1

      I fully expect paper books to become luxury items in the next 20-30 years, where you'll have to pay quite a bit of extra for the privilege of "feeling".

      Oh, I agree. You really can't beat the zero marginal cost of an e-book. That said, I'll still purchase at least some of my books as bound sets of paper pages, and there are lots of people like me. We see something like that dynamic today when we compare hardcovers and paperback books: some people buy hardcovers even though the paperback contains the same text, either as a way to support an author, because they want the feel of a more rugged volume, or because they want a book soon after its release.

      e-books will become commodities, sure, but they'll just work as a tier lower than today's paperbacks. Hardcovers will still be around: in fact, I suspect we'll see publishers start to include e-book copies of the text as a way to entice people to buy the very profitable hardcovers.

    5. Re:In Praise of Real Books by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hardcovers will still be around: in fact, I suspect we'll see publishers start to include e-book copies of the text as a way to entice people to buy the very profitable hardcovers.

      They already do that to various degrees. For example, a "C# Programming Language (3rd edition)" hardbook I've purchased recently came with an access code for a free 2-month subscription to that particular book on O'Reilly Safari. Sometimes it's the other way around - I recall purchasing a few technical ebooks where they give you a discount if you later purchase the printed version.

    6. Re:In Praise of Real Books by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 1

      I love the sound a new hardcover makes when you open it for the first time; I love being able to take a book camping without worrying that it will be crushed. I love being able to physically browse through everything on my bookshelf and pick something that interests me. Oh, and I love being able to make margin notes and dog-ear pages. I love that I can feel a book's right side become smaller and smaller as I read, and how I can become excited (or nervous) about feeling the ending being near.

      A kindred spirit. My 12 year old daughter recently delighted me by expressing much the same feelings towards books. She added the heft of the book and the feel of the paper while holding the book as other valuable attributes. We have between 5000 and 6000 real books in the house, and a few hundred ebooks (non-DRM). The kids always request real books in preference to ebooks, for convenience as much as aesthetics.

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    7. Re:In Praise of Real Books by dissy · · Score: 1

      I love the sound a new hardcover makes when you open it for the first time

      Mmmm, the sound of book collectors crying at the sound of devaluing.. I love that too ;}

    8. Re:In Praise of Real Books by omglolbah · · Score: 1

      I hate the accidental ripping when attempting to hold the book in one hand while reading in bed...

      I hate the way my arm cramps after holding several pounds of paper above my head for an hour...

      I hate that I cant find the fucker when I want to read it because it is nowhere to be found...

      I hate lugging around 10 pounds of paper when I'm travelling...

      Yeah... I'd love to have an e-book reader :)

    9. Re:In Praise of Real Books by QuoteMstr · · Score: 1

      I wasn't trolling, dammit. A troll rating is not another way of saying "I disagree with this comment". If you disagree with a comment, reply, or say nothing if you don't want to erase your previous moderation. A troll disrupts the flow of conversation, which my comment did not.

    10. Re:In Praise of Real Books by Breakthru · · Score: 0

      And I get to carry my entire library with me.

      Cool. Can a friend of yours borrow one of your books? http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html

    11. Re:In Praise of Real Books by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Yes, they're are all in .txt format, non-DRMed, obviously.

      Where do I get them? Well, most of them are in Russian, and the numerous Russian online book sellers are perfectly legit (the authors give permission to sell, and get their cut), and will sell you the book in virtually any desirable format, un-DRMed, and with a dozen payment methods available - much like allofmp3.com (though the prices are more realistic - usually about 1/2 to 1/3 of a paper book).

      As for English stuff? Well, when I can't find a legit non-DRMed version, there's always #bookz @ irc.undernet.org...

    12. Re:In Praise of Real Books by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      I fully expect paper books to become luxury items in the next 20-30 years, where you'll have to pay quite a bit of extra for the privilege of "feeling".

      in other words, the crazy high prices of ebooks will stay high and they will jack the prices of real books to utterly insane levels while they crank the DRM to completely obscene levels.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    13. Re:In Praise of Real Books by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      in other words, the crazy high prices of ebooks will stay high and they will jack the prices of real books to utterly insane levels while they crank the DRM to completely obscene levels.

      As usual, the price is whatever people are willing to pay. There's definitely no monopoly on ebook market yet (though Amazon may become it... but I doubt that), and the normal market competition should drive prices to reasonable levels. Whether they are "fair" or not is a pretty nonsensical question.

  47. Re:More useful? To whom? by Shagg · · Score: 1

    Actually, Amazon is taking a loss on the ebooks right now. That's why the kindle version of an ebook is almost always cheaper than alternative formats of the same book.

    Right now they're focused on market share, not profit.

    --
    Unix is user friendly, it's just selective about who its friends are.
  48. Amazon is not the right party to do this by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 1

    Which works by Amazon, for which they hold the copyright and have added a technological measure that restricts access, does this script circumvent?

    It's not the Kindle.

    It's not the books.

    What is it?

    --
    "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
  49. Re:Kindle is a piece of shit by Gizzmonic · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'd leave it at -1 if I were you...sure, there's a bunch of racist and homophobic trolls, but there's also some insightful flamebait that Slashdot mods get too touchy about. Also plenty of hilarious random shit like cookie recipes and weird stories.

    --
    (-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
  50. Amazon illegally tying Kindle with Amazon eBooks? by erroneus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Amazon sells the Kindle. Fine. Amazon sells eBooks. Fine. Amazon wants to restrict what a Kindle OWNER can do with his own hardware? Not fine.

    Either Amazon should back down on this or they should discontinue the Kindle. They can't really do what they are doing without running afowl of some legal crusader in the near future.

  51. I seriously disagree it is supply & demand by way2trivial · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It is the difference between
    the protection of the law which both razors and kindles have,
    and protection "realistic barrier to entry into the marketplace"

    The thing keeping the razor blade model propped up is the design of the connector between handle & blade

    A Gilette Mach XXX* has a very specific design and legally protected-physical connection

    to enter the market/compete against this product requires large capital infusion, on a business level that can easily be knocked down in the court systems

    if anyone could legitimately connect to that- then there would damnfinesure be some competition with generic knockoffs

    Region Free DVD roms' Ebooks, wii's, xbox's jailbroken iphones-- the resources required to do these things are small by comparison

    the fact is, the electrical goods as discussed here (e book files) and elsewhere can be modified on a per piece basis for far less.

    Demand is not a factor-- ease of modification is.

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
    1. Re:I seriously disagree it is supply & demand by LandDolphin · · Score: 1

      So,

      Take up the fight and personally host the tool kindlepid.py and instructions for it. Or are you just a sheep too?

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
  52. It's not quite that simple! by enronman · · Score: 1

    While this tool doesn't break DRM, the files on a specific kindle are locked using the PID of that device. Something that looks up the PID is step one of allowing someone to bypass the DRM.

  53. Ethyl the Aardvark Goes Quantity Surveying by brouski · · Score: 1

    Imagine the market Amazon is missing not carrying the works of Edmund Wells.

    Not to mention Charles Dikkens, the well known Dutch author.

    --
    Proud member of the American Non Sequitur Society. We might not make much sense, but boy do we love pizza!
  54. Re:More useful? To whom? by aaandre · · Score: 1

    Exactly. Follow the money and see what the company's real intentions are.

    The intention was never to release a good e-reader reader to the market. This is a platform for Amazon's proprietary content, that's all.

    Anybody trying to use it as something else will be nudged out of the way to ...Profit!

    Always follow the money. The ad copy is just creative writing.

  55. The ECM by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    What part of your car is a technical measure intended to protect access to a copyrighted work?

    The Engine Control Module contains software which is copyrighted, and it controls most all aspects of the operation of modern vehicles. The code is generally not available for review or modification, and I suspect is protected in at least a basic non-trivial way.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:The ECM by geekoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But I can get another one for my car where I control the software.
      Clearly I void the warranty, but that's where the manufactures influence stops, they don't try and put me in jail.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:The ECM by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

      Yes you can - and then run into emission laws. The OEM module is frequently encrypted and the auto manufacturers do get upset when it's cracked and published.

      --
      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  56. Very nice by Overzeetop · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well said. You get a complimentary lawyer cap for the day.

    I hope the script writer sees this, as it's a very good response to their takedown.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  57. I'd Be Pissed... by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1

    I'd be pissed (and I don't mean drunk) to spend so much money for a Kindle and not be able to read everything available for reading on it. Even iPod plays MP3 tunes from any source.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:I'd Be Pissed... by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 1

      OK, so don't buy one.

  58. I love my Kindle by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 1

    I received my as a gift from my lady friend. I really like it. Yes, it ties me to only purchasing books for it from Amazon but the convenience of the purchases, the low book prices, the knowledge that I'll never be caught without a book (big deal for me) is worth the tethering to a single provider. Someday the market will force it open but for now I am happy.

    When I am using it, I just don't feel that I'm doing evil. I enjoy it. Using the Kindle is voluntary. The free market is working.

    1. Re:I love my Kindle by metamatic · · Score: 3, Informative

      Yes, it ties me to only purchasing books for it from Amazon

      No it doesn't. You can buy DRM-free e-books from fictionwise.com in Kindle-compatible .mobi format that you can just copy onto your Kindle via USB.

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    2. Re:I love my Kindle by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 2, Funny

      I don't care about DRM-free. I like my Kindle and the easiest way to put book on it is at Amazon. I also think the user review network effect at Amazon is the best and most trustworthy that I have seen. I'm staying put because it meets my needs.

    3. Re:I love my Kindle by OFnow · · Score: 1

      Me too, but I wish I could by LOTR on it. Lots of books simply are not available at this time (from Amazon).

    4. Re:I love my Kindle by OFnow · · Score: 1

      buy, not by. I wish I could spell, too.

    5. Re:I love my Kindle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gosh, it's almost like one-stop-shopping at Walmart or buying a PC Pre-Installed with Windows.

    6. Re:I love my Kindle by rochrist · · Score: 1

      Seems to be an awful lot of misinformation floating about, mostly written by people who've never even held a Kindle in their hands.

  59. Re:Amazon illegally tying Kindle with Amazon eBook by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 0

    Nobody has to buy a Kindle. You don't need the heavy hand of the law when everyone votes with their wallet. Let the free market work. I'll enjoy my Kindle while you go Kindless. What's the big deal?

  60. Clever way of doing it. by lattyware · · Score: 1

    The site gets to say 'We took it down nicely like you said.' and it still gets spread all over anyway. They get free publicity, good terms with amazon still, and everyone still gets the tool.
    Gotta love the internet.

    --
    -- Lattyware (www.lattyware.co.uk)
  61. Re:More useful? To whom? by dissy · · Score: 1

    It's not about the Kindle's usefullness to the user, it's about the Kindle's usefullnes to amazon. The Kindle is not where Amazon makes their money, it's on the sale of the ebooks-- if people are buying them from elsewhere, Amazon is not getting their profit, and in fact it may be costing them money-- the Kindle is essentially subsidised by their ebooks.

    And I think I can speak for most of slashdot when I respond:

    Awwwwwwww

  62. Re:Ah, Python! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Thank you for demonstrating why whitespace-significant languages suck.

    I don't get it. All the whitespace came in fine over here.

  63. Modchip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is the same as the mod chip argument, consider if you will:

    Person pirates an eBook, (there are millions of them)
    Person wants to use them on their Kindle
    They use this script to make it work on the kindle.

    Thus the utility encourages copyright infringement, and allows bypassing DRM.

    Exactly what a mod chip in a console does.

  64. Re:Amazon illegally tying Kindle with Amazon eBook by erroneus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The big deal is corporate oppressive behavior. They are abusing the DMCA trying to tell people what they can and can't do with the hardware they own. That would be like buying a car in the U.S. and the car maker trying to tell you that you cannot fix it yourself or rig it to be a hybrid or to use other alternative energy sources or supplements. Or how about Dell telling you that you cannot run Linux or they will file some sort of lawsuit against you?

    When companies can dictate how you use your own stuff, soon they will be telling you what you can and cannot buy... can and cannot own. That path leads to some very ugly places.

  65. Re:More useful? To whom? by HiThere · · Score: 1

    OK. But it also means that I won't be buying ANY of their e-books, as I won't be buying a Kindle.

    Of course, negatives are difficult to measure, so they probably ignore all people with my reaction.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  66. Re:Amazon illegally tying Kindle with Amazon eBook by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 1

    It is not oppressive. Your relationship with Amazon is voluntary. If they really become oppressive then that opens a door for a competitor to take their customers away by being more open.

  67. Only early adopters need be alarmed. by MarkvW · · Score: 1

    Amazon is proving that a market exists for small display devices. This is a valuable service because previous attempts at establishing such a market have failed Mellow out and wait. The technology is exploding right now. Open source readers will soon be coming to a market near you.

    For me, the long term goal is not making the world safe for copyright parasites and leeches. For me the long term goal is cutting out the parasitical middlemen, like the "music industry," the "publishing industry," and the "software industry." We are developing a world where it is technically possible (or becoming technically possible) for creators of art and skill to bring their products DIRECTLY and cheaply to the market at much less expense.

    Amazon, by popularizing ebooks, is helping us get to that world. Their means are brutal, but legal. I won't buy their damn Kindle because it isn't open source, but I must acknowledge that their success with this product is bringing the advent of the open source ebook reader closer to reality.

  68. Re:Amazon illegally tying Kindle with Amazon eBook by erroneus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Threatening legal action against people who want to use their own property in any way they like is not oppressive? The DMCA notices are just the beginning stages before they start filing lawsuits. This makes me wonder if I am actually feeding the troll...

  69. Re:Kindle is a piece of shit by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Which is why I don't see how Amazon plans to build a market for this thing. Let's look at it from a business perspective: First you are trying to sell a kinda pricey device to what all would agree is a very limited market. And THEN you go out of your way to piss off the purchasers by screwing them from using anything but your overpriced content AFTER they just handed you money? Yeah, good luck ith that.

    I can buy a Netbook for the same price or less than a Kindle, and do whatever I WANT to do with it, including reading .txt,.pdf,.html, whatever, and NOT get hamstringed by some corp trying to push overpriced content on me. Why would I want to give you my money for a Kindle now, Amazon?

    I predict this time next year the Kindle will be just as dead as those proprietary ebook readers companies tried to sell during the last dotbomb. you have to know your market and more importantly, know your competition. By screwing their paying customers Amazon just made their product that much more worthless compared to the Netbook. Just not a good move in this economy IMHO.

    --
    ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  70. there is a v2? by sgt+scrub · · Score: 1

    Oh cool. I'm glad Amazon did this. I got version 1 like in November or something. Now I have version 2. Thanks Amazon!

    --
    Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
  71. The blind... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    suing the blind.

    This country roks!

  72. Re:In Praise of Digital books by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I love reading in bed, in the dark, comfortably on my side, turning pages and holding the book with one hand.

    I love cuddling my girlfriend while we both read books. I love having dozens of novels in my pocket and at my fingertips. I love being able to quickly search my books. I love being able to annotate my books without marking them up. I love seeing the progress bar at the bottom shrink as I get closer to the end. I love seeing how much time I've spent reading a book. I love not cutting down trees to read books. I love being able to get books without burning fossil fuels by going to the store, or having them shipped to me. I love turning on my reader and having it instantly in the right place. I love reading in little chunks throughout my day that I couldn't with a paper book.

    Paper books are great for some things, like if you don't have electricity or civilization. They are more common, and aren't drm'd. Libraries carry huge selections of them for free! I still prefer digital books. I've read dozens of them and will keep reading them.

  73. Just say NO to DRM... by JustNiz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    remind me again why I should buy a product that doesn't do what _I_ want???

  74. Re:Amazon illegally tying Kindle with Amazon eBook by EllisDees · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You own the Kindle. You are not breaking Amazon DRM to put anything on the Kindle. Amazon can sit and spin.

    --
    -- Give me ambiguity or give me something else!
  75. Why "fix" DRM when you can remove it? by Xenographic · · Score: 1

    It's interesting how everyone is trying to merely "fix" the DRM rather than to remove the DRM. Sadly, "fixing" the DRM is no less of a DMCA violation, so please don't do either if you're subject to the DMCA.

    But if you were going to violate the DMCA, why on earth would you want to "fix" the DRM even though you'd be left with no book whenever your Kindle dies, rather than decrypting it and having an unencrypted book you can read anywhere?

    This goes double if you live somewhere there is no DMCA. Why would you put up with this crap if you're not legally obligated to?

  76. Re:Ah, Python! by Repton · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The whitespace is present in the source.

    Perhaps more accurately demonstrates why restricted-html web pages as code repositories suck.

    --
    Repton.
    They say that only an experienced wizard can do the tengu shuffle.
  77. Re:Kindle is a piece of shit by pilot1 · · Score: 3, Informative

    And THEN you go out of your way to piss off the purchasers by screwing them from using anything but your overpriced content AFTER they just handed you money? Yeah, good luck ith that.

    I haven't read TFA, of course, but I know for a fact that you can use any content on the kindle as long as it's in one of several formats. Something like html, txt, prc, and mobi, the latter both being ebook formats available from many places. What you can't do is use DRMed content from places other than Amazon, which is what you should expect anyway.

    What this script allows you to do is buy Mobipocket books with DRM from places other than Amazon.

  78. Remember Kids... by BlueStrat · · Score: 2, Funny

    Remember kids,

    "Don't swindle that Kindle!"

    --
    Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
  79. uh, no. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kindles cost $350!!! That is not a loss leader. There's no "new tech" inside. The screen is old, the battery/charing and wireless are old. Nope, no loss leader here. I suspect Sprint is cutting a huge deal on the wireless card and data plan for a piece of each ebook download.

    The PS3 had a **VERY** expensive BlueRay player included. That loss was only during the first 18 months, then the price per unit dropped below the sales price and is going lower and lower now.

  80. get a netbook and install ubuntu by alizard · · Score: 1

    with whatever drivers are needed to support the specific hardware.

    Install fbreader via repository to read conventional non-DRM-broken ebooks in things like mobi format. I read the non-DRM stuff I buy from Baen Books from it and it works very, very well.

    A pdf reader should be installed by default, install Acroread if you really like it. You can read text content with a text editor like gedit or kwrite depending on your window manager.

    To read DRM-broken content, get Mobipocket for Windows or break the DRM and read it on fbreader. The bad news for those who get the Mobipocket Reader software is that it works on Crossover Office ... but not terribly well. (IIRC, it crashes and freezes a lot). If you actually get Virtualbox and run XP on it, this should work... but you'll have one really busy CPU, I chose not to try installing it on a 900 MHz netbook.

    Do this and you have a convenient sized lightweight Linux PC that also can do anything else you can do with Linux and download/install any of tens of thousands of Open Source programs automatically. AND play multimedia video and music files.

    Downside... you have to be within reach of an access point or have a broadband USB dongle and an account on somebody's data network for most-of-the-time access to get more books. So get enough books and tech literature and music and video loaded so you are generally in no particular rush to get any specific book.

    Buy a Kindle and you've got something that makes profit for Amazon... and does nothing but read books in .azw format. (the conversion to azw takes place as an Amazon service they can dump any time)

  81. Yep, that's the lie... by tkrotchko · · Score: 1

    "Do you think that my carrier gave me a discount or let me sign up without a contract because I did this? Pffft, fat chance. "

    Yep, the idea that the phones are subsidized is a lie, if you consider that if you renew past 1 or 2 years with a carrier with the same phone they don't give you a discount on monthly service.

    It's more like the cheap phone is an incentive to sign with them in the first place, but the cost of the service is the same regardless of the price of the phone.

    --
    You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
  82. Wait for Googles Ebook Reader! by Snaller · · Score: 1

    What have I heard?

    Nothing.

    But they are sure to bring one on the market eventually - just think of the many books they have already scanned!

    --
    If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
  83. Re:Kindle is a piece of shit by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

    Nooooo.....What this is doing is allowing content that the OWNERS of the Kindle have ALREADY purchased to be used on their $%^% $350 ebook reader, which Amazon just hamstringed. I mean, who in the hell would pay $350 for an ebook reader and THEN go out of their way to buy DRMed content that WON'T work with the device they just spent good money on. Does that make any sense?

    Nope, this is just another corp doing that "It's a license not a sale" crap, which means the Kindle is a $350 rental, since they will just hamstring any new ideas for the thing that some PHB doesn't approve of with DMCA. If I was a seller of Netbooks I would jump all over this. hell, the ad copy writes itself "With our Netbooks, the second they leave our store they are YOURS to do with as you please. Find a new way to do something cool with it? Host it on our servers and we'll help you share it with your fellow users! Unlike Amazon and the Kindle, We care about your happiness and WANT you to get the most out of your devices! Buy now!"

    Pulling crap like DMCA on your customers is never smart, but in this economy? Pure suicide. With all the bad press and angry bloggers they might as well just flush the damned things. While I thought an Ebook reader at the right price point($350 sure isn't the sweet spot. I would say more like $100) might be a good way to market books. After the crap we have seen from the publishers followed by BS like this, I'd say Ebooks will NEVER become a decent market. Too many blood suckers in suits, too blinded by their own greed to grow the market, will doom the Ebook idea to failure.

    It looks like they are going to shove the DRM similar to the way they tried to shove WMA and all the other crap DRM formats during the 90s. And we all see how well THAT worked out. My prediction still stands: In one year the Kindle will be another dead product selling for change like the other dotbomb e-readers. Yet again greed destroys a market, as seems to be the way with anything to do with the arts these days.

    --
    ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  84. Re:More useful? To whom? by stephanruby · · Score: 1

    the Kindle is essentially subsidised by their ebooks.

    This is not an Xbox we're talking about, this isn't even an eMachine, this is a Kindle! Even the Kindle 2 is not all that. If I can mail-order one of those powerful cute little PCs for less than $400 -- with no strings attached, then I would expect far more freedom from a device in the same price range -- that's vastly simpler and cheaper to produce.

    If the Kindle is still the property of Amazon after you've taken it home with you, then they should make that perfectly clear when you're first paying $400 for it. They should say, $400 only gets you the option to lease the device, Amazon reserves the right to repossess its private property whenever it feels like it, for whatever reason, etc. Again, this is a lease or a loan, but not a sale, the way Amazon is treating it.

  85. rightly so by Corson · · Score: 1

    "the purpose of the script is to make the Kindle more useful to its users" -- but the purpose of Amazon.com, like any other corporation, is to maximize its profits.

  86. More fun... by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

    http://pastebin.com/fc53f5e8 This is the one that I prefer. I own a Kindle and many books for it too but for archival this is what I'll be using.

    --
    Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  87. Re:Kindle is a piece of shit by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

    Spoken as someone who has never used and likely never seen a Kindle. I own a Kindle1, have used a Kindle2, and own a NetBook as well as an iPhone. Guess which one I spend HOURS reading on. Hint: The one that can last for 8++ hours without eyestrain! ePaper!=LCD screen.

    --
    Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  88. Clever judo move. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By seemingly giving in to the pressure and printing a new story about their capitulation, they are actually increasing the numbers of people who are hearing about this script for the first time by millions of people. It is still available and easy to find and use. Just because this one site no longer has it is meaningless.

  89. Re: NO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No for serious ebook reading PDF is NOT an inferior format. It's a very flexible one. As PDF files can retain layout, and text can be made to size for whatever you like, you can create a great PDF file to fit the 7". If you are used to PDFs being generated from letter size documents at 12pt type, then you might think so. But I can format a document to whatever I like, and it will be just as readable, and can contain extras that books will eventually have on readers. Right now, it's all about what works. You like text, but these readers are going to be serious multimedia readers. I'm excited for when the designs of books are just as beautiful. Color is coming, PDFs support video, animation, interactivity.
    PDF files are generally bigger than text documents, still you get the image of the page and the type fonts that you want. Depending on the book, it's important. don't turn your opinion into fact.

  90. I will NEVER buy anything from Amazon again. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And I take this position as a result of reading about their actions described in the article.

    This sort of corporate ugliness leaves a lasting impression on people, believe me.

    I haven't bought a Sony product after the way they left me high and dry with my Clie, and I can live my life just fine without ever buying a Sony product again.

    And the same goes for Amazon.

    It's tempting to direct a few choice words toward Jeff Bezos,
    but I'll let someone else do that.

  91. So... yeah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So... I'm willing to bet the reason this was done was because Amazon got THEIR shit in trouble putting the voice system on the kindle in the first place because audio-book people cried. And now rather then soak up lawsuits for all of you, they are disableing some of them that are illegal to work with.

    But lets whine about DMCA's in cases where it's not applicable, and further water down the importance of dealing with real abuse.

    Everyone's a fucking white knight, no one knows how to play chess.

  92. Re:Kindle is a piece of shit by Meski · · Score: 1

    ePaper, just another marketing spin.

    I've spent hours reading on a htc Diamond, without noticeable eyestrain. And no, I don't use Microsoft's reader software.

  93. CyBook by publicworker · · Score: 1

    I have a CyBook from Bookeen and as a simple e-book reader it is excellent. It has an e-ink display, supports mobi-pocket files and has rudimentary pdf and html support. I've even managed to convert scientific articles from html to mobi and to read on there - figures, equations and all.

    It runs on Linux, but the mobi-pocket reader is proprietary.

  94. Re:Amazon illegally tying Kindle with Amazon eBook by Budenny · · Score: 1

    Or maybe, what about Apple telling you on what hardware you may install your purchased retail copy of OSX?

    That's different of course. Silly. Very silly. Apple is a hardware company, after all.

  95. I think... by Anachragnome · · Score: 1

    "Ironically, the purpose of the script is to make the Kindle more useful to its users."

    I think someone missed the memo....

    "...And henceforth, "Right and Wrong" shall be immediately replaced with "Makes Money and Doesn't Make Money" in all further documentation matters associated with the "Company"(see terms listed in the "Company" Handbook glossary)."

  96. Re:Kindle is a piece of shit by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

    Terrific, try it on an ePaper display. Call it what you want but it's not just another LCD. the newer Kindle has even greater resolution and sharpness too - just not enough that I need to upgrade. side by side the difference is noticeable but I still get good mileage from the old one - and with scripts to remove the DRM I'm not worried about obsolescence just yet.

    --
    Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  97. Rich people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rich people - History tells - are apprently stupid.

    Amazon people are rich people.

  98. Re:More useful? To whom? by BLKMGK · · Score: 1

    Citation please - how are they losing money? It costs them jack to sell a book electronically and you know all of that sale isn't going to the publishers. How exactly are they losing money on eBooks?

    --
    Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  99. Re:Amazon illegally tying Kindle with Amazon eBook by Kashgarinn · · Score: 1

    Yeah, they should realize that trying to tie up the kindle specifically to the ebooks they sell is the wrong idea.

    What they should do is:
    1) They should strive to make the best e-book reader possible and sell it on its own merits and not expect to tie it into the ebook profits.

    2) They should strive to offer the best value/volume of e-books available and make their e-book marketplace the go-to place when you want to find and buy a book.

    3) They should strive to offer the best "library" of free books available to be the go-to place for free books and make that stand on its own feet (as in not tie it to the profit/losses of the other 2).

    - This would mean that people who buy Kindle even though they can get their books elsewhere the mere fact that amazon delivered the kindle, they will check out amazon for book purchases.

    - This would also mean that because people can go to the same place to download free books, people would be exposed to 2) I can easily imagine links from one free e-book to other books both free and buyable of similar value (or links to the dvds or hardcover books as presents, or whatever else).

    It's easy to do this so that amazon gains immensely and doesn't suffer from the "I'm doing evil for profit", but that means that they have to un-bundle the package, and make the individual elements stand on their own and succeed on their own.

    They have to view the kindle similar to what electric companies do, they provide a basic service from which new opportunities can be built upon.

    they have to view the e-book as a container for free stuff as well as purchasable stuff, be the best place to go for both free and buyable and you get more people interested in and buying books because you're exposing the people who are only interested in the free stuff to new buyable stuff, and vice versa, making sure that you're a relevant place to do business whether the e-book is free or buyable.

    That's why it's important that all 3 targets can support themselves, because if they can't, you get a bundle-idealogy, and that just pisses off too many people to be worth it.

  100. Re: NO by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

    No for serious ebook reading PDF is NOT an inferior format. It's a very flexible one. As PDF files can retain layout, and text can be made to size for whatever you like, you can create a great PDF file to fit the 7"

    Of course you could *create* a PDF that would render nicely on one specific device. But that's not terribly helpful when you're trying to read scanned documents... you know, the types of documents the GP wants to read?

    And ignoring that, the whole point of ebooks is to flexibly display on multiple different devices with different screen sizes and resolutions (this is particularly important with Kindle's whispersync capability, which allows one to read the same book on both your phone and your Kindle... devices with completely different displays). This requires dynamic reflow and dynamic font size adjustment, and you can do neither of these things with PDF today (Adobe is going to add reflow support to PDF, but it requires the PDF be specifically authored with reflow capability).

    Of course, there's one other type of content out there that needs to be rendered on multiple different types of devices while still supporting rich content, including images and video: HTML. Similarly, the correct solution for ebooks is marked up text with embedded content, probably something XML-based. This will allow the reader to adapt the content for it's capabilities, just like a web browser does today, rather that being tied down to a fixed layout ala PDF.

  101. Misleading post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This post implies two things that are incorrect. First, it implies Kindles can only read Amazon purchased content. This is not true. Kindles can read a number of freely available formats, like doc, txt, prc, pdb, mobi, and html. Second, this article implies that all this python script will do is let the Kindle read non-Amazon content. This is also untrue. This script is specifically for fooling the DRM of a purchased book for the Sony ereader to make it readable on the Kindle. As such it could reasonably be considered a circumvention of DRM. I myself think that if you buy an ebook you should be able to read it on any device you choose.

  102. Definite Articles by HTH+NE1 · · Score: 1

    I'm sure that their motive has nothing to do with whether it makes the kindle "more useful". This threatens their monopoly market for the books.

    You missed a word there. I added it for you.

    No I didn't, smartass. Amazon does not have a monopoly on books, and nobody's forcing you to buy their reader.

    Then you apparently used one word too many: the word "the".

    This threatens their market for <strike> the </strike> books.

    Happy now, buddy?

    --
    Oh, say does that Star-Spangled Banner entwine / The myrtle of Venus with Bacchus's vine?
  103. Re:Kindle is a piece of shit by james_orr · · Score: 1

    Every e-book I've checked has had the same price or lower (and usually lower) on amazon. The only real use for this script was if you had e-books you'd purchased elsewhere before you got the kindle (because after it would have been cheaper to buy it from amazon). My wife has a netbook, no way I would/could read a book on it as easily as I can on my kindle. Reading on a back-lit screen just sucks compared to e-ink, even the 4 shades on my kindle 1.