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Stardock, Microsoft Unveil Their Own New Anti-Piracy Methods
Island Dog sends news that shortly after Valve showed off their new anti-piracy methods in Steamworks, Microsoft and Stardock were quick to demonstrate their new, similar technologies as well. All three companies are bending over backwards to say that this is not traditional DRM. Stardock (the company behind the Gamer's Bill of Rights) calls their system Game Object Obfuscation (Goo), "a tool that allows developers to encapsulate their game executable into a container that includes the original executable plus Impulse Reactor, Stardock's virtual platform, into a single encrypted file. When a player runs the game for the first time, the Goo'd program lets the user enter in their email address and serial number which associates their game to that person as opposed to a piece of hardware like most activation systems do. Once validated, the game never needs to connect to the Internet again." Microsoft's update to Games for Windows Live has similar protections. "You can sign in and play your game on as many systems as possible, but you have to have a license attached to your account. Of course, this only works for online games."
Steam still kicks their trash up and down the field. Just wish they would allow more association of retail keys to accounts.
It's GOOd... *ducks*
Yeah. Would you choose a neurosurgeon who pokes around people's brains in his spare time? I wouldn't.
"Goo" for Game Object Obfuscation?!? Why not simply Controled Update Management?
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
An online game that never needs to connect to the internet again?!? My brains just asploded...
Basically this is what WoW has been able to do for all these years making mad money. You tie the license to an account. But it's true that online games are the only winners of this strategy. This is not intrusive either and does not prevent you from installing the game everywhere you want. I approve.
Whoever first injected DRM (and all the related schemes) into the product development process was absolutely brilliant. It's like making a car that will fall apart a year after the warranty runs out, thereby encouraging the buyer to come back and buy a new car except, in this case, the car falls apart days after being released into the wild meaning the company needs to continue employing their DRM team so they can come up with yet a new scheme that will again crumble in a matter of days. It's planned obsolescence at warp speed. Pure brilliance. Whoever got the DRM ball rolling has guaranteed that they'll have work for as long as companies think that DRM will actually work, which appears to be a very long time, despite evidence to the contrary...
It associates your account with the game the first time you run it? How does this combat piracy? Almost all software that is available for piracy is the pre-installation package.
What problem is this bulky, resource eater solving?
Stuff like this makes me feel less bad about Linux not being the same sort of PC
gaming platform that Windows is. If these sorts of shenanigans are a part of the
bargain then I would rather just stick to a Wii or a PS3 plugged into my 60" TV
in the living room.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
That's rather telling. "DRM is bad. DRM is what stops me from stealing software." Nice to see you address the issue directly, at that.
It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
Seriously, these protections that are "not DRM" still manage my rights to things that are digital. However unintrusive these things are to my system, they are still doing the same thing and therefore this re-branding of it is just stupid.
Hopefully people are bright enough to see through this little marketing exercise.
To defeat this system, all I need to do is to "share" my email account with other folks, or just setup an account just for game purposes. What about that?
On Xbox Live your content is tied to both an account an to some extent the hardware. You can run anything you've downloaded on your original hardware both and on and offline. If you want to run it on another Xbox however you need to be online.
Why not use this same system for PC games?
Obviously you have problems with upgrades, but they currently allow you to transfer your DRM between Xbox console once a year (if my memory serves me correctly.
Maybe tied it to a combination of processor, motherboard and GPU and if 2 of the three change you need to transfer?
Although at the end of the day what I'm propossing is still DRM so I can't see Slashdot getting on board with it.
Such an unfortunate choice of acronym. Pity they did not choose on that is truly reflective of the gaming platform they are pushing. Platform Object Obfustcation. Even Peer Encrypted Encapsulation would have been better.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
The ability to "steal" content unfortunately is a necessary part of it being accessable and usable.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Oh, you can steal the software, just walk into Gamest... (no, not Gamestop, my daughter manages one)... er, Best Buy and shoplift a copy. That's the only way to steal software.
You might have a hard time infringing its copyright. You would also have a hard time excersizing your right to resell what you bought and paid for, should you decide to buy it rather than shoplift.
It was smart of you to post AC, so nobody would know who the dumbass that doesn't understand the difference between stealing and infringing copyright is.
Free Martian Whores!
I hate things that tie to an email address. I have used at least three different email providers over the years that have gone out of business. When they do I have to go through pain and suffering to get services that are tied to these accounts switched to a new email address. Especially ones that send an email to your old email address for verification of the switch.
I've been saying that for years now. Stardock/Impulse/etc. are DRM. They limit the ability to distribute digital media.
You still need an internet connection to enable it from the wording in the summary. What happens when that server is no longer alive? How am I to play the game? What if I don't have internet when I install it on my laptop on a plane to play when I'm bored?
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
What if I decide that I played the game enough and I want to give or sell it to somebody else? Must I give them my email account as well? Or what if I decide to give it to by kid/brother/wife/dog so he can start using it on his/her/its PC?
And what if I buy a new PC after I changed providers, so I don't have my old email address anymore?
It manages my rights digitally, so it is just a different kind of Digital Rights Management. Perhaps they have forgotten what DRM stand for?
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Which Gamestop? I want to see if they have Battletoads.
The ability to "steal" content unfortunately is a necessary part of it being accessable and usable.
Just when I'm out of mod points...
But yes, that's exactly it: if it's not usable after theft, it's probably also not usable after something else went wrong.
As far as I understand, GOO does require online activation, which means that after Stardock goed bankrupt, you probably won't be able to install it on a new machine anymore. And if you are able to install it on new machines without requiring Stardock's permission, that pretty much means you can "steal" it.
Probably the third time I've written this, but the solution to the rampant piracy on the PC gaming platform is simply to offer the games as subscription downloads via a service such as Steam.
Effectively you would rent the game - Depending on how much you pay per month, you get a set amount of refundable credits to spend on the games. Newer games would cost more, whilst older titles would cost less. You could play as many games as your tokens permit, and revoke your rent on a game once you're done with it; or, more importantly, when you discover it is not for you or doesn't work well on your system. I'm lucky to own a console. I've bought PC games in the past, played them for a couple of weeks, gone off them but am effectively stuck with them. With my PS3 games, I just sell them back to the shop.
Additionally, the service could offer things like trophies and achievements (yes, I know Windows Lives already does this). Throw in a few classics that are free to play (such as Doom and Quake) and you've got a system with a lot of appeal.
The nice thing about this service is that, because it's a subscription, you can play the games on any machine by just logging into your account. There's probably a major, major flaw with this idea... but it looks good on paper.
THE HONOUR OF THE KNIGHTS - CC Licensed Sci-Fi Novel
Make it too difficult for the average guy to deal with the projects and the public will demand its removal. Or they will just buy from other companies.
Until DRM is mandated by the government ( which may happen here soon ) there is still a choice.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I've used Stardock's Impulse a little bit and while I can't comment on all games on it, the 3 I have it works quite well. You can tie a license key to an account, however I have installed and played 2 of the 3 offline never connecting to the internet to play or install, simply by entering the license key in the normal installation. Then I can then tie it to Stardock Impulse which will automatically tell me about updates and help me install them. To register it with Impulse I simply entered the license key again with the online component. In fact Impulse recognized that I had the game installed and asked me if I wanted to add it into the system.
Also, I can then log into stardock impulse on any other computer and it will allows me to re-download and install the game on that one as well. Well I've only done it for one so far, Sins of a Solar Empire, so again I can't comment for all games.
In fact, I play offline all the time and only fire up Impulse (I haven't needed to run it to play the games) when I check for updates.
Thats the major point here that those other systems don't have:
"It opens the door to gamers being able to resell their games because users can voluntarily disable their game access and transfer their license ownership to another user."
Of course, this could also mean that publisher are less interested in using it as the other systems actively prevent a second hand market (which in their eyes means more copies sold).
... is unlikely to increase sales significantly. Making good games on the other hand most definitely will.
Spend your time making games I want to play and I'll buy them. The people pirating your games usually either can't afford them, will never buy them anyway, or simply want a demo that isn't too short or extremely buggy.
With GOO, you are able to decouple your e-mail from the game and transfer ownership.
Did anyone else think of Grey Goo when he read the bit about Stardock's "Goo"?
Ironically, their method sounds a bit like safedisc. You know...encrypt the executable file? But how does it work? When someone changes their email address, does that change follow with this? I'm guessing potentially not.
Another thing: Is it just me, or is it coincidence that MS, Valve, and Stardock (I've never heard of these guys) all happen to have DRMv2 far enough along that they can try to get their "Me Too"'s in?
Disclaimer: The opinions and actions of the US Gov't are in no way representative of those held by this author or its ci
That's where every DRM system fails: If you can't steal it, then you also probably can't buy it and use it. Broken is broken, regardless of intent.
The capacity to copy DVDs, is what gave me the capacity to play them. When DeCSS came out, I started buying DVDs.
My lack of capacity to access Bluray discs is what keeps me from copying them, but it's also what keeps me from being able to play them. When I get a HD TV, if I can't access (play) Blurays, then I'm not going to buy any. I'll just pirate them.
Oh, you can steal the software, just walk into [...] Best Buy and shoplift a copy. That's the only way to steal software.
Well I prefer the other way, go to the developer HQ, and take all copies of source code and art there. That's what I call software theft, why stop at a copy ?
I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
Not a traditional DRM
Um...sure guys. Whatever you say.
How do you define "traditional". From my end, I don't get to see the implementation details, just whether or not I can run the game/program without any hassles and maintain my anonymity. If you're forcing me to identify myself or otherwise check in with you, it's still traditional DRM.
Get a clue. If the game phones home at any point, I don't buy it.
Disclaimer: The opinions and actions of the US Gov't are in no way representative of those held by this author or its ci
Your real name wouldn't happen to be Axel Gembe, would it? ;)
Demented But Determined.
Take all that gamer angst and use the energy to find legally free alternatives for games you like. In the many cases where alternative don't exist or just suck, help the developers make them suck less. It's the only long-term solution.
mmmm...forbidden donut
That being said, what happens if someone steals your account and cheats or something like that?
I've mentioned it before and here again, I'd like to see token authentication with an RSA key fob or similar like paypal currently has.
They only cost $5 and you have a secured connection where only you can log in. Yes it's a hassle for some, but you don't have to make everyone use it. Just those of us who want to use it should.
After all, my account has a considerable investment with at least $1000 worth of games at the moment. I want to protect that investment.
They're using their grammar skills there.
According to TFA, the authentication mechanism is supposed to be open so that any non-Stardock server can support it. I'm assuming that setting up a new server would require some type of permission from the publisher, but there weren't many details about how that would work.
Hell is other people's code.
Since the validation happens only once, does that mean that I can take the game and run it on any computer I want? how does that help combat piracy?
ummm yeah... "Once validated, the game never needs to connect to the Internet again." more fun for crackers.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
I could care less about DRM, but I hate three things:
(1) I hate programs that require me to have the DVD in the computer when playing.
(2) I hate programs that don't shut down all processes when not in use.
(3) I hate programs that don't completely uninstall when I attempt to uninstall them.
Since this kind of DRM addresses my concerns---I LIKE IT!
But I have such a better idea than this. Simply, you create a special tool that make runs before executing the compiler or linker. This special tool reads in your source file and basically places each and every function in a separate translation unit. These are compiled into object files. Any given game will have thousands of different functions in it, so you'll get thousands of object files. Now you set up your linker to link these objects together a few hundred thousands of times (this will require a grid if you're in a hurry), each time giving you a unique executable that is a unique permutation of the order of the object files. Each permutation will have to be associated with a number in a database. The game is ONLY sold online. You have to download it. When you do, you receive a unique executable image that NOBODY ELSE HAS. Your name, billing address, and credit card information are then associated with the ID number of that executable in the database. The game producer monitors all the warez sites for images of their games. When they find them, they know exactly from which of their customers each copy originated. Knowledge that this is the case will prevent MOST people from copying the game. Only hard-core pirates will try. As an added benefit, the fact that each executable is unique will prevent (or make it extremely difficult) to distribute patches that modify the behavior of the game. Once purchased and downloaded, you NEVER have to activate, you NEVER have to be online, you NEVER have to do anything. Pay, download, back it up to a CD or something, and enjoy.
The ability to "steal" content unfortunately is a necessary part of it being accessable and usable.
How true that is. When you look at the effort involved in keeping all your little registration codes straight for buying games online or keeping all CD's paired with their authentication keys versus pirating a game, piracy is the least hassle hands down. They're teaching everyone the wrong lesson here.
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
Thank you. If the game has to connect to the internet before the game is started, and it is not optional, it is DRM and I will not buy it. End of story.
Stardock is pretty good about that. But this new system they have in the summary forces you to get checked online first. I guess I'm not buying any of their games anymore.
So, I guess this means no more secondhand PC games.
Confidentiality, Integrity, Availability: without Availability the other two are assured, as is Bankruptcy.
This is Bad News for me.
I like computer games. I have been buying games for years. I spent over $1000 for my Atari800 games. I spent over $1500 for my Amiga games. I spent that much for just MSDOS games. I have spent at least $2000 for Windows games. I have purchased many of the commercial games available for Linux.
I want to play my computer games. I still go back to games that I purchased years ago. Most of the time, I can use emulation/virtualization to enjoy a good game as long as I like.
At this point I have hundreds of data-points that show that the normal state of a game is unsupported. The normal state of a game developer is shutdown.
As far as I can tell, any game that requires on-line activation might as well be a rental. Just as soon as I start to like it, it will become unsupported. I would like to play Spore, but there appears to be no point. As soon as I start to enjoy it, it will be gone. The same thing goes for most of the current crop of 'activation required' games.
Fortunately, I already own a LOT of really good games that I can play however I want, anytime I want. The last week, I have been playing Starships Unlimited 3. Plays great in Wine! if you like turn-based strategy, you should pick up a copy from:
http://apezone.com/starshipsunlimited.php
before they go out of business.
Miles
"Once validated, the game never needs to connect to the Internet again."
"Of course, this only works for online games."
Yeah, lots of sense here.
Basically it's just a different way to implement DRM.
____
nico
Nico-Live
You didn't actually address GP's concerns though. The fact that you initially have to activate the game online at all is restrictive. Maybe not so much now, but what about ten years down the road when you install the game for nostalgia's sake and the lisence server has been long since taken down?
If you don't think this will be a problem, and that these games will be able to be activated online until the end of time, then you need to wake up and pay attention to the history of DRM. There are already plenty of examples of servers being shut off, leaving people without access to the media they paid for.
Or maybe you just only play modern games. That's OK, as long as you realize that a good percentage of gamers out do pick up the older stuff every once in a while.
Just because they claim it's not tradition DRM, doesn't mean that their new thing is "better".
I don't have an Xbox (no TV) - I only play on my buddy's 360. He's got a platinum account, so we've had him just buy all the games/extra content we want. Notably, Penny Arcade's two installments, and Bring Down The Sky for Mass Effect. We split the cost since I don't want or need the super-duper-special account where MS gets to keep my credit card on file.
Then he upgraded his 360 to a more recent model he found dirt cheap (bigger drive, HDMI?, etc).
Turns out that if you buy anything on Xbox Live, the things that you buy are good for all users only on the first Xbox you download them to. If you buy a newer Xbox360 and transfer your accounts, the downloaded stuff is only good for the user account that made the purchase.
Seems like it would be easy to allow legitimate folks to deactivate downloaded content on the old Xbox first, then transfer to the new Xbox.
But this is Microsoft*, so I'm not going to hold my breath.
(* - currently, you can download something to an Xbox, then disconnect it from the network. In theory this Xbox would be able to run downloaded stuff forever for all accounts on it, which could be used to "pirate" games. As long as it was never connected again. But this seems like a sophomoric design flaw to me than anything else, so the preventing of download transfers to a new Xbox for all users seems to me to be a kluge-workaround for a loophole that could've been easily prevented with a little forethought in the first place.)
Yo, everyone! Microsoft, Stardock, Adobe, Sony, and all the rest of you. I've got an idea on how you can make money here. Listen carefully, because this is very tricky.
What you need to do is sell me something that I can take home and use!
Sell me a program, let me install it and use it.
Sell me a CD, let me put it in the car and listen to it.
In short, QUIT SCREWING AROUND WITH DRM! It does NOTHING but make me less inclined to pay for your damned products! Even moreso if I need an internet connection to authorize stand-alone store-purchased software.
Oh, and a SPECIAL note for Adobe: Quit telling me every time I start a program that I REALLY REALLY should register for your online photoshop service which isn't available in my country!
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
You are correct sir.
I remember the good old days, when you did not have to beg for permission to use the software you paid for.
CASH is the transaction. I'm not paying for your bullshit harrasment and limits on my freedom. If you're going to limit my freedom, then limit the fee at which you demand for your wicked software.
This is, of course, ignoring the fact that 10-15 year old games are routinely played on computers today.
I bought Sins of a Solar Empire because Stardock seemed to be above the whole DRM game, at the time. And whereas Sins runs well under Wine, Impulse does not, because of some stupid IE7 requirement. Still, I was able to play their recent Entrenchment expansion by installing it under Windows and copying it over (along with the registry keys), so I guess all is not lost.
I'll stick to buying used classic PC games. These idiots aren't getting a dime from me!
Not sure who is being a dumbass here. Stealing and theft as English words (not as a legal concepts) apply perfectly validly to a variety of uses that have nothing to do with tangible property or depriving the victim of its use: "he stole my idea", "identity theft" etc. Look them up in a dictionary. Yes, I'm aware that courts have made a distinction between theft and copyright infringement but precise legal terminology is a different thing from the language in common use. This is a fortunate thing or else non-lawyers among us would have a hard time understanding each other.
Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
From reading the summary, it says that once the game has been authenticated it never needs to phone home again. It seems to me like that should be pretty easy to circumvent. How does the authentication scheme really work? On some level, there has to be a function that checks whether or not the authentication was successful, right? What is to stop someone from firing up a debugger, finding the call to the authentication validation, and then patching it?
DRM isn't about preventing piracy. It's about showing consumers who's boss.
You are welcome on my lawn.
When somebody copies the data out of a bank database they didn't legally acquire, and media calls it "Stealing customer data", no one blinks an eye at it.
When somebody copies the data of a game they didn't legally acquire, and ANYONE calls it "Stealing a game", people get up in arms.
"Stealing" doesn't require tangibility (steal a kiss, steal an election, steal someones thunder, etc)
Not sure who is being a dumbass here. Stealing and theft as English words (not as a legal concepts) apply perfectly validly to a variety of uses that have nothing to do with tangible property or depriving the victim of its use: "he stole my idea", "identity theft" etc.
That's true, but copyright infringement is only "theift" to someone wanting to load the language for political purposes. Everyone knows that "stealing an idea" isn't really stealing and that identity thieves don't become the person whose identity they've stolen, but those who call copyright infringement "theift" see no difference between stealing a CD and downloading it from Pirate Bay. Equating copyright infringement with theift is a dishonest use of language, that, may I say, only the dishonest use.
Free Martian Whores!
I 'obtain' millions of records about customer data from a financial institution, and brand it with the words "stealing customer data"-- and this is a dishonest use of language?
There's a not well-known game called Two Worlds, which I actually liked better than Oblivion, truth be told. They have an online activation thing, like Vista, but it's a one-time deal, and they have promised to release a patch killing the activation if for whatever reason they stop support for the game.
Every company that uses Dumb Restrictions on Media should do this, and stick to it.
with the Stardock implementation you only need to access the server once (usually at the time of installation). After that as long as program is on the same HD, you should be able to use it.
Even if you move that hard drive to a different computer?
-- The Wanderer
My experience with Stardock says no. It was with Galactic Civilization and they created a binary key file that resided in the same folder as the executable. If the game detected that your machine didn't match the key file, it prompted for re-activation.
Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
If I understand the Stardock system, once you've paid for and activated the download, it's permanently transformed into a usable game, and can be copied as much as you want. There's no registration code to keep straight (IIRC, Stardock keeps it's own database of what your registration codes are, so it you lose everything they can give them to you again).
This sounds like the ideal system to me:
* Download a file from the Game co or FilePlanet or wherever, that needs a key to unlock.
* Game co sells you activation of what you download (no phoning home ever again), and will let you re-activate as often as you please.
* You can copy the activated game as often as you please.
* If you want to play with friends, eveyone needs a different activation key, so piracy is somewhat limited.
* If an activated game shows up on a warez site, the Game co can associate it with the person who bought the key.
The last is incredibly useful to deter piracy for one key reason: without any legal authority, merely contacting the owner of the credit card that paid for the game and telling them that "the game is being illegaly copied and they should probably stop that" will be remarkably effective if it's a parent that paid for the game, and their kid who's sharing it.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
s/goed/will have gone/
No, I'm not a native speaker, why do you ask?
Next thing I know I'll be required to plug my old skool Scrabble, Chess, Monopoly, Twister, Clue etc board games into the internet in order to unlock them to play. Oh and don't forget any friends I choose to invite over to play will have to have their own account licenses too....sorry little Billy, no internet access...no credit card..NO Hungry Hungry Hippos!
The one Little Feat sings about in "Oh, Atlanta"
Free Martian Whores!
But what are the odds?
Everyone always says "After company X goes bankrupt, it'll be worthless." - but really, what are the odds that Stardock/Valve/Microsoft/Blizzard/etc. will go under?
I think you're all paranoid. These companies have been around for years - they clearly have some smart people leading them.
(...Microsoft chairmen excluded. :P )
Piracy isnt about avoiding DRM, its about showing the companies who's boss.
Good-bye
And that's exactly as it should be, considering that we (the People) are the boss of copyright law.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I assume you mean "remarkably effective" in the sense of the kid getting punished (and therefore being less likely to share other games in the future) rather than the sense of undoing the distribution of the already-shared game, right?
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
But what are the odds?
Everyone always says "After company X goes bankrupt, it'll be worthless." - but really, what are the odds that Stardock/Valve/Microsoft/Blizzard/etc. will go under?
I think you're all paranoid. These companies have been around for years - they clearly have some smart people leading them.
What are the odds of AIG going under?
What are the odds of Lehman going under?
These companies have been around for over 100 years.
Even if you look at tech, 10 or so years ago, it would have been hard to imagine Sun or SGI disappearing (even 3dfx in its heyday -- I would put 3dfx on the same standing as Stardock / Valve in your list). Now its not so hard to imagine.
There are two key differences that make that situation entirely different:
In other words, it is not dishonest to call your situation "stealing customer data" because it implies theft of the real property that said data allows access to.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
There's a not well-known game called Two Worlds, which I actually liked better than Oblivion, truth be told. They have an online activation thing, like Vista, but it's a one-time deal, and they have promised to release a patch killing the activation if for whatever reason they stop support for the game.
Every company that uses Dumb Restrictions on Media should do this, and stick to it.
Valve's Gabe Newell has apparently indicated that's what would happen if Steam were to go belly up. I trust the man's intention, but I don't necessarily believe if the company were in that position that it would even be able to legally pull the trigger.
We've seen example's of DRM servers going away, but we've never seen an example of a company unlocking content of said servers. Can you trust a company to do this when it may be fighting for it's life? If it came down to a choice of shutting down servers to save money or going out of business, which do you think it would choose?
That being said, I don't think DRM is inherently evil or anything, as the methods presented here seem relatively unobtrusive (I do object to rootkits and other crap being installed on your system - I refuse to install that stuff). I just think you need to have a very clear understanding when purchasing that you're now paying for a service rather than a buying product.
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
I think you meant to quote Carrey's other performance:
Charlie: "Why does my ass hurt?"
Stardock isn't handing out loans amounting to hundreds of times more money than the assets of the whole company.
We're talking about software development companies, here - not unregulated banks.
I expect Sun, IBM, Microsoft, Blizzard, Stardock, and Valve to be around for a while yet.
I never really knew much about SGI or 3DFX - but maybe that's part of the problem? Any publicity is good publicity, as they say. If every time "server" is mentioned, someone says "Sun" or "Linux", you'll come out ahead in the end, because everyone thinks of you. ;)
There are so many things wrong with that post... You don't need to learn anything about the command line, you don't need to compile anything if you don't want to (90% of what you want is likely in your distro's repository. Various programmers might have their own compiled packages or repositories, bringing it up to 99% of whatever you'd want. only THEN, in 1% of cases, would you need to compile anything). Most distros have a GUI on the live CD now, and you can install from within a nice shiny GUI. Even listen to your music and get on MSN while it's installing, if you want. Before anyone comments on it, yes, I am feeding the troll, but this is for the benefit of those who can't tell the difference between the troll and the truth. Someone has to counter this bullshit.
Lastly, what kind of idiot are you? Dwarves don't have the technical aptitude to code an OS (they're all working for Microsoft). The ones programming for Linux are gnomes!
Admit it. You post strawman arguments as AC so you get modded Insightful for refuting them, rather than Troll
Get your own domain, already. It can never go out of business as long as you pay for it. Plenty of registrars in the sub-$15/year range. For less than $10/year more, you can even have your registration information hidden behind a proxy. Then you can point that domain at any number of free or pay webmail providers. I currently like Google Apps (gmail) for Domains, but if something happened all I'd need to do is change a few DNS records and I'm on to greener pastures.
I did this over a decade ago, and I wasn't anywhere near ahead of the curve at that time. Just about anyone posting to slashdot shouldn't have this problem if they didn't want to.
Moderators: Before moderating a comment Insightful/Informative, check to see if a child post has already refuted it.
Why would you be listening to music and going on to MSN on a webserver? Or did you not even read the post and the whoosh went straight over your head?
The astroturf is flying thick and fast tonight. Astroturfers are lying scum.
Any consumer who says they "like" DRM is flat out lying. It provides significant costs to the consumer with zero benefits. Steam is just one more piece of crippleware - the only "benefit" it provides is downloading, something any website can do.
>Stardock isn't handing out loans amounting to hundreds of times more money than the assets of the whole company
How do you know? You have copies of auditor reports? Please post them.
>We're talking about software development companies, here - not unregulated banks.
unregulated software development companies.
>I expect Sun, IBM, Microsoft, Blizzard, Stardock, and Valve to be around for a while yet
Sun won't exist a couple of months from now.
Yahoo still exists but its music customers are SOL so the company still existing is
meaningless on whether your DRM product still works.
http://arstechnica.com/old/content/2008/07/drm-still-sucks-yahoo-music-going-dark-taking-keys-with-it.ars
A huge number of comments are of the form "GOO is not acceptable because X", where the article clearly and specifically states GOO does not X.
Yeah, no one has been able to buy anything off steam or any of these companies. 99.995% of the people who play securrom games couldn't actually use it - NO ONE installs or is able to use these games. Its the truth!
That sounds pretty and is a popular sentiment on here, but it isn't true. DRM can not prevent piracy. But it can raise the bar enough that a casual computer user will go out and buy the game rather than pirate it.
Slashdot really has it wrong. Not that I don't understand why people hate DRM, but that this attitude of "la la la" and sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming that you will either pirate or not purchase anything with any form of DRM means that you aren't part of the conversation. It is obvious to me that the future for gaming is that it will have some form of DRM. What we should be doing is engaging in the conversation on how to keep DRM from interfering with our gaming experience, yet still protecting game companies rights to get paid for the work that they do.
I really think Steam is the future. The biggest issue is that if you are in the same house, you can't log on to one account from two different computers and play a game at the same time as your kid or wife plays another. I like the fact that it enhances the experience by letting know where and what games my friends are playing and can join in.
Some people are just never going to buy games with DRM. Some people are never going to buy games period. These people are irrelevant. Unfortunately, we are going to have DRM...I'd rather have a discussion on how to make it better for the user than to live in some unrealistic world where you think by not buying, DRM will go away. It won't. Too many people don't care about the issue or are perfectly fine with the Steam model for you to make a real dent in their revenue.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
You ignore the fact that many games that I own from the past will not play on my Windows XP machine now. Just owning the physical media doesn't mean it is going to work in the future.
I am totally aware that some game company might die off and the authentication servers will be down. I have faith that the company will release a patch that removes it and that if that fails, that I, or someone else, will be able to crack it. So I will still be able to play the game and I have no moral qualms about doing this since I bought the game. It is no different than playing those old games that don't work on my PC anymore in an emulator. I am not depriving the company of money for the work they did. I paid. And I have no doubt that I will have a way to play the game. It seems like people on Slashdot like to pretend the option doesn't exist. It may be morally gray to some, but who has ever gotten in trouble for doing this?
I guess I also honestly have no sympathy for people who don't have an internet connection (at least in the U.S.). If you are too poor to have one, then you probably can't afford modern games or a modern gaming PC either. Get a console like the Wii.
All the examples of how DRM is ruining the world are contrived and represent such at tiny percentage of people. If this is a big deal, just don't buy the games. It isn't going to matter, this is something that is going to happen. The best we can do is engage game companies in order to make DRM the least onerous to us. If you say that any DRM is too much DRM, that's fine, but you will be ignored.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
You have GOT to be kidding.
Look around. Have you TRIED to buy a PC game lately? We are standing in the middle of a charred wasteland. There is nothing to see but the bodies of the dead PC game development studios. There are thousands of PC games. Virtually all of them are unsupported. Almost all of the PC Game developers have left the industry. 4 years ago, there were lots of new games. Now there are a tiny handful.
Blizzard has several unsupported games. Microsoft has lots. Stardock's GalCiv for OS2 is unsupported. Stardock is winding down support for GalCiv 1. Stardock is phasing out support for Stardock Central (not a game, but it runs ok under Wine, while Impulse doesn't.)
All the evidence of the last 10 years says that any given game will be unsupported in a year or two.
Miles
So instead you ignore that Windows NT-based OSes are hit and miss with respect to game compatibility from 10-15 years ago?
How young must you be that the simple fact that lots of software stops working between OS revisions is a shock to you? Hell, my GameTap can't even handle the upgrade to Windows 7.
It's been a long time.
Because PC gamers wont stand for it. We have a choice between companies, no single entity can control PC gaming thus the industry is highly competitive (this is why EA and other big names hate it, it forces them to do work). GFWL (Games For Windows Live) needs to go away, I don't need to be online to play games and I don't want to be online to play games. Steam annoys me as well but at least it doesn't make games (Fallout 3 I'm looking at you) crash, GWFL is a poorly written program based on a poorly thought out idea.
Then you could just move it to a system with identical HW, without a unique DRM chip this would be difficult, if not impossible. Game DRM is currently based on the Windows GUID, I can copy my windows installation verbatim (Ghost/Acronis image) to identical HW and the game will still work but if I install a new version of Windows on the same hardware the game will break. Besides many gamers upgrade their PC's, this is one of the key advantages of PC's.
DRM and limited activations will not work. Attempting to apply console DRM logic to PC's will fail just as badly.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Stardock's primary business is Object Desktop and ilk; things which had some functionality and eye candy to Windows. These things will inevitably have less appeal as new versions of Windows are released which include similar functionality out of the box (or as people switch to other OSes which have more customization features).
Microsoft's primary business is a proprietary operating system which has been very successful largely as a result of questionable business practices which have turned a lot of people against them. The only direction their market share can go is down, and once other OSes reach a critical mass such that changing platform is no longer a daunting proposition for the majority of businesses they'll be in for a world of hurt.
Of the two, I think Microsoft is more likely to survive for a long time, but any business has a 100% chance of going under eventually. Either that or they'll be bought out, and the buying company might decide to change policies. For example, Valve promise that if they go under they'll release a patch to unlock all Steam games; but if they enter administration will they be granted the ability to unlock all their assets? While I believe Valve do fully intend to keep that promise if at all possible, the current management may not always be in a position to keep that promise.
Bankruptcy isn't the only reason for activation servers to go offline; remember PlaysForSure? All it takes is a corporate boss deciding the profits made from keeping their DRM servers alive is ought-weighed by the savings to be had from turning them off.
Then there's the possibility of technical problems making the services "temporarily" unavailable, or your licensing information getting lost and you having to try to prove to the company you really did buy the product and have a right to activate it, and so on.
It's funny how you dismiss the demise of SGI and 3DFX so easily. They were pretty big names back in the day; 3DFX essentially created the consumer-level 3D graphics acceleration. Here's some popular games that used the Glide API but there were plenty more. That list made me a little nostalgic. I wasn't into UNIX back then, but I do remember using SGI workstations at university in the late 90's.
Pretty sure copyright infringement (let's not make it sound all exotic now, there's no boats or cutlasses involved) is about not paying for copies of things that other people made. DRM is companies trying to stop that happening.
I must admit, though, that every time I have to watch that retarded "you wouldn't steal a car" anti-piracy clip (that you can't skip on a standard DVD player) I get one step closer to just saying "fuck you, I'm torrenting my movies from now on".
Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
I think Good Old Games (gog.com) is the future of gaming. 5-10$ DRM Free games. while they don't have the latest games, they have some great classics and the collection is growing every week. If they do well enough and build a big enough user base maybe they will be able to pull some of the bigger gaming houses. Lets hope.
I like games. I would buy a heap more games if they were cheap. I've bought too many for $50 and played them for only an hour or two. So fuck that.
Don't point that gun at him, he's an unpaid intern!
You ignore the fact that many games that I own from the past will not play on my Windows XP machine now. Just owning the physical media doesn't mean it is going to work in the future.
Anything Intel-based that's old enough not to run on XP should be old enough to run happily in DosBox or similar. I know what you mean, though, because I have a shelf full of 5.25" floppies that I can't read because I don't have the right cable to connect my old BBC Micro up to the TV, and to be perfectly honest I can't remember how to use the thing any more anyway. Which reminds me, must look up how to talk to the old drive so I can code something up and copy those discs across...
Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
I disagree. The entire point of Steam is not having to worry about physical media and keys, not having to download patches and hope it installs correctly or using another system to find servers. The point is all the tools you need are built and/or automatically done for you. Get a new computer, go to a friends house, need more HDD space, no problem. The games can be downloaded with the latest patches and installed for you in less then an hour or two (depending on connection and such) without having to worry about damaged media and lost keys. So, yeah, you're right. No benefit what so ever.
Stardock forces updates through the client as a DRM measure. That's why.
They have made updates available as a standalone download in the past though, generally ones which fix bugs in the games. But to get all the patches they require you to use their client.
To avoid having to download all the patches again on a reinstall they allow you to create a backup of the game from your currently installed version. You can restore from this archive later instead of reinstalling. I think it even packages up any extra content(mods/tweaks etc) you have as well. I'm not sure whether reinstalling from an archive requires an activation check though.
I wasn't asked to activate Galactic Civilizations 2 when I installed it. I just had to activate it to get the updates.
So you should be fine when you want to install without an internet connection.
It was a retail boxed copy though, I'm not sure whether the downloaded version would be the same.
Seriously, do you *not* believe that the threat of punishment is an effective deterrent for piracy in the first place?
If you knew that EA would send you to prison for a while or fine you thousands of dollars for placing a game on the pirate bay, would you still do it?
Punishment is a very effective deterrent, and anyone who doesn't believe that should question why we have laws in the first place. Having laws against murder doesn't deter murder--threat of punishment does.
Everyone always says "After company X goes bankrupt, it'll be worthless." - but really, what are the odds that Stardock/Valve/Microsoft/Blizzard/etc. will go under?
As others have pointed out already, pretty big. No company survives forever, and even big powerhouses (which Stardock is not) can eventually get in trouble.
But the real danger is not these companies going under, the real danger is them switching to even newer technology in the future, and stopping suport for this one. This has happened quite lot in the past (remember the Yahoo and MS music debacle?). And when they're not making money from an old technology anymore, they'll be losing money by supporting that technology, and losing money is bad for business.
These companies have been around for years - they clearly have some smart people leading them.
How long a company has existed doesn't mean a thing for how long it will continue to exist. But if it wants to continue to exist, those smart people will have to keep their eye on the bottom line: they need to make money. They will stop support for GOO or whatever other DRM scheme as soon as they stop making profit on it.
The only way I'd trust something like this is if patches that remove the DRM are already is escrow, to be released when the server goes down.
The GP is a copy/paste troll. Please ignore.
Seriously, these protections that are "not DRM" still manage my rights to things that are digital.
You don't get it. This isn't DRM, it's Digital Consumer Enablement.
* If you want to play with friends, eveyone needs a different activation key, so piracy is somewhat limited.
I always think of that as the dumbest thing to prevent. The best possible introduction for a game is in multiplayer with friends, I've seen it quite often that people play a game together on a LAN and then decide to get their own copy of it. If you add special measures to prevent that they have to either go with something else (that won't net you sales) or get a fully cracked version (which leaves them with little reason to buy it). Ideally you'd WANT them to be able to play the game with friends but not once they go home again so they get a taste and have to pay to get more.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Not true. Copyright "infringement" is also about extending rights into perpetuity, crushing fair use, limiting parody and free speech, and taking away the rights of the consumer to do what they want with the stuff they own.
You are welcome on my lawn.
This is also corporate America's view of all consumers. We're only the consumables.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Piracy is ship to ship armed robbery.
Every time WE use THEIR word for copyright infringement/their refusal to join the late 20th century, we give it legitimacy.
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
The fact that you initially have to activate the game online at all is restrictive.
The thing is, with Stardock games, you don't. You can install and play without it - heck you can install and play without even entering a key in some cases. It only needs the internet for updates.
I don't know why Stardock is muddying it's reputation by mentioning anything like this. One of the main reasons people like them is that they don't have DRM on their current games. You can copy the disc, install it anywhere, etc.
Impulse is just a steam-like deal that they give you in addition - so you can download the game if you lose the disc (provided you registered) and update it.
Why, yes I have been touched by His noodly appendage. And I plan to sue.
I'm ignoring the troll itself, just looking out for the people who don't.
Admit it. You post strawman arguments as AC so you get modded Insightful for refuting them, rather than Troll
You just assume Steam will be working for you forever. Well, it won't - companies are born and they die, it's a natural cycle.
We will still have our media and keys, and maybe emulators to run old software on the new photonic terahertz personal AIs, but you will have nothing but a login that no longer works.
Because "goes" would have been enough.