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Tesla Roadster Runs For 241 Miles In E-Rally
N!NJA writes with the mention of a recent alternative energies rally where the Tesla Roadster managed to cover 241 miles on a single charge, with another 38 miles of juice still left in the battery. "That would give the Roadster a theoretical maximum touring range of nearly 280 miles — 36 miles more than Tesla itself reckons the car will cover on a charge. If the numbers stand up to official scrutiny, Tesla will hold the world record for the longest distance traveled by a production electric car on a single charge. Of course, it should be pointed out that the Tesla was driven by a company staffer doubtless practiced in eking out every last mile from a charge, and that the speeds averaged on the run were hardly blistering — 90kph (56mph) on the motorways, 60kph (37mph) on trunk roads and 30kph (19) in the mountain roads. Tesla reckon the average speed for the entire journey was 45kph (28mph)."
Now make it affordable.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Does anyone know how likely the batteries are to catch fire or explode? Imagine a gigantic cell phone or laptop battery blowing up. Yikes!
Well, that is after you have driven it about 400,000 miles.
I drove 280 miles today (central NY to upstate) and it took me 3.5 hours, meaning I traveled an average speed of 80mph for the journey. Even at an average of 65mph (the proper speed limit) the journey would take 4.3 hours.
4 hours is a far cry from 10 hours traveling.
While gas (and money) is a commodity that I would save by traveling with an automobile than ran on an alternative fuel source, there is a negative cost, an exchange of time. I save money, but I lose time. If you calculate how much I get paid an hour and convert the lost hours to dollars, it's more cost efficient for me to take a gas powered car over 4 hours than an electric car for 10 hours.
Even then, if I didn't want to drive, I could take a train ticket for the same price as a full tank of gas at current prices, and get home in 4 or 5 hours at most anyways.
Even if the electric (or alternative fuel source) cars are cheaper to run and operate, time must also be factored in as a commodity, and weighed accordingly. But if these cars continue to run at considerably slower speeds than gas fueled cars I don't see many people shifting to them.
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You can give just about *any* car dramatic improvements in fuel economy if you know how to drive them correctly. See HyperMilingA.
Just to see if it worked, I tried it with an ageing GMC Van (big, full sized, full of people) and measured an increase in fuel economy from about 20 MPG to over 30! Of course, there's something about driving on a freeway at 45 MPH and coasting to a stop from a half mile away that annoys the bajeezus out of other drivers.... I must have been flipped off half a dozen times!
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
because as with any gas mileage ratings they measure them under ideal conditions which are hardly reflective of reality. I've yet to get any closer than 3mpg away from my car's highway MPG rating of 27MPG. I've used the majority of my tank traveling at 50-60 MPH which is the sweet spot for my car's gearing and also with minimal wind resistance compared to 70 or 80MPH. And with that type of driving I still could not get any closer than 24 MPG. I'm sure some people can get their car to meet the manufacturer's MPG ratings but many probably don't because they don't drive under the same conditions that the car was measured under. So with the Tesla Roadster traveling with an average speed of 28MPH and a maximum speed of less than 70, it is not surprising that a good fuel efficiency was the result. Drive with a more realistic speed and then get back to us so we have better numbers to compare with good ole ICE-based cars.
this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
I'm glad that you have 50K for what I can get out of GM's old uneducated workforce for about 18K.
For some of us that's kind of a big selling point.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
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Please see: EV1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1 It's not that they're "unable" but rather they're unwilling.
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Oh, sorry, make that 100K if you want it today.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
Tesla reckon the average speed for the entire journey was 45kph (28mph)
Assuming they tracked how long they drove, there's no need to reckon!
I'd also be concerned about the toxicity of these batteries. Are they 100% recyclable? Will they be safely disposed of, even if Tesla goes out of business? Will they leak?
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
Amen, brother.
The Big Three undoubtedly saw the potential of Tesla and smaller companies (who buy a chassis, fit it with their gear, and profit), shit themselves, and immediately made it a necessity that Diesel fuel double in price, Saturn (who would be the GM arm to make it happen) forget what they are about and sell rebadged Opels, and thrusting on the public a prolonged (boring?) four-year introduction of the new Camaro.
What. The. Hell, indeed..
Something is seriously fucking fishy, if you ask me.
There are mandated requirements for safety that eliminate the ability for anyone (but them) to feasibly introduce a new American automobile, unless it has three wheels, in which case it's not an Auto at all, but a Motorcycle.
Q: Why did the minimum hood (bonnet) height of a typical sedan go from the super-aerodynamic, low drag Cd noses of the 90's to something akin to 1980's pickup trucks?
A: "Pededstrian safety".
I am aware that I used the word "penetration." It's OK, I'm used to /. I know what's coming.
...and I can't get my Roomba to clean my living room without running out charge!
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/04/10/teslas-elon-musk-grows-a-pair-good-for-him/
Awesome.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Until we see cold fusion reactors there is not going to be a realistic electric car. When you look at the amount of energy stored in a gallon of gasoline compared to a ton of batteries you'll see why. Don't you think if there was money to be made in this market someone would have tried when gas was over 4 bucks a gallon? We simply don't have the technology now or any time in the near future. Short of some unknown breakthrough we'll still be driving fossil fuel powered vehicles 20 years from now.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
How come every time there's a review of an electric or a hybrid, they never mention how much the electricity costs per mile?
Troll indeed!
At least Tesla is trying to do something. 3 problems to overcome:
1. Americas love of gas-based vehicles
2. Batteries have to last the way gas-based vehicles do now. 10-20 years at least.
3. Energy infrastructure to support recharging these vehicles. If we can't keep houses lit without rolling brownouts, how do we also charge cars?
Tackle them on a 3,2,1 basis.
Your implication was that they were "unable to come up with electric cars faster than" Tesla. I'm not arguing the reasons behind jettisoning the EV1 project, but rather the fact that it *can be done* by any company willing to put their minds to it. GM proved it while using inferior battery technology than is available today in a comparable time frame. It's a damn shame they gave up on it, and I sure hope Tesla doesn't run out of money due to lack of purchases and/or one-too-many lawsuits.
That would give the Roadster a theoretical maximum touring range of nearly 280 miles
Somehow I don't think the author understands the meaning of the word used. Surely, the range with a long downhill road or strong (as in Katrina) tailwind would be quite a bit more.
because using in an optimal setting or nearly optimal is good for press releases.
Basically a rich mans toy. Without a viable range extender it just is a fancy golf cart. Not to diminish what they did but really, a battery powered lotus. People have been converting cars to pure electric for a long time but none are up to the level of this. It does prove the Lithium batteries can do the job. The big question is lifetime in this type of application. The range extender versions will have better safeguards for keeping the batteries good because unlike just a electric only solution the RE versions will keep the batteries from getting very too low and come with a system to charge them optimally at all times.
So, yeah it was neat to know that that many batteries does go well.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
You'd think for GM/Chry/Ford they'd be able to find a chassis that isn't based on a $50,000 auto, and then take it and have it custom made in small runs from carbon fiber composites. They might - just might - have the capacity to leverage some efficiency in purchasing motors and batteries, and incorporating (otherwise expensive) IP from their portfolio to provide a bit better price than $100k.
The Aptera is one of the goofiest looking cars in the world, and yet it's got a waiting list out the door at $30k. You mean to tell me that GM/Chrys can figure out how to sell a $40-50,000 SUV that gets 12MPG in the city to a soccer mom, but they can't take a 4 door sedan that retails for $18k, strip out the entire engine and drivetrain, and put in a competent electric power plant for under $40k?
Sure, that rules out a moderate segment of the public, but up until the economy went to absolute shit, GM only sold a total of 27,000 Hummers in 2008. And that was all three body styles. Surely that's a niche market - and it did quite well until gas prices went sky high. They can't justify putting a useful $40,000-$60,000 car on the road for a few tens of thousands who (a) have the money and (b) want an alternative?
Speaking of hummers...do you know the difference between a tire and 300 blow jobs?
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One is a Goodyear, the other is a GREAT year!
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Everything you need to know about why automakers don't want us to have Full-EVs
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
My Honda Civic refuels in about a minute and a half, and I can get well over 400 miles on a tank on the highway. Just sayin'.
Basically a rich mans toy.
Interesting. That's what computers were when they came out for public consumption too.
And if the steadily increasing estimated price of the "Volt" continues, it will also "Basically be a rich mans toy".
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
Where will people who live in apartments plug in their car? At power-equipped gas stations, you say? And, what, pray, will they do while the car takes hours to get charged up?
Unless the charging time can be brought down to 5-10 minutes, this is the wrong horse to bet on.
Plug-ins are not the wave of the future. Hydrogen is.
What does warm weather have to do with it. Unless my physics knowledge is taking a vacation, cold weather will actually improve performance because there will be less resistance in the line (I'm not even going to try to figure out if this is anything beyond negligible). And I'm pretty sure batteries work better in colder temperatures (I'm less certain on this one).
"Educate the mind but never at the expense of the soul."~Blessed Basil Moreau
What does warm weather have to do with it.
I interpreted that to mean that the battery has to heat the interior of the car, or you freeze in a cold climate. Similarly in the tropics most cars run an aircon much of the time. Both of these things cost energy. Electric motors have waste heat which could be used to heat the cabin. Aircons will just cost energy I suppose.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Ask any Canadian if cold can kill batteries.
Hint: it does.
It's ahrd to evolve when your custmers are practically banging on your doors trying to throw money at you for a big gas guzzler.
The reason why they are hurting now has little to do with that, and more to do people not able to get loans.
All the American car manufactures make small efficient cars they sell over seas.
Demand didn't stop until gas shot up, followed by no on able to get loans. Now there is a strong enough demand for economy cars in the US, but no body is buying any cars.
What they hell a poly. sci.(snort) major is doing on /. I'll never know.
French Canadian, figures.
OTOH, your strong Canadian automobile companies can show us the way to making better cars.... oh wait.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Lithium-oon polymer will take over soon enough. Compared to the good old Lithium-ion (not polymer), it packs more energy per weight and volume, does not enforce specific cell proximity and shape (semi-fluid?) and has lower risk of exploding. The price is already about the same.
Things are always improving :-)
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BWAHAhahahhaa... nice one.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Laughable.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Well the Japanese and European car makers have good, profitable markets for their small cars. GM and Ford have narrower markets and are more exposed to changes in market conditions.
http://michaelsmith.id.au
Oil is so nineties...
Hmmmm.... A vehicle that had it's R&D paid for several times over by Uncle Sam versus putting out a whole new model for the same price that has a totally different target buyer that, so far, hasn't produced zilch in the real world....
Is this an honest question or is this a cheap ploy to tell a poor blow job joke? Actually, any sophomore business student will even tell you that your joke was the better half of your post.
And I'd REALLY love to see you cite some numbers about the Aptera. I'm not saying they don't exist but I'd still love to see them.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
When you build tens of thousands of cars you have to sell what the market wants and clearly in the US that is large cars or SUVs. When you are a boutique manufacturer like tesla producing tens or hundreds of cars of year you sell to your niche which in this case is the upper income eco-fashionable. There is no point in mass producing cars that no one wants, can't afford, or cannot meet the needs of a broad section of the market.
At current production rates Telsa will product about 750 cars this year versus GM with over 150,000 cars delivered in March alone.
People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them
It's already affordable to people who are in the market for cars that go 0-60 in 3.7 seconds. They can afford it so well that Tesla is back-ordered. That's proof of a market that you can take to the bank (literally).
Once those people pay the early adopter tax, they fund the transition to higher-volume, lower-price cars like the Model S.
The Tesla is a brilliant piece of product positioning.
Does this mean that the battery will loose 50% charge capacity after 1 year of use? I have used many laptop batteries, and they all were like that. That battery replacement will not be neither cheap nor trivial I would assume?
They are using the high end market to drive the technology until it's cheap enough to work for everyday cars. This is a much better approach than the EV1 that started cheap.
I agree Tesla is taking a better approach than GM did with the EV1. However GM didn't sell the EV1, it was available only for lease and only in California, Arizona, and Georgia for employees of GM.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Average Tour de France winners speeds average around 25mph.
Which I can turn around and get better out of Honda for 14k...
The specs for the Fit verse anything GM makes under 25k is scary.
can't sleep slashdot will eat me
When driving the Tesla Roadster like a sports car you'll get much lower mileage. Jeremy Clarkson only got 55 miles around the Top Gear track, as you can see in this poor quality clip.
The remaining problem with viable full electric vehicles is energy storage. You need to solve the problems of capacity, charge time, and duty in all weather conditions. Perhaps a high density ultra-capacitor can solve these problems but no one has demonstrated a production unit yet. Maybe 2009 will be EEStor's year but who knows. It's also possible that hydrogen fueled vehicles will become the more practical option, despite the high cost of developing the refining and distribution infrastructure to support them.
And Tesla is near-unique in using laptop cells rather than the "automotive" li-ions which use different chemistries and don't have the fire risk.
Laptop batteries do catch on fire.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Why not just make the battery pack a swappable component? Drive into the "recharge station" and swap battery packs? If they are standardized, that could be easily viable.
Get a couple hundred (or thousand) charge cycles on those batteries (ie. use them for 2 or 3 months) then tell me how many miles you can go on a charge.
I bet they were using practically brand new cells that are going to rapidly lose performance when actually using them every day.
My Corolla has a 10-gallon tank, so at typical 28mpg I only get 250 safe miles out of a tank.
Perhaps there's something wrong with your Corolla, it needs a tuneup, or you mostly do slow, stop and go city driving. Someone once told me gas tanks are made to travel 300 miles on a full tank. I have a 2000 Saturn and 300 miles is the shortest I've gotten out of a full tank. And yes I keep the records.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
When you build tens of thousands of cars you have to sell what the market wants and clearly in the US that is large cars or SUVs.
The thing is is Detroit, that is Chrysler, Ford, and GM, have a record of NOT making what the market wants. This was amply demonstrated in the '70s. For years after the oil crisis people were demanding fuel efficient autos but the big 3 wouldn't offer them. So the Japanese auto makers ate their lunch by making more efficient cars. That was when Japanese cars had to be imported and weren't made in the US. Eventually Detroit started importing Japanese cars but rebranded them. I once bought a Chevy branded truck but when I opened it up to work on the engine it was a Japanese company that made it.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Well the Japanese and European car makers have good, profitable markets for their small cars. GM and Ford have narrower markets and are more exposed to changes in market conditions.
I don't know about GM but Ford makes more fuel efficient vehicles in Europe. Here's a "Business Week" article about "The 65 mpg Ford the U.S. Can't Have". TFA says it's not available in the US because it runs on diesel and that the fuel has a bad rep. As biodiesel is getting more popular in the US I say this is BS as an excuse.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
The big three all make economy cars, but they sell them overseas.
Ford makes and sells a 68 mpg diesel in Europe.
Normally they would do some financing deal to the customers that would help them changed there momentum to move with the market(this is a 5 year process) but the bottom fell out of the economy and no one was backing big loans.
Saying they're a bank, GMAC, GM tried to get some of that bank bailout money.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
What people fail to understand is that just like the Koreans in the 90s the Japanese where only selling small cars in the US in the 70s. The Japanese had a competitive advantage because unlike the Big 3 they would not have to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to re-tool their manufacturing. The US auto makers could never have re-tooled their plants to provide the small cars needed during the timeframe of the oil crisis. When the oil crisis ended people wanted larger cars again and the Big 3 provided them while the Japanese was re-tooling.
Also, during this time the Big 3 where getting hammered but foreign competitors on quality. This is where the Big 3 really dropped the ball in the 70's. Their cost cutting due to limited sales in the 70s affected quality.
People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them
Fast, flashy, exotic. But not for the masses. Yet. And the masses are where the real difference comes in.
It's research like this that will bring EVs to the masses. Tesla already is planning a lower price car, the Model S. At $49,900, after a $7,500 federal tax credit, it's high priced but there may be another in the wings.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
colder temperatures (I'm less certain on this one).
Actually batteries do worse in colder weather. See "Why Do Batteries Discharge More Quickly in Cold Weather?" When I go out to shoot photos during the winter I keep spare batteries in a pocket next to me to keep warm because the batteries in the camera die faster than in warm weather.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
The US power grid is already stretched pretty thin and widespread adoption of plugin vehicles would necessitate major infrastructure upgrades.
Obama included money in the stimulus package to upgrade the power grid and is "Pressing for a Power Grid Overhaul".
The average home or even parking lot is certainly not going to be wired to refill a vehicle in 30-minutes.
The average home or parking lot does not need to recharge batteries in 30 minutes. Batteries can be charged while working and sleeping for instance. The problem would come with long haul trucking, however trains are more fuel efficient. Semis could then use hybrid drive systems, a small petro engine recharges batteries which powers an electric engine, until hydrogen can be used.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
independence
Agreed!!!
with the next goal as cleaner fuels and energy production methods.
We have those now, though more research needs to be done to increase efficiency and storage.
Presently, plug-in vehicles just mean the burning coal or oil elsewhere.
It may be that way now but if the electricity is produced by renewable resources it doesn't have to remain that way. I'm not sure if it was in "Homepower" or "Solar Today" but someone had written how they recharge their EV with energy generated by a solar or hybrid system.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
It took this long because it was going *through narrow mountain roads in the Alps*. Are you going to drive 80mph on roads like this?
Ah, they remind me of one of my favorite movies, "To Catch a Thief", there's a scene where Grace Kelly (soon to become Princess Grace) is racing in the mountains of southern France.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
You know, some of us actually need horsepower and large SUV's.
Just because you don't and you're scared my bumper has more real metal than your entire vehicle just doesn't justify the environazis crusade against SUV's.
Yes, a large segment of population buys them for status symbols. Yes, they are idiots. Most could go buy an old musclecar and some wax for half the price of their SUV's if they want to make a statement.
The fact is that SUV's have a lot of real-world uses, even for families. They are large, relatively safe, powerful enough to tow fairly heavy loads and the more recent ones are fairly fuel-efficient. I replaced my old pickup with an SUV and was able to eliminate a minivan as well with the same sized engine and reduce my "carbon footprint". The old Chevy S10 Blazer can haul a trailer, my wife, 2 kids, AND some equipment in the back all while getting 20-25mpg. And that's with a relatively large 4.3L V6.
Do you know of an electric mid-sized SUV that has similar torque/horsepower specs, carrying capacity and range of my old 1994 Chevy Blazer?
Really, you don't? Then STFU.
Electric vehicles are either powerful with very limited range, or slugs barely fit to carry 2 people 250 miles. Electric motors are NOT a replacement for large gas engines in practical vehicles at this point.
Electric commuter cars would be great and I welcome them with open arms but some of us need to move a little more than a bag of groceries.
If I could get a cheap $5,000 electric car just to go back and forth to work I would. I'm seriously considering a Tata Nano. I'll still have my big vehicle and enjoy it thoroughly however and there's nothing you or any lefties can do about it except conspire to raise gas prices.
Some of us travel over 200 miles every Saturday with the whole family. Some of us live in a country bigger than the UK or Germany and have family spread over hundreds or thousands of miles we actually keep in touch with and visit regularly. Some of us travel and do more than go to work and come home.
I'm not going to give that up just so some brat great-great-grandkid of yours can breath in 1 less nanogram of CO2. Wah. Get a life.
I'm more for Biodiesel than electric vehicles at this point unless some major battery or engine breakthrough happens. I whole-heartedly believe Biodiesel is the way to go. Running on cooking waste and degraded biomass definitely beats the toxins batteries release into landfills over generations.
what is so groundbreaking about a 750 mile range if your car has a 100 gallon tank in the back seat?
The 1.9L 2006 VW Golf TDI has a 12.5 gal tank. Here are the numbers. Please notice the EPA ratings barely break 40MPG for the 2006 (newest) and about the same with older models.
While I'm sure the mileage is great, I'm skeptical of the claim that fnj can 'go over 600 miles without coming close to empty' though. With a 'best fillup' of 781 miles, one would be breaking 60MPG. That's barely achievable even with VW's diesel hybrid. fnj must do a lot of modestly paced highway hypermiling down a 700 mile slope or something... heh. Just a quick search around shows anecdotal evidence that people typically get about 45 highway with their Gold TDIs... that's probably more like it.
But yeah, diesel engines are just more efficient than their gasoline counterparts.
How about a small car; If Telsa could make a car the size of the smart cars out there and get 300km off a single charge - I would be a very happy man. The most I travel is around 30km to work so its almost a whole weeks worth of electricity - and if I wanted to be a cheap bastard, I could top it up at work for free lol :P
It's ahrd to evolve when your custmers are practically banging on your doors trying to throw money at you for a big gas guzzler.
And why is that? Do they really want/need one, or did the big US auto manufacturers, spend SUBSTANTIALLY more on marketing than on R&D in the last decade? The statement that "people want an SUV" is not clear at all, and what they want is very difficult to differentiate from what they're told they want.
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
GM makes SUV's because that is what makes them the most money. Want to know why? It's what Americans buy.
Do you really think if we all wanted to buy small gas or electric vehicles they wouldn't jump right in and make what we want?
Change what people want to buy and GM will change what they make.
On the money. I see there being a huge ability to recycle or rebuild, recertify the vehicles. New exterior painted panels that are easily replaced, new interiors, motors rebuilt.
They have always needed something sexier to sell *more of* and *more expensive*, so they have created artificial complexity, from their proprietary radio mountings and wiring, engines, to funky fasteners and rustable welded panels.
That time needs to end; there is already a market and dollars for custom.
"the speeds averaged on the run were hardly blistering â" 90kph (56mph) on the motorways, 60kph (37mph) on trunk roads and 30kph (19) in the mountain roads."
Yes, men may actually see a car as simply a means to get from point-A to point-B, and not as compensation or an indicator of penis size... LOL.