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The FBI Has a Trojan To Watch You
G_of_the_J writes "A man who had cut 18 cables affecting Verizon and Comcast was blackmailing them. He had demanded bank accounts be set up and information be provided on web sites that he specified. Although he used anonymous access to get to the web sites, the FBI had planted a trojan which was downloaded to his computer. The trojan then sent his IP address and other information to the FBI."
Is this Magic Lantern, or something new?
he deserved to be caught, and although this seems to be a dig at the FBI ... good for them ... people like this should be locked up, no parole.
Anon
This is sooo last week.....
Crap. Too bad that website was the top rank on a google search for comcast verizon cut cable blackmail.
I suppose posting anonymously won't help now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_and_Internet_Protocol_Address_Verifier
The Governator didn't get him 1st
as I wrote in my journal.
The "long arm" of the FBI ? How long ?
Can I put a spell on those who can't spell?
Your wheels are loose and they're losing their grip, good you're there.
... if he was stupid enough to visit the "private" website they created for him with such a lax security setup that his computer willingly installed the FBI's trojan.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
There is one important aspect missing from the summary. The FBI got a warrant first. It's not an extension of illegal wiretapping.
He can spoof ips yet he can't install software to detect unwanted outbound traffic?
Idiot.
All he had to do was be more careful, and possibly boot from CD.
I don't know... Seems to me like another reason not to cut 18 cables and not know how to hide your identity.
About the party responsible for infiltrating government and military computers.
In case you've been living in Richard B. Cheney's spider-hole, this F.B.I. system is called Ghostnet.
Yours Seditiously,
Kilgore Trout
From the 17th
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/17/0534232
but i forgot computerworld are desperate for revenue as their site is worthless, only 11 adverts (not including content as advertising) per page !
Who would have doubted anyway that the FBI has and uses this technology. For educational purposes, I'd like to see the source code or some nice reverse engineering study of this trojan--that would be more interesting news!
Ya its called windows XP
*unless you tried to blackmail someone over the internet and they call in the FBI, who then - with the authority of a warrant - use a Trojan to find out where you are. Seriously, how stupid is this guy?
... reason to not use Microsoft products.
What makes you think they don't have a variant for Linux? User stupidity (i.e: bad/no security) isn't unique to Windows. Off the top of my head, if they are relying on the web as an infection vector combined with user stupidity, why not write it into a Firefox extension?
Yeah, it wouldn't get your typical /. geek, but most criminals aren't known for their foresight or intelligence. "Oh, the private website with the bank account information needs me to install this software! Ok, what could possibly go wrong?"
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
"This website requires additional ActiveX components to be installed."
Hmm...
*click*
...
Oops.
I am the lawn!
So we can assume that the right to keep and bear arms can include the use of trojans for personal reasons. ,blood and latino gang computers,cell phones etc.
Perhaps the Fed would like to tax and license the use of trojans. Only after an approved trojan safety course has been passed, of course.
Other permits would be required to use a trojan outside of ones home and some public venues could ban the use of trojans in their facilities.
Soon the local police will be trained and equipped to battle trojan gang activity and will require informants to plant trojans in crip
Of course all this will only end in banner ads funded under the table by the corporations whose ads are forced on the innocent citizens and bystanders.
Thanks a lot O'bama
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
First read Slashdot and understand all the technical details needed to hide your identity. Then go ahead cut the cable and demand ransom.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
If this guy had had half a brain, he would have wiped the computer's hard drive clean by overwriting it with zeroes, and then done everything by using a Linux distribution on a bootable CD that could run entirely in RAM. Instead, he ran Windows and got nailed by a Trojan. Somewhere in the afterlife, J. Edgar Hoover is laughing his panty-clad ass off.
I write sci-fi for metalheads
Always use noscript when doing nefarious shit....
TFA says the FBI had a warrant. When that is the case, I *want* them to be able to own a suspect's machine.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
Hopefully the FBI will provide him with a different kind of Trojan after he winds up in jail sharing a cell with "Bubba".
Dude was a bad guy. FBI's job is to catch bad guys. FBI uses technology to catch bad guy. I'm not feeling the outrage here...
In a related story, local law enforcement shot a criminal who tried to hold up a 7-11 when he resisted arrest and brandished a knife. Reports say police used their "gun" technology to do this.
Point being, we know the FBI has the tech to do this stuff. It's only really a rights issue when they use it against non-criminals, or suspected criminals.
What incredible insight.
Greta: He knocked over another ATM. This time at knife point. He needs your legal advice.
Fletcher: [picking up phone and shouting] Stop breaking the law, asshole!
Whale
If you get a call from someone who refuses to identify themselves asking you if you'd be willing to edit a couple hidden configuration files and restart your system, then you have the Linux version.
No doubt I'm hundred of times less savvy about computers than many people here, but couldn't he have just done this from an internet cafe or a public library or a wireless spot in a hotel lobby or $tarbucks and avoided all these problems? To me it seems like a kidnapper who demands the ransom be delivered to his actual home address.
Jealously hoarding mod points since 2007.
Something is seriously wrong when you have to explicitly state, "The FBI did not commit any crimes in this story." When I read the summary, I felt that the warrant was implied, but with everything that has happened, I also feel that you are completely justified to think that that info was missing.
Someone once said "I never meta dupe I didn't like."
That someone was not me.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
The FBI went into his house and on his computer to download a trojan... hopefully that state of the art uploaded variety will be out in 2010...
I think it's an interesting story, but sure ... if a warrant was obtained first, the FBI actually did this the RIGHT way, and that makes me happy.
That's how law enforcement is supposed to work. Sometimes it seems like we completely forget that, these days, with all the stories of "the law" just doing whatever they please, secretly.
In Soviet Russia, KGB trojan watches YOU.
Oh wait, wrong country.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Actually, the FBI can't tell the difference between a criminal and a suspected criminal. In the U.S., it takes a jury (or a guilty plea) to do that.
I think your point though is that it's not a violation of someone's rights if the FBI has reasonable evidence *before* they install the Trojan, and it appears they did in this case (because they had a warrant).
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
What dickheads!
Nice ideas. Here is all I had: Demand that the info be in ASCII text, and download it with wget.
"What makes you think they don't have a variant for Linux? User stupidity (i.e: bad/no security) isn't unique to Windows."
This is an excellent statement. Stupidity knows no bounds. Its also dangerous to assume that the FBI doesn't know what it is doing. When I worked in law enforcement, the FBI computer crimes agents I knew were well versed in operating systems other than Windows. The two I worked with most often had a solid knowledge of Linux and Cisco IOS.
"About the party responsible for infiltrating government and military computers. In case you've been living in Richard B. Cheney's spider-hole, this F.B.I. system is called Ghostnet"
I guess the FBI will have to start investigating itself then :)
That's MY IP address too! Is the FBI hacking my computer as well?
Remember kids, only criminals use proxies. And only criminals use "an alternate operating system, with a black screen and white characters".
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
or they are too clever to be recognised as such
And BTW anybody surprised? Bundestrojaner of Germany, maybe there is some cooperation?
They could do it without a trojan, if they had the right signing key. I forget which worm it was, but a few years back there was a major vulnerability that Microsoft patched, which triggered the automatic reboot. The issue was the patch went ahead and updated the machine even if you had the system set to "download, but notify" rather than automagically patch. Similar deal here where an update did something it should not have.
Were I the FBI, I'd make Microsoft 'digitally sign' such a beasty, and then send it via an unannounced update.
Always helps to have stupid criminals, however.
+++ UGUCAUCGUAUUUCU
Yes because no root kit has ever existed in the history of linux. Nope not a single one. LALALALALALALALALA CANT HEAR YOU.
Thanks for playing!
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
Just goes to show that you shouldn't try your hand at being a career criminal, armed with nothing more than a MSP credential.
davecb5620@gmail.com
This case resulted in a sentence of 5-years probation, restitution, and mental health counseling.
An article displaying competence of the authorities. Good for them.
Slightly related:
The last time I tried to use TOR, there were a realtively small number of servers - I don't remember exactly, but in the range of 20-60.
What would prevent that intelligence services are behind 90% of these? I would imagine TOR servers are a costly pain to run, given the massive number of users and even idiots trying to download DVDs through TOR. The cost however would probably not be more than the annual salary of an intelligence official.
So why not? Can TOR be trusted given how easy it is to coopt?
I don't know... Seems to me like another reason not to cut 18 cables and not know how to hide your identity.
should've known how to 'cut' modern browsers out of his master plan. ...Lynx
"What makes you think they don't have a variant for Linux? User stupidity (i.e: bad/no security) isn't unique to Windows."
This is an excellent statement. Stupidity knows no bounds. Its also dangerous to assume that the FBI doesn't know what it is doing. When I worked in law enforcement, the FBI computer crimes agents I knew were well versed in operating systems other than Windows. The two I worked with most often had a solid knowledge of Linux and Cisco IOS.
Yup. Back in the day NSA/CSE/GCHQ could hack into anything, intercept anything from faxes to corporate email and ran a kickass datacenter of supercomputers running every crypto attack under the sun...
theyve been secretly evesdropping on me through satellites that communicate with a receiver in my fillings since 1996....and theyre also using fluoridated water to ensure i comply with the patriot act.
Good people go to bed earlier.
In America, the force exploits the Trojans. Um, any ideas about Soviet Russia?
and it has to make deedle deedle deedle noises. While launching a Matrix screensaver.
Although I did see a '24' episode where the computer whiz had nothing up on his desktop other than about two dozen xterm windows. Someone did their homework.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
Yea, I don't get it. If I were to do something like this, I'd want to use a disposable computer (one that was never used before and never used again) on an open network, far from my home.
"which was downloaded to his computer"
it was uploaded to his computer
OR
it was downloaded by his computer
Pick one or the other.
"Hey, can you borrow me some money."
This is a technology site. In case you haven't noticed, technology used by law enforcement (and the military) is of interest to a lot of the readers here. If this were a gun site, then stories about the use of a new kind of gun in the apprehension of a criminal would be similarly relevant.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
The brag about it on the one place where people will think you are just making it up.
Yeah, it's sad that law enforcement actually doing their job the RIGHT way is news.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Federal Bureau of Investigation actually conducts investigation using technology appropriate to the crime. News at 11!
Seriously, is anyone actually surprised that the FBI would actually adapt to the 21st century and develop new means of gathering evidence? A circa 1960's bug under the desk isn't going to be very useful when all you hear is typing. Provided the bureau used this lawfully (with a warrant, etc), this is not really news...
I don't like sigs... I don't use it...
I wonder if they have multiple types of Trojans that could affect any type of OS. For example Max OSX, the government could get some code from Apple and infect you in a certain way, you wont even know. Overall its stupid for someone to use the OS they run everyday for "hacking"...
From the article:
"The documents, which are heavily redacted, do not detail the CIPAV's capabilities, but an FBI affidavit in the 2007 case indicate it gathers and reports a computer's IP address; MAC address; open ports; a list of running programs; the operating system type, version and serial number; preferred internet browser and version; the computer's registered owner and registered company name; the current logged-in user name and the last-visited URL."
The OS type suggests there could be non-windows versions
Is it just me, or does it seem rather contrived that the FBI would (successfully) use a trojan to catch a criminal who is at least someone technically proficient ? Presumably the con would be surfing through a proxy at the very least, and is probably not the kind of user who runs unsolicited downloads from public web sites.
Call me crazy, but I'd say this smells like a piece of theatre. Now I'm not saying the FBI hired the con, but sometimes I wonder... In an increasingly complex tech world, maybe they feel the need to put on a show, to make people believe the FBI still has things under control.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
The article indicates that warrants were requested and issued each time they used this. It would be rather useless for the trojan to inject other malware onto a system that the FBI was likely to seize said equipment shortly after the trojan was planted.
This doesn't concern me in the slightest as long as they continue to follow the law and request a warrant to plant this trojan. If your a law abiding citizen, then you should never show up on their radar and I see this as no different than a blackmail case where they bugged someone's phone with a warrant or put them under 24/7 observation. I would imagine they injected the trojan via the web site that the guy demanded Verizon set up for him via some known (or unknown) exploit.
The two known instances of the FBI using this were both done via warrant (this one in 2005 and the latest in 2007).
That's not to say they don't use this elsewhere, but any person on the internet should consider their activities traceable no matter what hoops they go through. Especially when the telecoms willingly rolled over when requested by the government and most folks get their internet access via said telcoms.
I have mixed feelings about Comodo:
.dll is getting linked for anything it doesn't know. It's miles ahead of Zonealarm, and it's free.
http://personalfirewall.comodo.com/
On one hand, in Proactive security mode, it will tell you anytime a process it doesn't know does anything. Accessess a registry key, tries to open a socket, tries to piggyback outbound placing a HTTP connection via the IE object, what
On the other hand, if CIPAV has an exception deep in the executable, then it's pointless.
I wish Comodo was distributed open source and you could compile it yourself using Visual Studio.
I am not a bad guy but its interesting to think about other ways to get the info from Verizon.
I recall some old movies where a message was planed in the classified section of a newspaper. It would be pretty hard for the FBI to trace that.
If you want to do the same thing online, tell the blackmailee to post some info in the corner of their very busy homepage.
Why not setup that offshore bank account yourself, tell the backmailee the account number and have them deposit the money.
Warning... Tinfoil hat alert...
The front page of Slashdot was an interesting read for me today... We see here the top story is about "Magic Lantern," and just two stories down one about the potential of "Adobe Flash TV's." Coincidence? :-O
Maybe, and I'm speculating, there is a dual meaning to Adobe's "Flash" product?
The news about this seems to indicate that it the exploit works with any OS. So, the mechanism of infection must be must be common...
Flash is closed-source and almost ubiquitous -- it runs on Linux, Mac, BSD and Windows. It also has a track record of being vulnerable, but... it's also owned by a US company... What if the US government were to offer a contract to Adobe -- or, perhaps (post 911) an offer that they couldn't refuse?
I don't think that the FBI has written that trojan themselves, they have most likely outsourced this work to some security company/consultant. The knowledge to write a reliable, current remote exploit just isn't something an FBI agent needs, and I consider it unlikely that any of them actually has up-to-date knowledge.
He had an ad on his website that blared "Congratulations! You have been selected to win a free Apple IPod!"...he couldn't resist clicking it.
Actually, the FBI can't tell the difference between a criminal and a suspected criminal. In the U.S., it takes a jury (or a guilty plea) to do that.
I was watching some show that had a car chase filmed from a helicopter. Guy had a semi and was wreaking havoc, driving through roadblocks, ramming police cars, going so far as to use his truck to push other cars out of the way when he hit some stopped traffic on the freeway. Finally he's off the road, surrounded by police cars, gets out of his truck, starts fighting, the police eventually get him into the back of a cruiser, the whole thing has been filmed, and the reporter comes on the mic and says "the police are now taking the SUSPECT into custody"... it always floors me when I see something like this and hear the word "suspect." I know, I know: legal terminology, due process, reporter CYAing so he doesn't get sued for slander or libel (I always forget--whichever one doesn't need to be printed) but still, it just makes me laugh out loud every time.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
You have to remember: normal people find legal ways to make money, normal smart people find legal and smart ways to make more money; your average criminal isn't mentally equipped to do either of these.
In short, non-political criminals are dumber or more broken than average, so they do dumber and less logical things than you'd expect. And that's how they get caught.
Is it just me, or does it seem rather contrived that the FBI would (successfully) use a trojan to catch a criminal who is at least someone technically proficient ?
Technically proficient? The guy was an engineer, granted. But one laid off and (supposedly) replaced with foreign labor. So perhaps he wasn't the brightest bulb in the marquee after all, trying to pull a stunt like this.
Have gnu, will travel.
Fine, then play the Intelligence game and feed them disinformation.
Set your user agent to IE while running Linux, and disable JavaScript/Java and any other extensions so they think you're running one OS, and have no way of pulling info to request more information.
For extra points run on a VM that you can strip down to the bare essentials, configure once, and then wipe after each "communication".
If the only ports its allowed to get to is the anonymizer's website/port, and its feeding wrong information about what it is, and not letting anything run, then its about as secure as you can make it ... and still let it connect to the internet.
This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
No, but in Los Angeles, the Trojans exploit YOU!
#1 There was a warrant for the wiretapping.
#2 The guy really did something wrong and against the law.
#3 He was stupid enough to click on whatever installed the trojan.
#4 He was stupid enough to cut Internet cables and demand blackmail and ransom from the ISPS.
We'll just call it an Own Goal for this guy whomever he is.
As long as the majority of the population who don't do these things aren't domestically spied on, it should be alright.
If the FBI wants to see what my Traveller RPG group is doing, we could use another Game Master and a few more players as our Game Master is working a job that requires him to travel and cannot GM any more and a few players had quit. No need to plant a trojan on our computers and read our email.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Lighten up, Francis.
If you get a call from someone who refuses to identify themselves asking you if you'd be willing to edit a couple hidden configuration files and restart your system, but screams "RTFA" when you ask how to locate those files, then you have the Linux version.
Fixed that for you.
> Reports say police used their "gun" technology to do this.
ok, what type of gun? Rifle, pistol, howitzer?
Also ENG guys don't use film anymore these days!
This just in - law enforcement agencies recently admitted to having in their possession tools that allow them to "fire" projectiles at very high velocities. These "guns" can and have been used to kill people.
So the fear here is that law enforcement has tools that can be used in a bad way. But by all accounts (including the poster's) they were used in this instance specifically to detect the identities of people visiting a private web site specifically set up by the demand of someone strongly suspected of doing something illegal?
It seems it is the belief of most here that government be is untrustworthy that it be dissolved completely, or at the least be handcuffed and incapacitated to the point of being ineffective of doing anything, good or bad, for the fear of it doing bad. Have you strongly considered the alternative? Is anarchy really all that much better?
I know /. is anti-government to the point of being institutionally paranoid, but isn't this a bit much?
If you get a call asking you if you'd be willing to [...] restart your system, then you have the Linux version.
Restart your system? And ruin my uptime? OOooooh I wish I would get a call like that. I would lecture said person ad nauseam about the foolishness of rebooting, when you can just restart the service in question, whether he was a M$ lackey, how he could explain the reboot to his senior sysadmin, et cetera. Without so much as a breath, I'd then continue and venture into the GNU/Linux question, how great Samba is, Sony's questionable activities, the intricacies of the CC attribute-blah-blah license et cetera et cetera.
Oh BOY, please SOMEONE CALL ME and tell me to REBOOT my SYSTEM!
8 of 13 people found this answer helpful. Did you?
A simple drive to the local starbucks with a spoofed mac address would have solved that problem.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I wonder if the popular antivirus programs are capable of detecting and removing this trojan?
I wonder if coding them to do so would be against the law, and expose the antivirus vendor to some kind of obstruction-of-justice, or terrorism, charge.
Anyone know?
http://bayimg.com/image/bapjkaabc.jpg
If you get a call from someone who refuses to identify themselves asking you if you'd be willing to edit a couple hidden configuration files and restart your system, but screams "RTFA" when you ask how to locate those files, then you have the Slashdot version.
Fixed that for you.
Fixed that for you.
Don't you wish your girlfriend was a geek like me?
(wired) "In several of the cases outlined, the FBI hosted the CIPAV on a website, and tricked the target into clicking on a link." "The CIPAV will be deployed via a Uniform Resource Locator (URL) address posted to the subject's private chat room on MySpace.com.""
You have to wonder though, in such use this trojan must end up on the PCs of people who are not Suspects, and the data is handed back to the FBI.
Any one really think they do not have a Linux version? It's harder, but not impossible, and certainly desirable.
After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
Yeah, it wouldn't get your typical /. geek, but most criminals aren't known for their foresight or intelligence. "Oh, the private website with the bank account information needs me to install this software! Ok, what could possibly go wrong?"
Correction: Most criminals that are known, aren't known for their foresight or intelligence.
Can I have some synergy to go with your vector?
Go PHB elsewhere.
It's why everything is "United States" this and "United States" that. It has nothing to do with the American states of the republic.
In this case, the FBI did catch a "bad guy". They needed a warrant to do it, however, because without it they set a legal precedent that they can install a trojan on anyone's machine.
Ten, yes 10! That's how many scripts computerworld tried to run just to read a cheesy article. Screw them.
I have on my Net enabled suitcase...
How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
Not that I know how this happens, but the IP address could be x-reffed w/ the offenders time online. That get's x-reffed w/ video surveilance and you got your guy.
How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
With speeding for the last 8 years. I have to say, while some parts are a lot easier (spot checks become instinctual, if it's not one of you, it's one of them, etc..)
There are other parts that get very difficult. Recently traffic enforcement officers have cars w/ cloaked light bars, and stock paint jobs. They can now use li / radar /laser while moving. I still refuse to get a detector as I feel it makes you sloppy, complacent.
I recently got caught cause I was on my cell phone (luckily I got out of the ticket), not paying attention, and that's why I am all for the ban.
How much is your data worth? Back it up now.
In a related story, local law enforcement shot a criminal who tried to hold up a 7-11 when he resisted arrest and brandished a knife. Reports say police used their "gun" technology to do this.
This is offtopic but, the police should be using their TAZER technology here rather than a gun, unless there wasn't one available and they needed to take immediate action to stop him.
How can they be sure they hackt he right guy?
More importantly...how do they make sure they DON'T hack the WRONG guy?
- it was called PIFTS.exe
Um... seriously? If they know the specific customer they wouldn't need to install the trojan.
It's not disclosed how the "trojan" is loaded onto the perpetrator's system, however getting that system to request and execute your code cuts through what is potentially a very hairy situation: who knows how many layers of abstraction the perp is using to hide from traces.
It's only news on Slashdot and that speaks more to slashdot paranoia rather than police corruption. Cue someone calling me naive.
hmmmm.
The idea of any expectations of privacy have long ago been eclipsed by the need for security.
The last havens of private conversation are the
stroll on the beach, hike in the woods and the
exchange of a used book.
Shall we play a game?
This link explains it all! (NSFW)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP1SsfnSFDs
Well - only if one is foolish enough to surf the web and check email and do your other daily computer chores, while being logged in as root/administrator to your computer ...
rootkits, malware, trojan, etc. still require root/administrator rights to install themselves.
http://kareldjag.over-blog.com/article-1232530.html
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb456992(loband).aspx
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc700846(loband).aspx
The above is old school on Unix (and applies to any OS) - only login as root/administrator if you need to do system maintenance.
For everything else use a Least Privilege User Account.
And - first install and run software in an isolated virtual machine with InstallWatch running and see what is being installed/executed. If the installer/software is doing anything suspicious, simply do not install it on your real machine. As simple as that ...
The term rootkit or root kit originally referred to a maliciously modified set of administrative tools for a Unix-like operating system that surreptitiously granted root access. If an intruder could replace the standard administrative tools on a system with a rootkit, ...
corroboration?
``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
You've got the order backwards; the way the FBI is handling computer crimes these days, they don't turn agents into hackers, its the other way around. I'm dead serious. Of the two agents I worked with the most, one was specifically an IT guy whose work history included being a corporate sysadmin. They have far more up to date knowledge than you might expect, and an excellent network of civilian consultants for the things that they do need help with.
Pyrrhic victory, as in Pyrrhus the Greek general.
Please tell me you've been pronouncing it as "Firric" all this time!
I concede your point. I'm not sure what I was thinking. I probably shouldn't post when I'm drunk ;-)
if a warrant was obtained first, the FBI actually did this the RIGHT way, and that makes me happy.
Serious? That's all you need? When a warrant can be "obtained" for any reason? I'm not saying all/most/some warrants are unlawful, but there are still exceptions. To blindly say, "as long as they had a piece of paper, whatever they do is fine with me!"
I don't know how the above was posted as anonymous coward. I'm not even drunk! In any case, the post was from me, for the record.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun