I know it's not directly tied to your post, but your words immediately got me thinking about Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who is the chief medical correspondent on CNN and was a nominee for US Surgeon General. He's a very well-spoken professional and is not shy about sharing his opinions on medical issues such as universal coverage and embryonic cell research.
It seems "recycling" is a gimmick is at best delaying the inevitable. So once Bob in Africa can no longer the old Motorola I donated to some freecycling group, he's going to throw it away. How does this really help the environment aside from making the original donator know he's not going to be the one directly throwing the phone away?
Even if we tried to recycle the plastic (as in melt it down or whatever), wouldn't that cause worse emissions?
Apollo 11, 1969, Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, Michael Collins Apollo 12, 1969, Charles (Pete) Conrad, , Alan Bean, Richard Francis Gordon Apollo 14, 1971, Alan Shepard, Edgar Mitchell, Stuart Roosa Apollo 15, 1971, David Scott, James Irwin, Alfred Worden Apollo 16, 1972, John Young, Charles Duke, Thomas Mattingly Apollo 17, 1972, Eugene Cernan, Harrison Schmitt, Ronald Evans
I'm going to get burned for saying this, but if who here actually thinks these aforementioned drugs should remain legal? Everyone who is posting in here is having a one-sided conversation.
Perhaps I'm not giving enough credit to Wikipedia/Wikimedia, but I haven't heard much about involvment by professional preservationists who know how to catalog and preserve the stuff, even in a digital context. I speak of the hardcore phd librarian and historian/librarian hybrid types who know how to do this stuff.
Good question, but I don't think you're going to like my answer.
I didn't have much art in school. I did, however have lots of English, math, history, and science courses. Going back to my unscientific survey, I did ask those same people if their primary and secondary schools had art offerings. The answer was "no".
Granted, art (especially music class and drawing classes) classes have been well-proven to improve thought processes. So yes, both PE and Art should be offered. Give the kid a flute and not a keyboard.
These are all great points, and it reminded me of a recent point I made in a somewhat recent discussion....
Seriously, I didn't have it and I don't see why kids need them now to learn.
From hindsight, I grew up in a lower middle class neighborhood in the 1980s. My parents threw in all they earned for me to attend a Catholic school, and they didn't offer much in the way of computers. When I went on to Catholic high school in the early 90s, I didn't get much in the way with computers until I took AP Computer Science which was taught using already old 286 boxes. I went on to earn my BSCS and have been developing and designing software for about the past 7 years.
More anecdotal evidence. Many people I know who have come to work (not just in software) in the US from countries such as China, India, and Russia when told me their first exposure to computers was around 16-18, right when they are beginning to enter their upper learning institutions.
Fortunately, Physical Education class is cheaper and meets all of these objectives and has other wonderful benefits! It's not fair to choose one over the other, yet many seem to value computer education over physical education in schools, especially with budget cuts.
Oh I heard of the Lancaster. A couple problems with the Lancaster being the choice to drop a bomb of that weight and size:
1. The Lancaster wouldn't have had big enough doors to drop the bomb. 2. Only with a minimal load would the Lancaster been able to travel a comparable distance. This was important as the Enola Gay (for example) needed to travel a very long distance to drop the bomb.
I think you raise good points, but you're avoiding my point. I'll be more than happy to repeat it again:
It may have taken some immigrant geniuses to help make the bomb boom really big, but you still needed some good minds to help design something capable of dropping something of that type of payload after flying a long distance.
Even with your point on the Lancaster, I'm sure most of it was designed by native-born Brits, so perhaps we are actually in some form of agreement?
People seem to forget some of our greatest scientists EVER were defectors from our old enemies like, you know, Nazi Germany.
I think many here are assuming that the parent was talking about those rocket scientists who came to the US after WW2. Instead, I think the parent is implying those Jewish scientists who fled Nazi Germany and helped develop the manhattan project.
With that said, I think the parent is overlooking the fact that once you had a big bomb that can go boom, no plane was around until the B 29 Superfortress which was able to carry such a heavy bomb for that long of a distance. That was not developed by the somewhat overrated "immigrant minds". This was developed by many great hardworking american minds powered by the good ol' american ingenuity.
While it's important to value immigrant minds and their contributions to this country, it's disappointing we gradually are ignoring the accomplishments of our home-bred minds.
I realize we can talk set theory all day, but look at the low numbers of blacks and hispanics graduating. Here are some interesting high points from 2007:
* 430 non-hispanic whites got a phd in CS. Only 20 hispanics and 19 blacks got a phd in CS. * 1,115 API's got a BS in CS and 5,158 whites got a BS. Only 412 hipsanics and 261 blacks got a BS in Compuer Science.
As a latino with a CS degree, this angers me for a number of reasons.
First and foremost, I don't think it's soley the fault of the "white man". Whites and Asians need to work harder to be more inclusive to minorities. Not by giving them a free pass or admission into college, but by seeking out and mentoring young minority students. Minority students also need to seek out mentors regardless of race or gender. I only had white and asian mentors.
Has anyone ever once argued that maybe--just maybe--I really really like computers?
The problem with your statement-in-the-form-of-a-question is that there are many outside the set of [white male, south asian male, and east asian male], there are many who really really like computers but never had the opportunities like yourself which you probably never realized you had.
Short personal example: I'm latino and when I was growing up in Monterey Park in the 1980s, I was in the Boys and Girls club. There was a computer lab which would be open to kids for a few hours each week and it was on a first come, first serve basis. I would always camp out in front of the door so I'd be first in line. However, I was never let in and other kids would pass in front of me. My mom found out about this and when she went to the staff to ask why, they told her "We figured he would take a long time to figure out how to use a computer."
It's sometimes a lot of those little things that add up which dissuade people from wanting to continue (let alone try) a shot at CS. Granted, I didn't give those little things much attention. However, there are many more who are minorities which do.
Again, it's not your fault people choose to avoid CS, but hopefully when you were in college you did everything you could to be inclusive with peoples from all backgrounds.
Other issues, such as the Patriot Act, have made foreign companies wary about having their data on US servers.
No. Other forces such as wanting increase profit margins are probably having a bigger influence.
WRT legislation, the Sarbanes-Oxley Act has probably had a greater impact on influencing companies on their move. Provisions within S-OX require companies to provide access to data to allow for full data audits. That would include emails, internal reports, etc.
Unfortunately this thread has become more of a discussion about Americans in general instead of American voters. Most of the posters here make it sound like there was a time when at least a noticeable American minority knew science. What a bunch of bullshit.
How could a country which never knew much science (nor grammar;-), yet still flourish? I know you Europeans are still trying to figure it out. Some have suggested the great abundance of resources which would outweigh any stupid decisions we'd make.
However even in a lot of those books that some of your (you Europeans;-) observers came to the US in the 19th century all note the same thingy: community*. Town halls, fairs, etc. Acceptance of the majority's decision, peaceful regime change, etc. Stuff that would take about 100 or so more years for the Europeans to figure out.
Also throw in the fact of all the Puritans with their individualistic idealism with white guys who wanted to make a quick buck off cheap/free labor. This sort of culture allowed the acceptance of ideas rejected by the European scientific and rank & file establishments to flourish here.
* - Unfortunately, this community part of American culture has been waning for a few decades, and I fear this upsurge of voluntarily polarization will put the US at risk.
... ok "green" is sort of ambiguous but oh what the hell. The city of Greensburg, Kansas is attempting to become the first city in the US to meet Platinum LEED certification. What's interesting is that the city was given a chance to become this green city because a huge tornado took out 95% of the city in 2007.
The US has nothing to offer us that we don't already have.
Hold up a second! You forgot to mention of our special relations: 1. Trade. Canada is the largest trading partner of the US. 2. Food. You don't get all your food from the great plains of your country. Otherwise you would have yearly fall harvests.
As stated, please mod parent up. The GP either cares to forget or is ignorant to point out that one of the greatest examples of racist bigotry existed in Stone Mountain, Georgia. The extreme racist not-so-recent past of Stone Mountain was so relevant that Martin Luther King referred to it in his "I Have a Dream" speech:
Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia.
To the grandparent's credit, there is relevant racism outside of the south. From urban gentrification to the unreported surge brown-on-black violence, strong elements of racism do exist. However, these trends outside of the south cannot be attributed to only Caucasians.
I think the parent is unfortunately generalizing consulting, but I won't try to get into some long-winded explanation either.
I do not disagree with the parent's statements wrt to at least how the top-tier guys operate. However, there are many large consultancies (Accenture, Deloitte, etc.) which have professionals of various backgrounds which also do all the implementation activities he assumes only contractors do. Yes, that includes coding.
I'm in a small-to-medium sized consultancy, so my perspective is pretty different compared to the parent's. In consultancies of that size, consultants can toggle through many roles or have many roles all at once on the same project. That would include (but not limited to) business analyst, architect, and developer. For small consultancies this demonstrates flexibility to the client which hopefully also reduces overhead unfortunately associated with a top-tier driven model. For consultants within these smaller organizations, there is more security and greater opportunity to become a stronger technical professional.
Slashdot Mirror
It's been over 7 years since 9/11, so I'm not sure how relevant painting burning towers now would be for a kid who probably wasn't born yet.
For those who say history shouldn't be covered up, that's true, but this isn't a history book. It's a coloring book aimed toward coping with disaster.
I know it's not directly tied to your post, but your words immediately got me thinking about Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who is the chief medical correspondent on CNN and was a nominee for US Surgeon General. He's a very well-spoken professional and is not shy about sharing his opinions on medical issues such as universal coverage and embryonic cell research.
Who knows, you may actually produce the next Memento, Reservoir Dogs, or Slumdog Millionaire.
I hate to punch another hole in your comment, but it looks like even Slumdog Millionare is an adaptation of a book called Q and A.
tnx
The summary is so patently ridiculous that I really have to wonder if it was submitted as a joke or is an attempt to troll Slashdot.
You just had to say "patently" in the context of this thread didn't you?
PS - to you smartasses, yes I know there's a difference between trademarks, copyrights, patents, etc.
It seems "recycling" is a gimmick is at best delaying the inevitable. So once Bob in Africa can no longer the old Motorola I donated to some freecycling group, he's going to throw it away. How does this really help the environment aside from making the original donator know he's not going to be the one directly throwing the phone away?
Even if we tried to recycle the plastic (as in melt it down or whatever), wouldn't that cause worse emissions?
Apollo 11, 1969, Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, Michael Collins
Apollo 12, 1969, Charles (Pete) Conrad, , Alan Bean, Richard Francis Gordon
Apollo 14, 1971, Alan Shepard, Edgar Mitchell, Stuart Roosa
Apollo 15, 1971, David Scott, James Irwin, Alfred Worden
Apollo 16, 1972, John Young, Charles Duke, Thomas Mattingly
Apollo 17, 1972, Eugene Cernan, Harrison Schmitt, Ronald Evans
I'm going to get burned for saying this, but if who here actually thinks these aforementioned drugs should remain legal? Everyone who is posting in here is having a one-sided conversation.
Anyone?
Or what about those who think immunizing their kids will bring about Autism?
Since you refer to "Freedom of Information Act" I'm assuming you're speaking in an American context.
We already do this. Look here:
United States Library of Congress
The National Archives
Perhaps I'm not giving enough credit to Wikipedia/Wikimedia, but I haven't heard much about involvment by professional preservationists who know how to catalog and preserve the stuff, even in a digital context. I speak of the hardcore phd librarian and historian/librarian hybrid types who know how to do this stuff.
Good question, but I don't think you're going to like my answer.
I didn't have much art in school. I did, however have lots of English, math, history, and science courses. Going back to my unscientific survey, I did ask those same people if their primary and secondary schools had art offerings. The answer was "no".
Granted, art (especially music class and drawing classes) classes have been well-proven to improve thought processes. So yes, both PE and Art should be offered. Give the kid a flute and not a keyboard.
These are all great points, and it reminded me of a recent point I made in a somewhat recent discussion....
Seriously, I didn't have it and I don't see why kids need them now to learn.
From hindsight, I grew up in a lower middle class neighborhood in the 1980s. My parents threw in all they earned for me to attend a Catholic school, and they didn't offer much in the way of computers. When I went on to Catholic high school in the early 90s, I didn't get much in the way with computers until I took AP Computer Science which was taught using already old 286 boxes. I went on to earn my BSCS and have been developing and designing software for about the past 7 years.
More anecdotal evidence. Many people I know who have come to work (not just in software) in the US from countries such as China, India, and Russia when told me their first exposure to computers was around 16-18, right when they are beginning to enter their upper learning institutions.
Fortunately, Physical Education class is cheaper and meets all of these objectives and has other wonderful benefits! It's not fair to choose one over the other, yet many seem to value computer education over physical education in schools, especially with budget cuts.
Oh I heard of the Lancaster. A couple problems with the Lancaster being the choice to drop a bomb of that weight and size:
1. The Lancaster wouldn't have had big enough doors to drop the bomb.
2. Only with a minimal load would the Lancaster been able to travel a comparable distance. This was important as the Enola Gay (for example) needed to travel a very long distance to drop the bomb.
I think you raise good points, but you're avoiding my point. I'll be more than happy to repeat it again:
It may have taken some immigrant geniuses to help make the bomb boom really big, but you still needed some good minds to help design something capable of dropping something of that type of payload after flying a long distance.
Even with your point on the Lancaster, I'm sure most of it was designed by native-born Brits, so perhaps we are actually in some form of agreement?
People seem to forget some of our greatest scientists EVER were defectors from our old enemies like, you know, Nazi Germany.
I think many here are assuming that the parent was talking about those rocket scientists who came to the US after WW2. Instead, I think the parent is implying those Jewish scientists who fled Nazi Germany and helped develop the manhattan project.
With that said, I think the parent is overlooking the fact that once you had a big bomb that can go boom, no plane was around until the B 29 Superfortress which was able to carry such a heavy bomb for that long of a distance. That was not developed by the somewhat overrated "immigrant minds". This was developed by many great hardworking american minds powered by the good ol' american ingenuity.
While it's important to value immigrant minds and their contributions to this country, it's disappointing we gradually are ignoring the accomplishments of our home-bred minds.
I figure since I'm going to be karma burned for what I'm about to say I might as well be upfront on my title.
http://www.cra.org/CRN/articles/may08/taulbee.html
PHD breakdown: http://www.cra.org/CRN/articles/may08/taulbee.html
BS and MS breakdown: http://www.cra.org/CRN/articles/may08/tables9to16.html
I realize we can talk set theory all day, but look at the low numbers of blacks and hispanics graduating. Here are some interesting high points from 2007:
* 430 non-hispanic whites got a phd in CS. Only 20 hispanics and 19 blacks got a phd in CS.
* 1,115 API's got a BS in CS and 5,158 whites got a BS. Only 412 hipsanics and 261 blacks got a BS in Compuer Science.
As a latino with a CS degree, this angers me for a number of reasons.
First and foremost, I don't think it's soley the fault of the "white man". Whites and Asians need to work harder to be more inclusive to minorities. Not by giving them a free pass or admission into college, but by seeking out and mentoring young minority students. Minority students also need to seek out mentors regardless of race or gender. I only had white and asian mentors.
Has anyone ever once argued that maybe--just maybe--I really really like computers?
The problem with your statement-in-the-form-of-a-question is that there are many outside the set of [white male, south asian male, and east asian male], there are many who really really like computers but never had the opportunities like yourself which you probably never realized you had.
Short personal example: I'm latino and when I was growing up in Monterey Park in the 1980s, I was in the Boys and Girls club. There was a computer lab which would be open to kids for a few hours each week and it was on a first come, first serve basis. I would always camp out in front of the door so I'd be first in line. However, I was never let in and other kids would pass in front of me. My mom found out about this and when she went to the staff to ask why, they told her "We figured he would take a long time to figure out how to use a computer."
It's sometimes a lot of those little things that add up which dissuade people from wanting to continue (let alone try) a shot at CS. Granted, I didn't give those little things much attention. However, there are many more who are minorities which do.
Again, it's not your fault people choose to avoid CS, but hopefully when you were in college you did everything you could to be inclusive with peoples from all backgrounds.
Mod parent up. It's especially disappointing people in this day and age don't know what a metal shop is.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94764491
about.com
*cranes*
Other issues, such as the Patriot Act, have made foreign companies wary about having their data on US servers.
No. Other forces such as wanting increase profit margins are probably having a bigger influence.
WRT legislation, the Sarbanes-Oxley Act has probably had a greater impact on influencing companies on their move. Provisions within S-OX require companies to provide access to data to allow for full data audits. That would include emails, internal reports, etc.
Unfortunately this thread has become more of a discussion about Americans in general instead of American voters. Most of the posters here make it sound like there was a time when at least a noticeable American minority knew science. What a bunch of bullshit.
How could a country which never knew much science (nor grammar ;-), yet still flourish? I know you Europeans are still trying to figure it out. Some have suggested the great abundance of resources which would outweigh any stupid decisions we'd make.
However even in a lot of those books that some of your (you Europeans ;-) observers came to the US in the 19th century all note the same thingy: community*. Town halls, fairs, etc. Acceptance of the majority's decision, peaceful regime change, etc. Stuff that would take about 100 or so more years for the Europeans to figure out.
Also throw in the fact of all the Puritans with their individualistic idealism with white guys who wanted to make a quick buck off cheap/free labor. This sort of culture allowed the acceptance of ideas rejected by the European scientific and rank & file establishments to flourish here.
* - Unfortunately, this community part of American culture has been waning for a few decades, and I fear this upsurge of voluntarily polarization will put the US at risk.
... ok "green" is sort of ambiguous but oh what the hell. The city of Greensburg, Kansas is attempting to become the first city in the US to meet Platinum LEED certification. What's interesting is that the city was given a chance to become this green city because a huge tornado took out 95% of the city in 2007.
The US has nothing to offer us that we don't already have.
Hold up a second! You forgot to mention of our special relations:
1. Trade. Canada is the largest trading partner of the US.
2. Food. You don't get all your food from the great plains of your country. Otherwise you would have yearly fall harvests.
a low crime rate
What about the ethnic tensions you country refuses to admit? http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/11/america/montreal.php
I'm hoping you'd reply by saying "that's another part of Canada". That'll make us sound even more similar. =)
As stated, please mod parent up. The GP either cares to forget or is ignorant to point out that one of the greatest examples of racist bigotry existed in Stone Mountain, Georgia. The extreme racist not-so-recent past of Stone Mountain was so relevant that Martin Luther King referred to it in his "I Have a Dream" speech:
Let freedom ring from Stone Mountain of Georgia.
To the grandparent's credit, there is relevant racism outside of the south. From urban gentrification to the unreported surge brown-on-black violence, strong elements of racism do exist. However, these trends outside of the south cannot be attributed to only Caucasians.
I think the parent is unfortunately generalizing consulting, but I won't try to get into some long-winded explanation either.
I do not disagree with the parent's statements wrt to at least how the top-tier guys operate. However, there are many large consultancies (Accenture, Deloitte, etc.) which have professionals of various backgrounds which also do all the implementation activities he assumes only contractors do. Yes, that includes coding.
I'm in a small-to-medium sized consultancy, so my perspective is pretty different compared to the parent's. In consultancies of that size, consultants can toggle through many roles or have many roles all at once on the same project. That would include (but not limited to) business analyst, architect, and developer. For small consultancies this demonstrates flexibility to the client which hopefully also reduces overhead unfortunately associated with a top-tier driven model. For consultants within these smaller organizations, there is more security and greater opportunity to become a stronger technical professional.