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Sarah Connor Chronicles — Why It Died
brumgrunt writes "Sarah Connor was a non-populist, meditative, complex piece of television on a smash-bang, show-me-the-ratings kind of network. The two were never going to get on. Plus: how the Terminator name proved more hindrance than aid."
... you're a fanboy, aren't you?
Too bad because i liked it. The first couple of episodes were painful to watch but later on it actually turned into a good bit of sci-fi. Plus it had the babe from firefly in it.
...in some fashion. Fox has learned that geeks buy DVDs of TV shows they once loved. Sometimes they even make new content.
It had Summer Glau in it. Jewel Staite and Morena Baccarin are the babes from Firefly. Little Summer needs to grow up a bit, and eat a sammich or two before I'm willing to call her a babe.
I write sci-fi for metalheads
Not enough scenes of Summer Glau in a wet t-shirt.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Oh, you mean dull. Or as Homer Simpson would say:
B-o-o-r-i-n-n-g.
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A simpler explanation is that this show was just another attempt to increase the profits of the terminator franchise. I suspect that given the number of people involved, and the number of people that had to be paid off to gain the rights to the characters, ideas, and franchise made the show too expensive. p It seems to me that the same show could have been made with new characters at a lower cost. I am sure the network thought the fact that this was terminator meant that more people would watch it and they would recover the additional costs. Obviously they were wrong.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
haha
She's that woman your PC searches for with its free cycles.
The reason it died, is because the first season and a half were mediocre, and it only really ramped up to 'being good' right towards the end of season 2.
As slow starters go, it's not really any suprise it's canned.
Oh, that must be Maria Ozawa's real name, then.
Which is to say, "Elitist, Slow-Moving, Muddled."
Never watched the show, but thanks for the tip; you've told me all I need to know to stay away from the torrents and DVDs.
I think more to the point it was none of those things. He's using the terms to rationalize why the show was canceled. Basically saying the show was too good for FOX and that's what FOX canceled it but if it was on another network, it would have lived on...honestly, no, because it SUCKED!
Bottom line: another Logon's Run.
The reason I want to see the movie today is because I enjoyed the TV series.
I have to wonder if part of the problem is the "ratings" system itself. Isn't it possible that while Neilsen families aren't watching it, college kids and others are watching it... owe WERE watching it?
Fox and other networks are going to have to put up their OWN bit torrent shares of their TV shows and start seeing for themselves which ones are the most popular and which ones aren't. It won't stop people from looking at the TV when it's on. It won't stop people from buying the DVDs when they come out. (I downloaded every episode of the terminator TV series, bought season one and am waiting for season two on DVD so I can clear up the space on my drives.)
These media publishers and their digital phobias... they need to USE the digital and not fear it so much.
Why it Died: cost > income
Combination - fun iPhone puzzling
The show was good, a handful of people here saying it sucked makes no difference in the big picture. What the article dosn't talk about was the change-over in corporate leadership and show time scheduling. As the studio leadership changed over, they had new people take over that wanted to push their perfered shows; the re-do the scheduleing and put Terminator: TSCC at a time slot that was certin to kill the show, just so they could take the better time slot and push their programming. Also, they never really announced when they changed from the orignal show day and time. The die hard fans picked up on this, but the regular viewers who enjoyed the show had no clue and figured, hey guess it got cancelled and never bothered to look into it further, so the ratings dropped, and the show finally did get cancelled. Too bad, it was a good story line, and they never had filler episodes, each episode was a continuation of the previous, which i liked very much.
no no no. That would be Samantha Who?, and it got canceled too.
--- "When you gotta do something wrong. You gotta do it right. (Fighter)"
I watched it a couple of times to see some cool terminator robots. Everyone was human-looking. Yawn for no-budget and no cool terminator robots.
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Movie 1. Robot from the future comes back in time to kill someone but another human is also sent back in time to try to save them.
Movie 2. See 1 but there is another robot sent back instead of a human.
Movie 3. See 2.
TV series, see 3.
Will the killer robot kill the hero this week? Will the hero robot kill the killer robot this week? And the plot never changes. The killer robot doesn't take out the rest of humanity. It doesn't even try to kill his grandparents. Great-grandparents. Etc.
I can understand trying to build a storyline to try to build a base to build the story on, but to spend an entire season doing so...not the way to make good TV. They spent the entire season moving towards something, but we never really got any idea of the something until the last 45 minutes of the season.
let me spell out a basic point here: Terminator = Action there was little action this season.
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
WTB Blu-ray release of Farscape.
It's damn near impossible to find Farscape, outside of the Peacekeeper Wars for a reasonable price.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
Networks are now interested in "reality" shows where they can get a bunch of stupid, likeable-only-by-morons, "contestants" to make complete twats of themselves, and who are naive enough to be easily manipulated into becoming a corporate cash cow and puppet. That is, until the fickle audience grow weary of them; usually within a few weeks.
A lot of TV shows have vanished from our screens because of this: Terminator, My Name is Earl, Scrubs, Frasier, Samantha Who... the list is endless.
And when you have much of the western world swooning over a 48 year old singer who shows up to Britain's Got Talent, why the fuck would you want to pay script writers, actors, researchers, and marketers? These people cost money; they're a drain on profits.
From the boardroom's point of view, you can't beat a bunch of teenagers with mobile phones who are willing to text 30 votes a night, at £1 per message to shove someone onto a global stage and thereby generate even more revenue when you dig them out a year later.
This is the future of television, people; that's why I watch so little of it these days.
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My assumption was that it was going to be a cheesy capitalization on the Terminator franchise to drum up attention for T4. Fortunately, episodes were on Hulu (take note network execs) and it quickly became my favorite television series.
I'm sure this was a pervasive problem. The movies are mostly generic action movies (although I think T2 stands out). The best selling points of the Sarah Connor Chronicles--intricate plot, interesting and well-developed characters, emotional conflict, etc.--are exactly what you would assume to be weak-points if you watched the movies. Even though I enjoyed the movies, I was ready to skip the series, because even if they kept up with blockbuster quality shooting, I just didn't think that I'd like to see the same kind of plot stretched over a season. But now I wish the movies had been more like the series.
I loved especially how they would often shoot episodes using different styles of storytelling. It is a nice break from formula-shows (another huge surprise coming from the Terminator franchise!) and shows a true mastery of skill.
I am alright with the series ending where it did, however. They tied up all the loose ends introduced previously despite popping a few new ones, and I'd rather have a great series come to a dignified close than have it devolve into some dumbed down marketing-droid version which would force me to start hating it.
I hope like other well-done film, which was not immediately popular, that the Sarah Connor Chronicles will gradually gain wide renown and inspire emulation.
When things get complex, multiply by the complex conjugate.
IANYAUAFB.
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Weirdo.
Anyone who actually watched the show would know the plot was not like that.
It wasn't some Kung-Fu the Legend Continues. It had a very complex plot with many main characters. Outstanding writing, acting, suspense, and plot development made this the best show on television.
One of the reasons mentioned is the same reason I didn't like Heros and 24. If you missed the first couple of episodes, you may as well go home.
I'm pretty good at gathering threads up just from watching a show for a few minutes (pisses off my wife who can't seem to follow along and she's watched 24 from the first episode).
So I suspect, and the article seems to confirm it, that the show was written with an eye towards releasing it to DVD.
My wife and I watched Heroes first season and I really like it. Enough that I wanted to watch it when it came on for the second season. But with the commercials every 10 minutes and 5 minutes of commercials at the end, I finally bailed. I'm sure I'll get the DVD for the second series and will probably like it a lot.
24 is similar. It's written from start to finish. Like a long movie. You wouldn't come in in the middle of a movie and expect to understand what's going on.
So we'll get Heroes as they're released, my wife'll get 24 (she already has the first couple of seasons), and we'll get SCC when it's out on DVD (if it isn't already).
[John]
Shit better not happen!
The 1st season I pushed myself through. By the 2nd season it was different but actually getting a little better. There's nothing worse than a show that is cancelled before it can finish off the show, even if doing so makes less sense due to the axe. T3 was a crap rehash of T2. I look forward to Salvation, but am not expecting much, as I fear they might be taking this part of the fabled mostly unseen story down the wrong path. But I expect it cannot be worse than T3. I would've liked one more season to try close off the story.
non-populist, meditative, complex
... and yet they way I learned it existed was through bus stop posters of a woman in a vest with a shotgun slung over her shoulder.
Target your marketing.
Cliff: Well ya see, Norm, it's like this. A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members. In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we know, kills brain cells. But naturally, it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. That's why you always feel smarter after a few beers.
Two seasons, about 30-ish episodes IIRC, isn't so bad as things go. But the problem is that due to the lack of any kind of notice, I'm left with the feeling of only seeing half a story - as if I'd been watching a film that cut out half way through. Sure, the first half might have been really really good, but you'd be annoyed - and you'd never recommend it to anyone else for watching.
Whilst I realise that a lack of long term planning seems to be common for networks like Fox, it seems like most other shows have had a chance to wrap up their story, whether they went on for 10 seasons, or were cancelled after a few episodes. Even Firefly got a DVD to finish up. Rome is another example which was cancelled after only the second season, but they knew in advance, so could pick up the pace and at least tell a complete story.
Terminator OTOH ended on a cliffhanger in Season Two, with many loose ends unanswered through the season. To add to that, Season One suffered due to the writer's strike, and that also had many loose ends that were simply dropped and never resolved. Given that season two had several episodes in the middle that were slow moving and didn't seem to go anywhere, there would have been opportunity to drop some material out to finish the story, if only they knew in advance.
Thankfully they'd made the decision to keep the storyline a separate story from the canon of the films - and a good thing too, what use is half a story to the franchise? Which is a shame, because it was a good story they were telling.
As an aside, I'm curious what ratings are considered "popular" in the US. Here in the UK, over 10 million would be mainstream major success, and about 3 million would still be okay - and that's for a mainstream terrestrial channel. Of course there are also much more people in the US - but I was also under the impression of there being a lot more channels. Given the hundreds of channels of rubbish that gets churned out, it seems odd that good shows have to fight to survive...
Virgin 1, which showed Terminator in the UK, gets ratings of the order of hundreds of thousands ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2007/oct/02/tvratings ), which would be considered good for a non-terrestrial channel. I'd be curious to know what the UK figures for Terminator were like (they were over a million for the debut, record ratings for the channel - http://www.digital-tv.co.uk/blog/terminator-debut-breaks-virgin-1-viewing-figures.html - but I realise it would've dropped off since). Anyone know?
Exactly, the sequel should have been a robot going after the Great Great Great Grandad in the Wild West, or Industrial Revolution era Northern England.
I'm not sure why this got marked as 'troll'. He's absolutely right. I love me some sci fi TV, but this show was best watched in Fast Forward on my DVR.
It wasn't complex. It wasn't meditative. It wasn't non-populist either. It was crappy, though.
Just because something has a shoddy storyline that barely pieces together doesn't mean that it's complex or meditative.
Blessed be he who reads this post, Cursed be he who tells my boss.
The trade press reported very early this year that one of the only reason the show was renewed for the past season was because the production company (Warner Bros.) ate some of the normal costs associated with it so that it could serve as advertising for Terminator: Salvation. Absent a willingness for the production company to do that in the future, FOX can no longer make money on the series.
Compare the show to a show with worse ratings that did get renewed: Dollhouse. Dollhouse is produced by 20th Century Fox, so licensing fees stay within the Murdoch empire. The production company was willing to cut costs on what was already a relatively low budget production. (Ever notice how for a sci-fi show, the set is remarkably unglamorous? It's cheap!) So FOX figured that even with crap ratings, they could turn a profit once DVD sales and the like were figured in.
In both cases, it was entirely a business decision based on whether or not they thought that they could turn a profit.
I felt the same way; for me it was never about Sarah Connor, it was about answering the question of how John Connor grew a pair and started taking on the characteristics of a real leader - the third movie's ending made it all look like an accident of fate when in reality, the seeds of leadership had to be planted somewhere in his life in order for him to cope with the reality that confronted him. It could have served as a nice lead in to the upcoming movie, and in some ways it still accomplished that much.
Actually I think you hit it with the second sentince. It became more about angst (and artificial angst) than about Sci-fi or anything else meaningful. I watched up thru the first half of the second season, and I got frustrated with the characters constantly finding soap-opera reasons for being angry with each other.
The characters just did not seem to take the situation they were in seriously, despite everything they had seen and experienced up to that point. And what ever writer came up with the overused plot device, where a 'good guy' lies to the other 'good guys' or decides not tell them a very important fact because he/she feels they need to 'protect' the others from the truth, needs to be shot. It is a tiresome device and makes the characters appear to be moronic and (to me) makes the characters difficult to watch and the show difficult to enjoy.
The execs at fox (or whoever sets the schedule) put this show on a FRIDAY evening. I don't know how it is now, but when I was a kid, we didn't stay home (especially during a school year) to watch tv. We were out running around, going to the movies, on a date, raising hell. If the people who produced this show were to somehow relaunch this show on another network, say USA or Sci-Fi, and stick it in a good time slot, it would do better. Sticking a show on a Friday evening is like sticking nails in a coffin.
And none of them mattered.
Once the killer robot gets a head shot on the boy (he's dead, no chance of resuscitation) the show is over. The "very complex plot with many main characters" collapses because there is nothing else to carry it.
A well written series would not have that flaw.
I avidly watched that show, but come on. This is all about the fun of seeing Sarah Connor and Cameron trying to look normal. And Cameron beating up people of course (cue xkcd etc).
It's by no mean meditative or complex. Take for example the Turk. A chess program is one of the root of Skynet? Give me a break. Chess programs were cool and impressive 10 years ago. Chess is a narrow game, it's not a measure of intelligence.
Say the writers had picked "Poker" instead. Now that would be interesting. First of all, the show would ride on the wave of popularity of the game... second the game is much more complex. Third, the game requires bots to have a model of the opponents behavior, especially human behavior. Now that's interesting. There are many many ideas that could have been explored. Instead the writers choose the cheap trope, chess = intelligence, chess program = AI.
They could also have tried to explain why skynet does not entirely wipe humanity in the first second of its existence... I mean terminator robots? A super intelligence can surely engineer something more subtle, like a virus.
The only explanation I find is that skynet is mildly retarded, it has the mind of a teenager from the 80's and think robots are cool.
I'll stop here. TSCC is cool but not meditative or complex.
\u262D = \u5350
I have a slightly different take. I thought Season 1 was pretty good and showed promise. The best episodes were on Season 2. Of course, the most god-awful episodes were on Season 2, also.
During Season 1, I remember telling a friend of mine that I like the show, but that I worried it would fall into a cliched formula: meet a new character each week who was there for only the one episode, solve that character's problem, and then forget about the whole thing. Sadly, Season 2 had a lot of this "Touched By A Terminator" nonsense.
The last half-dozen episodes, tying up the whole Riley thread and all, were very, very good. But, the show died because it deserved to. It could have been a good show. Unfortunately, it was a very uneven effort.
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WB produced it and they have the DVD rights. Even if it does REALLY good on DVD, Fox still won't have any motivation to make new seasons.
They do use the digital. Believe me, they're watching the numbers for iTunes, Hulu, and DVRs. And if those numbers are strong, they can help (signs are that they helped Joss make his case for Dollhouse). But fundamentally, Internet and DVRs don't bring the ad revenue, and that's where the network's bread is buttered.
The truth of all this aside, since I can't participate in that particular angle of the discussion (well, at least not intelligently, which I realize is not normally a hindrance to internet "conversation") since I've never watched it, if all the things the submitter said about the show were true, he'd be right.
Fox doesn't like complex narratives because complex narratives don't bring in the viewers, which means they don't bring in the advertisers. Fox is number one right now because of one thing and one thing only: American Idol. That's not a cheap shot at them or their viewers, it's a stone cold fact. American Idol is currently the bread and butter of the Fox lineup and it basically subsidizes experiments like TSCC. Fox is in the business of making money, and they've hooked the lowbrow demographic. Little potshots into "higher art" are really just stabs in the dark meant to try and get that rare unexpected success, and if they don't blow up quickly into reliable revenue streams, they get cancelled so that American Idol's simplistic, popcorn-style entertainment can fund another experiment.
Art and business don't work well together for a reason: they're motivated by different things. Anytime you have widely successful art in both a cultural and financial sense, it's pure dumb luck. Until sci-fi nerds start recognizing that fact, they'll just be disappointed over and over again.
It doesn't matter how smart, complex, or artistic something is, if it's on network TV, it's there to make money, and if it's only appealing to a small, highbrow crowd (whether that applies to the particular show under discussion or not, I have no idea), it's not going to do that, and it won't last long.
Sorry but the show was bad.
I watched a couple of episodes and it seemed to be a mix of:
- Standard T2 storyline
- Family porn (or super-softcore) (e.g. Enterprise)
- One liners
- Creepy sexual tension with the robot
- Lacklustre action scenes
It just didn't grab my attention. Granted I could have watched more of it, but how much effort should *I* have to make to like a show? Shouldn't two episodes pull me in to watch more?
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You make a good point about series there. TV should do more miniseries in which a story is developed and completed drawing to a definite ending. The stories are more compelling when they don't look like they're contrived to keep the series going indefinitely.
A high school classmate of mine works at Fox and told me not to watch anything online which I fear will be cancelled because they don't count those views.
I then had to ask him why would Fox put it up for viewing if they weren't counting the views in the ratings and he couldn't answer.
The reality is: Fox and the other networks (with the odd, possible exception of CBS, which makes noises that makes me think they are beginning to get it) just don't understand how to handle new media or how to place a series in front of an audience in a way that it reaches the optimal number of eyes and works will for the owners of said eyes to watch the show on their time.
Personally: I recorded it and then sent it to my Apple TV (I just can't stand staring at the computer screen when I have a 50" TV in the other room). Even if I missed an episode, I grabbed it off of iTunes as opposed to watching it on Hulu. But, that's just me. Viewed live, recorded, streamed, or downloaded, Fox (and the others) should be counting those numbers.
... that season one was pretty good. Writing was pretty clever, it was an interesting concept. By season two, at least the first couple of episodes I watched before I started hating it, the writing started to crater and it turned in to a classic case of writer trap due to time travel. I think the robot coming back in time to destroy the nuclear power plant episode completely lost me on the whole series. You can only do so much time travel before it starts become obvious its just a crutch for writers who can't think of anything better to do. It reaches a point absolutely nothing has consequences or resolution because in the next episode some time traveler can come in and completely undo everything that's gone before. Star Trek has pretty much had the same problem throughout its history.
Its also a problem with the terminator concept that as the terminators spend more and more time as humans and less and less as menacing robots the concept gets boring. The best parts of the first movie were when Arnold had all his skin burned off and he is a very menacing machine at the end. By movie two liquid terminator does some cool liquid effects but for some reason he is almost ALWAYS the same actor in the same police uniform and there is zero reason he wouldn't have morphed in to some other form except the director didn't want to hire another actor. By movie three the terminator is a hot chick, never changes form, there is no real sense she is a robot. She is just a hot chick the director wanted to milk and that movie just completely sucked. I'm hoping Salvation has lots of good ole menacing robots.
And the geek guy in me really starts hating all the soap opera love interest, especially John Conner's not very appealing love interest. I know they are trying to hook the female demographic but it is the aspect I hated most in Battlestar Galactica too. The series spent most of the time being soap opera and who is screwing who. Of course its cheap to film, good filler, and I guess people are really like that, but you spend half the show on it it stops being sci fi.
@de_machina
Look, if I'm watching a movie about humanity's war against machines, then I want to see machines and humans fighting it out.
Making the machines look like humans is simply a budgetary cop-out.
If I wanted to use my imagination for such epic battles I'd read a book.
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1. It was on Fox. They always cancel good shows after one season.
2. That this show wasn't good was why it got a second season. Being scifi was the final nail in the coffin.
3. It wasn't very good and didn't have much direction. Writers wasted too much time on meaningless filler.
4. Most fundamental problem -- the Terminator universe is tapped out. There's not really many more stories to tell, at least not with the current characters.
5. They're trying to follow up a mega-budget best action movie of all time with a small-budget TV series. Never will a budget be more painfully obvious than in that situation. "We can't afford to fight the Romulans, we don't have the budget for it! We'll have to negotiate."
After T2 I felt that there was really no more need for any sequels, the story was done. If they absolutely had to tell a story, the only one left was the future war. Keeping up with the time travel at this point would have just become a paradox wankfest. T3 turned out to be as weak as everyone feared. T4 has the potential of being good but some of the reviews I read are fairly devastating saying it has 'splosions but no heart, no characters to invest in.
As far as a Terminator TV show goes, it has all the weaknesses of a time travel movie sequel. More terminators have to get sent back, it runs the risk of becoming Highlander except instead of immortal of the week we get terminator of the week. You also end up with villain decay. Arnie was terrifying in T1 and it took a whole movie to kill him. In the TV show you have T-800's showing up and getting whacked with a single blow. Granted, in T1 they had access to shitty weapons and a T1 going up against infantry with heavy weapons would actually be at a disadvantage. Arnie never moved fast enough to avoid taking hits in T1, he was just tough enough to absorb the damage. If the cops were armed with 50 cal machine guns, he'd probably have been immobilized. Anti-armor weapons would blow pieces off of him, hyper-alloy combat chassis or no. But this makes a lot of sense. A Terminator isn't designed to be the perfect armored fighting machine, that's what the huge tanks and hunter-killers were for. The Terminator was about infiltration, trading protection for camouflage. It can pass for a human until it gets close enough to do some damage. It can crawl through the warrens the humans live in, places where the larger units can't fit.
The producers really should have gone and invented their own show instead of making a Terminator spin-off. But if they were dead-set on doing Terminator, they should have just set the whole thing in its own continuity and said "Let's do a Terminator where we don't ignore time paradoxes but embrace them." Show the timelines changing over the course of the show, some things the characters recognize and other things are left only to the audience to observe. Ok, so originally Skynet is getting its ass kicked and decides to time travel to stop the resistance. The war was sixty years in the future and there was no John Connor, it was trying to kill someone else. Kyle Reese was sent back in time, couldn't protect the original target but met and fell in love with Sarah Connor and fathers John Connor. Knowing that the war was coming, they can create a resistance movement before Skynet strikes. The war still happens and now Skynet makes the same time travel assassination decision but focuses on John Connor instead. It fails but pieces are left behind from the original Terminator which accelerates the research program that develops Skynet. Skynet itself is unaware of these changes to the timeline. When it tries sending back a T1000, it schisms the timeline and now there are two competing futures with one common past. Only one of these futures can be realized. So now Skynet is at war with itself since each one wants to be the sole victor.
The way that would play out in the show would have been a fucking head trip. Events of previous episodes may or may not have happened. Characters who were killed may end up being alive again no
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I realize that there are serious commercial reasons for shows being canceled and that's life. However what I have a major beef about is shows that I've been a faithful viewer of being canceled after a major season finale with a massive cliff hanger. It is just not fair to the viewer to leave the a series on such an unresolved note. Just this season they did this with Life, a couple years ago with Invasion and Surface and I'm sure more that I can't think of right this minute. But this just sucks so bad and the network just doesn't care about their viewers.
So, what else was the series going to tell us? What else are the new movies going to tell us?
For one, how that whiny little bitch John Conner could plausibly become the leader of the resistance. T3 utterly failed to do so; its John was more of a whiny bitch than the T2 John who at least had the excuse of being a teenager in foster care who didn't know his dad and thought his mom was a loon, and he didn't change much over the movie.
The show managed to at least accomplish that. He becomes brave, and begins to see how he both inspires and endangers those around him and starts to act somewhat like a leader who you can really see in a few years being ready to do what he has to do.
Plus the two-factions-of-machines plot was beginning to get interesting.
Of course much of that story could have been compressed. That certainly was the show's biggest failing. That funeral episode was a truly painful way to get like one or two minor revelations. If the Season 2 finale had been the Season 1 finale, then the show might be ending at its actual end and it'd be remembered fondly.
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