Slashdot Mirror
ACLU Sues DHS Over Unlawful Searches and Detention
gavron writes "The ACLU has filed suit against DHS to stop the TSA from conducting illegal searches and detention. In the case at hand, TSA detained a Ron Paul staffer who was carrying $4,300 in cash in a metal box. The suit seeks to focus TSA searches on things having to do with increasing security on aircraft, instead of their current practice of 4th-amendment-violating searches, such as those of laptops, iPods, etc."
... a Ron Paul staffer with cash? I thought they all carried gold bouillon.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
Oh, it had to happen to someone important and/or with money.
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
I hate the ACLU with a passion, however and as in this case, they have their uses.
It is not illegal to carry around large sums of money. Of course if you do, law enforcement will take it away saying it's drug related and you have to fight to get it back.
Finally, why didn't he just convert the cash to a money order or cashiers check?
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
I know this is slashdot, but RTFA for details of how this guy was harassed. He was not kindly told to "come here an open it up for us".
Because that's only the first step. They picked this case for the following steps. In such an instance they question the passenger as to why they have the cash and then detain them since having large amounts of currency is 'suspicious'.
http://www.chaotickingdoms.com
If he was carrying over $10,000 they could have reminded him of his legal obligation to file a CMIR. But he wasn't. Carrying $4,700 isn't a reportable event and is none of the TSA's business. (In case you don't know banking regulations: 31 CFR 103.23 requires that a CMIR be filed by anyone who transports, mails, ships or receives, or attempts, causes or attempts to cause the transportation, mailing, shipping or receiving of currency or monetary instruments in excess of $10,000, from or to a place outside the United States. The term ``monetary instruments'' includes currency and instruments such as negotiable instruments endorsed without restriction. See 31 CFR 103.11(k).)
Finally, why didn't he just convert the cash to a money order or cashiers check?
Unless you have an account with a bank, they won't do it.
Two, that's NOT for you to say. I agree carrying that much cash isn't the wisest thing to do, but unfortunately, the way the banks are, cash gets an IMMEDIATE credit to your account whereas a check, regardless of who issues it, means at least a ten day hold on the funds. Also, maybe this guy wanted to make a political statement and actually have grounds to sue the TSA. He actually put his ass on the line and is doing something about it; which more than I can say about your typical Slashdot pontificating whiner.
Three, I hate the ACLU with a passion.
Why?!? Did they defend a certain segment of the population that you hate? Like a black person? Or a homosexual? Or is it because they fought a town for putting up a nativity scene? Or is it because of their stance on gun rights? Even then, to hate them over that?!
You listen to AM radio, don't you.
DHS is just a solution looking for a problem.
About 10 ounces of legalized [ahem] medication.
It's just take a number and they aren't finished defending the First Amendment yet.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
While I'm not a Ron Paul supporter, Precious Metal *is* better than cash. Cash just sits there and loses value to inflation. Precious Metals (historically) don't.
See my sig to learn more.
I don't know. I used to work for someone who sold stuff at computer shows on the weekend. We would carry cash in a metal box. It is frequently known as a cashbox. It had a lock on the front and dividers in it to separate various denominations. I can easily see someone in the situation described transporting the money in a cahsbox (which could easily be described as a "metal box",
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
Unless you have an account with a bank, they won't do it.
the way the banks are, cash gets an IMMEDIATE credit to your account whereas a check, regardless of who issues it, means at least a ten day hold on the funds.
A. Every grocery store in America issues money orders.
B. Cashier's checks are typically deposited immediately. Typically Money Orders are deposited after they post.
C. There are a number of banks that will give you a cashier's check even without a back account at that bank.
D. With a business account, who cares if it takes ten days to clear, that's the cost of doing business.
In my other life, I eat cats.
After 9/11 I thought they lowered it to $10.000.
OK, seriously, I thought they lowered it for international travel to something like $5,000 but I couldn't find confirmation on that.
I don't think there is a limit for domestic travel BUT it would be wise to declare it with the airlines at least 24 hours before you boarded. It's also wise from a practical standpoint to either give up your rights and cooperate with the agents asking questions you have a right to not answer, or plan your itinerary such that you can miss your flight.
The bottom line:
Unless you are deliberately out to "test the system" you will just make your life miserable with nothing to show for it. On the other hand, if you are out to test the system and embarrass the TSA then by all means enforce your rights. Bonus if you have a reporter or better yet a live microphone/broadcasting cellphone with you at the time so people can listen in as its happening.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Unless you have an account with a bank, they won't do it.
Not true. I paid a security deposit with a cashier's check I got by walking up to a bank where I did not have an account and handing the teller $2800 in cash. There is a fee involved, though.
I agree carrying that much cash isn't the wisest thing to do, but unfortunately, the way the banks are, cash gets an IMMEDIATE credit to your account whereas a check, regardless of who issues it, means at least a ten day hold on the funds.
If your bank holds funds you have deposited via check for 10 days, you should get a new bank. I typically have access to funds deposited by check by the next day, two days at the most, without any holds.
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
Having spent time with the TSA, I can tell you first-hand that most TSA people are completely uninformed about their jobs, the law or just about anything they are doing. A TSA screener with half a brain wouldn't have done anything more than call in local law enforcement to perform any interrogations. There are standing instructions to inform law enforcement of anything including large quantities of cash. As to the performance of interrogations? Last time I was there, such things were never instructed. TSA screeners are not law enforcement.
The whole idea of "Department of Homeland Security" is born of a paranoid consolidation of power. It has done more to harm the efficiency of law enforcement and emergency services than it has done to help. The DHS should be dismantled and the pre 9-11 condition restored.
I am okay with government security screening, but only as far as their primary mission. If they do see anything else questionable, the ONLY proper action should be to inform actual law enforcement. "To observe and report."
No, they ARE the problem and they are looking to create more problems. They are the solution to nothing...
-- http://anonet.org -- The internet the way it was meant to be. Check it out, you may be surprised.
You can't put a stop to official abuse unless you stand up to it. And, much as I disagree with Ron Paul and his supporters on just about every policy issue, that seems to be something that he and they understand and prioritize more than most people.
Yes, it sometimes involves personal inconvenience. That people are too interested in avoiding any inconvenience to stand on their rights is exactly what people who would whittle away at those rights rely on.
On a related note, see
United States of America v. $124,700, in U.S. Currency, United States Court of Appeals for the Eight Circuit, No. 05-3295, August 18, 2006.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
He was a giving a talk on a seminar on why gold is better than cash. The $4,300 was part of his props.
And he had to use real money, $4300 worth, for the prop? He couldn't have used Monopoly money to make the same point ("would you rather have gold or worthless paper")? Does he not understand that props don't have to be real?
I hope he doesn't teach CPR. "Now, can I have a volunteer ..."
Wait, you mean all these papers in my pocket that say "FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE" along the top edge aren't just fiat currency aka Monopoly Money?
"Be prepared, son. That's my motto. Be prepared." --Joe Hallenbeck
I-bonds and other inflation-protected securities are are the nearly-perfect hedge against inflation. If the government defaults on those we've got worse things to worry about than inflation.
The face value of "Forever stamps" go up with postage rates, which are supposed to track inflation. The downside is they aren't very convenient to trade and store.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I was making a joke. It must not have been that good if I have to explain it.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
It's also wise from a practical standpoint to either give up your rights and cooperate with the agents asking questions you have a right to not answer, or plan your itinerary such that you can miss your flight.
No, the wise thing to do is stand up and defend your rights, because if you don't, the government will continue to trample them.
The Federal Reserve Board's explanation http://www.federalreserve.gov/pubs/regcc/regcc.htm#determin/ of Regulation CC "Availability of Funds and Collection of Checks" is clear that funds availability is the same for U.S. Postal Service money orders and cashier's checks.
Furthermore, banks are permitted to withhold availability of funds from a deposit until the next business day regardless of whether the deposit was a money order, cashier's check *OR* cash. But banks can use additional excuses (esp. "reasonable cause to doubt the collectibility" what with the recent spate of cashier's check scams) to delay funds availability from either cashier's check deposits or money order deposits while they cannot delay funds availability from cash deposits beyond the business day after deposit.
standing is the other primary obstacle to getting your case heard other than evidence.
"If still these truths be held to be
Self evident."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay
There are two major purposes often associated with money, historically: as a long term store of value and as a medium of exchange. Precious metals, as a medium of exchange, are pretty inconvenient, but better than having no standard at all; cash is for superior for that purpose. Precious metals are a decent store of value. If you tend to store value by hoarding cash, you're probably better off switching to hoarding precious metals. If you use cash mainly as a liquid medium of exchange, and store value in forms other than cash -- which is probably far more common -- you may not stand as much to gain from switching to precious metals for any purpose.
Unless the metal was lead or something obscenly thick (not possible if the person carried it) why couldn't they see through it?
I do not support "The Man". I also do not support your irrational stupidity
If your goal is to ensure future travelers won't be bothered, the wise thing to do is make a stink.
If your goal is to make it to your destination on time the wise thing to do is cooperate.
If you want to do both, plan your departure several days earlier than you need it.
Pick your battles.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
FTFA: "Bierfeldt recorded the audio of the entire incident with his iPhone."
That's a felony in Illinois, and the recording would have been inadmissable in court. Yes, my legislators are liars who don't want to be caught doing something dishonest because of recorded proof. Of course, my previous Governor is headed to court (then hopefully prison) and the guy before that is sitting in prison right now.
And people wonder why our country is in such bad shape...
Free Martian Whores!
Do you actually think that precious metals values don't fluctuate over time? Go look up silver prices during the period when the Brits were selling tons of opium in China. The outflow of silver caused global silver prices to fall.
This notion that somehow or other going back to metals is some sort of panacea is ludicrous, and one of the chief reasons that Paul and his merry band of maniacs are kooks.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
HA HA HA HA HA! Ha ha ha. Heh. Ha ha hah ha ha ha hah!, heh, heh, heh. Hee hee hee. Ha ha ha. That was a good one!(take a look at the $850 high in 1980, inflation adjust and think about how much someone who bought a million dollars of gold then has today).
Forfeiture is rife with conflicts of interests. Those seeking forfeiture should never have more than a token stake in the outcome of the proceedings: enough to cover the marginal legal bills of prosecuting the forfeiture but not much beyond that.
For cash, burn it and destroy the ashes beyond recovery.
For everything else, sell it in a truly open auction then burn the money you raise.
Of course, this should only be done after all proceedings are final.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
TFA is light on details, so maybe this isn't what happened, but it is plausible:
Biefeldt leaves Campaign for Liberty without sufficient time to stop at a bank, grocery store, etc. before he needs to be at the airport to catch his flight. Therefore, although it may not be good practice generally speaking, Bierfeldt elects to carry cash on his return flight rather than converting the cash to a money order or cashier's check first.
All of which is irrelevent anyway. The simple fact is that, whether or not you think it is wise to carry that much cash on your person, Bierfeldt was well within his rights to carry cash on the flight. TSA/DHS is well overdue for a reality check in the court system.
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
>> and Os^Hbama doesn't make change
I saw what you did there. I bet you feel so proud and clever.
It's not like, you know, I've ever seen that before.
-dZ.
Carol vs. Ghost
While I'm not a Ron Paul supporter, Precious Metal *is* better than cash. Cash just sits there and loses value to inflation. Precious Metals (historically) don't.
Cash loses value because supply almost always increase over time. Precious metals generally do not have this problem because the supply is mostly fixed, but demand fluctuates (whereas demand for cash only increases). When the demand for precious metals declines, so does the value.
See my sig to learn more.
Shameless plug. You'll forgive me if I discount your "educational" website as bias.
Right, like I want to call ahead and give someone a heads up that I'm coming in with $40,000 CASH. It's almost as bad as putting stickers on my gun cases proclaiming (Steal me, sell me cheap in a high-crime neighborhood). WTF?
No, I am very aware of the fluctuation of pricing of precious metals.
But I'm also aware that cash *never* gains value, it only loses purchasing power.
Slver, on the other hand, both increases and decreases in value over time, but on average over the last 10 years, has steadily increased:
http://66.38.218.33/scripts/hist_charts/yearly_graphs.plx
Does this mean that Silver will continue to do so? No, obviously. Silver will continue to fluctuate, and can go down as easily as it goes up. It's up to the individual investor to decide when it is time to buy or sell their metal, just as with stocks, real estate, or other investment vehicles.
As a previous commenter mentioned, precious metals are a good option to park wealth, not spending money. Historically, precious metals have never been worth $0.
Here's a graph of gold prices since 1995: http://66.38.218.33/scripts/hist_charts/yearly_graphs.plx
Have your investments done as well, as safely?
The shoebomber was stopped by passengers while the plane was in the air.
I'm by no means a Ron Paul supporter, but I love reading about people who actively challenge the system. For some reason, our citizens have become more and more acclimated to surrendering their rights without question.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
Lack of bad guys taking action is not a positive indication that DHS has done anything. It simply means that forethought and planning by the bad guys has caused them to be unready to act. Nothing we or DHS does will really stop a well educated and well planned action by a terrorist. Get this through your heads, giving up liberty for security does not assure security it simply assures lack of liberty!
Why bother
AC was modded troll. I'm not sure that the mod was fair, or unfair, but he raises a legitimate issue: Was the man looking for this confrontation when he arrived at the airport? Yeah, IMO, he was. I listened to his recording weeks ago, and I've re-read the transcript just now. Yes, he was confrontational.
The question is, HOW WAS THAT WRONG?
Unfair and unjust laws don't just get old, die, get buried, then forgotten. To have unjust laws overturned, SOMEONE HAS TO CHALLENGE THEM!!
The dweeby little dude with strange ideas carrying considerably less than $10,000 through an airport has done us all a service, by focusing public attention on zealots going beyond their jurisdictional duties, trying to get some stupid conviction.
I promise, if I have money in my person, and you want to know how I got the money, I'm gonna tell you to "Fuck off", and I'll likely enforce the order with a firearm, if I have one, or a club, or whatever other weapon is at hand.
Federal law says that I must explain cash transfers in excess of $10,000, but even that law is wrong and oppressive. While I might comply with that law, I WILL complain about it. Don't bother asking me about $9,999.99, because I will NOT cooperate with your lame ass.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
Sounds like you might be interested in my magic meteorite-warding stones. Just pop one of these babies in your pants and you'll never have to worry about meteors falling on you or your house ever again. I've had countless customers who can tell you they really work!
This is just a simple case of some little dick trying to be a big dick and then cry about it when he got called.
Story time! You are on your way to Toronto to attend your cousin's wedding. But as you get into the airport, you realize you have no cash and haven't bought a wedding present yet! So you're not sure if the ATMs in Canada work for your bank and you approach an ATM. You're in a hurry to catch your flight which puts you in Toronto just to catch the wedding and in your haste, you accidentally hit an extra zero after punching in $500 and then hit enter. You're now holding $5,000 in nonconsecutive hundreds (this actually happened to my friend once).
Ok, you're not putting these in your luggage or jacket so you put them on your person and they make a noticeable bulge in the front pocket of your shirt but you don't want to lose them.
Guard notices the bulge as you walk through and asks you what's in your front shirt pocket. You look nervous and start to tell him a contrived story about being in a rush and having $5,000 on you--which is, of course, a hilarious mistake. TSA agent doesn't buy it and wants to know what it's really for. Guy wants to know who you work for. Sad thing is you were just laid off by Best Buy and the severance package of $7,000 is the only way that transaction to your checking account went through. So you tell him you're an unemployed guy going to Toronto with $5,000.
The TSA agent informs you they just arrested a guy with a bunch of cocaine on him in the airport and he's pretty sure you were his contact to make the deal and bring it over to Canada. You don't have any police record and were cleared to fly when you got your ticket but that doesn't matter. After missing the wedding and a night in jail, they can't make it stick and let you go.
You're a victim of better safe than sorry. When--guess what--it's not illegal for you to walk around with $5,000 cash on you.
Nice story, huh? Be a shame if it happened to you. But I'm sure I just have an overactive imagination and we all have nothing to worry about.
My work here is dung.
It is below the maximum amount you can take out of the country, and is well within the amount I might be willing to pay for a really neat car in another state. I'm an idiot and carry the cash on me instead of a travelers check because I'm meeting the guy late at night and the banks won't be opened and I hope to bargain the guy below the exact amount but ya never know. All of that is none of the TSA's business and they need not inspect the box beyond the fact that it contains nothing dangerous.
Why bother
That is one of the worst logical fallacies I have ever heard. Your statement is akin to saying "I killed all the tigers in Pennsylvania," ignoring the fact that there were no tigers to begin with. You can't assume the DHS is working because no attacks have been made unless you have actual evidence that the DHS is stopping the attacks, not the same safeguards that were in place before 9-11.
"Bierfeldt recorded the audio of the entire incident with his iPhone."
Need to make a record of your Constitutional rights being violated?
There's an app for that.
The intrusive security behavior of the TSA has all kinds of negative economic consequences, discouraging people from flying hurts the airlines, it also makes conducting business harder, and it separates families (with secondary but significant financial consequences). I'm very reluctant to take my family anywhere, it's such a great hassle to have your lunch and medications interrogated and seized.
And the difficulties of domestic travel are nothing compared to international. "Free Trade" makes no sense without the free-flow of people. A lot of what makes America economically appealing and strong is its openness and flexibility. I feel the travel clampdowns and growing hostility to foreigners plays a greater roll in the current economic meltdown than it gets credit for.
"The ability to delude yourself may be an important survival tool" - Jane Wagner -
But in Soviet Russia ... well this is a dumb joke.
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
I don't necessarily care when I get to my destination or if I miss my flight (airlines are usually flexible), so when TSA gives me shit I love to give it back... However, if the trip is personal I try to put on the mindless drone attitude.
from 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
to 45 2F 6E 40 3C DF 10 71 4E 41 DF AA 25 7D 31 3F
No, I am very aware of the fluctuation of pricing of precious metals. But I'm also aware that cash *never* gains value, it only loses purchasing power.
That may be the case in a standard model, but with the floating rate currency exchange system cash can indeed gain value. Since the value of currency is relative to demand for a country's exports or stability, we can actually gain if another leading country were to falter. (e.g. If Japan suddenly stopped producing automobiles, or China stopped producing steel U.S. Product demand would increase and the value of the USD would increase)
Now this model is stable in the long-run only if the governments keep their grubby little hands out of it. Sadly we've had the 'weak dollar policy' nuts in office for far too long (Looking at you Bernanke) and they have caused deflated the dollar's value to try and fix the trade imbalance. That sir is why your precious metals have increased so much in value. If the FED actually had less market interaction your metals would still be worth about ~$300/troy ounce for gold instead of the horrible inflated prices of $900~1000.
Ron Paul's precious Gold Standard would never work in an International Market. If we were isolationists it might work. Demand fluctuations in the International Market would never be factored in with a Gold Standards unless the Central Banks revised the exchange rates hourly, which defeats the purpose of the Gold Standard.
The Gold Standard was good back in the 1800~1930s but it's old and out dated as hell. Welcome to the digital age.
Cash just sits there and loses value to inflation. Precious Metals (historically) don't.
Until someone invents a way to synthesize a lot of gold cheaply. Then you suddenly have yellow scrap metal.
A: Grocery stores usually limit the money orders to under a thousand dollars.
B. Not all banks cashiers checks are treated the same if the check is over $2000.00.
C. Banks close typically at 4:00 in the afternoon except in some parts of the world.
D. What difference would this make anyway as the whole thing was none of your or the TSA's business.
Why bother
I have found that the best way to "store wealth" is family and community. By investing money there, wealth accrues in ways that are not affected by inflation or commodity prices.
People who think they are protecting their wealth by buying gold, because some commercial on AM radio said that "gold has never been worth nothing" are making the fundamental mistake of thinking all historical trends always continue. If there's one thing we've learned about history, it's that world-changing events that interrupt (and often reverse) those trends are the rule, not the exception. How often did you hear over the past decade that "real estate was the safest investment you could make"?
Although I initially resisted Nassim Taleb's theory of unexpected events and their impact on the way we should plan our financial lives, reflection on my own life and observation of current events have made me come around to his way of thinking.
You are welcome on my lawn.
I don't think there is a limit for domestic travel BUT it would be wise to declare it with the airlines at least 24 hours before you boarded.
For the love of everything holy, WHY?!?!?!? If there is no legal requirement to declare the money, then for what reason would it be wise to declare cash with the airlines before boarding a flight? Is the passenger sitting next to you or a flight attendent possibly going to have a reasonable fear that you might bludgeon them with a wad of cash?
It's also wise from a practical standpoint to either give up your rights and cooperate with the agents asking questions you have a right to not answer...
From a practical standpoint, maybe so, but why should we, as law-abiding citizens of what was once one of the freest nations in the world, be forced and willing to hand over those freedoms to a thug just because he wears a uniform?!?!? If I don't have a legal requirement to answer the question, you don't have a legal right to detain me. PERIOD. The sooner we as a nation start getting outraged at abuses of power and start standing up for our RIGHTS the sooner we can live in a country we are proud of again.
Unless you are deliberately out to "test the system" you will just make your life miserable with nothing to show for it.
Maybe. But maybe Bierfeldt just seized an opportunity that presented itself. I admire his courage, and hope that, should I ever be in a similar position, I would do likewise.
MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
I have here a stone that will prevent tiger attacks. I've had the stone for 25 years, and in that time I have not been attacked once. Therefore, this stone is clearly protecting me from tiger attacks.
Heh. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rip_Van_Winkle_Caper
Interesting, because because 2001, the last hijacking of a US plain was 14 years ago (1994). That was a FedEx employee hijacking a FedEx cargo plane, so TSA/DHS wouldn't do shit to help that.
Before that, it was another 8 years (1986), and that didn't originate in the US.
So please, stop acting like plane hijackings/bombings are even nearly a threat to everyday people. You should spend your time worrying about how to protect yourself from lightning strikes, you are far more likely to be struck by lightning (on the ground, every day) than have your plane hijacked.
Lack of bad guys taking action is not a positive indication that DHS has done anything.
True, but lack of bad guys succeeding in an action may be indication that DHS has done something.
It simply means that forethought and planning by the bad guys has caused them to be unready to act.
It's been eight years. That's a lot of planning. If DHS has caused their plans to be delayed and reworked for 8+ years, then I'd say it's working.
Nothing we or DHS does will really stop a well educated and well planned action by a terrorist.
No, but it can make the planning and action much more difficult, making an attack simply not worth the risk.
Get this through your heads, giving up liberty for security does not assure security it simply assures lack of liberty!
So do you drive without a seatbelt? Do you disregard "one way" signs on a busy street? Do you bang Haitian prostitutes without protection? All of these acts are illegal. Do they guarantee that you will not die in a car wreck, or some deadly STD? Of course not. Then why would you follow these rules. Do these rules "simply assure lack of liberty?" Of course not. So let me correct you faulty statement:
Get this through your heads, giving up liberty for security does not assure security it simply offers more security in exchange for a touch of liberty because dead people have no liberty at all!
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
I have found that the best way to "store wealth" is family and community
That didn't work out so well for the Katrina victims in New Orleans.
"But this one goes to 11!"
If the lawyers do their jobs and weed out people who can think it will be a short day for you.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
E: None of the above matter, as the government has no say-so in whether or not we can carry large amounts of cash with us. (At least as far as I know... )Nor should they, it's none of their business.
Here's another way of looking at it - maybe it'll work better in the context of slashdot: Sir that laptop looks very expensive. Where did you get it? Do you have a receipt? If you don't answer me, maybe you want to answer the DEA. Or police. Or both.
Same thing, just a different asset.
You can't assume the DHS is working because no attacks have been made unless you have actual evidence that the DHS is stopping the attacks,
True, but you never prove a negative. Even if you caught a bunch of (Insert your terrorist racial stereotype here)'s carrying bombs onto a plane, you still have no proof that they intended to bring down a plane. They could have been simply traveling to a "rock-blasting" convention in NY.
By giving the TSA agents a hard time, all this guy did was hold up other travelers who were trying to get to their destination and make life harder for himself. If the ACLU has their way, then security will removed completely making not only air travel unsafe, but simply being in an area where tumbling plane fragments may pass through fatal.
Now, the flipside of this, and where it relates to this case directly... a box of cash can not bring down a plane and should therefor be none of TSA's business. Their job is the safety of the travelers. Investigating people carrying large sums of cash trough security have nothing to do with airline safety.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
Let's say you start buying gold bullion...storing it in safe deposit boxes.
When you want to cash out some of it....where do you take it to sell it to get the 'market price'? I doubt seriously it would be one of those people on tv that have you mail your gold jewelry in for cash.
I know you can buy gold bullion from the US mint...but, who do you sell it to when you're ready?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
So, is carrying cash, even LARGE amounts of it against the law now?
If so, what is the threshold for carrying cash around within the United States? I know you have to declare when crossing the border, but, travel within the states, I didn't realize it was illegal to carry large sums of cash. What if you are going to Vegas, and want to deal only in cash? That's illegal now?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
The last flight hijacked that originated in the US before 9/11 was in 1976. What does that say about how they were doing their before 9/11? As we found out, it says absolutely nothing.
If other travelers were inconvenienced, they only have the TSA's unreasonable seizure and detention to blame, not the detainee.
Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
If shit really happens, he might have to use a fair bit of gold to buy bread from a baker. The baker has very little use for gold except maybe for jewelry. So how likely is he to accept 0.1 grams of gold for a loaf of bread - it won't even make an earring - but that's USD3 at current prices (USD30 per gram).
So how much gold will really be worth then?
Eggs might be far more valuable to the baker.
Heck, people might continue to use some form of paper currency because it's easier than using gold for transactions.
woosh!
I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
With regard to how wise it was, he did make it to airport security with the cash, so it can't be that bad a decisions.
I'm presuming that the TSA is doing their job well enough that people aren't getting mugged inside security or on planes, but who the hell knows?
That really just leaves him getting off the plane with it and into some vehicle. At which point he's as safe as if he'd driven to the bank before flying. (Assuming the two locations have relatively the same amount of crime.)
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Only if you have a history of writing/depositing hot checks. The 'Check 21' initiative a few years ago did away with most of the delay of posting paper checks. The only delay now is how long to takes a merchant to physically get the checks to the bank. And for large merchants, even that delay is removed with EFTs (the checks are just sent through the back after the fact for your records).
I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
We NEVER EVER did that kind of stuff.
When the screeners (I was in testing) found something it became a L.E.O. issue and they called them over to handle it. I worked at ANC and people forget all the time to take their gun out of their pocket or carry on. It wouldn't even make the local news (You really need to live here to understand that for so many reasons, so I am not going into details) but even those really stupid people did not always get arrested. We just did a local and NCIC check on them and if they were clear they lost their weapon (or it was returned outside the secure area) and everyone went on their way. Go a head ask my why I quite (which is not easy to do) - Sorry I signed 3 different documents saying I wouldn't tell. BUT they have made some improvements "agency" in actual security. (jerks not with standing).
Side note: I love going thought the check points and saying "Hey I used to work for the TSA" Then the "Why did you leave?" questions from a Screener. Followed by my "Do you really want me to say in front of all these passengers?" Always good for a laugh.
6.8SPC TR of 550, l xwind at 6, drift rt at 26" drops 77". AT has 503 ft-lbs at 1403 fps. FT 0.86
You can buy and sell gold online, and I think some jewelry stores will buy it (and unless the people you see on TV, they tell you what they'll pay BEFORE you give it to them).
Al-Qaida has attacked in the continental US twice: once in 1993 and once in 2001. After 2001, we undertook a number of activities not involving DHS with the intent of crippling the organization (such as it is). Since it's 2009, we've had about the same freedom from al-Qaida attack here that we did in 2001.
I've seen no good evidence that DHS or the TSA is doing any good.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
No.
We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
It doesn't have to be metal, but SOME kind of standard is necessary. Have you seen a graph of real inflation since 1987, when the international banks removed the last vestige of gold standard from the U.S. dollar? (Nixon had done it officially, but internationally there was still a standard until then.)
It has skyrocketed. Without a standard, there is "freedom" to print money pretty much at will. Put that together with Government deception about what the real inflation rate is, and you have a disaster in the making... part of which we saw starting last year, and which is continuing now. (I am not trying to blame it all on inflation! There were many causes.)
In any case, whata it boils down to is that while metal prices might fluctuate, a standard is still necessary. Even metals are a better standard than none at all.
Sorry, but the gold standard DID work in a viable international banking market, until it was dumped in 1987. You are simply wrong, and history proves it.
If other travelers were inconvenienced, they only have the TSA's unreasonable seizure and detention to blame, not the detainee.
I think the blame can go both ways. Sure, TSA has no business knowing how he makes his money or why he's traveling with it, as I stated above. However, he could have simply answered the question and gone about his business. What would the harm be in that? Would he have been somehow injured by speaking? Would it have led to him being barred from speaking out against the government? Would answering the questions forbid him from owning a gun or practicing his religion of choice? No to all of these. If his goal was to prove a point, then he can prove it his own damn time, not at the expense of those trying to get the kids to Grandma's house!
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
Notgeld happens.
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
The government has considered large amounts of cash "suspicious" for a long time now... ever since it started the so-called "war on drugs", if not before.
Of course, it was only partly about drugs, if at all. It was more about controlling people. For example, are you aware that any transaction you make with your bank for over $1,000 is automatically reported to the government? And it has been that way for many years.
Around 1992, a man in an airport was found to be carrying a "suspicious" amount of cash (about 40,000 to 50,000 dollars). He was Hispanic-looking and wearing jeans. This was considered exceedingly suspicious. He was taken from the line to board the plane, and questioned by the DEA for hours. The DEA confiscated his money, although he was never charged with a crime.
Turns out the guy owned a nursery, and he was getting on the plane to go to the annual auction where he bought most of his plants. He preferred to deal in cash.
Last I heard he had never gotten his money back, even though the government has never tried to prosecute him for anything.
How often did you hear over the past decade that "real estate was the safest investment you could make"?
Real estate is the best investment for the long term. The problem with the housing boom and bust was that credit was easy to get and people paid too high a price in the belief prices would always rise. Another problem is what people bought. If instead of buying a single family home they had bought a multiplex house, one with more than one apartment, they could have lived in one while renting out the others. Let renters pay part if not all of the mortgage.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
at the end that says "You're free to go".
That's a man that knows the law. I admire his statement and his tone of voice. He listened, asked 1 question, and answered.
I respect that.
The jackasses earlier in the audio recording, not so much. They're too shit-full of themselves... and they know they are breaking the law and thus avoid stating so.
This audio recording is priceless- because without it we'd have no proof. It's a pity the audio was released now- they should have waited until the court case to display it AFTER the affidavits were taken.
But if they had "stored wealth" in their community by actually improving the infrastructure prior to the hurricane then there wouldn't have been a problem, now would there?
the international banks removed the last vestige of gold standard from the U.S. dollar? (Nixon had done it officially
Before Nixon did, FDR took the US off the gold standard. FDR outlawed private ownership of gold. What Nixon did was end the Bretton Woods system whereby national governments and international organizations could trade gold for dollars.
Without a standard, there is "freedom" to print money pretty much at will.
Fiat money.
In any case, whata it boils down to is that while metal prices might fluctuate, a standard is still necessary. Even metals are a better standard than none at all.
Instead of a standard based on gold or another commodity the standard could be a mix of commodities, such as a blend of precious metals and gems as well as food crops.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
So now it is my responsibility to improve infrastructure? Then what the hell are all my tax dollars used for?
Never mind the fact the the Army Corp of engineers (the supposed experts) claimed that the levees would hold, and the people of New Orleans didn't have any reason not to believe them.
So are you actually saying that the disaster in New Orleans was the fault of the people who live there, and not the massive failure in every aspect by the government?
"But this one goes to 11!"
And he had to use real money, $4300 worth, for the prop?
No, the money wasn't a prop, it was "from the sale of tickets, t-shirts, stickers and campaign material."
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
ACLU considered themselves idealogically to be a "liberal" organization, and no self-respecting "liberal" was a promoter of gun rights.
If you don't support the right to bare arms you aren't really a liberal, true liberals believe in liberty and small government.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Wake me when the National Rifle Association stops defending handgun ownership. (Handguns are not rifles.)
It's nit-picky to be sure, but all modern handguns that I'm aware of are rifles (rifled barrel) as opposed to smooth-bores (no rifling). That said, the usage of "rifle" in common speech has come to mean "long barreled firearm intended to be fired from the shoulder".
The stuff the NRA does that bothers me are things such as fighting trigger locks
Excuse me mr robber while I unlock my gun and load it." Bang you're dead.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
just wish the ACLU would say "Yes, it's an individual right, yes it's important, but the NRA does a way better job so we'll leave it to them". They don't have to fight that fight, but acknowledging that it should be done would be good.
The ACLU does not consider the right to bare arms to be an individual right, only a collective one.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
there are some things here that are just stupid. I wear a seat belt because it's a good idea, there is no need for a law to make me. I'm not going to bother with the other one that IS stupid.
It took more than 5 years for the last one to be carried out so I think that 8 years is not unreasonable depending on the action contemplated.
Get this through your heads, giving up liberty for security does not assure security.
You can take the rest of your version of that statement and shove it straight where the sun don't shine, I'll keep the liberty thank you!
Why bother
This is a guess:
The 2nd amendment is one of the few 'rights' that has many large industries lobbying for its continued existence.
The ACLU most likely figures that the 2nd amendment is well taken care of, and does not need their help.
If you listen to the audio of the incident, you may notice something funny. That is how FAST he was let go once they found out it was political contributions.
What would the harm be in that? Would he have been somehow injured by speaking?
YES!
Remember, the TSA (and police in general) are NOT on your side. They have no right to any information from you beyond what's legally required. If he just told them what they wanted to hear, he'd be giving up his freedoms under the fourth amendment. THAT is the harm in this situation. Additionally, once you give up your freedoms, you usually have to fight pretty hard to get them back.
And how many times BEFORE 911 did terrorist fly planes into the twin towers? So by your logic what was in effect before 911 worked every day for 30 years (1971-2001) where DHS has only worked for 8 years. I say strike down DHS. It has a inferior track record.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-texas-profiling_wittmar10,0,6051682.story
If you're a zombie and you know it, bite your friend!
The CBS show "60 Minutes" covered that guy's story.
Basically what happened was that his money got arrested and the only way to get it back was to post an equal amount as bail. Seriously, that's how they explained it, 'cause that's what the government told them.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
The ongoing assault on those communities from within and without had more to do with it than the storm.
You are welcome on my lawn.
I'm not talking about "storing wealth" in the infrastructure, I'm talking about investing wealth in the people that I'm close to, physically and emotionally.
Yes, I've had situations where I've invested in someone and gotten screwed, but overall, putting my "wealth" (such as it is) in family, friends and community has been better for me than banks, mutual funds or the stock market.
You are welcome on my lawn.
What about government "by, of and for the People" don't you understand?
I get a kick out of Americans who are always complaining about "the government". I guess they don't read (or believe in) our Constitution.
You are welcome on my lawn.
It is no different how you are being a big dick by not letting me look through all of your possessions, with the poor excuses of "They aren't yours" and "These things are mine" and "You have no right to touch and keep my property"
A person standing up for their rights is not a dick, however making demands you have to right to make is being one.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
If you have any major organizations in mind that do zealously defend all civil liberties, feel free to mention them. I'm only aware of different sorts of piecemeal organizations. I pick and choose the ones that seem to best cover the range of civil liberties I care most about. In my case, the ACLU and EFF seem to most frequently defend the rights I'm most interested in (especially free speech).
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
The ACLU is primarily, as you point out, an organization focused on the 1st, 4th, and 5th amendments. This is not a secret to anyone. You may wish they were different, but they are what they are. Are you interested in the liberties guaranteed by those amendments? If so, I don't see a reason not to support the ACLU; it doesn't preclude you from additionally supporting other organizations focused on other civil liberties.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Sigh. Did you not get the ironic humor of my post? Or did you just not read my sig? I'm guessing both.
Um what? The international market has been fixed to the US dollar since the end of WWII. In theory that gave us a gold standard, since the US had a hypothetical gold standard of 35$/ounce, but in practice that didn't exist by virtue of gold bullion being illegal in the US, and the us not actually having enough gold to back it up.
And even if you do count that, the US went off the gold standard in 1971, not 1987.
Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite (TM)
As far as airports are concerned, unless government owns the airport it should not be screening people. Now I have no problem if an airliner wants to screen people boarding their planes but not the government.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
What would the harm be in that? Would he have been somehow injured by speaking?
YES!
Remember, the TSA (and police in general) are NOT on your side. They have no right to any information from you beyond what's legally required. If he just told them what they wanted to hear, he'd be giving up his freedoms under the fourth amendment. THAT is the harm in this situation. Additionally, once you give up your freedoms, you usually have to fight pretty hard to get them back.
Wow! And you were doing so well up until that point. Sorry, but the fourth amendment does not apply when you purchase an aircraft ticket, leave your home, go to an airport and try to board a plane. The fourth applies to "unreasonable" search and seizure. Sorry, but searching someone who's about to board a plane that is full of fuel and people is not unreasonable, especially considering that they are a target. That's not just my opinion, but the opinion of the majority of the people and the law.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Remember, the keyword here is "unreasonable". Is it reasonable to TSA to search you and your bags before you board a plane? You bet your ass it is!
Remember, you don't have to fly commercial. You are free to charter your own plane and take off from a private airfield. No searches, no ID check... nothing. You just show up, board the plane and take off. And if you go to an airport and you don't feel like you should be searched, you are free to turn around and walk out the airport doors. You might not even be charged for parking. No one is forcing you to get searched as no one is forcing you to fly.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
The ACLU has taken the position that owning the means to self defense is a "collective right"; the same position as every state that institutes draconian gun laws. They also use the same glib and anachronistic interpretation of what "well regulated" means that is common to all groups opposed to citizens owning the means to self defense.
I am not arguing that they should have to protect every civil liberty, they can do what they want. I am saying that they have actively taken an anti-gun legal stance. They are not neutral. They have lent their public voice to the anti self defense side.
Who knows? Maybe they did it in order to retain a certain membership level since that is how they get money. In our current polarized political environment it is hard to step outside of one of the established camps without losing membership.
It does not matter. In 10 years, the state will probably confiscate all guns at the same time that 80% of former anti-gunners have changed their mind. Welcome to the American police state.
Well, it's been almost eight years since a plane has been hijacked.
And how many hijacks were carried out before DHS? Sure 5 planes were hijacked in one day but when was the last one before that? Searching, the last hijacking I found that happened before 911 in the US was FedEx Flight 705 on 7 April 1994, 7 years before 911.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
I-bonds are only a hedge against inflation to which the government will admit. Over the last 40 years, official measures of inflation have been massaged into disingenuous articulations that even a child could perceive.
Someone considering the use of "forever postage" as a viable store of wealth must not have much wealth to protect. Furthermore, I do not believe that there is anything that would prevent the post office from going out of business, slowing their delivery times, or for that matter decreeing that it takes more than one "forever stamp" per first class letter.
"inflation protected securities" and "forever postage" are both nice sounding names, but using these names to linguistically solve your problems is only going to lead you into trouble. Look deeper into how things work before trusting them.
thats why i store all my wealth on the moon... nobody has ever been there, and AFAIK nobody ever will.
i guess withdraws will be hard.
i wage a holy war against the apostrophe.
The last flight hijacked that originated in the US before 9/11 was in 1976.
In 1994 an employee of FedEx tried to hijack a FedEx plane, FedEx Flight 705.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
I guess they don't read (or believe in) our Constitution.
it comes from years of those who claim to represent "we the people" not reading (or believing in) the Constitution. the Constitution just like any other document is just pretty words on a page, reality is a lot dirtier.
i wage a holy war against the apostrophe.
all this guy did was hold up other travelers who were trying to get to their destination and make life harder for himself.
No, by doing what he did he's stood up for everybody's rights. You may be willing to give up liberty so you can feel safe, even though you never will be, but many of us prefer to live as freemen.
If the ACLU has their way, then security will removed completely
Good!!!
making not only air travel unsafe
Proof it!!!
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Well, I don't like them because they keep forgetting about the Second Amendment.
The NRA and others already fight for those issues.
I didn't know before but ACLU opposes the individual right to bear arms. ACLU's position is that the right to bare arms is a collective right. I used to support them, but I longer can. It'd be fine if they held no position but in opposing an individual right, when all the other rights in the Bill of Rights are individual rights, I will no longer support them.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Ron Paul's precious Gold Standard would never work in an International Market.
The Gold Standard was good back in the 1800~1930s but it's old and out dated as hell. Welcome to the digital age.
What a bunch of nonsense. If gold is not considered a monetary metal, then why is it traded at forex prop desks at primary brokerages worldwide instead of at the commodities desk? If gold is so stupid, why did the Bank of China just announce in April that it doubled it's gold reserves to over 1000 tons of gold? On top of that, China just laughed your hero Tim Geithner out of the country for stating that the US had a strong dollar.
I suppose the Chinese Communist Party is a big Ron Paul supporter? Think about it. They must know something you don't.
We would still have a gold standard, except for the fact that gold standards are not compatible with debt based monetary creation and fractional reserve banking. It took only 17 years from the creation of the Fed to when the government was forced to move off a domestic gold standard. It took only 40 more years before we had to move off an international gold standard. Finally, 40 years after THAT, we are approaching the final chapter to this 100 year inflation.
Your "modern system" is just an institutionalized debauchment of the money supply by everyone in power. The government deficit spends, the banks make bad loans for the interest, the financial market makes commissions of trades, the insurance companies take premiums and invest the proceeds, the real estate industry makes CDO's. The politicians make the taxpayers backstop these crooks every time they go too far. These people all work hard at what they do, but what they make is only a bigger supply of money. It works great until it breaks. It only took 100 years to start breaking in the biggest and best economy the world ever saw to date.
As long as you don't have the kind of family/friends/neighbors who take everything you give them without feeling any sort of reciprocity (and who might even think you're a fool for giving with no strings).
You can sell the gold back to the dealer you got it from. Gold dealers are not like Walmart. They are happy to buy back merchandise so they can sell to someone else. They make money on the spread.
By the way, you can't buy bullion gold from the mint anymore, they only sell to dealers now. You can still buy overpriced proofs if you want to waste money.
Another way to get the market price is trade the gold or silver coin for something of comparable value, like a box of commercial ammo for a silver coin or a new scoped deer rifle or a no frills AR-15 with a few magazines for the gold coin. A used top of the line Lenovo would go for about 1 or 2 gold coins depending on year and condition.
Be careful. You are, at that point, using gold and silver AS money instead of your credit card, so you need to remember to pay any taxes owed. Luckily the face value on the coins is quite low. ;)
cash gets an IMMEDIATE credit to your account whereas a check, regardless of who issues it, means at least a ten day hold on the funds.
Only if you have a history of writing/depositing hot checks.
It may work that way where you bank, but it's not that way everywhere. I am on disability however my sister gets the money not me. She has the money electronically deposited in an account she opened up as my representative in the same bank I have my own account. She then writes me a check from that account. Now if I deposit the check into my account at the bank before, I think it's 1 pm, I have to way at least one day before the money is available. If it's after that I have to wait at least 2 days. I once had to wait a week, even though the check was from the same bank as my account is in. Because of this I started cashing the check after which I'll deposit the cash in my account. If I do that the money is available right away.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
coke was a nickel
...
I presume that means that cokes were 6 oz.
I seem to recall paying a dime for a 16 oz long neck bottle of Coke, with a deposit.
a gallon of gas was a quarter
Yeap, that's what I paid for gas when I mowed lawns.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Or take another example: airport security. Assume that all the new airport security measures increase the waiting time at airports by -- and I'm making this up -- 30 minutes per passenger. There were 760 million passenger boardings in the United States in 2007. This means that the extra waiting time at airports has cost us a collective 43,000 years of extra waiting time. Assume a 70-year life expectancy, and the increased waiting time has "killed" 620 people per year -- 930 if you calculate the numbers based on 16 hours of awake time per day. So the question is: If we did away with increased airport security, would the result be more people dead from terrorism or fewer?
The only lots I ever met against bare arms were fundamentalist Muslims and OSHA.
------ The only greater hazard to your liberty than n politicians is n+1 politicians.
Sorry, but the gold standard DID work in a viable international banking market, until it was dumped in 1987. You are simply wrong, and history proves it.
Yes we did have a Gold Standard, it was created during the meetings at Bretton Woods, and we dumped it because it didn't work for beans in the real world. The USD was horribly over-valued during this era. The pegging a value to a currency has never worked for international policy in the long-run, but only as a short-run fix.
If it was just the US and one other country, it may have actually held up. But when you factor in the everybody else into the system, Gold falls apart. It's as simple as that.
Who said Geithner was a hero? I would've laughed him out of the US for saying the dollar was 'strong.' The dollar hasn't been strong since Clinton, thanks to good ol' "W" ramping up our debt and destroying faith in the US government's ability to repay our debt.
As for the Chinese, they had a large hand in destroying the USD's position. They had an artificial peg against the USD for YEARS that undervalued the USD-Yuan exchange rate by ~40%. So for every USD they got, they earned 40% more yuan then they should have, and this excess did a number on our trade balance (which devalued the USD as well) and fueled the growth of the Chinese economy for the past 15 years.
As for the Gold Standard, see we why we dropped Bretton Woods. I rest my case.
p.s. I do not support the government bailing these fools out all the mistakes they have made. I support regulation with actual enforcement. We never should have propped up failing companies because that is not capitalism.
Yes, I have already been corrected. I do not know what I was thinking. What I meant was, the "gold standard" from FDR up to Nixon in 1971 was an "indirect" one, by virtue of the international banks, that still fixed the dollar against gold. The U.S. did not do that officially anymore, but because of the international banks we were on a kind of indirect gold standard for a long time.
Actually, though, it did work in some ways, which you can see by simply looking at graphs of real inflation from 1850, say, through 1007. Immediately after 1971, the rate of debt and inflation both began to skyrocket, and haven't stopped.
So, while the "indirect" gold standard might not have done the direct good that it did while it was in place, it still kept debt and inflation in check while it existed. And this is something you can prove for yourself. Just go look at the economic figures. (NOT the ones from the Government, those have not been trustworthy for decades if not longer.)
Yeah, thanks for the confirmation. I remember reading about it at the time but it's a bit difficult to discuss such old issues, because where the heck would I be able to look it up if I needed to confirm something?
I would like to find a public statement of what the TSA can and cannot do. There must be a definition of where the handover takes place between capable officers and these, well, misguided wannabees. I understand they have a function somewhere (apparently), it's just hard to pin down IMHO.
What I hear is someone who has been given special powers having no clue about what his powers are and what are the rights of the people they detain. This is an incredibly dangerous situation, and especially the question for someone's rights ("am I required by law to answer the question") is simply not answered in an acceptable fashion.
It's interesting that his question is turned into a refusal to answer - that is not what he does. I also like the appearance of that eternal dead duck: "if you have nothing to hide"..
I am glad this was taped - these guys need some serious correction.
Insert
Correlation is not causation. Vietnam war until '75, Yom Kippur War and the following '73 oil crisis, '72 Watergate, '72 Munich olympics attack... might have something to do with the effects you mention
From what you say it seems like you are not aware of the basic mechanism of money creation and think, like most do, that only governments make money. You need to understand that debt and money are fungible, and that all money in our system is created through debt. You need to understand that most money is created by private banks (not the central bank) through the practice of fractional reserve lending, leveraged investments, and other business practices that act to inflate the money supply without corresponding GDP growth. Obviously, banks like to lend as much money as possible at high interest rates, what may not be so clear is why a government would give banks this power? The governments of the world allow banks to have this power because it enables deficit spending by governments, whether for entitlements or for war, without the political fallout of raising taxes or direct inflation.
You will never see the regulation you seek for this reason. Neither big business nor the government is interested in reigning in their excesses. If they were, there would never be a Central Bank in the first place. Central Banks are there to make sure that when bankers get so greedy that they break a market, the government will bail them out. In return, the government gets to secretly tax people through inflation and deficit spend without political fallout.
Over the last 2 decades, at the behest of financial interests, our politicians quietly removed the last vestiges of protections instituted after the 1929 Crash. Over the same period, we have seen the most largest and most rapid increase in money supply in US history. Here are some of the most important deregulations. Please note that these measures pass with overwhelming support from both sides and during presidential terms from both parties.
Fractional Reserve requirements had been steadily lowered for years, until by 1995, there were was no reserve requirement on most money.
After 2 decades of intense lobbying by banks, in 1999, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley act revoked parts of the Glass-Steagal act, allowing investment banks to act as commercial banks thereby enabling the CDO/MBS disaster that happened only 8 years later.
In 2004 the regulations on brokerages limiting them to "only" 12x were lifted to up to 50x! For comparison, individuals are only allowed 4x leverage.
I am not sure about why you keep bringing up floating exchange rates, artificial pegs, trade deficits, Bretton Woods, etc. You are missing the forest for the trees. China did not do anything to us. We did it to ourselves by allowing our GDP to be offshored around the world so a bunch of rich dudes could get richer at the expense of everyone else. The US has spent the last 20 years falling in love with pure finance at the expense of all real-GDP-increasing activities. Everyone thought their tech stocks and houses were "appreciating" and making them rich, when it was only an instance of compartmentalized inflation that our government is now actively bleeding into the real economy to the tune of doubling the M0 Monetary Base in a month. Doubled. in. one. month.
If governments never printed a cent, inflation would still be caused by allowing banks to lend at fractional reserve. Without central banks, they can only go about 10-20 years before they get too greedy and blow up. With central banks, stupid and greedy banks are not allowed to fail on a large scale. The Fed bails them out, making temporary inflation permanent. Of course, governments do spend, so the problem is worse. Due to the mechanism used, more money than the last time is always be needed to fix the next problem. It is essentially a ponzi scheme that has taken nearly 100 years to get to the point where we are hitting the knee of the curve. This is the first breath of hyperinflation. The worst is still a few years away, but not many.
The DHS could point to what they see as plots that they indeed foiled. Instead they've made every action a state secret, because if it somehow got out that a plot had been foiled, it might help the bad guys ... who somehow missed the memo on their own organization being taken down.
"Because Science" is one step from "Because old book". Try "Because of my experiment testing my falsifiable assertion".
I know what you mean. The other day something remended me of another story on 60 minutes years ago about something called the "walking man" case which dealt with whether the cops could stop you and demand ID "just because". My Google-fu wasn't good enough to get past all the portable tape player links, but your reply goaded me into making an extra effort to force Google to my will and I came up with the name of the Supreme Court case from 1983, "Kolender v. Lawson". Thanks.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
The constitution has we the people. The Gettysburg address has the by for and of the people bit.
Xavier Rabourdin for president 2012
Gee, I don't think I've ever been remended before. :-(
Remend me to use "Preview" next time.
I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.
First, the saying is: "correlation does not imply causation", and believe me, I am very familiar with it. If you actually looked at the graphs, you would have absolutely no doubt about causation. So please, don't try to pull that here.
Haha, thanks for that one, too. I was trying to convince someone here recently that at least in this state, you are not required to produce ID just because some cop walking by decided to ask.
In short it is called the "CSI Effect"
I've also consistently noticed that defense lawyers very often come off as slimeballs trying to get an obvious bad guy off the hook
I tend to notice that more than the searches and rough interrogations, sometimes they do make a point of chasing down a warrant, and I guess the warrant stuff is sometimes implied.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Of course, it was only partly about drugs, if at all. It was more about controlling people. For example, are you aware that any transaction you make with your bank for over $1,000 is automatically reported to the government? And it has been that way for many yearss
Not only ignorant of the law but accounting too. Before you say you left off a zero, it is not any transaction.
Slashdot - The great and glorious cluster fuck of Internet wisdom.
Notgeld happens.
FTFY (broken link)
I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
Doh! Thanks.
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
No problem.
I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.