Is the Kindle DX Worth the Money?

An anonymous reader writes "Now that some little time has passed, and the hype has died down a bit, I'm wondering if anyone has taken the $500 plunge and gotten a Kindle DX. From the academic-paper-reading-geek perspective, is it worth the money? How well does it work with PDFs, and is it easy to get them on and off? I haven't been able to find any good reviews on the interweb that address its usability as I would like to use it."

Comments

Skip until cheaper/better

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really - the screen is only a bit bigger than the regular Kindle, doesn't handle PDF's very well (i.e. keeps all of the white space around the edge of docs) and offers no ability to annotate. I am waiting for ePaper products to get considerably cheaper and get something with specs similar to the iRex Digital Reader 1000S. I also find that for just fiction reading, I tend to do better with a smaller, narrower screen rather than a large screen with small font.

Re:Skip until cheaper/better

[Anonymous Coward]

I assure you, when Pixel Qi is ready with a product that can be manufactured in sufficient quantities that Amazon will be shipping devices with it installed. But it is no where near ready. I work directly in this industry and the wait is going to be at least 2 years for them to work out all the issues with it and for someone to make it into a product (likely Amazon because they are working closely with them).

What eReader do you want to use while you wait 2 years for the new displays?

ps- the Kindle 2 is a better deal over the DX. the DX's display is larger, but takes longer to turn pages and is quiet expensive and the unit is a bit awkward to hold because of the size and weight. The display is gorgeous though.

Re:Skip until cheaper/better

[Anonymous Coward]

IWhat eReader do you want to use while you wait 2 years for the new displays?

How about the iNone? Until they figure out a way to KEEP the library of books that I apparently only "license" (for quite a pretty penny). For example, if I buy the Kindle now and "buy" some books - then in two years say Sony (OK, maybe not Sony, but someone) makes a better one and I want to upgrade - how do I transfer my books? Oh, that's right - they aren't "mine"; it's more like the VHS to DVD thing where you either stay on the old stuff (carry the Kindle as it slowly wears out AND your new reader) or buy everything again.

I guess this is a non-issue for the folks who read something once and then are done with it (for example those that read a physical book then take it to the used bookstore). However, I read things over and over and I don't want one of these devices until I can be assured of having my "purchased" material through vendor changes, vendor going out of business, format shits, etc.

Re:Skip until cheaper/better

[zeromorph]

Yes, for academic papers, the iRex Digital Reader 1000S seems to be the best, but 699 EUR is quite a bit of money, and I'm not sure the size of the screen is good enough for two column texts, as you find it in many scientific journals.

I never had the chance to check a 1000S myself, but a friend of mine has a iRex iLiad and it's really a nice piece of technology but clearly no good, when it comes to pdfs.

Re:Skip until cheaper/better

[Ouchie]

If Amazon was smart they would drop the kindle in the near future and open their whisper net to other hardware developers like Sony.

They have spent the time to develop content and an effective distribution network now they should decide if they want to compete with other better known hardware manufacturers or become a service provider and let other developers duke it out on the hardware.

I think the key to Amazon's prosperity so far has been built on access to content. The next developer to emerge with a content delivery system will pose a serious threat. And if that provider is a major name like Google or Sony they are going have a serious fight.

Google already has a massive library of public content works all imaged and ready to be deployed at this moment. If they develop a wireless delivery system and market it to ebook manufacturers Kindle will likely become a obsolete format.

Re:Skip until cheaper/better

[JohnBailey]

How about the iNone? Until they figure out a way to KEEP the library of books that I apparently only "license" (for quite a pretty penny). For example, if I buy the Kindle now and "buy" some books - then in two years say Sony (OK, maybe not Sony, but someone) makes a better one and I want to upgrade - how do I transfer my books? Oh, that's right - they aren't "mine"; it's more like the VHS to DVD thing where you either stay on the old stuff (carry the Kindle as it slowly wears out AND your new reader) or buy everything again.

Simple.. Only use DRM free books. Then you can format shift to your heart's content. And there is definitely no shortage of books out there. Check out Mobileread.org for links to e-book stockists, public domain and creative commons stuff, as well as the authors who sometimes drop in and give free first parts to their series, or advertise the DRM free stuff they do.

Simple truth is that if you hand money over for DRM infected media, you do not own it. You rent it until such time as the owner decides you have had it long enough.

Eventually the two sides of the e-book reader concept will meet in the middle, and you will be able to buy DRM free freshly released books by major authors. But for now, we are at the "plays for sure and napster trial" stage.

I guess this is a non-issue for the folks who read something once and then are done with it (for example those that read a physical book then take it to the used bookstore). However, I read things over and over and I don't want one of these devices until I can be assured of having my "purchased" material through vendor changes, vendor going out of business, format shits, etc.

Agreed. I'm the same. I have 30 year old books that I got in my teens that I still read again. And just because it is electronic does not mean that I intend to have to buy the same thing twice.

All the current readers have at least one DRM free format, and once you have a DRM free file, you have a universal file.

Re:Skip until cheaper/better

[Anonymous Coward]

The screen is "only a bit bigger?"

The Entire Kindle2 fits within the screen of the DX. It's about 2.5 times larger.

See new screens from OLPC's Mary Lou

[dowdle]

Have you seen the videos on oplc.tv of the new screen technology coming? Much cheaper and better... no special materials or new manufacturing facilities needed.

Re:See new screens from OLPC's Mary Lou

[TheSHAD0W]

I think you mean olpc.tv.

I don't think that device is coming any time soon, unfortunately.

Re:See new screens from OLPC's Mary Lou

[ImRoadKill2]

This laptop looks amazing, but the downside is simple I can toss a kindle in a small bag and not have problems, I can lay on the bed with my head on the pillow looking up and read a kindle. I can walk into a both room and still have the kindle with me. The point of the kindle is, it is small you can get comfortable like you can with a book. Where you can't with a laptop

Re:See new screens from OLPC's Mary Lou

[dowdle]

Yep, I definitely meant olpc... darn fingers. You don't think they are coming anytime soon? I don't have any inside information but I'm guessing within a year or less. Why? Because as Mary Lou points out, unlike many new technologies, her design doesn't use any new materials nor require any new manufacturing process... as they use existing materials and can be made in existing plants. They are going to be inexpensive too... and available on netbooks initially I would guess. What more could you want?

Re:See new screens from OLPC's Mary Lou

[marciot]

Actually, everything from those videos indicate that this is a drop in replacement for existing LCD displays and that it can be easily manufactured. Like was mentioned in the video, this technology was specifically designed for fast implementation without rocking the boat. Big difference from eInk, which requires different manufacturing technology. There is nothing keeping PixelQi technology from totally taking over the LCD market in a very disruptive fashion. This will probably happen very fast, much faster then the agonizingly slow switch from CRTs to LCDs which took place in the last decade.

I think the prospect for e-Ink technology looks very bad right now. Their only chance to survive against Pixel Qi is if they can come up with a day-light readable color e-Ink display really fast, because that's the Achilles heel for Mary Lou's display.

Re:See new screens from OLPC's Mary Lou

[marciot]

The display technology has nothing to do with the form factor. My bet is that the Kindle DX 2, or whatever they call it, will have a PixelQi display and will cost much less than current model.

Re:Dumbfuck Mods

[Wicked Zen]

Is it just me, or does nonsensical bullshit get modded up, while the truth gets modded down.

Slashdot is a circlejerk of bullshit, with retarded moderators modding up garbage, and modding down reality.

Is it just me, or are random nonsensical first-posts getting more randomly nonsensical?

Maybe

[Anonymous Coward]

I got a kindle DX as a gift, and i absolutely love it. PDFs can be transferred to/from it extremely easy, just plug it in via usb and drag and drop. My biggest gripe about the PDF support is that you have no control over the font size, as you do with the books you purchase through Amazon, nor can you use the search function or the inline dictionary. But PDFs are still easy to read on the device, and I much prefer it to reading them on my computer screen.

I am a poor college student though, so if it weren't a gift I probably would have bought a netbook and saved myself some money.

Re:Maybe

[rbanffy]

"nor can you use the search function"

That's really bad if you want to keep a library in your backpack. Indexing and search should be the first thing to be implemented after rendering.

Re:Maybe

[Repossessed]

The DX can't read PDF... I'm not sure what the parent is talking about. You have to convert the files to .mobi first. There are some online tools that are supposed to work pretty well for that, the one I know of that runs on your system (calibre) has issues with adding images to .mobi files.

As far as the OPs question goes, I think it depends on how much you want the free net connection. If thats necessary for you, the DX is the better reader, if you don't need that though, go with a different cheaper reader, such as the Sony PRS series (which has a the font size control for pdfs that the parent was complaining about lacking) more supported file formats, and removable storage if you need to have a lot of books with you at once.

I'd probably recommend the PRS-700 for academic purposes since it has notation tools to mark your academic papers, and the PRS zoom tool is suitable for reading things that have columns in the format, even for scans or cups-pdf output (remember to zoom out when looking at charts though).

There might be a better reader still for your purposes, I only really know the kindle and PRS models.

Re:Maybe

[Nyeerrmm]

Huh? Amazon clearly states that the DX has native PDF support. You're confusing it with the standard, smaller Kindle 2. The ability to read letter/A4 sized PDFs is the primary reason for the existence of the DX (along with newspapers), since the original form factor is really more convenient for straight-text, reflowable format fiction, being smaller.

The PRS-505 has the same sized screen as the standard Kindle, which suggests to me (I haven't used one) that it requires a lot of scrolling to display a non-reformatted PDF, and for that reason I'd expect a DX is much more comfortable to use. This is the reason that the original Kindle didn't include it: they decided they'd rather not implement it all rather than do it in a frustrating manner (I personally think the Sony choice was better, but the logic of both approaches is sound).

Not having seen one, I can't say for sure that its comfortable enough for normal use, but its going to be better than a smaller screen model, no matter the brand.

Re:Maybe

[Anonymous Coward]

To clarify you can search an individual PDF, but "Search my items" (i.e. global search) doesn't hit on PDFs. Even on the DX Amazon considers PDF support as "Experimental" so one must assume or hope that device-wide searching will be supported in a future software upgrade. The documentation omission that most annoyed me is that you can't do highlighting/annotations in a PDF (though you can dog-ear, for what that's worth). Also, no inline dictionary is irksome.

My DX will be used 90% of the time for reading PDF academic articles and so far I've found the text (including formulas) rendering to be spot-on. I've not read many PDFs with embedded graphics so I don't know how those turn out. All in all I'm very happy with the thing, now all I need to make my life complete is a plugin for Papers that lets me create itunes-like playlists that automatically sync with it.

Re:Maybe

[Repossessed]

Isn't it going to be too bulky if its that much bigger for it to matter though? The PRS and regular Kindle are already at the upper limit of what I consider acceptable in a pocket device.

Re:Maybe

[ahabswhale]

The DX supports PDF natively. Why don't you learn about the device before you talk about it.

Re:Maybe

[Nyeerrmm]

Yes. I'd never say the DX is a pocket device, and neither are the standard size Kindle or PRS... well, my Kindle (1st Gen) barely fits in a cargo pocket, so I guess it technically is. For the pocket device, for reading on the subway or in line at the bank, the iPhone is much better (yes, I'm a gadget whore); but really the pair of devices going through the Amazon service are great compliments, allowing for long-period reading as well as short-period, at your convenience reading, and synchronizing between the two.

I think the DX is serving a different market entirely, that of academics and students (and any others) who deal with a lot of formatted PDFs and documents with lots of charts and graphs. This isn't something you'd carry everywhere, but something you'd carry instead of mounds of academic papers or loads of textbooks, in a briefcase or backpack. Something that a lot of people don't get, is that when I (and presumably others) get a text-and-math document thats more than 3 or 4 pages, first thing I do after determining that its worth reading at all is print it out, because its much more comfortable to read. A DX could be a good substitute for this, particularly if they improve the note-taking capabilities. Hell, with faster refresh, touch/stylus screen, text recognition, and a standardized format it would allow us to finally be rid of paper... I have month-old scratch paper lying around my room right now... of course thats quite a bit ways away.

If I were staying on for a PhD right now I'd give it serious consideration... however, I think I'd still prefer to read pleasure reading books on the standard sized Kindle. Of course this leaves an academic who likes reading (and is willing to put up with the DRM) in a really bad position, since the DX is a (probably) poor substitute for the 6" model.

Note in all of this that I haven't had a chance to see the DX, or even the normal Kindle 2... its only my opinion based on my use of the Kindle 1, my typical work flow, and what the advertised and reviewed capabilities are.

Re:Maybe

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to say I'm pretty disappointed with it. I bought it specifically because it claims to have native PDF "support". In reality the *only* win is that the document is no longer re-flowed, i.e. it maintains its original formatting. Every single desktop software PDF reader can parse the table of contents and use it to jump to a specific page. This is particularly important for large technical documents that don't number all pages starting from zero at the beginning of the document, e.g. intel docs number pages only within chapters.

I think for the sake of honesty in marketing it should be described as being able to natively *render* PDF. Calling it a "PDF reader" implies functionality that it does not possess.

 

Re:Maybe

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a gadget whore

Misuse or new usage? My dictionary tells that whore = prostitute.

Why not a laptop?

[yog]

Seriously, a wifi-equipped laptop can be had for less than $400, and with a 15" screen and decent storage, why would someone want a limited, single-purpose crippled laptop such as a Kindle?

The Kindle would make sense if it were under $100; it would fall into the nice Christmas gift or Father's Day gadget category for someone who has everything. But for $500? That's a lot of books.

You could buy a laptop and download thousands of free books from Gutenberg.org or wherever, and spend the rest on used books and have more than you can ever hope to read.

Alternatively, you can spend $350-$500 on one of these Amazon gadgets and then have to pay to read books on it.

I think Amazon should move to the inkjet approach of giving away the initial hardware and then making money on the refills. I wouldn't mind paying $5-$10 for a new bestseller (as long as it didn't crash/timeout and disappear on me) but the initial investment is rather daunting.

Plus, physical books are kinda cool; they don't need to be recharged, you can drop them from amazing heights and they still work, they're infinitely reusable and lendable, and they effortlessly multitask--leave one in the bathroom, one on the nightstand, one in the car, etc.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[xenolion]

See I would think this was to now. Over a year and half ago I bought a Sony E-Reader due to the fact I thought the netbooks where a joke, now netbooks are well worth it. I have to stay with yog, buy a netbook/laptop, don't get me wrong I love my e-reader due to the fact I can run what I want on it and not have to follow Amazons rules. The Kindles price is not worth the paper it was created on.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

Laptops don't have e-ink displays and are cumbersome. Laptop batteries are measured in hours, the average being 2-3 hours for a brand new battery, whereas ebook readers have a battery life measured in weeks or even months (try reading a 500 or even 300 page book in 2 hours). Breaking out a small ebook reader while cozied up in a chair is much easier than breaking out the laptop and trying to hold it in one hand.

Books take a lot of physical space and the contents are not quickly accessible. You can fit the contents of an entire bookstore on an ebook reader and you can perform text searches upon those ebooks with results returned in seconds. If I want to lend someone an ebook I simply email it to them. This means I can lend any book to anyone I know, anywhere in the world within seconds.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[SendBot]

Plus, physical books are kinda cool; they don't need to be recharged, you can drop them from amazing heights and they still work, they're infinitely reusable and lendable, and they effortlessly multitask--leave one in the bathroom, one on the nightstand, one in the car, etc.

responses:
- This thing uses very little power. You have to worry more about charging your body with food than charging this thing with power.

- Dunno about you, but I don't like dropping my books either.

- Digital books are EXTREMELY "lendable".

- If you like being a slob you'll find you can leave books (and other things) just about anywhere! Compare looking all over for a book you left somewhere to pushing a few buttons on the kindle.

- and try carrying all your favorite books with you on a plane.

- or reading a backlit laptop display in bright sunlight.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[JamesTheBoilermaker]

You could buy a laptop and download thousands of free books from Gutenberg.org or wherever, and spend the rest on used books and have more than you can ever hope to read.

Alternatively, you can spend $350-$500 on one of these Amazon gadgets and then have to pay to read books on it.

Or, you can buy a Kindle and download thousands of free books from Gutenberg.org or wherever. The Kindle doesn't lock you in to only reading Amazon books. I've probably read about as many project Gutenberg books on my Kindle as I have books I bought from Amazon.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[timpdx]

I disagree, in terms of Amazon following the inkjet model. You would not see $5-10 best sellers, they would be full price, Amazon would have to make the $500 cost of the Kindle up somehow. Then everyone would gripe about e-books being the same cost as a hardback bestseller ($30 and up). Thank God someone ISN'T following the inkjet model. As for me, I would rather have the Kindle over a laptop, those $400 laptops don't have batteries to last even a couple of hours. I can't stand reading on a screen, but my friend's Sony is very easy on the eyes.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[MBoffin]

Why not a laptop, you ask?

Because a laptop battery doesn't last for two weeks.
Because a laptop screen can't be read from any angle.
Because a laptop is much heavier than a Kindle.
Because a laptop doesn't have always-on, free Internet access.

Because a laptop is not a book reader.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[MyDixieWrecked]

Disclaimer: I own a KindleDX and am incredibly happy with it.

you have a lot of good points, but there are some things that you fail to recognize:

For one, the size and weight of books. For a casual reader, the KindleDX is overkill. It's large, expensive and the benefits don't outweigh the hassles (recharging, fragility, etc). For those of us that have large libraries of tech books, the KindleDX allows us to store our entire bookshelf on a single device that takes up less room and weighs significantly less than a single book.

This brings me to my second point: The Kindles (an ebook readers in general) have better displays for reading large quantities of text. It's easier on the eyes than a laptop. Also, for those of us that use mass transit to commute and don't always have a seat, a laptop is not an option. Have you ever tried to stand up in a crowded subway and use a laptop? Even sitting down and using the laptop is a pain. Laptop battery life is also significantly worse than the Kindle's--my kindle hasn't needed to be charged a single time since I got it nearly 3 weeks ago. It also beats out the laptop because you can travel light with it; you don't need to carry a laptop bag. All you need is the device, and since it doesn't require frequent charging, you don't even need to bring the charger (USB cable) with it.

Third point: When using ebooks for reference (or following a tutorial in the book) while you're doing work on the laptop, it's nice to have a separate device. This was one reason why I stuck to buying physical books rather than purchasing PDFs exclusively.

So, while $700 (KindleDX + tax + shipping + 2 year warranty + sleeve) is quite a steep price to pay, for those of us that will use it a lot, it's worth the price. If I wasn't in such need for the solution, I would have held off a year or so and waited for it to come down in price or for a cheaper solution to be released.

My coworker picked up the Sony PRS-700 a couple months ago and he's mostly very satisfied. It was around $375 + tax, but has a significantly smaller screen. Although it's got a touchscreen, the touchiness is kinda flakey and it's got some weird glare because of the touch surface. Also, PDF support in the thing is mediocre--the zoom sucks and it really needs a larger screen.

I was going to hold out for the PlasticLogic (http://www.plasticlogic.com/) but I was hoping for something that I could get real books on, too. Since I really liked the Kindle (my dad picked one up last year) and the features that come with it (cellular websurfing/wikipedia/wireless book delivery and books that you can buy FROM the device), I opted for the DX.

Like I said, the DX isn't for everyone. It's pretty big and it's expensive, but I feel that I'm definitely getting my money's worth.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[richmaine]

I've got a laptop computer. I also have a Kindle. No way is the laptop even close to an adequate substitute. I plan to bring both on a cruise I'm going on starting next week. My Kindle is not the DX, and I'm not at all sure whether I'd prefer the DX or not, but your comments have nothing in particular to do with the DX either. I'm not going to just repeat all the sales blub stuff in detail. That is all readily available. I don't know whether you never read it, or perhaps the Kindle just isn't for you. I'm sure it isn't for everyone, but that doesn't mean it is for nobody. In very short...

The Kindle (non-DX) is sized and shaped about like a paperback (particularly if you get the leather cover - recommended). This is clearly intentional, and it works well. You can tote it around just like a paperback; my wife throws it in her purse just like one. It is a whole lot more handy than my laptop. It is also a *LOT* easier on the eyes than a laptop screen. And yes, I can indeed read it outside in the desert sun here in lighting conditions where it would be hard to even tell whether my laptop was on. Since the epaper screen is a large chunk of the cost of the thing, its properties are important to consider. Yes, if you don't value those properties, you aren't going to value the Kindle.

Its battery life is measured in days instead of hours (caveat: that's with the wireless off, which makes a huge difference; keep the wireless off if you aren't using it). And my aging eyes appreciate that I can select the font size instead of being stuck with whatever tiny font a book printer used.

Most of the books I have on it so far are free ones, though my wife has bought a few, and we'll probably skim Amazon and buy a few more today.

One negative. I don't think the interface for things like newspapers is very convenient. I tried the free trial subscriptions to a few papers, but then I dropped them. The material is there, but it just isn't presented in a way that I find very handy. With either a physical paper or the web, you immediately see what the "big" stories are. Sometimes that's all you want. You don't get that with the Kindle.

Yes, I could carry a dozen books or so on my upcoming cruise. Well, I could carry them until all the extra weight got to me, which it would. Or I could carry my one KIndle. I'm bringing the Kindle.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Tuidjy]

For years now I have been reading Gutenberg/Baen Library/what-have-you books
on my Samsung I730 (PPC/phone), and while the screen is small, landscape mode
is perfectly usable. Now this requires both a tiny bit of technical knowledge
(converting files, installing Cyrilics) and it may be a strain for some people's
eyes, but on the other hand, the phone's with me everywhere, and the battery has
easily lasted through a dozen of trans-Atlantic flights. And when I fail to
properly prepare for a trip, I can still seek&download a .txt file from the Internet.

If I were to look for a more user-friendly alternative, or seek to impress those
around me with a polished device, I would splurge for the Kindle. A laptop, as far
as I concerned, is too middle of the road. Almost as uncool as my Samsung , and
almost as expensive as the Kindle (the phone is more expensive, but I carry it anyway)

By the way my sister recently bought some Sony/Ericson phone/PocketPC with a much nicer
screen, and on that one, even .pdf look damn good. What can I say, I believe in
multifunctional devices and in keeping DRM off them.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[berend botje]

For those of us that have large libraries of tech books, the KindleDX allows us to store our entire bookshelf on a single device that takes up less room and weighs significantly less than a single book.

I have a large library of tech books, how can I store them on the Kindle? By buying them again? No way. I'm not paying a hefty sum for an empty device and then buy my library again. Not gonna happen.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Idiomatick]

The RIAA do not approve your use of the word lend in that sentence. Clearly you meant aiding and abetting first degree piracy against the crown in an act of sedition.

Seriously though. Is 'lending' as easy as you say while using legit sources? I'm sure with torrented books it will be wonderful. However, it does sound like a great way to store all books ever written in your living room.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[ucblockhead]

Because the Kindle isn't a laptop.

It's like saying that an iPod is stupid because your laptop can hold the same number of songs.

(You can also transfer Gutenberg books to the Kindle just fine.)

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Attila Dimedici]

(try reading a 500 or even 300 page book in 2 hours).

Over 2 hours to read a 300 page book? Only if I keep getting interrupted. Actually, it has been a while since I timed how long it takes me to read a book, but I generally figure about 2 hours to read a standard novel.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[MyDixieWrecked]

erm, oh yeah... the internet has dark corners. dark corners indeed.

All future book purchases, I'm buying the PDF if it's available. I do occasionally re-buy older books when new editions come out.

I've purchased at least 2 versions of the O'Reilly MySQL, Javascript, and Python books. I've purchased 2 versions of the Pragmatic Agile Development with Rails book, too. So now, no more taking up extra space, no more waiting for books to ship and no more wishing I took the book(s) with me.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[OrangeTide]

Laptops:

1. don't last weeks on a charge. (something like 3000 page turns on a charge with these eReaders)
2. backlit displays cause eye strain for for reading.
3. are barely readable in direct sunlight. reflective e-ink is simple to read on a park bench.
4. LCDs matrix causes some people eye strain compared to the print-like blobs in electrophoretic displays(e-ink).
5. are cumbersome to read while on a bus/train. Unless perhaps your laptop is a netbook that can fold into a tablet.
6. the reader apps for PCs kind of suck, but that could change quickly.
7. people like to have more than one hot new gadget. (the main reason people drop the money on the Kindle 2 and DX)

You can get the Kindle iPhone/Touch app for free. It is a good reader, and setup in a way that is familiar to Kindle 2/DX's reader software. The display on the iPhone/Touch are a bit small, and reading the bright backlight in the dark for long hours is noticeably tiring. But it is superior to reading on a laptop.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, you are really special.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[berend botje]

I'm not saying that I don't see the use of having a small device containing every book you own. I even understand that you have to start sometime to build a useful collection of e-books.

Say I get the Kindle and get twenty books to start of my collection. That's useful in itself. But it has no hope of competing with my 2000+ book collection on old dead tree.

The first publisher that solves this conundrum gets my money. I'd love to have my collection portable, it just isn't feasible yet.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[AmiMoJo]

Books are quickly accessible - you can flick to any page instantly and browse through at speed. You can't do that on a Kindle because a page turn takes 2 seconds.

You can't just email books to your friends if you buy them from Amazon, thanks to DRM.

The Kindle is pretty good for reading novels. It's almost useless for technical books and PDFs due to the slow screen update.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[nitroamos]

on the other hand.... perhaps a better question is whether it's a good idea to get a kindle, ASSUMING you already have a laptop. which is, i think, a quite likely scenario.

so are the conveniences of a kindle worth 500$ to me? my answer is no.

1) I have my own way of sorting & storing .pdf of academic papers on my laptop.
2) My laptop already does everything i need, including markup, searching, cross-linking to the internet, VPN to my school so I can access more papers.
3) All the tools I like to have (like energy unit converters) are easy access on my laptop, so if I'm reading a paper, I can quickly convert to my preferred units.
4) It doesn't bother me to read on a laptop screen (macbook bought last year), although i don't typically read the entire thing.
5) I don't need to read in random places or from random angles. Any places I might go, e.g. coffee shops, my laptop is not an inconvenience. They'll have an outlet for me to plug in, + wifi + coffee.
6) I spend just about as much time searching for more papers online as I do actually reading them...

so a kindle feels like a step down in terms of capability, that it doesn't make up for in convenience.

at some price point, or in some possible life circumstances, maybe the balance would change, but for me right now, I'm not going to buy one.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Naturalis Philosopho]

Mark my words; as soon as ebooks are the norm, they will cost "full price" no matter what the reader costs. The cost savings are never passsed on to the consumer, it will be taken as profit once they can. eBook readers are case of "oooh, it's digital" "coolness" more than anything else for the user, for the publishers it's a way of delivering less so that they can increase their profit margins.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[SetupWeasel]

If the Kindle were actually like that, it would be wonderful, but I'm pretty sure you can't email your books around. E-ink is great, but the Kindle is too expensive, its books are too expensive, and I'm not going to deal with a company that puts limits on what I purchase.

I am waiting to see what Google does. I think that they are the only possible company that has the inclination and sheer might to give us an e-book reader and content that is reader friendly.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's why I'm getting one of these instead of a Kindle.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

Keep your books. Thats fine. Whenever you want to bring a book somewhere, just see if you can "find it" online somewhere in PDF format. You're complaint is equivalent to the guy who had hundreds of VHS tapes saying, "I'm not buying a DVD player until some guy figures out how I can get my old collection on there with absolutely no work on my part." With over 2000+ books, space saving seems like it'd be ultra convenient for you. You can save an entire room that must be dedicated to books. That room can now be used for something completely different. You can even sell those books if you want or donate them to a library or school. I dunno. I'm just saying that what you're waiting for is never going to happen. It didn't happen with VHS->DVD. And it didn't happen with DVD->Hi Def discs or digital downloads. It didn't happen with cassettes to CDs or CDs to digital downloads either. You'll always need to either put in work, find a copy online, or buy it again. I'll admit the effort required to convert a book into digital on your own though is significantly more of a hassle than converting a music CD.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[refitman]

Screw the Kindle 2. The ability to buy the first version in the UK would be a start!

Re:Why not a laptop?

[commodoresloat]

it does sound like a great way to store all books ever written in your living room.

How many books have you written in your living room?

Re:Why not a laptop?

[nurb432]

for 500 i agree.

For less i disagree. The kindle is great for what its designed to. For someone that doenst like reading on the 'pc', i dont mind at all reading a book on a G1 kindle.

And just for the record you DONT have to pay to read books on it. there are 10000's of legal free books you can put on there, even more if your morals are a bit 'grey'.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Tweenk]

Because a laptop screen can't be read from any angle.

Nowadays laptops and even standalone monitors have shitty screens. Look at a HP TC1100 someday for true LCD glory. Viewable for any angle with no color degradation and very slight brightness changes. When I went to a store I was very surprised that almost all modern screens are inferior compared to this 4 year old thing.

Of course it is different from an e-ink screen. For example, it's not too bright when viewed in direct sunlight. But overall if you can buy a cheap used TC1100 it makes for a great ebook reader (because you can detach the keyboard) and graphic tablet. It works well with Linux too.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[noric]

Clearly you've never held a Kindle.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[iocat]

Read the sentence again, please. They could have been written by *anyone* in his living room, not just him!

My issue with the DX is that you can download newspapers, but not as an image of the front page -- just as a list of files. If I wanted to do that, I'd use a web browser. When I can d/l a paper and read it like a paper -- lots of stories per page, ability to scan quickly over it all -- I'll buy one in a heartbeat. I woudl guess that's a few years away though.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

And he has a special bus to prove it!

Re:Why not a laptop?

[dave_leigh]

Those are good answers to the question "why not a laptop?" but it still doesn't answer whether the Kindle is worth the money. It isn't.

For around a hundred bucks I got a Palm T|X. It's better than the Kindle for most purposes, and I have an extra $400 for books. Benefits of the Palm....
- it easily fits in a pocket.
- it can be read in pitch-black darkness (the Kindle can't), and the battery easily lasts long enough to read an entire book. Longer if I turn off the wi-fi and Bluetooth when I'm not using it.
- it easily fits in a pocket.
- supports multiple formats, including plain text, doc, eReader, pdf...
- it easily fits in a pocket.
- it also allows me to take notes, use a calculator, track my appointments, read email, search Google, play games, and listen to music. I can carry SDRAM cards.
- it easily fits in a pocket.

A Kindle is big, clunky, and underpowered by comparison. The Palm has a smaller screen, as you can expect (did I mention it fits easily in a pocket?). The iPhone is likewise better than the Kindle for the same reason. We're not comparing these devices to books, so your statements here are puzzling. You can search on a laptop, or PDA as well. You're going to carry a phone anyway... why not make it an iPhone or Palm Pre that gives you the connectivity, convenience and the capability you want without having to lug an expensive and frankly redundant bit of limited electronics like the Kindle?

As for the eBooks, they can be gotten in all the same places. I personally make my own books in eReader's PDB format from public domain works on Project Gutenberg. Some authors are releasing their works under Creative Commons licenses. They cost me nothing and I can give them away (never mind the lending). And there is that $400 I saved... it amounts to 40 books in the Amazon store or more than that elsewhere.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[nldavepc]

I do agree with some of the people here regarding the Kindle's price versus lack of features as compared to a laptop. Personaly, I quite like using my pocket pc (touch diamond 2) for reading ebooks. The screen is small but the 480x800 resolution is very nice. The only thing it lacks is a good cbr/cbz reader for reading comics, but I found that an eeepc is perfect for that task so I won't complain. Perhaps the 200 dollar tablet that was mentioned on this site some time ago would be a good alternative to the kindle: http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/07/21/we-want-a-dead-simple-web-tablet-help-us-build-it/

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

The newspapers should work out a deal with Amazon where the news customers can buy a Kindle at a subsidized price in return for a 2-3 year subscription to the online version of the paper.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[BrokenHalo]

...I generally figure about 2 hours to read a standard novel.

You're obviously not married. I only have to open a novel and my wife starts flapping her mouth. (Even if she herself is supposedly reading something.) I count it a quiet night if I manage half a paragraph without being interrupted...

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

No one is demanding you do so, you little faggot.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

You have not seen DX, have you? While it's indeed useless for reading PDF because of the poor software it has a much faster display than the original Kindle, which you are probably talking about.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[berend botje]

I know you're right. I'm not ready (or willing) to get rid of all my real books but would be very happy if I could reclaim some space by going digital.

Perhaps I could start by thinning the herd, so to speak, and get rid of the old, outdated technical books. Who needs a reference guide for PHP 1.0 anymore?

I have to give it some more thought.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[BikeHelmet]

Books also don't mysteriously vanish when the publisher goes out of business.

But if Amazon's DRM servers ever go down, all your eBooks go with it!

I know, I know... "What are the chances of Amazon going down?" ... well, slim to nil. But what are the chances of them deciding to shut off their DRM servers to save money, in 15 years? I bet those odds are much higher.

PlaysForSure? Uh huh! Burn me once and I'll learn!

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Nutria]

leave ... one in the car

And if you leave an e-reader in the car (especially a dark-colored car, in the sun), Bad Things will happen to your really expensive gadget...

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Brad Eleven]

I remember exactly the same argument when high-dollar MP3 players started showing up. Whatever the market will bear.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Zerth]

My wife reads approx 500-1000 pages of PDF documents a week.

It took me a day or two to find a work-around, I'd hope it wouldn't take you much longer, even if you had to automate a screencapture+reprint to pdf.

It was worth it to me just to make reading for her easier, let alone the 20+/week the printing cost.

A DX is only worth it if you want a large screen area or really need to view PDFs or documents you can't just throw through a character recognition program.

If you just need plain text, no pictures, convert your documents to HTML or straight text and use a regular Kindle. I've a kindle2 and, while I don't like most of Baen's catalog, I love their DRM-free policy because I can read them on a Kindle when I can't read Kindle files elsewhere without "converting" them. So they've got more of my ebook money than Amazon has.

None of the other book readers I've owned had as long a battery life, barring a 80x40 text display device I once owned back in the 90's that could only store 1 MB of data.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[MyDixieWrecked]

Ok, you're the next level up from me, then. I've got about 100 books, about 10-20 of which I use for reference regularly and about 50 that I haven't touched in 5+ years.

I feel that this problem is the same that plagues the music industry. My best example is the fact that I've got MP3s that I encoded from my own CDs back around 1999/2000. the CDs are now lost or damaged beyond repair (cannot be reliably ripped), the mp3s have missing tags, are encoded low quality and/or have become damaged themselves. I really wish record companies would give special deals on back-catalog content. Shit that's old enough that everyone who would buy it has bought it at least once already. The best example of that is Metallica. Even though I've purchased all their old stuff at least once in the past (tape, CD, vinyl), I'd buy the back catalog in a heartbeat if it was offered for cheap (say, $40 for everything up to the Black Album).

Same goes for O'Reilly. I would drop $50 to get PDF versions of all the books I already own (I dunno if I'd pay much more than that). Either that or make the Kindle compatible with Safari.

I think most problems have been solved when it comes to ebooks/ereaders... the last big one is for people with enormous libraries that they'd like to replace on the cheap.

Just think of how much easier it'll be if you have to move if you didn't have 2000+ books? I had a hell of a time with my small collection as it was, I don't even wanna picture your troubles.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[MyDixieWrecked]

Who needs a reference guide for PHP 1.0 anymore?

yeah, right now you're saying that, but in 15 years, that shit will be awesome to show off.

I've still got the first edition of The C Programming Language (in addition to the second edition).

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

Please list some of these "standard novels" that you read in two hours. 15-20 seconds per page? That's some ridiculously fast reading there.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[haifastudent]

and they effortlessly multitask--leave one in the bathroom, one on the nightstand, one in the car, etc.

Allright, I understand what you've multitasking with the pages in the bathroom for, and if you're into that whole "cuming outside" thing than the one on the nightstand as well. But I really cannot figure out what you're doing with the one in the car. Wiping down the dipstick?

Re:Why not a laptop?

[nabsltd]

Because a laptop battery doesn't last for two weeks.

Because a laptop doesn't have always-on, free Internet access.

I have to wonder how any device can have "always-on Internet access" and have a battery that lasts for two weeks.

With my Blackberry sitting in its holster, it uses zero power for the screen, so in that state it's just like a Kindle for power usage...only the cell connection is using any power. It will only last about 4-5 days at most when in this state (which isn't actually uncommon for me, as it's not my cell phone...it's really only used to receive emergency system outage e-mails).

Admittedly, the Kindle can have a larger battery, so two weeks might not be a big deal, but we also hear people talking about months between charges on the Kindle. That would have to be one hefty battery.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[shutdown -p now]

Depends on where. For example, online e-book stores are a booming market in Russia - virtually all titles on the market are available in dozens of formats, from open TXT, RTF, PDF and FB2, to reader-specific formats such as LIT and LRF. No DRM at all. And even a new release generally costs no more than 50% than a paper book, and older books are 3x-4x cheaper - overall it's $1.5-$2 for a typical fiction book. A lot of ways to pay, from CC and direct debit to pay terminals and pay-by-SMS.

This isn't like AllOfMP3, either - no legal loopholes used, they work directly with authors and publishers (who set the prices). Quite a few authors have direct contracts, bypassing the publishers entirely. Thankfully, those people understand that setting the prices too high will only result in more piracy.

Coupled with any eInk-based reader (mine is Sony, but it's more a matter of taste), it's really great - a convenient pocket library at very affordable prices.

You could have that in U.S., too (with prices adjusted for your standard of living). What, you don't? Well, maybe your free market ain't so free...

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

"The Kindle is pretty good for reading novels. It's almost useless for technical books and PDFs due to the slow screen update."

To each his (or her) own, but I don't find this to be the case - I don't find myself so enamoured with the technical books I've been reading on my DX that I can't wait a second or two for the next page to display. And this is with PDF books, not Kindle-formatted material. As many others have pointed out, it isn't significantly worse than the time it takes to flip a physical page, and I don't recall anyone complaining that page turn speed was a huge limiting factor with paper books.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[__aapspi39]

Yes indeed, I will vouch for the TC1100 - a futuristic yet very well-made gadget.

Turned up in lots of movies - and looked every bit the part http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tc1100#Appearances_in_Popular_Culture

The thing was tough and light enough to carry around. Quiet as a peep as well, it was. Originally designed by Compaq i think. Why it was dropped I'll never know - deep sigh.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[OFnow]

You (easily) turn off Whispernet to get 2 week battery life.
With Whispernet on you get a day or two battery life.
Mostly there is no reason to have Whispernet on.

Another good point of Kindle (any Kindle): you can read it in full sunlight.
Try that with a laptop...

Re:Why not a laptop?

[haystor]

See Attila read.
Read Attila read.
Nice reading Attila.

I'm not doubting his ability to finish books in 2 hours.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[RocketRabbit]

There are many laptops out now that are not much larger than the Kindle DX, and the PDFs you have on them will not decide to shit out on you one day (unless the drive does!).

Kindle is a ripoff. Maybe, if they included say, 100 free book downloads of your choice in the cost, it'd be worth it. But many of the books available on the Kindle cost more than than the real deal!

Sorry, Amazon. Until the Kindle's books are say, in the $0.99-$5 (for new releases!) range you will lose.

$500 indeed.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Obispus]

Right on the money. Add to the list of advantages: - Screen perfectly readable outdoors, even under direct, bright sunlight.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[hey!]

Disclaimer: I own a KindleDX...

Well, I guess I'll just have to ignore everything you have to say about the KindleDX then. You see Slashdot analysis is like geometry. It relies on pure reason, rather than mere sensory experience which has been known to be misleading.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[fafaforza]

If you had a business selling books, or CDs, or whatever, would you react positively if people could just email your product to anyone? C'mon, stop with the 'information wants to be free' stuff.

The only problem with DRM is that it is proprietary and that it can't change ownership. So your books could expire, or stop working when you break your device and need a new one. You also can't gift the book to someone or resell it.

But allowing your stuff to just be emailed freely is beyond ridiculous if you want to actually make a living at it. If it is your hobby, then fine, make it a plain text file.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[whitefox]

Look for online specials. Packt recently offered an awesome deal: 5 books for $99 with no shipping and free PDF versions which are DRM free. No, it doesn't help with the existing books in your library but for new ones it pays to look around.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[bemymonkey]

It's not worth it to me either, but I can see the appeal of a device like the Kindle 1/2/DX for people who actually just want to read (yep, there are people who don't feel the need to carry around a laptop everywhere they go... freaks, I know :p) novels and news articles. The long battery life is great, as well as the sunlight-capable screen.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Attila Dimedici]

I am married, but my wife has a Second Life, so she doesn't interrupt my first life very much.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

...I can read my laptop screen from any angle I could read a book from... Might be time to move out of the year 2000.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[srmalloy]

For one, the size and weight of books. For a casual reader, the KindleDX is overkill. It's large, expensive and the benefits don't outweigh the hassles (recharging, fragility, etc). For those of us that have large libraries of tech books, the KindleDX allows us to store our entire bookshelf on a single device that takes up less room and weighs significantly less than a single book.

No. You are missing the point. A Kindle 2 or a Kindle DX allows you to store your entire bookshelf on a single device for you to read. If I have 500 books on my bookshelf, I can read any of them I want... and I can loan one to my friend, or to my neighbor, or to a co-worker, and we can all be reading those books at the same time. If I have 500 books on my Kindle, I can read them. If I want my friend, or my neighbor, or my co-worker, to read one of those books, I have to loan them all of them at once, by loaning them my Kindle, which prevents me from reading any of them. And I can only loan books to one person at a time, because there is only one interface to access the stored books. And I'm willing to bet that the manufacturers of the various e-book readers are counting on this; where someone might have bought a book and loaned it to several people after reading it, when Amazon sells a Kindle book, they know that that buyer, if they like the book enough to recommend it to others, becomes an unpaid sales agent for them -- if they'd bought a dead-tree edition, they could say "Here, you need to read this" and hand them the book, and Amazon makes nothing unless that person decides they need their own copy. But if the first person only has a Kindle edition, the second person has to buy their own copy, or find someone who has a dead-tree edition to borrow it.

Third point: When using ebooks for reference (or following a tutorial in the book) while you're doing work on the laptop, it's nice to have a separate device. This was one reason why I stuck to buying physical books rather than purchasing PDFs exclusively.

However, both the Kindle 2 and the Kindle DX, while they work very well for reading through a book, and are much more convenient to carry around than a half-dozen reference works, fall down badly when you try to use them as a reference book. For example, when I'm looking up how to do something in a book on, say, SQL Server Integration Services, I would look up the task in the index, then page back to that part of the book, a task which a properly-organized Kindle document can handle. While I'm reading that section, it references doing a subtask, which was explained two chapters earlier. With a hardcopy book, I can flip back in chunks of pages until I find the right chapter (think about how you find the right page in a phone book for "Jones, William J" -- you open to a page a bit before the middle of the phone book, then page forward or back in smaller and smaller groups of pages until you get the right page) -- but with the Kindle, I can back up a page or go forward a page; jumping back and forth multiple pages is tedious, as is going back to the index and finding what I want, or jumping to a bookmark, assuming you have one already made in the right spot.

Kindles and the other e-book readers are useful -- I own a Kindle 2 myself, and am debating whether the larger screen size of a Kindle 2 is worth the cost for the storage convenience with books whose content becomes less than legible on the Kindle 2's screen; I read enough that carrying around enough books that I don't run out (and having to swap them out as I finish them) is tedious; my Kindle lets me go from one book to the next just by picking the next book out of the title list. But for all its utility, I still buy dead-tree editions of books, particularly when it's a book that I expect to use in something other than the 'start at the front page, read through to the end' reading for entertainment mode. However, I may

Re:Why not a laptop?

[ewertz]

But laptops keep my junk all nice and toasty while I'm reading. It's an e-book reader AND a spermicide. Twofer!

Re:Why not a laptop?

[skoda]

Seriously, a wifi-equipped laptop can be had for less than $400, and with a 15" screen and decent internet access, why would someone want a limited, single-purpose crippled cellphone such as a you buy for $50 at Verizon?

Seriously, a hammer can be had for less than $10 and can effectively pound a fastener through any amount of wood? Why would someone want a limited, overpriced drill?

You buy the tool best suited for the job.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[ucblockhead]

Why do you expect that to happen when the exact opposite happened with music? When CDs were the norm, a "cheap" CD was $15.99.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Type-R]

Yeah, I mean this is completely not like real books... Can you imagine in real life if you could just send a book to someone and NOT charge them the full list price on the cover, sending the appropriate share to the publisher so they can kick a few cents back to the author!?!? Oh wait...................

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Draek]

If I want to lend someone an ebook I simply email it to them. This means I can lend any book to anyone I know, anywhere in the world within seconds.

Unless you bought it from Amazon. And almost all of your advantages are also met by my aging Palm T3, its only missing the e-Ink display but is, nevertheless, quite comfortable for reading long books. Plus its much cheaper and does a lot more stuff, like playing chess or listening to music ;)

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Inconnux]

A cheap netbook is even smaller and still does 100x what the kindle does for far less. I can't believe the price of a gadget that is basically a black and white text reader. $50 max is what it is really worth

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Inconnux]

Because a kindle is only a black and white text reader???

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Hadlock]

Laptops don't have e-ink displays

Oh, my kingdom for even a 10fps e-ink display (with, I guess, an indiglo backlight of some sort for pitch-black situations) on a laptop. 15" e-ink laptop? Yes, please. Actually that tech would wonderfully compliment a netbook or something like an ancient Psion 5 or something inbetween, coming full circle on the PDA front. I wouldn't mind an e-ink 22" LCD for work. Oh yes, that would do wonderfully.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[RockDoctor]

15" e-ink laptop? Yes, please. Actually that tech would wonderfully compliment a netbook or something like an ancient Psion 5 or something in between, coming full circle on the PDA front.

After my first mobile phone was banned from being taken to work (along with the small number of other people's mobiles that were around), I was looking at replacement technologies. I hemmed and hawed between going for a Psion 5 and waiting for eInk displays to come to market.

My Psion is still working 10 years (and several screens, cases and motherboards, but not data) later, and eInk is barely here. One of my few good calls on technology - normally me adopting a technology is it's kiss of death.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[_Swank]

Aren't you missing the fact that if you were to email a digital copy to a friend you end up with 2 (or more) copies while in 'real life' if you send them an actual book, you end up not having the book still yourself? You really should have tried a car analogy, that surely would have been better.

I know it's nice wanting everything to be free or to be able to do whatever you want with something you purchase. But buying different things can and do have different strings attached. If you don't like the strings, don't buy and, eventually, the strings will have to go away. Buy or steal instead and you're justifying those strings.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[_Swank]

But the original article is asking mostly about using this to read academic papers.

If that's the case, doesn't the small size of the Palm (or other handheld device) cause problems? With academic papers often containing graphs, tables, images, etc. won't these potentially have a difficult time being shown on the handheld screen in enough detail along with the explanatory text to be as easily readable?

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Naturalis Philosopho]

You could be right, I'm extrapolating from experience, not using a crystal ball. I'm just not encouraged by that fact that iTunes songs used to be 99 across the board and run $1.29 (for the vast majority of songs) now that digital downloads are so popular, and CDs still out numbered downloads 2 to 1 in 2008. In fact, you could be very right and publishers will charge less on average per book; of course even that could have the consequence of lower pay to authors, which might result in more crap and less quality (like, in my opinion, has happened in music, and is already happening in publishing as it is). I hope that your optimism is justified, but the cynic in me has a hard time trusting that things are going to get better before they get a lot worse.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[CarpetShark]

Mark my words; as soon as ebooks are the norm, they will cost "full price" no matter what the reader costs.

Which will be a lot more than the relatively cheap paperback price (at least for fiction) that we've all come to know and love.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[AmiMoJo]

I guess you haven't heard of the public library then?

Not only do they lend books to anyone willing to give their name and address, but they even charge you for not bringing them back on time, all without the consent of the publisher and never giving the author a penny beyond the initial purchase.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Stele]

Books also don't mysteriously vanish when the publisher goes out of business.

But if Amazon's DRM servers ever go down, all your eBooks go with it!

FUD. If Amazon's servers go down, the books that you have on your device will continue to work fine (until the device dies of course).

However, nobody is forcing you to buy books from Amazon. I found hundreds of books in plain text format for my wife's kindle by alternate means.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

What has been said are good arguments for the Kindle DX but from reading these posts I come to the conclusion that the kindle is too expensive for what you get. Yes it has an extremely long battery life (which some may argue is worth the money) but if there is no search function, aside from scrolling down to each chapter how would you find your place once you need to stop reading? Also....I am reading my laptop and typing each sentence from a different angle...I can read my screen the same as any piece of paper...(Dell Latitude D620). From what I can see the features are highly lacking. Now the "CrunchPad" reported to be unveiled soon looks like it would be a good by, if its under $300. I wonder if it would be able to open pdf's in the web browser...keep books on flash drive and open them via browser would be a good alternative if it has a decent batter life. I currently read my books on my laptop and while it is heavier than an book reader, I generally dont hold it close to my face in my hands, I just set it in my lap like a normal person...lol...since text has difficulty in showing emotion/facial expression I want to say that I am unbiased one way or the other, I find the Kindle is too expensive for my blood.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[BikeHelmet]

It's not FUD. If their servers go down, you aren't downloading a thing off them!

And DRM servers eventually going down is the rule - not the exception. You're gambling with your ownership of stuff.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's easy enough to convert any DRM protected book into a non-protected format. It's also easy to download them from torrent sites.

Without the e-ink display, your device has poor readability and poor battery life compared to a proper ebook reader.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Stele]

The OP said YOUR eBooks go down with it, which is just wrong. That's different than not being able to buy new books.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[vaporland]

ebooks you buy from Amazon are DRM'd - you cannot lend them to anyone.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhh, yes, you can. Just strip the DRM stuff out, it's extremely easy.

For a computer tech site, Slashdot has a surprisingly high number of technically clueless people like you.

Re:Why not a laptop?

[BikeHelmet]

The OP said YOUR eBooks go down with it, which is just wrong.

Right. You can't download your eBooks ever again! Yes, you can probably keep a copy on SD card, but downloading is now completely out of the picture!

And this is assuming the DRM won't block you from viewing your already downloaded ones, if it can't contact the DRM servers.

Math PDFs

[Elote]

It worked beautifully for the 2-3 higher mathematics PDFs I tried it with. All ot the little set theory symbols were displayed crystal clear. I don't think the screen is as readable as the PRS505's, however it's still good.

Re:Math PDFs

[Anonymous Coward]

The PRS505 is god's gift to readers. Nuf said.

Re:Math PDFs

[Qubit]

The PRS-505 is apparently a version of the Sony Reader. The latest version is the PRS-700, which looks to be about $350 right now.

Re:Math PDFs

[bwalling]

The PRS-505 and the PRS-700 are both current models. The 700 has a touchscreen, which increases usability at the expense of screen clarity. The touchscreen is an overlay to the e-Ink screen, so you're viewing it through another material. The 505 is a nice device and handles PDF just fine. I picked one up a few weeks ago when Borders had it on sale for $199.

Re:Math PDFs

[acheron12]

The 505 has a much smaller screen than the DX though, which while fine for novels makes it less suitable for journal articles.

You might be interested in MobileRead's ebook comparison matrix.

Re:Math PDFs

[shutdown -p now]

I don't think the screen is as readable as the PRS505's

It's slightly lower DPI, but otherwise seems to be the same. There haven't been any production eInk screens with more gray gradations or higher DPI than on PRS-505 or the older Kindle so far.

Re:Math PDFs

[Repossessed]

The readability issue on the kindle is supposedly a protective coating added for the touch screen. Bad glare results from this. The PRS 700 has the same issue (which is why I bought the 505, though the 700 has some nice perks as well).

Re:Math PDFs

[OrangeTide]

The Kindle has no touch screen.

Re:Math PDFs

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, the PRS505 has the same display as the Kindle. They have been buying them from the same manufacturer. But it does have a different controller and a lower end CPU and less RAM.

Kindle review

[mr100percent]

I trust David Pogue, and he reviewed it this week

This question sounds like it deserves the LMGTFY treatment though.

Reviewed by Linux Journal

[rm_-fr_*]

Here:

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/10257

Nokia n810?

[green1]

It's cheaper, smaller, and it's pretty much a full Linux based computer... oh and it has a colour screen too!

I'm sorry, but at $500 you can buy any of a number of laptops, netbooks or PDAs that all do much more than the Kindle does. Their price point is definitely in the wrong place for such a limited device.

Re:Nokia n810?

[Albanach]

It's cheaper, smaller, and it's pretty much a full Linux based computer... oh and it has a colour screen too!

Given he is asking about the larger Kindle, the DX, I hardly think a smaller screen would be considered a plus. The point of the DX is that you can view an entire page, just like having a textbook in front of you. For that the N810 - while an awesome tool is hardly a substitute.

The N810 also misses the mark, because it has a standard screen, not an e-ink one. That's great for reading a web page, but really strains your eyes if you want to read extensively.

My own thoughts are that the DX still lacks decent annotating and that's a big flaw. There are several schools trialing them at the moment as a substitute for 1st year text books, and I'm sure this will be pointed out. Either Amazon will release a new model with decent annotating (either make a decent keyboard or get very good at handwriting recognition) or Sony will beat them to it in an attempt to recapture the market.

Re:Nokia n810?

[Wovel]

Really? Which cheaper devices let you read books on a 9" screen and automatically synch free and paid content over 3G without any recurring service costs? One link to any device that does all that and more and costs less will be sufficient. I will even give you a freebie, your device can include the long term eye strain from reading on a backlit device..Still nothing..That is kind of what I thought...

I think the n810 is a great device, the comparison is like comparing apples and monkeys.

Re:Nokia n810?

[JohnBailey]

It's cheaper, smaller, and it's pretty much a full Linux based computer... oh and it has a colour screen too!

I'm sorry, but at $500 you can buy any of a number of laptops, netbooks or PDAs that all do much more than the Kindle does. Their price point is definitely in the wrong place for such a limited device.

And it fails on the second property you mentioned. For PDF, a netbook is about the smallest practical display. Not to mention the fairly short battery life of the N series web tablets. I have an N800, and I agree. they are great for the proper tasks. But reading PDFs is not one of them. I know. I tried with my N800, and the screen size was only one of the drawbacks. Loading time was the worst.

I'm a keen e-book reader. Got myself an e-ink based reader last year, and I love it. For it's intended task, it's fantastic. That task being reading fiction. NOTHING ELSE

But I have a grand total of zero PDF files on it. Because when it comes to using PDF files, the current range of readers are all basically crap. Including the Kindle DX. The screen updates far too slowly. so paging back and forth is irritating. Search if it works, is slow. looking up the index is also slow, and usually set over several pages if it even has links..

If you want to read fiction, great. You will get onto the habit of pressing the next page button mid way in the last sentence of the current page, so you don't even notice the page refresh blink after a few chapters. And as fiction is read one page after the other, it is perfectly suited to this. Graphic novels may be ok. A bit small on a 6 inch screen, but the bigger Kindle screen might work out ok. These too are page by page, not random access.

But if you need to read a few paragraphs here, look in the index, and read a few pages somewhere else.. All common tasks with manuals.. Forget it. Get a netbook for portability or a tablet for functionality. Both great choices for manuals and text books. Do yourself a favour. Avoid e-ink displays unless the primary function is fiction reading. No matter how big the screen. You will either be disappointed, or worse.. end up justifying the extra cost of a 9 inch book reader that only works for manuals in the same way an iPhone works as a camera.

There are supposed to be a few new displays coming out that are better suited to fast access, but you are realistically looking at several years before they are on sale anywhere. The current generation are a dead loss for PDF files.

Re:Nokia n810?

[Daswolfen]

the comparison is like comparing apples and monkeys.

mmmm... Monkeys... err.. Apples... I meant apples...

Re:Nokia n810?

[abigor]

True, but you can't read any of those things outside in full sunlight. I like to read out on my balcony, and using a laptop out there is impossible. Same with on the ferry to work, when I sit by a window. For reading, backlit displays are fundamentally terrible devices.

What people don't understand is that the Kindle is NOT a laptop replacement - it's an e-Ink display device, an electronic book that reads in the same way as the printed page. Either this is meaningful to you as someone who reads a lot, or it isn't, particularly if your "reading" consists of browsing the web and jumping from site to site to get the news or look at Slashdot or whatever.

Re:Nokia n810?

[Anonymous Coward]

USD 272.80

http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-N810-Portable-Internet-Tablet/dp/B000Y4AH3C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1246650803&sr=8-1

Re:Nokia n810?

[5pp000]

I read PDFs on my N810 sometimes, when I have some time to kill and don't have my laptop. Yes, turning pages is slow, but I think it works well enough.

Re:Nokia n810?

[Doofus]

Methinks you extrapolate without enough sampling enough data.

For it's intended task, it's fantastic. That task being reading fiction. NOTHING ELSE

The Kindle's intended task is displaying the written word for reading. I happen to find it fantastic for reading. Reading fiction, non-fiction, periodicals, and work-related documents. Others apparently find the DX appropriate for non-fiction, as several universities are working with Amazon to put textbooks (....non-fiction?) on the device.

I have exactly zero (0) works of fiction on my DX. I have six or seven books (purchased), all non-fiction; a Project Gutenberg text (free), non-fiction; a $1.99 trial issue of a magazine, mostly non-fiction, some short works of fiction (The New Yorker); and several work-related documents in PDF format.

The New Yorker indeed has a navigable table of contents, as do other periodicals, based on several reviews I've read. PDFs do not behave the same way on the DX as on a computer, but as others have pointed out, this may be remediated with a software upgrade.

Re:Nokia n810?

[the donner party]

How do you cope with the usability problems the GP poster mentioned? Is it just that you don't mind waiting seconds for the display to refresh, or have you developed some tricks to make flipping through pages more effective?

Re:Nokia n810?

[JohnBailey]

I read PDFs on my N810 sometimes, when I have some time to kill and don't have my laptop. Yes, turning pages is slow, but I think it works well enough.

I've done the same on my N800. Belive me.. I'm not knocking the Nokia tablets at all. I'm happy with my N800. And I have read proper e-books with FBreader and read PDFs. I got a 6 inch e-ink screen reader to read on though. Even though I already have the Nokia and a Palm T3. My point is that it is ok in a pinch, but it is not a preferred way of doing it. If you were buying an N810 specifically to read PDFs would you still be as happy? And if you could freely choose between say a netbook and an N800 to read on at any given time, which would you choose?

Re:Nokia n810?

[5pp000]

If you were buying an N810 specifically to read PDFs would you still be as happy? And if you could freely choose between say a netbook and an N800 to read on at any given time, which would you choose?

Agreed, if I had both with me at all times the netbook would, no doubt, be superior. But my N810 rides in a hip pouch, and I really do have it with me at all times; a netbook I would have to pick up and carry.

I think Nokia should update the N810. There's now a 45nm TI OMAP running at 720MHz -- almost twice as fast as the current chip -- and they could also double the DRAM and built-in flash, and change the flash slot from Mini-SDHC (a dying format) to Micro-SDHC. Then I would change the market positioning from "Internet Tablet" (what's that?) to "Pocket Netbook".

Depends

[Spy Handler]

If the textbooks you require are available at Amazon, you can save money (ebooks cost less than paper)... if you need to buy lots of them then you might even save enough to offset the Kindle purchase price.

If not, there are other readers that handle PDF better (*ony makes one)

Re:Depends

[Anonymous Coward]

If the textbooks you require are available at Amazon, you can save money (ebooks cost less than paper)...

Basic economics failure. You can't sell your amazon purchased and thus reduce the actual costs of material. Heck, you can't lend them out or give them away. e-books need to be 99cents or less before DRM wankfests like the kindle will ever stand a chance of success.

Re:Depends

[spire3661]

I dont know about $.99 as a valid price point, but you are right in the fact that DRM on ebooks significantly reduces their overall real world value and should be priced accordingly. They are worth less because of the artificial transfer limitations. And while we are at it, shouldnt prohibiting the transfer of ebooks be illegal anyways? THe right of first sale should prevail here.

Re:Depends

[Anonymous Coward]

You can save even more money by using a library or buying used copies.

You don't always need the latest version of a book.

What is the Kindle like?

[kawabago]

What is the Kindle like? It's like a book with ink that can vanish permanently at any moment.

Not an anti-DRM Nazi....

[Rick Zeman]

...by any means here, but I'd never buy a Kindle unless I can borrow or lend a Kindle book like a dead tree book. Serialize it to the purchaser, and have the mothership ensure it's only on one device at any one time. To me, that's a reasonable compromise. The way it is now SUCKS and should be avoided at all costs (pun intended....)

Re:Not an anti-DRM Nazi....

[maxume]

The device supports a wide range of formats (Tools for Mobipocket are pretty easy to come by, and it is basically the format Amazon uses, with some minor differences: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobipocket ).

So really, you aren't interested in buying the media, the device passes your sniff test just fine, and you could put books from Project Gutenburg or whatever on it (the ebook production available on free versions of these books is somewhat lacking, but it is pretty much only going to get better).

Re:Not an anti-DRM Nazi....

[Anonymous Coward]

...by any means here, but I'd never buy a Kindle unless I can borrow or lend a Kindle book like a dead tree book. Serialize it to the purchaser, and have the mothership ensure it's only on one device at any one time. To me, that's a reasonable compromise. The way it is now SUCKS and should be avoided at all costs (pun intended....)

That is until the mothership leaves orbit and all you are left with is a bunch of inaccessable bytes that you can never use again.. nothing reasonable at all about that compromise - give me dead trees or give me DRM FREE!!

Re:Not an anti-DRM Nazi....

[lordofthechia]

"So really, you aren't interested in buying the media,"

He didn't say that, he was complaining about kindle books (not the reader) in that they are way too limited for what they cost. This in turn leads to the conclusion, what value does the kindle have if it's own native format is such a bad deal (and aside from reading project Gutenberg, reading "pirated books" may not be a moral option for some).

Which is true that in the case of the Kindle, the pirates again have a better product (with less restrictions). Same thing with DVDs. I have seen upscaling DVD players that *won't* upscale "copyrighted movies" (eg virtually all originals which have CSS) through the component outputs and instead limits them to 480p, though if you pirate said movie (and remove the CSS), the pirated copy will play at full 1080i through the component output.

So in this case a pirated book or simply the old paperback still present a much better value (aside from the "carry you whole book library in one locked down device!" point).

Re:Not an anti-DRM Nazi....

[snStarter]

You're wrong because I can have e-books on both my Kindle and my iPhone both at the same time, and have them synched between them.

Re:Not an anti-DRM Nazi....

[theCoder]

That's great that you can have a book you purchased on two of your devices (really, that is a nice feature). However, is it possible to lend a DRM'd book from your Kindle to someone else's Kindle? That's what the OP was asking for. In real life, I can lend a physical book to someone else. While they have the book, I can't read it. Is it possible to do the same with a Kindle? I suspect not.

It may not be reasonable to expect that feature. I can imagine that websites would quickly spring up to help people lend and borrow books all over the world. But it's an interesting thing to think about.

Oops

[rm_-fr_*]

That's the old one. Just woke up. The latest kindle IS reviewed by LJ, but it is for subscribers only (for now)...

This is why I love slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

"Now that some little time has passed, and the hype has died down a bit, I'm wondering if anyone has taken the $500 plunge and gotten a Kindle DX. From the academic-paper-reading-geek perspective, is it worth the money? How well does it work with PDFs, and is it easy to get them on and off? I haven't been able to find any good reviews on the interweb that address its usability as I would like to use it."

This is why I love this place. Slashdot: Where interweb can and will be used in a serious manner.

No

[Locke2005]

No. Books are available for free from your local public library, and you've already got a computer capable of downloading online content, or you wouldn't be posting to slashdot. In short, there is nothing you can do with a kindle that you can't do without one. And trust me, it WILL NOT get you laid more often!

Re:No

[hedwards]

I don't know about your library, but the ones around here provide e-books through the website. You've got to install a DRMed Win program to use them, but I don't think you can use it with the kindle, which is going to cost you opportunities. I'm sure that's not a big deal to the Kindle audience, but it may be to some people.

Service for that is through http://www.netlibrary.com/ if anybody's interested, it may or may not be available in any given library system.

Waiting for the larger Kindle FU 2

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.idealog.us/2009/06/kindle-dx-now-shipping-amazon-launches-larger-kindle-fu.html

Kindle DX and PDFs

[proxima]

I seriously considered getting a Kindle DX, but after a little digging I found that it's not quite there yet for my use. So while I don't have personal experience with one, I did spend some time looking into it.

I'd love to eliminate the need to print PDF documents (like journal articles) for comfortable reading away from my computer. Once I heard that the Kindle DX supports PDF natively and has a large screen, I thought it might be perfect. Before prices were announced, I actually expected it to launch for $600 (comparable to the iRex Iliad). To my surprise, the price was cheaper.

As an added bonus, the free Whispernet (Sprint network) Wikipedia access has been expanded to include a rudimentary web browser. It would be unwise to buy a Kindle expecting this feature to remain free, though.

What's not made clear is that the PDF support has drawbacks. It cannot zoom, except to turn the device into landscape mode, which provides a small magnification. Fortunately, the software does automatically eliminate margins, making the screen about the right size for most documents. What's worse is that all of the annotation features available for ebooks and other documents do not work with PDFs; no highlighting, no note-taking, etc. I think it supports bookmarking, but that's it. For me, this is a deal breaker (at least until the price drops much further). I'm hoping that since this is a software limitation, it might be fixed with an update. I've learned not to count on feature additions in firmware until I see them, though, so I'm holding off on the purchase. Hopefully the price will drop before the end of the year anyway.

More strange is the method of firmware update. Apparently the Kindle 2 gets an update automatically if you leave Whispernet on long enough (usually overnight). I realize Amazon is doing this because they don't want users to need a computer and want to make things as simple as possible, but I would still strongly prefer user pull to Amazon push of content like software updates. Perhaps this behavior is configurable, I'm not sure.

I found it interesting that (at least some) newspaper subscriptions were made cheaper with the DX. If you save $4/mo on two subscriptions each, in about 18 months that will pay for the price difference between the Kindle 2 and Kindle DX. Since neither unit is sold retail, I don't have a very good sense of how comfortable they are to read from, or how annoying I would find the screen wipes (as the eink screens refresh the content). The good news is that the return policy from Amazon seems pretty reasonable, and you can return an opened unit within a few weeks for a full refund. If it supported annotations (and zooming might be important on some documents), that's how I would try it out. Until that's supported, or the price drops substantially, I'll just wait.

Re:Kindle DX and PDFs

[MyDixieWrecked]

It cannot zoom, except to turn the device into landscape mode, which provides a small magnification. Fortunately, the software does automatically eliminate margins, making the screen about the right size for most documents. What's worse is that all of the annotation features available for ebooks and other documents do not work with PDFs; no highlighting, no note-taking, etc. I think it supports bookmarking, but that's it.

Yeah, those are my only issues with it so far (I've had it for almost 3 weeks).

I haven't had a need to zoom on any PDF yet, but the feature would be welcome. It supports bookmarks, but all you can do is 'dog-ear' the page. You can't leave a note about the bookmark.

hopefully they'll remedy this with an update in the near future.

Re:Kindle DX and PDFs

[Doofus]

A couple of comments, from a "pleased DX owner" -

1) Amazon indicates that the Whispernet service is free. You make a good point that Amazon or Sprint may at some time in the future choose to charge for web browsing, but using the service to buy/sync/transfer documents will remain free. Nothing I've seen from Amazon indicates that they *will* charge for browsing, though.

2) In reading other posters' comments, it appears that PDFs - even those of the technical genus - render quite nicely. There are PDF capabilities missing from the DX that are standard on a computer - as you and others have pointed out, a software update may enhance these.

3) The DX is comfortable for *me* to read with. The screen "wipes" are no more disorienting than turning a page in a dead-tree book or changing pages in a web-based document, and in my experience take less than half a second. Reading e-ink is far more pleasant an experience than reading text on an LCD screen, and the bulk of one's time is spent reading, not refreshing, the screen.

If you know anyone with a Kindle (2 or DX), ask them if you can play with it for a short while. You may be surprised at how thoroughly you enjoy the reading experience.

Re:Kindle DX and PDFs

[Anonymous Coward]

It cannot zoom, except to turn the device into landscape mode, which provides a small magnification... What's worse is that all of the annotation features available for ebooks and other documents do not work with PDFs; no highlighting, no note-taking, etc.

Actually, there is a way to do that - you send your pdf to amazon, and they email back the converted pdf (converted to the amazon format). It can be done for free. While I agree it seems a hassle, and might defeat the purpose of native pdf support, it is an option if you really want it.

Definitely pricey, but enjoying it so far

[esw]

I'm not sure if it's worth the money for most, but I've been really enjoying mine so far.

The PDF reader works great for things like academic papers as long as moderately small fonts aren't a problem. Large PDF books don't work quite as well because links don't work on PDF in the current version. Some PDF slide decks work well, depending on the formatting - colored text on black background doesn't render well.

The built-in browser is OK. It's a nice novelty to be able to read wikipedia on this form factor of device.

wait.

[Anonymous Coward]

It will be selling for $100 or less in the near future.

I won't even think of getting one until I can get one in Target for much less. It'll happen. It has happened to every electronic gadget that has ever been produced.

I let the first adopters get soaked and deal with the bugs.

My captcha is "suckers" ...

Re:Dumbfuck Mods

[Locke2005]

Is it just me, or are responses to random nonsensical trolls getting more randomly nonsensical?

Kindle DX

[Locke2005]

...after a little digging I found that it's not quite there yet for my use. Yeah, greyscale sucks for porn, doesn't it...

Five hundred dollars?

[countertrolling]

Sure! that's worth it... If you got five thousand you can throw away. For some, it's not worth fifty bucks..

Re:Five hundred dollars?

[countertrolling]

I suppose I should add that, with DRM, it's not worth a dime. Don't buy restricted hardware.

Re:Five hundred dollars?

[EvanED]

You better not own a computer then, because it can run DRM'd software.

And in case you can't figure out what I'm getting at, just because you buy a Kindle doesn't mean that you have to use with DRM'd information. There are sites you can get non-DRM books from, and you can even get free books from Project Gutenberg and such, or read PDFs from an academic journal.

Re:Dumbfuck Mods

[oldspewey]

Is it just me, or are firstposts turning into a great big circlejerk?

Pleased DX Owner

[Doofus]

I own a DX - my mom and wife went in together on a Kindle 2 for my birthday, several days later Amazon announced the DX. Returned the K2 and got the DX a couple of weeks back. I have used it every day since receiving it, and have thoroughly enjoyed using it. Excellent reading device and experience. The DX simply allows me to read, without getting in the way.

Loading PDFs using USB is trivially easy; once, too rushed to plug the DX into my work laptop, I emailed a work-related PDF document to my kindle email address; $0.15 saved me a few minutes. Amazon will convert some documents to Kindle format via email if you cannot convert to PDF on your own. One downside on PDFs: have not figured out how to magnify other than rotating the DX. I cannot testify to complicated graphics, as I have not loaded any technical PDFs on my DX.

A few technical reviews I've found that you may find helpful:

http://www.matthewdavidwilliams.com/2009/06/12/technical-document-pdfs-on-the-kindle-dx/

CNET Review

Gizmodo Review

Hope this helps. There are other reviews out there.

Re:Pleased DX Owner

[nurb432]

Also, mobipocket will do your PDF conversions for nothing.

Tho i have to admit that native PDF would be MUCH better.

Re:Pleased DX Owner

[Zerth]

Amazon will do the conversion for free also. the charge is for transmitting over the cell network, if you use USB to transfer it,it costs 0.

Re:Pleased DX Owner

[nurb432]

Wasn't aware of that. Is their conversion any better then mobi?

Re:Pleased DX Owner

[Zerth]

I believe it is the same process, since Amazon bought mobipocket. Couldn't be much worse.

Re:Pleased DX Owner

[makisupa]

I received my DX a week ago now and am extremely pleased with it. PDF support is just fine - no zooming, no linking, no embedded video or HAL 9000 conversations either. It's fine for the PDFs you think it's gonna be fine for and likely not as fine for the ones you're suspicious about. Yes, symbolic stuff like math notation displays just fine - just not at microfilm resolution.

No, it won't zoom much - get a notebook if you want that. It's essentially a sheet-of-paper-emulator that the media has mistaken for a notebook. So if you'd expect to have to squint or hold the paper closer to your face on an economy-mode print of that PDF, expect the DX to struggle with it. All very common sense IMO.

This is a book reader that was made in the year 2009, not a holographic tricorder from 2020. It's primarily aimed at people who are satisfied with the written word in quantities exceeding the size of your typical AP story and who can sit quietly and just read for more than 30 minutes at a shot. Every dissatisfied Kindle review I've read tries to interpret the device in terms of the writer's politics (looking at you, DRM nuts) or some flashier gadget category, which has just reinforced my suspicion that reviewers are ADD children who just don't do much reading.

$500 is way too much no matter how good it is

[DrXym]

If I'm paying full whack for an e-reader I expect it to support all of the common book formats without prejudice. If the firmware integrates a store or a proprietary format as an extra then fine. This after all is how the iPod sold so well. Apple wisely ensured it played unencrypted MP3s and AACs first and foremost, complete with ripping software. The result was iPods sold through the roof and Apple coined it from integrated iTMS support.

I just don't understand who is stupid enough to buy a Kindle at full price considering how crippled it is. The device should be subsidized to reflect its proprietary nature or the software should be opened up to make it more useful. FFS even Sony (a company not exactly known for embracing standards) has a more open reader that costs less.

Even less fathomable is why publishers are letting the ebook market degenerate into competing formats, proprietary readers and possible market dominance by Amazon. One would think it is in their interest to come up with and dictate a single book format, one which all readers can implement, one which all stores can sell books with. It sounds obvious but a single format would level the playing field and catapult ebooks into the mainstream.

Re:$500 is way too much no matter how good it is

[maxume]

The publishing industry wants one-book one-device, something Amazon is currently going along with. Custom formats that can be derived from an EPUB formatted version of the book aren't going to significantly increase costs, mitigating the issues that come from fragmentation.

Re:$500 is way too much no matter how good it is

[hedwards]

It's worth noting that Apple refuses to license out their AAC DRM and never used WMA DRM, meaning that if you wanted the ITMS support back when it was DRMed, you had to have an iPod or be happy only playing via the computer. And no burning to CD to rerip really doesn't cut it. I'm still curious as to why the DoJ never looked into the obvious antitrust violations that represents.

Amazon is just a couple of steps worse than that.

Re:$500 is way too much no matter how good it is

[N7DR]

Even less fathomable is why publishers are letting the ebook market degenerate into competing formats, proprietary readers and possible market dominance by Amazon. One would think it is in their interest to come up with and dictate a single book format, one which all readers can implement, one which all stores can sell books with. It sounds obvious but a single format would level the playing field and catapult ebooks into the mainstream.

While one hears a lot about the Kindle (most US people who are even aware of the existence of e-book readers generally believe that the Kindle is the only one on the market), but once one digs through the hype to try to see what's actually happening in the industry, the situation is very different.

All the entities with interests in the classical publishing industry (meaning, mostly, authors, agents, and "classical" publishers) are thoroughly unsure how best to prepare for the tidal wave that is now in its early stages. There are lots of ways it could go, and most of the players are trying to cover as many possible outcomes as possible; no one that I know of is betting the farm on any particular outcome. So you'll see entities supporting the Kindle (if they're willing to agree to Amazon's (draconian, IMHO) contract) but they are generally aware of the dangers of turning Amazon into a monopoly; so you'll also see support for other readers (personally, I'm a fan of the Sony so far, but if they implement some kind of "publishers must pay to list a book on our store" policy, they will struggle to be more than a bit player eventually).

There are plenty of other possibilities too. Maybe we'll see more publishers creating their own online stores. Maybe more authors will do the same thing (depending on what contracts the authors are willing to sign anent digital rights). Maybe e-books will simply not take off (unlikely, I suspect, at least for some kinds of books). The whole "how does the author get paid if the marginal cost to generate a copy is zero" issue is the elephant in the room. Again, there are several possible answers, but which one(s) will prevail is anyone's guess at the moment.

In short, it's all in huge flux, and everyone right now is just trying to survive until things begin to be a bit clearer.

Just my opinion, of course. But I am a writer and publisher. On the other hand, I inhabit slashdot, so you know how much that means my opinion is worth.

Sorry I wandered a bit off topic.

Re:$500 is way too much no matter how good it is

[cdrguru]

The Kindle 2 supports a large number of e-book formats and it is possible to convert some more to the pretty common .mobi format. I have run a .LIT (Sony) to .mobi format conversion myself (free program) and the results were very good. The DX supports the same formats, plus PDF in a limited way.

The problem wtih PDF is that it is a page description langauge where the page layout has already been determined. OK, so how do you transform a generic PDF to a different page format? Short answer is, you do not. If the PDF consists of nothing but text, you might be able to extract the text and throw everything else away, but this works for such a limited number of PDFs that the Kindle developers chose not to even try.

So, the common on the DX is that if the PDF page fits on the screen and is readable like that, wonderful. Otherwise, it isn't going to be very pretty. A significantly better approach for the Kindle 2 is to convert the PDF to .mobi form and allow the device to display the text and illustrations as best it can, with text scaling and full reformatting. Does this work for all PDFs? No. PDF was designed as a page description language, not a e-book format and it does a very poor job of being an e-book format.

Re:$500 is way too much no matter how good it is

[Huntred]

I just don't understand who is stupid enough to buy a Kindle at full price considering how crippled it is.

The first step towards your understanding, if you are really interested, should be to consider the idea that other people have different priorities than you instead of just writing them off as stupid.

To start, you may want to read some of the comments around yours to see some of the clear, well-reasoned and easy to understand points posted by authors as to why the Kindle works well for them.

Re:$500 is way too much no matter how good it is

[Anonymous Coward]

I have an iRex DR1000S. Nice big eink screen. Very open - yes it runs LINUX. Stylus annotations. PDF etc. A few software quirks but I am very happy.

Re:$500 is way too much no matter how good it is

[brteag00]

If there was a "standard" eBook format, then I would agree with you. As much as there is one, though, it seems to be the .mobi / mobipocket format - which the DX reads as well. Actually, the Amazon .azw format is just the the mobipocket format with a different extension and a single bit flipped in the header. And then there's PDF support for full-page formatted documents, which works well (if subject to a few limitations as noted further up in the thread.) Frankly, I love my DX - it was expensive but I fully intend to get $500 of use out of it.

Re:$500 is way too much no matter how good it is

[spire3661]

The DoJ didnt look into it because APPLE HOLDS NO MONOPOLIES, MORON. Having a big marketshare DOES NOT mean you have a monopoly. Microsoft installed on 95% of all desktops(at the time of the DoJ anti-trust hearings) is a monopoly, Apple owning less then HALF the music market does not make a monopoly.

Re:$500 is way too much no matter how good it is

[demachina]

"Even less fathomable is why publishers are letting the ebook market degenerate into competing formats, proprietary readers and possible market dominance by Amazon."

Even less fathomable is why you need "publishers" once you fully reach the ebook era. The only necessary roll they play in the system is to publish books on dead trees. Good authors could easily start going direct to ebooks and completely cut publishers out of the system as long as they are willing to go without a dead tree version of their books.

Publishers play a roll in filtering out the crap but they also filter out stuff none of them like but at least a niche audience might find interesting. They play a roll in promotion which may still be necessary but in the Internet era probably isn't as importance as it once was.

Publishers are about as useful in the digital age as record companies.

Re:$500 is way too much no matter how good it is

[TUOggy]

How is it crippled? It can view PDF's natively (the most common format). Sure it has it's own format, as I'm sure every other ebook reader does too.

Amazon already dominates the market. Most people who buy books online go to Amazon. If they are an avid reader, and can save $10 per book, then buying this is definitely worth it seeing as how it will just take 50 books or so (a few months of reading for my girlfriend) to save in books what you pay for the reader. And because Amazon dominates the internet book market, publishers can't afford to not work with them. If they say that they are making an ebook reader and want the publishers to cooperate, the publishers have more to lose by not cooperating than Amazon has to lose (since there are so many other publishers that will work with Amazon).

Yes, the price is a little steep for me, but that's because I don't read a lot. Sure, I enjoy the occasional book, but usually not more than a couple per month.

Now, I needed something like this a few years ago when I was in school. If this was available when I was a freshman, then I would have grabbed this up fast so long as it gave me an opportunity to save on $150 textbooks. Sometimes you can't even get used textbooks for a reasonable price. When you spend $500-$800 per semester on textbooks, and start to realize how much beer that is, stuff like this looks like a nice alternative (assuming the textbook industry does start publishing in ebook format).

Re:$500 is way too much no matter how good it is

[shutdown -p now]

If I'm paying full whack for an e-reader I expect it to support all of the common book formats without prejudice.

It does just that.

FFS even Sony (a company not exactly known for embracing standards) has a more open reader that costs less.

I have a Sony reader. Can you name one open format that it supports, but Kindle does not?

Re:$500 is way too much no matter how good it is

[Icaarus]

Careful, I think you are confusing publishers with printing houses. The publisher (read or imprint of a major publishing house) is responsible for the final edit, cover design, distribution methods, typesetting, methods and size of publicity campaign and about a thousand other things I am forgetting. Some publishers own their own printing houses, others farm out, but either way there is a difference. As for 'independent' books, I will never, ever buy a book that has not been guaranteed to be edited. That would be like paying for alpha software. Publishers are a necessary evil, and the sooner they learn to adapt to the next evolution of literature distribution, (hopefully adopting e-pub) the happier I'll be.

As for the niche publishing thing, there are two reasons why a publisher chooses to not publish a 'good' niche book. The first is lack of perceived interest, if only 10 people are going to read it what's the point? The second is that it does not fit the publisher's image. Image is actually important, if I am going though a store, looking for a new author, and I see Tor I will probably give it a try, if I see Harlequin, probably not. I know of at least one person that would be the exact opposite of this, ao publisher's retaining their niche is just as important as active publicity. Back to the point about the lack of interest. If they are not printing anything then the significant incurred costs are in manpower, and not materials, so in fact we will see more publishers take risks with pushing out more ultra-niche titles as the industry transitions.

In the future I hope to go to a publisher's website, buy and download a couple of books, and upload them onto my e-reader, knowing that X% of my $$ is going to the author, upfront (preferably something like 45% and another 15% to the editor).

One final note, I was looking for a review on the DX, not a debate on whether the e-readers are worth it. I already know they are worth it for me, the question is the DX worth it for me. So I say Slashdot Fail.

Re:$500 is way too much no matter how good it is

[Icaarus]

Epub

Re:$500 is way too much no matter how good it is

[DrXym]

How is it crippled? It can view PDF's natively (the most common format). Sure it has it's own format, as I'm sure every other ebook reader does too.

The DX can view PDFs but other models can't. And none of them can view HTML, RTF, EPUB, LIT or DOC files. So yeah Amazon is trying its best to force people to use its own service. Even its own MOBI format is seriously broken not supporting things like tables and fixed fonts that render the format worse than useless for technical books.

BTW I don't give a shit if Amazon offers online converters for some of these or not. I don't want to have to pay Amazon to convert books to a format it should support natively. Some of my books may be purchased from other sites, or even proprietary / confidential and are therefore none of Amazon's business.

BTW the Sony Reader isn't perfect but its trying a hell of a lot harder than Kindle and costs less to boot. Why are people raving about the Kindle again?

Re:$500 is way too much no matter how good it is

[demachina]

Pretty much everything you posted is because your mind is stuck in the previous publishing business model.

You don't need typesetting, cover design, etc. As long as the author delivers their work in readable form for the ebook no one really cares about the rest of that stuff. Final edit might be nice but authors can get people to proof their books for them without selling their soul and a big chunk of their profits to the devil.

The whole point of niche ebook publishing is it doesn't exactly matter if only 10 people want to read it. As long as the author wants to write and some people want to read it, it should be available. I doubt an ebook publisher is going go for a book with a target market of 10 but at least some should go for works with a market of thousands assuming their overhead has been shaved to a minimum, and the book is delivered in a ready to distribute form by the author. As best I recall niche authors publish their own books all the time on dead trees, and that is a LOT more expensive to do than it is in the ebook era. Pretty sure I remember some books were self published that eventually turned in to major successes. No publisher would take them, author self published, and as people read it and passed them around they eventually became raging successes.

Publishers have all the same bad motivations to kill books that they don't think will be popular as record companies have. Record companies increasingly produce horrible music and artists who pander to lowest common denominator. I can think of nothing better than if we get to a situation where there is an ebook company that will publish just about anything and devise a system where readers decide what is good and bad instead of publishers. Yes you do need to keep the signal to noise ration high but I have my doubts publishers are any more the right way to do that than record companies.

Re:$500 is way too much no matter how good it is

[Icaarus]

You're right, I am stuck in the ideals of the previous business model. Someone comes up with an idea, writes a book, and submits it for review. Who the author submits to is based on the genre of the work, the location, and the size of publishing house. This submission is then reviewed, if there is something original and interesting about the work it is passed to an editor...

I firmly believe that an author should be paid for his or her work. Currently we must pay upfront for literature, and I for one am not willing to pay for something that has not been edited. I have read many independent works that are unedited, and many others that have been edited. The ones that were edited were infinitely better, and once they were edited by a professional, again the work was far more polished. I have no problem paying for that final product, once it is polished, but to pay for the first copy would not have been satisfying. Yes one great thing about e-readers is that to publish the publisher's minimum audience for any book drops from tens/hundreds of thousands to a few hundred (maybe a thousand). Which will in turn reduce the number of books that are dropped because they are good but believed to have little interest.

In summery, I will never pay for anything that has not been edited, just as I will never pay for music that has not been professionally produced. There are reasons for the existence of these constructs beyond your need to hate them.

P.S. While most of my reading is on a Sony 505, I still buy hardcovers of my favourite authors for my shelf.

Re:$500 is way too much no matter how good it is

[demachina]

Not sure I would say that I "hate" publishers. I just don't like gatekeepers on information who take the lion's share of the profits because they have the keys to the gate. The only reason they had the keys to the gate was because typesetting and printing on dead trees was expensive and out of the reach of each author. In the ebook era there is really no reason traditional publishers should continue to exert the control they have.

I see no reason authors couldn't have an editor work over their book for them and either pay the editor or give them a cut of the proceeds, a much smaller cut than a publisher takes. There is no reason in the ebook era for traditional publishers to continue to exert the dictatorial control they currently have, just like there is no reason record companies should. I don't think book publishing is as bad as music publishing since there are a lot more niche players with good heart and soul. The music publishing business has pretty much proved to be a complete and utter failure and needs to die in the digital age. Me personally I'd kind of like to see a profusion of new and innovative authors spring up in the ebook age and I'd like to see all the good ones get rich for their efforts, and not the leech publishers.

Re:$500 is way too much no matter how good it is

[Icaarus]

I went to a conference celebrating new and innovative authors, guess what it was hosted by a publisher which has an open submission policy. Publishers are not as bad as you make them out to be, especially the smaller ones. I will continue to support my favourite authors through publishers. And since when did a DX review commentary page involve music.
P.S. I like Capital Records.

Everyone here is a Liar! The DX is NOT SHIPPING

[Anonymous Coward]

The DX hasn't shipped yet, except for a few units for reviewers.

Re:Interweb.

[freeweed]

What are your thoughts on the term "irony"?

Re:Dumbfuck Mods

[Anonymous Coward]

You're new here, aren't you?

A dumb kind of product

[cjonslashdot]

I fail to see the logic in a book reader.

A book reader is a computer. Why not make it full-featured?

I would love to have a computer that had an e-ink (persistent) display, internet access, and could also read books, with the battery life of an e-book (with internet turned off).

Why purposely limit the machine to only being able to read books? It makes no sense.

Re:A dumb kind of product

[bignetbuy]

Clearly you haven't used a Kindle...

The Kindle2 and Kindle DX have Internet access. In fact, I'm using mine to correct your inaccurate statements right now. Oh, and my Internet access over Kindle is free. How much did you pay for yours? :P

As for that "purposely limiting" BS, would you wipe your arse with your mobile phone? No? Then why would you want the Kindle to become a full-fledged computer? Most netbooks have battery lives measured in hours. Kindle's battery life is measured in weeks. Most netbooks have to sit on something. The Kindle fits in your hand and is light enough to be carried all day long without strain.

The Kindle is an e-book reader with some helpful Internet features. It does its job well. Trying to turn it into something just so you can "see the logic" is silly.

Re:A dumb kind of product

[hedwards]

Part of it probably has to do with the fact that Amazon is picking up the tab on the wireless connection. I'm also not sure that the display is really designed to handle much more than just e-books.

Re:A dumb kind of product

[cjonslashdot]

No need to be rude here.

Thanks for correcting me that Kindle has Internet access. I did not know that, and you are right that I don't have one.

My point is still valid I think though. It is that the Kindle is a computer on the inside, so why not provide basic apps on it, and allow one to install more apps, just as an iPhone allows one to install more apps? I don't think that Apple thought, "the iPhone is a phone - no need to do other things on it." I would bet that if the Kindle allowed one to install more apps, just as the iPhone does, it would quickly become a more general purpose computer - with battery life of weeks. Now that is something I would buy.

Re:A dumb kind of product

[Provocateur]

At the risk of sounding redundant, check the form factor out (I've seen the Sony). If you don't have a computer, this would be secondary, especially at the wrong price point. But if you love to read, and value your eyesight, and already gotten a notebook/laptop, this is worth checking out. Battery goes for weeks and it's instant on--those are pros for me.

Re:A dumb kind of product

[cjonslashdot]

Will do. I will check it out.

I guess I am lamenting that if a device can be made this lightweight, with a battery that lasts for weeks, and it is actually a computer underneath, then how come we are being deprived of that as a computer? Why is it locked, so that we can't load new apps on it? I would like to have a computer that goes for weeks without recharging.

Re:A dumb kind of product

[jdhowe]

I don't think that Amazon is picking up the tab on the connection. Some of it may have been priced into the Kindle, but I am betting that some percentage of every purchase goes to Sprint for the bandwidth used to deliver the purchase.

Re:Dumbfuck Mods

[Anonymous Coward]

Seven.

academic not on amazon

[fermion]

I was looking at the Kindle to read journals. By and large the journals are not available through Amazon, but are available through the web, as text or PDF. I currently read these on laptop, but, to answer another question, the clamshell form factor does not always work when reading. I think I will buy a Kindle when the web browser is no longer beta, as that is my preferred method of getting my reading material.

Unless something better comes along. That is a device that does not waste real estate with a tiny useless keyboard. I would rather have a smaller device and have to use a touchscreen. After all, I won't be writing novels on it. I can almost read a book on my iPhone. An e-book reader with the area of three iphones would be perfect.

Re:Dumbfuck Mods

[Locke2005]

Wrong! The correct response is "42!"

Isn't the point that you can get published works?

[Colin Smith]

With the kindle?

whereas the only way to do that on the others is to illegally copy published works.

For Me It's Not Worth The Money

[Randwulf]

I do not own a Kindle DX and I never plan to buy one, either. I have pre-ordered an Always Innovating Touch Book: http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/ Based on what I've read on their site it can do a whole bunch more of what I'm personally looking for. Philosophically, it appeals to me more because the software and hardware are open source. Technologically, it appeals to me because I plan to tinker with it. Also, I've downloaded a bunch of free books from the net to see how it works as an ebook reader. This is my opinion. YMMV.

I like mine

[Brian Stretch]

Loading PDFs is trivial. The DX shows up as a standard USB flash drive, allowing you to drag and drop files into its Documents directory from any modern OS.

PDFs display well, though you'll want to turn the DX on its side to more closely approximate the width of a printed page. The DX can't reflow PDF text like it can with standard Kindle books. It became very obvious why Amazon didn't bother with PDF support on their smaller Kindles. Pragmatic Programmers offers their eBooks in .mobi format, so I redownloaded my existing library and copied the files over USB. Serious props to Pragmatic for being so... pragmatic. Manning's PDF books display well. O'Reilly, OTOH, adds huge and extremely obnoxious copyright headers and footers to their Safari PDF downloads that results in the actual book page being shrunk to a small illegible island in the middle of the screen. I've complained to O'Reilly about this, no word back yet. Outside of that inexplicable piece of design dysfunction every PDF I've thrown at the DX has worked well.

If you have trouble with eye strain like I do (Convergence Insufficiency, use the website to direct you to a clueful optometrist if you have trouble staying focused while reading or have vaguely ADD-like symptoms), the non-backlit Kindle screen is VERY nice. It's at least as easy on my eyes as paper, if not moreso due to the font flexibility.

You will want the Mighty Bright LED reading light Amazon recommends (requires 3 AAA batteries, not included), as well as the protective leather cover that Amazon should have included and you'll feel like a schmuck paying $50 for.

The Sprint-driven Whispernet wireless service is excellent. Being able to receive free book samples, read them, then purchase the full book from wherever I am (so long as I don't stray too far from civilization) is dangerously convenient.

I've very glad I waited for the DX over the smaller Kindle 2. If you have the cash, or have simply given up on paying off your credit card, I highly recommend it.

Re:I like mine

[Idiomatick]

"or have simply given up on paying off your credit card"

OH~ Say can you seeeeee. by the dawn's early light~... land of the freeeee~ and the home of the braaaaave.

Sorry, your sentiment moved me to a patriotic outburst.

Not Just No

[DynaSoar]

"From the academic-paper-reading-geek perspective, is it worth the money?"

HeeYELL no. IMO, papers are best read on paper. But with electronic journals coming to fore, you have to adapt. Those get sent as PDF to an email or similar account. Kindle doesn't do email and isn't paper. For $500 I can buy a laptop to do these things if needed, and still have enough for a major party.

Re:Not Just No

[Anonymous Coward]

Kindles all have email addresses. Two actually, one that charges and sends it to you wirelessly, one that is free and sends it to your computer for copying with the USB cable.

three words: flat file system

[stevenj]

As pointed out in this review:

You can move whole directories but the Kindle flattens them out listing every file (by file name) separately on the main home page.

You can't organize PDFs into directories on the Kindle, which makes accessing a large number of PDFs a serious problem. It's like 1984.

(The lack of PDF annotation capability is also a headache.)

Engadget's Review

[digitalderbs]

Engadget has a nice review. I was considering selling my Kindle 2 to get a DX -- I'm an academic who reads many multi-column PDFs -- but apparently the DX doesn't do this well :

Another puzzling design choice involves PDF support. For the most part it works well with standard size pages, but there's no zoom, so you're stuck with however the DX decides to display your file -- the only way to get things bigger is to switch to landscape. Since not all PDF pages fit on the screen, that means you often end up with a weird jumble of page breaks and cut-off content -- it's easy to totally lose the structure of a document or slide deck after a while.

It sounds like reading multi-columnar PDFs would be aggravating.If your PDF isn't multicolumnar, it's better suited for reformatting using Amazon's free PDF conversion service -- and these work on the Kindle 2.

They also complain about a hyper-sensitive orientation sensor, and an awkward keyboard.

Portable PC with epaper screen?

[xaxa]

At my workplace some staff work outside (in full sunlight) with various stuff -- currently tablet PCs and some handheld PCs. They're typically using Access databases on them. The problem is the screens aren't very good in bright sunlight (or even moderate sunlight).

I haven't seen one, but I think an OLPC would be perfect. Unfortunately, they aren't available in the UK.

Does anyone know of an alternative device with:
- A screen at least as big as a handheld PC
- That works fine in daylight
- Battery life of at least, say, 3 hours
- A standard OS (preferably Windows, much as I don't want to say that).
- A screen, preferably a touch screen
- Reasonable cost (say... £800 or less).

Re:Portable PC with epaper screen?

[stokessd]

Some of the panasonic toughbooks have "daylight friendly" screens. I haven't personally tried one, but they are well regarded. The older toughbooks that I have used have been very nice.

My wife and I each only a glossy screened laptop and the glossy screens work way better than the matt ones.

Sheldon

Re:Isn't the point that you can get published work

[Nakor BlueRider]

Not entirely true. It is possible to find legally purchasable published works elsewhere, including DRM-free versions (from some publishers anyway) that will work on any device.

I am happy with the DX, but it isn't for everyone

[volsung]

I picked up the Kindle DX on release day (much to my amazement, as I figured the initial stock would go entirely to preorders) and then took it on a 2 week trip. I'm quite pleased with it, although I definitely believe that it will only appeal to a narrow market.

Pros:

• The e-ink display really needs to be seen to understand the benefit. Over time, more and more of my reading material has become electronic, and I had not appreciated how much reading long documents on my backlit laptop LCD was leading to eye-fatigue. The result was that I tended to read on my laptop in short bursts, taking frequent breaks and losing focus. With a passive display like this, I find that I naturally read for longer intervals. Contrast is not as good as paper, but being able to read in direct light really changes your reading behavior.
• The form factor is perfect for full page document reading. A netbook or small laptop, while useful for other things, is a horrible document reader. The clamshell form factor is the wrong orientation for reading pages, and if you try to turn it to read in portrait mode, you have a keyboard sticking out the side for no reason. I tried reading with a sideways 12" laptop on the bus as a graduate student, and it was pretty annoying. Anyone suggesting a real computer as an alternative to the Kindle DX should at least begin with a tablet PC.
• As a reader, the software mostly gets out of your way. The power switch just puts the system to sleep, so you can pick up the DX and be reading where you were last in about 4 seconds. Your last location is remembered in all documents, as you would expect. More sophisticated controls would be nice, but aren't a deal-breaker.
• The built-in cellular data link is not spectacular, but gets the job done. I really enjoy being able to read something, then if I encounter an unfamiliar concept, I can just start typing a phrase and hit "wikipedia". xkcd's comment about the Kindle being our manifestation of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is very true.
• The browser is definitely limited, but very convenient when you are traveling. I don't have a fancy phone, so this is the only device I own which provides nearly universal Internet access. (Yeah, I'm late to the party.) Not having a stupid cell contract to use the web browser is a huge plus.
• Battery life and weight are good. I tend to leave the wireless radio on, but even with that extra drain, I normally have to recharge every few days. At 1 lb., it is the weight of a thin hardback. You won't read it for long periods by holding it out in front of your face (see "gorilla arms"), but it doesn't take much support to a corner or an elbow to comfortably hold it.
• Being able to read the first chapter of books free is kind of neat. I don't usually buy books for the Kindle with the store, because I consider DRM-crippled data to be disposable. It is a great way to find new books to buy in dead-tree format, though.
• PDF rendering works fine. I have encountered one image in one PDF that rendered strange, but otherwise viewing PDFs has met my expectations.

Cons:

• Some people say other readers have a better e-ink display. This is my first e-ink device, so I can't comment on that.
• If you are used to reading on an LCD, it will take you a little bit to adjust. The first thing I noticed when I got the DX is that I have very poor lighting in my apartment for reading. With a backlit display, I never noticed. However, the DX needs external light, just like paper. :)
• This is not a speedy device, nor a speedy internet connection. The browser is very slow, especially on complex websites.
• The economics of the cellular link are worrying. Since it is effectively pre-paid in the cost of the device itself, Amazon does not have a strong financial incentive to improve the built-in browser. More web use means more money they have to pay to Sprint on your behalf. You see the effects of this in o

Works great for commercial catalogs

[Anonymous Coward]

I bought a Kindle DX for reading and searching a large collection of commercial catalogs in PDF format.

It's just a bit slow with lots of graphics but otherwise clearly the future for commercial catalog and technical documents.

What catalog publishers need is software that puts out their existing catalogs in a Kindle optimized format.

Is anyone using the DX to read technical books?

[Giometrix]

I bought a Sony PRS-500 a couple of years back. The display is kind of small, which sucks because I tend to use it to read a lot of technical books which tend to be a lot bigger (e.g.the Apress Programming books) than the novels I think the device was meant to be used on. My work around right now is to use CutePDF to crop the books as much as I can... then I use Rasterfarian to split all of the pages in half (the program essentially takes a screenshot of each page) and convert to the reader's format. This process is a little annoying, and makes the reading experience sub-optimal (but still an OK experience). Because page turning is a little slow, with this technique it gets a little tedious having to turn 2x the pages. The DX look like it can streamline the entire experience for me... but since I can't go to the store and try one out I'm little hesitant (especially since I already have a reader). Does anyone with a DX use the device to read larger PDF books? How is the experience?

Re:Dumbfuck Mods

[Anonymous Coward]

There are two options: 1. yes, bullshit gets modded up and truth gets modded down or 2. no, you are just confused about what is bullshit and what is truth. I'm guessing 2 but with a large dollop of 1. Mod points are available to everyone, after all.

I have 801 tchnical PDFs on my DX

[Doug Jensen]

I have several thousand technical documents ranging from hundreds of pages to a dozen pages. I have been carrying them around with me on a 500GB portable USB hard drive, connecting that to my laptop or a public computer. I got 801 of them on my DX before it filled up, so now I am in the process of triaging all my PDFs to get the most important ones on the DX. I have no problems at all reading them, even the mathematics-intensive ones. Something I thought of after I bought the DX: hey, now I can easily have with me the PDFs of all (a couple hundred) of the journal and conference papers I have published. One obvious use is for employment interviews (I'm just saying) without having to tote my laptop -- the show-and-tell experience is totally different and cool. Well worth the price for my purposes.

No, I'm New Here

[New Here]

No, I'm New Here

Re:Dumbfuck Mods

[ILongForDarkness]

Yes but what was the question?

I don't see this as a print substitue

[dmomo]

When I print out a PDF, I don't just read it. I deface it with a pen. I take notes, circle things, draw boobies, etc. If the kindle was also a tablet, and I could annotate... I may have a use for it. I'm waiting for the Kindle / live-scribe hybrid.

Re:I don't see this as a print substitue

[SnarfQuest]

When I encounter the canine beverage dispenser, oftimes I find myself at a loss for perforated tissue paper in the appropriate dispensor. At those times, I find that carefully removing several sheets from whichever dissertation I am currently persuing will quickly allow me to resume my current endeavours. Until an e-book provides an equivelent capability, they will be unusable for my purposes.

Re:Why not a laptop? INKJET APPROACH BAD BUS

[Nom du Keyboard]

I think Amazon should move to the inkjet approach of giving away the initial hardware and then making money on the refills. I wouldn't mind paying $5-$10 for a new bestseller (as long as it didn't crash/timeout and disappear on me) but the initial investment is rather daunting.

This would really prove a drag on Amazon profitability.

Currently with Kindle books (in my somewhat informed information) Amazon takes approximately 40% of the list price of the book as their profit, and any discount from list comes our of their 40% profit. The publisher/author receive the other 60%. Out of the 40% Amazon pays for all setup costs and listing costs, storage of the Kindle book on their server, wireless bandwidth to deliver it, any payment fees from credit card/Paypal purchases, the cost of maintaining the website, paying their employees, showing a profit, and keeping the lights on.

Now in addition to that you want them to give away an expensive piece of hardware at a huge loss, hardware that people can quite usefully use without ever buying Kindle book from Amazon. The numbers just don't add up.

If I were running Amazon (and if it were still in business after being run by me), the way I'd discount the Kindle would be to keep the price at where people are willing to buy all that they are already producing and offer a coupon with it worth, say, $75 in the Kindle store. Amazon would recoup some of that coupon value out of their profit percent when used, it would introduce the buyer into how easy shopping at Amazon can be, and some people would never use it costing Amazon nothing from them.

But for now, as long as Kindle continues to sell I fail to see why Amazon should reduce the price a single cent. That's Business!

PRS-505

[commodoresloat]

Funny, I played with one of these in Borders and it seemed like a piece of crap to me. The screen was decently readable but not all that better than a black and white LCD screen -- it certainly didn't make me think "digital paper is here!" But it was nevertheless quite readable; what really pissed me off was the software. Navigating text in any way other than turning pages seemed difficult, and even that took an unusually long time. Perhaps the model I played with had been abused already so it wasn't working up to snuff; what is the reaction time when you turn pages or move from book to book? I thought it would be incredibly frustrating to actually try to read a book or long article with this device.

Re:PRS-505

[shutdown -p now]

what really pissed me off was the software. Navigating text in any way other than turning pages seemed difficult, and even that took an unusually long time. Perhaps the model I played with had been abused already so it wasn't working up to snuff; what is the reaction time when you turn pages or move from book to book?

It's an inherent limitation of current eInk technology. Since it involves physically manipulating small black and white particles of matter to form the image (which is why it doesn't require any energy to maintain once it's formed, leading to those long battery times), the refresh rate is very slow, on the order of 0.5-1s. They're working on it - older readers had 1.5-2s, so it's getting better bit by bit.

In general, this doesn't cause any trouble when reading fiction books, since you rarely need to do much but flip pages back & forth there. It can be annoying with heavily cross-referenced technical literature, though.

Re:PRS-505

[commodoresloat]

Thanks for that explanation - I didn't know this. Even half a second is a pretty long refresh rate for turning pages -- I'll most likely be waiting until the technology matures.

Re:PRS-505

[shutdown -p now]

Something to consider, however: you probably waste about as much time (if not more) to turn pages in a paper book.

But, yes, in general, the tech is still in its infancy. The first commercial eInk reader - Sony Librie - was released in 2004, and that one was Japan-only. At the moment, both color depth (16 levels of grey) and DPI (~160) in production models, while adequate for many tasks, leave a lot to be desired. Prices for the screens (and, consequently, for the devices) are high mostly for the same reason. If you buy one today, you will definitely become an early adopter, with all the inconveniences this entails.

Simple answer: No (I returned mine)

[erleellis]

From one academic-paper-reading-geek to another: Don't waste your time with the Kindle DX. I am a professor and did order one- with very high hopes of going beyond paper! To warn others, I also posted a review of my experience with the Kindle DX on my blog: http://ecotope.org/blogs/post/Kindle-DX-Not-ready-for-Academic-users.aspx But there was no way to really use the thing the way you need to if you are an academic-paper-reading-geek! I returned it after about a week. Maybe next year there will be a machine with the right stuff! I hope so!

1984??

[commodoresloat]

You can't organize PDFs into directories on the Kindle, which makes accessing a large number of PDFs a serious problem. It's like 1984.

You mean it's like a boot stomping on a human face over and over forever??

Re:1984??

[stevenj]

I was thinking of the (thinly disguised) flat file system that shipped on the original Macintosh in 1984.

PDF is not supported

[Greg_J7]

I am amused (annoyed at Amazon?) that people think the Kindle supports PDFs. Adobe created PDF to have a portable way of exactly representing documents. The Kindle converts PDF documents into HTML as best it can, and sometimes it does well enough. But PDF has Postcript rendering as an embedded capability, and HTML does not. All the math symbols in a book I am publishing (which I have in PDF format) do NOT convert either with Amazon's Kindle converter, or Adobe Acrobat 8's HTML converters. In other words, I would have to find all the unconvertable parts of the book and manually create images out of them. It's not what I call PDF support!

Re:PDF is not supported

[jdhowe]

That is true for the converter that Amazon uses if you send PDFs in for conversion. However, the Kindle DX has a native PDF viewer which does not require conversion. It does a remarkable job. I can even read my electronic versions of Scientific American, other electronic magazines, and my academic journals with no conversion and no problems at all.

Re:PDF is not supported

[Greg_J7]

mmm. Apparently I am missing a key piece of information. When I go to upload my PDF at Amazon "for publishers", it does not give me the option not to convert. How do I publish my book so that it will rely on the "native PDF viewer?"

Re:PDF is not supported

[synaptik]

I believe your respondent was referring specifically to the Kindle DX... in your original "PDF is not supported" posting, you only mentioned Kindle. As I understand it, the DX model has better PDF support than the earlier Kindle models. However, it sounds as though on the DX you still cannot annotate PDFs or search them en masse.

My Wife Loves her DX, I like mine...

[Anonymous Coward]

Random thoughts from an owner.

My Wife Loves her DX, I like mine. We read a lot, ePub, Mobie, and a alot of PDF's. It is heaver than the Kindle 2, but she just makes the font bigger an leaves in on her lap.

Scanned images? No problem, wrap them in a PDF wrapper and drag them into the Documents dir. They do need to add a better zoom.

Case? We wanted to keep the weight down so she purchased the Neoprane DX Case for $15 (ASIN: B0029LXHIK) I got the other one ASIN: B002A92QTC (in blue)

The Stanza desktop will convert almost any format to any other ebook format, including Mobie http://www.lexcycle.com/

If you have a ebook from http://www.pragprog.com/, get it in PDF and mobi to compare the difference. I like mobi better when given the choice.

Re:$500 is way too much no matter how goPUBLISHERS

[Nom du Keyboard]

Even less fathomable is why publishers are letting the ebook market degenerate into competing formats, proprietary readers and possible market dominance by Amazon. One would think it is in their interest to come up with and dictate a single book format, one which all readers can implement, one which all stores can sell books with. It sounds obvious but a single format would level the playing field and catapult ebooks into the mainstream.

You don't understand small publishers -- I do because I sell through one.

eBook publishers will seek to get their eBooks listed everywhere they can be sold. Because there is no upfront publishing costs for an eBook and minimal setup fees, you just shotgun the book out as widely as possible, and in every salable format. Setting up multiple formats isn't all that hard with modern tools and publishers are format agnostic as a result.

The current biggest eBook retailers are: Fictionwise (now part of B&N, who absolutely doesn't deserve to be given their shitty service and doubly-shitty treatment of authors and publishers, but they're big and still generate a lot of sales), Amazon, and Google is looking to become a big player soon. You do your best to sell to all of them, as well as a couple dozen smaller sites that may generate less sales each, but from whom it all adds up in the end.

That's the eBook publishing business today. You can rail against it, or play by its arcane rules and modestly profit from it.

As for readers, it has never been better. A whole lot of stuff is published in eBook form that you never would have had access to before - and at cheap prices. You have a variety of bookstores, dedicated eBook readers, computer-based readers, smart phone and iPod readers to choose from. Competition exists to keep prices under control.

So don't blame the publishers for the current state of affairs. In the end it's up to the consumer to pick the winner(s) and loser(s).

Oh, and this author says to buy from anyone other than Fictionwise. In their latest twist, they've just taken away their real-time sales reports from the publishers and told them to wait for audited end of quarter reports to know what their sales were for that quarter because the real-time data was apparently reporting sales up to 25% higher than publishers were being paid for at the end of the quarter. Two sets of numbers didn't agree and they paid the lower one (big surprise there). And complaints about their Customer Service are becoming legendary. If you have an alternative to Fictionwise for your purchases I would encourage you to vote with your feet and wallets until they can clean up their act. Anyone who has worked with numbers on computers knows that two reports proporting to report on the same data will never agree, but a full 25% is well outside the bounds of reasonable error.

Re:$500 is way too much no matter NEED PUBLISHERS

[Nom du Keyboard]

Even less fathomable is why you need "publishers" once you fully reach the ebook era.

Publishers are about as useful in the digital age as record companies.

You need publishers because you cannot get on sites like Fictionwise (biggest current eBook seller) as an individual, and that's where people are buying eBooks. While I recommend not dealing with Fictionwise in my above post (worth reading why), you can't just show up at a lot of big sellers yet, eBook in hand, and make your fortune by having them list it for you. They deal with established publishers, and they set what terms they want to define what makes for an established publisher.

And why don't they want to deal with your as an individual? The costs are simply too high. They have to list your books, deal with complaints about them if they contain inappropriate material (i.e. stuff publishers filter out if they want to remain listed), provide quarterly royalty reports and send out checks with those reports. For a publisher they send out one check for the publisher to distribute according to that publisher's contracts with its writers. They don't want to have to deal with thousands of individual authors when they can keep it down to a few dozen publishers instead.

If you want to find a publisher that suits your particular topic matter and want a relatively impartial listing, I recommend visiting Piers Anthony's Internet Publishers page. He has dealt with a lot of publishers over his long writing career, fought with many of them, and can provide a lot of information on where you might want to start.

Re:$500 is way too much no matter NEED PUBLISHERS

[demachina]

They probably had all the same complaints about software until Apple proved them wrong with its app store. Why do all these arguments apply to books but not to apps for the iPhone?

Sure there are ebook publishers that wont tank works from an individual now but all that does is open up a market for a low overhead ebook publisher who will.

Kindle relative costs

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a huge backlog of pdfs that I've been meaning to get to, somewhere on the order of 15,000-20,000 pages of articles, white papers, tutorials and documentation.

Personally, I can't stand reading on computer screens for long periods of time. So for larger documents I will either print it out or not read it at all.

I actually looked into doing some bulk printing at kinkos, but it is not cost effective. You get a discount on per page price after 1000 sheets, but even with the discount, printing everything out at kinkos would be substantially more expensive that getting a kindle dx, and would be a short term solution that would not scale.

As far as the $500 price tag goes, its cheaper than printing at kinkos, and its more expensive than a cheap laptop, but reading on laptop screens doesn't work for me, so I don't really see a comparable product in the same price range. At the same time, the $500 price tag ($700 with associated costs as pointed out) is the only reason I don't have a kindle dx. Convincing the wife that I need an expensive toy to read books when I already have books to read hasn't gone over so well, but in the long term I see it as the best, most portable, most scalable solution to reading and storing the huge amount of pdfs I have on my reading list. And its 'Green' to boot, gotta save those trees!

No, it's not worth the money

[melted]

And it won't be worth the money even if it give it away for free until:

1. I can resell a book on the secondary market (i.e. it gets removed from my Kindle and loaded onto somebody else's.
2. I can have only one account with access to all purchased books and newspaper subscriptions for the entire family.
3. Don't have my book access depend on whether my Amazon account is active (i.e. Amazon cancels my account and I can't read my books anymore).
4. I can loan a book to a friend. It's OK if it gets disabled on my Kindle for as long as it's "borrowed".
5. Can return a book to Amazon if I don't like it.
6. Can borrow books from the library with it.

Hear that, Jeff? Get cracking on it.

Re:No, it's not worth the money

[jdhowe]

With the exception of point 1 and 4, most of what you are writing is patently false. 2. You can load a book on up to six Kindle devices. You can send an issue of a newspaper or magazine to any of the devices and they will be readable on each of them, ï 3. Your book purchases do not depend on having an active Amazon account. 5. You can return any ebook purchase to Amazon within 7 days for a full refund. 6. That is a problem with your library system and with the publishers, not the Kindle. The Kindle can read many, many book formats. You can also purchase download free books from many sources. There is nothing to stop library systems from creating subscription or time-limited access to books, other than the book publishers and author associations. I would say that you are the one who should get cracking and write some letters!

Re:No, it's not worth the money

[melted]

#2: http://www.teleread.org/2009/06/22/device-limits-fuzzy-on-downloads-for-kindle-books-if-so-should-the-ftc-investigate/

And a Kindle wielding friend of mine was complaining that newspaper subscription he uses is limited to one device, too. Which is insane.

#3: http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44350&highlight=amazon+banning

This dude now has a $350 door stop.

#5: Yes, my bad.

#6: That still doesn't change the fact that until this problem is addressed (and Amazon has enormous leverage here, while I personally don't), Kindle will not be able to replace books for me.

you are mistaken bout it's capabilities

[Anonymous Coward]

it doesn't have it's own proprietary format, it uses the same format the the palm uses. several other book readers use it, so if anything amazon should be praised for selecting one of the more common formats.

there are many converters out there that will convert things to this format.

it is very happy using unencrypted, no DRM documents. you can get them on the kindle either over wispernet (e-mail them to the kindle for 0.15 or so per MB), or via USB

for that matter, I've read that the DRM that the kindle uses on the books they sell you has long since been brokern, and there are tools available that will strip out the DRM, leaving the document otherwise untouched.

Re:Why not a laptop? It's Called Progress

[Anonymous Coward]

You should have just pointed to this
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/3/9/ (PennyArcade)

Kindle is proprietary (Evil)

[Anonymous Coward]

The Kindle is proprietary in that Amazon refuses to support the prevailing defacto standard format for ebooks. That's a joke in this day and age. Get a Sony if prefer open source format support.

For those complaining about PDF support in ebooks, please try and create your own algorithm for unwrapping the pre-laid-out text/graphics layouts and see how far you get. The answer is to have books published in [standard] ebook formats so we don't have to convert PDFs. Even Adobe has figured that out, though it being built into the PDF format going forward, further diluting any potential standards.

What's needed is a ebook format (pretty much exactly like the open/free ePUB format that Kindle refuses to support) that completely supports and presents non-proprietary standard ebook documents, so that you and I don't have to depend on impossible PDF conversions if you want to read a book you already have.

In a nutshell promote ePUB readers, not Kindle.

Re:Dumbfuck Mods

[HermMunster]

I read those comments and thought that about Digg.com. There was a recent eval of digg.com and it looks like there is significant evidence of astroturfing and maybe from Microsoft sponsored addresses.

Sony finally got it

[russotto]

The thing about the Kindle and the earlier Sony reader is there's a lot of space taken up by stuff that's not screen. To me, that's a problem. I want my e-book to be as much screen as possible, tempered only by the fact that I have to hold it. The REB-1100 (RocketBook successor) is good for this. You've got a handle with two buttons (page forward and back), and the rest is a touch screen. The newer Sony looks like they may have the right idea as well, but I've not seen one in person. I really like the REB-1100, but it has some flaws -- the big one is a black-and-white low resolution screen. But IMO $350 is too much for a reader.

Contrary to popular opinion, e-ink isn't the only way to get a screen readable in direct sunlight. The REB-1100 has a screen which can be used either backlit or reflective, so it's readable indoors or out. I think this is part of what limits it to 1-bit depth though.

Re:Sony finally got it

[OrangeTide]

Kindle: 8" x 5.3" x 0.36"
REB 1100: 7" x 5" x 1.5"

A .3" difference in width is not an overwhelming difference. Especially when you consider the Kindle 2 is nice enough to give you page turn buttons on both sides so you can switch hands. Currently the displays for eInk have an issue which requires a large bezel to make room for the connectors and things. As they become more LCD like we'll see displays with less wasted space, to the point that we'll complain that we can't hang onto them without getting fingerprints on the screen.

Given that the REB's dimensions are similar (when you discount Kindle's keyboard) I can make an educated guess that they have the same issues with the Thompson displays that Amazon has with the eInk displays when it comes to industrial design.

There are lots of solutions for readability in direct sunlight. They are fewer solutions for both low power and readability in direct sunlight. And there are even fewer still for maximum readability in normal indoor light. eInk wasn't chosen by Amazon and Sony because it is a buzzword, or because the eInk company has great marketing. But it was chosen because electrophoretic displays are the only viable option for these devices. There are several factors to consider, readability and low power which I mentioned. But also a price point that makes it practical for a consumer device. And a page turn speed that a user would find acceptable. I've seen some other non-EPD e-paper technology that takes several seconds to "wipe" a display. And a concern that vetos all others, is the capacity for it to be manufactured in sufficient quantities. If a vendor cannot supply the millions of displays necessary for Sony and Amazon, then there is essentially no point in designing it into a consumer electronics device.

I'm not saying REB 1100 is not interesting, it is. But the industrial design, in my strong opinion, is inferior to Kindle 2's. You might not like a keyboard, but it is there to justify the built-in cellular data connection. Without text entry searching the store for books to grab "instantly" would be tedious or require a touch screen that greatly sacrifices image quality. I think the keyboard is a compromise, but an easily explained one. It's not some wild fantasy of out of control designers, it at least serves a specific function, even if it's not very sexy.

Versus a netbook with rotated display ?

[knorthern knight]

Most people agree that reading a document in landscape mode is difficult. The linux command "xrandr" allows you to rotate the displayed image on the screen, although you do need to set a virtual window. E.g. on an EEE set a virtual display to 600x1024, viewport 1024x600, and then rotate the image to the left or right, and it should fill the entire screen. I assume something similar can be done with Windows. This handles the landscape/portrait issue.

With Adobe, and xpdf in linux and Foxit in Windows, PDF support is much better, including zoom to fit page, or zoom in on small sections. You can get a screen size that suits you, from 9" to 11.6" netbooks for under $500. Plus you have a fully functional netbook. Battery life and reding in direct sunlight are the only problems I see.

Re:I am happy with the DX, but it isn't for everyo

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it 0.15cents per MB or 15 cents per MB?

Re:I am happy with the DX, but it isn't for everyo

[volsung]

oops. 15 cents/MB

Custom firmware project?

[jayegirl]

In a lot of the above comments, the primary source of dissatisfaction seems to be the firmware. Given that Amazon is doing firmware updates over the air, writing custom firmware should be possible without even having to crack the device. Anyone have any data in this regard? What does the Amazon EULA have to say?

Re:I am happy with the DX, but it isn't for everyo

[Luke O'Connell]

Thanks for that volsung, a really detailed post. I've been thinking about picking up a DX for a while now, so this article really got my attention. I really WANT one of these things, and am just trying to justify NEEDING one. It's a slow process, especially with a $500 price tag and no immediate availability, but I'll get there :).

DX owner, electrical engineer -- use it, love it

[Anonymous Coward]

I got my Kindle the day after it launched. I absolutely love it! The best part about it, and the reason I was willing to blow $600 on the thing is full-page PDF support. As an electrical engineer, I have to read *tons* of parts data sheets. Before, if I wanted to take them somewhere to work on... (lunch, anybody?)... I'd kill a tree printing things off. Now I take the Kindle and a notebook.

There's no special software -- before lunch, I plug the Kindle in, drop some PDFs onto it like a USB thumb drive, unplug and go. Couldn't be simpler.

Admittedly, some of the lower-quality data sheets are a problem. For some, I find that you have to zoom in beyond 100% in Acrobat Reader anyway, and since the Kindle doesn't zoom, those figures aren't legible. I don't think that's terribly bad, though, because if it were printed, it would be microscopic anyway, and this whole ebook thing is about replacing paper, right?

If the PDFs that you want to read were reasonably well-authored, I'd say go for it! (an example of a well-authored PDF: http://cds.linear.com/docs/Datasheet/3558.pdf )

Foxit E-Slick PDF Reader

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone have one of these? Comes from the makers of the top non-Adobe PDF reader software. It looks like it will be the answer for those (man) of us that require offline access to our PDF libraries. Being Foxit, I expect them to make a product without all the hubbardry and DRM that we see with stuff like Kindle. Would love to hear from anyone who might have used an E-Slick.

Re:I am happy with the DX, but it isn't for everyo

[Anonymous Coward]

Jean-Luc drank tea, earl gray, hot... :)

My own review of the Kindle DX ...

[darkuni]

I think my review could answer some of your questions ... offering a more compare/contrast with the Kindle 2. http://monroeworld.com/reviews/review.php?id=15 In short, if PDF is your biggest draw - I would wait for some firmware updates before making the jump.

I quite like the Kindle DX

[admiral201]

I purchased the original Kindle a few months after it came out and was supremely underwhelmed. I ended up disliking the DRM (I can't view the books on my computer? I can't print them? I can't sell them to someone else?) and so it became nothing but a glorified New York Times reader. The screen was too small, the page turns too frequent (although they ceased being annoying after about an hour or two of use), and the lack of PDF made it of very limited use.

For some reason, despite my recommendation to everyone not to buy a Kindle, I nonetheless bought the Kindle DX. I think I just wanted to give Jeff Bezos another try, despite his hypocritical (OK, pragmatic) attitude on DRM.

The Kindle DX is great. I still won't buy any DRM books from Amazom, but here are the major pluses:

• PDF works, very, very well. I only found one book so far which wouldn't render - a very pretty, multicolor Organic Chemistry textbook (Original PDF, not scanned PDF).
• The large screen is an absolute joy. It's like reading a hardback with small print, which is just what I like. And, when it's dark or I'm not wearing my glasses, I can up the type size to keep it readable in any situation.
• Newspapers are easier to read than the original Kindle. And, since you are probably like me in that you toss the issues when you're done, not having to do that saves time and effort. It's also a lot easier to read on the subway.

The Kindle DX does have a few drawbacks from the Kindle v1:

• No expansion memory or swappable battery. Clearly, following Apple's (poor) lead here.
• Does not automatically save each issue of the New York Times. I have to tell it to keep each issue individually, or it will auto-delete them. It's digital data; I plan to archive it permanently. (I paid for it, after all.)
• Newspapers are locked to a single Kindle. You can't read the NYT on your iPhone and the Kindle, and if you lose the Kindle you have, you can't read the files on another Kindle.

The bottom line is that the PDF support is the game changer. I have quite a few documents in PDF that are now a joy to read (including my own LaTeX files). Want to read about Sotomayor from the CRS? Download the PDF to the Kindle. Too lazy to read WikiLeaks in Preview (or Reader, etc.)? Read it on the Kindle.

The other complaints relate to price. Amazon does not sell a "Print + Kindle" book bundle for a reasonable price (say a buck or so above print price), although I think they should. I would buy everything that way if I had the choice. Additionally, the Kindle book prices are way too high. $7.99 for a print book, or $7.99 for a Kindle book? Really? Even $9.99 (their "bestseller hardcover" price) is too much for a book you are basically renting until Amazon decides to cancel your account (which they have done, and causes you to lose access to all your books once your Kindle breaks). And there is no way I'm going to pay more than that for a technical/physics/chemistry book (which are the majority of my purchases from a dollar perspective if not volume).

Still, if only for the PDF, larger screen and and New York Times ($14/month Kindle vs. about $30/mo print), I finally actually like the Kindle and recommend the DX to anyone else who would avoid buying any Kindle books from Amazon.

Cheers!

Re:Dumbfuck Mods

[isama]

w-h-a-t i-s s-i-x t-i-m-e-s n-i-n-e?

I love scrabble!

Pocket PC

[twoHats]

Personally, I like a pocket PC with uBook - i have bad eyesight, and have been using my Dell Axim (i am sure any Mobile PC will work)for years - uses sd cards or USB for xfer - displays many protocols. just my $.02

democratic censorship

[Anonymous Coward]

did that post make you feel any better?

If you want to see modding tyranny in action, try digg.com

Re:I am happy with the DX, but it isn't for everyo

[JamochasWitness]

Another con regarding the web browser, and I think it's a BIG ONE:

It doesn't appear to handle cookies correctly during redirects (HTTP 3xx). Since a lot of login sites use this technique, they simply do not work with the kindle browser, and this includes most webmail (including outlook varieties). gmail.com seems to work OK, but I think they are using javascript cookies during login. I was extremely disappointed with this limitation. But, as others mentioned, this device is for reading text, not surfing, and I like it well enough to keep it, regardless. I've heard from other owners that login sites used to work (i.e., cookies were handled correctly)... I wonder if this is just a new bug, or worse, it was introduced intentionally! BTW, facebook sort of works if you login with the HTTP option; but the cookies don't stick which means you often have to re-login whenever you post status updates or comments, which is very annoying.

clues for the clueless

[vaporland]

My point is that books have no DRM, and Kindle is great for Amazon, but not so much "for the rest of us".

Sure, I can google how to break the DRM if I really want to be bothered, but if I want to lend the book to my technically clueless friends, it's another PITA step I'd rather avoid. You also get into the whole hopscotching stupidity cycle of "update OS" / "break DRM" / "update OS" / "break DRM".

As much as I hate DMCA, I have more than a few friends (and employers) who see breaking DRM as stealing. Surprisingly, most of them are in IT. I try to convince them otherwise, but they don't see it my way, so we agree to disagree and I get to keep my job.

It seems much more clueless to pay $500+ for supporting a monopolist's shiny locked book reading box. I guess this thing would more or less kill libraries and the whole concept of fair use, which is why I won't buy one. Amazon is already strong-arming content creators; see this excerpt from Dallas Morning News Publisher and CEO James Moroney during a Senate hearing on antitrust:

"The Kindle, which I think is a marvelous device, the best deal Amazon will give the Dallas Morning News--and we've negotiated this up to the last two weeks--they want 70 percent of the subscriptions revenue. I get 30 percent, they get 70 percent. On top of that they have said we get the right to republish your intellectual property to any portable device. Now is that a business model that is going to work for newspapers? I get 30 percent and they get the right to license my content to any portable device--not just ones made by Amazon?"

Thanks, but I'll pass for now...

FYI, not as clueless as you infer. When I was doing assembly-level programming on 370 mainframes, maybe you were still in daycare?