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Microsoft Readies a Rival To Spotify

Posted by kdawson on from the never-step-twice-into-the-same-stream dept.

Barence writes "Microsoft has confirmed it is preparing to launch a music streaming service. The service will be a direct rival to Spotify, hugely popular in the UK (but unavailable in the US), which allows users to stream music for free in return for listening to around a minute's worth of advertisements every half hour. 'It will be a similar principle to Spotify but we are still examining how the business model will work,' said Peter Bale, executive producer of MSN." The article claims that the new service will boost the popularity of the Zune player, though how this is to happen is not explained. There doesn't seem to be a close tie-in between device and service, as there is between the iPod and the iTunes Store.

216 comments

  1. Microsoft feeling the pinch by QuantumG · · Score: 1

    Just how relevant are they these days?

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    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by bakuun · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Pretty relevant I'd say, seeing as it's the largest software company in the world.

    2. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They still suck.

    3. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by QuantumG · · Score: 3, Insightful

      umm.. Chrysler is one of the biggest car companies in the world.

       

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    4. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft got this far by being absolute bastards when they're playing the underdog. To simply write them off is a mistake. If they are becoming irrelevant only vigilance is going to keep it that way!

    5. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by religious+freak · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And I'll say, if they can get this right, they deserve to be the biggest. Music could be dealt with so much better than it is, in terms of business and technology. If I could listen to a measly 1 minute of commercials for 30 minutes of music that I choose, and didn't have to pay for, and not break the law, I'd do it.

      Yeah, I could just download whatever I want off of TPB or whatever, but I don't do it - not only because I don't want to break the law and get sued, but because I still don't personally feel comfortable consuming something which I did not pay the artist for. (Don't jump down my throat, I'm not judging those who choose to do it, but I'm just saying for myself no matter how I justify it, I'd be getting something for free which I shouldn't).

      Get some good, targeted ads, make arrangements with the labels, and get this going in a good direction once and for all. Oh, and making the Zune not be an ugly piece of shit would help too.

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    6. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? Because they entered a new market? Yeah, the company with a 90% market share, with competitors that define themselves as being "not microsoft", they are totally irrelevant today!

    7. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by bakuun · · Score: 3, Insightful

      umm.. Chrysler is one of the biggest car companies in the world.

      And ExxonMobil is one of the largest companies overall. So what? Chrysler may have financial difficulties - Microsoft certainly hasn't.

    8. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by sopssa · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's no surprise MS is going for this. Summary states its popular in UK, but it's really popular everywhere in Europe, despite needing invites to get account. Even "pro-piracy" forum users are saying in news comments how spotify has changed their listening habits and they dont pirate music anymore because spofity is just so convenient. I also am in long-distance relationship with my gf currently (was necessary for her school program) and we've always had similar music taste, so now we paste spotify links to each other in facebook or im to listen to something newly discovered good music.

      This *IS* what music industry needed and its great they've understood it now. Now just bring the same for movies and games, I'm even happy to pay monthly subscriptions for it. Just make it convenient and easy for me.

    9. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      But Microsoft has a positive cash flow to go with its status.

    10. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by buchner.johannes · · Score: 1

      Microsoft is trying to do everything, huh? OS, Office software, server systems, hardware, web apps, programming languages, ...

      Is seeing Microsoft as a single apparatus correct though or is it more like a bunch of bought up companies/development teams (huge though) that do their own thing? Can we even see Microsoft going in some direction as a whole or is gaining profit and having the same name the only common thing these groups have?

      I think it would be really hard to coordinate an evil plan with all these projects ... ;-)

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    11. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by bakuun · · Score: 1

      They are still more focused on a single area (the computer industry, mainly software) than many other companies. A prime example is my own ISP, virgin media. In addition to being an ISP/telco, virgin also operates airlines, train operations, music stores and radio stations. The fact that Microsoft has quite a diverse range from different types of software to computer peripherals to gaming consoles is not a bad thing.

    12. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by I+cant+believe+its+n · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Now they tell you that it will only be one minute of commercials for every 30 minutes of music...
      But we all know that this will be followed by the usual anal probing, once they dominate this market.

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    13. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by noundi · · Score: 1

      Chrysler may have financial difficulties - Microsoft certainly hasn't.

      Say what now?

      Don't kid yourself. Almost any corporation has difficulties these days, especially certain software corporations since other corporations using these softwares are beginning to question the necessities. OpenOffice is quickly gaining ground, and in my experience the biggest reason why corporations aren't fully migrating to OpenOffice is that their affiliates are still using MS Office, and you can just imagine peoples faces when they receive a .odt file instead of a .doc file. So it's really not about functionality or innovation. Even if MS Office has a thousand more features the office suits have reached to the extent where almost anything new is more about convenience rather than necessity.

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    14. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Chrysler isn't one of the biggest - not by a long shot. Try Toyota, VW, GM ( yes still ), Ford , Honda , Renault-Nissan, and even Hyundai are bigger than Chrysler. Now if you said Chrysler are one of the crappiest.......

    15. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Define "relevant".

      When it comes to people looking for the direction technology is going to take, they're not. MS has never led the way. Ever. There were no "firsts". They're good at taking what has been tried and is accepted and shape it into a masses-compatible vehicle, but that's basically all there is.

      Since other companies noticed that, hey, they don't need MS to do that, they can do it themselves, MS is losing relevance pretty quickly.

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    16. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One minute ads per half hour doesn't sound so bad to me either. Given the temperatures and the ensuing fluids consumption, taking a piss twice an hour sounds ok.

      But you know how it's gonna end, don't you? 5 nanoseconds after that service hits the market a tool will be introduced that lets you cut that ad, records the rest in perfect quality and queues everything you might want to listen to automatically for the next ten days.

      --
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    17. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Most of the Virgin Group are actually completely operationally independent companies under ownership or part ownership of the holding company, withg different executives sitting on the boards.

    18. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by TheLink · · Score: 2, Informative

      Their ex-staff might have financial difficulties, but I don't see anything in that link that shows that Microsoft has financial difficulties.

      So far they don't look like they're hurting.
      http://www.microsoft.com/msft/earnings/FY09/earn_rel_q2_09.mspx
      http://www.microsoft.com/msft/reports/default.mspx

      If that's considered "financial difficulty" I wouldn't mind having more of that.

      Maybe on July 23 they might declare a loss against all odds...

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    19. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by dna_(c)(tm)(r) · · Score: 1

      Pretty relevant I'd say, seeing as it's the largest software company in the world.

      HP and IBM are substantially larger, although they're not exclusively software companies. (revenue in billion $: HP 118, IBM 103, MS 60)

    20. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by dna_(c)(tm)(r) · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The fact that they slash 5000 jobs is no indication of how well they're doing.

    21. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by dna_(c)(tm)(r) · · Score: 1

      And I'll say, if they can get this right, they deserve to be the biggest.

      I hope you meant Spotify deserves it. MS is just copying again.

    22. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by nschubach · · Score: 1

      Since it says Spotify isn't available in the US (really?) I assume it's pretty much just like Last.FM or is it more like Pandora?

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    23. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by noundi · · Score: 1

      So you don't consider having to fire 5000 employees in order to continue providing positive figures a financial difficulty, I do. No need to continue this.

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    24. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      because I still don't personally feel comfortable consuming something which I did not pay the artist for.

      Do you really think that with all the middlemen still in the loop that listening to 1 minute of commercials per 30 minutes of music is going to generate any significant revenue for the artists? I wouldn't be surprised to learn that any major label music available on spotify is counted as promotional per the artists' contracts with their distributors and that they get exactly 0.0% of all such revenue.

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    25. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by noundi · · Score: 1

      The term "how well they're doing" is very vague. If you're talking about revenue then no, revenue and amount of jobs are not in direct corelation. If you're talking about market demand then yes, it indicates that the market demand is lower than expected which would render these 5000 employees unprofitable. It's really quite simple. If you own a company and notice that the workload is getting too large, you're in need of additional workforce, thus you hire new people. When the market demand for your product is lowered the workload is naturally also lowered, which renders some employees unprofitable, thus you fire them. During this period you could in theory provide the exact same fiscal revenue, given that these people niether cost nor earn the company anything. This is a very simplified example as there are many other aspects, such as material expenses, marketing expenses etc. and a more sober solution to it is of course a combination of cutting unnecessary expenses (material, marketing etc.) and fire unnecessary workforce.

      So in my opinion it does reflect "how well they're doing" as revenue isn't the only factor to look for. What it doesn't indicate is exactly how well they're doing.

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    26. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by binarylarry · · Score: 1

      True, but they also have a lot of new management.

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    27. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by robthebloke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Dunno about pandora, can't get it in the uk. Spotify is a bit like last fm, except that you get to listen to full albums (rather than a few tracks per artist), and it has a far greater selection of music available. Unlike the other services I've tried though, it does feel a lot less restrictive - just inserts an advert between every few songs.

    28. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by maxume · · Score: 1

      If you spread the $8.5 billion they earned in the last 6 months over those 5,000 employees, they apparently would have spent $1.7 million per employee for the six months, or an annual rate of $3.4 million per employee.

      'having to fire 5000 employees in order to continue providing positive figures' clearly is not the correct characterization of the situation. I would propose that they fired people to save money, but it wasn't a case of need, it was a case of having a good excuse to get rid of some dead weight.

      --
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    29. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by durin · · Score: 1

      Bear in mind that spotify is almost alone in this so far. I don't really think the music industry has understood that much, since they keep insisting on suing their own customers.

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    30. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by maxume · · Score: 3, Funny

      Nice of you to drop by Mr. Branson.

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    31. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by v1 · · Score: 1

      One minute ads per half hour doesn't sound so bad to me either.

      Heck, that's a lot better than I get over the air here! I would PAY (a small amount...) for a service like that.

      As it is, I can't get radio reception at work due to the building, and I have to listen to my favorite station's stream at a pathetic bitrate (24!) AND put up with about 8 minutes of ads per hour.

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    32. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by catxk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That tool is already available for Spotify. However, the 30 second commercial every half-hour just isn't enough an inconvenience for people to abandon the superb client. And why would you want to record the music to your hard drive? First of all, that is probably legal in most countries, second, why would you want to waste precious hard drive space when everything is available from Spotify? (I see one reason for this: transfer music to your mobile device, but a Spotify mobile client is under production).

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    33. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Of course not. They're firing 5000 employees in _anticipation_ of a decline in revenues and downturns are always good excuses to get rid of excess staff that hopefully a company doesn't need.

      Very many companies use economic downturns as an excuse to slash jobs worldwide, even if they are doing OK and can actually be profitable keeping those jobs.

      Go look at the figures. They declared a net income of USD4 billion for the _quarter_ (3 months ending Dec 2008) on the same day they declared they were slashing 5000 jobs.

      Maybe Microsoft were paying each of those 5000 people USD3.2 million a year on average (USD800k a quarter), but I doubt it.

      They're not experiencing financial difficulties. They're anticipating them. Whether or not they will encounter them is a different matter.

      They're like a rich man cutting down expenditure "just in case". Not like someone in debt and having to live on bread and water.

      If you still don't see the difference I'm not sure how to better explain it.

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    34. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      Microsoft aren't exclusively a software company, either.

    35. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by noundi · · Score: 1

      You're assuming that the profit generated by every employee is collected at once. Software development is a long term investment and that whatever these 5000 employees produced was most likely done way before the market crash. Initially when these people were hired the revenue was big enough to support them while producing. Now Microsoft can instead focus on selling the products generated by these employees showing promising figures. This is a very common strategy and the only downside is that this will slow down production, but if production isn't in sync with market demand then there's no real downside. But lowered market demand is not good for any company, in the short term you can fend it off using said strategies, but in the long term you're forced to downsize operation. However the crash didn't affect MS for being MS, nor any other company. It affected the whole market tilting the real values. Most companies are just waiting it out like this since they know the market isn't reflecting actual demand.

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    36. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by maxume · · Score: 1

      I'm just pointing out that your assertion was ridiculous. It is reasonable to assume that the most they have saved from those firings was 3 or 4 hundred million dollars (certainly nothing to sneeze at), so saying that they did it to 'continue providing positive figures' when they actually earned more than 20 times that amount doesn't make any sense.

      That they may still be reporting earning generated by production done by those employees simply isn't relevant.

      --
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    37. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by noundi · · Score: 1

      Of course you're right. By experiencing I meant anticipating, simply a bad choice of words from my side. However the fact that their revenue is solely based on these 5000 people was never my claim. This in addition to expense cuts, such as marketing expenses or material expenses etc., is how it is in reality. Also you have to keep in mind that the MS shareholders might be very disappointed with merely 1 billion for Q4 (which is, if you know business, always the best quarter). So perhaps you're looking at it from the wrong perspective. You can't assume that anything above 0 is necessarily good. You can't assume that anything above 1 billion is good neither. One thing is for sure, they fired 5000 people at once. This may not say how well Vista is selling but it does say a lot, and I think it's unfair to neglect it as irrelevant to "how well the company is doing".

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    38. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 1

      This *IS* what music industry needed

      The music industry needs serious reforms, appeasing to just the fact that music is incredibly overpriced and DRM laden is a start, but the corporate top-down make/break has far too much fat.

      Now just bring the same for movies

      The movie industry isn't really suffering, between box-office taking and tv rights there hardly about to go bankrupt. I've never heard actors/producers/etc complain about piracy, in fact I've heard a few actually embrace it!

      and games

      The game industry needs to stop charging £30 for crappy games, other than that its already learning that DRM doesn't work and i really fail to see how you could stream videogames!

      --
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    39. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by noundi · · Score: 1

      In all fairness I never claimed that these 5000 people were responsible for their entire revenue. There's probably been a lot of expense cuts as well, such as excessive material and marketing. I don't know if you work within a corporation or not but if you don't then I can tell you that probably every corporation on the face of this planet is undergoing savings strategies right now, and has been for a couple of months. Still I'm not saying that MS sales dropped to 0, I'm saying that MS is not untouched by the market turbulence. And all the savings in addition to the sales contribute to the revenue.

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    40. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by plague3106 · · Score: 1

      No, its not, not by a long shot, even before the economy tanked.

    41. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by PatrickThomson · · Score: 1

      Spotify mobile is a killer - if I want an album, it's usually £5 secondhand (given my tastes) so where spotify shines is a vast list of really random tracks, one-hit wonders that I previously had to either download an entire album for, or trawl through the dregs of emule. I mostly use my portable music player for podcasts and the like, but occasionally I'd like to walk down the street listening to some of the random crap I have on at the moment.

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    42. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

      What caused Crysler those difficulties? Just think deeper, try to remember the exact time when the troubles have begun.

      Nobody would buy those tiny Japanese cars wouldn't they? They wouldn't have the degree of support you could provide... Or, German cars could be avoided easily with couple of sublime Goodwin law breaking campaigns right?

      If you came to me back in 1984 and told Atari would become that miserable story of today or C64, I would really ROTFL.

    43. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by religious+freak · · Score: 1

      I didn't say it was perfect, I just said it was better. The best solution, IMHO is a kind of micro-royalty system where there are no middlemen. Who the hell needs distributors when the Internet does that for free?!

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    44. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by religious+freak · · Score: 1

      Copying? Being in the USA, I've never seen or heard of this Spotify thing (terrible name, by the way).

      Sounds like a good product. I don't know why they didn't bring it to the US earlier - so as far as I'm concerned the delivery method is fair game.

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    45. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by sopssa · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You cant compare it to Last.FM or Pandora. Its more like itunes store or your local mp3 files, just that when you search for something you can just click on it and it starts playing. The great thing is that they've managed to do it so that it *does start playing right away*, no lag and no buffering even tho that its streaming. It just feels like those are on your own computer and the quality is good.

      Advertisement amount varies by country. I heard my german and uk friends get more advertisements, but I get maybe 1-2 per day. And if those short adverts bother, its just 9.99e per month for premium without adverts.

      I really hope they get the contracts worked out to move to us soon too; spotify has changed lots in europe.

    46. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good.

      Now go check how much the albums make for the artists.

      No, not the powerful artists, those firmly under MAFIAAs boot.

    47. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by arndawg · · Score: 1

      They still suck.

      ...your mom's tits.

    48. Re:Microsoft feeling the pinch by drsquare · · Score: 1

      umm.. Chrysler is one of the biggest car companies in the world.

      Which makes them extremely relevant.

  2. apple / itunes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There doesn't seem to be a close tie-in between device and service, as there is between the iPod and the iTunes Store.

    Blah blah, if it's not the way Apple did it then it's wrong, blah blah

    1. Re:apple / itunes by Vectronic · · Score: 1

      That's your own interpretation of the sentence. Others, like myself, read it more like They aren't trying to do that stupid shit.

      And I presume that the promotion of Zune, might be something like a free (popular/crappy/whocares) song a week if you have your Zune registered ("Free exclusive only for Zune owners"), or maybe a points system, for each X song you purchase for your Zune, you get X points towards a free song, or higher quality versions, etc.

    2. Re:apple / itunes by dyefade · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The Apple reference is justified here - MSN spokesman claims new project will benefit Zune, but the two are not closely tied. Summary then cites an example of where a strong tie between device and service has benefited another company in a comparable situation.

      Seems like a desire to attack Apple/Slashdot/both has clouded your reading comprehension.

    3. Re:apple / itunes by dna_(c)(tm)(r) · · Score: 1

      The only way they will make the Zune less unpopular, is when they give it away. (I really couldn't say 'more popular' - and I still can't keep a straight face)

    4. Re:apple / itunes by RiotingPacifist · · Score: 1

      I read it as GP, probably too used to slashdot summaries trolling, but I think MS will been keen to avoid behaving like apple because anything even close to the lockin that apple use on their portable products would definitely land MS with an antitrust suit.

      --
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    5. Re:apple / itunes by dyefade · · Score: 1

      Err, my previous comment was obviously intended for the AC, not yourself.

    6. Re:apple / itunes by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Promote a free song? You mean like Apple has been doing for several years now? Their Single of the Week.

      http://www.apple.com/itunes/features/#discoveringmusic

      --
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  3. How do you not see the tie-in? by basementman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Launching their own in house streaming music service allows them to compete with both iTunes and Pandora in the music market, something they care currently getting their ass handed to them in. After all who would pay for music when they can just stream it for free on their Zune HD? It's a smart move on Microsofts part.

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    1. Re:How do you not see the tie-in? by nizo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      After all who would pay for music when they can just stream it for free on their Zune HD? It's a smart move on Microsofts part.

      Except to do this I would have to buy a Zune.

      --
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    2. Re:How do you not see the tie-in? by lwsimon · · Score: 1

      And be in range of an open AP.

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    3. Re:How do you not see the tie-in? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You can't stream to a PMP. It's pointless. If it's a streaming service, it's not going to help Zune sales, as Zune is a storage device for bought music. Spotify, if MS competing with it as the stub says, has no store. You listen at your computer in exchange for listening to some advertisments.

      If it's selling music like iTunes then it'll compete with Apple and help boost Zune sales, if it's good. If it's streaming music then it'll compete with Spotify, and nobody will care as spotify is great.

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    4. Re:How do you not see the tie-in? by corsec67 · · Score: 1

      They would end up competing with the Slacker G2, then.

      I hope MS is big enough to make this a world-wide thing, so that other people can offer world-wide streaming service.

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    5. Re:How do you not see the tie-in? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      A point I missed: Spotify links to Amazon music store for certain tracks in order to purchase them. They may make money out of this referral service, and this may also make Spotify a choice as a sort-of music store (even though it's only a referral service being offered).

      I did know this was offered, but I've never needed to use it.

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    6. Re:How do you not see the tie-in? by AmberBlackCat · · Score: 1

      After all who would pay for music when they can just stream it for free on their Zune HD?

      People who don't want to hear the commercials ever. And people who want to be able to play music while there is no internet connection. And people who want to hear the music on their iPods.

    7. Re:How do you not see the tie-in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's selling music like iTunes then it'll compete with Apple and help boost Zune sales, if it's good. If it's streaming music then it'll compete with Spotify, and nobody will care as spotify is great.

      Is it impossible to stream music with an option to buy so it can be put on your mobile device? Or can you not compete with 2 competitors at one time?

    8. Re:How do you not see the tie-in? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For once its the American's who are going to be complaining about not getting something all the Europeans have. Okay except for a Healthcare system... But you still can't watch Hulu!

    9. Re:How do you not see the tie-in? by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      Actually, the Zune can stream music. The 3.0 firmware allows connecting to wireless access points and accessing the online store, including some very limited streaming, via the Internet. There's no reason they couldn't expand this - I'd love a Pandora client for the thing - but the SDK doesn't allow third-party developers to use this functionality yet. That said, I can totally see MS making this available to Zune user whenever they happen to be near a WAP. Given their excellent track record thus far on back-porting firmware updates, it'll probably even be available on my 2nd-gen flash-based Zune.

      iPod Touch supports streaming too, but that (and probably the ZuneHD) are better classed as PDAs than as PMPs.

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  4. Last.fm is just fine by HermMunster · · Score: 1

    Last.fm is good enough. There are others. I don't see the value in another service like theirs. Last.fm has no commercials. I wouldn't want to trade a commercial free site for one with commercials.

    --
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    1. Re:Last.fm is just fine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last.fm is terrible in comparison

    2. Re:Last.fm is just fine by Asclepius99 · · Score: 1

      Even if that site turns out to be better and it's only 2 minutes of commercials per hour? Shouldn't the site come out before we start saying it's not as good as what's out there already?

    3. Re:Last.fm is just fine by luca · · Score: 1

      Maybe it is if you live in the US, UK or Germany.

    4. Re:Last.fm is just fine by fastest+fascist · · Score: 1

      Last.FM radio also isn't free these days outside the US, UK and Germany. Costs 3 euro/ month.

    5. Re:Last.fm is just fine by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it's good enough for you, but what about all those that want to listen to the big names? The way that Last.fm gets to be free is that it's mainly independent artists with very few if any of the big names. At some point if one wishes to hear whatever the major star of the moment is they'll have to pay in some fashion. Listening to a couple of minutes of commercials is something which is perfectly reasonable to expect in exchange for not paying.

    6. Re:Last.fm is just fine by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

      As you mention, last.fm is free in UK. The service I have never heard before is UK based too.

      For a British person, last.fm really serves the purpose and MS buys something unknown to the planet except UK. That is what that guy you reply means.

    7. Re:Last.fm is just fine by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      There is nothing wrong with the comparison, unless you are saying that Microsoft's offering can't even remotely come close to what Last.fm offers. Then I'll agree. Otherwise you are just trolling.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    8. Re:Last.fm is just fine by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      This is absolutely not true. Obviously you have limited use of it. Last.fm may have indie offerings but it is hardly a service which centers on that. I find virtually every song I have ever listened to in my whole life (and I've got a few years behind me) on there, and then some.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    9. Re:Last.fm is just fine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly, last.fm, Napster, and the Zune Marketplace is the best we got in the US. iTMS is just plain overpriced compared to what you find in other countries.

    10. Re:Last.fm is just fine by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      Don't be a fool. It's always 2 minutes of commercials an hour until....until it is 3, then 5, then 15.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    11. Re:Last.fm is just fine by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      It is free in the US and you can get it free in the UK and other countries if you know how. But I suspect there will be other issues also that interfere with the "service like spotify" in the UK and other countries once their servers are up.

      There's nothing to be impressed here with. It's just another category that Microsoft wants to dominate and rule like a monopoly. Hopefully everyone has already wised up to their tactics and can forcefully act against any nefarious ones. Please tell me that citizens of the UK are able to do that.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
  5. Spotify and the US by bakuun · · Score: 1

    Hopefully this will lead to Spotify speeding up their work towards a US launch.

  6. Had this for decades... by canUbeleiveIT · · Score: 1, Redundant

    which allows users to stream music for free in return for listening to around a minute's worth of advertisements every half hour.

    I've had one of these for decades--it's called a radio.

    1. Re:Had this for decades... by Decker-Mage · · Score: 1

      Never forget (you are welcome to scream along): "What's old is new again." {sigh}

      --
      "[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
    2. Re:Had this for decades... by Russ1642 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Radio stations are roughly 50% ads and 50% the same songs they played two hours ago.

    3. Re:Had this for decades... by Colourspace · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not if you live in the UK and have access to the BBC radio network.

    4. Re:Had this for decades... by Timmmm · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, with Spotify you can choose the songs you listen to yourself. It's basically iTunes with a massive library and occasional adverts.

      Actually I say occasional adverts. For some reason mine has completely stopped playing any. I have no idea why but I'm not complaining!

    5. Re:Had this for decades... by RotateLeftByte · · Score: 1

      Planet Rock (UK www.planetrock.com ) is certainly not 50% adverts and available over this funny thing called 'the internet' & DAB. Pity it is not available on Freeview.

      --
      I'd rather be riding my '63 Triumph T120.
    6. Re:Had this for decades... by IBBoard · · Score: 1

      Then it's just 50% annoying chat instead of adverts ;) It's the one thing I don't like about radio - there's too much inane chatter from the DJs. Much better to listen to some of the "music only" stations on Sky (and probably on DAB as well - at least for some of them).

    7. Re:Had this for decades... by noundi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Radio stations are roughly 50% ads and 50% the same songs they played two hours ago.

      Roughly? I'd say pretty much exactly.

      --
      I am the lawn!
    8. Re:Had this for decades... by slart42 · · Score: 1

      Actually I say occasional adverts. For some reason mine has completely stopped playing any. I have no idea why but I'm not complaining!

      Same here - been using spotify on a daily base for months, and it has yet to play a single advert on me. But possibly they just don't have any advertising deals in germany yet.

    9. Re:Had this for decades... by nuq2000 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I recently went to Oslo, from the UK, and when i switched on Spotify I received Norwegian adverts!

    10. Re:Had this for decades... by Timmmm · · Score: 1

      They don't seem to have many in the UK either. Most of their adverts are for their premium service rather than from third parties.

      They'll never break even with the service as it is. Mark my words. What they should do is lower the premium service to £5/month.

    11. Re:Had this for decades... by Ginger+Unicorn · · Score: 5, Informative

      mine stopped playing adverts too - i heard that it's a bug in the linux client

      --
      (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
    12. Re:Had this for decades... by Timmmm · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't call it a bug... :-)

    13. Re:Had this for decades... by squoozer · · Score: 2, Funny

      Damn you Linux hippes. On my Windows client I'm getting nothing but adverts to make up for all the ones you aren't getting. Yet another reason to hate the penguin.

      --
      I used to have a better sig but it broke.
    14. Re:Had this for decades... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mine stopped playing adverts too - i heard that it's a bug in the linux client

      Eh, you mean the linux client that doesn't exist, forcing us to use the windows client through wine?

      Either it's a bug in the windows client, a bug in the server software or wine does something (has a bug) that prevents it from working.

      - Peder

    15. Re:Had this for decades... by Ginger+Unicorn · · Score: 2, Informative

      yeah sorry - i mean a bug introduced by running the windows binary on wine.

      --
      (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
    16. Re:Had this for decades... by durin · · Score: 1

      That's not a bug. That's definitely a feature.

      --
      Why, yes! I AM new here.
    17. Re:Had this for decades... by ocularsinister · · Score: 1

      Wine is available for Windows too now... I wonder if running Spotify in wine for Windows would exhibit the same bug/feature?

    18. Re:Had this for decades... by MrCrassic · · Score: 1

      Depends on the station. Mainstream pro-payola radio stations operate exactly like this, but less "visible" stations actually have variety that matches internet radio, and very few commercials (somehow).

    19. Re:Had this for decades... by miike · · Score: 1

      mine stopped playing adverts too - i heard that it's a bug in the linux client

      I run spotify under wine it definitely plays ads from time to time, at least the "Jonathan from spotify" one. There is however a bug in wine or the client that prevents the banner ads in the client from showing.

    20. Re:Had this for decades... by Tibor+the+Hun · · Score: 1

      I'm an American, what's an OSLO?

      I keed, I keed...

      --
      If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
    21. Re:Had this for decades... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your radio is still in a time warp. These days, a standard FM radio station streams 30 minutes of ads in return for the ability to listen to around a minute or two of one of the same 100 songs every half hour.

    22. Re:Had this for decades... by arndawg · · Score: 1

      Funny. I live in norway but only get swedish adverts!

    23. Re:Had this for decades... by Colourspace · · Score: 1

      I find it OK because the 33% (and even if that, not 50%, unless you include Moyles) chatter is of reasonable quality, plus the commitment the BBC make to new music (not exclusively on radio 1), festival coverage, in new music we trust etc. I'd say its pretty excellent... And I would prefer chat over ads any day, especially when the quality of chat is above and beyond that of any commercial channel.

    24. Re:Had this for decades... by Albert+Sandberg · · Score: 1

      I'm paying for spotify and I would not bother how many times something would break my playlist for commercials, it is such a good service and good service is definitely worth 9 euro a month.

      Voddler.com is going to be the next big thing here in europe, we don't have netflix and such.

    25. Re:Had this for decades... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      libspotify is the official core from Spotify, and it's linux-only.
      While it's true that the main client is win32/osx "only", it runs nicely under Wine.

      If you don't like the official client, just hack something together with libspotify.

    26. Re:Had this for decades... by IBBoard · · Score: 1

      I never liked any of the Radio 1 DJs or the seeming dance focus to the music, the Radio 2 DJs seemed to waffle on too much (especially Jonathan Ross), and the rest was all too old. In general the BBC is probably as good in radio as it is on TV (I'm a lot happier now that the F1 is back on the Beeb and most stuff I watch is either BBC or US imports on Sky 1) but the radio stations never seemed to have enough rock on them. I think I used to ignore adverts because half of them were musical and blended in to some degree anyway (although some are quite jarring).

  7. Hugely popular? by Manip · · Score: 1

    So hugely popular I've never heard of it? Nor have two of my online contacts?

    I've used Last.fm before they cut the UK off, and Sky.fm for streaming radio. I'm not sure what "Spotify" is.

    1. Re:Hugely popular? by bakuun · · Score: 1

      www.spotify.com, if you're in the UK (or a number of other countries) you can sign up for free. Just try it out - you'll know what it is in a matter of minutes.

    2. Re:Hugely popular? by salmacis2 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, hugely popular. Sign up and give it a go.

    3. Re:Hugely popular? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Neither you nor TWO of your online contacts?
      Wow! You must be like, all the statistics-savvy people in the UK!

    4. Re:Hugely popular? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So hugely popular I've never heard of it? Nor have two of my online contacts?

      I've used Last.fm before they cut the UK off, and Sky.fm for streaming radio. I'm not sure what "Spotify" is.

      Yes, hugely poplar. http://www.google.com/trends?q=spotify%2Clast.fm&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all&sort=0

    5. Re:Hugely popular? by 117 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Last.fm haven't 'cut the UK off', in fact the UK is one of three countries (along with the US and Germany), where Last.fm is still available for free.

    6. Re:Hugely popular? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      If you're in the UK, you're missing out. I'm serious.

      Spotify I've not downloaded music in months.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    7. Re:Hugely popular? by Godwin+O'Hitler · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't bring the UK into this. I'll have you know only 95.3% of Brits aren't statistics savvy.

      --
      No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
    8. Re:Hugely popular? by gsslay · · Score: 1

      So hugely popular I've never heard of it? Nor have two of my online contacts?

      Seriously? Spotify is everywhere just now, and not just among techie circles. You are more out of touch than you think.

    9. Re:Hugely popular? by vonFinkelstien · · Score: 1

      You must not be a junior high student. Almost all of my students use Spotify here in Sweden.

    10. Re:Hugely popular? by netean · · Score: 1

      what do you mean cut off the UK. I'm in the UK and use last.fm all the time - at home, in internet cafe's etc. last.fm works just fine in the uk.

  8. scale & quality by neonprimetime · · Score: 1

    In what is becoming an increasingly competitive marketplace, Mr Bale thinks Microsoft can bring "scale and a quality of product" to the music streaming scene.

    is this the same microsoft i know?

    1. Re:scale & quality by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      They promise you the sky, stars, bells and whistles, and everyone in the IT security biz already has that odd, irritating gleam in his eyes... what about it is not the MS you know?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:scale & quality by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Yes, that's how they operate. They bring in scale and build quality until everybody is conditioned to only buy their products, then they cut out the quality. Observe how craptastic Windows, Office and Internet explorer are compared with the products they sell that have to compete. Say the Zune, office hardware, money and search. I know some smart ass is going to scoff, but Bing and the Zune are quite a bit better than what people suggest.

    3. Re:scale & quality by The_Quinn · · Score: 1

      They bring in scale and build quality until everybody is conditioned to only buy their products, then they cut out the quality.

      You forgot the part about rubbing your hands together while your monacle shakes from your evil laughter

      I'm not sure what business you work in, but most successful businesses struggle mightily to enhance the value of their products and grow their business.

      Microsoft is no different, and while, as a developer myself, I certainly get annoyed by certain things, you cannot deny that their product line has improved drastically over the last 15 years since Windows 3.1

      In fact, many thousands of organization, and millions of people, derive tremendous value from their products.

      Everyone will have their personal preferences about what they think is good or bad about a particular piece of software, but the overall value proposition that Microsoft provides today is tremendous. Google can't touch it. (yet).

      --
      Mine is Good
  9. zune possibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it will probably tie into the zune in that the zune will become a porta-spoty - through the magic of drm and expiring content - you will most likely be able to sync your favorite streams to your zune for X days as part of your regular subscription price - and permanently for the .99.

  10. Isn't this... by Em+Emalb · · Score: 1

    Isn't this like trying to buy a ticket for the Titanic as it's going down?

    Also...where's the outrage that a specific music service is available only in the UK? I live in the US! Information wants to be free! FREEEDOMMMMMMM.

    I kid, I kid. Mostly though, I'm sick of seeing those comments from posters who can't access content because they live in a different country. WAAAAH.

    --
    Sent from your iPad.
  11. This will affect the Zune in the UK ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I better tell him the news

  12. Wow !!! by Ractive · · Score: 0

    That's a huge advance, Just Genius,free music just for some advertising who would have thought of that... Oh wait...

    1. Re:Wow !!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, and how do you control what your radio station plays?

      Do you fax them a playlist?
       
      Oh wait...

  13. why anything Microsoft by markringen · · Score: 2, Insightful

    why anything Microsoft fails is because they too strongly believe in DRM. the entire iTunes store for example is now completely DRM free, and all the market leaders right now are so DRM free. rental services have died a horrible death because DVD/CD media has become affordable enough not to pirate them (as in costing more time to download, then the money it costs to buy).. i put into account my minimum wage is at least 6euro's, put that over the time it costs to download 3 to 8 hours it's too expensive after about 2 hours. the same goes for subscription movies, it's a fucking waste of my money as its cheaper time wise to just get the dvd..

    1. Re:why anything Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rental services have died a horrible death?

      Tell that to the three red Netflix envelopes I just brought in with the mail.

    2. Re:why anything Microsoft by IBBoard · · Score: 1

      rental services have died a horrible death because DVD/CD media has become affordable enough not to pirate them

      I think that depends on the rental service. I've got an account with LoveFilm and can rent as many DVDs as I want each month for ~£15. Even when DVDs are cheap there's no way I'm getting the number of films I can watch for that kind of money!

      As for the tie-in, maybe the DRM is where it lies - the service will be free as long as you're using a Windows Vista/7 PC or a Zune!

    3. Re:why anything Microsoft by Godwin+O'Hitler · · Score: 1

      Why Microsoft fails in the music market is they have next to no leverage. The only crowbar MS has ever had is their OS monopoly, and that has already jacked up as much weight as it can without bending.

      In markets where they have to compete without leverage, they have never been able to dominate. The gaming market (hardware and software) is one example and music looks like going the same way. I wonder if they themselves seriously believe they have a future outside of the Windows lock-in world.

      --
      No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
    4. Re:why anything Microsoft by lordandmaker · · Score: 1

      i put into account my minimum wage is at least 6euro's, put that over the time it costs to download 3 to 8 hours it's too expensive after about 2 hours. the same goes for subscription movies, it's a fucking waste of my money as its cheaper time wise to just get the dvd..

      It's a waste of time to sit there waiting for it to download, sure.

      Mine download in the background while I'm doing other things, mostly while I'm asleep. The total time expended on that activity is likely less than 10 minutes to find the torrent and initiate the download. That's 1euro for a film, which is certainly pretty cheap compared to what we pay in the UK.

    5. Re:why anything Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe DRM was part of the deal with the RIAA that prevents Spotify accessing the US market.

      If you dance with the devil the devil don't change: the devil changes you.

    6. Re:why anything Microsoft by zyzko · · Score: 1

      the entire iTunes store for example is now completely DRM free, and all the market leaders right now are so DRM free.

      The videos and games on iTunes store are now drm-free? Wow, I have completely missed this...

    7. Re:why anything Microsoft by markringen · · Score: 1

      i am talking about music. the games are also DRM free so far i know, only problem being it requiring OS X.

  14. Re:WTF man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Come on dad, you promised you would start taking your pills.

  15. Better streaming services needed by Goateee · · Score: 1

    I think good music streaming services is what will get many pirates to pay for their music, be it by a subscription or by listening to Commercials. While there are now some good non-DRM music to buy online, I usually wish to listen to hundreds of new tracks each month. At around 1$/track this would limit my listening in a fashion I would not consider. Streaming music on the other hand could work, since I would listen to any amount of music available. It also has the advantage of the music being available immediately instead of in a very short time.

    Currently I use Spotify, and it seem to be the best streaming service available as of yet. It is still however too limited both when it comes to the amount of music available and the functions of the client. Allowing plugins could fix most of the limitations of the client however. I really hope more and better streaming options becomes available.

  16. Is it just me? by alx5000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is it me, or lately MS looks like a fireman with a watering can, running around trying to put out fires everywhere?

    I mean, Zune (iPod), Bing (Google), this (Spottify)... Lagging behind the competition a little, are we?

    --
    My 0.02 cents
    1. Re:Is it just me? by shacky003 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You mean like they did with the first PC OS (Behind the original mac OS) that they copied, then improved on to basically take over the world? It seems like the system works for them...

    2. Re:Is it just me? by alx5000 · · Score: 1

      You mean like they did with the first PC OS (Behind the original mac OS) that they copied, then improved on to basically take over the world? It seems like the system worked for them...

      FTFY. HAND. ;)

      --
      My 0.02 cents
    3. Re:Is it just me? by nschubach · · Score: 1

      Having just read a quote from Ballmer on Engadget: "I don't know if they can't make up their mind or what the problem is over there, but the last time I checked, you don't need two client operating systems. It's good to have one." Maybe someone should tell him it's good to have one streaming music service, one web search, and one video game console as well. ;)

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    4. Re:Is it just me? by durin · · Score: 1

      I get the impression that someone actually DID that.

      --
      Why, yes! I AM new here.
    5. Re:Is it just me? by Alkonaut · · Score: 1
      Sometimes they ARE at the frontline of ideas and research (singularity, photosynth etc.), but more often for a huge company such as MS it is more convenient and cost efficient to take good ideas and either buy them or reinvent as something either better because it is newer than the competition (.net vs java), has a more efficient development model than the competition (directx vs opengl). If you have all the money in the world you can be second with an idea and still make it work. Sometimes it is even better to be second. .NET has all the clever afterthought that java developers had no chance of having.

      If you can pay the best people in the world to develop something, it will be great. It will be better than the project those people worked on before coming to microsoft, be it google, java, spotify...

      Also, if you have all the money in the world you can market your project more than the other project. Your project will thus have more users. Once you have critical mass, it doesn't really matter how good your project is.

    6. Re:Is it just me? by Thomsen · · Score: 1

      I think that you accidentally spelled "CP/M" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CP/M) as "mac OS".

    7. Re:Is it just me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Surface (multitouch), IE8 (any halfway standards-compliant browser)...

      It's tough when they can't out-and-out buy the competition and rebrand it as their own.

    8. Re:Is it just me? by cathars1s · · Score: 1

      The strategy worked pretty well for xbox.

    9. Re:Is it just me? by trifish · · Score: 1

      You forgot the Silverlight (Flash), XPS (PDF), and ~OOXML (ODF).

    10. Re:Is it just me? by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      I mean, Zune (iPod), Bing (Google), this (Spottify)... Lagging behind the competition a little, are we?

      You're missing something.

      Until a couple of years ago, Microsoft didn't compete with the iPod, they didn't compete with Google (well... mostly), they didn't compete with Pandora or whatever, they didn't compete in console gaming.

      This isn't Microsoft playing catch-up, this is Microsoft entering new markets they weren't in previously. Completely different scenario. So you're not really making any point, not any that's meaningful.

      "A late-comer to the market is struggling to keep up with the established market" isn't news.

      --
      Comment of the year
    11. Re:Is it just me? by msormune · · Score: 1

      Hasn't that been the situation since the days of MS-DOS? I remember they snubbed out competition like DR-DOS with promises of the similar features for MS-DOS "just around the corner"? Features which never happened.

  17. ***subspace transmission***⦠by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the Borg cube is on the move again

  18. Memo to Balmer : re Zune by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Before you decide to link any music service to a Zune why don't you make it available outside the USA?

    It probably won't be a success as it is so late in the market unless they give one away with every copy of Windows 7?

    Microsoft: A good example of a company where the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing.

     

  19. My solution... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    My linux box keeps ripping some shoutcast stations 24/7. Everything I dislike is moved to a folder, a shell script adds them to a blacklist and another one deletes these tracks if they are played again (sort of local last.fm).
    This way I keep getting new tracks in mp3 format which are more or less ready to copy to my mp3 player - and it is legal where I'm located :)

  20. You can get spotify outside UK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    It is accessible to someone in USA.

    What you need to do is use an UK based proxy to register, claim that you are from UK and use a postcode that is valid in UK. (The proxy needs to support using the POST method to get the registration form sent.)

    After you have registered, you can log in and use the service from anywhere without further need for proxies. I did this a while ago and it is really worth testing out.

    As a related note... Spotify doesn't have an Linux client but the windows client works very well under Wine. (Or well, in theory. I'm having some ALSA relate problems but I'm pretty sure that the cause is my Wine configuration.) It also has a mac client.

    1. Re:You can get spotify outside UK by TheP4st · · Score: 1

      As a related note... Spotify doesn't have an Linux client

      Not entirely correct as there is a unoffical Spotify client for Linux, Despotify.

      --
      "I have downloaded hundreds and hundreds of records, why would I care if somebody downloads ours?" Robin Pecknold
    2. Re:You can get spotify outside UK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      libspotify exists now, and while the core is closed, there's nothing stopping anyone from writing a good client.
      Furthermore, Spotify is very WINE friendly.

    3. Re:You can get spotify outside UK by luca · · Score: 1

      But it only works with premium (i.e. paid) accounts.

    4. Re:You can get spotify outside UK by SlashBugs · · Score: 1

      I can vouch for Spotify's windows client working perfectly under WINE for me and a few friends. We're all on various versions of (k)ubuntu with whatever version of WINE is currently latest in the stable repos. The Mac client is great too.

    5. Re:You can get spotify outside UK by f0rk · · Score: 1

      I can not say its perfect, but it's ok. Minor bugs here and there. I would prefer not to install the beast that is called WINE, to have spotify running. I'd rather listen to Last.FM (prefer last.fm anyways =P).

      If Spotify releases a full feature client for linux (at least x86 32bit and 64bit), i might actually start using it again.

  21. Why not last fm by wjh31 · · Score: 1

    So why should i use this instead of lastfm which features no adverts per half hour of music

    1. Re:Why not last fm by ciderVisor · · Score: 1

      Once you've tried Spotify, you will never ask this question again. It's that good.

      --
      Squirrel!
    2. Re:Why not last fm by Laukei · · Score: 2, Informative

      Last.fm, at least in the UK (I'm not sure about in the US) doesn't allow you to create playlists, or listen to one song over and over an unlimited amount of times. Nor does it allow you to listen, start to finish, to an album.

      Spotify does. As previously stated by someone in the comments, it's basically just iTunes with a massive, cloud-stored library of music that plays as soon as you click it (the buffering is completely unnoticeable.)

      Laukei

    3. Re:Why not last fm by mythz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So why should i use this instead of lastfm which features no adverts per half hour of music

      Because it's the fastest music player with the smallest footprint available that lets you listen to *any song* you want.
      You can search and play a song in milliseconds.

      There is no equal, period.

    4. Re:Why not last fm by Fross · · Score: 1

      Could you elaborate on why you think it's that good? I've used last.fm a bit, and spotify a bit. neither have large collections of the music I like, it seems.

      My view of Spotify was their basic "radio" channels suck (I really don't want to listen to rock, or hiphop, or jazz), though the way you can intersect and combine them is neat, (e.g., rock and hiphop only from the 80s). However, finding stuff in different genres means searching by band, finding similar bands etc. This to me isn't much better than using youtube and making playlists on there, what IS so good about Spotify?

    5. Re:Why not last fm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Spotify application is like no other application ever made - it is impossibly FAST.

      It is actually FASTER to search for and play for a song (that you have never listened to before) than it is to play a song from your local library in any other music player.

      The App, the service, the streaming is so instant that it seems technically impossible to achieve.

      Seriously, no other application even compares - Microsoft will be incapable of delivering anything that comes remotely close to the User Exprience that Spotify has.

    6. Re:Why not last fm by mythz · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well everyone at work uses it, so the best way I use it to discover music is to actually listen to each other's playlists.
      To share a playlist just right-click on the playlist click 'Copy HTTP Link' and IM the link to a friend.

      Other than that I just basically search for genre, i.e. 'acoustic', order by popularity and let it play.

      They also have Artist radio (which I don't use very much), which basically looks like listening to a random set of tracks from similar artists.

      I've actually discovered a lot more music I like on Spotify than any other service for a long time.

      It's actually that good a service that I'm probably one of the few people paying the monthly £9.99 p/m to listen to music without interruption, as I think the service is actually worth paying for.

    7. Re:Why not last fm by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      A place I go to uses a mixture of last.fm and Spotify to provide their piped music.. this isn't unusual any more - I've been in several pubs and been surprised to hear the spotify premium advert suddenly play...

      This is the future - buying music is going the way of the dodo.

    8. Re:Why not last fm by Fross · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the feedback.

      I have been using the radio channels and artist radio primarily, which i agree aren't great, and that's probably why I wasn't getting a great experience out of it.

      Perhaps the UI isn't great, which is why I've not been finding this better functionality, I'll give it another try!

    9. Re:Why not last fm by nschubach · · Score: 1

      That's pretty much Last.FM except you can't specify playlists unless you pay for it. You can however type in a search for a specific type of music and it will do tag comparisons for similar music and you can essentially do the same thing (with links.)

      For instance: http://www.last.fm/listen/globaltags/atmospheric <- There you go... a channel dedicated to just atmospheric music.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    10. Re:Why not last fm by nschubach · · Score: 1

      Playlists are a subscription perk.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    11. Re:Why not last fm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If there's a Flash standalone player available for your platform of choice (Win, Mac for sure - dunno about linux) you can use the Grooveshark player with a footprint of about 10-20MB

      It's not exactly small, but on par with classic Winamp. Plus Grooveshark has a pretty decent collection of music and some nice features.

      If you want it even smaller, create a playlist and then use the embedded Player instead of the main player - ~6MB

    12. Re:Why not last fm by ciderVisor · · Score: 1

      I use it as a huge jukebox - i.e. I know what I'm looking for and search for specific artists or tracks. I use old-fashioned methods to discover new music - friends' recommendations, magazine reviews or tips from online forums.

      I'm not saying this is the right or only way to do things but Spotify works for me in a way that no other online service does. I don't subscribe currently but would happily pay the £10/month if the free service disappeared.

      One of the record industry's complaints about file sharing was that "you can't compete with free". Spotify has shown that if you make it free AND more convenient than file sharing, you can compete and furthermore win. It simply wouldn't occur to me to get music via file sharing these days - it's just too much hard work. Hell, it's easier to fire off a track in Spotify than it is to get a CD out of the rack !

      I love music and Spotify makes me feel like a kid in a candy store. Superb !

      --
      Squirrel!
    13. Re:Why not last fm by intheshelter · · Score: 1

      Milliseconds? I'm afraid I'm going to have to call shenanigans on that statement.

    14. Re:Why not last fm by mythz · · Score: 1

      Save your phone money.

      You should probably try it before you make any calls.

      Here I'll write the test script out for you:

      1. Enter a search-term in the search box.
      2. Start your timer then press the enter key.
      3. Double click in the middle of the search results page on a track.
      4. Stop timer when you start hearing sound.

      Timer should read 1s, Check.
      What did you get?

    15. Re:Why not last fm by intheshelter · · Score: 1

      It took over a second. My point is made.

    16. Re:Why not last fm by mythz · · Score: 1

      We'll my friend the bottleneck is either with you or your computer.

    17. Re:Why not last fm by intheshelter · · Score: 1

      Or your hyperbole of milliseconds.

    18. Re:Why not last fm by T+Murphy · · Score: 1

      Because Last.fm sends information about you to the RIAA (via parent ABC).

      --
      My webcomic
  22. Cross Subsidy to undercut the competition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Now I am not a Competition Lawyer but isn't this yet another case of Microsoft taking their big War Chest of cash from Windows (DoJ and EU convicted monopoly abuser) and Office and using it to undercut the pricing and business models of other companies?

    When British Airways set up GO, a low cost spin-off, they had to do a single payment and make sure they were separate so as to stop cross subsidising distorting the market. This is exactly what Microsoft do. The first XBox was a loss for them but thanks to their pockets they could do what SEGA couldn't and take the losses. The Zune is a loss but they can still keep pumping money into it. Cloud is yet another case where they are leveraging both the monopoly position of windows and combining it with the war chest to try and dominate in another area and undercut the competition.

    This streaming music thing is exactly the same thing. Apple couldn't have built up the iPod and iTunes unless it made money pretty much from the start, Microsoft can burn for 5 years and undercut the competition thanks to the cash cow in the background.

    HOW THE HELL IS THIS LEGAL?

    1. Re:Cross Subsidy to undercut the competition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes they can keep pumping money into Zune but how many have they sold outside North America?
      Think of a number close to a big fat zero at least that is the number in Europe.
      Europe, that little place on the eastern side of the atlantic with a far bigger population than North America. Hardly a trivial market yes in their wisdom, Microsoft have ignored it altogether. They have done the same with other parts of the world as well.

      The iPod is a worldwide brand in a way that the Zune can never be. I wish that Microsoft would realize this.

      And No, I don't own an iPod or use iTunes or any other download service. I'm happy with my mp3 rips of my CD or LP collection playing on a 5 year old creative mp3 player.

  23. Sounds like a repeat of PlaysForSure / etc by fyrewulff · · Score: 1

    Already persuing a streaming service right after making a big announcement that we'll be able to listen to last.fm from our Xbox 360s?

    This is like all their music stores/PlaysForSure that have come before, where they announce one thing, and then drop it because some exec in another department wants to do a similiar project.

    --
    "We need to get over this notion, that, for Apple to win... Microsoft must lose." - Steve Jobs, 1997
  24. Bittorrent user Eh? by RotateLeftByte · · Score: 1

    You must be pirating music. The MPAA/RIAA (or your local equivalent) will be knocking on your door shortly.

    Seriously, some people out there (Music publishers are you listening) would like to make using bittorrent akin to proof that you are illegally downloading music. They can see no legal reason for this type of application.
    Then AFAIK, some ISP's throttle Bittorrent use as a sop to the Music/Movie biz for the above reasons.

    --
    I'd rather be riding my '63 Triumph T120.
    1. Re:Bittorrent user Eh? by tcr · · Score: 1

      Interestingly enough, Spotify uses P2P for the most popular tracks rather than streaming it all from their servers. The client was written by the guy who wrote uTorrent.

      --


      Information wants to be beer.
  25. Ah, the famous Microsoft innovation by Bertie · · Score: 1

    I know the story's only a rehashed press release, but this service seems to do precisely nothing that Spotify doesn't. So what would I want with it?

  26. My prediction... by DavidR1991 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...is that will use Silverlight. My initial reaction to this was "My God, it will suck: it won't be cross platform". Then it occurred to me - Silverlight is cross-platform. So not only would this allow MS to target a larger market, it would get SL on to a huge amount of machines. Oh, and it could be an additional 'pull' factor for Windows: You get free streaming, but you can only download (onto a device) if you have a Zune. And you can only use the Zune if you have Windows... or some such strategy like that

    Obviously this is only my personal prediction, but I'm personally expecting this to be an offline app with embedded Silverlight stuff. Either that, or a .NET app (but I'm uncertain on that - what's the status of Mono with OS X?)

    1. Re:My prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      silverlight 1 is multiplateforme but microsoft just publish the version 3. One of the "goog" things with mono: they are always far behind the current implementation.

    2. Re:My prediction... by Pop69 · · Score: 1

      Yes, but you have to remember that Microsofts current idea of cross platform is that it runs on XP and Vista !

    3. Re:My prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which are the only two platforms that currently matter.

    4. Re:My prediction... by mythz · · Score: 1

      Microsoft itself supports silverlight on OSX (with safari/FF), so it will guaranteed to run there.

      Any other platform/browser variant will probably need to be supported by moonlight to run (http://mono-project.com/Moonlight).

      Moonlight compatibility is actually pretty advanced, as far as I understand there is a support contract between MS and Novell (Mono) that gives Novell access to all their Silverlight test suites, which is actually a big step in true-compatibility as if all the tests pass there is a very good chance that your silverlight app will work under linux as well.

      Although even if Silverlight works it wont be able provide the User Experience that Spotify does, which is a very well-written truly native application with a primary focus on speed.

    5. Re:My prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So not only would this allow MS to target a larger market, it would get SL on to a huge amount of machines.

      What makes you believe the site will be visited and used by a huge number of machines. Remember Soapbox? Microsoft's YouTube killer from yesteryear?

    6. Re:My prediction... by mythz · · Score: 1

      This is because its Microsoft right? and Microsoft is incapable cross-platform software right?

      So its just co-incidence that it also runs in OS X right?

      I wish there was a filter to remove these baseless un-informed comments.

    7. Re:My prediction... by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

      Silverlight is i386 Windows/OS X only with no kind of developer tool support for OS X. Don't even dare to mention Eclipse. Average designer thinks it is a cool named Virus, I am not joking.

      Moonlight is just a half ass clone of Silverlight which has no function rather than make couple of ignorant people or basic MS astroturfers believe that MS would ever do anything which will work same way on anything other than Windows.

      Mono on OS X? These people (Developers) have access to Cocoa, one of the World's most advanced UI libraries and Objective C. They can also use UNIX 03 certified underlying layer. Why would they monkey with Mono? It is not like MS saved their company from going chapter 11 with some undisclosed agreements and made it hire some rejected Developer to top position.

      Last.fm client must be really alerting to MS since it is basically Flash and Trolltech (Nokia) Qt 4. Works in same quality on every popular platform and CPU of today, INCLUDING PowerPC and ARM.

    8. Re:My prediction... by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

      MS is incapable of developing windows media player for i386/OS X even while companies who trusted their DRM solution are banging their heads to wall seeing 30-40% of OS X hits which will never be able to purchase their goods.

      They also can't release Silverlight 2/3 for PPC which really means Silverlight code and Framework is tied to i386 which alone is a real bad thing or can signal way worse thing like, Silverlight OS X is actually Silverlight Win32 acting like an OS X app. Just like their puppet EA games releases. (not actual conversions)

    9. Re:My prediction... by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

      Is it the same moonlight which had to get a special feed for Obama inauguration since it didn't support Silverlight 2 that time? I submitted the original story to slashdot I remember and if it wasn't there, you weren't be able to watch it from official site since MS bribed site didn't even bother with your clone plugins existence at all!

      BTW MS only hires Developers who were born and raised in Windows scene unless they would serve them as in another form like trojaning Debian with MS patents. I mean, in case some people thinks astroturfing would benefit for their future. It doesn't.

    10. Re:My prediction... by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Zune already has an app. Given, it's not cross-platform, but it would be goofy if Microsoft replaced their perfectly functional (and in fact quite good!) Zune app with a Silverlight app.

      BTW, if you want to try the Zune app, you don't need to own the hardware. It runs approximately 50 times faster than iTunes, with the same featureset.

      --
      Comment of the year
    11. Re:My prediction... by Pop69 · · Score: 1

      Oddly enough, I'm sitting here using Firefox on an iBook G4 which says that it doesn't run any version of Silverlight above 1.x.

      Seems I can't use their service, never mind.

    12. Re:My prediction... by DavidR1991 · · Score: 1

      Silverlight is i386 Windows/OS X only

      No it isn't. It runs on PPC as well, assuming the spec. info is correct

      Why would they monkey with Mono?

      So (non-OS X developers) could port .NET apps directly

    13. Re:My prediction... by DavidR1991 · · Score: 1

      Actually, accept my apologies: 1.x is PPC compatible, but 2.0+ is no longer PPC compatible

    14. Re:My prediction... by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      That's actually pretty funny and totally obvious.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
    15. Re:My prediction... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the most advanced libraries?

      It's almost exactly the same as the Objective C interface builder that was in NeXTStep 2.0 that shipped going on two decades ago. .NET is far more modern than the IB that comes with OS X. .NET also is well documented, while most of Apple's API calls have little to no documentation.

    16. Re:My prediction... by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      Nothing matters except competition. With Windows in your view as being the only one that matters, if you get your way, we all get shafted in a big way. Let's not focus on Microsoft, let's focus on competion. Microsoft and Windows do not matter. Give the customer what they want. If a customer only thinks Windows exists then they may think that is what they want. When they understand that there is competition choice is all that matters.

      I'd say you should grow up some. You sound either like a M$ shill getting paid for this or you sound like a zealot which the world could do with a lot less of.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
  27. Another Memo to Balmer by dna_(c)(tm)(r) · · Score: 1

    I have a suggestion for a brand: "StreamsForSure" and then it will not play on a Zune, and after 3 years it will be abandoned... OK, I admit PlaysForSure was some prior art.

    1. Re:Another Memo to Balmer by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      I always heard the the "ForSure" as sarcastic, like: "plays... oh, for sure *rolls eyes*".

  28. Nor a college student by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Same is true for colleges.

    A finnish college student here. Yeah, pretty much everyone uses it.

  29. yawn... I'm sticking with Radio Paradise. by DougReed · · Score: 1

    30 minutes of Vista ads followed by 'Against The Wind', then 'Free Bird', and back to Windows ads. No thanque.

  30. why Microsoft will eventually fail... by DragonTHC · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because someone at Microsoft feels the need to answer every existing web service with one of their own, they will ultimately fail.

    This strategy is ludicrous and speaks volumes about the corporate mentality at the software giant. This "we must have our hand on the top of every arena" mentality will be their downfall. They are spreading too thin and have lost sight of their purpose. When you try to compete with everyone, you compete with no one.

    --
    They're using their grammar skills there.
    1. Re:why Microsoft will eventually fail... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They only have to make a money in a few area's. Bing doesn't have to out perform Google to make money there is enough revenu in the search market for two big players. The same with spotfly, I mean how many radio stations are there, they make money.

  31. Reincarnation of PlaysForSure by MrCrassic · · Score: 1

    I hope they become successful with this project, but not in the "Let's-create-PlaysForSure-just-to-lure-them-in" kind of way.

  32. Silverlight & Moonlight are not ineroperable by RotateLeftByte · · Score: 1

    Or else why do quite a few sites that you access with Moonlight refuse to play but direct you to download Silverlight.
    Duh! If I was accessing it using Moonlight I conld not install Silverlight on the same Operating System.

    Ok, that is Microsoft's explanation of 'interoperability' so it is fine and dandy.

    --
    I'd rather be riding my '63 Triumph T120.
  33. Good luck with that by Nerdposeur · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm all for competition, but previous music efforts by Microsoft have been hilariously bad. This interview is comedic gold for cluelessness. An actual Q&A with Hugh Griffiths, Head of Mobile at Microsoft UK:

    If I buy these songs on your service - and they're locked to my phone - what happens when I upgrade my phone in six months' time?

    Well, I think you know the answer to that.

  34. simple idea by sl0ppy · · Score: 1

    why not build an app for it, and sell it on the itunes store?

    there's no reason to tie this to a single product. if they are making money off of one advertisement per half hour per user, then it should hold that raising the number of users significantly would also raise their profits.

    who cares if it's from microsoft or apple? if the service is good, and can attract enough users to survive, then it could be a good product.

  35. They fight the future (!) by Ilgaz · · Score: 1

    If you think about it, they target multi platform things.

    If you only use Google services, Last.fm, Youtube like flash video hosting sites, why would you need Windows for? Netbook vendors proved it until they probably had a call from MS reminding their usual business is owned by Microsoft pyramid scheme.

    Their real panic is about web applications/services which works anywhere. It is absolutely related to panic since there is no point doing another jukebox service. Last.fm owns it. They were clever doing the thing open source, multi platform, documented and they now enjoy it. My Nokia E65 can stream last.fm from an 3rd party instant messenger. Can you imagine the degree of the compatibility? 3rd party instant messenger has SDK (Fring BTW), last.fm has sdk too. So, one can code a plugin for it using its SDK with last.fm SDK&API.

    Someone really buries his head to sand in this already crazy scene which nothing which doesn't tie to some standard and multi platform succeeds.

  36. There's already a US version - imeem by illectro · · Score: 1

    imeem has been doing something similar for a long time - supposedly it was started by some ex-napster people and has basicly turned into napster in a browser, where people can share any music by uploading it to the site, and anyone can listen to it. Advertising is all over the plance and is used to pay the labels/artist/lawyers.

    1. Re:There's already a US version - imeem by T+Murphy · · Score: 1

      I don't know about Spotify (new to me), but imeem only gives you a 30 second sample for songs that artists/labels complain about. They have a lot of songs, but it isn't comprehensive. The selection is still much better than last.fm's on-demand options, but not as good as the radio playlists.

      I listen to metal- Rush, Iron Maiden, Metallica, and bands that take after them. I don't know how it is with other genres, so YMMV.

      --
      My webcomic
  37. Re:Silverlight & Moonlight are not ineroperabl by mythz · · Score: 1

    OMG, Can anyone here post without a clue??

    Silverlight is the runtime (think: JVM) of course you can't have a windows JVM and install it on Linux. That's stupid.

    It's not the Silverlight runtime thats cross platform, it's whatever apps you build for that platform that makes it portable.
    Let me break it down for you:

    Silverlight Runtime ~= JRE
    Silverlight Runtime ~= Moonlight runtime

    These runtimes only runs on the platform it was built for, i.e. you can't run a windows JRE, on OS X, an OS X jre on Linux, etc, etc.

    Silverlight .xap ~= Java applet .jar
    Silverlight .xap ~= Flash .swf

    The exact same .xap will run *NOW* on Silverlight+Windows/IE/FF/Chrome or Silverlight+OSX/Safari/FF

    That my friend is what we call cross-platform, the same .xap I developed with VS.NET (or eclipse: www.eclipse4sl.org) will run unmodified now on OSX and is likely to run on Moonlight+Linux.

    Once Moonlight is feature complete and all tests pass, the exact same .xap will run on Moonlight+whatever platform moonlight supports.

  38. Re:Silverlight & Moonlight are not ineroperabl by RotateLeftByte · · Score: 1

    The state I was describing is where the site you are trying to get the file from checks to see what browser you are using and what version of Silverlight you are using. As (AFAIK) Moonlight reports this differently the servers thinks it can't send the data for display and redirects you to Microsoft to download the latest version of Silverlight.

    Ther are blogs that go into this quite clearly. However I have not heard much about this recently. This might be fore several reasong including, people giving up using moonlight, the sites being changed to accept moonlight as a valid display susbsystem as well as silverlight . I am sure that there are other. I don't know as I rarely visit sites (since I encountered the above situation) that use either (or heavy flash for that matter). I won't install Silverlight on my Mac either. I just don't need it.

    Still, I don't call the above situation interoperable at all. As I say, it might not be a problem any longer.

    --
    I'd rather be riding my '63 Triumph T120.