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Bing Search Tainted By Pro-Microsoft Results
bdcny7927 writes "Just as Bing is gaining popularity, some disturbingly pro-Microsoft and anti-Apple search results are rearing their ugly heads. Case in point: a search on Bing for the phrase, 'Why is Windows so expensive?' returned this as the top link: 'Why are Macs so expensive.' That's right. You're not hallucinating."
Surprised, why?
I am not stubborn. I am right!
...are you really surprised?
THL phish sticks
Shocking.
It seems that Don't be Evil is not the corporate motto of Microsoft.
It makes you appreciate google, despite their mildly objectionable data collection/profiling.
Search string: "Why is Windows so expensive?"
Results:
* ...
Microsoft to offer Family Pack for Windows 7 Home Premium | TalkBack
If so don't PC users ask WHY is Windows so expensive? Cheapest upgrade for Win 7 is 50 and that's temporarily for early adopters (119 later) Snow Leopard is only 29 for all Leopard ...
o talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12354-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=66314&messageID=1250260
o Cached page
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MacNN | Acer: Home Premium is the real Vista
"Hmmm, I'll have to think about that... Why is Windows so expensive?" "That's the Microsoft tax." "Doesn't e v e r y b o d y use Windows?" "Not anymore."
o www.macnn.com/articles/06/10/27/acer.on.windows.vista
o Cached page
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Do you need more than Windows 7 Home Premium? | TalkBack on ZDNet
If so don't PC users ask WHY is Windows so expensive? Cheapest upgrade for Win 7 is 50 and that's temporarily for early adopters (119 later) Snow Leopard is only 29 for all Leopard ...
o talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12354-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=66219&messageID=1249894
o Cached page
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Rittman Mead Consulting Blog Archive Virtually there
I suppose the next thing is to build a Windows VM for the stuff that needs Microsoft Windows (OBI SE-ONE, for example) - but why is Windows so expensive to license? ...
o www.rittmanmead.com/2007/11/21/virtually-there
o Cached page
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PC World Community: Hollywood's Victory Over The Pirate Bay
Why is Windows so expensive to buy in a box, when Dell can buy it in bulk for a couple dollars? How much money does Bill Gates need? What is fair trade? ...
o forums.pcworld.com/message/209250
o Cached page
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PC World Community: Windows XP User: I'm No Thief
At least I think it is. Why is windows so expensive in the first place? They're totally ripping us off!!
o forums.pcworld.com/thread/60075?start=30&tstart=0
o Cached page
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ffextensionguru.wordpress.com - Traffic Details from Alexa
why is windows so expensive; new tab homepage; guru blog; the book of mozilla; mozilla weekly; ie 8 windows update; primo pdf; tabs open relative; flash player updates
o www.alexa.com/siteinfo/ffextensionguru.wordpress.com
I don't care why you're posting AC
At least google doesn't (accept money to) meddle with search results or allow companies to directly pay for higher ranking search results for certain queries. I guess that idea has been such a part of what made google so big early on, in addition to other things, that we blindly assume that unbiased results is a basic prerequisite for being a modern search engine. It is the something that separates real, genuine attempts at search engines and those domain squatters and malware redirected wannabe search engines.
Way to go Microsoft! Without you, we might forget what separates the Men from the Boys.
... why are Macs so expensive?
No dude, Their search algorithm sucks.
Google also puts "Why are Macs so expensive?" on the first page of its search, although the first 4 hits are for various Microsoft products including Windows and Office. Frankly, this is the standard sensationalist crap that Slashdot excels at now a days... Hey Slashdot, how about covering the fact that KDE 4.3 was just released today? Oh I forgot, this site is about nitpicking and hating everything Microsoft does, while still secretly using there software and never contributing anything of value to open-source.
AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
This is like saying the boss wont give you a raise if he doesn't have to....really...?
We all know what monster M$ can be, why bother giving us info on stuff we know they do anyways....
like force updates when we dont want them, force uploads of crap even if we say no to the upload...
they control the OS, so unless you go linux, you have no rights on your computer, no say in what goes in or out!
There was an article recently about how bing was using humans to better their search results. I think this was MS's excuse to provide pro-MS results.
That's why I have often taken my car to repair shops that are nothing but repair shops, not gas stations or tire stores or whatever doing car repair on the side. They have to live on the basis of their car repairs, and they are likely to pay attention to that, and if they do bad repairs they will go out of business.
Similarly, Google lives by its search engine, and people at Google know it. There is nothing more important to Google than returning good search results, and if somebody else starts returning better ones Google is in deep trouble.
It won't take much for me to conclude that a search engine operated by somebody like Microsoft or Apple is biased. A biased search engine isn't going to get me the results I want (unless, I guess, I agree with the bias, but in that case I run the risk of learning nothing and simply being confirmed in my ignorance). If Microsoft wants me to use Bing, they're going to have to be extra careful to avoid the appearance of bias.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
I seriously did. I actually went to bing and searched Why is Windows so expensive?. I Cannot believe the results but, you wanna know what I find even more hilarious... The fact that this post on /. just upped Bing's visitors over a thousand times more then they have ever gotten before.
Try it yourself on Bing -- it is not the top result. About five down.
Now try on Google -- the "Why Are Macs So Expensive?" result is there on the first page.
Two different search engines, both returning the same result on the first page about Mac's being expensive. Slightly different order, hardly indicative of tampering, but definitive proof that Mac's are costly!
For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother.
Is there a way to mod the entire article down? That would be a useful feature.
...if MS starts picking on the iPhone app store approval process.
For example Expedia. Perhaps travel queries are tainted too. And who knows what else.
This whole topic is a troll. Look, Xboxen are expensive, Microsoft Windows is f*cking expensive, and apparently, Microsoft sucks. I rest my case.
There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
BS. Google for the same exact search gives much more relevant results.
1. Why Windows Vista and Office 2007 are so Expensive  The Firefox ...
.
.
2. Is Windows getting more expensive? - CNET News
3. Windows 7 to be âoemore expensiveâ than Vista, XP
4. Writing on the Wall: Why Windows is so expensive
The above results would be useful to anyone genuinely interested in the expensive-ness of Windows.
Life is about being a Phoenix!
Why do people insist on typing search terms such as "Why is Windows so expensive?" into Internet search engines?
"Ask Jeeves" is dead. Long dead. Are these searches the deceased valet's legacy, somehow persisting like the grinning teeth of a decayed corpse?
Or is there some language instinct in people that can't quite be eradicated, even though a more sensible search would yield much better results?
It's by no means exhaustive, but I was saying to someone yesterday how refreshing it was searching for terms that probably should have come up with an MS product, but actually came up with what I was after instead.
I especially liked how searching for a postcode came up with a link to Streetmap as the first result, rather than MS's Multimap.
Big non-story here... Bing is going to be influenced by a lot of factors, but the same search on Google turns up Bing's top result in it's top ten. I doubt there is any bias going on here... to program such a bias would be impossible (context detection is still difficult to determine, programatically), and skewing the data for specific searches would be impractical.
If we were talking single-word phrases, I might be convinced, but phrases push this conspiracy theory into implausibility.
Stories like this is getting pretty lame, same entry is showing up on googles first page as well.
http://www.intellipool.se/ - Intellipool Network Monitor
But the results for the query 'Why is Windows so buggy? are right on target.
I seem to recall that searching for anything related to a Google product will return Google's product at or near the top.
That couldn't be because you searched for a Google product could it? If you do a search for "gmail sucks" the results are comparable, though.
why windows sucks give at least more neutral responses :D
Famous last words:"but...."
Except that putting that same query to Google will give this result in the first page:
http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/apple/why-are-macs-so-expensive--609128
Why would I use another search engine when I can use Google?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Because I just don't think MS has the technology to pull this off. Bing/ Live search just suck. I get better answers by asking my cat and she only responds with "meow" if my question has the word "treat" in it.
It's not specifically pro-MS or anti-Apple. It's just that whatever their ranking algorithm is rates yahoo answers as a better source than other sites. Search engines have to weight sites somehow; if all sources of pages were equally good authorities, we'd all still be using altavista.
is competition good, or is duplication of effort bad?
I conducted some other tests on Bing
'windows worse than osx' returned top results on how OSX is worse than Window$.
'windows worse than linux' returned a similar 'pro Window$' result.
'windows more vulnerable than linux' did the same
It is fairly blatently pro-M$ in M$ vs. OSx vs. Linux type searches.
Anyone surprised?
"You can't really dust for vomit" --Nigel Tufnel
Given the wealth and power involved, did you really expect them to respect fair play?
Google does. The only reason Microsoft can't is its long standing corporate greed; the same kind of greed that will have a monkey stick his hand in a jar for a treat, and since he won't let go of the treat and his fist won't fit through the jar's neck, he's stuck.
That's proably why (IMO, YMMV) their software sucks so badly. This is what I expected from bing and I'm surprised that anybody else was surprised.
I also wasn't surprised to find at work that although I have IE's default search set to Google, when I typed a URL without the HTTP:// it gave bing search results page instead of a Google search results page. Like the late Lilly Tomlin's telephone operator character said smugly back when AT&T was the only phone company, "We're the phone company. We don't have to!
I think it's pathetic.
Free Martian Whores!
I tried searching for "Why is windows so expencive?" using firefox in Linux and got these results:
"Why I use Windows? | Windows Server 2008 and Microsoft virtualization ..."
"Why Windows Isn't Hell Or Why Linux Isn't Bliss, Part II > Comments"
"The Firefox 3.5 fiasco - Frans Bouma's blog"
at the 3 top. I think it's safe to say that I'll stay with Google.
The same type of thing happens in MS Word. It recognizes 'XBox360' as a word, but if one types 'Playstation' it gets flagged as a misspelling. And don't even get me started on Wii.....
I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
If I google: why is google so bad
The first page it returns is "Google Wave: Why it's so good and enterprise software is so bad".
Where's the article on this? This is just inane Microsoft bashing that comes off as incredibly petty.
Different search engines produce different results. Footage at 11.
This story is pretty lame. Microsoft has been doing an ad campaign on how expensive Macs are. You can likely find lots of pages that mention it and Windows at the same time. The specific story mentioned also appears in a Google search for the same thing.
You remember back when "miserable failure" would return Whitehouse.gov as its first hit? I'm sure that was a conspiracy inside the search results too.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
Using "Why is Windows so expensive?" in double quotes produces far different results than 'Why is Windows so expensive?' in single quotes in a Bing search. Using the double quote method produces some results that speak to Microsoft's OS being expensive.
At least "Who is more evil than Satan himself" search provides accurate and timely information.
What could possibly go wrong?
Did a few searches on Bing, searched for various linux topics, including Ubuntu; Windows vs Linux; etc; and the results seem pretty unbiased.
I tried it out my self...just to see and yes both return a similar CNET article about Windows but BING also has several search results about why OSS is expensive and why MAC's are so expensive. I believe this is a note worthy topic but it is no different than comparing FOX and CNBC or CBC (in Canada) or Global (again in Canada) search engines are now part of what we call MASS MEDIA. however why they do not create the news or anything of that sort they do however, search and display the results of the query and that can be and often is manipulated. We (society) need to start re-defining what MASS MEDIA is and realize that we can and are manipulated by more than T.V, Newpaper, and radio since more and more news is being accessed on-line and the competition for dollars heats up of course we are going to see this type of manipulation of search results. It is sad and reason I switched to google in its early years was it gave me what I wanted but now maybe another search engine will come up but it too will eventually be manipulated as it grows in popularity.
Hi David ;)
Google is in the advertisment-business. Search engine development does not generate revenue on its own. And there is a conflict of interest: There is a strong incentive for Google to make AdblockPlus less visible.
a more sensible search would yield much better results
Go on, we're listening.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Typed in "why are microsoft products insecure?". 3rd hit: "Why use open source when Microsoft products are so inexpensive?"! Also why mac books are so expensive. and it gets worse after that.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Because if Microsoft reads it, expect a call from their lawyers for libel very very soon.
I dislike Microsoft and don't use most of their products, and have often been modded troll/flamebait for anti-Microsoft comments: HOWEVER: ONE example does not mean it's biased. I tried with several others and like many slashdotters I can't seem to find a bias. Now if the whole point of this article was to get more hits on bing - how desperate can you get?
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Also when you type "who has the biggest penis in the world" returns the cv of Bill Gates. Typing "who has the smallest penis in the world" results in the cv of Steve Jobs. What are they thinking of over at Microsoft!
I tried out http://www.blackdog.ie/google-bing/ to see if the issue is consistent. I tried Is Apple Evil? and got inaccurate results on Bing. It might be censoring or might be that bing sucks at open ended questions. I would not be surprised if its the latter or both.
Why does windows Suck? => Windows and microsoft results, no macs in sight
Why is windows insecure? => Windows and Microsoft results, no macs in sight.
Put quotes around the question, i.e. "Why is windows so expensive?", and Bing only returns Windows results. But looking at these results, they are not big hitter sites. I am no big Windows fan (using Linux anytime I have a choice) but I just don't think there is that much discussion about how expensive Windows is out there. The expense of Macs is always discussed.
Check out the Google fights if you don't believe me:
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=%22Why+is+windows+so+expensive%22&word2=%22Why+are+macs+so+expensive%22
I don't know what algorithm is used to rank results by Bing, but it doesn't seem to be pro Windows in general, only with that particular search.
Nothing to see here, move along....
(1) Macs are more expensive. (2) People write more about "Why Macs are so expensive" (3) "Why windows is so expensive" matches 3/5 words. QED
As if Google doesn't return 'tainted' results.
As in preferring to show you results first that either bought the placement, or buy ads and so bought the placement 'second-hand', so to speak.
Sorry, but this is so not really much news, and not very unique, and predictable. I'm suspicious of all search results, and being in the top 2 or 3, for me, is sort of like meeting the new, gorgeous, humpable supervisor and making them prove themselves - on the assumption that they are somebody's squeeze, and got the job via a horizontal interview. I hate it, and try to hide it. And yes, sometimes perfectly incompetent people get the job cause they interview great and not because they 'knew' somebody. I even get search results that are genuinely useful and appropriate. Sometimes. And everybody is entitled to try to make a buck.
Call me cynical. It suits me better than being taken advantage of naively.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
And in other news, lesbians are reported to widely reject the sexual advances of men. Is theis mere coincidence, or indication of an emergent paradigm?
When Bing first came out I checked with "Micro$oft" which came out with absolutely no relevant results. Though it seems to been updated since.
---
Why is Windows on a Mac SOOOoooooOooooo expensive?
like who could not see that coming. only the clueless and those that willfully ignore microsoft's history
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
seems as though cio.com became slashdotted, to a crawl or not responding.
You won't get it from Microsoft because they have too much riding on other things and nearly everything somehow links back to Windows+Office. (Okay, XBox related stuff doesn't so much...)
Google's first and foremost thing is search stuff. If they can't do that in a fair and balanced manner, then they are finished in that business. Google isn't without problems and complaints, but rarely is it quite like this. And when Google's results are "paid for" they are effectively indicated as such so that there is truth in their results.
For Microsoft to become a serious competitor with Google, they will have to become serious about each and every endeavor they make instead of using it to serve and support their primary interests. It is hard to trust Microsoft to deliver honest results when their reputation is demonstrably self-serving.
FWIW, I modified the test search by changing "windows" to "microsoft windows" thereby attempting to prevent the search from being able to weasel out of delivering the answers I seek. Once again, the first result is the same, but subsequent results are more relevant. I also did similar linux related searches and the first results were leaning similarly in Microsoft's favor.
Most people here are saying "it should be expected that they would do that." But should it really? In anything I do, I expect to do the best I can without compromising quality in any way for any reason. When you start making those compromises, things are no longer the best they can be. Should we expect compromised results integrity? Most people are ridiculously naive and gullible. Should we expect nearly everyone to take advantage of those people at every turn? I don't think it is ever good to expect people or companies to do "bad things" and then dismiss it when they satisfy those expectations.
This thread will be tainted with my AC flamebait comment.
There, fixed that for ya.
Free Martian Whores!
Search Results
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See a preview of the shared page ... ... My copy of Windows XP software is sitting in my closet in the same packaging (or lack thereof) it came in from the shop that built my system ... ... more people use Windows, so what? More people drive cheap ..... Windows is certainly getting more expensive, no doubt about that. ... ... "Dell has received their Windows 7 pricing from Microsoft!" Did you get it yet? Dell has their Windows 7 prices so there is no second ... ... ... ... ... ... ... The reason it's so expensive is because it's incredibly thin and light, ...
1.
Why Windows Vista and Office 2007 are so Expensive The Firefox
Oct 31, 2006
ffextensionguru.wordpress.com/.../why-windows-vista-and-office-2007-are-so-expensive/ - Cached - Similar -
2.
Is Windows getting more expensive? - CNET News
Feb 27, 2007
news.cnet.com/...Windows...expensive/2100-1016_3-6162370.html - Cached - Similar -
3.
Windows 7 to be "more expensive" than Vista, XP
May 19, 2009
apcmag.com/windows-7-to-be-more-expensive-than-vista-xp.htm - Cached - Similar -
4.
Writing on the Wall: Why Windows is so expensive
Today I think I finally understood why Windows is so expensive. A few people have suggested that it is superior to other operating systems, and well worth
mwcaveman.blogspot.com/.../why-windows-is-so-expensive.html - Cached - Similar -
5.
Why are vinyl windows so expensive? who provides them cheapest
Why are vinyl windows so expensive? who provides them cheapest? Find answers to this and many other questions on Trulia Voices, a community for you to find
www.trulia.com/.../Why_are_vinyl_windows_so_expensive_who_provides_t-5497 - Cached - Similar -
6.
Omfg Vista Is So Expensive - Windows Vista and Windows 7
10 posts - 5 authors - Last post: Dec 6, 2006
Omfg Vista Is So Expensive - Windows Vista and Windows 7 Community and Forum - Our Windows Vista and Windows 7 forum is the place for
www.daniweb.com/forums/thread63749.html - Cached - Similar -
7.
Why is the IBM thinkpad x301 laptop so expensive with mediocre
Anything with an AMD or Intel processor running Windows is IBM compatible,
answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid... - Cached - Similar -
8.
Why 5.1 speakers are so expensive - Club CDFreaks - Knowledge is Power
Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite (TM)
by searching the terms why does Microsoft suck. it doesn't seem to be pro Microsoft propaganda. http://www.bing.com/search?q=why+does+microsoft+suck&go=&form=QBLH&qs=n
This morning, our dear leader Steve Ballmer is unveiling our completely new search service, unrelated to anything we at Microsoft have ever done before: Bob Hope.
We spent lots of time listening to you, except when you told us how much MSN Search^WLive Search^WKumo sucked 'cause you're just wrong about that, to learn which buzzwordy Web 2.0 thingies you use search for today. Finding a webpage that has anything to do with the search terms you entered is so passe, dahling.
So today we're introducing a new kind of search, that goes beyond traditional search engines that do tedious things like find stuff, to instead help you make faster, more informed decisions. (Windows 7 is peachy keen, by the way.) We think of Bob Hope as a Decision Engine. We've sued Stephen Wolfram into atomic dust using our patents on FAT and Mono, co-opted the Wolfram Alpha engine and swapped Mathematica for Visual Basic and Wolfram's brain for the exhumed corpse of Bob Hope.
So why did we pick Bob Hope as the new core of our search? We needed a brand that was as fresh and new as our approach. A name that was memorable, short, easy to spell, and that would function well as a URL around the world.
And just look at these results!
What do we want?
Braaains.
When do we want them?
Braaains.
What do I need to run Windows 7?
Braaains.
What's Bill Gates got that means you should buy everything you can from the company he founded?
Braaains.
What's the final proof of Steve Ballmer's equal genius to Steve Jobs?
Vistaaa.
This is something new, something improved! You need to try it! It'll give so much more betterer results than that other search engine we can't name because Steve will wedge another chair up our butts! Please, come and try our new and improved service! FOR GOD'S SAKE TRY THE DAMN SERVICE. OR THE PUPPY GETS IT. We're Microsoft. We're serious as a heart attack on this one.
http://rocknerd.co.uk
"Ask Jeeves" is dead. Long dead.
It's been reincarnated as "ask.com".
Free Martian Whores!
'Are macs better than pcs?'
Shameless plug alert: Game server control panel
I just searched "Why is Windows 7 so expensive?" and got the result the summary mentioned.
Although my second hit was "Why Linux will crush Windows 7". I call it a wash.
No sig for you!!
if you google the same term. The first page on google has the "why is macs so expensive result. So take it with a grain of salt.
I compared bing and google searches for: OS/2 is better than windows
The results are amazing to me. Bing practically screams a hand coded result and case for Windows superiority to every other O/S on the planet!
Yes, but doing the same search, "Why is Windows so expensive?" on Google gives the "Why are Macs so expensive?" article on the first page of results.
Seen this, it's easy to find, especially in smaller non-urban areas.
All I have to do is search for "Mac tech support + my area code" , or "Apple tech support + my area code" to see this.
There are 2 Apple Authorized providers in my area, myself and one other small shop.
Bing returns results for a bunch of hole-in-the-wall computer shops, some I've never even heard of, none are Apple Authorized. All but one of their sites fail to mention *anything* about Apple or Macs.
Which is why I don't/won't use Bing.
Screw you Ballmer!!! *shakes fist*
Now I understand what they meant by bing being a "decision engine."
Apparently wizard is not a legitimate career path, so I chose programmer instead.
Heck, try a comparison for Red Hat between Bing [bing.com] and Google [google.com]. You'd think that the Red Hat Society had their own linux distribution targeted a little old ladies... At least there's a little more reference to Linux now than last time I checked a month or so ago...
I don't like sigs... I don't use it...
Searching for "Why is windows so popular" returns a top hit of: HowStuffWorks "What is Linux and why is it so popular?" I am not sure that either Google or Microsoft are trying to bash each other. I think that there are just a lot more people who want to know why macs are expensive and the search engine pushes it to the top.
Excuse me, but isn't the reason Microsoft has been complaining to the DoJ, claiming that Google is unfairly tainting results towards Google?
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
If you search for the same string on google, the result for "Why are Mac's so expensive" comes up on the very first page. Seems like just different algorithms to me.
But you didn't ask about Mac or OS X in the query. Also, try "Why is OSX better than Windows Vista?" and you get the same thing. The very first link is literally titled "Five reasons why Vista beats Mac OS X ". The second link sort of answers my question, but only about viruses.
If you search for "why is Windows expensive," you should get results showing pages that contain that text or something similar. Whether or not Windows is actually expensive is beside the point.
A search engine is there to show you pages that resemble what you typed. It is not there to argue with you, even if you're wrong. You can search Google for "why Obama is a cat" and it will at least try to find pages that resemble your query.
Does Google censor it's results too? Let's see:
Try getting Google to "Be evil".
Uncensored!
Is it perhaps possible that this is one of those cases where reality is interceding on behalf of Microsoft? The other day someone asked me to review a Macbook Pro they wanted to purchase and Apple was charging $1,000 to go from 4GB to 8GB and advertising it as if 4GB were enough for web browsing, email, and word processing... but if you wanted to get the most out of your PC, you need 8GB. I was torn between wanting to boycott apple and wanting to buy their stock.
Windows is a term that could be related to Macs. Any article that talks about the pricing of either needs to compare it against the other to have any meaning. At least one Why-are-Macs-so-expensive article makes the google list. Given that Macs are insanely expensive compared to PCs I would guess that there would be more articles explaining the cost of Macs versus the other way around.
The term "Why Does Windows Still Suck?" seems to still work fine. Phew, I was afraid of that one.
Flexible bare-metal recovery for Linux/UNIX
Nobody is complaining about vinyl windows coming up as the third item. try "Why is MS windows so expensive?"
If anything it looks like bing is injecting synonyms in its results and actually brings up more interesting links than google....
love is just extroverted narcissism
Nothing new here... nothing to see...
Actually, I know this guy who works at Microsoft. I talk to him sometimes. He is not entirely brainwashed yet, but getting close, so I decided to kick his dreams from under him. He was bragging about the fact that internally they have a search engine at M$ that gives you both the Google results and the M$ result side by side and that employees are urged to report instances in which Google provides better answers. He was claiming that this way they were making rapid improvements.
Since he obviously didnt get the point, I sat him down behind a computer and asked him to type "downgrade Vista XP" in the searchbox on both engines and look at the answers. Actually, looking at his face I could tell that he could smell the trouble in advance. Of course he had to agree with me that getting two pages worth of results discussing the advantages and disadvantages of such a move before getting a decent howto on Bing was obviously quite a bit less useful than getting a howto in the first result as is the case at Google.
Now I asked him: Do you think this will change if you report it? He didn't think it would change. So I told him: This is why you will never win this war. Bing is so obviously biased that anybody in his right mind can see it.
To my surprise he agreed... And confided in me a bit that many within M$ think the same way. Mostly lower management and engineers tho. So my question is: Is the higher management layer at M$ so blind they cannot see the problem or are they thinking this problem will go away for some reason?
He couldn't say... We had another beer and left it at that...
We could test this theory by trying to perform a Bing Bomb. Everyone post on every forum they can, on all their forums, on various pages they host, etc. a specific term.
Maybe, "What city has the highest Linux usage per capita" and Bing Bomb it to say Redmond.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
It appears that BING injects synonyms in its results and overall they are more interesting than googles....
love is just extroverted narcissism
Google.com:
... why are macbooks so expensive i mean i saw a better windows p"
Why Windows Vista and Office 2007 are so Expensive
http://www.google.com/search?q=why+is+windows+so+expensive%3F
Yahoo.com:
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=why+is+windows+so+expensive%3F&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz35
why so expensive? "... Windows Forums
Answers.com:
WikiAnswers: Why are Mac's so expensive?
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?s=why+is+windows+so+expensive%3F&gwp=13
Ask.com
Why Windows Vista and Office 2007 are so Expensive
http://www.ask.com/web?q=why+is+windows+so+expensive%3F&search=search&qsrc=0&o=0&l=dir
Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine -- Robert C. Gallagher
Great - the first entry on the question "Why is windows so expensive" in the german version is "GerhardÂs Marktbeobachtungen : Why is OSS Commercial Software So expensive". That's Gerhards market survey, thought his name was Bill.
We may have the first recorded instance of Bing Bombing.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
First 2 results:
"Why is Microsoft truely better than Apple?"
"Anything Apple Can Do, Microsoft Can Do Better..."
After years of not using a signature, I am going to make one to say the following: Fuck Beta
So I just searched for Why is Microsoft Windows so expensive?.
Yes, the first result is Why are Mac's So Expensive?, BUT reading the actual text of the first 4 hits displayed on the Bing page, it goes like this:
So, if you look more closely, those results are actually pretty devastating to Windows. I don't think there's an actual bias here, just poor phrase parsing technology at work.
... they're not as obvious going about it as they were in the past.
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
when google does this it's considered cute.
Example of Google doing this?
Or I'm hallucinating, too.
See, I have entered the same query, and lo and behold:
ALL RESULTS ... ...
ALL RESULTS1-10 of 4,130,000 resultsAdvanced
Microsoft Windows: software and services as unique as you are
Why is Microsoft even offering Windows 7 Ultimate?
Why Does Windows Still Suck? / Why do PC users put up with so many
Why Windows 7 on Netbooks Won't Save Microsoft -- RoughlyDrafted
Why Windows 7 is Microsoft's next Zune -- RoughlyDrafted Magazine
Why not Windows | www.getgnulinux.org
Compare Windows vs Linux | Microsoft Windows Server
Microsoft Announces Windows 7 Pricing. Is It Too Expensive?
I just did this test on Bing, and the first page was all howtos. The first few hits were identical for Bing and Google.
You know, if Microsoft is all about making Bing's results match Google's, why not just use Google and avoid the middleman?
http://www.bing.com/search?q=why+are+macs+so+great&go=&form=QBRE&qs=n
They're using their grammar skills there.
This is the result of an algorithmic cockup that people are blowing entirely out of proportion, not a ridiculous conspiracy.
it found stories on "How to fix Windows crashes in minutes" (In seconds: "Pull the plug" :-) and "Why is my FireFox crashing so often?"
Oh yeah, those are trustworthy results... :-)
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Could it be that mac and windows are parallel terms... items within a category?
My search for "Why is pizza so expensive?" brought up generic things like pizza and brand names like Domino's and Papa John's. Does Bing know that Domino's and Papa John's both make pizza? "Why is $term so expensive?" isn't enough information to bring up pizza joint after pizza joint. Those links wouldn't show if i searched "Why is skiing so expensive?"
Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
...porn.
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/06/15/2245215
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Sheesh, I'm getting tired of seeing all the things Microsoft screws up so often. Okay no, I lied -- I'm not. But seriously, think about how much publicity they get because of all the crap they pull. Think the "any publicity is good publicity" paradigm applies?
And does anyone even remember that Google gives you more popular choices to your search string first, after a while?
This is only relevant if MS threw out all of the data they were using to run the search engine before it was Bing
However, MSN Search from 1998 became Windows Live Search, which became Live Search, which became Bing. Only the Name is New.
Besides this is the same company that is artificially inflating it's Market Share numbers for Bing by spamming web sites with fake search referrals. Is it really any surprise that they'd manipulate search results for their own advantage as well?
They can do what they want, it's their search engine, but I won't even be giving the thing a try if I don't believe I can trust the results of their search.
Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde
Change the search to, "Why is your mom so expensive?" and the first result is "Why Are Bulldog Puppies So Expensive" but somehow I doubt that Microsoft is "pro-your mom" and "anti-bulldog" puppies.
Pro-Apple FUD Alert
Hmm, and if you use google to search for the same thing, at the bottom of the page is has 'Apple So Expensive' as related searches. A Why is Mac So Expensive shows up on the second page of the google search.
Is this the only example you have of 'Microsoft Tainted Search Results'?
Go to the back of the line.....
Sean
It's supposed to show you which pages resemble what you typed. Yes, and 'Macs are more expensive than Windows' does resemble 'Windows is more expensive than Macs' . They are basically a permutation of the words. If there are many pages saying Macs are more expensive than Windows and none saying the opposite ( because it's actually true that Macs are more expensive than Windows ) then they SHOULD pop up in response to the query.
...
I asked Bing "Why does Microsoft bias their search results?"
The top link returned was
"Why are you still living in your parents' basement, whining your days away? Do something with your life."
I call foul. But then again, Google gives me the same search result.
If you're asking a search engine "why," you're doing it wrong.
It's probably going to parse out everything but "Windows" and "expensive" anyway, and then search on those keywords, which (surprise) will show up on a bunch of pages that aren't related to what you're looking for. At that point, it's just up to the engine to decide which ones are most relevant, and apparently Bing's relevancy algorithm or data (or both) suck.
--Jeremy
Jesus was a liberal
I'm thinking of generic terms like e-mail, spreadsheet, android
Fire insurance.
Because Mac users are so pretentious.
Because Macs are so expensive.
/^([Ss]ame [Bb]at (time, |channel.)){2}$/
Devil's advocate...
Microsoft is advertising Bing as an aid to making decisions, not necessarily a search engine. So from the Microsoft perspective, someone searching for "why is windows so expensive" is looking into making a purchase and the "why are macs so expensive" result helps them in their decision to make their purchase.
That doesn't make it any better, but to simply return results matching the original query doesn't do anything to make them stand out over Google. The ideal results would have probably covered Linux, netbooks, Macs, physical windows, and Windows itself.
Guys, guys, guys. This makes PERFECT sense. Apple sells expensive computers, therefore Microsoft can still out compete them by selling at only say $50 less (the actually reduce the price even more). PC hardware is generally much cheaper since there is more competition between hardware firms, so Microsoft can charge through the nose for their OS without fear of retribution. Thus, to understand why Windows is so expensive, you first must understand why Macs are so expensive, and then you must ask, what the hell is wrong with american since normally when they can get something for free (in dollars regardless of time) they will ALWAYS take that option. Answer: Microsoft still has so much market power that a free alternative does not seem attractive.
Looks like someone at Microsoft is keeping their ear to the ground
Go to Google and type in the search field: windows suc
Look at the drop-down suggestions.
Now do the same with Bing.
Works with US English settings of both Google and Bing. Other versions tend to behave differently.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3604/3585051300_d23a37a32e_o.png
"'Yrch!' said Legolas, falling into his own tongue."
To Bing's credit, searching for "Miserable Failure" still links to an image of George Bush.
Google has substituted something else. Go Bing! At least we know Bing's results are web, circa 2004.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
I find it intersting that just about every search engine returns the same result for Why are Mac's so expensive usually in the 5 results. Could it be that people actually search for why macs are so expensive or possibly this is a popular article or web site that would return a high ranking result from any search algorithm? Do your own research 2 articles on the first page of several serach engines returns results for macs, the rest have to do with microsoft windows and regular home windows that you may be staring out now.
http://www.blackdog.ie/google-bing
I can say [REDACTED] anytime I want!
"Looking out of the windows of the expensive Manhattan apartment..." satisfies the query results and seems like MS is deflecting results. The problem is compounded by MS using common nouns like "Windows" or "explorer" or "server" or "word" or "works" for their product names. I search for results on "sql server" and it brings up Oracle's SQL server and the Postgres SQL server and Sybase and all of the others. "Why is SQL Server expensive" could come up with any number of rival software companies simply due to this quirk of the marketing department.
I honestly don't think it's that intentional. "Why are Macs so expensive" legitimately could contain a comparison "... makes Macs more expensive than Windows". In this case, both brands are equal distance from "expensive", so the article would seem to be relevant to either result. Simply including "more expensive than Windows" makes it even more likely that an algorithm which includes distance thinks it is relevant to Windows more so than Macs.
--
A pet theory of mine I'm still working on: Looks like google weights certain words, and Bing hasn't learned this yet (or gets it wrong).
For example, you want to search "Why is Windows so expensive". The top-weighted words should be the noun "Windows", followed by "expensive". You don't want one without the other.
Since you're looking for an explanation, "why" should also carry a small weight. It's more likely to answer your question if the page has "and that's why windows is..." or "A lot of people asked my why... and so here is my answer" or the rhetorical "Why is ...?" or even "which is why..." So you seemingly get Bing results of "expensive" without the "windows" part.
I would expect a subtitle or heading to have more weight than text in the article, so maybe MS is not weighting H1 more than normal P or SPAN or DIV text. Overall, i think it's just a dismal failure of the algorithm due to immaturity rather than anything intentional.
the Chinese word for disease = Bing! think about it....
Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence. I don't think Bing is biased, it's just dumb. If you simply consider word frequency and ignore the meaning derived from the proximity and word order, it's not surprising that searching for Why is Microsoft Windows so expensive leads to pages entitled "Why are Macs so expensive".
There really are more web pages out there complaining about Macs being expensive (Why are Macs so expensive has 13.3 million Google hits) than complaining about Microsoft Windows being expensive (Why is Microsoft Windows so expensive has 3.3 million Google hits). Furthermore, almost every single Mac article mentions Windows somewhere. If you wrote a naive search engine, you would probably get the same results as Bing.
As for why Bing yields "Why is commercial OSS so expensive", consider it a compliment that Bing holds Slashdot in such high regard.
The real story here is that Bing isn't evil, it's just lame.
Looks like they take out some of these biased filters result filters after being exposed. let's see how they can regain our trust. Be sure to check out our shopping cart when making a purchase using their money back campaign.
I work for a large bank... suddenly, our mandated IE 7, which used to allow you to add other search engines, now only allows Bing. (in the search bar.. it isn't like they've blocked Google). But it is still quite annoying, and things like this don't get deployed by accident to thousands of employees.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
So Bing is being reviled just because it's telling the truth and is ignoring damned lies about windows?
I suspect that if I told it Google again it would, but it isn't FUD. I mistyped a URL yesterday and bing came up.
Free Martian Whores!
"Just as Bing is gaining popularity" Citation needed.
"Why is iPod better than Zune?"
Go ahead, you know you want to try...
Microsoft openly advertises there Bing! product as "The first ever decision engine." Why is anyone surprised by these results. From the very first stories on launch day about the tainted results of searching phrases like 'MySQL' or 'linux' to this.
At least this time Microsoft isn't lying about what the product does. They just left out the part about the decision having been made already for you, by them.
It's unsurprising that Bing would reflect a Microsoft centric view - Microsoft employees wrote it and Microsoft employees were the first to test its algorithms. It probably was seeded on Microsoft sites and MS content probably gets extra positive modifiers, including things like Microsoft's MSDN, Blogs, etc. Google has been working with a lot more shares of the search engine pool and for a longer time, so theoretically, they are able to refine their processes for indexing and searching better. Also, it's 80-90% of Google's business, whereas Microsoft has several other business units making money.
Microsoft going after Ad revenue has more avenues such as XBox 360 and Zune HD and Windows Mobile and Hotmail and MSN also it has partnerships with Yahoo and Facebook. Google has YouTube and GMail and Google Apps and it has the AdSense platform and Blogger and Orkut.
Microsoft does have more resources. Obviously, the results will reflect what Microsoft spends its resources on, and Microsoft has indicated publicly that this is an area it will continue to invest resources on until it wins, and it apparently is winning market share at the moment.
Microsoft information from http://moneycentral.msn.com/companyreport?Symbol=US:MSFT
Employees: 93,000
Last 12M Sales: $58.4B
Income: $14.6B
Google information from http://moneycentral.msn.com/companyreport?Symbol=US:GOOG
Employees: 19,786
Last 12M Sales: $22.3B
Income: $4.6B
I use Bing for entertainment. I enjoy going over and typing in "abramoff microsoft cagw" or "abramoff microsoft cagw massachusetts".
1. It only takes a minute to lose it. 2. Once it's gone, it's gone forever. Oh Microsoft. I knew I should have stayed with my old search browser...
Why do you have to answer a question with a question?
Why do you have to ask me questions?
I expected similar results, but perhaps M$ is not as worried about Linux as their SEC filings say.
it seems pretty obvious that this nutbag of a journalist simply typed in "why are mac's so expensive" and hit search, then typed in "why is windows so expensive" and left the results as they were for the screenshot. nothing to see here except some shoddy journalism.
-- Sex is the antonym of pringles. Once you pop it's time to stop.
Except the original query didn't mention Macs at all, and none of the results contained anything about Windows being expensive.
(Gomer Pyle voice)
Surprize, surprize!
(/)
Tag lost or not installed.
i'm not getting anything like that at all, in fact the first result is talking about osx selling faster than 7 on amazon...? screenshot: http://natefrogg.com/images/misc/derr/why_is_windows_so_expensive.jpg
I searched for "why is google so expensive?" on google (well, google.com.au) and the first result that came back was: "Why Is Windows So Expensive on NewsTrendz - Snapshot Results ..."
So, Microsoft is really just trying to compete with google search on the slams.
well... try "microsoft failure" and compare Bing results with Google. This speak a lot... a lot...
From now on, don't coun't on me from using Bing anymore.
works better than expected. In the relative question the main author did to the search engine, its answer is simplified as: m$ products cost money, apple products cost money, so choose gnu/linux \o/
This is ridiculous... nine out of the first ten hits are articles with the the words "Why is Windows so expensive" in the TITLE. The remaining hit is an article with the words "Why is Mac so expensive" in the TITLE and the word "Windows" in the BODY.
I don't think that's very pro-Microsoft, and exactly how search engines usually work.
For a comparison, search for "Why is Windows so good?" and look at the first page of hits:
* "If Windows PCs Are So Good, Why Does Microsoft Have to Lie About Them?"
...
* "Why windows takes so long to start up."
* "Why Does Windows Still Suck?"
Should we then conclude that Bing.com has been secretly hacked by Linux or Mac enthusiasts?
This is on the level with the "evidence" for conspiracy theories like the "fake moon landing" and "9/11 planned by CIA".
This site makes it easy to assess results from Google, Bing and Yahoo.
http://blindsearch.fejus.com/
It does the search server-side and all you see are 3 columns of results. You get to "vote" which suits you more, at which time the sources of the results are shown to you. Give it a try a few times, it's a very interesting exercise.
At least I can say I did some exercise this week.
Using the string indicated in the post, I tested this, 05:10 CDT on 08/08/09, and got results much the opposite (I'd do the whole copy-paste thing, but adding the paragraphs and breaks would take far too long--how about a screen grab? Here!
/. effect may have made Bill Gates shit his pants.
Please note, I'm no MS fanboi, I think the
I don't post AC. I like my -1, Flamebaits. Trump/Sheen 2012 on the Batshit Insane ticket!