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No Windows 7 XP Mode For Sony Vaio Z Owners
Voyager529 writes "While virtually every Core 2 Duo processor supports the hardware virtualization technology that powers the Windows 7 XP Mode, The Register UK reports that the Core 2 Duo processors in the Sony Vaio Z series laptops had the virtualization features intentionally crippled in the BIOS. Senior manager for product marketing Xavier Lauwaert stated that the QA engineers did this to make the systems more resilient against malicious code. He also stated that while they are considering enabling VT in some laptop models due to the backlash, the Z series are not among those being retrofitted."
Senior manager for product marketing Xavier Lauwaert stated that the QA engineers did this to make the systems more resilient against malicious code.
If they don't like Windows XP they can say so. Calling it malicious code will piss off Microsoft no end.
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Hey, it's Sony. What kind of customer support did you expect.
It's not like they've got a long history depicting a care for their customers, rootkits being only 1 example.
They probably want to protect their customers from Rootkits that some manufacturers put on their CDs: http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/10/31/2016223
If only there was some way to replace the BIOS, with some sort of flashing... I'm sure at some point they'll be a alternative firmware for those people silly enough to think that Sony would embrace anything that wasn't one of their proprietary formats.
Since DOS died the BIOS has been little more than a glorified POST. So why can't the OS just enable any features that the BIOS doesn't? Its not like any modern OS uses the BIOS once its up and running anyway - just some information the BIOS may have provided which the OS can double check for itself anyway.
::Sony BIOS SCREEN::
Virtualization: Disabled
Complimentary Rootkits: Enabled
In other news, Sony has decided to disable the second core in many of its dual-core models. Senior douchebag Joe Schmo defended the decision, saying "Often the second core just allows people to run malware in the background without noticing it."
Um, no thanks, Sony. How about you let your customers decide whether they want to turn off processor features?
"Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
...because we already know Sony is evil as hell and we don't buy their laptops.
And anybody who went and forgot that lesson deserves whatever abuse Sony heaps on 'em.
The virtual technology extensions of my Lenovo Thinkpass T400 has also been intentionally crippled. Sony isn't the only company making bad decisions with higher-end laptops.
Can the bios be re-flashed with something more useful?
I'd like to know if this is a purely commercial move or if there is actually technical merit to it ? I doubt this move actually will drive up sale but I think there is a case that older codes can be security problem.
"Senior manager for product marketing Xavier Lauwaert stated that the QA engineers did this to make the systems more profitable by creating an artificial differentiation we can use to charge more money for basically the same thing."
www.eFax.com are spammers
Comment removed based on user account deletion
This is exactly why I don't buy Sony products, whether it's a computer, camera, music, etc. Consumers have been burned by them enough times with their retarded proprietary formats, lawsuits, rootkits, and just an overall blatent disrespect for consumers that I'm surprised anyone buys their crap anymore.
When was the last time that a hardware fault contributed to malware on a typical PC that there are many thousands of varieties (as in, not a mobile device, and not a Mac, because there are only a few models of those). In 99.999% of malware cases they are flaws in the OS, user or programs. Not a flaw in the CPU, motherboard, RAM or monitor. And really Sony, why disable a feature that a lot of people might have bought a high-end laptop to have that in it? Not that I know why anyone would even think about buying an overpriced Vaio, but really, don't disable features and make it impossible or hard to re-enable.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
Just an fyi, the LinuxBIOS project was renamed Coreboot.
Sounds like, if you want to use VT, they will sell you a "different" laptop model, for probably 25-50% higher price, which is the exact same laptop with a BIOS that doesn't disable this feature.
Only 6 out of 11 of the 45nm Core2 duo chips support VT according to info on intel.com. That's not "virtually every".
Not nitpicking for the sake of it, just don't want people to assume that the Core2 they're intending to buy supports VT. Best to check.
Back in 2000, when Win2K was out and happy but the proles were stuck with Win98/ME, I decided I wanted a laptop.
There was a cheap Sony laptop with Win98/ME on it that looked good to me and was on sale. I checked, there was a version of the same laptop with Win2K available, but it was a few hundred dollars more if you could FIND it, and the UC CS dept had a site liscence/arrangement for Win2K.
So I figured, why not? Buy it at fry's, reinstall with a remotely tolerable Windows OS, be happy.
Get the laptop, blow away the Win98/ME crap, put on Win2K, only to find out that Sony locks all the drivers with BIOS strings and the like so the drivers from the Win2K version won't install on any other notebook, even when the chipsets and everything are identical!
Fortunately, Fry's had a good return policy. So rather than going hunting for manufacturer sites for drivers, I said, screw it, popped in the reimage disk, and restored it and returned it.
A few weeks later, I bought an IBM notebook off a friend with PowerBook envy, much prefering the IBM site wher you put in the model # on the bottom and you get every driver for every OS variant, including Linux, in a nice neat grid...
But even nearly a decade ago, Sony was gimping their laptops badly. Glad to see they are keeping THAT tradition alive...
Test your net with Netalyzr
Come from the marketing teams? Senior manager for product marketing Xavier Lauwaert http://www.b2blog.com/2006/dt040319.gif
My Acer Aspire 2930 laptop (Intel Core2Duo CPU) has the VT extensions disabled at BIOS level. Don't buy this model, and be aware of buying other models from Acer.
For sure I will not buy anything from Acer. In addition to the VT %$%$$%-ing, the laptop VGA output it is not properly shielded because of poor design, and produces a signal with a bit of flickering (to get a digital DVI output you have in addition to spend over 125 € for a "Easyport IV" dock station).
"While virtually every Core 2 Duo processor supports the hardware virtualization technology that powers the Windows 7 XP Mode"
That is virtually wrong. In the mobile computing market, most Core2Duo machines that support Intel VT live in the higher end of the price spectrum, such as the P8600. A great many mid-range machines use the T6400,T6500 CPU's, which do not give you VT support.
I tried 2-3 weeks ago when I installed Virtualbox. I couldn't get very far in the BIOS manager, all the good stuff is behind a password. I can't tell if the password is from the factory or my company's IT department.
However, I read on various forums that people had the same issue and were unable to activate via BIOS. I have a Core2Duo T9400 2.5Ghz CPU.
Between virtual technology and Windows 7, it seems to me that a lot of people are going to "need" this soon, so disabling by default (if you have a choice) doesn't seem wise.
The first line of this summary is quite wrong. Intel has LOTS of Core2Duo's that do not support Intel VT. A quick look through their processor matrix will confirm this. Still, it's common practise for laptop manufacturers to disable things like VT on their consumer models. My Toshiba satellite has it disabled (not changeable in BIOS), but the pro version of it (same mainboard and cpu) has the option. I'm sure there is some way to get it working via a hex editor or something, but then we're into voiding warranties (if the bios gets fubared).
Virtual Box will still run without VT, it just won't be optimal. I've got an old Athlon 64 that doesn't support VT or its AMD equivalent, but I can still run a Windows XP Virtual Box instance on it ;)
Lots of cheap Intel processors don't even have Intel VT, while most of the AMD processors in the same price range have it enabled. While I like the fact that some of the new Pentium processors run really cool, I would never consider buying a new processor without virtualization support. Yet most of the current cheap machines (laptops and boxen) that come with Intel use processors without virtualization. Kinda limits your choices. But then again I always liked AMD better.
I've never seen BIOS features password-protected from the factory. I have seen it FREQUENTLY done with corporate laptops (for example, the T42s I have for network testing have WLAN cards in them, but have been disabled in password-protected BIOS sections.)
Until Windows 7, 90%+ of consumers had no reason to use VT extensions, and for those, VT was only a potential security hole. Hence disabling by default made sense until very recently.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Toshiba does this on some of their laptops, too, including mine, as I discovered recently. It's there as a bios option, but no way to change it from "disabled".
I hope Toshiba decides to provide an update to re-enable the VT, but so far they haven't made a statement about it at all, AFAIK.
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
Virtual machines are a security feature. A VM establishes a security barrier around the OS> If you're infected, you just roll back the VM to the last snapshot and you're clean.
Security is like sex, once you're penetrated you're ****ed. Blocking useful security tools because they make it very slightly easier to hide after a successful penetration is asinine. And complaining about the cleanup cost? I normally reformat and reinstall after a virus is detected... and I've had to do that ONCE on any computer I've owned since 1986.
If people took some responsibility for their computers instead of depending on hacks like AV software to detect and clean up after they screw up, there wouldn't BE a virus problem.
As for your last line, "There is no real use of VT anyway since cores are now dual."... I have no idea what you mean by that, so here's a bunny with a pancake on its head.
This is the same crap as cell phone companies disabling features on those phones. You read a great review of a new cell phone (or CPU), only to find out that when you buy it from this manufacturer that it won't do that.
Now as to why Sony will enable it on some laptops, yet not others, truly boggles the mind.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I was recommending Dell lattitudes, IBM thinkpads primarily a few years back.
An executive wanting to be cost conscious because he didn't use any serious programs wanted to get a Sony. Lasted 2 years. Went and got another one and lasted about the same amount of time. Has yet another one, this one is going on 3 years. The remaining users (4) that got the Dells and the IBM's have been chugging along for 5++ years.
As for OS. I have some data mining software that I use and for the last year I have seen people complain over and over again that they are seeing slow performance on Vista. In some cases it is 4x. It's proprietary software and the people who do the programming just aren't that literate on what is going on. But basically it boils down to, they do not understand why their program runs slower in some cases on Vista. So Vista users in this case are screwed, blame it on Vista or the 3rd party vendor.
Maybe sooner or later consumers will realize that they are getting less with the latest computers primarily because the OS and the software on top just runs less efficiently.
And I can't really say that Linux is immune to this.
I recently looked into purchasing some data analysis software and found that it cost $1000 dollars extra to be able to run it in SMP mode.
since many years ago. Their PC lines are the most crippled PC products I have ever seen. They often use some strange/closed hardware that nowhere to find open source driver. And now this. Toshiba is not much better. Lenovo/IBM usually much better than them anyway. I would rather even stay with DELL if I have to.
Perhaps there is already some hypervisor running that we don't know about?
As a Z owner who is planning on upgrading to Windows 7, this pisses me off. That machine was nearly as expensive as my mac... my mac!
It's worth noting that, scarily enough, it *was* still cheaper than my MBP, and the MBP has all sorts of issues running Windows. Sadly, the one ideal computer to run all OS's is actually three and a roll of duct tape.
As the unhappy owner of a sony vaio VGN-FZ240, I was also a victim of sony's stupidity.
Not only I couldn't use the VT extension on my CPU; they also decided not to release hd controller drivers for Windows XP, which made it impossible to install XP instead of Vista.
I contacted their support staff for both issues, and of course, there was no solution from them.
After some yahooing I found how to enable VT:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=189228
If you own a Sony Vaio Z series laptop just follow the instructions in the thread and you will be able to use VT.
I was also able to install XP by creating a custom install CD with the drivers from a similar model.
As was mentioned, Google is your friend. You can find out how to "hack" this to work on a number of laptop forums. Within a week of buying my VAIO AR670 about 18 months ago (also with VT disabled in the BIOS), I found the hex byte signature to look for in a BIOS image file and patched them to enable VT.
Even models that are supposed to support this mode. Why take the chance?
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Here's some more evidence that the "Apple Tax" is just a higher price for quality goods:
http://blog.fosketts.net/2009/08/07/macs-beat-pcs-intel-vt/
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
So I'm actually posting from the Grizza, it's a Sony Vaio 'desk top replacement' PCG-GRZ530. And it's a POS.
Sure, it's from 2004 and sports a 2.4GHz P4 with 512MB (maxed out) RAM. Upgraded HDD to 60GB (3rd drive in system up from 20GB low rpm stock drive). It's worked reliably since Jan/Feb 2003 since I bought it NIB...
#1 CPU overheats. Turns out they had shitty design of cpu/heatsink and it's a common problem for everyone. Solution: Sony says send it in for a fee. Real fix: Blow the dust out every 2 weeks or so.
#2 Hinge breaks out of NO WHERE! Having babied this bad boy for ever it's unacceptable that it breaks. Turns out its bad hinge design. I barely fixed it after having been busted for 2-3 years and it turns out BOTH hinges can't be turned by hand at all. You need some good pliers. Soaked in WD-40 and they still don't turn. The screws that go through the hinge attach to the plastic cover plate! So of course they are busted and should have the cover replaced. Bring in the Ghetto! Tiny nuts and bolts fix that problem, cover just hanging on with retainer clips!
#3 Good luck getting help from sony and or their "authorized" service centers. They all rob for non-service. Look at the complaints people have posted across countless forums. Look up my model and see it for yourself!
#4 "Like no other" is right!!!!!!!!!!!!
So i'm not surprised they are burning more customers. That's why I will NEVER buy as long as I can help it another sony product. Here is my list of experiences (all ending badly):
- walk man
- tv's
- home stereo's
- car stereos
- speakers (these were "ok")
- remote controls (various)
- note book (PC)
- DiscMan
- Home Phone
LoL A lot of this stuff i didn't buy but ended up with. All junk!
The only 2 good things I can say about this note book is that it runs FreeBSD without issues (had to do some work to get screen brightness controls working - reminds me, have to reply to another post on how to get that to work) and the screen has been pretty bitchen. It has a white spot in the top left quarter of screen the size of an pencil eraser.
Oh and while working on the hinges i "broke" the power and memory card reader ribbon cables. So from paying $35 for 1 of them from sony i got both for $18 on ebay (thank god). Then i tried to replace the heat paste on the heat sink only to find out it can't be removed, they must have used that sticky shit on it instead of regular spread wtf?
It's old, heavy and a bitch to use with modern software (windows 7 testing ATM - runs good actually) but i'll replace it only until it won't turn on again (and i can't fix it!).
My abilities are only limited by my imagination
If Sony is disabling features to make their laptops more resiliant against malware attacks, can we expect them to offer support and resolution to malware attacks that occur because of their hardware/BIOS?
I bet not. So why not leave alone that which you are not willing to fully support anyways?
On another note, Intel (amd probably AMD) mess with the VT features, scattering them all over the processor product lines. You need a frakking CPA to work through the permutations and find the processor(s) that have all the features and performance you want or will pay for. !Simple. !Friendly. Evil.
deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
yep - Virtualbox uses QEMU if Vt-x or AMD-V isn't present. I've got a year old Quad-Core 8400 that doesn't support Vt-x because Intel doesn't include it in consumer grade chips (I made sure my laptop had it, though). I think this is going to bite Intel's ass just like the Intel GMA graphics thing did when they used a software timer and Vista Aero required a hardware timer.
Microsoft only? If one wants to run Linux on their Sony PC, there is nothing stopping them. Whether they use VirtualBox or any other VM solution, with or without CPU VM extensions, or install natively. I've been running Ubuntu on my VAIO for 18 months now, and everything is supported, including the special buttons, webcam, etc.
Trying to characterize the modern Sony in any meaningfully consistent way is an exercise in futility. Sony, like any major Japanese company, has always existed in a number of fairly distinct units or "silos," but in their present incarnation, they are spread across such a wide variety of markets that it's almost a coincidence they bear the same brand name.
Sony BMG, obviously, is the most consumer-unfriendly, as well as the least market-savvy. The rootkit debacle of four years ago has stayed with the tech community and poisoned its perception of the entire brand, but it's not really fair to conflate that with anything the VAIO division does -- VAIO is off in its own world from Sony BMG.
VAIO, as evidenced by this story, obviously has its own struggles, as does Sony Computer Entertainment, as does each Sony business unit in its own way. But they do not move as one.
Your mind is clear / The things that you fear / Will fade with how much you / Believe what you hear
Isn't that what their media branch thrives on?
Sounds like the left hand isn't taking to the right hand in their corporate headquarters. ( or the market guys, since its hard to sell designed in defects as features )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Bought one for my wife some years ago. Never again. Full of crapware and misleading Sony hardware specs. It will only boot from a $300 Sony CDROM; well no. The $80 Sony mouse will only work on Sony laptops with WIN98; well no again. I'm tired of all their BS and screwy restrictions. No Sony computers, no Sony TVs, no Sony cameras!
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
I actually spoke with a guy who worked on the Virtual PC team at Microsoft (Windows Virtual PC, an evolution from Virtual PC 2007, is the software that enables Virtual XP Mode). When asked why they required hardware virtualization support in WVPC (VPC2007 uses dynamic recompilation to work around lack of hardware support) he said that back when work on WVPC started (2 years ago) Intel and AMD assured them that within 2 years, all their chips would support hardware virtualization. Thus, MS decided to require hardware support with WVPC, which not only improves performance but substantially decreases code-base complexity and amount of testing required (this is the main reason - doubling the neccessary testing was not a popular choice).
Fast-forward to today, and AMD has essentially kept that promise - even their consumer-grade CPUs support hardware virtualization, and have for years - while Intel has decided that they would rather disable VT on a bunch of their processors just for SKU differentiation (the silicon is actually in place, just intentioanlly disabled). This has caused some substantial ire within MS, apparently. I asked if it would be possible to re-introduce the software work-around from VPC2007, and was told that it could be (and was under consideration) but that if they decided to do so it would probably take at least until Win7 SP1.
There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
It came crippled. Sony sucks.
I had to boot a DOS disk and change a single flag in the address space mapped to flash for BIOS options.
That was easy. It took weeks to find the correct flag however. NEVER buy Sony (though I'm sure most nerds knew this already).
my MBP runs Windows like a dream in Parallels. XP, not Vista.
Ask Me About... The 80's!
There are "fixed" BIOS files for this fixed on the internet or hex editor instructions if you are not so trusting. These fixed the problem for me.
I don't really understand why they would need a full VM for what is, essentially, system call emulation. The XP mode is intended to run legacy userspace software, not to legacy drivers. Why are they not just running the XP dlls in a separate kernel personality? It's not like the NT kernel hasn't had this capability since the first version (when it could run an OS/2 personality, for example, which implemented OS/2 system calls for compatibility with OS/2 software and libraries). Running a full copy of the XP kernel, trapping its hardware accesses, turning these into Win7 system calls, and then running them is not what I would describe as 'reducing code complexity'.
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