TomTom Releases iPhone Navigation App

andylim writes "Today TomTom released its long-awaited iPhone app that allows you to use your iPhone 3G and 3GS as a GPS navigation device. Recombu.com tested it out on video this morning and concluded that it works well but if you receive a call while you're driving then the app does cut out — it will restart once you've finished the conversation. The app costs £60 for the UK & Ireland version, £80 for western Europe, £45 for Australia and £60 for the US and Canada."

Comments

Prices

[Yvan256]

The app costs £60 for the UK & Ireland version, £80 for western Europe, £45 for Australia and £60 for the US and Canada.

Why are all the prices in British Pounds? Did they just annex all those countries overnight or is the author of the article a lazy bastard?

And why does Slashdot suck so much with unicode? I copy/pasted that line from above yet the pound sign shows up with an extra character before it.

Re:Prices

[Brandee07]

The app isn't available in the US yet, for whatever reason. While you could go and run the exchange rate to get the price in USD, it's likely that they'll set a different price point for US customers. I'm gonna guess $100.

The timing on this is just lovely- I just picked up the Navigon turn-by-turn app yesterday for $70, since I got tired of waiting for TomTom. I haven't even had a chance to use it yet.

Re:Prices

[Yvan256]

If the app isn't available in the USA store then where does the price converted to pound comes from?

Re:Prices

[Anonymous Coward]

If the app isn't available in the USA store then where does the price converted to pound comes from?

Umm... perhaps the price is in Pounds which will be converted to US dollars once it is available there?

Re:Prices

[Brandee07]

It's up on the US app store now:

US & Can $99.99
Western Europe $139.33
Australia $79.99
New Zealand $94.99

Re:Prices

[Anonymous Coward]

If the app isn't available in the USA store then where does the price converted to pound comes from?

England. Duh.

Re:Prices

[chrisbtoo]

Why are all the prices in British Pounds? Did they just annex all those countries overnight or is the author of the article a lazy bastard?

The prices are in British Pounds, because the linked article is on a UK website. The author of the article is someone who is reporting the news to people in his country of origin. Congratulations on discovering that there's an entire world outside your country's borders!

Re:Prices

[SargentDU]

Not only that, it gives a common currency to compare. If one was Dollars, one in Franks, one in Euros and one in Pounds, you would have been no better off, in fact, it would have useless information.

Re:Prices

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

No, it wouldn't. It would be much better to include the local figures. Apple typically doesn't just set its prices according to exchange rates, it sets them what it thinks would be best from a marketing and business perspective. With it being in the non local currencies we as readers are left pondering if that's what the price would be in pounds after a conversion from the actual price they will charge in local currencies, if they will take that figure and convert it to local currencies, or if that's the numeric value of the price with the wrong symbol attached. The correct thing to do is to provide both figures to allow both an easy comparison, while also an understanding into the actual price.

Re:Prices

[Yvan256]

Indeed, one example being that 99.99 U.S. dollars = 110.97891 Canadian dollars.

Re:Prices

[Lars T.]

Congratulations on discovering that there's an entire world outside your country's borders!

And now there even is an app to show him how to get there!

Re:Prices

[Lars T.]

Apple typically doesn't just set its prices according to exchange rates, it sets them what it thinks would be best from a marketing and business perspective.

Good thing that this is a third party app, then. I guess TomTom would never set the price from a marketing and business perspective.

Re:Prices

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

Good point, it s tom tom not apple setting the pricing. I was aware of that, but I didn't make it clear enough in the post.

Re:Prices

[nerdacus]

As of now, 1:52PM PST, it is not available for sale in the US iTunes store.

Re:Prices

[Brandee07]

It's showing up on the app store on my phone right now. Make sure you're searching for "tomtom" as "tom tom" returns no results.

Re:Prices

[node 3]

Good point, it s tom tom not apple setting the pricing. I was aware of that, but I didn't make it clear enough in the post.

Yeah, if by "didn't make it clear enough" you mean "didn't mention it at all". The only proper noun you used at all in your post was "Apple".

I'm sure you knew that Tom Tom set the price, not Apple (although I'm not convinced you were consciously thinking that when you wrote your post), but either way, your "my bad" was very Bushian, where you say something that sounds like you're saying you messed up, but is really saying you didn't mess up at all, except perhaps in overestimating the intelligence of the reader ("I *thought* you knew what I was saying, but I guess I wasn't clear enough...").

Re:Prices

[node 3]

Congratulations on discovering that there's an entire world outside your country's borders!

And now there even is an app to show him how to get there!

'Turn. right.'
'Drive. three thousand. six hundred and. twenty-eight. miles.'
'Turn. left.'

Re:Prices

[Sparr0]

I had a conversation with a friend from Germany recently about the America-centric thinking of us Americans. She has been to dozens of countries, many by hitchhiking/backpacking across Europe. I had to stress the point that from where I am sitting, I can travel a thousand miles in any direction on land and still be in the same country. The impact that has on... cosmopolitanness is significant, compared to her being able to visit three countries *ON FOOT* in the same week.

Re:Prices

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

Ok. How about " I suck". Is that strong enough? I usually don't consider slashdot postings to be the equivalent of grand jury testimony so I don't always run my postings by a series of editors, lawyers, and grand inquisitors. THere may be a mispelling or two. I may miss a company refrence, and put in one that doesn't apply, because it make sense to me. I don't always consider my audience. I routinely fail to quote my sources. I have been know to forget things, or remeber things that never happened. All in all, I would make a bad president of a taco stand, much less a country. Should I kill myself now, or do I have to apply for a permit for that?

Re:Prices

[node 3]

I really don't care that you made a mistake. It's just your owning up to it that I was commenting on. Your defensiveness is not making it any better. First it was the reader's fault for not catching your subtlety, now it's my fault for being overly critical and demanding you post to slashdot as though it were a PhD thesis.

You never had to respond to the first person who pointed out that Apple didn't set the prices, but if you're going to, don't blame the poster if his point is valid.

The specific thing that struck me was when you said you weren't clear enough, about something you didn't include even a sliver of indication of. No big deal, you don't (necessarily) suck, you don't have to kill yourself.

Owning up to a mistake without the defensiveness, on the other hand, would be nice, but not required.

But whatever you do, don't blame me (or your other readers), your post wasn't our fault.

Re:Prices

[Beardo the Bearded]

If only there was some kind of map program that was portable and allowed you to look at the places you were and where you could go.

I think there'd be a market for that.

Re:Prices

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

I don't think you understand that I'm not blaming anyone but myself. I am explaining that I write posts for myself. I *don't* think about what other people might think of the posts as I write them. My " not being clear" should translate to " Not thinking of anyone else but myself", rather than " Its your fault". Its not defensiveness, but an admission of selfishness. My posts are often written in my own internal language. Its not anyone's fault they don't understand.

You assumed that I was blaming others and treating it as if I was trying to duck responsibility for being unclear. My previous response was trying to ( in a humorous over the top way which you obviously didn't get because it was written in my own internal language) say that I wasn't trying to duck blame in a bushian manor. You obviously don't speak Bill. I hope this is closer to the language you humans know as "english".

Re:Prices

[node 3]

Whenever someone says something like, "I'm wrong", or "you're right, I messed up", or whatever, every extra thing you add translates to, "but I'm not really wrong".

I believe you're being honest, but even here, you aren't saying, "you're right, I said Apple, shoulda said Tom Tom" or whatever, you're saying, "you're right, I'm selfish and write for myself", which is not the accusation.

I realize your defenses are up, and the next step often goes, "ok, I was wrong. Satisfied?" and it's that "satisfied?" at the end that ruins it, like it's still my fault your post was wrong and I shouldn't be making a fuss about it.

But we don't have to play this dance out forever. I'll be fine if you never apologize (you don't even need to) without qualifying it somehow. All I'm saying is that if you are going to apologize (or cop to a mistake or whatever), don't qualify it. It just makes things worse.

And I wouldn't have even said anything in the first place except that your original qualification was rather... ambitious :D

Re:Prices

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

I understand everything you are saying. But, you don't speak meta Billish. I was trying to explain it to you, because its more interesting than the art of apologizing. I don't know why I try sometimes.

Re:Prices

[bobdown2001]

Hmmm as a TomTom owner I can't help but feel a little ripped off. The price of the iPhone app including maps is considerably less than the cost of upgrading to the newest maps on the TomTom itself.

Re:Prices

[nerdacus]

Yeah, I figured this out on my own just now, but thanks for the info. That's pretty weak. (But so am I for not figuring it out.)

Re:Prices

[Meski]

I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition.

Re:Prices

[Tybalt_Capulet]

I'm assuming that most people who read this live in one of those countries or unions, so unless you wanted to google exchange rate and then figure out an estimate, it would be easier for people interested in buying it. Who cares if it costs more one place or another? That sucks for you, but there's nothing you can do about it.

That would mean the only currency listed that would be useless is Franks.

Franks don't exist anymore.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro

I know that Wikipedia isn't a trustworthy source, but...

Re:Prices

[mikiN]

Franks don't exist anymore.

Aren't you forgetting Switzerland?

The current exchange rates for Swiss Franks are here.

Re:Prices

[mikiN]

There are many places in Europe where you can pass through three countries in less than an hour..!

Re:Prices

[MikeBabcock]

Have you looked at the price of maps recently? They've dropped substantially since TomTom bought Navteq. I just paid less than $50 for a year's worth of map updates from TomTom for my 630 for all of North America (any and all map updates they release for 12 months).

Re:Prices

[Berzelius]

TomTom bought Tele Atlas. It's Nokia that bought Navteq.

Re:Prices

[MikeBabcock]

Right sorry, but same outcome :-)

Re:Prices

[Tybalt_Capulet]

Actually yes, I did forget about Switzerland.

Re:Prices

[bobdown2001]

It looks like the price has dropped, but maps for Australia are still $99.95 AUD which equals around $82 USD at the moment.

But the price of new maps is still so high that you might as well buy a new GPS with all the latest features, or go for the iPhone option.

New phone - apps transfer?

[realsilly]

So here is the question I have for many of you who own iphones and such. If you pay for an app and your phone dies, or something, will that app be transferred to a replacement phone or do you need to re-purchase the app for the new phone?

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

So here is the question I have for many of you who own iphones and such. If you pay for an app and your phone dies, or something, will that app be transferred to a replacement phone or do you need to re-purchase the app for the new phone?

The truth is, I don't know. But I can tell you this: I have an iPod Touch and an iPhone. I've purchased apps on the iPhone and have been able to use them on the iPod Touch, too. It would appear as though that it's all about the iTunes account you use on the device.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[Anonymous Coward]

The apps you buy are tied to your account, not the iPhone/iPod Touch.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[Anubis IV]

Kinda neither. All you need to do is connect the iPhone to your computer and then choose to Restore from Backup, I believe, to get the new iPhone up and running exactly as your old one was. Even if that doesn't work though, apps are associated with your Apple ID, not your phone, so you can freely download them as often as you want and put them on any iPhone that syncs with your computer.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[horatio]

I've had to get my iPhone replaced twice. Neither time did I have any issues transferring my purchased items. The store (Apple or AT&T) will not transfer any settings, contacts, music, apps etc for you. However, iTunes (OS X, I assume Windows version will behave the same) recognizes this is a phone it hasn't seen and asks you if you want to restore this new phone from the last backup.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you purchased it, you can download it again. I've deleted apps off the phone and downloaded them again without payment.. seems like your purchases are tied and recorded to your account somehow. It even prompts you with a message saying that you already purchased this app.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it transfers. The easiest thing to do is to just plug the new phone into your computer, and select restore phone when it prompts you in itunes. If you don't want to completely restore your replacement phone, you can set it up as a new phone, and then just selectively sync up that application manually. You can also just re-download the app for free (in itunes, or the app store on the phone).

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[AnotherShep]

Yeah, it just shows up on the new phone. All you need to do is sync it to the computer with the apps on it.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[BorgDrone]

Yes.

Purchases are not linked to the device but to your iTunes account.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[larry bagina]

ad hoc distribution (which does NOT involve the appt store and are generally for testing) are based on the device id.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[SydShamino]

Yes. Which means that if you and your wife both have iPhones and share an iTunes account, you should both have the app for the price of one.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[alen]

you can download any app you bought for free on the same account as many times as you want. all the apps are downloaded as .ipa files into your profile in windows and you can even easily back them up yourself so you don't have to download them again.

i have 2 iphones. one for myself and one for my wife. i just put the ipa file on her computer, add to itunes library and next time it syncs she gets the app

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[dintech]

There are even cheaper solutions involving jailbreaking and appulous...

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[$RANDOMLUSER]

This being /. perhaps the units of currency should be quatloos or bars of gold-pressed latinum.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[xaxa]

Because the article used pounds (it was submitted at 10:59 UK time, when the USA is sleeping).

Anyway, don't most people know the very approximate value of $, € and £ in their own currency? They're the three most-traded currencies worldwide. xe.com if you don't, and they don't change enough for it to matter when reading a news story.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[Anonymous Coward]

This being /. perhaps the units of currency should be quatloos or bars of gold-pressed latinum.

Or Alterian dollars

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[Pieroxy]

Cheaper, but illegal.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[BitZtream]

Having just replaced an iPhone that went swimming myself, I was pleasently surprised to know that if you let the MobileMe service run your life it will also restore the most important parts of your phone. To my pleasent surprise, as I was walking out of the apple store in a mall, entered my mobileme info and before I exited the mall my contacts and cals were all back, mail accounts configured and ready to sync.

Didn't have any of my apps, music or media, but the important stuff was already to go.

At that point, you won't get the option to restore from backup however, which means you have to jump through hoops if you had apps with important data to restore. iTunes still seems to be the best way to restore a phone.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[AndrewNeo]

Yes. I got my iPod Touch replaced from Apple. I took the replacement home, synced it with iTunes, and back were all my applications, even the paid ones.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[BitZtream]

Apps are purchased once per itunes account. On the phone on on your PC you can redownload them again as needed.

I regularly delete/redownload apps as well as reimage my phone as I use it for development/testing.

The only real problem is that I have yet to be able to find a list of all the apps I've bought, so I'm sure that I've deleted some apps that I don't remember wasting money on and will probably never see them again even though I own them.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[DragonWriter]

So here is the question I have for many of you who own iphones and such. If you pay for an app and your phone dies, or something, will that app be transferred to a replacement phone or do you need to re-purchase the app for the new phone?

Usually, apps are tied to your iTunes account and can be used on any iPhone linked to that iTunes account (so not only can you transfer them to a new phone, you can use them on more than one phone simultaneously.)

I recall seeing a notice somewhere in the user agreements, disclaimers, etc., attached to the App Store that there are apps that allow only a single download to a phone per purchase, but I've never actually encountered one.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[horatio]

At that point, you won't get the option to restore from backup however, which means you have to jump through hoops if you had apps with important data to restore. iTunes still seems to be the best way to restore a phone.

hmm, I've been pondering a mobileme subscription. what kind of hoops do you mean? do you just not get prompted to restore from backup after manually re-entering your mobileme account info on a "blank" phone? seems like you could force a restore from backup in iTunes regardless of what mobileme did, no?

There are some apps that (not sure why or what the difference is) will not restore their application data from a backup. It might be that the app wasn't written in a way to take advantage of the backup/restore process.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[CatOne]

All the applications are synched with iTunes on your machine, and can be synched to any iPhone that is "bound" to that version of iTunes. You could buy the app and sync it to 15 iPhones, if you used 15 iPhones.

Note you can't sync it to someone else's iPhone -- that is, one that by default syncs to another library.

So no risk here if your personal iPhone dies.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[cayenne8]

"Anyway, don't most people know the very approximate value of $, and £ in their own currency? They're the three most-traded currencies worldwide. xe.com [xe.com] if you don't, and they don't change enough for it to matter when reading a news story."

I would say (at least in the US) the answer is no.

Perhaps since Europe is all stacked together for the most part, you are used to seeing many different currencies, but, in the US, you rarely seen anything other than US money, and rarely ever deal with anything other than US money. I used to see the odd Canadian dime on occasion, but, I hardly see those anymore. Thanks for clearing up what that symbol was...I wasn't sure if it was a pound or a franc symbol.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[AnAdventurer]

I have gone though 3 iPhones even in OtterBoxes (yeah I am hard on gear) and have not had to replace an app, they just load onto the new phone when I sync it up. It's a really painless process.

Both videos are about 2 minutes each and together you'll get the idea. What's in my bag How I use it. iPhone is top pocket in second video.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[Anonymous Coward]

I prefer ISK, and you can take that to mean the Icelandic Krona if you want...

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[mwvdlee]

Or you could use jailbreak, appulous, a stolen iPhone and rob an old lady; that way you'd make a profit even!

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[thanasakis]

Yes, not only apps but even firmware upgrades (I have two iPods). You only pay once. It is also possible to ask apple support to let you download your purchased songs again in case you lose them.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[AliasMarlowe]

Thanks for clearing up what that symbol was...I wasn't sure if it was a pound or a franc symbol.

£ can denote the Lebanese Lire or the Syrian Lire.
$ can denote the Nicaraguan Cordoba or the Tongan Pa'anga.
I can't casually convert between these currencies.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[dotgain]

All you need to do is connect the iPhone to your computer and then choose to Restore from Backup, I believe, to get the new iPhone up and running exactly as your old one was

Just did this yesterday, and it kinda works like that. All the Apps were in alphabetical order afterwards, rather than the order I arranged them, which is a bit of a hassle if you run your iPod Touch / iPhone FULL of Apps.

Why did I erase my iPod? Trying to fix the iPhone OS 3.0 Wi-Fi Bug, that rumour has it fried the wireless chipsets of thousands of devices of course.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[rgviza]

There are even cheaper solutions involving jailbreaking and Cydia that are actually legal (xGPS).

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[node 3]

it was submitted at 10:59 UK time, when the USA is sleeping

The USA never sleeps. Not with Putin constantly peeking over at Alaska and illegals coming from the south trying to pick our lettuce and clean rich people's houses. That's why we're so tired all the time, and easily exhausted by trying to keep track of £ and € and such.

Heck, most of us can't even keep pounds and ounces straight, and those things hardly ever change.

Shh! Quiet! I think I just heard someone trying to help sick people. I gotta grab my gun...

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[Sparr0]

What if you don't use iTunes?

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[7Prime]

Yes, it will. I can speak from personal experience. My iPhone 3G died a few weeks ago, I purchased a new 3Gs and when I sync'ed it with my computer, everything popped back in... right down to the home screen layout, my email account settings, everything. So the answer to your question is an absolute and unequivicable "yes".

On top of that, your iTMS account stores all information about everything you've purchased. When you purchase anything on iTMS, be it a song, an app, or whatever, you effectively own the license to download that file as many times as you need. If you delete an app off your phone, and then decided to redownload it, the download is free.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[mgblst]

You don't need to repurchase the app. All apps are stored in itunes, and Apple knows that you have already bought an app.

Re:New phone - apps transfer?

[mikiN]

w.h.o.w.

This must be one of the biggest dupe-fests of answers to a single question in the history of Slashdot.
If my eyes were ears they'd still be ringing from the echoes...

GPS Kills!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not so sure that bringing GPS to the masses is such a good idea...

"11-Year-Old Boy Dies After Mom Says GPS Left Them Stranded in Death Valley"
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,538323,00.html

What's the point?

[Blakey Rat]

This differs from the built-in Google Maps... how?

There's no pitch here, just a claim that it adds a feature iPhones already had!

Re:What's the point?

[hansamurai]

I'm assuming the TomTom says the directions out loud? Maybe Google Maps does that too but I don't own an iPhone or iTouch so I wouldn't know.

Re:What's the point?

[grub]

This differs from the built-in Google Maps... how?

Google Maps is free so it just can't be as good as TomTom's pricey AppStore app!

.

Re:What's the point?

[Anubis IV]

Voice navigation is not in Google Maps. Also, I think many (but perhaps not most) would argue that it has better algorithms for determining the route to take. It also doesn't rely on having an Internet connection, since you're downloading the entire map with TomTom, so it would work even out in the boonies.

Re:What's the point?

[CrankyFool]

The GPS component of Google Maps suffers pretty drastically compared to ye olde average GPS device:

1. No voice navigation;

2. No "OK, you're coming up on the turn, take the NEXT right turn";

3. No "Oops, you've missed it, OK, the next street is a one-way street, so go two blocks .. " (i.e. automatic route re-calculation);

4. No ability to specify preferences such as "I want to take that bridge, not this one" (maps.google.com lets you rejigger your route quite nicely, but not the app on the iPhone);

5. Doesn't help you at all if you need to control your iPod component right now (so the app isn't in the foreground);

Re:What's the point?

[Enuratique]

Voice navigation is not in Google Maps. Also, I think many (but perhaps not most) would argue that it has better algorithms for determining the route to take. It also doesn't rely on having an Internet connection, since you're downloading the entire map with TomTom, so it would work even out in the boonies.

Yes, all of this. Also, apparently the GPS chip inside the iPhone isn't "good enough" to do turn-by-turn navigation, so the cradle that TomTom sells has a chip inside it that is better suited. Now, this might be a big fat lie, since the app will work without the cradle albeit not as well if the marketing literature is to be believed.

Re:What's the point?

[ajdowntown]

Now you can have a robotic voice yell at you when you missed your turn! Like a nagging wife with you all the time in your car! Worth the money right there!

Re:What's the point?

[aardwolf64]

1.) No turn-by-turn
2.) No voice routing
3.) Most important - No offline storage of maps.

If you dare go somewhere without cellphone service, you'll quickly find that the streets disappear in Google Maps... That's because it loads the map as needed over your cellphone data connection.

Re:What's the point?

[Brandee07]

The built-in Google Maps does automatically display the next direction when you reach a turn, it does not reroute when you go off course, and it does not do anything aloud- everything is displayed in small text.

I have been using the Google Maps in the iPhone for about a year, and it is definitely useful, but it's not a TomTom equivalent. It requires a navigator to be used effectively. Someone other than the driver needs to press the next button and read the directions aloud- otherwise it's like trying to text while driving.

Re:What's the point?

[ninkendo84]

Basically, the simple answer is that in the Google Maps app, you have to tell the app when you've reached a turn. It doesn't detect it. (So you have to hit "Next" a bunch of times through your route) The TomTom app will detect when you're close to a turn, tell you (out loud, even) and advance to the next step in the route.

I think the turn-by-turn technology (basically the ability to detect when you've completed a turn) is patented, so the Google Maps app does all it's really allowed to do without infringing patents (hence the need for you to tell it when you've completed a turn.) This also would explain why no turn-by-turn apps are allowed in the app store.

Re:What's the point?

[f1vlad]

Probably this one with [attempted] more usability than built-in one. The problem with either is that it's aGPS and accuracy is still making these not as usable as conventional GPS navs.

Re:What's the point?

[Algan]

- Turn by turn directions with voice guidance
- Built in maps, so you don't need data coverage to use it
- Automatic rerouting in case of wrong turns

Still too expensive, considering that a standalone unit can be bought for less than $100 with car kit included

Re:What's the point?

[PhilHibbs]

Hopefully it has TomTom's maps built in and doesn't download all the map info on demand over the data connection - I didn't use my iPhone in France for navigation except in emergencies as the roaming data charges are pretty steep. Probably less than £80 though...

Re:What's the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

Texting while driving is dangerous
Dangerous, treacherous, perilous.
People who were text messaging
Were 20 times more likely to have an accident
Than those who were talking on phones instead of typing.

People on the road can turn an LOL
into a great big OMG.

Re:What's the point?

[Sl4shd0t0rg]

If you own a Jeep Wrangler like me, not having to hide your GPS unit or worse carry the head unit with you is worth the money in my opinion.

Re:What's the point?

[patch0]

I'm assuming the tom tom app downloads the maps and stores them locally on the iphone. Issues with the googlemap app that comes as standard are that it needs an internet connection to display the map so sometimes if you're in an area of patchy 3G signal you get a blank grid instead of a map. Otherwise it would be pretty pointless buying this in my opinion.

Re:What's the point?

[pen]

The Maps application on the iPhone is very underwhelming. The Google Maps application I tried on a Nokia E71 and Blackberry Pearl were not very feature-rich to begin with, but the iPhone blows them both away with its featurelessness. I don't think it will be hard to improve on at all.

Re:What's the point?

[Anubis IV]

There are other turn-by-turn apps in the AppStore. The reasons you don't see many of them are 1) the licensing terms say you can't use Google's maps so you have to provide your own, and 2) the A-GPS used by the iPhone 3G and 3GS is subpar to true GPS, making turn-by-turn very difficult to do well.

Re:What's the point?

[tlhIngan]

Yes, all of this. Also, apparently the GPS chip inside the iPhone isn't "good enough" to do turn-by-turn navigation, so the cradle that TomTom sells has a chip inside it that is better suited. Now, this might be a big fat lie, since the app will work without the cradle albeit not as well if the marketing literature is to be believed.

Given there are many more navigation apps in the App Store (MobileNavigator for one), I think the GPS chip in the iPhone is "good enough". It uses aGPS to get fast time to first fix (seconds, since the almanac can be transferred via AGPS faster than downloading it from the satellites).

No, the reason for the enhanced GPS cradle is twofold - firstly, the iPhone doesn't have advanced GPS features like WAAS support, and most importantly, you don't need an iPhone. The latter is important - for TomTom's app can work on the iPod Touch which lacks GPS. So now, if you don't have an iPhone (for whatever reason - hate AT&T, what have you), you can use your Touch in your car. Plus, the iPhone's speaker isn't that loud, so a nice loud speaker for directions, and if it supports voice command, the Touch needs a microphone.

TomTom's niche will be the millions of iPod Touches that were formerly cut out.

Re:What's the point?

[kcfoxie]

Turn by turn directions. Google maps does not do this. By turn by turn, I mean, the device in real time shows your moving location and propts you audibly and visually that your turn is ahead. It also does route recalculation if you miss a turn, you must re-plot your route manually with Google. This is inherently superior to Google Maps in terms of every day use to get to a destination.

Re:What's the point?

[Daas]

As a Canadian going in the US in the next few weeks, the idea of using my cellphone (For voice or data) scares the crap out of me. I wouldn't mind using a GPS app like this one while having the phone in airplane mode.

99$ is still pretty expensive.

Re:What's the point?

[trevmar]

I use mGmaps in my Blackberry. Unlike Google Maps, you can download the maps in advance and work in an offline (airplane) mode. A world map at decent resolution takes about 6 gigs of SD card space. But this will just make sure you know where you are - I use TomTom to get me where I want to go. Two different tasks :)
 

Re:What's the point?

[thanasakis]

Can't you just click on the button twice while you are viewing google maps? I know it works on the iPod, but I dunno if it's the same on the iphone.

Re:What's the point?

[mkramer]

The A-GPS used by the 2G is subpar to true GPS.

The 3G and 3GS HAVE true GPS that maybe be operated standalone or assisted. Its accuracy is equal to most any other handheld GPS unit, and the assisted portion allows faster time-to-fix than standard products.

Which the 3G is missing that makes turn-by-turn difficult is a compass. Most turn-by-turn devices have a digital compass, which allows detecting that you've completed a turn an instaneous result. Without a compass, one has to depend on consecutive positioning calculations to detect that you are indeed moving in a different direction now (accumulating enough readings in the new direction to rule out precision error).

The 3GS DOES have the digital compass.

However, even in the 2G and 3G, one could use the accelerometer to confirm a turn. It requires using more than just CoreLocation in the apple SDK, but it's entirely doable and just as reliable an indicator as a digital compass.

I don't know if TomTom uses this approach in non-3GS devices or not, though. Some other apps do.

Re:What's the point?

[garbletext]

Thanks for your useful input. I'm glad that, knowing nothing about the question asked, you decided to answer anyway.

This app behaves much more like a standalone GPS device that you can mount on your dashboard; it has preloaded maps, 3d perspective, voice prompts, offline use, etc.

I've been using garmin's GMobileXT on my S60 phone for a while, which is pretty much an exact port of a low-end Garmin device, except it has data access and can use AGPS for faster locks. It's kind of nice for trips but 99% of the time I just need a quick answer, and the google maps application is more than acceptable (plus, it's been getting better and better lately: now it's got street view, latitude, layers, transit directions -- it already owns offline apps in all respects except voice prompts and the fact that you have to constantly press zero to recenter on your location.)

Re:What's the point?

[Anubis IV]

Hmm...I was working off of Wikipedia's iPhone article when I made that comment, and it makes no mention of true GPS, but I did some Googling and it turns out Wikipedia is ill-informed. Even so, I know that in practice I see my location jump around quite a bit sometimes before settling on the correct spot on the map, but the point about the compass is spot-on. I completely forgot about that, and it really is a must-have for good turn-by-turn, otherwise you have to rely strictly on location, which won't be as useful.

Re:What's the point?

[garbletext]

oh, that and it works with the ipod touch if you buy the kit.

Re:What's the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've messed with geo data stuff once and found Google Maps to be highly inaccurate. I've tried one location with several GPS devices. All gave me the same coordinates. I translated them to openstreetmap and it fitted perfectly. I entered them in Google (no calculation needed) and the pointer was set one block away from the real address. Was 2 years ago though maybe it improved.

Re:What's the point?

[AllynM]

XGPS is completely free (if you are willing to jailbreak) and covers most of the points above. There is a PC-side utility that lets you pull down Google map areas at a specified zoom level and send the created database directly to your iPhone. This has allowed me comfortable use of GPS features on my T-Mobile connected iPhone (without a data plan). The only internet connectivity needed is for route calculation / recalculation, but that too is partly negated by the fact that you can pre-query a route and save it in an offline list. I just calculate my routes before I leave my wifi zone. To break it down for those unaware:
1. XGPS has voice nav. It's cheesy, but it's there.
2. XGPS gives you the heads up turn warnings, along with a distance to next turn counter on-screen.
3. XGPS will recaclculate routes on the fly as you miss turns, but this requires internet connectivity.
4. TOMTOM wins that one - only one destination per route. You would have to make multiple routes.
5. Many (if not most) people using their iPhone in a car have it connected through an iPod-aware head unit or an adapter with iPod controls, so song changes and such take place in the background anyway.

With that sort of competition out there, no semi-technical iPhone user is going to blow $99 on an app. Think about it - you can get *an iPhone* for that now. Even being a happy XGPS user, I have been waiting for TOMTOM to come out and was considering getting a copy myself, but $99? That's just crazy talk. It's just software. Drop it to $20 and they'd have my business (and likely the business of many others). At $99 it becomes a bragging rights app, and those who truly want bragging rights already have that with XGPS. Even the clunky standard Google-driven app on the iPhone is 'good enough' to avoid blowing $99 on something that mostly "duplicates functionality" already present.

Re:What's the point?

[duncanatlk]

It duplicates an iPhone feature! How did it get through the approval process?

Re:What's the point?

[nsayer]

The A-GPS used by the 2G is subpar to true GPS.

That's because the 2G doesn't have GPS at all. Location services on the 2G are limited to cell tower and WiFi triangulation.

The 3G and 3GS both have A-GPS. Whether that counts as "true" or not is up to you. But if you attempt to get a fix in an area without cell service, I believe it won't work because the A in A-GPS stands for "assisted" - that is, the phone has to get a rough location, get the current time and download the almanac from the cell towers, THEN it can find the satellites.

Re:What's the point?

[TTrep]

I'm doing some work with TomTom - the two biggest differences are the voice-guided directions, and that Google Maps and similar solutions don't have the maps stored on the iPhone.

Re:What's the point?

[nsayer]

the point about the compass is spot-on. I completely forgot about that, and it really is a must-have for good turn-by-turn, otherwise you have to rely strictly on location, which won't be as useful.

I know of no standalone GPS unit that has a compass. It's not necessary at all for turn-by-turn navigation. When you're moving, the GPS knows exactly which way you're moving and simply assumes the direction of travel is also the direction the front of the car is pointing. When you're not moving, it assumes you are pointing the same direction you were when you were last moving.

Moreover, I have a 3GS, and the compass is fairly inaccurate when you're inside a big metal box like a car, train or bus. I find it's accurate to +/- 45 degrees or so. That's perhaps good enough to know which direction on the street you're facing, but I'm not sure it's good enough for the much-touted "augmented reality camera view overlay" stuff people are talking about.

Re:What's the point?

[cayenne8]

"As a Canadian going in the US in the next few weeks, the idea of using my cellphone (For voice or data) scares the crap out of me."

Why?

Re:What's the point?

[mkramer]

The GPS receiver in both the 3G and 3GS does indeed work stand-alone. The assist servers merely provide faster time-to-fix by providing the data you mention.

Without a cell connection, both models will still eventually locate a satellite and obtain the almanac like any normal GPS device.

Re:What's the point?

[dotgain]

As someone whose had a TomTom GPS before, I'll stick with Google Maps and finding / memorising my own directions, thankyouverymuch. Those guys have got a pretty funny idea of "fastest route", IMO.

Re:What's the point?

[Anonymous Coward]

These are all things that Google could add with relatively little effort, certainly not enough for the charge to go from 0 to 60. Any GOOD reasons?

Oh I thought of a reason. 60 is the amount they thought they could do to get the most money before someone else offers it for much cheaper or 0.

Re:What's the point?

[rgviza]

With google maps you need to take your eyes off the road while driving to get your next turn. Tom Tom and xGPS read you the directions aloud, so you don't need to become a hazard for other drivers, you know, like an automotive GPS is supposed to.

Using google maps while driving (at least without a capable co-pilot) is roughly as dangerous as texting while driving IMHO.

Re:What's the point?

[rgviza]

>but $99? That's just crazy talk.
For sure lol.

I saw the price and just downloaded redsn0w LOL.
xGPS it is! It took all of 15 minutes to get redsn0w, xGPS, OpenSSH running. Now I can also ssh into my phone, which is oddly satisfying in and of itself.

Re:What's the point?

[AnotherShep]

Actually, $99 sounds pretty good for a GPS like that, and I'm thinking of picking it up. My phone is pretty much like my toaster. I don't care how it works and don't want to put any effort into improving it.

Re:What's the point?

[Daas]

Calls in the US : 1$/min
Calls to Canada : 2$/min
Data : 10 cents per kB


This is why.

Re:What's the point?

[Brandee07]

http://www.pocketgpsworld.com/iphone-navigation-app-comparison-xr5133.php

A comparison of all the mapping software on the iphone, including TomTom and GoogleMaps.

Re:What's the point?

[bobcat7677]

Yes, you can buy a standalone tom tom gps navigator that has a bigger screen and better GPS reception for $100. Why would anyone want to pay the same price for just the software to power hardware they already own? Especially when the Sygic Mobile Maps US app is available with all the same features for $39.99. Still more then I am willing to pay, but within reason at least! Whoever the greedy bastard was at Tom Tom that decided $99 was as worthy price should be fired for betraying the company.

Re:What's the point?

[mdwh2]

Note that downloading the entire map on your phone is old news, I've seen people doing that with mapping software on their phones years ago. Of course since it wasn't on the Iphone, it won't have been advertised on Slashdot.

Re:What's the point?

[mikiN]

Ok, I'll stick with the first point, the rest Google could do if they could do the first, and the first probably makes up at least 80% of the final cost.

Put bluntly, Google cannot provide real-time, turn-by-turn navigation because Google has no licenses from the map providers for providing that kind of service. Period. If Google had to buy those licenses, they would need to negotiate them with all the data providers in turn, and would certainly need to pass the cost on to users.

Source

Re:What's the point?

[mikiN]

Oh yes, and developers are prohibited from implementing real-time navigation using Google Maps data or APIs for the same reasons.
That's why you now have AndNav2 and Nav4All on Android phones (AndNav2 uses OpenStreetMap data, Nav4All uses its own data source and will soon start charging for its services). There used to be real-time navigation APIs in the Android SDK, but they were ripped from the current release.

Will there be an adroid version?

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

I am not going to get vendor locked in to iPhone. Will there be a Android version available from Tom Tom or one of its competitors?

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[Anubis IV]

Apple is selling unlocked iPhones in the US these days, you know, and they've been doing it in Europe for far longer now.

Anyway, TomTom hasn't announced anything for Android, to my knowledge.

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[Voyager529]

Apple is selling unlocked iPhones in the US these days

[citation needed]

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[alen]

they offer a blackberry version as well as Garmin. for Android they are probably waiting for the user base to grow. and it depends on the phone. The iphone app clocks in at a whopping 1.2GB. you get all the maps locally to your phone. every iphone ever made has that much storage.

for every other device they have to figure out how many phones meet the requirements or what kind of workarounds they have to code to have it run on as many devices as possible. For the iphone it's a lot easier since every generation of iphone is the same except for the storage.

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Rumours are that there is going to be an Android Tom Tom, but CoPilot has already released voice navigation for Android

http://www.alk.eu.com/copilot/android/

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[Anubis IV]

Nah, it needs to be struck. I could've sworn I had heard it a few days back, but a quick Google after your comment reveals that regardless of what I heard, I appear to be very incorrect.

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[webreaper]

Rumour has it there might be, but in the meantime you can get CoPilot for Android (and iPhone) for about half the price of TomTom.

http://www.alk.eu.com/copilot/android

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[sadler121]

Even if this was true, at&t and tmobile use different frequencies for UMTS in the US. You'll be able to do Edge on TMobile, but NOT 3G.

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[EvilNTUser]

You can get Nokia/Ovi Maps navigation as a monthly or yearly subscription service. You won't be locked in unless you switch phones more than once a month :)

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[larry bagina]

They briefly sold unlocked phones to clear out inventory prior to the 3GS model.

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[Mean Variance]

Here ya go

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[Pieroxy]

I don't know about the US, but in France and I suppose all over europe, they sell unlocked iphone since day 1. Mind you, a 32GB 3GS will cost 1200Euros, but they sell it!

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[BitZtream]

What a retarded statement.

You'd rather be OS locked onto Android? Thats fine, but stop acting like its somehow drastically different using Android, you're still locked into an OS that is used on fewer models of phones than the iPhone OS.

Do you enjoy being 'vendor locked' into whoever makes your car?

Do you enjoy being vender locked into whoever provides your electricity or water?

Get over yourself and off your high horse, iPhone/Apple users are known as smug asswipes, you'd fit right in as you are certainly a smug asswipe who thinks his shit (software of choice) is the only one that doesn't stink.

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[SparkEE]

TeleNav makes an App for the G1. I've been using it for about 4 months now since it came out. It's free to download and try for 30 days. Then it's a subscription service, costing $10 per month. I've been quite happy with it and consider it well worth the $10.

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[GweeDo]

I think he means locked out of running his own apps. With Andriod, WinMo and the like you can run whatever you darn well feel like. Not just apps that Apple has approved.

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[goofyspouse]

Price: $999.99
Shipping: FREE

Wow and WOW!

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[ergo98]

Such uncalled for hostility.

In any case, an open source operating system currently supported by at least four major manufacturers (and it's growing) isn't quite the same, especially considering the growing platform of hardware. And have you not been paying attention regarding Apple lately?

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[Anonymous Coward]

Copilot is a functional product for android. There are some performance issues, but it does the trick for $35. http://www.alk.com/copilot/android/

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[dangitman]

What did you expect?

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[Anonymous Coward]

I just purchased CoPilot Live for Android, and I tested it out once, so this isn't coming from an experienced user.

That said, it seems to convert your Android-based phone into a fully-functional GPS navigation device. You download the maps directly to your phone or to a PC and copy them to your phone. Voice navigation and turn-by-turn stuff is there, and it did a good job at recalculating the route if I missed my turn.

Just make sure you have a way to charge your phone while you're in the car. Having this thing on all the time and constantly using the GPS antenna is a quick way to drain your battery.

The best part is that it's a one-time $35 fee, as opposed to a subscription or a ridiculously-expensive TomTom addon. My only concern about not subscribing is that map updates might be few and far between, or require another purchase.

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[WiseWeasel]

There are no unlocked iPhones for sale in the US. There are *unsubsidized* ones that work with AT&T planless pay-as-you-go contracts, but you're still locked to AT&T.

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[Mattsson]

If/when Android gets a large enough userbase for it to be profitable for Tom Tom, or one of its competitors, to release a GPS-navigator application for the platform, someone probably will...

Re:Will there be an adroid version?

[Mattsson]

An unlocked Iphone, even if jailbroken, is still a vendor-locked software platform.
You can not use the Ipod/Iphone OS on hardware from any other vendor than Apple.

Expensive, but saves on devices

[hattig]

"if you receive a call while you're driving then the app does cut out"

What? If you answer, or just because you receive a call?

The former - well, if you're not using handsfree, you shouldn't be answering. TomTom are releasing some hardware for the iPhone that incorporates handfree features however...

If the latter - Apple: sort this stuff out! This is basic functionality, keeping an application running whilst taking a call.

Re:Expensive, but saves on devices

[Anonymous Coward]

This is basic functionality, keeping an application running whilst taking a call.

That is not how the iPhone OS works. There is no such thing as a non-native app running in the background.

Re:Expensive, but saves on devices

[metamatic]

It's funny, just the other day on Slashdot I saw people claiming that the average person doesn't care about the lack of multi-tasking.

Re:Expensive, but saves on devices

[Anubis IV]

You can still run applications while using the phone operations, but whenever you receive a call, the phone preempts the active application to display the caller and the answer button on the screen. If you answer, the screen then displays the phone controls, such as speaker, conference call, hold, and other similar functions. To me, that sounds like the correct behavior, since if I'm talking on the phone, I want to have access to phone controls by default, unless I choose otherwise.

And you are capable of choosing otherwise. All you have to do is hit the home button while talking on the phone and you can launch other applications while the phone application operates in the background and displays a small bar across the top of the screen. So, viewing maps while talking would still be possible.

Re:Expensive, but saves on devices

[sjf]

Not really. This is how an application must behave in order to get approved for the Apple Store.
Moreover, we can assume that Tom Tom are not beholden to the regular Apple agreement, since that also prohibits developing turn by turn voice navigation applications.
It's foolish to make assumptions about the behaviour of the OS from the terms of Apple's agreement, especially when Tom Tom are clearly a special case.
Plenty of applications available through Cydia can background.

ObComment: yes, way too expensive. I'll stick to xGPS for free from Cydia.

Re:Expensive, but saves on devices

[Pieroxy]

since that also prohibits developing turn by turn voice navigation applications

This is a thing of the past. Plenty of applications do turn by turn navigation nowadays. I believe it is now possible since OS3.0.

Re:Expensive, but saves on devices

[Anonymous Coward]

Yo moron: Apple rescinded the ban on turn-by-turn directions months ago, which is why there are a ton of such apps in the store now.

Re:Expensive, but saves on devices

[hattig]

So basically the summary and article are incorrect? The application doesn't quit, it's just waiting behind the phone call interface (how else can you take a phone call!), running happily.

Re:Expensive, but saves on devices

[Anubis IV]

No, the application does quit to bring up the phone interface, but I wasn't contesting that. What I was pointing out was the fact that you could easily circumvent the default behavior by simply relaunching the app. And since you'd be on the same page after exiting the phone interface, it'd be a one-touch procedure.

Re:Expensive, but saves on devices

[hattig]

How long does the iPhone TomTom application take to find the satellites and all that lark?

Still, it's not like GPS is something you need on all the time, and you're unlikely to answer a phone call when coming up to a major intersection you need the GPS for because you've never been on it before...

You're kidding me.

[fahrvergnugen]

Wow, this is a crap deal. How disappointing. Why is the app is 1.2GB in size, when the iPhone is designed as an always-on device? A $30 1GB app with paid map downloads on demand, instead of storing the entire USA on the phone at once, would make much more sense. I agree that streaming maps (such as the google maps app) are useless if you're in the sticks with no coverage or Edge-only coverage, but giving up over 1/8th or 1/16th of my total storage for maps I won't use 99% of the time is a terrible compromise. if I could install map packs based on my travel plans, that would make much more sense. And $100 for the USA, when I can buy a standalone TomTom 125 for $80? Unless the $100 app has feature parity with the $400 standalone units, the only conclusion I can come to is that they are trying to incentivise people away from using the iPhone app, and toward buying a dedicated GPS unit instead. I can think of no other excuse. Bad form, guys. I hope someone sees the market opportunity and steals your cake.

Re:You're kidding me.

[larry bagina]

They're planning on releasing a gps/car kit so it can also be used with the iPod touch.

Re:You're kidding me.

[Enuratique]

Wow, this is a crap deal. How disappointing. Bad form, guys. I hope someone sees the market opportunity and steals your cake.

Agreed. I've heard licensing the map data represents a healthy chunk of the cost so I doubt you'd ever see a competitor sell just the app for less than $50. Still, you've hit the head on the nail that this is TomTom trying to compete with the iPhone instead of complement it.

Re:You're kidding me.

[fahrvergnugen]

Ugh. Sorry about that post. Slashdot ate my formatting, and of course I meant "$30 100MB app," not "1GB app." Need more coffee.

Re:You're kidding me.

[dubbreak]

They're planning on releasing a gps/car kit so it can also be used with the iPod touch.

Which would explain the large file size (app + map data for North America). The size isn't even a slight surprise to me. It's definitely a lot more convenient than your phone downloading the same stuff over and over (yes they could do some kind of caching, but 1gb isn't much to complain about, seriously).

Because of upcoming release I was holding out on buying a small gps unit since I have an Ipod touch already. I'm glad I broke down and bought a small TomTom unit for ~$100 now that the pricing is out. If the app alone is £60, how much more is the cradle going to cost? I had envisioned getting the software and cradle for less than their current entry level hardware as the hardware is already there. Oh well. It'll eventually come down.

Re:You're kidding me.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmm, you are missing the whole point of a 1.2 GB download (less if you don't want the entire Europe for example) which is that you don't have to download it everytime you go somewhere (even with some form of caching), even when you don't have a 3G/EDGE connection... You don't want to pay for it everytime either (not everybody has free & open wifi access points everywhere, especially in Europe).

Re:You're kidding me.

[PhilHibbs]

I disagree - having map data in poor signal areas is valuable, and also international data roaming charges are pretty horrendous. I didn't use my iPhone for sat nav while in France the last two weeks for the latter reason.

Re:You're kidding me.

[gad_zuki!]

Yeah, I dont understand the market for this or the co-pilot products for other smartphones. For the same money I get a stand-alone GPS and I dont have to worry about an ugly cumbersome adapter, draining battery, wear and tear on my phone, not being able to do calls and gps at the same time, etc. Heck, Id rather have a thief take my $99 GPS than my iphone, which must cost $500 or so off-contract.

A couple of years ago GPS devices hit the 99 dollar mark. Prior to that I could see an argument for the co-pilot software/hardware, but right now this stuff seems pretty useless.

Re:You're kidding me.

[jimbo]

I live in Canada and do not have an expensive data plan. I often use wifi instead but that won't work well in a car. So you see - Tomtom's solution is perfect for me.

Oh yeah I read ebooks more than listening to music - 3/4 of my storage is currently unused.

Re:You're kidding me.

[rm999]

1.2 GB is nothing - upgrading from the 16 GB to 32 GB iPhone costs 100 dollars, so consider it a $7.50 tax. If you would never have any interest in upgrading, than 16 GB is probably more than ample space and it's not an issue anyway. Anyway, with Moore's Law in full effect, 1 GB will seem like nothing within two years.

Also, I don't see how 100 dollars is too much. People are currently willing to spend 80 dollars on a crappy, bulky unit without bluetooth (and last I checked, GPS unit sales are going strong). Why wouldn't these same people be willing to pay a little more to use the unit they already have - a much sleeker iPhone with built-in bluetooth and phone (so you don't have to fumble with the unit when you get a phone call)?

I don't know if you drive much, but IMO the other costs of driving dwarfs the 100 dollars we're talking about here. Especially when you average that cost over several years.

Re:You're kidding me.

[Braedley]

That's not the point ^^ was making. Give us a relatively cheap ($30-40US) app with inexpensive (or even free) map packs. You download only the the maps that you need for the foreseeable future, and save a lot of space on your iPhone. Say you live in Maine, but are taking a trip to NYC. Then you would download only the New England maps. Going across the country to San Fransisco? Download the maps between Maine and California, but not any of the Canada, southeast US, or northwest US maps. You would save a lot of space, and probably some money as well.

Re:You're kidding me.

[jasonhamilton]

You make good points, but by the same logic, I could say that I want a phone that does only phone calls, to save wear and tear on my mp3 player. I could also say I want a palm pilot for a PDA. And a dedicated PVP for video on the go.

In the end, you will have a dozen digital devices, when you could have done it with just one.

Re:You're kidding me.

[rm999]

I thought I was arguing that less gadgets are better than more.

Anyway, this app isn't targeting everyone. But I know enough people who have been waiting for exactly this that I predict it will end up on the App Store's top selling lists. And at 80 dollars each, that wouldn't be too shabby.

Re:You're kidding me.

[Anonymous Coward]

but giving up over 1/8th or 1/16th of my total storage for maps I won't use 99% of the time is a terrible compromise.

Yes, it sounds like this would be a terrible compromise for you. You probably shouldn't buy it. Not everyone has your same usage patterns. There are those that use their GPS daily, and in this case it's a perfectly acceptable compromise.

And $100 for the USA, when I can buy a standalone TomTom 125 for $80?

Most people don't want to carry around a TomTom 125 everywhere they go, especially when they're already carrying around their iPhone.

Unless the $100 app has feature parity with the $400 standalone units, the only conclusion I can come to is that they are trying to incentivise people away from using the iPhone app

I can think of another reason: Because people will pay it. I agree that it seems quite expensive, but if people are willing to pay it then they priced it perfectly well.

Re:You're kidding me.

[Professor_UNIX]

His point though is that unless you plan on being kidnapped anytime soon, you're probably going to know ahead of time which areas of the country you'll need GPS maps for and would be able to pre-load those for a trip. The sad fact of the matter is that I don't believe the iPhone offers any way to have "map packs" like a traditional GPS so it's an all-or-nothing type deal. I'll stick with a standalone GPS.

Re:You're kidding me.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know how similarly it behaves to the iPhone version, but the google maps application for Symbian devices is really annoying when you lose signal. I was driving to a fairly remote village in the UK, got to within 10 miles of my destination and it lost signal. This shouldn't have been a problem, as I'd already looked at the area (I'd checked the route out before hand, as there were a few tricky areas), but the damned app insisted on having a connection! In the end, I navigated the last of the way by hitting reconnect repeatedly, as I could see the map while it was trying to connect, but not when it was warning me of a failure!

Re:You're kidding me.

[prockcore]

I thought the whole point of having a sim-based phone is that when you are going to be in france for two weeks, you can just buy a pre-paid sim card.

Re:You're kidding me.

[erple2]

If only there was some sort of small, removable storage media that you could plug into portable devices like the iPhone. I wonder when they're going to invent something like that... Then I wouldn't need to worry about this application eating up 1/8 of the total storage on the iPhone.

Re:You're kidding me.

[Just Some Guy]

I disagree - having map data in poor signal areas is valuable

...so they should write the app to maintain a configurable-radius circle mapped around you. If you're in South Dakota heading west, that might be a good (and algorithmically detectable) time to start caching Wyoming.

Re:You're kidding me.

[hao3]

Wow, this is a crap deal. How disappointing. ... giving up over 1/8th or 1/16th of my total storage for maps I won't use 99% of the time is a terrible compromise.

THERE ARE OTHER PEOPLE IN THE WORLD BESIDE YOU.

Re:You're kidding me.

[CountBrass]

How does Slashdot formatting turn "100 MB" into "1GB"? Sounds to me like you were trying to distance yourself from an embarassing, ill-informed, rant.

I don't blame you.

Re:You're kidding me.

[Sandbags]

1) internet is not allways on. In fact, there are loads of places I drive where I have no signal at all, but want access to travel data, or need to get feedback from the GPS (like how to go around a wreck blocking the freeway). If WiFi and Cell signals were down, this would be impossible unless you "prepped" your entire journey in advance and downloaded all "near route" data. Doing that on a case by case basis would also place a MASSIVE burden on TomToms systems, which do NOT do that today.
2) ITS LIFETIME FREE MAP AND SOFTWARE UPDATES!!!, not $39-59 per year on the hardware devices to get new maps, and which can never really have their OS overhauled to add new features either.
3) it includes tomtomIQ and realtime traffic. I know of no standalone GPS units anywhere near the price of this app, let alone 3 times it, that have live feed for that data, without also having to have a cell phone with bluetooth connect and a data plan and a tethering plan...
4) I have a 16GB 3GS, and I'm only using just over half the space... saccrificing 1.x GB is no big deal if it saves me $200 on a good standalone, or $400 on a real-time-enabled standalone.
5) I have it ALLWAYS with me, which I do not find is the case with a standalone GPS... Also real handy walking around city streets where a car based GPS is useless.

i agree the rumored $200 tomtom car dock sounds way overpriced, however, if it includes the app (potentially in the form of a $99 iTunes gift card), then that's reasonable. i was expecting a $129-149 price tag. I'm sure market feedback and lackluster sales will realize a lower price sooner rather than later on that item.

I also expect the app price WILL be reduced to $79, at least periodically on sale if not permanantly later on.

Re:You're kidding me.

[Have Blue]

The iPhone does support in-app storefronts for arbitrary content, I guess TomTom just chose not to use it.

Re:You're kidding me.

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't have an iPhone but surely you could put it on the memory card, right? Then you can insert the memory card with the GPS maps on it when you need to use it, and put in the memory card wih the mp3s or whatever when you're not GPSing. That's how most phones GPS nav software works.

Re:You're kidding me.

[mgblst]

You are an idiot. This maybe a bit harsh, but it is true. If you can't see the point of having all the map available to you at anytime, no matter where you are, then plainly put, you are an idiot.

Re:You're kidding me.

[itsme1234]

Wow, this is a crap deal. How disappointing. Why is the app is 1.2GB in size, when the iPhone is designed as an always-on device? A $30 1GB app with paid map downloads on demand, instead of storing the entire USA on the phone at once, would make much more sense. I agree that streaming maps (such as the google maps app) are useless if you're in the sticks with no coverage or Edge-only coverage, but giving up over 1/8th or 1/16th of my total storage for maps I won't use 99% of the time is a terrible compromise. if I could install map packs based on my travel plans, that would make much more sense. And $100 for the USA, when I can buy a standalone TomTom 125 for $80? Unless the $100 app has feature parity with the $400 standalone units, the only conclusion I can come to is that they are trying to incentivise people away from using the iPhone app, and toward buying a dedicated GPS unit instead. I can think of no other excuse. Bad form, guys. I hope someone sees the market opportunity and steals your cake.

If as you said you won't be using this application much this isn't for you, just plain and simple. However for MANY OTHER users the GPS application on their PDAs/phones/etc is the most expensive and used application. Most of them would consider 1/16 or 1/32 of the space on the device put to good use to have it there and don't mess with roaming charges, 3G coverage, having the right data plan next time you renew your contract and having Apple store and Tomtom giving you access to the content you paid next year. The last point is especially valid as already big names like Microsoft, Yahoo, Wallmart closed their digital stores leaving their customers in various states of limbo with their DRM files; I'm really surprised that people would advocate today "streaming" something you paid for versus just "having a copy" (especially with Amazon's Kindle 1984 "here's your copy, now we're taking it back" crap).

What's more if you have already internet access most of the time it means you save quite a bit of space on the phone (for example you don't need to keep a multi-GB offline wikipedia snapshot) and it is more likely to have more space available.

YES, TomTom had for a long while a problem (as in it doesn't work) with using multiple maps (probably still has). Basically unlike iGo for example you couldn't just drop whatever maps you want in a folder (usually one file per country/state in the US); instead you would get a huge map (let's say Western Europe) and still you wouldn't be able to combine it with other maps you already bought and use with the same program (like Eastern Europe for example). This was actually a big problem in 2005 (storage, CPU) but not so much now. Of course if Apple had left any way of extending the storage on the iPhone (*SD card, USB host, etc) we wouldn't be having this discussion but still for many users it's an acceptable compromise.

Re:You're kidding me.

[fahrvergnugen]

You fail at reading comprehension. I wasn't advocating streaming.

Re:You're kidding me.

[RhadamanthosIsChaos]

Where did you get your info for point 2? I couldn't find any corroboration of that on TomTom's site, and the reviews I read said they hadn't listed any pricing for updates yet? I'd consider getting the app if it were true, that's a pretty good deal compared to the hardware device.

Re:You're kidding me.

[Sandbags]

Ars Technica indicated that in their article about the release. As well, a prior press interview with a TomTom senior director stated tomtom was "leaning" towards the subscription free model, with lifetime app updates included.

Since the maps are integral to the app, part of the download, by updating the app, you are also updating the maps.

It is Apple's policy as well that "content" updates, through their 3.1 in-app purchase will be accepted, where new features and extended content are offered, but Apple will not permit appendments or fixes to existing content to be charged that way (which a map update is simply a data patch in most ways you can look at it). Adding additional countries would certainly be accepted for in-app purchase charges, but not content "fixes". Also, version changes (1.0 to 2.0) rarely come at anything but free for existing app owners. Even in cases where apps were free but add funded, and they moved to a purchase model, existing free app opwners get to update to the paid app for free unless the devs convince Apple it;s truly a new revolutionary revision justifying it as now a new application. They can;'t just release TomTom 2.0 as a whole new app and charge another $99 for it if it's not radically different from TomTom 1.0, and there's no in-app support for upgrading code at a fee, only content.

There's really only one way TomTom can go with this, and that seems consistent with Ars's article.

Re:You're kidding me.

[llamafirst]

The sad fact of the matter is that I don't believe the iPhone offers any way to have "map packs" like a traditional GPS so it's an all-or-nothing type deal.

if they want to, developers of iPhone 3.0 OS apps can offer "add-ons" within their applications, with publicly supported APIs and integration with the iTunes store. See:

http://developer.apple.com/iphone/program/sdk/inapppurchase.html

I dunno if the size of the downloads would in practice thwart this plan to use those APIs. i guess it depends on the granularity

But either way, it seems like app developer could sell GPS data for each US state (for large states or region (in regions with smaller states) as a separate app in the itunes store.

Requirement

[Anonymous Coward]

I've only developed one app for the iphone, but I remember reading the long list of requirements your app has to do to meet apple standards--one of which I believe is that it does need some action to handle phone calls so I'm under the impression that cutting out to take a call is not a developer fault, but rather a requirement.

receiving a call is the biggest complaint?

[horatio]

but if you receive a call while you're driving then the app does cut out -- it will restart once you've finished the conversation

My Garmin, when connected to my phone (any phone, not just iPhone) via bluetooth does exactly the same thing. It supresses the nav prompts until you complete the call. I don't understand why this is a complaint? Especially for this particular situation since you're running this app on a PHONE whose primary purpose is to receive CALLS. Or have I missed something obvious?

No, because TFA actually says "For those of you wondering what happens when you get a call, the app turns off but restarts as soon as you finish the call, so it's not too bad."

Re:receiving a call is the biggest complaint?

[Colonel Korn]

but if you receive a call while you're driving then the app does cut out -- it will restart once you've finished the conversation

My Garmin, when connected to my phone (any phone, not just iPhone) via bluetooth does exactly the same thing. It supresses the nav prompts until you complete the call. I don't understand why this is a complaint? Especially for this particular situation since you're running this app on a PHONE whose primary purpose is to receive CALLS. Or have I missed something obvious?

No, because TFA actually says "For those of you wondering what happens when you get a call, the app turns off but restarts as soon as you finish the call, so it's not too bad."

I agree that it's not a big deal, but it's true that on several year old WinMo phones you can receive or make a call without leaving your navigation program. That can be occasionally useful.

Re:receiving a call is the biggest complaint?

[nedlohs]

Because you might actually want to know about the freeway exit you needed to take when someone called to ask when you were arriving.

You might like the volume off, I'm sure other people don't and yet more other people don't want the map to vanish.

Re:receiving a call is the biggest complaint?

[Joce640k]

...are you even supposed to be talking on your 'phone when driving?

Re:receiving a call is the biggest complaint?

[natehoy]

Think about it. This is someone who is using SatNav on a handheld. Receiving a call is simply replacing one distraction with another.

Actually, dropping SatNav when the phone rings is probably a brilliant move. Imagine someone driving in traffic trying to hold a phone conversation AND watch their SatNav. It leaves absolutely no hands free to eat a burger.

Anyway, you're right. You really should park somewhere so you can have your conversation without being distracted by pesky pedestrians bouncing off your hood. Let me tell you, if those buggers survive their screams can really drown out a conversation. Especially the younger ones. I've been in the middle of closing a tough deal, been about to say "Yes", and had some asshat I'm about to hit yell "NO!" and screw up the whole deal, tens of thousands of dollars. It's annoying.

Re:receiving a call is the biggest complaint?

[kannibal_klown]

My Garmin, when connected to my phone (any phone, not just iPhone) via bluetooth does exactly the same thing. It supresses the nav prompts until you complete the call. I don't understand why this is a complaint? Especially for this particular situation since you're running this app on a PHONE whose primary purpose is to receive CALLS. Or have I missed something obvious?

No, because TFA actually says "For those of you wondering what happens when you get a call, the app turns off but restarts as soon as you finish the call, so it's not too bad."

I have a factory-installed system in my 2006 GM car. I don't know the brand, but it's a 6CD in-dash stereo and DVD GPS nav and doesn't have bluetooth.

I have the OnStar prepaid plan for the rare instances when I need to make a call.

Anyway, if I'm driving with my GPS directions on the GPS will continue to speak while I'm on the phone. I *think* the screen only changes to the "phone" for the first 15 seconds of the call so I can see the number, then it returns to the GPS.

This way works out fine for me, except when someone calls right around the time I'm getting a bunch of directions in which case I might ask them to call me back. But that has less to do with the voice GPS, and more to do with driving somewhere when I don't know the area well.

Re:receiving a call is the biggest complaint?

[dunkelfalke]

This is because Windows Mobile allows multitasking.

Re:receiving a call is the biggest complaint?

[LiquidFire_HK]

Wait, the iPhone doesn't? (This is a genuine question. I have a Symbian phone but have never even touched an iPhone)

Re:receiving a call is the biggest complaint?

[dangitman]

I agree that it's not a big deal, but it's true that on several year old WinMo phones you can receive or make a call without leaving your navigation program. That can be occasionally useful.

For those times when you really want to crash your car?

Re:receiving a call is the biggest complaint?

[dangitman]

But why would you answer your phone while driving? It doesn't make sense.

Re:receiving a call is the biggest complaint?

[nedlohs]

Because that's what phones are for.

Re:receiving a call is the biggest complaint?

[dunkelfalke]

Only for two or three Apple programs. The rest works like the good old Palm OS.

Re:receiving a call is the biggest complaint?

[dangitman]

Phones are specifically for answering calls while driving? I don't think so, and it's illegal in most places. You're looking at it the wrong way around. Cars are for driving, not answering calls. If you're driving a car, that's what you are supposed to be doing, not anything else. The law (and common sense) requires it.

Is a phone call really more important than your life?

Re:receiving a call is the biggest complaint?

[nedlohs]

Some people aren't completely socially inept and have other people in the car with them who can answer the damn phone pretty safely.

Others have these magical devices called hands-free-kits which let them legally (but not much more safely) answer the phone while driving. Others are in jurisdictions where using a phone while driving is perfectly legal (not anymore safely of course).

Again, what is the point of the phone muting the GPS navigator other than making talking on it while driving easier?

Seriously if you think no one in the world talks on a phone while driving or has a passenger answer their phone while driving you are epically stupid.

Re:receiving a call is the biggest complaint?

[Colonel Korn]

I agree that it's not a big deal, but it's true that on several year old WinMo phones you can receive or make a call without leaving your navigation program. That can be occasionally useful.

For those times when you really want to crash your car?

I find GPS to be a lot more useful with a dedicated navigator in the passenger seat.

Re:receiving a call is the biggest complaint?

[dangitman]

Some people aren't completely socially inept and have other people in the car with them who can answer the damn phone pretty safely.

It has nothing to do with social ability. And if you have someone else in the car to answer the phone, then that's fine. But that's not what you were implying by your previous post.

Others have these magical devices called hands-free-kits which let them legally (but not much more safely) answer the phone while driving.

You said it yourself - it has shown to be not much more safe than answering the phone without a hands-free kit. So why would you do it?

Again, what is the point of the phone muting the GPS navigator other than making talking on it while driving easier?

There is no other point. Which is why it shouldn't be done. It's a dangerous feature.

Seriously if you think no one in the world talks on a phone while driving or has a passenger answer their phone while driving you are epically stupid.

What the hell? Of course I know people do it. What I'm saying is that they shouldn't. People that do so are stupid. Why would an intelligent person do such a thing?

Re:receiving a call is the biggest complaint?

[nedlohs]

It's got nothing to do with safety. It's just technology.

But muting the phone is encouraging talking on it while driving and at the same time making the driving part harder.

Similarly with the iphone and turning the entire map off on a call.

It's the way the devices work and they both seem stupid. Then again I'd rather my devices didn't stop me doing stupid things when I want to.

I don't drive as car at all, so driving while on the phone is obviously something I have never done. But it's completely irrelevant to the point that was being discussed, well until the moralist arrived anyway.

Re:receiving a call is the biggest complaint?

[dangitman]

It's got nothing to do with safety. It's just technology.

Technology has nothing to do with safety, or the way people behave? I'm not sure what kind of bizarro reality you must live in. These things are intimately related. Technology does not exist in a vacuum.

An Outrageous Price!

[ajdowntown]

The price on $99 just seems wildly optimistic to me on the parts of Tom-Tom. CoPilot also just release a new GPS maps software, but for only $35, about 1/3rd the price. So, is Tom-Tom really that much better to justify the steep price tag? I am not trying to troll, I really want to know if it is...? If I were to get the Tom-Tom software, I would most likely get the mount/GPS extender, which hasn't even released a price for yet, so the totally cost just sky-rockets. Find out more about the Tom-Tom iPhone software and mount at iPhone.tomtom.com

Re:An Outrageous Price!

[njfuzzy]

I agree on the pricing. Total missed opportunity.

Re:!GPS

[twoshortplanks]

I think you're confused. A iPhone 3G / iPhone 3GS certainly does have GPS signal receiving hardware in it. It was, along with the new look and 3G, the main differences between the iPhone "Classic" and the new model.

Yes...I'm an idiot

[Danathar]

Ok. I was wrong. I honestly did not understand that there is a GPS chip of somsort in my iphone.

Re:Yes...I'm an idiot

[mgblst]

Oh, don't let not knowing anything stop your from commenting. How else will we know how much of a wanker you are?

IT manager I presume?

Re:!GPS

[Anonymous Coward]

uh, iPhone has had GPS since the 3G model came out last year. Where have you been?

Re:!GPS

[Anonymous Coward]

Infact your wrong. If you look on Apples website (http://www.apple.com/iphone/iphone-3gs/maps-compass.html)

"iPhone 3GS finds your location quickly and accurately via GPS, Wi-Fi, and cellular towers. Drop a pin to mark your location or share it with others via email or MMS."

It uses a comblination of technologies. Cellular towers to get a location quickly and then GPS to get a more accurate position.

Re:!GPS

[fahrvergnugen]

While you're correct about the original silver-back iPhone, the iPhone 3G & 3Gs have A-GPS. A-GPS is a system that uses cell tower & wireless hotspot triangulation to get the receiver's general location, then uses the GPS antenna to nail down the final position. In this way they can get a fix just as quickly as a device that only has a GPS antenna, while using less battery on the handset acquiring a signal.

Wrong

[aardwolf64]

Wrong... It uses cell tower-assisted GPS. This is most definitely GPS, and uses the GPS chip in the iPhone. It's not compatible with the original iPhone, because there is no GPS.

I am concerned by this application

[For a Free Internet]

In todays world we need to be vigilantly aware of the geopolitical implications of our computing. Wide-spread access to G.P.S. positioning system datas could allow terrorists or Italians to locate large crowds of innocent Americans or our Heroic Men Women and Children in Uniform more quickly, nefariously, and devastatingly. Why is no one talking about this? Everything has changed in the post-9/11 world!

Re:I am concerned by this application

[GigaHurtsMyRobot]

You're a redundant idiot idiot. Widespread access to GPS doesn't provide anyone anything, other than the ability to triangulate their own location. They are called GPS "RECEIVERS" for a reason... They do not transmit anything.

Re:I am concerned by this application

[Anonymous Coward]

wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh. That was the sound of the joke flying past you, but you can't find it because you're only holding a reciever!

Re:!GPS

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do people keep calling these things "Sat Nav" or GPS? It most CERTAINLY does not use space based satellites for navigation but uses cell tower and/or motion detectors to find out where you are. I was laughing when they guy said in the video "I don't have GPS indoors" and then proceeded to say that once it was outdoors it would be able to pick up the satellite.

Because they *are* satellite navigation devices? The iPhone *does* have GPS built in, and CERTAINLY DOES use space based satellites for navigation. It DOES NOT use the cell tower or motion detectors to find out where you are.

You are terribly confused about how all this stuff actually works...

Re:!GPS

[Old97]

Wrong. The iPhone 3G and 3Gs and the Pre have real GPS antennae. They are getting satellite navigation augmented by cell tower triangulation and motion for improved accuracy. It's SAT Nav alright.

Re:!GPS

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice trolling!

Re:!GPS

[ben0207]

But... it is GPS...

iPhone value prop

[Pointy_Hair]

Is probably having on-board maps. The built in app works great as long as you have a good network connection. Get in an area without 3G and the buiilt-in app gets pretty useless if you're moving.

Telenav on the iPhone in the US

[Anonymous Coward]

For those that don't know, TeleNav is available for the iPhone in the US. AT&T does charge a $10 a month fee to use it, but the app itself is free and available through the app store. It provides turn by turn and all the usual stuff. It also works with the iphone so that if you are playing music or get a call, it goes back to the nav and always saves recent places in it. This is the same app I used to have for free on my Sprint Instinct, and is the same thing Sprint Navigation on other phones is. It's just called AT&T Nav instead. I've always been happy with it from my Sprint phone and when I got my iphone a couple months ago, I decided it was worth the $10 a month for me to have the same app. I may cancel it here soon for using my in car nav system that I'm getting with my new vehicle.

Re:Telenav on the iPhone in the US

[AndrewNeo]

There's two issues with subscription GPS - the bigger one being a dependancy on cellular service. If you're in a dead zone, and lost, the last thing you want is the GPS app you're paying $10/mo. for not to work. The other is, after 10 months, the TomTom app has paid for itself in comparison. (This is also true of getting a standard GPS nav for your car. I find having TomTom on my phone to be much more convenient, though.)

Upcoming Car Kit

[JHromadka]

Hopefully TomTom can get its upcoming car kit that has improved GPS and charging to work with the iPod Touch.

Re:Upcoming Car Kit

[AndrewNeo]

If the software can depend entirely on the car kit's attached GPS (which it should be able to), there's no reason it wouldn't work with the Touch. There's no hardware or software difference when it comes to communicating over the dock connector.

Re:!GPS

[xjerky]

Huh. I didn't realize that the 3G/3GS still used triangulation for assistance. I've wondered why both Google Maps and xGPS (for jailbroken iPhones) can almost immediately determine my location, but Navigon and Sygic take almost a minute to do so. Perhaps the latter apps rely on GPS only.

Re:!GPS

[Blakey Rat]

Ooo, ooo, I want to pile-on the dumb post!

iPhone 3G and newer have GPS chips in them. Only the first generation iPhone uses cell towers to figure out its position!

Woo! Now I get a redundant mod!

Typical.....

[LibertineR]

Apple users will pay double for an app with functionality that we've had on our Blackberries for years.

I use the fantastic TeleNav app on my Blackberry Storm, an app that lets me call in addresses which are automatically downloaded to my phone. I dont have to type anything, EVER.

But, I do understand that no technology is actually REAL until Apple puts out something with it. Never mind that the first 2 iPhones didn't even have a GPS chip. Now that Apple's got this Tom-Tom app, GPS Turn-by-turn will be all the rage.

I keep forgetting that unless I wait years for the privilege of paying double, so that my technical toys come with that Apple logo, I just wont ever be a hipster!

Re:Typical.....

[natehoy]

Nav4All is also a good turn-by-turn app for the BlackBerry, and while it isn't nearly as nice as TeleNav, it does have the advantage of being free.

TeleNav would be my choice if I traveled a lot and really needed turn-by-turn often, of course, but I might use turn-by-turn about 3-4 times a year, and $10 a month is just too rich for those odd occasions when I do.

Re:Typical.....

[JaredOfEuropa]

That's a bit harsh... but I do agree that it's somewhat strange that this "news" is making headlines all over tech blogs and news sites. It's not new software or a new phone... but since it is about the iPhone, it is news all of a sudden. A port to whatever OS runs on the latest Nokia's wouldn't draw nearly as many comments.

As for the price... I am a little surprised by the hefty price tag TomTom put on its iPhone product, but it has little to do with shiny Apple logos. I paid 50 euro for the equally good Navigon software with US maps for the iPhone. The European maps were 70 euro IIRC, and that includes Eastern European countries. Sounds like a perfectly reasonable price for software like that.

Never mind that the first 2 iPhones didn't even have a GPS chip.

Oh, don't get me started on the earlier Blackberry models. Dear god...
Apple got something right with the iPhone. Before, I thought that ease of use and responsiveness of the UI were nice-to-haves on a cell phone. Then I got the iPhone... and ever since I wouldn't want to go back to Blackberries or Windows Mobile devices, ever. And I am not a fanboi either, besides an iPod I do not own any Apple devices.

Re:Typical.....

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey asshole, there are plenty of GPS navigation apps for the iPhone out there already, for less money. What makes you think that TomTom is the first? The fact that you're an idiot, perhaps? Don't assume, it makes an ass out of you and you.

Re:Typical.....

[LibertineR]

Hey asshole, you missed the point entirely.

Of course there are other iPhone GPS apps out there. How many of them are on the front page of hundreds of web sites this morning? Why is this announcement getting so much airplay?

Fuck you.

Re:Typical.....

[Comatose51]

Because some jackass company released an overpriced app, it doesn't mean people will buy it and pay for it. Way to go with the over generalization and faulty logic.

Re:Typical.....

[BitZtream]

AT&T has the same service for the iPhone, and just like your blackberry you pay for it monthly for the privledge of being able to call someone to give you the directions.

As someone who develops for blackberrys, winmobile and iphones, and having an iPod touch, 2 iPhones and several blackberry's including a couple of storms laying in my desk. The blackberry's appeal still blows my mind, you can dislike the iphone, for many man reasons that I understand, but Blackberrys have all pretty much sucked ass compared to their competition. Use a decent WinMobile device if you don't like the iPhone but for fucks sake wake up and realize your blackberry is a pile of crap with a UI designed by someone who must have never had to actually use the phone in the real world, or at best has never used another phone in their life.

Re:Typical.....

[LibertineR]

I had an iPhone. Gave it back. Why? What good is a phone that cant connect to anything thanks to AT&T? The Storm via Verizon is sufficient for my needs. Wish we had more and better apps, but there is NO app that can get me back with AT&T. If Verizon gets the iPhone, I might take another look.

Re:Typical.....

[JaredOfEuropa]

What good is a phone that cant connect to anything thanks to AT&T?

Fair enough... in Europe we are somewhat luckier. The official iPhone provider in the Netherlands is T-mobile, not a bad provider, but if I want a different one I can buy an iPhone in Belgium or Italy, where simlocking is forbidden by law. Mine came from a Dutch store that imported the phones from one of those countries, and I can stick any sim-card in there to make it work. The provider I selected even sponsored part of the phone in exchange for me signing a 1-year contract.

Re:Typical.....

[yabos]

"The first 2 iPhones didn't even have a GPS chip"

Actually, only the first iPhone didn't have GPS. The 3G has GPS but no magnetometer(compass) and the 3GS has both.

You can't even compare the BB Storm to the iPhone. I've used both and the UI on the Storm is a joke, plus you get the LCD warp when you press in the screen.

Re:Typical.....

[Ma8thew]

Your post is full of anger, but not a lot of fact. The original iPhone did not have GPS, but the two most recent generations have. And you seem to be under the impression that Apple have something to do with this app, when in fact there have been GPS apps for the iPhone since the opening of the app store, most of them cheaper than this one.

What I really don't understand about your post is that you seem to think that people who buy the iPhone are idiots or are misinformed. Just as I recognise that the iPhone is not for everyone (I'm sure your Blackberry works great for you), maybe you should recognise that the iPhone is a good choice for some people. Apple are clearly doing something right with 99% satisfaction ratings

Re:Typical.....

[babyrat]

Apple users will pay double for an app with functionality that we've had on our Blackberries for years.

That may or may not be the case in general, however in this particular instance, $99 to buy the App seems significantly cheaper than $9.99/month that the TeleNav app on your blackberry costs. Well they do offer a discount - $99/yr or $249 for a 4 year plan.

I can't believe those blackberry users will pay $10 /month for a GPS App that I can buy on my iPhone for only $100.

Re:Typical.....

[LibertineR]

Okay, let me slow it down for you a bit?

I have zero problems with the iPhone, I used to own one. What I have a problem with, are typical apple product users. I am sure that the Tom-Tom folks did their market research, and discovered that your typical Apple buyer is not very price sensitive. This is why you get the outrageous pricing for most things Apple, when the rest of the smartphone market would NEVER charge $100 for this app.

Apple, through its naive, too-cool-for-school user base, has allowed to overcharged that base for decades.

I watched the Tom-Tom demo video, and in no way does it compare to the TeleNav functionality. But, again, because its for the iPhone, the developer can pretty much charge whatever they want. That should make YOU angry.

Re:Typical.....

[LibertineR]

Compared to TeleNav, the Tom-Tom app is a toy. I dont mind paying what I pay for a very nice, quality application on any platform. Where the Tom-Tom app any good, I would feel differently.

Re:Typical.....

[jasonhamilton]

Their initial pricing of $99 will be dropped if they find that the demand isn't there.

I wouldn't buy it for any price higher than $35. It isn't worth that much, but I think their price point is to compete with their stand alone products. They would not want to cannibalize their own products especially given the userbase of the iPhone.

Re:Typical.....

[Anonymous Coward]

I dunno, because TomTom is a highly recognizable name in the turn-by-turn directions industry with a good PR machine? It's not like this is the first time people paid attention to the recognizable name with the expensive suits instead of the people who were actually first. Not even the millionth time.

Re:Typical.....

[kindbud]

Apple users will pay double for an app with functionality that we've had on our Blackberries for years.

BB fanboi alert!

Blackberry users accept carrier lock-in and pay up to $10/month extra to use that GPS chip.

I keep forgetting that unless I wait years for the privilege of paying double, so that my technical toys come with that Apple logo, I just wont ever be a hipster!

I keep forgetting, Blackberry users are helping make the idea of software by subscription mainstream, while looking down their nose at people who only pay once. Thanks a lot!

Re:Typical.....

[Anonymous Coward]

Though I don't agree with your anger I do agree that paying for this app is insane. I have a sprint phone; they have a service call sprint navigation. It is turn by turn with rerouting and all the stuff I have seen in the few GPS units I have used from rental car companies. It has this "fancy feature" called LiveSearch. You simply say what place or address you are looking for and it finds it. You then click a button to drive there and it starts the navigation. Oh and save your blah blah blah about needing a data connection since 99.9% of the time you have a data connection. All major freeways are covered by cell and most major highways. I have always been able to use it when I needed it.

Re:Typical.....

[Ma8thew]

But, again, because its for the iPhone, the developer can pretty much charge whatever they want. That should make YOU angry.

Actually, one of the problems with applications for the iPhone is that they are TOO cheap. Apple, either intentionally or unintentionally has created an environment in the App Store which has lead to the vast majority of apps being sold at 99 cents. This does not encourage development. The App Store has a lot of problems, but high prices is not one of them.

And your jabs at Apple's users are pretty uninspired. I buy Apple because they value design, in places that users see it, and in places that they don't.

Re:Typical.....

[luddite47]

Some corrections for you: The first iphone had no GPS. (Correct). The second added GPS. And the third added a compass/magnetometer.

And more importantly: TeleNav is a monthly fee. The tomtom app is an app - so you pay once and you get it. Not sure how you end up with 'double.' Looks like it's about 10bucks per month. (http://www.telenav.com/products/tn/pricing.html)
So you'll be paying double after about 1 year of use! (And, in spite of paying more, you won't be that hipster you long to be.)

Re:Typical.....

[MojoStan]

That may or may not be the case in general, however in this particular instance, $99 to buy the App seems significantly cheaper than $9.99/month that the TeleNav app on your blackberry costs. Well they do offer a discount - $99/yr or $249 for a 4 year plan.

I can't believe those blackberry users will pay $10 /month for a GPS App that I can buy on my iPhone for only $100.

It looks like Palm/Sprint have you both beat. Every Sprint plan for the Palm Pre comes with the TeleNav-provided Sprint Navigation bundled for free.

Re:Typical.....

[Sandbags]

iPhone 3G did have GPS...

tomtom accepts voice input for direction and address input. Further, any address in the iPhone, or listed in e-amil (which thanks to search is really easy to find, even across multiple e-mail accounts) can simply be touched to navigate. i can avoid typing addresses on the iPhone easily as well. That's not something you have and I don't... Can you read from an e-mail address and talk to telenav at the exact same time? Does your blackberry do multi-account text body realtime message searching and also search contacts and other data through a single screen?

On your balckberry, you don't get free map updates with any available service i can find. on the iPhone application AND map updates are free for life (for up to 5 devices for buying the app only once).

TeleNav btw is a MONTHLY billed system!!! I see NO option to download the app permanantly at any price on their web site... With the iPhone, i could even cancel my monthly plan, and it would still work... In 10 months, my tomtom app becomes cheaper, in less than 2 years, if becomes half the price of yours!

Re:Typical.....

[Oscar_Wilde]

Oh and save your blah blah blah about needing a data connection...

Aside from that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the show?

Re:Typical.....

[mgblst]

Yeah, I am sure you have even used it. Fuck of MS fanboy, go back to neowin.

Re:Typical.....

[Amarantine]

I have zero problems with the iPhone, I used to own one. What I have a problem with, are typical apple product users.

Quite agreed. Apple users can be a pain in fora like this. However, not as much as Apple bashers, being negative all the time about Apple, Jobs, the iPhone, basically everything white and shiny with an Apple on it, often not realizing their posts are far greater in numbers than those of Apple fans.

They can be recognized by topics such as "overpriced", "[insert name here] is better", "Apple logo", etc, much like yours.

Back ontopic: your first posting blames Apple for alot of things, while it is the 3rd party software maker (TomTom) deciding the price. If you don't like the price, don't buy it. However, if you think Apple is overpriced, then perhaps you're not their target market. Personally, i think Porsches are overpriced too, but i'm not ranting about it in every car magazine. Tell us something we don't know, please.

Oh, and for the record... TT's prices for this product seem on par with their Navigator for Windows Mobile software. Not sure their software is overpriced in this regard.

WinMo

[Anonymous Coward]

They've had a Windows Mobile version of Tom Tom for quite a while now.

Re:!GPS

[Old97]

GPS works by picking up multiple GPS satellites and then calculating an approximate location. It continually samples the incoming signals. The more satellites you can pick up at one time the better. Unfortunately if you are moving or under trees , tunnels or other cover then you will pick up fewer satellites and your accuracy will plummet. By the early 90's GPS navigation on vehicles was supplemented by inertial systems (motion) in order to improve accuracy at every given point. So the system would get a really good fix at one point and then use your motion to approximate the subsequent points you'd pass through until you get another good SAT fix. In the meantime you might intermittently get inferior data from a subset of available satellites which would also contribute their two cents. Cell phone triangulation just adds to this data and improves your accuracy and availability.

The original civilian available GPS was only accurate to about 50 meters - unless you sat still in an open area for awhile. Improvements in software and inertial guidance and now cell towers have dramatically improved accuracy even while in motion.

Pricing

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmm.. I can pay $100 for the iPhone app, or for $59.99 I can get the whole unit. I'll stick with the actual TomTom.

Price Fail

[njfuzzy]

TomTom missed the boat on this app. You can buy a new TomTom device for $99. Why would I pay the same to add software to a device that I already paid for? I would have bought this if it came out at $50 for the software, or $99 for the software plus the hardware accessory kit. At $99 for the software alone, I will pass.

Re:Price Fail

[donstenk]

Convenience!

Since Sat Nav is mostly useful when driving on unknown roads, for example abroad, you save on stuff to carry with you - and it's adaptors. I bought the small Tom Tom One which is really nice and flat (including the window mount) and may buy the iPhone app instead if the Tom Tom window mount is not too big or pricey.

At the end of the day it is all about convenience.

Re:Price Fail

[Sandbags]

Here's the QUICK list (I could go one)
1) device allways in my pocket
2) realtime traffic data and tomtomIQ (not a GPS i can find under $300 does that unless you also supply a compatible bluetooth phone that supports tethering over bluetooth).
3) play music and get voiceover from GPS at the same time through the same device, no more straining to listen to GPS prompts over loud music, or having to forgo iPod connectivity to have GPS pumped through car speakers... (yes, many GPS can also play MP3s, but not 16GB of them easily or cheaply, and they don't sync to iTunes either).
4) works while walking around town, no ciggarette outlet required, or bulky battery operated GPS unit.
5) can easily import addresses from contacts, e-mails, and more without needing to be synced to a computer and managed with a seperate app to manage the addresses.
6) FREE LIFETIME APP AND MAP UPDATES! THIS ALONE IS WORTH THE PRICE FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!!!
7) usable on EVERY iPhone account associated with your iTunes account (up to 5 installs of iTunes, unlimited iPhone devices per iTunes install as far as i can tell (each phone is locked to one of your 5 iTunes installs, but its real easy to copy the apps from PC to PC).
8) doesn't get left in car tempting theives

How is the GPS locator?

[Anonymusing]

GPS on the Google Maps app is kind of sketchy in my neighborhood... often its range is not focused enough. And once in awhile, it thinks I am in the Grand Canyon, and I have to turn off the iPhone and turn it back on for it to fix itself.

It was rather humorous, watching myself drive around the Grand Canyon, because it did actually move in sync with my true GPS movements... just thousands of miles off. (I was in Maine.)

So... will TomTom think I'm somewhere else, when I'm not? Or should I wait for the little car-mounting-GPS-booster?

Complaints

[jbrayton]

There are many complaints here that I don't agree with:

With regard to the price and competing GPS apps: I have a TomTom GPS device that I bought a couple years ago. I paid about $200 and it has been worth every penny. If I didn't already have that device, I would buy the $99 iPhone app in a heartbeat. Yes, there are cheaper GPS apps, and I honestly don't know how most of them compare. I did buy a GPS app last week for $2 or $3. Considering the price I'd say it was good. But it doesn't compare to my TomTom at all; I deleted it. The Google Maps app is also nice, but it doesn't provide turn-by-turn directions while driving. TomTom is doing the smart thing and charging based on the value of the app.

With regard to the size of the app: I can understand the complaints. But (I think) the storage sizes on phones that will run this range between 8GB and 32GB. 1GB is a significant, but not huge, chunk of that. Phone storage sizes will only increase. I don't want to get lost because my phone can't reach the map server; storying 1GB of map data on the phone seems perfectly reasonable.

If you don't want it, don't need it, or can't justify the price, then don't buy it. But I think this will be a worthwhile app for many people.

Re:Complaints

[Sandbags]

how much do you pay every year for you map updates on your real TomTom? Between $8 every 3 months and $44 once anually? iPhone tomtom updates are not only free FOR LIFE, but also changes to the application, improvements, new features, etc are also free. Assuming you'll continue to migrate the app from iPone to iPhone over several years and models, that's like getting a brand new tomtom for free every year!

Also, got more than 1 iPhone in the family? Buy the app once, use it on iPhones synced to up to 5 PCs...

Just use OpenStreetMap instead

[firefishy]

OpenStreetMap is the Open Source data provider to a number of free/cheap iPhone applications. http://www.roadee.net/ being one of the more popular iPhone routing apps. OpenStreetMap.org is the wikipedia of maps.

Re:Just use OpenStreetMap instead

[nroets]

roadee, offmaps and a few does other use raster maps and an online routing server and do not fully utilize the capabilities of the iPhone.

I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of the new xgps, that will certainly push the envelope with vector maps.

Re:!GPS

[gnasher719]

Cell phone triangulation just adds to this data and improves your accuracy and availability.

That's not what it does.

Every satellite transmits at exactly 1 MHz, but you receive it at a frequency that depends on your exact position, the exact time and the exact position of the satellite due to the doppler effect. When you turn the GPS on, it doesn't have a clue where it is because it doesn't receive any satellites, so the first thing it has to do is to scan the whole frequency band until it finds some satellites. That takes time.

With cell phone triangulation, the GPS knows a rough position and time very very quickly. With that rough position it can calculate which satellites are roughly where, and on which frequency they should be received. So it doesn't scan the whole frequency band, but only the frequencies where the satellites actually are. Therefore, the assisted GPS finds its satellites much quicker. Once it has the satellites, cell phone data is completely irrelevant because it is so much less accurate.

Re:!GPS

[SparkEE]

Triangulation also reduces the time-to-first-fix by reducing the search space the GPS chip has to run correlations in, and by usually by sending up-to-date ephemeral data, which takes 15 minutes to download from the satellites.

Re:!GPS

[Anonymous Coward]

Only the first generation iPhone uses ONLY cell towers to figure out its position!

FTFY

Re:!GPS

[Anonymous Coward]

GPS is pretty much an outdoors-only technology. The signal does not penetrate into most buildings due to the frequency band being used. As such, the iPhone uses cell tower triangulation and WiFi network triangulation (using skyhookwireless.com) as well as GPS. If you take a look at Maps, you'll see that it often finds your location with a really huge circle around it to indicate that the fix is extremely imprecise, which is an indication that it's using cell tower triangulation. It will then snap in to a much smaller circle as the WiFi/GPS locators kick in.

Re:!GPS

[queazocotal]

The reason for GPSs getting lots better in the 90s was _not_ improvements in GPSs.
It was the removing of 'Selective Availability' - which was an intentional up-to-300m (usually 100mish) random bias applied to the GPS signal.

In 2000 this was turned off.

Also - hardware improved so it could track multiple satellites at once - compared to one of the earliest units.

Software more expensive than hardware?

[kawabago]

This application is more expensive than just buying a dedicated gps device that will do a better job. I hope no one will buy this application and support it's ridiculous price.

Re:Software more expensive than hardware?

[Sandbags]

a $99 GPS supporting the full tomtom suite INCLUDING IQ and real time traffic? Show me one.... i dare you.

Not to mention the FREE lifetime application AND map updates. Just 2 years and 3 months and the app pays for itself on a single iPhone by not having to download updates. It;s like buying a TomTom once and getting a free one every year for the rest of your life so long as Apple keeps making iPhones for you to own.

next, play iPod music and use the GPS at the same time through the car stereo. no more straining to hear the prompts over loud music, nor instead having to use the poorly integrated GPS MP3 player controll s(and max 2-4GB SD card storage and expense of those cards, and complexity of syncing music to them).

next, it;s in your pocket all the time... Coworker get lost downtown trying to find a place for lunch, whip it out.

Oh yea, 3 iPhones in my family are compatible with it. That means I pay $99 one time and get 3 TomToms...

Re:!GPS

[Old97]

Not exactly. There were substantial improvements in accuracy obtained in the 1990's - before SA was turned off. That was primarily due to improvements in software. Incorporating motion detection improve location accuracy in moving vehicles. I was working on such systems (for utilities) in those days. We also used laser range finders so we could position ourselves in a sunny intersection, wait until our location was stabilized and then shoot a number of targets (e.g. poles) in line of sight and record their locations. We had sub-meter accuracy doing this.

Re:!GPS

[Old97]

I believe that the terms accuracy and availability are correctly applied here. How long does a cell phone user or car sit in one spot waiting for a GPS reading to stabilize? They don't. The faster they can get to a reasonably accurate reading then the more accurate and reliable their subsequent position readings will be as they are in motion. Also, if you write your software correctly, you can in fact incorporate cell phone triangulation in addition to you GPS samples and what offsets your motion detection gives you.

No need

[Benanov]

Already have one of those, includes laughing-at-you-because-you-asked-for-help upgrade.

Why $60

[AnAdventurer]

Is TomTom really that much better then the built in Google "map" directions?

I use a lot of GPS devices, but never a TomTom. I can't imaging spending $60 for any app on my iPhone, $9.99 is about as high as I will go.

Both my Vista HCX and iPhone with the built in map app will do directions. Did I already say $60 is a lot to spend on an app if the only real diffrence is it talks to you

Oh, don't get me wrong, you can't put a price on safety!

Re:Why $60

[tgibbs]

Yes. Google maps won't give you voice directions so you don't have to constantly look away from the road while driving. And it won't automatically work out a new route if you make a mistake.

Voice Synthesis on 3GS

[amasiancrasian]

TomTom,

Please take advantage of using voice synthesis functions in the 3GS so we can take advantage of the excellent voice developed by Apple. In order to use these functions, several websites have discovered how to access this part of the API:

NSObject *v = [[NSClassFromString(@"VSSpeechSynthesizer") alloc] init]; [v startSpeakingString:@"All your base are belong to us"]; [v release];

Source: High Caffeine Content 5-Jul-2009

The current voice just won't do. Need a voice synthesizer to help with driving. The Apple included one is much better.

Greed

[DaFallus]

I have an older Tom Tom One and an iPhone 3G. For me, this is almost the perfect combination except that Apple's paranoia regarding Bluetooth prevents me from connecting my Tom Tom to the iPhone to retrieve traffic data. Even after the big iPhone 3.0 update, which is supposed to allow more access to the phone through Bluetooth, there is still no word on this being addressed. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if this is on purpose so as to motivate users to buy the Tom Tom app instead of using the GPS they already have. Thanks, but no thanks.

Re:!GPS

[Sandbags]

Yes, the 3G models use BOTH sattelite GPS and aGPS signals. GPS takes some time to coordinate your location. in the interum, the aGPS location quickly narrows your location to a few city blocks, allowing the initially collected GPS data from the first few sattelites it colects data from to provide a reasonable accuracy, followed by refinements as you get signals verified from the 6th, 7th, 8th, birds...

You'll notice you get reasonable location awareness in about 3-4 seconds, and after 15 seconds or so, it finally zooms in in your exact location and direction of travel.

once the full GPS signals are acquired, aGPS and the use of the cell transmitter is no longer required (unless you pass out of GPS line of sight, but still have cell coverage in which case aGPS resumes attempting to maintain your location and travel direction).

this is /.

[recharged95]

please refer further comments to gizmodo.com (yeah, I don't even need to post the link).



This is slashdot remember, not a discussion forums about an app on a phone that likely 1/3 of the users here have.

So disappointing

[SirAnodos]

This is so disappointing to me. I waited forever for TomTom to come out with their GPS app, but now there is no way they will get my business. I was willing to pay a little extra for guaranteed quality, but not that much. As it is, I will now be researching the competition. No matter how convincing anyone's arguments in defense of this price, I simply cannot afford it, end of story. The most I am able to shell out for the app AND the kit is $75. The most I would have been willing to shell out for the app alone is $40.
I've had to cutback recently due to a corporate wide pay cut, and my iPhone service itself survived only because I dropped my landline instead. Now they want me to pay as much for the freakin' app alone as I did for the GPS in my wife's car?!? Ain't gonna happen.

Re:So disappointing

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of the cost of these kinds of apps is in the map data. Garmin sells maps by themselves for $100.

I don't have an iPhone but...

[erroneus]

I was contemplating this app and the issue where an incoming call will stop the GPS Nav app. Uhm. That's probably a good thing, but the opposite should response should be an option -- not accept incoming calls and keep the app running. When you are driving and using a GPS nav app on your iPhone, I would HOPE that the priority activity would be driving and not answering the phone.

I'm not going to get holier than anyone else and say that I don't talk and drive. I do. I have even used my google maps while driving. I'm not proud of it but I know it's the wrong thing to be doing and if my GPS drive app disabled incoming phone calls, I'd probably leave that feature enabled because it would actually be for the best.

This is new/news?

[nloop]

Android has AndNav, TeleNav, and CoPilot for turn by turn navigation. I have an Android phone not an iPhone, but based on the fact that the apple app store has 10x the content the android market does, there were probably already some apps doing this. Am I wrong? My CoPilot plug: $35 and it has the same functionality (or so it seems to me, once again, no iPhone).

Pounds in Australia

[initials]

Holy Crap! Australia is using Pounds as currency now. Hey Sathington Willoughby, I bet you 2 bob on the frisky mare.

shameless plug for free stuff

[Anonymous Coward]

* Linux/Mac OSX:: GpsDrive
* Windows:: gpsVP

Re:!GPS

[queazocotal]

That's not motion detection - if you're stationary.
Also - before SA was turned off - if you were using standard GPSs, in order to get a average position within a meter, you needed to average for over a week.
Unless you were - as you probably were - doing differential GPSs - which was using a seperate GPS at a known base-station to transmit errors due to selective availability, and correct the nearby surveying GPS.

Re:!GPS

[Old97]

I didn't say that motion detection was used when stationary. Read it again.

"If you were using standard GPSs"? What do you mean? We were using Trimble GPS chip sets in ruggadized PCs with an external GPS antenna. We had 6 receivers. It didn't take a week because we used some clever software along with additional data such as digital maps. If you have a digital map and you can either position yourself on a known location or point to one with a range finder, you can get a pretty good coordinate. Add a GPS that has sat on or within range of a well known location like an intersection for 30 minutes and you would have very good accuracy. When in motion in a vehicle driving on a road marked on your digital map you can ignore locations that don't fall on the road. Combine that with motion sensors and a known starting point and again, you can also get pretty good data.

Math and software are pretty powerful tools.

Can we complain about apple prices?

[Anonymous Coward]

The difference between a 16g and 32g iPhone is 5x the price of 16g flash.

If apple was gutsy, they would offer people build to order 64gig to 256gig iPhones for those 1m + rich yuppies!

Then again, apple should have microSD slot or two, but we know apple loves the 5x profit margins on above min sized iphones/ipods.