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Bad Driving May Have Genetic Basis
Serenissima writes "Bad drivers may in part have their genes to blame, suggests a new study by UC Irvine neuroscientists. People with a particular gene variant performed more than 20 percent worse on a driving test than people without it — and a follow-up test a few days later yielded similar results. About 30 percent of Americans have the variant. 'These people make more errors from the get-go, and they forget more of what they learned after time away,' said Dr. Steven Cramer, neurology associate professor and senior author of the study published recently in the journal Cerebral Cortex."
She gets it from her mother.
"People with a particular gene variant performed more than 20 percent worse on a driving test" You mean the double-X chromosome?
Yeah, but how do you explain all the bad drivers in New Jersey?
Is the "particular gene" a second X chromosome?
I kid, I kid!
Some of the best drivers I know are the ones who can't obey speed limits, make illegal turns, and ultimately are deemed as "bad" drivers. However these same folks maintain superior control of their vehicles and never get into accidents unless they are caused by another driver's lack of control.
So, perhaps this gene is more of a "disrespect for authority" gene?
Sometimes the best solution is to stop wasting time looking for an easy solution.
I can safely say I can drive perfectly fine- after I pass 60mph.
Ethan Hawke really wants to be a "driver"...
Wouldn't surprise me if this does turn out to be true and not just a statistical anomaly then insurance companies will probably ask for a genetic test if they can get away with it and raise the premium if you have this genetic marker.
I could see this as true, but not for the obvious reasons. Likely, people with this "particular gene" come from the same indirect family tree. This family can have learned behavior they pass on to their offspring of "not paying attention".
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
We know that other tasks involving acquired skills are influenced by natural ability. Intelligence is partly inherited, athletic ability is partly inherited, etc. It should come as no surprise that a task requiring some cognitive skill (paying attention to the right things) and physical skill (good steering, etc) is also influenced by genetics.
Starting off with a poor hand genetically just means you have to work harder. Some athletes have to work harder than others to get peak performance. Some students have to work harder than others to ace their exams. And some drivers need to work harder than others to drive well.
Much like any activity, this "deficiency" can be curbed through training/practice.
Until we're able to manipulate genes in humans, as opposed to just lab rats, all this "XYZ has been linked to gene ABC" is pretty irrelevant.
If "genetic defect" means having a cell phone grown onto your ear at birth, then yes, I absolutely agree.
Conservative, mod down for violating
Who would have thought that the Simpson Gene would be so wide spread.
Obviously driving a car, truck, golf cart, etc. requires fine and gross motor skills. So if this gene is present does it affect only driving skills or other areas where fine and gross motor skills come into play? I'd like to see, for instance, if the 30% or so of people with this gene can't play video games on modern systems because they forget what the buttons do or just can't get the jumps, dives, runs, etc. down. It might also be interesting to see if neurosurgeons, sculptors, or sports players have this gene or not.
"This food is problematic."
Yeah, I went there.
So, is it wrong to assume that this variant also makes a person inept at a variety of tasks? Working, shopping, cleaning, cooking--pretty much anything that presents more than a minuscule challenge to the brain?
Rooting for the yankees is like rooting for herpes.
Did any one catch the sample size?
"The driving test was taken by 29 people - 22 without the gene variant and seven with it."
Ummm... Sounds like interesting research, but until your sample size increases a bit, you don't got nothing.
Guess that means everyone in New Jersey is genetically deficient then because no one from that state would pass a drivers test!
A study found people with Rh-neg blood and toxoplasmosis had more accidents. Here's more info:
http://theshermanfoundation.blogspot.com/2009/06/toxoplasma-parasite-may-cause-humans-to.html
We call it the "X" chromosome.
So... that's everyone, then. Based on my observations, I wouldn't argue with that.
I live in an area with an astonishing number of epically bad drivers. I figured the epically bad drivers were (unfortunately) surviving long enough to have children, who themselves grew up to be epically bad drivers. A genetic component to epically bad driving doesn't surprise me in the least.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Frickin' Mormons on the I-15 goin' to Zion! (and not the park, either)
And how would that be "screwing" you? Seems to me that it would be considering a factor that has a correlation, if not an effect, upon an outcome. That's pretty much the basis of actuarial science.
"Make it ten--I am only a poor corrupt official."
--Captain Louis Renault (Claude Rains), Casablanca
Good thing there's no cultural correlation with genetic similarities, eh?
There are huge cultural differences in how people drive. In Italy, people seem to have a passing regard for things like lane markings, etc., when on the interstate. I loved watching drivers just meandering from one lane to another, or just driving stradding two lanes at once. Very different from how, say, people tend to drive in Germany. But if you were to do a genetic similarities analysis on these different populations, you'd probably get all sorts of false positives.
Honestly, genetic correlation tests like these are the modern day equivalent of phrenology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_determination_system to type a bit more for the /. filter ...
Man, and I thought the main cause for concern with the upcoming revolution in genetic testing was losing my health insurance.
Yup its genetic no doubt ...
Two X cromossomes makes you a BAD driver, one X and Y makes you a good one !
ZOT!
...if we could just start making a list of all the people who *didn't* come here to make the XX/XY joke.
Are they saying that being a woman is genetic? I am truly chocked, choked I tell you!
Possibly, but personally I think it must the same gene that makes people want Toyota Corollas.
No, it's a recessive trait.
They might not get into accidents but their driving might cause other drivers to get into them by trying to avoid these idiots. On a related issue, a friend was always getting hit from behind. When someone was tailgating him, he would hit the brakes, HARD! After several tail end accidents, his insurance company came down on him for causing the accident even though legally he wasn't liable. Needless to say, he stopped that nonsense.
roads aren't a career. They aren't a place where some should excel at the expense of others. Since you are sharing the road with others, if your behavior isn't predictable then it is bad behavior. Say for example a champion race-car driver decided that, to prove how great a driver he was, he would drive on the wrong side of a freeway. Would that not be "bad driving?" I don't care how good your skill at steering and breaking might be, driving is a social contract to act within an established set of norms. A surgeon can have extreme skill at controlling how deeply they cut, and otherwise have perfect hand-eye coordination, but if that perfection is applied to cutting out part of your liver when you're supposed to be having a brain tumor removed, then completely independent of any amount of hand-eye coordination and grace - that person is a bad surgeon.
Same as a driver. If you aren't driving in a way that is predictable, and aren't driving the way you should be, then you are a bad driver. I don't care if you can do a controlled 360 on the road in front of your house - if you actually do it, then you are a bad driver. period.
We used to just call it "stupid."
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
Watch Gattaca and get back with us. I would argue that a responsible society would provide extra help to such people, rather than punishing them for something that they have no control over.
I kid, I kid!
Who are you hiding from? It's not like any women are going to be reading your post.
> Bad drivers may in part have their genes to blame
I started thinking about poorly designed device drivers written by genetically-damaged programmers. Time to shut down the PC and go home...
The chances of this being anything more than a simple correlation are extremely unlikely, unless this gene has a role in vision or concentration that affects many other things, like ability to read, etc. In this case the gene responsible is supposedly BDNF, which has a role in memory. There are approximately 30,000 known coding genes in the human genome. If you keep running comparisons on a bunch of them, then you're going to find a correlation eventually. This is why you're supposed to do a "Bonferroni correction". For example, if they checked out 500 genes looking for a correlation with driving ability, then the P-value they're supposed to accept as "significant" should be 0.05/500 = 0.0001 (although there are other ways of doing the correction as well). The article doesn't say how many genes they actually tested or if they altered their level of significance accordingly. Bottom line - the genome is a big place, and you may well find the correlation you're looking for if you just keep testing enough genes.
While racing at top speed and taking the road as a slolem course weaving through traffic, raging and cursing everybody else on the freeway!
I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
You don't *have* to drive. And even if a job within public transport pays less, and a home close to a supermarket and bus line costs more, no insurance/gas/car payments/stress is a huge benefit. Higher insurance costs for people who shouldn't drive will help more people see this...
For the record, I do not own a car, and pulled off the above with relative ease... the real problem is, no one even *tries*.
Officer, it was not my bad driving, but my genes.
If you write me a ticket, I will sue under the Americans With Disabilities Act.
I would argue that a responsible society would provide extra help to such people, rather than punishing them for something that they have no control over.
OK, I'd be willing to chip in to get them a bus pass.
My wife is a self proclaimed bad driver, but she always says it's not her fault and is genetic. At first I thought she was kidding, but it's true : her mom, her dad, her brother, many of her cousins -- a whole family of bad drivers.
Watch Gattaca and get back with us. I would argue that a responsible society would provide extra help to such people, rather than punishing them for something that they have no control over.
One could argue that being male or female is a result of genetics (XX vs. XY chromosomes), and it is perfectly acceptable that car insurance companies charge more for male drivers than female because statistically they are in more accidents. How is this any different?
If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
Oh, no! No if my uncle gets in a car accident, I get my rates upped by my insurance. Thanks a lot, UC Irvine!
They should just take this into account on the driving test. You don't need a genetic screen. Just make the test (road or written or otherwise) take this into account. That way, people who shouldn't be on the road won't be, and the people who are on the road won't suffer because of it.
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
Watch Gattaca and get back with us.
Of course. I, too, base all my moral decisions on what Hollywood moviemakers imply I should think.
is common practice everywhere, especially on residential streets that have cars parked on both sides, as well as people entering and exiting those cars, kids playing on both sides of the road, and no center divider or double yellow line. I do agree with the point DGatwood made about population density affecting driver safety, probably the most salient fact presented, far more relevant than a possible genetic connection.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
a-hem?
Signed,
A lady who (touch wood!) has never had an accident
10 FILL MUG WITH COFFEE
20 DRINK COFFEE
30 GOTO 10
...that this gene just affects driving? Because making errors, forgetting things frequently... that sounds like some of the people I work with. Aren't we really just isolating the "stupid" gene at this point?
10 FILL MUG WITH COFFEE
20 DRINK COFFEE
30 GOTO 10
The speed limits, turn restrictions, signage, whatever is all there for a reason. It's to create a safe and predictable driving environment for everyone
Except in places where they're made so that it's easier to make money off of speeding tickets, etc. No, this isn't the case always, but there have been plenty of cases where limits are *lowered* for no apparent reason (and suddenly that stretch is radar-heaven), or where stop-lights have had the yellow-red interval lowered to a point where it's less safe, or numerous other foolish reasons.
As a motorist it's not my place to decide whether a law/sign/etc is in place for the right or wrong reason, but it's also wrong to ignore the fact that this happens.
...and my friends, family, and I all agree that Asians (East Asians, SE Asians, S Asians) are all collectively pretty terrible. I've heard Middle Eastern guys are not too much better either.
Whether this is genetic is debatable, however. Many immigrants and their first/second-generation kids typically come from highly urban areas with very cheap and convenient mass transit, which decreases the number of car drivers (and hence, driving experience) in this demographic.
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
How do you blind a [ethnic group]? Put a windshield in front of him/her.
"The more you drive, the less intelligent you are."
Now you're telling me there is a genetic basis for driving skill itself? I'm shocked.
I was in the car once with my girlfriend (driving) and we got stuck behind a slow driver, swerving all over the place. In our frustration we engaged in some stereotyping. "Probably old" I said. "And asian, she replied". When we were finally able to get around this person, I look over. "Sure enough, an old asian lady." My GF says "Yep, that's two strikes against her" At which point I say "No, that's three."
I was glad she was driving and had only one hand to hit me with.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
From the article: "The gene variant isn't always bad, though. Studies have found that people with it maintain their usual mental sharpness longer than those without it when neurodegenerative diseases such as Parkinson's, Huntington's and multiple sclerosis are present."
My take: "usual mental sharpness" - a dull knife is still dull after you run it over concrete. Maybe the people with the gene variant just aren't as "sharp" to begin with, which is why they appear not to change for a longer period of time.
Alright so here's my contribution to the whole driving/traffic laws discussion - I was driving home from work during rush hour one day and coming up to an automated toll plaza (the booth accepted either exact change or EZPass, here's a link for those who don't know what EZPass is - http://www.ezpass.com/). So this car in front of me decided to go through the clearly marked EZPass only lane of the toll booth, only, she didn't have an EZPass. So, she stopped her car at the booth. And I stopped behind her, and traffic started piling up behind me rather quickly since it was rush hour and she was blocking the only EZPass lane at the toll plaza. I gave her 2 minutes to figure out what she should do, and then proceeded to get out of my car and walk up to hers. I asked her what the (expletive) she thought she was doing there. She told me she was driving a rental car and forgot she didn't have EZPass. So I replied, "What the (expletive) do you think is going to happen here? This is an automated plaza, no human being works here, and no one is going to magically show up and fix this. There's at least half a mile of cars backed up here because you've stopped. Just continue to drive through and you'll get a ticket in the mail, the camera (I pointed out the security camera that was aimed at her license plate) already took a picture of your plate because you have no EZPass, so the damage is done. You can't do anything about it now."
Moral: If you have no common sense, do not operate a motor vehicle. You will definitely injure, kill, or piss people off. Do everyone a favor and use mass transit, or just shop on the Internet.
My father always said, (and long before this study too,) that it is either an absence of y-chromosomes, or an overabundance of x-chromosomes, or possibly a combination of the two.
Just here to offer the wood for you to touch.
Living in Seattle, we apply the following formula with a 75%+ success rate:
if driver is in front, in the left lane and slow:
if car is a Nissan:
driver is probably from India
elif car is any other Japanese make:
driver is probably East Asian
elif car is large American-made SUV:
driver is probably from Eastern Washington (judging by dealer plate frames)
elif a box of Kleenex and furry stuffed animals is visible:
driver is probably East Asian female, or highly emasculated Asian male.
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
When I lived in Costa Mesa, the nickname going around for UCI was the "University of Chinese Immigrants". All of my vietnamese friends called it that (and all of them eventually wound up attending UCI).
This study struck me as somewhat appropriate.
Considering accidents are probably proportional to traffic density, then comparing Jersey to the other states on the list, the drivers are superb. What do you think the population density is in those others states?
Interesting note - having lived in many of the states on the eastern seaboard, and now California (don't get me started how BAD the drivers are here), New Jersey drivers (and NYC drivers) appear to me to very good. New Jersey also has some of the highest insurance premiums as well.
Would be nice to look at safety vs insurance costs - i.e. it costs too much to get into an accident, so people drive more safely.
..........FULL STOP.
That would explain midwest drivers, get out of the fast lane, slowass!!
You could make an argument that all human behavior can be traced to genetics. In fact my father is typing this same reply at another forum over at AARP.COM. He can't spell either.
year 2600 dictionary: Capitalism --- [kap-i-tl-iz-uhm] -noun. An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately owned by Walmart.
"That loud thump has never turned out to be a pedestrian before"
the people setting the rules think from the point of view of someone with the other gene setting.
I.e. if the 20% set the rules, then would the 80% be able to comply or would most of them make errors?
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
I'd love to see some research into why asians insist on reversing into every park (not just parellel ones), and why even with all that practice are they unable to do it without making 100 failed attempts first
There is no need. The people who drive poorly already pay more for their insurance because of reality. In other words, of the people who pay higher rates, a subset of them are likely those who have the gene variant. Genetic testing is not required. They are already covered by existing rates.
Someof the WORST driver I know are driver which do exactly the same as above, and THINK they can maintain control of their vehicle in all circumstance except when the OTHER are responsible. I think there is definitively a gene for overestimating one own attitude. There has been recently an article on that recently, where the worst people were overestimating their aptitude more than the one really apt.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
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visit randi.org
not true without pics.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I wonder if people without this genetic variant are quicker learners in general. Or if the quick learning is limited to spatial and motor skills. I'd like to see them study other activities, like playing video games of other types, learning some non-physical skill, rock climbing, playing basketball, riding a bike, etc. It would be interesting to see where correlations pop up.
Well everybody thinks they are a great driver. Everybody believes they could make it on the racecar circuit, if only they had the chance or inclination. "I can drive really really fast, and take corners really well! When I crash it's the fault of those stupid slow drivers who can't handle their cars!"...
Maybe snowfall has a positive effect? I drove in snow a lot as a youngster, even when I only had a learner's permit. While there's other things like traffic density to consider, if you can drive in snow then driving in good conditions is a picnic.
It's a good explanation of why Finns are disproportionally represented in motorsport. Certainly better than assuming that having k as a third of the letters in your name makes you good at driving.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I heard the government is going to start tracking this gene by placing it on our drivers licenses.
This gene will be marked with an F, while those without a gene will get an M on their license instead.
there are lots of asians at uci
This is almost like a test case for Darwinian evolution: We have a gene that has a bad effect on it's carriers, and a mechanism ("horrid accident") that potentially removes that gene from the gene pool. So the over time the gene should disappear and everybody will be better drivers. The old joke about every American being an above-average driver will actually be reality.
Yes its true, its called being Asian.
Seriously, do you have any stats to back up your claims that Asians are bad drivers?
Only men with beards; high voices and throwing stones.
Interesting to look at the HapMap. You should feel very safe if your driver is of sub saharan African descent. They don't seem to have the minor allele at all http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/projects/SNP/snp_ref.cgi?rs=6265#Diversity . Of course one allele rarely controls the whole show.
rnadom txet for a sngrutaie
Say it with me folks: Correlation does not equal causality.
Researchers should also investigate which gene variant prevents most American professional drivers to correctly turn right at high speed. That ultimately led to the creation of oval tracks and gave a competitive advantage to foreign drivers which find it easy to go to the USA and win races and titles.
Disclaimer: that was intended to be both fun and informative ;-)
It's a well known thing that people with two X chromosomes are very bad drivers, they are prone to panic attacks in any adverse conditions, and have no sense of direction or consideration for other drivers. They also can't read maps.
If we can get these potential killers off the roads and perhaps isolate the boy-racer gene and get them off the roads too it will save many, many, lives.
We call it the "X" chromosome.
So... that's everyone, then. Based on my observations, I wouldn't argue with that.
Indeed. But half the population are twice as bad.
Well that's the explanation for Finns who drive Audis, Volvos and BMWs .... aparently the same gene causes a small penile development, delusions of granedur (hey, I can drive like Kimi Raikkonen) and a severe lack of self confidence...
Seriously, it does.
What do they do to Dutch people who fail the driving test at least three times in a row? -- They force them to put yellow licence plates onto their cars!
These results demand another study! The question to be answered is this: Why is there such an overabundance of these genetically-hampered drivers in the Washington, DC area?
Sure, but if you actually USE your eyes every time some prick behaves in an extraordinarily dangerous way on the road you'll wonder where your researchers got their statistics.
And to think I used up my mod points in the discussion about mere light particles!
A relation does not a correlation make. And less so does a correlation make a causation. They are drawing the conclusion that the gene is associated with bad driving for... I don't know why, or what logic. Probably little to none. I couldn't tell without looking at the study, but their sample size probably is too small to even be statistically significant. And even if it was, they can't provide an explanation as to *why* this gene could have the effect of making you a bad driver, and *what causes it*. And there are *so* many factors that can affect the test scores than just the gene. The researchers cannot possibly have justification for drawing a causal relationship between said gene and bad driving. This isn't any more scientific than eugenics.
Just here to offer the wood for you to touch.
And now you've reduced the number of female slashdot readers back to zero.
Abaddon: An Xbox 360 Indie game
What you want to give them HANDOUTS? That's SOCIALISM!
[/republican]
You missed the most important part, if it has a 'PROUD WASHINGTONION NATIVE' bumper sticker on it, they are guaranteed to merge on the freeway at 45mph, and never get above 50mph in the fast lane.