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Google Launches Public DNS Resolver

AdmiralXyz writes "Google has announced the launch of their free DNS resolution service, called Google Public DNS. According to their blog post, Google Public DNS uses continuous record prefetching to avoid cache misses — hopefully making the service faster — and implements a variety of techniques to block spoofing attempts. They also say that (unlike an increasing number of ISPs), Google Public DNS behaves exactly according to the DNS standard, and will not redirect you to advertising in the event of a failed lookup. Very cool, but of course there are questions about Google's true motivations behind knowing every site you visit."

540 comments

  1. I guess it is good news... by ls671 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    > They also say that (unlike an increasing number of ISPs), Google Public DNS behaves exactly according to the DNS standard.

    Congratulations, this would then be the first free service that I know of which doesn't do redirect ! ;-)

    I setup my own DNS but I guess it is a little overkill for the common every day user. Setting your own DNS means you have to go to the network (e.g. internet) less often because your locally hosted DNS caches the already visited sites for a TTL period of time. This is especially true if you have several computers and that they tend to visit the same sites.

    Let me add that if your ISP or firewall intercepts requests to port 53, you will still be stuck with it ;-(

    --
    Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    1. Re:I guess it is good news... by sopssa · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Congratulations, this would then be the first free service that I know of which doesn't do redirect ! ;-)

      I guess they're using that as a selling point and to come of "nicer". If they're just after datamining the DNS requests, this service can happily run on negative income, because it improves Google's other things and provides them even more data.

      Google is datamining everywhere and everything already.

    2. Re:I guess it is good news... by Jophish · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Oh boo hoo. I know I am going to get modded down for this, but: I don't mind Google knowing this, or knowing what sites I visit, if it means that they can deliver more relevant ads to me, cater more to my needs. This is a good think, kudos too Google, Inventing a business model that makes everybody happy.

    3. Re:I guess it is good news... by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      Google's service actually preemptively caches records ahead of their TTL expiring, so while you'll have a bit more traffic versus running your own resolver, I think things will be faster for you because you'll never have a cache miss (and therefore, the wait of the resolver going to the auth dns server for the answer) with Google's Public DNS service.

    4. Re:I guess it is good news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Almost everyone has this setup by default. Most cable/dsl modems do some dns caching and present themselves as the dns server in dhcp. Some home firewall/routers do this too.

    5. Re:I guess it is good news... by ahecht · · Score: 4, Informative

      4.2.2.2 and their ilk are free and non-redirecting. You can use 4.2.2.1 4.2.2.2 4.2.2.3 4.2.2.4 4.2.2.5 or 4.2.2.6

      They are run by L-3 and sitting on major backbones, and the ip addresses are pooled, so that you will likely get a server that is geographically near you when you use one of those addresses.

    6. Re:I guess it is good news... by ImYourVirus · · Score: 1

      I'd be more impressed if they blocked out ads entirely. Oh and spam while you're at it.

      --
      Why is common sense called that if it's not common?
    7. Re:I guess it is good news... by ChikMag777 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'd be more impressed if they blocked out ads entirely.

      You do know how Google makes their money, right?

    8. Re:I guess it is good news... by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      4.2.2.2 and their ilk are free and non-redirecting

      Yes, but who is gtei.net?

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    9. Re:I guess it is good news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congratulations, this would then be the first free service that I know of which doesn't do redirect !

      Actually, if you have a static ip or a rarely changing ip, you can use OpenDNS. Just create a free account, register the ip, and turn off the redirects. I do that at my home DSL connection.

    10. Re:I guess it is good news... by afidel · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually L3 is turning off public access to those resolvers and has been for a while, sometimes you will not get any response at other times they just degrade response times.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    11. Re:I guess it is good news... by sexconker · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      So Google fanboism has gotten to the point where people are HAPPY about getting more targetted ads?

    12. Re:I guess it is good news... by node+3 · · Score: 5, Funny

      This is a good think

      It's also double plus ironic.

    13. Re:I guess it is good news... by sexconker · · Score: 4, Funny

      Of course you can still have cache misses.

      You: Gimme goat.se
      Google: That's not in my cache, hold on.

      Google: Hey auth DNS gimme goat.se
      Auth: K, here.

      Google: Hey you, here.
      You: K.

      Your mom: Gimme goat.se:
      Google: Yeah, I have that, here.
      Your mom: K.

      Your dad: I NEED the goat.se !
      Google: Yeah I have that, but I need to recache it. Here's what I already have, it's probably still good.

      Google: Hey auth DNS gimme goat.se
      Auth: K, here.

      Your dad: WTF? Where's the gaping anus?!
      Google: Yeah, looks like the one I gave you before was wrong. No worries, this one is fresh.
      Your dad: Sweet mother of corn holes.

      Updating your cache early doesn't solve anything. You get less of a chance of misses only because you've checked more frequently. This comes at a performance cost on Google's end. Any DNS provider can cache anything for however long they want and return whatever result they think is valid.

      The obvious thing to do is return your most recent authoritative result for cached domains or get one if it's not a cached domain. Choosing to empty out your cache after something has expired vs. refreshing it from auth is a performance decision. As is choosing whether or not to dump something when updating, or keep it around in case you get requests for it while you're updating. As is the overall frequency with which you update your cache.

      No magic, brilliance, or good will on Google's part here - just horsepower and the willingness to operate at a financial loss in order to mine more data.

    14. Re:I guess it is good news... by ceeam · · Score: 2, Informative

      > this would then be the first free service that I know of which doesn't do redirect

      Well, there are *tons* of them. And fast. Download this program (if you're on Windows), run it, and see which are good for you. Redirecting and "strict" are marked with different colors.

      http://www.grc.com/dns/benchmark.htm

    15. Re:I guess it is good news... by prockcore · · Score: 1

      People have always been happy about getting more targetted ads. I bet your mom buys the sunday paper just because there are tons of coupons for her local stores.

    16. Re:I guess it is good news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      try 4.2.2.1

    17. Re:I guess it is good news... by digitalunity · · Score: 1

      Those aren't personally targeted ads, they're just matched well to the demographic and geographic in which they're placed.

      A targeted newspaper ad would be akin to an e-paper ad in the newspaper that when opened by your mother says "Hi Susan, I see you went to Holiday yesterday for gas. Here's a coupon for 5 cents off per gallon on your next fill-up at Chevron!".

      Most people find personally targeted ads online harmless but I guarantee you if they opened up their newspaper and found it was written just for them, knew their name, their interests and knew what they had been doing online, they would find that creepy and offensive.

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    18. Re:I guess it is good news... by pwfffff · · Score: 1

      To quote Cleveland: "They're going shopping FOR YOU!!!"

      It's a service!

    19. Re:I guess it is good news... by Rich0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yup, I run my own DNS - in part because I also want to have local hostnames and a bit more control over dhcp/etc.

      It also is nice to be able to blackhole any domain I like and kill 80% of the ads and intrusive cookies out there. When I'm browsing on wi-fi from the cellphone I'm amused to see all the banner ads go away desipte it not having an ad blocker.

    20. Re:I guess it is good news... by shentino · · Score: 1

      Considering that advertising is the lifeblood of internet commerce, targeted ads that I might actually want to look at are better than random spammy popups.

    21. Re:I guess it is good news... by Metasquares · · Score: 1

      The way I see it, I'm going to be shown ads either way, so they may as well be relevant to my interests. That said, I don't see any particularly compelling reason to switch to Google's DNS, and beyond knowing every DNS lookup that users make, I can't see any particularly compelling reason why Google rolled this out in the first place. Fewer cache misses are nice, but that isn't really game-changing.

    22. Re:I guess it is good news... by Huh? · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Actually L3 is turning off public access to those resolvers and has been for a while

      Link(s) to corroborate?

    23. Re:I guess it is good news... by Knara · · Score: 2, Informative

      Those aren't personally targeted ads, they're just matched well to the demographic and geographic in which they're placed.

      They may not be individually targeted, but they *are* targeted.

    24. Re:I guess it is good news... by Knara · · Score: 1

      I've actually just recently moved away from those resolvers, because I've been having some fairly frequent problems with resolution times/success that went away when I switched over to OpenDNS for that purpose.

      I know the plural of anecdote isn't data, but there you are.

    25. Re:I guess it is good news... by brigc · · Score: 1

      Always nice to see a contribution from Steve Gibson... he's provided a lot of nice little utilities over the years.

      --
      -- When I grow up I'd like to be a systems defenestrator.
    26. Re:I guess it is good news... by Gilmoure · · Score: 2, Funny

      My browsing history would likely result in spammy poppups.
        *sigh*

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    27. Re:I guess it is good news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Brief history lesson:

      DARPA asked BBN to build the arpanet. They built and owned Autonomous System Number 1. (ASN1)
      BBN split into BBN Technologies and BBN Networking. BBN Technologies went of and did their own thing. BBN Networking kept ASN1 and grew into a tier 1 ISP.
      GTE bought BBN Networking and renamed the division GTE Internet ( aka GTEI )
      Southern Bell bought GTE but wasn't allowed to keep all of it due to monopoly laws put in place during the Ma Bell breakup. They renamed the Telco part Verizon and spun off the infringing internet bit as Genuity.
      Genuity was funded through a 'guaranteed' $2B revolving credit line by Verizon.
      Verizon lobbied enough people to overturn enough of regulations such that they no longer needed Genuity at all, and dumped the loan.
      Genuity's remaing assets were sold in bankruptcy to Level 3 Communications, including ASN1, the 4.0.0.0/8 and 8.0.0.0/8 ARIN allocations and the gtei.net name.

    28. Re:I guess it is good news... by afidel · · Score: 2, Informative

      Note: they also said they would eventually restrict 4.2.2.1 and 4.2.2.2 to customer access only, so if you're not a Level(3) customer, you probably need to find another solution.
      link
      I've seen a bunch of other comments like that from people who seem to know tech people over at L3, combined with the behavior we saw after these comments started popping up and I have to assume that L3 was intentionally introducing the delay to wakeup non-customers to switch off them.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    29. Re:I guess it is good news... by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      It's also double plus ironic.

      I'm sure you must mean ironic#, unladen ironic, or ironic swallow.

    30. Re:I guess it is good news... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Google is datamining everywhere and everything already.

      Yeah, but so is my ISP.

      Virgin Media keep extensive logs of DNS requests, as the government requires them to, for at least one year. Google keep your IP address logged for 24 hours, then remove it and keep the other DNS request data for an indefinite period.

      What is more concerning to me is that my ISP knows who I am. They can easily link up DNS requests with my account and billing details. Google probably could link it up with their other data pools if they wanted to, but they don't require you to have a Google account to use their servers so you don't have to provide them with any more details than your current IP address. E.g. you could use Yahoo for all searches and never send Google any more than just an IP address.

      What it boils down to is that I trust Google a lot more than I trust Virgin Media. At least Google publishes what they do with your data and doesn't sell it to third parties.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    31. Re:I guess it is good news... by MrNaz · · Score: 1

      The problem isn't the targeted ads, it's the data mining.

      I can't for the life of my understand how it is that people bemoan privacy violations everywhere except Google. I just don't understand the free card Google gets in this regard. They collect more data on us than probably any entity that is not a national government, yet we're *happy* every time they grab more.

      WTF people?!

      --
      I hate printers.
    32. Re:I guess it is good news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google is datamining everywhere and everything already.

      Oh, they already know what porn I'm looking at based on my search engine activity. DNS lookups won't show them any fetishes they don't already know about me. =)

    33. Re:I guess it is good news... by chicago_scott · · Score: 1

      The term fanboy is becoming so popular that there's now a group of Fanboy fanboys.

    34. Re:I guess it is good news... by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      I actually have my own DNS for internal naming of statically assigned computers, but then refer to an external DNS for lookup, I may just switch to Google's since they're probably going to be more reliable than any ISP DNS I've used, which always seems to have some outage about once a year.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    35. Re:I guess it is good news... by Hucko · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think that Google gets the free pass because they have so far shown themselves to be the least intrusive, paternalistic and/or come the closest to giving us what we want. And they stand out a fair distance from the rest of the bunch.

      Most of us acknowledge that there isn't a free lunch, so Google *so far* has been enabling the internet to function on its technical capabilities while making a profit. Surely you recognise that a lot of business models block the capabilities of technology to bolster their profits? Google seems to take the opposite approach. This often leads to businesses complaining about their methods, but consumers/customers/collaborators are enabled.

      --
      Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
    36. Re:I guess it is good news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ignorant.

    37. Re:I guess it is good news... by stuckinphp · · Score: 1

      I'd be more impressed if they blocked out ads entirely.

      --
      if only
    38. Re:I guess it is good news... by ImYourVirus · · Score: 1

      Yeah. They make money of their ads not other peoples ads.

      --
      Why is common sense called that if it's not common?
    39. Re:I guess it is good news... by ls671 · · Score: 1

      Configure your DNS to query the root DNSes directly instead of relying on third party DNS, problem solved !

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    40. Re:I guess it is good news... by Labcoat+Samurai · · Score: 1

      They seem pretty competent to me on the spam blocking at least.

    41. Re:I guess it is good news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ironic swallow.

      European or african?

    42. Re:I guess it is good news... by Zadaz · · Score: 1

      Another anecdote for your data:

      I have 5 computers on my home network. One would regularly have slow DNS resolves and probably 1 of 20 would simply fail. To things like google.com. Refreshing the page would usually load correctly.

      The only difference between that computer ant the others? Its DNS was set to 4.2.2.1 and 4.2.2.2. Changing these resolved the issue.

      L3 has giant faults in their service. Either it's intentional or accidental, but I don't know which would be worse.

    43. Re:I guess it is good news... by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      I setup my own DNS but I guess it is a little overkill for the common every day user. Setting your own DNS means you have to go to the network (e.g. internet) less often because your locally hosted DNS caches the already visited sites for a TTL period of time.
      OTOH if your server is a full resolver (rather than a cache using someone elses resolves) your machines has to work down the tree of servers to resolve a name. That means potentially a lot of round trips to resolve a single name (not good if your latency is poor)

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    44. Re:I guess it is good news... by duguk · · Score: 1

      I wrote a far simpler version in VB6 ages ago as a quick tool, and I'm releasing it for free now in case someone finds it useful.

      Benchmarking your domain names is sensible if you're thinking about changing them. This tool grabs multiple domains seeded from Google against your own DNS server and 19 other domain name services. Redirection and caching info isn't shown however I'm looking into adding this.

      It's quick and portable though, and free way of benchmarking your DNS. Screenshot here too.

    45. Re:I guess it is good news... by Natales · · Score: 1

      Which is interesting as that may explain why I'm getting 54ms packet roundtrips with less hops than OpenDNS (17ms) and I'm right in the SF Bay Area...

    46. Re:I guess it is good news... by Dun+Malg · · Score: 1

      How is the word "good think" as a typo of "good thing" even remotely ironic?

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    47. Re:I guess it is good news... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Well to be fair I don't think I've seen the OpenDNS redirect in years. with OpenDNS you have to misspell something so horribly that even Google goes WTF? I've found that OpenDNS combined with Treewalk DNS on an old 1.1Ghz Win2K box makes for a VERY fast network experience. It also supports all the popular blocklists with the Confetch plugin so you can kill ads no matter what browser you are using.

      I've set Treewalk up for clients on boxes as old as a 400Mhz P2 with 128Mb and Win2K and it is rock solid, so if anyone out there needs an 'easy peasy' DNS setup i would recommend Treewalk on an old Win2K or XP box with it looking up to either OpenDNS or the new Google DNS if you prefer.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    48. Re:I guess it is good news... by Reziac · · Score: 1

      [goes to look] I like the interface, at least per the screenshot. Very straightforward. Downloaded, will give it a shot!

      Per Gibson's tool (still waiting for it to finish, will try yours next), I can't beat my local nameservers... which I suppose makes sense since they're physically close.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    49. Re:I guess it is good news... by Eil · · Score: 2, Informative

      They're not doing any datamining with the resolvers, beyond keeping an eye out for performance and abuse issues. From their privacy page:

      Google Public DNS stores two sets of logs: temporary and permanent. The temporary logs store the full IP address of the machine you're using. We have to do this so that we can spot potentially bad things like DDoS attacks and so we can fix problems, such as particular domains not showing up for specific users.

      We delete these temporary logs within 24 to 48 hours.

      In the permanent logs, we don't keep personally identifiable information or IP information. We do keep some location information (at the city/metro level) so that we can conduct debugging, analyze abuse phenomena and improve the Google Public DNS prefetching feature. We don't correlate or combine your information from these logs with any other log data that Google might have about your use of other services, such as data from Web Search and data from advertising on the Google content network. After keeping this data for two weeks, we randomly sample a small subset for permanent storage.

      It seems they're actually playing relatively nice here and aren't adding the DNS queries to your "Google profile" like they do with search engine queries and other Google activity. They can already track the majority of your movements online through their advertising and stats programs and can gather even more detailed information if you use their web browser. Adding DNS profiling into the mix is probably a bit redundant.

      Assuming they're telling the truth, Google's goal with their public resolvers is just to make DNS faster and more efficient.

    50. Re:I guess it is good news... by jbengt · · Score: 1

      People have always been happy about getting more targetted ads.

      Not me.
      If I'm not purposefully seeking out a particular thing, I want a broad spectrum. I hate being pigeonholed, and enjoy becoming aware of new things.

    51. Re:I guess it is good news... by node+3 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Read 1984. Not just to get my joke, but it's also a great book. Plus you'll understand what people mean by Big Brother (it's *much* more sinister than just someone else taking care of you).

    52. Re:I guess it is good news... by Shakrai · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Virgin Media keep extensive logs of DNS requests, as the government requires them to, for at least one year.

      Your country requires them to keep logs of your DNS requests for 12 months? You have my sympathy.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    53. Re:I guess it is good news... by DJRumpy · · Score: 1

      Honestly I never see ads anymore. Most major browsers offer adblock plus. I know I never see them. I realize this may end up putting a damper on Google's grand scheme, but it's not my job to make them revenue at my expense.

      Do people actually still browse without ad blockers?

    54. Re:I guess it is good news... by symbolset · · Score: 1

      If Virgin Media wants to continue to monitor your DNS requests they can just inspect the requests and log them as they flow through their network. You're not gaining any additional privacy by using Google's DNS. The way to do this properly is to have an encrypted DNS lookup like this. As far as I know this technology isn't working yet.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    55. Re:I guess it is good news... by jthill · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Guess the mods aren't heavily into reading comprehension these days? Preemptive caching will mean querying upstream before the TTL expires even in the absence of a client request, so by the time Dad wants to see it Google has already fetched the new record. The only question is when to allow a RR to age out of the cache.

      --
      As always, all IMO. Insert "I think" everywhere grammatically possible.
    56. Re:I guess it is good news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just a few clarifications...GTEI was GTE Internetworking, and GTE was bought by Bell Atlantic.

    57. Re:I guess it is good news... by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      Thank you! I was dimly aware of bits and pieces of this, but it's good to have it all laid out.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    58. Re:I guess it is good news... by SnowZero · · Score: 4, Informative

      If they're just after datamining the DNS requests, this service can happily run on negative income, because it improves Google's other things and provides them even more data.

      This is untrue. From the Google DNS privacy page, linked from the blog post (emphasis added):

      Google Public DNS stores two sets of logs: temporary and permanent. The temporary logs store the full IP address of the machine you're using. We have to do this so that we can spot potentially bad things like DDoS attacks and so we can fix problems, such as particular domains not showing up for specific users. We delete these temporary logs within 24 to 48 hours.

      In the permanent logs, we don't keep personally identifiable information or IP information. We do keep some location information (at the city/metro level) so that we can conduct debugging, analyze abuse phenomena and improve the Google Public DNS prefetching feature. We don't correlate or combine your information from these logs with any other log data that Google might have about your use of other services, such as data from Web Search and data from advertising on the Google content network. After keeping this data for two weeks, we randomly sample a small subset for permanent storage.

      That page also details exactly what features are logged. Does your current upstream DNS provider document their logging policies?

      Disclaimer: I work for Google, but I will cite my sources.

    59. Re:I guess it is good news... by ls671 · · Score: 1

      I have always been the "paranoia is good" type of administrator and I didn't want to trust any third party DNS in case they get hijacked or misconfigured. I admit this may change with Google, I might decide to trust them but then again... ;-))

      So yes, I query the root servers, ping time is between 21ms and 225ms for them with several between 21-28ms and bind pickups the closest ones so I am not worrying about the multiple round trips that much especially since my DNS will first cache the .com authoritative DNS, then the .google.com authoritative DNS etc, etc, so I quickly start saving on round-trips and I end up not querying the top level authoritative DNS that much so I have never noticed any difference.

      http://www.caida.org/outreach/papers/2003/dnsplacement/dnsplacement.pdf

      Also, remember root DNS addresses are routed differently, so chances are you should always have one close to you . Of course, this won't help your problem if you have a 1 second latency between yourself and your provider router.

      "The modern trend is to use anycast addressing and routing to provide resilience and load balancing across a wide geographic area. For example, the j.root-servers.net root server, maintained by VeriSign, is represented by 41 (as of July 2008[update]) individual server systems located around the world which can be queried using anycast addressing."

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNS_root_zone

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    60. Re:I guess it is good news... by Fred_A · · Score: 2, Funny

      4.2.2.2 and their ilk are free and non-redirecting. You can use 4.2.2.1 4.2.2.2 4.2.2.3 4.2.2.4 4.2.2.5 or 4.2.2.6

      They are run by L-3 and sitting on major backbones, and the ip addresses are pooled, so that you will likely get a server that is geographically near you when you use one of those addresses.

      But with Google you don't have to use those complicated numbers any more. It's all much more simple. All you have to use is
      dns.google.com
      Much simpler to remember.

      If it doesn't work, it's because it's still in beta. Just try again.

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    61. Re:I guess it is good news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...the willingness to operate at a financial loss in order to mine more data.

      Not true.

    62. Re:I guess it is good news... by Lord+Bitman · · Score: 1

      Because Google is: A corporation, out to sell me things.
      While Government is: A huge flailing idiot with the authority to lock me in prison or kill me.

      If Google decides I'm a terrorist pedophile who wants to rob a bank, I'll see ads for cheap airfare (I'm cool with that) unmarked vans full of candy (everyone likes candy by the van-load!) and portable tool-kits (what geek doesn't love such a thing?)

      If the Government decides I'm a terrorist pedophile who wants to rob a bank, they have the ability and desire to kill me.

      Remember: the innocent have nothing to hide, until the Government changes the definition of "innocent"

      --
      -- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
    63. Re:I guess it is good news... by mahadiga · · Score: 1

      geographically near you when you use one of those addresses.

      You can get that list in http://www.dnsserverlist.org/indexbeta.php?oby=Q_RTT

      --
      I'd like to buy homeland for our 10 million people. http://twitter.com/mahadiga
    64. Re:I guess it is good news... by icebraining · · Score: 1

      Google has already provided personal data to the Government.

    65. Re:I guess it is good news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do people actually still browse without ad blockers?

      Why do you ask stupid and obvious questions? Yes, yes they do.

    66. Re:I guess it is good news... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That was what I was assuming; does this mean that Google is going to DoS things like DynDNS out of existence?

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    67. Re:I guess it is good news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      does this mean that Google is going to DoS things like DynDNS out of existence?

      There are two things to think about when deciding whether to refresh an entry that is about to expire. How much memory you have for the cache, and how much load you put on the server serving it. If you are low on memory you will have to throw the least used entries (for some definition of least used) out of the cache. Sometimes you will have to do that even before they expire. The question about load on the authoritative servers may be a bit more complicated.

      If a record is requested at least once between two refreshes, then there will be no more load on the authoritative server than there would have been if there had been no cache at all (or the users had used independent caches). So, if a record was used at least once since the last time it was refreshed, then it is ok to request it from the authoritative server again. If the record was not requested at all since the last time it was refreshed, then it is probably about time to drop it from the cache.

      Some of the documentation suggested that Google keeps another level of caches apart from just the resolvers that users talks directly to. This may mean that they are able to do the refreshing from just one location instead of having every resolver do it independently. That would mean less load on the authoritative servers than if users were using ordinary resolvers. I don't know if Google is actually doing this, I'm just making random guesses about what they may mean with "a cache elsewhere in the system (but not in the frontend)"

      Overall if Google can get enough users of this system, and they are smart enough, then they can reduce the total load on dyndns. And, if they end up sending lots of requests to dyndns anyway, then maybe they can get together and implement an even smarter scheme (maybe zone transfers.)

    68. Re:I guess it is good news... by duguk · · Score: 1

      Thank you so much for your comments! =) I love to write simple tools like this and I really hope its helpful!

      I have to admit, mines a fight between gtei.net/openDNS and my local NS! The screenie is actually from a test I did =)

    69. Re:I guess it is good news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice? Google?

      The Google DNS page has a link to Google's generic Privacy Policy; but the policy does not mention the DNS service or how each requesting IP address is potentially used.

    70. Re:I guess it is good news... by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      This has nothing to do with Google, and everything to do with growing up with traditional media.

      I'm sick and tired of watching a TV show and having to watch ads for feminine hygiene products because they think that's the target market for the show I enjoy. I have no problem watching (and often enjoy) ads for products I actually use or like.

      Like the GP I suspect, I'd much rather see advertising on websites that is relevant to my needs and caters to my interests than advertising that doesn't, given only those two options.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    71. Re:I guess it is good news... by MikeBabcock · · Score: 0

      Oooh, that sounds like the land of the free. Sarcasm about the American anthem aside, when are the residents of the home of the brave going to act the part and stand up to these egregious intrusions into their homes and minds?

      Imagine for a moment the reaction if the government were trying to get libraries a century ago to keep data on all the books and periodicals looked at by citizens so that law enforcement could come down on the interests they dislike faster and easier. I'm quite certain even today that librarians would react with hostility where ISPs have not.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    72. Re:I guess it is good news... by Aphoxema · · Score: 1

      Knowledge is power. Google has focused on knowing, so now they have the power.

      --
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
    73. Re:I guess it is good news... by j00r0m4nc3r · · Score: 1

      I can't for the life of my understand how it is that people bemoan privacy violations everywhere except Google

      How is this a privacy violation? You're already using DNS. You're already letting someone else know the sites you visit. In fact, you probably use the exact same DNS server 100% of the time, so some entity somewhere knows 100% of the sites you visit ALREADY. So how is it a privacy violation to use Google's DNS server instead of your ISP's?

    74. Re:I guess it is good news... by onepoint · · Score: 1

      I was thinking of that, but in reading the rules of it, they ask that you do not query them directly. here is the wiki about the root nameservers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_nameserver . In that report they say in 2003 that 2% of the request are legitimate the rest are problems.

      What I think needs to be done, is more services similar to googles dns and opendns. this can only add to the performance of the internet.

      Now If i am seeing googles game plan correctly, here is my prediction.
      A) if google is aiming to become a root name server of the future, they are beta testing the dns system. something to the level almost unshakable by the common hacker. so more security to the end user and a faster internet

      b) google now having the control of the dns will use that power ( good bad whatever ) to bring into align all the other top level namespaces, it might just put it's foot down and say we won't resolve alternic and the few others.

      c) google using it's domain registration company will offer a higher quality service against the top domain registra's (network solutions ) that are not price competitive and compete for the rights to run .com, or .biz or and of the others.

      I look at google like playing a game of go ( not chess ). you fight to win overall, and targeting the weak structures ( that are important to the GEEK community ) is on the top of the list.

      the GEEK community now controls most, if not all IT investments, if a firm like Google offers something for free, it's used. In the 70's and 80's we had a saying in the IT community, " you never get fired for buying IBM equipment ", it was fact that no mater how bad you screwed up, nothing would happen if you went the IBM way, your bosses you just put it as a problem with the vendor and not the IT department. I would not be surprised if that mindset has taken hold.

      So, if the google game plan is to dominate the market, start looking and the weak points on the internet ( and the services ) and build up around that. hmmm ... e-mail free, simple office stuff - free, simple web design - free, social networking -free, dns -free, let's chat - free

      Let's sum it up, I watch you talk about something (chat), you design it (web design), cost it out (office), you write to your friends to see it (social networking), it goes to the market and people find your domain (dns)... google can offer a well targeted ad to those visitors

      -onepoint

      --
      if you see me, smile and say hello.
    75. Re:I guess it is good news... by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      No, actually it sounds like the UK and/or EU, but I didn't want to jump to any conclusions. I've worked in the ISP business before and there is no law that I'm aware of in the United States requiring me to keep logs of anything, let alone DNS requests.

      We did keep logs of IP address assignments but that was our decision and wasn't prompted by any law or regulation that I was aware of. There's certainly no law in the US requiring that you keep logs of DNS requests. Such a requirement would run afoul of the 4th amendment.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    76. Re:I guess it is good news... by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

      Yes. And no, I don't see many ads either. No ad blocker installed on Windows or Linux, or as an extension if Firefox. Honestly don't see the need to hit my computer's performance for something so small.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    77. Re:I guess it is good news... by Reziac · · Score: 1

      On the downside, it didn't like my system much (P3-550, Win98-not-SE) and threw up with a runtime error when I tried to .. uh, what was I doing, pick something from the default list to test? Normally VB6 apps run fine, so it's not that.

      Did I mention my fearsome repute as "the beta tester who can break anything"?? :)

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    78. Re:I guess it is good news... by drpimp · · Score: 1

      Great info, but the half empty side of my suggests that privacy notices can and have changed with various companies before. And once if/when that stipulation is removed, that giant amount of data could be used for exactly what the other people here are suggesting. Regardless, when I first read that Google was doing a public DNS I thought it was cool.

      --
      -- Brought to you by Carl's JR
    79. Re:I guess it is good news... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      At least 12 months. IIRC it is increasing to two years.

      Actually they log the domain name of every page visited. Not sure about the whole URL, but I imagine that can be logged if required too.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    80. Re:I guess it is good news... by sexconker · · Score: 1

      And I guess you didn't read my post.
      It doesn't matter when google decides to refresh it's cache. You can still get an invalid entry, an entry they haven't cached, or an entry that is currently being refreshed.

      Any DNS server can choose how frequently to refresh it's cache, whether it updates or purges during a refresh, and whether or not to return the stale result (be it stale according to the official TTL or stale according to your own refresh frequency) while refreshing.

      Updating your cache 1 hour before it needs to be updated is not magic. They just use a higher standard for the expiration date, and pay a price for it.

    81. Re:I guess it is good news... by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      You can see here what I was thinking of. Also covered on cnet.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    82. Re:I guess it is good news... by ls671 · · Score: 1

      With bind properly configured, you would be in the 2% of the legitimate requests. I do not see any "rules" saying not to query them when properly configured.

      Also you do not end up querying the root DNS that often because your bind will cache .com .net .google.net, etc... top authoritave DNS.

      http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1465906&cid=30321592

      See my other post about this, for example j.ROOT-SERVERS.NET is in realty 41 machines spread geographically around the world, if Google could simply contribute to the root name server pool in order to help.

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    83. Re:I guess it is good news... by duguk · · Score: 1

      Hi Reziac, can you let me know what the runtime error was? I've got a Win98 machine I can test on, would love to get this kinda thing sorted. Should really have made an installer for it, but a runtime error would indicate a bug =)

      Feel free to drop me an email, contact form on my website or my email address is on Slashdot too. Thanks so much for your feedback, I really do appreciate all reports!

    84. Re:I guess it is good news... by complete+loony · · Score: 1

      I have read previously that one of google's objectives is to lower the profit level of things their competitors make money from.

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    85. Re:I guess it is good news... by ls671 · · Score: 1

      You need to enter an IP for DNS settings, names like dns.google.com won't work. Look at:

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken-and-egg_problem

      I understand this was meant to be funny, just posting to enlighten the ones who might believe you, I would have modded you funny +5 if I hadn't already posted previously ;-)))))))

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    86. Re:I guess it is good news... by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Got a bunch of stuff running right now that I don't want to risk disrupting, but email me in a day or two and I'll see what damage I can do :) I think there was something specific with the runtime error, and usually anything like that will reproduce reliably enough. The system itself is very stable and not prone to cause weirdness.

      email (rividh/at/earthlink/dot/net) or (rez/at/doomgold/dot/com)

      I just unzipped and ran it (there was an OCX in the same directory which I presume belongs to it). Already had VB6 runtimes from some previous use, installed in the usual place.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    87. Re:I guess it is good news... by jthill · · Score: 2

      No, I read it alright.

      The TTL on a DNS cache entry is supplied by the record's owner, and is an authoritative statement by that owner that the contents will remain valid at least until the TTL has expired. No DNS server will ever return a reply whose TTL has expired simply because anything that does return such a reply isn't a DNS server.

      So your Dad scenario, the "probably still good" reply, and of course your absolute assertion just now that you can "get an invalid entry", isn't just a little wrong, it's completely and blatantly ignorant.

      I've pulled boners just as bad myself, mind.

      --
      As always, all IMO. Insert "I think" everywhere grammatically possible.
    88. Re:I guess it is good news... by amanfromMars · · Score: 1

      Do you imagine the following is what Google and Search Engine Algorithms are capable of..........

      What’s Stopping Google Going for Goal and Great Game Win Win?*

      Posted Friday 4th December 2009 16:43 GMT

      When Google start making News for Paper Tiger Media Barons to Distribute, will Search Engines have automatically Morphed into Future Intelligent Present Placement of Current Leading Information Machines.

      Which is a New World Order Program which can only be Bettered by more Advanced Beta IntelAIgents, and that would be a Most Welcome Addition.

      * Vital Algorithms for Remote Control of Key Trigger Events?

      http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/1/2009/12/04/google_culture/ ......... or is that a Special Powers Act and Semantic Applications Program from Open Source Entities EMPowered with Remote Virtual Control of Cloud Communications ....... and Running XXXXStreamly Sensitive Initiating Energy Field Trials already. Such is the Sublime Stealth Facility in CyberIntelAIgent Security Theatres of Virtual Operation ..... which allows for Instant Progress to be Presented with the Global Placement of Good News and Novel Views, rather than Searching for it with Myriad Old and Established Vested Interest Groupings battling against Time and Tide.

      And thus is Reality and the Future easily Virtually Controlled Remotely by CyberIntelAIgent Servers and Specialist Services from an Invisible and Intangible Satellite Communications Control Centre in Cloud Bases ..... Titanic Rain Generators from Slave Operating Systems Embedded.

      You may like to consider, that having all of the world's information at your beck and call for immediate viewing, allows one to grow in intelligence and greater understanding at a quite extraordinary exponential rate*. There comes a time, and it arrives sooner and more often as intelligence and greater understanding grows, whenever what you are looking for as the next logical progressive step in a Program or Project is Missing, [as has been Removed because of the Dangerous and/or Vital Advantageous Nature of the Information] or has not yet been Discovered/Invented/Shared.

      Then does the Old Remove and Hide and Use and Abuse Regime have to Fight a Losing Battle against itself as it tries to keep Virgin Thoughts Mirroring and Exposing the Matter, out of Space and off NINJA Channels and Pirate and Private Waves. Both water and collander spring to mind in such a situation, which may be first party suspected but not third party confirmed, which is Madness in Communications whenever there is a Lack of Communication.

      * A rise in Virtual Fields of Research characterised by Quantum Leaps into A.N.Other Consciousness with Enlightened Simple Planes of Command and Control.

    89. Re:I guess it is good news... by sexconker · · Score: 1

      All Google is doing is refreshing it's cache before entries expire.

      DNS servers can and do return recently expired entries. It may not be to spec, but it fucking works and is right 99% of the time and you'll never know when they're doing it.

      Google is doing nothing special by refreshing its cache early.

    90. Re:I guess it is good news... by DocHoncho · · Score: 1

      Sssh! The paranoids get antsy when you confuse them with logic.

      --
      Celebrity worship is a poor substitute for Deity worship and costs more to boot.
    91. Re:I guess it is good news... by sgbett · · Score: 1

      I don't bother with ad blockers. I don't entirely get the love affair with them either. I successfully ignore IRL ads, ignoring online ads is just as easy. For me its like it gets filterd by the eyes automatically and never even seems to reach the brain!

      I have heard arguments about bandwidth and load times, but they seem pretty weak thesedays imho.

      I wall grant you that it can be annoying when a site has one of those ad-rotation servers that are unresponsive. In those cases I tend to vote with my feet and go elsewhere.

      --
      Invaders must die
    92. Re:I guess it is good news... by jthill · · Score: 1

      All Google is doing is refreshing its cache before entries expire.

      Well, no, it isn't.

      Did you miss the part where they're setting up a global network of public servers doing it free for everyone on the planet that wants it?

      Or the part where doing it their particular "nothing special" way is exactly what's needed to avoid letting entries go stale where it's possible at all?

      Or the part where they say that they do it that way precisely because the entire point is they want their servers to respond fast, as if, somehow, not having a valid entry on hand would delay their servers' response?

      Did you miss not just the whole point of the story but every little detail too?

      I'm thinking "not heavily into reading comprehension" is the charitable explanation here.

      --
      As always, all IMO. Insert "I think" everywhere grammatically possible.
    93. Re:I guess it is good news... by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Free?
      There is always a cost. They mine your data.
      Google is an advertising company.
      No thanks.

      Fast?
      They're shit compared to my ISP and most others, and other non-ISP DNS services. So no, they're not doing anything special.

  2. DDoS attacks by avij · · Score: 3, Interesting

    But I thought open recursive DNS servers were bad -- haven't you heard of DNS DDoS amplification attacks? Why would Google's open recursive DNS service be any better in this regard?

    --

    Follow your Euro bills at EBT
    1. Re:DDoS attacks by sopssa · · Score: 1

      That only applies to consumer lines. I doubt Google is running their DNS server on one of their workers basement.

    2. Re:DDoS attacks by neoform · · Score: 1

      I suspect Google is adept enough to know how to handle malicious recursive queries..

      --
      MABASPLOOM!
    3. Re:DDoS attacks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      http://code.google.com/speed/public-dns/faq.html#issues

    4. Re:DDoS attacks by mea37 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm no expert on DNS DDoS amplification attacks, but reading up on them (including what Google has to say about them) I don't know what makes you say they only apply to consumer lines.

      First of all, even if it were impossible to overwhelm Google's bandwidth, that wouldn't stop an attacker from using Google's open resolver in an amplification attack against some other target; in that regard, it woudl be better if Google were running it from an employee's basement.

      Besides, it appears this type of attack has been used to create orders of mangitude more traffic than would be needed to just flood a consumer line.

      According to Google's site, they recognize this as a problem and have mitigation strategies in place; the most relevant one seems to be throttles on sending of response packets to any given target.

    5. Re:DDoS attacks by svtdragon · · Score: 1

      This article explicitly says that it can prevent amplification attacks, though it makes no mention of how.

    6. Re:DDoS attacks by bschorr · · Score: 1

      You would think so but they've made mistakes with security before. http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/03/26/more-security-loopholes-found-in-google-docs/

      --
      -B-
    7. Re:DDoS attacks by darkmeridian · · Score: 5, Informative

      Google's DNS service defends against DDoS amplification attacks by using rate-limiting techniques. From Google:

      The best approach for combating DoS attacks is to impose a rate-limiting or "throttling" mechanism. Google Public DNS implements two kinds of rate control:
      Rate control of outgoing requests to other nameservers. To protect other DNS nameservers against DoS attacks that could be launched from our resolver servers, Google Public DNS enforces per-nameserver QPS limits on outgoing requests from each serving cluster.
      Rate control of outgoing responses to clients. To protect any other systems against amplification and traditional distributed DoS (botnet) attacks that could be launched from our resolver servers, Google Public DNS performs two types of rate limiting on client queries:
      To protect against traditional volume-based attacks, each server imposes per-client-IP QPS and average bandwidth limits.
      To guard against amplification attacks, in which large responses to small queries are exploited, each server enforces a per-client-IP maximum average amplification factor. The average amplification factor is a configurable ratio of response-to-query size, determined from historical traffic patterns observed in our server logs.

      --
      A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
    8. Re:DDoS attacks by neoform · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Unlike Google docs, DNS is relatively simple.. the idea of recursive queries being misused is quite commonplace and would be a huge oversight if they neglected to takes actions to avoid the abuse..

      --
      MABASPLOOM!
    9. Re:DDoS attacks by digitalunity · · Score: 2, Informative

      DNS is simple?

      BIND has what, 200 releases in the 9.x branch alone? There are more BIND releases than there are Linux kernels, and that's saying something!

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    10. Re:DDoS attacks by naasking · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Isn't that more indicative of the quality of the BIND code, more than the complexity of DNS itself? Contrast it with the number of djbdns releases.

    11. Re:DDoS attacks by digitalunity · · Score: 2, Informative

      That's indicative of the fact that DNS is a fundamental piece of the internet framework and those who develop it realize security issues must be fixed as soon as possible. I can't tell you how many BIND releases have been to only address one security issue.

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    12. Re:DDoS attacks by neoform · · Score: 1

      Basic functionality of a name server is really not that complicated.. BIND is complicated because of all the features and configurations it can handle, but Google stated that they use their own proprietary name server software..

      --
      MABASPLOOM!
    13. Re:DDoS attacks by neoform · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Does this mean it would be a bad idea to use Google as my own DNS server's source?

      --
      MABASPLOOM!
    14. Re:DDoS attacks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But I thought open recursive DNS servers were bad -- haven't you heard of DNS DDoS amplification attacks? Why would Google's open recursive DNS service be any better in this regard?

      umm... because it comes from google?

    15. Re:DDoS attacks by pizzap · · Score: 1

      Bind is a dns server, the dns protocol is not so difficult. Take a look at the smaller servers, like tinydns. Then look at the bind sourcecode: the library to parse the zone files already 2mb.

    16. Re:DDoS attacks by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      That only applies to consumer lines. I doubt Google is running their DNS server on one of their workers basement.

      Are you sure? What if this is a 20% project? ;)

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    17. Re:DDoS attacks by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      It's also indicative of how complicated BIND is. It's the EMACS of DNS servers. Any given BIND install is unlikely to be using more than a small fraction of BIND's functionality. It's pretty easy to write a simple authoritative DNS server, or a DNS cache. Something that does both, handles zone transfers, and all of the other things BIND can do is a lot harder. If you're not an ISP, BIND is probably the wrong tool for you; people use it because it will do what they need, whatever (DNS-related) problem they need to solve.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    18. Re:DDoS attacks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      haven't you heard of DNS DDoS amplification attacks?

      No, but using Google I was able to find information about it. From the information I found, two things became clear. First of all, it is not at all specific to recursive resolvers. You can find records where authoritative servers will return answers which are significantly larger than the requests. Besides, it is much easier to detect and prevent if one entity is operating a large number of recursive resolvers. In order to make the attack effective, you need to use independent resolvers run by different entities. You may decide to make use of Google in an attack, but don't expect them to amplify anymore packets for you than any one small recursive resolver would. You still need to find lots of open recursive resolvers to perform an attack, using Google as the only one won't make an effective attack.

  3. At least they have a clear privacy policy by Edgewize · · Score: 5, Informative

    They state very bluntly that IP addresses are expunged from the logs after 48 hours, and that no data is shared with Google Accounts or other Google services. They still get to play with a lot of aggregated data, but this seems like a fairly non-evil way to do it. Good for them. http://code.google.com/speed/public-dns/faq.html#privacy

    1. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by GweeDo · · Score: 1

      Actually they purge your IP address in only 24 hours and this data is in no way attached to what they store in regards to your Google Account.

    2. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by Ziekheid · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    3. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by Hijacked+Public · · Score: 1

      Since it can't be proven that they won't violate their own policies, there are going to be people who refuse to use the service regardless of what Google says they'll do with the data.

      But if you believe the above I think it pretty generous. I don't see any reason Google (or any other for profit company) would offer a service like this and say that they will never ever look at any of the data. They can't effectively sell ads with it if it follows the DNS standard. They can't drive traffic to their other properties.

      And, to be honest, I have no idea what my ISP's policy is regarding DNS lookups. If they have one I suspect it allows them much more latitude than Google's.

      --
      "Sacrifice for the good of The State" - The State
    4. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by Z00L00K · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Add to that the fact that some IP addresses are shared by a lot of virtual sites which makes statistics about as precise as the slashdot polls.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    5. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by JCSoRocks · · Score: 1

      Based on this information, I'm officially switching. The first time I came across an advertisement rather than a failed DNS lookup I was not happy. It's incredibly annoying.

      --
      You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
    6. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by WarwickRyan · · Score: 1

      These free DNS services redirect you to their own 'search engines' which contain (often intrusive) ads and links to various sites. What do you do if you get an error instead of the redirect? You'd either fix the typo, or (as I do) google the site... ..and that's google's profit.

      In the scheme of things I'd guess that running an DNS service would cost a company like google peanuts. So they're effectively printing money by doing it.

      For similar reasons I could see them, say, buying Twitter. For a company like Google the running costs wouldn't be significant, but there's potentially an enormous amount of value for them there. Hell, it's a no brainer for them. It's also probably the reason for Twitter's continued venture funding: it's value is increasing much faster than its costs are..

    7. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by Hatta · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't see any reason Google (or any other for profit company) would offer a service like this and say that they will never ever look at any of the data.

      Oh they'll look at the data. They'll just pseudonymize it first.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    8. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

      They state very bluntly that IP addresses are expunged from the logs after 48 hours, and that no data is shared with Google Accounts or other Google services.

      And you believe them?

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    9. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by TheModelEskimo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Uh, actually it's their service and the ToS changes anytime they want it to. This is also known as a phased takeover, in case you haven't noticed other corporations *starting out* with a beautifully ethical ToS before.

    10. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, he is a fanboi

    11. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      Based on this information, I'm officially switching. The first time I came across an advertisement rather than a failed DNS lookup I was not happy. It's incredibly annoying.

      And it's incredibly bad practice. It's in the very best interests of Google that people still enjoy searching for stuff on the net. Their own public DNS redirector is a very logical step and a very good move on their part, and I applaud their smarts. I absolutely hate it when good, working engineering standards are subverted by commercial crap.

      Awesome IP address, too (ping -a 8.8.8.8)

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    12. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2, Insightful

      mod parent up!

      the current google is somewhat evil; we have no idea what happens LATER when, uhh, the TOS get changed (somehow...)

      "the first one is free". remember that phrase. it applies here, too, in concept.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    13. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So why do they log it (and then purge it) if they don't use it for anything?

    14. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by Spliffster · · Score: 1

      That's an interesting point which will make it harder for google to relate the resolved site with the client.

      However, it's just bad luck if the target site uses and google service (ads, cdn, webmaster tools, analytics, application exports like docs/spread, etc.).

      Cheers,
      -S

    15. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by Idiomatick · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Point to one instance of a Google ToS getting worse. We are talking about a DNS server. Only /. types know what that is nvm would be willing to change theirs. Were Google to change their policy it would be pretty widespread news in the tiny group of people that use it. I don't know what you think they'd have to gain from annoying a bunch of nerds (re: people that support and build their whole business). More likely they made something for internal/personal use and just decided to release it because... well it's Google, they can.

    16. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Other companies, perhaps. But when has Google ever made their ToS more evil?

      As far as I'm concerned, Google has done nothing to undermine our trust in their sincerity. If you have examples, though, I'm more than willing to dig in to it.

    17. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by BluBrick · · Score: 1

      Awesome IP address, too (ping -a 8.8.8.8)

      The alternate is equally cool (8.8.4.4)

      However, not so much if you happen to be chinese, though.

      One eight? Easy fortune - good.
      Two eights? Double fortune - good.
      Three eights? Birth (of) fortune - good.
      Four eights? Death (of) fortune - bad, very bad!

      --
      Ahh - My eye!
      The doctor said I'm not supposed to get Slashdot in it!
    18. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is there something that makes Chinese moronic superstitions superior to anyone else's moronic superstitions?

    19. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by omnichad · · Score: 1

      They give nothing but proper DNS responses. They respond to non-existent domains with NXDOMAIN. No redirects. Other free services do what you describe.

    20. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by Jugalator · · Score: 1

      Just out of interest, how frequent has this practice been by Google in the past?

        I can't recall any horror stories about this even on Slashdot, which is exactly the kind of site that would be all over the opportunity.

      Personally, I think this service may be put online simply to put Google in more positive light. Doing a service just for the heck of it, with no hidden agenda. It's not like they don't have the economy to run a public, well-configured, DNS, and still some to spare. :-p Now they can feel like they offer a public DNS service while Microsoft doesn't, and feel good about that.

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    21. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by TheModelEskimo · · Score: 1

      >I don't know what you think they'd have to gain from annoying a bunch of nerds (re: people that support and build their whole business)

      Uh, does that logic actually work *anywhere*? The nerds are always the ones being stepped on in favor of marketability, business process, etc.

      Google's shareholders will, at some point, decide that "being nice to nerds" is just one more way of being conciliatory. And being conciliatory is just one more way of losing money.

    22. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's 48 hours for each request, and it's only the public dns permanent log (which does not hold IP information) that they claim is not correlated with their search and ad database. so unless you regularly take 2 day breaks from the internet, there is no privacy here.

    23. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by symbolset · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Since the ISP that I currently pay to resolve my DNS does redirection (Comcast), I'm going to go with "Google is less evil" here, since they're willing to provide DNS service for free without redirection. I'll worry about potential evil after I escape the active, palpable, real evil I'm dealing with now.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    24. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Yes White upper middle class liberals who live high off the hog of Western Culture but berate it for Eastern Culture as they go and rape that as well under the guise of White Guilt. Anything not white is good even though they would never date a brown.

    25. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But they keep a small subset for permanent storage. Notice the value of small isn't quantified? So they could take about 50% of all the DNS logs, and call that a "small subset", but that's really a lot of kept data for permanent storage.

      So the privacy policy may be adequate for some, but it definitely isn't a clear one.

    26. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      What basis do you trust google?

      There is no obvious financial motivation for Google collecting all the information about us that they are collecting. It doesn't impact their advertising revenue, it's not needed to provide better searches, and it certainly costs them money to collect it.

      They might anonomize it, but why on earth are they even collecting it. What do they plan to do with it, and what do we do if they stop anonmizing it or if it isn't as anonymous as we think(they only say they purge the IP address as far as I can tell).

      Metaphorically Google are like the guy with the wild eyes and a machine gun. Yeah he hasn't shot anyone yet, and maybe he won't ever shoot anyone, but who the hell knows what he's thinking.

    27. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      They might anonomize it, but why on earth are they even collecting it. What do they plan to do with it, and what do we do if they stop anonmizing it or if it isn't as anonymous as we think(they only say they purge the IP address as far as I can tell).

      Perhaps you should actually read their privacy policy, but I'll quote it for you for convenience:

      Google Public DNS stores two sets of logs: temporary and permanent. The temporary logs store the full IP address of the machine you're using. We have to do this so that we can spot potentially bad things like DDoS attacks and so we can fix problems, such as particular domains not showing up for specific users.

      We delete these temporary logs within 24 to 48 hours.

      In the permanent logs, we don't keep personally identifiable information or IP information. We do keep some location information (at the city/metro level) so that we can conduct debugging, analyze abuse phenomena and improve the Google Public DNS prefetching feature. We don't correlate or combine your information from these logs with any other log data that Google might have about your use of other services, such as data from Web Search and data from advertising on the Google content network. After keeping this data for two weeks, we randomly sample a small subset for permanent storage.

      The above link also includes a complete list of the data that gets permanently stored.

      So they're not really "collecting" anything. And if they do for some reason change their privacy policy, do you really think it will be that hard to switch your DNS settings back to someone else?

    28. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      It's not so much about the DNS, it's about google in general.

      I'm not saying that this DNS is a problem, or anything else they've got. I just said that people who explicity trust google because they haven't done anything evil with all the information they collect yet, are at best somewhat naive.

      Google collects an awful lot of info about you, what you search for, which web sites you visit(if they have analytics), all your e-mails(if you're on gmail), all your documents(if you use their apps), the places you look for on google maps, and with DNS which domain names you request. They're getting scarily close to having information about everything that people do on the web, and an alarming amount of what they do off of it.

      Now they don't really have any particular need to be collecting this information. Sure knowing what the most popular searches are is interesting, but it's not commercially interesting unless they use that information to make money.

      I use google products, I might even use this DNS service, but I don't trust google, I don't understand their motivations and to be perfectly honest that makes me a little nervous.

    29. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      I just said that people who explicity trust google because they haven't done anything evil with all the information they collect yet, are at best somewhat naive.

      So.. trusting someone because thus far they've been trustworthy is naive? Man, I'd hate to live by that philosophy.

      Now they don't really have any particular need to be collecting this information.

      What information do you think they're collecting? They don't associate your DNS queries with you; they don't attach them to your Google accounts. They don't even keep the majority of the queries long-term. (Their privacy policy says they keep an anonymous, random subset of the queries.) They even explicitly state that they don't share it with other Google divisions (e.g. the advertising division), and they don't share it with any other company, so as long as they're following their current spec there's absolutely nothing "nefarious" they can do with what little DNS information they're keeping.

      I use google products, I might even use this DNS service, but I don't trust google

      If you don't trust them, why do you use their services? That seems inconsistent to me.

      Maybe they're just worried about ISPs hijacking NXDOMAIN requests (slightly reducing Google's search marketshare). But I don't see why they can't just be doing something nice, because they feel like being cool.

      Your paranoia is a little tiring. As long as Google gives me no reason to mistrust them, I'm not going to be paranoid about their offerings. Sure, I read their privacy policy first - that covers the "what are they doing with this data" worry that you're bringing up - but since the worry is satisfied, there's no reason to cling to your paranoid fantasies about Google's evil plan for world domination.

    30. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      No, thinking that a multi-billion dollar corporation are the good guys because they say they are is naive. Google are as profit driven as Microsoft or anyone else.

      They collect every search on google that's ever been done. They collect every page hit on a google analytics page. They collect an awful lot of information from Chrome and from google accounts. The fact that they anonymize it doesn't change that, they're still collecting it, and we only have a corporate policy saying that they purge it at all. That's not a contract it's what they say they're going to do, and it can change.

      They can't be doing something nice because they are a publicly traded company worth several billion dollars. They are legally obligated just like everyone else to maximize shareholder value. Providing expensive services "to be nice" is not maximizing shareholder value.

      I'm not specifically saying I distrust them. I'm saying I don't trust them. There's a line in between the two. I continue to use their services because in some arenas they're the best products available and everyone else is collecting your information too.

      Google isn't your friend, they're not the IT guy from down the road, they're a publicly traded multi-billion dollar company, and they're driven by exactly the same motivations as every other publicly traded company.

    31. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      No, thinking that a multi-billion dollar corporation are the good guys because they say they are is naive.

      It's only naive if that's the reason I'm trusting them. It's lame of you to act like that's my reason, because I've explicitly stated why I trust them. Since you missed before, here it is again:

      They have thus far proven trustworthy.

      What does a company have to do to prove themselves trustworthy to you, if keeping their promises over a decade isn't enough?

      I'm not specifically saying I distrust them. I'm saying I don't trust them. There's a line in between the two.

      Not really, in this case. Either you trust them with your data, or you don't; you say you don't, but you immediately turn around and say you use their services, thus proving that you do trust them with your data.

      Using Gmail is trusting Google with your e-mails. Using Google's search is trusting Google with your search history. Etc.

      You either trust Google with your data, or you don't use their services; you can't have it both ways.

    32. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      Or you can accept that everyone is moderately untrustworthy and google's level of untrustworthiness is acceptable so far.

      That said, ChromeOS is starting to cross a boundary, as is potentially this DNS thing. This is my point, they're starting to go a little too far in their data collection, and I'm not happy about it.

      I don't use gmail or google apps, I do use search because there's not really much choice. I occasionally use chrome.

    33. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by chialea · · Score: 1

      To copy from the privacy section of the FAQ linked by the parent:

      > With Google Public DNS, we collect IP address (only temporarily) and ISP and location information (in permanent logs) for the purpose of making our service faster, better and
      > more secure. Specifically, we use this data to conduct debugging, to analyze abuse phenomena and to improve our prefetching feature. After 24 hours, we erase any IP
      > information. For more information, read the Google Public DNS privacy page.

    34. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      Or you can accept that everyone is moderately untrustworthy and google's level of untrustworthiness is acceptable so far.

      That would require a radical shift in (read: complete reversal of) my worldview. I prefer to assume people are trustworthy until proven otherwise; you appear to assume the opposite.

      I trust my (human) friends because they have thus far not broken my trust; I don't see any other way to maintain a friendship. You can't make friends by mistrusting everyone you meet. I don't see why Google should be treated differently.

    35. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Diagnostics?

    36. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by dave420 · · Score: 1

      The sheer number of Chinese folks, I'd guess.

    37. Re:At least they have a clear privacy policy by Eskarel · · Score: 1

      I trust my human friends to.

      That said, google is not human. It might be made up of humans, but it is not human. I cannot express this enough to people. Google are governed by the same laws and the same rules as every other major corporation. They are required to maxmize shareholder value by US law, the exact same way that every other company is.

      That's why they helped with the great firewall of China, that's why they did any number of questionable things over the years. They're not your friends, and they're not doing things out of the pure goodness of their hearts. Even if they wanted to, they're not legally allowed to. They're doing what they're doing because they believe and can apparently convince others, that what they're doing will maximize stockholder value.

      When Intel first put the unique identifiers into their CPUs everyone was up in arms, despite the fact that Intel had never actually done anything to anyone. They were up in arms because a large corporation was getting access to information it didn't need and shouldn't have.

      For some reason everyone seems to think that Google is above reproach that they've never turned anyone into the authorities, or complied with a subpoena, or helped a totalitarian regime oppress its citizens. Guess what, they have. Guess what, they will continue to do so. Why? Because they're a public for profit corporation and that's their legal obligation.

  4. Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by olsmeister · · Score: 4, Interesting

    But it sure seems like they're getting more and more of my personal information lately. What I search for, where I surf to, with my Droid where I navigate to, my e-mails, my documents. WOW.

    1. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by mcgrew · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yeah, Google knows everything about me... except who I am!

    2. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      with my Droid where I navigate to, my e-mails, my documents. WOW.

      How'd you get world of warcraft running on your phone?!

    3. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by TrippTDF · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm not fearful of the current Google, I'm fearful of the Google when we're three generations of leadership down the road and someone with fewer scruples is at the helm. What we need now more than ever is rock-solid privacy laws in this country that put looking at someone's data on par with searching their home... it can be done, but you need to get warrants and have a damn good reason to be doing it.

      There is a lot of amazing advantages to having your data aggregated the way that Google has it, and it's not rocket science to manage the downsides.

    4. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      with my Droid where I navigate to, my e-mails, my documents. WOW.

      How'd you get world of warcraft running on your phone?!

      WoW running in phone

    5. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And exactly who is forcing you to use all these services they provide, and that allow them to collect your data?

    6. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Paul, is that you?

    7. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      Very cool, but of course there are questions about Google's true motivations behind knowing every site you visit.

      They're after me lucky charms!

    8. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Are you sure about that "...except who I am!"??

      You use Google services, such as Gmail, right? Even though you sign up with a bogus Gmail account let say with a bogus name like "John Doe", and you send a personal email to a friend of yours. Your friend replied "Hey Mike". There! Google knows your real name and your IP of course.

      Whenever you go other websites with those Google's AdSense ads or Analytic snippets, you will be identified by Google with the help of that magic numbers called IP address.

      You think you can escape from Google? Think again pal. They know so much about you than you can imagine.

      Google DNS is another way for them to track your movement at the lowest level with more accuracy.

    9. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by Atario · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm hoping the current leadership is/will be smart enough to put some kind of clever legal strictures in place that ties the hands of whoever may run the company after them in such a way as to enforce the "don't be evil" ethic.

      --
      "A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
    10. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by ArsonSmith · · Score: 2, Funny

      "What I search for, where I surf to, with my Droid where I navigate to, my e-mails, my documents. WOW."

      They follow your world of warcraft account? That's going too far.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    11. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by Dan667 · · Score: 1

      I bet they know you typed this comment wearing only your underwear and a t-shirt with a cheeseburger stain on it.

    12. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by mcgrew · · Score: 4, Funny

      Underwear and t-shirt? Why would I need underwear and a t-shirt?

    13. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Actually, I don't use any Google services. I used to, when I ran a web site I had google ads, and I used to use Gmail until they shut off my account, saying I'd breached their terms of service (didn't do anything but email friends, and few at that) without even telling me what I'd supposedly done wrong. Search, images, maps, I use, but that's about it these days.

      I doubt I'll use Google DNS. It probably wouldn't work at work, and my connection at home is fast enough without it.

    14. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      They follow your world of warcraft account? That's going too far.

      Yes, but that's useful too. You'll know when they've fallen off the "don't be evil" wagon when a DNS redirect offers to sell you in-game gold.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    15. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by naasking · · Score: 1

      Ubiquity is the hallmark of success.

    16. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by Deosyne · · Score: 1

      I'm hoping that Google will keep accumulating power until they can go head-to-head with the US government. If I have to have some monolithic entity trying to track my every move, I'm backing the one that actually seems to know what in the fuck it is doing.

    17. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn Ubuntu users.

    18. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by IonOtter · · Score: 1

      "I'm hoping the current leadership is/will be smart enough to put some kind of clever legal strictures in place that ties the hands of whoever may run the company after them in such a way as to enforce the "don't be evil" ethic."

      I see you were born yesterday...

      --
      [End Of Line]
    19. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, I thought the same thing about President Bush... "He only has our best interests in mind..."... but what about 3 generations of presidents after him... Oh, the constitution will take care of that... oh wait...

    20. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Analytics gets a zero in my hosts file. My DNS server is neither ISP nor Google's. The only thing Google gets from me are search query, IP address, timestamp triplets.

    21. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Google knows less about you than most credit card companies do.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    22. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not fearful of the current Google, I'm fearful of the Google when we're three generations of leadership down the road and someone with fewer scruples is at the helm. What we need now more than ever is rock-solid privacy laws in this country that put looking at someone's data on par with searching their home... it can be done, but you need to get warrants and have a damn good reason to be doing it.

      Weird, I thought the same thing about President Bush. I really thought that he had our best interests in mind... but what happens three Presidents down the road... maybe we should write protections into the Consitution. Oh wait...

    23. Re:Don't get me wrong, I love Google. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't want to know what you're doing with that cheeseburger.

  5. Why? by sopssa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But why would one change to use Google's DNS? If you're technical enough and care about such, you're way better off setting up your own recursive DNS server.

    Google is just datamining from DNS requests here, it's another source of information. At least with your own ISP you can reasonably think that theres no datamining going on (excluding US ISP's, of course, who serve ads on non-existing domains for their users anyway)

    1. Re:Why? by slashkitty · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Uh, yeah. Comcast switched ads on non domains.. and i'm sure they are datamining it too. Unfortunately, I trust google more than comcast more than some independent group with open dns.

      --
      -- these are only opinions and they might not be mine.
    2. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, you're not better off. DNS request times improve if the request was already made. By increasing the number of people using the service, you increase the local cache size and increase the speed of the lookup. It's one of the principles behind opendns. Plus this way you don't have to worry about securing a basic DNS resolver and can concentrate on more important things.

    3. Re:Why? by zunger · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because setting up and maintaining your own recursive DNS server is a pain in the ass? (Especially compared to the workload of "here, just change this one setting and it will go faster")

    4. Re:Why? by rpp3po · · Score: 1

      Recursive lookup from by asking the root servers is pretty slow compared to a prefetching resolver, like in the order of at least times 5 to 10. If you never browse new pages it won't make a difference (you'll hit your home server's cache). At least 30% of my daily browsing are new sites found via Google. For those a fast prefetching resolver can really make a difference. And you very probably don't have a prefetching resolver at home, both RAM and bandwidth needed are usually out of reach for home use.

      Actually, I was pretty surprised how good Google's offering sounds. I stopped using about every service except their search due to privacy concerns, but this really sounds quite appealing to me this time:

      In the permanent logs, we don't keep personally identifiable information or IP information. We do keep some location information (at the city/metro level) so that we can conduct debugging, analyze abuse phenomena and improve the Google Public DNS prefetching feature. We don't correlate or combine your information from these logs with any other log data that Google might have about your use of other services, such as data from Web Search and data from advertising on the Google content network. After keeping this data for two weeks, we randomly sample a small subset for permanent storage.

    5. Re:Why? by grasshoppa · · Score: 1

      I know this is slashdot and it's assumed that datamining is bad...but why is it bad? I agree it's wrong when we don't know it's going on, but that's not the case here. Even if google wasn't up front about it, it's google; it's understood that's what they do.

      Why is datamining in this case a bad thing?

      --
      Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    6. Re:Why? by Nadaka · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You know what? If I did what comcast has done with intercepting DNS requests and corrupting DNS responses, I would be committing 2 or more federal felonies, for profit no less. I would like some justice.

    7. Re:Why? by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      "At least with your own ISP you can reasonably think that theres no datamining going"

      W-h-y....seriously if you think a business is not going to collect all the information they can about their customers, you are quite deluded.

    8. Re:Why? by neoform · · Score: 1

      So all a technical person needs is knowhow? If you set up your own dns server, it still has to query another server for it's info..

      --
      MABASPLOOM!
    9. Re:Why? by ickleberry · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I hear this excuse about every type of service. "Look change to to our wonderful new cloud based data mining/advertising supported service and let us do all the work for you"

      But really, I have been running servers of all sorts for years now and the only ones that require any significant amount of maintenance are the HTTP ones due to their content going stagnant (gopher does not count here as its OK to have stagnant content, makes it look more 'nostalgic' if it hasn't been updated in years I suppose)

      A DNS server is pretty much set and forget, to the point where most consumer grade routers have one built in. Yeah sure its not the latest DNSSeC doohickey but i'm sure the next generation will have that

    10. Re:Why? by ModMeFlamebait · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Because setting up and maintaining your own recursive DNS server is a pain in the ass?

      apt-get install pdns-recursor
      echo 'nameserver 127.0.0.1' > /etc/resolv.conf

      Was that so bad?

      --
      Pavlov. Does this name ring a bell?
    11. Re:Why? by sopssa · · Score: 1

      So why is Comcast allowed to do it then?

    12. Re:Why? by Grishnakh · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because it's not a crime when some big faceless company does it.

    13. Re:Why? by bschorr · · Score: 1

      I don't get why I would use Google's DNS instead of OpenDNS - which is what all of my sites use now.

      --
      -B-
    14. Re:Why? by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      But why would one change to use Google's DNS? If you're technical enough and care about such, you're way better off setting up your own recursive DNS server.

      Because it's clearly easier for me to setup my own recursive DNS server than it is to point to 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4. I have better things to do than manage basic infrastructure like that at home. Off-load the little stuff so you can do the big stuff, the work stuff, and the fun stuff.

      Regarding datamining:

      They state very bluntly that IP addresses are expunged from the logs after 48 hours, and that no data is shared with Google Accounts or other Google services. They still get to play with a lot of aggregated data, but this seems like a fairly non-evil way to do it. Good for them. http://code.google.com/speed/public-dns/faq.html#privacy

    15. Re:Why? by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Their pipes, their rules. Feel free to buy service from another last mile provider.

    16. Re:Why? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      I think the difference here is that Comcast most likely has something about this in their contract -- so users have already agreed to it.

      Also, what networks do you have the right to set up a resolver for? Comcast isn't technically "intercepting" anything -- these are requests going directly to their nameservers, that they then decide what to do with.

      Me, I'm using them for the performance boost. I've already got a local cache in the form of dnsmasq, and of course, OSes and browsers probably do some caching of their own. But that initial lookup, I'm getting on the order of 150 ms from my ISP's DNS, and about 30 from Google, for the same query.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    17. Re:Why? by FictionPimp · · Score: 1

      Well, my problem with opendns when I used it was being redirected to search pages for invalid urls. That broke stuff for me.

    18. Re:Why? by silent_artichoke · · Score: 1

      Yep, it's dns turtles all the way down!

    19. Re:Why? by shog9 · · Score: 1

      See, this is why I still visit Slashdot - the subtle sarcastic humor!

    20. Re:Why? by rhathar · · Score: 3, Informative
      OpenDNS doesn't follow the DNS standards, whereas Google's DNS does. From Wikipedia:

      While the OpenDNS name resolution service is free, people have complained about how the service handles failed requests. If a domain cannot be found, the service redirects you to a search page with search results and advertising provided by Yahoo!. A DNS user can switch this off via the OpenDNS Control Panel but will lose content filtering ability. This behavior is similar to that of many large ISP's who also redirect failed requests to their own servers containing advertising. [12]

      In 2007, David Ulevitch explained that in response to Dell installing "Browser Address Error Redirector" software on their PCs, OpenDNS started resolving requests to Google.com. Some of the traffic is handled by OpenDNS typo-correcting service which corrects mistyped addresses and redirects keyword addresses to OpenDNS's search page, while the rest is transparently passed through to the intended recipient.[13]

      Also, a user's search request from the address bar of a browser that is configured to use the Google search engine (with a certain parameter configured) may be covertly redirected to a server owned by OpenDNS without the user's consent (but within the OpenDNS Terms of Service).[14] Users can disable this behavior by logging in to their OpenDNS account and unchecking "OpenDNS proxy" option.[15] Additionally, Mozilla users can fix this problem by installing an extension[16] or by simply changing or removing the navclient sourceid from their keyword search URLs.

      This redirection breaks some non-web applications which rely on getting an NXDOMAIN for non-existent domains, such as e-mail spam filtering, or VPN access where the private network's nameservers are consulted only when the public ones fail to resolve.

      --
      http://www.chaotickingdoms.com
    21. Re:Why? by shog9 · · Score: 1

      The advertising?

      Don't get me wrong, OpenDNS is a nice enough service... But opting out of the advertising is a PitA.

      Also, Google's nameserver addresses are easier to remember. Can you remember the number 8? Good, you can now use Google's DNS anywhere.

    22. Re:Why? by Buelldozer · · Score: 1

      I do it because I don't want to use the root DNS for forwarding.

    23. Re:Why? by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      Thank god someone picked up on that. This *is* Slashdot afterall.

    24. Re:Why? by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      This doesn't seem to work in my Windows 7 system.

      And I can't find a man page on how to get it to work.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    25. Re:Why? by afidel · · Score: 1

      And because most firewalls break the hardening that was done to protect DNS servers last year so to be protected most people need to point at an outside source that can use truly randomized source information.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    26. Re:Why? by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      And when I ordered my internet service from the only provider in town (comcast) I specifically asked the operator about DNS redirects, download caps and forged RST packets. They lied. These verbal terms were what I agreed to, and they violated those terms.

    27. Re:Why? by fnj · · Score: 1

      Because your own caching name server will still suck on the crappy comcast or other nameserver for its feed, it just caches the results. All the fundamental drawbacks are still there (terrible performance, hijacking lookup failures, etc). OK, the terrible performance is mitigated by your cache, but it's still hurting you on every cache miss.

    28. Re:Why? by Lincolnshire+Poacher · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > if you think a business is not going to collect
      > all the information they can about their
      >customers, you are quite deluded.

      ``We don't run any sort of transparent proxies or other systems to covertly log what you do on the internet, and do not sell data to anyone.''

      That's from my ISP. Doesn't yours say something similar?

      If not, change.

    29. Re:Why? by afidel · · Score: 1

      You can opt out of the NXDOMAIN redirects.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    30. Re:Why? by asdfghjklqwertyuiop · · Score: 1

      Because this is America.

    31. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because my ISP uses their DNS servers to block access to sites like thepiratebay.org.

    32. Re:Why? by zunger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That depends on whether you're running a Linux box at home in a "reliable enough" way to be functioning as a server. And in the example you give, as your primary machine as well. While I realize that many /. users do this, I would certainly say that most people don't.

      I actually stopped doing it several years ago. I concluded that I have to maintain enough complex systems at work; I don't see any need to be a sysadmin for a complex system that requires nonstop patching and understanding of 30-year-old system internals at home, too. Plus the desktop environment was frankly primitive compared to modern machines. So I ditched it and started running OS X. (And I should say that I'm an experienced Linux sysadmin and engineer professionally, so this was not the "I don't know how to use it and it appears to have been designed by badgers" issue)

      It's definitely true that, if you're already doing all of the work to run your own system at home, adding a DNS server isn't a big deal. But that's really a hobbyist thing to do. If your home system is primarily for the purpose of getting things done, rather than for playing with systems, it's an enormous amount of extra work. Yet having faster DNS lookups is still a win.

    33. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually Comcast will now just make you watch a failing NBC sitcom when on non-domains.

    34. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know this is slashdot and it's assumed that datamining is bad...but why is it bad? I agree it's wrong when we don't know it's going on, but that's not the case here. Even if google wasn't up front about it, it's google; it's understood that's what they do.

      Why is datamining in this case a bad thing?

      I'll assume there are two broad categories of users in this context. One category doesn't care if every packet they transmit and receive is monitored and datamined by someone, or at least doesn't care about DNS traffic. The second category respects privacy for its own sake and doesn't wish to be monitored by anyone for any reason because they don't consider their online activity to be anyone else's business.

      That latter category cannot help but notice that increasingly clever services and tactics are being used to try and entice them to submit to datamining despite their wishes. It's like the datamining is a hook and the service is the bait on the end of that hook. Google and other companies are putting effort into determining what kind of bait would be enticing enough to get the privacy-conscious to swallow the hook despite their natural reluctance to do so. In this case, it's a potentially high-performance DNS resolver.

      No matter how benign the datamining is, or how non-evil Google may be, it's simply unwanted by large numbers of people. Plenty of us don't care to be watched, monitored, tracked, or analyzed for any reason. It's not how we care to relate to a corporation, particularly a corporation that would be difficult/impossible/illegal for us to scrutinize in equal measure. Rather than respect our wishes, Google continues to circumvent those wishes by attempting to make it more and more tempting for us to sacrifice our principles to get the latest bells and whistles. Today it's a DNS server. Previously it was an e-mail service. Prior to that, a search engine. All of these have the same goal.

      In the big picture, everything is moving towards less privacy and more monitoring. Not everyone considers a DNS server or an e-mail account to be worthwhile in the face of this. This is another case where there is a sort of "tyranny of the majority". The average user is quite clueless when it comes to how data can be gathered, what can be done with it, and what can be learned about users. Until this kind of data is abused on a wide scale to prove it to them, they will remain blissfully ignorant about the arrangement they are entering into and its potential pitfalls. Those clueless masses see only a DNS server or a search engine and do not weigh the benefits of this against the privacy they are sacrificing. Because they seem to be the majority, they guarantee that this trend is here to stay despite even the most incontrovertible objection.

      These companies gather all the data they can on what people do online. It fuels their marketing and provides their main source of revenue. They are doing this on the Internet because computers and networks make it relatively easy to gather this kind of data. They would gladly monitor your physical whereabouts and listen in on any face-to-face conversations you have with anyone if they thought it would make them more money. The only reason they don't do this is not out of the kindness of their hearts, but because it's much more difficult and expensive to monitor people on a massive scale in meatspace. Apparently, however, that's what would have to happen before the general public questions whether the sacrifice of their privacy is worth the success of a particular business model.

    35. Re:Why? by Lars+T. · · Score: 0

      So why is Comcast allowed to do it then?

      Probably because it's in their Terms & Conditions somewhere.

      --

      Lars T.

      To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck

    36. Re:Why? by causality · · Score: 1

      It's definitely true that, if you're already doing all of the work to run your own system at home, adding a DNS server isn't a big deal. But that's really a hobbyist thing to do. If your home system is primarily for the purpose of getting things done, rather than for playing with systems, it's an enormous amount of extra work. Yet having faster DNS lookups is still a win.

      Personally I use MaraDNS. It's configured as a simple caching resolver that queries the root DNS servers. I installed it with my package manager, changed maybe two lines in a text configuration file, and added its startup script to my boot sequence. That's the end of my involvement with it. It just works. Any updates for it are handled automatically by the package manager (along with every other installed package) as part of my regular system maintainence and do not require any sort of manual intervention. Setting it up was maybe a ten minute job, and ever since then it's not something I ever have to think about or tinker with.

      MaraDNS is not unusual in this regard; just about anything other than BIND is this easy to set up and BIND is not much more difficult either, at least not for a simple caching resolver. Incidentally, its adverse security history and the fact that it's overkill for my simple needs are my only reasons for not using BIND. Sorry but because of this, I am having a hard time reconciling that with your statement about this being "an enormous amount of extra work." I may be missing something, or you may have genuinely encountered difficulties that did not happen in my case. Can you explain this discrepancy please?

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    37. Re:Why? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      I think you could make a justified complaint about that. Then again, I'm guessing you did, in fact, sign a written contract, and that's what's going to be legally binding.

      I'm not defending Comcast's choices here, but I don't think they're actually illegal... yet.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    38. Re:Why? by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      If you're technical enough and care about such, you're way better off setting up your own recursive DNS server.

      Being technical enough to do it doesn't mean you're willing to invest the time, effort, and equipment into setting up your own server.

    39. Re:Why? by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why would I invest two hours and a spare machine into setting up my own DNS server when I can spend thirty seconds changing a setting on my router?

      As for maintenance... Why should I invest time updating the software that runs these servers every time a new security vulnerability is discovered? Why should I even have to check for updates, when someone else is doing it all for free? Why should I pay for the electricity to run the additional machine? (You're going to say "run it on your desktop", but what if I dual-boot? Why should my wife's laptop be unable to resolve sites while I'm rebooting or shut down for the night?) And so on and so forth.

      Maybe you like spending your free time dealing with all of that crap. Most of us don't.

      As for "most consumer-grade routers have a DNS server built-in", I'm not sure you know what you mean. Sure, most have a caching DNS server built-in, but they merely defer to your ISP's DNS server when they don't have the address cached, which means you're going to be querying your ISP's DNS servers every $TTL anyway - so if your ISP is redirecting NXDOMAIN queries to ad pages, you're still going to get them.

    40. Re:Why? by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      Sorry but because of this, I am having a hard time reconciling that with your statement about this being "an enormous amount of extra work." I may be missing something, or you may have genuinely encountered difficulties that did not happen in my case. Can you explain this discrepancy please?

      You apparently don't dual-boot with Windows (e.g. for gaming), or if you do you don't care that Windows doesn't use your own personal DNS server. You also apparently don't have any other machines on your network.

      Running your own DNS server on a non-trivial network is a relatively significant investment in time, equipment, or both. Why should my wife's laptop be unable to resolve sites while I'm rebooting or shut down for the night? Why should I have to maintain *two* DNS servers (one in Windows and one in Linux) if I want to dual-boot? Why should I have to set up a separate physical machine to run DNS (to avoid the multi-machine problem), which adds energy and maintenance costs?

      The potential costs of your proposition are far greater than the benefits, especially when someone else (Google) is doing it all for free. And yet you think it's trivial.

      Can you explain that discrepancy, please?

      On second thought, don't bother - you obviously think "it's easy for me in my situation" is equivalent to "it's easy for everyone in every situation".

    41. Re:Why? by cenc · · Score: 1

      I did, but had to go to another country. They only have last KM providers.

    42. Re:Why? by causality · · Score: 1

      Sorry but because of this, I am having a hard time reconciling that with your statement about this being "an enormous amount of extra work." I may be missing something, or you may have genuinely encountered difficulties that did not happen in my case. Can you explain this discrepancy please?

      You apparently don't dual-boot with Windows (e.g. for gaming), or if you do you don't care that Windows doesn't use your own personal DNS server. You also apparently don't have any other machines on your network.

      Running your own DNS server on a non-trivial network is a relatively significant investment in time, equipment, or both. Why should my wife's laptop be unable to resolve sites while I'm rebooting or shut down for the night? Why should I have to maintain *two* DNS servers (one in Windows and one in Linux) if I want to dual-boot? Why should I have to set up a separate physical machine to run DNS (to avoid the multi-machine problem), which adds energy and maintenance costs?

      The potential costs of your proposition are far greater than the benefits, especially when someone else (Google) is doing it all for free. And yet you think it's trivial.

      Can you explain that discrepancy, please?

      On second thought, don't bother - you obviously think "it's easy for me in my situation" is equivalent to "it's easy for everyone in every situation".

      You are correct that I do not dual-boot. My machine just runs Linux all the time; there are no other operating systems installed on it. You are incorrect about it being the only machine on the network. There are several machines on this LAN and the others run Windows. Those Windows machines also use this DNS server. This network is behind a NAT router, so it was as simple as pointing the Windows machines at 192.168.x.x for their primary DNS. My Linux machine is up 24/7 barring the need to occasionally reboot to load a new kernel, but just in case my machine is not running, the Windows machines use the NAT router's IP address for the secondary DNS (the router proxies any DNS requests it receives to the ISP's DNS servers). In practice they don't ever have to use that, but if something should happen to my machine they will still have DNS service.

      This was ridiculously easy for me to set up. Once configured, it has required zero maintainence, so I consider the several minutes to set it up to be a negligible cost, practically zero. Everyone using this network enjoys reliable, responsive DNS service and has done so for years now, which is a non-negligible benefit that we continuously receive. So let's see now, a near-zero several-minute cost and a significantly non-zero several-year/indefinite benefit. Yup, this passes any cost-benefit analysis that would apply.

      You might have a setup that would make this difficult or infeasible in your situation. That doesn't mean it's universally a terrible idea for every person in all cases. Did you notice how my original post never once claimed that everyone should do this just because I do? Did you note that I asked the other guy to clarify instead of automatically adopting a condescending attitude towards him? That's because I never assumed that a solution that works well for me is going to be ideal for everyone else.

      Now, do you care to lose the mock indignation and give me a real reason why you believe I have made a mistake here? If you're done telling me what I "obviously think" based on claims I never made, that is.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    43. Re:Why? by rthille · · Score: 1

      Huh? My djbdns (tinydns/dnscache) doesn't talk to my ISP's DNS servers, it starts at the root and works its way down, just like it's supposed to.

      --
      Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
    44. Re:Why? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Not if your caching name server delegates to the root servers instead of your ISP DNS. But arguably, Google's DNS might still be faster.

    45. Re:Why? by zunger · · Score: 1

      The enormous amount of extra work is in maintaining a Linux server in the first place. (And in learning enough about it for "just editing a config file" to be a small matter, etc)

      Slashdot norms to the contrary, most people don't do this. :)

    46. Re:Why? by zunger · · Score: 1

      And I should say, I'm certainly not saying that nobody should run their own DNS server. Just that for most people, it's not worth the effort.

    47. Re:Why? by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      You basically asserted that you could not conceive of a situation in which it would be difficult to set up and maintain your own DNS server.

      You weren't thinking very hard.

    48. Re:Why? by Zadaz · · Score: 1

      If you're technical enough and care about such, you're way better off setting up your own recursive DNS server.

      Yeah, because going into your network settings and typing two IP addresses is certainly similar to setting up and administering a DNS cache.

      No wonder everyone hates their sysadmins. They try to make everything sound complicated.

    49. Re:Why? by ickleberry · · Score: 1

      i wouldn't waste a whole machine on just a DNS server, less i was trying to heat the room and electricity was free. twould be easier to just block the redirects to the ads i suppose. if you already have a server of some sort or a half decent router that runs linux setting up a DNS server wouldn't take 2 hours

    50. Re:Why? by shentino · · Score: 1

      1. Their wires, their rules.
      2. They are a powerful monopoly so nobody would dare try to stop them anyway.

      Since they own the wires you're using you can't very well say it is hacking.

      It MIGHT though be fraud based on the fact that their tampering is preventing you from obtaining the service you paid for.

    51. Re:Why? by Jugalator · · Score: 1

      At least with your own ISP you can reasonably think that theres no datamining going on (excluding US ISP's, of course, who serve ads on non-existing domains for their users anyway)

      Or they can, and sell this information to advertisers for more targetted ads and added revenue. I'm not sure why random ISP's would be more unscrupolous than Google?

      --
      Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
    52. Re:Why? by thuerrsch · · Score: 2, Informative

      Using dnsmasq, which runs on pretty much any Linux-based router, it's trivial to defeat any OpenDNS evilness. Just add these settings to your /etc/dnsmasq.conf:

      server=208.67.222.222
      server=208.67.220.220
      bogus-nxdomain=67.215.65.132
      bogus-nxdomain=67.215.66.132

      That's it, no more redirects for invalid or temporarily unavailable addresses, respectively. To also stop OpenDNS from interfering with searches initiated via the Firefox address bar, just remove the sourceid=navclient parameter from the keyword.URL string in about:config.

      These simple precautions allow me to use OpenDNS anonymously without ever noticing it -- a real treat in a country like mine, where it's not only ISPs who fiddle with DNS but the government too. That said, I'll give Google's new service a try anyway.

      --
      most of what follows is true
    53. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, what networks do you have the right to set up a resolver for? Comcast isn't technically "intercepting" anything -- these are requests going directly to their nameservers, that they then decide what to do with.

      I have the right to setup and run my home network as I see fit.
      If I choose to use DNS 4.2.2.2, or to stay on topic, if I choose to use Google DNS at 8.8.8.8, then that is my choice.

      When I send a DNS request to 8.8.8.8 and comcast redirects that request to their DNS servers which reply as you say, how comcast chooses.

      By me specifically NOT using comcast DNS and choosing 8.8.8.8, then by comcast blocking that packet and returning a response from their own name servers and spoofing the source 8.8.8.8 so it appears Google responded, they are intercepting DNS traffic (which qualifies as a part of 'anything')

      $ host www.example.com 4.2.2.2
      Server: 4.2.2.2
      Address: 4.2.2.2#53

      Non-authoritative answer:
      Name: www.example.com
      Address: 208.68.139.38

      Comcast even submitted their broken DNS hijacking methods as an official protocol update to the Internet Engineering Task Force

      http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-livingood-dns-redirect-00

      So when comcast admits to hijacking DNS, and has submitted the technical methods they use to do this to become an official standard, "some guy on slashdot" saying comcast is not intercepting anything carries little weight...

    54. Re:Why? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      When I send a DNS request to 8.8.8.8 and comcast redirects that request to their DNS servers which reply as you say, how comcast chooses.

      I'm still seeing roughly the same thing. For example, it's possible to order parental protection, which includes intercepting all outbound port 80 traffic and filtering the content.

      So while I'd hope network neutrality legislation makes this illegal, right now it just makes them bastards.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    55. Re:Why? by Tolkien · · Score: 1

      TFS says exactly why we would want to switch to their DNS, and I for one and switching from OpenDNS to Google as soon as I post this message. I'm currently with Bell Sympatico and they've been hijacking DNS failures.

    56. Re:Why? by grasshoppa · · Score: 1

      You have successfully shown why data mining is bad...for you. However, you failed to show why google's DNS work is bad for anyone other than those that don't like their dns data snooped.

      Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your perspective. I just don't share it. To me, I understand the exchange inherent in google's "free" services, and it's an an exceptable exchange for me. No one is forcing me to use their services, and I can quit them at any time ( you'd have a point if the service was mandatory ).

      For giggles, what kind of abuse do you anticipate? Paint me a worst case scenario, along with what you feel is likely

      --
      Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
    57. Re:Why? by jroysdon · · Score: 1

      That's crap and you know it. No one forces you to use Comcast's DNS servers which they offer in the DHCP lease. You are free to run your own resolver or use any other public resolver (like opendns.com).

      Furthermore, Comcast has an opt out site.

      Are you really that stupid or just playing dumb?

    58. Re:Why? by smtrembl · · Score: 1

      Excuse me but I am not going to set up my own DNS. I have a laptop that I use at many locations, all with slow DNS resolution (Videotron and Bell, anyone?) and Google provides me with a fast, easily accessible DNS that makes everything snappy and doesn't redirect to some stupid ad page when I mistype.

    59. Re:Why? by causality · · Score: 1

      You basically asserted that you could not conceive of a situation in which it would be difficult to set up and maintain your own DNS server.

      You weren't thinking very hard.

      My exact words were: "Sorry but because of this, I am having a hard time reconciling that with your statement about this being "an enormous amount of extra work." I may be missing something, or you may have genuinely encountered difficulties that did not happen in my case. Can you explain this discrepancy please?"

      I noted that my experience was not so difficult and asked him why his was. That's not the same as being unable to conceive of a situation in which difficulties could be encountered. I don't think you appreciate that there are multiple potential difficulties. I could come up with several of them; the trouble is that they'd be imaginary and may or may not reflect his actual experience. Rather than make a guessing game of it, I asked him about his specific situation. This bothers you?

      I wasn't thinking very hard ... or impressing you with my ability to play a guessing game is not among my priorities. You'll have to get over that, or failing that, you'll have to imply that I'm stupid for not proving my intellectual prowess to you (after all, the Earth revolves around you, right?). I guess I'm supposed to feel insulted and try to one-up you. I get it, though I don't think that you do.

      You're capable of realizing that nothing I've said has insulted you in any way or otherwise justified your decision to be a dick about it. This doesn't bother me because it doesn't actually say anything about me. I consider it to be your problem, to be honest with you.

      I appreciate that some people have a strong need for someone else to be wrong so they can feel right. The meaningless pissing contest you've tried to entice me into is just a way to serve that need. I realize that this can be difficult to grow out of, even if you can see that you do it. It provides what you might call a feeling of superiority, or a fake sense of worth for people who can't find the real thing within themselves. Understanding this as I do, I cannot in good conscience go along with it. Instead, I'm pointing it out on the slim chance that maybe you'll appreciate it.

      Anyway, that's enough of this thread for me. The final word is all yours, if having it is significant to you.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    60. Re:Why? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      If only there was another provider. I live a little too far from the exchange for ADSL to be reliable (2.2km) so I have a choice of cable or drop outs every five minutes.

      The city I live in has the second highest population density in the country (first is London). Broadband Britian, you have to laugh.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    61. Re:Why? by holiggan · · Score: 1

      excluding US ISP's, of course, who serve ads on non-existing domains for their users anyway

      I guess you answered your own question :)

      Seriously, I've started using OpenDNS when my lame ISP's DNS started folding for no apparent reason (yes, even the secondary). Net is connected, all up and running, but name resolution, nada...

      So I'm an OpenDNS happy user :) However, I'll give Google's DNS a go :) I doubt my web browsing will be any faster, but I just have to try these new shiny services ehehehe

      --
      "A sysadmin is a cross between a detective, a police officer, a gardener, a doctor and a fireman"
    62. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK, so the same two steps aren't exactly right for OS X. But surely it's pretty straightforward to set up a localhost-only caching DNS there, too?

      Yeah, I fall on the hobbyist side of things. But I can't imagine a reasonably computer-competent person _not_ wanting an always-on server of some sort on their home LAN, whether they run Linux, OS X, or NetBSD on it for various other services.

      And once you've got the server running reliably (regardless of the OS) it should not really be a big deal to set up a caching DNS server. At least not on Linux and NetBSD -- never spent any real time with OS X, but I can't imagine it's that hard...

    63. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The really sad thing is that you were modded up at +5, Funny... )o:

      Not because you , were wrong, though. Quite the opposite...

    64. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If only taxes worked that way... my money, their rules.

  6. Better than Rogers by 56 · · Score: 1

    I'd definitely consider switching to this. Better to have Google know all of the sites I visit than to be constantly redirected to Rogers advertising when I mistype a URL.

    1. Re:Better than Rogers by Lieutenant_Dan · · Score: 1

      That's exactly what I thought when I saw it. I'm changing my systems at home or try to figure to set this at the router level.

      Give it some time, and Rogers will probably block it due to security reasons.

      --
      Wearing pants should always be optional.
  7. 8.8.8.8/4 by Xacid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "To try it out:

    Configure your network settings to use the IP addresses 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 as your DNS servers..."

    Simple enough to remember which is great. Also - could this be used to circumvent some of the internet security at some workplaces where they seem to run a blacklist of specific sites?

    1. Re:8.8.8.8/4 by bmearns · · Score: 1

      Not likely. They'll block by IP with something like Privoxy, not DNS lookup.

      --
      Slashdot is not a game, Slashdot is not a game. Crap, I just lost points.
    2. Re:8.8.8.8/4 by sopssa · · Score: 4, Funny

      Would be interesting to know how much Google paid for those two 256 ranges to Level 3. One would think simple ip's like 8.8.8.8 would cost some nice amount too.

      Or maybe they should had used the coolest ip on the net, aka

      > host 69.69.69.69
      69.69.69.69.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer the-coolest-ip-on-the-net.com.

    3. Re:8.8.8.8/4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "To try it out:

      Configure your network settings to use the IP addresses 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 as your DNS servers..."

      Simple enough to remember which is great. Also - could this be used to circumvent some of the internet security at some workplaces where they seem to run a blacklist of specific sites?

      Not if they dont grant you admin priveleges.

    4. Re:8.8.8.8/4 by dave562 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Anyone running Windows Server as their internal DNS server is probably forwarding DNS requests to an external name server. The workstation DNS settings are most likely controlled with DHCP, and if the admin has half a brain (I know, that's a big assumption), the users don't have rights to change the network settings.

      Most internet security applications are usually proxy servers, or something like a Websense box. Those filter all traffic regardless of where the name resolution takes place. In fact, Websense can be configured to block DNS requests to non-approved / external servers (as can any firewall, etc).

      Do your network admins a favor and use your work computer for work. Don't try to get around their access controls. Most of the time they'd love to give you free access to the internet, but the reality is that they are responsible for keeping Windows boxes secure. That isn't an easy job. What you might perceive as network admin Nazi behaviors is really just them protecting you from yourself... or your co-workers from themselves, etc.

    5. Re:8.8.8.8/4 by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      I'm not familiar with any web filtering solutions which rely on DNS to do the filtering. The ones I've seen either use a standard HTTP proxy or a transparent proxy. If you try and request a resource by IP, they'll block it just the same.

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    6. Re:8.8.8.8/4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "8.8.8.8/4"

      That's a lot of DNS servers.

    7. Re:8.8.8.8/4 by Ruvim · · Score: 1

      8.8.8.8? Would use it just for the IP address :)

    8. Re:8.8.8.8/4 by ChaosDiscord · · Score: 4, Informative

      If your network security relies on limiting DNS lookups, you don't really have any network security at all. You might as well take the house numbers off the front of your house to make it harder for burglars to find your house to break in.

    9. Re:8.8.8.8/4 by AaronMK · · Score: 1

      All an alternative DNS server will do is give you the IP of any work blacklisted sites, where as your work's DNS sever might not. That will not get around work blocking actual communication to those sites. If you really want to get around work filtering, you should set up a secure VPN at home and tunnel through that. It is also great for preventing work from having records of your browsing habits.

    10. Re:8.8.8.8/4 by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Microsoft would have used 6.6.6.6....

      --
      No sig today...
    11. Re:8.8.8.8/4 by chiangovitch · · Score: 1

      opendns.com

    12. Re:8.8.8.8/4 by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Funny, the US Army owns that block.

    13. Re:8.8.8.8/4 by 1000101 · · Score: 1

      Personally, I think 1000101.1000101.1000101.100101 would be a helluva lot cooler Yours truly...

    14. Re:8.8.8.8/4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      However much they pay, it's great that they got this address--I don't plan to use Google DNS in general, but now whenever my DNS goes down I'll know the address for an alternate server...

    15. Re:8.8.8.8/4 by Eil · · Score: 1

      Rate limiting effectively curbs certain kinds of DoS and amplification attacks. It's hardly their only line of defense. RTFM for more info.

    16. Re:8.8.8.8/4 by modestgeek · · Score: 1

      Any sysadmin who is in charge of said filtering is likely blocking all DNS servers at the firewall and only allowing their DNS servers to perform outbound requests. And/or intercepting DNS requests at the transparent proxy and forwarding them to their internal DNS servers which are authorized to perform outbound requests. Not to mention that you need admin privileges to change the DNS servers on your NIC. If you're thinking rogue DHCP server, they can be blocked rather easily using DHCP snooping on the switch.

    17. Re:8.8.8.8/4 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm surprised they didn't go with 4.6.6.4 (Spells GOOG on a phone).

    18. Re:8.8.8.8/4 by mcdonald.or · · Score: 1

      Most places that have decent internet security do not allow the users to modify this type of setting on their PCs. Of those that do, they simply capture every request and retranslate them. Excepting of course for those that just pay lip service to the concept of security.

  8. Yet another privacy risking tool I won't mind usin by Zerth · · Score: 1

    But I doubt it'll be as memorable as 4.2.2.2 for those emergency DNS outages.

  9. It's their logical next step by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    They were limited to knowing only about the sites you searched for, can't have that, bad for business. Now they can track all of the sites you visit. Since Google is our warm fuzzy giant corporation that we can trust, there is no problem.

  10. Re:Yet another privacy risking tool I won't mind u by FooAtWFU · · Score: 3, Informative

    But I doubt it'll be as memorable as 4.2.2.2 for those emergency DNS outages.

    8.8.8.8, 8.8.4.4.

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  11. OpenDNS by SillyWilly · · Score: 2, Funny

    Wow the people at OpenDNS are going to be pissed by this.

    Still 8.8.8.8 is a bit more memorable than 208.67.222.222

    --
    Online & Feelin' Fine
    1. Re:OpenDNS by yakatz · · Score: 5, Interesting

      OpenDNS hijacks Google searches, which could be part of Google's motivation also.

    2. Re:OpenDNS by zlogic · · Score: 2, Informative

      If you register with OpenDNS, you can opt out of the hijacking. Basically turn off all additional services (like malware checking, keywords and typing correction) and OpenDNS works just like any normal DNS server out there. The problem is that you have to submit your IP, or their server's won't recognize you; this can be done either by your router or with a Windows app that periodically submits the IP (not sure about Linux or MacOS).

    3. Re:OpenDNS by sildur · · Score: 3, Informative

      OpenDNS is not hijacking google searches. They simply fix broken google searches.

    4. Re:OpenDNS by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      The only problem is the opt out works according to your subnet address. If your router keeps getting assigned a new address by your provider, then you are so out of luck.

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
    5. Re:OpenDNS by zlogic · · Score: 1

      I think they even had an API, so installing a small background app to periodically update your IP is sufficient. Still, IMHO this should be opt-out by default in the first place.

    6. Re:OpenDNS by shadowturtle · · Score: 1

      They've already posted their response: http://blog.opendns.com/2009/12/03/opendns-google-dns/

    7. Re:OpenDNS by slack_prad · · Score: 1

      They are already!

      --
      Sent from my desktop computer
    8. Re:OpenDNS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The folks at OpenDNS are indeed a little pissy over this.

      My favourite bit?

      Google claims that this service is better because it has no ads or redirection. But you have to remember they are also the largest advertising and redirection company on the Internet. To think that Google’s DNS service is for the benefit of the Internet would be naive. They know there is value in controlling more of your Internet experience and I would expect them to explore that fully. And of course, we always have protected user privacy and have never sold our DNS data. Here’s a link to our privacy policy.

      So, the folks making ads on redirecting failed DNS queries to their site criticises Google for being an advertising company (despite them not presenting any ads on their DNS services), and then implies (wrongly) that Google's TOS allows sale of their DNS data and poor privacy.

    9. Re:OpenDNS by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      That post reads like FUD:

      He implies that Google will sell your DNS data (by not mentioning Google's privacy policy and then mentioning their own). Google's privacy policy explicitly states that a) they purge all IP information after 24 hours, b) they don't sell your data to other companies, and c) they don't even share data with other Google divisions. If the response is "well Google could change their privacy policy", I'll respond with "so could OpenDNS", so that's not a reason to trust OpenDNS over Google.

      He says that Google is doing this to "control your internet experience". If they're giving you valid DNS responses, then they're not controlling anything - especially given that by their own privacy policy they can't share this data with e.g. Google's advertising division. OpenDNS is in just as good a position to "control" the internet experience of its users as Google is, and OpenDNS gives me no reason I should trust them over Google.

      He says... well, I'll quote him:

      it’s not clear that Internet users really want Google to keep control over so much more of their Internet experience than they do already — from Chrome OS at the bottom of the stack to Google Search at the top, it is becoming an end-to-end infrastructure all run by Google, the largest advertising company in the world. I prefer a heterogeneous Internet with lots of parties collaborating to make this thing work as opposed to an Internet run by one big company.

      Even if I'm running Chrome OS querying Google Public DNS to connect to Google Docs, it's still not "an Internet run by one big company". It's "a couple of services run by one company that I happen to be using". Google wouldn't be running all the other hundred servers I connect to regularly. In other words, it's just fearmongering.

      Frankly, I'm more inclined to trust my DNS queries to Google than to OpenDNS - especially since Google's servers are going to be closer to me and more reliable. Google can afford better service.

  12. trying it... by hey · · Score: 1, Informative

    # nslookup
    > server 8.8.8.8
    Default server: 8.8.8.8
    Address: 8.8.8.8#53
    > slashdot.org
    Server: 8.8.8.8
    Address: 8.8.8.8#53

    Non-authoritative answer:
    Name: slashdot.org
    Address: 216.34.181.45

    1. Re:trying it... by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 5, Informative

      disregard that, I suck cocks.

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    2. Re:trying it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's hilarious that that's modded as 'Informative'.

    3. Re:trying it... by asserted · · Score: 1

      funny business as in what? have you confused server's address with the reply?

      Non-authoritative answer:
      Name: slashdot.org
      Address: 216.34.181.45

      this is a perfectly correct reply: 216.34.181.45 belongs to sourceforge and is the right IP address for slashdot.org

    4. Re:trying it... by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 1

      You are correct, it's not funny at all. The issue here is I did not have enough coffee today.

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    5. Re:trying it... by Phroggy · · Score: 2, Informative
      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    6. Re:trying it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's hilarious that that's modded as 'Informative'.

      How could the moderators know that the post was informative? Well, it did write cocks in plural. (Does this mean the way to get a +5 informative post is to suck the cocks of the moderators? Eeew)

  13. Not everyday by dmayle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Forget everyday use, but on public wifi, I'm all about this!

    1. Re:Not everyday by Joce640k · · Score: 2, Informative

      Mod parent up - DHCP on a public node can make dragons fly out of your nose.

      --
      No sig today...
  14. so? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But it sure seems like they're getting more and more of my personal information lately. What I search for, where I surf to, with my Droid where I navigate to, my e-mails, my documents. WOW.

    fEEL FREE TO OPT OUT AT ANY TIME.

    1. Re:so? by metamechanical · · Score: 5, Funny

      fEEL FREE TO OPT OUT AT ANY TIME.

      They have a great program for that!

      --
      If I had a nickel for every time I had a nickel, I'd be richcursive!
    2. Re:so? by Cwix · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Opensuse 11.2 I just watched it

      --
      You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
    3. Re:so? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The funniest part of that was the throwaway line at the end:

      "Is your child missing out on teen sex parties?"

  15. Questions? by whisper_jeff · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...but of course there are questions about Google's true motivations behind knowing every site you visit.

    No there aren't. You'd have to have been living under a rock for the past decade to have any questions about their motives. It's dead simple - they want to know what people are looking at so that they can better target people with advertising thereby increasing the value of their service. In return for offering various free services, all they ask for is some information on you so that they can better target advertising that interests _YOU_. It's not rocket science - it's just incredibly effective marketing.

    1. Re:Questions? by SKPhoton · · Score: 2, Informative
      You can view the Google Public DNS privacy and logging policies here. (It's nice and relatively short. Very un-EULA-ish.)

      From the page:

      We don't correlate or combine your information from these logs with any other log data that Google might have about your use of other services, such as data from Web Search and data from advertising on the Google content network.

    2. Re:Questions? by bkpark · · Score: 1

      In return for offering various free services, all they ask for is some information on you so that they can better target advertising that interests _YOU_. It's not rocket science - it's just incredibly effective marketing.

      The question is, is there anything that might go beyond marketing?

      To a marketer, my search queries are little more than statistics and I am little more than a statistical point among millions of people. To my enemies and opponents, however, my DNS queries and more traditional Google searches are, well, a gold mine for dirt.

      Will Google stay in marketing or will it, shall we say, expand into "consulting service" for my enemies?

    3. Re:Questions? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Except in this case, they claim your IP will be gone from their logs in 24 hours, and it'll never be associated with anything else you do at Google.

      My guess is, they want broad statistics like the most popular domains visited, maybe even traffic patterns of which domains people tend to go to after which other domains.

      So you're right, the motives are quite transparent. Except in this case, I have no idea why I wouldn't want to participate. It's likely to be a hell of a lot more responsive than my ISP's DNS.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    4. Re:Questions? by nine-times · · Score: 1

      It's dead simple - they want to know what people are looking at so that they can better target people with advertising thereby increasing the value of their service.

      Well it's slightly more complicated than that. They already know what you're looking at and can target advertising. Sometimes they're just working on improving your experience of the Internet so you'll use it more and use it for more things.

      For as long as Google owns the search engine market, increased activity and reliance on the Internet is good for them. They don't need to do excessive data mining on each service in order for the service to be worthwhile for them. They just need a reason to believe that it will somehow drive more traffic to one of their services that include ads, even if it's achieved in a roundabout way.

    5. Re:Questions? by nine-times · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And sorry, but just to complete the thought, there's a very good reason why Google would want to do this even if they don't get any data mining or ad revenue in any direct way: Think about all the other services (OpenDNS or ISPs) that redirect failed searches to their own search page. Every time that happens, that's a search that doesn't go through Google. As far as Google is concerned, you getting a proper response of "This page doesn't exist" is good for them, because they know your next stop will be Google.com.

    6. Re:Questions? by Zatar · · Score: 1

      People keep saying "Google wants" like Google is made up of a bunch of drones who were all brainwashed to think alike. Google has hired some of the smartest programmers in the world. Do you think they all just get hired and then go "yes master, I will try to increase Google's advertising capability"?

      Yes, advertising is the core of Google's success but the majority of their services are created by geeks who just want to do something cool and found a job at a company that lets them do cool things without requiring everything to have an ROI. Many of their programs don't have any use to their advertising business. People keep asking themselves "why is Google doing this?" and since advertising is how Google makes money they always seem to come to the conclusion that whatever they are doing must boost advertising somehow. For the most part Google does stuff because the people working at Google sat down and thought "wouldn't it be cool if someone did this?"

      The DNS service explicitly states that they are keeping information around on a short term basis just for debugging, performance optimization and spoof detection purposes and they are not sharing the data with the advertising team or any other Google program. This isn't making them money.

    7. Re:Questions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think it's that simple. As others have said, their privacy policy specifically states they won't do that. But I think there's a slightly more complicated explanation that explains it better. Google's vision is one where the web experience is fast. So fast that it's difficult to distinguish between the speed of a web application and a desktop application. They've clearly indicated a desire to push web applications over desktop applications, and now they're trying to address everything that makes web applications slow.

      At the moment, DNS is a common source of the delays we see when using browsers. If what I've heard is correct, Chrome will pre-fetch DNS entries for domains in links on the page you're viewing. But the actual DNS queries are still slow unless you hit a cached entry at either the OS level or the ISP level and non-Chrome users have don't get the DNS pre-fetching. If Google believes that their servers can respond quickly and can continually pre-fetch domain resolutions in the background to eliminate the real-time performance cost of a cache miss, there's a definite opportunity to make the web experience feel faster. And the more they can do that, the more people will think about replacing desktop applications with web applications. And the more people do that, the easier it is to inject Google's advertising into those applications.

      It also seems like there's a secondary motivation on Google's part to take a shot at the big ISPs and their attempts to monetize failed domain resolutions. It's no secret that Google has tangled with the big ISPs in both the home bandwidth and the mobile bandwidth arenas, so anything they can do to sabotage the DNS games those companies are playing is something that makes sense for them.

    8. Re:Questions? by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Half-credit. They're trying to make the web faster, but to an extent to further their webapps agenda. Why? That's their playground. If the web is faster (Google DNS, Google's SPDY architecture), you won't rely on that desktop so much for apps now will you?

    9. Re:Questions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...but of course there are questions about BONZI Software's true motivations behind knowing every site you visit.

      No there aren't. You'd have to have been living under a rock for the past decade to have any questions about their motives. It's dead simple - they want to know what people are looking at so that they can better target people with advertising thereby increasing the value of their service. In return for offering various free services, all they ask for is some information on you so that they can better target advertising that interests _YOU_. It's not rocket science - it's just incredibly effective marketing.

      Wait, what?

    10. Re:Questions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google employs people with a very specific mindset... not idiots, but not entrepreneurial either... just technically brilliant in specific areas and willing to get with the program. I've worked with a few ex-Googlers. They're perfectionists with honed skill sets, but they are socially poor. My superiors know just how to work them, which is quite necessary because they are less than capable of putting their work in a wider context. To put it bluntly, it seems that superheroes don't go to work for Google, only brilliant engineers. Why would those with the greatest ideas want to go through protracted hiring process, only to be at the mercy of somewhat cultish businessmen whose ultimate aim is to make money from your labour? For a good salary? No, great minds do not crave money, and can always find lunch because so many are willing to cater for them. Those who have chosen to work for Google are those who have traded their talent for money.

      Everything Google does is about control through information gathering. You will notice in the privacy policy that requests are all recorded permanently, with the exception of specific IP addresses -- any interesting conversation between machines will be recorded in terms of times and endpoints separately by government, as always, which can be matched with Google's records. Even absent this, given the specificity of information recorded with requests, logs relating to usage of the search engine proper could be used to rebuild a history of some person's behaviour around a particular time: observe how much is kept forever.

      (Finally, Microsoft Research has more interesting things coming out of it than Google. As does IBM. These firms both genuinely let people dedicate their full time to academic research, supporting them in their endeavours. They think on much grander timescales than Google, not feeling that every endeavour has to be either something that is deployed or something relegated to a small allocation of employee time and resources.)

    11. Re:Questions? by vitaflo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "My guess is, they want broad statistics like the most popular domains visited, maybe even traffic patterns of which domains people tend to go to after which other domains."

      I'd go further. Given the announcement of Chrome OS, I wouldn't doubt they want to test a huge number of DNS requests and tweak the system to be as fast as possible to speed up Chrome. Google knows latency is an issue with web apps, and is trying to do all they can to reduce this. I think this is just another step in that direction.

    12. Re:Questions? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      Except in this case, they claim your IP will be gone from their logs in 24 hours

      any way to PROVE this?

      thought so.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    13. Re:Questions? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      any way to PROVE this?

      Given that not doing so would be illegal, that's the best proof you're going to get.

      Any way to PROVE your ISP isn't doing the same thing? Or, for that matter, that your ISP doesn't datamine and/or alter all your non-SSL web traffic?

      Thought so.

      Then why do you trust your ISP with these things?

      Probably for the same reason you could trust Google here -- explicit, written privacy policies that would prevent it.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    14. Re:Questions? by rm999 · · Score: 1

      I hope they aren't using the statistics on this stuff for anything important - talk about a vastly biased sampled. The majority of people don't know what DNS is, let alone how to change the DNS server.

    15. Re:Questions? by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      No, but Google has given me no reason to mistrust them, whereas my ISP has given me every reason for mistrust.

      So, you tell me - given the choice, would you rather choose Google or Comcast for DNS queries?

    16. Re:Questions? by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      Except they don't share DNS query information with their ad division, so how does this benefit their ad division?

      By all appearances, this is just a cool thing they're doing for kicks. (Perhaps they're concerned about the DNS query hijacking and want to ensure that somebody is actually following the DNS spec, but that's hardly a bad thing.)

    17. Re:Questions? by Evil+Shabazz · · Score: 1

      Ahh, good point. Granted, I didn't read more than just TFS (mistype in my original post) so didn't see the FAQ you linked. And yes, Google does have a much better honesty record than most companies. But - even if they aren't doing it now, there's nothing to prevent them from doing so in the future.

      --
      Down with the career politician! SUPPORT TERM LIMITS
    18. Re:Questions? by pbhj · · Score: 1

      My guess is, they want broad statistics like the most popular domains visited, maybe even traffic patterns of which domains people tend to go to after which other domains.

      They have billions of tuples showing ordered domain accesses. Would they really get additional revelations from IP addresses showing the same thing?

    19. Re:Questions? by Eil · · Score: 1

      TFA says their main goal is to make the web faster. There's a lot of room for improvement in how DNS is implemented. Right now, Google's resolver service mainly experimental but in the future, they will probably offer it to ISPs and wifi hotspot operators.

    20. Re:Questions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they claim no such thing. they claim that your IP isn't stored in the permanent logs, but the 24-48 hour limit on the temporary logs which do contain your IP is for *each request* and there's no language exempting them from correlating that data with their other data mining efforts.

    21. Re:Questions? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      They'd get them from domains on which they don't (yet) advertise.

      That is, suppose I go from Google.com to Wikipedia, and then hit several pages on Wikipedia. To my knowledge, Wikipedia has no advertising, no beacons, nothing -- Google doesn't necessarily even know that I clicked the Wikipedia link, much less where I went after that.

      With DNS queries, they'd at least know I went from Google to Wikipedia, and from there to some other domain. They wouldn't get the URLs, but they'd get overall patterns between domains, which would supplement what they've got from their actual ads/beacons.

      But all of this is pure speculation. We really have no idea what they're doing.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    22. Re:Questions? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      the 24-48 hour limit on the temporary logs which do contain your IP is for *each request*

      Right. The permanent logs don't have that.

      there's no language exempting them from correlating that data with their other data mining efforts.

      From their privacy policy:

      We don't correlate or combine your information from these logs with any other log data that Google might have about your use of other services, such as data from Web Search and data from advertising on the Google content network.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    23. Re:Questions? by spidr_mnky · · Score: 1

      They already own the search market. The next step, I guess, is to build a bigger, better market place. Diversifying their own tools/skills/assets also isn't a bad idea, and happens to be an overlapping goal, including designing software and offering services, in an effort to make the web/net better. If all's as it seems (always keep an eye out) I'm impressed with this strategy -- and it works out well for me, too. Anything that helps the internet helps google. Better DNS helps their browser, that combination helps users, and users get further "g-this" and "g-that" exposure, and warm fuzzy feelings toward Google.

    24. Re:Questions? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a good point! (I'm from Reddit!!!)

  16. Google was going to hire DJB to make this work by fotoguzzi · · Score: 5, Funny

    but they didn't want too much brilliance all in one place.

    --
    Their they're doing there hair.
  17. Why all the paranoia over Google? by Fished · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Very cool, but of course there are questions about Google's true motivations behind knowing every site you visit.

    Look.. Google's in the advertising and data aggregation business, yes. But ... there is a level of suspicion and fear directed at Google that just seems extreme. Has Google actually done something "Evil" that I missed? Or it is just paranoia? I personally think that it's much more likely that OpenDNS or my ISP would do something crazy with this sort of information than Google.

    --
    "He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
    1. Re:Why all the paranoia over Google? by MozeeToby · · Score: 1

      For me, it isn't so much what Google might or might not do, but rather a question of what Google might be ordered to do. I can hope that given a court order of questionable legality the people at Google will do the right thing and fight it but I have no gaurantee that they will win. They have a lot of data on a lot of people, how long before some government office gets the idea in their heads of demanding a list of every IP/Username that ever searched for the words 'child porn', 'how to make a bomb', or 'how biological weapons work'.

    2. Re:Why all the paranoia over Google? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google may be the biggest NSA front ever.

    3. Re:Why all the paranoia over Google? by MushMouth · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Any intelligence service that doesn't have at least one mole in Google is worthless.

    4. Re:Why all the paranoia over Google? by muridae · · Score: 1

      /. might be the biggest NSA front ever, as well. The NSA is soooo scary, we just never know where they might creep up.

      Seriously, this is a valid reason now days?

    5. Re:Why all the paranoia over Google? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      there is a level of suspicion and fear directed at Google that just seems extreme.

      they have an EXTREME (too much for 1 company, some would argue) amount of OUR data.

      get your head out of your ass. THINK. they want our data for a reason. they are not in this for love-of-fellow-man (no matter WHAT shiny things they 'give' you).

      below the surface, there is undoubtedly a LOT more than meets the eye. I'm just not buying this bullshit about them being 'not evil'. I've seen them from the inside, too and they don't seem all that warm-n-fuzzy to me, to tell you the truth.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    6. Re:Why all the paranoia over Google? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... Has Google actually done something "Evil" that I missed?

      Not yet, but they will. It's only a matter of time. We should probably start a pool on what/when it will be.

    7. Re:Why all the paranoia over Google? by mcrbids · · Score: 1

      Look.. Google's in the advertising and data aggregation business, yes. But ... there is a level of suspicion and fear directed at Google that just seems extreme. Has Google actually done something "Evil" that I missed? Or it is just paranoia? I personally think that it's much more likely that OpenDNS or my ISP would do something crazy with this sort of information than Google.

      Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    8. Re:Why all the paranoia over Google? by lennier · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "But ... there is a level of suspicion and fear directed at Google that just seems extreme. Has Google actually done something "Evil" that I missed?"

      They might have. Would we be able to know, at this point, if they did? Do we still have third parties able to compete with them and provide checks and balances over the information they feed us?

      The problem with Google (and the other big players, such as the social networks) is that they are increasingly *centralising* control over the data we see. In the 1990s, the Net was a very decentralised place. You'd get an IP address, DNS lookup and SMTP from your ISP, a domain name from a domain registrar, web hosting somewhere else, webmail from a fourth place, search from a fifth place... and all of those would be different from your hardware and your operating system... and all this decentralisation kept the big corps mostly honest. There were people like AOL and Microsoft trying for lock-in and vertical integration, yes. Which is why Google initially seemed like a shining knight, a different force. And them funding Mozilla gave us a breathing space from the Microsoft lock-in empire.

      But now Google themselves are becoming the Microsoft of the Web. Not in terms of abusive practices - necessarily. But in terms of edging towards single-provider monopoly power, which gives the *potential* for abusive practices on a huge scale.

      Remember Sandra Bullock, The Net, mid 1990s? Back then it seemed total science fiction because it was really silly to think that any one organisation could get censorship control over the fractious, decentralised Net of that era. It's not so funny now. You could now have:

      * a Google Android phone or a Google ChromeOS device
      * running Google Chrome
      * getting DNS from Google DNS
      * using Gmail for mail
      * using Google Wave for social networking
      * using Google Search for all searching
      * getting their news from Google News
      * buying their books from Google Books
      * doing academic research on Google Scholar and patent searches on Google Patents
      * sharing documents on Google Docs
      * viewing Usenet through Google Groups

      and all of that information is logged, analysed, data-mined and cross-checked by a single organisation answerable to a very few people. And potentially modified in transit.

      Fortunately it's still possible to compare most of what Google tells us with the source websites, so they can't easily change the information we receive. Yet. But they certainly can get a very close-up view of exactly who we are and what lines of knowledge we're interested in, and flick this on to whatever organisation - private, criminal, government - asks nicely enough.

      Centralisation is always scary, because you just. don't. KNOW. what is being done with that data, either coming or going.

      Google's best weapon against paranoia is openness... but what if we end up seeing just the *appearance* of openness and not openness itself?

      For that reason I hope Google never becomes the only information service we use on the Web, and I'm even unhappy with the way we all rely on its search results to such a huge extent. It's a potential choke point in the Net, a single point of failure. Right now it seems okay... but.... loss of alternatives is never a safe place to be. Why has open source search never taken off?

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    9. Re:Why all the paranoia over Google? by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      Google's privacy policy explicitly states that they don't preserve IP address information beyond 24 hours, nor do they associate your DNS queries with any Google account information.

      In other words, they would be completely unable to comply with such a request, because they won't have that data.

    10. Re:Why all the paranoia over Google? by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      they want our data for a reason. they are not in this for love-of-fellow-man (no matter WHAT shiny things they 'give' you).

      Fine... but what have they actually done that's evil? Or better, what are you basing your comment on?

      Generally speaking, having the potential for evil is not, in and of itself, sufficient basis for mistrust. Based on my knowledge of Google's history, I have absolutely no reason to mistrust their stated motives. Do you have information that would be relevant?

      Furthermore, they've explicitly stated that they delete IP address information after 24 hours, they do not correlate DNS queries with any Google account, and they do not share their data with other Google divisions (like the advertising division). Given those restrictions, I can't think of anything "evil" they could do with that data.

      Or do you have reason to believe they won't stick to their own privacy policy? (I don't mean a reason based on paranoia, I mean an actual concrete reason.) If you do, please share.

    11. Re:Why all the paranoia over Google? by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      I'd hardly call DNS resolution "absolute power". "power", maybe, if enough people use it, but if they stick to their privacy policy they can't do much with the data anyway. That is, they can't target ads at you any better, because they won't know who queried what domain name.

    12. Re:Why all the paranoia over Google? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's called astroturfing and it has the stink of MS all over it.

    13. Re:Why all the paranoia over Google? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Has Google actually done something "Evil" that I missed? Or it is just paranoia? I personally think that it's much more likely that OpenDNS or my ISP would do something crazy with this sort of information than Google.

      Google doesn't have to "do" anything with the data... that's what the government is for. See COPA

      They were able to dodge that bullet, but will they (and us) be so lucky next time?

    14. Re:Why all the paranoia over Google? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you've just basically described the opposite of paranoia to be implicit trust, which is utterly ridiculous. there's nothing paranoid about deeming the cost of your privacy to be more than a minor convenience.

    15. Re:Why all the paranoia over Google? by Hasai · · Score: 1

      What you have to understand, Fished, is that we're dealing with people who think than anyone having the temerity to generate a profit is automatically "bad," conveniently forgetting that, unless they live in North Korea, positive income, or *profit,* is what helps them to save up for a car, do the same for a house, squirrel money away for a child's education, invent for retirement....

      Do any of those things apply to you, twits? Well, then it looks like you're "evil," too....

      --

      Regards;

      Hasai

    16. Re:Why all the paranoia over Google? by sydneyfong · · Score: 1

      I think you just described paranoia.

      --
      Don't quote me on this.
  18. The motivation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OpenDNS is hurting them for some reason.

    From que FAQ: "Google Public DNS never blocks, filters, or redirects users, unlike some open resolvers and ISPs"

  19. What's their motivation? by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    Other than discovering new sites for their spiders to crawl and index, what's in it for Google??

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    1. Re:What's their motivation? by natehoy · · Score: 1

      Knowing every DNS lookup you do from your computer, along with your originating IP address so they can tie it to a Google account the first time you log in.

      It's like marketing GOLD, baby!

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
    2. Re:What's their motivation? by Edgewize · · Score: 1

      A competitor to OpenDNS that doesn't hijack the google.com domain results and redirect users to a private server, for one.

      Also they get plenty of high-level aggregate data on website popularity from bookmarks and so forth, which they can't capture from search data alone.

      Ignore the trolls who will spin conspiracy theories about logging individual behavior and tying it to accounts, they expressly deny it in the FAQ and it would open them to so many international lawsuits that they'd have to fire all their engineers and replace them with lawyers.

    3. Re:What's their motivation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually they have a perfectly valid reason for doing this, the same reason they developed google gears, chrome, and now chrome OS; to better the internet. Read through the old comics of when chrome was just announced, read about chrome OS, read about google gears and the recent decision to end it now that HTML5 support has improved (and HTML5 has improved), the common theme here is that they're trying to improve the internet. They're an online entity, they thrive on the internet, what is a better motivation to fix something up than the fact that it's directly related to your own well-being?

    4. Re:What's their motivation? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 4, Informative

      RTFA:

      Google Public DNS stores two sets of logs: temporary and permanent. The temporary logs store the full IP address of the machine you're using. We have to do this so that we can spot potentially bad things like DDoS attacks and so we can fix problems, such as particular domains not showing up for specific users.

      We delete these temporary logs within 24 to 48 hours.

      In the permanent logs, we don't keep personally identifiable information or IP information. We do keep some location information (at the city/metro level) so that we can conduct debugging, analyze abuse phenomena and improve the Google Public DNS prefetching feature. We don't correlate or combine your information from these logs with any other log data that Google might have about your use of other services, such as data from Web Search and data from advertising on the Google content network. After keeping this data for two weeks, we randomly sample a small subset for permanent storage.

      So in other words, for less than two days, their DNS log, and nothing else, will know that a particular request was made from a particular IP. Other than that, they'll know that someone from your ISP, or perhaps from your whole fscking city, made that request -- maybe. I'm guessing they'll be looking at overall trends.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    5. Re:What's their motivation? by lennier · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "So in other words, for less than two days, their DNS log, and nothing else, will know that a particular request was made from a particular IP."

      So they say. You have more than their word for that?

      Oh right. A big US corporation would never lie, even in the service of compliance with national security and law enforcement directives which require them to.

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
    6. Re:What's their motivation? by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

      You have more than their word for that?

      Please provide an example of a resolver which would provide more than someone's word for that.

      A big US corporation would never lie, even in the service of compliance with national security and law enforcement directives which require them to.

      And what about the actual legal requirement that they do what their privacy policy says?

      I'd also like to ask if you have any evidence of Google in particular lying.

      --
      Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
    7. Re:What's their motivation? by dissy · · Score: 1

      So they say. You have more than their word for that?

      Yes, a legal contract called a privacy policy.

      Holds as much weight in court as it does with your current DNS provider too!

    8. Re:What's their motivation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Coming soon, search by IP address?

      Search for any IP, see what sites they've been visiting, number of visits per site, number of direct hits vs. referrer clickthroughs, etc? Combine the Public DNS information with any DoubleClick info obtained by serving ads (don't forget that DoubleClick is part of Google!) and you have the potential for a random-looking, interesting, or embarassing IP address profile.

      Of course, with dynamic IP addresses, this usually can't pinpoint a single individual since some ISP's assign a new IP address with every disconnect/reconnect. With static IP addresses, that will be way different and it will be possible to pinpoint a single individual.

      There may be some good intentions for this but I'm viewing this as potentially the biggest advertiser provided trojan horse available yet.

  20. No IPv6 records :-( by Cronq · · Score: 4, Informative

    They don't publish own IPv6 records via this resolver :-(

    1. Re:No IPv6 records :-( by c_g_hills · · Score: 1

      Nor are the resolvers capable of resolving names in zones served only by IPv6-connected dns servers (for example: mirror.ipv6.chaz6.com.). http://code.google.com/speed/public-dns/faq.html#ipv6

    2. Re:No IPv6 records :-( by Wowlapalooza · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Google has a special "Cluefulness Test" when it comes to IPv6: http://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/. In order to get IPv6 resolution, you need to register the source addresses of your nameservers with them, and claim/prove that you and your provider have "good" IPv6 connectivity to Google. You're also expected to troubleshoot any IPv6 problems that may occur, as opposed to your clueless users bugging Google directly about it.

      If you don't meet those criteria, you're still welcome to use ipv6.google.com for searches, of course. But that's not the whole suite of Google tools/products, and the URL is just not as convenient...

    3. Re:No IPv6 records :-( by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Perhaps thats because the resolve is on ipv4 address space, meant to be responding to ipv4 clients, so returning an ipv4 answer makes sense.

      Now if your request is done on ipv6 address, then google tends to return ipv6 answers from their servers.

      Its all documented on their pages somewhere. Then only return AAAA addresses to clients and servers which have ipv6 addresses.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  21. Slooooowww... by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

    I get 48 to 88ms look-up times.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  22. Benefit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What would be the benefit of this as opposed to using the Level3 DNS servers?

    1. Re:Benefit by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      Rumors abound that L3 intends to shut off public access to their DNS servers at some point.

      No, I have no source, but if anyone else does, please share.

  23. NTP pool & GeoIP by avij · · Score: 4, Informative

    The NTP pool (which probably needs even more NTP servers, btw) was recently changed so that the project's DNS servers return a list of nearest available NTP servers when queried. If you change your settings to use Google's DNS servers, the pool will now respond with a list of NTP servers close to Google's DNS servers, which may not be what you wanted.

    --

    Follow your Euro bills at EBT
    1. Re:NTP pool & GeoIP by NevarMore · · Score: 1

      Don't worry, Google will offer that for free soon also.

    2. Re:NTP pool & GeoIP by robmv · · Score: 1

      then change your ntp configuration to use your country server pool: <country-code>.pool.ntp.org

      If you have more then one client to configure, you must be running a local ntp server already, then change that one

    3. Re:NTP pool & GeoIP by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What sort of NTP servers do they need? I have several locations I can host from (I own a technology services firm) and could provide Stratum 1 services, as several of our NTP servers have GPS receivers attached.

    4. Re:NTP pool & GeoIP by avij · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Any NTP server at any stratum is welcome to join the pool. The only actual requirement is that the server should have a static IP address. The how do I join page has further information. If you already have a functioning NTP server, all you have to do is to log in and add your server's DNS name/IP address and its available bandwidth (for load balancing purposes). I'd say it's a rather simple process.

      --

      Follow your Euro bills at EBT
    5. Re:NTP pool & GeoIP by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Awesome. Away I go adding 6 servers.

    6. Re:NTP pool & GeoIP by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Umm...You are connecting to Google DNS with anycast. Why wouldn't the pool response still be relatively close to you?

    7. Re:NTP pool & GeoIP by Straker+Skunk · · Score: 1

      Since you've got real stratum-1 NTP servers, you could skip the pool altogether and add them to the official NTP time server list.

      AFAIU, the NTP pool is meant more for lower-stratum servers, like users on static-IP cable modems, so your machines wouldn't be doing as much good there.

      --
      iSKUNK!
    8. Re:NTP pool & GeoIP by avij · · Score: 2, Informative

      At the moment, running 'dig @8.8.8.8 pool.ntp.org' gives me servers that are across the pond, ie. not relatively close to me. This particular 8.8.8.8 DNS server instance seems to be physically close to me, but based on the responses it gives me, it still acts like it's in the U.S.

      Even though there may be several Google DNS servers around the world, I'd guess they're interconnected so they share the same cache. Obviously Google could choose to have a global cache for most domains, but have a local cache for some domains. Whether this is going to be implemented or not remains to be seen..

      --

      Follow your Euro bills at EBT
    9. Re:NTP pool & GeoIP by avij · · Score: 1

      It's true that the majority of NTP servers in the pool are stratum 2 or stratum 3. However, there are already some 120 stratum 1 servers in the pool, so adding a few more stratum 1 servers wouldn't be particularly unusual.

      --

      Follow your Euro bills at EBT
    10. Re:NTP pool & GeoIP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1647302, discussed at http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/11/07/199256

      Stupid DNS Tricks
      The first widespread form of DNS lie was to treat DNS lookups as mapping requests. CDNs (content distribution networks) such as Akamai and Web optimizer products such as Cisco Distributed Director treat incoming DNS lookups as opportunities to direct the activities of Web browsers. Using the IP source address of a DNS request, these products and services try to guess the proximity of the requester to each of many replicated content servers. Based on the measured load of each content server's system and network, and on an estimate of each content server's proximity to that requester, a DNS response is crafted to direct that requester to the closest or best content server for that URI domain.

  24. OpenDNS and DynDNS offer more features by EsJay · · Score: 1

    The Google is not providing malware & phishing blocks and parental/SFW controls.
    DynDNS's redirects are honest searches, not ad-choked.
    https://www.dyndns.com/services/dynguide/
    http://www.opendns.com/

    1. Re:OpenDNS and DynDNS offer more features by maxume · · Score: 1

      Next up you can pimp a car with convenient impaling spikes on the steering wheel.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:OpenDNS and DynDNS offer more features by X.25 · · Score: 1


      The Google is not providing malware & phishing blocks and parental/SFW controls.
      DynDNS's redirects are honest searches, not ad-choked.
      https://www.dyndns.com/services/dynguide/
      http://www.opendns.com/

      Setup OpenDNS servers in resolv.conf.

      Go into Firefox.

      Type something in location (URL) bar.

      What is that?

    3. Re:OpenDNS and DynDNS offer more features by bledri · · Score: 1

      The Google is not providing malware & phishing blocks and parental/SFW controls. DynDNS's redirects are honest searches, not ad-choked.

      Personally, I want my DNS server to serve the address of the host I asked for. If that host does not exist, I want to know that it doesn't exist, not get some educated guess about what I meant, or a page of search results. I have no problem that OpenDNS exists, and I think DynDNS is cool for the dynamic access to my non-static IP address. But as far as a free, non-ISP hijacked DNS server goes - Google seems to be providing exactly what I want.

      --
      Some privacy policy Slashdot.
    4. Re:OpenDNS and DynDNS offer more features by EsJay · · Score: 1

      Personally, I want my DNS server to serve the address of the host I asked for.

      Yes, if you want straight-up results, I agree.

      But the filtering is great if you want it. DynDNS offers (in ascending order by restrictiveness) phishing/malware safe, work-safe & child safe options. If the broad categories do not suit, you have dozens of yes/no options for granular control.

    5. Re:OpenDNS and DynDNS offer more features by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DynDNS's redirects are honest searches, not ad-choked.

      Ads or not doesn't change anything. They are still deliberately answering to DNS requests with information they know is incorrect. I don't consider that to be honest.

  25. Why not do both? by FranTaylor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Set up your own DNS server and point it at google's.

    Then you can take advantage of your cache and their cache.

    google could do us a great service by also making it available on some other port, that way we can get around the ISP interception of DNS requests.

    1. Re:Why not do both? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      We put a cache in your cache so you can browse while you browse.

    2. Re:Why not do both? by HalifaxRage · · Score: 1

      where are my mod points?!?

      --
      bomb the us up set someone
    3. Re:Why not do both? by Richy_T · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Definitely this. My ISP changed their upstream provider and *their* network was intercepting requests on port 53. Luckily, I also administer DNS on another network so set up a bypass on port 54. Personally, I think providing false DNS information should count as fraud.

    4. Re:Why not do both? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Soviet Russia?

    5. Re:Why not do both? by Dan541 · · Score: 1

      And identity theft. If I lookup slashdot.org and my DNS goes some were else then it's identity theft. Websites should be able to sue ISPs that do this.

      --
      An SQL query goes to a bar, walks up to a table and asks, "Mind if I join you?"
    6. Re:Why not do both? by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 1

      Do any OSs support this though? AFAIK neither Ubuntu or Windows present an option for an alternate port in the UI. Maybe behind the scenes there's an option (I'm guessing definitely on Linux) but in Windows I have no clue...

    7. Re:Why not do both? by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Caching resolver, not server. Anyhow, why on earth would you do such a thing? The only reason to use Google's resolver is to save yourself the effort of configuring your own. Once you've installed the software, you may as well let it do the work.

      I run dnscache on every PC I have or administer that isn't stuck on Windows.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    8. Re:Why not do both? by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      They are doing it for lookups that fail though. It's like a global typosquat.

    9. Re:Why not do both? by Wowlapalooza · · Score: 1

      Port 54 is assigned by IANA for "XNS Clearinghouse". See http://www.iana.org/assignments/port-numbers.

      It would be safer to pick something that isn't already assigned. If everyone just picked arbitrary ports for their "private" communications, there would be pandemonium. Sniffers also use this registry for displaying packets properly in "user-friendly" formats. The IANA registry exists for a reason.

    10. Re:Why not do both? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They would likely have a cause of action under trademark law.

    11. Re:Why not do both? by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      And if everyone jumped off a bridge...

      If I were having to interact with other parties besides myself, I'd agree with you. In this case, however, there's only me, doing something nonstandard on a nonstandard port.

      If something blows up, I'll drive to a location of your choice so that you can say "I told you so" to my face.

    12. Re:Why not do both? by Wowlapalooza · · Score: 1

      If I had a nickel for every time someone in our enterprise said "it's just for private communication", then next thing I know they're wanting to talk to a business partner, needing firewall rules opened up, name resolution, etc.

      It's just a number. Pick a reasonable one. It's not that difficult...

  26. Re:Yet another privacy risking tool I won't mind u by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So not only as memorizable, but explicitly public, whereas 4.2.2.2 and 4.2.2.1 are both technically being abused when you do that.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  27. Latency: most ISPs should win hands down by olden · · Score: 2, Informative

    RTT to my own resolver: microseconds
    RTT to my ISP's resolver (Speakeasy = no redirect and such): ~21ms
    RTT to Google's: 80+ms
    No-brainer for me.

    1. Re:Latency: most ISPs should win hands down by osu-neko · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Interesting.

      RTT to my ISP's (Comcast) resolver: ~50ms
      RTT to Google's resolver: ~30ms

      No-brainer here, too. Also, Comcast sucks... (but you already knew that...)

      --
      "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
    2. Re:Latency: most ISPs should win hands down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Discovering that the resolved target is already slashdotted... priceless.

    3. Re:Latency: most ISPs should win hands down by Killotron · · Score: 0

      Performed the same test. Received similar results. Unless your ISP's DNS presents you with issues (e.g. redirects, slow response time, downtime), it's probably the fastest option. If you are concerned with privacy issues, then your ISP is once again your best choice, since they already know what sites you visit.

    4. Re:Latency: most ISPs should win hands down by svtdragon · · Score: 1

      I think that while the latency is certainly an issue, I wonder how much it's offset by their asynchronous caching w/theoretically fewer cache misses. Do you know what a typical (this is the internet, so "average" is a bad word to use) increase in the time it takes to get a page when it's hit vs. missed in the cache is? I'd be interested to see how this compares to the latency issue.

      Caching is, after all, the whole idea.

    5. Re:Latency: most ISPs should win hands down by PRMan · · Score: 1

      Are you sure? Even though they are farther from us than our own resolver or ISP, they probably have a MUCH larger cache, which ensures that they won't then in turn do a lookup which you have to wait for.

      My experience with it so far today at work is that it appears to be much faster than our ISPs DNS, with several pages appearing instantly that have never appeared instantly before.

      Distance to the service is not the only variable involved.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    6. Re:Latency: most ISPs should win hands down by qmaqdk · · Score: 1

      RTT to my own resolver: microseconds...

      Wow! What kind of pipe do you have?

      --
      My UID is prime. Hah!
    7. Re:Latency: most ISPs should win hands down by afidel · · Score: 1

      I'm on an AT&T DS3 here at work, average times:
      AT&T provided DNS 15ms
      Google provided DNS 21ms
      L3 DNS 9ms
      Of course both L3 and the AT&T resolvers have occurrences where they start returning results at near the timeout value of our server so if our usage slips under the Google DDoS threshold then it might actually be faster for worst case and depending on the amount of difference in cache size even average case.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    8. Re:Latency: most ISPs should win hands down by drsparkly · · Score: 1

      Same problem I have with OpenDNS - being from Australia, the physical location of the servers is an issue here.

      Besides, my ISP doesn't do anything evil with its DNS servers.

      Can't see the point of this Google.

    9. Re:Latency: most ISPs should win hands down by caluml · · Score: 1

      Wow! What kind of pipe do you have?

      A really short one?

    10. Re:Latency: most ISPs should win hands down by omnichad · · Score: 1

      My guess is FTL cable.

    11. Re:Latency: most ISPs should win hands down by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      well a reasonablly fast easy to remember public dns server is a boon for those of us who want to get a machine online quickly and don't know offhand what dns servers are availible on the network, yeah there was opendns but they do some weird stuff and the 4.2.2.x servers while functional are not really meant to be public afaict and are often very slow.

      It's also useful for those whose ISPs dns servers suck (either doing stupid shit or simply being slow.

      Also they are doing some clever stuff related to caching which should hopefully reduce cache misses (dns cache misses can be very time consuming depending on where the authoritive servers are and how long the chain is).

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    12. Re:Latency: most ISPs should win hands down by http · · Score: 1

      If you don't know offhand what DNS servers are available on the network, and there's no DHCP server to tell you, there's a good chance you're not authorized to add nodes to that network in the first place.

      Mind you, I've often set up a caching nameserver on localhost due to nincompoop-run ISPs.

      --
      If opportunity came disguised as temptation, one knock would be enough.
      3^2 * 67^1 * 977^1
    13. Re:Latency: most ISPs should win hands down by sydneyfong · · Score: 1

      They have different servers distributed around the globe.

      I'm in Hong Kong, and pings to 8.8.8.8 have ~ 40ms latency, which implies it's geographically close. Any connection to USA will require latency of 100+ms, due to speed of light limits.

      --
      Don't quote me on this.
  28. and there's the other motive for Google. by FooAtWFU · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you're on $garbage_DNS and you're served an advertisement/search page instead of NXDOMAIN, you (or your browser's auto-search) won't search Google. For that matter, just having something like this around will discourage $garbage_DNS.

    Google cares about the Internet. It's where they make their money.

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  29. end game in sight by MrDoh! · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So...
    Google voice first for voice. Last week Gizmo5 for voip and now rolling out their own DNS?

    Looks like all the infrastructure pieces are in place for the mass change of how cell phones are going to work.

    For years I've wondered why we still have phone numbers. With address books stored on the phones to map names (hosts) to phone numbers (ip's).
    With all the phones these days having decent data connections as standard, looks like we're going to get a central way of handling this.
    So my phone contact will be 'Fred@Domain.com' If I send an email with that address, it gets sent to their mail. If I make a call to that address, does the DNS lookup, finds out their phone number (that we can re-configure our end to handle calling home phone or cell phone, and with location based rules on an android phone, you'd be able to automate it as you left your house, it lets the phone DNS know to call the cell phone, then as you get to your desk location, remap to office phone for non-personal calls). All possible as standard.

    We're not going to get phone and choose to have a dataplan, we're going to have phones + dataplans and that's it.
    telcoms industry HAVE to know this surely?

    (personal wish, as calls are made to someone, there's a quick lookup for capabilities of the device you're calling, then popup the choices to make normal call, send a text, allow the webcam to work, or most importantly, present a URL to an MP3 that's YOUR ringtone, so you can set up a theme tune and as you call people, they hear your tune (as long as they've not turned that off))

    --
    Waiting for an amusing sig.
    1. Re:end game in sight by gehrehmee · · Score: 1

      We're not going to get phone and choose to have a dataplan, we're going to have phones + dataplans and that's it.
      telcoms industry HAVE to know this surely?

      There's a catch here.

      I really want a phone that's primarily for data. Data is the normal means of communication. VOIP over data. Text over data. Video over data. The "normal" phone features should be a fall-back emergency measure. What's more, they should be *cheap*. I'm talking $10/month pre-paid-phone cheap, because I'm only ever going to use it when I'm outside the normal data area.

      --
      "You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help" -- Calvin
    2. Re:end game in sight by MrDoh! · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the voice parts will be the fall back, not the primary function that they are now.

      --
      Waiting for an amusing sig.
    3. Re:end game in sight by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      Looks like all the infrastructure pieces are in place for the mass change of how cell phones are going to work.

      Actually, that's a mass change of how phones (not just cell) are going to work, since the FCC is planning a switch from PSTN to all-VoIP.

    4. Re:end game in sight by AndrewNeo · · Score: 1

      I'm not really sure what you're going on about, but the specifications for LTE (4th gen. cellular) use SIP for voice services, which includes both tel:+1234567890 and sip:name@host.tld support.

    5. Re:end game in sight by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      I strongly suspect that even if the infrastructure behind the phone system completely changes (as it has once before with the transition from analog to digital) the end user interfaces and therefore the numbering system will stay the same. Anything else would require massive forklift upgrades for all phone network customers and I can't see that being popular.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    6. Re:end game in sight by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      For years I've wondered why we still have phone numbers.
      The same reason we still have IPV4, transitioning a huge network to a new identification system is an immense PITA. Furthermore unlike IPV4 addresses phone numbers are variable length and while there is a max length set most countries are some way off it so running out of phone numbers is unlikely to happen anytime soon though some countries may need to have somewhat painful (but still less painful than moving to a non-numeric system) restructurings/lengthenings as thier user count grows.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    7. Re:end game in sight by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      I strongly suspect that even if the infrastructure behind the phone system completely changes (as it has once before with the transition from analog to digital) the end user interfaces and therefore the numbering system will stay the same. Anything else would require massive forklift upgrades for all phone network customers and I can't see that being popular.

      I'm not sure that's true; already, there are applications like computer-based internet telephony apps (rather than just POTS gear connected to a box that routes over VoIP), and GVoice that change different parts of "end user interface" for those who adopt them, without requiring what I think you mean by "massive forklift upgrades" of the overall userbase. Even if traditional phone numbers stay in the background, an internet/telephone infrastructure merger might move them further in the background, as smarter phone interfaces become more common -- especially if something that does for phone numbers what DNS does for IP addresses is introduced (which would be transparent to anyone not using it, and still provide access by phone number.)

  30. Re:SPDNSY by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 5, Informative

    everything resolves to Google's proxies.

    Really?

    $ host slashdot.org
    slashdot.org has address 216.34.181.45
    slashdot.org mail is handled by 10 mx.corp.sourceforge.com.
    $ host slashdot.org 8.8.8.8
    Using domain server:
    Name: 8.8.8.8
    Address: 8.8.8.8#53
    Aliases:
     
    slashdot.org has address 216.34.181.45
    $ host 216.34.181.45
    45.181.34.216.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer slashdot.org

    You, sir, are a liar.

    Cue *whoosh* in 3..2.. actually, I still don't get it. Either you're trolling because you hate Google, or there's some obscure joke that I still don't understand. I really don't get how your list of crap it requires (most of which doesn't exist or doesn't apply to DNS) is funny -- are Google known for requiring random stuff like that?

    I mean, they don't even touch NX:

    $ host aoeusnth.com
    Host aoeusnth.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
    $ host aoeusnth.com 8.8.8.8
    Using domain server:
    Name: 8.8.8.8
    Address: 8.8.8.8#53
    Aliases:
     
    Host aoeusnth.com not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)

    That's more than you can say for most ISP-level resolvers.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  31. Slowness by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1

    If google really wants to speed up the browsing experience, they would work on speeding up the slow ad servers.....

    1. Re:Slowness by Gothmolly · · Score: 1

      What are ads ?

      --
      I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
    2. Re:Slowness by PRMan · · Score: 1

      There's an app for that...

      NoScript

      Ad Block Plus

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    3. Re:Slowness by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1

      I use Privoxy. I was thinking more about the poor souls who are still subject to ads.

  32. Meet the new Borg... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...same as the old Borg?

  33. News at 10:00 - Gates to come out of retirement by filesiteguy · · Score: 1

    I'll bet he's re-thinking the concept of writing an OS vs. doing a massive search engine. (Not calling it bing - maybe Life the Universe and Everything.)

  34. ping time still bad.... by datapharmer · · Score: 1

    Well the ping times are still almost twice what they are for the old GTE/Verizon 4.2.2.1 4.2.2.2 and 4.2.2.3

    --
    Get a web developer
    1. Re:ping time still bad.... by omnichad · · Score: 1

      That doesn't guarantee that the DNS responses are equally as lagged. They may even be faster if the cache is large enough or their software is simply faster.

  35. Support for RFC 4398? by Hasai · · Score: 1

    I don't suppose their DNS supports RFC 4398: Storing Certificates in the Domain Name System?

    I'd would *really* like to see Little Billy's stranglehold on SSL broken....

    --

    Regards;

    Hasai

    1. Re:Support for RFC 4398? by Lord+Ender · · Score: 1

      Screw that! I would just like to be able to send encrypted email to people without having to do manual key exchange first!

      --
      A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
    2. Re:Support for RFC 4398? by Fastolfe · · Score: 1

      Why would it not?

  36. Re:Yet another privacy risking tool I won't mind u by Zerth · · Score: 1

    I wonder how they got that nice legacy IP

  37. OpenNIC has been offering this for years now... by pongo000 · · Score: 0, Troll

    ...and OpenNIC has no interest in maintaining records of your visits.

    Google is beginning to get scary.

    1. Re:OpenNIC has been offering this for years now... by svtdragon · · Score: 1

      Did you read any of the comments before you posted? They have a privacy policy explicitly stating they delete personally-identifiable records after 24 hours.

      Hell, who am I kidding? This is /. and not even the *submitter* noticed the privacy page. I found out about it from this article.

    2. Re:OpenNIC has been offering this for years now... by pongo000 · · Score: 0, Troll
      Did you read any of the comments before you posted? They have a privacy policy explicitly stating they delete personally-identifiable records after 24 hours.

      Yes, but in that 24 hours' worth of time, you can bet Google has extracted every last possible drop of information from your queries. And we all know that data aggregration has the scary property of synthesizing "expunged" information from supposedly anonymous data.

      From an EFF report on the dangers of data aggregation:

      Although the most dangerous use of data aggregation is that of the government, data aggregation by private companies is also cause for concern. This is because companies can sell to the government information that it could not legally obtain on its own. Even companies that refuse to do business with the government can be subpoenaed. For these reasons, data aggregation by private companies poses the same risks that data aggregation by the government poses.

    3. Re:OpenNIC has been offering this for years now... by svtdragon · · Score: 3, Informative
      You still haven't read the privacy page, have you? They don't correlate it with search queries or any other data they have from you:

      "Google Public DNS stores two sets of logs: temporary and permanent. The temporary logs store the full IP address of the machine you're using," the company said. "We have to do this so that we can spot potentially bad things like DDoS attacks and so we can fix problems, such as particular domains not showing up for specific users. We delete these temporary logs within 24 to 48 hours.

      "In the permanent logs, we don't keep personally identifiable information or IP information. We do keep some location information (at the city/metro level) so that we can conduct debugging, analyze abuse phenomena and improve the Google Public DNS prefetching feature. We don't correlate or combine your information from these logs with any other log data that Google might have about your use of other services, such as data from Web Search and data from advertising on the Google content network. After keeping this data for two weeks, we randomly sample a small subset for permanent storage."

    4. Re:OpenNIC has been offering this for years now... by rhathar · · Score: 3, Informative

      Except that Google only stores records for 24-48 hours and then deletes them and does not share the data with its ads department or any other Google services.

      --
      http://www.chaotickingdoms.com
    5. Re:OpenNIC has been offering this for years now... by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      Except that Google only stores records for 24-48 hours and then deletes them and does not share the data with its ads department or any other Google services.

      you really believe that?

      and when the feds come knocking, you think that data will NOT be provided, wholesale, any way they want it?

      come on!

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    6. Re:OpenNIC has been offering this for years now... by bledri · · Score: 1

      Except that Google only stores records for 24-48 hours and then deletes them and does not share the data with its ads department or any other Google services.

      you really believe that?

      For the most part.

      and when the feds come knocking, you think that data will NOT be provided, wholesale, any way they want it?

      Sadly, no. But OpenNIC has various anonymizing policies based on the server (from immediate to never) and I didn't find any promises that they'd go to jail so that I didn't have to. Nothing against OpenNIC and I guess some level of anonymity is more likely if you choose the right server and they follow through. I personally can't get that fired up about Google's potential for evil in this case and I'm way more concerned about my ISP. They can track everything and I KNOW they aren't taking any bullets or me.

      --
      Some privacy policy Slashdot.
  38. Nixo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    GOOGLE IS SKYNET!

  39. TorDNS works for me! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why me worry with OpenDNS or GoogleDNS or sumudduh DNS, when I can use TorDNS!

    The tor network is far better than any public DNS.

  40. of course there are questions about Google's true by sofar · · Score: 1

    I can think of one: it allows them to see which websites are popular?

    Or another one: it allows them to match & check advertisement click throughs?

    there's a huge source of information in DNS lookups. The CIA and NSA wants you to use *their* DNS server too.

  41. The formula for /. success by gregarican · · Score: 1

    Google + Apple + Linux - Microsoft - DRM == /. Nirvana. I haven't read up on /. in a few years, but coming back to it seems like catching up on an old soap opera I've missed for a few years. The story lines are much the same...

  42. Maybe They Just Want People To Access Their Site by HannethCom · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I seem to recall that there are a few ISPs that are threatening to block all requests to Google sites because of the bandwidth that is being used. I think it stands to reason that the reason Google is running an free DNS is so that people can still access their sites, no matter what their ISP does.

    --
    Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon what's the difference? All steal money from devs and control with walled gardens.
  43. Questions? by Evil+Shabazz · · Score: 1

    From TFA: "but of course there are questions about Google's true motivations behind knowing every site you visit."

    If you can't answer these questions yourself, you're an idiot. Google is, first and foremost, an ad service seller who base their business on being the best at providing context specified, directed ads. They are, true, a search engine among many other useful end-user apps too.. but their business is ads. So in that context, it's pretty damned obvious why they'd like to know every site people visit (and not just every site they visit via searches). Duh?

    --
    Down with the career politician! SUPPORT TERM LIMITS
  44. 8.8.8.8 by spynode · · Score: 1

    With IP like that who needs domain names ? :)

  45. Google Waypoints by TheModelEskimo · · Score: 1

    Based on stuff like this, Google seem to be looking for ways to exploit (marketing-wise) every step of the interaction between users and Google (or users and Google customers, i.e., advertisers). Their devious secret is that they actually bring improvements as part of the deal. "No more spam for you! We make the internet fun again!" and while everybody's rolling around in that, they are presenting this huge portfolio of collected user data to megacorps around the world. Or anybody who can afford to hire all that data. Which isn't exactly going to be the small bookstore down the street.

    1. Re:Google Waypoints by Fastolfe · · Score: 1

      So Google is telling a bald-faced lie when they say this data will not be used or aggregated in any way outside of DNS, personally identifiable information will be deleted after 48 hours, and only a random sampling of the resulting anonymized data kept permanently?

      http://code.google.com/speed/public-dns/privacy.html

  46. recursive name server by jonpublic · · Score: 1

    I wonder if they will see the kind of occasional attack I see. Our recursive name servers occasionally get very hard by a botnet looking up ridiculous numbers of mx records. I wonder if they will do anything to prevent it.

    1. Re:recursive name server by gregarican · · Score: 1

      Our recursive name servers occasionally get very hard by a botnet

      Mayhaps your recursive name servers should try some saltpeter :-)~

  47. This is all about better tracking for Google by pcause · · Score: 1

    If you use this than Google has access to every single site or service you visit or use, even without the browser. For doing behavorial targetting of ads this is key. Most commercial behavior happens outside of the search engine and on a third party site. This gives them some of the ability to do what the folks at Nebuad wanted to achieve by doing deep packet inspection. If you use Google's DNS, they get to do tracking without having to get an ISP agreement and they'll say that your agreement to use implies consent to use the data "for their own use". SInce their use is to sell ads that can be finely targetted, they are in effect gainig the ability to offer an advertiser "for people who search for camera and have visited newegg or amazon..." or "for people who visit planned parenthood, put up this anti-abortion ad".

    1. Re:This is all about better tracking for Google by Fastolfe · · Score: 1

      This would require that their privacy policy be a bald-faced lie:

      http://code.google.com/speed/public-dns/privacy.html

      Possible, yes, but we've now entered the realm of a conspiracy theory.

  48. no thanks by voodoowizard · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I will still use my free http://www.opendns.com/ servers. The only redirect you get is a search page with is this what you mean. Other than that it will still try and get you where you want to be while also blocking a variety of sites, by your own choosing.

    1. Re:no thanks by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      I will still use my free http://www.opendns.com/ servers. The only redirect you get is a search page with is this what you mean.

      OpenDNS actually hijacks all your Google searches.

    2. Re:no thanks by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      If that's what you want, you're free to use OpenDNS, but personally, if I type in a nonexistent domain, I'd rather get an error instead of an ad-filled "is this what you mean?" page.

    3. Re:no thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would rather have NXDOMAIN returned when I try to access a non-existing domain, thankyouverymuch.

  49. Change DNS settings only in your router? by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    Question: To use Google's DNS service, is it enough to change your DNS settings in your router? Doesn't each computer get the DNS settings from the router, if no specific DNS address has been configured?

    Or, must you use specific DNS settings in each operating system?

    In Windows XP, does the following configuration cause a computer to get the DNS address from the router to which the computer is connected? Start/ Settings/ Network Connections/ Choose the connection/ Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)/ Properties/ General/ Obtain DNS server address automatically/ ??

    1. Re:Change DNS settings only in your router? by SmitherIsGod · · Score: 1

      It is enough to change it in your router or DHCP server if other machines on the network get it automatically.
      Your router normally acts as the DNS server, and forwards requests onto your ISP's or google's.

      smither@ares:~/Documents$ cat /etc/resolv.conf
      # Generated by NetworkManager
      domain lan
      search lan
      nameserver 192.168.1.254

    2. Re:Change DNS settings only in your router? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what kind of question is that? you really must be new here.

  50. ComCast does this re-routing routinely. by crovira · · Score: 1

    And they're going to own NBC.

    I'm looking for it to go up in [internet] flames in about six months.

    Channel 4 already looks like a rinky-dink cable station operation in the NYC market.

    Marry this to ComCast (who'll probably try to block all other stations and multimedia sites with traffic shaping,) and we'll probably all sue the FCC to rescind the decision before the next World Series.

    --
    MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
    1. Re:ComCast does this re-routing routinely. by Dewin · · Score: 2, Informative

      You can opt-out of the Comcast rerouting.

      https://dns-opt-out.comcast.net/

      It's not cookie-based either, it actually disables it for your cablemodem's MAC address.

      --
      Of course nobody reads the FAQ! If people read the FAQ, the Questions wouldn't be so Frequently Asked.
  51. chrome os anyone? by jackflap · · Score: 1

    first thing that popped into my head was that chrome os could default to google's dns for lookups

    this could be just another way to market chrome os netbooks as faster for web surfing

  52. motives by Tom · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Very cool, but of course there are questions about Google's true motivations behind knowing every site you visit.

    Nonsense.

    They want to cut the ISPs and other DNS providers out of their (dishonest) ad revenue streams. For a lot of competitors, this is virtually the only straw left (AOL, anyone? I know at least in Germany if they hadn't forced the marketing of the "Alice" ISP to add such a DNS-misdirect, their portal and search space would be able to count its visits in "hits per hour").

    It hurts their competitors while giving Google an image plus. And the amount of overhead and traffic is neglectable if you already operate on the scale that Google does.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    1. Re:motives by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      I'm betting you're wrong and that there IS a 'data collection and analysis' angle.

      it would be foolish to embark on an expensive exercise like this unless there was a 'we have more of users' data and can be profiling them better' angle.

      like most things, follow the money. google has to be doing this for data-collection purposes.

      and think: if the US wants to data-mine GOOGLE (!) its now one-stop shopping! they get your email, your other services and NOW they get your dns queries. how convenient! and google DOES bend over backwards for ANY 'law enforcement'. not just in bad old china but here, too.

      beware of trojans bearing gifts. never more true than now. if there is a freebie, there's an angle that you are simply not seeing.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    2. Re:motives by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      I'm betting you're wrong and that there IS a 'data collection and analysis' angle.

      Only if you believe their Public DNS privacy policy is a complete and utter lie. Google may be ginormous, but as far as I'm aware, they've never lied in their privacy policies, and they've never given me a reason to think they're going to start lying now.

      if there is a freebie, there's an angle that you are simply not seeing.

      This may be slightly off-topic, but I think that attitude is a little lame. The other day I was playing Champions Online, and I had some spare 18-slot bags. I announced to the zone that I was giving them away for free to the first person who responded. Rather than a bunch of people saying "I want them!", I got a bunch of people saying "what's the catch?"

      Why is it so odd to just be generous? Why must generosity have some hidden motive? Can't a person (or a company) just be nice once in a while?

      If this were Microsoft announcing a free public DNS service, sure, I'd be wary, but Google hasn't given me reason to mistrust them.

    3. Re:motives by Tom · · Score: 1

      it would be foolish to embark on an expensive exercise like this unless there was a 'we have more of users' data and can be profiling them better' angle.

      I question your precondition that this is expensive. As I already said: If you're already operating on the scale that Google does, then adding public DNS servers is what? A thousandth of a percent of your operating cost?

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    4. Re:motives by 12357bd · · Score: 1

      Why is it so odd to just be generous? Why must generosity have some hidden motive? Can't a person (or a company) just be nice once in a while?
      If this were Microsoft announcing a free public DNS service, sure, I'd be wary, but Google hasn't given me reason to mistrust them.

      How much they pay you, to say such a naive and blatant Google apology?

      --
      What's in a sig?
    5. Re:motives by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

      Do you seriously think nobody actually likes Google without being on their payroll?

  53. Pretty sure there's a joke involved. by earnest+murderer · · Score: 1

    I'm just not sure it's a very good one.

    --
    Platform advocacy is like choosing a favorite severely developmentally disabled child.
  54. Dan Kaminsky by ink · · Score: 1

    Countdown to Dan Kaminsky abusing it.... 5.... 4.... 3....

    --
    The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
  55. Timeout by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmmmm, does not seem to work at all:

    ~> host slashdot.org
    slashdot.org has address 216.34.181.45
    slashdot.org mail is handled by 10 mx.corp.sourceforge.com.
    ~> host slashdot.org 8.8.8.8 ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached

    Overloaded already?

  56. Re:SPDNSY by Logic+and+Reason · · Score: 1

    I think the absurd list of requirements (bzip3?) was supposed to tip you off that it was a joke post.

  57. DNWhat? by suso · · Score: 1

    For once its a good thing that most folk don't know anything about DNS.

  58. Cool! by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    My first thought was: "I hope it's a nice, easy-to-remember address..."

    8.8.8.8

    ObCartman: Schweeet

    --
    No sig today...
    1. Re:Cool! by camperslo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Besides 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 it looks like there's 4.3.2.1

      $ whois 4.3.2.1
              Level 3 Communications, Inc. LVLT-ORG-4-8 (NET-4-0-0-0-1)
                                                                                  4.0.0.0 - 4.255.255.255
              Google Incorporated LVLT-GOOGL-1-4-3-2 (NET-4-3-2-0-1)
                                                                                  4.3.2.0 - 4.3.2.255

    2. Re:Cool! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I work for Google. Please don't use 4.3.2.1; it was used during an internal beta but may not continue to work in the future, and currently may not work from all locations. 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 are the only officially supported addresses at this time.

  59. Windows: Ipconfig /all. Linux Cat. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1
    Thanks for your answer.

    I discovered this web page: How To Find Out What My DNS Servers Address Is.

    For windows, it says to run

    Ipconfig /all

    which outputs the DNS server addresses actually being used.

    There are instructions for Linux, also.

  60. Hardly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Ekde vi ne havas la oftan entilecon al klarig vian mesaon skribitan en neklara mortinta lingvo, Mi estas respond al vi en alia mortinta lingvo.

  61. Open mouth, insert foot.... by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    The entire world now knows you don't bother reading articles before posting.

    --
    No sig today...
  62. Not EVERY site you visit by EverlastingPhelps · · Score: 2, Funny

    Technically, they only get to track the sites that you access by domain name. You can always punch an IP address in and circumvent the DNS system. Start memorizing those porn IPs now!

    1. Re:Not EVERY site you visit by chord.wav · · Score: 1

      Yeah, until the loaded page tells flash to load www.dirtycelebrities.com/vids/dana_plato_arnold_jackson_furious_fisting.flv

  63. Google, you tools. by Mish · · Score: 1

    I love this, really. Now when doing DNS testing from any location I can always test using 8.8.8.8, that's a huge benefit to me.

    However, They're telling end-users to "try" their DNS service and giving basic instructions.
    Their geo-location is no-where near complete, for end-users in (for example) New Zealand who follow their instructions they'll have:

    * Pro: A DNS Server that will most likely have nearly all results cached, quicker overall response.
    * Pro: DNS Infrastructure redundency through Google.

    But...
    * Con: A DNS System with higher latency.
    * Con: A DNS System where if using only those two servers (through Googles instructions) when International connectivity dies, so does all your DNS.

    I've moved my home server over to 8.8.8.8, 8.8.4.4, ISPDNS1, ISPDNS2 to negate these issues and provide better DNS service than my ISP.
    I honestly would have expected more from Google, at the very least a geo-location test to ensure they have DNS servers in your "region" before advising to "Try" their system.

    1. Re:Google, you tools. by sydneyfong · · Score: 1

      Are you aware that the fact that there are two ips does not imply two physical servers?

      For example most DNS root servers, even though they only have a single IP each, are distrubted. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_nameserver#Root_server_addresses

      See also the other post I just wrote on more proof.

      --
      Don't quote me on this.
  64. not without running their app by CranberryKing · · Score: 1

    If you have a typical (linksys) router and it grabs dhcp address, I don't know how you can have it registered and update them unless you do it through a workstation/computer. Kind of a flaw in OpenDNS's service I always thought.

    1. Re:not without running their app by zlogic · · Score: 1

      You can install Tomato and it does support OpenDNS registration and updates.

  65. Here's a good reason... by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    I just tried it and it's *WAY* faster than my ISP - simple web pages now appear *instantly*.

    --
    No sig today...
  66. NOT knowing every site you visit. by scorp1us · · Score: 1

    They only know the addresses you resolve. Visitation is a completely different matter. I resolve things without visiting all the time. For instance, ping. or maybe someone visited me and I want to know who they were.

    And if you're so concerned, I don't know why you don't set up a DNS pool and resolve though multiple servers, so none except your local (which may be on your own machine) will know the full picture.

    --
    Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
  67. Go for it... by Joce640k · · Score: 2, Informative

    I just tried it and it's *WAY* faster than my ISP - web pages start loading a couple of seconds sooner than before.

    --
    No sig today...
  68. Google slashes competition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Business logic.

    Apart from data mining, Google sees the opportunity to decrease the ad revenue from any ISP that actually uses DNS redirects. They don't like competition in the advertisement market and they'll do anything to demotivate other companies to enter the market.

    C.

  69. It is not the fastet DNS, at least not for me by WARM3CH · · Score: 2, Informative
    I just run a simple benchmark to see how fast these are. It turns out that Google's DNS is slower than our university's (I'm in Oregon), OpenDNS and L-3.
    • ISP: Cashed Name: 1 ms, Uncached Name: 8 ms
    • OpenDNS: Cashed Name: 5 ms, Uncached Name: 8 ms
    • L-3: Cached Name: 24 ms, Uncached Name: 26 ms
    • Google: Cashed Name: 44 ms, Uncached Name: 48 ms

    I guess for me it's clear: I'll skip it for now.

    1. Re:It is not the fastet DNS, at least not for me by WARM3CH · · Score: 5, Informative

      Oh crap! I reported the Minimum time, not the average! Here is the full report:

      (Min | Avg | Max | Std.Dev |Reliab%)

      My university:
      Cached Name | 0.001 | 0.002 | 0.003 | 0.000 | 100.0
      Uncached Name | 0.008 | 0.060 | 0.225 | 0.065 | 100.0
      DotCom Lookup | 0.181 | 3.984 | 4.203 | 0.633 | 100.0

      OpenDNS (208. 67.220.220)
      Cached Name | 0.005 | 0.006 | 0.008 | 0.001 | 100.0
      Uncached Name | 0.008 | 0.066 | 0.190 | 0.053 | 100.0
      DotCom Lookup | 0.009 | 0.131 | 0.198 | 0.064 | 100.0

      Level 3 (4. 2. 2. 3)
      Cached Name | 0.024 | 0.025 | 0.028 | 0.001 | 100.0
      Uncached Name | 0.026 | 0.071 | 0.206 | 0.056 | 100.0
      DotCom Lookup | 0.025 | 0.081 | 0.191 | 0.058 | 100.0

      Google (8.8.8.8)
      Cached Name | 0.044 | 0.061 | 0.206 | 0.038 | 100.0
      Uncached Name | 0.048 | 0.144 | 0.322 | 0.075 | 97.9
      DotCom Lookup | 0.069 | 0.158 | 0.261 | 0.051 | 100.0

    2. Re:It is not the fastet DNS, at least not for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please retry. A datacenter in Oregon just came up so you should get much faster responses now since you're right there. :-)

  70. Register this connection's addresses in DNS? by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Thanks again for your help.

    Another question: In Windows XP, what does this setting mean:
    "Register this connection's addresses in DNS"

    I found that at Start/ Settings/ Network Connections/ Choose the connection/ Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)/ Properties/ General/ Advanced/ DNS/

    In the same tab, what do these settings mean?
    "Append primary and connection specific DNS suffixes"
    "Append parent suffixes of the primary DNS suffix"

    1. Re:Register this connection's addresses in DNS? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Another question: In Windows XP, what does this setting mean:

      "Register this connection's addresses in DNS"

      It means it tells your DNS server at your router what your hostname is, so that it can resolve DNS requests to that hostname. So if your computer is bigpc, and another computer on the LAN does nslookup bigpc, they get your IP.

       

      In the same tab, what do these settings mean?

      "Append primary and connection specific DNS suffixes"

      "Append parent suffixes of the primary DNS suffix"

      These add your domain name to your hostname. So if you're on a network of dsl.verizon.net, your pc's hostname gets registered as bigpc.dsl.verizon.net (per example above). Don't know which option is which. Don't want to think any more. Hope it answers your questions.

    2. Re:Register this connection's addresses in DNS? by V+for+Vendetta · · Score: 1

      In the same tab, what do these settings mean? "Append primary and connection specific DNS suffixes" "Append parent suffixes of the primary DNS suffix"

      Set the focus to any of these options and hit the F1 (aka "Help") key.

  71. So, are you volunteering? by KingSkippus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So Google fanboism has gotten to the point where people are HAPPY about getting more targetted ads?

    No, but we're smart enough to realize that no one is going to pay out of pocket to provide all the services that Google does for free with no revenue model at all, not even to pay for the infrastructure servers and network necessary to do it.

    I'll make you a deal. Multi-billionaire technology philanthropist that you seem to be, you set up a company to compete with Google, one that provides all that they do and that has exactly zero sources of revenue, and I'll willingly become your fanboy.

    The practical situation is that there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. When Google came along, we were headed towards every web site--especially search engines and directories--pushing out more and more pop-ups, pop-unders, interstitials, graphics-heavy, annoying ads, and they changed that. God forbid any of them actually contribute back to the community in the form of numerous open source projects and free services.

    Google changed all that by providing a much more customer-friendly "less is more" philosophy, and their customers have supported their efforts in a very free market-friendly way. So while you can take potshots at targeted advertising if you want, I honestly can't think of a less obtrusive and relatively harmless revenue model that can support all that Google does and how much they are contributing to advancing technology.

    While I'd love for someone to volunteer to do all that Google does without making money for it, given that that's not going to happen, yeah, targeted advertising is about the least annoying way I can think of to get the bills paid and continue providing service.

    1. Re:So, are you volunteering? by mugurel · · Score: 1

      Personalized ads, fair enough. But i can understand perfectly well that people don't feel comfortable about this. It's so damn uncanny. For me it's more than enough that google search is my 'window to the internet'. I don't need them to store my documents, my mail, my chat, and now my dns lookups.

      Google reminds me of a canyon. Towering walls closing in.

    2. Re:So, are you volunteering? by Bifurcati · · Score: 1

      Fantastic post - absolutely agree!

    3. Re:So, are you volunteering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I'd love for someone to volunteer to do all that Google does without making money for it, given that that's not going to happen, yeah, targeted advertising is about the least annoying way I can think of to get the bills paid and continue providing service.

      Adblock Plus anyone?

    4. Re:So, are you volunteering? by sglewis100 · · Score: 1

      Personalized ads, fair enough. But i can understand perfectly well that people don't feel comfortable about this. It's so damn uncanny. For me it's more than enough that google search is my 'window to the internet'. I don't need them to store my documents, my mail, my chat, and now my dns lookups.

      I have a great solution. Keep using Google search. But don't use Google Docs, Gmail, Google Talk or Google DNS. For me, I will switch to their DNS because Bellsouth's is so unreliable and OpenDNS has a much worse service full of unwanted redirects.

    5. Re:So, are you volunteering? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +5 Insightful just is not enough for your great post!

  72. Not for the Good of Man by duanes1967 · · Score: 1

    I seriously doubt this has anything to do with Google wanting to save the Internet. It is about them seeing what web sites users are going to by mining dns queries. There is a huge amount of marketing data to be had. If they wanted to save the Internet, they would put up some sort of DNS filtering that would knock out all of the Nigerian Princes and Fake-Alert Antivirus programs.

  73. Re:Yet another privacy risking tool I won't mind u by Eric+in+SF · · Score: 1

    Wow, the quadruple good luck Google DNS server!

  74. Good question by Spliffster · · Score: 2, Informative

    For those too lazy to run whois:

    spliffy@localhost:~$ whois gtei.net
    ...
    Registrant:
    Verizon Trademark Services LLC
    Verizon Trademark Services LLC
    1320 North Court House Road
    Arlington VA 22201
    US
    domainlegalcontact@verizon.com +1.7033513164 Fax: +1.7033513669
    ...

  75. Bad things Google has done with information? by Cormophyte · · Score: 1

    I've never personally heard of Google doing anything with people's data that I'd mind terribly.

    Most notably I use their email service, I'll use my Wave account if and when it becomes particularly useful, and I just might use their DNS server because I am pretty tired of my ISP's slow responses. So if they decided to at some point they could do some serious damage to my privacy.

    But up to this point they've only provided services that I find useful and generally superior to other free alternatives and have only asked for statistics and a reasonable amount of screen real estate for ads. I'm definitely not one to trust a company with too much information, but so far that's perfectly acceptable to me.

    If someone can give me a good, currently applicable, practical reason to, though, I'll avoid their DNS like the plague.

  76. Re:SPDNSY by stillnotelf · · Score: 1

    I'm a worried surprised that you think bzip3 is less likely than "rot13 transcryption"...qb lbh abeznyyl ernq guvatf yvxr guvf?

  77. Re:SPDNSY by Logic+and+Reason · · Score: 1

    Ng yrnfg EBG13 rkvfgf!

  78. OpenDNS is faster by ksemlerK · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    Open DNS is still faster then Google.

    C:\Users\*****>ping -a 8.8.8.8

    Pinging google-public-dns-a.google.com [8.8.8.8] with 32 bytes of data:
    Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=82ms TTL=244
    Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=79ms TTL=244
    Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=80ms TTL=244
    Reply from 8.8.8.8: bytes=32 time=81ms TTL=244


    Ping statistics for 8.8.8.8:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
    Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 79ms, Maximum = 82ms, Average = 80ms

    C:\Users\*****>ping -a 208.67.222.222



    Pinging resolver1.opendns.com [208.67.222.222] with 32 bytes of data:
    Reply from 208.67.222.222: bytes=32 time=51ms TTL=53
    Reply from 208.67.222.222: bytes=32 time=48ms TTL=53
    Reply from 208.67.222.222: bytes=32 time=49ms TTL=53
    Reply from 208.67.222.222: bytes=32 time=61ms TTL=53


    Ping statistics for 208.67.222.222:
    Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
    Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
    Minimum = 48ms, Maximum = 61ms, Average = 52ms

    1. Re:OpenDNS is faster by PhreakinPenguin · · Score: 1

      Give it a few days. I somehow doubt OpenDNS would take the load that Google's servers are getting right now. If you listen carefully you can hear the sound of millions of geeks crushing the servers there so they can jump on Slashdot and complain about something.

      --


      My sig of choice is Marlboro
    2. Re:OpenDNS is faster by shovas · · Score: 1

      A lot of people are saying OpenDNS is faster, but I just don't see it. I've been using opendns for a year or two now because my isp does there own hijacking. OpenDNS is randomly slow for me. I've been using Google's dns on all my favourite places and haven't had a hitch and domains I know regularly have problems on opendns show up with no hesitation at all. I'm loving this. And no search/ads pages on missing domains like opendns has is a super bonus.

      --
      Selah.ca. Pause, and calmly think on that.
  79. Better Google than your ISP by Charles+Dodgeson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Google is datamining everywhere and everything already.

    When I first read about this, I immediately thought about datamining. But after another second, I figured that I would prefer Google to have this information than Verizon (where my caching DNS server currently forwards to). It is true that Google is better at datamining, but do keep in mind that whoever is providing your DNS service has the information about your DNS requests.

    Another difference between Google and your ISP is that your ISP knows who you are from your IP address. So they can link DNS resolution requests to specific, named, customers. Google can't do that directly.

    --
    Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
    1. Re:Better Google than your ISP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Aren't DNS requests just simple unencrypted packets which pass through your ISP no matter what?

    2. Re:Better Google than your ISP by Ginger+Unicorn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      it's easier, and perhaps routine practice for your isp to log dns requests to their dns servers, whereas i would have imagined that sniffing packets that are not destined for their servers and logging the contents would be a willful act of wiretapping

      --
      (1.21 gigawatts) / (88 miles per hour) = 30 757 874 newtons
    3. Re:Better Google than your ISP by noidentity · · Score: 1

      When I first read about this, I immediately thought about datamining. But after another second, I figured that I would prefer Google to have this information than Verizon

      What makes you think Verizon isn't doing packet inspection to datamine regardless?

    4. Re:Better Google than your ISP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another difference between Google and your ISP is that your ISP knows who you are from your IP address. So they can link DNS resolution requests to specific, named, customers. Google can't do that directly.

      Never used Google Checkout?

    5. Re:Better Google than your ISP by Reziac · · Score: 1

      Not only that... but seems to me that the datamining could be used to improve their search functions -- track what sort of hits a given IP address gets, under the theory that most people are smart enough to tell when a search result is bogus, so it won't get as many requests. I'm fuzzy on how this could be implemented, but I'm sure if I can think of it, they can too.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    6. Re:Better Google than your ISP by khchung · · Score: 1

      But after another second, I figured that I would prefer Google to have this information than Verizon (where my caching DNS server currently forwards to)

      Dude, all of your traffic are passing through your ISP already, what makes you think they won't log your DNS requests to Google if they found enough people are using it?

      --
      Oliver.
    7. Re:Better Google than your ISP by tftp · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What makes you think Verizon isn't doing packet inspection to datamine regardless?

      It takes leaving a default setting unchanged to have logs of all DNS requests that Verizon's servers answer. The effort spent: zero. The data volume: minimal (only DNS requests.)

      It takes a lot more to inspect all packets (TCP and UDP) that may be related to DNS. It has to be bought, then connected to the main data link(s), then configured to log what you want, then maintained. On Verizon's scale it's some serious money right here.

      Since Verizon is not in datamining business, I don't see why they would want to trouble themselves with such a complex arrangement.

      On top of that, logging users' Internet traffic is not something that Verizon needs to do as part of their usual business. Logs on the DNS server may be easily explained because the server is needed and they need to know what goes wrong when it does. However the packet inspection box has no business reason to be there, and it can affect Verizon's common carrier status.

    8. Re:Better Google than your ISP by Charles+Dodgeson · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Dude, all of your traffic are passing through your ISP already, what makes you think they won't log your DNS requests to Google if they found enough people are using it?

      There is a big difference between keeping logs for a service you are running and doing deep packet inspection. And if our ISPs are doing that, then Google is the least of our worries with respect to privacy.

      --
      Prime numbers are exactly what Alan Greenspan says they are -S. Minsky
    9. Re:Better Google than your ISP by wall0159 · · Score: 1

      "Another difference between Google and your ISP is that your ISP knows who you are from your IP address. "

      If you're logged into your Google account, then Google knows who you are as well.

    10. Re:Better Google than your ISP by adamchou · · Score: 1

      but what I don't get is that DNS entries are cached. So even if Google is datamining this stuff, what good is it other than telling Google how many seconds after a DNS entry has expired did we re-request it. Even then, if a DNS server is using Google's sevice, they might override the default TTL. It just seems to me like datamining DNS requests would give a completely inaccurate concept what actual web usage is like.

    11. Re:Better Google than your ISP by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

      Google is datamining everywhere and everything already.

      When I first read about this, I immediately thought about datamining. But after another second, I figured that I would prefer Google to have this information than Verizon (where my caching DNS server currently forwards to). It is true that Google is better at datamining, but do keep in mind that whoever is providing your DNS service has the information about your DNS requests.

      Another difference between Google and your ISP is that your ISP knows who you are from your IP address. So they can link DNS resolution requests to specific, named, customers. Google can't do that directly.

      Why not set your caching server directly to the root name servers? It works pretty darned well, and you avoid all the redirect, data mining, etc.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    12. Re:Better Google than your ISP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And if anyone thinks their DNS queries are "secure" or anything, forget that. Any ISP can set up a simple packet filter on tcp and udp ports 53 and datamine your DNS queries unless you have an encrypted tunnel to a trusted DNS server somewhere.

  80. Re:SPDNSY by stillnotelf · · Score: 1

    You're right, it is bzip2 not 3 in tar...I guess that's minus geek points for me...

  81. Re:SPDNSY by SanityInAnarchy · · Score: 1

    Maybe. I still don't get why it's funny...

    I guess the biggest reason I replied is, there are entirely too many people who would read that and believe it, without understanding what it all means. Routing everything through Google's proxies isn't that far-fetched.

    --
    Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
  82. faster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Videotron ( in Canada, Quebec) was so slow - this is MUCH faster.

  83. Will there be patent infringement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since they'll now know what I search for *and* all the sites I visit do you think the Google Blackmail application will infringe on Amazon's 1-click patent?

  84. Re:SPDNSY by HeronBlademaster · · Score: 1

    $ host aoeusnth.com

    You must use Dvorak ^_^

  85. citation needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Last I checked, it worked.

    How long does it take to 'turn off public access', if it's been going on for a while?
    Is it a threat? A rumour?

  86. Skynet watches the movies by Tregelen · · Score: 1

    Skynet saw what happened to it in the movies so changed its name to Google to fly under the radar. Be afraid be very afraid

  87. Re:Maybe They Just Want People To Access Their Sit by zenyu · · Score: 1

    Yup, YouTube magically started working for me when I switched my nameserver to not use my ISP as a forwarder. And that is with a business account. Unfortunately, I'm in NYC which according to slashdot-group-think is simply not built densely enough to allow for competition like they have in the places where sheep outnumber people.

  88. and that is worse because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't see what's so bad in having Google know what you have visited today, as they probably already have your (almost) complete list of contacts, emails and online documents. and how is that better than letting your average wet-pants ISP know it instead or, in 90% of the cases, Microsoft know it as well...?

  89. Ping times by Frankie70 · · Score: 1

    For me.

    - ISP's DNS server - 23 ms
    - OpenDNS - 264 ms
    - Google DNS - 367 ms

  90. Rocket Science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have read the expression "rocket science" at least 4 or 5 times during this discussion, and no, nothing that has been discussed here is rocket science. Rockets are not hard anymore! Even my 5 year old kid was able to build one and he launched it on the beach this summer. So just stop it please.

  91. My home ISP redirects Google doesn't. by symbolset · · Score: 1

    So I'll be reconfiguring the home router tonight. It's that simple. Ad services on the search pages aren't just annoying - they're a security risk.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  92. I don't know everything. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    I don't know everything. I thought the DNS address came from the router and not the ISP, but I wasn't sure. I thought possibly an ISP would have some way of forcing control. Apparently that is not common.

    1. Re:I don't know everything. by KD5YPT · · Score: 1

      Technically, when you type in an web address for the first time, your computer/router etc have NO idea where that address it. So what it does is to send that address to a DNS server, which will reply something like "Oh, for this part of this address (like slashdot.org) go to this IP address." Your router/computer will cache that address for a while so it doesn't have to keep asking the DNS and use the IP address to go there, and send the web address over for further information (like for this story slashdot.org/story/09/..., the slashdot.org is likely resolved by a DNS, with the rest of the address resolved by slashdot.org server).

      --
      In US, you can easily buy enough major firearms to wipe out your neighbourhood but a few little fireworks are banned.
  93. Absolutely, thumbs up for google by shovas · · Score: 1

    Most people don't know it but: - Rogers does deep packet inspection and throttling - they transparently proxy all html and can insert an advertisement in any page they wish (when you're near the banwidth limit you'll get notices embedded in your completely unrelated websites they you're at 75% or 90% of the limit). - they hijack dns and put up those horrific search engine + ads pages Thumbs up to google. But, I will curse rogers even more when they find out and start redirecting dns requests back to their own servers. Evil, evil companies.

    --
    Selah.ca. Pause, and calmly think on that.
  94. sorry OpenDNS by akachler · · Score: 1

    I used to use you but how can I resist

  95. Configurating Google DNS by kokoko1 · · Score: 1
    --
    http://askaralikhan.blogspot.com/
  96. David Ulevitch, Founder of OpenDNS by va3atc · · Score: 2, Interesting

    David Ulevitch, Founder of OpenDNS blogs on the issue.

    --
    Candle burns its brightest in the dark
  97. No more monoculture, thanks by 12357bd · · Score: 1

    I have to say: Thanks, but NO thanks.

    Monoculture is bad. Google is trying to bypass/replace internet and open source. Free/open source coders should be start using Affero GPLv3 license in every piece of software (starting by gcc, and the linux kernel) to stop this madness.

    --
    What's in a sig?
  98. DNS and communities... by GNUPublicLicense · · Score: 1

    Some communities have their own DNS. Indeed, emails can nicely be done only with DNS MX records. Hope google will stick to the current DNS protocol. If they want to extend the protocol... it has to be extremely simple to implement and go throught classic normalization processes.

  99. They know most anyway by C_Kode · · Score: 1

    Very cool, but of course there are questions about Google's true motivations behind knowing every site you visit."

    Almost everyone at work practically uses Google to find their site anyhow. Instead of typing the URL into the address bar, they Google site they are going to and click on the link. It's like DNS anyhow for them and Google knows where they are going already!

  100. Data mining is only a secodary motivation by misnohmer · · Score: 1

    Google's main reason for DNS service is to provide a fast responding DNS. Google has been focusing on fast searches and fast responding web pages (they found that users can in fact tell and care about 0.3 vs. 0.7 second response for web page load). Most ISP's DNS servers are horrible in terms of performance. From personal experience, when I moved a couple of years ago I experienced first had the difference. Initially upon moving I did not have time to connect my entire home network which includes own internal DNS servers - I simply pointed the computers at the recommended Verizon DNS. The web searching experience was horrible compared to what I was used to (other members of the family also noticed), especially considering that the new connection was a 25Mbps/15Mbps fiber to the home FIOS solution. After powering up local DNS servers, web surfing was fast again. So why does google care about speeding up your connection (and with their resources, geographic load distribution and such they really can)? Well, they want everything on the web, they want everything to live in the cloud, hence Chromium OS! They want web apps and surfing to appear as applications do in desktop OS's today. Data mining from DNS queries will happen, statistics will be collected before the IP log disappears after 24hrs, but that's only a secondary benefit to google.

  101. Alexa by fulldecent · · Score: 1

    I'm surprised Alexa didn't do it earlier.

    --

    -- I was raised on the command line, bitch

  102. How to configure DNS in Windows XP by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1
  103. Depending on the Country you're residing by mahadiga · · Score: 1

    I'd suggest you pick the best DNS from http://www.manu-j.com/blog/opendns-alternative-google-dns-rocks/403/ or http://www.dnsserverlist.org/indexbeta.php?oby=Q_RTT depending on the Country you're residing.

    --
    I'd like to buy homeland for our 10 million people. http://twitter.com/mahadiga