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Microsoft Invents Price-Gouging the Least Influential

theodp writes "In the world envisioned by Microsoft's just-published patent application for Social Marketing, monopolists will maximize revenue by charging prices inversely related to the perceived influence an individual has on others. Microsoft gives an example of a pricing model that charges different people $0, $5, $10, $20, or $25 for the identical item based on the influence the purchaser wields. A presentation describing the revenue optimization scheme earned one of the three inventors applause (MS-Research video), and the so-called 'influence and exploit' strategies were also featured at WWW 2008 (PDF). The invention jibes nicely with Bill Gates's pending patents for identifying influencers. Welcome to the brave new world of analytics."

259 comments

  1. Well... by cheesybagel · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Bill Gates also used to think his MSN proprietary network paywall would have more success than any silly Internet thingie. What he fails to realize is than in an Internet era, where price information travels rapidly, prices converge towards fixed prices. Not this drivel.

    Isn't this a business method patent?

    1. Re:Well... by jhoegl · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Here is the scenario Microsoft is working on. People will buy their software online, retailers will offer it as well but MS will make them charge more than online citing "expense reduction" due to not having to make physical items. Microsoft will have your information, requiring you to put in your information including job info. They will also scan the web using their search engine to find out if you are "influential" and then based on that sell you the product at an increasingly lower cost. They will be able to do this because they will control the price of all their products and only offer online software via their site. Now do you think it will work? Its possible.

    2. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It think the point of this patent is that those people who are "less influential" will not have the means to tell the world they have been ripped off.

    3. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When you have many "less influential" people talking to each other and complaining about the same thing, you suddenly have an "influential" mob

    4. Re:Well... by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's a business method, but no, it's not a patent. At least, not yet, anyway.

      This one will undoubtedly get, ahem, "Bill-skied". Hopefully, we'll find out what SCOTUS has to say on the matter before it gets examined.

    5. Re:Well... by Tom · · Score: 2, Insightful

      in an Internet era, where price information travels rapidly, prices converge towards fixed prices.

      Sorry, you're 10 years behind. That's the original theory, but capitalism has since evolved away from the silly "free market" concept.

      Or have you seen the price of Windos "converge" in any meaningful way? Have you missed the article a few stories down about price fixing in the LCD market? The many other examples of price manipulations?

      The thing about this patent is that "price information" itself is manipulated. Your price information is meaningless to me, because I can not get it. When the price information is about different prices on the seller side, we as buyers can go to the cheaper seller. But this patent is about changing prices on the buyer side. There's not a whole lot the buyer can do, and since he doesn't have any market reactions available, there's no converging influence.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    6. Re:Well... by shawnap · · Score: 1

      Bill Gates also used to think his MSN proprietary network paywall would have more success than any silly Internet thingie. What he fails to realize is than in an Internet era, where price information travels rapidly, prices converge towards fixed prices. Not this drivel.

      It is not the case that the increasing prevalence of the internet unambiguously hinders price discrimination; on the contrary, it makes some forms of discrimination, like those that rely on information asymmetry, more difficult and some, like loyalty systems and the like, easier.
      Consider the case of Amazon. One one hand, the ability of the customer to buy books online for the same price from any location makes geographic price discrimination by the brick-and-mortar firms much more difficult. Amazon's Kindle, however, makes books relatively non-transferable, making sophisticated complete price discrimination feasible.

    7. Re:Well... by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Or have you seen the price of Windos "converge" in any meaningful way? Have you missed the article a few stories down about price fixing in the LCD market? The many other examples of price manipulations?

      Have you read about netbooks? Originally Microsoft did not even want to sell Windows XP anymore because they wanted to boost Windows Vista sales numbers. Asus releasing the Linux Eee PC netbook was enough for forcing Microsoft to not only continue selling Windows XP, but lowering the price enough to be competitive with the Linux desktops. Market distortions are older than dirt. The "father" of capitalism, Adam Smith, wrote The Wealth of Nations as a protest against mercantilism economics. He specifically mentions cartels as things to be avoided. Also notice that unlike the Windows Vista release, the number of Microsoft promotional offers, rebates, etc, increased a lot for the Windows Vista 7 release meaning they are in fact lowering the product ASP even if they do not specifically say so. Even "official" retail prices dropped.

      The thing about this patent is that "price information" itself is manipulated. Your price information is meaningless to me, because I can not get it.

      The more users there are, the higher the chance price information will leak out. Microsoft does not exactly run a business amenable to these tactics. You are also assuming resale of product is impossible. Most businesses I know running highly differentiated pricing schemes do services, not products.

    8. Re:Well... by BikeHelmet · · Score: 1

      Besides, in some cases services like steam already have the same effect, but without the patent. I'd argue that your influence correlates to how much you watch these places for good deals. The more time you spend, the more likely you are to tell people about it. Thus, you have influence and lower prices, and it occurred naturally without a patent.

      Take a look at this series of events:

      -I see $5 game. (80% off)
      -I purchase $5 game.
      -I tell friends $5 game is good.
      -Friends either buy at $5 or buy at full price because they're too slow. (or wait for another lesser sale)

      Of course...

      -I FRAPS video from game.
      -I put video up on Youtube.
      -People comment that $5 game is good and they enjoyed it.
      -People comment that they didn't know [$SERVICE] had such good prices.
      -Video gets taken down by DMCA because someone was playing crappy music on Ventrilo while being recorded.
      -I buy new $5 game...

    9. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure there are people with that little influence left in a world that includes cheap internet access, blogs, and social sites.

    10. Re:Well... by Phrogman · · Score: 4, Funny

      And their prices will drop accordingly :P

      --
      "The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
    11. Re:Well... by PPH · · Score: 1
      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    12. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For many people, the price of Windows has converged to "free"

    13. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They certainly don't. Even on a relatively closed site like Amazon, people selling the same item offer it at drastically different prices, and Amazon doesn't seem to make even a minor attempt to compete on price except against brick and mortar. There are no ideal model capitalist systems, not even the internet.

    14. Re:Well... by StuartHankins · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And what about people who try to be anonymous? Will the prices for them act as a "list price" -- a price so high no one pays it, except for those unwilling to give up their anonymity? This sounds like bad news.

    15. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right... Prices converge towards fixed prices. BUT ... look at it this way.

      If you have a trend-setter - one who purchases early and often - the gadget freak who must have everything - you want them to have your gadget in their hand as fast as possible. The early adopters get a cost break. Why? Because they are the ones who sit holy-er-then-thou at the airport thumbing away on the latest IPhone or what ever the flavor of the day may be.

      The second tier are the ones who realize - "everyone has one - I must have one too!" These guys pay a premium because - well because they are stupid. The neither need one, nor does everyone have one - but the perceive that they are missing out.

      The last to adopt aren't influencing anyone, but nor are they buying anything that is new in the first year. They guys are un-interesting as they are shopping solely on price and and will typically do-without if it's too expense. That's when YOUR formula comes in and the price bottoms out. It's the first year that is key.

      1. Get the product in use by people who have "influence"
      2. Maximize the price point - after all the price is only going to drop once it's established.

      I'm not saying this is good. Just saying that there is rational behind it.

      -CF

    16. Re:Well... by Anci3nt+of+Days · · Score: 1

      Method Patent or no, it won't overcome the prior art - the Tax department has been doing this for years.

    17. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is this not payola? But I'm a laissez-faire capitalist kind of Influential Guy, so I'll sell anything that uses reputation pricing for 50% of the difference between my cost and the peon price.

    18. Re:Well... by sqldr · · Score: 1

      Hitler was pretty influential.

      --
      I wrote my first program at the age of six, and I still can't work out how this website works.
    19. Re:Well... by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      Bill Gates also used to think his MSN proprietary network paywall would have more success than any silly Internet thingie. What he fails to realize is than in an Internet era, where price information travels rapidly, prices converge towards fixed prices. Not this drivel.

      Actually, I see where this pricing model may succeed. First, if you look at pricing on the web it is all over the map. Even the big payers often have very different prices. Even on Ebay, even where buyers could set a max bid at the lowest price they can buy an item elsewhere, I see people more for items tahn they can at Amazon. I've even seen BIN prices below current bid prices. You would expect all the BIN stuff to go as soon as the bid price reched its price, but I've seen cases where that is not happening (and the sellers had similar feedback so it was not a trust issue). While there may be a number of reasons (buying outside of the area where other retailers ship, for example); it also leads me to conclude buyers do not use teh pricing transparency of the internet to their advantage.

      Second, retailers could serve up different prices once the buyer accesses their pages, so no buyer may see the same price. Price search engines could either be ignored of fed a generic come-on price that changes when the buyer actually hits the retailer's page. The dynamic pricing ability of the web has the potential to revolutionize pricing and raise the margins on products (as well lowering them). Analytics, coupled with near instant data availability, give you the ability to gain real time insight into what's happening in the marketplace. More demand - jack up price until demand drops off, then drop it again.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    20. Re:Well... by Fumus · · Score: 1

      How exactly do you want to be anonymous when you buy something online? It may be easier for downloadable things, but if you want something shipped to you, you need to give them your address and full name.

    21. Re:Well... by Sulphur · · Score: 1

      This one will undoubtedly get, ahem, "Bill-skied". Hopefully, we'll find out what SCOTUS has to say on the matter before it gets examined.

      Do you mean after?

    22. Re:Well... by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Typically, you give your name and address at the purchasing stage, after a price has been agreed upon. So what price do you present to an anonymous browser, or do you force everyone to hand over their personal information before you show them a price?

    23. Re:Well... by Fumus · · Score: 1

      Almost all online stores have user accounts, so guests will view something like pay as low as $5 if you register only to find that after they give away their personal information the actual price is $10.

    24. Re:Well... by StuartHankins · · Score: 1

      Yes, exactly my point.

    25. Re:Well... by StuartHankins · · Score: 1

      That type of pricing is not very helpful, and online stores or storefronts who insist on doing this (Bi-Lo grocery stores are one example) will never get my business. At Bi-Lo many of the prices might as well be retail if you don't agree to give them your personal information and get a card... for example Oreos were $4.50 when they were 2 for $4 or 2 for $5 everywhere else. I didn't know the card was required (the big sale signs say nothing about a card) and got to the register and was shocked. That was my first and last time in a Bi-Lo store, and yes I told them where to place their cookies.

      Fortunately these stores are the minority now, but what happens when everyone demands you information to give you a price? I'm not looking forward to that.

    26. Re:Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This breaks down in markets where information doesn't travel quickly. Notably, markets that aren't the Internet.

      I don't know how in the world he will try to enforce this patent, I mean charging more for things in poor areas has happened plenty already and might as well be considered "prior art".

    27. Re:Well... by sabt-pestnu · · Score: 1

      Not so much a minority in Portland, OR, at least. The biggest three grocers, Safeway, Albertsons, Fred Meyer all have card programs. Some others chains, including WinCo and some Thriftways (independently owned) don't, but they have less coverage than the big three.

      You can call it a "minority of stores" if you include things like 7-11, neighborhood markets, etc.

    28. Re:Well... by StuartHankins · · Score: 1

      Wow, it hasn't reached that point here in SE Florida. Publix is by far the largest and they don't use a card for discounts. Winn-Dixie, Albertson's and/or Food Lion may but they're considered low-quality stores in comparison, even inferior to Wal-Mart (which doesn't use cards either). I also haven't seen anything like this in Whole Foods or local mom-and-pop independent grocery stores. I hope this type of thing doesn't catch on en masse.

  2. Works for me by ironicsky · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hey, works for me... Microsoft gave me a free copy of Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit for hosting a Windows 7 party... I am influencial, I get free software!

    1. Re:Works for me by peragrin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      yes but how much did you actually spend on said party? $100? $200.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    2. Re:Works for me by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Not to mention how many "friends" are now pissed at you 'cause you conned them into buying Win7? :)

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Works for me by Vintermann · · Score: 4, Funny

      The golden rule of multi-level marketing: Although friendship cannot be bought, it can still be redeemed for cash.

      --
      xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
    4. Re:Works for me by gparent · · Score: 1

      If you have friends that can bring their own alcohol and buy their share of pizza, $0?

    5. Re:Works for me by ironicsky · · Score: 1

      Grand Total of $10.00
      I had my PC hooked up to my HDTV in the living room loaded with media.
      it was BYOB, I bought some munchies and pop. People were welcome to screw with my system since there was NOTHING on it other then what I wanted people to see(Brand new build). The rest of the party was having a bonfire drinking.

    6. Re:Works for me by tmosley · · Score: 1

      Honestly, they should have paid you.

    7. Re:Works for me by euxneks · · Score: 1

      Hey, works for me... Microsoft gave me a free copy of Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit for hosting a Windows 7 party... I am influencial, I get free software!

      Is... that like a key party? Do you swap OSes? I sure hope you got a better one than windows 7, she's a total dog.

      --
      in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
    8. Re:Works for me by hack++slash · · Score: 1

      I went to one of those, I got lucky and ended up with Windows 95. Best night of my life!

      *insert joke about W95 always going down on you*

      --
      To do something right, you often have to roll up your sleeves and get busy.
    9. Re:Works for me by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      Better than *her* getting stuck with windows 95. Hell, I can think of ways to get worse uptime, but not many...

      --
      +1 Disagree
  3. Should fail due to prior art. by Sebilrazen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd swear that's what the merchandise bags they give out at movie premieres are. The celebrities get stuff free, wield their influence over those susceptible to influencing who rush out and buy it. $0->$x.

    --
    "There are no facts, only interpretations." --Friedrich Nietzsche.
    1. Re:Should fail due to prior art. by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Reading is some more this seems awfully familiar to multi-level marketing. Enjoy your brand new MS Herbalife overlords.

    2. Re:Should fail due to prior art. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The patent specifically talks about digital goods that can be reproduced at no cost and internet-based social networks. So physical goods and real-world influencers would not be prior art. .. not that I disagree that they should be as the whole thing is marketing 102.

    3. Re:Should fail due to prior art. by daveime · · Score: 1

      Nah, most MLM's involve convincing you become an "entrepreneur businessman" by selling you a tube of toothpaste for $27 dollars. Then, rather than face the fact you just got ripped off, you have to invite your family and friends to "sales meetings" where you can offload the toothpaste to them so that they can become "entrepreneur businessmen" also.

      Basically it means recruiting people for whom money is more important than their closest family and friends, and would happily fuck them over to recoup their losses. Possibly why MLM is so popular in America.

    4. Re:Should fail due to prior art. by Zadaz · · Score: 1

      This sounds like exactly what happens when I go out to eat:

      When I go out to eat at a new restaurant I get regular service and pay 100%.

      When I go to eat as a restaurant I'm a regular at I get good service and pay 90%.

      When I go to a restaurant with a friend who owns a well regarded restaurant I get amazing service and pay %50.

      When I got to a restaurant with the staff of a popular TV cooking show, the owners and chefs come out from the back and do gymnastics and we eat for free.

      Heck, this is already applied to software. Do you think game reviewers pay for their review copies?

    5. Re:Should fail due to prior art. by Sebilrazen · · Score: 1

      When I got to a restaurant with the staff of a popular TV cooking show, the owners and chefs come out from the back and do gymnastics and we eat for free.

      If the chefs come out, who cooks?

      Just kidding, your example is much more verbose than mine.

      --
      "There are no facts, only interpretations." --Friedrich Nietzsche.
    6. Re:Should fail due to prior art. by Zadaz · · Score: 1

      (Yeah, but your is better copy edited than mine. I'm going to have to turn in my proofreader's badge for that one.)

    7. Re:Should fail due to prior art. by nine-times · · Score: 1

      It's true. It's expensive to be poor, and meanwhile the rich and famous get retarded amounts of free shit.

      Sometimes rich people are given free stuff because the vendor hopes it will lead to bigger purchases. For example, you might buy dinner for a prospective client in order to get an account that would net you far more than the cost of the dinner. Or sometimes people give rich people stuff out of a kind of hero worship. But often, very often, the idea is that rich people will influence others through their fame or their contacts.

    8. Re:Should fail due to prior art. by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      Basically it means recruiting people for whom money is more important than their closest family and friends, and would happily fuck them over to recoup their losses. Possibly why MLM is so popular in America.

      China seems to be catching up. Darn copycats.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    9. Re:Should fail due to prior art. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what about amazon's dynamic pricing? sure they have a patent on that already.

    10. Re:Should fail due to prior art. by Pollardito · · Score: 1

      Exactly. They've patented swag. The free stuff that companies send to some magazines and bloggers in return for review posts? more of the same.

  4. Linux users by peragrin · · Score: 1

    Yet another attempt by MSFT to influence Linux users. By charging them triple for the same product.

    I can see this going over like a lead filled ballon. While costs for goods may rise and drive up prices, prices themselves have a way of going down with volume. Of course in a market (software) that doesn't produce physical products pricing is artificial anyways.

    --
    i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    1. Re:Linux users by quadelirus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is not a challenge, just a clarification question: how exactly do linux users factor into this discussion? It seems to be about using information gleaned from social networks to adjust prices in order to maximize product adoption. Also, I wouldn't be so certain this wouldn't be popular. If everyone in your social group wants to be like person X and MS can determine this and give something to person X for free that will cost you and the rest of the group $10, I'm not sure so many people would abstain as a protest. Or at least not more than the gain in revenue seen by the scheme. I think of it like this: when the iPhone came out all the geeks bought them, and then convinced everyone else to buy them. Because of the cult of Apple it wasn't too hard to get tons of geeks to get them and show everyone else how cool it is. On the other hand not as many people were buying Zunes and convincing their non-geeky friends to buy them. What if MS was able to determine the people who had the most influence on their social group's technology buying habits and sent them all free Zunes? It seems like if this could be done accurately it would be an incredibly effective marketing ploy (of course, that is a big IF).

    2. Re:Linux users by peragrin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      simple linux users are the at the bottom of the social ladder. little influence means they have to pay higher.So MSFT has found a way to segregate and separate the general population into a class, pricing structure based who they know. If you can't see how this is bad then you need to open up a history book on class seperation through the ages and the methods used to keep a group of people down.

      Also when the iphone came out it wasn't just geeks buying them. the general masses found an easy to use phone and mobile web browser and the rest was history. People who buy the "iphone killers" soon get disappointed as the interfaces aren't as useful and they grow frustrated at them over time.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    3. Re:Linux users by daveime · · Score: 1

      I'm wondering how many Linux users would actually *be* on a social network, seeing as even a simple thing like Flash is so hard for them to get working ?

      Or maybe MS is doing some fancy data-mining.

      1. Bought a computer ?
      2. Asked for a refund on the preinstalled copy of Windows ?
      3. No profile found on Facebook ?
      4. ???
      5. Linux User Profit !

    4. Re:Linux users by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      The phrase money talks and sh*t walks is true.

      Linux does not have a sales team and therefore is losing the server market.

      Management always buys what the marketing sales teams at proprietary software companies push and they become friends with the sales teams. What is interesting is in the severe recession we are in now is that this approach does not work well. If the budget is slashed to $0 for software upgrades it does not matter what the discount is. Linux actually wins hands down.

      All this shows is perhaps conflicts of interest are involved in giving discounts to purchasers. In the end the employer looses.

    5. Re:Linux users by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I'm wondering how many Linux users would actually *be* on a social network, seeing as even a simple thing like Flash is so hard for them to get working ?

      Please. It's been a few years now since I had any trouble using flash in Linux. Gentoo had an absurd number of hoops to jump through last I used it, but most Linux distros play flash media just fine now after a simple install of libflashplayer.so.

    6. Re:Linux users by Narnie · · Score: 2, Interesting

      simple linux users are the at the bottom of the social ladder. little influence means they have to pay higher.

      I'm not so sure about that. I'm a simple linux user, but as such, I'm constantly having to work on my wife's and parents' windows boxes because I happen to have the most pc know how. As I am their IT, they constantly hear me berate Windows and tell them I'd rather swap them over to Ubuntu or a Mac than just fix the problem again. If MSFT really implements this price gouging schemes, I'd be more insistent of them switching.

      The way I see it, I have influence over my family by getting them to switch away from Windows. So shouldn't I then be eligible for a discounted copy?

      --
      greed@All_Evils:~#
    7. Re:Linux users by Bandman · · Score: 1

      I would guess that most hard core Linux users are out of the scope of this discussion, since there's no chance they'd buy Microsoft wares anyway.

    8. Re:Linux users by Yaur · · Score: 1

      not so sure about that one. Most of the Linux users I know (including myself) are the go to guys for PC help in their social circles. Convincing them to come back to windows or to recommend windows based on the price that they see seems like it would be a big win for Microsoft... even if it only works 10% of the time.

    9. Re:Linux users by Voyager529 · · Score: 1

      until they switch away from Windows, your influence doesn't affect their bottom line. The issue with influence-based discounts like this is that in most cases that influence must be quantifiable. Unfortunately from Microsoft's standpoint, your influence on them has not yet affected a purchasing decision.

    10. Re:Linux users by kenshin33 · · Score: 1

      do you really need it?

    11. Re:Linux users by kenshin33 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I sure hope that most linux users are not in there only b/c of the price in $. IMHO, linux is not just a price tag, it's a philosophy, a way of being!

    12. Re:Linux users by quadelirus · · Score: 1

      My question is, why are simple linux users at the bottom of the social ladder? Are you saying there is absolutely no chance that movie stars are using linux? I don't see the correlation between social status and linux use. This isn't about who uses what operating system, its about influence in buying decisions over friends, which has absolutely nothing to do with what OS is on your computer. This patent would govern, for instance, looking at which soccer moms are most likely to convince other soccer moms to buy a particular SUV. That is what I'm asking you, where are you getting this claim that linux = bottom of social ladder.

    13. Re:Linux users by quadelirus · · Score: 1

      Yes, when the iPhone came out it wasn't just geeks buying it. You are missing the point. The point is, if a company can reliably identify the people who have the most influence on buying decisions of other people and send them free stuff, then they are likely to maximize profits. I was trying to give a simplified example for explanation.

    14. Re:Linux users by quadelirus · · Score: 1

      I'm going to ask you the same as the parent, what does OS have anything to do with this discussion? MS could very well be patenting some software to market to places like facebook. It might not be interested in using such a structure for marketing the OS at all. This is a very general idea that applies across anything that can be marketed. If you can use social network data to determine who the buying influencers are in a population for a given product (like milk, forget an OS) you can potentially maximize profit by sending them free stuff. That is what this is about. If this works and you could sell your technique to other companies looking to do the same thing (because you have a patent) it could be worth a fortune.

    15. Re:Linux users by mabhatter654 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      but you have to really understand what's going on. A program like this is to measure "influence"... so they now have leverage to keep people from publicly switching as they will lose their "influence discount" and have to start over at "retail price" if they want to "come back to the fold". This is about Microsoft not losing share to other players by squeezing the share it's already got. At an enterprise level that could be tens of thousands of dollars if they saw you reducing Windows desktop licenses but wanting to keep some Server and development tools for stuff yet-to-be-switched.

    16. Re:Linux users by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      Pulling it out of his ass. It's the linux users and related computer geeks at will be the targets for the lower cost software since we have the *most* influence over our respective circle of friends when it comes to purchasing computer hardware and software.

      Of course, it's hard to determine who is causing all this purchasing influence when we never leave the basement. I mean, why risk the sunburn by coming outside to get some free software?

      --
      +1 Disagree
  5. I wonder how long it would by future+assassin · · Score: 1

    take as a regular person (not a corporation) for me to be charged with some kind of "fill in the blank" conspiracy if I started keeping tabs on people like the corporations do.

    Are we actually gonna be citizens in the next 50 years or just law abiding consumrzens with laws that put us into jail of we don't spend our money fast enough on new shiny things.

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
  6. Patentable? by Bel+Riose · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I can't believe, that some pricing strategy is patentable. Is this a joke (I'm a layman in such matters)?

    1. Re:Patentable? by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'd have thought it would be shot down with prior "art" simply because tiered pricing has been in existance since bakers gave away their goods to the emperor for free to bear the titel of "emperor's baker".

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Patentable? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Based on my experience crap patents are easier to get than "real" patents. My speculation is that this is because:
      • there is less prior art
      • the examiner would rather let the courts figure it out than go back and forth with MSFT lawyers
    3. Re:Patentable? by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      Hell, my university athletics department *charges* sports medicine companies for the privilege of treating their athletes.

      --
      +1 Disagree
  7. seems dangerous by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Approaches like this are pretty direct attacks on why free markets work. Almost all classical and neoclassical economic theory assume things like the existence of a supply/demand price curve, availability of pricing information, etc. If you have some nutty system where price curves aren't really defined beyond an individual level, prices aren't widely available, etc., all the usual pricing signals, resource allocation by the "invisible hand", etc., get a lot more muddled, and probably begin to break down.

    Of course, that's certainly a reason I can see Microsoft wanting it: finding ways to profit other than "make a good product and compete fairly on the open market" is their modus operandi.

    1. Re:seems dangerous by quadelirus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We already have this sort of thing on a macro scale. Gadget magazines are sent free gadgets and many of us make buying decisions based on those gadget magazines. This is just a finer grained version of the same old system.

      What scares me about this is that it would create the same kind of frenzied I-want-to-get-as-many-facebook-friends-as-possible-no-matter-if-I-know-them-or-not mentality except with profit motive behind it. The more friends you have, the more MS thinks you are an influential person, the cheaper products are for you. I think that this sort of thing would probably be quickly gamed by many people to the point of being worthless to the marketer.

    2. Re:seems dangerous by Trepidity · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yeah, I agree it already happens, but I think there can be a qualitative difference if it gets hugely pervasive. In the case of free gadgets being sent out, you can at least plausibly still identify a "normal market", where people buy things based on price signals and preferences. It might be distorted somewhat by the reviews the free-gadget-recipients produce, but that's not really in principle different from any other disinformation that distorts markets; just another variety of misleading advertising.

      But if the pricing variance is built into the market itself, it seems quite a bit worse to me. You no longer have a normal market with people trying to distort it, but no real market at all anymore.

    3. Re:seems dangerous by physicsphairy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you have some nutty system where price curves aren't really defined beyond an individual level, prices aren't widely available, etc., all the usual pricing signals, resource allocation by the "invisible hand", etc., get a lot more muddled, and probably begin to break down.

      Companies already have all sorts of way to optimize price models besides looking at a supply demand curve so as to pick one point of intersect. Coupons and discounts allow you to charge more for wealthier individuals, who are less conscerned with spending their Sunday afternoons clipping newspapers. Charging less for over-the-weekend flights means you are effectively able to set higher prices for business trips. Those Pepsi-codes that give people prizes effectively makes Pepsi cheaper to the consumer based on his/her willingness to invest some extra time in winning contests.

      And overall this is no different than paying Michael Phelps $x-million to appear on a box of cereal, except now the $x-million is being distributed to somewhat more ordinary people who act as local rather than national advertisers.

    4. Re:seems dangerous by Tom · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Approaches like this are pretty direct attacks on why free markets work.

      Yes, they are. Surprised to see a direct attack on the free market by a convicted monopolist? ;-)

      Nobody, and I'm serious on that, not the most convinced communist, not the most radical islamic fundamentalist, hates a free market as much as major corporations. Pretty much everything that determines a free market is an obstacle towards their ultimate goal: Unlimited, guaranteed profit.

      I'd have thought after the financial crises more people would've noticed.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    5. Re:seems dangerous by ISoldat53 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is why reviews on Angie's list, CNET, Slashdot, Amazon and the like are getting more important. When you make a report on something like Angie's List you can influence many more people than your lowly ranking as an end-user would normally indicate.

    6. Re:seems dangerous by Kjella · · Score: 1

      There's many simple cures for this one as a mass market thing - vanity for one. Everybody thinks they're above average important and a lot of customers will be insulted that they're not deemed important enough. A lot of people will feel ripped off for having to pay more than the next guy for "no reason" in their opinion, I remember amazon played with this a little while but quickly stopped. There's the easy possibility for arbitrage, if a "trendy" friend of mine doesn't want something but I do, I can setup it up so he buys it at reduced price, I get it and we split the profits. I think a set of dependent PQ-curves should cover this nicely, you have a PQ for leaders and a PQ curve for followers that is a function of number of leaders buying. Then you optimize for the marginal unit where your marginal losses for leaders equals your marginal profits for the followers. It gets more complicated with many tiers but I don't see a real problem modeling it and nothing that'll break much of typical economics.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    7. Re:seems dangerous by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      Approaches like this are pretty direct attacks on why free markets work. Almost all classical and neoclassical economic theory assume things like the existence of a supply/demand price curve, availability of pricing information, etc. If you have some nutty system where price curves aren't really defined beyond an individual level, prices aren't widely available, etc., all the usual pricing signals, resource allocation by the "invisible hand", etc., get a lot more muddled, and probably begin to break down.

      What ... you mean like in the software market?

      • Where there isn't a true supply/demand curve because the supplier can make as many copies of the product as it wants, practically for free?
      • Where suppliers regularly negotiate pricing contracts with large customers with the understanding that the customers won't disclose the prices they paid?

      Note the part where TFPA [patent application] specifies:

      3. The method of claim 1, wherein the product is a digital product of which additional copies can be produced at a nominal cost.

      Is Richard Stallman paranoid when they're really out to get us?

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    8. Re:seems dangerous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You just havent got to the higher levels of econ. This sort of thing has been known for years.

      However it does not produce maximum profit. Max profit is provably where the marginal rev of a product = the marginal cost of a product. In a perfectly competitive environment.

      In a perfectly monopolistic environment this is in a different spot on the curve.

      What they are proposing is attacking every point on the curve. This will not produce optimum profit (in fact i think it would produce anything but). As it is open to everyone just getting the cheapest price on the curve. Either thru gaming the system or being pissed off and just not buying it at all if you 'get screwed'. Hell you could have 'influencers' buying stuff on the cheap and selling it for 'slightly more' to one rung up.

      This has a possiblity of producing a negative effect on people and associations to your product as a 'rip off'. Then if you give it away for free to 'influencers' who are more likely to be UP FRONT about what it cost them the 'rip off' becomes more pronounced.

      This, if not done correctly, could have a 'striesend effect' on your product as being either 'cheap junk', or 'too much for what it really is', or open up a secondary 'black market' for your product (the real reason no one bothers to do this). People once they realize they are being manipulated will turn on you like a pack of rabid dogs.

      The idea is sound. As apple does it with their selling of 'cool'.

    9. Re:seems dangerous by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>Approaches like this are pretty direct attacks on why free markets work.

      It's called price differentiation. Also known as charging what the markets will bear. When a new top of the line CPU or GPU comes out, they cost some ridiculous amount of money. The people that want that 10% FPS gain in exchange for $600 will rush out and buy them. Then a couple months later they drop the price, and the people that are willing to gain a 10% FPS for $400 will rush out and buy them. And so forth until they're priced down at the commodity level, and then a new cycle comes out, and they do it all again.

      If they charged a single price, they'd lose quite a bit of money.

      The only difference here is that they're tying in the price differentiation to the customer himself, and at the same period of time, instead of making people wait to get their products.

      "Oh, you make $20,000 a year? Then the new copy of Gears of War will only run you $30."

      Of course, this will be amazingly susceptible to fraud. Companies which do this right now (power companies are a big one), often require proof of the lower income levels before they give you a discount.

    10. Re:seems dangerous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, not really, and what MS is doing can be explained with minimal first-year economics. MS is doing nothing more than taking price discrimination to its conclusion. The producers have perfect information (in the sense used in economics) so are able to set its prices according to each consumer. You could say this moves the mathematics behind all the economics from continuous to discrete (computation of utility at its basest level is integration of a utility function).

      See it this way: a firm may set different prices for different groups, e.g. Coca Cola might set lower prices for young people who may switch to Pepsi more easily, and set higher prices for older people. (That was a made up example.) There you've discriminated between two groups of consumers. Extend this idea... MS sets a price for a consumer group with only one member.

      Instead of relying on a curve which approximates the utility gained from a particular good MS has devised a way of getting the actual points (or closer to them more than anyone else). Airlines do this to a certain extent already.

      A "universal price" free market is almost always impossible to achieve, esp. when markets are segmented. It is the way things should go if certain conditions are satisfied (heh, Libertarians) but things like slow information, barriers to market entry and all the other terminology dropping that newspapers like to do mean that is doesn't happen in practice.

    11. Re:seems dangerous by stephanruby · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Don't give them any idea. That's essentially what killed http://sixdegrees.com

      SixDegrees used to be a great social networking site until they got the idea that they should reward people having the most connections with free CD players/walkmans and free cheap trinkets (the type that credit cards give you when you sign up with them). As soon as they started doing that, I was really embarrassed that I had invited my former bosses, my college professors, and many of my friends, to it. I used to be really gung ho about that site.

      And it's not that a few idiots didn't take the new incentives to heart, some did, and accumulated thousands of worthless connections from people they didn't even know. And eventually, the site just imploded on itself. The social networking diagrams, which used to be somewhat informative, became totally meaningless. The people that actually added value to the community all left. And the only ones that remained were the needy idiots that cross-spammed each other so that they could get the highest number of connections with the other idiots (that they didn't even know of course).

      Now I realize that Microsoft isn't trying to replicate what SixDegrees did, but I am quite insulted that they would be so out of touch by the common folks that they would try to patent and freely publish such a manipulative and insulting study/process of an idea. Don't they have a PR Department or something? PR Departments shouldn't just vet the Press Releases and announcements, they should also vet and have veto powers against all potentially damaging patent applications, which can be just quite as public and damaging to the reputation of a company as company announcements can be (not only that, but it adds another fresh set of eyes to the process that's not under the direct line of command from where the patent idea originally came from).

      And also, Microsoft should also take look at its own incentive structure for creating patents, just like with social-networking if the incentive system is too out of whack for its own employees, any idiot-researcher within the company will try to produce patent applications -- no matter how damaging those patents can be in PR terms -- to the sponsoring organization itself.

    12. Re:seems dangerous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not the most radical islamic fundamentalist, hates a free market as much as major corporations.

      Is Islam an economic system? Remember, people, communism is an economic theory. It just so happens communism goes hand-in-hand with certain political systems. Same with some religious systems too.

      In Canada we have a Democracy (political), with a mixed market economy (economic system), and a christian majority (religious). None implies the other. We could just as easily have a democracy with communist economic system.

      In order to stop fueling the "we hate the middle east" fire, we can be more specific as to what part of the political, economic, or religious aspects of whatever country we are talking about.

    13. Re:seems dangerous by darthflo · · Score: 1

      Sending free stuff to the press isn't purely a thing of gadget and software markets, it's been around for quite a long time before that. Magazines reporting on concerts get free tickets for their reporters plus in some cases tickets to give away. Radio stations, too, along with free CDs (well, until they're forced to pay royalties for each "performance", but that's a new development). The Academy receives free screeners of nominated movies. Oh, and to get the car analogy in: Those car reviews in newspapers and magazines, they get to try those rides for free, too.

      As long as expensive toys need to be returned after the review (does not apply to services like concert tickets), this doesn't strike me as any problem at all. Anything more than that starts to blur the line to bribery, and that is where it starts getting problematic.

    14. Re:seems dangerous by Aciel.Samael · · Score: 1

      yeah man, every system of political influence is economic as much as anything else it might be, and all religions are by definition political systems. consider how Islam specifically affects its adherents in terms of determining what they are and are not allowed to do? remember the plight of the swine herders in Egypt during the swine-flu scare? also: totally not relevant to the point of the previous post.

    15. Re:seems dangerous by FrozenGeek · · Score: 1

      Essentially, this will only work in a monopoly situation. People of minimal influence must constitute a large segment of the market to make this worthwhile. If one of many competitors is screwing over a large segment of the market, other competitors will cater to that large segment, making the efforts of the one competitor futile.

      You only really need one competitor to not buy into the scheme for the scheme to fail. Treating your customers well never hurts your business.

      --
      linquendum tondere
    16. Re:seems dangerous by quadelirus · · Score: 1

      "Sending free stuff to the press isn't purely a thing of gadget and software markets, it's been around for quite a long time before that."

      True, I was just giving an example.

    17. Re:seems dangerous by otter42 · · Score: 1

      You're kidding right? This is the epitome of a free market. Charge the price that the market will bear. The supply-demand curve is the most basic of tools that economists use to express their ideas to laymen. In fact, economists would like to see every person be charged exactly the price they think the item is worth. This reduces prices for some and raises for others.

      Secondly, prices ARE widely available, it's just that the prices you see won't be the ones I see. I admit this will cause macro-economisists analyst a certain amount of headache, but you as a consumer will still be able to find 100 sites that sell your item. And you will choose the one that is cheapest. And then you will decide if this price is the right price for you.

      I call this "spreadsheet economics". With the advent of very sophisticated control and observation models, businesses can now gage the effect of each individual action against their bottom line. This leads them to do things that would normally seem insane from a customer-service standpoint. Witness RyanAir implementing plans to charge for bathroom usage on aircraft, Apple refusing to repair all smokers computers because of tar build-up, or Best Buy firing customers. They already know how much the bad press will cost them vs. how much they will save/earn based on a new policy.

      With spreadsheet economics, one can now see which markets will bear which prices, and don't be surprised if you turn out to be a market unto yourself.

      --
      www.eissq.com/BandP.html Ball and Plate System. Amuse your friends. Crush your enemies.
    18. Re:seems dangerous by Tom · · Score: 1

      Is Islam an economic system?

      No, but it contains rules on economic behaviour. There are islamic banks, for example. Google is your friend.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    19. Re:seems dangerous by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      Approaches like this are pretty direct attacks on why free markets work. Almost all classical and neoclassical economic theory assume things like the existence of a supply/demand price curve, availability of pricing information, etc. If you have some nutty system where price curves aren't really defined beyond an individual level, prices aren't widely available, etc., all the usual pricing signals, resource allocation by the "invisible hand", etc., get a lot more muddled, and probably begin to break down.

      Actually, it's a logical extension of classical economics. Aggregate supply and demand curves still exits; however you are just able to better price discrimante than before. Companies have tried this for years, universities have been doing it for years in terms of tuition.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    20. Re:seems dangerous by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      Is Islam an economic system?

      No, but it contains rules on economic behaviour. There are islamic banks, for example. Google is your friend.

      Which, intersteingly enough, manage to make a profit without violating Islamic law. Pretty flexible bunch, those capitalists.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    21. Re:seems dangerous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because the market is the battlefield of corporations. The prize is the customer.

    22. Re:seems dangerous by nschubach · · Score: 1

      But it also opens those sites up to manipulation. All it takes is one company to pay a few people to give them nothing but excellent reviews, get a new email and do it over again. You could charge people a subscription to post, but the company would cover this.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
  8. TOOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    You sir are a tool, and apparently happy to be one.

    1. Re:TOOL by yurtinus · · Score: 1

      I hosted a Linux install party and got a free copy of Ubuntu...

      I suppose "tool" is a pretty relative term.

      --
      +1 Disagree
  9. There's only one thing to do! by Interoperable · · Score: 4, Funny

    Let's all friend each other on Facebook...the entire /. community. We will all be considered exceptionally influential and will therefore be given free stuff.

    --
    So if this is the future...where's my jet pack?
    1. Re:There's only one thing to do! by gbarules2999 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Or we could make a website where we all chill and talk about the latest news! Yeah, and we could come up with a bunch of lame meems that spread through the internet, just to show how influential we really are! Sounds kick ass to me.

    2. Re:There's only one thing to do! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I fail to see the reason for this post to be tagged as 'Funny'. Insightful, or at least Interesting.

      It's a perfectly valid procedure (or at least until they start sending DMCA takedown notices, even though it's outside DMCA scope).

    3. Re:There's only one thing to do! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's all get plastic surgery and freeze our age, too.

      Not all of their "influence" variables are going to be remotely fair. In practice, this is going to mean rich folks get things cheaper and poor folks pay more. It's nothing new, as other comments point out, but that doesn't mean it's something that can be laughed off with facebook friends.

    4. Re:There's only one thing to do! by Jazz-Masta · · Score: 1

      Or we could make a website where we all chill and talk about the latest news!

      You mean all the news that's 3 days old? Why, we have /. already.

  10. How is this any different than now? by NoYob · · Score: 2, Insightful

    [0004]The described implementations relate to social marketing. One technique identifies potential buyers of a product where the potential buyers belong to a social network. The technique determines a price to offer the product to individual potential buyers that considers both influence of the individual potential buyer within the social network and overall revenue from sales of the product to the potential buyers.

    [0005]Another implementation identifies potential buyers of a product in a social network. The implementation arbitrarily selects a set of the potential buyers to offer the product at a relatively low price to influence the remaining potential buyers. The implementation also updates membership in the set by adding and removing individual potential buyers from the set until revenue from product sales to the social network is not increased by adding or removing an individual potential buyer from the set. The above listed examples are intended to provide a quick reference to aid the reader and are not intended to define the scope of the concepts described herein.

    The rock stars get their guitars for free (Paul McCartney once commented:"When you're poor you cant' afford them and when you're rich they give them to you.) is the same thing.

    Or how about paying celebrities to use your product.

    Now the randomly selecting people part. What's wrong with that? So they're trying to accelerate the product to the tipping point.

    This will hurt no one and this was just an "article" to have an excuse to bash Microsoft about something. *yawn*

    --
    It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
    1. Re:How is this any different than now? by quadelirus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "This will hurt no one and this was just an "article" to have an excuse to bash Microsoft about something. *yawn*"

      I mildly agree; forgetting the fact that it is MS however, it might be legitimate to ask how this can be patented when it is already the system that has been in place since the dawn of marketing. (Send free stuff to people who influence buying decisions; product giveaways; etc)

    2. Re:How is this any different than now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not, and judging from the start of the discussion it's going to be funny to see how the "prior art" (because this is common practice today, just less scientific perhaps) is going to fare vs. the "Microsoft proposing new evil" line. They are mutually exclusive, but I'm sure we'll manage to combine them and condemn Microsoft for violating both at once :)

    3. Re:How is this any different than now? by Sowelu · · Score: 1

      Thank god you actually bothered to look at the article before posting. Slashdot needs more people like you, it really does. Why are you only modded +3?

  11. Monopolists price fixing by jhoegl · · Score: 1

    Wait a tic... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft If anti-trust doesnt cover this, we need to call our congress people right away.

    1. Re:Monopolists price fixing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait a tic... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft If anti-trust doesnt cover this, we need to call our congress people right away.

      Or.. you need to read TFA and not just the FUD/.summary. I'm not sure how they managed to cram 'monopolist' in there with a straight face, but this has no relevance what so ever to the topic. It's about how you (anyone) can use preferential treatment of/discounts to influentials for marketing purposes (which is not new, btw. by far).

  12. That's right! by NoYob · · Score: 1

    Yet another attempt by MSFT to influence Linux users. By charging them triple for the same product.

    I can see this going over like a lead filled ballon. While costs for goods may rise and drive up prices, prices themselves have a way of going down with volume. Of course in a market (software) that doesn't produce physical products pricing is artificial anyways.

    And look at the picture ! It s NAZI Salute!

    There you go, it's all part of Gates' plan to take over the World and crush Linux! I can tell!

    --
    It's NOT me! It's the meds! I'm on 1000mg of Fukitol.
    1. Re:That's right! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It s NAZI Salute!

      No, he's just indicating how tall he'd be if he were scaled to his penis size.

  13. New Business Model by BitterOak · · Score: 3, Interesting

    1. Become influential or join together with a group of influential friends.

    2. Buy things very cheap.

    3. Sell them at a higher price.

    4. Profit

    In fact, you could set up a brokerage business where you find people that have cheapest access to things, offer to buy from them at a slightly higher price than they pay, and sell at a higher price to groups that would have to pay even more. Lots of profit opportunities here.

    --
    If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    1. Re:New Business Model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better get your patent attorney on the horn, you've just invented arbitrage :).

    2. Re:New Business Model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a greedy dick move, no doubt. I said awhile back I was going to sell my unopened copy of Windows 7, and this cinches it. I do foresee people selling influential social networking accounts similar to online gold mining to get the better deals... I think the market will reject this overall in one way or another, but then again Microsoft will figure out another angle. Back and forth, Microsoft will win eventually, until people wake the fuck up.

    3. Re:New Business Model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless first sale has been undermined (like the large corporations have been working on for years). Then you can't resell their items and they retain control of the marketplace.

    4. Re:New Business Model by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you can resell it... AFAIK you cannot legally resell M$ Licenses..

    5. Re:New Business Model by TheSpoom · · Score: 1

      They'd have a very hard time taking away the right of first sale, so there are usually transfer clauses.

      Of course, the actual software product is hardware locked and that lock is stored in their database remotely such that you can only ever use it on one computer, so whether or not it's legal is actually irrelevant.

      --
      It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
      - E. Debs
  14. The commercialization of friendship by Fractal+Dice · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Influence mapping scares me deeply. It completely devalues the entire concept of friendship, turning every relationship into a marketing channel, every person into a spambot zombie hoping for a discount from sellers or a better performance appraisal at work.

    I would love to see the practice outlawed, but data mining is becoming so pervasive I don't know how you prove its even happening without catching differential pricing caught in the act.

    1. Re:The commercialization of friendship by snooo53 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This already happens to some extent with friends who are part of a multi-level marketing type company (Avon, Mary Kay, etc..) or with school/church fundraisers. The only difference here is that it is digital and therefore much easier to ignore, and much harder to guilt trip someone into purchasing to help out a cause or a friend

      --
      The sending of this message pretty much inconveniences everyone involved.
    2. Re:The commercialization of friendship by honkycat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have an easy solution to that. Anyone who tries to sell me MLM stuff ceases being my friend.

    3. Re:The commercialization of friendship by moonbender · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Fuck 'em. Don't buy their shit. Hell, make it a general principle and don't buy shit in general. Ask yourself "Do I really need this"? Spend more money on food and wine, ideally without a long distribution chain between you and the producer.

      --
      Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
    4. Re:The commercialization of friendship by aaandre · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The natural tendency of Money + Usury = monetizing everything.

      Check this essay on the nature of current money implementation, how it robs humanity of true value and alternatives:

      http://www.realitysandwich.com/money_a_new_beginning

    5. Re:The commercialization of friendship by prefec2 · · Score: 1

      You got my vote. We really have to limit the use of data mining. The improvements in people manipulation based on data mining and psychology shall not be used in marketing methods. However, it will become very complicated to get it outlawed. As the manipulation techniques are also used in politics in favor of the powerful class in our societies.

    6. Re:The commercialization of friendship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It completely devalues the entire concept of friendship,

      Actually, it does the exact opposite...

    7. Re:The commercialization of friendship by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about in the case of stuff they made? If my friends make a music CD or a video I tend to buy it (even if it is rubbish, but often it is ok). For games, less so because they are more expensive...

    8. Re:The commercialization of friendship by Voyager529 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It will always depend. If Friend A tries to show me how cool Widget A is, and I always see him using it and how it has been a positive acquisition for him, then I'm likely to take his endorsement of the product into account. If Friend B tries to show me that she thinks that Widget B is cool, but she never walks around with it, and the only time I ever hear anything about it is when she tries to get me to buy one, and when I really buckle down and ask her what she thinks of it she avoids a direct answer, then you can bet that I'm not going to be terribly impressed with Widget B and certainly won't be buying one.

      this happens all the time, right now. People come to me all the time to talk to me about buying computers and cell phones. I give them my honest opinion, which is typically reflected in what I own, or in spite of what I own. I tell friends that I love my Touch Pro2 and to seriously consider getting one, but tell fellow DJ friends that I'm dissatisfied with my purchase of Torq and that I would recommend Deckadance or Serato instead. My influence comes from the fact that I give it honestly, consistently, and that people are generally happy with purchases I recommend to them. If Microsoft wants to start giving me $29 copies of Win7 and $49 copies of Office for doing what I do now, I've got no problem with that. In fact, when I worked retail, they gave me copies of Halo 2 and Gears of War for free if I took some tests and answered a few multiple choice questions on it.

    9. Re:The commercialization of friendship by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      That is an awesome article. Thank you sir!

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    10. Re:The commercialization of friendship by euxneks · · Score: 1

      This already happens to some extent with friends who are part of a multi-level marketing type company (Avon, Mary Kay, etc..) or with school/church fundraisers. The only difference here is that it is digital and therefore much easier to ignore, and much harder to guilt trip someone into purchasing to help out a cause or a friend

      I had someone try to get me into that once. I didn't, and he's still struggling, the poor bastard.

      --
      in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
  15. Damn impressive spin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow.. I'm sure the summery and title could possibly be more inflammatory and inaccurate, but damn if I can think of how.. You did get me reading and searching through the thing, and.. not sure where to start, but.. there is absolutely no mentioning of "monopolists" in the patent, and it is not about 'price gouging the least influential' (damn I'm impressed by that reversed spin) this is supposedly a system to more scientifically differentiate how you identify and use influentials for marketing purposes (like how many bloggers today receive free or discounted samples to talk about, or just general discounts on a brand/store). This sort of thing has only been going on since people starting selling things to each other.

    1. Re:Damn impressive spin by jhoegl · · Score: 1

      Yeah but, Microsoft is evil and I fear them due to stories I read... on slashdot. Oh crap... Slashdot is to Microsoft as Fox News is to Democratic party. (curse you school, I swore I would never use comparisons!)

  16. Will They Ever Get to Try This? by notseamus · · Score: 1

    This can't be legal, especially under any sane consumer protection laws. I really can't see them ever getting to try this, especially in the EU, where for anything Microsoft do, there's a team of lawyers waiting for the chance to fine them for it.

    On the other hand though, sometimes I like to think that Microsoft go around patenting bad ideas to protect them, not for their own use, but to stop someone really malignant from using them in the real world. How on earth does one determine influence anyway?

    --
    I dreamed of Freud: What does this mean?
    1. Re:Will They Ever Get to Try This? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This can't be legal, especially under any sane consumer protection laws. I really can't see them ever getting to try this, especially in the EU, where for anything Microsoft do, there's a team of lawyers waiting for the chance to fine them for it.

      On the other hand though, sometimes I like to think that Microsoft go around patenting bad ideas to protect them, not for their own use, but to stop someone really malignant from using them in the real world. How on earth does one determine influence anyway?

      sorry to break this to you, but this is going on large scale today, 'influentials' already get preferential treatments, including discounts up to 100%. This is what many bloggers live off. In the US FTC have recently been introducing some regulation on disclosure for bloggers and celebrity endorsements/testimonials.

    2. Re:Will They Ever Get to Try This? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure what your on about, this already happens all the time, even in the EU I'm sure.

  17. Nobel prize for Bill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some day Bill Gates will be nominated for Nobel prize for his great work of philanthropy, for sure.

  18. Doesn't the FTC ruling mean that... by mysidia · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you receive a more preferable product for a good or service based on your social network status (or on your blog), you have to disclose that, according to the FTC.

    You aren't allowed to get a better price based on your influence/following and fail to disclose it.

    This type of pricing scheme is dangerous, and might land company executivies in jail, for the attempt to defraud less-influential people with higher pricing.

    However, I expect this could backfire... some of the more influential people will certainly say what price they got.

    You can't control this type of information. There will be a backlash / disillusionment when other people learn that they are getting a different price.

    In fact, the "more influential person" may lose influence, when people discover that.

    E.g. Getting the better price can have long-term social costs in how other people in your social network view you.

    Good Advise vs. "Sell-out"

    1. Re:Doesn't the FTC ruling mean that... by Artifakt · · Score: 1

      Don't even sweat the FTC - What do you think the IRS does about people not declaring anything over De Minimus items as income? An old rule of thumb has been that items of less than 50 $ are trivial benifits. However, one of the last IRS decisions on employee receipt of employer distributed goods held that the limit where an item was too trivial to report lay somewhere between providing coffee and doughnuts for breakfast (acceptable without bothering to keep records or report) and actually providing a full breakfast such as biscuits, bacon and eggs. Given what an Egg McMuffin, for example, costs, the ruling means people may well be required to report all gifts with a value of about 2.00 $ US and up as miscellanious income, subject to the individual Income tax, and Social Security and Medicare taxes.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
  19. Perfect. by selven · · Score: 2, Funny

    Now nobody else can do it. Can I have my $150 Photoshop now?

    1. Re:Perfect. by ickleberry · · Score: 1

      I'm sure there's an oul torrent out there that will let you have it for $0

      A fellow slashdotter suggesting a ... omg *ILLEGAL* use of our beloved Bittorrent protocol?? please excuse me while I fish my monocle out of my Brandy.

  20. You know what this means by muncadunc · · Score: 2, Insightful

    People will find ways to game this system, just like people gamed search engines with Google bombs.
    If you think blog spam is bad right now, just you wait.

  21. Bing by Tom · · Score: 3, Funny

    And someone just said yesterday that the privacy policy of Bing is better than the one for Google.

    Looks like they have the next few revisions already in mind, with substantial changes.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    1. Re:Bing by jpmorgan · · Score: 1

      Pff, they don't have to invade anybody's privacy to pull this stunt off. These days most people are willing to give out that kind of information for free.

    2. Re:Bing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seems to me like there's a very big opening for a new search company. You need two things: (1) search and (2) a reasonable privacy policy. People would flock to such a service in droves. Same business model as Google - just sell ads.

  22. Game theory by giorgist · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So now MS is patenting Game theory.
    What netx, algebra ?

    1. Re:Game theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What netx, algebra ?

      Well, looks like they already got spell check... So yes, algebra is the one to go.

    2. Re:Game theory by Petrushka · · Score: 1

      So now MS is patenting Game theory. What netx, algebra ?

      Ones and zeroes, obviously.

      (Incidentally, notice the date -- getting on for twelve years old now, and still appropriate.)

  23. Standard marketing strategy, automated. by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

    It's a common story about young entrepreneurs that give samples of their products to "popular" people to create demand. This is, ultimately, just that strategy writ large.

  24. Prior art: Any specialty business / "sponsorship" by BrianRoach · · Score: 2, Informative

    I used to run a motorcycle performance shop. You do this all the time. I would often cut deals on accessories / parts to customers I knew would show them off to their friends, talk on the internet, etc, etc. Those people (hopefully) then buy from you at your regular prices.

    When you do it for club racers, it's called "sponsorship" ... but it's really the same thing. If you have a fast racer, you help him out based on his "influence" (wins races, is well liked, etc). Regardless if your assistance makes him go faster or not, the perception is: "Fast / winning guy goes to Shop X, I should also go to Shop X". They have influence over their "social network", which is other racers.

    Seriously, I don't see how this is new or innovative.

  25. If I were an conspiracy theorist by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I would assume that the open source movement has a mole within Microsoft, because this looks like a big win for open source software.

    1. Re:If I were an conspiracy theorist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would assume that the open source movement has a mole within Microsoft, because this looks like a big win for open source software.

      Looks more like a big "win" for software piracy.

    2. Re:If I were an conspiracy theorist by ozmanjusri · · Score: 1
      Why?

      Why would this change anything for copyright infringers?

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    3. Re:If I were an conspiracy theorist by hairyfeet · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because if lots of other people are being offered software A for $50 and you refuse to offer it to me for less than $100 I'm libel to think FU and go just take the thing? It is like the recent stupidity by MSFT of getting rid of the promo prices for Windows 7 HP.

      I bought one of those $50 promo copies of the Windoes 7 HP upgrade, and I like the software. After the holidays I was gonna go ahead and buy the Windows 7 HP 3 pack, so I could go ahead and upgrade my family. But now that the $50 each price is gone and they want nearly $300 for the same software? Not a chance in hell. Now while I won't pirate it because the XP they already have "just works" and it simply isn't worth the effort to me, I can see others getting pissed and deciding to say FU and just helping themselves.

      So yeah, I can see where it would increase piracy. I know guys that normally wouldn't pay squat for an OS that bought Windows 7 HP because at $50 a copy they decided that it was cheap enough that piracy of that OS simply wasn't worth the effort. If MSFT kept the Win 7 HP upgrades at that price I can see not only software piracy of their OS dropping to unprecedented low levels, but also gaining them extra revenue thanks to the "anytime upgrade" option, which would allow those that decide later they would rather have Pro or Ultimate simply whip out their CC and have it upgrade on the fly.

      Getting rid of the HP pricing was a REALLY dumb move, and this is too. There is a price where it simply becomes easier to buy than to pirate, and whether on purpose or accident I think MSFT had found it with Win 7 HP. It just shows that when in doubt the Ballmer monkey will choose the wrong answer every time. Damned shame, as they could have made XP (which is trivial to pirate) disappear overnight and turned many a pirate into a paying customer. Just as dumb as this, as if anyone won't hear about the lower price the others are getting? Stupid, just really really stupid.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  26. Already an established business practice by Kjella · · Score: 2, Informative

    Maybe they've wrapping it in a new packing, but this doesn't seem very different from the way it's always been - you have those who pay full price, those who get rebates, those who get promotional copies for free and those you have to sponsor, that is to say pay just to use your product and it's all a sliding scale. Like a friend of mine, he's often organizing dinners and such and when he's there alone items will "disappear" off the bill. Why? Because he'll be bringing in a bunch of people who'll spend a lot of money. A colleague of mine used to be quite good at his sport, he's not good enough they'd sponsor him anymore but if he asks he'll always get a "special price" because there's a value to having a veteran walking around in that brand. This sort of stuff happens all the time, and it's been done a million different ways of referrer discounts up to and including MLM schemes where it doesn't just get cheaper there's money flowing out at the top. This just seem like a slightly more organized version.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:Already an established business practice by BrianRoach · · Score: 5, Informative

      Exactly. I also don't see where this is new or innovative, except that it's (presumably) on a large scale.

      When I ran a motorcycle shop, we did this all the time. You know the local customers who bring in other business, often times not even consciously ... they do this because they have a "social influence". So ... you give them cheaper prices. The business they bring in more than offsets that discount.

      With amateur racing, it's called "sponsorship" even if you're not giving things to racers for free. Give a fast guy parts at dealer cost and a break on labor, and he tells other racers how great your are.

      In the "big leagues", companies PAY people to use their products because, well, most people are sheep and buy stuff simply because some "star" wears / uses it.

      Nothing new to see here, move along.

    2. Re:Already an established business practice by umghhh · · Score: 1

      Interesting question would be: can you buy stuff that is not worn/used by a "star"? I have impression that the answer here would be flat 'no' so what this means we are all shepple and if you are concious or not it simply makes no difference anymore - all is commerce.

    3. Re:Already an established business practice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More than an organized version, a formal mathematical expression of said pratice. Promotional prices are obviously low to promote a product, and it should be applied to people who can promote it.

      Another case of patents gone wild.

    4. Re:Already an established business practice by BrianRoach · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't think the clothes I buy at Target are worn by a "star" ... but I could be wrong, mainly because I don't pay attention to such things. I buy clothes there because ... I like the styles, and the prices are cheap. I discovered this simply by walking past them in the store.

      Which brings us to your point. I don't think we're all sheep simply because a product we purchase employs a specific marketing tactic. It's sort of a "If a tree fell" scenario - how am I a sheep when I don't know that some cultural icon gets paid to wear / use something that I coincidentally also wear / use?

      The thing is a great deal of people, consciously or not, do make purchases because someone they hold in high regard wears / uses something. Even when the only reason they are doing so is because they were paid to, or given the item for free. It makes zero sense to me, but I also don't read People Magazine :)

    5. Re:Already an established business practice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If there is a difference it is probably because these patents are an attempt to codify the method or to make the process into something of an algorithm, whereas previously it was based in undocumented common sense and intuition.

    6. Re:Already an established business practice by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      the way it's always been - you have those who pay full price, those who get rebates, those who get promotional copies for free and those you have to sponsor,

      You forgot those that download the products from bittorrent sites.

      I got your influence hangin' right here.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    7. Re:Already an established business practice by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Funny

      undocumented common sense and intuition

      I believe Microsoft holds those patents as well, although they appear to be saving them for some future occasion.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    8. Re:Already an established business practice by ThatMegathronDude · · Score: 1

      That's not so bad, they'll never be able to claim selling a product based on those patents.

    9. Re:Already an established business practice by timeOday · · Score: 1

      This whole article is just a trick to get a rise out of people by spinning "promotional discounts for influential people" as "price gouging the powerless." So which is it really? I'd argue, it's all in the numbers; if they're picking out a small percentage of disadvantaged people for a high price, that is gouging. But if they're picking out a small percentage of opinion leaders for a low price, that is a discount. And I'm guessing it's the latter.

    10. Re:Already an established business practice by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't think the clothes I buy at Target are worn by a "star" ... but I could be wrong, mainly because I don't pay attention to such things. I buy clothes there because ... I like the styles, and the prices are cheap. I discovered this simply by walking past them in the store.

      The mind is a complex beast, but what we do know it's associative. For example when you hear a particular song, you might suddenly find yourself thinking about some special time they played that song. Those emotions "rub off" on the song itself and makes you feel happy just hearing the song. It's the same with ads, you're not going to like take commands from ads. What it will do is link these products to people that are cool, rich, famous, sexy or funny so those thoughts will rub off on the product. In a way, the mind is much better at remembering this than our conscious stream of thought - we'd be overwhelmed otherwise - and the marketers know to use it. You think you're looking at the product, but your mind is really pulling up these associations that say "cool people wear this" and believe it or not, it's what makes people pick one shirt over the other almost similar shirt in the other rack. If people realized they'd feel like a puppet on strings and very few want that, I think it's more likely you've been well marketed to than not marketed to.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    11. Re:Already an established business practice by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      it's both... raise the "list retail" price as high as possible, then offer more people "influential discounts" back down to the price they paid before... and offer FEWER of them as you're "measuring" who is getting influence and who's not.

      That's already the scheme in the Enterprise front... Fortune 500 companies pay far less "per program per seat" but they buy lots of seats... Microsoft keeps the prices lower for them because a company like Ford will have thousands of suppliers and dealers that will be forced to deal in compatible versions of documents and communications that have to pay up. As the company gets smaller they pay more and more because they don't have "volume" right down to all the employees that buy the most expensive retail versions so they can do work at home and look good.

    12. Re:Already an established business practice by tomtomtom · · Score: 1

      Travel is the biggest example of this I know of. All the airlines (and major hotel chains) know EXACTLY who the people who set travel policies for the large corporates are. Those people get comped all sorts of things - free upgrades, free flights, the ability to book a ticket even when the plane is already full, better levels of service even within the same class of travel, the lot.

    13. Re:Already an established business practice by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      I don't think the clothes I buy at Target are worn by a "star" ... but I could be wrong, mainly because I don't pay attention to such things. I buy clothes there because ... I like the styles, and the prices are cheap. I discovered this simply by walking past them in the store.

      Which brings us to your point. I don't think we're all sheep simply because a product we purchase employs a specific marketing tactic. It's sort of a "If a tree fell" scenario - how am I a sheep when I don't know that some cultural icon gets paid to wear / use something that I coincidentally also wear / use?

      But, you see, Target markets to people who want value - reasonable cost and stylish. That's the message their ads put out, and you got it.

      I'm not saying you are a sheep; just that effective marketing takes many forms and influences us in ways we may not even recognize.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    14. Re:Already an established business practice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, well now you're infringing! They're sour that Jerry didn't do it for them, so now they're just going the the regular "dude on the street".

      Anywayz, time to up the posts and become more influential so i can save money buying crap i didn't think that i needed.

    15. Re:Already an established business practice by BrianRoach · · Score: 1

      But, you see, Target markets to people who want value - reasonable cost and stylish. That's the message their ads put out, and you got it.

      I'm not saying you are a sheep; just that effective marketing takes many forms and influences us in ways we may not even recognize.

      Erm, except ... I don't know that I've seen a target ad for their clothes. The only ones I can think of seeing were for electronics (I generally only watch TV for sports)

      We go there for groceries because they're way cheaper than the grocery store, and I just wander through the men's section.

    16. Re:Already an established business practice by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      But, you see, Target markets to people who want value - reasonable cost and stylish. That's the message their ads put out, and you got it.

      I'm not saying you are a sheep; just that effective marketing takes many forms and influences us in ways we may not even recognize.

      Erm, except ... I don't know that I've seen a target ad for their clothes. The only ones I can think of seeing were for electronics (I generally only watch TV for sports)

      We go there for groceries because they're way cheaper than the grocery store, and I just wander through the men's section.

      First, I'm not implying you specifically have been affected by Target ads, but will make a couple of generalizations

      1. You don't have to remember an ad for it to be effective; and memorable ads may not be the most effective. It's all about subtle influences on behavior.

      2. Even though you may only see (or remember) electronic ads; Target's value/style message could still get through and open you to looking at other items in the store. Again, effective ads exert subtle influences in people's beliefs about and desires fo products / services (and politicians although political ads rarely could be called subtle).

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  27. Wow by MadUndergrad · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is the most evil plan related to software that I think I've ever heard. Their plan is basically to prey on the weak. Are they going to patent stealing candy from children next?

    1. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I forget. Do the people have to buy?

    2. Re:Wow by KarmaMB84 · · Score: 1

      The idea is giving discounts or freebies to people who will tell others about your product. Right now they might just give it away for free to reviewers with a large audience. What they'd like to do is identify people they could sell the product to for half price or some other fraction while getting a similar effect. They don't want to give it to them for free if they could get them to pay something for it while still telling all their friends.

      The article title could've used some work IMO.

    3. Re:Wow by Rayonic · · Score: 1

      This is the most evil plan related to software that I think I've ever heard. Their plan is basically to prey on the weak. Are they going to patent stealing candy from children next?

      That seems a little over-dramatic. Social networks are nothing without good contributors, and this could just be a way of rewarding the most active. They're adding value to the service, so why shouldn't they get a discount of some sort?

      My question is, what social networks does Microsoft own anyway? With money involved? The only one that comes to mind is Xbox Live...

      Come to think of it, some kind of incentive plan integrated into that service might be a good idea. I'm not sure what they'd reward -- getting friends online? Hosting game servers? Or perhaps something new. It'll certainly be interesting to see. Xbox Live is pretty much the only Microsoft product that hasn't been totally reactionary in nature.

    4. Re:Wow by MadUndergrad · · Score: 1

      Maybe it was, but this is certainly anti-egalitarian and discriminatory. This policy does nothing but widen the gap between the haves and the have-nots.

    5. Re:Wow by Rayonic · · Score: 1

      People would be paying for this theoretical service either way. Either with money, or with time and effort from contributing.

      I'm not sure how the "have-nots" would get onto this pay service long enough to complain about the participation-based pricing structure anyway.

  28. If only... by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1

    If only Microsoft spent half as much time on improving Windows as they spend on this "research".

  29. Apply to Slashdot moderation? by noidentity · · Score: 1

    Moderators, let's try that scheme here. Give this post 0, 5, 10, 20, or 25 points, based on the influence this author wields. I await your judgment.

    1. Re:Apply to Slashdot moderation? by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      -50, socially irrelevant

  30. Cool by FlyByPC · · Score: 2, Funny

    I, for one, welcome the new opportunity to game the system. I mean pricing scheme.

    --
    Paleotechnologist and connoisseur of pretty shiny things.
  31. False by saleenS281 · · Score: 1

    Interesting. It seems to me celebrities still get all sorts of things for free, and it hasn't lowered the price the least bit for us "common folk". The internet does absolutely NOTHING to force companies to sell a product for the same price to everyone. If you think that you've either never gotten a deal, or you're living in a hole.

    1. Re:False by cheesybagel · · Score: 1
      You are ignoring gray markets and black markets. You can try to bend the natural laws of economics as much as you want. Even if you control the entire state apparatus, as in the Soviet Union, the irresistible forces of the market eventually provide your undoing.

      Why do you think Free Software began in the first place?

    2. Re:False by saleenS281 · · Score: 1

      Because it can be replicated for free.

      The patent says nothing about being limited to software based products. Let me know your solution to "free laptops".

    3. Re:False by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      I said "fixed prices" not free.

    4. Re:False by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      You are ignoring gray markets and black markets. You can try to bend the natural laws of economics as much as you want. Even if you control the entire state apparatus, as in the Soviet Union, the irresistible forces of the market eventually provide your undoing.

      Your example of the workings of the free market are criminal enterprises.

      I just thought I'd mention that.

      I'd go so far as to say the only actual examples of the "workings of the free market" are criminal enterprises. All the rest is just an effort to explain to people at the bottom why it's all good and proper that their lives should suck.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:False by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      Gray markets aren't criminal, that's the whole point. Parallel importing has always been legal, which is why the DMCA is anti-capitalist - it makes it difficult to parallel import movies and software (particularly console games) even when they have been legally bought retail or wholesale in another territory.

    6. Re:False by saleenS281 · · Score: 1

      And I said explain why it hasn't happened with ANYTHING today. Celebrities and others get stuff for FREE to do exactly what this patent describes. You can ignore reality and deny that this works all you want, it won't change anything.

  32. This is done everywhere... by jmerlin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Just look at what they're proposing. Those who INFLUENCE other people in a way that makes a product more valuable.. are desirable customers. So we discount them or give the product to them for free because it increases the value of the product on the whole. Let's look at two examples that are present in all places one might wish to look:

    1. Advertising. Duh. Sports athletes, actors, models, and other such famous figures. We see them sporting things GIVEN to them by companies. Why? Because the trend is: "he/she has it, that's so cool, I want one too!" That's exactly what this system is.
    2. Referral rewards. This one is particularly damning to this patent. Many companies allow people to refer other customers and as a reward they eventually get a kickback or free stuff. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE HIGHLY INFLUENTIAL. And there you have it, this EXACT system, down to the letter. If you prove you're influential, we give you a discount or free things because we know you're likely to bring us more customers and as a result we can raise our prices.
    This patent will almost certainly be shot down via prior art if those in charge of approving them have paid attention to marketing strategies for the past few decades.

  33. Yay! by arun84h · · Score: 2, Funny

    Only 5000 more rep and I'll be exalted with the Microsoft faction! Discounts abound!

  34. Sounds like it boils down to... by meerling · · Score: 1

    ... Screw the geeks, dweebs, nerds, and awkward kids and adults, give it away free to the popular people...

    Guess what, we are NOT the popular people out there.
    Do you really want to subsidize them?

    As to the celebrity thing, I don't much like it, they get paid lots of money, they can afford to buy their own freaking PS3, and the house to put it in, but that at least falls under advertising.
    However, making it a form of industry wide pricing scheme, that has to be illegal.
    (And if it isn't, it should be.)

    "I'm sorry mam, according to the index, nobody really likes you, so we have to charge you 3 times as much for that."

  35. Isn't this how capitalism works now? by dfn5 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    an example of a pricing model that charges different people $0, $5, $10, $20, or $25 for the identical item based on the influence the purchaser wields.

    This is just an observation, but when I hear things like "We got 80% off list price for technology X from our vendor" it makes me wonder what the real value of the product is. After reading this maybe the value of the product is really irrelevant and in our world of commerce it depends on how influential you are. If that is the case how can they patent how the world currently works?

    --
    -- Thou hast strayed far from the path of the Avatar.
    1. Re:Isn't this how capitalism works now? by starrsoft · · Score: 1

      I just thought about it that this illustrates a benefit that selling Black Friday tech in low quantities at absurd prices brings--the Type A personalities that are most likely to influence people are also the types that will line up with sleeping bags at 6 PM the night before to get your goods, thus influencing others to buy at regular prices. Yet another example of prior art. However, I guess the supposed (and seemingly legit) unique aspect of MS' patent is using a social network to determine a person's influence rather than hand picking celebrities (sponsorship) or tailoring circumstances (Black Friday) or retroactive discounts (referral programs).

      --
      Read my blog: HansMast.com
  36. Paying for astroturfing by tomhath · · Score: 2, Insightful

    FTFP: "The technique determines a price to offer the product to individual potential buyers that considers both influence of the individual potential buyer..."

    Microsoft wants to pay its customers to astroturf for it. Where I come from that's called a kickback, bribe, or politics as usual.

  37. free stuff ? by naeone · · Score: 2, Interesting

    for free stuff i use p2p, best marketing tool ever, apart from the sales graph

  38. Dear kdawson by timmarhy · · Score: 0
    please read your own submissions and maybe they wouldn't have logic fails in the tital and summary, and just might stop sucking so much.

    sincerely, the internet.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
  39. A Business Method - not patentable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is that not the case? And. others already use the same or related structures - some for years. Oriental bazaars and traders have worked this way for centuries.

  40. Wait! Is it gouging the least influential... by jejones · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...or bribing the most influential?

  41. So how do you game that system? by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let's be blunt here, if one side ceases to play fair, I see no reason in not following.

    So what's the requirement to be seen as "influential"? Having a shitload of friends on facebook? Great. Let's start a group dedicated to the sole purpose of having friends. People you don't know or don't care about, as long as you have a lot of friends you get crap cheaper? Works for me.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:So how do you game that system? by PPH · · Score: 1

      It might be a bit tougher to game than that.

      The value assigned to a particular individual depends not only on the value of that person within a group, but the value of a relationship within that group as a whole. You might be the most popular person in some forum, but if that forum does not affect the purchasing decisions of its members, vendors will not pay (give discounts) for advantageous product placements with its key members. Create a goup whose only purpose is amass high 'friend' counts and that won't be worth much.

      Actually, I've been wondering why some of the social networking sites haven't leveraged this data to a greater extent already. They've got the databases and they could offer a list of key opinion makers to vendors (for a fee, of course). These vendors are motivated to get their products into the hands of these people. That Microsoft grabbed this patent (assuming it survives court tests) means they will be able to 'manage' this social network to vendor transaction. Not a position any businessman wants to get caught in. Your product becomes secondary to Microsoft's efforts to propagate its own technologies.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:So how do you game that system? by Xugumad · · Score: 1

      I think people are overestimating how hard it is to be seen as influential. Windows 7 pre-order, is a good example. Do you think they did massively cut-price Windows 7 for people who ordered early because people wouldn't buy it once it was released, or because they needed sales figured ahead of time? Maybe, but I personally think they were trying to ensure early-adopters (who are likely to be the techies other people look to for advice) can get Windows 7 easily.

      Same reason I've got Office 2010 on my PC at the moment; free Office for a year (until Oct 2010) if you can cope with the fact it's meant to be beta (no significant issues so far, personally). They're trying to motivate me to tell others they need to upgrade for cool features such as ODF support... ...and I think it's working...

    3. Re:So how do you game that system? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Then create a "ask the tech expert" group, and create some tool that automaticall posts random questions and answers to your "friends".

      Or do you think they'll REALLY go out of their way to have a human being asign each of the millions of groups a "social value"?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:So how do you game that system? by PPH · · Score: 1

      Or do you think they'll REALLY go out of their way to have a human being asign each of the millions of groups a "social value"?

      But if you, the designated "tech expert" expect to derive some benefit as the leader of this phantom group, you'll have to be identified as an actual person in meat space, with a credit card number, shipping address and all. And your ranking as a "leader" can be weighted by how many of your minions can be validated as real as well.

      In fact, if I were to construct such a system, I'd factor in the aggregate economic value of the followers of a particular individual before calculating his/her discount.

      Systems that do a good job weeding out the 'bots will be rewarded with a cut of the profits. Those that allow anonymous posting, or just don't do a good job policing their member database are worth zip. One othe benefit of such a system: It'll encourage the likes of Google to keep the phony accounts off their system.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  42. Profit with no knowledge: How? Abuse. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Microsoft is widely misunderstood. It is not primarily a software company. It is an abuse company that uses software to deliver abuse.

    That's my opinion, and the opinion of millions of others, it seems.

    Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer reportedly has little or no technical knowledge. Could someone with no technical knowledge make a high-tech company profitable without an abusive virtual monopoly?

    Steve Ballmer, As Portrayed by 80 Blue Screens of Death

    1. Re:Profit with no knowledge: How? Abuse. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You cite a mac related website to abuse Steve Ballmer? That's funny.

      As for your question:

      >>Could someone with no technical knowledge make a high-tech company profitable without an abusive virtual monopoly?

      Just like the other Steve?

    2. Re:Profit with no knowledge: How? Abuse. by Nazlfrag · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, Apples program involves tracking sales of black polo-neck jumpers.

    3. Re:Profit with no knowledge: How? Abuse. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Microsoft is widely misunderstood. It is not primarily a software company. It is an abuse company that uses software to deliver abuse.

      So don't buy their products. It's not that difficult.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  43. But it helps to find cheaper offers by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

    The internet is great for comparing prices and finding the cheapest offers. I have used that myself on occasion to get CDs below 10 euros or some electronic spare parts for a fraction of the price the official channels demand. And that is only about getting the same stuff cheaper. Finding alternatives from another brand is also easier when you can get all the information you need on the net.

    Of course, the above covers only low priced stuff where most dealers won't bother with haggling because it would be too much work. For expensive stuff with a lot of visibility, the celebrities still have that advantage.

    --
    C - the footgun of programming languages
  44. Way too much prior art by istartedi · · Score: 1

    Famous people and/or well-connected people have been getting "gifts" from companies for ages. Some of the very first wheels were probably given to the chief with the big spear, while the guy in the cave next door had to give saber-tooth cat pelts in exchange.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  45. Prior art by gmuslera · · Score: 4, Insightful

    A pretty close one: having the option to disable slashdot ads based on user karma.

    1. Re:Prior art by Odinlake · · Score: 1

      Not the same scale as M$-example but a very good observation nontheless - wish I had points to mod you up with.

  46. This is ideal for a kick in the nuts analogy by KickInNutsAnalogyGuy · · Score: 2, Funny

    Consider the following: You've been tasked with junk-kicking the man business of a certain number of individuals. The parameters of your task are only concerned with the number of people junk-kicked; you decide which people's man business gets junk-kicked to meet your assigned quota. Are you going to junk-kick Vladamir Putin or Osama Bin Laden? How about Kim Jong-il? Tom Cruise? I would think not. That some of the aforementioned people might deserve a junk-kick in their man business matters not. They all have massive influence and could easily make you: disappear, die, rot in prison, or a level 5 Thetan.

    The obvious targets for a junk-kick in the man business would be individuals with very little influence: Luxembourgians, educated American voters, Gary Coleman, The Jackson family sans Michael, and etc. These targets would have little recourse other than to accept a good junk-kick in the man business. In fact, some groups are repeatedly being junk-kicked in the man business (read: educated American Voters).

    I think it's safe to say that a lack of influence == junk-kick in your man business.

  47. What a sick fricking world. by tjstork · · Score: 1

    Has the world gotten so twisted that we cannot create a place for kids to hang out online without a bunch of assholes trying to put them under a magnifying glass to sell them something? Why do people expect teenagers to be anything less than jaded when the whole of humanity does nothing but pander to them like objects and crowds them into little spaces.

    HEY, TEACHERS! LEAVE THEM KIDS ALONE.

    --
    This is my sig.
    1. Re:What a sick fricking world. by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "Why do people expect teenagers to be anything less than jaded when the whole of humanity does nothing but pander to them like objects and crowds them into little spaces."

      They SHOULD be jaded. Innocence is a weakness, and the more cynics/realists we breed the better.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  48. Meh. There's prior art... by msauve · · Score: 5, Insightful

    this is exactly what the US Congress has been doing for years (Price-Gouging the Least Influential).

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    1. Re:Meh. There's prior art... by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 2, Insightful

      if I had mod points I would rate this funny. Hilarious!

    2. Re:Meh. There's prior art... by jc42 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't have mod points right now, either. So I'll just add that the joke about Congress is just one of many example of "prior art" that might be used to disqualify this patent.

      Another well-known example of this process is the common practice in the food industry of having higher prices (and lower quality) in inner-city stores than in the same chain's suburban stores. The chain stores know that the poorer people can't afford to do price shopping like the more affluent people do, so they can get away with charging more in the poorer areas.

      With a little effort, we can probably come up with a good list of prior art, and maybe we can even get it into the Patent Office's hands.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
    3. Re:Meh. There's prior art... by siloko · · Score: 0

      You got the gist! Patenting a process whereby the poor/least advantaged are specifically targeted for price hikes because they lack the ability to 'influence others' is morally ambiguous at best. But not only that it completely disregards the enfranchising nature of the internet and the way it enables Aunt Mable to touch the lives of thousands/millions via YouTube/Twitter/Facebook/Blog's etc. So someone at Microsoft if not only being a heartless prick - he's being a stupid, luddite, heartless prick!

    4. Re:Meh. There's prior art... by rtb61 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      What this is, is a patent on the M$ viewpoint of the world. Basically influential people will lie about the quality of product if the get a lower price, much the same as M$ marketing will tell any lie necessary as long as the profits exceed the penalties. It really is sad that they think influential people are so easily bought, basically for a handful of pretty beads.

      So what is the payoff, M$ consider you 'special' they sell product to you at a special price but, watch out if your influence does not align with their current marketing promotions as you'll lose you 'special' status and discounts. It really is rather petty that M$ management believes that the rest of societies honour and integrity is up for sale just like theirs and truly strange that they think that concept is patentable.

      Not that there aren't quite a few people out their who have no qualms recommending crap products when they get a kick back for the referrals but, the reality is the influence doesn't have any real lasting value as people soon learn the true value of their recommendations, worthless, just like the products they recommend.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    5. Re:Meh. There's prior art... by jayme0227 · · Score: 1

      Congress and many other major corporations. I used to work for Wal-Mart (really, it wasn't so bad, honest!) at the service desk. It was always the loudest people who got what they wanted. While this isn't technically the same, since it's screwing everyone over, then paying the influential loudmouths to shut up, the desired outcome remains.

      It's the same as it always has been: the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

      --
      But then I realized the cable was blue, so I only gave it one star. I hate blue.
    6. Re:Meh. There's prior art... by MrResistor · · Score: 1

      It really is sad that they think influential people are so easily bought, basically for a handful of pretty beads.

      But are they wrong?

      --
      Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
  49. That's just sponsorship/payment. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't this just graduated sponsorhip? I give this guy a free skateboard because he appears in lots of videos, I sell it at the normal price to this guy because he's rubbish on a board. It's not evil to give things cheaply or freely to people who will help you sell your stuff, it's payment in product for being a spokesperson. It's also certainly no more evil just because it's been automated/scripted either - that sounds a lot like a fearful reaction to scaling more than anything. I think if anything is an issue here it might be whether the right to patent the automation of sponsorship/pricing is too generalised.

  50. Influentials! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Influentials, influentials, influentials!

  51. An internet connection gives massive influence by petes_PoV · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One bad review posted to a web forum can have a huge effect. When multiplied by 1000, I would expect the consensus view would be that few people would buy a product - if they saw that many bad reviews or negative votes or a given product. These guys had better be very careful about who they decide is not influential, they could just find that there's a difference between how motivated individuals are to spread good news about a product and the lengths others will go to if they feel they've been hard done by.

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  52. Be Anonymous or Steal Identities? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    The Difficulty I have with this is that I am AC Anonymous Coward. And therefore have little to no influence. So I get charged the maximum allowable rate, which probably includes their margins for medical/dental/vacation/bribes etc. Now if I was to sign my name to it, I could perhaps be influential, but no I prefer the idea of anonymity so I get seriously gouged for it. But if I have a name, then I might get the regular rate which is supposedly discounted but really isn't, this is similar to Grocery Card thinking. What this sort of price fixing might help spur is identity theft, so I can get the better rate for items if not just get the item for free. You want to be anonymous you end up having to pay for it, but if you can leverage a known name/brand you can live the sweet life. Reminds me of Christopher Rocancourt, he got away with saying he was a Rockefeller for years.

  53. Re:Damn impressive spin - Monopolist References by theodp · · Score: 1

    The Microsoft Research page hosting the video has a typo ("How can a monoplist seller use social network effects to increase revenue earned?"), but the WWW2008 paper's got it right ("We assume that the seller is a monopolist and is interested in maximizing its revenue."). Perhaps Microsoft didn't want to be too restrictive with the patent. :-)

  54. So, guys on eBay will trade their influence by SlappyBastard · · Score: 1

    At least we can finally quantify and sell it the right way. Frankly, politicians and MBAs were always half-assed.

    Every supremely dumb idea is just a new opportunity for arbitrage.

    --
    I scream. You scream. I assume that means we're both acquainted with the problem. We proceed.
  55. How is this different from sports endorsements? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Companies give their products to the people who are watched using them. Pay these people to use them, then charge consumers who aren't watched "full price". Nike, Head, Speedo, EVERYONE has been doing this for years.

  56. Amazon's 2000 Experiment With Dynamic Pricing by theodp · · Score: 4, Informative

    Outrage prompts Amazon to Change Price-testing Policy: "Last week, Computerworld first reported that Amazon was conducting various price tests in its DVD store that could result in one consumer paying as much as $15 more for the same item as another consumer."

    1. Re:Amazon's 2000 Experiment With Dynamic Pricing by pete6677 · · Score: 1

      I wish they'd bring this back. It would be fun and profitable to game the system.

  57. If you've got nothing to hide, you..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's all the fuss about?

  58. Welcome to the new world.... by westlake · · Score: 1

    Clark Gable drove a custom built 1936 Duesenberg Speedster that likely cost him nothing more than the price of a fill-up.

    The promotional price to the influential buyer is as old as dirt.

    1. Re:Welcome to the new world.... by Animats · · Score: 1

      Clark Gable drove a custom built 1936 Duesenberg Speedster [howstuffworks.com] that likely cost him nothing more than the price of a fill-up.

      That's nothing. Arnold Schwarzenegger wanted a personal HUMMV, and the entire civilian Hummer business was created for him.

  59. Prior Art by prograde · · Score: 2, Informative

    I cite as prior art every club that charged me a cover fee, while letting the cool, beautiful people skip the line and get in for free.

  60. Not news by Xamusk · · Score: 1

    Last time I checked, that's what politicians do

    Maybe I should just start a church and make believers be my friend on Facebook

  61. There is prior art in the software industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Influential music producers get all the high end studio software for free, much like how influential artists get all their instruments for free, and influential sports-people get their equipment and clothing for free - in return for an endorsement. It's just sponsorship by another name, basically.

  62. They have thoroughly tested this by postmortem · · Score: 3, Insightful

    With Windows 7 release.

    'Influential' people (loud online and offline how Vista sucked) and enthusiasts (basically same as first group) were given discounted versions of Windows 7 (win 7 parties, pre-release discounts, school discounts, etc.)

    And they all took the bait, told the world how Win 7 is great... and guess what? You can't buy discounted version, you have to shell out $120 for cheapest upgrade. The student version offer is about to end as well, and family upgrade option 3-for-150 has been discontinued.

    Sadly, it works, now everybody wants or considers Windows 7.

  63. Prior art by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

    Packt Publishing (and probably other publishing houses) already do this by asking reviewers on famous product-related sites to review in exchange for a free copy.

  64. There's only 1 evil monopoly out there: GOVERNMENT by AlexLibman · · Score: 0

    Everything else, including Microsoft, is subject to free market competition.

    They should be free to charge whatever the market will bare - which, in absence of government's alleged right to initiate aggression over copying 1's and 0's, would not be very much, but Microsoft could still make decent profits by bundling hardware, business contracts, services, certifications, etc.

  65. Prior art... by Nadaka · · Score: 1

    Inner city grocery and rat-hole rent costs costs vs suburban super markets and low interest mortgages.

  66. Regressive Pricing for the Poor by hedgemage · · Score: 1

    Who's influential? The rich.
    Who's not? The poor.
    In American capitalism, we are told that we can vote with our dollars to determine an organization's success or failure. Apparently, Microsoft feels that a poll tax is necessary.
    Just as large corporations can use their money to exert disproportionate influence on the local or national political scene, now in marketing decisions the influence of a rich person will hold more weight than the 'common man' who makes up the majority of the market.

  67. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  68. If I were influencial, by consumer_whore · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'd buy large quantities of their products at a low price and resell them for a small markup.

  69. The problem is by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    With the Internet, everyone has a voice. Everyone is not equal, but everyone has a voice. There are so many places, forums on sites like this being the best example, where people can express themselves that even if you are completely non-influential online in general terms, your voice can be heard by millions. Also someone who isn't influential can suddenly become influential. My website is not influential, it isn't intended to be, few people come to it unless they are after something in particular on there. However, if I put something on it, and Slashdot links to it, suddenly it is influential for that item. My voice went from meaning little to meaning lots.

    So the problem you get is that if there is differential pricing going on, people will quickly find out. If it is something like you've been sending out discount codes to preferred customers that reduce the price, those codes will quickly be posted all over the Internet. If it is something like you give people a great deal via their account and tell them to tell their friends, well then quickly it becomes apparent that not everyone gets a great deal as they talk about it, and this will get posted on the net.

    It is just the sort of thing I don't see working. There is so much content submitted by random people (like our comments), so many forums for expressing yourself, and the potential for a single post to become of major international note. You can't control that sort of thing.

  70. What about Whuffies? by pegasustonans · · Score: 1

    Perhaps the Whuffie is not quite prior art, but it's pretty darn close. In any event, reading "Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom" should give anyone a good sense of why this is a bad idea.

    --
    And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. --Will
    1. Re:What about Whuffies? by osu-neko · · Score: 1

      Perhaps the Whuffie is not quite prior art, but it's pretty darn close. In any event, reading "Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom" should give anyone a good sense of why this is a bad idea.

      I've read it. It would certainly be very nice to live is the incredibly blessed utopia described in the book, despite the problems. Not sure why you think reading it should lead anyone to the conclusion that it's a bad idea...

      (Note, I'm not saying the reason for their utopia is the "whuffie", rather it's the other way aroud -- in the post-scarcity world they live, money in the traditional sense would be a laughable idea, the "whuffie" is about the only kind of currency you can have in a world where anything material is free. Just saying it's not obvious why it would be "a bad idea", unless you're one of those people who considers anything not perfect "a bad idea". Yes, there are problems with it. But all forms of currency are a bad idea if your standard is that there be no problems with it.)

      --
      "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
    2. Re:What about Whuffies? by pegasustonans · · Score: 1

      It would certainly be very nice to live is the incredibly blessed utopia described in the book, despite the problems. Not sure why you think reading it should lead anyone to the conclusion that it's a bad idea...

      I guess it just goes to show that one person's utopia is another person's hell. I certainly did not view the world as depicted in the book as an "utopia." One big popularity contest with the most manipulative members of society at the top is not my idea of a good time...

      --
      And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. --Will
  71. The monopolist reveals its true nature by Whuffo · · Score: 1
    In a free market like what the USA might still have - this kind of pricing discrimination is pure poison. Our system is strong enough to withstand the individual influence peddlers and shills - but if it becomes common commercial practice it will be a disaster.

    This type of anti-competitive scam has been addressed by the law before; look up "pricing discrimination" or "redlining" for some background. The best possible result is that those with "influence" (read: money or power) buy cheap and can resell to the ESL crowd for slightly under their higher market price. Very handy little business opportunity and it transfers even more money to the pockets of those with "influence". A more likely result is that Mr. Important gets all he needs and Mr. Common Citizen can't get the product at all.

    Microsoft operates by selling discs and boxes for hundreds of dollars. Their supply of product is essentially unlimited so they don't have to worry about the issues that businesses operating in the real world do. What they propose in this patent may be useful for their little piece of the market but it's bad in most cases.

  72. The Tipping Point by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1

    I know this is evil because it's Microsoft, blah blah blah (yawn)... However it's interesting to note that Malcolm Gladwell postulated something similar in his book "The Tipping Point." In the book, he speaks extensively on the value of the influencers in our society.

    From http://www.wikisummaries.org/The_Tipping_Point

    Many trends are ushered into popularity by small groups of individuals that can be classified as Connectors, Mavens, and Salesmen. Connectors are individuals who have ties in many different realms and act as conduits between them, helping to engender connections, relationships, and "cross-fertilization" that otherwise might not have ever occurred. Mavens are people who have a strong compulsion to help other consumers by helping them make informed decisions. Salesmen are people whose unusual charisma allows them to be extremely persuasive in inducing others' buying decisions and behaviors. Gladwell identifies a number of examples of past trends and events that hinged on the influence and involvement of Connectors, Mavens, and Salesmen at key moments in their development.

  73. 0ld business trick by inflamed · · Score: 1

    This is hardly a new idea. Businesses have been giving special deals to their "local customers" (who do work-of-mouth advertising) forever. Take {some shop} ; they have great deals, and they have rip-off deals. If you know what a good deal looks like, you'll shop there and boast of the great deal you got at {some shop}. Your friends will wander in and fall for the $100 "setup fee" sales pitch. {some shop} will keep getting your sheep-y friends' business as long as you keep taking advantage of their bifurcated price scheme. So, we see it implemented in e-commerce too. What a shock!

  74. Re:Prior art: Any specialty business / "sponsorshi by euxneks · · Score: 1

    Hunh.. thought I had already read this: http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1476462&cid=30417776 So why do you no longer run the shop? Sounds like you liked it quite a bit.

    --
    in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
  75. Is this even legal? by jopsen · · Score: 1

    This might be legal if you sell the product directly, but if you sell it through a reseller/shop or whatever... You can't specify how the reseller should charge his costumers, I believe that's illegal, at least in Denmark, and likely the entire EU...
    Am I wrong ?

  76. Re:Bullshitters and marketers posing as research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Slashdot.org runs because partly because they take ad money from Microsoft.

  77. Hmmm... by Paradyme · · Score: 1

    When Microsoft starts to emulate Mafia Wars to entice people random-invite, I start getting worried

  78. wait a minute... by AlgorithMan · · Score: 1

    Isn't that some sort of pyramid scheme?

    --
    The MAFIAA is a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes
  79. Re:Prior art: Any specialty business / "sponsorshi by BrianRoach · · Score: 1

    So why do you no longer run the shop? Sounds like you liked it quite a bit.

    I missed the day in business 101 where they tell you never to go into business with friends. After 6 years it was ... time to go back to being a geek.

    I don't regret it though, it was a great learning experience both in business and personal relations.

    As for the double post ... it made sense to add the content to that conversation as it was relevant.

  80. Whuffie by hoggoth · · Score: 1

    Well, I'd better get to work on my Whuffie.

    --
    - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
  81. Suicide Wish, let's grant it. by mattr · · Score: 1

    And that's why America sucks these days and is a laughing stock. The most visible fruits of the current system, as seen by the Internet-connected population, are:
    - RIAA lawsuits for sharing of intangible rights (which was legal in analog era)... despite ability to build models that could benefit artists and consumers alike while allowing sharing.
    - Monopolist software company created by world's richest man, patenting "price gouging of the least influential", despite having the resources to build new better software packages.
    - Google CEO disavowing responsibility to protect user privacy.. despite being in a position to protect it strongly.
    - First black U.S. President, having not accomplished anything yet, accepting the Nobel Peace Prize... despite being in a position to give a great example of character to blacks, whites, and all races alike.

    Influential entities like the above which inhabit influential positions in the world, find it much more profitable to act cynically than to do the right thing. This is why the dollar gets torpedoed and the U.S. is losing relevancy.

    These issues are all vulnerable to information sharing via the media, in particular Microsoft, which I think should be the test case since they deserve it.
    - Purchasers should post what they paid for a product
    - The purchaser then learns what segment Microsoft considers them to inhabit
    - Lower ranked segment inhabitants are encouraged to post reviews and letters.
    The intent being to invert the Microsoft cynical agenda (as exemplified in their ideal pricing structure) and force the monopolist to sell its product to the entire market at the minimum price for which it sells in any market segment worldwide.
    They also should have the antimonopoly hearings reconvened and be fined for attempting to patent something which so clearly goes against the spirit of that ruling.
    Finally I would like to say that I have decided to fine MS one user license worth myself, as I will not tell my nephew to buy MS Office.

  82. Microsoft Invents Price-Gouging the Least Influent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > Microsoft Invents Price-Gouging the Least Influential

    Coming soon assclown theodp invents summary proper sentence.

  83. Then start swapping the cards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those programs are only as good as their data collected and, as anybody here should understand, the SERIOUS way to fubar such a system isn't to refuse to participate, it's to feed it plenty of misleading information.

    If you're opposed to such systems then you should sign up for as many as you can, ideally with fake names, and convince people around you to do the same. Then periodically swap your cards. When a night shopping single mother swaps with a person buying for an office and then back with another single mother, but this one on the other side of town, the affinity card system will be "building a user profile" and a pattern of shopping for that area filled with errors and misunderstandings.

    So I say again, get every card you can. Then swap them as frequently as you can, was widely as you can, and as randomly as you can. And every person who does it undercuts the corporations trying to turn us into tidily harvested revenue nuggets.