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Legislator Wants Cancer Warnings For Cell Phones

Cytalk writes "A Maine legislator wants to make the state the first to require cell phones to carry warnings that they can cause brain cancer, although there is no consensus among scientists that they do and industry leaders dispute the claim. The now-ubiquitous devices carry such warnings in some countries, though no US states require them, according to the National Conference of State Legislators. A similar effort is afoot in San Francisco, where Mayor Gavin Newsom wants his city to be the nation’s first to require the warnings."

314 comments

  1. the sky is falling! by grub · · Score: 5, Insightful


    Just a lameass politician trying to make a name for himself.

    Next will be the "Vaccines cause Autism" warnings, the "Aspartame makes you Fat" warnings and the "Fluoride in the water is a Mind Control Drug" warnings.

    They really should have a "Politics makes you a fuckhead" warning.

    .

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:the sky is falling! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Perhaps we need a Maine Representative Andrea Boland causes cancer sticker, for her to attach to the speaker attached to the representative's cellphone? If you ask me, that rep has spent too much time outside in the winter air in Maine.

      What's next, Republicans and Democrats demanding "Democrats cause cancer, and Republicans cause cancer," respectively?

    2. Re:the sky is falling! by citab · · Score: 5, Funny

      Warning: "Politics makes you a fuckhead"

      That should totally be made into a T-Shirt

    3. Re:the sky is falling! by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I can prove that Cell phones cause cancer because they are always emitting their GPS signals to the government, and they can remotely activate the voice input on your phone to listen to what you are saying. Luckily, I've got a free open source non-patentable method of keeping them out. You take some regular household tinfoil, and you wrap it around your head, so that it nicely rests on the ears. Make sure you get everything North of your eyebrows covered, and all the way around to the strange marking on that back of your neck from that one night you were abducted. (For those not abducted, just cover the entirety of your neck, to be safe).

      Next, you need to take your passport and stick it in the Microwave, because the government put an RFID in there, to keep track of what terrorist states you are visiting. While you're in the kitchen, get a water filter, but not Brita, that is clearly alluding to England which is a close friend to the United States Government. Make sure you filter your water twice, and possibly even Distill it to make sure any and all drugs in the water are not present.

      You should start a garden in your basement and grow some wheat (not outside! They'll see your crops on Google and poison them!). You can then turn that wheat into your own flour and use your own non-contaminated water to make dough, which you can then turn into a wide variety of foods.

      Last but not least, every time you use your computer, make sure to open a text document and type in "I KNOW YOU'RE WATCHING" so that the FBI/CIA/Military Industrial Complex knows that you know and won't bother watching you. Follow these simple steps and you too can free yourself from the insanity that oppresses the sheeple into doing the corporations bidding. Maybe one day we'll rise against the new world order together, and take back what is rightfully ours **(I don't know what that is yet, but when I figure it out I'll let you know.)

    4. Re:the sky is falling! by camperdave · · Score: 4, Funny

      That should totally be made into a T-Shirt

      ... and sent to every politician.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    5. Re:the sky is falling! by NiceGeek · · Score: 4, Funny

      Including Ron Paul

    6. Re:the sky is falling! by Eowaennor · · Score: 2, Informative

      I recall a study done several years ago by MIT students regarding tin foil hats. Apparently certain folds will actually amplify certain frequencies!
      http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/

    7. Re:the sky is falling! by BeanThere · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What this legislator is really saying is that he doesn't have anything better to do to justify his presence on the payroll. In these tough economic times useless asses like this should be given the boot, so that the money can go to somebody who can do something that is actually productive and useful. (Not just the cost of his salary, imagine the cost of implementation of this thing.)

    8. Re:the sky is falling! by BeanThere · · Score: 1

      That would be "her"self in this case.

    9. Re:the sky is falling! by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Totally! Besides, it makes a nifty parabolic dish for their underground thought scanners. Everything is done from underground these days. I thought by now everybody knew the satellites were a ruse. They haven't used them since the Roswell aliens had Kennedy assassinated. Of course the real issue is that they are embedding nano RFID thought scanners right into the tinfoil now. Why do you think they warn you not to microwave tinfoil? Where do you think those sparks come from?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    10. Re:the sky is falling! by OrangeMonkey11 · · Score: 1

      Very nice HMROTF

    11. Re:the sky is falling! by jank1887 · · Score: 3, Funny

      But... he has people skills!

    12. Re:the sky is falling! by mcgrew · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well hey, Linda used a cell phone and she died of cancer! Funny how a cell phone can cause a cancer on your gall bladder...

      TFA said something about studies showing a link, but I haven't read about any of those studies. The ones I've read about showed no correlation at all. Odd that TFA mentioned studies showing a link but didn't point to a single one.

    13. Re:the sky is falling! by joocemann · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just a lameass politician trying to make a name for himself.

      Next will be the "Vaccines cause Autism" warnings, the "Aspartame makes you Fat" warnings and the "Fluoride in the water is a Mind Control Drug" warnings.

      They really should have a "Politics makes you a fuckhead" warning. .

      I agree. A search for published science (from university library resources) that would indicate a connection between cell phone EMR and brain tumors/cancer yielded NO DATA OR ARTICLES for the argument.

      What I did find was that there were two large scale studies done in 2000-2001 that showed there was no difference between cell use and not. Since then, no published work for or against.
      ---

      I'm not saying it isn't possible, but I'm definitely guessing it isn't probable and that I'll need a lot more FACTS before I'm going to believe this...

      Why?

      The big bang is still hitting us with EMR. The sun. Power lines. Satellite television hits us at every square inch of this planet. Radio waves, analog and digital are everywhere. And so you know, the powerlines don't stop outside your house, they go in your house and all around your rooms, and when you've got something on, the power going to that thing is making an EMR field.

      Also the EMR from cell phones is noted to not be able to break chemical bonds. That means it cannot damage any molecules in your body, including DNA.
      ----

      As it stands, I'm much more worried about our diet, our environment, our politics, our use of resources, and things like Cigarettes.... but that is because I have a set PRIORITY that puts the most SERIOUS things at the top of the list.

      What is more likely to kill you? Cell phone (maybe) caused brain tumors (as rare as that probably is, if at all), or congestive heart failure from poor diet. Or what about a car accident? Hell, we're not even taking the effects of hormone interference from manmade substances like BPA seriously, despite having wide areas of affect on sperm count and immasculation due to accumulation in water supplies.

      Cell phone brain tumors are in the least of my worries.

    14. Re:the sky is falling! by nomadic · · Score: 1

      "Aspartame makes you Fat"

      Actually, there is legitimate research showing that.

    15. Re:the sky is falling! by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      The big bang is still hitting us with EMR. The sun. Power lines. Satellite television hits us at every square inch of this planet. Radio waves, analog and digital are everywhere. And so you know, the powerlines don't stop outside your house, they go in your house and all around your rooms, and when you've got something on, the power going to that thing is making an EMR field.

      The difference is proximity and intensity. A cell phone has to emit a signal strong enough to hit the nearest tower - and when the phone's in use, it does this on a constant basis, and (the way most people use their phone) the transmitter also happens to be right next to your head. The inverse square pattern of signal intensity means there's a huge difference between environmental sources of EMR and local ones.

      That said, I think it's stupid to require warnings on cell phones when it hasn't been clearly established that the danger is real.

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    16. Re:the sky is falling! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You actually believe they would let someone like MIT prove that tinfoil hats work?

    17. Re:the sky is falling! by mini+me · · Score: 2, Informative

      Isn't that true of all people on government? All of the laws that we really need were written hundreds, if not thousands, of years ago.

    18. Re:the sky is falling! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      GPS Receivers never "emit GPS signals".
        The principle of their operation relies on the reception of broadcasts from GPS satellites.
      The satellites aren't even able to themselves locate the GPS receivers which they help to position.

    19. Re:the sky is falling! by Simonics+Zsolt · · Score: 0

      Whooooosh

    20. Re:the sky is falling! by lenester · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      With who? Looks to me like you're the only one who responded. :)

      Hell, from what I've seen, Ron Paul would probably wear it if a non-profane word were substituted.

    21. Re:the sky is falling! by clone53421 · · Score: 1, Redundant

      He was responding because of the flamebait moderation that has since been overridden by funny.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    22. Re:the sky is falling! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I find your ideas intriguing, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. (I KNOW YOU'RE WATCHING)

    23. Re:the sky is falling! by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      That's qualitative reasoning for a question that ought have a quantitative answer. The energy your cell phone dumps into your head should be well-known. How about estimates for radio, TV, etc?

    24. Re:the sky is falling! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Not according to the FDA or the ACSH or MIT, among others. On the other hand, überquack Mercola and the holistic nutters agree. Basically, the aspartame thing is just like the vaccine thing: scientists with evidence versus quacks who try to dress their bias up as information. Sure, aspartame tastes like dog shit, but (unless you have a certain rare genetic disorder), it isn't dangerous.

    25. Re:the sky is falling! by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      But people buy into it. I want a warning label that voteing for this chowder head causes cancer. I have as much proof as he has. Same for the Mayor of SF.
      Really people this is just too much.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    26. Re:the sky is falling! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well put.

      However, if in fact cell phones DO cause brain cancer, I'm honestly indifferent. I figure this planet has too many people all ready. Wiping out a couple 100 million would probably do us a service in the short, and the long run. I'm a progressive though, so my views are quite slanted.

      /tongue
      //check

    27. Re:the sky is falling! by turbotroll · · Score: 1

      What makes Mercola an überquack?

    28. Re:the sky is falling! by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>What I did find was that there were two large scale studies done in 2000-2001 that showed there was no difference between cell use and not. Since then, no published work for or against.

      There was a large one that came out a couple weeks ago that also found no correlation.

      The types of things that people have found that indicates it causes tumors is all circumstantial, like what side of the head brain tumors appear on.

    29. Re:the sky is falling! by naasking · · Score: 2, Informative

      If the studies aren't convincing enough, just read up on the physics to see why cell phone radiation is not dangerous.

    30. Re:the sky is falling! by lucifig · · Score: 1

      Um, I dont' think so. Without congress who would revamp the current College BCS system or investigate steroids in baseball?

    31. Re:the sky is falling! by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1, Troll

      How about a warning that "Jumping to conclusions makes you look stupid!"

      Does a cell phone emit radiation? Yes. Does radiation cause cancer? Almost certainly yes. Need examples of other handheld devices causing cancer in situations similar to those in which cell phones are used?

      Google for testicular cancer among police. Cops with radar guns, sitting in the confines of a car, often lay that damned gun on their lap while talking on the radio, or driving. A radiation emitting device laying on your balls is quite likely to do strange things to your ball cells.

      Now, extrapolate. Do you REALLY want to hold that damned cell phone up to your ear? How many hours per day are you willing to hold it there?

      I'll pass, thank you very much. No, I don't need a boatload of proof that cell phones cause cancer. Just a little bit of common sense goes a long way.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    32. Re:the sky is falling! by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 0

      I know how GPS works, and it DOES emit a signal. It doesn't emit its longitude or latitude, I know. It merely acts as a beacon, and if a GPS Satellite has it within it's range, It does it's best to calculate its distance from you in signal strength. If enough Satellites have you within range, they use the strength of the signal and their own relative positioning to calculate where you are. Thing of it like a Ven Diagram which overlaps, but also has the complexit of 3D space.

      Point is, my comment above Whooshed so fast over your head your ears are still ringing.

    33. Re:the sky is falling! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One thing to understand is that most (any?) cancer risk is incremental and dependent on chronic exposure. Time has yet to bear out what the real risks are, and research is ongoing. That said, I do not see any reason why a warning should not be in place. You have the right to know (at least in California) if you might be exposed to anything that might increase your incremental risk of cancer. I like proposition 65, and I would vote for it again if it were passed in front of me. There's no reason information regarding the possibility of the development of a chronic disease should be withheld from a consumer. You should provide all of the available factual information, and let them decide if they want to possibly increase their incremental cancer risk by using a particular device.

      As for background radiation, I concede that we absorb EMR constantly from many things around us. That doesn't mean one shouldn't be provided the information to manage the risk, above baseline, that they may expose themselves to by day-to-day activities. That's just what a responsible society does. That said, I tend to put my cell phone in my pocket, next to my nads, and do not use a headset. If any incremental risk is added, i've decided to take the stupid route and possibly effect not only my brain, but also my balls. But that's my prerogative. That's my decision based on what I know of RF and EMR, and I will admit that it might lead to some kind of cancer down the road.

      So again, what's wrong with providing the information? Are you afraid people will stop using cell phones? Why do you care that much? I doubt you work for the cell phone industry. Does it represent a "nanny government"? If that's the case, I think that's bullshit, too. There are not propositions on the table to outlaw cell phones, just provide consumers with a datapoint to base decisions on.

    34. Re:the sky is falling! by VitaminB52 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Warning: "Politics makes you a fuckhead"

      I think politicians really really should wear this Turing-test T-shirt.

    35. Re:the sky is falling! by clone53421 · · Score: 2

      Dude... it was better when I thought you were just being funny. You obviously don’t know how GPS works.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    36. Re:the sky is falling! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everything is done from underground these days.

      Ah, the NegaHertz band.

    37. Re:the sky is falling! by Capt.DrumkenBum · · Score: 1

      Apparently certain folds will actually amplify certain frequencies!

      That is what they want you to believe! They got to you didn't they!

      --
      If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
    38. Re:the sky is falling! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but that's what you WANT us to believe!

    39. Re:the sky is falling! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because as we know, all radiation is the same thing. No matter what kind it is, it will penetrate into the deepest parts of your body, destroy your DNA, give you cancer, turn your cat into a mutant, eat all the food in your fridge, steal your girlfriend, and spread nasty rumors about the size of your genitals. Therefore it is imperative to avoid all radiation, including gamma rays, x-rays, microwaves, radio waves, infrared, and visible light!

      A little bit of common sense goes a long way, but real conclusions require thought.

    40. Re:the sky is falling! by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      I don't think he'd appreciate it. Clearly a large group had to work together to get these t-shirts made and sent to all those politicians. Scary stuff.

    41. Re:the sky is falling! by Mitchell314 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ionizing radiation increase your risk of cancer. Ionizing radiation screws up all kinds of stuff. Ionizing radiation gets inside your cells.

      Problem is, cell phone signals are *nowhere* near ionizing.

      Common sense does go a long way. But you have to have at least a basic grasp of the concepts involved.

      --
      I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
    42. Re:the sky is falling! by Idiomatick · · Score: 2

      But there has been a lot of science done and it shows that there is little or no correlation. So I imagine it isn't as obvious as you think.

      This is a perfect example of an is-ought fallacy or a naturalistic fallacy:
      "I don't need a boatload of proof that cell phones cause cancer. Just a little bit of common sense goes a long way."

      Science trumps common sense. If it didn't the earth would likely still be the center of the universe. And anything at the subatomic scale would probably just be left as 'magic'.

    43. Re:the sky is falling! by Idiomatick · · Score: 1

      Brita is a German company though, it is named after a little German girl. The rest seems sensible though.

    44. Re:the sky is falling! by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/study_cell_phone_cancer_link_D1uu62C2zscTFCnzQTeZwO
      http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,569465,00.html

      As I said - jumping to conclusions . . .

      There are no studies that prove things either way, but the WHO thinks there is enough correlation to be concerned.

      It's hard to take one study really seriously, when similar studies by another group of people find reason to worry.

      As for me, I'll not be holding anything up my ear that emits energy. If it has speakers and microphone that I can hold at arm's length, I'll consider using it.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    45. Re:the sky is falling! by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      That's just what they want you to think.

    46. Re:the sky is falling! by joocemann · · Score: 2, Insightful

      WARNING: IF YOU HAVE PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUES, OR DO NOT BELIEVE YOU DO, BUT HAVE BEEN TOLD YOU HAVE PSYCHOLOGICAL ISSUES, READING THIS THREAD MAY TRIGGER A STRANGE UNEXPLAINED PSYCHOTIC RESPONSE INVOLVING THE KILLING OF FRIENDS AND STRANGERS, AND POSSIBLY YOURSELF. READER BEWARE! (This is explained later)

      You're an Anonymous Coward, and I don't normally reply to these because for all I know i'm just talking into thin air... I have no way of knowing if you understood or are even listening anymore.

      But because it is important for me to clear this up, I will reply.
      ----

      The REASON, which I thought was quite clear in my post, that there doesn't need to be a warning label is that there is NO SIGNIFICANT FACTS to make the risk any more than zero.

      I'm not in denial here, I'm a scientist. I love facts and would gladly appreciate being provided with reliable sources to show me why I should get rid of my cell. Believe me, I want to know these things too.

      But with that said, if everything tells me its ok and NOTHING tells me it isn't, well its hard to justify a warning for that. If that were the case, you'd have to put warnings on EVERYTHING simply because we can imagine a possibility, with or without any necessity for EVIDENCE.

      I make some words capital for a reason, because they are important. It is 'possible' for my response in this to somehow trigger a psychotic experience in a reader, who may then go on a killing rampage ending in suicide... Do I need to put a warning on this post?

      WARNING: READING ENGLISH TEXT IN BLACK FONT WITH WHITE BACKGROUND, PROJECTED FROM LCD AND CRT MONITORS MAY LEAD TO PERMANENT VISION IMPAIRMENT. READ WITH CAUTION, MY RESPONSE MAY BE HURTING YOU.

      WARNING: READING WHILE DRINKING OR CONSUMING EDIBLES MAY BE DANGEROUS; BY DISTRACTION, ONE MAY ENCOUNTER A SITUATION OF INHALATION OF FLUID AND DRWON, OR POSSIBLY NOT FULLY MASTICATE THE CONSUMABLE, CREATING A CHOKING HAZARD. IF YOU ARE EATING, READ WITH CAUTION.
      ---

      And while some of the sarcastic examples I gave may actually have even a smidgeon of actual fact to validate them (note the cellphone/cancer data does not exist), they hardly necessitate a warning label.

    47. Re:the sky is falling! by joocemann · · Score: 1

      I understand those things. It is good to point those out, as they are relevant. But with that said, I will echo your last line there... there isn't any data to establish any real danger here at all.

      And as I saw one person replied to you, what you've suggested is easily quantifiable and can thus be looked at for somewhat-safe interpretations and theories.

    48. Re:the sky is falling! by IgnorantGuru · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      It's amazing how otherwise intelligent people will wrap themselves in deep denial because a) admitting the truth would require giving up pleasure, and b) they subscribe to very poor sources of information - namely corporations that don't care one bit about their health. Same way it took so long for the truth about cigarettes to come out - big money backing a lie and people willfully in denial.

      Holding a powerful microwave transmitter against your head is going to have effects. In Europe they use something called the precautionary principle, whereby things are banned and considered dangerous with less evidence, just in case. After all, why play games with your health, and especially your children's health (as they are less informed about the dangers of these 'toys')? Funny thing - not once has the precautionary principle turned out to be unwarranted.

      Look up Dr. Nick Begich - a brilliant researcher with tons of data on his website on this and other relationships between technology and the human body. I've seen Dr. Begich speak and he is no fool.
      http://www.earthpulse.com/src/category.asp?catid=13

      Regardless, many people would rather risk their health - they do in so many other ways from eating nasty chemicals posing as food to lack of exercise. Why should this be any different? So easy to believe those studies paid for by the cell phone industry, and reported on by big $$$ media corporations (both of which happen to be owned by the same conglomerates).

      And for the record, fluoride was indeed used to subdue POWs by the Nazis, who also considered putting it in public water supplies for the same purpose. It was used to inhibit thyroid function at doses lower than what is in toothpaste. Educate yourself for real before you speak trash. Fluoride is highly nasty stuff. Same for the mercury in vaccines which is indeed linked to autism.

      Y'all aren't as brilliant as you imagine, just very clever at living in and justifying denial. Cleverness does not equal intelligence. Cleverness makes bombs; intelligence discards them.

    49. Re:the sky is falling! by mhajicek · · Score: 1
      Mine merely acts as a bacon.

      Push button.

    50. Re:the sky is falling! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, well, opening a text document and typing in "I KNOW YOU'RE WATCHING" will annoy them a lot if they are indeed watching. So does setting up a web cam with reliable motion detection and send images of intruders to several email accounts. Oh, and while we're at it: Sealing your PC's case in a way that it cannot be broken by accident but needs to be broken when it is opened and making sure the seal is not easy to fake will be very annoying, too. Of course, this only works when your really being watched.

    51. Re:the sky is falling! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Posting AC for obvious reasons)

      > You take some regular household tinfoil (...)

      It's a well-known fact that tinfoil production has been compromised by the American Military-Industrial Complex since 1975 worldwide; regular tinfoil won't do diddly-squat against their mind-reading and mind-control devices. The only hope you have is certified pre-1975 tinfoil of Swiss origin, although this has been kind of difficult to procure lately.

      Now for the real shocker: Tooth fillings. They have teamed up with ~]"?a(%

    52. Re:the sky is falling! by BikeHelmet · · Score: 1

      I agree. A search for published science (from university library resources) that would indicate a connection between cell phone EMR and brain tumors/cancer yielded NO DATA OR ARTICLES for the argument.

      That's because the studies are stupid.

      I remember reading a study saying that cancer rates were identical in a town with tons of nasty pollution spewing pulp mills.

      However, everyone I know that used to live in that town(and moved away because of the stench) died of cancer in their 50's or 60's. Everyone I know that knows people from there also knows people that died of cancer. These people that moved away bump up the cancer rates in other locations, and lower it there, because they no longer live there.

      Same thing with cell phones. If you've always used a cellphone, you've had constant exposure, which raises your odds of random mutations and ultimately brain cancer. Also keep in mind the power output of the cell. Older cellphones had badass transmitters and huge antenna on them, so in the past the odds of them causing cancer was quite high. (though still hard to prove)

      Also, it's not rocket science. My opinion is cellphones cause cancer... as does getting too much sunlight, too little sunlight, going on a plane, eating foods you can't properly digest, lacking trace minerals(these are important for stuff like proper cell duplication), etc.

      Really, there isn't much you can do that doesn't cause cancer. The question is, do cellphones affect it significantly? Smoking raises the odds of getting lung cancer hugely. If you don't die of something else, you'll get lung cancer eventually. Is a cellphone a big risk? That's for you to decide.

    53. Re:the sky is falling! by dilvish_the_damned · · Score: 1

      If enough Satellites have you within range, they use the strength of the signal and their own relative positioning to calculate where you are. Thing of it like a Ven Diagram which overlaps, but also has the complexit of 3D space.

      I think maybe you have your Numb3rs confused. GPS satellites simply don't give a shit where you are. Its your Sprints that track you, not your Magellans.

      --
      I think you underestimate just how much I just dont care.
    54. Re:the sky is falling! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's just what he *wants* you to think

    55. Re:the sky is falling! by DurendalMac · · Score: 1

      Better turn all the lights off and hide in a lead-lined cave.

    56. Re:the sky is falling! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mine merely acts as a bacon.

      Mmmm, bacon GPS. ::drool::

    57. Re:the sky is falling! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter

    58. Re:the sky is falling! by iggymanz · · Score: 4, Funny

      since you thing anything with "radiation" is bad, I have dire warning for you, your ear is less than 30 mm from a 150 watt infrared radiation source! better rip that 3.5 kilogram source off your ear, stuff it into a bio-hazard bag, and incinerate it now! you won't miss the thing, you're not using it anyway.

    59. Re:the sky is falling! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd be here all night if I listed all the ways that Mercola is a first rate crank, so for starters, read this, and the other things it links to at the bottom, then take your pick from this list. In a nutshell, Mercola is anti-science and proud of it, and preaches his dangerously irrational beliefs to the unsuspecting. That's what makes him an überquack.

    60. Re:the sky is falling! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Warning: "Politics makes you a fuckhead"

      "That should totally be made into a T-Shirt"

      And ALL politicians should be forced to wear one, and have it clearly visible at all times!

      Actually it should say
      "Warning: Politics makes you a fuckhead" on the front, and
      "Living Example!" on the back!!!!!

    61. Re:the sky is falling! by Roogna · · Score: 1

      ... "Fluoride in the water is a Mind Control Drug" warnings. .

      You know, I'd almost buy into this one. Have you gone outside and actually talked to other people in the past few years? I'd say the number of people per "decade" age range that are dumb as bricks increases astronomically once you reach age ranges that have always drank fluoridated water. Perhaps making people stupid is really a secret mind control plot.

      Of course, correlation != causation, they could just be dumb as bricks. ;)

    62. Re:the sky is falling! by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      The big bang is still hitting us with EMR. The sun. Power lines. Satellite television hits us at every square inch of this planet. Radio waves, analog and digital are everywhere. And so you know, the powerlines don't stop outside your house, they go in your house and all around your rooms, and when you've got something on, the power going to that thing is making an EMR field.

      And your cell phone is more powerful than all of those from the point of view of your body. In almost every case, its in use and you are physically touching it.

      Also, all radio signals are analog. They may carry digital data on top of the signal, but all radio signals are analog.

      You're worried about Cigarettes which have been studied for years, but you blow off cell phone concerns, which haven't even been around long enough to hold a valid study on, seems rather premature to me.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    63. Re:the sky is falling! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I work in the water industry.

      I tend to agree that fluoridation is a scam. I am unconvinced that fluoridated water has any significant positive effect on dental health (and the fact that excessive levels of fluoride will negatively impact dental health is well-known, that is, fluoride levels over 2 PPM).

      However, fluoride is a naturally-occurring ion. All water sources will naturally contain a certain level of fluoride. Whether or not it has any negative impact on health at such low levels is also uncertain.

      The optimum fluoride level according to both water quality and dental associations is 1 PPM. The naturally-occurring fluoride level varies widely from source to source; the utility at which I work gets raw water with naturally occurring levels of around 0.5 PPM and adds fluoride to bring it into the 0.8-1.1 PPM range.

      While I personally feel that fluoridated water is just another poker chip for politicians to hold so they can claim to be "thinking of the children", but is relatively worthless in reality, I also am not convinced that this is significantly detrimental to our health. If so, what would you have us do... remove the fluoride that naturally occurs too? (De-fluoridation is expensive, by the way.)

      And now I am ticking the "post anonymously" checkbox and submitting this without wasting any more time on it...

    64. Re:the sky is falling! by mog007 · · Score: 1

      Common sense tells me that the Earth is flat, and the immovable center of the universe.

      Oh, that's right, in the modern age we reject common sense for evidence!

    65. Re:the sky is falling! by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Mathematics tells me that the earth is (nearly) flat in a spherical system of coordinates, and it doesn’t make a bit of difference whether or not it moves since all motion is relative to one’s point of reference anyway.

      Silly scientists.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    66. Re:the sky is falling! by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

      That's qualitative reasoning for a question that ought have a quantitative answer. The energy your cell phone dumps into your head should be well-known. How about estimates for radio, TV, etc?

      True. My point was simply that one can't write off the potential impact of having a radio transmitter next to your head for extended periods just because there is environmental EM radiation to which we're exposed. You would have to consider the apparent intensity of the source that comes with proximity.

      I'm not really in the mood to do a back-of-the-envelope calculation of signal strength at the moment... I was actually just nitpicking a flaw in the structure of the argument, not contesting its message.

      --
      Bow-ties are cool.
    67. Re:the sky is falling! by ikeman32 · · Score: 1

      They really should have a "Politics makes you a fuckhead" warning.

      LOL, now that would be cool.

      And for the politically correct version: "Warning use of Politicians may be hazardous to your IQ. Politicians contain high doses of Politics which have been known to cause severe deficiencies in common sense in otherwise intelligent people."

    68. Re:the sky is falling! by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      Yes, well, the person you were responding to did make exactly the same mistake.

    69. Re:the sky is falling! by joocemann · · Score: 1

      The big bang is still hitting us with EMR. The sun. Power lines. Satellite television hits us at every square inch of this planet. Radio waves, analog and digital are everywhere. And so you know, the powerlines don't stop outside your house, they go in your house and all around your rooms, and when you've got something on, the power going to that thing is making an EMR field.

      And your cell phone is more powerful than all of those from the point of view of your body. In almost every case, its in use and you are physically touching it.

      Also, all radio signals are analog. They may carry digital data on top of the signal, but all radio signals are analog.

      You're worried about Cigarettes which have been studied for years, but you blow off cell phone concerns, which haven't even been around long enough to hold a valid study on, seems rather premature to me.

      EMR has been around long enough to study, and cell phones have a measurable amount of EMR.

      There are numerous studies to show the FACTS relating to cigarettes, and so that is definitely and clearly important. And, like I said, there are NO FACTS on cell phones.

      Be skeptic. Take note. Give it time and do longer studies. But as it stands, there is no REASON to be afraid here. No REASON for a warning.

      I would define the word 'reason', but I might get modded troll for it. I hope you know what it means to have a reason.

    70. Re:the sky is falling! by joocemann · · Score: 1

      Show me some facts and I will gladly accept them. You said some things, such as "same thing with cell phones..." but you've given me no facts to back it. I hope you're not just spewing a skeptical opinion from an ignorant assumption... Like I replied in another part of this discussion, I am a scientist and I will gladly accept any facts or research to support the cellphones/cancer stuff. I have a cell phone and something of that nature would be important for me to know.

      Unfortunately there are no facts. I'm arguing for the sake of REASON here. I'm not saying it isn't possible, but based on everything we know so far it isn't probable at all.

      Please give me some facts. Some reliable research. I can't find any and I would appreciate it greatly.

    71. Re:the sky is falling! by BikeHelmet · · Score: 1

      If there's any research, it's probably buried. Cellphones are a multi-billion dollar industry - quarterly - for many, many companies.

      Use your head. I wasn't trying to convince you of anything. I told you to make your own decision.

    72. Re:the sky is falling! by joocemann · · Score: 1

      If there's any research, it's probably buried. Cellphones are a multi-billion dollar industry - quarterly - for many, many companies.

      Use your head. I wasn't trying to convince you of anything. I told you to make your own decision.

      Scientific research is not buried. Like I said, I have university access to LOTS of resources.

      What you are saying is that you weren't trying to be RATIONAL/REASONABLE, and you want me to make my own decision on your completely FACTLESS skepticism.

      The thing I"m curious about is this.... how much do you actually know that would qualify you to even know what you are talking about, and what specifically it is that you saw or learned regarding cell phones that compels you to say the things that you do, but not prove it to me. Are you getting your own opinion out of thin air? Show me what you saw that made you believe it. I hope you've got something to show for it.

  2. insanity by haruharaharu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Scientists don't agree, no real studies confirm the notion, and the biggest reason in favor of this is 'they get warm'. Of course they get warm - the battery is discharging.

    --
    Reboot macht Frei.
    1. Re:insanity by broken_chaos · · Score: 4, Informative

      no real studies confirm the notion

      Not stopping there, there is at least one major study that shows no significant link between cellphones and cancer -- not just a lack of any confirmation.

      They should keep these sort of 'warning' labels to items that have solid, reproducible evidence of significant increases in risks of cancer -- like cigarettes. If they start slapping them on everything that they (in their position as 'a legislator') think might cause cancer, these sort of warnings will lose all meaning.

    2. Re:insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But that's RADIATION! And ATOMS are doing it! I don't need your degree in bullshitology to understand those simple facts, Mr. Scientist.

    3. Re:insanity by Iyonesco · · Score: 1

      This was from a book of ridiculous exam answers in UK exams:

      http://i45.tinypic.com/eqp46d.jpg

      What shocked me was not the answer but the question. It seems the UK government doesn't care about investigation or evidence and simply takes the stance that "the science is decided". If anyone questioned this they would no doubt just employ some "scientists" to manipulate the data and backup their per-conceived assumptions.

    4. Re:insanity by D+Ninja · · Score: 1

      Not stopping there, there is at least one major study [slashdot.org] that shows no significant link between cellphones and cancer -- not just a lack of any confirmation.

      Your quote reminds me of a very excellent movie that (sort of) brings up this exact same topic. Check out Thank You for Smoking. It's also a pretty good movie, too.

    5. Re:insanity by JerryLove · · Score: 1

      While I agree that there's no causation there: I'm still incredulous that a 15% increase in brain cancer (0.5% per year * 30 years) is concluded by the study as "insignifigant".

      I'd love to see the year-by-year breakdown (it's not like there were cellphones in 1974).

      I'm not saying that cellphones cause cancer (though my own non-brain cancer was directly under where I carried mine), but I am questioning whether the cited study has any useful information either way.

    6. Re:insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They'll lose all meaning like the ubiquitous Prop 65 placards around California.

    7. Re:insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's insignificant because it didn't happen everywhere. I can find you an area with a 15% increase in lupus if I'm allowed to cherry-pick the data enough.

    8. Re:insanity by gnick · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Just to nit-pick a bit, 0.5% per year over 30 years is actually a little over 16%. But that was only in men - 0.2% per year in women. So that's an increase of ~11% in the overall population.

      Personally, I'm leaning toward the "We're getting better at identifying brain tumors" camp, but 11% does seem like a lot and the large discrepancy between men and women is a little distressing.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    9. Re:insanity by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      That was not considered as "insignificant", the correlation with cell phones was.

      The entire conclusion was that yes their was an increase in cancer cancers over time, but the increase started before cell phones existed and didn't change once they became popular. Hence that increase is not correlated to cell phone usage (let alone caused by). Well OK it did see a spike in the 90s, but amongst 60+ year old women, not exactly the demographic you'd pick for if the cause was cell phone use.

      Seems the simple standard explanation of why disease X is increasing in occurrence:

      1. Better X detection methods resulting in more cases found.
      2. Better treatments of other things that previously killed you before you got X.

    10. Re:insanity by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      It may be insignificant to the posed hypothesis. I'm sure it's in TFA (the linked one, not the one in the story), but if the 15% increase was observed in both the control and the test group (ie, in both people who didn't and people who did use cellphones), then it is irrelevant in determining if the phones cause cancer. It may show that an additional study might be interesting to show exactly what IS causing the increase in cancer though.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    11. Re:insanity by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      Maybe RJ Reynolds and friends lobbied for this?

    12. Re:insanity by lorenlal · · Score: 1

      Insignificant can mean that the population as a whole experienced a similar increase independent of cellphone usage.

      It's certainly not insignificant that there was an overall 15% increase, it's just not likely that cellphones were the culprit.

    13. Re:insanity by broken_chaos · · Score: 1

      The article linked to from the Slashdot story discusses this a bit in the "No Significant Pattern" subsection, noting that the trends didn't change much in the late 1990s (compared to the 1970s and 1980s) when cellphone usage increased far faster than the cancer rates -- the most anomalous change being a larger-than-average increase in tumors for women over 60 (who were stated to already be the most at-risk subgroup).

      It's not conclusive proof, of course, but it's a fairly solid correlation, particularly given the lack of any evidence that cellphones do cause cancer.

    14. Re:insanity by hoggoth · · Score: 1

      "Pot is deadly, and cell phones cause brain cancer."

      And we wonder why kids don't listen to anything we say.

      "Cocaine is deadly, and cigarettes cause lung cancer."

      --
      - For the complete works of Shakespeare: cat /dev/random (may take some time)
    15. Re:insanity by horza · · Score: 2, Funny

      However, there is no major study disproving a link between garden gnomes and cancer. In fact, extensive searching shows no studies at all from which we can infer they are being suppressed. Whether this cover-up is by the government or by corporations is yet to be determined, but in the mean time there is no harm in warning the public that garden gnomes MIGHT cause cancer. And possibly syphilis.

      Phillip.

    16. Re:insanity by interploy · · Score: 1

      Actually,it's a bit too late for that. There have been a few studies that indicate warning labels on cigarettes and alcohol have little, if any, effect on keeping people from smoking or drinking. And considering the prevalence of cell phones, I doubt any measure would have an effect on usage until there is concrete evidence that it causes cancer. And even then... just look at the tobacco industry.

    17. Re:insanity by juhaz · · Score: 1

      What's really shocking is that someone picked up a _correct_ answer to a ridiculous question into ridiculous answers book.

    18. Re:insanity by Rufty · · Score: 2, Funny

      Warning: may contain nuts.

      --
      Red to red, black to black. Switch it on, but stand well back.
    19. Re:insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      RF Power amps are only 50 percent efficient at best. Half of the power into the final amplifier is converted to heat.

    20. Re:insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      11% isn't much for a quite rare cancer.

      A quick google for one type of brain cancer (meningioma) gets emedicine saying: "The annual incidence of symptomatic meningiomas is approximately 2 cases per 100,000 individuals."

      So that's moving from 0.002% to 0.0022%. That's margin of error stuff if anything is. And that's ignoring the fact that you can't legitimately do the extrapolation to 30 years that you did.

    21. Re:insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 30 year extrapolation was from TFA.

    22. Re:insanity by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      Get a phone. Take the battery out. Hold it up to your head as though having a conversation on it. Yes, you look funny. Keep having your pretend conversation, for several minutes. You don't actually need to talk, just hold that phone to the side of your head.

      (a couple of minutes pass)

      Okay, you can stop now. The phone is warm. What? But it doesn't even have a battery in it! How can this be? Could it be that holding a small plastic box to the side of the part of your body that radiates the most head could actually... warm it up?

    23. Re:insanity by fastest+fascist · · Score: 1

      Who needs scientists when so many other countries have hare-brainedly agreed that cellphones may cause cancer?

    24. Re:insanity by Ultimate+Heretic · · Score: 1

      And since my hat makes my head warm and my pillow selectively warms one side of my head, they must be cancer causing agents as well. If you hold a cell phone that is OFF against your head for 1/2 hour, bet you it and your ear feels warm too. Better ban those ear muffs. I guess the only cure is to go nude and live under a pavillion so the excess body heat can be carried out by the wind.

    25. Re:insanity by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      could it be that 3W radio by your head running for 10-20 minutes?

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    26. Re:insanity by hypergreatthing · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure that thinking about this new bill has given me brain cancer. Can i slap a warning on a politician? Or can i just nix the warning and slap them anyways?

    27. Re:insanity by R2.0 · · Score: 1

      "They should keep these sort of 'warning' labels to items that have solid, reproducible evidence of significant increases in risks of cancer -- like cigarettes. If they start slapping them on everything that they (in their position as 'a legislator') think might cause cancer, these sort of warnings will lose all meaning."

      You mean like in California? Since they passed a law that says that anything that may cause cancer must be labeled, EVERYTHING is getting a label. Why? Because with the sensitivity of current analytical instruments you can find a cancer causeing substance anywhere, even if it's less than micrograms.

      The last time I visited, I parked my car in a garage with a big sign on it that says "Warning: this building may contain substances known in the State of California to cause cancer." Really? No shit.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    28. Re:insanity by mahadiga · · Score: 1

      Sometime back I read that Cancer will be prevented if you drink http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomegranate juice everyday.

      --
      I'd like to buy homeland for our 10 million people. http://twitter.com/mahadiga
    29. Re:insanity by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      How is it producing 3W with the battery removed?

    30. Re:insanity by mog007 · · Score: 1

      The taxpayers in the UK are funding a personal homeopathic "doctor" for the royal family. I think when it comes to science, you should look at anything BUT the government in England.

    31. Re:insanity by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Of course they get warm - the battery is discharging.

      What?! Never mind the radiation, it's the thought of all those chemicals about to leak into my ear that's really worrying.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    32. Re:insanity by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      garden gnomes MIGHT cause cancer. And possibly syphilis.

      Oops, should've worn a condom...

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  3. No proof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    If you want proof that cell phones cause brain damage, just listen to someone talking on one.

    1. Re:No proof? by maxume · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's not fair, at least listen to someone smart enough not to stand on the thing when they try to make a call.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:No proof? by Kierthos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would posit that using Twitter causes brain damage at a far faster rate and in greater numbers of users then cell phones.

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    3. Re:No proof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correlation != causation.

      More study would be needed to determine this. Myself, I'd postulate the opposite: brain damage causes people to talk on the cellphone, particularly in annoying ways and at inappropriate times.

      Even more research is needed to try and find the causation of the condition known as "texting".

    4. Re:No proof? by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      If you want proof that cell phones cause brain damage, just listen to someone talking on one.

      Inconclusive, unless you know what they were like before they got their cell phone.

      --
      Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
    5. Re:No proof? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Absolutely the truest reply.

  4. Warning message... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    How about, a warning message before and after the call

  5. Just like California by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

    All over the place they have signs saying "This facility may or may not contain cancer causing chemicals".

    May or May not. I'll tell ya, I HATE checking into a hotel and the first thing I see is one of those.

    1. Re:Just like California by gregarican · · Score: 4, Funny

      I recall smoking cheap cigars and reading the warning label on the packaging. It might cause cancer in the state of California. Glad I smoked 'em in Florida. Made me rest a hell of a lot easier, ya know?

    2. Re:Just like California by gnick · · Score: 2, Funny

      For one of the facilities where I work, I had to take site-specific safety training before they would issue me a key. Included in the training was a note that there "may be nitrogen present in the air". This was included due to LN2 tanks being present in the basement, but it's a sorry state of affairs when you have to warn people that they MAY inhale some nitrogen.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    3. Re:Just like California by bdcrazy · · Score: 1

      I think the big thing is that 'cancer' is now the boogieman. We're slowly getting rid of all sorts of things that used to kill us. We're living longer and healthier, yet cancer can kill anybody at anytime. So once you start getting rid of everything else, cancer is one of the few left. Sure heart disease is a big deal, but cancer, that is EVIL. My warning is thus: No matter what you do, you're gonna die. As a parting shot for the paranoid, staying in your house is hazardous because your roof COULD COLLAPSE!

      --
      Tonights forecast: Dark. Continued dark throughout most of the evening, with some widely-scattered light towards morning
    4. Re:Just like California by moichido · · Score: 1

      FLASH: 2015 California - The legislature has finally enabled legislation to have all infants tattooed with a warning on their wrists that states: "WARNING: Life may or may not be hazardous to your health". Proponents of the bill are ecstatic: "We have protected the children and they will not forget the warning even into adulthood."

    5. Re:Just like California by nsayer · · Score: 5, Informative

      Ironically, those LN2 tanks DO present a danger that is worth warning about. But the warning isn't that "nitrogen may be present," obviously. The issue is that a leaky LN2 tank in an enclosed space may wind up making nitrogen the ONLY gas present, which is extremely hazardous. You can pass out without feeling anything abnormal in advance, and then quickly suffocate. Nitrogen asphyxiation has been advocated as an execution method for this very reason, in fact. Two people died in a nitrogen asphyxiation accident at NASA some time ago. The second tried to rescue the first without first understanding what went wrong, and then succumbed himself (if I am remembering the story properly).

    6. Re:Just like California by clone53421 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Note that the burning sensation that we associate with suffocation is actually triggered by excessive CO2 levels.

      Hence the acute danger of asphyxiation when a compressed gas (other than CO2) is displacing the atmosphere – you don’t feel anything.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    7. Re:Just like California by camperdave · · Score: 0

      One of the labs at my workplace carries a warning that... [gasp!]... there may be oxygen present.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    8. Re:Just like California by kimvette · · Score: 1

      They're running safety training about equipment involving compressed gases and don't realize that we are always breathing 80% nitrogen already?!

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    9. Re:Just like California by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      I suggest making the warning read:

      "WARNING(666): Life may or may not be hazardous to your health"

      That way we can assign other numbers to other numbers for shorthand reference (and possibly to laugh at the christian fundamentalist reaction).

    10. Re:Just like California by mjwalshe · · Score: 4, Informative

      And your point is? if it leaked you could get a higher concentratin of O2 and beyond a certain point if you get a spark you get a very nasty fire this is how the Apollo 1 crew died.

    11. Re:Just like California by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      The breathing reflex is also mostly triggered by CO2 levels, not oxygen levels. So even if there's still sufficient oxygen in the air to keep you alive, you can die of asphyxiation because your body is quite content with it's CO2 level.

    12. Re:Just like California by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Are you sure that this is possible?

      The oxygen in your blood is constantly being replaced by CO2 as your body uses it... how would you end up running out of oxygen, and still not have a high enough CO2 level to force you to take another breath?

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    13. Re:Just like California by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Warning labels should clearly describe what the hazard is. Ideally, they should also state how the hazard can occur and whether any precautions are necessary to detect it.

      The warning label should say both:
      – the hazard (fire hazard)
      – the condition (high oxygen level)

      As I said, ideally it should also name:
      – the cause (leaking O2 tank)
      – the precautions necessary (oxygen monitor, sparkless instruments, ventilation)

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    14. Re:Just like California by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      It's a poor wording, but that's a very important warning. The presence of LN2 tanks presents a significant asphyxiation risk.

    15. Re:Just like California by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Both CO2 and O2 are exchanged through passive diffusion. Basically, the blood in your lungs tries to come to equilibrium with the air in your lungs (it's a little more complicated than that, but that's close enough). So if you keep the CO2 levels in the atmosphere low but also lower the O2 levels, the CO2 levels in your blood will stay more or less the same. You can also get much the same effect by maintaining the O2 levels but dropping the CO2 levels. In the first case you'll breath more or less normally even though you're not getting enough O2. In the second, your breathing will slow down, even though the O2 level isn't high enough to maintain such a slow respiration rate.

      Low blood CO2 is called hypocapnia.

      There's a phenomenon where people who hyperventilate before diving or swimming under water sometimes suddenly lose consciousness. Normal breathing keeps your blood O2 level about as high as it can get but hyperventilation can lower your CO2 blood level. That DOES let you stay under water longer, but if you push it to far during the dive your O2 level will drop far enough for you to pass out but you will not feel the need to breathe because your CO2 level is artificially lowered.

    16. Re:Just like California by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 1

      When I was on my highschool swimteam, a well known trick was to hyperventilate prior to diving underwater. Apparently hyperventilation temporarily decreases the CO2/O2 ratio in your bloodstream, allowing you to comfortably hold your breath longer. Eventually you will feel the need to go up for air, but if you are not careful you can begin to blackout before the sensation is overwelming (whereas normally it requires an incredible amount of willpower to drown yourself in shallow water.)

      For obvious reasons, I don't suggest you actually attempt this while underwater, but try timing yourself while sitting at your desk.

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    17. Re:Just like California by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Two people died in a nitrogen asphyxiation accident at NASA some time ago."

      Yes. It was an accident before the first shuttle launch. According to the wikipedia page on nitrogen asphyxiation, accidental nitrogen asphyxiation apparently accounts for about 8 deaths per year in the U.S.

      It might be simpler to think of this as the equivalent of drowning, but with a dangerous twist -- everybody knows that you'll ordinarily die within a few minutes if you are immersed in water, but the advantage there is the reaction of your body the moment it starts happening: you *know* you are drowning, and your body naturally reacts vigorously. It isn't so clear for many non-breathable gasses, where you may get no distinct clue that there is a problem until you are about to faint, and some people apparently experience no warnings at all due to oxygen hypoxia.

    18. Re:Just like California by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 2, Funny

      An ammendment to the bill requires a second tattoo, explaining the dangers of cancer associated with tattooing.

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    19. Re:Just like California by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The point is that there is no "MAY" about it. It's like putting a "may contain nuts" warning on a bag of peanuts.

    20. Re:Just like California by AshtangiMan · · Score: 1

      Or on the capitol building.

    21. Re:Just like California by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      If you want to go to the actual technical reason people die during 'suffocation' it isn't that they are deprived of oxygen, its that they can not expel the excess CO2 and effectively die of CO2 poisoning.

      If you can get rid of the CO2 you can live considerably longer with out O2, not enough to matter to most people, but its there.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    22. Re:Just like California by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      What you were doing is called lung packing. It doesn't change the ratio of anything and has very little immediate effect on your CO2/O2 levels.

      It does, on the other hand, result in storing more air in the lungs as well as doing a better job of getting a completely fresh batch of air in the lungs versus typical breathing where a good portion of the air stays in your lungs on each breath.

      This batch of fresh air, and the increased capacity are why you can hold your breath longer. On the other hand, the convulsions in your diaphragm will let you know you need to breath before you pass out. The convulsions are a direct result of CO2 build up not lack of oxygen. It should also be noted that doing this is a good way to tear your diaphragm or damage your lungs. When the convulsions start, stop fucking around unless you really want to flirt with death.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    23. Re:Just like California by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Your cells don't take in an O2 molecule in exchange for a CO2 molecule during the process. Your cells will continue to excrete CO2 for a while with no O2 intake, right up until cell death.

      You could start inhaling nitrogen ( as one of the posts up this chain suggests ) and you'll still exhale CO2 as the cells expel it.

      However, while CO2 is the primary driver of reflex breathing, it is not the only driver. CO2 build is up poisonous, as it builds up, the liquids in your body turn to acidic and then everything breaks down. A very painful experience if you're awake for it. So thats why CO2 is the primary driver.

      Your body however will try to get more oxygen in if its far too low as well, its just far easier to control that particular process and ignore it, since in almost every situation the human body has evolved to deal with, when theres an O2 shortage, there is an accompanying CO2 build up.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    24. Re:Just like California by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      That is a bad example.

      Peanuts are not nuts. People with allergies to nuts may not be allergic to peanuts – and conversely, people who are deathly allergic to peanuts may not be allergic to nuts.

      If you were allergic to nuts (or to peanuts) I wouldn’t even have to tell you this. You’d already know exactly what to look for on the packaging to tell whether you could safely eat something.

      That said, I do think it’s ridiculous to put warning labels about “WARNING, CONTAINS PEANUTS” on products with “peanut” in the name (like Reese’s peanut butter cups). ZOMG really?

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  6. Where's the Science? by gbutler69 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Where's the Science to support this claim? Everything I've read, including a more than 20 year study of cell-phone users, concludes that it is not the case. Without the science, he should SHUT THE FUCK UP! I am so sick and tired of everything being ruled my malicious ignorance and stupidity. All the people who refuse to use science (i.e. Obser-fucking-vation) to form policy, guide their actions, and make decisions, and would rather use tea leaves, bones, or the dingle-berries they pick out of their ass, need to FUCKING DIE!

    --
    Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
    1. Re:Where's the Science? by gregarican · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sounds like somebody's got a case of the Mondays...

    2. Re:Where's the Science? by gbutler69 · · Score: 1
      Correction...

      being ruled by malicious

      --
      Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
    3. Re:Where's the Science? by MozeeToby · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bah, since when are politicians logical, scientifically minded people? This is not exactly the age of Realpolitik (in its original meaning of practical, realistic, and effective; rather than it's more recent meaning of coercive, heavy handed, and amoral). The choices of our governments are based on religion, ideology, and vote pandering; much more so than they are based on what will actually accomplish our goals.

      As an example, it has been shown several times that handing out needles to IV drug users not only reduces disease but also, in the long run, reduces the number of addicts (since the users are meeting with trained counselors on a weekly basic to get their needles). Its even been shown to save money, since these users don't end up in the hospital later unable to pay their bills. Yet, any area that tries to start a program of supplying needles is denigrated and attacked. People say they are 'enabling' the users, when in fact their course of action has been shown effective in reducing drug use.

    4. Re:Where's the Science? by nsayer · · Score: 1

      All the people who refuse to use science (i.e. Obser-fucking-vation) to form policy, guide their actions, and make decisions, and would rather use tea leaves, bones, or the dingle-berries they pick out of their ass, need to FUCKING DIE!

      Preferably, of brain cancer.

    5. Re:Where's the Science? by ravenscar · · Score: 1

      The science is being expended on trying to figure out how to affix a massive cancer warning label to the Sun.

    6. Re:Where's the Science? by kimvette · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They're taking cues from the global warming alarmists.

      SHOW US THE DATA.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    7. Re:Where's the Science? by blueg3 · · Score: 1
    8. Re:Where's the Science? by demonbug · · Score: 2, Funny

      All the people who refuse to use science (i.e. Obser-fucking-vation) to form policy, guide their actions, and make decisions, and would rather use tea leaves, bones, or the dingle-berries they pick out of their ass, need to FUCKING DIE!

      Preferably, of brain cancer.

      Sadly, they are immune to brain cancer (for reasons that should be obvious).

    9. Re:Where's the Science? by macshit · · Score: 1

      Hmm, looks more like a case of "cell rage"...

      [Basically when somebody proposes any restriction on cell-phone use (e.g., putting cell suppressors in movie theaters), many people flip out, way beyond any rational response. It's like ... they simply cannot live without their cell phone for any length of time...]

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    10. Re:Where's the Science? by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      20 year study ... for devices that have only really be popular and provided a large enough dataset to study for 10-15 years ...

      Yea ... wheres the science ...

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    11. Re:Where's the Science? by gbutler69 · · Score: 1

      People have been using cell-phones for 20 years (at least).

      --
      Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
  7. Do not forget potato chips by cheesybagel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Fried foodstuffs contain known carcinogens. We should add this informative label to potato chips as well.

    1. Re:Do not forget potato chips by coaxial · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The carcinogen is acrylamide, and thanks to California's Prop 65, you can find labels on potato chips, and in fast food joints that read: "WARNING: This product contains chemicals known to the State of California to cause cancer."

      I always liked the "known to the State of California" part, like Maine isn't aware of carcinogens.

    2. Re:Do not forget potato chips by StikyPad · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The same way it's known to the State of California that having a clip capacity over 10 bullets will result in gang violence and mayhem, that actors make the best governors, and that gay marriage is an abomination.

    3. Re:Do not forget potato chips by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      You should have left the gay marriage thing off, since you know, they are far more progressive in that respect than oh say ... 40 or so other states in the nation.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    4. Re:Do not forget potato chips by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Marriage is, and always has been, a religious contract between a man and a woman.

      Why the state should be involved at all is a question that anyone can feel free to explain to me.

      If you want to make tax benefits for two people who are cohabiting, wonderful, but don’t use a criterion with an explicitly religious nature. I am religious myself and even I think that’s stupid.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  8. Warnign message by kevvraja · · Score: 0

    I prefer a warning message before and after the call

  9. There should be another warning by thomasdz · · Score: 4, Funny

    "Use of this device while travelling on public transit may cause people to hate you"

    --
    Karma: Excellent. 15 moderator points expire sometime.
    1. Re:There should be another warning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Use of this device while travelling on public transit may cause death or dismemberment"

      fixed that for you

    2. Re:There should be another warning by pgmrdlm · · Score: 0

      Use of this device while in public WILL cause death or dismemberment"

      --
      Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
  10. how about... by kellin · · Score: 4, Informative

    Who gives a flying leap? We're inundated with all sorts of things as we wander around this planet, and I for one think its a bunch of bollocks.

    And really --

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16059841

    If 420k danes dont have cancer from cell phone use, then nobody will.

    --
    GWB to President of Brazil - "You have blacks, too?"
    1. Re:how about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cool story bro.

      Nobody is going to read your link though, it explicitly states that the source is MSN. Not the most popular of sites round these parts.

      I guess when you have been here a little longer you'll find a few of these things out for yourself. It's no fun being the new guy, is it?

    2. Re:how about... by StikyPad · · Score: 2, Funny

      How do we know they're not some sort of superior race? Great Danes, if you will.

  11. So does everything else by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So does the slightly burnt toast you ate this morning, so does the air you breathe, perhaps the fish you eat or tap water you drink. Lame.

  12. Will this be covered by the public option? by a-zarkon! · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So does this mean that since my job requires me to carry a cell phone that my insurance rates will be going up? If I leave my job, will I be ineligible for future insurance coverage?

    On another topic, I notice in TFA that they reference using a headset instead of talking on the phone. So does this mean that Blue Tooth (which is in the 2.4 GHz range) has less of a health impact than the cellular radio? Here's a hint, Microwaves are in that magical 2.4 GHz range that is shared by WiFi and Blue Tooth. If I had to pick which antenna I'd rather have next to my head, it's probably not the same one that I use to warm my coffee and make popcorn.

    Instead of the headlines from the congress types and the opaque denials from the telecomm industry, is there any actual independent science on this? (There probably, is but I am far too lazy to Google).

    1. Re:Will this be covered by the public option? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think your insurance rates will be going up regardless my friend.

    2. Re:Will this be covered by the public option? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to be concerned with the frequency of the output, but you should be concerned with power. The bluetooth headset only needs to transmit and receive data data over a small distance, maybe 3 feet. The cell phone needs to transmit and receive data over a much larger distance. That requires significantly more power.

    3. Re:Will this be covered by the public option? by Minwee · · Score: 3, Funny

      On another topic, I notice in TFA that they reference using a headset instead of talking on the phone. So does this mean that Blue Tooth (which is in the 2.4 GHz range) has less of a health impact than the cellular radio?

      I heard that secret government labs were working on a special new kind of headset that uses on ordinary _wire_ to connect to a telephone.

      I can't imagine how they have solved all the problems of carrying complex audio signals through something as simple as a wire, but I still predict that this new, previously unheard of, "wirelessless" technology may catch on in a big way over the next twenty years.

    4. Re:Will this be covered by the public option? by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Bluetooth headsets have orders of magnitude lower radiated power than cellphones. They probably still influence the matter from which your head is composed much less, even if frequency is more conductive for heating (cellphones do that to)

      Not that it makes a difference anyway; at least BT headsets are more comfortable.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    5. Re:Will this be covered by the public option? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In fact your head gets less radiation from a bluetooth headset: The wire of a wired headset will act as an antenna guiding some of the energy emitted by your phone directly into your ear. So the safest bet would be something like a tiny hose from a speaker beneath the phone to your ear. Or something optical? like a laser directly reading out microphone vibration through fiberglass? and another one rapidly heating your headsets membrane to produce sound?

    6. Re:Will this be covered by the public option? by Plumber,+Programmer, · · Score: 1

      like a laser ... rapidly heating your headsets membrane to produce sound?

      Or just cut out the middleman, and just use the laser rapidly heating your head's membrane to produce sound.
      Of course, most of those sounds will be "OW!"

    7. Re:Will this be covered by the public option? by natehoy · · Score: 1

      Your cell phone, if it's in the US, probably operates at one of two ranges: 900MHz or 1800MHz. I think most of the newer ones use 1800MHz. So if you're worried about the frequency differential, there isn't THAT much of a gap between 1.8GHz and 2.4GHz, so if you've got a newer cell you're already soaking in higher-frequency RF. Especially in Europe, where the 3G networks switched from the old 900/1800MHz frequencies to 2100MHz (2.1GHz) years ago.

      The real concern, as others have mentioned, is power. Your cell phone puts out enough power to be heard by a tower that can be a couple of miles (a few KM) away. Your Bluetooth headset uses enough power to reach about 30 feet (10 meters). That's a very large difference in power. A Class II Bluetooth headset is probably on the order of 2.5mW (.0025 watts), while your average cell phone can be hundreds of times that amount.

      As far as the studies that debunk the cellphone - cancer link, especially the oft-cited Scandinavian one... Unfortunately, most of them I've seen cited are based on analog cell phones. The Scandinavian study cited above ran until 2003, which is the first year that EDGE came out. Coincidentally, the introduction of EDGE was also when the 2100MHz frequencies started coming into heavy use. So the Scandinavian study doesn't cover the time period that includes any EDGE or 3G services.

      So, while I don't know the current state of the science, keep in mind that the biggest, most cited study supporting "no link between cell and cancer" is a large-scale informal data aggregation that does not include data on the technology the phone you actually carry actually employs. It's rather like saying that airbags don't save lives because the horses that draw our carriages can't run fast enough to hurt anyone if there's a crash.

      The nature of the data aggregation in the oft-cited Scandinavian study also didn't attempt to track who actually uses cell phones and whether those individuals got cancer, it tracked the rate of two specific types of cranial cancer over 30 years and generically explained increases in certain age groups until it found there were enough explanations to cover all the reported cases of that specific cancer and called it good. No attempt was made to:
      - determine whether cases happened in younger groups (you only generally get terminal brain cancer once, depriving you of the chance to get it when you are older),
      - determine whether other cancers went up (or not),
      - or whether there was a higher incidence of cranial cancers among actual cell users (and especially heavy cell users) as opposed to the general populace.

      They dismissed the actual measured and documented increases as a result of better detection, but I saw no sign that they compared those increase rates so, say, some other cancers that couldn't be cell-related. Not that it would be that meaningful, but it'd be nice to see how the better detection rates affected other cancers during the same period.

      So we have an aggregation based on non-current technology that indicates a clear increase in cancer. The increase is then explained away by better detection technology. Pardon me if I'm not ENTIRELY convinced by it. I'm not saying there IS a link, I'm just saying the data analysis done doesn't appear to support such a conclusion.

      More recent and formal studies (in other words, those that actually study current technologies and use a control population and a study population) have somewhat more concerning, though not entirely conclusive, results. (WHO Example http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,569465,00.html ).

      Is there a link? I, for one, honestly don't know. I tend to use my cell stuck up next to my head, which is probably not the best idea, and I'll probably start using a bluetooth headset more often for calls just because of the lower RF output and my deep and abiding desire to live forever (so far, so good). But since I used to use

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
    8. Re:Will this be covered by the public option? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microwave ovens are powerful devices for warming food because they create a standing wave inside the oven to agitate the water molecules. Using the same frequencies does not mean your head becomes an oven container that'll create standing waves. Actually, in your case, they probably would.

    9. Re:Will this be covered by the public option? by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      The wire will guide far less signal than is emitted by the headset.

      Theres a reason wireless transmission over any given distance requires more power than when you plugin a wire.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  13. The first by Culture20 · · Score: 2, Funny

    And you know how quick cities and states are to follow law fads. By next year, you'll see people using ear-buds and holding their phones two meters away with a grabber-arm.

  14. You always need to be first! by dakohli · · Score: 3, Insightful
    It seems that you need to be first with many things, such as warnings on consumer items. It's a race to keep your citizens safe, or is it? With this stuff, we seem to be living in a culture of fear. So it's a mad race for the politicians to be the first to react, so that they can claim to be the first, and of course that means their chances of re-election is that much better.

    I looked at various articles on this subject yesterday, and their are indeed two camps, the first who say that there are no statistically significant studies on this subject, and the second who claim otherwise.

    I am all for safety, but lets get real here. How long have cell phones been around? Not that long, In the past I've worked in the vicinity of high powered RADAR units. If I were to place paper clips on the cabinet where I used to sit for hours at a time, they would dance. I think the potential for cancer causing agents in our world is significant, but to be able to narrow it down will take a really well designed study.

    Personally, I don't trust the motives of any of the current scientists. The industry wants to downplay any threat, and there is a growing group of folks who just see danger around every corner. If we listened to this second set we would end up back in the 1800s in terms of technology. If we listen exclusively to the first, well, then we may be in trouble.

    There has to be some middle ground somewhere, where reasonable folks are just looking for the truth.

    1. Re:You always need to be first! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally, I don't trust the motives of any of the current scientists.

      Hmm...

      There has to be some middle ground somewhere, where reasonable folks are just looking for the truth.

      That would be the scientists that you've already dismissed.

    2. Re:You always need to be first! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      How can you be "just looking for the truth," while explicitly saying that you "don't trust the motives of any of the current scientists" though? Exactly what "truth" are you looking for, when you're willing to discount evidence, your discounting itself based on no evidence at all? You've managed to broadly paint anyone who might assist you in your search as fatally biased. It seems to me that the only "truth" you're seeking is that everyone but you is an idiot.

    3. Re:You always need to be first! by Rozine · · Score: 1
      Not that I'm defending this idiocy, but...

      Two equal camps, check.

      Group all "current" scientists together, check.

      Appeal to "reasonable folks" who want to find a "middle ground", check.

      Can you push any more buttons from the anti-science and anti-evolution camp? This is simple physics - non-ionizing radiation does not cause damage to DNA, period. There is real research on this. What more do you want?

      The next time I hear someone appeal to the average man for authority in politics I'm going to go crazy. If I wanted the idiot down the street making decisions for me I would have asked him myself. I want people who have actually spent some time researching this to give me information, thanks.

    4. Re:You always need to be first! by dakohli · · Score: 1
      You are correct, maybe. I should have said I'm looking for some Independent Scientists. One's who's motives are not determined by who is funding their research. Would you trust the Cigarette funded researchers to tell you that smoking is safe. Me either. By the same token, If someone is starting out with a pre-conceived notion that something is dangerous, and then is willing to fudge their data to prove their point?

      Of course the problem is who to trust? In searching online, I found a couple of studies that claim Cell phones are dangerous. I found one that says "conclusively" that they are not, and a bunch that state there is no evidence either way.

      In this day and age, "The sky is falling" receives more press. Does that mean it's right?

    5. Re:You always need to be first! by dakohli · · Score: 1
      I agree with you completely.

      I was only trying to comment on the motives of the two camps. One trying to disprove a problem, the other trying to prove it.

      For the record I am not either anti-science or anti-evolutionary. I want the guy doing the study to be interested in the truth. Not a preconceived version of it.

    6. Re:You always need to be first! by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      What two camps? While scientists often have preferences as to how they'd like experiments to turn out, they're in general trying to find things out. Consider Michelson and Morley: they were trying to find how Earth moved relative to the luminiferous aether, and wound up kick-starting relativity. Not what they were going for.

      You won't find people interested in nothing but the truth, but the scientific community is the closest you're going to find.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    7. Re:You always need to be first! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > There has to be some middle ground somewhere, where reasonable folks are just looking for the truth.

      The truth does not always lie in the middle ground. I think that *always* looking for the middle ground shows
      a terrible weakness of character. There are many many situations in which compromise is called for but this
      is not one of them. People have a tendency to have crazy unjustifiable fears. Name any kind of phobia and
      someone has it, say fear of ghosts for example. Trying to find middle ground with people who have these
      fears or the rat bastards that prey on these fears is wrong. Science is our candle in the darkness. There
      have been studies done including an enormous study by Denmark that show no link between cell phone
      usage and cancer. As for that grand-daddy of epistemological cop outs that you "cannot prove a
      negative." It may be true in an absolute philosophical sense but you can be as damn sure as is possible
      in this world and letting infinitesimal remnants of unreasonable doubt determine ones actions is a fools game.

    8. Re:You always need to be first! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems that you need to be first with many things, such as warnings on consumer items. It's a race to keep your citizens safe, or is it?

      Nah, he's just got a patent on government entities passing laws requiring warning labels on cell phones.... Actually, probably something even broader than that.

  15. Living is hazardous to your health by Khris · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Seriously, there isn't anything on this world that will not cause damage when used in excess. We as a society have become so addicted to everything that we've completely lost the meaning of "Moderation".

    1. Re:Living is hazardous to your health by Conchobair · · Score: 1

      The number one cause of death is birth. Let's get a warning label on every person so they know the dangers.

  16. The end by lymond01 · · Score: 4, Funny

    We all have to go sometime, son. And you've used all your rollover minutes anyway.

  17. Job for UN by oldhack · · Score: 1

    UN should set up a body to study the issue and reach a consensus. We must save the brains.

    --
    Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
    1. Re:Job for UN by dakohli · · Score: 1
      Otherwise the zombies will be in trouble.

      -Brains, send more brain, I mean paramedics.

  18. What makes cell phones more dangerous? by Jimmy+King · · Score: 0

    So, what supposedly makes cell phones more dangerous than a standard cordless phone that we've used for years without panic or the giant fucking TVs most of us have in our houses, computes and monitors that we sit very close to most of the day at work, etc?

    Of course, I think perhaps the biggest clue that this is a load of shit is that it's nearly impossible to find a source that isn't clearly some fear mongering asshole (who may not believe what they are saying themselves) or some uneducated jackass just repeating what they have read on the websites run by fear mongering assholes.

    1. Re:What makes cell phones more dangerous? by mea37 · · Score: 1

      The cordless phones that have been in use "for years without panic" were limited to .001W transmitter power, compared wtih cell phone transmitters typically in the 1W range. (Newer DSS cordless phones are permitted to use up to 1W.)

      Of course, most people probably don't know either of those things. My real point is: please don't ask the crazy people questions to which they can provide a plausible answer. The best question is, "If cell phones cause cancer, why has no scientific study been able to demonstrate such a connection?"

    2. Re:What makes cell phones more dangerous? by Jimmy+King · · Score: 1

      Ah, interesting. I actually wanted a plausible answer, if there was one. Those are the ones that should be investigated or at least known about if you're going to claim that the people saying cell phones cause cancer are just crazies and those trying to profit from them. That's why I asked here, rather than asking the crazy people, though. I figured someone here might have a plausible, if unlikely, answer. I really didn't expect anything other than nonsense to come from most people who believe this stuff or those trying to make a profit.

      It's also nice to know what that kernel of truth is (or may be) that led up to the insanity when misunderstood and/or blown out of proportion.

  19. San Francisco by nsayer · · Score: 1

    It's a lovely place to visit, but I am glad I don't have to pay taxes there.

    So what do they want the warnings to say? "Warning, this cell phone may or may not cause cancer?" Didn't they already pass prop 65 to say that damn near everything may or may not cause cancer? Honesty - the last time I went the movies there was a prop 65 warning on the door.

    They seriously need to stop crying wolf^wcancer.

  20. Nitrogen Warning by handy_vandal · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    For one of the facilities where I work, I had to take site-specific safety training before they would issue me a key. Included in the training was a note that there "may be nitrogen present in the air". This was included due to LN2 tanks being present in the basement, but it's a sorry state of affairs when you have to warn people that they MAY inhale some nitrogen.

    May be a legitimate concern. LN2 (liquid nitrogen) tanks might leak, causing an asphyxiation hazard.

    Same with helium tanks. Break the valve, and you might suffocate an entire room filled with balloon-twisting clowns and the children they were entertaining ....

    --
    -kgj
    1. Re:Nitrogen Warning by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      The problem isn’t the nitrogen, though. It’s the lack of oxygen.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    2. Re:Nitrogen Warning by Matheus · · Score: 1

      OR the helium tank may crush a few of them as it is cruising through them, the walls, the cars in the parking lot and the cell phone distracted mega-SUV that just happens to be driving by...

    3. Re:Nitrogen Warning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No shit, sherlock. A warning that there "may be nitrogen present in the air" is still useless. Presence of nitrogen in the air is not a maybe, it's guaranteed. Presence of nitrogen in the air, without further qualification or quantification, is not dangerous. If it were, we'd all be dead. If there is an asphyxiation hazard, then say so. In the case of a leak, nitrogen displaces oxygen and thereby causes suffocation.

  21. Constipation... by vvaduva · · Score: 1

    I hear vibrating cell phones can also cause constipation if they end up in someone's butt. Where is the warning for that??

    It's a million to one shot, Doc. A million to one!

    1. Re:Constipation... by pgmrdlm · · Score: 0

      I hear that vibrating cell phones can cause orgasims if they are stuffed down the front of ones pants.

      --
      Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
  22. Great more according to the state of whatever by areusche · · Score: 1

    I can see it now, "According to the State of Maine, this device may cause cancer. " We're all going to die one day. Whether it is by cancer, car accident, or natural causes I don't care.

    1. Re:Great more according to the state of whatever by dotfile · · Score: 1

      "According to the cell phone industry, living in Maine may cause idiotic warning labels on your cell phone that you'll need to spend an extra minute to peel off." Now we just need the greenies bitching about the extra ecological impact of producing the labels.

      Or, hey... maybe Maine-compliant cell phones would be required to make a voice announcement with a dire warning of the possible consequences at the beginning of each call, which of course you would be required to acknowledge before the call is completed. You know, kind of like those stupid-assed warnings we have to put up with on DVDs (FBI anti-copy warning)and GPS (don't operate while driving) screens.

      I can see a promising new income source, smuggling warning-free cell phones into Maine and San Francisco. Dukes of Hazzard style, with Roscoe P. Coltrane one step behind...

    2. Re:Great more according to the state of whatever by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      We're all going to die one day. Whether it is by cancer, car accident, or natural causes I don't care.

      There's more to dying than just death. Cancer is a horrible way to go. OTOH my ex-mother in law just stopped in mid sentence of heart failure. Not a bad way to go at all.

      I'm not afraid of death, but I hate pain. I woudn't want to die in a car wreck again, either. That hurts like hell, and due to the time dialation a few seconds isn't just a long time, it's the rest of your life.

      I want to be shot by a jealous lover, on the upstroke, at age 105!

    3. Re:Great more according to the state of whatever by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      This label printed with soy-based ink on 75% post-consumer fiber. Please recycle.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    4. Re:Great more according to the state of whatever by pclminion · · Score: 1

      Ever seen somebody die of cancer? If you haven't, find somebody who knows someone who has and ask them if dying of cancer was pretty much the same as, say, dying instantly in a car crash.

      We're all going to die some day, so why not die in an excruciating, pathetic, drawn-out way that causes your entire family to suffer? That's what you're saying?

      (Has nothing to do with the claims from the article, which are bullshit)

  23. Diabolical! by KingSkippus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You know, now that you mention it, that's not a bad plan if you're a tobacco company. I can't tell you how many times when I try to get friends to stop smoking, they fall back on excuses like, "Well, eventually something is going to kill me..." or "Everything causes cancer..."

    Talk about lame rationalization. Still, if they start slapping "This may cause cancer!" labels on stuff that has been proven, in fact, not to cause cancer, it's just more ammunition. If you're a tobacco company, that might be a viable strategy. Get cancer labels on everything so that no one will believe the labels on anything.

    1. Re:Diabolical! by maxume · · Score: 1

      The two best techniques are not worrying about it and mockery.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:Diabolical! by rrohbeck · · Score: 1

      Every parking garage and gas station in CA has Prop 65 cancer warnings everywhere.
      I agree the tobacco industry must love it.

    3. Re:Diabolical! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, it's worked for the war on drugs and think of the children...

    4. Re:Diabolical! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the same order of ideas, I haven't seen the first bullet labeled "This bullet can kill you" and a proper management checklist on the case. Should they laser imprint them?

  24. Idiotic by tsotha · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Here in California we passed a law that requires any business or establishment to post signs if anything on the premises is a carcinogen. What happened was every single business in the state posted a sign. Legitimately, too, since lots of things we use on a daily basis are slightly carcinogenic, like gasoline and paint. Now everyone just ignores the signs because they're everywhere.

    If you actually had something dangerous people would ignore your sign unless you put something like "On these premises there's something really, really carcinogenic. We're not kidding, either. Don't push your luck."

    1. Re:Idiotic by avm · · Score: 1

      What's nearly as amusing as the incessant crying wolf is seeing such labels on things when I live on the other side of the fucking continent.

      Not only is it annoying as hell but its contagious

    2. Re:Idiotic by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      In Palm Springs, there is an Aerial Tram that takes you up to the mountains. It's breathtakingly beautiful. I was listening to the recording of the tour guide telling you to take a deep breath of the clean mountain air. Next to the speaker, is one of those signs saying that something around you can cause cancer. Totally ironic that one of the the cleanest places on the planet isn't considered safe. That law went way too far.

      Oh, and the signs are everywhere because of cleaning solutions. If you DON'T see a sign, be concerned - they probably aren't cleaning the place.

    3. Re:Idiotic by linhux · · Score: 1

      Your state has invented the IRL EULA. Congratulations!

  25. WARNING: Living may be hazerdous to your health by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Subject says it all, really.

  26. Re:What's the point about a cancer warning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    P.S. I eat babies.

    Yours In Novosibirsk,
    Kilgore Trout

  27. Probably not a bad idea by Pedrito · · Score: 1, Interesting

    There probably ought to be a warning. The evidence is inconclusive at this point, but there are a number of studies that do seem to show that cell phones are capable of causing, at the very least, changes in levels of certain proteins in cells, but potentially damaging neurons and causing cancer.

    I thought these were crazy ideas when they were first raised. I worked in the engineering side of the cell phone industry for a few years and I'm very aware of how little power they radiate. It just didn't seem possible that it could affect cells, since it couldn't even change their temperature measurably. But the sheer number of studies that are coming out showing an apparent cause and effect between cell phones and a number of cellular mechanisms, is leading me to believe that there is something very real there.

    1. Re:Probably not a bad idea by klaun · · Score: 1

      there are a number of studies that do seem to show that cell phones are capable of causing, at the very least, changes in levels of certain proteins in cells, but potentially damaging neurons and causing cancer.

      I don't want to be dismissive of this claim, but given the number of studies you mentioned, it would have been useful to reference some.

      I'd particularly be interested in how a study measures cell phone effects on protein levels in the cells of the brain. Also, you mention that they damage neurons. However, over 85% of malignant brain tumors arise from glial cells or cancers of other non-neural cells in the brain.

      I myself am aware of studies that show non-ionizing, non-thermal radiation can affect DNA replication. (Sorry can't find a reference.) But from what I've read, it had not been linked to any pathology and the studies were strictly limited to examining cell cultures, not entire organisms.

      But the sheer number of studies that are coming out showing an apparent cause and effect between cell phones and a number of cellular mechanisms, is leading me to believe that there is something very real there.

      The National Cancer institute links to several studies that at best are inconclusive on any link and for the most part seem to conclude that there is no link. Where are the sheer numbers of studies that you are refering to?

      I'm not sure what the numerous cellular mechanism you are referring to is either. We are talking strictly cancer, right? So in general we are only concerned with replication and transcription of DNA, correct?

    2. Re:Probably not a bad idea by SnarfQuest · · Score: 1

      We need a warning on milk bottles that we must not forget to put out a saucer of milk for the fairies and brownies every night. There have been many unhappy instances where people forgot to do this. The actual science for this is just as impressive as that for cell phone caused cancer.

      The only reason this cell phone caused cancer is taken seriously, is because the lawyers smell blood. It's something they think will make them huge piles of money.

      --
      Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    3. Re:Probably not a bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      care to cite the studies? only study I've seen showed that over 20 years of cellphone usage by danes there was no significant link to brain cancer.

    4. Re:Probably not a bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A requirement to post _some_ warnings and _some_ information on _some_ products is a very good thing in _some_ cases. eg: ingredients on food, and drugs, list of major side effects on drugs, Age min and small objects on toys,...
      Some may seem like an overkill, like "don't drink if you want to be able to see and read this" on antifreeze.

      But we clearly should not put warnings against everyday small risks of using items. Every item carries with it some risks. You can choke on apples and fell of a bad. Should they carry warnings? How about airplane tickets: "Boarding an airplane greatly increases your chances of getting communicable diseases" , " Flying in a plane increases you chances of falling down and hurting yourself"...? Too many warnings and we will simply stop reading the labels.

      Warnings, like those on potential harm from holding cell phone to your ear for too many hours, belong in press reporting the research.

      On the other hand!!!

      I'd like to see warnings on the voting ballots:

      Voting and electing this person to a political office will likely cause irreparable harm to you and to the society...
        -- Momus

  28. Does nobody read Æsop's Fables anymore? by RJFerret · · Score: 1

    Please stop crying wolf and making warnings meaningless!

    1. Re:Does nobody read Æsop's Fables anymore? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure wolves cause cancer.

  29. Why not, works for global warming? by alta · · Score: 0, Troll

    Anyone here he says this is a stupid idea, and that global warming is CAUSED by man is a hypocrite.

    Of course global warming is effected by man. And every other damn thing on the planet, both in positive and negative ways. To the point that chaos theory says that every time a butterfly farts the world warms a little. But it works the other way to.

    And, considering that plants LIKE CO2 and the world is overall GREENER than it was 50 year ago, who's to say warming wouldn't be a good thing? Oh yeah, people who stand to get rich selling carbon credits (gore) and idiots who built their homes .3ft above sea level.

    So, think about it, what's the REAL reason someone's trying to push a cell phone label? Is there a huge LABEL MAKING industry in Maine? Is there a company there trying to come out with a EM FREE cell phone? Or is this guy about to start selling EM credits to offset your cell phone?

    --
    Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
    1. Re:Why not, works for global warming? by maxume · · Score: 1

      A horse is a horse of course of course.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    2. Re:Why not, works for global warming? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Holy Trolly...

  30. Rapid oxygen displacement by handy_vandal · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    The problem isn’t the nitrogen, though. It’s the lack of oxygen.

    This is true, and I should have stated as much.

    Gas tank leakage (nitrogen, helium, etc.) in a confined space can cause rapid oxygen displacement. Lack of oxygen causes suffocation.

    --
    -kgj
    1. Re:Rapid oxygen displacement by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      In any case, “may be nitrogen present in the air” is an absurd warning.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  31. NO, guy, try reading, it's bad idea, citations? by Blappo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "There probably ought to be a warning"

    No there shouldn't and the California debacle you've ignored the discussion of in this thread proves why.

    "The evidence is inconclusive at this point, but there are a number of studies that do seem to show that cell phones are capable of causing, at the very least, changes in levels of certain proteins in cells, but potentially damaging neurons and causing cancer."

    CITE THEM.

    RIGHT NOW. Unless you do so, you will be added to the rolls of those who try to make shit up and presume no on will call themon it.

    You've bee called, defend your already debunked assertions or admit you can't.

    "I thought these were crazy ideas when they were first raised. "

    They are.

    "But the sheer number of studies that are coming out "

    THAT YOU COMPLETELY FAIL TO CITE OR EVEN DISCUSS BEYOND VAGARIES.

    You mean THOSE studies? They don't exist. Prove me wrong.

    --
    Why are so many posts with factual errors modded up?
    1. Re:NO, guy, try reading, it's bad idea, citations? by paiute · · Score: 2, Funny

      "The evidence is inconclusive at this point, but there are a number of studies that do seem to show that I am the Queen of England."

      --
      If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
    2. Re:NO, guy, try reading, it's bad idea, citations? by Pedrito · · Score: 1

      THAT YOU COMPLETELY FAIL TO CITE OR EVEN DISCUSS BEYOND VAGARIES.

      You mean THOSE studies? They don't exist. Prove me wrong.


      Try going here. Next, type the words, "mobile phone" (without the quotes) into the box and click where it says "search". Among the 2200 results are a number of studies on the influence of mobile phones on cells and EEG rhythms.

      Whether you agree or disagree with their results is another issue entirely.
      Have a nice day.

    3. Re:NO, guy, try reading, it's bad idea, citations? by Pedrito · · Score: 1

      Messed up the link. Sorry. Go here

    4. Re:NO, guy, try reading, it's bad idea, citations? by LanMan04 · · Score: 1

      Please show us the study. In a real journal.

      This is not a case where "Let Me Google That For You" is appropriate. There is a MOUNTAIN of bullshit and misinformation out there, and Google finds all of it.

      Show us the study. Or STFU.

      --
      With the first link, the chain is forged.
    5. Re:NO, guy, try reading, it's bad idea, citations? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Be careful. You can type almost anything into a search engine (and PubMed is a search engine) and get back a bunch of hits. Some of them will even be related, and sound scary. The number of hits you get is strongly affected by the amount of hype around an issue.

      Scientific literature is like a massive debate. On any given issue you'll find a bunch of different viewpoints and a bunch of different proponents of each, some with more and some with less, evidence. Eventually the whole thing trends towards the right answer, but monitoring who is yelling the most is definitely not the right way to predict what that will be.

    6. Re:NO, guy, try reading, it's bad idea, citations? by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 1

      Hmm. I'm on Google search page 40 and there's been only one mention of how cell phone radiation may make rats more susceptible to the "ooh, shiny..." phenomenon. I did however manage to find articles on:

      I'm not dismissing you entirely but if you're going to make specific claims it'd be a good idea to include citations. Doing a more specific search will net a number of hits but the best you can say from them is that a number of groups are looking at the subject and while some preliminary results are in with some very vocal advocates, there are conflicting data and definitely no consensus.

      P.S. you must have a pretty sucky search engine as I got 387,000,000 results.

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    7. Re:NO, guy, try reading, it's bad idea, citations? by radtea · · Score: 1

      Among the 2200 results are a number of studies on the influence of mobile phones on cells and EEG rhythms.

      This is a great form of argument. "Somewhere in this mass of vaguely indicated text is a phrase or two that taken in the right way can support something I haven't clearly articulated, but that supports some political move that appears pointless and stupid to everyone else."

      This can't be argued against because you a) haven't actually asserted any proposition other than "I think there should be a warning saying cell phones cause cancer" and b) you haven't given the slightest bit of evidence that would cause anyone to believe that cell phones cause cancer. For a start, you've given no reason to believe that cell phones having an effect on EEG might make anyone believe cell phones cause cancer, and you've also given no reason for anyone to believe that cell phones have an effect on EEGs. If anyone were to dig through the masses of vaguely indicated text you've waved them toward there's nothing to stop you from saying, "You haven't looked hard enough" or similar.

      All you're doing is creating an artist's impression of an argument. To actually convince anyone of anything--and not look like a wanker--you have to do the work of creating a real argument, with a crisp empirical proposition and actual evidence to support it. Until then, you're not signal, just noise.

      So to counter your position, I suggest you go here and type the words "wankers cause cancer" (without the quotes) and hit "Search". In the approximately 80,200 results you'll find some things suggest people like you have an effect on other people's EEGs.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
  32. Its the rollover minutes by argee · · Score: 0

    Its the rollover minutes that cause cancer, the other kind of minutes does not. Like in Sweden.

    1. Re:Its the rollover minutes by lymond01 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Those older minutes are just as good as the newer ones. Don't give me that look!

    2. Re:Its the rollover minutes by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      You keep your minutes past their expiration date? I throw mine out a week before it just to be on the safe side!

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  33. Compressed gas tank as missile by handy_vandal · · Score: 1

    OR the helium tank may crush a few of them as it is cruising through them, the walls, the cars in the parking lot and the cell phone distracted mega-SUV that just happens to be driving by...

    Indeed. Wikipedia states:

    "Since the liquid to gas expansion ratio of [nitrogen] is 1:694, a tremendous amount of force can be generated if liquid nitrogen is rapidly vaporized. In an incident in 2006 at Texas A&M University, the pressure-relief devices of a tank of liquid nitrogen were sealed with brass plugs. As a result, the tank failed catastrophically, and exploded. The force of the explosion was sufficient to propel the tank through the ceiling immediately above it."
    Link

    --
    -kgj
    1. Re:Compressed gas tank as missile by clone53421 · · Score: 0

      Catastrophic failure (complete rupture) is not comparable to gas/liquid escaping via an aperture. I don’t care to do the calculations, but I doubt that a jet moving at the speed of sound through, say, a 1-inch aperture would have enough force to significantly compare to the weight of the compressed gas inside the cylinder plus the weight of the cylinder itself.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  34. Water can kill you by Billkamm · · Score: 1

    If you drink too much water too quickly it can kill you. I think all bottled water needs warning labels.

    1. Re:Water can kill you by OrangeMonkey11 · · Score: 1

      you know the ironic thing is this have been documented and proven to be true.

      This goes to show you never trust a bunch of cowards(Frenchies) to lead by example they completely mislead everyone. Water is what we should try to protect our children from not cell phones.

  35. Forgot basic science? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Microwaves heat things by depositing kinetic RF energy into the molecules of your food. Microwave is higher wavelength than visible light (i.e. lower energy per photon). Cell phones use microwave bandwidth. Anyone who gets an MRI might feel a slight warming sensation due to RF energy deposited, but this is known without dispute to NOT cause cancer. You can get multiple MRIs without any radiation exposure, because RF energy is lower energy per photon than visible light.

    UV, x-rays and gamma rays deposit more energy per photon (they are shorter wavelength than visible light) and instead of just depositing energy elastically into the molecules of your cells, they can physically break molecules that bond your DNA. That is what leads to cancer from radiation exposure.

    Cell phones don't do that.

    -Medical Physicist / Biomedical engineer

  36. Please Mr. Government Man, Protect us!!!! by jameskojiro · · Score: 1

    More warnings for everything, It won't be a truly safe place to live until everything in existence has yellow warning labels....

    Warning, walking may lead to falling.

    Warning, eating may lead to obesity.

    Warning, living may lead to death.

    Warning, thinking happy thoughts now may lead to bad thoughts later.

    Warning, life is dangerous, not worth living, please report to you government sponsored "permanent relaxation center" for treatment....

    --
    Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
    1. Re:Please Mr. Government Man, Protect us!!!! by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      My personal favourite (real) warning label:

      “WARNING – Any activity involving motion or height creates the possibility of accidental injury.”

      (It then went on to say that the equipment should be operated by properly trained/qualified individuals or some such crap, but I liked the beginning best.)

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  37. Vague warnings by handy_vandal · · Score: 1

    In any case, "may be nitrogen present in the air" is an absurd warning.

    Agreed. Vague warnings are absurd or worse. The warning should be more descriptive, e.g. "dangerous volume of nitrogen may be present if gas tanks leak."

    Come to think of it ... "may be nitrogen present in the air" is doubly absurd. Nitrogen normally makes up 78% of the Earth's atmosphere by volume. "May be nitrogen" implies the possibility that there may not be nitrogen in the air -- and if there is no nitrogen in the air, what the hell is taking its place, and why?

    --
    -kgj
    1. Re:Vague warnings by clone53421 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Even better, “Asphyxiation hazard – Dangerous low-oxygen conditions may occur if LN2 tanks leak. Oxygen monitors must be used at all times.”

      Simple, descriptive, and complete: tells exactly what the danger is, when it may occur, and what precautions are necessary to ensure the workers’ safety.

      Of course, nobody hired me to write the warning labels...

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    2. Re:Vague warnings by kimvette · · Score: 1

      Warnings should be more accurate. "There may be nitrogen present in the air" is absurd because we are always breathing 80% nitrogen already (well, isn't it really more like 79%?). What they should say is "Warning: Nitrogen leaks may displace oxygen, resulting in asphyxiation" or something less inaccurate and vague than "there may be nitrogen present." Sure, the intent is good, but the implementation is retarded.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  38. NO NO NO NO NO by Blappo · · Score: 1

    Try going here. Next, type the words, "mobile phone" (without the quotes) into the box and click where it says "search". Among the 2200 results are a number of studies on the influence of mobile phones on cells and EEG rhythms.

    No sir, YOU made the assertions, now you're trying to avoid supporting them because you know you can't.

    Show us these "sheernumbers" of studies, and stop assuming I haven't already done exactly the search you're talking about.

    I want youto support your assertions. YOU MADE THEM after all, so pointing at a search engine and running away is a real cop put.

    --
    Why are so many posts with factual errors modded up?
    1. Re:NO NO NO NO NO by vbraga · · Score: 1

      GP can't show a study there to prove his point because there's none. For sure there are studies on the effects of mobile phone use, but none of them does point to cancer risks.

      Among the 2200 results are a number of studies on the influence of mobile phones on cells and EEG rhythms.

      From a WHO fact sheet:

      Scientists have reported other effects of using mobile phones including changes in brain activity, reaction times, and sleep patterns. These effects are small and have no apparent health significance.

      And for cancer risks:

      Several studies of animals exposed to RF fields similar to those emitted by mobile phones found no evidence that RF causes or promotes brain cancer.

      --
      English is not my first language. Corrections and suggestions are welcome.
  39. there is so much RF going through your body anyway by scapermoya · · Score: 1

    if radio waves caused cancer, we would all have been dead a long time ago. what exactly is supposed to be unique about cell phones? that you hold them to your head? anyone ever heard of a chemical bond that a 1900 mhz wave could break?

    --
    Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the frumious Bandersnatch.
  40. Consensus is irrelevant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    WHAT’S NEW Robert L. Park Friday, 13 Nov 09 Washington, DC

    BRAIN CANCER: OF COURSE CELL PHONES ARE DANGEROUS!
    Cell phones may lead to neural atrophy as mindless chatter is substituted
    for coherent information, but they don't cause brain cancer. This week,
    however, a doctoral thesis at a university in Sweden suggested that cell
    phones are linked to some brain cancers. It went around the world in
    Science Daily on Wednesday. This imaginary link is "discovered" about every
    five years or so. Photons induce cancer by the photoelectric effect,
    breaking chemical bonds and creating mutant strands of DNA. In 2001, I was
    invited to write an editorial on cell phone hazards for the Journal of the
    National Cancer Institute (JNCI, Vol. 93, Feb 7, 2001, p. 166). I pointed
    out that the photoelectric effect would require photon energies at the
    extreme blue end of the visible spectrum, which is why it's the ultraviolet
    rays in sunlight that cause skin cancer. Microwave photons are about
    10,000 times less energetic. In a classic 2001 op-ed, LBL physicist Robert
    Cahn observed that Albert Einstein discovered in 1905 that microwaves
    couldn't cause cancer. The cell phone scare was launched in 1993 on the
    Larry King Live Show, which is not peer reviewed. It almost strangled the
    infant cell-phone industry in its crib, but researchers found nothing.

  41. No, cite your assertions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, cite your claims, stop that intellectually dishonest crap.

    YOU made assertions, provide facts that support them.

    A link to NIH is nothing, stop trying that crap.

  42. Seriously people... by VanGarrett · · Score: 1

    Why don't we save ourselves a lot of work, and start labeling the things that DON'T cause cancer, instead? The savings in natural resources alone would be drastic.

  43. Cannot prove a negative by sjbe · · Score: 1

    Not stopping there, there is at least one major study that shows no significant link between cellphones and cancer -- not just a lack of any confirmation.

    Science can't prove a negative. Science can only conclusive disprove hypothesis, never conclusively prove them. We cannot ever really prove that cell phones do not cause cancer, we can only find that there is no evidence whatsoever to support the theory that they do cause cancer. Furthermore when we say "no significant link" we are usually talking about correlation, not causation - and the distinction is important. To my knowledge there has been no "smoking gun" proof that there is any link between cell phone use and cancer. There have been some correlation studies hinting at a link but the problem has so many factors it is really hard to isolate all the variables. This is not to say that testing to see if there is a link is a bad idea, but big studies like the one you mention seem to indicate no connection which is about the best we really can hope for. Ideally we would have some physics/biochemistry model that could corroborate the (lack of) findings but I don't know if such a model exists. What little I do know about the physics involved seems to indicate at most a minimal risk but others would know better than me.

    While we cannot prove a scientific theory we can be highly confident of a hypothesis based on collected evidence. For example we cannot ever conclusively prove that the theory of quantum mechanics is correct but we have a huge amount of evidence supporting the theory and nothing yet to contradict those findings within the limitations of the mathematical model. Conversely in this case some have proposed that cell phones might cause cancer but there so far is little evidence to support the theory despite numerous studies and no theoretical model I'm aware of either that would indicate a serious danger. Hence the rational view is that there cell phone usage is unlikely to be a risk factor for cancer.

  44. Hey Gavin, two words for you by Low+Ranked+Craig · · Score: 1

    non-ionozing radiation.

    I know that's probably a concept that's way over your head, but before you fuckheads start running your mouths, perhaps some basic understanding of electromagnetic radiation is in order? Or would that diffuse your sensationalistic cause?

    Stupid shits

    --
    I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
  45. Wifi on laptops by Capt.+Skinny · · Score: 1

    She also said during a radio interview this morning that "laptops should not be used on your lap" because the wifi signals can cause cancer.

    1. Re:Wifi on laptops by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      zomg tinfoil underwear!

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  46. Re:Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We don’t need another batshit-insane bill to do that. Just use the universal healthcare legislation.

  47. Too many warnings by Explodicle · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Let's assume for a minute that there is some incredibly small increase in your cancer risk from using a cell phone. If it's small enough, I dare say we should have no warnings anyways. Constant warnings all the time about everything will just drown out the actually significant risks.

    "So what if this pack of cigarettes warns me? It's just another pointless government thing, like with cell phones."

  48. The test by w0mprat · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Hypothesis: Cellphones give you the brain cancers.

    Test of hypothesis: There would be a world wide pandemic of unexplained tumours, that would stand out strongly in heavy cellphone using developing nations. This, thanks to the billions of cellphones out there and ubiqutous bath of cellphone radiation we're bathed in worldwide. We'd see a overall increase in cancers maybe, but a marked increase in a specific type of cancer, as a result of the characteristics here, such as specific brain tumours in the side of the head.

    Results: There isn't any. Or if there is an effect, it's very very small, such that 'there isn't any' is still valid for all practical purposes. Any claimed correlation is tenuous at best, what few studies their are haven't showed anything worth more study, and we're a long way from any causal proof. Orders of magnitude smaller than gee, I don't know, exposure to actual chemical carcinogens, sunlight and bad lifestyle?

    (EMF could be carinogenic, I would believe high-voltage powerlines cause cancer, due to the sheer energies involved, and the fact the people with cancer have probably lived under them for decades.)

    --
    After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
  49. Mythbusters confirmed it spectacularly..... by Ellis+D.+Tripp · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    They used a rig that would cleanly sever the valve from a compressed air tank that was laying on the ground, simulating the frequent stories of a welding tank that gets knocked over, snapping the valve off in the fall.

    The tanks performed EXACTLY as claimed, shooting across the floor at high speed, and punching cleanly through a cement block wall.

    There is a metric buttload of stored energy in a high pressure gas cylinder...

    --
    Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
    1. Re:Mythbusters confirmed it spectacularly..... by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      I won’t argue with that. I was only disputing the comparability of the Texas A&M incident.

      Scooting across the floor merely requires overcoming a small fraction of the cylinder’s weight (the static/kinetic friction). In a short distance it could easily pick up a great deal of speed. However lifting off the ground and punching through a ceiling is an entirely different situation and “catastrophic failure” of a tank is totally different from a tank leaking through its valve aperture.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    2. Re:Mythbusters confirmed it spectacularly..... by ckaminski · · Score: 1

      There is a reason they fill SCUBA tanks in concrete water baths. I've seen pictures of a blown out Al-80 tank. It cracked the concrete basin, took out the roof and exterior wall, and took off three of a kids fingers. Scary to think we wear small bombs while SCUBA diving.

      It's even crazier to think that people run through the woods and smash tanks on rocks while playing paintball. I'm surprised there haven't been more exploding tank accidents - I know I haven't heard of any.

    3. Re:Mythbusters confirmed it spectacularly..... by ckaminski · · Score: 1

      You also forgot that bit about punching through concrete blocks. Then again, that's not so hard to do either.

    4. Re:Mythbusters confirmed it spectacularly..... by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      That depends on how fast it’s going when it hits the wall, which is a function of more than just forces.

      Overcoming gravity is merely a matter of the magnitudes of the forces involved.

      Punching through a wall is a function of both magnitude of force and time over which the force is acting, which makes it a whole different ballgame.

      If a bottle with a weight of 100 N (about 10 kg) is jetting with a force of 80 N, and there is a 10% coefficient of kinetic friction (10% x 100 N = 10 N friction force), it is accelerating at 7 m/s^2 (80 N forward force - 10 N friction = 70 N of force to accelerate the cylinder).

      I.e. after 1 second it has traveled 3.5 m and is moving at 7 m/s; after 2 seconds, 14 m and a velocity of 14 m/s; after 3 seconds, 31.5 m and a velocity of 21 m/s; etc. So... how much momentum does it take, spread out over the end of the cylinder, to punch a hole in a cinder block wall? It is merely a function of time and distance.

      However, it would not take off like a rocket – there is not enough force to overcome gravity.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    5. Re:Mythbusters confirmed it spectacularly..... by Ellis+D.+Tripp · · Score: 1

      There is a reason they fill SCUBA tanks in concrete water baths. I've seen pictures of a blown out Al-80 tank. It cracked the concrete basin, took out the roof and exterior wall, and took off three of a kids fingers.

      Wet filling that tank might actually have CONTRIBUTED to that explosion. WAY too easy to introduce moisture into the inside of the tank, where it will rapidly corrode the tank from the inside:

      http://www.fillexpress.com/library/dryfills.pdf

      It's even crazier to think that people run through the woods and smash tanks on rocks while playing paintball. I'm surprised there haven't been more exploding tank accidents - I know I haven't heard of any.

      Paintball tanks are filled with CO2, a liquified gas under its own vapor pressure. The pressure in the tank is around 800 PSI or so at room temperature. Considerably less than a SCUBA tank at 3000 PSI.

      --
      Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
  50. Laces out! by Tetsujin · · Score: 1

    "Be careful with that phone lieutenant! ...Over time, you could develop a tumor!"

    --
    Bow-ties are cool.
  51. Nick Taylor... by ghostis · · Score: 1

    Where's Nick Taylor when you need him?

    (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427944/)

    --


    Computer Science is all about trying to find the right wrench to bang in the right screw. -T.Cumbo?
    1. Re:Nick Taylor... by ghostis · · Score: 1

      Doh. Nick Naylor...

      --


      Computer Science is all about trying to find the right wrench to bang in the right screw. -T.Cumbo?
  52. objective measure by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    its almost as if they need an objective way of quantifying just how much a substance causes cancer. to do so in a standardised way would get interesting but hey why not. could require a few codes, but still a number might be possible given some reasonable assumptions?

    what do you think /.

    1. Re:objective measure by amliebsch · · Score: 4, Interesting

      We just need an SI unit for cancer-causing-probability. It should probably measure exposure, like rads. And dosage over time probably matters, too. So you could call it the "marb:" 1 marb = 1 filtered cigaratte over 1 day. So if you smoke 5 cigarettes a day, that's an exposure level of 5 marbs. Using a CRT probably adds a few millimarbs. Inhaling asbestos fibers adds several kilomarbs. There's also some micromarbs of background risk.

      --
      If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.
    2. Re:objective measure by tsotha · · Score: 1

      I really like this idea, especially the name.

  53. www.radiationresearch.org/pdfs/reasons_us.p by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, there is.

    Initial Endorsers (from 14 countries):

    USA Martin Blank, PhD, Associate Professor of Physiology and Cellular Biophysics, Columbia University
    USA David O. Carpenter, MD, Director, Institute for Health and the Environment, University at Albany
    USA Ronald B. Herberman, MD, Director Emeritus, University of Pittsburgh Cancer Institute
    USA Elizabeth A. Kelley, MA, Environmental and Public Policy Consultant
    USA Henry Lai, PhD, Research Professor, Dept. of Bioengineering, University of Washington
    USA Jerry L. Phillips, PhD, Director, Science Learning Center, University of Colorado at Colorado Springs
    USA Lawrence A. Plumlee, MD, Editor, The Environmental Physician, American Academy of Environmental Medicine
    USA Paul J. Rosch, MD, FACP, Clinical Professor of Medicine and Psychiatry, New
    York Medical College; President, The American Institute of Stress; Emeritus Member, The Bioelectromagnetics Society
    USA Bert Schou, PhD, CEO, ACRES Research
    USA Narendra P. Singh, Research Associate Professor, Department of Bioengineering, University of Washington
    USA Morton M. Teich, MD, Physician, New York, NY, Past President, American Academy of Environmental Medicine

    And:

    Australia Vini G. Khurana, MBBS, BSc (Med), PhD, FRACS, Associate Professor of Neurosurgery, Australian Capital Territory
    Australia Don Maisch, PhD (Cand.), Researcher, EMF Facts Consultancy
    Australia Dr Charles Teo, MBBS, FRACS, Neurosurgeon, Director of The Centre for
    Minimally Invasive Neurosurgery, New South Wales.
    Austria Gerd Oberfeld, MD, Public Health Department, State Government Salzburg and
    Speaker for Environmental Medicine for the Austrian Medical Association, Vienna
    Brazil Alvaro Augusto A. de Salles, PhD, Professor, Federal University of Rio Grande do Sul- UFRGS
    Canada Jennifer Armstrong, MD, Member, American Academy of Environmental
    Medicine; CEO, Ottawa Environmental Health Clinic
    Canada Joe Foster, 29 year member of the International Association of Fire Fighters
    Finland Mikko Ahonen, MSc, Researcher, University of Tampere
    Finland Osmo Hänninen, PhD, Professor in Physiology (Emer.), University of Kuopio
    France Daniel Oberhausen, Physicist, Association PRIARTÉM
    Germany Prof. Franz Adlkofer, Dr.med., Executive Director and Member of the Board of the VerUm Foundation, Foundation for Behaviour and Environment; Germany
    Germany Christine Aschermann, Dr. med., Psychiatry, Psychotherapy. Originator of Doctors’ Appeal (2002 Freiburg Appeal)
    Germany Horst Eger, Dr med., Bavarian Ärztekammer Medical Quality No. 65143:
    "Elektromagnetische Felder in der Medizin - Diagnostik, Therapie, Umwelt"
    Germany Cornelia Waldmann-Selsam, Dr.med, General Practitioner; Initiator of the Bamberg Appeal (2005)
    Germany Ulrich Warnke, Dr. rer. nat., Academic High Councilor, Biosciences, University of Saarland
    Greece Adamantia Fragopoulou, MSc, Medical Biology, PhD (cand.), Electromagnetic Biology Research Group, Athens University
    Greece Lukas H. Margaritis, PhD, Professor of Cell Biology and Radiobiology, Dept. of
    Cell Biology and Biophysics Faculty of Biology, University of Athens
    Greece Stelios A Zinelis, MD, Hellenic Cancer Society
    Ireland Con Colbert, Association Secretary, Irish Doctors Environmental Association
    Ireland Senator Mark Daly, National Parliament, Republic of Ireland
    Russia Professor Yury Grigoriev, Chairman of Russian National Committee on Non-
    Ionizing Radiation Protection, a member of WHO International Advisory Committee on "EMF and Health"
    Spain Alfonso Balmori, PhD, Biologist, Researcher on effects of electromagnetic fields on wildlife
    Sweden Örjan Hallberg, MSEE, Hallberg Independent Research
    UK Mike Bell, Lawyer, Trustee, Radiation Research Trust (RRT)
    UK Ian Dring, PhD, Independent Consultant Scientist
    UK Gill Evans, M.Phil, Member of European Parliament for Wales Plaid Cymru
    UK Ian Gibson, PhD, biologist and geneticist, cancer researcher, ex-senior M.P. and
    Chair of Sci

  54. no consensus among scientists by MobyDisk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    there is no consensus among scientists that they [cause cancer]

    That's a trollish statement if I've ever heard one. There's no consensus among scientists that the moon is made of cheese. There's also no consensus amongst scientists that playing video games causes cancer. And there's no consensus that socks are stolen by gnomes during the night.

    There's no consensus, because it is false.

  55. GODDAMN! by fudgefactor7 · · Score: 1

    This is retarded. They don't cause cancer. That's been proven. Can I get a sticker that says "Stickers may cause lung parasites?" No, why? Because it's stupid. These fucking idiots want to swim with the scientists but they aren't even qualified to get out of the kiddie pool with their floater-level intellect.

  56. I wouldn't be so quick to follow SF by renimar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As a Bay Area resident who's seen Newsom's "management" of San Francisco, I don't know that I'd be so quick to follow Newsom's lead. Not to mention that he has a history of making big annoucements... and failing to follow through.

    This isn't even a policy agenda that can be argued from a moral or social perspective -- it's based on erroneous beliefs with no scientific backing whatsoever. Not to mention that there are already agencies who test every damn cell phone when it comes out. Sounds to me like there's already legislation (albeit at the federal level) to handle this should cell phones prove to be brain cookers.

    --
    In other news, Microsoft Windows users are now covered under the Americans with Disabilties Act...
  57. Re: But thats the people thats the cancer by pgmrdlm · · Score: 0

    Not cell phones causing the cancer.

    --
    Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
  58. There's nothing new about this by NotSoHeavyD3 · · Score: 1

    I mean US courts have already said that if you merely think something is making you sick that's a good enough standard to sue for losses. (Scientific evidence be damned.)

    --
    Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
    1. Re:There's nothing new about this by NiteShaed · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You can sue for anything. Winning the suit is something else entirely.

      --
      Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
    2. Re:There's nothing new about this by NotSoHeavyD3 · · Score: 1

      That's true but the point I was trying to make was that you can actually win damages if you merely think something made you sick. (You don't have to show real physical harm.)

      --
      Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
  59. and.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So what. They can put all the warnings they want, who cares...

  60. Would anyone care? by sampson7 · · Score: 1

    I can't imagine any warning would end the love affair people have with their cell phones. On the train. On the plane. Sitting on the can. People are obsessed.

  61. just a thought... by logicassasin · · Score: 1

    ... but didn't the tobacco industry tell us for years that smoking poses no cancer risk?

    For this reason, I'll remain skeptical about a position of denial taken by an industry that stands to lose billions should a link between their product and harm caused to the general public be found.

    For the record, I don't support either stance yet, but I do remember the old-school phones from the late 80's to early 90's being differentiated by power and proximity to a person for safety reasons (I sold phones from 1990 to 1996 in a car audio shop). IIRC, ratings were .6W for hand-held phones, 1.3W for transportables (bag phones), and a full 3W for phones mounted in-car, with the tranciever, ideally, located in the trunk of the car.

    --
    Fifty watts per channel, baby cakes.
  62. Doing these things without any proof... by meerling · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If they get this one without proof, how long until they start forcing others without proof.

    Before long, every male will be labeled as a sex offender, every food will warn of cancer or other health issues, every politician will have a scarlet letter, etc...

    Stop the insanity now by stopping this grandstanding moron on a soap box.
    Then get him and his cronies kicked out of office.

    1. Re:Doing these things without any proof... by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      Right about the time any of those things happens, no one will care about them anymore.

      When you label too many people as sex offenders, it will be come acceptable and no one will care.

      California does have cancer warnings on EVERYTHING, no one cares.

      Every politician does have a figurative scarlet letter, its a D or a R (those other parties don't really matter so I'm not bothering with them) . Everyone knows they are whorebags, thats why we call them politicians and not public servants anymore.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  63. A better warning would be... by happy_place · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Don't DRIVE A CAR and text/play with your cellphone!!! PLEAZZZE! My wife and I have a new game, we count the number of cars we pass or observe toying with their cellphones. Some days it's EVERY OTHER CAR!? Car accidents do kill people. Getting in an accident due to this would ruin your life. Turns out, every accident that occurs... is... accidental--meaning no one planned on doing it. Why take the risk? At least pull over somewhere. Sigh... I know, I know... offtopic whining. :)

    --
    http://www.beanleafpress.com
    1. Re:A better warning would be... by kbielefe · · Score: 3, Funny

      They can't help using their phones while driving. Brain cancer impairs their judgment.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank.
    2. Re:A better warning would be... by hack++slash · · Score: 1

      If they do go ahead with this, will they also make McDonalds, Pizza Hut, KFC etc. put warnings in their menus/packaging that regular consumption of junk food will (probably) turn you into an unhealthy fat bastard?

      --
      To do something right, you often have to roll up your sleeves and get busy.
  64. Skeptoid by Faux_Pseudo · · Score: 1

    If you haven't heard the Skeptoid episode on the topic of cell phones and cancer its worth a listen.
    http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4117

  65. Telephone sanitizers by LeadSongDog · · Score: 3, Funny

    You mock them now, but for how long?

    --
    Oh, I'm sorry sir, I thought you were referring to me, Mr. Wensleydale.
  66. Bluetooth field strength is 1000 times weaker by George_Ou · · Score: 1

    Not that I would suggest cell phones are dangerous, but Bluetooth field strength is 1000 times weaker.

    Cell phones don’t produce dangerous radiation and they produce extremely small amounts of heat energy in the form of radio waves that might heat up a 154 pound person 1/100th of a degrees Celsius after an hour of absorbing 1 watt (which is unlikely to be that high) of radio wave energy from a cell phone.

  67. That's nothing by DerPflanz · · Score: 1

    we got a legislator (dutch) that wants a label on champagne bottles, because the popping cork may cause eye damage.

    --
    -- The Internet is a too slow way of doing things, you'd never do without it.
    1. Re:That's nothing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you’re going to link to pages in Dutch, at least make it a little easier for us by also linking to a Google translated version.

  68. The big one by rhook · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    The big one needs to hit and make San Francisco fall into the Pacific, that city does more harm to this nation than one can imagine.

  69. It'll really be funny when... by istartedi · · Score: 1

    ...they bust down your door to take out your pot grow, only to discover that it's WHEAT.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  70. cellphones and cancer by t3chn0n3rd · · Score: 0

    do cellphones cause cancer

  71. Blood pressure warning for politicians by rcpitt · · Score: 1
    To be applied with non-removeable glue (same kind as that wonderful notice about air bags on my car's visor) over the orafice just below the nose.

    Alternative placement is just above and to the rear of the thighs (left or right cheek - or both) - since we need to kiss this area to get any recognition - we'll be sure to see the warning.

    Anyone dealing with politicians should be aware that such dealing can lead to high blood pressure and potential stroke or other medical condition.

    --
    Been there, done that, paid for the T-shirt
    and didn't get it
  72. Cell phone health warning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem with putting a health warning on cell phones is the lack of scientific consensus on whether there is actually a hazard. This is very different from the situation with cigarettes, where there's a solid consensus in the medical field that says cigarettes cause cancer, heart disease, etc..

  73. Lizard People by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What we really need is a test that can distinguish lizard people from humans.

    The lizards are already gathering votes...

  74. Wrong! by gbutler69 · · Score: 1

    Marriage has little to do with religion historically, and everything to do with wealth/property rights.

    --
    Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
  75. Not wrong. by clone53421 · · Score: 1

    It has much to do with both, because civil and religious authorities have historically been one and the same.

    The United States was founded on the notion of separating the religious rules and authorities from the civil ones. Why then should marriage not receive the same treatment?

    --
    Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    1. Re:Not wrong. by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      because civil and religious authorities have historically been one and the same.

      Congratulations, you have your answer. Now that they're separate, marriage must fall under on or the other. Since the government has a class of persons called married, who receive certain rights and privileges, it makes sense that the government should define marriage.

      That the government allows religious leaders to perform the ceremony is essentially irrelevant, just like getting a document notarized at Kinko's doesn't give them any claim to authority or ownership over the document or the contract therein. In both cases, the role is essentially that of a third party independent witness certifying that the act took place. The church doesn't *marry* people; the people marry each other and the church certifies the act, but at no time is it a party to the contract.

      And frankly, churches refusing to marry gays in places where such marriage is permitted by law, is as much BS as Kinko's refusing to notarize a document on the same grounds. With increased authority comes increased responsibility, and I would assert that anyone who has the authority to certify a marriage should have the *obligation* to certify any legally proper marriage requested to him. Anything short of that provides the opportunity for an abuse of position.

      I am 100% for the freedom of religion, just as I am 100% in favor of freedom *from* religion. People should not have religious principles (aka principles based in faith and belief rather than fact and reason) forced upon them, whether it's priests refusing to marry people or pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions for birth control. You're in or you're out. You don't sign up for the military and then plead a conscientious objection to shooting enemies that wear crosses. You do the fucking job or you get the fuck out.

    2. Re:Not wrong. by clone53421 · · Score: 1

      Congratulations, you have your answer. Now that they're separate, marriage must fall under on or the other. Since the government has a class of persons called married, who receive certain rights and privileges, it makes sense that the government should define marriage.

      No. That’s exactly the wrong reasoning.

      The government should throw out by default all terminology that had a religious connection.

      Religion will never release its claim on a word. “Married” is too firmly attached to religious meaning to use in a legal sense.

      The law, on the other hand, couldn’t care less what word you use, as long as you define it and use it correctly and consistently.

      Thus it makes much more sense to let the various religious sects define “marriage” however they see fit, and they can bicker and fight over whether these people’s marriage is legitimate on the basis of their differing faiths. The law, on the other hand, could replace every occurrence of the word “marriage” (and related words) with “civil union” and the only drawback would be that someone would have to find them and change them and they would have to re-create all their forms and paperwork to reflect this.

      frankly, churches refusing to marry gays in places where such marriage is permitted by law, is as much BS as Kinko's refusing to notarize a document on the same grounds

      No, it’s more like Kinkos refusing to “copy” a picture off your camera card onto an ice-cream cake. I don’t care if you call it a copy: what you want is something different from what they offer. Go find somewhere that sells what you’re looking for.

      If we just let churches oversee “marriages” however they saw fit, we could require anyone wanting to be legally joined file for the proper paperwork and get legally joined – but using a word other than “marriage” to avoid all this ridiculous confusion (i.e. a civil union). In fact if you don’t want a religious “marriage” you wouldn’t even have to get one.

      The main problem with the “civil union” is that that as long as “marriage” is still on the books gays can claim their civil union is “less” than a marriage in some sense. If you eliminate “marriage” from the law and replace it completely with a “civil union”, this problem would disappear.

      I am 100% for the freedom of religion, just as I am 100% in favor of freedom *from* religion. People should not have religious principles (aka principles based in faith and belief rather than fact and reason) forced upon them, whether it's priests refusing to marry people or pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions for birth control.

      Then stop having religious leaders act as agents of the government f’rgodssakes.

      An agent of a religion has every right to refuse to do something for someone on the basis of religious beliefs. An agent of the government cannot.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  76. Why? by gbutler69 · · Score: 1

    Most people's brains aren't worth saving.

    --
    Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
  77. nonsense by JumpSocial · · Score: 1

    There are a lot more warnings they should be working on before they should be putting warnings of stuff that isn't proven. They should warn not to drive using a cell phone. I'm sure there are people who actually are killed from than.

    --
    Inventor, Artist http://www.Rubber-Power.com
  78. Thank You For Smoking by skeeto · · Score: 1

    Thank You For Smoking becomes reality.