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How Can I Contribute To Open Source?

rtobyr writes "I work for a state government agency. That means we can't donate money, because it's a 'gift of public funds.' I had the idea to put up a Web page stating that we 'use the following free software to save tax dollars,' as a way to help spread the word about open source software, but management calls this an 'endorsement.' A mirror server is a no-go as well. I'm certainly not a talented enough programmer to help with development. I've donated $10 here and there out of my own pocket, but I'm hoping you Slashdotters have some creative ideas about how my organization could give something back to the teams that create free software we benefit so much from."

332 comments

  1. Pay for your free licenses by alain94040 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Buy support. Pay for your Linux licenses. Just because it's open source doesn't mean that you should pay $0.

    By buying from a legitimate open source company, you help reinforce the open source eco-system.

    And it's all legitimate: it's not a donation, so your boss shouldn't object. You are still saving a lot of money compared to buying a proprietary solution, but you are helping people who code full-time sustain themselves. Let's face it, developers are the critical resource for most open source projects.

    PS: some cool startups are looking for extra developers/founders: help people go solar, build a better bug collector tool, or help build a music community that supports its bands.

    1. Re:Pay for your free licenses by FictionPimp · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Exactly. My company has used OpenVPN for a long time. Recently I saw their nice pay product and convinced my boss that the features it offered was worth it (wasn't a hard sell at all). Now we have bought 20 user licenses of OpenVPN. It allowed us to give back, and still look good to the business office.

    2. Re:Pay for your free licenses by Forge · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You also don't need to buy support from an existing provider. You can ask the project leaders for something you find valuable to submit a bid for annual support within a defined price range. With the price range limited, they automatically win on competence.

      This means you could for-instance switch from Windows to KDE on 100 desktops and offer the KDE project the bargain basement fee of $10 per PC, per year to deliver the desktop the way you like and respond to concerns.

      --
      --= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
    3. Re:Pay for your free licenses by BobMcD · · Score: 4, Informative

      You are still saving a lot of money compared to buying a proprietary solution...

      Except when you're not.

      I'm looking at you, RedHat and SUSE.

    4. Re:Pay for your free licenses by Kalriath · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You also don't need to buy support from an existing provider. You can ask the project leaders for something you find valuable to submit a bid for annual support within a defined price range. With the price range limited, they automatically win on competence.

      I don't know what it's like over there (I expect it's similar) but over here that would be illegal as any competitor to that project could file court action claiming corruption in the tender process. And win.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    5. Re:Pay for your free licenses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It really irritates me when sites break links for no real reason... The link you point to doesn't use actual links to the pages with the data on them for the listed projects, which prevents me from firing off the pages for the projects I thought were interesting in other tabs. Other than that, it's a cool idea.

    6. Re:Pay for your free licenses by bragr · · Score: 1

      I thought SUSE was about $50 when I saw it on a store shelf but that was a 2 or so years ago.

    7. Re:Pay for your free licenses by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The box itself is cheaper, but (extra) paid support for it is often quite a bit more expensive than what you get for many proprietary products.

      It makes sense, too, since the company has to recoup costs somewhere. If boxes are cheap, and if the distro can simply be rebranded and distributed for free (*cough* CentOS *cough* OpenSUSE), then support is essentially the sole source of money.

    8. Re:Pay for your free licenses by Mad+Merlin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So, how much does a support contract with unlimited incidents from Microsoft cost for Windows 2008 Slightly Less Artificially Crippled Edition (TM)? Keep in mind you need to buy the software too, and that starts around $1000 and does not come with any support whatsoever.

    9. Re:Pay for your free licenses by raddan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Ditto. We've been running OpenBSD in our server room for years, and we duly pay for it. We buy 1 copy of the newest release for every machine running OpenBSD, regardless of whether that machine gets an upgrade or not. The bean counters don't have a problem with it because we're paying less than other IT divisions in the company, but we're still shelling out about $5k a year to the project. If we could afford to pay more, we would, but we have other things that we have to pay for as well.

    10. Re:Pay for your free licenses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This means you could for-instance switch from Windows to KDE on 100 desktops and offer the KDE project the bargain basement fee of $10 per PC, per year to deliver the desktop the way you like and respond to concerns.

      100 desktops x $10/desktop = $1000

      Exactly how much support is that paltry $1000 going to get them from the KDE project?

    11. Re:Pay for your free licenses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh STFU. You only have to pay for RHEL if you want support. ZOMG HOW TERRIBLE!!1!cos(0)!!1!

    12. Re:Pay for your free licenses by lakeland · · Score: 1

      None; it's a donation that's put through as a support contract for legal reasons

    13. Re:Pay for your free licenses by wvmarle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What is that based on? As long as the tender is open ("we want option x and we are willing to pay no more than $y for it") and offered to all other competitors as well where is the problem? Or are you not allowed to put a price on a tender beforehand?

      If you would offer directly to a developer or two without allowing competitors to bid, I can imagine it's illegal indeed.

    14. Re:Pay for your free licenses by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      I worked for a college, and gladly bought a handfull of copies of Redhat server for $50 each (which is what redhat sold it to schools at, with no support) when I could have used CentOS (And did use it on my 2 development systems) because I wanted to support Linux. Windows was a few hundred dollars each for machines that would support that amount of CPU's and Ram, so we were still saving the taxpayers lots of money...

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    15. Re:Pay for your free licenses by Herby+Sagues · · Score: 0, Troll

      So the question is what ways you could waste the taxpayer's money to support a personal crusade? I suggest that you send threatening letters to other department's managers promising something bad if they don't switch to Linux. Or you can give away office supplies to Red Hat employees. Or something along the lines that's equally immoral, but that seems to be well aligned to your way of seeing the public administration.

    16. Re:Pay for your free licenses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And don't forget the extra products you have to buy to round out your MS server because it doesn't come with them. Oh and if you want SQL to run on more than one core... keep forking the $s it over. Oh and higher some ass hat to keep track of excessively complex licensing.

      I'm gonna get modded troll aren't I?

    17. Re:Pay for your free licenses by clarkkent09 · · Score: 1

      Can't believe this was modded up. What part of it's not his money you don't understand?

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    18. Re:Pay for your free licenses by Anpheus · · Score: 3, Informative

      Huh? Windows Server 2008 starts around $850 and you own it, and the SA is around $150. Or you can pay $350 for three years and then $150 for every year after that. You can use whoever's cluster management you want. If you want more features, step it up to Enterprise. If you want unlimited VMs, step that up to Datacenter (at a hefty cost, but you get unlimited supported VMs on the server.)

      Windows on the desktop is around $200 if you want to buy it outright, or about $100 annually for support.

      Your incidents is based on the quantity of your licenses, and you do get hotfixes and premium support if Microsoft is at fault. And they do follow through on this. If it bluescreens and it's a Windows driver, they consider that a serious matter and one that you won't be dinged for as a support incident.

      Frankly, I've never had to use a support incident for Windows or Windows Server. Any competent IT or developer should be able to figure it out, and being the most popular desktop OS makes it pretty easy to find fixes. I have called Microsoft support on their other products, and they were fast, escalated the issue quickly and took care of the problem. No support incident was incurred, no charge, no bill or invoice delivered.

      Fault them in many ways, like most large businesses they aren't there for your benefit. They're there for their benefit. But providing support to businesses that few people complain about is clearly in their best interest.

      Oh, and for a comparison, Red Hat Desktop with premium support is three times the price of Windows Enterprise (the one with all the bells and whistles.) And frankly, offering "unlimited incidents" with a two day turnaround time and no way to directly talk to someone is a joke. The Red Hat Server editions with premium support are right around where the Windows Server prices are for different SKUs.

      Red Hat Enterprise Virtualization isn't even funny. It's $750/socket for 24x7 phone support, per year. Hyper-V is free. Xen is free. KVM is free. ESXi is free. If you don't want Hyper-V without support, buy Windows Server Standard, it's $350 a year for the same support, and it's per server. You don't get dinged by the processor. If you're going to pay through the nose, you better be getting VMWare because at least they have the crazy advanced feature-set to back it up.

      Anyhow, that's just the perspective from a midsized (i.e.: tiny and insignificant compared to the big boys) business.

    19. Re:Pay for your free licenses by JonJ · · Score: 2, Informative

      Huh? Windows Server 2008 starts around $850 and you own it, and the SA is around $150.

      No it isn't http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116499&cm_re=windows_server_2008-_-32-116-499-_-Product and no you don't. Microsoft owns it.

      --
      -- Linux user #369862
    20. Re:Pay for your free licenses by atomic-penguin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The original poster was vague about the type of open source software which is saving the taxpayers money. It may be a distribution, or it may be an entirely different animal, such as one single desktop application, or enterprise-level server software.

      This means you could for-instance switch from Windows to KDE on 100 desktops and offer the KDE project the bargain basement fee of $10 per PC, per year to deliver the desktop the way you like and respond to concerns.

      This means you could for-instance switch from Windows to KDE on 100 desktops and offer the KDE project the bargain basement fee of $10 per PC, per year to deliver the desktop the way you like and respond to concerns.

      No, it doesn't. If the policy is, that you can't donate, then you can't *bleeping* donate. It is entirely possible this advice could lead to charges of fraud, other felony charges for misappropriation of funds, and jail time.

      The support level circumstances vary per vendor, and size, of the Open Source project. For your particular example, there is no company, which I know of, that offers Support Level Agreements for "just KDE". However, if the OSS package is a "supported" package by your distro vendor of choice, then you legitimately purchase support contracts. Using your example of 100 KDE desktops, you could buy 100 Kubuntu Advanced Support contracts from Canonical at roughly $120 per year which comes out to $12,000, not $1,000 as in your example. Chances are that you are using more than KDE, as one component, in an entire distribution. If you are going to advocate buying support, then advocate buying a support contract. There are obviously other ways you can contribute to an Open Source distribution project, other than monetary contributions. Things that come to mind are: working on documentation or translations; filing bug reports; packaging software.

      Many large and well-established Open Source products have companies that will offer paid support for that particular product. If my organization wants a support contract for wine, because they might need to run a Windows-only Office Suite or a particular version of Photoshop. Then they could buy a copy of Crossover Pro from Codeweavers for roughly $70 per copy, and a support extension for $35 year per copy. This money gets you both support, and directly supports the enhancement and development of wine. Although the prices vary, this same support system has been applied to other projects such as Samba. You can buy enterprise support from a company such as Likewise, a vendor who offers a "Samba-like" product and directly supports the enhancement and development of Samba through paid developers. Otherwise, you can buy support from a distro vendor such as Novell or RedHat at a cost of $60-800 per server each year, just for the base OS and standard server applications. Enterprise distro maintainers also have paid developers whom contribute a great deal to the enhancement and development of enterprise-level server applications.

      Some exceptions are when you have a small, hobbyist, higher-ed, or government Open Source project. Maybe it is a new and small project. Perhaps they have only 1 or 2 developers that work on the project part-time. These type of projects probably do not have an established support system. The developers may not even be able to take monetary contributions, or have a system set up to do so. Some developers may have to opt for gifts purchased through an Amazon wist list for legal reasons. Accepting donations may be a legal issue with an employer who pays the developer to work on that particular Open Source project. It is another issue if the developer is a government employee and is forbidden to take large gifts, or accept money, which could be construed as a bribe (assuming they work on this project as part of their job).

      I was involved in consulting work, a few years back, for a fairly large hospital. The hospital made use of Open Source Firmware for commodity Linksys Wireless Routers.

      --
      /^([Ss]ame [Bb]at (time, |channel.)){2}$/
    21. Re:Pay for your free licenses by gander666 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I will venture to guess that the parent poster is in Europe. There are wacky laws there on bids and tenders. Any one who submits a bid and doens't get selected can hold the tender up for ungodly lengths of time with (seemingly) silly arguments ($10 per desktop is too low of a price, What they really want is windows blah blah blah).

      I used to be in the business of selling analytical instrumentation there, and you can win the tender, and not get the order for 6 or more months. And fritter away your profit fighting all the bullshit flung at you by competitors.

      --
      Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
    22. Re:Pay for your free licenses by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      With open source everything is open. There are many ways to contribute to open source beyond coding the software. There is promotion, simply provide honest personal recommendations for the product, distribution when making recommendation offer to supply a copy on disc and assist with installation, artwork if your coding sucks but you have flair on the creative side assist with icons, web art, themes etc., documentation assist in writing manuals and guides and of course forum participation providing assistance to newer users.

      All of that counts far more than buying a hand full of minor support contracts. Help yourself, by helping others, that is what drives the growth of open source software products, the reality is more often than not your personal time and skills are worth far more to open source than your money and, of course don't forget to have fun while doing it, it's the FOSS way ;).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    23. Re:Pay for your free licenses by ByOhTek · · Score: 1

      He said "starts at", not "the ultra high end model".

      $660 for the entry model "standard" server (non-upgrade): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116452

      Although, contrary to parent's comment, it's per CPU, not box, but it's 4 CPUs, and you don't find many system with more than 4 for that type of server.

      Or $680 for the Itanium variant like what you mentioned - no processor limit mentioned: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116806

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    24. Re:Pay for your free licenses by LOLLinux · · Score: 1

      You're a fucking idiot. Why would you buy it for full retail price from Newegg when you can get discounted volume licenses from Microsoft?

    25. Re:Pay for your free licenses by neurovish · · Score: 1

      You're a fucking idiot. Why would you buy it for full retail price from Newegg when you can get discounted volume licenses from Microsoft?

      Probably because the grandparent was quoting retail pricing for RHEL. I'm not even sure what their "Virtualization for Servers" is selling anyways since basic RHEL and Advanced Platform come with KVM, and Advanced Platform covers unlimited guests and unlimited sockets.

    26. Re:Pay for your free licenses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ugh, don't know my account password, but I'm at work and read this inanity.

      Server Standard and Server Enterprise are per box, limit of 4 sockets. Server Datacenter is per socket.

    27. Re:Pay for your free licenses by richlv · · Score: 1

      that's a great advice. another - order some new functionality or changes.

      basically, a procurement to implement some feature you might be missing in the software. maybe improve some functionality.
      it's a legitimate contract, and in the end you (and everybody else) gets some great feature.

      --
      Rich
    28. Re:Pay for your free licenses by JorgeFierro · · Score: 1

      How exactly is that a waste?

    29. Re:Pay for your free licenses by Forge · · Score: 1

      I worked for 6 years in the local branch of a global support company. Often times the customer would buy several support contracts on different parts of the same solution from different vendors.

      An example is a system where the Database Server is supported by Sun and Oracle. The Application Server is supported by Microsoft and Dell, The AntiVirus by Macafee, The FILE SYSTEM is supported by Veritas, The actual business application by the company that wrote it and the overall package by Fujitsu (The place I worked)

      All this support was based on different SLAs and with different deliverables and response times and at different prices.

      KDE at $10 per desktop is just a hypothetical example. It's up to the agency to determine which piece of software is important enough to require dedicated support from it's authors, what level of support and the cash value of that support.

      It could be anything from 24/7 2 hour telephone response for show stopper errors on a device driver or system library to response within a week during business hours tweak requests and configuration queries on an end user desktop application or just delivery of routine updates and patches.

      Real life prices could go from the $39 per year/machine our client paid for AV to the Thousands per year we paid for each of File System, Backup software, Database, Business App.

      Are you telling me there is no space to add dedicated support for an application your agency considers critical? Or to pay someone with the required competence to deliver customization?

      Not every project or developer can handle a support contract or even donations. For those you just have to give them moral support, but for those which are set up (like SAMBA and WINE that you named) this is a trivial move.

      The Key thing is to make sure you can justify this expense to an auditor. Not a difficult thing when you swapped out a $1000+ package (Like Windows File Server) for SAMBA at a much lower cost and with better guaranteed response time than Microsoft offers.

      --
      --= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
    30. Re:Pay for your free licenses by buchanmilne · · Score: 1

      Red Hat Enterprise Virtualization isn't even funny. It's $750/socket for 24x7 phone support, per year. Hyper-V is free. Xen is free. KVM is free. ESXi is free. If you don't want Hyper-V without support, buy Windows Server Standard, it's $350 a year for the same support, and it's per server. You don't get dinged by the processor. If you're going to pay through the nose, you better be getting VMWare because at least they have the crazy advanced feature-set to back it up.

      But, Red Hat Advanced Platform (starting at $1499/year, with unlimited sockets/memory includes clustering, GFS (to support live VM migration) and unlimited supported Red Hat guests, which inherit the base features (clustering and GFS). You don't get the RHEV management platform, but the server supports being managed by the RHEV management platform (which is a separate "per managed socket subscription of $500).

      I think you've misunderstood RH's virtualisation strategy, the RHEV product *is* the competitor to VMWare's "crazy advanced feature-set" (competing with their vCenter product set), but (AFAIK) there is no "cheap" VMWare solution that provides HA, whereas RHEL Advanced Platform (without RHEV) does.

      On RHEL standard, you're limited to 4 supported free Red Hat VMs, and 2 sockets on the host, starting at $349/year.

    31. Re:Pay for your free licenses by ByOhTek · · Score: 1

      Great, XML is better than SQL for some data manipulation tasks.

      Last I checked, XML and SQL weren't the only options.

      --
      Self proclaimed typo king, and inventor of the bear destroying coffee table (patent not pending).
    32. Re:Pay for your free licenses by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      New Zealand, actually. But that crap goes on here too.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    33. Re:Pay for your free licenses by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      You aren't allowed to put a price on a tender to the best of my knowledge. The idea is that the tender goes out with requirements, and the responses come in with the prices. You'd then pick the one that best meets the requirements (interestingly, you don't have to select the lowest quote).

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    34. Re:Pay for your free licenses by Anpheus · · Score: 1

      I think you're confusing VMWare's HA and everyone else's. VMWare has a solution that allows a server to be unplugged and the VM remains up. Red Hat, Hyper-V, Xen, etc, currently can't do that. It's very tricky work.

      http://www.vmware.com/products/fault-tolerance/

      I mean, that's even a step above HA. You set your cluster to replicate the memory and actions of a VM and you can pull the plug and everything keeps going.

      As far as prices go, it sounds pretty good, but again, please don't quote "starting at." Quote one with comparable support. Microsoft's support is 24x7 phone support and after the 2nd or 3rd year of payments (depending on licensing program), the annual cost drops to a third or a half of the initial annual costs. So even Windows Server Datacenter drops down to around $1300 a year (still per socket, eugh) and Windows Server Enterprise drops to around $600 a year (8 socket max, 4 virtual instances included, so still not as good as RH Advanced Platform.)

      We could continue to argue prices all day, but the point I was trying to make was that there's a ton of FUD about Windows pricing. And calling it Windows 2008 Not Crippled Edition is almost as bad as calling them M$. Some features cost more to implement, more to support, and more to maintain. This is true in the open source and proprietary world, and I just get annoyed when I read nonsense like he spouted.

    35. Re:Pay for your free licenses by Anpheus · · Score: 1

      I'm confused on the relevance, but I'd agree. If you're targetting open source platforms and want paid support, you'd be doing something wrong if you paid for Windows Server Datacenter edition. And if your management stack is open source as well, and you're using KVM or VMWare or something else, why switch to Hyper-V and have the headache of a split environment?

    36. Re:Pay for your free licenses by Anpheus · · Score: 1

      RHEV looks like it's their hypervisor solution and management built into one SKU, without emphasizing the "linux" part.

  2. You're doing it wrong. by girlintraining · · Score: 2, Informative

    I had the idea to put up a Web page stating that we 'use the following free software to save tax dollars,' as a way to help spread the word about open source software, but management calls this an 'endorsement.' A mirror server is a no-go as well. I'm certainly not a talented enough programmer to help with development.

    First, if your manager says don't put up a web page, then don't. End of discussion. Yes he might be wrong. In fact, it's likely he's wrong. But you have a job to do -- don't risk it by challenging your boss. It's enough you're saving taxpayer dollars doing that, even if it isn't acknowledged (Thank You).

    Second... I don't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server. Plenty of other people do that already, and even if they didn't, we have bittorrent.

    --
    #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    1. Re:You're doing it wrong. by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But you have a job to do -- don't risk it by challenging your boss.

      Maybe it's just the person you are, but I think you're flat out wrong. Putting your head down and just doing your job instead of making a persuasive argument and showing the benefits is simply pathetic (especially at a government job, where it's typically much more difficult to get fired/laid off). Before working for myself, I've challenged bosses before when I thought a decision was grossly incorrect (don't quibble over little stuff), and have even gone above them before with less than horrible results (once got a raise, once got my boss' job). Not to go too far off-topic though, going through life never challenging those above you is.....no way to go through life.

    2. Re:You're doing it wrong. by ThrowAwaySociety · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Second... I don't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server. Plenty of other people do that already, and even if they didn't, we have bittorrent.

      Indeed. Government should be as efficient as possible. As a public servant, your responsibility is to the taxpayers. You should offer only those contributions which do not increase the burden on those taxpayers, or which directly benefit them.

      If you can't contribute bugfixes or enhancements, then contribute by filing bug reports and feature requests. Possibly documentation, but only if it is something that you, your coworkers, or your eventual replacement would use in the future. (IE documenting the structure of an unclear config file, not writing a detailed tutorial.)

      Anything else you want to do, do it on your own time and your own dime.

    3. Re:You're doing it wrong. by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Maybe it's just the person you are, but I think you're flat out wrong.

      You're entitled to your opinion, but I'm speaking from a decade of experience in the field.

      Putting your head down and just doing your job instead of making a persuasive argument and showing the benefits is simply pathetic

      He made his argument. He lost. Move on. Pressing the issue will only irritate management. It's not business-critical and it's not impacting his professional reputation. If it was, then appeal to upper management and/or write a CYA letter informing them of the consequences if your professional recommendation is not followed.

      You admit that you don't quibble over little stuff. This is pretty minor -- his job is IT and while his aims are noble he hasn't been asked to represent his employer. That's somebody else's job. You have to recognize the limitations of your job function and work within them -- that's not putting your head down, that's being a professional and doing your job.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    4. Re:You're doing it wrong. by girlintraining · · Score: 4, Informative

      Possibly documentation, but only if it is something that you, your coworkers, or your eventual replacement would use in the future. (IE documenting the structure of an unclear config file, not writing a detailed tutorial.)

      Actually, writing up documentation is a great way to contribute to open source. If written in a generic fashion, it can be released to other government organizations (and the general public). There's plenty of other ways to advocate open source that are work-related as well.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    5. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Lord+Kano · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      First, if your manager says don't put up a web page, then don't. End of discussion.

      Not quite. If you believe that your manager is wrong, go to his boss.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    6. Re:You're doing it wrong. by reub2000 · · Score: 1

      Second... I don't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server. Plenty of other people do that already, and even if they didn't, we have bittorrent.

      Many of the mirros that download from are hosted by state universities, and guess who funds those.

    7. Re:You're doing it wrong. by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      I guess I jumped into running my own consulting firm (and out of working for a manager) fast enough that I'm not cynical to the point that it's just a job if it's something you care about. I wish your 10 years in the industry had been better than my 10 =( I seem to have had the opposite experience, but I've worked at Pixar, a DOE lab, and Google, so YMMV.

    8. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Hecatonchires · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Name dropper

      --

      Yay me!

    9. Re:You're doing it wrong. by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You'd do it to if you got to work there ;) Besides, I was trying to prove a point. It's not like I've worked at easy going places my entire career. The DOE lab was extremely stuffy and bureaucratic, but I was able to make a lot of great changes by getting to the right people.

    10. Re:You're doing it wrong. by solid_liq · · Score: 1

      "Second... I don't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server."

      You sound like a Microsoft junkie. I suppose you think opensource is, "evil evil bad!"?

    11. Re:You're doing it wrong. by digitalunity · · Score: 1

      There is something to be said for being an advocate for your position and arguing for what you think is right. But there comes a point where you have to cede that the final decision is made by those above you(or by your client) and that ultimately you must do as they want.

      By accepting this, you can make a professional argument to support your position and still save face when you lose the argument. Pushing too hard will make you look bullish or get you fired.

      As for the submitters original question, buying support for business critical programs is the best way. Or if nothing else, if you're using Linux, buy your distribution from a vendor instead of downloading the ISO.

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    12. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Nutria · · Score: 1

      go to his boss

      That's a sure way to piss off a person uniquely able to make your life miserable.

      In this case, such policies must be written. Track them down and verify whether your boss is correct.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    13. Re:You're doing it wrong. by gbarules2999 · · Score: 1

      I don't see him challenging his boss anywhere - he's just relaying the story so he can say what did and did not work in the past. I think you're jumping to assumptions here.

    14. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ummm...tell your (idiot) managers to google "open source in government"...:-)

      Here's a starter:
      http://goscon.org/

    15. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First, if your manager says don't put up a web page, then don't. End of discussion. Yes he might be wrong. In fact, it's likely he's wrong.

      Indeed, heaven forbid we might imply that we actually ENDORSE the software we use!!

    16. Re:You're doing it wrong. by SydShamino · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Indeed. Government should be as efficient as possible. As a public servant, your responsibility is to the taxpayers. You should offer only those contributions which do not increase the burden on those taxpayers, or which directly benefit them.

      It's that direct stipulation that leads to short-sightedness, and ends up costing taxpayers billions in the long run.

      "Oh, well we don't need to shore up these levies in New Orleans. There's no immediate benefit when there hasn't been a major hurricane in years."

      "Oh, bridges can last a little while longer than designed. We'll just send someone by periodically to do a cursory check. That's a lot cheaper than replacing all those 1930s projects."

      "Who cares about preventative care. If you want that, get insurance and go to your doctor. Never mind that taxpayers will cover you when your problem gets worse and you go to the emergency room uninsured."

      "Regulation is an inefficient burden on commerce. It's hard to show a direct benefit when you back during a boom and ignore any lessons more than three years old. Just let it all go, and the publicly-chartered companies will police themselves!"

      I think we have very different opinions on "efficient". I believe that long-term and indirect benefits can be significantly more efficient than short-term nearsightedness, and the government if anyone should be able to look at the long term. In this case, for example, he should find a way to fund the projects he uses (such as buying support licenses), because in the long term it will keep the projects active and improving, and save significant cost versus a system redesign due to an EOL/abandoned software product.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    17. Re:You're doing it wrong. by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      I agree very much with both of your points (my debate with girlintraining and your answer to OP's question). As a fan of like-minded individual's, next time you're in Chicago or San Francisco, let me know if you want to grab a beer (I've got offices in both locations).

    18. Re:You're doing it wrong. by bberens · · Score: 4, Interesting

      *shrug* At my company I put it in the suggestion box to support some of the open source projects we use. The manager pulled it out and got with a few other development departments and all of a sudden several open source projects got a check for several thousand dollars each last year. I was hoping we'd drop them a $10 spot or something. Not every work place would do that.

      --
      Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
    19. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      You are a fsking moron. What if he has mouths to feed? "Got fired today, but it's okay, I defended freeeeeeedom, GNU, and Open Source"

    20. Re:You're doing it wrong. by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      I guess I jumped into running my own consulting firm (and out of working for a manager) fast enough that I'm not cynical to the point that it's just a job if it's something you care about.

      Well there you go. You're the boss, so you're always right. Of COURSE you would encourage yourself to stand up for what you believe in - you are the boss. The boss ALWAYS does that. What you need, on the other hand, are examples of where your employees stood up to you and changed your mind, or preferably elevated their career by doing so. That might be constructive. But if you are neither employer nor employee then your opinion probably doesn't carry that much weight as you have nothing personal at stake.

    21. Re:You're doing it wrong. by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      go to his boss

      That's a sure way to piss off a person uniquely able to make your life miserable.

      In this case, such policies must be written. Track them down and verify whether your boss is correct.

      Agreed. Be careful where you crap when your boss can make you sit wherever he wants.

    22. Re:You're doing it wrong. by supernova_hq · · Score: 1

      Actually, there are laws about government agencies endorsing products. Not sure how restrictive it is, but they are not supposed to "sponsor" or have their names put on products. "Saying we use it" may be allowed, but don't bet on it.

    23. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >If you believe that your manager is wrong, go to his boss.

      Get bad performance reviews much?

      Going over your bosses' head on any signficant matter is pretty much the nuclear option and generally results in either you or him losing a job.

    24. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      out of state students, alumni, and sports teams?

    25. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It never says his job is IT.

    26. Re:You're doing it wrong. by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      I thought my argument was that the boss *wasn't* always right. I highlighted my situation because I *am* and open-minded boss. A good example would be (funny enough) an open source product we were using (RT), and while we didn't need support for it my employee made the case why we should support them when previously I thought we might be too small of an organization to contribute a meaningful amount. Now, we contribute financially to any open source project whose product/code we use sufficiently. Hence, why I was on slashdot pushing against girlintraining. I don't want my employees to ever not come to me either with an idea or a better way of doing things. And if you don't agree with me, let's argue the merits of both decisions. I've seen the "better" (I think) way of managing, and hence why I posted my opinion that people *should* dissent and not blindly trudge on.

    27. Re:You're doing it wrong. by gbjbaanb · · Score: 2, Informative

      +1 to Documentation. A lot of Open Source projects are created by programmers to do some task, unfortunately that means the rest of the development ecosystem (project management, testing, documentation, installation, support etc) don't get enough attention *

      If you're not comfortable coding, that's good, you can help out by making the project better quality by helping out with those areas.

      * except project management, of course.

    28. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      You're right. And similar laws exist in many countries. But I've seen plenty of disclaimers on government websites that include a "Disclaimer of Endorsement". It basically says that although a product may be mentioned, it isn't meant to imply an "endorsement, recommendation, or favoring" by the government.

      So, maybe he can acknowledge the software used as long as there is a suitable disclaimer attached.

    29. Re:You're doing it wrong. by plasticsquirrel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In imperial China, the ideal for developing strategies and large plans as the emperor, was to carefully consider any foreseeable impacts over the course of 500 years. Of course, not every decision was actually made with this sort of wisdom, but it was certainly the ideal and the way rulers and scholars were educated.

      Long term thinking is something we largely lack today in government, even in our ideals of governance, and it's dangerously short-sighted. This leads to not only shoddy patchwork and disasters like New Orleans, but larger cultural instability as well, which leads to disasters of its own.

      --
      Systemd: the PulseAudio of init systems
    30. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      Not quite. If you believe that your manager is wrong, go to his boss.

      Wow, going over your boss's head for something as trivial as this? Bad, bad career move.

      Here's my career advice: don't take career advice from people on Slashdot. Even me.

    31. Re:You're doing it wrong. by lgarner · · Score: 1

      No, he sounds like someone who wants his tax dollars to go where they're supposed to. A pipe dream, to be sure, but he's quite right in not wanting his government paying for non-government extras.

      I'd vote for simply paying for the licenses over running a mirror or extra web site.

    32. Re:You're doing it wrong. by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      It's a government job. That means he's spending other people's money - the taxpayers'. I like open source, too; I donate to projects that are doing really great work. But that doesn't mean my tax dollars should go to them.

    33. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Tynin · · Score: 1

      You sound like a Microsoft junkie. I suppose you think opensource is, "evil evil bad!"?

      The deftness of your cunning response, and the visuals they invoke make me think you've really been enjoying your Jump to Conclusions Mat.

    34. Re:You're doing it wrong. by roju · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Long term thinking is something we largely lack today

      Fixed.

    35. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Tynin · · Score: 1

      Just for the lols I checked solid_liq history (boring day at work, sorry for the double post, shame on me)... Wow, you've not posted in over a month, and yet you bothered to respond over something as minor as this opinion? Dude, you might be one of the most laid back and relaxed trolls on the entire internet! Bravo!

    36. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Lord+Kano · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      That's a sure way to piss off a person uniquely able to make your life miserable.

      Only if you let him. We are not indentured servants. If your boss sucks, find a new job. It's what I do.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    37. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Lord+Kano · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Get bad performance reviews much?

      Occasionally.

      Going over your bosses' head on any signficant matter is pretty much the nuclear option and generally results in either you or him losing a job.

      I'm quick to go over a boss's head. If the boss is wrong, his boss needs to know. I do not have a need to be liked by my boss. As long as I'm acceptable to myself, I'm content.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    38. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      Wow, going over your boss's head for something as trivial as this?

      Principle is never trivial. If an employer can force you to compromise on a small issue, it's only a matter of time until they're pressuring you to compromise on a big issue.

      Bad, bad career move.

      It's just a job, you can find another one.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    39. Re:You're doing it wrong. by hedwards · · Score: 1

      One of my thoughts was that it would be legitimate to pay a bounty for bugfixes or additional features that are relevant to the agency. If the choice is made well, it can both be efficient for the tax payers and of benefit to those that use the product.

    40. Re:You're doing it wrong. by icebraining · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So they should use the applications and not pay them back? What kind of cheapskate attitude is that?

      If there's wasn't any good Open Source apps, you would probably pay *more* than any kind of donation.

    41. Re:You're doing it wrong. by rnturn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "But that doesn't mean my tax dollars should go to them."

      But it's OK for taxpayer dollars to go into the coffers of a corporation? I find that odd.

      --
      CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    42. Re:You're doing it wrong. by uniquename72 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I donate to projects that are doing really great work. But that doesn't mean my tax dollars should go to them.

      Typical knee-jerk conservatism by someone who doesn't understand conservatism (or basic finance). There's nothing wrong with making an investment in resources, which is what he's trying to do.

      Giving a little money to continue the development of a product the state is using and that's saving the state significant money is an investment, as surely as doing maintenance on a bridge or a highway is an investment. The money helps ensure continued development and support for the product, so that the state spends a little right now to save a lot in the long run.

      This is basic small-'r' republicanism that has been foolishly and disingenuously demonized by big-'R' Republicans to the point where government investment now takes place in multimillion dollar rebuilds (and multi-trillion dollar bailouts) instead of common sense, long-term money-saving measures.

      _______________
      Yes, I'm a conservative.

    43. Re:You're doing it wrong. by rnturn · · Score: 1

      "I don't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server."

      Hmm... I regularly download Linux patches from a mirror server located at a federally-operated site. I personally don't have a problem with that use of the taxpayers' money. Perhaps because I'm not one of those "turn everything over to the private marketplace" loons. That's not to say there aren't some uses of tax dollars that I find offensive. Things like blowing up civilians in foreign countries that really don't want us to be there, for example. But, hey, we all have our little eccentricities.

      --
      CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    44. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      working in R&D for the federal government, I've been trying to promote open source scientific and technical software, as well as acrobat/photoshop/etc alternatives that are decent quality. Obviously I can't use my position to promote one solution over another. But my personal software choices make a local budget difference (a matlab license is not cheap). Also, when appropriate I reference the technical software I use in any conference and journal papers I write. "simulations were performed with the open source ELMER finite element code, etc." Using Octave, I've run across my share of bugs and fed them back into the system, and I documented typo's and edits in the Elmer documentation as I was learning it.

      So, there are ways to contribute even if you aren't a coder. If you are, maybe you can argue benefit of a bit of your time improving and fixing the software. Keep it focused, though. don't want to detract from the cause.

    45. Re:You're doing it wrong. by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      As the OP stated "He made his argument. He lost. Move on." - Unless you have supernatural powers that make your arguments invincible you have done the same thing in the past, no?

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    46. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His consulting probably revolves around advising customers to supersize their orders.

    47. Re:You're doing it wrong. by rnturn · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Speaking of wasting the taxpayers' money: what about all those NTP servers that are being operated by state Universities? I need to change all those "server" records in my network's NTP setup immediately.

      --
      CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    48. Re:You're doing it wrong. by BigSlowTarget · · Score: 1

      Challenge is a relative term and I think you should make a good case, but once its decided (especially on 'policy' grounds where responsibility and liability rest more with him than you) accept the decision. Persistently bringing up an issue without any new data simply because you don't like what decision was made is not only a great way to show disrespect but also says you can't be trusted to accept a decision that is not yours to make.

      If somebody started pushing me like that I'd recognize it as an attempt to push me around and respond appropriately. That kind of thing is not a firing issue but push too hard and you get a quiet talk. Keep pushing and you get a temporary assignment that gets you out of my hair, possibly relating to organizing the controversial office Christmas party without a budget or explaining to each person why there won't be bonuses this year. I would certainly never assign you to write up proper documentation for the cranky mission critical seven million line COBOL program made by dyslexic autistic hippies in the 80s.

    49. Re:You're doing it wrong. by demonlapin · · Score: 1, Troll

      Oh, I understand conservatism pretty well; it's why I'm not one.

    50. Re:You're doing it wrong. by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      (especially at a government job, where it's typically much more difficult to get fired/laid off)

      This is what I was responding to. I don't have a problem with states investing in FLOSS solutions; indeed, I think that's a good idea. But as /. is fond of pointing out, giving people money after they've done the work doesn't necessarily make them produce more works. (Cf. any copyright discussion.) And I think the attitude of "you can get away with something that you were ordered not to do, and that is possibly slightly illegal, because it's hard to fire you" is wrong.

    51. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I also work at Google but I'm not going to brag about it like a gigantic douchebag

      Anonymous for obvious reasons

    52. Re:You're doing it wrong. by newhoggy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As a public servant, your responsibility is to the taxpayers.

      Don't you meant to citizens, or to voters? If a public servant's responsibility is to tax payers, your voting power would have been proportional to the amount of tax you pay.

    53. Re:You're doing it wrong. by cl0s · · Score: 0, Troll

      I honestly had the same reaction as TooMuch... when I read:

      First, if your manager says don't put up a web page, then don't. End of discussion.

      Then I saw the username and realized that her training is just going well. You shall surely make a manly dike happy one day.

    54. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Karnje · · Score: 1

      This is good point this should be modded up. I see no problem is setting up a mirror. I don't think it's the best use of funds to support open source, but it does help.

    55. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Firehed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      On the contrary, I'd be happy to see my tax dollars used to support and improve software that I can then access and use for free. We all benefit both directly (better software) and indirectly (donors that we're funding able to accomplish their required tasks).

      For the requisite car analogy, think roads. My tax dollars being used to support FOSS is like improving most roads, whereas my tax dollars being used to support proprietary software is akin to improving toll roads. In both situations the roads are better, but in the latter case I have to pay to make use of the improvements.

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    56. Re:You're doing it wrong. by toadlife · · Score: 1

      What's to say operating those mirror servers isn't educational? I think it would be practical experience for students studying in systems related fields.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    57. Re:You're doing it wrong. by toadlife · · Score: 1

      Whoops. I was thinking of state sponsored schools. I don't know what I think about other government institutions running servers. At least it would provide some kind of general benefit to the economy in general.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    58. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Storchei · · Score: 1

      I agree with you. Donations are BY FAR cheaper than any contract with a corporation. Of course, support service has its price, one has to pay for the services received.
      Besides, those contracts between the State and corporations ALMOST ALWAYS lead to corruption, which in turn leads to more and more money spent on bureaucracy.
      This is, indeed, the biggest problem open source has: there is no fee for politicians, which means there is less possibility of corruption in between due to the lack of corporations willing to contribute in exchange of contracts.

      Nevertheless, I think open source software will continue its growth as these last years. I'm on favor of open source software and its way of doing business.

    59. Re:You're doing it wrong. by SteveFoerster · · Score: 1

      No kidding. I mean, a negative savings rate, even when times were good? It doesn't get much more shortsighted than that.

      --
      Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
    60. Re:You're doing it wrong. by QuantumRiff · · Score: 1

      Second... I don't want my tax dollars being used for a mirror server. Plenty of other people do that already, and even if they didn't, we have bittorrent.

      Um, one of the largest mirrors for Kernel.org, Firefox, Mozilla and drupal, among many others, is the Oregon State University Open Source Lab. Sure, they have some donations from google now, but its still in the basement of a public university...

      --

      What are we going to do tonight Brain?
    61. Re:You're doing it wrong. by ThrowAwaySociety · · Score: 1

      It's that direct stipulation that leads to short-sightedness, and ends up costing taxpayers billions in the long run.

      "Oh, well we don't need to shore up these levies in New Orleans. There's no immediate benefit when there hasn't been a major hurricane in years."

      "Oh, bridges can last a little while longer than designed. We'll just send someone by periodically to do a cursory check. That's a lot cheaper than replacing all those 1930s projects."

      "Who cares about preventative care. If you want that, get insurance and go to your doctor. Never mind that taxpayers will cover you when your problem gets worse and you go to the emergency room uninsured."

      "Regulation is an inefficient burden on commerce. It's hard to show a direct benefit when you back during a boom and ignore any lessons more than three years old. Just let it all go, and the publicly-chartered companies will police themselves!"

      I think we have very different opinions on "efficient". I believe that long-term and indirect benefits can be significantly more efficient than short-term nearsightedness, and the government if anyone should be able to look at the long term. In this case, for example, he should find a way to fund the projects he uses (such as buying support licenses), because in the long term it will keep the projects active and improving, and save significant cost versus a system redesign due to an EOL/abandoned software product.

      I'm struggling to imagine how failing to contribute to a FOSS project is in any way equivalent to failing to maintain vital public safety infrastructure.

      I'm forced to conclude you're making a straw man argument

    62. Re:You're doing it wrong. by clarkkent09 · · Score: 1

      Typical knee-jerk conservatism by someone who doesn't understand conservatism (or basic finance). There's nothing wrong with making an investment in resources, which is what he's trying to do.

      It's not the government's business to "invest" in particular companies, regardless of whether or not it uses their products. The government has responsibility to those citizens who happens to be employees and shareholders of the competitors of that company whose jobs and incomes are in jeopardy because "their" government is supporting their competitor. Choosing products on an open tender based on best price, quality etc is ok. "Investing" public money in a specific company in anticipation of it, rather than it's competitors, providing the best products sometimes in the future is completely wrong and it should be illegal if it isn't already.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    63. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spoken like a true military man.

    64. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't. And I'm far more successful than you are, guaranteed. You crave validation so badly that you seek it even over the Internet.. worse.. over Slashdot.

    65. Re:You're doing it wrong. by squidfood · · Score: 1

      working in R&D for the federal government... open source ELMER finite element code

      Oh, excellent! As another fed in R&D, I was just starting to look for something like ELMER for a new project this week. (For those against "durn gummit wasting mah tax dollars" the above post just saved at least a couple hours of taxpayer-paid salary). thx!

      And yeah, if a bit of Octave bugfixing saved us from buying another Matlab license, that's well-spend time and cost-effective.

    66. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a government job. That means he's spending other people's money

      All jobs involve spending other people's money, unless you're self employed.

    67. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Squalish · · Score: 1

      This is the most relevant comment I've seen.

      Add bounties for features & bugs that your organization needs, or alternately if you'd like to improve the product just increase existing bounties you find by a set %.

      --
      People in Soviet Russia, however, appear to be afflicted with amusing juxtapositions of the aforementioned situation
    68. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bridge? Highway? Investment???

      Modern "conservatives" don't believe in "investing" in those because they aren't owned by private corporations.

      Put a corporate name on a bridge and modern "conservatives" will make sure it's the best in the world through corporate welfare. But let the state name it after some honored veteran (or unfortunately increasingly common, as a memorial to ALL veterans) and it's that evil ol' socialism trying to take over again.

      Modern "conservatives" not only don't believe in contributing a fair share to the society whose structure facilitates their creation and guardianship of their personal wealth, they actively glorify the putrification of the commons.

    69. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Libertarian, the world is not black and white and it never will be. If $GOVERNMENT_AGENCY found a FLOSS solution was best (where "best" is decided by a cost-benefit analysis, taking into account TCO), what then? Should they take the FLOSS solution and run with it? What happens if they need support, or worse, discover the project is going under? Should they spend a little money (a stitch in time) or wait for it to go under and have to pay ludicrous retooling fees (nine stitches) because "it's completely wrong"? If you agree with the stitch-in-time approach, then you should invest in a pair of glasses or adult literacy classes, because you clearly have problems reading what the grandparent wrote. If you think they should just let it go under and pay for retooling on some kind of moral principle, then you are an extremist and arguing with you further would be a waste of time.

    70. Re:You're doing it wrong. by clarkkent09 · · Score: 1

      Your argument is ridiculous. So in your example, a government agency picks an open source solution and THEN worry about the lack of support and the possibility of the project going under? They should take those things into account BEFORE choosing the open source solution, and maybe go with a commercial one instead or with whichever other one meets the requirements of providing reliable support and not being likely to go under any time soon. Those are just requirements to be considered ahead of time, along with price, features and everything else. So lets say the $GOVERNMENT_AGENCY screws up and chooses a product that some time later they realize is inadequate in the ways you mention? Yes, they should let it go under and start over, and try to make a better choice next time.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    71. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree entirely. Challenging them isn't the same as undermining or going around them. You surely can't get fired for disagreeing with a boss. Especially not if you bring a relevant argument. It's their call but you have every right to argue strongly for what you think is right. If they still go another way so what. They shouldn't be offended and neither should you. Unfortunately people are people and it seems like it gets hard to disagree with someone without them taking it personally all too often.

    72. Re:You're doing it wrong. by orasio · · Score: 1

      Well, I don't know about the US, but my country has laws about transparency that say you should say what you do with taxpayers money.
      Government organizations need to have a website where they publish that kind of info. It's easy to make the case that you are supposed to tell the public what software you are using, so they have an idea of how you invest your resources.

    73. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and you get your validation by criticising people anonymously on the internet. and so do i.

    74. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You have to recognize the limitations of your job function and work within them" ...and right there is the deep foundation for a life of failure. You don't have to recognise the limitations of anything if you can find a way around them. You don't spend your time giving motivational speeches do you.

    75. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Giloo · · Score: 1
      I totally agree with your point of view. I think that there are many reasons our administrations should require opensource for their projects:
      • there is a real public audit of the software, should it still be developped by a selected corporation
      • money is not lost for private parties, as in, they are many things that could benefit other people, companies.. If it's the taxpayers' money, what can be more transparent to give it back this way to them?
      • it lowers the risk of lock-ins for the administrations, that usually end by costing a lot more when you need to buy again a new solution 3 years later..

      I think there is a lot to write & tell about how the many general reasons to endorse opensource could be adapted to the government / administration specifics, in terms of local economy growth, global service & quality improvement of software, ability to share more easily the load between cities/states/whatever and so on..

    76. Re:You're doing it wrong. by zotz · · Score: 1

      Since the US believes in "no taxation without representation" then all taxpayers must by definition be eligible voters if not actual voters. Since only citizens can vote, then it follows that all taxpayers are citizens and there is nothing to argue about.

      ~;-) the eyes tell the story...

      --
      FreeMusicPush If you want to see more Free Music made, listen to Free
    77. Re:You're doing it wrong. by cenc · · Score: 1

      Yea, I would second the documentation. That is one thing that is really really is lacking in Open Source, and is something that any government organization should be able to release to the public without any copyright issues (secret stuff aside).

      There really needs to be a drive to get all the new convert users to open source that are none IT people helping to write the documentation. There is so much good software, that does just really amazing things, but lacks full and updated documentation. Even if a project has good documentation, they almost always lack an updated translation of one language or another.

    78. Re:You're doing it wrong. by mqduck · · Score: 1

      This is basic small-'r' republicanism that has been foolishly and disingenuously demonized by big-'R' Republicans

      What does this debate have to do with a system of representative democracy with an elected head of state?

      --
      Property is theft.
    79. Re:You're doing it wrong. by uniquename72 · · Score: 1

      It's not the government's business to "invest" in particular companies, regardless of whether or not it uses their products.

      False. The government already invests in a company simply by choosing that company's products.

      When a government agency chooses MS Office, they've chosen to make a long-term investment in Microsoft, both in training and infrastructure, and in the purchase of the product itself. You may not think of this as an investment, but at the point of product adoption, the government has a financial interest in the continued viability of Microsoft. The same is true for choosing OpenOffice -- an big investment is already made simply by choosing to adopt it, so helping to ensure that OO continues as a viable product is in the government's best financial interest.

    80. Re:You're doing it wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A decade? Sounds like merely 10 years. Or someone possibly under 30 years old. Not exactly the fountain of wisdom, so I might suggest you make too big a deal of such inexperience.

    81. Re:You're doing it wrong. by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Again, mods on crack. You can disagree with me; I often throw out bombs here on /. But troll? Please, if anything I said in this thread is a troll, it's the one before this one.

    82. Re:You're doing it wrong. by mxh83 · · Score: 1

      Yes. A thousand times yes. That's how you earn respect and get noticed.

    83. Re:You're doing it wrong. by mxh83 · · Score: 1

      This is pretty minor -- his job is IT and while his aims are noble he hasn't been asked to represent his employer. That's somebody else's job. You have to recognize the limitations of your job function and work within them -- that's not putting your head down, that's being a professional and doing your job.

      Fortunately, few people think differently. My job is not IT support, graphics, or the office air conditioning. But I get myself involved with all those guys. And the right people noticed.

    84. Re:You're doing it wrong. by jthill · · Score: 1

      It's not the government's business to "invest" in particular companies, regardless of whether or not it uses their products

      The first-named power of Congress is to collect money and with it provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States.

      Anyone can disagree with the assessment of Congress as to how to spend it and how much to collect, but not with their authority and responsibility to do it at all.

      --
      As always, all IMO. Insert "I think" everywhere grammatically possible.
    85. Re:You're doing it wrong. by SydShamino · · Score: 1

      I replied to a blanket claim that the government could and should only take action where there was direct (i.e. immediate and measurable) benefit to the public. I strongly disagree with that claim, and used a wide swath of examples to show how that claim is utterly wrong.

      The OP didn't limit his claim to FOSS, and I didn't either.

      I'm forced to conclude you didn't read the whole thread.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    86. Re:You're doing it wrong. by MooseTick · · Score: 1

      "On the contrary, I'd be happy to see my tax dollars used to support and improve software that I can then access and use for free."

      Bad mindset from the start. If your tax dollars are paying for it, then its not free. You are just pre-paying for software you MAY use some day.

  3. Get others in Gov to use it by Faizdog · · Score: 5, Informative

    The knowledge that government agencies are using open source tools probably does a lot to legitimize such software. Even if you can't publicize it, you can probably let other government agencies/depts know what you use and how it helps you and how it helps with your budget (crucially important to every government entity) and encourage them to adopt similar practices; hell help them out with doing so and making the transition.

    Eventually, the word will get out through suppliers, vendors, potential news articles, etc and will do more to help the movement than small monetary donations. Whaddya mean that program x is unreliable, the fire dept/tax agency/welfare dept, etc uses it?

    --
    -"Those who fought today will die tommorow."-
    1. Re:Get others in Gov to use it by larry+bagina · · Score: 1

      that's not necessarily proof that it's reliable.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    2. Re:Get others in Gov to use it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I have worked in and around government agencies most of my IT career, mainly as a IT security based consultant/developer or IT Infrastructre. I can not think of a single GOVERNMENT agency that would be considered by the rest of the community or even for that matter other agencies as a good example of how to run IT, even the ones using Open Source software. If you honestly believe when it comes to IT that government entities and Agencies are significantly interested in how some utility affects there costs then I have a bridge to sell you too.

      The reality of Government IT is they usually have a budget, they want to spend ALL of that budget otherwise it gets reduced the following year, there are agencies that buy packaged software that will sit on shelves never opened just so they can be sure to spend enough of there budget not to have it reduced the following year.

    3. Re:Get others in Gov to use it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      perhaps he could go around letting project know that they use their software and thanking them. He may not be allowed to put up a webpage saying "we use X", but telling the people at X that they do so that they can say "Y uses our software" is the other side of the coin, and may be worth asking about.

    4. Re:Get others in Gov to use it by djKing · · Score: 1

      Parent is on the right track. Could you form a Gov FOSS User Group?

      --
      Free as in "the Truth shall set you..."
    5. Re:Get others in Gov to use it by Razalhague · · Score: 1

      It's proof that it's reliable enough for their use.

    6. Re:Get others in Gov to use it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speak at industry/government events on open source in government. Write articles.

      Good for open source, good for your career.

    7. Re:Get others in Gov to use it by Dan+Ost · · Score: 1

      there are agencies that buy packaged software that will sit on shelves never opened just so they can be sure to spend enough of there budget not to have it reduced the following year.

      How is that different from fraud?

      Isn't misuse of public funds a criminal act?

      --

      *sigh* back to work...
    8. Re:Get others in Gov to use it by rtobyr · · Score: 1

      We do actually do that. There is a listserv for IT staff throughout the state in this branch of government. I constantly talk about what we're doing with Open Source on that mailing list, especially when another netadmin writes that he's thinking of purchasing a commercial product where there are open source alternatives.

  4. eliminate the need for a monetary system... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it's as clear as daylight.

  5. Write documentation or contribute art by FauxPasIII · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Many FOSS projects need lots of help on the documentation and art assets.

    --
    25% Funny, 25% Insightful, 25% Informative, 25% Troll
    1. Re:Write documentation or contribute art by multisync · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is what I came here to post. Since you've already done that, I'll add that the submitter can also participate in forums or wikis devoted to FOSS software he uses; beta test new releases; attend LUG or other user group meetings; help spread the word to other potential users of FOSS and teach his kids/nieces & nephews/whatever young people he may encounter in life that there are alternatives to proprietary software.

      --
      I don't care why you're posting AC
    2. Re:Write documentation or contribute art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Excellent suggestions! When I ran a LUG, I often had trouble finding competent new people willing to give a talk & demo about how they use OpenSource to the group.

    3. Re:Write documentation or contribute art by icebraining · · Score: 1

      I think the objective was try to make the real beneficiary of open source applications in this case - the government agency - contribute. I'm pretty sure he must know how to contribute himself to the open source programs he uses at home, if any.

    4. Re:Write documentation or contribute art by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Many FOSS projects need lots of help on the documentation and art assets.

      Here's a shout out to developers: If you want help with documentation, you're going to have to answer questions. I would like to write documentation, but often I can't figure out how to get software to work, and the developer is unresponsive. If you want someone to write your docs, you WILL have to explain to them how the software works.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Write documentation or contribute art by PastaLover · · Score: 1

      I think the objective was try to make the real beneficiary of open source applications in this case - the government agency - contribute. I'm pretty sure he must know how to contribute himself to the open source programs he uses at home, if any.

      Do it during work hours then (after clearing it with your boss). Problem solved. :-)

  6. Donate by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For many projects out there $100 would be a lot of money. In many cases project web pages have "Donate" links which work through paypal. So I suggest you list a few OSS products you use. Take a couple of hundred dollars out of petty cash (call it software licensing) and donate it to those projects.

    1. Re:Donate by oasisbob · · Score: 1

      For many projects out there $100 would be a lot of money. In many cases project web pages have "Donate" links which work through paypal. So I suggest you list a few OSS products you use. Take a couple of hundred dollars out of petty cash (call it software licensing) and donate it to those projects.

      The OP can't do this. If you think state governments in the US have anything close to petty cash funds, you're probably mistaken. They're too ripe for abuse.

    2. Re:Donate by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      For many projects out there $100 would be a lot of money. In many cases project web pages have "Donate" links which work through paypal. So I suggest you list a few OSS products you use. Take a couple of hundred dollars out of petty cash (call it software licensing) and donate it to those projects.

      The OP can't do this. If you think state governments in the US have anything close to petty cash funds, you're probably mistaken. They're too ripe for abuse.

      How do they buy pencils and books?

    3. Re:Donate by Vintermann · · Score: 1

      > They're too ripe for abuse.

      Ripe for abusive political accusations, at least. If the typical shareholder was as old-testament jealous as politicians wanting to appear "tough on government waste", then CEO live expectancy would be measured in weeks.

      --
      xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
    4. Re:Donate by dave562 · · Score: 4, Informative

      They buy pencils and books with a purchase order from an approved vendor. My girl friend works for the state of California. I was talking to her about dealing with invoices the other night. She looked at me like I was crazy. She never deals with invoices because she is only allowed to buy things approved ahead of time and has to go through a long and involved process to do it. Buying anything at the state level (in California) is an exercise in frustration and patience. They can't even buy electronic devices that aren't on the approved list without having the local fire official sign off on them. If they want a microwave they can't just go down to Target and buy one. They have to solicit bids from three approved vendors and MUST go with the lowest price for the item.

    5. Re:Donate by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      You have a department that forms a comittee that discusses the various ways those supplies could be bought, then they send out at the very least 10 requests for offers, they get about 5 in return which again needs to be discussed for feasibility and long term cost of deployment. The whole deal is noted down painstakingly in a report no less than 50 pages for approval by the higher ups. They, in turn, get to meet and find a consensus to approve the purchase of a pack of pencils.

      All of course in the name of avoiding a waste of taxpayer money.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:Donate by colesw · · Score: 1

      If its anything like Canada, they will have a list of sellers that they are allowed to buy pencils and books from. These people bid for that, and you as a employee will have to ask a purchaser for your department to acquire said goods.

      In Canada nothing is paid for with paper money, its all credit, checks (and slow phasing out a kind of money order).

    7. Re:Donate by EndlessNameless · · Score: 1

      A purchase order is put in for office supplies. Most places that deal with corporations or the USG accept POs. The accounting/finance department tracks all POs and monitors for legitimacy and patterns of abuse.

      To clarify, as I assume you're unfamiliar with them:

      Purchase orders are legally-binding documents, and as such they are often accepted in lieu of immediate cash payment. Merchants will often require certain paperwork on file before accepting POs from a company; failure to issue payment would result in a fairly simple court case---the purchase order is essentially a contract on the part of the buyer.

      --

      ---
      According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
    8. Re:Donate by jmnugent · · Score: 1

      My previous job was in a K-12, and my current job is in a municipal city gov.... in both cases, I use my own money to buy the small things I need (office supplies, paper towels, Flash Drives, etc). The main reason is because if I buy it myself, I get exactly what I want, and I get it as soon as I need it. If I use the "official" process of using my purchase card or writing a Purchase Order.. it could takes weeks and multiple copies of paperwork to approve something simple. I (and more importantly the people I provide support to) don't have time for inefficient bureaucratic processes.

    9. Re:Donate by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      No don't. Odds are that is also illegal.
      1. Pay for support.
      2. When you pay for custom software make it FOSS.
      3. Pay to have features added to FOSS that you may need.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    10. Re:Donate by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Nah we had them when I worked for the state government here in Victoria, Australia. Petty cash may have been limited to 100 AUD or so. Normal purchase orders went to 50KAUD. Above that you had to go to competitive tender. All purchases had to be signed off by our manager but he was right there and understood the work.

      But because we did a lot of tech stuff we had a lot of small purchases on the go. We fabricated our own cables to a point, and sent bigger jobs off to a small company who did that as their business.

      There would have been a way (for us) but partly that was our management understood the biz. If management were non-technical it would have been harder.

    11. Re:Donate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      This whole process varies by agency. In the CA agency I work in (about 200 employees) I can buy from just about any vendor as long as they provide competitive pricing under the WSCA contract. It is suggested to solicit bids from three approved (WSCA certified) vendors, but a lot of the time they provide very similar pricing, at least in my experience with IT equipment. If prices are similar enough, at that point it is up to the agency who they will purchase from. You can provide justification as to why you are purchasing from a specific vendor (good customer service, quick shipping, etc.) even if they don't provide the lowest price. You don't necessarily ALWAYS have to go with the cheapest vendor.

      It isn't really possible to make a spontaneous purchase (such as running up to Target), but in my agency there are a few people with Cal Cards, which are state credit cards with low limits (in my experience it varies from $1000-5000). All it takes is to fill out a purchase request (with a justified reason of course), wait for it to be approved (can be few hours to few days for me) and running up to Target or wherever to buy your microwave.

      I think some agencies have all of their procurement done by DGS, which is insane because it is such a long and arduous process, and the agency has no control over the purchase once the request has been made with DGS.

    12. Re:Donate by iamwahoo2 · · Score: 1

      Usually they have some form of debit or credit card and you normally want to get permission for the purchase prior to making it. Also, most government orgs have some form of reimbursement request process if you are brave enough to use your own money.

    13. Re:Donate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but really none of that is *required* it's just the method within the bureaucracy that they understand. There is almost always another method of acquiring goods (vendors on state approved lists, products on state buy lists etc, all have shorter methods of acquisition.) On top of which, especially in IT, those "approved" lists are utter rubbish. Having actually worked in state IT I must say there is bureaucratic overhead but not to the degree shown here.

      If it's any measure of the government autocracy that is State gov't, newer things (Software, Hardware, etc.) it's easy as hell. Now if you want to replace the curriculum with a modern textbook that's where there's 8 miles of paperwork and 8 man years of committee meetings (per year.) This is mainly due to teachers unions adding unnecessary overhead to ensure they have "control" over the material used to instruct teachers.

      This is all to perpetuate the big lie that teachers have anything to do with the curriculum choices. In reality the state determines what bullet points MUST be taught, teachers choose out of a series of books that have all those bullet points (must have them all, can't miss any) and then they whittle the list down to those they can afford (typically 1 or 2) then pick the cheaper of those so they have room in the budget for "other things." The budget surplus is spent at the end of the year to buy replacement books and "other things" are never bought.

      Notice, in the above process never does anyone *READ* the material they are purchasing.

      Richard Feynman described the process in his autobiography (circa 1970's.) As of 3 years ago it has not changed.

    14. Re:Donate by palpatine · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I find it amazing how bureaucracy has reached such levels that the costs of employing the bureaucratic machine are much, much higher than the costs of corruption that it's supposed to prevent.

    15. Re:Donate by squidfood · · Score: 3, Informative
      Lest some of these myths perpetuate, at the federal agency I work for, supervisors have an annual budget (say $10K over the year for supplies) and can indeed walk right down to the local Target or Office Depot for individual purchases up to $3,000 as long as it balances monthly. The limitation is that you have to take a training/ethics course to be authorized to make the purchases with a government credit card, but that's sensible. Above $3K, yes there's a bidding process.

      So while it may vary from agency to agency, the myth of "no petty purchases" in in fact a myth.

    16. Re:Donate by PCM2 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I find it amazing how bureaucracy has reached such levels that the costs of employing the bureaucratic machine are much, much higher than the costs of corruption that it's supposed to prevent.

      Then it seems to me you picked an odd choice of userid.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    17. Re:Donate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps they shouldn't be buying crap now anyhow. CA is going bankrupt.

    18. Re:Donate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many times the price of the most expensive microwave oven will acquiring the cheapest one then end up costing? I mean, employee time spent on such a process must end up being worth a shitload of money compared to the price of the oven...

    19. Re:Donate by dave562 · · Score: 1

      It is an interesting conundrum. The "tax payers" are so worried about what is happening with their money that they lean on their legislators to pass all sorts of onerous legislation that costs an arm and an leg to comply with, and also wastes innordinant amounts of time. Those same people then complain about how inefficient government is and how it takes forever to get anything done.

      Theft is part of the human condition. Wall Street ripped off the entire country. Enron ripped off a whole bunch of people. Theft and corruption seem to be unavoidable these days.

      There is another self perpetuating cycle at work. The legislation and structure of the state creates an environment that implicitly says that workers aren't to be trusted, and that workers are stupid (take the example of not being able to plug in an electronic device for example). What you end up with are the lowest common denominator for employees. You end up with people who are used to not being trusted, and who are used to only doing what their policy or procedure says that they are allowed to do.

      To use my girl friend as an example again. A couple of weeks ago they had a disaster drill that was supposed to test out how everyone at the facility was able to use a new online reporting system. From the way she described it, it's a basic system not unlike /. here. Create a post, give it a title, attach a file and upload the file to a particular directory. Simple stuff. Out of the entire facility of ~250 employees, my girl friend was the only person who did the right thing. Director level people didn't do it. Manager level people in similar programs didn't do it right. People in her position around the facility didn't do it right. Nobody got it right.

      Is my girl friend going to stick around at the state? Hell no. She's working on her accounting degree and is going to bail ASAP. It's a shame because she's really good at what she does, but the pay is terrible and all of the benefits of being a state employee (numerous days off, good retirement, etc.) are vanishing / have vanished.

    20. Re:Donate by joshki · · Score: 1

      As an authorizing official at my last command, there's a bit more to your purchases than just going to your local Target or Office Depot. Those purchases are supposed to be vetted in advance by your AO, then verified and signed off afterwards, then audited monthly with your supply officer or equivalent. It's really not equivalent to a petty cash setup.

      --
      I do not read or respond to AC's. If you want a discussion, log in. Otherwise, don't waste your time.
  7. Pay for support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And if you can't do that, just leave the OS and webserver (but not specific version) info enabled in Apache so at least netcraft knows what you're running.

    Or ask a state rep or governor to praise the money savings thanks to free and open source software use in your department on the record and try to get their remark printed in a blurb in the local paper or online.

  8. A Dichotomous Question? by eldavojohn · · Score: 5, Informative

    How Can I Contribute To Open Source?

    This question seems to be distinctly different from your paragraph. Your $10 here and there is something I've also done many times. And it's great to hear that I'm not alone. From buying Firefox swag to just realizing that FOSS Product A saved me (at least) three days of my time so the least I can do is paypal $20 to those in charge.

    So if you'd like to contribute in other ways, pick a project that has something that you know a lot about or are passionate about and try to make small improvements submitted as patches. Good with embedded C? Try to help out the Firefox team in squeezing out cycles. Good with computer vision algorithms? Hit up OpenCV or even write some more script/extensions for the Gimp. What's your passion? The most important thing to remember is to not get discouraged when your patch gets rejected or deferred or sent back. Ask for feedback from the team and keep in mind you're there to support them. Firefox might be too closely knit of a project for you to break into but just perusing sourceforge or github will open up your eyes to who's out there looking for your help. A lot of these projects have wish lists.

    But what I'm hearing from you is that you'd like to give FOSS more recognition than contributions. No one wants your management or tax payer to feel obligated to fund open source. That flies directly in the face of what open source wants to do for you.

    I had the idea to put up a Web page stating that we 'use the following free software to save tax dollars,' as a way to help spread the word about open source software, but management calls this an 'endorsement.'

    Above all, respect your management. Were I in your place, I'd take a page from the DoD and on your page post side by side both the open source products you use and the proprietary products you use with a brief explanation. Get your management to approve this (pending security concerns) and whenever a change is made or an addition of open source product is used, put it up. I think you'll find that your page--if not from the get go--will slowly start to paint a common picture: the coexistence of open source products and proprietary products not only working side by side but also supporting each other.

    I would not recommend trying to make a business case out of government funded changes to open source products unless you have someone high up in your pocket and on your side. Doing something like that could really make you look foolish if you have no clout to begin with and could injure your reputability. Just a thought, you're free to proceed as you see fit.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:A Dichotomous Question? by backwardMechanic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So if you'd like to contribute in other ways, pick a project that has something that you know a lot about or are passionate about and try to make small improvements submitted as patches. Good with embedded C? Try to help out the Firefox team in squeezing out cycles. Good with computer vision algorithms? Hit up OpenCV or even write some more script/extensions for the Gimp. What's your passion? The most important thing to remember is to not get discouraged when your patch gets rejected or deferred or sent back. Ask for feedback from the team and keep in mind you're there to support them. Firefox might be too closely knit of a project for you to break into but just perusing sourceforge or github will open up your eyes to who's out there looking for your help. A lot of these projects have wish lists.

      Why is it so hard to understand that there are people out there who don't have hot coding skills (and no time or inclination to gain them), who think FLOSS is good, use FLOSS tools, and want to contribute? Go and read the original question again. Now explain how the above paragraph is helpful. How do you read I'm certainly not a talented enough programmer to help with development and manage to suggest Good with embedded C? Try to help out the Firefox team in squeezing out cycles. Oh, the smart, welcoming world of open source. I'm glad you helped.

    2. Re:A Dichotomous Question? by rdnetto · · Score: 1

      This is slashdot. Given the absence of an article, the parent probably felt incapable of RTFS.

      --
      Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
  9. Testing and documentation (and translation) by catman · · Score: 1

    If your agency can spend the time, testing/bug reporting and writing/improving/proofreading documentation is always welcome. If there are any people in your organization who are fluent in other languages, have them participate in the translations.

  10. "Contributing" is impossible by Teppy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Government operates by forcibly taking money from one person and giving it to another person or organization. So you can't "contribute" to open source any more than I can contribute my neighbor's car to a needy family. That said, by using open source you're doing a noble thing: you're preventing that much taking-and-redistributing that would otherwise occur. So I agree with your boss - don't endorse, don't "contribute", but definitely use, thereby reducing the burden of government for everyone. And, quietly spread the word to other government employees - it's rare to see such conscious actions by those in government.

    1. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by Vintermann · · Score: 1

      wohoo, I was waiting for this post!

      --
      xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
    2. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by MozeeToby · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Not that I'm saying he should do this, especially if his boss has already told him not to, but it isn't taking his neighbors car and letting someone else have it. If approved it would be a government agency using your tax dollars and putting them to use to support the purposes of that government agency. This whole taxes equal theft thing has just gotta stop. Yes, taxes can go too far, lord knows I pay enough of them. If the agency he works for thinks that the best way to fulfil their objectives is with a donation to open source projects, that isn't theft, it's government.

    3. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by dermond · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Government operates by forcibly taking money from one person and giving it to another person or organization

      where of course you assume that the person who had the money in the first place really deserved to have it. but a lot of persons today earn money without doing any useful work (e.g. they work for advertisment - creating artificial needs) or by doing harmful work (creating weapons, destroying the environment, etc...) or doing no work at all (just cashing in on their portfolio). the reason why some can earn a lot of money for nothing is in our system of society. this is an artificial system of laws and rules and it allows some to take the money from other persons without giving them anything useful in return.

      so taking the money from people that have that money because of some artificial rules by an other rule (the tax system) is just one way to try to compensate the many faults of the capitalist system.....

      mond

    4. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      So move somewhere with no taxes (or no tax collection success). A hut in remote Somalia for example.

      Of course I'm not sure how you are going to stop a hundred just as well armed as you men from taking all your stuff what with no government stealing from you to provide law and order.

    5. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by jabbathewocket · · Score: 1

      Angry much? Fact of the matter is that you need a civics lesson on how and more importantly why government operates ... Don't blame the idea, blame the implementation.. if your unhappy with government, put your butt to work, run for office, fix from within, and most importantly VOTE dont just bitch on the internet about how government is evil and steals your money to give it away to someone else. The problem with government, is the people both in power, and the folks who put them there AND KEEP THEM THERE.. NOT the ideas/goals that put them in power.

    6. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      In addition to your very useful rebuttal, there should also be the very obvious point that the OP is probably contributing to his government department operating more efficiently, thus reducing the government's need to forcibly take money. This is an improvement, yes?

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    7. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by Kalriath · · Score: 1

      Good luck avoiding roads and footpaths. And don't you dare ever turn up to a hospital without insurance, or call the police or fire department. After all, those aren't things government should be doing, should it?

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    8. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by BobMcD · · Score: 1

      I wonder what universal truth you can use to make these judgements, where everyone would automatically agree?

      but a lot of persons today earn money without doing any useful work (e.g. they work for advertisment - creating artificial needs)

      If I ever invent something interesting, I hope someone with better skills than I have can get people to understand what it is, and to buy it. I hope they get paid for their trouble.

      or by doing harmful work (creating weapons, destroying the environment, etc...)

      Next time one of our soldiers pulls the trigger on his or her rifle, I hope the round fires. I hope that weapon was made with care and pride, and I hope the people who made it got paid to do so. Likewise, I hope the folks burning all that coal at my local power plant also receive a paycheck this week.

      or doing no work at all (just cashing in on their portfolio).

      When my invention makes me rich, I hope my children inherit what I don't get around to using. I hope people like you don't get to decide what's better done with the money I earned.

    9. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by nacturation · · Score: 1

      I agree with the concept you are advocating... that any use of tax dollars not designed to reduce the burden of taxes should be eliminated. However, others have suggested ways to contribute which do further that goal: namely, writing documentation for other departments/branches of government on how they can use OSS to reduce their reliance on tax dollars. In that case, spending tax dollars (aka: paid time) to write the documentation results in a net savings.

      Additionally, if there's some OSS which can't be used because it's lacking functionality necessary for the government (some kind of standards support, auditing features, whatever), then spending tax dollars (aka: paid time) to write this would also result in a net benefit, and the more departments/branches of government that would benefit, the greater the multiplier effect. If someone were able to spend a week coding up a patch to add necessary features for the IRS (theoretical example here) and it would save $50 in licensing costs for every IRS agent, that's money well spent.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    10. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there was a fascinating story on the BBC last week (waiting for someone else to provide the link) about the value that people put into society compared ot how much they're paid. Hospital cleaners put in £12 for every £1 paid, tax lawyers take out £47. Tasty, huh?

      Though, I would disagree that creating weapons is necessarily harmful. Having powerful weapons scares other people off into not starting wars (viz. strong countries do not get attacked), wars are bad for everyone, ergo sufficient weapons to deter wars are good.

    11. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      go have some fun living in somolia

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    12. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, you do realize that no personal property whatsoever can exist in the system to you seem to prefer? I can't ever really own something, because the minute I use it to generate income you say that I'm getting something for nothing, scamming the "system", ruining your mojo, etc. So you feel free to take some of the income I generated. Well, then surely the bit you left me is really mine now, right? Oh, no. If I use *that* bit to generate more income, say by loaning it to someone, you still say I'm getting something for nothing, scamming the "system", etc. etc. So you take some of my income from *that* endeavor. What you seem unable to accept is that if I earned the first bit of property - really earned it by the sweat of my brow doing work that you happen to acknowledge as useful and ethical, then I freaking own it. If I really own it then I can loan it to someone for money and no one has any right to a penny of the proceeds but me. To tax the proceeds of the loan is to tax more of the original property - to tax it again and again and again.

      Also, if you really disagree with some methods of earning money, then change the law so they are illegal or, if those already exist, catch the people doing them. Don't undermine the very concept of property as a shortcut to recovering "your fair share". You will - and I don't expect you to understand this - only end up undermining your ability to own "your fair share" in any meaningful sense of the word "own". You won't own it, you will merely be allowed it - hopefully! - by others like yourself.

    13. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People pay me for useful services I do for them, and I pay people for useful services they do for me. That ad guy is useful for someone, useful for society? Society doesn't want anything, it's an anthromorphic combination of everyone else's wants. You can make some measure of efficiency but if you really want that, you can start by getting rid of everyone that lives off benefits first. That should clear up a couple billion carbon footprints. Interest on a portfolio is not for doing nothing, it's a loan of money is much the same way as if I loaned you my car. The only person who doesn't see that is someone who think he's entitled to borrow my car for free.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    14. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

      This is an artificial system of laws and rules...

      Is that a bad thing? Pretty much any rule besides "survival of the fittest" could be called an "artificial" rule.

      ...and it allows some to take the money from other persons without giving them anything useful in return.

      In what way? Who, in your examples, didn't provide anything useful?

      • Ideally, the advertiser informs the customer about the existence of a potentially superior products, and so both company and consumer win.
      • The arms manufacturers convert raw materials and labor into a product, just like any company not in the service industry. It's not like demand for their product will ever go away.
      • The people with portfolios basically won a giant gamble. Someone risked a significant amount of money betting that a company would succeed (and in the case of start-ups, improved the chances of it happening). Those that lost went back to a cubicle, those that won now enjoy the rewards of the risk they took. Win big or often enough, and they can start making similar gambles without risking their shirt. It's about as unfair as visiting a casino without the "house" and without rules against card counting. If your opponents can count cards and you can't, don't expect to win very often.
    15. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by Score+Whore · · Score: 1

      You know, it's possible that a) someone pays taxes because it's not easily optional and b) they believe that the government provides services it shouldn't. Yet when the time comes they still use a service that they don't think the government should be providing, because the government has been preventing them from being self sufficient (via "excessive" taxation). And they've already paid for it, even thought they didn't necessarily want it.

      BTW - the government doesn't reimburse hospitals for treatment of the uninsured. They hospitals just pass it along to those who do pay.

    16. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Government operates by forcibly taking money from one person and giving it to another person or organization. So you can't "contribute" to open source any more than I can contribute my neighbor's car to a needy family.

      The difference between you and government is that government can do it, unlike you. That's why we have it in the first place.

    17. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by demonlapin · · Score: 0

      It is sometimes difficult to imagine that this many bad ideas can live in one person's head.

    18. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by blahplusplus · · Score: 1

      "Government operates by forcibly taking money from one person and giving it to another person or organization."

      You are taxed by consent, if you don't like it, then do what the earlier Americans did and revolt (no taxation without representation).

    19. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      And, quietly spread the word to other government employees - it's rare to see such conscious actions by those in government.

      This.

      Do brownbag lunches, write reports, do business case analysis. Create a Center of Excellence with you as the director and spread the good news. OK, that's probably Step 20, but you're on the right track.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    20. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by m6ack · · Score: 1

      LOL... Just who put you in charge of saying what is of utility or not in a society?

      In the Capitalist system utility is determined by the consumer -- merit and utility are determined in a distributed fashion. If the decision is centralized, then society is made inefficient... and those people that are of genuine merit will find a place in a another society where their work (or their hard-earned capital) is valued -- and where they can be justly compensated...

      You mention advertising as something "creating artificial needs" -- but... I think you have it upside down... Advertising is important to any society in the process of efficient dissemination and assimilation of new ideas. Advertisers serve to communicate the utility of an idea to the society, serve to differentiate an idea from competing ideas, and make the society more efficient both at determining the merit of an idea, and at assimilating the new idea. The person that can communicate, position an idea well against it's competitors and convince is highly valued and sought after. The reward for a successful new idea both to society and to the author of the idea can be substantial -- so too, the advertiser's worth.

      You mention creating weapons as harmful -- but the production of weapons is a vital benefit to society. A society must have the means of protecting its interests against challengers from outside and of checking those attempting to subvert it from within. If there are no arms in the possession of the society (or will to use them in conflict), the same is at the mercy of its neighbor and from the strongest deviant from within.

      So, I am definitely glad that the author of the previous post is not making my decisions for me about what is valuable to me. I am glad I live in a society where, for the most part, we are free to determine what is of utility to and for ourselves. I am equally glad that this society is equitable enough to pay me in accordance with my effort and value -- and that I can, for the most part, keep (and pass on to whom I chose) what I have earned. I'm also glad that I am free to participate in protecting both my family and my society by responsibly bearing arms.

    21. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by Infernal+Device · · Score: 1

      Explain that to the for-profit corporate lawyers who will eat them alive in court. All it takes is some small company getting their nose bent out of shape because they didn't get the contract to supply goods and/or services and that agency will suddenly be out several million dollars.

      It's not necessarily right, but that's how it is and until FOSS can buy their own politicians, that's how it's going to be.

      --
      "My God...it's full of trolls!"
    22. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by atomic777 · · Score: 1

      If you believe in such a merit-based system, why should your children get anything, especially if they're dolts?

    23. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by terjeber · · Score: 1

      just one way to try to compensate the many faults of the capitalist system

      Says the one who just proved that he has no understanding of "the capitalist system" at all. Sorry dude, you are wrong, and you appear to be of limited intellect. I have given you as much documentation on that as you have given on your moronic "without doing any useful work". It is sadly not too rare to read moronic idiocy like that statement. Our education system, world wide, is in serious trouble.

    24. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by icebraining · · Score: 1

      If the government shouldn't provide the service, they shouldn't use the programs either. If they do provide it, they should help the project.

      If you don't want to pay for the help they give to the project, stop the government from using the program. Saying the government should use it and not give back is just selfishness.

    25. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by icebraining · · Score: 1

      If you don't want them to contribute, they shouldn't use the program.

      If you want them to use the program, they should contribute.

      Wanting them to use it and not contribute isn't a libertarian move, it's just selfishness.

    26. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by EvolutionsPeak · · Score: 0

      You are so wrong that I think you might be a Troll, but I'll bite anyway.

      where of course you assume that the person who had the money in the first place really deserved to have it.

      Whether or not the person deserved the money, the government forcibly takes the money away. Whether or not the person deserved the money is up to the person who gave him the money, not to the government or you (thank god).

      but a lot of persons today earn money without doing any useful work (e.g. they work for advertisment - creating artificial needs)

      It's useful to the people paying them. Advertising can also inform people of solutions to their "real" needs. I'm not quite sure what an "artificial" need is.

      or by doing harmful work (creating weapons, destroying the environment, etc...) or doing no work at all (just cashing in on their portfolio).

      Weapons for self defense, no one runs a "destroy the environment" business, investing provides capital for people who produce things. These are terrible examples and are what make me think you're a troll.

      the reason why some can earn a lot of money for nothing is in our system of society. this is an artificial system of laws and rules and it allows some to take the money from other persons without giving them anything useful in return.

      Actually, the government is pretty much the only group that can force you to give them something without getting anything useful in return. You don't have to pay money to advertisers, weapon makers, or any other individual business unless you choose to.

      so taking the money from people that have that money because of some artificial rules by an other rule (the tax system) is just one way to try to compensate the many faults of the capitalist system.....

      You are implying that a fault of the capitalist system is that it is "artificial". That is silly. There are many faults of the capitalist (or at least the pure free market) system, but the fact that it is "artificial" is not one of them.

      mond

      Your name is attached to your post. You don't need to add it again.

    27. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If creating weapons is harmful work then using weapons must be more harmful work than that.

      Why should soldiers be paid? They just destroy things and cause harm. They take money without doing anything productive.

      The problem with trying to fix capitalism is that it's difficult to take all factors into account. You would need to have someone decide what projects were worth capital investment and how people should be informed of what is available. Or you could just let investors and advertisers do their job.

      I find it ludicrous that someone with no understanding of economics can so freely criticize "the capitalist system".

    28. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      Wanting them to use it and not contribute isn't a libertarian move, it's just selfishness.

      The brand of libertarianism espoused most often around here doesn't merit such a distinction.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    29. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is a myopic view of what government does. The government provides its citizen, an environment in which others can lend you money without fear, you can operate a business easily, enable transportation, communication, etc., most importantly enforces rules to make sure everyone plays to rules. Thus government enables you to earn every single penny that "you" make. All it is doing is to take a small share of this as return from you so that it can continue doing what it is doing for you. The taxes are the profit share that you give to your business partner who contributed so much to your business. So government has every right and responsibility to collect those taxes, and do whatever is needed to enable a better environment for future businesses and citizens. It is NOT stealing YOUR money.

    30. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think, and hope, that I am just missing out on Poe's Law here... if not then wow... how did anyone who said "You can make some measure of efficiency but if you really want that, you can start by getting rid of everyone that lives off benefits first. That should clear up a couple billion carbon footprints." get modded insightful?

    31. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess you don't want Defence, Police, Courts, Roads, Sewers ...

    32. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      You can make some measure of efficiency but if you really want that, you can start by getting rid of everyone that lives off benefits first.

      Are you proposing that we slaughter everyone over 70 years old? Or that losing one's job when you don't have sufficient savings should be a death sentence? I mean, I've come across social Darwinists in my day, but even they don't propose actively killing off those who are falling to the bottom of the heap.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    33. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by arethuza · · Score: 1

      Aren't you contradicting yourself there? First you question "who put you in charge of saying what is of utility or not in a society" then you state that "the production of weapons is a vital benefit to society"? While I agree that all societies and individuals should have the right to defend themselves, I suspect that most defence projects are motivated by pork barrel politics rather than the need to counter actual threats and as such are effectively socialistic endeavours which I am rather unhappy to support with my tax $CURRENCY_UNIT.

    34. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      And, of course, it gets the -1, Disagree (as Overrated) mod. You should be proud of yourself, Anonymous Modder. The Soviet Union needs you!

    35. Re:"Contributing" is impossible by m6ack · · Score: 1

      WRT to the "who put you in charge" question -- I apologize deeply, and did not mean to offend... I thought the truth so evident! Without the scales of history to defend me, I admit contradiction. So, I do not speak for myself. Any society that is so weak as to not defend itself with arms has been overrun by its aggressors -- be it Mayan, Roman, Chinese, Judaic, whatever -- no matter how "civilized."

      I agree with you that "${CURRENCY_UNIT}" is rather poorly spent no matter the government involved. Government is /always/ (did I make this statement exclusive enough?) the most inefficient means to produce a good or service. I have been in US Civil Service; so, I have first hand experience. Government entirely leaches off the private sector for any given innovation.

      And, I challenge you -- which pork (in accord with your experience) was involved in the most effective weapons of our day? -- Of the "Predator" drones, the B2, or the Raptor? Which of these was more the result of competition, or of pork? I am very interested in your first-hand opinion.

  11. Bug Reports by thePsychologist · · Score: 3, Informative

    Use it, submit bug reports, and participate on forums. When you can, push for more open-source to be used in your organisation.

    --
    "What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." Ralph Waldo Emerson
    1. Re:Bug Reports by danlip · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In particular, write really good bug reports. Spend the time to track down the simplest conditions to reproduce the bug, write the steps up clearly and precisely, and contribute example code or data. This is an enormous help to open source projects.

    2. Re:Bug Reports by xaxa · · Score: 1

      Use it, submit bug reports, and participate on forums.

      And do so with your .gov (or whatever) email address. It's very discreet, but I notice it, so I assume other people do.

      (Also, I tend to put more effort into mailing list posts from my work address rather than my personal address.)

    3. Re:Bug Reports by refactored · · Score: 1
      Submit Good Quality bug reports. Bug Reports are 10 a penny. Submit Good ones.
      • Be exact about versions of the software and related software (distro, kernel etc.)
      • Produce the smallest possible test case. NEVER say "it just happens when I do something with this 10000 line document I can't let your see."
      • Be responsive in answering queries in the issue tracker for that issue. Try out patches and workarounds suggested and give feedback.
      • Report the problem to the correct forum. Understand which is the correct forum. Understand the differences between distros, distro versions and original developer. Try work out if it's a packaging problem or a software problem.
      • Try the latest version from the original developer. If that fixes the problem, reports this in the distros issue tracker as well.
      • RTFM.
      • Report bugs in The Fine Manual, preferably along with a suggested rewording.
      • Test and Report bugs in Beta releases. Critical bugs reported then will get fixed before release. Bugs reported after release will probably only get fixed in the next release.
  12. Metrics by osopolar · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's all about metrics - just telling you boss is never the way to get things done. Write a report - with real numbers, kind of like a cost/benefit ratio analysis.

    --
    Never Compromise
  13. You problem is not that uncommon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Many companies try to dictate what their employees can do in their own time with blogs, web sites...
    Whether they are allowed to control you this way or not, the rule is always the same. Do whatever you want and don't get caught.

  14. Curious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That means we can't donate money, because it's a 'gift of public funds.'

    And yet no one seems to have a problem with the brib^H^H^H^H "gift of public funds" to purchase votes for crap legislation.

  15. Documentation and boxed CDs! by oasisbob · · Score: 4, Insightful

    At $JOB-- (public university), we had a pair of redundant firewalls running OpenBSD that saved us thousands, and made us very happy.

    It was easy to get approval to buy the OpenBSD CD sets with each release. It was only a few hundred dollars over the course of several years, cheap for us, and better-than-nothing for Theo et al.

    Check to see if the devs have any documentation (O'Reilly books, pay PDFs, etc) for sale. This is another good place to kick in a few bucks, documentation is a legitimate expense and worthwhile investment.

    What bothers me is that some companies (eg ZenOSS) make support SOOOO expensive when you jump from the open-source to commercial version. The price jump for a small business is insane, especially if they're fine without 24/7 support and the features they have already.

    1. Re:Documentation and boxed CDs! by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Yep by far the best way to contribute to OSS from inside an organisation is to pay for something tangible. Support or media.

    2. Re:Documentation and boxed CDs! by gbarules2999 · · Score: 1

      I fully agree. Maybe the author should tell us what software they are using in their organization so that we can give them some specific options in this vein.

  16. Participate in the projects that you use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't have to be a programmer to participate in projects. They need bug reports, they need feature ideas, they need people to help organize the roadmap and say what will make the next version the best version ever.

    A lot of open source projects could really use the input of real life users. The developers may not use the actual software as much as you do, so your opinions about what features are truly important and what are nice to have, can often be more important than the developer's opinions.

    So participate in the communities that produce the software you use. You'll help them make better software, and you'll get better software in return. If you need justification/rationale for your boss, you can point out that it's no different from corporate customers of Microsoft who participate in beta programs for software they use, or provide other feedback on advance copies. Open source is a perpetual advance copy of the next release, so you always have a chance to contribute that way, even if you don't code.

    --Julian

  17. Tweak your web page idea. by seeker_1us · · Score: 1

    Bosses don't like the "endorsement" aspect? Don't worry about it.

    Put up a web page saying what software you use, open source, closed source, all of it.. Don't say why you picked it.

    Put links to the open source projects.

    You don't give it "endorsement," but you do get the software recognized (hmm, they use a webserver named "Apache?")

    It's just freedom of information at that point.

  18. Endorsement or Truth? by RobertM1968 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Besides the good suggestions above, I am curious about this part:

    I had the idea to put up a Web page stating that we 'use the following free software to save tax dollars,' as a way to help spread the word about open source software, but management calls this an 'endorsement.'

    Technically, if it is true ("you" are selecting free/open source software to save tax dollars, and there is a statement someplace in the govt documents indicating that is part of the reason for the choices made) then endorsement or not, it's public information, and I do not see why stating it, if worded correctly (to properly indicate the reason such choices were made) would run afoul of anything.

    The government has in the past made statements on how it has or plans on saving money. The wording of such a statement though is probably key to ensuring it does not run afoul with any other rules and laws (also assuming that such a statement is both (a) true and (b) indicated in some public government document).

    But that's just my opinion - and regardless of whether it is correct, it still in no way guarantees you will keep your job after making such a statement on a govt or related site.

    1. Re:Endorsement or Truth? by dave562 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Technically, if it is true ("you" are selecting free/open source software to save tax dollars, and there is a statement someplace in the govt documents indicating that is part of the reason for the choices made) then endorsement or not, it's public information, and I do not see why stating it, if worded correctly (to properly indicate the reason such choices were made) would run afoul of anything.

      I'm willing to bet that there isn't anything in his job description about collecting and publishing information about the software that he uses. In fact he could even get in trouble for doing that instead of something else that he should probably be doing. It is kind of like the equivalent of any IT person in any other organization compiling a list of the software they use and publishing it. What is the purpose? How does creating the list help the organization?

    2. Re:Endorsement or Truth? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I was considering the same. Ain't one of the big things this administration allegedly rides on is open, accessable and transparent government? So it's not an endorsement. It's informing the public! Informing them of what their public servants use to fulfill their needs, informing them of how their tax money is spent (or rather, that it's not).

      You're not saying "we use X and it's great!", you just say "we use X". I cannot see the endorsement in this. It is information, nothing else. It's the transparent government that is so popular now.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Endorsement or Truth? by jmkaza · · Score: 1

      There's truth in the truth argument. As a gov't agency, you can't provide an endorsement of a commercial product, but you're required to provide transparency in what you do. The public has a right to know how their tax dollars are (or aren't) being spent, so an information page on the site should fly. I'd follow federal guidelines though, and make sure you don't use any logo images, keep it text based.

    4. Re:Endorsement or Truth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technically, if it is true ("you" are selecting free/open source software to save tax dollars, and there is a statement someplace in the govt documents indicating that is part of the reason for the choices made) then endorsement or not, it's public information, and I do not see why stating it, if worded correctly (to properly indicate the reason such choices were made) would run afoul of anything.

      It most definitely would run afoul, being public knowledge is one thing, advertising it on a site is considered endorsement and has all sorts of nasty political ramifications which is a major no no for just about any government. Governments are supposed to be completely vendor neutral and not a body that endorses ANY company or product. Personally I don't want my government using their funds to actively promote ANYONE, not even open source.

    5. Re:Endorsement or Truth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not saying "we use X and it's great!", you just say "we use X".

      No, he's trying to say "we use X to save you tons of money!" That is an endorsement. If they said they used store brand paper towels instead of some name brand product to save tax dollars, that would be an endorsement. You can't do that.

      What you can do is identify the products in a FAQ or "About" page if it's relevant to how the agency conducts its business, but even there it's questionable.

      An unsolicited statement like, "We buy Coca-Cola products" or "We use Firefox" is an endorsement regardless of its truth.

    6. Re:Endorsement or Truth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One thing I'd check with your security people before publishing any list of internal apps, there's a reason the investigate/gather info is the first and biggest step when doing any VAPT work.

      Giving that info out would help immensely with targetted attacks.

    7. Re:Endorsement or Truth? by xaxa · · Score: 1

      Some of the web applications at my government (ish -- we work "at arm's length" but are funded by the UK government) have little bits of information like "This site uses Tomcat, Apache, Java and MySQL". I doubt that could ever be a problem, it's not promotion any more than "the [stuff] was processed by a team of scientists from [university]".

    8. Re:Endorsement or Truth? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm willing to bet that there isn't anything in his job description about collecting and publishing information about the software that he uses.

      In fact, one of the most perverted things about governments (at least my state government: New Mexico), is that the employees are not allowed to release information to the public, even about totally mundane non-security-related things. It's an explicit policy: talking to the press is a fire-able offense. Only the "Ministry of Truth" is allowed to do that.

      (My girlfriend works for the government and I constantly hear informal, off-the-record stories about waste, corruption, and incompetence, and the people aren't allowed to know. Most frustratingly, I work for the press! All I can do is make sure that all candidates for governor in the next election, get asked whether or not they plan to change the talking-to-press-gets-your-fired policy. Make 'em say Yes (so if they don't follow through, we can call 'em out as liars later) or No (so they are taking a clear pro-corruption stand prior to the election).)

    9. Re:Endorsement or Truth? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      What you can do is identify the products in a FAQ or "About" page if it's relevant to how the agency conducts its business, but even there it's questionable.

      Knowing that my government uses Open Office and is thus able to read my OO documents is something I'd consider relevant. It would save me the trouble of converting everything to .doc before sending it.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  19. Pick a great project and sponsor work. by jk379 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Pick a project like bacula (best backup software made to date). Use it adopt it spread the word. After that you can support the project, they have a bunch of items on the to do list ( http://www.bacula.org/misc/Vote-2009.html ). If one of the items would help your work, sponsoring project would be a way to help open source software. -Jason

    1. Re:Pick a great project and sponsor work. by teeks99 · · Score: 1

      Even better would be to figure out some items that *you* need for your organization, then you could pay someone on the team to implement them for you. This way you're getting direct benefit for your money, and the project is getting a new feature that will doubtless be useful to others and the developers will get funding to spend time working on the code.

  20. inform the developers, put it in a fiscal reports by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    informing the software developers that your goverment agency is using their software is not an endorsement, its just a statement of fact
    you might have to state "this is not an endorsement" so they don't get confused,
    and then they can list it on their "companies that use our products" page,
    and its not an endorsement.

    since goverment agencies produce fiscal reports, if you estimate how much you saved on licenses or maintenance, and put that in the report, it becomes public record

    something like that

  21. Documentation? by UTF-8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First, ask the open source project where they need help. If all else fails, you could learn how to write documentation for the project. Helpful documentation is notoriously bad for projects that are too focused on the internals without an outside view.

  22. Just a few ideas by Statecraftsman · · Score: 1

    1. Don't call it open source. Realize that the freedom aspect is as important for you as for the transparency of your "the people"-serving agency.
    2. Always consider free software first when implementing a new feature or system. Use is contribution.
    3. Learn to program and encourage others in your organization to do the same. It's not all about talent and can improve performance in nearly any job.
    4. If you have written any scripts to help you use free software, release those under the (A)GPL.
    5. Write, clarify, test and improve documentation. It's another important task that doesn't get enough attention in free software.
    6. Submit bug reports and encourage others in your organization to do the same.

  23. Potential Employees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Do you have the software you use listed somewhere to aid job applicants or to steer people familiar with that software toward you?

  24. Some ideas by booch · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's not directly aimed at your particular situation, but I created a list of ways for non-programmers to contribute:

    • Submit bug reports
    • Suggest new features and options
    • Make other comments on how to improve the the quality of the program
    • Help write good documentation
    • Translate the documentation (and program text) into another language
    • Read exisiting documentation, follow the examples, and make corrections
    • Correct spelling and grammar mistakes in documentation
    • Develop spelling and grammar style conventions for documentors
    • Build a glossary of technical terms
    • Convert documentation into more useful formats (i.e. DocBook)
    • Create templates to write documentation in a WYSIWYG word processor (AbiWord, KWord) and XSLT to transform it into DocBook
    • Create diagrams, screen-shots, and graphics for documentation
    • Submit graphics (icons, backgrounds) to use in the program
    • Help other people learn how to use the program (answer questions on mailing lists or IRC channels)
    • Write an email expressing your appreciation for the programs you use
    • Send the programmers post cards
    • Send the programmers a virtual beer
    • Write your legislators about the concerns that Open Source programmers have with recent and upcoming legislation
    • Write book reviews and critiques
    • Write a book
    • Maintain a FAQ or HOWTO document
    • Help organize LUG events, including InstallFests, BugFests, and DocFests
    • Help write articles for the LUG newsletter
    • Help update the LUG web site
    • Help maintain a web site for an Open Source project
    • Design a better user interface for your favorite program (GLADE and Qt Designer are great for mocking up a new UI)
    • Run usability studies
    • Create validation or regression test cases
    • See how a program handles streams of random data
    • Package the application for a particular Linux distro (or other OS)
    • Get the program to compile on a new platform
    • Create a Linux advocacy web site (probably not so easy to do right)
    • Provide training to new Linux users
    • Read relevant standards and make sure the program follows them
    • Convince people to chose Open Source products when possible
    • Write up case studies of successful Open Source implementations
    • Send the programmers some money

    The original list can be found here.

    --
    Software sucks. Open Source sucks less.
    1. Re:Some ideas by Hatta · · Score: 1

      How about commissioning new open source software? A government agency must have need for some specialty software that's only available commercially. Hire someone to write a replacement and open source it. It'll be cheaper in the long run, and the community gets the source code.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:Some ideas by anomalous+cohort · · Score: 1

      I vote for suggest new features and options. We are proposing a redesign to an open source project called KATO (mainstreaming software agents) where we have made available a discussion area and survey for soliciting feedback and ideas on the redesign. You can make a difference there on that project in only 5 minutes.

    3. Re:Some ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great list!
      How about one more?
      Create and update Wikipedia articles

    4. Re:Some ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here's another one that seems easy:
      Let it be known that such and such open source file formats are acceptable and supported when submitting various work or documents to your gov't agency.

      It wouldn't be the most obvious method of endorsement, but if people knew that you'd happily work with those filetypes - those paying attention would get a nice clue that you're using or are friendly to open source. Also some curious folks would wonder what those are, do some research, and perhaps learn about the software used, and then possibly become users of that software themselves.

    5. Re:Some ideas by saibot834 · · Score: 1

      If you speak languages other than English, contributing to translations is a good and effective way of helping. One platform where you can do so it translatewiki.net. It started as a project to translate MediaWiki, but now every free software project can handle their translations through translatewiki. It works quite well, there about 55 languages in which >99% of all MediaWiki messages are translated. (Don't worry, there is enough work to do on other translatewiki projects)

  25. do what I do by nomadic · · Score: 5, Funny

    I support open source software by making fun of various open source packages on slashdot. That encourages the developers to create better software.

    1. Re:do what I do by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Hmm... so, is your first name Linus, Theo, or Daniel?

    2. Re:do what I do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now you got me, Daniel? Who would that be? And how do I subscribe to his mailing list?

    3. Re:do what I do by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1
    4. Re:do what I do by Larryish · · Score: 1

      Firefox sucks and it needs a ribbon UI. HA HA :PpPpPp

  26. Contibute tempaltes, examples, help files, etc by MountainLogic · · Score: 1

    Some of your non-programming products that you do for an agency may be of values to others. Even well supported programs like OpenOffice could use more examples, templates, artwork, tutorials, help files, etc.

  27. Do not underestimate the value by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    of well written bug reports and RFEs for the projects/products you find useful.

    Perhaps you can collect small bits of usability data from your end users and present cases for improvement.

    While "Nothing says thank you like cash(tm)" it isn't the only option.

    amusing captcha "sharing"

  28. one idea... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You could always send naked pictures of your wife to the developers, I'm sure they would appreciate that.

  29. Using is helping by bornefearless · · Score: 1

    Just by the act of using OSS in government operations is helpful to the community in ways that are indirect but powerful. First, you're helping to preserve the open nature of the government through using technology that can be reviewed on demand by anyone, without having to get permission from a corporation with private interests. Second, by using OSS, you are saving money for your taxpayers by not exhorbitantly paying for upgrades and fixes to remain current. Third, you are representing a model of successful OSS deployment to other government agencies, which may lead to those agencies to switch to OSS in tight budget conditions. Through a long-term leaching effect, as more and more agencies use OSS, more money is freed up for other activities, including social services and projects that affect developers and the larger population alike, and technology grants may be made available over the long term that will benefit OSS projects. These arguments have been made before, time and time again, but reminders serve a purpose to express gratis for past efforts, and reinforce the drive to continue producing great works.

  30. Indeed by marcus · · Score: 1

    It's been a long time since I've seen grammar as good as yours in/on/around a /. FA.

    By all means YES!, write documentation for your favorite project.

    --
    Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgement.
    - W. Wriston, former Citibank CEO
  31. Sponsor it by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You may not be allowed to directly simply give money to OSS. Many OSS projects offer prefered "development direction" for donors, though. If you want a feature in a certain tool, get into contact with the maker and see whether the project offers this option.

    You're not simply giving money away. You are buying a feature. A feature that will be publically available and not exclusive to you, that's a given, but then again, I thought government spending was supposed to be done to make the public benefit from it.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Sponsor it by a0schweitzer · · Score: 1

      That's a really good point, especially since this may well alleviate the technicalities and opposition the OPs boss is expressing. By buying a new feature, the government agency isn't donating, but is buying something (yet at the same time IS donating). Plus you get the extra feature you're after, so it's win-win-win (for the developer, your boss, and your agency)

    2. Re:Sponsor it by squidfood · · Score: 1

      Many OSS projects offer prefered "development direction" for donors, though. If you want a feature in a certain tool, get into contact with the maker and see whether the project offers this option.

      Beware, though, that anything like this would likely have to be structured like (would actually be a) government contract with timelines, deliverables, and accountability. It would be difficult to get away with a mere "donate for a preferred direction." (If the developers are up for committing themselves to such a contract, no worries, but don't lead them to think there aren't necessary strings attached).

    3. Re:Sponsor it by plcurechax · · Score: 1

      Another means of doing this (sponsoring development) is to directly hire co-op or term contract employment of OSS developers to develop or maintain software that you already use.

      Think of Google's Summer of Code on a small scale.

  32. Speak at a conference by Nerdposeur · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Go to a government agency conference and do a presentation. Talk about how open source has saved you money, eliminated licensing headaches, etc etc. Show some charts.

    1. Re:Speak at a conference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But make sure you use pie charts.

    2. Re:Speak at a conference by plcurechax · · Score: 1

      Talk about how open source has saved you money, eliminated licensing headaches, etc etc.

      For my employer, the time and effort we save by not having to maintain and audit licenses, yet stay legal, is far more valuable than the license fees savings by using Open Source.

  33. free software does not imply price=0 by Shompol · · Score: 1

    From http://www.gnu.org/:

    “Free software” is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of “free” as in “free speech”, not as in “free beer”.

    Ask the software creator what is his suggested price is, and mark it as "payment for software", not as "donation" in the books. It's that simple.

  34. RTFS by nacturation · · Score: 1

    Take a couple of hundred dollars out of petty cash (call it software licensing) and donate it to those projects.

    Damn, dude... at least read the first line of the summary:

    That means we can't donate money, because it's a 'gift of public funds.'

    --
    Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
  35. Attend a conference by tyroneking · · Score: 1

    Attend a conference for your organisation - maybe a local govt conference or such like and evangelise for FOSS; people will believe your experiences much more than that of vendors and often local govt managers like to see proof from other similar organisations of FOSS success.

    Also, donate to the FOSS projects you use - get your manager to do so.

  36. Internal advocacy by BlackSabbath · · Score: 1

    The best thing you can do is internal advocacy. Keep reminding people how this "open source stuff" has helped deliver projects on time and under-budget (if it has). Keep reminding managers how well they've done to save taxpayers' money. By helping to change attitudes of management and raising the visibility of OSS to other stakeholders, you're making it easier for the next project for which OSS could be considered.

    Always remember though that the business case trumps all. Just make sure that your business case includes all the relevant factors (TCO, maintainability, flexibility, ...) in which OSS often shines. If your business case for OSS doesn't stack up for a particular project - then don't push it. You are an advocate for doing your own job for your own company the best way possible - this may often mean using OSS. You are (most probably) NOT paid to be an OSS zealot or fanboi.

  37. Software isn't just programming... by jafo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is a common mistake people make -- I can't program therefore I can't contribute to open source.

    There are so many other things involved in getting software out: project management, graphic design, testing, training, documentation, advocacy, support, system administration, bug triage, design, architecture, translation (from *AND TO* your language), releases, etc...

    Surely there's something you can do to help...

    Pick some of your favorite projects, pick what you like to do that could help them, and look for opportunities to help out. Chances are it will be very well received.

    Sean

    1. Re:Software isn't just programming... by Buelldozer · · Score: 1

      I've tried to contribute to OSS a few times doing documentation. I've either been blown off or had my updated documentation ignored. That stuff takes a significant amount of very tedious effort and to watch it languish and grow mold was more than I could take. I don't do it anymore.

      Your other suggestions might be good, except for Project Management. God / FSM couldn't tell a herd of developers what to do and make it stick...not unless they control the paycheck.

    2. Re:Software isn't just programming... by crimperman · · Score: 1

      Just to back the parent up - there are definitely more ways to contribute than coding. Find your particular niche skill and find how it might help.

      * You may not think of yourself as a documenter but can't you post useful bug reports?
      * You may not think of yourself as a programmer but can't you contribute to user wish lists and feedback?
      * You may not think of yourself as a teacher but can't you give advice on forums?

      I code free software as part of my job and my hobby but I've found other ways to contribute outside of coding as well (I don't do all of these myself):

      * Advocacy : tell your friends & help them
      * Artwork : I recently came up with a couple of additional "playgrounds" for Ktuberling for my kids. They liked them so much I'm considering submitting them to the project. It was really easy - draw the objects in inkscape and edit a text file. Okay you need the graphics skills but just saying it wasn't a programming task
      * Translations : We participate in a multi-cultural web and sometimes your language won't be the first language of those behind the project. They may have made a sterling effort but the grammar needs tidying or something - you could help with that.
      * Packaging : some packages are only available in rpm or deb or just source and they need packagers to make them available in other formats
      * Testing : you can use software so can you not test it?

      You've made a good start asking here but really - just go out there and do it. Browse the forums, read the help wanted section on Sourceforge and don't forget you can and should engage with the developers of free software.

    3. Re:Software isn't just programming... by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      I have actually ran into a few situations where people wanted to contribute in some way, but, didn't seem capable of doing the above, or not to the extent considered 'well' (being able to write coherent information makes a lot of that invalid by default, even though they really try).

      When it comes to art, I generally never mention it because people who are good at 'arty' type stuff tend to suggest that they can do this sort of stuff. Otherwise you end up in a situation where some people actually try to do some art and are really bad at it.. Yet see their artwork as really good and get quite upset when the project completely rejects their art work entirely, thus harming the project.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    4. Re:Software isn't just programming... by Ash-Fox · · Score: 1

      This is why the only documentation I tend to update these days is my own or a wiki.

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
  38. Help support users by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 1

    Here's the single biggest way you can help most open source projects, especially the relatively small ones: be active on the forums and help to answer questions from less experienced users. I run several open source projects, and user support can really cut into the time I have for developing them. Every time a user posts a helpful answer to another user's question, it means I don't have to do it myself, which means I can spend that time coding instead.

    Bug reports and feature requests are also useful. Learn to write good bug reports: the more precise and detailed, the better. A report that says, "Feature X doesn't work," is much less useful than a report that says, "Load the attached data file, select the 'Vaporize' command, and note the lack of an earth-shattering kaboom when you click OK."

    --
    "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
  39. Website idea is good... avoid endorsement by... by riprjak · · Score: 1

    Simply listing ALL software that is used, the vendor and the cost. This is then not an endorsement, simply informing the public.

    If it happens that alot of the software is open source and cheap, then that is just fact; not endorsement.

    Just my $0.02
    err!
    jak.

  40. one word... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    BEER!!!

  41. A few things by Alain+Williams · · Score: 1
    • Subscribe to FLOSS & related organisations and publications, eg: Linux Weekly News, Usenix, Free Software Foundation, ...
    • Leave the publications around for people to read
    • Go to conferences, send others in your dept to conferences
    • Get together with related Govt organisations and see what s/ware you can share; set up a common repository; making that repository world visible (may be harder)
    • If you produce interfaces for the public to use, fully document them so that FLOSS applications can use them
  42. What your government agency can do for open source by Orion+Blastar · · Score: 1

    I assume that you have a web site for that government agency? While you cannot say you use open source software to save tax money, or even donate to open source projects, what you can do is use open source file formats on your agency web site for when you give out government documents. Save them in OpenOffice.Org and ODF format as well as RTF and MS-Word format, claim you are doing so for "accessibility" to many different types of software. If you have an audio file use MP3 and OGG formats, etc.

    Ask your boss about beta testing software, if he says yes you can beta test the many open source projects. You don't need to be a programmer to be a beta tester. Tell your boss you are "evaluating" possible software your agency can use in the future to save money. I am sure he will say yes to that. While you cannot endorse open source software, you can test it.

    Write user manuals and documentation for open source software, tell your boss you are writing "training manuals" to make the software better understandable. Use an open source license on the manuals and documentation so that open source organizations can use your words and modify them to make better manuals and user documentation. Write some eBooks in PDF and ODF and RTF format and submit them to Legal Torrents from your home system, not your work system. Wikibooks is another place to write those books in provided you learn HTML codes and Wiki markup. But if you do join, send me a message and I can try to help you out. I have Wiki markup and HTML and XML skills and I am glad to teach it to someone willing to learn or at least find Internet web sites that can help out on that matter.

    --
    Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
  43. Programmer help. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Instead of buying "support" which you may not necessarily need. Etc etc. Another option would be convincing your boss to hire a programmer directly or indirectly. Who will then be tasked to do work on the open source softwares which you use. Thusly his primary job will be to fix bugs you are experiencing and improve the software itself. So while support money often can be going some phone guy or something in who the hell knows where? You now contribute to open source and have create a new job to fill. Which in this economy... *take a shot* that's a good thing.

  44. open source all code written with tax payer money by reusr1 · · Score: 1

    It would be nice if all software produced at government agencies would be available as open source applications for download. Then another agency trying to solve a similar problem or a company trying to write similar software could base their work on these open source apps. After all, that software is written with tax money and should be available to save tax money in other places or to be used by the tax payers if they wish to.

  45. PutSoftwareEngineersOutOfBusiness.com by psychogeist · · Score: 0, Troll

    You can go there and donate directly - the funds are used to buy blankets and food for already out of work engineers to develop more free software in their new found spare time... this in turn puts more engineers out of work... Its a great charity - donate today!

  46. What is wrong the endorsing something? by iamwahoo2 · · Score: 1

    I don't know if there is some crazy rule in the state that you work for, but in most governments there is nothing wrong with "endorsing" a product. Open source has received the endorsement at some of the highest levels of the federal government. I could directly point to many executives within the DoD that have specifically endorsed open source software.

  47. Hire some as consultants by m6ack · · Score: 1

    Does the SW that you use need to be extended for your work environment? Do you need a key improvement in terms of speed or utility? If so, then write up a req. for consultant work to extend the SW for your purpose. Make certain that the original developer is contacted about the contract opportunity.

    If the contract goes to another bidder, the work will still be a derivative of open source SW and the contractor must needs give you the source... Send the new extension's source to the author (if he's interested).

  48. Easy... by the_cosmocat · · Score: 1

    Convince your boss that the best softwares are most expensive ones. And if you find the software you use quite good, you have to pay it high....

  49. Question needs clarification... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you asking how you can personally contribute or how you can contribute government resources? For personal contribution, many projects accept monetary donations. If you're asking how to divert gov't resources to such projects, I would like to remind you that that probably isn't something you're supposed to be doing.

  50. Taking and giving by Quila · · Score: 1

    I like the idea of government-funded development open source software.

    Not for charity, not Stallman's open source tax, but when the resulting software fulfills a specific government requirement.

    This way the tax dollars don't just go to some company in the form of licenses, but the results of the government spending are given back directly to the people in the form of code and a (hopefully) better free application for them to use.

  51. ensure that everything is on an open format by doug · · Score: 1

    I've been annoyed at the government's use of proprietary formats since some moron at the IRS made wrapped some PDFs in a self extracting ZIP file. The linux tools at the time (the was in the 90s) didn't work well enough, and I had to work around it all. Now days most data files in closed formats have open source viewers, but not all. My son's school uses a bunch of MS only crap and I can't stand it. I have a MS netbook just so he can view everything. If you have any say in how the data is presented, format everything in a linux friendly way.

    Likewise, keep IE specific junk off of your webserver.

    I also liked someone else's idea of doing a writeup of how much you save annually by not buying close source tools. This can help others in Government/Corporate America make the case of switching to Linux. And any publicity is good publicity.

    - doug

  52. Join A Local LUG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Individually join a local Linux User Group. You will discover ample opportunities over time to contribute.

  53. Allow bids from open source supporters/companies by blanks · · Score: 1

    From what I know from firends who have worked with state/federal agencies most work done out of the agency requires them to accept bids for work. Meaning a number of companies or people bid on the projects to get this work. Its done this way so there can (nor should there be) any endorcement.

    When projects come up conact known open source groups, companies etc that there are bids for the available work. Yes you wont be contributing directly to the projects, but you could get the developers making cash with allows them to offer more to the projects they are working on.

  54. Metagovernment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you are in government, you really should explore the Metagovernment project and its affiliated suite of open source projects.

  55. suggestion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd say documentation would be the most helpful(or translation if you're fluent in another language) way to contribute. I've found that a lot of open source projects are harder to use simply because I'm not used to them(i.e. Linux may be 10x better than Windows, but people are used to Windows, so a lot of those benefits aren't seen or noticed). So if you're using OpenVPN now instead of ____ and you understand it pretty well, consider writing really basic guides with every step detailed. This is something you can share with your colleagues and with the community as a whole.

          I'm pretty bad at a lot of Linux based stuff right now, but whenever I find a well-written guide it saves me hours or days of frustration. Just be very detailed(leaving off a step means the person following the guide will leave it off too, and then they'll be left scratching their heads) and don't assume they know anything. That's the biggest problem I find with a lot of open source things. They're pretty simple to use, they're free, and they might have a mailing list or forum where you can ask for help, but documentation is more like reading about what it can do, instead of reading how to do something. And when there are guides for doing something they often leave off key things or gloss over them.

  56. How about a Pat On The Back? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You deserve one.

  57. i hear open source fanbois like it in the ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So maybe you can take a few in the rear for the team.

  58. "Forcibly"? by EWAdams · · Score: 1

    Some states are so well-endowed that they don't need to take any money from anyone, forcibly or otherwise.

    If you don't like the taxes your democratically-elected representatives have elected to collect, you should move to one of them.

    --
    I piss off bigots.
  59. See What they're Doing Higher on the Food Chain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From too many years in the bureaurocracy (incl the WH), my experience is that it helps to point out that higher up on the food chain, they're doing exactly that. Like:

    See the WH implementation of Open Source Drupal at http://drupal.org/node/375843

    See DoD's activities re Open Source at http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/02/department-of-defense-launches-open-source-site-forgemil.ars

  60. But they ARE endorsing it! by Requiem18th · · Score: 1

    The very use of a product constitutes endorsement, unless you claim you are just testing the product, your continued use of it constitutes endorsement, and yet not having the honesty to accept it!

    Like somebody else said, you should talk about it in conferences and, I'd suggest blog about it.

    --
    But... the future refused to change.
  61. Save money in other ways by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you're interested in software freedom then I will assume you're also interested in a much more important freedom: the freedom of people. The main way to protect our liberties in this day and age is to advocate for a much smaller government. You probably won't like hearing this, but the chances are that the government department you work for should not exist. Unless is makes more money than it consumes, then it is funded by forced wealth redistribution.

  62. Re:bids and approved vendors by rnturn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "If they want a microwave they can't just go down to Target and buy one. They have to solicit bids from three approved vendors and MUST go with the lowest price for the item."

    That must have been one heck of a microwave. Back in a previous life, I worked for the State of Ohio. You had to go through a bidding process for things that cost $1K or more. (That may be different nowadays but that was the way things were back in the '80s. And it was amazing how many quotes for $980 or $995 you would get from suppliers; they knew the rules as well as we did.) For a microwave oven, we probably would have taken up a collection in the department. (We actually had a microwave back then. Wonder how it was paid for? I doubt it cost a grand, though.) I know that when I was in grad school, a bunch of us collected the money for a decent coffee maker for the lab; no bidding process required. :^)

    We had to deal with approved vendor lists as well. They work as long as the people who made the list of vendors knew what they were doing. Back in the day when 8-inch floppies ruled the earth, there were as many formats as there were manufacturers (it seemed). After three failed attempts to use the approved vendors to get a single stinking box of floppies that would work in a PDP-11 floppy drive -- with each attempt taking about ten days from placing the order through the arrival of the wrong media -- I ordered some from the office supply store we walked past on the way back from lunch. Accounts payable was going to refuse to pay the store because they weren't "on the list". After we explained that they were holding up a federally funded research project, they backed off and paid the invoice.

    As for bids, I doubt that they must accept the lowest bid. There was an established procedure we could go through to justify selecting a bid that was not the lowest cost. We didn't use it often because it was a pain to write up the justification but it was possible. Again, times may have changed so my experience may not apply any more. And California's budgeting process is infamous for being impossible to deal with. Ohio's may be just as bad now as far as I know.

    --
    CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
  63. Contribute by making new slashdot GNU icon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Contribute by making new slashdot GNU icon, the one they have now looks like a turd.

  64. Money by zogger · · Score: 1

    Your state obviously doesn't have any problem paying cash money for the closed source software you use, the precedent is set, so you *could* pay at least some directly to the open source/free developers for customization, bug fixing and consultation services, for the stuff you get from them.

      Just because it is offered free as in beer, doesn't mean you have to be a complete cheapskate about it, you'd still be saving a lot over closed source, always must pay the big bucks software, so I can't see your bosses beef here. You don't donate, you *contract for services*. In your entire budget, they couldn't come up with a grand or two to offer for those contracted services, directly to the devs? I mean, hire them, real part time. Figure out how much using the FOSS stuff is saving you, a ballpark, and even 5 or 10% there would be a lot more than zero to those devs, plus get their stuff working a lot better for you (and everyone else).

    Cash money is a spiffy motivator it is

    With that side..side issue..there are a thousand linux distros out there, but I have yet to see the one I want. I haven't seen a really *fair* one yet.

        I would like a once a year to every three years release distro, with a smallish but reasonable amount of apps, (as in, please not 15 media players, like pick one and stick to it, etc) and pay for that sucker, so it *works*. Cash money is a good inducement for bug fixes over yet more eyecandy, for human non nerd readable actually helpful documentation over cryptic man pages first written in punch card days and barely updated since then. And etc. Take it professional in other words.

        Not a huge sum, but above free like it is now and below what microsoft and apple charge, call it maybe 50 bucks per release, and no way every six months, that just leads to perpetual betaware, stuff breaks as much as it gets enhanced every time that way. The distro maintainers/releasers would do profit sharing with the devs for the included apps, say half and half.

      This gets rid of the lame "micropayments" problem, so that people could help support that which they really like and use.

  65. Information about the use within government by adamkennedy · · Score: 1

    Many authors of open source software (particularly smaller cases) will only ever experience a limited range of situations, which will influence the design.

    People who have only ever worked in large corporations will make things overly complex to configure, people who only work in startups may undervalue documentation and reporting (I'm making hugely vast generalisations here).

    One valuable thing you can contribute is your experience using that software in government. You understand the nature of government and its priorities probably a lot better than the original developers.

    Contribute bug reports, feature requests, and commentary (ideally into proper bug/feature tracking systems) that address specific areas of interest to government.

    Open Source developers love it when they hear their work is being used in interesting real-world scenarios, and your experience with government can suggest directions they might otherwise not have considered, or have underprioritised in the past.

  66. Re:Nice hipocracy there... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wait, you lost me. When did he say he works for a government agency run by hippos?

  67. Try these things by mattr · · Score: 1

    Help with documentation.
    Give presentations about the solutions you have and how you have saved much money with these open source apps.
    Tell open source vendors whose apps you use, that it was very helpful, and why, so they can sell to similar government offices.
    Tell colleagues and people in other offices about it.
    Keep track of how much you are spending for commercial, and for open source software. Later write a report on cost of ownership.

  68. OSS Works vs .... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ha ha ha - some of these comments about being careful with money are *so uninformed* I live in a big state in the US. It was recently in the paper that our state has spent over $1 BILLION dollars on sfwr systems that DON'T WORK.. Thats right, not a billion total, I am saying, just the ones in the spotlight for not working!! Guess where they are located? In the finance sector.. Writing checks, accounting, getting money, etc. Systems that are in either complete or partial FAIL - +$1 BILLION. and the OSS people scrape together a trac instance..

    the world is so out of balance.. all these smart commenters have no clue..

  69. There are many ways to contribute to free software by Dennis+Sheil · · Score: 2, Informative
    Money, code and endorsements are some methods of contributing, but there are many ways to help.

    This list is good, but it can also be used as a jumping off point. For example "submit bug reports". That is one thing you can do, but there are a lot of bug-related things you can do. Bugs are reported to the wrong place, bugs are reported with little information etc. Someone doing the grunt work dealing with that takes the load off of developers who can be doing higher level work.

    Also, I wouldn't sell myself short on coding ability. Say someone files a bug that something that worked for them in version 2.3 is now broken in version 2.9. You can go through the versions and see which was the last working version - this saves the developers time in having to do that. You can even go through each code commit between versions and see which one broke the functionality - this will save developers even more time. You can do a lot of grunt work to narrow down problems for developers without even really understanding how the code works.

  70. Government can't pay for no service by rwade · · Score: 1

    A government agency can't pay for something that is not really going to be provided. That is, if the $1000 is going to get them no support, then someone is going to raise a red flag.

    1. Re:Government can't pay for no service by Sparr0 · · Score: 1

      Then the $1000 would get them $1000 worth of support. Which is probably about 10 hours worth of configuration of a base image to meet the client's needs. An excellent deal for both sides.

    2. Re:Government can't pay for no service by rwade · · Score: 1

      That's fine, but that's not what parent said:

      None; it's a donation that's put through as a support contract for legal reasons

    3. Re:Government can't pay for no service by danbert8 · · Score: 1

      I ask you to please re-read your post, and then tell me how much the government wastes every day. (Hint: It's more than 1000 bucks)

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    4. Re:Government can't pay for no service by rwade · · Score: 1

      What kind of argument is this? You're suggesting that because the government wastes some money it should have license to waste more? Come on...

  71. Buy Support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Buy support, but not necessarily from the company who produced the software. Often, those companies have decided to release 2 versions of the software, yet still get called Open Source. It's almost like turning into an Obama democrat ... after the fact.

    I could name-names, but why. If the code used for the "enterprise" version doesn't match the code used for the "community edition", I have issues with the company. If the enterprise modules don't eventually end up in the community edition, that's another way to know they are less than ideal OSS companies.

    Look at OpenNMS - the same code and tools are provided to everyone. Nice. There support pricing is posted and reasonable for what you're actually getting.

  72. Give a presentation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Give a presentation at a conference or seminar demonstrating your use. It's a win for the agency and for the projects you use.

  73. Look at the U of Utah as an example by Lorien_the_first_one · · Score: 1

    The UofU is a public school of higher education *and* it has an ubuntu mirror. Very cool. Check them out and ask around to see how they did it. Considering the conservative leanings of the electorate in this state, someone should be complaining about that mirror, but I don't see it happening.

    Hope that helps.

    --
    The diversity and expression of human opinion is essential to human survival.
  74. no donationats necessary by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    That you're saving taxpayer dollars is good enough, really.

    If you're feeling especially altruistic giving the authors of the projects you use some feedback on what features would help your organization use the open source software more effectively is normally well received and a wise developer values such feedback more than cash.

    Many of us developers (open source or otherwise) have experiences that only covers a few industries and when we stray too far from those areas the needs and desires of users in other industries becomes a mystery to us.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  75. Here's how.. by HellYeahAutomaton · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Expose Open Source for the charity work that it really is.

    You can convince your state to allow open source contributors to get tax deductions based on their hourly contributions at their usual rate of pay, up to %10 of their annual income.

  76. Participate, suggest and comment by hughbar · · Score: 1

    Even if it's not money that's flowing, help the community around the product by reporting issues, making suggestions and giving others a helping hand. This makes the software better and the community around it more sustainable and welcoming. In fewer words, don't just be a 'consumer'.

    --
    On y va, qui mal y pense!
  77. The obvious response by ryzvonusef · · Score: 1

    Q: How Can I Contribute To Open Source?
    A: By RTFM :)

    --
    I am an ACCA student. Got a query on Accountancy/Finance? Maybe I can help!
    1. Re:The obvious response by imakemusic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or by WTFM

      --
      Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
  78. Hyper-V supports only SuSE 1P by symbolset · · Score: 1, Informative

    Link.

    Only one Linux, and that their pet from Novell - and only with one processor per guest. Yeah, that's cross-platform. And for client operating systems there's five versions of Windows and nothing else.

    And then there's the licensing. If you're using more than one Windows guest you had better be running Windows Datacenter (and the required SA) on the host or you're a filthy pirate and the BSA will be along presently to audit your books. Even if you keep that straight, if you fail over you have to wait 30 days to fail back because of the licensing.

    No thanks.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
    1. Re:Hyper-V supports only SuSE 1P by Anpheus · · Score: 1

      Why would we have to run Datacenter if we have more than one Windows guest?

      Do you have anything to back that up?

    2. Re:Hyper-V supports only SuSE 1P by symbolset · · Score: 1
      Licensing costs (.doc format, sorry.) That was old information for Server 2003 and before.

      Licensing Windows Server: Each copy of Microsoft Windows Server, whether used as the OS for a virtual machine ("guest OS") or as the OS for the server ("host OS"), must be separately licensed. For example, if a user is running Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition as a host OS on a server and creates two virtual machines, each with its own copy of Windows 2000 Server (each a guest OS), the user would require one Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition license and two Windows 2000 Server licenses.

      The new information: 2008 Enterprise (.docx) gives you four guests. Standard gives you one. Datacenter doesn't give you any if your guest operating systems need to be authenticated and managed through AD, but unlimited if they don't. I'm not sure why they would do that, but there it is.

      As you can see from the documents the licensing messaging of virtual guests on Windows Hyper-V has been neither consistent nor clear. I would think if Microsoft could do one thing well it would be to explain what you need to buy to achieve what you want to do, but apparently they forgot the need for that.

      Limiting a modern server to four guests is quite silly. A normal dual socket Nehalem server can support more than 50 typical VMs. I'm trying to imagine a scenario where I would want to run Windows servers in a VM but then not authenticate and manage them with AD and coming up blank. Maybe you could help me out with that one.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    3. Re:Hyper-V supports only SuSE 1P by Anpheus · · Score: 1

      You're misrepresenting their pretty public postings on VM hosting. The guest numbers are how many VMs of Windows Server you're allowed to run virtually on the same box you licensed. Standard means you get one physical + one virtual. Enterprise is one physical and four virtual. Datacenter is one physical and unlimited virtual. Anonymous Datacenter is a special SKU used for SPLAs, that is, it's something Amazon might use to host their Windows guests, or RackSpace, or whoever. It gives them the ability to run as many VMs as they want, but not as part of their network.

      Your post is pure FUD. I can run a hundred Ubuntu Server VMs on Server Standard, not limited to "one guest" or "four guests" or any of this nonsense.

      So to summarize: Windows Server licensing only applies to Windows Server, and Hyper-V can run dozens or hundreds of guests on any edition. In fact, Hyper-V Server is free and supports clustering, high availability and live migration, and optionally can be joined to a AD Domain and managed through that infrastructure. Windows Server licensing with Hyper-V gives you 1...n virtual instances you can run on the same box as virtual machines. On Standard it's 1, on Enterprise it's 4, on Datacenter it's unlimited. That only applies to Windows Server.

      The price points are intelligently set as well. If you plan on running more than 2 VMs of Windows Server, it's more cost effective to get Enterprise. If you plan on running more than 4 VMs of Windows Server per processor, it's more cost effective to get Datacenter.

      Using those simple guidelines, let's say you have four dual Xeon 5500 boxes. On one you just want domain controller, no VMs. On one you want to run a dozen VMs of Windows Server, and on the other two you want to run fifty VMs of Slackware.

      Buy 1x Windows Server Standard, 2x Server Datacenter (for your two processors), and then on the other box put Hyper-V Server for free, store the images on a SAN for high availability.

  79. Not quite by Errol+backfiring · · Score: 1

    Especially the comments about "gifts" dazzle me. Do you view a free open source program as a gift to the government? You can see it as a gift to humanity, so also a gift to government. On the other side, you could see it as "part of nature": free for anyone to pick up, but not given by anyone.

    When you see it as a gift, is it automatically seen as a potential bribe? In that case, government would be forbidden to use anything that is open source and free of charge. That would surely not be a good thing.

    In fact, many open source programs already form an alternative to the monetary system, and the anti-bribe rules do take into account that bribes are not necessary money.

    --
    Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
  80. Other possibilities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Contributing to OpenSource shouldn't be all about $$$.

    Money is needed, but there are other things.

    Contributions could also be in the form of:
    - Detailed bug reports.
    - Usage feedback, including suggestions for improvements (new features, etc).
    - User support via helping answer questions within project forums.
    - Helping with language translations.
    - If you're artistically inclined; helping with GUI art (buttons etc).

    There are more requirements to an open source project than just coding & money.

  81. Hire a programmer by Stephen+Nelson · · Score: 1

    Why not employ someone to work on one of the projects you appreciate? Ideally, someone who already works on it.

    1. Re:Hire a programmer by jhaiduce · · Score: 1

      Or hire/contract to write new open source software. If you have an need in your agency for software features that aren't already available in open source, you could justify funding one or more programmers to develop them as an open source product.

  82. Documentation, documentation, documentation by mopflite · · Score: 3, Informative

    FOSS needs good documentation at this point more than anything else. There are dozens of superb FOSS applications out there which are almost unusable by all but experienced, technically knowledgeable users due to impenetrable and/or overly sparse documentation. New users, particularly new users migrating from Microsoft Windows, have neither the time nor motivation to learn the somewhat arcane terminology of man pages, nor to view one application's man page, then spend a day or so going through the same process in respect of another application that the first application's man page references (and so on, often ad infinitum). Quality documentation written for non-technical users to be able to follow and understand is essential if FOSS is to make further inroads into the Microsoft installed base. If you have technical authors, or ordinary users who are keen on and understand FOSS and have above average documentation authorship skills and a few hours to spare, I am sure that many FOSS projects would be delighted to hear from you.

  83. Bring OSS to Libraries by EgNagRah · · Score: 0

    Get a group together and host classes for creativity with free computer programing in the many libraries in nearly every community...if you have that much moneys...but maybe it wouldn't cost much? I don't see too much innovative changing going on in the world.

  84. Re:bids and approved vendors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I concur.

    State of GA has a system in place similar to that. In fact, we actually put something out to bid then used a quote we had because none of the bids came back beating that price. Then if we want to fill out paperwork for sole source or sole provider we don't necessarily have to put it out for bid.

    But office supplies? You guys must not be ordering from Staples. We just log on to the site, pick what we want (state contract prices), get no-extra-charge next day shipping and it gets billed to our purchasing card. Everyone's purchasing card gets examined with a fine tooth comb every month. And we have pencils, whichever ones we damn well please.

  85. Hire someone to add a feature by Nerdposeur · · Score: 1

    If you use a piece of FOSS software that lacks a feature you need, hire one of the project's developers to add that feature and contribute it back to the project.

    This is great because:

    1) You get the feature you need for a low, one-time cost
    2) If it's added back to the main project, it simplifies your future installations
    3) You help the project to continue development, which again benefits your organization in the future
    4) This use of taxpayer money goes to create something that all citizens can use. Public dollars for public benefit.

  86. "Only ONE remote root in the last release!" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your boss lets you PAY MONEY to deliberately expose your company's data systems to cyber-gangsters?

    Afterall, OpenBSD assures it's users there was precisely one remote vulnerability in the last release. How many in the current release? AHAHAHAHA

  87. reframe: how can i get my employer to contribute? by jnowlan · · Score: 1

    I'd like to reframe the question as above.

    We use OSS where I work (uni.) but a lot of it is through the back door. When our CIO started he disparaged OSS so that the mgr's were wary of suggesting/promoting it. Yet in all the hallway conversations people are pushing it and it has become a significant proportion of our infrastructure, but I do not think it gets the support it deserves.

    The vendors get the money but we use OSS/Free software when it is appropriate. So the question I’ve been pondering is how to get the org. to recognize this increasingly obvious fact through more financial support for the projects that are really making a difference.

    Of course one big question is: when is OSS/Free software appropriate? Often we rely on vendors because they provide a complete solution where the alternatives just don’t measure up. It’s hard to argue against a COTS solution here, but I feel it often abdicates responsibility for a solution in favor of a check box against the problem.

  88. Maintain it by Sloppy · · Score: 1

    I have never heard of anyone taking any non-trivial (hello world) piece of software and being 100% happy with it as-is. The neat thing about Free Software is that you can actually get the maintenance that you want. So if you're doing that in-house, just make sure you offer your changes back. Or hire someone to add the things that you want. That's not a gift; that's quid-pro-quo. And while it may sound expensive at first, I have heard of governments spending outrageous amounts of money just buying updates for proprietary software, and it's just blindly accepted. There's no reason that same money (or a fraction thereof) can't be spent on targeted we-want-this-feature maintenance instead.

    I had the idea to put up a Web page stating that we 'use the following free software to save tax dollars,' as a way to help spread the word about open source software, but management calls this an 'endorsement.'

    Then do an implicit endorsement, like most Microsoft users do. If they can put MS Word .doc files on their webservers and email attachments (the message being, "If you don't use proprietary (specifically Microsoft) products, then FUCK YOU!"), then you can use standardized formats instead, and the counter-message ("If you don't use proprietary products, that's ok") will be clear even though it's implicit.

    Another thing you can do is Not Worry. Even if you don't fund Free Software, when you use it, at least you're not funding proprietary software or locking your users into it. Abstaining from creating a harmful network effect, can be viewed as a positive thing in itself. Yeah, this is weak and indirect, but it's something.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  89. Hide Your Endorsement In A Help Page by dprovine · · Score: 1

    I don't know exactly what you do, but if you have any files for download you can put them up in ODT and PDF format, and then have a link which says "These files are available in PDF format and ODT format. Many computers have software which can read PDF files; if yours does not, you can download it from Adobe (throw in a link). ODT files can be opened using many programs which are also available for free, including AbiWord, OpenOffice.org, and which can be downloaded from here. All of these programs can be used in Microsoft Windows, Apple's OS X, Linux, and BSD.

    Another thing you might do is have a "compatibility page", in which you have FAQ-type stuff of the form "Q: If I want to send you an electronic file, what format should I use? A: We use OpenOffice.org, which can read files in many formats, including the standard ODT format as well as things such as Microsoft Word format."

    Dunno if any of that helps you or not.

  90. symbolset = "THE BIG TALKER" (and that's it) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SymbolNOBODY:

    You said what's quoted below from you, here -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1476008&cid=30428430

    "It's tolerated (perhaps encouraged) in part because these annoying actors are otherwised engaged in improving Linux. Major Debian and BSD contributors, for example, use slashdot as a workspace for their human-machine interaction side experiments, of which APK is probably one. In addition many of these trolls post links which, if you follow them, will completely hose a Windows machine. This is part of the game. - by symbolset (646467) on Monday December 14, @01:15AM (#30428430) Journal

    I took offense to the BOLDED part... & ALL you EVER seem to have is "ad hominem" based attacks on people, not the points they make. So, my reply in the URL below was simple (and logical):

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1476008&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=30428430#30430244

    Additionally, "symbolNOBODY"? Well - the day you can make something like this (& that got you PAID for it, & that has done as well for others online):

    http://www.tcmagazine.com/forums/index.php?s=b861a743aa23c4568b7d73e07ef7ecec&showtopic=2662

    That's also gone over 250.000 views worldwide in 1++ yrs.' time online, & across 15 forums where that guide for Windows Security has been made either an:

    1.) "Sticky/Pinned" thread
    2.) An "Essential Guide"
    3.) Rates 5/5 stars (etc.)

    AND, gets "feedback" like this from users that have applied it:

    ----

    http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28430

    PERTINENT QUOTE/EXCERPT:

    "...recently, months ago when you finally got this guide done, had authorization to try this on simple work station for kids. My client, who paid me an ungodly amount of money to do this, has been PROBLEM FREE FOR MONTHS! I haven't even had a follow up call which is unusual. Now I don't recommend this for the average joe, but it if can work for a kids PC it can work for anything! Now, i substituted OpenDNS and activated the Adult Content filter with them for this kids computer. I know its not perfect, but will catch over 99.5% of said sites."

    and

    http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=10f9ba9ad5ff990aaae1e7ec91f593a2&t=28430&page=3

    "Its 2009 - still trouble free! I was told last week by a co worker who does active directory administration, and he said I was doing overkill. I told him yes, but I just eliminated the half life in windows that you usually get. He said good point. So from 2008 till 2009. No speed decreases, its been to a lan party, moved around in a move, and it still NEVER has had the OS reinstalled besides the fact I imaged the drive over in 2008. Great stuff! My client STILL Hasn't called me back in regards to that one machine to get it locked down for the kid. I am glad it worked and I am sure her wallet is appreciated too now that it works. Speaking of which, I need to call her to see if I can get some leads. APK - I will say it again, the guide is FANTASTIC! Its made my PC experience much easier. Sandboxing was great. Getting my host file updated, setting services to system service, rather than system local. (except AVG updater, needed system local)"

    Thronka - forums member @ xtremepccentral.com

    ----

    THEN, when you have done so, on THAT account? THEN, you can talk!

    Also?

    When you have done all of this as I have over time in this Art & S

  91. Documentation by goatbar · · Score: 1

    Do whatever you can. Documentation, packaging, training, whatever

    Consider even just small steps... e.g. posting small examples of using FOSS can help a lot. I use my blog to help NOAA accomplish its mission indirectly. One instance is how to use QGIS to read data directly from a PostGIS database:

    Using QGIS to view PostGIS data

    Now, how do I convince the NOAA IT folks that QGIS should be on more peoples machines?

  92. Symbolset you talk the talk: Do you walk the walk? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    SymbolNOBODY, you "TALK A BIG GAME" but, let's see you backup your b.s.: After all, You said what's quoted below from you, here -> http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1476008&cid=30428430

    "It's tolerated (perhaps encouraged) in part because these annoying actors are otherwised engaged in improving Linux. Major Debian and BSD contributors, for example, use slashdot as a workspace for their human-machine interaction side experiments, of which APK is probably one. In addition many of these trolls post links which, if you follow them, will completely hose a Windows machine. This is part of the game. - by symbolset (646467) on Monday December 14, @01:15AM (#30428430) Journal

    I took offense to the BOLDED part... & ALL you EVER seem to have is "ad hominem" based attacks on people, not the points they make. So, my reply in the URL below was simple (and logical):

    http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1476008&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=30428430#30430244

    Additionally, "symbolNOBODY"? Well - the day you can make something like this (& that got you PAID for it, & that has done as well for others online):

    http://www.tcmagazine.com/forums/index.php?s=b861a743aa23c4568b7d73e07ef7ecec&showtopic=2662

    That's also gone over 250.000 views worldwide in 1++ yrs.' time online, & across 15 forums where that guide for Windows Security has been made either an:

    1.) "Sticky/Pinned" thread
    2.) An "Essential Guide"
    3.) Rates 5/5 stars (etc.)

    AND, gets "feedback" like this from users that have applied it:

    ----

    http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28430

    PERTINENT QUOTE/EXCERPT:

    "...recently, months ago when you finally got this guide done, had authorization to try this on simple work station for kids. My client, who paid me an ungodly amount of money to do this, has been PROBLEM FREE FOR MONTHS! I haven't even had a follow up call which is unusual. Now I don't recommend this for the average joe, but it if can work for a kids PC it can work for anything! Now, i substituted OpenDNS and activated the Adult Content filter with them for this kids computer. I know its not perfect, but will catch over 99.5% of said sites."

    and

    http://www.xtremepccentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=10f9ba9ad5ff990aaae1e7ec91f593a2&t=28430&page=3

    "Its 2009 - still trouble free! I was told last week by a co worker who does active directory administration, and he said I was doing overkill. I told him yes, but I just eliminated the half life in windows that you usually get. He said good point. So from 2008 till 2009. No speed decreases, its been to a lan party, moved around in a move, and it still NEVER has had the OS reinstalled besides the fact I imaged the drive over in 2008. Great stuff! My client STILL Hasn't called me back in regards to that one machine to get it locked down for the kid. I am glad it worked and I am sure her wallet is appreciated too now that it works. Speaking of which, I need to call her to see if I can get some leads. APK - I will say it again, the guide is FANTASTIC! Its made my PC experience much easier. Sandboxing was great. Getting my host file updated, setting services to system service, rather than system local. (except AVG updater, needed system local)"

    Thronka - forums member @ xtremepccentral.com

    ----

    THEN, when you have done so, on THAT account? THEN, you can talk (and, ESPECIALLY about

  93. Tit for tat by symbolset · · Score: 1

    [citation needed]

    Lots of folks could use some clear messaging on Hyper-V licensing, including me. If you've got some nice links that would be handy.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
    1. Re:Tit for tat by Anpheus · · Score: 1

      http://www.microsoft.com/hyper-v-server/en/us/default.aspx

      Well Hyper-V Server is free, and supports clustering and subsequently, high-availability when images are stored on a SAN, live migration likewise, and all that.

      The only difference with Windows Server editions, that is, Standard, Enterprise, and Datacenter, is that they give you additional guest licenses.

      The way I understand it, from this resource:

      http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2008/en/us/licensing-faq.aspx

      The ideal way to set up Hyper-V and Windows Server licensing wise is to have all your management stuff (System Center, third party management consoles, whatever you need to manage VMs and guest OSes) on the physical OS instance. Then you have one to many VMs that do "work", that is, runs your application, provides remote desktop, etc.

      Now, I don't know how loosely Microsoft defines management. Is running the physical instance as an Active Directory Domain Controller considered "work" or is it necessary to manage the guest operating systems? I think they leave this intentionally vague and I doubt you'd ever get in trouble if they audited you and found that your server farm used physical instances for stuff like that. And with Hyper-V, in order to provide DHCP, DNS, etc to a private virtual network, you'd have to run those services on your physical instance or another VM.

      So, to play it safe, pretend that with Server Standard and Server Enterprise you get 1 or 4 instances to play with on a server, and then each install counts as one. That's the absolutely safe way to do it. If you really want to play it safe and you're consolidating a lot of VMs, Datacenter gives you unlimited VMs and is more cost effective than Enterprise when you use more than 4 Windows Server VMs per processor.

      Hope this helps. I am an IT/developer at a small business in Iowa and we use Linux for some services, firewalls and VPNs to branch offices (one in Iowa, two in Minnesota.)

  94. Documentation by bahamat · · Score: 1

    Many open source programs have horrendous documentation. If you can read and write in English (or any other language) and are even remotely capable of reading source code then document it. Parts that you don't understand you can ask the developer to explain it to you. Pick a project you like, e-mail the maintainer and ask if you can contribute documentation.

    Most engineers hate doing documentation. It takes up a ton of time that we'd rather spend writing code. If they're smart, they'll love you for it.