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Man Tries To Use Explosive Device On US Flight
reporter writes with news that a Nigerian man allegedly attempted to set off a small explosive device — possibly a firecracker — on a Delta Airbus 330 airliner bound for Detroit yesterday. "There was a pop and then smoke wafted through the cabin. A passenger then climbed over several seats, lunged across the aisle and managed to subdue the suspect, the eyewitnesses said. The Nigerian man was placed in a headlock before being dragged up to the first class cabin. Passenger Zeina Seagal told CNN that after the suspect was collared and parts of his burning pants were removed, flight attendants quickly grabbed fire extinguishers and doused the fire at his seat." The man has claimed links to al-Qaeda, though the investigation hasn't confirmed that yet. (They're not taking anything for granted given that his pants were literally on fire.)
The new rules are hilarious however:
- Not allowed to have any items or anything on your lap for the last 1 hour of flight
- Not allowed to go to toilet during that time either
- Crew doesn't tell about cities or landmarks so passengers don't know where they are flying (it's so hard to time that on clock)
What is that going to improve?
Crazy loner sets off home made firecracker on plane and lights pants on fire.
He was coming to the States to deliver my $40,000,000US.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Oh, this is wonderful. Now we will probably be strip searched and forced to wear airline clothing. Why not just reconfigure planes to be more like cargo vehicles and put all passengers into a coma and pack and transport them like packages? :(
Our service today includes a light snack, complimentary beverages and a weenie roast in coach class.
Never shake hands with a man you meet in a fertility clinic.
It did not sound like a firecracker in the latest reports I have been hearing on the radio. Latest: it was a powder, plus a liquid from a syringe. My blogger buddy remembered something I forgot, there is a way to ignite thermite with a liquid (potassium permanganate and glycerol? sorry for forgetting), but no idea what this was yet.
Home of The Suki Series
Wow! And all these years, I've not had the thousands US$ to pay to upgrade to first class and all it took was a dadgum 4th of July firecracker!!
... that the plane landed in Havana, the hijacker got off the plane, and everyone went around their business or it landed in Tel-Aviv, the plane on the ground, and the hijackers shot/arrested with one or two dead passengers that the hijackers had killed to show they were "serious". The passengers sat in their seats and waited it out.
Those were the days when hijackers could depend on the passivity of passengers.
With planes being flown into buildings, passengers are no longer passive. It's not the TSA that keeps planes safe, it's the passengers and crew that will beat the snot out of the latest Al-Q "martyr."
--
BMO
These guys are not stupid, if they wanted to do it they would succeed. I suspect that the bloke is a lone nutter who wanted to draw attention to himself or had some grudge or something. He may even have sympathised with al-Qaeda - but that does not make it an al-Qaeda plot.
However the result of this is that the various security agencies around the world will use this as as excuse to increase the boarding checks resulting in more pain to us and their continued employment.
Just tell me that this guy did not carry the explosives inside his anus. Imagine TSA inspectors and their updated security guidelines.
(Too early?)
The message is clear: Don't fuck with people flying in to Detroit. We have very little to lose. I can see that scenario playing out now:
"I will blow up the plane!"
"Jackass, I'm *willingly* leaving a place with universal health care, low crime, and pot on every street corner to go *home* to a city with crushing illiteracy, high crime, and an epic unemployment level. Do you think I really give a flying fuck about dying?"
I just wonder how many people were uncomfortable with the extra federal attention the flight got when it landed =)
There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell 'em.
From the desk of Barrister Kofi Kukukuku,
Ministry of Finance,
Federal Republic of Nigeria.
Dear ,
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of attempted bombing of a commercial flight from Amsterdam and is being held Ilegally by the
United States., who is demanding immediate bribe of $4 USD million for his release.. For your kind
assistance in this matter we are prepared to pay $5 USD million for simple transfer to an account
in your country, to prevent further taxation by corrupt officials. To assent, simply reply soonest
with the following information:
Your bank account number;
your address and phone numer;
your national idenification number for security pruposes.
I look forward to your kind assistance.
Sincerely,
Barrister Kofi Kukukuku
What better way to weed out possible terrorist than strip searching everyone who does not prominently display a $0.10 pewter cross.
BRILLIANT!
I don't suppose you actually work for the TSA? Sounds like you were born for that career.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
I also think all American's (from the US) should be strip searched and left to wander around the Scandinavian winter cold a few hours just to make sure they didn't bring any Big Macs with them.
Fair is fair, no?
- These characters were randomly selected.
And there was a great big fizzing sound as his device failed to accomplish it's task with was either a detonation or an incendiary intended to burn the plane out of the sky.
Since it was in his, ahem, pants or pocket he burned himself where it hurts effectively removing himself from the gene pool either by a lifetime of incarceration or more directly by incineration.
You'd like to think, ouch that's gotta hurt but then who has sympathy for someone attempting to kill other people with explosives or flames?
In a way you want the lone wolf jihadies to come out of the woodwork and fail since they illuminate their otherwise low key network connections. It's sorta like a flash light in the darkness of terror plots by individuals or states.
As far as I've heard, the so-called terrorist was just the son of the king of Nigeria, who was -finally- able to flee the country, after he succeeded to get all his money transferred to foreign banks by sending out those emails the past few years.
I assume the fireworks was just to celebrate his escape... I hope he's also going to finally pay my interest he promised, when I helped transfer those 100.000 dollars.
When you shoot a mime, do you use a silencer?
Interesting how the CNN article is better, yet linked to in the bottom only...
Mandatory bacon sandwiches before boarding the plane. Everybody wins.
Why isn't the TSA strip searching Muslim males? That's easy:
1. They couldn't identify which men are Muslim or not. It's not like there's a big sign written on each Muslim saying "I am a Muslim" (and if there were, a reasonably smart terrorist wouldn't wear it when they went to bomb a plane).
2. The First Amendment of the Constitution protects the free exercise of religion, Islam included. Treating members of a particular faith as second-class citizens would definitely violate that. And yes, there are Muslims citizens of the US, some of them currently serving the country in Iraq and Afghanistan, who are more loyal to the US and what it stands for than you are.
3. At least 99.9% of Muslim men aren't terrorists. You're arguing for strip searching about 800 million people in order to find a few thousand people. Your odds are only slightly better than strip searching the 99.99% of Christian men who aren't terrorists to find the 0.01% who are (e.g. Tim McVeigh or members of the Real IRA).
I am officially gone from
Should read, "another muslim terror clown ignites himself in attempt to bomb airplane." Why isn't the TSA strip searching muslim males coming into the US?
Because that would violate the human rights twice. Terrorists and suspected Terrorists are humans.
NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
Wait until a bomber is caught with a bomb up his ass.
You thought airport screening was bad before?
"Drop your pants and bend over!"
"Cough please!"
Earlier the article in the (UK) Daily Telegraph had a headline about his having let of a firework. This contrasted with CNN quoting some US senator saying it was a 'quite sophisticated explosive device'. The more I hear 'pop and fizz' the more credit I give The Telegraph for being on the money... except that they seem to have retracted it now (?)
... allegedly attempted to set off a small explosive device --
My family and I are at odds. My favorite story is watching a grandmother get shaken down at the airport. Knitting needles handled like they were weapons, the hand-held scanner sounding like a horse cat in heat scowling at her huge coat buttons and costume jewelry. I was appalled.
...But it was a firecracker, you know a firecracker? That even if you hold on to it, it only hurts the one holding it? You know... TNT measured in micro-grams?
...I can't even imagine what Faux News is doing with this one. They must be have a hayday.
I can hear my family now. I was wrong. AN EXPLOSIVE DEVICE son, - a bomb! I can also already hear myself -
But my best arguments weren't enough before this incident, they certainly won't be enough now. They'll probably be demanding all civil rights now be suspended "for our safety".
It was a friggin firecracker for Christ's sake.
-[d]-
>2. The First Amendment of the Constitution [...]Treating members of a particular faith as second-class citizens would definitely violate that
Right. So we treat EVERYONE like second-class citizens so it is fair.
Not that I disagree with you, I am just pissed about the whole plane security thing. Typical reaction? They will spent hundreds of million dollars to perform background checks on passengers to see if they have ever attended a fireworks show. Passengers wearing clothing depicting fireworks or who have laptops with a fireworks screen saver will be banned. If the "firecracker terrorist" wore an earring, earrings will be banned from planes. You get the idea- a bunch of pretty meaningless steps to further ruin air travel, delay passengers, violate privacy, push prices up, all so people will feel "safe" again.
http://xkcd.com/651/
Granted, the weapon of choice is a bit different...
If it works, why not? Are you going to claim some kind of Bacon allergy?
Surely people on Slashdot won't dismiss a functional idea because it makes you laugh?
Democrats or Republicans. They are both taking us to the same place and they are not afraid of us anymore.
Suicide bombers believe that all sins of martyrs will be forgiven. They can do pretty much what they want before carrying out the act.
You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
Mandatory bacon sandwiches before boarding the plane. Everybody wins.
Accompanied by a snifter of fine cognac. Or at least a shot of cheap vodka. No swallow - no fly.
Damn, I'd even pay a couple of bucks for that kind of security...
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
Just like I told people I was with on that awful Tuesday morning almost nine years ago while we sat staring at CNN, "The era of 'be cool and obey the hijackers and everything will be fine' is now over."
I was proven right not long after when the Muslim Kramer tried to light up his shoes and got his ass kicked by the passengers.
I was proven right nearly every time a passenger acts up on a plane anymore-- if it makes the news, you almost always hear that other passengers helped subdue him.
I was proven right again yesterday.
We don't need a great deal of that TSA bullshit anymore, because the passengers are on the case now. Unless someone can get enough stuff on board to instantaneously destroy the plane, the passengers are gonna react and be tripping over each other to fuck him up. And the TSA bullshit that remains should just be focused on the passengers that fit the terrorist profile, and the hell with this political correctness nonsense.
I want to walk through security without taking my shoes off, and I want to bring a goddamn bottle of Pepsi onto the plane without having to pay 4 bucks for it after I pass security.
So every muslim that still wants to fly the plane is a terrorist. You're not thinking this through ;)
Why worry about bringing Big Macs in when they are so readily available there?
Yes, it's fun to make fun of fat Americans and their fast food, but consider that you wouldn't find so many McDonalds (or any other American chains) if it weren't economically viable - meaning consumers actually want it.
And I've said this before - there are plenty of fatties waddling around Europe these days too. It's no longer and American phenomenon.
Why would I want to keep flying?
I get an Amtrak sleeper car. For only a little more than a cattle-class cross-country air ticket, I can spend few days in a moving hotel room (with shower!), and see some of the most gorgeous terrain in the entire nation. Plus, with cell phone tethering, I can actually get work done on the train. Plus, there's actual sit-down dining available.
And hell, the coach seats are more spacious than first class ones aboard all but the mightiest aircraft.
Sure, rail travel takes longer than flying, but is that such a problem when planning ahead, and when actually being on the train isn't so bad? Besides: with any luck, we'll have more high-speed rail in the future.
Expect the Authorities to milk this event for what it's worth when it comes to justifying mandatory pre-flight anal probing sessions, more mass surveillance and the outlawing of encryption they're not sure how to crack.
If it works, why not? Are you going to claim some kind of Bacon allergy?
Surely people on Slashdot won't dismiss a functional idea because it makes you laugh?
No, people are dismissing that "functional idea" because it's born out of the most disgusting type of xenophobia.
Yeah, and instead we violate human rights for everyone so therefore its fair right? All the while, most generic white people don't bring down airplanes. Really, this is akin to having a virus that runs on Windows and searching every single computer running OS X or Linux in an attempt to find it.
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
The "hero" pulled a flaming object from his pants and tossed it asside...
The passenger identified as Nigerian named Abdul Mudallad - now known as Mrs. Mudallad...
I thought Apple had fixed this problem?
Bet this guy wishes he'd bought an Android.
How is this news appropriate for Slashdot? This has nothing to do with technology or news for nerds. There are plenty of regular news outlets for news like this.
Cory Doctorow talking about cloud computing makes as much sense as George W Bush talking about electrical engineering.
Yes, things like this need to be staged to remind us that our rights need to be suspended to keep us safe. The audio-only Bin Laden tape from this year was laughable.
When hearing that the passenger's pants had "incinerated", my mind began to think of a old Christmas carol, About Chestnuts, and an Open Fire.
If you search based on ethnicity, they'll just recruit people like John Walker Lindh. Our enemies are perfectly capable of thought.
Also, look up the number of dangerous actions by non-Muslims.
If having a passenger with the last name "Seagal" on your plane doesn't foil something of a terrorist-type attack like this... then what will? Steven Seagal has been busting up terrorist plots left and right with little effort all throughout the late 80's and 90's.
Actually, you wouldn't have to strip search 800 million. Most of them can't afford to fly because almost all Muslim-majority countries are fairly poor (Especially by Western Standards) and couldn't afford to fly.
Lighten up, Francis.
It's important to remember that the goal here is not to bring down planes or buildings - it's to create turmoil and terror. Simple actions like this cause millions to billions of dollars of cost to our economy for the investment of a can of lighter fluid and a firecracker. Because of one case of semi-successful action by one clown millions of us will now be subject to ineffective additional screening, more TSA invasions of privacy and general police state tactics, more delays. I don't have the answer - but I know the ROI from a terrorist perspective is outstanding.
Why do you hate bacon goodness?
It did not sound like a firecracker in the latest reports I have been hearing on the radio.
Latest: it was a powder, plus a liquid
It was a bong, not a bomb.
You can't take the sky from me...
Breaking news politicians will investigate how this man got on the plan. In other news Gil Grissom will return for CSI House of Representatives and have it solved in 42 minutes + commercials.
Religion isn't like skin color - something you're born with that you can;t change. If everybody hates you because of yours, maybe it's a subtle hint to choose a different one.
I hear you but instead they should just put a fucking bullet in their skull and be done with it. Islam is a plague that needs whipped out.
"At least 99.9% of Muslim men aren't terrorists. You're arguing for strip searching about 800 million people in order to find a few thousand people. Your odds are only slightly better than strip searching the 99.99% of Christian men who aren't terrorists to find the 0.01% who are (e.g. Tim McVeigh or members of the Real IRA).
Yeah, but nearly 99.9% of terrorists are Muslim.
An example of Timithy McVeigh is more like .000000001% than .01%
This fizzle-bomber, alongside with couple of previous attempts (the one with shoe fire, and couple of fizzle smokers in GB), seems to somewhat follow the similar pattern I tried to explain with simple equation:
Engineering Ability = 1/Fanaticism
By 'Engineering Ability' I mean the overall knowledge, creativity, practice, experimenting, logistics, and generally effort involved in producing an rather complex technical devices.
As for the 9/11 group, it appears this was the top of the fanatics' intellectual/engineering crop, where fanaticism was sufficient just enough to match their engineering abilities, enabling them to fly, but not to takeoff/land the planes, or to save themselves. It is also beneficial (for the terrorized side), by above definition, such 'masterminds' are removed from living - at the time of their top achievement.
Subsequent attempts, while abundant in fanaticism, were mush less sophisticated in every aspect.
I like above equation because it keeps my hope in humanity a notch above the absolute zero.
'In a stark departure from the typical passenger instructions issued prior to touchdown, the same attendant added, "Your federally trained flight attendants have taken control of the situation!" according to Mr. Rosenblith'
That scares me more than someone holding a dead-man switch on a hydrogen bomb.
Oh, this is wonderful. Now we will probably be strip searched and forced to wear airline clothing. Why not just reconfigure planes to be more like cargo vehicles and put all passengers into a coma and pack and transport them like packages? :(
Yeah, and the airline clothing will consist of mental hospital style restrictive overalls with a built in tazer and a big zipper at the back to make ....wooooohoooooooohooo... surprise cavity searches easier. I don't know about you guys but I'll stick to rail, road and sea transport from now on.
Hey, I may be dark skinned, but don't compare me with Windows you insensitive clod! :)
Banu
To advocate that idea seriously, it's not enough to be an anti-Muslim bigot: you have to be anti-Semitic as well.
Yeah, but nearly 99.9% of terrorists are Muslim.
By that logic we should strip search anyone who breathes, after all 100% of terrorists breathe air.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
And this flight didn't originate in the US. The TSA is a US domestic organisation, so they have to rely on the departing countries security measures.
Offer two kinds of flights.
1. Passengers are babied all to hell: no sharp objects, no guns, nothing remotely close to looking like an explosive. Stick an air marshall or two on board to keep the peace or prevent some kung fu Al Qeada guy from stealing the plane.
2. F-all: let the passengers carry on board their guns, toothpaste, and laptops. Inform them ahead of time that the airplane will be equiped with a fail safe that can be remote detonated if the plane becomes hijacked and on board personel are unable to regain control.
2+: Get 20 Al Qeada cells to simultaneously hijack the same plane, and be sure to youtube it before detonating the device in 2.
You can get 15 minutes of fame, but you can go down in history for infamy.
Doesn't Detroit have pot on every street corner?
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. - Yogi Berra
After all the billions of dollars spent on TSA, great delays and annoyances to customers, fictitious work of thousands of employees, and the unfathomed damage to the airline industry, the one time when an actual terrorist tries to smuggle explosives on board and all this charade fails spectacularly.
The response? Add more of the same ineffective measures.
Thank goodness for the incompetence of the terrorist.
The passengers will fight the fool to his death.
People do strange things under stress. They do not always do the right things.
The aircraft is most vulnerable to the suicide bomber in take-off and landing. Passengers and crew are belted in.
The plane can be pitched steeply up. The acceleration is significant.
The bomber may take the window seat.
The party of four from the Sun and Shadows Retirement Home may be seated next. Not Bronco Billy Anderson and The Ranger From San Antonio.
None of this will matter, of course, if the primary explosive device ignites within a heart beat or so.
I have wondered idly if it would be worth trying to ignite a magnesium laptop case - or whether a potent explosive or incendiary could be impregnated into ordinary clothing.
Hydrogen Peroxide and Chapatti flour again then?
Great God Schneier has assured us that movie plot threats are nothing to be afraid of. This must therefore be a hoax.
Ramadan feasts and belly dancers.
I'm not making fun of fat Americans here.
I'm making fun of Americans who think they can use racial discrimination against anyone coming to their country, yet expect people to treat them well when they travel abroad.
So let's 'strip search every american' so they get an intimate knowledge of what they're proposing.
- These characters were randomly selected.
The people onboard can and will protect themselves.
You can't assume that the suicide bomber will give you any warning at all. The trigger man doesn't have to be the one you can see. The one you can reach.
We don't need a Muslim detector. We simply need an idiot detector. Ban all idiots from airplanes. That should solve the problem. /. is full of the best and brightest... get to it.
probably the same reason why all Christians aren't beheaded when entering a Muslim country, just a guess
[Citation needed], unless you're defining white people as automatically not terrorists (not that "nearly 99.9%" is a particularly meaningful claim). Where I live, the terrorists seem to be neo-fascist fuckwits or animal rights bombers.
But that's beside the point. What fraction of the "terrorists" do you think are men? Maybe all men should be kept off flights? I suspect you fundamentally do not grasp statistics.
If McVeigh represents .000000001% of terrorists, the human race is pretty much fucked, finding itself vastly outnumbered by the 100 billion terrorists on this planet. I wonder where they all find space to live?
# cat
Damn, my RAM is full of llamas.
Jews aren't supposed to eat bacon either.
Mmmmmmmm, bacon congac, allllgggrrhhhhh.....
--Homer J. Simpson
For a terrorism-centred country like the USA this is a very incomplete report.
No details about what was on fire or the person that attacked the supposed terrorist. See http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/5656080/__Hollandse_Jasper_pakte_terrorist__.html?p=1,1 for the raw story.
One wonders: what security-theatre will be the new norm after this incident?
From the vague and incompetent description by the news media, the explosive device sounds like Kinepak or something similar. This is a little tube filled with ammonium nitrate, aluminum powder, plus proprietary stuff; to which you take a tube of red liquid (nitromethane and dye) and pour in the top. Eventually when the liquid soaks all the way through, you have a cap-sensitive blasting agent that's about as strong as dynamite when in a confined place. There's plenty of room for "operator error", though, as this material has to be handled properly if you want it to work. And it needs the right type of blasting cap. But even if he did everything right, I don't think it's powerful enought to bring down a jet unless it hit something critical.
Your Jewish banking overlords would like a word with you.
This way please.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
The sad thing is, these pathetic incompetent terrorists are going to be responsible for causing billions of dollars to spent on extra airport security and many, many lifetimes of time will be wasted in stupid delays.
Some incompetent terrorists tries to blow up the plane, but can't build a proper electronic detonator that a 10th grader could solder together? Now we all have to be humiliated by taking our shoes off.
Some incompetent wanna-be terrorists think about a liquid bomb because they saw it in the movie Die Hard 3? Now millions of Americans have to buy overpriced beverages and/or die of thirst. Not to mention that the world's best chemists don't know a reasonable way to make a liquid bomb actually freakin work.
And now, some useless waste of space terrorist doesn't build a proper bomb using over the counter ingredients like fertilizer/diesel fuel or tannerite. (both are so easy to get that a 10th grader could order either of those explosives). No, the idiot tries to blow up an airliner with what sounds like a gunpowder bomb. And despite only managing to burn his own pants off, undoubtedly some new round of draconian security measures will kill many lifetimes of wasted time at security checkpoints.
Fact is, the United States has killed far more of it's citizens through reacting to the actions of terrorists than terrorists have ever harmed.
Even if that were true, which it's not, it doesn't really mean anything. Even if 100% of terrorists were Muslim, you still have all the problems the GP outlined. There is still no easy way to identify someone as Muslim, especially if they are trying to hide their beliefs. It's still grossly unconstitutional to single people out by religion. And most importantly, you are STILL persecuting a group of people, the vast, VAST majority of whom are innocent, in an attempt to find a few bad guys.
Why not? Because he's been masturbating? And masturbation only occurs in fertility clinics? If this really is something that bothers you, then I think you should know there's a reasonable chance that the practice is more widespread than that.
Most generic middle eastern/Muslim folks don't bring down airplanes either.
Engineering Ability = 1/Fanaticism
Apple products are not THAT bad. Most are actually quite usable.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Stops all the Mormon terrorists too.
> My blogger buddy remembered something I forgot, there is a way to ignite thermite with a liquid (potassium permanganate and glycerol? sorry for forgetting), but no idea what this was yet.
Glycerin, actually. You need to have them in proper proportions, though, or they fizzle. Potassium permanganate is used to treat expensive fish, like Koi, for some diseases. Glycerin is available at any pharmacy, so it's very possible, though I have absolutely no more idea what this was than anyone else. And the thermite reaction IS a way to create a powerful fire with only a few solid materials and a tiny bit of liquid (though there are plenty of other ways to start the reaction that don't involve liquids at all). That said... just what would the thermite do? Even if it melted through the plane (which is barely plausible, but which might be possible), it wouldn't cause a crash. And they have fire extinguishers that are, per the story, quite capable of extinguishing whatever fire he started. I know all this because I had a very nice chemistry teacher a long time ago. We did this reaction and he let me experiment with glycerin and potassium permanganate. It's sad to think that future chemistry teachers might not be given the leeway to show their students cool reactions like this, but given the mistrust these incidents breed... I can only wonder sometimes if that's their real goal.
Anyhow, I have to agree that angry passengers are the most effective security measure. Maybe that's why all the new rules seem designed to piss ordinary people off before they get on the plane?
Yeah, but nearly 99.9% of terrorists are Muslim.
By that logic we should strip search anyone who breathes, after all 100% of terrorists breathe air.
Correction: 100% of aspiring terrorists breathe; many of the... accomplished terrorist do not.
You can't take the sky from me...
... flying while wearing pants will no longer be permitted.
Have gnu, will travel.
Anti-muslim is anti-semitic by definition.
Semites are Arabs, Jews, Armeneans, Syriac, etc.
So anti-semitic is not just anti-jewish, however, there has been a tendency to highjack the word to mean only jews.
The terrorist was not a citizen. The Bill of Rights does not apply.
Imho, air transportation has degenerated to a point it doesn't make sense anymore: we build huge airports just to handle the huge airplanes. The bigger the airport, the more time we waste getting there, checking in, taxing around, etc. If you have ever landed in Dallas-Fort Worth you probably expent a good 20 minutes from touch down until the plane reaches its gate.
Just flew from Denver to Dallas: total flight time is around 90 mins, we took off to the airport at 6:30 am and I got home at 3:30 pm. That is 10 hrs travel time. Just checked google maps and same trip in car would have taken me about 14 hrs.
Maybe instead of going bigger we should go smaller, redesigning the airplane to be small and easier to fly so almost anybody could own one or even rent it.
HTML is obsolete. It's time for a new, simpler and richer markup language.
Doesn't the 5th also apply?
he is beaten silly trying to put his pants out. Remember the person who dropped their iPod down the toilet and tried to get it out and even asked the stewardess for help or explained what happened? they considered that a terrorist act until they "got to the bottom of it". Literally. There are a few other examples of how obvious things got turned into terrorist acts until the "investigation" was concluded and quietly, if you looked, you'd find that it was nothing.
I'm not saying that there isn't a chance something harmful was intended but there's lots of evidence which shows people are pretty dumb about this stuff. Erroring on the side of caution is one thing, believing the common person on a plane to understand what really happened or to let the press tell it is asking for getting it wrong. IMO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Seriously, people need to quit giving money to Nigerians princes so they can't afford this sort of crap.
Or we could move all the racist ignorant "Christians" out of the US and that will also make it much less likely that we'll be attacked.
Bacon sandwiches and no Palin supporters is a super win.
> what has me is how this guy was allowed to land ALIVE
What you obviously don't realize is that the use of deadly force in self defense is permitted only in very specific and highly restricted circumstances. For one, the attacker must have caused an immediate mortal threat to someone. In this case, he wasn't the threat; the "bomb" was the threat, so unless you saw him holding a trigger, you would not have the justification to kill him.
Second, you are not allowed to kill him if he can be subdued, as indeed happened here. Self defense argument is only applicable for as long as the attacker is an immediate threat to your life. If he's in a headlock and has burning pants, that is unlikely to be accepted in court.
Third, depending on the jurisdiction, you may also have the duty to retreat and be allowed to kill him only if he pursues you into a corner.
Fourth, whether you were justified or not in killing him, you are going to jail anyway until the trial. Good luck trying to pay your $100000 bail (yes, they really can set it that high). Then you'll have to pay for a defense lawyer to argue why you committed justifiable homicide instead of murder. Lawyers are expensive, and due to your non-zero income you probably do not qualify for getting a public attorney. All the while you're missing work, getting your face plastered all over the newspaper, and being accused of being a cold blooded murderer.
All I can say is, you better think twice before using deadly force in self defense. Maybe even thrice.
I for one will be happy to see fewer of these trans nationals within our sacred borders.
an ill wind that blows no good
No, but the 4th definitely would.
I am officially gone from
One more nut job that's allowed to live. I'm not sure others would have been so forgiving if they had the chance with that guy. Al-Queda, nutjob or otherwise.
And WTF, I'd have at least expected air marshalls would be on the flight, especially as one would expect them to be on the holidays.
Well, it turns out he really is a son of a prominent nigerian banker. I'm not making this up :)
Well...Big Mac from one continent doesn't equal one from another; heck, even cola differs.
And fatties are obviously a problem anywhere where there are groups of people. But it's certainly not an European phenomenon.
One that hath name thou can not otter
> Here's your top quality suicide pants! I use them myself!
Liar! Liar! Pants on fire!
Read this:
http://slashdot.org/faq/editorial.shtml#ed900
If you still have questions, read it again. And have a nice day.
-b
No offense, but I've stopped responding to AC's.
Was gonna reply to GP, but replying to you is less likely to get me modded troll... and the moderation on your post as I write this (+1, Funny) kind of proves my point.
It really looks like GP is right, when you only consider his words.
That's the problem. Something like that is said on TV, on the radio, in the paper, in a forum somewhere, and the sheeple hear it. Now, it's gospel; there's no changing anyone's mind about it.
Even comments like the above, which point out two (ok, at least one) good times had by Muslims, which should have been modded informative, in context, are modded funny, because people already have it in their heads that Muslims hate seeing other people having a good time.
If that fails, associate the enemy with Satan and watch the Christian crowd jump up.
Really, people, know your enemy. It's amazing how often you'll find that they're not, in fact, your enemy. Likewise, know your friend. It's equally amazing how often you'll learn who the real enemy is.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
is to have at least ten passengers on every plane, armed and willing to take out any terrorist who shows his intentions. That won't solve all the problems, but it will stop any plot that involves hostages, or just about anything other that quietly detonating a bomb with no crazy behavior other warning signs. The ten should be well-trained, so as to not make a bad situation worse.
Not a very good one.
Yes I'm sure it was _quite_ sophisticated.
Just like the bombing attempt that lead to the liquid ban.
Oh wait, that attempt involved hydrogen peroxide and tang, which at worst would mean whoever sat next to the perp would have to get a few stitches. Ever filled a soda bottle with vinegar and baking soda? Same concept.
Bombs work two ways, either via explosive force, or by creating shrapnel. A bomb that does not have sufficient explosive force to breach the cabin, and that does not have sufficient force to propel small objects throughout the cabin will NEVER be a serious threat.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It doesn't matter how many security measures the TSA puts in place in the US. All the terrorists have to do is overcome the weakest link in the chain of countries flying to the US. So unless every country implements the same measures as the US, the TSA measures only serve to annoy the hell out of the passengers. What a waste of money, and what a pain we have to go through. Also, what's up with the reactive measures?? Can't they come up with these scenarios beforehand? It's not like we're talking about evil geniuses here.
It wasn't a firecracker. Google "binary explosive"
Alternatively, there's a few videos on youtube discussing them. Here's the first one I came across that shows how to mix the powder & liquid parts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fESo6JweU20
The terrorist was not a citizen. The Bill of Rights does not apply.
I know there is a wealth of case law to contradict this, but on one reading the Bill of Rights applies to the government, insofar as it lists what the federal government of the US may not do, rather than to "the people" (does the word "citizen" even appear in the Bill of Rights? I don't believe it does, at least not in the first ten.)
Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
It is funny how many smart slashdot geeks forget their conditional probabilities - 99.9% of Muslims may not be terrorists but 99% of terrorists trying to blow up planes are most probably Muslims. Ergo, by searching Muslims you have a higher risk of catching the terrorist rather than searching, lets say, Buddhists who board the plane. These people will also certainly have a tendency of being agitated before the flight therefore careful screening of passengers with cameras a-la casino security against cheaters plus pattern recognition software a la "lie to me" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie_to_Me) could help screen many potential threats.
Should've let his nuts roast for a while before putting out the fire in his pants.
Either that or kick the fire in the groin region out.
I have an update in the dutch newspaper that said that this guy wasnt linked to al qaida and wasnt on any no-fly lists. Apparantly its the son of some former nigerian minister (70) who's religious ideas became more extreme. He studied in London but apparantly also had an american greencard or so. London police has been searching through several houses after the attack.
Well, that doesnt say much about how he was able to transport explosive materials. Schiphol (airport) says they handled correctly and that its hard to find everything explosive or something like that.
What really ticks me off about this stuff is that all airports in the world became more alert and put up alot more security. Its stupid. The attempt by some lone soul has been done, nothing major is going to happen any time soon. Someone flips out like people do everyday and everyone goes into some kind of frenzy.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Yeah, but nearly 99.9% of terrorists are Muslim.
By that logic we should strip search anyone who breathes, after all 100% of terrorists breathe air.
The terrorists will just hold their breath...
Usage: km/h for speed (kilometers per hour); kph for very slow impulses (kilopond hours).
Wrist clamps in the armrests would have prevented 9/11.
No sig today...
:(
You make it sound like your trains don't even have free internet...
</smug-bastard>
We have that here in Denmark. It's dog slow, but it's enough to browse slashdot via ssh+elinks. (Also, it's a small country over here; so cross-country trips are at most one day even with the slow trains.)
At least there is a higher chance of normal/unarmed passengers taking back control if the captors do not have superior weapons.
Actually, your link says "The bomb tore out a two square foot portion of the cabin floor, revealing the cargo hold underneath, but the fuselage of the plane stayed intact." However, the article does speculate that it might have blown a hole in the fuselage if it had exploded in a different way.
I wonder how long it will be before someone posts a foaming-at-the-mouth diatribe against Dick Cheney. . ?
Oh.
What?
You'd think they'd never thought about drinking or eating the bomb. Drugs-- eat them; but nobody ever thinks about bombs even when they won't allow any liquids when a LIQUID is easier to eat. Sure, it might be poison but you only need to last a little while.
Suppositories?? You'd think some old politicians would know about those.
Won't end until we are naked, shoeless and have an x-ray and/or an anal probe.
No imagination. Does anybody have any imagination anymore? Only crackpots are going to try jets and they already WON that battle, they have enough sense to try something else next time.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
Once again, the Three Stooges branch of Al-Qaeda demonstrates an epic FAIL.
And their TSA counterparts accomplish the same.
And for this I've had to surrender my shampoo at a security checkpoint, remove my shoes and submit to a pat-down search? I feel MUCH safer now.
This doesn't sound like a hijacking. This sounds like a (failed) bombing. If it went as planned, the moment the terrorist lit the bomb there'd be boom and mid-air disintegration instead of smoke and flame. Not a lot of time for other passengers to overpower and prevent the terrorist from carrying out his plan.
Our government responds like a bull in a china shop to stuff like this.
Now, you have a whole plane load of murder experts. A recent event demonstrates that a trained murderer is good at his specialty, even when the intended victims are trained murderers themselves. In the quest for safety and security, a good offense is not the best defense.
Fuck Islam and all of its misogynist pig followers.
Virtually all of the discussion here (at the moment 450 comments) regards the US Airlines security response and the various and sundry ways it's stupid.
Which, really, is the least important, least interesting, most overdone subject on Slashdot, but never ceases to be the only thing that occupies Slashdotters minds, as though serious, critical thinking about what happened is beyond you.
Why are so many posts with factual errors modded up?
"These guys are not stupid"
They blow themselves and others up for political/religious ideology.
That is as stupid as it gets.
Why are so many posts with factual errors modded up?
Christians and Atheists get along better than Muslims and ANYONE. Let's eradicate them all now and we'll have a better tomorrow.
Seriously, these freaks are hellbent on killing us, seems like an act of war to me.
I appreciate the putting of Christians in quotes, but really, if we got rid of all the racists, we could probably work with all the ignorant that remain, and I doubt any remaining non-racist and less ignorant people who call themselves "Christians" without at least understanding the story of the Good Samaritan, would be a large enough group to matter. Hey, are we sure the remaining racists can't grow out of it? How about we just fix America (and anywhere else) until they are such heavens the racists want to move elsewhere on their own?
(Hey, my big invisible sky guy wants me to treat everybody as I would like to be treated. On a cycle that was invented way before, by the big invisible moon lady, he's gonna' be reborn again to beat the big invisible guy with the scythe, and remind us all death is no big deal. Oh, and he took over the big invisible underearth guy with the adversarial job's position (you know, the b.i.u.g some say has horns and a pitchfork), so there's no one left to accuse you before my big invisble sky guy's dad. I would add that my big invisible sky guy wasn't born yesterday, but, uhm, now's not a good day for that - they moved the party to when all the older big invisibles had a solstice holiday, I swear).
Who is John Cabal?
Or is he the trouser terrorist? How soon will TSA start requiring you to remove your trousers before you can board your flight?
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
I would have chosen a different word...
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
I've risen to your challenge - unfortunately, the idiot detector I've designed only works if the person has a Slashdot ID. It is, however 100% reliable at spotting that particualr self confessed idiot, and has no false positives, and runs on mammalian grade hardware. I'll need a grant to expand the system.
Oh, and your sig is 'overrated', or I disagree with it, or maybe both. (Your post is fine, just the sig). "Overated is a set, which overlaps in part with the set of "I disagree", in classic Venn diagram A-AB-B fashion. That's not identity. Now, why don't I want to let you get on an airplane?
Who is John Cabal?
While Islam started out among the Semetic Arabs, it is no longer a semetic religion. By and far the vast majority of muslims are any and everything but Semites. So no anti-muslim is not anti-semetic by definition.
Well I loled.
Yeah, but nearly 99.9% of terrorists are Muslim.
I think the Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland might question that stat. Many Western European countries have decades of leftist/communist terrorists to add in, and the Japanese can toss in Aum Shiriko and the JRA to the numbers as well. Sendaro Luminoso, FARC, ELN, Tamil Tigers, ELF, ALF... need I go on?
Just because islamic terrorists are making most the news right now does not make them the 99% majority of terrorists. They may have the majority but it isn't 99%.
I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
The TSA causes so much hassle in the US that it is a drain on the country. Some countries, like Australia, have recently started loosening their restrictions (I hear that metal cutlery is back).
Imagine you're a terrorist organisation. You find some idiot willing to do this. If they succeed, great. If they fail, then you're still going to inconvenience the entire travelling world in the middle of one of the busiest times of the year.
Look at the lists of new 'safety rules' that have been instituted. For Al-Qaeda, that's not a bad consolation prise.
All of the recent reports are claiming the "explosive device" contained PETN.
For those of you that don't remember, PETN was a component in the bomb that brought down TWA 800, killing all 230 on board.
"Firecracker" my ass...
As near as I can tell, our system is so full of holes that we should just stop worrying about it.
A sufficiently endowed organization can get any decent quality of hydrogen peroxide they desire, and anybody's uncle can get decent quality acetone. Neither of these will change. Given a little care, a large bundle of bombs can be made to look like laptop batteries. I assume the new format Macbook Pros make this even easier, as large normal batteries can have strange form factors. Any terrorist cell can fly a few dozen people from any few dozen cities to directly (or indirectly) converge on a central city. Each individual passes through security with an innocuous looking thing that's not detectable on X-Ray or modern bomb detectors. All it takes is one person to take everyone's "batteries" and assemble them in a backpack in a bathroom. A simple timer, GPS, or even radio activation can take sufficiently determined justice driven passengers out of the equation.
I would fly any day of the year, feeling as secure having faced the full onslaught of the security theater as I would if we all could walk on the plane with as much security screening as a train.
In 1997, I made it through airport security once with steel toed boots on. The metal detector went off, and they wanded me with my boots on. On that date, I recognized the security theater for what it was, and started seeing all the many and various security holes every day. It's insane to think we're impacting security by denying lock blades or water bottles. As long as each individual or family isn't seated in an individual explosive proof canister (ref http://adland.tv/content/vw-polo-viral-punchline-kills-uk ), there are security problems inherent in public mass air transportation.
A simple search for matchhead bombs on youtube starts to suggest the cheapness of rudimentary bombs (honestly, this is a fun 15 minutes). From there, the biggest problem is figuring out an innocuous form factor for your chemistry of choice.
I am a non-Muslim from an Islamic country, and I can tell you that the hatreds towards United States and the West from the Muslim is real !
I still don't understand why they hate you guys so much --- but then, most of the things they do are way too mind-boggling, like blowing up themselves --- but please let me re-iterate, the hate towards you guys is REAL !
So be careful, okay?
In your country maybe. In Iraq and Afghanistan there are literally thousands of American/English/European christian cross-wearing terrorists sent there by an illiterate bible thumper.
So, first we had the shoe bomber. Now, we have the butt bomber... X-) The question now is, what will the TSA do to make our traveling experience more interesting in light of this?
I remember reading about some town in the southern United States where it is mandatory for all adults in town to carry a gun. I guest their rationale is that if anyone were to try to perpetrate an armed crime, they would not live long enough to accomplish it. Sort of like going into a cop bar and trying to stage a holdup... doh! Carry this theme forward to air travel - well, the hijackers would not get far, but the cabin walls would likely be so perforated as to kill everyone by explosive decompression! Oh well, can't win them all!
Throw the fucker out the airlock.
Seriously, if he's a servant of Allah, then He will take care of the landing, right?
Did you ask one? Wouldn't he have been dead when you asked him?
remove the air then.
fantastic! you are a genius. However I think I can improve on it. Mandatory bacon sandwiches _and a free beer_ before boarding the plane. Everybody wins.
I guess you are saying that to muslims...but I got a question to you...say you were saying that to jews considering the holocaust, would it not be a giant hint for them to change their religion?
And making that statement would that not make you a shitty bigot and anti-semite? But hey, anything goes when it is against the muslims, right?
the solution is extremely simple, ban anyone with an islamic sounding name from ever boarding any plane, no matter if he is the king of Saudi Arabia, no islamos on board, no more terrorists in the air.
"But hey, anything goes when it is against the muslims, right?"
Theo Van Gogh. Summer 2005 Muslim mayhem in Paris. WTC attacked - twice! Danish Mohammed cartoons (fuck his rotten soul). Wife beating. female clitoral mutilation. Yeah, I'd say the mudslums have earned the bad reputation...
Not in quantities you could get onto a plane, afaik. I'm not aware of the smallest quantity of ANFO which will detonate, but I suspect it to be well north of 1lb, and pretty obvious in carry on luggage. Even if you grant that he somehow carried on more than 3 oz of (clearly banned) fuel oil, ANFO requires a detonation for initiation, and that means getting a blasting cap on board as well as everything else. It certainly didn't sound like a blasting cap.
Now, the GP may have been onto something with the KMNOx and glycerine, as neither are particularly unusual, and small quantities can be made to react. Then again, it's a pretty mundane fire that can be set with it. I played around with some years ago when I dabbled in amateur pyrotechnics, and it's neat to watch, but pretty low key. About all it would do on a plane in start a small fire. Water should slow down or extinguish the reaction, since it would dilute the constituents and raise the total heat required to sustain the reaction.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
I read that the explosive went off in the terrorists lap. There was little info other than reports that the fire burned his legs. We can only hope he eliminated himself from the gene pool.
And there's far more Christians serving in the Middle East who are more loyal to the US and what it stands for than you are, you insensitive clod!!
Just stop allowing brown people on planes.
Or ship them as packages thru UPS. then the only ones they'd blow up are other brown people. and some mail.
What can brown do for you? Move your terrorists around!
Yeah, yeah i know..... but i was going there anyway.
[sniff sniff] ChestNutz roasting on an open fire..... kinds of puts you in the holiday spirit doesn't it????
On another note... AP scrubs news releases of having mention of certain words..... like 'muslim'
FragHARD or don't frag at all
You get the idea- a bunch of pretty meaningless steps to further ruin air travel, delay passengers, violate privacy, push prices up, all so people will feel "safe" again.
Depends on what you consider meaningless (not that what you're saying is totally wrong). But, consider this:
Is it the people on the plane whom they want to feel safer? Or, is it the people on the ground (in other words, the much vaster and inclusive, voting public)? Furthermore, is it lives that are being protected? Or, rather symbols of a republic and the essential system of law and order on which it is based?
So far, they've unveiled absurd new rules. I'm highly disappointed, and I voted for Obama. I've also voted for Janet Napolitano. Not impressed with her leadership, either.
Someone who would put a stop to the anti-passenger rules and invest in real security measures (e.g. armed guards) could cause me to rethink my voting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_hijackings#2000s
Apparently none were flights to or from the States, the only place on Earth where a hijacked plane is likely to be used as a weapon.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
I also think all American's (from the US) should be strip searched and left to wander around the Scandinavian winter cold a few hours just to make sure they didn't bring any Big Macs with them.
Fair is fair, no?
As soon as American visitors start killing your innocents with hamburgers, yup.
... by the father of this terrorist. Nagging ordinary citizens and letting go actual terrorists - what the f**k is going on?
Ceterum censeo Microsoft esse delendam.
Now his impression of Al Pacino keeps running through my head: "liar liar... pants on FIRE!"
Get off my launchpad!
Some of that stuff doesn't get X-rayed. Imagine what a self-propelled wheelchair could contain.
So no vegetarians will be flying then I suppose?
You can't handle the truth.
And most importantly, you are STILL persecuting a group of people, the vast, VAST majority of whom are innocent, in an attempt to find a few bad guys.
Which is exactly one of the things the real terrorists want, as it fuels their cause/business.
Linux user since early January 1992.
in 1987 by North Korean agents, so liquid explosives do actually present a potential threat.
Some more information about liquid explosives:
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-1009_22-149180.html/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Flight_858/
Richard Reid set off a bomb in a shoe, and now all passengers must run their shoes through the TSA scanner. Umar Farouk starts a foundation conflagration in his undies and now all passengers will have to run their knickers and delicate DKNYs through the TSA scanner. Now if you're on a flight with the Laker cheerleaders, it might be an acceptable tradeoff, but it offers all kinds of unacceptable cellphone camera opportunities, so cellphones will also be banned. I can't wait until some yahoo has a pipebomb surgically implanted in his johnson. What kind of security screening procedures will the TSA institute after that?
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
The real message from the attempt is that current measures are already more than adequate and that passenger intervention is by far the most flexible and effective method.
After all, in the end the man hurt only himself and he is in custody. By all reasonable measures he failed miserably. If not for the various passenger dehydration policies, the fire probably would have been out even faster. While some of the passengers got quite a fright, they DID get to skip the 30 minute circling the airport hassle as a sort of compensation.
Of course, federal authorities are now fighting hard to give the man a consolation prize. It seems his pointless little gesture may have a lasting impact on air travel after all.
And anti-Hindu, anti-Buddhist, anti-vegan/vegetarian etc. Pretty much a foam at the mouth Christian, I suppose.
(I'd have said foam at the mouth atheist, but most atheists tend to be pretty rational, and more on the vegan/vegetarian side of the fence...)
Carry this theme forward to air travel - well, the hijackers would not get far, but the cabin walls would likely be so perforated as to kill everyone by explosive decompression!
Only in a movie! In the real world, which is not subject to "Hollywood physics", the pilots are going to notice the sound of gunfire long before it is possible to put enough fairly small circular holes in the fuselage to cause the cabin altitude to rise.
Best to sit down and fasten your seatbelt, so only the hijackers will be cracking their heads on the ceiling. I can't find a maximum descent speed for an A330, but -1g (with the slats retracted) is possible.
Seriously? The IRA, Basque separatists, LTTE - they're all Muslims, eh? What about Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber? They're Muslims, too?
And if individuals do it it is terrorism and if nation states do it, it is "war"? Please turn off Fox news and try educating yourself about the world for a change.
Dood, you responded to the wrong post.
But, I think I should point out to you that the LTTE isn't much of an example any more since they, and probably a hundred thousand other Tamils, have been massacred out of existence recently.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Seriously, the guy killed a bunch of people, that's not terrorism ITS_KILLING_PEOPLE. He wasn't trying to scare, he was trying to kill.
NOT EVERY CRIME IS FUCKING TERRORISM!!!
And anti-Hindu, anti-Buddhist, anti-vegan/vegetarian etc. Pretty much a foam at the mouth Christian, I suppose.
Sounds perfect for U.S., then.
Mandatory bacon sandwiches before boarding the plane. Everybody wins.
I realize this post is tongue-in-cheek, but for anyone taking the idea (and a slew of related ones) seriously, I'd like to refer them to the primary source:
Sura 2, Ayat 173 "Al-Baqara" ("The Cow"):
"He hath only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of Allah. But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- then is he guiltless. For Allah is Oft-forgiving Most Merciful."
How much the exception can be stretched is a matter of discussion, but I'd like to remind that suicide is strictly prohibited in Islam as well, yet suicide bombers are still there - they just weasel out of it by arguing that it's not really suicide proper, but just a "suicidal attack" (since throwing oneself at enemy swords, if that it advantageous to your cause, was never prohibited). These same people would likely consider the exception towards prohibition of pork to apply as well in these circumstances.
and shots of whiskey.
I agree with much of your post, except the part about the pre-privatisation status of British Rail as a "mess". There is a widely held view in the UK that the privatisation of British Rail was a very costly mistake; the quality of service to the public did not improve at all or as promised, and in fact, deteriorated badly; meanwhile government subsidies and ticket prices jumped.
1. The privatisation has always been false in the sense that the businesses it created were never viable to stand on their own feet and required, and still slurp up, ongoing, huge government subsidies and also other corrupt, hidden measures of support. Assets were also transferred to private owners wrongly way below market value.
2. The new private owners cut costs to the bone - and beyond - to boost their profits. There were many deteriorations caused by this cost cutting. For example, the average number of carriages per train was reduced, sometimes by half or more, to cut costs, but inevitably this resulted in gross overcrowding, with standing room only for many passengers, resulting in far worse injuries in crashes (of which there were suddenly several lethal ones after privatisation, again all caused, according to the official accident investigations, by cost cutting that led to inadequate maintenance).
3. With immense stupidity and greed, the new private owners cut the number of drivers to save money and increase profits, but then found there were train cancellations and late services because there were not enough drivers available. Went back to about the same number BR knew was required.
4. Certain promises by prospective private owners to upgrade the infrastructure were broken.
5. Trains and stations were invaded by gangs of "revenue protection officers" trained to crack down on any signs or fantasies of ticket evasion, no matter the truth. The aggressive pursuit of profit led in many cases to stupid and vicious enforcement - the teenager arrested (fingerprinted, DNA taken) because his genuine ticket (for the same journey he had been making for years before privatisation) was not valid for the final station of his journey at that time of day and neither the ticket sale officers nor the ticket inspectors at the station entrance told him this crucial fact! The boy arrested because he pulled the emergency train stop lever (wasting precious time and money of the company) when some yobs started setting fire to seats on the train. Lawyer arrested because he forgot to carry his season ticket. Mother arrested when she briefly entered station platform to give her child the money needed to make the rest of the journey. Etc, etc.
6. Certain small creditors to BR ruthlessly left high and dry by various sneaky measures deliberately included against a backdrop of ignored complaints in the government's privatisation scheme.
7. To increase profits, maintenance of infrastucture was no longer done in house by BR, and was contracted out to a loose, uncooperating, incompetent network of third parties who claimed to be able to achieve the same standards for less money and unsurprisingly didn't. This compromised safety and caused several accidents with deaths and seriously injured casualties; crash investigations found a major contributing factor was poor maintenance.
8. Enormous executive pay packages in exchange for delivering invisible improvements throughout the service. When questioned about this and the then recent lethal train crashes in front of a studio audience on (almost) live TV, Blair was so embarrassed he couldn't for once answer the question properly and then instructed his ministers to part-reverse the privatisation by quickly re-nationalising one of the blameworthy component companies, RailTrack. The private owners screamed and complained all the while about the "unfairness" of it all, and went to court very expensively with costs all paid by ...
Goto http://www.lapbomber.com for the latest updates on this weird incident! Comment on articles you find interesting.