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Android Phone Demand Up 250%, iPhone Down
CWmike writes "A 'monstrous' jump in demand for Android-equipped smartphones has turned the market upside down, according to a retail pollster. Of the people who told ChangeWave Research in a mid-December survey that they planned to buy a smartphone in the next 90 days, 21% said they expected to purchase an Android phone. That number represented a 250% increase over the 6% that pegged Android as their mobile OS of choice when ChangeWave last queried consumers' plans in September. 'That change rivals anything that we've seen in the last three years of the smartphone market,' said Paul Carton, ChangeWave's director of research, adding that the sudden surge in consumer interest in Android had 'roiled' the market. 'This is an indication that Android has finally caught consumer interest,' added Carton, who cited the recent advertising campaign for the Motorola Droid smartphone as the reason why interest in Android has skyrocketed. Android's leap translated into good news for Motorola and HTC, the most prominent makers of Google-powered handsets, with the former reaping most of the benefit. Motorola's share of smartphone purchases in the next 90 days shot up from 1% in September to 13% in December. Carton tagged the company's Droid as the reason. '[It's] the first increase for Motorola we've seen in three years,' Carton said." Here is the ChangeWave report.
Yes... share growth is a useless metric for a new offering. Whats 350% of nothing? Still nothing. How about giving us the market share instead.
Like Mac in the desktop/laptop/netbook market? Or like Safari in browser market?
That must mean Android sales skyrocketed from 2 to 7 users! :D
On a more serious note: I love Google products, if only they'd market them better they'd be at the top with the iPhone easily.
The survey could mean lots of things without this bit of confirmation data. Sales are going in the same direction as the survey.
Home of The Suki Series
Notice that this wasn't a report of 250% sales growth... it was a report of 250% increase in a poll asking "What cell phone do you PLAN to buy?"... not quite the same thing.
The number that changed a lot was people who were planning to buy a new smartphone in the next 90 days. Of these, 21% said they prefer a phone running Android. (That's up from 6% in September.) 28% said they prefer an iPhone, down from 32% in September. Windows Mobile and Palm's percentages also shrank over the last 3 months.
Portable versions of Firefox, GIMP, LibreOffice, etc
Googles market model is better. Multiple phone designs on any carrier that will have them. It's really that simple. The design of the OS is better than iPhones competitors. Though, I do think the application openness is going to bite them in butt over the long term. Allowing background applications from any provider looks good on paper, but in practice is going to create a bot network.
If Apple went with all carriers who wanted them and released a handful of branded designs, it's sales would soar.
Burn Hollywood Burn
I cannot wait to see, try, and then buy the Google Phone. I hope that the rumors are true.
What I would like even more would be the Google counterpart to the iPod Touch: the Android palmtop computer without the phone (but with the camera, please).
... now back to the bit mines.
Verizon recently (end of December) had a deal to get a free Droid Eris with the purchase of a Droid. Perhaps those polled were aware of that deal.
Isn't apple basically mid release cycle on the current gen iPhone? I know, if I was considering getting an iPhone, I would probably just wait until the next version came out.
How many more top level comments (with next to zero content) are you going to make?
We all get that you love Apple sooooo much.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
"Desire for half-decent non-AT&T smartphone is less saturated than desire for AT&T iPhone by those who haven't already got one."
I think this finding is more related to that fact that the only half-decent smartphone is currently limited to iPhone on AT&T. (Sorry Blackberry/Palm/HTC---no lightsaber app means that you're less than half decent B-)
Imagine that! Competition works! If regulators would only get that through their heads...with enough time, consumers will win in the end as a result of competition.
Maybe Apple will finally get it through their heads and open up the iPhone for real development; doubt it though...
I often wondered what was so special about the iPhone. I have never got a satisfying answer.
One of the "features" I loathe about it is the fact that typical users including so called "light users" have to charge it daily. Insane...where is the time for such attention?
I have a Macbook, Mac Mini and an iPod Touch, and I opted for a Droid. I think the #1 reason I went with the Droid was because it wasn't AT&T. But a close second was the fact that music was drag and drop and that it could run background apps. Overall, I am really please with the purchase. Ordered the multimedia dock today, so I can use it as an alarm clock.
Don't you mean mid-June? I was in the market for a new phone last spring and it was all vapor and smoke about what, if any, "new" iPhone was coming out on the market.
I ended up gaming the system a little -- my wife went freelance and needed a new phone, so I bought an iPhone for myself and just got her a number with no contract and threw the sim card in an old RAZR.
When the 3GS came out, I got that with her contract/discount and gave her the 3G iPhone I'd had for about two months.
I'm sure I'll be annoyed with envy at the new shiny in June, but what the heck.
Could someone really quietly tell me the fastest crash-course kind of way to learn all of that before the development market gets saturated? A book that covers all three? It's .. it's for my friend who's never coded anything from scratch except for a PRE tagged section of a web page.
Calling out bogus battery capacity claims.
I personally own an iPhone, and I like it.. despite the drawbacks. But I'm considering an Android phone next for some of the above reasons myself. I will weigh the pros and cons carefully and decide at the time -- if Polled, right now I might say that I'd get an Android phone next, if just because the idea is more appealing to me. This could be partly why interest in the iPhone is *potentially* waning... people see there are alternatives out there.
I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
My Verizon contract was up, and my family needed new phones. We ended up with 4 Android phones, 3 HTC Eris's, and a Droid. Verizon sold a LOAD of them over the holiday season, mostly due to rebates and discounts. The 4 phones, normally over $600 even with a contract, ended up costing me $200.
The first reseller we went to (after they were very helpful during our selection process) had run out by the week before Christmas, and had to send us to a Verizon store. They had plenty, and they were going out the door fast.
That is a fair statement to make... sort of... usually.
But when Apple releases a NEW iPhone, the numbers will change again, especially if the next iPhone contains even more power, reliability or some feature that people have been begging for. Android is not a threat to iPhone "yet" but there is a chance that it could be one. Apple's iGadgets are in a class of their own and always have been. My saying this might make me sound like an Apple supporter or fanboy. I'm not. I have no use for Apple. But I have to acknowledge reality as I see it, and there it is.
But I think that people who are comparing Androids to iPhones and are finding that they can do more with the droids, functionality may well win over the brand recognition of Apple. I really don't feel confident enough to issue a prediction either way, but it is unquestionably an interesting market battle to watch.
The original iPhone was announced in January 2007 but didn't get released until June 2007. The iPhone 3G and iPhone 3GS got announced/released in June/July time frame in 2008 and 2009 respectively.
So the trend is to refresh the iPhone every year mid-year.
I doubt any iPhone hardware update with be announced in January given this trend.
Sorry, there is no "19 days to being an expert programmer" book for beginners. Those type of books are meant for people who already know how to program, and simply need to learn the syntax of a new language.
No, if you "demand" something you want it right now. "Planning" isn't the same.
250% of what? 1? 10? 10,000?
Let's not use hyperbole like "skyrocketed" without actual numbers shall we? Even skim read TFA, don't see the actual numbers there either.
Smells like astroturf. Smells a LOT like astroturf.
I've nothing against Android, but I've never ever seen anyone with a phone that uses it. Have, however, seen 100s with iphones.
As I joked about elsewhere... it's easy to get a positive infinite percentage of growth when you're starting at zero, you just need one. Apple has the most to lose right now because they have the largest share. The only other player in the survey to move up was Palm, and that was a mere 1% on the chart. Everybody else lost when Google moved in, which is kind of unavoidable because their percentage had to come from somewhere.
Why wasn't the graph in hard numbers rather than percents?
"I feel a great disturbance in the Jobs, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly cut off."
Good finds!
Imagine that! Competition works!
I hear that's why the US has such fast internet and cheap, reliable telephony service, both with excellent customer service of course, especially compared to the EU and Japan.
</sarcasm>
Sorry if I'm pushing it here. It's just striking to hear about the abuse US ISP and telecomms customers (apparently) have to put up with, compared to what I experience in Denmark.
On the other hand, your government isn't doing much better than failing markets. For instance, take a listen to a recent EconTalk episode about market failures and government failures at http://www.econtalk.org/archives/2009/12/winston_on_mark.html
In summary: it's the lobbyists.
If I recall correctly, the guest, Winston, only looked at government failure in the US. Extrapolating from there to government failure in general might be a wee bit hasty.
The really provocative statement would be that right-wingers don't get that government intervention is the right solution in theory, what left-wingers don't get is that it rarely works in practice, and the elephant in the room nobody is doing anything about is that the lobbyists screw up The Right Thing, making it Not The Right Thing, and so nothing works (as well as it could).
I noticed that Verizon became pretty aggressive and anti-AT&T in their campaigns recently. I am sure that helped the sales of Droids too considering that Iphones are only available on AT&T.
Probably, because that's what "demand" implies?
Maybe, but while opinion surveys can be interesting, they aren't very good indicators of actual behavior. If I asked 4,000 people whether they planned to buy a second Bible in the next 90 days -- for their children -- I bet a lot of people would answer yes. How many of them would actually go out and do it?
Part of "demand" in the economics sense is not just wanting something, but willingness to pay for something. It doesn't matter what people say; if nobody is actually buying a product, there's no demand.
It's also extremely important to understand the sampling method in a study like this (which is probably why so many of them neglect to discuss their methods). Where did the people surveyed come from? How was the sample selected? At random? How random? From the phone book? From a Web site? Were the participants self-selecting (i.e. you're only surveying people who were demonstrably interested to begin with)? Obtaining a representative statistical sample may not be a "science," as such, but it's darn close.
There are also such things as leading questions. What if the question on this survey wasn't phrased the way it's stated in the report? What if they just asked, "Who is your preferred smartphone operating system vendor: Apple, RIM, Symbian, Microsoft, or Google?" Apple fans would immediately say Apple; everybody else would say Google. The typical consumer doesn't realize that when you're asking them if they want a smartphone with a RIM OS, what you're really asking them is whether they want a BlackBerry. (And judging from my own, purely anecdotal survey -- looking around me when I'm waiting in line for something -- a lot of people do want one.)
Some people also answer "yes" to surveys because they're secretly hoping they will get something for free. Sometimes it's not so secret; what if everybody who participated in this survey got a $20 off coupon for any smartphone they wanted from Verizon. Which phone would they be thinking about while they did the survey?
They say "lies, damn lies, and statistics" because it's easy to make numbers say pretty much anything you want -- especially if you aren't sticking to sound statistical principles. In my experience, fly-by-night marketing firms seldom do. It doesn't pay the bills.
Breakfast served all day!
So how many here does not know, that stories like this are marketing hype designed to make you want the mentioned product?
I've seen about ten variations of this story in the last couple of days on different sites. Every one with oddly different numbers.
If Google can license the Microsoft ActiveSync and make it work as well as Apple's iPhone... then I will be on board 100%
Yes... share growth is a useless metric for a new offering. Whats 350% of nothing? Still nothing. How about giving us the market share instead.
I guess it's the ultimate embodiment of the "new is good" sentiment. The newer the better, and not-yet-released is so good it breaks your brain!
Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
The 250% increase is in "demand," not sales or market share. That is, how many people planning on buying a phone soon are planning on Android? This statistic is unrelated to market share, and is perfectly valid for both old and new offerings.
From the article, 21% were going for an Android phone, compared to 28% for the iPhone.
When the market for the iPhone is saturated, then of course it's market share will drop when some new do-dad comes out. I'm not a fan of anything that apple produces, because you can't hack it the way you want. I think the android is shaking up the market of smartphones because you can (if you know how) hack around on it to do what you want. Same thing with the HTC/Windows phones. Just look how popular the XDA-Developers site is.
For a brand new product vs an iconic powerhouse, that is little short of amazing.
You are welcome on my lawn.
They did give the market share. 21% in the surveys, 6% now. Is even reading TFS not fashionable now?
Verizon Finally Gets Credible SmartPhone
Seriously folks, this is pretty self-evident stuff. Verizon has been suffering for the lack of a credible smart phone offering (yeah, yeah WinMo and Palm Centros don't really count). Now they have one. Many cell customers are wedded to Verizon as a carrier and won't switch. Voila! Interest in Android spikes. What will really get interesting is when consumers can choose between Android, Palm Pre and iPhone all from the same carrier. Which will they choose then? That's what I'm waiting for.
Probably, because that's what "demand" implies?
Part of "demand" in the economics sense is not just wanting something, but willingness to pay for something. It doesn't matter what people say; if nobody is actually buying a product, there's no demand.
In addition to desire and willingness, ability to pay is also crucial in the economics sense.
Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
Lets see em make an app to fix this!
"Computers are a lot like Air Conditioners" "They both work great until you start opening Windows"
Place and growth are 2 different things. Much like speed and acceleration.
The only downside is many of the manufactures now violate the GPLv2 copyright either by refusing to release the kernel sources or dragging their feet for months... For example HTC keeps violating the GPL with their phones... go ask HTC specifically for the Kernel (not the Android software) for their CDMA phones and they'll either point you to the GSM version of the kernel, claim that their kernel modifications fall under the Apache license, are proprietary or claim that Sprint and/or Verizon have to release it.
To Motorola, to get Android this type of attention. They advertised the Droid on their homepage, and I think that must have just about been the first time that any product had been advertised on their home page. Not only that, it seems like the next version of Android (2.0) has some sort of exclusivity to Motorola for now (at the moment AFAIK Droid is the only device that *officially has Android 2.x).
Wow, so demand for a phone that has sold tens of millions of units in the 2.5 years it's been out is leveling off, and demand for a newer phone that has sold far fewer units is growing? Stop the presses!
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
"Did you know that disco record sales were up 400% for the year ending 1976? If these trends continues... AAY!"
Windows Mobile is on history's exit ramp.
Couldn't this be all of us poor saps who aren't on AT&T (in the US, of course) finally getting a shot at picking up a nice smartphone that's not a Blackberry? Think about all the people who want iPhone like functionality, but don't want to switch to AT&T. There's plenty of them, and this is probably them finally having their day. No other smartphone, has come close to the iPhone in terms of hype-crazed-madness for the phone like the revised android platform. That's not to say there aren't other good smartphone platforms out there (Palm, RIM, whatever the hell else people use these days), I think these are just skewed numbers from non AT&T customers finally pouncing on a cool set of phones.
I would have answered YES to an android in December. Now, the answer would be NO. Not unless I can replace all the Google apps with something else.
What changed my mind? Eric Schmidt, CEO of Google..
This is the same guy who had Google blackball CNET after they published some of his personal info.
The guy's a hypocrite who simply can't be trusted any more. I don't need my phone spying on me for some guy who thinks his personal info is privileged, and yours and mine isn't.
Notice that this wasn't a report of 250% sales growth... it was a report of 250% increase in a poll asking "What cell phone do you PLAN to buy?"... not quite the same thing.
Also worth noting is the complete lack of any mention of the margin of error. And the report also doesn't really explain what is losing out to Android. The summary implies it's the iPhone, but TFA says that iPhone demand went from 32% to 28% - only a small fraction of the 15 points that Android picked up. From the original story the numbers are:
iPhone from 32 (Sept 09) fell to 28 (Dec 09)
Android from 6 rose to 21
Blackberry from 17 stayed basically stable at 18
Windows Mobile dropped from 9 to 6
Palm OS/Web OS dropped from 6 to 3.
That leaves 30% unaccounted for in the September numbers and 24% unaccounted for in the December numbers.
not really. Iphone is wearing off in it's popularity and android is picking up bigtime with community support. Unless iphone starts actually letting people enjoy the same features across all phones, they're not going to pick up squat this time, dependent on how much of their marketshare/steam is taken away by android.
currently on an android phone whether a manufacturer allows a feature or not it can basically be guaranteed on the phone due to open source work on the phone. Bluetooth file transfer? A2dP? wireless tethering? exchange server sync?
the only things left is blackberry sync, and once that's gone, RIM will lose massive marketshare too.
Lots of the technology is still nascent and is really the only reason it hasn't picked up further.
"product gets wider availability and its market share increases, old product in same category has not been "rethought" in some time and loses some of its huge market share" .. the news is not that it happens.. but rather what the "old entrenched product" does to compete with the upstart..
Innovate out in front, react from behind, or bury head in sand and collect fat cash until suddenly they are no longer in business they thought they where in? (apple has done all 3 of the above in the past!)
Do you realize that the iPhone only has 4% of the market? Even so, I think the presence of the Android is great, because maybe it will cause Steve J. and his flock of ass-ki...er, fans, to stand back and realize that the iPhone, while quite cool conceptually, suffers from some very lame design issues. Now all Google needs is a phone-less device that can subscribe to a carrier's broadband-only plan.
Having been part of planning and running numerous focus groups and targeted surveys over the last 10 years, I can say with certainty, at least in the realm of software, that what people say they would likely do vs. what actually happens is usually off by a significant margin. Our rule of thumb was cut the numbers in half, then do it again. In other words, in my personal experience, in the real world, only about 25% of the people that say they are a likely buyer actually buy anything. And that's on a good day.
I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
Yes and no. The iPhone hasn't changed much since it's inception. It was huge when it was new. Now the improvements are incremental. Makes sense that a new phone with similar capabilities, a fresh face, new paint, and unknown possibilities will evoke keen interest. Time will tell of course. Until the actual sales numbers, rather than intent are in, this is worrisome, but hardly crushing news for Apple.
I just hope the people buying these phones do the research. In Canada, Rogers (one of the big three cell providers here) has said that they're not going to provide an upgrade for the HTC Magic (literally the same phone as the myTouch3G) to Android 1.6 - they think 1.5 provides a "good user experience" and so they're not going to bother. Just how do you think all these people buying new phones are going to feel when they get it home and discover a bunch of the bells and whistles they've been promised don't work? And there are already apps out there that require 1.6. That's one big difference between Android phones and the iPhone - Rogers is supporting the iPhone.
Source: http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/12/19/rogers-htc-dream-and-magic-to-be-deprived-of-donut/ (as well as the HTC website)
I have seen/heard several Symbian S60 users who wants to have a "new thing" and doesn't like the idea of not being able to multi task and closed app store buying Android phones instead of Windows Mobile phones.
Another thing is, with operator support and real cheap prices, people started to ignore S60 V5 (Nokia 5800, Satio) limitations and issues. Nevertheless, it is like OS X a bit, low in quantity apps but several mobile hits made their way into Symbian.
I only follow Symbian scene and Europe/South Asia, it could be very different in USA since Symbian is already a bit non existent there. What if Windows Mobile users did a similar decision? Like it or not, Windows Mobile is more like Symbian with open app stores/independent installs and multi tasking.
I really hope at least Android will wake up some trendy types and they will figure there is a whole universe out there, even including J2ME on some high end devices which can easily race with native apps. Trolltech owned by Nokia now, should also wake up and start releasing totally ready things for all those platforms and deliver "write once" promise which already got proven by KDE 4.
ps: Please don't even mention "jailbreak", I speak about official scene and yes, I know iPhone does multitask itself, it is UNIX. What matters is end user apps being allowed to multitask.
It's only $99.99 on contract now. And it's buy one get one free. Or get one free with the DROID.
I'd wager people are liking this when comparing it to the iPhone 3GS ($199.99 for 16gb, $299 for 32GB) and older iPhone 3G ($99.99 for 8GB). Especially since 16GB microSD cards can be had for $50 and some 3sGB ones are trickling in at $80.
Portable versions of Firefox, GIMP, LibreOffice, etc
Symbian, J2ME, Windows Mobile are "open" because they have a very paranoid security model which some hate. iPhone has nothing of that sort, there is no "Apple signed" scheme and Apple loves the "app store" like stuff including the policies. See the hell they gave to basic OS X input manager developers just because some idiot trolls released proof of concepts.
Apple has set up a monster themselves and there is no way to change it unless they implement "symbian signed" scheme. Things would be a lot easier if they didn't start a lawsuit fight with Nokia along with offensive arguments which are unheard in mobile scene until now.
Symbian signed makes more sense than J2ME sandbox because both deal with native apps which have real deep access to OS/hardware. I can't really picture Apple allowing 2-3 resident apps I use on Symbian right now, e.g. iON Battery timer... Something replicates battery level functionality with estimated time remaining. Imagine the horror if you submitted something like that to app store :) Or the idea of a IM application always on and shamelessly added to startup. Or the themes...
If you open the platform, people will ask for such things from developers and developers will sure ship them.
Ask anyone on the street if they know what Android is. Do the same for the iPhone. Check the proportions.
A new unknown product is still an unknown product. The iPhone has Apple's entire marketing (which is arguably one of their strongest assets) behind it, while Android didn't really have much before. I think this shows that no matter the quality of the product, awareness is key.
Not to mention this is simply proof that advertising works. Who didn't know you can affect the masses with advertising? I had to take my mom by the Verizon store today, what did they have on signs all over the place? "Droid does!" Huge signs everywhere, even Stevie Wonder would have trouble missing them. So is anyone surprised that with a big ad campaign and giant posters all over the stores that folks are noticing the shiny?
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Agreed. I think a lot of this hype will pass by the wayside. Early reviews indicate this will mostly just eat it's own. Another good phone, but not an iPhone killer.
Here's a rather lengthy review that talks about it's pros and cons at great length.
Personally, I think it will be a good smartphone, but it still lacks polish, and has some glaring missing features like basic sync capabilities if this review is accurate. Can someone verify the accuracy of this review? It's not a very kind review in some key areas:
http://gizmodo.com/5395801/android-20-review-almost-human
What is the tendency to deride people for liking something? What do you gain from that? I've asked this probably 80 times and never really received a response, but like any old fool I'm ever hopeful.
Apple will lose this fight because they made 3 big mistakes:
As it stands, Android will be capable of gaining a lot of ground in the coming year and dare I say even be dominant in 12 months time as contracts expire. Hell, if Palm can pull some decent hardware out of their asses for their nice new OS, they might even finally be able to gain some ground too.
the iPhone, while quite cool conceptually, suffers from some very lame design issues
For every "lame design issue" in the iPhone, there is one in Android.
It's the nature of resource restricted platforms that trade-offs have to be made - these ain't multi-core desktops with gigabytes of RAM and terabytes of disk space.
In 2006, according to analysts 58% of iPod users were thinking about buying a Zune.
http://www.abiresearch.com/products/research_brief/Consumer_Electronics_Market_Update/101
iPhone is one series of phones (basically one phone with three current models) from one manufacturer offered on one carrier in the US.
Android is a platform that's offered by multiple manufacturers on multiple carriers. There is no "Android phone" (even factoring in the Nexus One), there's Droid, Droid Eris, Moment, HTC Hero, G1, myTouch, Cliq, and Behold. As of right now. And that's on 3 of the 4 major US carriers, excepting AT&T for the moment.
Needless to say, I think Android as a whole will ultimately be the major "alternative platform" for those who want a phone that's not an iPhone or Blackberry. But as a whole, that will merely replace Windows Mobile and Symbian as alternatives, not eat the marketshare/mindshare of Apple and RIM.
Android will be the "OS you get on your phone when you don't ask for an iPhone or a Blackberry by name". And that's probably fine and dandy, it should increase margins for the handset makers, make money for Google, and eventually result in another useful app platform for developers.
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
Who modded this offtopic? It's rather insightful, and for exactly those reasons I won't be getting an Android phone either.
Frankly, I don't see casual people caring about any of those 3 points.
Maybe Eric Schmidt (png image - safe for work unless your job is at the googleplex) has mod points and he's spying on us :-)
Symbian, J2ME, Windows Mobile are "open" because they have a very paranoid security model which some hate.
And so, too, does the iPhone.
iPhone has nothing of that sort, there is no "Apple signed" scheme
Just how do you think app store apps run anyway? All apps coming from the app store are signed by the developer, using an Apple generated certificate. Just try running an unsigned app on a non-jailbroken phone. Springboard (the app launcher) will not run it.
All apps run in a sandbox (unless you jailbreak) and cannot get to the system. There's that "paranoid security model" you claim they do not have.
I can't really picture Apple allowing 2-3 resident apps
Well sure, because it eats into battery life. It's pretty ironic to take down the lifespan of your device by an hour just to have a battery measurement app wake up the processor every few seconds... I can understand why people want background apps but actually notifications are a decent compromise for users so they can have a somewhat predictable battery experience. For instance, there are already a number of IM apps that use notifications for this and are thus essentially "running all the time" as far as the user is concerned.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
And, in other news, it's the year of Linux on the Desktop! *ducks*
I use my iPhone for a decent amount of browsing, a number of apps and a few calls. The only way I'd have to charge daily is if I left a GPS app open and running constantly for a whole day.
I used my iPhone as a GPS unit while on a multi-day hut hike, and conserving the use a bit I still had more than 50% power after two full days.
So I don't know where you get your numbers from but there's no way you have to charge an iPhone every day. You may want to look over to phones that are multitasking more for those kinds of recharge rates...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Google Maps by default. Here in Perth it links in with the transperth data (public transport), displays all stops and which services stop there, can plot routes from point to point via car, public transport or walking.
Well here in the U.S. it does that too. But there's no way I'd want to pay for that flood of data, hence the apps that have all that data in offline maps.
The best part is if I select a restaurant it will bring up pertinent info on that restaurant such as its phone number and opening hours.
That kind of things is also in the offline data for many maps, as it would be in any tourist book.
already a variety of SIP/Skype applications that use 3G or WiFi.
Again for someone roaming the 3G part doesn't matter.
If I have a paper map, it's generally assumed I don't have a lot of money to waste
And are probably lost, since a paper map cannot tell you exactly where you are.
I use my iPhone for offline maps regularly in Europe, I've never had a problem with theft and I am not "staring at it all the time". I only need to check every so often to see where I am and look at street names around where I am going - just like any other map.
he kept showing it to Thai's that would be lucky to make 500 Baht a day
Those people are idiots iPhone or no. Before the iPhone they were losing cameras or wallets the same way. You can't blame the iPhone for poor situational awareness when traveling.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Android has apps iPhone doesn't like built in voice navigation in google maps, google voice, google goggles, and tethering
You can buy a number of apps for voice navigation on the iPhone (or download Waze which is free), most of which work without a data connection (google maps is nice until you start traveling outside cities much, Waze does require data though). You can manage Google Voice using the web app on the iPhone, and the iPhone is not lacking for AR apps now.
As for tethering, it's not Apple involved there. iPhone OS 3.0 supports it, as do a number of carriers around the world - look right at AT&T if you wonder who is preventing you from tethering in the U.S. Granted to a consumer it doesn't matter if it's Apple or AT&T blocking that, but it's unfair to blame Apple for AT&T suckage.
I don't know when you owned an iPhone but your information is terribly out of date.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The iPhone also charges just fine from any standard USB port. And thanks to the ubiquity of iPods, finding a charging cable in any store even if you forgot one is dead simple.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It would require more like 25,000% more demand, to be even considered as a target platform by me. :)
Oh, and if you dare to lock it down, like Apple, you lost the game before it started.
— A mobile software developer.
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
You give people too much credit.
You're a 'people'. Are you as much of a lemming as you claim?
Both systems will probably die in the long run as they will be replaced by normal operating system. The iPhone already officially runs on MacOSX, but because of stupid marketing decisions it's not open. The Android is marketed as a Linux device, but instead is just running a proprietary flavour of Linux which is barely compatible with anything. It doesn't even use X11!
So I predict that in the future, people who actually care about what their phones can do (which is a minority) will probably run some kind of stripped down normal OS. Early devices implementing this are the Maemo ones which is essentially a stripped down Debian. It's probably already possible to share repositories with Ubuntu ARM. (need to try that)
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/01/iphone-hack/
overlooked and lurking behind this gadget envy is an important regulatory decision -- one expected in weeks on whether to authorize an iPhone jailbreak.
Apple said sanctioning an iPhone operating system hack would gut its business model. That plan has given way to more than 2 billion app downloads, in addition to an expected and much-rumored iPhone-like tablet.
"This would severely limit our ability to continue what we are doing as well as innovate for the future," Greg Joswiak, an Apple marketing czar, recently told regulators considering the jailbreaking proposal before the U.S. Copyright Office.
At stake for Apple is the very closed business model the Cupertino, California-based electronics concern has enjoyed since 2007, when the iPhone debuted.
The proposal, brought by the Electronic Frontier Foundation, would pave the way for third-party apps on the iPhone -- hence turning the iPhone into a blank slate to run whatever its owner wishes. That would be a huge financial blow, as Apple earns 30 percent for every App sold from its proprietary iTunes store, Joswiak said.
The proposed hack is part of the exemption process under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998. Every three years, the Librarian of Congress and the U.S. Copyright Office entertain proposals for exemptions to copyright law.
Eric Schmidt, CEO of Google..
That was 50% of the reason that I recently changed back from an Android phone to a 3GS (had a 2G before, hence the change "back"). I think it's important to understand how Google and it's CEO look at privacy, since you share EVERYTHING with them when you use an Android phone. The JesusPhone is not completely free of that "information grabbing", but you at least it's a bit more free.
The other 50% was that when I bought the Android phone, it was all about opensauce, lots of upgrades and GreatSuccess(TM). After 6 months of owning an Android the status was that Google had sent a lawyer-letter to Cyanogen (www.cyanogenmod.com), the ONLY guy that at least released SOME upgrades for people that bought a HTC Magic. HTC's support can't even tell when the buggy 1.5 release you get when buying a Magic would get an update to 1.6, 2.0 or 2.1. No more HTC or Android for me.
--- Woohooo!
Where'd you get the 4%? Currently, it looks like Apple has 10+% of global smartphones and almost a third of the US market.
It's heartwarming that Moto finally has a sales growth. My first phone was a StarTAC, and it was really sad to see the brand fading away over the past years. I know quite a few good Moto engineers (they're all there, if you dig under the layers of Dilbert-grade mismanagement), and they were really waiting for good news for quite a few years now.
I hope Google keeps control over the user interface, though.
Why?
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
To me it's a matter of choice. I should be able to choose to run as many background applications as my [insert device name] can handle if I want to.
I don't quite agree with the "similar capabilities" and "unknown possibilities" part. To me, Android means
- physical keyboard, if I want one
- ability to freely install any software
- bigger screen
- non-emasculated bluetooth stack
- VOIP
- Flash
Not "similar", and not "unknown". Not just fresh paint and marketing gimmicks.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
Nokia is missing from the list. They have a pretty big share of the market.
Ask anyone on the street if they know what Android is. Do the same for the iPhone. Check the proportions.
Ask 500 random people on the street what a tampon is, and most will know.. Does that mean men are using tampons now? Brand recognition is not a guarantee of sales. I know what an iPhone is, and what it does, but I don't want one. I don't even want a cell phone, which doesn't mean I want a touch. Brand recognition is not a guarantee of sales.
A new unknown product is still an unknown product. The iPhone has Apple's entire marketing (which is arguably one of their strongest assets) behind it, while Android didn't really have much before. I think this shows that no matter the quality of the product, awareness is key.
And cell phones are a rapidly changing market. So a new product is still a new product. The iPhone is not new any more. Usual phone retail life span is about 2 years tops. The Jesus phone is 3 years + old. Even though it is updated every so often, it still looks like the first one. Some people actually want a new phone, not an upgrade of the same one. Most are not as neophobic as you think. And some actually like being able to put their phone on a table, and not have to figure out which one is theirs.. The iPhone is getting old.. Deal with it..
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
They do not mention that, in a time frame smaller than 2 months, Google has gave to all its employees (more than 15.000 worldwide) a Motorolla Android-based phone. For me, that kind of explain the number's twist.
Are you referring to the Android or the iPhone?
You are welcome on my lawn.
Really, iPod Touch isn't that far from doing most of the things Droid can...except phone calls. If only it would have a camera (probably coming in the next revision) and could use, through Bluetooth, "dumbphone" as a net access and GPS (I'm not holding my breath here)
That's pretty much my ideal usage scenario. Since I don't like the thought of my phone being a multimedia powerhouse that saps its battery quickly, I would prefer to have second solid, simple mobile phone as a backup...in which case telephony part of one device also becomes redundant. So why not settle with iPod Touch-like device and tethering it to something like Nokia 2710 (over 2 weeks standby and GPS, for 100 Euro without contract)
Preferably with a setting on the dumbphone "don't allow data access and GPS when battery is at x%"
One that hath name thou can not otter
It could even have a pref that defaults to "no multitasking" or "max 1 simultaneous apps", for clueless users who only care about battery life. How hard would that be? So long as it's changeable by someone with enough knowledge, that'd be fine by me.
Apple claims they take choice away to "improve the user experience", but really they're just trying to reduce their own support costs, nothing more.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
Android. The iPhone has obviously gone beyond 'hype' as it's in it's 4th year.
The screen on the android is very nice, although time will tell if Joe user will appreciate it when it's in such small dimensions.
If this phone doesn't get it's act together for syncing music and such, it's not gonna fly with the average user.
And do you know the actual context in which he made that statement?
But you're conveniently ignoring all the other competitors in the store, such as Nokia.
If you're making a judgement from the store-window point of view, you need to compare all of them. Comparing the Iphone only to a newly released first generation Android phone is just a cheap trick to make Apple's phones look better than they are.
It has 4% market share of phones worldwide.
You only get higher figures by fiddling the market to only look at a made up definition of "smartphone" which is illdefined - go on, give me a clear definition that includes Iphones, but doesn't include most feature phones?
Obviously if you redefine the market to only include Apple and a few competitor phones, 10% is hardly surprising, and not anything special. It's still less than many other companies (the biggest are Nokia, at around 40%). Apple might be doing better than a platform that's been released later than them, but that doesn't make them the biggest, or anywhere near it. For some reason though, many people on Slashdot seem to be under the illusion they are.
Well, if we get daily stories about Apple vaporware based on rumour from unreliable sources about possible new products, I think we can have an occasional story about predictions for Google products too.
Shhh, everyone be quiet. Let them figure out there's no such thing as 'the android' on their own. It will be hilarious when they finally catch on.
Do you even know what the Cyanogen letter was about? Or do you just see 'corporation' and 'cease and desist' and start foaming at the mouth? Did you ever think Cyanogen might *gasp* actually be doing something illegal? Have you even fucking checked out the site in question to see that it's still going, back up after less than a week? Maybe you could go there and update your firmware yourself instead of bitching about it? And you know HTC can't help you figure out when your MOBILE SERVICE PROVIDER is going to push you an update? Right? Because they don't control the goddamn radios?
I think you're just pissed off because you have absolutely no idea what's going on in the world around you. Also, I like how one fucking sentence after years of being in the public spotlight can convince you that Google employees are sitting around laughing at your porn DNS requests and bad sexting attempts. Get over yourself.
Haha context? Who needs context when we have sound bites and terrorist knuckle bumps? Watch, the parent won't even reply. He'll just assume anyone who isn't as reactionary as him to one sentence must be insane!
Do you even know what the Cyanogen letter was about?
Yes, I know what the letter was about, though I haven't read the actual letter since it wasn't addressed to me.
Have you even fucking checked out the site in question to see that it's still going, back up after less than a week? Maybe you could go there and update your firmware yourself instead of bitching about it?
Have you ever fucking learned to communicate normally with people that you might not agree with? What's this for shit? To answer your rudely formed question: Yes, I have checked the site, I know how they fixed it and I was (up untill I sold the phone yesterday) running his FW. Why are you asking? I STILL expect a fucking (we are appearantly in Pulp Fiction mode because I appearantly said something REALLY bad that started that off) firmware from HTC. Since I bought the phone from them. I shouldn't be required to install an SDK and run recovery images just to get a fw with less bugs in it. For example the Location update bug that slows down the phone to a crawl within 2 days, fixed in 1.6 months ago.
And you know HTC can't help you figure out when your MOBILE SERVICE PROVIDER is going to push you an update? Right? Because they don't control the goddamn radios?
They don't control the "goddamn radios"? I never bought the phone from any operator, I just bought it from HTC. It's not locked nor branded, it has a HTC logo on the back. How does that have anything to do with the "goddamn radios"? HTC is offering a newer firmware on their site as a download, that you can apply only with a Windows PC. Just as with less-official firmware, you don't need OTA updates to get updates.
I think you're just pissed off because you have absolutely no idea what's going on in the world around you.
Luckily we have you on to be the well informed guy that can help me out with some friendly advise.
Also, I like how one fucking sentence after years of being in the public spotlight can convince you that Google employees are sitting around laughing at your porn DNS requests and bad sexting attempts. Get over yourself.
If the CEO of a company that I'm a customer or user off says something, I note that as company policy. He's the CEO. He decides. If his views are not at all like mine, then I stop using them. That's what I did. You're free to use whatever phone you want.
--- Woohooo!
So you don't think people would be more likely to lie about buying an iPhone soon than they would a droid? Even if it doesn't correlate to the number of actual purchases, wouldn't the proportion of answers one way or another still provide insight into the demand for each? No, wait, I bet you're right and they just lied.
Maybe not the first two, but you can't underestimate the last one. Even mainstream news organizations like the New York Times complain about the poor quality of AT&T's network.
i.e. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/03/technology/companies/03att.html
s.clementmonkey@sympatico.ca, remove the 'monkey'.
As someone who does PLAN to buy a new phone in the next 6 months, what is the basic difference between the top 3 that would make it an advantage over another?
iPhone
Blackberry
Droid
I have done a bit of research, and I realize the the Droid and Blackberry phones will come in different flavors and thus different capabilities, which is likely part of their appeal. Anyway having never owned a smart phone before, I am wondering what features each have that would be the "deal breaker" for me. I know Blackberry (typically) has a tactile keyboard while the iPhone does not, and that many prefere that, though perhaps that is merely preference. What other large differences do these platforms have, and what do each really excel at?
And this may be the case until the next iPhone refresh, when the market will probably switch back.
> It's called an aux in jack, and many more new cars have them than IPod docks
Except the phone doesn't come with an aux out plug. And wasn't bluetooth supposed to make this irrelevant?
I have used iPod touch (latest gen) for a while until I consolidated everything to Nokia E71 (which has E72 upgrade now) recently.
Symbian security model is way ahead of Sandbox and it is more fit to native applications rather than J2ME allthough J2ME is ages ahead of iPhone "interns checking executable symbols" security too.
It is based on "what can the application do" rather than "lets disallow anything low level and live happily like it is 1984".
About the battery life? My device runs for 2 days if I got IM app open all times, 6 days normal usage (including low lev. browsing, mail check) and 10 days if I go use it like an ordinary phone. The application I use uses 1% CPU every 1 min, I have also verified its power/CPU usage via Nokia Energy Profiler and specifically congratulated the developer for using unique features of Symbian.
Nor does it come with a mini-usb to phono patch cable. The earphones that come with the phone oddly enough end in actual earphones.
Yes, getting an adapter is not a big deal, but it's a technical hurdle you can't surmount if you don't carry it with you or keep it in your car. My point was that bluetooth is supposed to free us of this nonsense, but I still don't see it making any inroads for home or car stereo equipment.
Ask anyone on the street if they know what Android is. Do the same for the iPhone.
They are not quite the same thing : /.er give a damn about it.
- the iPhone is a line of *products* which end-users know well because that's the product they are asking for.
It runs *OS X* (without "Mac" in front) - a distant cousin of the thing running on Macs, but no one except
- Android is an operating system running on lots of different phone. No end user cares what exactly is the phone running under the hood as long as it looks nice&shiny, runs well and has interesting apps on it. Of course the experience depends on what the OS underneath is, but the end user will know better about "HTC Hero", "Motorola Droid", etc. (Just like (s)he knows about iPhone) rather than about "Android" (just as (s)he ignores "OS X" or "Symbian")
Your question is similar as asking about Busybox/Linux in the realm of modem/routers. No end-user gives a damn about what the "magic internet box" is running, as long as (s)he can get the daily fix of lolcats. Nonetheless, Linux has pretty much reached monopoly in the market of modem/routers, even if nobody knows or even cares about it.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
In context he was right... search engines retain information and he cant guarantee that google can keep the information that it gathers private. His inner politician must have been off that day because he should have used more PC words. But i actually applaud him for being honest, and saying something that we all know to be true... with the patriot act in play, no information is private or safe if the feds want it.
You're underlying issues arnt with google but with all search engines because they are required to keep this information.
Yes - he was asked about whether google should be trusted. Here's , with VIDEO.
The implication is clear - Google will roll over when there's a request made for your info, rather than saying "no, gimme a warrant, you insensitive clod." Look at their activities in China and, more recently, India.
Search engines aren't "required to keep this information." Case in point - scroogle.
Nobody is required to keep the information - google only does because it's part of their user tracking so they can better target YOU with ads. In doing so they paint a bigger target on you.
If they were just serving up ads that did not track, they wouldn't have much of this data in the first place.
If there were such a requirement, they could get around it by moving their servers to Kanuckistan (aka Canada), where the government actually goes after companies for breaking the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act or otherwise infringing on individual rights and freedoms. And they'd get better natural cooling for their data centers at the same time - just leave a window open in the winter.
He's asking people in Alabama.
And yes, I am insensitive clod that lives in Alabama. A lifer with a bizarre mix of Eastern Mysticism, Western Philosophy, Cynical Collegiate Education (read as doing it for the Paper which garners ease of getting more paper), and a Cradle Catholic (guess what, Catholics are a split and diverse as Linux distributions if not more so). Feel free to find specific points in this post to mention and not see the entirety. It is your job. (NOTE: Your refers not to the parent but some unspecified forum dweller. Consider this more of an offtopic rant than flamebait)
In short, I am just a node, dude. One with highly suspect PGP protocol between common information input mechanisms.
But you asked why (to try Bud Dry)? I would say people would like to portray their First Life Avatar as something other than it is depending on the other Avatar they are interacting with. I've heard, but not confirmed, The Third planet is sure that they’re being watched by an Eye in the Sky that can’t be stopped. When you get to the promise land you're gonna shake that eyes hand.
So, they would respond "Yes" because there is some book recording their deeds and they sure as Hell must give a resounding Positive.
I say it's all about perspective. God, if existing as some sort of outside whole entity would know I would be the cynical questioning type. So, if I judge him to be a Judge, then he should have known to begin with. For instance, I would try to make peace between family for the sake of the whole. But, I will not lose (hey loose would work too!) my ego in the process. After all, why have it if You don't need my perspective and nodal decisions. My voice in the choir raises high when it should .. and I take a piss break when I don't care for the song. And yes, there are plenty of redundancies to handle server loads.
Now, would I buy a bible for my daughter? Understanding this question comes after watching Kong Fu Panda then Gigi (yeccch... this is suppose to make people believe in God?) back to back with her ... I'll do what my dad did, give her the tools (whatever source they may be; though some sources are more poisoned than others) ... she creates what she needs. That is why she is here. Not to regurgitate what I or someone supposedly said 2000, 6000, 10K years ago.
Other Humans are out link to other information. But, they are a breed very susceptible to man-in-the-middle attacks.
Example: Is Jesus saving me? Or was he just some radical Rabbi against the Sadducees, a group working in part at least with the MAN (i.e. Romans).
Don't take that as anti-Semitic. It was just an internal Jewish thing. Not a perfect analogy: but think of America's killing of Timothy McVeigh. Who was right with what Jewish side? And why 2000 years later should I care? Why didn't Jesus mention he was going to die on the cross to the Apostles (you think that might come up at some point ... ) . Why is the rebuilding of the Temple meant to Christians to mean creating of a new religion on just not a re-org thing? Was he Jeremiah or the Dragon Reborn?
Without original documentation from the YouTubes of ~30 AD CE RGB DRM citizens, I cannot provide an answer nor trust any answer given. So, he is just some dude. That lived then died maybe. Wow, I feel complete now.
So I say Fuck It. What answer gives me my free Big Mac (don't worry Hindu's, it's actually a chemically isolated gelatin from some form of Genetically Modified soy) with Ergot Sauce? My parents told me it's yes? Well, then yes.
Sometimes the info we are searching for is hidden in weird places, like the woman giving you a smile at the right time or a simple thank you after an emotionally exhausting game of esoteric scrabble.
Chemicals upon chemicals, some antagonists, some repressing while the other uptake. No answer will satisfy, but a local biological mix can for a short period of time.
No animals were harmed in this ramble. And remember, All-In-One, It Slices, It Dices, It Defrags.
Why indeed.
"Eli eli lama sabachthani"
"You were right. --Your loving father."
Atlas Shrugged : Thematic Story
AFAIK iPhone only supports Bluetooth headsets, not file transfers or anything else. But then again that is probably just the usual minimalistic software approach typical of Steve Jobs. I doubt the hardware is the problem there.
> For a brand new product vs an iconic powerhouse, that is little short of amazing.
I look at it the other way: a brand new product SHOULD be doing well compared to a similar product that is three years old and is largely unchanged.* "Iconic powerhouse" or not, a new product should be doing SOMETHING other than just sitting there getting crushed.
* Other than GPS, videorecording, and 3rd-party apps--which OTHER smartphones had BEFORE the iPhone was even out (so their introduction, while nice, wasn't earth-shattering)--little new of substance has been added to the iPhone since its introduction in January 2007. (Plus faster networking and a better camera and more storage, but that's just "it gets incrementally faster/better over time" like ANY technology.)
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
It provides insight, yes. Just not much predictive insight.
If a bunch of people say that yes, they do want to buy a certain product, and then very few of them actually do buy it, it can tell you a number of things:
Breakfast served all day!
Actually there are replacements for many of the apps. For example, I have two alternative browsers installed, one of which, Dolphin, I like because it can emulate a desktop browser for sites that are broken with mobile browsers (Picasa, I'm looking at you!). It's not an iPhone so you're free to replace Google's apps. I even have a replacement rotary dialer that replaces the Google dialer, and there's numerous 3rd party camera and GPS apps. I haven't checked email, but I'm sure there's replacements for just about everything (including the keyboard).
This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
Umm, what the hell are you talking about? Aux in jacks connect using a male-to-male stereo cable to any stereo jack (stereo jacks = headphone jack). What current gen smartphone do you know of that lacks a basic headphone jack?
I would have answered YES to an android in December. Now, the answer would be NO. Not unless I can replace all the Google apps with something else.
The guy's a hypocrite who simply can't be trusted any more. I don't need my phone spying on me for some guy who thinks his personal info is privileged, and yours and mine isn't.
Some people have found out you can end up on some to the nations watch lists thanks to Google's relationship with HSA. Google apparently shares harvested information with Uncle Sam about what some user interests are based on their search profiles. Now these paranoid potential perps refuse to buy an Android that literally allows Google and the US Government to monitor them 24 hours a day.
For your typical WASP I think this is too paranoid and you should not have to worry about an Android phone or using Google products.
It is really just these unstable citizens and foreigners that have a problem with Google Android and HSA. I think the idea of monitoring these unstable people is a great idea for our nations safety in the first place and we should use every legal tool available.
Thanks Google, Uncle Sam and our country owe you one.
Other devices don't have this, and just having the ability to drop a phone in your car's dash to jam out to whatever you listen to makes an iPhone a nicer deal than Android phones which don't seem to have BlueTooth support.
Sounds like you've been misled - Android supports Bluetooth just fine.
I use my G1 to jam out in the car all the time, without connecting the phone to anything or even taking it out of my pocket. Stereo sound comes through the car speakers, and the prev/next/pause buttons on my stereo control the Android media player.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
Search engines aren't "required to keep this information." Case in point - scroogle.
No. Scroogle is about - not storing the information of the person who is making the search request. But the context is not this, like the snippet from Eric you yourself posted. The context is
Schmidt's reply hints that if there's scandalous information out there about you, it's your problem, not Google's.
If there is scandalous information about you, scroogle cannot do anything. Search engines are required to crawl the web and store information in an easy to search format. At least until technology advances to the point that search engines can crawl the whole web on the fly and give the search results. Technology may never reach this point, and even if it does, the privacy concerns are the same: your scandalous information that is publicly available will just as easily (maybe more) searchable.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
It's perfectly rational to blame Apple for locking in to AT&T and thus preventing competition for features such as tethering.
Sure, because five years ago it was totally obvious that AT&T would block tethering even though they allowed it for other phones.
The depths of madness an Apple Hater exhibits truly shows no end. No rationalization is too much a stretch, no issue too much in control by another company it cannot be pegged on Apple. Damn you Apple for allowing terrorism and suffering across the world!
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
... but they don't have to store search queries - you know, those things that can get you arrested in the US, or shot in some other countries ... and with smartphones, they can tie queries to customers. Nasty. And now google wants to get even more control over communications by being appointed the administrator of radio spectrum white space.
GGGP was saying about "in context". As posted by yourself, the context was not about storing search queries. So stop changing subject like an ADD patient and learn to read.
Of course there are problems with Eric. I don't like his name. That doesn't mean he was not right in context.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
Cost is a big factor. I agree the story is about a poll so it's rather bogus but I suspect at least half the jump is real. Do you want to buy an over-priced but 'perfect' AT&T phone or do you want to buy something half the price with 2/3rds of the quality and features? I think Apple has always had products that are about twice as good as everybody else's but when they charge three times as much, then it ain't worth it.
The context was about privacy. Search results are part of that - google stores them, analyses them, and ties them into profiles. Google (and Schmidt) don't "get it" when it comes to privacy. THAT is the context, and THE issue for this decade.
> What current gen smartphone do you know of that lacks a basic headphone jack?
Most phones that aren't an iPhone. How many phones have you even owned?
Probably because a CD quality audio stream is around 1.4mbit/s uncompressed, which is pushing it for a bluetooth connection. I suppose you could send the stream compressed, but then you would require that the receiver be able to decode it, as well as the sending device having to possibly transcode it on the fly.
The implication is clear - Google will roll over when there's a request made for your info, rather than saying "no, gimme a warrant, you insensitive clod."
The only implication is that Google and everyone else has to provide them with that information. They don't have a choice in the question. And he's telling you that you should remember that and not trust them with stuff you really don't want to be turned over to the authorities, because they can't protect you.
It's nice to see you post in a normal vein for a change. I appreciate the effort. We're almost there. Now find the topic and put some part of it in your comment and we can discuss the issues of the day. I think that would be fun.
I agree with you about some stuff - host files in particular. I block a lot of hosts in my DNS, and a have masked out large parts of the IP space in my router as well. In addition to avoiding much of the unpleasantness of malware and worms I consider the lack of ads on my Internet a benefit.
But you need to seriously dial back the whole megalomania deal if you can - it's not helping. I'm going to disagree with you about some stuff and you're just going to have to deal with that if we're to have a civil internet relationship.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
THAT is the context, and THE issue for this decade.
Thanks you told me, now I know. Tell this to Obama too, he is wasting his time on irrelvant things like recession, economic stimulus etc.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
Maybe if he threw the people in jail who were behind the housing bubble, it would make a difference. For example, Warren Buffett, who owned the biggest chunk of both Moody's (one of the ratings agencies that made toxic mortgages possible and AIG (the guys who got an emergency $85 billion no-strings-attached initial bail-out - since increased - and then blew a half-million on a party).
Buffett's the biggest welfare recipient in the entire history of the world. Without the bailouts, and the subsequent lawsuits, he would have lost pretty much everything.
And Obama won't do shit, and you know it. Doubling the debt, then doubling it again, isn't the way to get out of debt. It just kicks the can down the road a few years.
Are you insane? Since when is ANYONE obliged to hand over anything without a warrant or a subpoena? Or has everyone in your country been so brow-beaten into submission that when someone says "bend over and take it up the ass!" you think of Nike and just do it!???
No warrant, no co-operation. If it's good enough for the supremes, it should be good enough for you. Here, watch a prosecutor and a cop talk about how it really works, and how anyone who cooperates without a warrant is an idiot
Ok, now try rereading that sentence. Specifically the part where I wrote "current gen smartphones".
HTC is making all their Android phones have a 3.5mm stereo jack starting with the HTC Hero from mid-2009. The Droid and Eris have a headphone jack. The Pre and Pixi have headphone jacks, All blackberries have had headphone jacks for a few years now, I'm pretty sure every major WinMo phone from the past 2 years has a headphone jack... I could continue but it'd just be redundant.
It's one thing to say that normal phones don't have headphone jacks, as you're right, most don't, but then again, what's the point of connecting one of those to your car? That's the point of this particular thread remember? Car connection?
I don't own an iPhone or an iPod Touch and never planned to, but I do own a Pre, and when I want to use it in my car I plug the stereo cable from my tape deck into the headphone jack and put it on the touchstone in my car. The phone's mic is in speaker mode when the 3.5mm jack is connected to something, so I just talk normally and the sound comes out of my speakers. This is not rocket science people. My best friend does the same with his Droid and used to do it with his iPhone 3G as well.
The iPhone may have proprietary car adapters, but try streaming Pandora while using its GPS and see how far you get...
Ok, I see. So you can change the context, but you never get the correct one. Have you tried Ritalin? All the best.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
Have you ever fucking learned to communicate normally with people that you might not agree with? What's this for shit? To answer your rudely formed question: Yes, I have checked the site, I know how they fixed it and I was (up untill I sold the phone yesterday) running his FW. Why are you asking? I STILL expect a fucking (we are appearantly in Pulp Fiction mode because I appearantly said something REALLY bad that started that off) firmware from HTC. Since I bought the phone from them. I shouldn't be required to install an SDK and run recovery images just to get a fw with less bugs in it. For example the Location update bug that slows down the phone to a crawl within 2 days, fixed in 1.6 months ago.
Your inability to cope with four letter words aside, I really don't know what the fuck you're talking about. To install my updates I put the .zip on the drive and pushed the buttons it told me to. Easiest firmware update I think I've ever done.
They don't control the "goddamn radios"? I never bought the phone from any operator, I just bought it from HTC. It's not locked nor branded, it has a HTC logo on the back. How does that have anything to do with the "goddamn radios"? HTC is offering a newer firmware on their site as a download, that you can apply only with a Windows PC. Just as with less-official firmware, you don't need OTA updates to get updates.
OK so what's your fucking problem then? You complained because they didn't give you the firmware, and now you point out that the firmware is on their site. Were you talking about before 1.6 was released? You know HTC doesn't design the firmware either right? You know who the fuck MAKES Android, right?
Luckily we have you on to be the well informed guy that can help me out with some friendly advise.
Want some more friendly 'advise'? Take some more goddamn English classes.
If the CEO of a company that I'm a customer or user off says something, I note that as company policy. He's the CEO. He decides. If his views are not at all like mine, then I stop using them. That's what I did. You're free to use whatever phone you want.
Just trying to protect yourself from your own rabid overreactions.
Are you insane? Since when is ANYONE obliged to hand over anything without a warrant or a subpoena?
Why are you assuming they wouldn't have a warrant or a subpoena, anyway?
Whoosh?
I was attempting to illustrate the apparent similarities between this article and advertising.
Fucking stupid, meaningless numbers used to hype a product. Need there be more similarities to actually call this article advertising?
Most phones are designated as "smart-phones" or "cellphones" by their manufacturers. While the term isn't well defined, it is easy to tell whether a manufacturer considers a phone in that category.
>>The implication is clear - Google will roll over when there's a request made for your info, rather than saying "no, gimme a warrant, you insensitive clod."
>The only implication is that Google and everyone else has to provide them with that information. They don't have a choice in the question.
To say there's no choice when there's no warrant is insanely dumb. The proper response is as follows:
Cop: We want to search your house.
You: Well, we have to stop by your place first.
Cop: What for?
You: To search it, of course. I have as much of a right as you do!
Cop: You have no right to search my place.
You: I have as much right to search your place without a warrant as you do to search mine without one. So we're agreed you have no right to search my place. But why would you object? Do you have something to hide?
Bonus points if there's at least one witness, and that they're getting it on their cell phone. If not, just discretely dial 911 and let the conversation be recorded - and make sure you have detailed billing on your cell phone plan so the call can't be "lost."
No warrant, no search. We talk outside.
Your inability to cope with four letter words aside, I really don't know what the fuck you're talking about. To install my updates I put the .zip on the drive and pushed the buttons it told me to. Easiest firmware update I think I've ever done.
Yes, the fw upgrades are easy, one can see that Android was made to be upgraded easily and often. I didn't write that it's impossible to upgrade.
We're talking fw upgrades using the SDK (adp push, fastboot etc) and zip files that we get from others than HTC. My post was about HTC supplied firmware updates, since they are the phone manufacturer and I bought my phone directly from them.
On http://www.htc.com/europe/supportdownloadlist.aspx?p_id=267&act=sd&cat=all I see that the last update was in october-2009 and it's a 1.5 release. Did you get your updates to 1.6 or 2.0 from HTC? In that case the support HTC is giving their customers is much better in your area than mine. One can expect, I think, some updates for a phone running Android, from the guys making the phone.
OK so what's your fucking problem then? You complained because they didn't give you the firmware, and now you point out that the firmware is on their site. Were you talking about before 1.6 was released? You know HTC doesn't design the firmware either right? You know who the fuck MAKES Android, right?
Just read what I originally wrote. 1.6 was never released by HTC for the Magic's bought from them.
That means that, even if it's possible to run, there's no supported way to get a newer Android release on your phone without voiding warranty. Ah well, I guess you just don't WANT to read what I'm on about and instead just continue to shout out your "knowledge" about Android and the English (American?) language.
Want some more friendly 'advise'? Take some more goddamn English classes.
Grown up advise, thanks.
--- Woohooo!
So the entire thing hinges on whether there is a warrant or not?
Well duh! Isn't that what I originally WROTE?
No warrant, no requirement to hand over any of your data. And warrants CAN be quashed post hoc. The cost of quashing warrants is, in the long run, less than the cost of complying - so if they're not contesting them, it's because they want a quid pro quo. "You wash my back, and I'll wash yours." You're being sold out.
I have cheap 3G in any country where I want to have it. Simply put, the concept of using a prepaid SIM card from local operator eludes you
Not at all, it's just that I have no need of it on a regular basis - you being able to have cheap 3g in any country is like me being able to travel across the U.S. (which I can).
heck, your phone doesn't even allow that.
Not exactly correct, the iPhone allows for it quite well, just not the one they sell in the U.S.
But even if they sold an unlocked version here I wouldn't get it, because the value for a U.S. citizen is minimal - I can just pay $20 for a decent amount of bandwidth to roam internationally, and that is enough.
And it's hilarious that you remember about looking up street names but can't connect that to the efficient usage of paper map...
I also use paper maps all the time, but when you'd just got off a tram in Amsterdam it's nice to quickly verify you are where you think you are.
I think it's hilarious that YOU think paper maps alone are better than the combination of paper and electronic. How luddite.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley