Slashdot Mirror
India Moves To Put Its First Man In Space By 2016
An anonymous reader writes with this snippet from the International Business Times: "India plans to launch its first manned space mission in 2016, moving to become the fourth nation to put a man in space. Space scientists and senior officials of the state-run ISRO are preparing a pre-project report to build the infrastructure and facilities for the mission, estimated to cost a $2.76 billion. 'We are planning a human space flight in 2016, with two astronauts who will spend seven days in the Earth's lower orbit,' Radhakrishnan told reporters at ISRO headquarters in Bangalore. In September, India's Chandrayaan-1 satellite discovered water on the moon, boosting India's credibility among established space-faring nations"
Man in space. I eat saag paneer to celebrate! I love ravi.
would be putting its last man in space well before that, with NASA being "canned"
This is actually a really good FP if you are Desi.
But I am not doubting the intent. In fact, it is refreshing to see a nation not simply looking at short term but thinking in terms of long term goals but in a concrete way. Its a great thing to have the community of nations dedicated to space exploration expanding in any case.
ACK
While in geo-synchronise orbit over every major continent, call center employees will be available to answer your computer questions both day and night.
Space vs. Software
For the sake of whoever is getting sent up, I hope that they build spacecraft better than they build software, because all of the software I've seen written over there has been pretty damn awful.
I hope EVERYBODY builds spacecraft better than they build software. India does not have a monopoly on crappy software by any means; it's pretty much the status quo for almost everyone.
-- Terry
The US will be able to outsource space exploration overseas!!! Oh goody.
--Greg
I say they use the Indian rope trick to setup a space elevator. Between the weaving needed for the cable and the hundreds of millions of people with those flute things to lift it, I think they have the technology to make this happen.
If you didn't come to party don't bother knocking on my door. Prince '1999'
So, Russia, US, China (yes?), then India... but by what standards? There was an Israeli on the Columbia shuttle, but does he not count 'cause the US put him there? Do the JAXA and ESA astronauts on the ISS not count? I mean, good for India, but I don't think they're the fourth country to have someone in space, and besides its still "only" low orbit we're talking about. Did the Russians even get out of orbit, or was it only the Apollo program?
Obligatory comment about competition in returning to space, etc.
I'm really interested to see what the general populace's response will be when other nations start going into space, landing on the moon, etc. versus what the U.S. space program will be doing at that time.
Can anyone chime in with NASA's current timetables? Could there be public outcry for more NASA funding, or will there just be a media campaign to make our space program *sound* relevant?
-
with the US's new direction. It's now official. Technical leadership has been ceded to Asia.
Maybe it's time to elect some politicians interested in space.
American Third Position
Finally, a real choice!
The more alternatives for manned space flight, the less dependent we become on the space agency of one single nation. An agency that battles not only technical difficulties but also perpetual budget problems.
I hope for more international cooperation in the future. Sending up your own astronauts gets your country a fair bit of prestige. Sending up astronauts from other nations also gets you friends.
People make claims about the wane of western dominance in every U.S. recession. It makes them feel intellectual to go against the grain and naysay.
Besides, your point doesn't even make sense. 400 years ago, there wasn't a U.S. and there wasn't industry, so it's not a valid comparison. What does it matter if India and China had big economies in a time when the biggest economy was farming?
Investing in science is fixing the poverty.
Long live the BSD license
Especially for the many millions of Indians without a basic education and sanitation. They'll remain illiterate and crapping in the streets, but they will feel extatic about their fellow Indian in space.
Ad hominem fallacy. Try again.
There wasn't modern industry, but there was economy. So your second point is as dribblingly retarded as your first.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
... the "dot" Indians... not the "wooo wooo wooo" Indians....
No! No! No! Indians are either "feather, not dot" or "dot, not feather". Not "wooo wooo wooo"!
Get the nomenclature right! Please!
agreed!!! dala nbi tijaskanumori vika tumala keema naan
Especially since a lot of scientists in these programs tend to come from disadvantaged backgrounds. As much flak as the reservation systems get from middle class Indians (essentially a quota-based affirmative action program) its been phenomenally successful at catapulting at least moderately gifted individuals from impoverished backgrounds (the primary criticism leveled against reservations has been that those students are typically admitted with significantly lower than average test scores) into cutting edge scientific research and high technology industries.
The biggest economy may have been farming, but farming was (and still is) important with new technologies still attacking the same problems of even 400 years ago such as drought, nutrients of the soil, and pest resistance.
The mere fact that you slam farming is showing you lack the hindsight and the necessity for foresight to find the best solution to any problem.
...four years after the US gives up that capability.
There wasn't modern industry, but there was economy. So your second point is as dribblingly retarded as your first.
Your post just demonstrates that you don't know much about economics, so I'd lay off the insults.
It goes from God, to Jerry, to me.
Hmm, you're saying that those two economies were larger than the economy of the Europe/Mediterranean region? Because that's the apt comparison... I'm not saying you aren't correct, I'm just curious as to what economies you compare them to. I'm also very curious as to what your source is... 400 years ago Europe had a far different economy than India or China, with industrialism beginning to take root.
In short, Citation Needed.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
...and thirty more clinging to its exterior, along with all their baggage, and dozens of live chickens.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_by_past_GDP_%28PPP%29
Its sourced basically from one guys research, which some people disagree with. But with serious academic research that's practically a tautology.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
Do you know what the worlds two biggest economies were 400 years ago? India and China. Do you know what the worlds two biggest economies will be in 50 years?
let's see, 400 years, 2010 - 400 = 1610
oh, the spanish empire which was starting to decline(you know, that empire which was said that "the sun never sets", later came the british empire but I guess that's the anomaly you mention)
It is a good thing (IMHO) to see more countries developing their own space programs to send their own astronauts to space. To my knowledge, only Russia, U.S. and China have programs that have done so.
Competition always fosters excellence in all areas of academics & sciences.
How about this smart guy:
Let's wait until China quits distorting its markets in such a way that's going to result in a bubble an order of magnitude worse than the one that just burst.
Let's wait until India can pull the other 2/3 (yes, over 650 million) of their people out of subsistence farming.
Trash and bash all you like, but open societies are superior, and even the US is ahead of them in that ball game. The Chinese can only steal so much technology, and the Indians can only ride their one-trick pony so far.
Between crop failures, gender imbalances, and regional tensions, they'll be lucky to be alive in twenty years. All it takes is one Pakistani or Russian nuke to take care of that, and with the run on natural resources in their respective regions don't think it won't happen. Hell, the West should encourage it!
He is probably a follower of the 'knowledge' economy. The idea that patent trolling, proprietary software, and financial derivatives are real tangible goods and you don't need anything else. Any conception of economics that disregards the fact that your economic agents will die after a couple of weeks without food, is simply a joke.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
Really? You think economics began with the steam engine also? Retard.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
Americans break their treaties with Indians again and moving their reservations into space? Greedy oil and mineral companies want all land. Oops, wrong Indians!
Western dominance is an anomaly.
The ancient Romans are on Line 1. They'd like to debate the matter with you and claim to have 400 some odd years of historical reference to draw upon. The Greeks are on Line 2 and claim to have another century or two to contribute.
The West has dominated in a military sense since Salamis. No foreign power has ever managed to achieve total military or economic dominance over the West. There have been periods of Western decline but Western civilization always manages to rebound in the end. I'm not overly concerned about the death of Western civilization.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
NASA isn't completely shutting down it's manned space program with the cancellations, they are just 'off-shoring' it to India...
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
The notion that there is such a strong equivalence between governments "distorting markets" and economic bubbles isn't taken seriously outside libertarian circle-jerks. You do know that, right?
Grinding poverty never seemed to hold the US back... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7106726.stm
Perhaps you missed the Slashdot article about the expansion of basic research in China? And the notion that India is a one trick pony is so bizarre and divorced from reality I don't know how to address it. To be honest, I think you are simply being racist here.
What the hell is that? Did you read that in Guns n' Ammo or something? Its not an argument at all.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
Once they get this technology up and running we can outsource our space science to them too.
I think I could be helpful in producing the needed processed materials.
Well, India is an economy that needs access to space. There's no question of that. Between communication and remote sensing, space is critical to India's long term economic development -- and lifting people out of poverty.
The question is whether it is a good investment, when they can rely on the US and Europe -- at least for non-manned access to space. There is is India's tradition of non-alignment to consider. It is attractive not to be dependent on great powers for something so important. Also, expecting an investment in space to pay off in the short term is unreasonable. Twenty years off India might well become a dominant player in the commercialization of space.
But why manned? If people were computers, it would make no sense. But we're not. We have these irrational emotions that have to be played to get the most out of us. There is something exciting about joining the club of "spacefaring nations", more exciting than putting clever little robots in space. I can see Japanese getting inspired by that, but Japanese engineers are an unique breed I think. Once I saw a Japanese engineer give a presentation about the fuzzy logic algorithm he'd used to control the agitator in a washing machine. We're talking that thing that sticks up in the middle of the washing machine and swishes back and forth. It only has one freaking degree of freedom, and this guy was waxing so poetic about it that he was moved to the brink of tears.
Right then and there I resolved never to invest in an American company that made washing machines.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
ccarson is well-known for replying to FP's with goatse/2g1c links. Please mod down appropriately.
Actually, those are directly related. Part of the reason NASA doesn't have the cash to boldly go, is that they're busy maintaining the ISS, a giant metal albatross. And when one person says "drop the thing and move on," another says "oh, it'd be a shame to waste it just as we're finishing construction".
Revive the Constitution.
If an Indian gives you a time estimate, you need to double it.
"The word is derived from the Sanskrit Jaganntha[1] (meaning "Lord of the Universe") which is one of the many names of Krishna from the ancient Vedic scriptures of India." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juggernaut
Seems like a perfect fit to me.
In other news, Greece has reconfirmed its plans to send men into space, choosing to call them Argonauts. However, critics cite that their plans are "a few thousand years" behind schedule, and technical experts are skeptical of the viability of sheep skin space suits.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
How do they get their spacesuit helmets to fit over their turbans????
So starting in 2017, technical support calls for Hewlett Packard will be routed to space?
Let's hope they can make something sustainable and profitable (Hint: Manned space-based low earth orbit solar power stations are where the money is going to be guys).
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
The moon's first H1B.
So beginning in 2017, all support calls to Hewlett Packard will be routed to space?
IMF World Economic Outlook says India's economy was up 7.3% in 2008, up 5.6% in 2009, and predicted to be up 7.7% in 2010. China's economy was up 9.6% in 2008, up 8.7% in 2009, and predicted to be up 10% in 2010. Meanwhile the United States' economy was up 0.4% in 2008, down 2.5% in 2009, and predicted to be up only 2.7% in 2010.
People are keeping a very close eye on emerging market economies like Brazil, Russia, India, China, Mexico, etc. They have been behind, but that means they have a lot of potential to grow, and many of them have been doing a good job at outpacing the United States' economy in recent years.
That all aside, the original comment for this thread was just stupid. In terms of comedic value it was beyond stale. Other than that it's tasteless. I don't think I've ever been on the phone with a tech support rep who was in India. Meanwhile I've been to India twice in the past few years and know that call centers are just about zero percent of their cultural identity. Just because some Americans have some exposure to this one small profession in India, they have extrapolated it into this whole stereotype for an entire country. I guess that's just ignorance.
If there is any stereotype of Americans which is absolutely accurate, it would be that Americans are ignorant.
Trash and bash all you like, but open societies are superior,
Huh? India certainly has its share of problems, but where do you get the idea that they don't have an "open" society? That criticism would certainly apply to China, where censorship is the norm, but India really isn't that different from the US. You're not going to go to jail there for practicing an unpopular religion like Falun Gong, or criticizing the government. They do have religious tensions and associated violence in rural areas, but a lot of stuff goes on in rural areas in the US that isn't legal either. India has a democratic government just like the US (even though many of its politicians are corrupt, but again, that's just like the US too).
Honestly, while I'd agree that "open societies are superior to closed societies", there really aren't many "closed societies" left: China (which has become a lot more open lately, to be fair), North Korea, Iran, etc. Even Russia isn't a "closed society" any more, since the fall of Communism there.
As for Indians and subsistence farming, that's certainly a far superior way of life than many Americans, who either sit around watching TV while collecting welfare or disability checks, or engage in various scams or MLMs. What percentage of Americans can rightfully claim to be gainfully employed? It seems most of them are just leaches and parasites: MLM members, real estate agents, lawyers, marketers, etc. Very few Americans actually produce anything of value any more.
Imagine the smell in the cramped space module.
Once I saw a Japanese engineer give a presentation about the fuzzy logic algorithm he'd used to control the agitator in a washing machine. We're talking that thing that sticks up in the middle of the washing machine and swishes back and forth. It only has one freaking degree of freedom, and this guy was waxing so poetic about it that he was moved to the brink of tears.
Right then and there I resolved never to invest in an American company that made washing machines.
Really? It makes me want to never invest in a Japanese company that makes washing machines. It's a frelling agitator for crying out loud. Why does it need fuzzy logic at all? Turn one way, then turn the other, repeat. It's not rocket science.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
Once I saw a Japanese engineer give a presentation about the fuzzy logic algorithm he'd used to control the agitator in a washing machine. We're talking that thing that sticks up in the middle of the washing machine and swishes back and forth.
I think you're misunderstanding. He was simply talking about a setting for angora sweaters.
Really? It makes me want to never invest in a Japanese company that makes washing machines. It's a frelling agitator for crying out loud. Why does it need fuzzy logic at all?
I couldn't begin to do justice to this guy's passion for his work, but of course it's nuts to care that much about how to swish clothes more effectively. But the thing about mass produced goods is that what matters is marginal costs. Good design is the feature with the cheapest marginal cost of all. Maybe the computer control went in because it simplified the control system and made the thing cheaper to make, but once you'd done that it doesn't really cost any more to see if you can make it a tiny bit better.
In any case, I just don't believe in betting for the company whose employees are going through the motions asleep out of bed and against the company that has people who love their work.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Rao Yi, a 47-year-old biologist who left Northwestern University in 2007 to become dean of the School of Life Sciences at Peking University in Beijing, contrasts China’s “soul-searching” with America’s self-satisfaction. When the United States Embassy in Beijing asked him to explain why he wanted to renounce his American citizenship, he wrote that the United States had lost its moral leadership after the 9/11 attacks. But “the American people are still reveling in the greatness of the country and themselves,” he said in a draft letter. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/07/world/asia/07scholar.html?pagewanted=all
...though TBH it's slightly hard to look at Persians as "not-West" in this historical context.
One that hath name thou can not otter
One datum to connect the report from TFA (and sadly but in fact detracting from it) and that elsewhere that the Obama budget contains no funding for Constellation:
If India launches people into space in 2016 it'll be the 4th nation but the 5th organization to do so. After China's manned orbital flights but before India's planned missions, two pilots earned their astronaut wings flying SpaceShipOne. TFA says they plan to stay a week, but the title does just say 'space'. After the Rutan Clan, every nation the sends up a space mission will be 'after a private company'.
True, there's an attempt to leave Constellation off the budget (but wait until after ASAP/BigAero has their say). But there's still ongoing support for private programs developing lunar oriented hardware as well as lift vehicles being developed that could make the attempt.
"I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
I'm neither Indian, Chinese nor American, but I truly hate the attitude so many American slashdotters have when the US loses out on some international comparison. I am doubtful that India will make it by 2016 unless they use re-engineered Russian technology, but the mere fact that India is trying while America is both staring at its own navel and running around like a headless chicken speaks volumes.
Being a big fan of Indian cuisine I can't but start wondering what kind of meals the Indian space agency will package and send with cosmonauts. Has there any research been done on how to package naan and curries for extended periods of time?
What do you mean, "moving to become the fourth nation to put a man in space"? He was already in space in 1984. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rakesh_Sharma
I still stand that it's disingenuous to compare the output of Moghul India or China to single European entities in the context of this argument (since today, Europe is a single economic entity for the purposes of this discussion).
Combined, Europe had a larger GDP than India in 1600, though China was very slightly larger.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
http://www.worldmapper.org/display.php?selected=159 http://www.worldmapper.org/display.php?selected=160
Why combine Europe, but not combine India and China? The political reality in 1600 in Europe was a deeply divided one, nothing like the relatively harmonious block we have today.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
damburger, I've read a few of your posts here in this topic, and they're a riot. I'm serious, I haven't laughed this hard since I saw Revenge of the Nerds, and that was back in the 1980s.
Your pro-India stance is literally the funniest thing I've seen in decades. It's hilarious to see you take yourself and India so seriously, when the rest of the world considers you guys to be a silly joke.
The Commonwealth games (yeah, I know you never heard of it) are supposed to happen ~Oct/10 in New Delhi.
Words are that the preparations aren't going well.
If you cannot even host a sporting competition, it doesn't augur well in a space program.
Casino not dot.
Is it certain that they have selected a man, rather than a woman - and if so, why? Is it advantageous to have a penis in space?
It is a common error to delude oneself into believing the trappings of power and strength are power and strength themselves. You see it all the time, when folks fritter away their home equity loans on big-vroom SUVs and fancy appliances, allowing ourselves the delusion (for a temporary while) that we've still "got it made", as long as they have these things around them. In truth, had we the wisdom to forgo these external symbols of a comfortable existence, the American Dream would be much more alive today.
I perceive the response to the U.S. withdrawl from manned space exploration in much the same way. "Asia is taking the lead because they're still launching Spam-in-a-Can into space! Therefore, we need to launch more Spam-in-a-Can, and it will make us stronger!" I find there's a certain cargo-cult mistaking of which was cause, and which was effect. In the past, we have had a great deal of technological innovations associated with the space exploration program -- but it is a mistake to think because we're launching rockets we're driving innovation. It is was exactly the other way around; because we had a such strong base in engineering and science we were able to create the technologies to launch those rockets.
China and India's increasing economic and technological competence are what have allowed them to take the lead now, and it's a mistake to think that we can stay ahead if we just keep up with appearances. We can play mid-life crisis and blow our remaining resources on the equivalent of a fancy sports car, and make-believe we're still a studly, vigorous nation. But to the rest of the world, we just look increasingly ridiculous.
It's sad when someone is this unaware of history.
The same criticisms were brought up in the U.S. during the Apollo project. Why send a man to the moon when people in Harlem didn't have basic health services? You might want to check out "Whitey on the Moon" by Gil Scott-Heron. Opening lines:
A rat done bit my sister Nell.
(with Whitey on the moon)
Her face and arms began to swell.
(and Whitey's on the moon)
I can't pay no doctor bill.
(but Whitey's on the moon)
Ten years from now I'll be payin' still.
(while Whitey's on the moon)
In hindsight, I think you'd agree that the whole manned space thing was probably worth it...
Support microSD: in a post 9/11 world, it is unwise to carry your data on media that you cannot comfortably swallow.
Talk about your playstation generation. 5 years is not long term, except in political circles where it's past the next election.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
The question is whether it is a good investment, when they can rely on the US and Europe -- at least for non-manned access to space.
We don't have to. We've had that capability for about 35 years now, starting with SLV-3 in the 70s, and going upto ASLV, PSLV and now GSLV (look em all up on Wiki).
India's first satellite, Aryabhata was launched in 1975. Since then, we've made incremental advances in homegrown launch technology (with the aforementioned vehicles) and India's ISRO now also launches satellites for other countries.
Chandrayaan was the first time we sent anything beyond Earth's orbit, and the manned mission follows as the next logical step.
"..One hosts to look them up, one DNS to find them, and in the darkness BIND them."
...killing all in order to avoid hitting a sacred cow jumping over the moon.
I foresee the powerful astronaut union becoming upset by the outsourcing of jobs here.
I dont care what color their skin is as long as they aren't stoopid! (can i get a hells yeah?)
Because you're projecting on world economies TODAY and in the future, where Europe is a single unit economically.
The only reason why not combining Europe into a single unit would make sense is if you believed that the currently-growing European economic hegemony will disintegrate during the scope of your prediction.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
"Poverty in India is widespread with the nation estimated to have a third of the world's poor. According to the criterion used by the Planning Commission of India 27.5% of the population was living below the poverty line in 2004-2005"
Perhaps those funds earmarked for space exploration might be better spent on helping people not starve ?