Eight PHP IDEs Compared

snydeq writes "InfoWorld's Rick Grehen provides an in-depth comparative review of eight PHP IDEs: ActiveState's Komodo IDE, CodeLobster PHP Edition, Eclipse PHP Development Tools (PDT), MPSoftware's phpDesigner, NetBeans IDE for PHP, NuSphere's PhpED, WaterProof's PHPEdit, and Zend Studio. 'All of these PHP toolkits offer strong support for the other languages and environments (HTML, CSS, JavaScript, SQL database) that a PHP developer encounters. The key differences we discovered were in the tools they provide (HTML inspector, SQL management system) for various tasks, the quality of their documentation, and general ease-of-use,' Grehen writes.'"

Comments

Do any of them assess performance?

[jeffmeden]

This is not a troll, I swear! Are there any good performance assessment tools used during development? If so, do they work well with any of these IDEs? I don't do a lot of PHP work but it would be nice to have a tool that could audit code, advise on which lines were the most resource-intensive, and recommend lighter weight procedures.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[tarius8105]

I personally use Netbeans. I dont like eclipse too much, I think its a little more bloated for my needs, but others swear by it. Netbeans just has a lot of the features out of the box where as eclipse you have to download everything and install it but on the other hand eclipse can have more features and plugins than Netbeans. It boils down to what you need. The only concern I have with Netbeans, prior to 6.8, was that after long periods of time running I would notice it was leaking memory and started to slow down.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[tarius8105]

I think I went off on something else instead of addressing the point, but if I remember there are profilers out there both eclipse and netbeans to show where the script is spending most of its time. I think with Netbeans it uses the PHP debugger but there is also another that you can build right into PHP.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[IpSo_]

Have you tried using PHP's Xdebug extension with CacheGrind (I prefer KCacheGrind for KDE), it works wonders.

I haven't found any IDE's that integrate such functionality, but I don't really see a need for it as KCacheGrind works so well as it is.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[Anonymous Coward]

Care to give any examples?!?

Reading both of your posts made me dumber.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[Lord Ender]

For web apps (PHP), the most resource-intensive lines are those that hit the database. How fast they are depends on what's in the database.

What you ask is not possible for an IDE to do.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[sopssa]

Actually that might include the database queries and such too, as he specifically said what lines are most resource-intensive and such. Xdebug is the answer here and I think most IDE's support it, either directly or via hack-it-in. Now it doesn't provide lighter weight hints (that's your job as a programmer), but it shows you a lot of information about the bottlenecks.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[kv9]

Most of these IDEs integrate with some sort of debugger AFAIK. I have tried them all but none can beat the simplicity of EditPlus (on Windows at least).

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[capitaladot]

There's also WinCacheGrind (http://wincachegrind.sourceforge.net).

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[Anonymous Coward]

I do most of my work in PHP and to be honest, I very rarely have to worry about the performance of PHP code itself. Most of the performance bottlenecks at the database, especially when some developers choose to pull back 100,000 rows in order to show you 20 of them. I'm not sure how an IDE could detect this type of abuse when analyzing code for performance.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[Hurricane78]

But... but... optimizing performance in PHP, is like optimizing performance on a tricycle with four-wheel drive and square wheels. ^^
The best optimization for PHP: Move to a real language! ;)

(Ex 5-year professional PHP developer here, who actually managed to write properly designed software in it, and therefore knows extremely well what PHP is and can’t do.)

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[Fozzyuw]

What's a "real language" compared to PHP?

JSP, ASP, Python, Perl?

And by 'real language' do you something that's pre-compiled? Something with variable declarations (not loosly typed), etc?

I'm curious to learn. I'm a PHP web developer.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[sopssa]

You probably didn't work with large enough projects then. You do know optimization is a bit more than making a script that tests whether print() or echo() works faster?

First of all you need to know what are the bottlenecks on the script, and this includes SQL queries and working with data or files, or remote connections. You work to optimize those queries first. If you still need to go further, you start putting some data in memcache so you don't need to always run the same queries. Knowing what queries are the bottlenecks is how you can improve your database structure too. Are writing operations taking too long? Maybe you should have a master sql server for writing and slaves for reading data. Are you fetching data over the internet or doing some heavy queries that is causing the page for the user to load slowly - maybe it's time to fork the work to separate process and let the page load faster for the user.

All this comes really relevant when running actually large sites, and this is where the professional IDE's shine.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[Anonymous Coward]

asp is a turd. VB(script) is one of the few languages that makes PHP look good. JScript is what PHP wishes it could be, but asp treats it as a second class citizen. asp.net is decent.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[kestasjk]

You need to use Xdebug (you could use Zend's commercial platform software, but that's expensive and you don't need it). You activate it, and it'll log all sessions to profile data files if you configure it to. Then you download "WinCacheGrind" or something, which will open these profile data files for analysis.

However WinCacheGrind is an old piece of software that hasn't got new features for a long time. It does the job, but it's not great. It's a clone of a more advanced KDE application which does the same thing, but it definitely has fewer features.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[Anonymous Coward]

"I dont like eclipse too much, I think its a little more bloated for my needs"
and
"Netbeans just has a lot of the features out of the box where as eclipse you have to download everything"
are contradictory statements.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[Anonymous Coward]

How ever the above statement completely ignores the back end PHP which can be *more* expensive computationally.

- Guy that works for a company using a linux appliance to enable "backup to the cloud", with everything including LZMA and data dedupe written in PHP.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[moexu]

I used to use Eclipse when I was primarily doing Java development with a little bit of PHP support but now that I've changed jobs and almost exclusively work in PHP I use NetBeans. PHP support seems to be a lot better integrated and debugging was easy to get working. The only real issue I have with NetBeans is that it doesn't support as many languages - I occasionally need to work in Perl and it's pretty weak for that.

I'm concerned that with Oracle purchasing Sun and having their own IDE that Oracle will kill off support for NetBeans. Their announcement that the next JavaOne won't include presentations about other languages that use the JVM looks to be a portent.

I was also surprised that so many of these tools are Windows-only since PHP is usually the P in LAMP.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[DiegoBravo]

I'm not trying to demote PHP (I used it a lot of time some years ago and I think is a very good tool for some specific situations.) At least to me, the (oversimplified) "real language" phrase of GP is related to the bad design or simply no design emphasis from the basic documents, tutorials and the PHP community as a whole. Of course it is not very visible until you check the "hot topics" discussed in other languages' communities. I think for example in the OO/design patterns things, connection pooling strategies, O/R mapping, the flexibility available in auxiliary frameworks for whatever things, functional constructs, etc. Maybe a look in Ruby or Java is advised.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[Davorama]

True, but if you are optimizing, you've already gone past that and most of the time everything is coming out of memcache or some such thing. Now you want to profile the rest of your app.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[tarius8105]

Yes, I do realize it seems like that but let me add some clarity. The features provided by Netbeans out of the box is mostly what everyone would just use. The way they have distributed Netbeans is no different then the way I've seen eclipse distributed, except its centralized at their website. I can download ordinary eclipse which supports Java only initially, or I can download eclipse with PHP PDT from the PDT website. Netbeans provides the same functionality except I do not have to goto a different website. As for the other features, it just seems to be more work to install them. Again this is just my experience with it, I know others who love eclipse for its flexiblity which Netbeans doesnt seem to have because it did a trade off for ease of use.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[sopssa]

I was also surprised that so many of these tools are Windows-only since PHP is usually the P in LAMP.

Well LAMP refers to servers. Not that there wouldn't be any Linux IDE's or developers, but Windows still dominates on desktop. I also do development and coding on Windows, but work on remote files hosted on Linux server, and don't even try to make the code to support Windows as Linux dominates so much on servers.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[thetoadwarrior]

Make sure you get the PHP only version of Netbeans if you're concerned with speed.

Eclipse does have more plugins but it's just not as nice. Netbeans pretty much does everything I want. There are extra plug-ins in the plugins menu and project Kenai had some decent plugins. Shame its getting the axe but hopefully it won't be too hard to find the plugins again as they move to other sites.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[thetoadwarrior]

Netbeans additions also feel like better. Where as Eclipse plugins are a mixed bag and Eclipse performance starts dropping through the floor once you take advantage of the variety of plugins.

It's GUI is also poorly done because it sucks on smaller screens. Some of us do code on the bus/train and a netbook just makes sense and while Eclipse mostly works well on an EEE screen, there are a few config menus that aren't done. All their menus need to be wrapped in scroll panes.

Imo, Netbeans has improve significantly from the pre 6 versions to 6.8. I really hope Oracle isn't dumb enough to fuck with it and ruin it.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[Toonol]

"I dont like eclipse too much, I think its a little more bloated for my needs"
and
"Netbeans just has a lot of the features out of the box where as eclipse you have to download everything" are contradictory statements.

Replace Eclipse with Firefox, and Netbeans with Opera. You'll see the statement isn't contradictory at all. It may be true or false, but that depends on the quality of the program and how well the built-in functionality matches the normal use.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[Korin43]

The Netbeans profiler doesn't work for php :(

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[Anonymous Coward]

People who use the construct "real whatever" are basically ignorable. They have no decent advice, just a lot of loudmouth opinions.

Re:Do any of them assess performance?

[Golthar]

Oracle has already announced that Netbeans will stay and be developed more.
Depending on the FAQ you access Netbeans will focus more on Java and/or Dynamic languages (which includes PHP)

VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[BadAnalogyGuy]

How is it that when given a set of options, the majority of users will select the worst possible one?

They didn't review Notepad, but I would wager that it is pretty well used by a majority of PHP "developers"

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[Xest]

Because consumers aren't always given an equal choice.

Look at the HD wars, Bluray won, not because it was the better format for the consumer per-se, but because it gained a large lead by being included in the PS3, and ultimately because the studios all decided to back it as it had stronger DRM.

HD-DVD kit was cheaper, region free, and had less troublesome DRM as well as dual DVD/HD-DVD discs actually on the market, I suspect all things being equal these factors alone would've made it the consumer choice otherwise.

I don't really know the VHS war well enough, in fact, I can't even really remember what was going on when x86 and Windows really started to gain traction, but I suspect it wasn't simply down to consumer choice. As such, I don't think users select the worst choice, I think they're just somewhat forced into it- good luck getting HD-DVD now for example, the format is gone before HD media has still even really gone mainstream hence the "majority of users" don't even get a choice, many probably wont even realise there ever was a choice.

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Bluray didn't win.

I won, because I stopped buying DVDs, and now pirate 100% of my films.

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[sopssa]

Bad troll is bad. No one who *professionally* works with PHP and in other web development uses freaking Notepad.

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Cool, so you feel entitled to have something for free, not respecting licenses or copyright. That's the open source community for you. Er... sorry, except for GPL of course!!!!

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[Xest]

Hehe, I didn't notice that line for some reason when I made my reply, but to be fair he didn't use the term professionally so he's probably right- most PHP developers are far from professional after all ;)

Developing large scale web applications where you need more than just a bunch of php files and need a decent folder structure ala most MVC frameworks becomes a pain without a proper IDE as you note.

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[mfnickster]

> Cool, so you feel entitled to have something for free, not respecting licenses or copyright.

Oh, put a cork in it.

The studios have ripped us off for years by collusion (price fixing) and by getting a cut of every blank CD/DVD sold, so don't act like they aren't trying to get something for free also.

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[mR.bRiGhTsId3]

Pirating is the wrong answer. If you feel so strongly you go without. By pirating the lack of any meaningful moral conviction shows through.

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[toastar]

So they have Eclipse but Not Dreamweaver?

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

You can justify it any way you want, but in the end it all comes down to the fact that you "want" the movies more than your wish to "follow your ideals", so you turn to piracy. But no hard feelings, you are just like pretty much everyone else. E.g. "someone did something to me, then I'm allowed to do something back".

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[classified]

Yea, I thought it was weird that a review of PHP IDEs omitted Dreamweaver; I have tried at least 4 of the IDEs they list, and used Coda on Mac until I got Dreamweaver. My preference is still Homesite (the old Allaire product that morphed into DW after macromedia bought it). But, homesite only runs on windows, so on a mac IMO Dreamweaver CS4 works better than all of them and allows me to do a lot of pretty fast validation and integrity checking. /mike

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[musicalmicah]

I think they didn't review Notepad because it's not an integrated development environment.

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice view from waaaayyy up on that horse?

If the media companies expect moral behaviour, I'd suggest they set an example first. Not very moral, sure, but that's why so few people are truly moral day to day. The cliche is two wrongs don't make a right, but it's hard to feel guilty when the companies act like thieves, asses, and bullies.

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[EkriirkE]

That's what I use... or gedit in lunix or vim(m) when ssh'ing

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[KingPin27]

Bad troll is bad. No one who *professionally* works with PHP and in other web development uses freaking Notepad.

you're right -- I used to use Emacs but no i've switched to VI -- Notepad doesn't work in my OS of choice (natively)

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[thetoadwarrior]

Which explains why PHP often looks so fucking ugly.

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[thetoadwarrior]

Dreamweaver is very expensive for something that (last I used it) still lacked some features you'd expect from an IDE of that price and quite frankly I'm not sure I trust a program to check my PHP when it generates shit PHP itself.

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[enoz]

HD-DVD kit was cheaper, region free, and had less troublesome DRM as well as dual DVD/HD-DVD discs actually on the market, I suspect all things being equal these factors alone would've made it the consumer choice otherwise.

In Blu-Ray's favour it has more than double the storage capacity of HD DVD (25GB vs 12GB). Consumers as a whole don't care about DRM or Region Coding, they care about shiny discs and big flat-screen TVs.

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[ErikZ]

Pirating IS the wrong answer.

Copying is ok though.

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[Draek]

Not that I support piracy, but pirates often follow the GPL's ideology anyways: they're happy to share what they've just acquired, and plenty of them improve what they get, then share it in the same manner (hence the hundreds upon hundreds of WinXP torrents on TPB et al, seems everybody and their dog has their own 'mix' of the thing). And they generally dismiss anybody who tries to prevent said sharing as a poor idiot trying to block the sun with a finger.

Besides, I'd say the pro-piracy group here at Slashdot is one of the most vocal *anti*-GPL people we have around here. Or what, did you think that the hundreds of "OMG Gimp sux Photoshop rulezzz!!!!" trolls *bought* the goddamned thing!? (and btw no, that doesn't contradict the above paragraph, we get the *stupid* pirates here at Slashdot, the smarter ones are too busy sharing stuff to care).

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[mfnickster]

Oh, I'm not advocating copyright infringement. I'm just pointing out the studios don't respect copyright either, given what they've done to the law and the distribution system to protect their profits.

They are NOT victims - the artists, authors, and consumers are.

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[Firehed]

Well technically it was less than double, as HD-DVD was 15GB, not 12. More importantly, consumers care about cheap - so it's actually quite remarkable that blu-ray "won" (I use the word loosely as DVD is still dominating and plenty of people seem to be skipping HD discs in favor of downloads and streaming)

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[Xest]

Size still wouldn't be a factor in consumer choice though anyway, as all most people would care about is that a 1080p movie fits on a single disc, which in both cases it would.

People don't care about DRM per-se, but they care when problems arise, as they have with BD+ DRM, reports of things not working would've pushed things away from Bluray, if there had still been an alternative when the problems arose. I'm not sure where you live, but in Europe region coding is certainly a big deal amongst the general population, but the travelling population of anywhere across the world will also care- I can't count the amount of times I've wanted to bring back a movie or game from trips to North America as presents for example but not been able to because of region coding. Similarly here in Europe we still often have to wait 6months+ after the US has received movie releases to get them, so most people just resort to piracy instead when they can't simply import them or buy region 1 discs locally.

Re:VHS, x86, Microsoft Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

No one works professionally with PHP.

Left out my favorite

[anss123]

DevPHP is AFAIK open source and works pretty well for me.

Re:Left out my favorite

[Xest]

Yeah, they also gave Zend 9/10 for tools and 10/10 for Value when it's basically just Eclipse PDT with a toolbar button for the command line tool that comes free with the Zend framework and costs $399 per year for the privilege.

Well, I suppose it can do more if you pay an extra $1195 per year for Zend server. Did I mention that Zend server is basically little more than just a pre-configured Apache setup?

Perhaps I've been spoilt by Visual Studio which actually costs much less and gives you far more, or the fact that 99.99% of Zend Studio's functionality is just inherited from Eclipse which is free, but the idea of giving Zend Studio 10/10 for value is er, baffling to say the least- at least their 9/10 for tools can be somewhat justified by the fact most of them are just inherited from the free tools Eclipse provides.

I suppose at least they still gave positive reviews of the other IDEs, but the idea that Zend Studio is somehow better than them, well, I'm not really sure there's a word for how simply not true that is.

So er yeah, still, most the article is probably one of the finest loads of bollocks I've ever seen which is quite impressive, sseing as I've often made the mistake of reading The Register which is basically like a bollocks farm.

Re:Left out my favorite

[Aladrin]

I'm still trying to figure out the 'value' column and what it could possibly mean. It's not the average, since that's to the right already. It's not the mmph per dollar, since that would infinity for some of them... It's not even a personal opinion, considering that Eclipse/PDT and Zend got exactly the same value, even though 1 is free and the other is not.

I've been forced to come to the conclusion that it means 'we were paid to make this come out better.'

Re:Left out my favorite

[kestasjk]

I support Zend in their quest to get money, because it lets them create great things like the Zend Framework (which is free). Those are business guy prices, for busy/lazy/rich IT staff who don't even want to configure Apache or set up debugging in Eclipse with Xdebug.

Want debugging? Eclipse and Xdebug, you can even get Zend's own debugging system by downloading their shared object file which is free. Same goes for profiling, auto-completion, etc, you can get it yourself with a bit of work if you don't want to pay.
If someone with too much money supports Zend out of laziness I'm okay with that.

Re:Left out my favorite

[Xest]

I don't disagree that it's good that Zend gets money as I too am a big fan of the Zend framework- in fact, I think it's the best PHP framework there is, the rest seem to be bloated, or crappy in some other way.

But I do still take issue with Zend studio, it's just so lacking in features that I reall am amazed they charge for it. Effectively, there's making money, then there's completely and utterly taking the piss. I feel Zend Studio is certainly in the realms of taking the piss. That said, I guess as you say if people want to pay it, then let them pay it, I suppose it's not as if there isn't a demo available, so people certainly know what they're letting themselves in for at least.

yep

[stoolpigeon]

Two of the top choices are free and open. I don't know how people who build proprietary tools are going to stay in business. It's not like the commercial stuff crushed the open stuff in this comparison. I've moved to Netbeans for pretty much everything. It's a solid, multiplatform solution and the open nature is very nice. Komodo is built on an open editor, but moving up to the full featured IDE is pretty pricey. At $399 a pop I've never tried Zend Studio and based on this - I don't think I'm missing much.

Re:yep

[sopssa]

Personally I wasn't really happy with Eclipse or other open source solutions. The GUI plain and simply sucks, isn't that good to customize and provides too less information and actions. People say its a powerful tool once you learn to use it, but why should I spend time on that when there are better alternatives (and which provide more features)?

Personally I've tried pretty much all of the IDE's mentioned in this article and finally went and bought WaterProof's PHPEdit. In my opinion, it's the most comprehensive PHP IDE there is.
- Debugging options are *great* (like comparing vi to Visual Studio)
- GUI shows lots of information, but doesn't bloat it - panels roll in and out when they're needed (if wanted)
- GUI is totally customizable, there's scripting language to do it too. One of the first options I did was change ctrl+s to save local version, save cvs version and publish testing machine version, but not publish on live site, all on press of ctrl+s. On toolbar I added a separate button to publish the new version on live site.
- Another point about the great debugging options that the article mentions too, you can simultaneously debug PHP and Javascript. This is something you really miss in other IDE's once you've tried it.
- PHP files usually have mixed PHP, HTML, JavaScript and SQL. Once you move your cursor over a single block, it highlights and colors with the correct language and makes the other languages a little bit more transparent - you can easily see for example all blocks of JavaScript or SQL code.
- Preview lets you view what your site looks on all IE, Firefox, Safari and Opera
- Too many other features to list which I think should be in all IDE's, but are not :) And haven't even got around to learning all things yet.

Now that being said, it is probably too heavy for a PHP coder that isn't coding professionally. Many amateur C++ programmers go just with Dev-C++ too, but professionals and those coding for living almost always appreciate the powerful suite that Visual Studio is. Proprietary tools stay in business because of this - they're much more polished and complete than their open source alternatives. And if you're working on it professionally, paying for the good tools doesn't really matter that much if it saves you time and from headache.

Re:yep

[Qzukk]

If I'm going to use an IDE for web development, I only have one question: Can it work over ssh? My test server is sitting in a rack somewhere else, never mind the production server.

Re:yep

[stoolpigeon]

At least the price isn't too crazy. But you are right, I'd need to be doing full time professional work to move away from Netbeans.

And even then I still might not do it, as Netbeans supports so many languages and platforms. If I were working all the time in one language I could see an IDE focused on that language. But the reality is that day to day I'm dealing with a multitude of languages and platforms.

Re:yep

[Anonymous Coward]

Excellent point. Honestly I really don't care for rsyncing stuff backwards and forwards all the time, this is why I stick to vi.

Re:yep

[bl8n8r]

> it's the most comprehensive PHP IDE there is.

Perhaps. If you run windows. The lack of cross platform options is a massive fail IMO.

Re:yep

[kestasjk]

All that stuff also applies to Eclipse, but the advantage Eclipse has is that if I want to switch over to C development with OpenGL no problem (with a gdb-shell debugging), if I want to work on a large perl/SQLite script I can (with debugging), same for python, etc. The only other IDE you need is Visual Studio for writing .NET apps, no need to have an IDE for PHP which can't be used for anything else.

Re:yep

[musicalmicah]

I don't have the inclination to try out a bunch of different IDEs, but one of my associates recommended a particular $99/license IDE to me, and getting it was as simply as sending an email request to my boss and getting a response that simply read "Confirmed." A day's pay to enhance a developer's productivity generally isn't even worth blinking at for management.

Re:yep

[Steauengeglase]

After going around the block a few times I've had to come to the conclusion that GUIs can suck and so long as the application is robust enough to suit my needs. This is fine. Work flow is the real deal breaker. To cite a popular example, you have Blender and Gimp. Both have UIs that are far from friendly to the user, but once you get around the mountain of key commands and oddly placed boxes, Blender is a perfectly fine program, while Gimp still feels like a box of tangled yarn. Eclipse is a similar situation. After you get past its idiosyncrasies you can get the job done. Now whether or not developers should have to deal with getting to know the ins and outs of a UI (yes, the irony of that doesn't escape me), is a completely different question.

Re:yep

[rycamor]

Agreed. I'm not much for IDEs, but for text editors my two favorite choices are

Windows:
- UltraEdit (very nice SSH/SFTP integration)

Linux:
- Kate (KDE Advanced Text Editor) using KDE's fish://user@server/path/to protocol

Also, both support column-mode editing, which is my other non-negotiable.

Re:yep

[fm6]

That's not your only solution. If your web server's OS supports the IDE, you're all set. If the server runs Windows, you can access it via Remote Desktop. If it runs Linux, then you just have to point the DISPLAY variable at your local machine.

Re:yep

[thetoadwarrior]

Zend is just Eclipse with some plugin functionality you can get elsewhere (or from Zend themselves) so two of the top options are basically one because I think you'd have to be really stupid to pay $400 for Eclipse.

Re:yep

[Qzukk]

column-mode editing

OK, I didn't know what that was called, but it's pretty damn awesome.

vim can do that with visual block mode (^V), though it doesn't quite work the same way (you can't create a zero-width column, but you can Insert text at the left edge of all rows of a block

Re:yep

[Anonymous Coward]

Eclipse drove me away because complex open source projects were hard to pick up and debug quickly.
phpEd on the other hand, rocked. It's the only IDE I've ever liked as much as visual studio. You don't have to setup debugging, since it just works. IntelliSense works well and fast. Importing complex pre-existing projects is totally unproblematic, and the interface is completely intuitive (although I'm never 100% happy with not having vim keybindings). If I developed in PHP more than twice a year, I would pay for it out of my own pocket for the time savings.

what i'd like in an IDE

[i.r.id10t]

What I would like for an IDE is something similar to VB, where you can actually run the PHP, set break points, watch variable values, etc.

Since that doesn't exist as far as I know, I guess I will keep running a local instance of apache, php, mysql, etc. and throwing in lots of extra print("\n\n") statements

Re:what i'd like in an IDE

[PsychoPingu]

Eclipse can do it with PHP and XDebug if its running on Apache: http://robsnotebook.com/php_debugger_pdt_xdebug

Re:what i'd like in an IDE

[Anonymous Coward]

Try using Eclipse PDT along with Xdebug, it gives you all the debugging features you mention and more.

Re:what i'd like in an IDE

[Tomun]

Netbeans does that too.

Re:what i'd like in an IDE

[dafdaf]

Eclipse (PDT), Zend IDE and Netbeans can debug local and remotely. We're just evaluating our future PHP-IDE, so the article comes in handy. The only thing missing: It seems that the Zend IDE is the only solution providing an easy to use profiling tool for PHP.

Re:what i'd like in an IDE

[dafdaf]

Eclipse also works with the Zend Debugger ! - And it works both local and remotely.

Re:what i'd like in an IDE

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you can set break points and watch variables, etc with PHPEdit as well.

At least I was able to, when I last used it a few years back.

Am sure it is probably even better now.

Eclipse PDT?

[KermodeBear]

Eclipse PHP Development Tools 2.1.2 received an overall score of 8.8. I'm not sure why. I have tried this on several occasions and I find the interface confusing, the software itself bloated and slow, and the internal plugin manager is always broken and can't download dependencies correctly - if at all.

Sure, there are posts all over the place that are supposed to help fix these issues: Download X from Y, and A from B, and then modify this configuration, and, and, and... ...and I shouldn't have to. It should 'just work'. I spent half a day trying to get the SFTP plugin installed and working and I gave up. I don't have time for that.

My personal favorite, as far as 'large' IDEs go, is Zend Studio - the last version before they moved over onto the Eclipse Framework.

Re:Eclipse PDT?

[tarius8105]

The old Zend Studio was great for debugging, but it suffered from the closed platform that you were locked into the feature sets provided. They moved over to eclipse to leverage the framework without having to do as much work for the IDE, the issue was they were suffering from lack of plugins that people wanted.

Re:Eclipse PDT?

[sopssa]

I agree with you, Eclipse is too much work. I want to work with my PHP code, not the IDE. Personally I use Waterproof's PHPEdit and love it.

Re:Eclipse PDT?

[ionix5891]

same here im still on Zend 5.5

new Zend based on Eclipse and Eclipse PDT and Netbeans are just to "slow" and i have a nice workstation

Re:Eclipse PDT?

[elfprince13]

Eclipse in general is a pain in the ass. I've never used Komodo IDE because I have no interest in BUYING an IDE for hobby development, but Komodo Edit is a joy to use, so I would think that Komodo IDE can only be better.

Re:Eclipse PDT?

[kestasjk]

It is all workable, once you get Eclipse working it'll work from that point on. I wrote a guide on setting up debugging, it took a while but once you've done it once you're set, and you're not out by $xxx dollars per year.

Re:Eclipse PDT?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right, Eclipse is waaay too hard for php developers. When will the real programmers understand that phpers need things to be easy? I mean, like, really, really easy. Computers are hard.

Re:Eclipse PDT?

[thetoadwarrior]

Eclipse in general is pretty rubbish and lacks and professional shine even for an open source product, imo. But it will be popular because using something that's broken to code makes you a better coder apparently.

PHP is cross-platform

[bcmm]

PHP is cross-platform. Who the hell develops on Windows on purpose?

Re:PHP is cross-platform

[sopssa]

I use Windows for other work and gaming at the same time as I develop PHP, and my favorite IDE (WaterProof's PHPEdit) isn't available for Linux. Why wouldn't I use Windows? That being said the files are always saved both locally and remotely at the same time, and run on Linux servers.

Re:PHP is cross-platform

[anss123]

PHP is cross-platform. Who the hell develops on Windows on purpose?

Raises hand

Re:PHP is cross-platform

[jeffmeden]

Gaming while you develop php? Wow either you are a God among men, or your games are full of chat like printf("fsck off you noob"); and your PHP code is full of wwwwwwwwaawwdadsdwwwwwwdadadwwwww...

do tell!

Re:PHP is cross-platform

[Xest]

People who don't want to recompile their kernel, and edit their x config with a command just to get their video card to work mostly.

Re:PHP is cross-platform

[Anonymous Coward]

You're probably trying to be funny, but you might get modded troll for that.

Re:PHP is cross-platform

[ianare]

Masochists.

Re:PHP is cross-platform

[sopssa]

That was a bit badly worded sentence, but I mean everything else I use is on Windows too. And since Windows has great IDE's, why would I dual-boot.

But on a related note, sometimes I have actually taken a quick round of plants vs zombies or similar quick game while waiting for large database queries to run.

Re:PHP is cross-platform

[Galactic Dominator]

wow, seems like a lot of pain to avoid:

X -configure

Re:PHP is cross-platform

[Anne Thwacks]

Gaming while you develop php?

I hope he is working on an IDE where you write PHP by throwing cowdung at the screen with your Wiimote. I have proposed this numerous times. It just seems so apt. (The duificult is that the SQl development probably relies on a level where you are wresting with aligators).Stomping on bugs would be good using the Wii balance board!

Re:PHP is cross-platform

[Anonymous Coward]

People who don't want to recompile their kernel, and edit their x config with a command just to get their video card to work mostly.

This post brought to you from 1999. Now sit back, relax and enjoy the Latin flavored sounds of Santana featuring Rob Thomas with Smooth, you're listening to KLSR the cutting edge, 10 years late.

Re:PHP is cross-platform

[thewils]

I'm dreaming of the OS or Database, whatever, where in order to delete a user you have to run and fetch the BFG9000 or similar. That would be heaven.

Re:PHP is cross-platform

[thetoadwarrior]

I had to do that once like 5+ years ago. Other than that Ubuntu has always been just as easy to use as Windows. Often better in my opinion thanks to the package manager.

Re:PHP is cross-platform

[marsu_k]

Don't know about users, how about processes?

Re:PHP is cross-platform

[Xest]

Yeah I was only joking, I agree Ubuntu is just as easy to install and use as Windows now. Sometimes you still get issues with certain hardware that can be a pain to fix, but Linux as a desktop OS is getting there for sure.

Re:PHP is cross-platform

[Anonymous Coward]

Why wouldn't I use Windows?

Unix. Real shells, pipes, awk, sed, sort, grep, find, xargs. I've never found an IDE that comes close to Unix in terms of flexibility, and I'm certain I never will.

Re:PHP is cross-platform

[Anonymous Coward]

That guy deserves a fucking IT Oscar or something.

Coda

[acomj]

I use panic software's CODA for my php development (OSX). Its not really as full featured as these (no debugger), but for the fairly basic php web sites I code, it works great. I like that you can click a tab and snap into the page your creating in a functional browser. I use YourSQL for MYSQL database management, which still works but is no longer being developed.

Re:Coda

[stoolpigeon]

You might want to look at MySQL Workbench. I've been messing with it a bit for a couple weeks and really like it so far. I'm running it on Fedora but there is an OSX release.

Re:Coda

[Anonymous Coward]

Also check out Sequel Pro (http://www.sequelpro.com) for MySQL database management - they've taken the venerable CocoaMySQL and are really running with it, pretty awesome app and free!

Re:Coda

[Anonymous Coward]

You also might want to check out Sequel Pro (successor to CocoaMySQL). Also, I like Aptana, its Eclipse but easier to use.

Re:Coda

[lunatic77]

MySQL Workbench is possibly the most unstable software I've ever used on a Mac.

IMHO the only two tools you'd want to use on a Mac for MySQL are
1. Navicat (ugly/annoying UI but great admin tools)
2. Querious (great UI but light on the admin tools)

Nonetheless, I'm a big fan of Coda for PHP development, even though there's no debugger. It's got a top-notch UI, great site configuration management tools, SFTP, FTPS/TLS, Subversion integration, solid syntax highlighting, and resource books built-in if you need them. Highly recommended!

Re:Coda

[Anonymous Coward]

I also use coda, mainly for html/css but also some javascript, php, and perl. I paid mega bucks for CS3 everything but haven't used Dreamweaver since I discovered coda. Ok, that's not strictly true as I use dreamweaver at work, but adobe's macintosh shit is an abomination.

Re:Coda

[tendrousbeastie]

I must admit I find Navicat to be a huge help and a massive time saver.

Re:Coda

[fusiongyro]

I also thought this was an odd omission. I have three or four editors I use on my Mac, but Coda is the only one I'd go near PHP with.

Performances anyone?

[Rhaban]

I usually use eclipse PDT on windows, but it doesn't scale well with really big projects (anything base on ez publish, a CMS often used in the company I work for): the code completion system becomes a nightmare, as everytime I begin typing a function name it freezes several seconds as if parsing every file on the hard drive to find if it already exists somewhere.
I tried netbeans, and the problem is the same. I end up with and IDE where the only features I use are syntax coloring, functions folding, and file structure outline.

On smaller projets it's very useful to jump to the defincition of a class/function just by hitting F3 while the cursor is on the function name, regardless of what file it is declared in. I really miss it on big projects, where it could be even more useful.

huh?

[Anonymous Coward]

Komodo has been doing that for years and I'm sure the others do too. You need to read up on xdebug. You're talking about line-by-line debugging. I'm almost wondering whether this is post bait...

look up "xdebug remote debugging" in google

I'm pretty over IDEs

[TofuMatt]

Aside from using XCode, I pretty much never use IDEs, especially for web development. I just use TextMate for anything not in XCode (and I even edit a lot of C/C++/Obj-C in XCode nowadays, and other apps for performance, testing, etc. (or write TextMate commands to run external commands).

Re:I'm pretty over IDEs

[Jake Griffin]

http://developer.apple.com/technology/xcode.html - "Xcode is a free download and includes the Xcode IDE..."

So, what you're saying is that aside from using an IDE, you pretty much never use IDEs? Just because XCode is from the same company you got your OS from doesn't mean it's not an IDE. BTW, I use XCode almost exclusively as well, so don't think I'm knocking the application, just saying that it most definitely is an IDE.

Re:I'm pretty over IDEs

[blackfrancis75]

it'd be even more 'Informative' if you specified what it is about IDEs you consider disadvantageous

Re:I'm pretty over IDEs

[larry bagina]

Aside from using one specific IDE, he pretty much never uses IDEs. Here are some more for you to practice on:

Aside from tylenol, I pretty much never use drugs.

Aside from kathleen fent, I pretty much never fuck fat girls.

Aside from New Year's eve, I pretty much never get shit faced.

Re:I'm pretty over IDEs

[TofuMatt]

I very rarely use XCode, and only use it when developing Mac/iPhone stuff. Largely because of Interface Builder, all that sort of stuff -- using XCode makes sense then. But I write big projects in OO PHP, Ruby, etc., and use TextMate projects for all of it.

I should have said that while I do use XCode, I don't spend most of my time in it even when I do, and don't think I take too much advantage of its IDE-ness. Maybe I just suck at using IDEs?

Re:I'm pretty over IDEs

[TofuMatt]

Complex learning-curve, they're usually ugly-as-hell, slow and bloated, a lot are Java-based (so they feel less OS-native), and I can accomplish most of my tasks in a terminal window or TextMate commands. Plus the actual text editors in most IDEs feel second-rate, if not like afterthoughts. I spend a lot of time looking at/writing code/tests/etc. as a programmer, so a good text editor makes me happy.

Re:I'm pretty over IDEs

[fusiongyro]

Not to be a shill, but you might want to try Coda for PHP. On my Mac I use TextMate for damn near everything else, but Coda is just a really nice, well-integrated experience for PHP. It manages projects on a site-by-site basis which keeps things simpler for me, understands having a local and a remote copy, doesn't mind editing stuff right on the server over SFTP (probably WebDAV too, but I haven't tried it), and has integrated documentation for PHP. I bought it on a whim and found myself quite addicted to it for PHP.

Re:I'm pretty over IDEs

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been spending all day every day with BBEdit for 7 years (and VIM if I'm in a shell somewhere) and really don't get the IDE craze. While TextMate, BBEdit, and others are all very accomplished editors with nice syntax highlighting and other goodness, I lean toward BBEdit for two reasons:

  * Separate windows for each file -- I have 4 monitors, why cram everything into dozens of tabs on one?
  * Fabulous Grep-powered search and replace. While awk, sed, etc work well, BBEdit's search and replace doesn't require all of the funny character escaping for a bash shell and makes reformatting data-files or code insanely easy.

BBEdit also has nice text templates that I bind to my function keys to insert comment blocks and other common stuff, though this probably is available in TextMate too.

While a built-in debugger would be handy, its pretty rare that I come across a situation where a simple var_dump($x); exit; line or print_r(debug_backtrace()); exit; line won't accomplish the same thing. I do appreciate the debugger when working with Java, but in PHP it just seems less necessary due to how easily anything can be printed.

Most of the apps I work on are large OO PHP apps that I or my team built from scratch (with the inclusion of ZendFramework or other common libraries), so I don't find the auto-complete or 'project browser' stuff all that useful since I generally know in which modules or classes each function or operation lives. At the end of the day, I guess all of the IDEs I've tried (older version of Zend Studio, Eclipse, Netbeans) seem get in my way more than they help. Maybe I'm missing something though, can any IDE fans give me a good reason to try one again?

Re:I'm pretty over IDEs

[TofuMatt]

I actually started using Macs right around the time Coda came out, and used it for years 'til I switched to TextMate. Part of my switch was because my coding was becoming much more varied and I wanted more of TextMate's tricks/extensibility.

I still use and quite like Coda. But TextMate is my main weapon now-a-days.

vim/EMACS?

[Canar]

I know this is PHP, so it might be expecting too much, but what ever happened to using vi?

I'm a semi-pro (all told I've probably made nearly $100k) web developer and I've never felt the need for all these fancy IDEs. I've tried them before and they just slow me down.

Re:vim/EMACS?

[Anonymous Coward]

100k/year?

The difference is in working on "here and there" projects by yourself, and large projects with many other developers or many other groups of developers.

Re:vim/EMACS?

[LS1 Brains]

I hear ya. I have partially succeeded over the years in getting myself to use a more point-and-click style editor, but I keep falling back to vim. Old habits die hard, and it often seems easier to just pull off a :%s/something/else/g than Ctrl+H, [something], tab, [else] tab, Alt+A, Enter, Escape.

Re:vim/EMACS?

[gmuslera]

Probably vi/vim thru ssh plus a web browser for testing/googling/docs and shell utilities has been my IDE for perl/php/bash for years (at least if it qualifies at IDE), and emacs would not be a bad alternative neither

Re:vim/EMACS?

[TheCycoONE]

Vim came out, and vi users switched over?

Re:vim/EMACS?

[tokul]

I know this is PHP, so it might be expecting too much, but what ever happened to using vi?

I think, vi does not have function name completion, code folding, integration with Zend Platform, debugger, profiler, phpdoc support, code analyzer, etc. Emacs does not have all features of Zend Studio. for me the only thing where emacs beats zend studio 5.5 is customizable white space highlighting.

Re:vim/EMACS?

[wmbetts]

I use vim as my IDE for damn near everything. I get syntax highlighting, code folding, profiler, and debugging. Not to be offensive, but it sounds like you don't know how to use vim or at the very least have little experience.

Re:vim/EMACS?

[Chad Birch]

Indeed. I used to try out all these PHP IDEs, I used UltraEdit for a long time, etc. Then one day (for some reason I don't recall), I decided I wanted to take the time and really learn how to use vim properly. Now I can't go back. All those other editors feel clunky, underpowered, and slow. vim has all the same capabilities if you take a little time to figure out how to use (or enable) them, and working in it is considerably faster and more efficient.

I've found that almost everyone that prefers an IDE over vim doesn't actually know how to use it.

Re:vim/EMACS?

[tokul]

I use vim as my IDE for damn near everything. I get syntax highlighting, code folding, profiler, and debugging.

You don't use Zend Studio. I use emacs and that's why I said "I think" when I talked about vim.

Yes, you can debug things with exit and var_dump. Yes, you can profile code with apd, if you add custom code unsuitable for production code and then decompile profiling dumps. With Zend Studio I can profile complex code which must be executed in specific environment with just one click. No custom code in tested program. I get graphs with load and execution times expandable down to files and functions.

Can you trace all unused global declarations in 500KB codebase? Zend Studio 5.5 can.

You can write PHP scripts with plain text editor. with IDE you can also maintain, debug and improve that code and write more complex code.

Re:vim/EMACS?

[wmbetts]

You do realize that there's nothing you can't do in vim you can do in any of these IDEs.

Re:vim/EMACS?

[tokul]

You do realize that there's nothing you can't do in vim you can do in any of these IDEs.

Maybe. Not sure about code analyzer (unused global declarations and undefined variables stuff). I can do other things in vim with help of some PHP extensions, but with Zend Studio I can do same thing faster. If I do it faster, I have time to do more.

Re:vim/EMACS?

[eddy the lip]

I've tried Komodo and Eclipse. Personally, I didn't find that they gave me anything I didn't get from vim and a few bash terminals, except a lot of annoyance. Intellisense was a pain in the ass. My first task was usually trying to turn it off. (Second was trying to find something decent for vim key bindings.) Some of the code refactoring tools were sort of handy, but not enough to make me put up with everything else. Reggexer works very nicely for most of what I used those for anyway.

It's been a while, so maybe I'm missing out on some shiny new must-have feature, but I have my doubts. I don't see the point in learning a big shiny tool that doesn't give me anything beyond what I already have, but with more mouse clicks.

The one time I did find an IDE handy was when I was learning Java. Once I figured out my way around, I went back to vim.

Re:vim/EMACS?

[wmbetts]

Can't argue with that. I do like Zend Studio, but I prefer vim for the same reason you prefer Zend Studio. I get more done quicker.

Re:vim/EMACS?

[Ant P.]

It doesn't count as an "IDE" unless the code pane is 120x100px when the window's fullscreen and opening the program requires a splash screen.

Re:vim/EMACS?

[Blakey Rat]

Good for you?

But vi isn't an IDE, and this article is about IDEs... so... off-topic. Tell you what, when there's an article about which text editor is best for PHP, then you can post this same thread and it'll be on-topic! Amazing how that works.

Re:vim/EMACS?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've found that almost everyone that prefers an IDE over vim doesn't actually know how to use it.

But what's the motivation to use vim if they don't know how to use it? I've used vi for years as my sysadmin editor, and Netbeans as of late for PHP. If I'm going to invest time learning the 'new' features of vim, I might as well go ahead and pick up Emacs with a PHP mode.

Re:vim/EMACS?

[thetoadwarrior]

I do like VIM (or VI) but most people don't have the patience to take 3 days setting it up with all the plugins you want to achieve certain results an then another day learning commands and hopefully remembering them.

Yes VIM/VI and Emacs can be more efficient but only after spending an incredible amount of time setting up and learning how to use it. Which is why you'll see more books, websites, etc dedicated to learning those two programs than any other.

Quite frankly I don't think it makes you a better coder and arguably I'd say it makes you a worse one as it shows a tendency to fuck about with the least efficient option to start with.

Re:vim/EMACS?

[wmbetts]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you to a point. I can get vim setup up to do exactly what I need fairly quickly, but I didn't learn that while I was at work. I learned it, because I fiddled with it on my own time before I was even a professional programmer.

If you have no knowledge of the either of them and decide one day to walk into work and figure it out then yeah you're not that bright or feel like messing off.

If you're a systems guy / programmer / it / whatever and you don't fiddle around with things that makes you worse than someone who does. It's just a matter of when you do it (i.e. your free time not on the clock).

you dont need to quote developers.

[unity100]

as if php is not something worth developing on or those who develop on it cannot be called real developers.

i am working in the industry since 2003 as a php developer and i use notepad++. it works very well too.

Re:you dont need to quote developers.

[duguk]

as if php is not something worth developing on or those who develop on it cannot be called real developers.

i am working in the industry since 2003 as a php developer and i use notepad++. it works very well too.

I have to agree with this. Notepad++ is feature rich, especially for PHP users, especially with the many many plugins. Just having syntax highlighting and completion is enough. Most of these IDE's are overkill.

Re:you dont need to quote developers.

[Anonymous Coward]

What annoyed me about Notepad++ was that it crashed often. Maybe I was abusing it by having upto 15 files open at a time but I noticed it would mostly crash when I switched to another program (browser, usually, since I was testing what I had just coded/fixed) and switched back. No ALT+TAB required. It was as simple as switching focus to the browser window on a separate monitor. I can say that while it worked, it was great and had almost every feature I needed. It was a great free program.
 
The crashing also had one undesired consequence, though. When I would open it again, it would restore a random state. I never knew which files would be opened back up. It could be a session from 3 days ago or it could be my last session.
 
All in all, I have to say the best IDE I've used to date was Zend Studio 5. I hated Zend Studio 7.

Re:you dont need to quote developers.

[kestasjk]

I use notepad++ for text files etc but it's not an IDE, is it? Does it have debugging, project management, variable tracking, object/namespace browsing and auto-completion? You're wasting your own time if you don't use a good IDE.

Re:you dont need to quote developers.

[Fallingcow]

If you need something very similar (though, sadly, with fewer plugins) in Linux and don't want to use Wine, I recommend Geany.

Re:you dont need to quote developers.

[unity100]

you can insert most of the functions you speak of through plugins. thats the good part. you can put in what you need, and not what someone packaged. prevents bloating.

Re:you dont need to quote developers.

[KlomDark]

Weird, I've used NP++ for years and have NEVER had it crash. Maybe it's cause I don't open any PHP files with it??

Re:you dont need to quote developers.

[thetoadwarrior]

I use VIM when necessary and only when necessary. Because I don't try to prove my manliness by using the most basic featureless software. I rather prove my worth in the code I create rather than the tool I use.

I do often use Notepad++ myself and yes it has plugins. Plugins that aren't always updated that often and break between versions and it requires using Wine if you want to use it in Linux. If you're going to build onto Notepad++ you might as well go for a full IDE or at least go for something like VIM which is basic as well but also has a zillion more plugins, features and support.

Re:you dont need to quote developers.

[St.Creed]

I use it to develop anything and everything related to PhP, CSS, (X)HTML etc. with it, and it never ever crashes. There must be something else installed on the machine as well, or an addon that's semi-corrupt. Notepad++ hasn't crashed on me, ever, since I started using it a few years ago.

Re:you dont need to quote developers.

[duguk]

If you need something very similar (though, sadly, with fewer plugins) in Linux and don't want to use Wine, I recommend Geany.

Notepad++ runs great under Wine... Not that I'd recommend it, it does come in handy. Thanks for Geany; it looks really promising!

Re:you dont need to quote developers.

[Xest]

"Just having syntax highlighting and completion is enough."

Not for professional developers it's not

and...

"Most of these IDE's are overkill.""

Not for professional developers they're not.

If you're not using all the features, it doesn't mean that syntax highlighting and completion is enough, or that most IDEs are overkill. It just means that you're not building professional quality applications or are at least working extremely inefficiently. For starters, you at least want a decent debugger.

Re:you dont need to quote developers.

[duguk]

For starters, you at least want a decent debugger.

Notepad++ supports XDebug. Next.

Re:you dont need to quote developers.

[Xest]

Ah so you accept you were wrong and simple syntax highlighting and completion aren't enough then? Good. Next.

Re:you dont need to quote developers.

[duguk]

If you're not using all the features, it doesn't mean that syntax highlighting and completion is enough, or that most IDEs are overkill. It just means that you're not building professional quality applications or are at least working extremely inefficiently. For starters, you at least want a decent debugger.

Notepad++ supports XDebug. Next.

Ah so you accept you were wrong and simple syntax highlighting and completion aren't enough then? Good. Next.

No, syntax highlighting and completion are enough for most purposes. For anything professional, you said you need a "decent debugger" and therefore need an IDE. You were wrong because Notepad++ does support these options with plugins. Neeeeeeext please!

Re:you dont need to quote developers.

[Xest]

No really, that's not what I said as much as you might have an inability to admit that you perhaps rather oversimplified things and are hence incorrect.

I said a debugger is essential for professional work, amongst other things. A debugger is still essential for "most purposes", else you're basically just going to end up writing crap, buggy code.

It wouldn't be so bad if you could at least expand on what you feel is needlessly over complicated in modern IDEs. A quick flick through Visual Studio's menus and really it all comes down to ensuring help with building modular applications, refactoring, and debugging in an efficient manner. It's a similar story looking at Eclipse and Netbeans, I see nothing there that isn't just there to assist in building good code more efficiently.

I think what you really meant was "I don't know what half the features are for, and can't be arsed to figure it out, so am just going to state they're useless".

Really, learn the features of a proper IDE, you'll soon find they let you build better code, faster.

Simply making such a clearly stupid statement as you did rather than accepting that you know, maybe you don't have as much experience in development as you think to be qualified to really talk about these things with any real authority then and insisting you're right just gives the impression you should step out of development altogether and just stick to fixing home PCs and such. God knows the world doesn't need anymore cowboy coders who don't really know what they're doing, but bodge it the best they can anyway.

Re:you dont need to quote developers.

[Anonymous Coward]

God knows the world doesn't need anymore cowboy coders

You're the one with the imaginary friend, and you're telling him to grow up?

I've tried proper IDEs

[DeanLearner]

but each time I always go back to Notepad++ http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/

why not

[hellraizer]

vi or even emacs :D

IDE?

[Spyware23]

What's wrong with using vim/notepad++, links, and perhaps a self-refreshing firefox tab open on a second monitor/desktop?

I have developed and worked on many (PHP powered) websites in my life, and never felt the need for some big IDE. Although I do have to admit I did this as an amateur, not as an employed web dev.

Also, people mocking Notepad++, you are probably not aware of it's (mostly plugin-based) features. It has plugins for ftp, svn and cvs, for example.

Like I said, never felt the need to use a big IDE, and I don't understand why others do.

Re:IDE?

[TheCycoONE]

I typically use vim for my development, but I do on occasion use Eclipse when I run into problems. The static code analysis can be handy sometimes.

That said I only develop php as an amateur so perhaps if I did it day in and out every day I wouldn't have a use for code analysis. Professionally I program ColdFusion and use vim exclusively.

Re:IDE?

[DesertBlade]

I was told years ago real web programmers use notepad. I am a hobbyist PHP guy, but been doing it alot at work for the company website, perhaps it is time to move away from gedit (they have a windows version) and onto something else,

Re:IDE?

[hal2814]

Using vim and an IDE aren't mutually exclusive. Most decent IDEs give you the option of using whatever text editor you want. Debugging through the IDE and doing nitpicky formatting changes for clients is the major draw for me using an IDE. I get a lot more throughput that way. And more throughput leads to more money in my pocket.

Re:IDE?

[shutdown -p now]

Like I said, never felt the need to use a big IDE, and I don't understand why others do.

How do you debug your PHP code? With a series of "echo" statements?

Re:IDE?

[Spyware23]

Print, actually. But, yeah, that's how I roll. I also use php-cli/php in a shell and tools like time and grep.

Re:IDE?

[Chad Birch]

vim + xdebug - looks something like this (not my screenshot, just random google image search).

Re:IDE?

[Anonymous Coward]

Notepad ++ if you want to split the distance. Get it on sourceforge - it has every language under the sun.

Re:IDE?

[Anonymous Coward]

Glorious!

Re:IDE?

[sopssa]

Then you're doing it the hard way and wasting time, because there are much more elegant real debugging solutions too.

Re:Zend Studio

[Phrogman]

I gotta agree ZS was great. I have tried the Eclipse Framework version and hate it. I still have my ZS installed but had to switch to Netbeans, as a result of upgrading to Leopard on my iMac (After the upgrade, I no longer see highlighted text and thats a pain when coding. The moment I select it, its white on white). Until i figure a way to fix that, I am using Netbeans, which is okay but not as nice overall. ZendStudio really was worth the money I paid for it, too bad they don't update it.

Same here.

[Anonymous Coward]

I have had the same experience with eclipse. Komodo Edit - the free version - I found to hang for several seconds while typing on my Linux box (f12, P4, 512M RAM) I'm assuming that the free edit version uses the same editor code base as the commercial IDE - I don't see why it wouldn't.

So far on Linux, my favorite is Netbeans. Actually, Netbeans is my favorite IDE for everything - it's a great C++ IDE too! The trouble with Netbeans, though, if you're doing Qt development, it doesn't have the integration that eclipse has with the Qt build environment. So, if you're doing C++/Qt, eclipse is a bit better.

I Vote Eclipse

[twmcneil]

My new projects are in Flex and/or php so I stay with Eclipse to save my sanity. I still have to use Delphi for maintenance work on older projects so having to keep 3 IDEs in my tiny little brain at once would be difficult for me. Even so, I'm hitting F2 in Delphi to save. Grrr.

Value

[ianare]

The ratings are pretty silly. How can ZendStudio have a value of 10, while netbeans has 9? Netbeans is free/OSS, ZS is proprietary and $400 !!

Bluefish

[Anonymous Coward]

For all my web development needs (incl html, css, javascript, java, php and mysql) under Linux there is Bluefish!

Well, yeah... Re:I'm pretty over IDEs

[Anonymous Coward]

...but there are people who actually code applications in object oriented PHP... with trillions of public/private classes, interfaces 'n' shit.

So yeah, textmate is nice if you need to code a contact form or two.

Re:Well, yeah... Re:I'm pretty over IDEs

[fusiongyro]

No amount of IDE intervention will save you if you try and use PHP like a real programming language.

TextMate's great for what it is. So is PHP.

EditPlus

[Daley_G]

For $30, EditPlus (for Windows, but runs great in wine) is awesome. Granted it doesn't do all the things that a full-fledged IDE does, but the fact that it's got a built-in FTP client makes my life easier when I maintain several different sites. It's lightweight, flexible and easy to use.

KWrite

[TheNinjaroach]

I write PHP every day and I get by very well with KWrite. KDE let's me seamlessly edit remote files over FTP or SSH and KWrite is lightweight but offers a surprising amount of features. It has some pretty awesome syntax highlighting that changes its color coding between PHP blocks, Javascript, style sheets and HTML with remarkable accuracy.

I've used Zend Studio (pre-Eclipse) and Eclipse PDT. I like some of the features such as the way they assist with function parameters and the built in PHP documentation, but other features aren't so nice and cause way too much interference with what I type. Ultimately, it lacks the seamless integration of my KDE environment and is a pain for editing remote files so I always end up going back to KWrite.

UltraEdit

[frizzantik]

Been using it for years and years. No debugger but oh well.

Re:UltraEdit

[rrhal]

ultra edit is a great editor - best I've used. There isn't any good way to integrate a debugger while code is running in a web server though.

No Adobe?

[elecmahm]

I know that Dreamweaver wouldn't be a "traditional" IDE -- but PHP isn't a traditional language either. Dreamweaver can do PHP, JavaScript, HTML / CSS, etc. -- does color coding, code suggestions / "intellisense", and is project-oriented. I enjoy using Eclipse for GWT, Java, Python, (and even for PHP too), but at work, using Dreamweaver is just easier. The article summary made no mention of using strictly FOSS, so was there a reason to exclude DW?

Visual Studio

[darkain]

I gotta say, after working with Visual Studio for so damn long in C++ and Visual Basic (starting all the way back with VB3), it was only natural for me to use the IDE I'm most familiar with for PHP. Nowadays, there are some pretty damn good add-ons for Visual Studio to help out with the workflow of PHP development. Having SVN integration is another major plus for VS. I will honestly admit I've tried to tinker with other IDE sollutions, but its just a mental pain in the ass to convert yourself over after 13+ years of working with the specific intricies of one particular product, such as menu placement and keyboard shortcuts.

Re:Visual Studio

[St.Creed]

I agree. And once Microsoft realized there's money to be made here, they could include native PHP development support (which isn't all that hard for them) and wipe the floor with the other IDE's. At least on Windows.

Google ads is a little off

[Anonymous Coward]

Eclipse
The 2010 Eclipse - Equipped with 263-horsepower MIVEC V6.
www.MitsubishiCars.com

Please stop writing IDEs in Java

[Xeoz]

Really, it's time. No more Java desktop apps, especially IDEs.

Re:Please stop writing IDEs in Java

[EkriirkE]

A++++ post, would mod if had points.

Memory gluttons and high latency. I took one look at eclipse to see what the fuss was about and immediately uninstalled it when I saw the java gui.

Re:Please stop writing IDEs in Java

[swilver]

You mean the platform default UI I assume, as SWT uses native widgets?

You mean the 256 MB of memory Eclipse consumes at maximum (default settings) ?

I don't think you really tried it.

Re:Please stop writing IDEs in Java

[thetoadwarrior]

Time to quit coding on your mom's old P2 450 Dell.

Re:Please stop writing IDEs in Java

[Anonymous Coward]

Amen. Even with a new quad-core running Vista my system is still too slow to run Eclipse or NetBeans. Vista is slow, but Java GUI programs are an entirely new level of slow.

With that said, I still use NetBeans when working with someone else's PHP code. The autocompletion and ability to easily create a project from an existing set of source files helps with that task.

Re:Please stop writing IDEs in Java

[EkriirkE]

It was a P2 400 Gateway you insensitive clod!

Re:Please stop writing IDEs in Java

[EkriirkE]

Its the swing something or other UI, yes. It's distinctive, and If I see that?... the applet get deleted.
I didn't try it at all beyond launching it, you're right!
Java has left a very foul taste in my mouth and that hint of feces just doesn't go away...

PHP Expert Editor

[flimflammer]

I've been using this program as my PHP IDE of choice for a few years now. It was light weight and functional. I really liked it. I wanted to like Zends offering, but I find large scale Java IDEs mildly offending.

Guaranteed mod points! Yeah!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah me too, I'm totally over IDEs. I put all my C++ classes in one file so there's no confusing project hierarchy. And since I know my code is correct when it compiles, I really don't have any need for an integrated debugger. And I don't need source control integration because I just change the date on my filename and save a new copy each time. It's a lot more straightforward that way.

Sooooo over IDEs.

People who don't use IDEs: Thanks in advance for the mod points. I hope no one realizes that the real reason is that we don't actually program anything complex or structured enough to warrant a complex and structured development environment.

People who use IDEs: Thanks in advance for not modding me down, because doing so wouldn't be very 1337 of you, you IDE-using script-kiddie. You probably use VISUAL STUDIO!! LOL!

The results

[Anonymous Coward]

It turns out all of them failed, on the basis that what they produce is still php.

Yes, I'm a troll. Bring it, bitches!

Scite

[Coltman]

Wow I thought that Scite was popular but I didn't see one comment here on it. I did see a couple of Notepad ++, but I have never used that.

I personally moved out of Visual Studio and started using Scite instead. It can be completely configured, has a ton of language syntax support, and I can open a different language in each tab and hit build/compile/run without closing anything.

At work we use PHP frameworks and I use netbeans for simplicity. But really Scite does just as well. It is also super easy to add to it if necessary.

Of course when ssh emacs rules. :)

VS.PHP

[fysdt]

Isn't on the list but it's an awesome IDE for PHP development in Visual Studio.

Aptana not considered?

[Anonymous Coward]

I personally find Aptana Studio the best IDE for web related development (php/js/html/css).

I only hope...

[toby]

You also use some kind of decent version control.

Aptana

[TigerTime]

You should try downloading Eclipse and then go to www.aptana.com and install their Studio Plugin. It is a complete web development toolkit and has built in FTP/SFTP as well as a file browser so that you can edit files on your computer without having to create a project first. Code highlighting and completion for HTML/JS/CSS as well as other file types

Be sure to download the Eclipse that has Mylyn builtin so that you have your task list at hand to check off and track what you need to work on.

Re:Aptana

[KermodeBear]

I'll give this a try, thanks for the tip. I like to give everything a fair go, but Eclipse PDT has just been a giant mess every time I have decided to try it "one more time." (o:

Re:Aptana

[TigerTime]

Once you install the Aptana plugin, go to:
Window > Show View > Other
Then search for File.
The File view will have your FTP/SFTP stuff.

I use DW

[Bobb Sledd]

I use Adobe DreamWeaver and like it, and I am one of the best paid in my field so suck my balls.

gedit.

[TheSpoom]

Linux (Gnome) + gedit + gvfs.

It's Notepad, plus text-colouring, plus automatic tabbing, plus most features of a good code editor (I believe you can get plugins for automatic syntax completion and such), minus the need to upload anything since you just access FTP / SFTP / WebDAV servers directly as if they were on the local filesystem.

Plus, it's completely free in both senses of the term.

If forced to use Windows or it happens to be more convenient, Windows + Notepad++ + WebDrive, which mostly replicates the functionality of gvfs (making an FTP server a Windows drive). It works decently but I still prefer gedit to np++.

I work primarily as a PHP web app developer. I don't need any WYSIWYG stuff generally.

Quanta!!!

[mcalwell]

Been using Quanta on Ubuntu for years now. Fantastic. Can't think what else I would need.

VS.PHP

[Anonymous Coward]

I've tried most of them but none have compared to VS.PHP which is a Visual Studio plugin. This means I can use a proper IDE which I am familiar with, that I use for all other dev projects and is actually a proper professional package (rather that some of the ones listed)