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Landmark Ruling Gives Australian ISPs Safe Harbor

omnibit writes "Today, the Federal Court of Australia handed down its ruling in favor of the country's third largest ISP, iiNet. The case was backed by some of the largest media companies, including 20th Century Fox and Warner Bros. They accused iiNet of approving piracy by ignoring thousands of infringement notices. Justice Cowdroy said that the 'mere provision of access to internet is not the means to infringement' and 'copyright infringement occurred as result of use of BitTorrent, not the Internet... iiNet has no control over BitTorrent system and [is] not responsible for BitTorrent system.' Many Internet providers had been concerned that an adverse ruling would have forced themselves to police Internet traffic and comply with the demands of copyright owners without any legislative or judicial oversight."

252 comments

  1. Suck it, AFACT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Suck it long and hard.

    1. Re:Suck it, AFACT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Awesome, couldn't read that without it playing in my head in Darrel-Hammondized Sean Connery voice.

      I'm somehow glad this is the case.

    2. Re:Suck it, AFACT by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 1

      lol! Absolutely agree with the gp's sentiments. Suck it, indeed!

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    3. Re:Suck it, AFACT by Smegly · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The case was backed by some of the largest media companies, including 20th Century Fox and Warner Bros.

      Irresponsible behavior (some would say - criminal) and total lack of respect for our internet from these last century media company behemoths really does make it that much easier to justify going out of our way to never ever pay them a penny - on moral grounds. Oh they will still get paid, and paid very well for doing nothing, what with our taxes going right to their pockets. What a convenient business model! However a serious correction in market capitalization is obviously in order for these people - they apparently will not be content until they destroy the internet.

      As an aside, in parts of Europe they released the Disney channel last year or so to free view on TDT. Previously it was cable TV subscriber only where the post-war economic crisis was causing their viewer ratings to seriously drop. A generation of little EU'lings growing up without crying for their "Micky Mouse" tee-shirts or wanting to go to "WarnerBros world" must have scared the absolute goofies out of them.

    4. Re:Suck it, AFACT by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Double plus bonus on the ruling, not only does it set precedent but also "The Australian Federation Against Copyright Theft representing the film industry, has been ordered to pay iiNet's costs", loser pays in Australian Civil courts, which is why they never played around with suing end users. You lose one case, you lose them and then have to pay everyone's court costs.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    5. Re:Suck it, AFACT by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 1

      Yup, beautiful. Still think we're backward now, Americans?

      Oh I am so leaving myself open for some backlash here...

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    6. Re:Suck it, AFACT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure you are.

      When you flush a toilet, it spins the opposite way from the way it does in North America.

      To me, that's the classic definition of backward.

    7. Re:Suck it, AFACT by Vanderhoth · · Score: 1

      Ah, but if you live in Australia then the way your swirly spins is the correct way and the American bullies are backward.

    8. Re:Suck it, AFACT by dwiget001 · · Score: 1

      1. Nope, never thought Aussies were "backwards".

      2. I have always thought fondly of Aussies as being more like "We don't take crap from nobody" sort of blokes.

      Good on ya!

    9. Re:Suck it, AFACT by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 1

      That's exactly what I was thinking.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    10. Re:Suck it, AFACT by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      Technical nit: Australian toilets work on a different principle. They actually don't swirl at all.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
  2. Headline should read... by DigiJunkie · · Score: 5, Funny

    Landmark Legal Decision - Law and Common Sense Align

    1. Re:Headline should read... by Wowsers · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't expect a sudden rash of common sense to be replicated around the world by judges.

      I'm sure there are plenty of judges that will give the "correct" verdict for the media companies for an appropriate "compensation package."

      --
      Take Nobody's Word For It.
    2. Re:Headline should read... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      You can read the decision for yourself here.

    3. Re:Headline should read... by poetmatt · · Score: 2, Insightful

      really? You know, most judges worldwide do tend to read into the decisions made by other countries and cite them, as there are many smart law folks. Whether they disagree or not sure, but simple jurisprudence does exist.

    4. Re:Headline should read... by causality · · Score: 1

      really? You know, most judges worldwide do tend to read into the decisions made by other countries and cite them, as there are many smart law folks. Whether they disagree or not sure, but simple jurisprudence does exist.

      In a way, that bothers me. It's not the job of an ISP to censor content or to micromanage its users to appease a business interest (copyright) that is orthogonal to their own. That's the truth whether or not a judge in a foreign country thinks so. Sure, in this case the precedent set was a good and sane one, but next time it might not be.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    5. Re:Headline should read... by blind+monkey+3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sorry but I suspect the endgame is presented in this http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/04/2809856.htm
      quote:
      Outside court, Australian Federation Against Copyright Theft executive director Neil Gane said he was disappointed with the decision. He said the case was lodged to try to protect the livelihoods of the thousands of Australians who work in the television and film industries. Mr Gane said he was confident that the Federal Government would now review the laws surrounding copyright infringement.

      as the saying goes, who needs judges and courts when you can afford politicians.

      --
      BM3
    6. Re:Headline should read... by Falconhell · · Score: 0

      We do not have elected judges in au, so there are no campaign contributions for bribes to hide behind.

      Elected judges are more easily bought.

    7. Re:Headline should read... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      In Australia judicial and policing roles are generally not politically appointments (with some exceptions) and the influence of corporations is very limited.

      In cases like this it is more a case of convincing the government to change the law. Unfortunately this is something AFACT will probably find relatively easy to do with our current Federal government particularly the Senator Conroy as the Minister for Broadband, Communications and the Digital Economy.

    8. Re:Headline should read... by obeythefist · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As a matter of fact, the Australian judge presiding over this case examined safe-harbour provisions and similar cases from US law and he mentions those examinations in the judgement document.

      This is common sense really, as ISP's are a carrier and not liable for the content that passes through their networks.

      Unfortunately what will happen is Conroy, the Minister for Communications, who has already identified himself as being strongly pro-copyright, will now attempt to enact harsh laws to force ISPs to surrender private information to AFACT companies and allow direct attacks on the Australian population. Conroy is the same minister who was voted Internet Villain of the Year last year for his ongoing attempts to enact a hidden, government controlled blacklist censorship system to "protect the children" (although really it just blocks political, anti-abortion and euthanasia websites and a few local Australian businesses thrown in at random).

      --
      I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
    9. Re:Headline should read... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately what will happen is Conroy, the Minister for Communications, who has already identified himself as being strongly pro-copyright

      Pro-copyright? As opposed to... pro-due process? Don't describe him that way -- he wants guilt upon accusation in Australia.

    10. Re:Headline should read... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just wait... this will receive an unfortunate swift kick in the arse on appeal.

    11. Re:Headline should read... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In next week's news Australia signs international treaty that mandates ISPs must police the movie and record industry IP on the internet.

    12. Re:Headline should read... by Xest · · Score: 1

      I suspect Conroy would be a candidate to go on holiday with Peter Mandelson from the UK, they seem to have a similar ideology.

      Ideally, they'd fly to a nice remote island together somewhere, and crash.

      Seriously though, how do these people even get into positions of power? They're hated by the majority of the population- not just those interested in technology because people like this are blatantly corrupt to the core, and people hate nothing more than corrupt politicians. Yet despite this, time and time again they keep rearing their ugly heads, like a more powerful Jack Thompson that can't be disbarred.

    13. Re:Headline should read... by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      for example purposes: just because a judge disagrees on this ruling doesn't mean they might not have another reason to strike down the lawsuit or whatever.

      It's not like the opposite of ISP safe harbor is a lack of safe harbor. Maybe the judge feels the law is ambiguous, or that the case should just be dismissed. etc.

      So as much as what we feel about the job of an ISP is, the precedent here has been set. It was already well known, this judge basically consolidated his cites. So "next time" means nothing, unless it's in Australia. Why be so doom and gloom and make a statement that nobody can rationally affirm or deny? "the next time it might not be?"

    14. Re:Headline should read... by MacWiz · · Score: 1

      This is common sense really, as ISP's are a carrier and not liable for the content that passes through their networks.

      While this has always been a valid argument in most countries, the MAFIAA really wants it not to be true. They seem to think that they can sue someone and the law will morph to fit their perspective. Look how long they hammered "downloading is theft" when only the sharers were open to charges.

  3. Prepare for the appeals! by SpeedyDX · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This case is probably not over yet.

    1. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by MrShaggy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Its the supreme court after all. I think that says it all.

      maybe ACTA will be nexT?

      --
      I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them.
    2. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Jason+Pollock · · Score: 4, Informative

      Um, it's Australia, and the Federal Court in Australia.

      Australia doesn't _have_ a Supreme Court, they have a High Court.

      So, no, this probably isn't over yet.

    3. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by throbber · · Score: 2, Informative

      There is still the High Court. The Supreme Courts in Australia only have jurisdiction over State matters.

    4. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Australia doesn't _have_ a Supreme Court, they have a High Court.

      We have eight (8) Supreme Courts actually. But yes, you are correct this is the first instance case before a single Judge in the Federal Court. Appeal would usually lie to the Full Court (of the FedCrt) and then to the High Court of Australia.

    5. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Enter+the+Shoggoth · · Score: 4, Informative

      Its the supreme court after all. I think that says it all.

      maybe ACTA will be nexT?

      Sorry, no it wasn't the supreme court. If you are an non-Australian you will find a more complete explanation here. If on the other hand you are a fellow Aussie and you think that we have a single supreme court I respectfully suggest that you have watched way too many hours of imported American TV shows. Stop it!

      The case was held in the federal court - each state within Australia has it's own court system the highest court within each state is the state's own supreme court. As this seems to have been a case with respect to federal law it was brought before the federal court.

      In any case there is an avenue for appeal. Leave may be sought for the case to be heard by the High Court which has appellate jurisdiction over the federal court and all states supreme court. This is not overly likely however as the high court rarely accepts matters and the majority of its sittings are to determine constitutional matters.

      The next step in this process for AFACT is more likely to lobby the idiots in Canberra for new laws.

      --
      Andy Warhol got it right / Everybody gets the limelight
      Andy Warhol got it wrong / Fifteen minutes is too long.
    6. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know you all speak English, but does 'Supreme' mean something different in Australia? I mean, if someone says that this burger is of "supreme" quality, you can come back and say that yours is of 'High" quality and trump him?

    7. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by fabs64 · · Score: 1

      The Federal govt doesn't have supreme courts, the states do. As far as state law is concerned they *are* the "Supreme" court for that state.

    8. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nah, mate, my true blue burger is better than your supreme one anyday.

      But the highest court is the Grouse Court of Oz

    9. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by zblack_eagle · · Score: 1

      Sure. Just like I have district and magistrates burgers which are obviously of lesser quality than supreme burgers.

    10. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I know you all speak English, but does 'Supreme' mean something different in Australia?

      Each state and territory as a Supreme Crt, which is the highest court for that state and territory. The federal court system is separate and deals with federal law (eg. copyright law). The highest court in Australia is the High Court of Australia, to which one can appeal from the state Supreme Crts or from the Federal Crt.

      Does that make it any clearer?

    11. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You are wrong. The Fucken' Grouse Court of Oz is higher.

    12. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by MichaelSmith · · Score: 4, Funny

      Sure. Just like I have district and magistrates burgers which are obviously of lesser quality than supreme burgers.

      And in France its called the Court Royale

    13. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by fabs64 · · Score: 1

      Good explanation, just one addendum: The High Court really only deals with interpretation of the constitution, as it holds sway over both the states and the fed.

    14. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by starbugs · · Score: 1

      I know you all speak English, but does 'Supreme' mean something different in Australia?

      I'm quite indifferent to the word 'supreme'.
      What I want to know is if the word 'High' means something different?

      --
      Sue: It's okay.
                  He's Australian.
      Fran: Maybe I'd better go there someday.

    15. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      The High Court really only deals with interpretation of the constitution

      While this is true of the German Bundesverfassungsgericht, it is completely false in regard to the High Court of Australia. And yes, IAAAL.

      Any point of law, whether it arises out if the Constitution or not, can be decided by HCA.

    16. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by WeirdJohn · · Score: 1

      Can someone mod up this AC's posts? I assume that he's AC for professional reasons. It's good to have clear, correct interpretation of the law here in Oz for those who don't live in God's own country.

    17. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Shark · · Score: 1

      ... with cheese!

      --
      Mind the frickin' laser...
    18. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      "Bundesverfassungsgericht"

      I'd just like to say...damn, that's a mouthful.

    19. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... Appeal would usually *lie* to the Full Court

      More true than you could imagine

    20. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Noodlenoggin · · Score: 1

      Does that come with a $5 shake?

    21. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If on the other hand you are a fellow Aussie and you think that we have a single supreme court I respectfully suggest that you have watched way too many hours of imported American TV shows. Stop it!

      Which they probably downloaded..

    22. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by cujo_1111 · · Score: 1

      That's what your mum said :)

      --
      If I point out that you are incorrect, making me a foe does not make you any more correct.
    23. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its the supreme court after all. I think that says it all.

      It is the Federal Court, not the Supreme Court. Appeals from the Federal Court can be made to the High Court.

    24. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by grcumb · · Score: 5, Funny

      The High Court really only deals with interpretation of the constitution

      While this is true of the German Bundesverfassungsgericht, it is completely false in regard to the High Court of Australia.

      You deserve to be modded up just for spelling Bundesverfassungsgericht correctly.

      ... And yes, IAAAL.

      Now, some of you might conclude that the 3rd 'A' above stands for 'Australian'. Actually, because of issues too complex to explain (something to do with the International Date Line, the Doppler Effect and Special Relativity), Australian vowels simply last longer than North American or European vowels. If you were to pronounce that acronym out loud it would sound more like 'OIEAAAAAAAAOOOHHHHLLLL'.

      A clause in the US/Australian Free Trade Agreement requires that Australian actors have their vowels surgically removed when they're being prepared for export.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    25. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by NekSnappa · · Score: 3, Funny

      When did they move West Virginia to Australia?

      --
      I want to shoot the messenger!
    26. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by mirix · · Score: 1

      For some reason I read it as "I am an awesome lawyer"... don't ask.

      --
      Sent from my PDP-11
    27. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Hucko · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not at the cost per megabytes that is charged here.

      --
      Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
    28. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by ross.w · · Score: 1

      No but you can buy a beer with it.

      --
      If my call is important, why am I talking to a recording?
    29. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by dasmoo · · Score: 1

      Lawyers don't say awesome. Unless there's hookers and blow involved, then pretty much anything is awesome.

    30. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by psithurism · · Score: 1

      I know you all speak English, but does 'Supreme' mean something different in Australia? I mean, if someone says that this burger is of "supreme" quality, you can come back and say that yours is of 'High" quality and trump him?

      "Supreme court" refers to specific legal bodies in the US that it does not refer to in Australia. So yeah, "supreme court" means something different when speaking of those countries and will make a difference as to what the implications of the ruling are.

      This court is indeed supreme for this decision (like your hamburger but not like the pizza) but is merely a federal court as far as appeals go.

    31. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by mjwx · · Score: 1

      This case is probably not over yet.

      The case is over, the ending is not ambiguous and Australian high courts have little time or patience for going over the same frivolous law suit over and over again. The courts here can simply refuse a civil case, unlike a criminal case.

      AFACT could go to the High Court of Australia and get another case they will be ripped to shreds by a high court judge instead of a federal court judge as none of the evidence has actually changed. Except in this case the high court may slap AFACT's constituents with a criminal fine for misusing/misleading the courts (any number of laws apply here) as well as having to pay iinet's court costs again.

      With the amount of negative publicity against AFACT, they'd be certifiably insane to try, so this is a possibility but their victory in the high court is a extremely unlikely. Under Australian law, the High Court decision is final, no further appeals can be made.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    32. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by DeathElk · · Score: 2, Funny

      When did they move West Virginia to Australia?

      When John Howard was elected in 1996.

    33. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yes, IAAAL.

      No wonder you posted anonymously.

    34. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You deserve to be modded up just for spelling Bundesverfassungsgericht correctly.

      Would you be even more impressed if I told you I did so without having to look it up (thanks to German's allophonic spelling).

      Now, some of you might conclude that the 3rd 'A' above stands for 'Australian'.

      Some of my interlocutors probably think it stands for 'arsehole.'

    35. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by grimdawg · · Score: 1

      where does the family burger fit into this?

      --
      There are 10 kinds of people in this world: those who understand binary, and nine other kinds of people.
    36. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Caity · · Score: 1

      In any case there is an avenue for appeal. Leave may be sought for the case to be heard by the High Court which has appellate jurisdiction over the federal court and all states supreme court. This is not overly likely however as the high court rarely accepts matters and the majority of its sittings are to determine constitutional matters.

      Actually, the next step would probably be the Federal Court of Appeal.

      Then a leave application to the High Court - where each party gets all of 20 minutes to make their case.

      Then (iff the leave application is successful) you get a High Court hearing.

      I also wouldn't say that the majority of HCA sittings regard constitutional matters. They get a mix of pretty much everything as a quick scan of last years' cases will show. All that immigration stuff is mostly straight admin law rather than anything constitutional.

      And yes, IAAAL.

    37. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Caity · · Score: 1

      Sorry to be a pedant, but Australia does not have a Supreme Court. The states and territories have Supreme Courts but Australia, as an entity capable of having a judicial branch, does not.

      To increase the pedantry, if you are going to count the State and Territory supreme courts there are actually 9. Norfolk Island has one too.

    38. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Gandalf_Greyhame · · Score: 1

      yes, but you have to clean up yourself afterwards

      --
      I am not stubborn. I am right!
    39. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by shungi · · Score: 1
      Not to get too technical but the High Court is the Supreme Court of Australia. It sits atop the Federal Court and the various state Supreme Courts. Each of those Courts, and the Federal Court, have appeals juristictions consisting of Banco (ie multiple) judges.

      Here is part of section 71 of the Australian constitution for those who like evidence!

      "The judicial power of the Commonwealth shall be vested in a Federal Supreme Court, to be called the High Court of Australia, and in such other federal courts as the Parliament creates, and in such other courts as it invests with federal jurisdiction. "

    40. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only one thing lower on the life scale than a lawyer, thats a lawyer who is also a politician. Used Car Salesmen and Snake Oil salesmen are more trustworthy.

    41. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know what you meant when you said "Appeal would usually lie to the Full Court" it just sounds like whats really going to happen as well. :)

    42. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Royale with Cheese?

    43. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only one thing lower on the life scale than a lawyer, thats [sic] a lawyer who is also a politician. Used Car Salesmen and Snake Oil salesmen are more trustworthy.

      How about an AC who gratuiously insults people based on their occupation without any knowledge of the motivations or behaviour of the individual involved. That's on the very bottom "on the life scale".

    44. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      You're both right. It's technically accurate to say that the Commonwealth of Australia does not have a Supreme Court. It's also true that Australia is home to eight entities which have the name "Supreme Court", and that within their respective judrisdictions, they are, indeed, the courts of last appeal.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    45. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by daisybelle · · Score: 1

      I stumbled over it for a bit before deciding it must mean "I am actually a lawyer"! (ie, and am therefore qualified to make this comment)

      --
      "You only get ONE LIFE." Richard Rahl, Faith of the Fallen - Terry Goodkind
    46. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Enter+the+Shoggoth · · Score: 1

      In any case there is an avenue for appeal. Leave may be sought for the case to be heard by the High Court which has appellate jurisdiction over the federal court and all states supreme court. This is not overly likely however as the high court rarely accepts matters and the majority of its sittings are to determine constitutional matters.

      Actually, the next step would probably be the Federal Court of Appeal.

      Then a leave application to the High Court - where each party gets all of 20 minutes to make their case.

      Then (iff the leave application is successful) you get a High Court hearing.

      I also wouldn't say that the majority of HCA sittings regard constitutional matters. They get a mix of pretty much everything as a quick scan of last years' cases will show. All that immigration stuff is mostly straight admin law rather than anything constitutional.

      And yes, IAAAL.

      You are indeed correct about Federal Court of Appeal.

      I was under the impression that most cases that the High Court deemed worthy were of a constitutional nature however seeing as IANAL and you say that you are I'm willing to accept this.

      However I still believe that this is all a formality anyway - I'd be willing to wager that there will be new legislation before this time next year.

      --
      Andy Warhol got it right / Everybody gets the limelight
      Andy Warhol got it wrong / Fifteen minutes is too long.
    47. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry to be a pedant, but Australia does not have a Supreme Court. The states and territories have Supreme Courts but Australia, as an entity capable of having a judicial branch, does not.

      I'll see your pedantry and raise you one HC decision! In Kable the HC decided in effect that Ch III of the Constitution created a single integrated court system in Australia. Gaudron J wrote that explicitly and minimally it was agreed (by the majority) that the state Supreme Crts are incorporated into the the formally 'Australian' legal system by virtue of s73(ii).

      Moreover I didn't write "Australia" had 8 supreme courts, I wrote "we," that is the people of Australia, (in response to "they have") have. If, in the alternative, I had written 'Australia,' it might as easily, given the context, have referred to the geographic rather than the legal entity.

      Moreover, it was a mere quip. Surely an inappropriate target for anyone's pedantry? ;)

      To increase the pedantry, if you are going to count the State and Territory supreme courts there are actually 9. Norfolk Island has one too.

      How could I have forgotten Norfolk Island!? Now I could raise the pedantry another notch, and dispute whether Norfolk Island actually is in Australia, (which seat represents them in Parliament again?), but that would be unseemly (not to mention devilishly complex). ;)

      OTOH, other territories such as Jervis Bay (which certainly is, in every sense, in Australia), don't have a judicial system (integrated or otherwise). Had I known the level of pedantry I was to be subjected to, I should not have used "the states and territories" as shorthand for the 8 bodies generally understood to comprise that expression.

      Phew, this is like arguing with lawyers. :) Yes Caity, I know you are.

    48. Re:Prepare for the appeals! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're both right.

      I realise you are coming to my defence, however, I must disagree with you. :)

      It's technically accurate to say that the Commonwealth of Australia does not have a Supreme Court.

      It is however technically incorrect to state the the state supreme crts do not form part of the Australian legal system, --which is closer to what she(?) actually wrote --for reasons outlined in my response.

  4. Wow by zobier · · Score: 0

    At least we can do something right down here!

    Thank you Mr. Cowdroy!

    --
    Me lost me cookie at the disco.
    1. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you Mr. Cowdroy!

      That would be Justice Cowdroy!.

    2. Re:Wow by timmarhy · · Score: 1, Offtopic
      This had NOTHING to do with steven conroy.

      i'm very suprised actually. even though iinet's arguement was solid - why should they spend money and lose customers policing someone elses copyrights. usually the music and film industry weasles find a way to win these things.

      it is too early to celebrate though, there will be an appeal no doubt where the music industry try get a judge more inline with their thinking.

      --
      If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
    3. Re:Wow by dangitman · · Score: 1

      This had NOTHING to do with steven conroy.

      Who said that it did?

      --
      ... and then they built the supercollider.
    4. Re:Wow by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Funny
      Funny if his first name was Neil ...

      Justice Cowdroy, Neil.

    5. Re:Wow by mjwx · · Score: 1

      This had NOTHING to do with Stephen convoy.

      Wrong...

      Twice...

      Justice Dennis Cowdroy was the presiding judge over the AFACT vs iinet case.

      Minister Stephen Conroy had commented on the case, against iinet (who are one of the principal opponents against his internet filter) and was promptly smacked back into place by everyone involved (The opposition, his own party, the courts and the media) for attempting to interfere with the courts (in this country, a no no for politicians).

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    6. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately, he is Justice Dennis Cowdroy :)

  5. It was awesome how thoroughly they won too by adamkennedy · · Score: 5, Informative

    What I liked about this ruling was just how much they won it.

    The judge said that Safe Harbour provisions did apply to the ISP... but they weren't needed because they only applied if the ISP explicit approved that user activity (which they do not)... and any infringement notices from the studios didn't need to be sent to consumers due to the Privacy Act (iiNet sends all infringement notices to the police instead)... and in any case the sending of infringement notices and subsequent banning etc was not considered a valid copyright prevention mechanism.

    So yeah, they wiped the floor with them.

    1. Re:It was awesome how thoroughly they won too by Incisa · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The salient quote from the judge - "the law recognises no positive obligation on any person to protect the copyright of another".

    2. Re:It was awesome how thoroughly they won too by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One supposes he meant "private citizen" when he said "person".

      And if that holds up on appeal, you can bet there will be a scramble to change it.

    3. Re:It was awesome how thoroughly they won too by murraystorm · · Score: 0

      One supposes he meant "private citizen" when he said "person".

      And if that holds up on appeal, you can bet there will be a scramble to change it.

      This was a hearing in the federal court there is no further avenue of appeal. The only higher body is the high court which is mainly concerned with constitutional law etc which this case has no avenue too. The good guys have won this battle but the war goes on.

    4. Re:It was awesome how thoroughly they won too by Capsaicin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      One supposes he meant "private citizen" when he said "person".

      One is in error. At law a corporation is a 'person.' Indeed the personality of a corporation is a sine qua non of the corporate form (the other being the limited liability of that person). Contrast this with a partnership, which is several persons, or a non-incorporated company, which is a vehicle through with the person(s) who own(s) it operate.

      What you call a "private citizen" is conventionally referred to as a 'natural person.'

      --
      Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
    5. Re:It was awesome how thoroughly they won too by Capsaicin · · Score: 1

      This was a hearing in the federal court there is no further avenue of appeal.

      The Full Court, the High Court? This was a decision at first instance, appeals are always available.

      The only higher body is the high court which is mainly concerned with constitutional law etc which this case has no avenue too.

      The High Court does deal with issues of constitutional law, but not exclusively (or even primarily) so. Furthermore the law under consideration arises out of the powers granted to parliament under section 51 (placita xviii & xxix) of the Constitution.

      Whether or not this is appealed will depend on an assessment of how solid the judgment is.

      --
      Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
    6. Re:It was awesome how thoroughly they won too by halcyon1234 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The salient quote from the judge - "the law recognises no positive obligation on any person to protect the copyright of another".

      It's almost like the judge-- reads? {mindreel}

      "There has grown in the minds of certain groups in this country the idea that just because a man or corporation has made a profit out of the public for a number of years, the government and the courts are charged with guaranteeing such a profit in the future, even in the face of changing circumstances and contrary to public interest. This strange doctrine is supported by neither statute or common law. Neither corporations or individuals have the right to come into court and ask that the clock of history be stopped, or turned back."

      - Heinlein, Life Line, 1939

    7. Re:It was awesome how thoroughly they won too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      can you demonstrate that what you said actually applies to Australia?

    8. Re:It was awesome how thoroughly they won too by Caity · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I am an Australian lawyer and I will endorse what Capsaicin said - a corporation is quite definitely a "person" at law.

      It's difficult to pinpoint it as it's a Common Law definition rather that one that's set out in a statute. It's one of those things that just is, with origins in England in about the 15th century.

      I know it's not a great piece of proof, but for the sake of simplicity, I offer the definition of "person" in the Australian Corporations Act 2001 which includes a superannuation fund. If it can include a superannuation fund, you can damn well bet it includes a corporation.

    9. Re:It was awesome how thoroughly they won too by rdnetto · · Score: 1

      There was also a useful bit in the summary judgement that would be of great use to any individuals who get sued:

      This follows from my finding that, on the evidence and on a proper interpretation of the law, a person makes each film available online only once through the BitTorrent system and electronically transmits each film only once through that system.

      In other words, each torrent counts as a single infringement, which significantly reduces the (theoretical) damages.

      --
      Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
  6. Good news, but by Karsaroth · · Score: 5, Informative

    we still have a proposed Internet Filter, no R18+ rating for video games, and a South Australian government that passed a law saying that every person commenting about the election online must provide their real name and postcode. We have a long way to go yet.

    1. Re:Good news, but by Capsaicin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      we still have a proposed Internet Filter, no R18+ rating for video games, and a South Australian government that passed a law saying that every person commenting about the election online must provide their real name and postcode.

      You missed something else we still have. The separation of the administrative/legislative and the judicial arms of government.

      --
      Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
    2. Re:Good news, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    3. Re:Good news, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, the South Australian law requiring real names and postcodes on all Internet comments about the election has already been overturned.

      So now they can twitter "off to vote today" from their phones without getting RSI.

    4. Re:Good news, but by bcg · · Score: 5, Informative

      "SOUTH Australian Attorney-General Michael Atkinson late last night backed down on online media censorship laws.

      After stoking a fight with the media less than two months from a state election, Mr Atkinson said the laws stripping anonymity from media blogs would be repealed after the March 20 poll.

      "From the feedback we've received through AdelaideNow, the blogging generation believes that the law supported by all MPs and all political parties is unduly restrictive. I have listened," Mr Atkinson said in statement released to the website AdelaideNow.

      "I will immediately after the election move to repeal the law retrospectively."

      Mr Atkinson said the law would not be enforced for comments posted during the upcoming election campaign, even though it was technically applicable."


      http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/sa-attorney-general-backs-down-on-political-blogging/story-e6frg6nf-1225826154732

    5. Re:Good news, but by spudda · · Score: 1

      that may be true, but if the Executive branch of Government don't like what the Judicial branch has done then they will push through new legislation through the legislative branch of Government to overturn it. But it sounds better to allow people to believe we have proper separation of powers.

    6. Re:Good news, but by StrahdVZ · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually it has NOT been overturned yet. The South Australian Attorney-General declared that he would scrap the laws AFTER the upcoming election. Now this is assuming that he and his party will still be in power after the election (a big assumption indeed).

      If he isn't then I'll bet my chops that the Conservatives who are then in power will do everything they can to retain the draconian law.

    7. Re:Good news, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Unless something has happened between yesterday and today it wasn't overturned as such, the actual wording was that the state government would try to overturn it after the state election. Typical political doublespeak.

    8. Re:Good news, but by StrahdVZ · · Score: 1

      My apologies, factors have changed overnight. He will indeed attempt to repeal the laws immediately.

      I guess I was just having a hard time believing that common sense could prevail twice in one day....

    9. Re:Good news, but by bmo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What got me was that he basically said the only way to get it scrapped was if he was re-elected.

      That's some brass balls.

      From here in the US, while we've had our problems, it certainly seems like you guys have forgotten the old pledge "We swear by the Southern Cross to stand truly by each other and fight to defend our rights and liberties."

      --
      BMO

    10. Re:Good news, but by Madsy · · Score: 5, Informative

      we still have a proposed Internet Filter, no R18+ rating for video games, and a South Australian government that passed a law saying that every person commenting about the election online must provide their real name and postcode. We have a long way to go yet.

      And banned A-cup breasts from mainstream pornography. Reason? Think-of-the-children mentality again. http://www.sankakucomplex.com/2010/01/28/australia-bans-small-breasts-as-child-pornography/ I found that both amusing and shocking. It's not about children's safety anymore, but pushing moral values and acting as thought-police.

    11. Re:Good news, but by Capsaicin · · Score: 1

      that may be true, but if the Executive branch of Government don't like what the Judicial branch has done then they will push through new legislation through the legislative branch of Government to overturn it. But it sounds better to allow people to believe we have proper separation of powers.

      Dude, what you've just described is the separation of powers! The legislature (representing WeThePeople(tm)) gets to correct the course the law takes (as implemented by judges seeking a quasi-mathematical formal solution to legal problems with which they are presented, "cough, cough"). Needless to say, we in Australia don't have "proper" separation of powers because the administrative and judicial powers are combined.

      My point was that comparing a curial decision (this case) to legislation the government has on the table (all of the things listed by GP) is comparing apples to oranges.

      --
      Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
    12. Re:Good news, but by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      "South Australian government that passed a law saying that every person commenting about the election online must provide their real name and postcode"

      Yes they did, and then they were promtly forced to drop it.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    13. Re:Good news, but by Wizarth · · Score: 1

      Possibly because the law didn't say what the Attorney General said it did.

      http://www.efa.org.au/2010/02/02/sa-electoral-amendments-and-anonymity-online/

      From the article:

      It also covers material on ‘radio or television or broadcast on the Internet’. ‘Broadcast’, at least as it is defined in Commonwealth legislation, covers audio or visual transmissions but not text and static images (see s 6, Broadcasting Services Act 1992 (Cth)). So this requirement would cover radio and television stations and probably podcasters as well.

      It is important to note that this legislation does not require each commentator on a website to be named. It requires the publisher of the site (or a responsible person) to be named.

    14. Re:Good news, but by Ralish · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You missed something else we still have. The separation of the administrative/legislative and the judicial arms of government.

      The judicial arm is effectively separate, but the separation of the executive (administrative) and legislative arms of government isn't necessarily a good idea; look to America for some solid examples why. Which isn't to say it doesn't have its benefits, but I don't think they outweigh the cons. In particular, I don't think it in anyway increases government accountability, but it certainly does decrease government effectiveness, and an ineffective government is bad no matter where you sit on the political spectrum, as it impedes a government mandated by the people to implement policy from being able to do so.

    15. Re:Good news, but by Capsaicin · · Score: 1

      The judicial arm is effectively separate, but the separation of the executive (administrative) and legislative arms of government isn't necessarily a good idea; look to America for some solid examples why.

      I agree.

      Perhaps I was being to obtuse. My point was to tell the GP, "You comparing this judgment, which, in theory, is supposed to be about interpreting the law as it is (not as the learned J might wish it to be), the the legislation the government wants to introduce which, again only in theory, reflects a policy we get to vote about."

      --
      Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
    16. Re:Good news, but by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      What a pity he doesn't listen about the ratings on games.

      I wonder if that whole listening to the electorate might catch on, maybe he could share this learning experience with Senator Conroy.

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
    17. Re:Good news, but by dakameleon · · Score: 2, Informative

      it certainly seems like you guys have forgotten the old pledge "We swear by the Southern Cross to stand truly by each other and fight to defend our rights and liberties."

      That's because that is a pledge associated with the Eureka stockade, and nothing at all to do with the formation of the Australian nation; the majority of those participating in the stockade were not Australian born but rather recent migrants to the country in the hunt for gold. And yes, it's mostly forgotten because it's not a pledge repeated commonly, and indeed if anything has been co-opted by anti-immigration groups, along with the flag and associated symbolism. Not exactly something to be proud of.

      --
      Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
    18. Re:Good news, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, because we're all so fucking happy clappy for the laws in SA.

      I'm from NSW, so i can't vote against Michael Atkinson, but i've participated in the federal review.

      Personally, i think he's realised he's not going to get back in, so he's said "You get R18 or Free commenting on the election. Your call."
      However, i've heard both that it has and hasn't been overturned, but i'm sure if the AG that gets in is going to give us R18, they'll overturn these laws.

    19. Re:Good news, but by Falconhell · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      >Sigh> you mean the SA law that has already been beaten down by the public, to the point where the SA AG Atkinson has said it will not be enforced at the upcoming election and will be repealed after?

      Do try to keep up.

    20. Re:Good news, but by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        That's too bad, because it certainly sounds good.

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    21. Re:Good news, but by mjwx · · Score: 4, Informative

      From here in the US, while we've had our problems, it certainly seems like you guys have forgotten the old pledge "We swear by the Southern Cross to stand truly by each other and fight to defend our rights and liberties."

      Because that isn't actually part of our constitution, nor part of the Australian thinking.

      Such uptight Jingoism and "patriotism" is only practised by the racist/xenophobic segments of our society, we try as hard as possible to ignore and marginalise such segments.

      The phrases that are better associated with being Australian are:
      "No worries mate" and "She'll be right"
      which are more indicative of our laid back nature. The most patriotic saying the average Australian is expected to use is "Lest we forget" and this is only ANZAC day.

      But in any case, hopefully this ruling and sudden outbreak of common sense helps the US with it's problems not only with the RIAA/MPIAA but the struggle to maintain network neutrality.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    22. Re:Good news, but by arminw · · Score: 1

      ...and an ineffective government is bad.....

      Very often, no law is better than a bad law. Most of the laws, passed by Congress recently have been bad. Earmarks and pork barrel appropriations for example. Is raising the federal government debt ceiling a good thing? I have my doubts about that. Sometimes, gridlock in government is good. No action is better than bad action. A gridlocked government is also less likely to increase taxes on its citizens.

      --
      All theory is gray
    23. Re:Good news, but by Arker · · Score: 2, Insightful

      and an ineffective government is bad no matter where you sit on the political spectrum

      Totally incorrect. For anyone not situated very close indeed to the sitting government on the 'political spectrum' an ineffective government is better than an effective one. The capacity for governments to do good is quite limited, their capacity to do evil is unfortunately not.

      --
      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
    24. Re:Good news, but by iosq · · Score: 1

      Didn't he just claim he "wouldn't enforce them"? Hopefully he won't be re-elected - I wouldn't take the word of the man who introduced the draconian laws to scrap them. Not to mention he happens to be the same one blocking the R18 Rating.

    25. Re:Good news, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, as a libertarian I prefer an ineffective government to the alternative.

    26. Re:Good news, but by Jonti · · Score: 1

      I googled it, and I discover

      "The Eureka rebellion is considered by some historians to be the birthplace of Australian democracy. It is the only Australian example of armed rebellion leading to reform of unfair laws. The Southern Cross flag has been used as a symbol of protest by organisations and individuals at both ends of the political spectrum."

      Sounds foundational to me. Why shouldn't it count, just because the rebels mostly weren't born in Oz?

    27. Re:Good news, but by Rennt · · Score: 1

      ineffective government best government imo

    28. Re:Good news, but by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Thanks, that was informative. IIRC he the same bloke who has basically vetoed the 18+ game rating. OTOH I share his distaste for the Advertiser.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    29. Re:Good news, but by Philip_the_physicist · · Score: 1

      That's right. a brief summary of the story is here.

      Yes, he is still blocking R18 games, and still making dumb comments about Gamers4Croydon. He is also unpopular for some purely local issues as well, but he is almost certain to be re-elected, even if Labor lose, because he had a >30% margin in the two-party preferred vote last election, and his seat isn't really affected by any of the issues other people hate him for.

      OTOH, I expect he Premier has enough sense not to let him enforce the law.

    30. Re:Good news, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that the Eureka Stockade resulted in the introduction of universal male suffrage in Victoria (and later other colonies). In effect it caused Australia to become a democracy.

    31. Re:Good news, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds foundational to me. Why shouldn't it count, just because the rebels mostly weren't born in Oz?

      It is foundational. According to this page: http://museumvictoria.com.au/origins/keydates.aspx?cid=1 most of the population of Victoria (where the Eureka Stockade happened) were immigrants, over 75%. "Top 8 Countries of Origin" table at the bottom.

    32. Re:Good news, but by asaul · · Score: 1

      I would suggest our democracy was formed by a vote on a referendum for federation rather than a minor civil disturbance.

      --
      "If everybody is thinking alike, somebody isn't thinking" - Gen. George S. Patton
    33. Re:Good news, but by dakameleon · · Score: 1

      Because the formation of the nation of Australia was on the basis of a vote some four decades later, not as a result of a movement for federation or independence spurred solely by the Eureka Stockade. Never did the pledge catch on or become a slogan for a wider nationalist movement; while Eureka represents a moment of protest against an oppressive authority, its motives and goals never included the creation of a nation.

      The reason that I stated that the majority of participants were not Australian-born is to emphasise the point that it served no particular patriotic fervour at the time, no matter how it's been co-opted subsequently. Possibly the only uses currently that are in the original spirit are those used in the labour movement.

      As much as I hesitate to quote from Wikipedia, here's a relevant one:

      In 1980, historian Geoffrey Blainey drew attention to the fact that many miners were temporary migrants from Britain and the United States, who did not intend to settle permanently in Australia. He wrote:

      "Nowadays it is common to see the noble Eureka flag and the rebellion of 1854 as the symbol of Australian independence, of freedom from foreign domination; but many saw the rebellion in 1854 as an uprising by outsiders who were exploiting the country's resources and refusing to pay their fair share of taxes. So we make history do its handsprings."

      --
      Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
    34. Re:Good news, but by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      and an ineffective government is bad no matter where you sit on the political spectrum, as it impedes a government mandated by the people to implement policy from being able to do so.

      I hear that view a lot, these days. But it is based on an assumption, that is simply not true anymore, nowadays.
      The neither is the government mandated by the people, nor do its decisions have any relationship with the people anymore.
      This is, why an ineffective government nowadays actually has become a good thing. The slower it is, the less can it rape the people.

      Of course, this does not touch the core problem: That most people prove every couple of years, that they want to be raped hard and nastily.
      (Because they knowingly vote for parties which are proven to work against them.)

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    35. Re:Good news, but by Hurricane78 · · Score: 1

      Meanwhile in Canada: http://notalwaysright.com/north-of-the-moral-border/4097
      Sadly, Canada does not have many warm beaches.
      Luckily, that rule about bare breasts is also true for most of Europe. :)
      (In fact, in Germany, you are legally OK, as long as you put a sock over your dick and balls.)

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
  7. Sudden outbreak of... by Pushpabon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...common sense? But it's Austfailia! This can't be true! Somehow they'll find a way to overturn this I know it.

    1. Re:Sudden outbreak of... by sconeu · · Score: 5, Funny

      No need to turn it over. It's Australia. It's already upside-down.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    2. Re:Sudden outbreak of... by ThinkOfaNumber · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Hey, I live in Australia and therefore I resemble that remark...

    3. Re:Sudden outbreak of... by HeadlessNotAHorseman · · Score: 1

      No need to turn it over. It's Australia. It's already upside-down.

      Unfortunately we can't send faxes to the US PTO either!

      --
      I like my coffee the way I like my women - roasted and ground up into little tiny pieces.
  8. sudden outbreak of common sense. by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 1

    This is really a great step in the right direction for Australia! Time to break out the suddenoutbreakofcommonsense tag!

    --
    "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    1. Re:sudden outbreak of common sense. by fremean · · Score: 1

      I hope this commonsense stuff is contagious...

  9. sigh by wizardforce · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "copyright infringement occurred as result of use of BitTorrent, not the Internet...iiNet has no control over BitTorrent system and [is] not responsible for BitTorrent system."

    The important part is what isn't said. The ruling didn't say that there was no obligation to police a certain part of the net for copyright violations, just that the ISP wasn't responsible for BitTorrent and thus wasn't obligated to police that part of the net.

    --
    Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    1. Re:sigh by mabinogi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The important part is what isn't said. The ruling didn't say that there was no obligation to police a certain part of the net for copyright violations, just that the ISP wasn't responsible for BitTorrent and thus wasn't obligated to police that part of the net.

      so, "the law recognises no positive obligation on any person to protect the copyright of another" doesn't meet your definition of that?

      --
      Advanced users are users too!
    2. Re:sigh by wizardforce · · Score: 1

      sigh... right you are. I suppose that given Australia's history with copyright law I really expected something sinister somewhere.

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    3. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "copyright infringement occurred as result of use of BitTorrent, not the Internet...iiNet has no control over BitTorrent system and [is] not responsible for BitTorrent system."

      The important part is what isn't said. The ruling didn't say that there was no obligation to police a certain part of the net for copyright violations, just that the ISP wasn't responsible for BitTorrent and thus wasn't obligated to police that part of the net.

      i would also add that blaming on bittorrent isn't a true statement either. bittorrent is the plumbing, not an illegal technology.

    4. Re:sigh by GumphMaster · · Score: 1

      "the law recognises no positive obligation on any person to protect the copyright of another"

      Curious, then, the amount of activity that the Australian Customs Service and police services puts into detecting "illegal" movies on behalf of private entities claiming to be copyright holders. Effort also goes into the related area of protecting trademarks for private entities (e.g. Louis Vuiton) from "counterfeit" goods at public expense. Clearly law enforcement officers are not "any person", which might come as a shock to some of them.

      --
      Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
    5. Re:sigh by jeffrey.endres · · Score: 1

      Clearly law enforcement officers are not "any person", which might come as a shock to some of them.

      They may be able to enforce the copyrights, but they are not obligated to do so by the law. I don't think the record companies would get very far suing Customs for failing to stop a shipment of fake Louis Vuiton handbags.

    6. Re:sigh by fenix849 · · Score: 1

      "copyright infringement occurred as result of use of BitTorrent, not the Internet...iiNet has no control over BitTorrent system and [is] not responsible for BitTorrent system."

      The important part is what isn't said. The ruling didn't say that there was no obligation to police a certain part of the net for copyright violations, just that the ISP wasn't responsible for BitTorrent and thus wasn't obligated to police that part of the net.

      i would also add that blaming on bittorrent isn't a true statement either. bittorrent is the plumbing, not an illegal technology.

      The result of this proceeding will disappoint the applicants. The evidence establishes that copyright infringement of the applicants’ films is occurring on a large scale, and I infer that such infringements are occurring worldwide. However, such fact does not necessitate or compel, and can never necessitate or compel, a finding of authorisation, merely because it is felt that ‘something must be done’ to stop the infringements. An ISP such as iiNet provides a legitimate communication facility which is neither intended nor designed to infringe copyright. It is only by means of the application of the BitTorrent system that copyright infringements are enabled, although it must be recognised that the BitTorrent system can be used for legitimate purposes as well. iiNet is not responsible if an iiNet user chooses to make use of that system to bring about copyright infringement.

    7. Re:sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "copyright infringement occurred as result of use of BitTorrent, not the Internet...iiNet has no control over BitTorrent system and [is] not responsible for BitTorrent system."

      The important part is what isn't said. The ruling didn't say that there was no obligation to police a certain part of the net for copyright violations, just that the ISP wasn't responsible for BitTorrent and thus wasn't obligated to police that part of the net.

      i would also add that blaming on bittorrent isn't a true statement either. bittorrent is the plumbing, not an illegal technology.

      The result of this proceeding will disappoint the applicants. The evidence establishes that copyright infringement of the applicants’ films is occurring on a large scale, and I infer that such infringements are occurring worldwide. However, such fact does not necessitate or compel, and can never necessitate or compel, a finding of authorisation, merely because it is felt that ‘something must be done’ to stop the infringements. An ISP such as iiNet provides a legitimate communication facility which is neither intended nor designed to infringe copyright. It is only by means of the application of the BitTorrent system that copyright infringements are enabled, although it must be recognised that the BitTorrent system can be used for legitimate purposes as well. iiNet is not responsible if an iiNet user chooses to make use of that system to bring about copyright infringement.

      It's almost like the judge(s) in this case bothered to learn about how the technology actually works! So who or what do we credit this minor miracle to?

    8. Re:sigh by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      sigh... right you are. I suppose that given Australia's history with copyright law I really expected something sinister somewhere.

      Shouldn't bag us across the board, mate. Sure we have the odd obvious cretin (you listening, Conroy?) but it's also illegal here to sell a DVD player that is region-locked (ACCC got that one right, I believe). Swings and roundabouts, I suspect, but I've noticed a relatively low CQ (Cretin Quotient) in our government and administration. Well, administration anyway - Parliament certainly has its share. But the folks in the offices mostly get it right, not a huge lot of sinister in any of them.

      And no, I do not work for the government in any capacity.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    9. Re:sigh by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

      It's almost like the judge(s) in this case bothered to learn about how the technology actually works! So who or what do we credit this minor miracle to?

      Us folk here in Horse Trailer. We're all like that, thank you for noticing.

      On a more serious note, it might be worth mentioning that we take education very, very seriously, and anyone with professional qualifications here will have had to study very hard to get them in an extremely competitive environment. We don't just hand diplomas out of a packet of crisps, or because your uncle had one.

      There's a culture of "learning how to learn" on top of the impartment of knowledge, and people are brought up to understand and believe that what they make of their life depends entirely on how clever they are - and not just how clever they are to get the degree, so they study and study hard.

      I'm not surprised at all at the common sense I see in the legal profession here. From what I've seen, there's relatively little idiocy to be found in it here at all.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
  10. Now we'll see what happens by dowlingw · · Score: 1

    It will be interesting to see if the studios take up a campaign of harassment lawsuits against individuals in AU. At least ISPs won't be foisted with another short-sighted compliance issue - now all us Aussies need to do is avoid Stephen Conroy's mandatory internet filtering debacle.... In either case, this is a great thing for industry: well done iiNet!

    1. Re:Now we'll see what happens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Para 635 of the reasons for judgement:
      (1) The Court finds that primary infringement has been made out. The applicants have proven that the iiNet users ‘made available online’, ‘electronically transmitted’ and made copies of the identified films.

      So given that primary infringement is established in this case by "iiNet users", the next but more difficult step would be the identification of a liable person who either committed infringement or is liable for infringement through their inaction (say the parents who own the internet account used for the infringement). Given that the Joe Doe IP discovery technique used in the US is not available, this could be hard to do. Primary infringement by iiNet users was admitted by iiNet, but the applicant does not have appeared to demonstrate infringement by user(s) of a given IP at a particular time outside of iiNet's admission.

      Para 619 makes an interesting observation:
      The Court finds that the respondent’s notification that copyright infringement may lead to termination of subscriber accounts (extracted above at [612]) put the iiNet users on sufficient notice that the respondent had a policy in relation to repeat copyright infringement, and that Mr Malone’s understanding of the factors necessary to take action under that policy is sufficient to constitute a repeat infringer policy for the purposes of condition 1 of item 1 of s 116AH(1).
      Earlier, the court noted that iiNet's willingness to disconnect a repeat offender on order of the court, admission of infringement by the user, or where the court finds that the user infringed was enough ingredients to form a repeat infringer policy - a more than one strikes policy - but mere allegation of infringement would not be a "strike".

      I think we are still some way from big content being able to go after individual users - and in Australia they will generally have costs awarded against them if they lose - like they have to pay iiNet's costs in this case.

    2. Re:Now we'll see what happens by mjwx · · Score: 1

      It will be interesting to see if the studios take up a campaign of harassment lawsuits against individuals in AU.

      If that had a chance of working then they would have done it in the first place rather then trying to attack an organisation that had the money and knowledge to defend itself.

      AFACT wont start suing consumers because they'll get laughed out of court by our evil activist judges who always favour the consumer (this is sarcasm for the sarcastically impaired). Further more our woeful deformation laws (unfortunately this is not sarcasm, our deformation laws are dreadful) will allow the consumer to sue the pants off anyone who tries to sue them with false information even if they withdraw the suit (basically an admission of guilt in terms of deformation).

      They went after iinet because they were the weakest target the media cartels could find and they rightfully lost.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    3. Re:Now we'll see what happens by Philip_the_physicist · · Score: 1

      Furthermore, they would need to prove actual damages including the actual number of copies (no statutory damages for non-commercial infringement), prove who actually infringed (the account holder isn't responsible), and pay legal fees if they lost. Given this decision states that each file sharer typically uploads one copy for each file downloaded, the damages would be at most twice the royalty fee per file, which would be far less than actually buying the tracks legally.

      They know it won't work, that's why they haven't done it since the current laws came into force.

  11. statement from the losing party by Swampash · · Score: 4, Funny

    Speaking on behalf of the Australian and US film companies that launched the action, Australian Federation Against Copyright Theft executive director, Neil Gane, said he was disappointed by the Court's decision.

    "Today's decision is a setback for the 50,000 Australians employed in the film industry," he said.

    "But we believe this decision was based on a technical finding centred on the court's interpretation of the how infringements occur and the ISPs ability to control them.

    "We are confident that the government does not intend a policy outcome where rampant copyright infringement is allowed to continue unaddressed and unabated via the iiNet network.

    "We will now take the time to review the decision before making further comment on next steps," he said.

    Translation:

    1. Dey tuk er jeb! Won't someone think of the jeb?

    2. Never should have allowed testimony about how the Internet works.

    3. OK, fuck the courts, we'll just buy a few politicians. We'll tell 'em it's about protecting Australian jobs and about protecting de widdle chiwdwen.

    4. Need to work out which politicians to buy.

    1. Re:statement from the losing party by Sam+Ritchie · · Score: 1

      4. Need to work out which politicians to buy.

      That's easy. Communications Minister Stephen Conroy is already sympathetic to their cause and should be available for a bargain price.

      --
      This sig is false.
    2. Re:statement from the losing party by dakameleon · · Score: 1

      1. Dey tuk er jeb! Won't someone think of the jeb?

      Where the hell do you think this is from, New Zealand?

      --
      Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
    3. Re:statement from the losing party by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is this modded funny rather than insightful?

      Considering all points are faithful representations of the true meaning, I have to ask..

    4. Re:statement from the losing party by grimdawg · · Score: 1

      To be fair, iiNet are probably getting together with Telstra and Optus and making decisions on what politicians *they* want to buy.

      --
      There are 10 kinds of people in this world: those who understand binary, and nine other kinds of people.
    5. Re:statement from the losing party by ozdeadman · · Score: 1

      It's a frequently running joke in Southpark, actually..

    6. Re:statement from the losing party by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, iiNet are probably getting together with Telstra and Optus and making decisions on what politicians *they* want to buy.

      This is true. Telstraclear bankrolled iiNet's case because iiNet are a small ISP and Telstraclear don't want a precedent set against their interests.

    7. Re:statement from the losing party by Nocterro · · Score: 1

      As an Australian, can I please just say "NOT FUNNY".

      --
      [clever sig]
  12. Error in title... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Reports here this morning explicitly state that the Safe Harbour provisions were not invoked:

    'Justice Cowdory agreed and said that, while iiNet was entitled to protection under the Safe Harbour provisions, there was no need for iiNet to take advantage of this as he did not find it authorised its users' copyright infringement.'

  13. Statement in full from the losing party by David+Gerard · · Score: 4, Funny

    Thirty-four film companies representing the Australian and US film industries today expressed their disappointment that the Federal Court found that iiNet was not using orbital mind control lasers to encourage copyright infringements by its customers on its network.

    Despite findings of copyright infringement by iiNet customers, pirate flags in their front yards and downloaded cars in their driveways, iiNet did not authorise the acts of its customers, merely sitting back and watching the tens of dollars rolling in to feather their own nests at the expense of the poor beleaguered major record companies and film studios.

    Australian Federation Against Copyright Theft executive director, Neil Gane, said he was disappointed by the Court’s decision. "Today’s decision is a setback for the 50,000 Australians employed in the film industry, who work hard to send money to America as fast as possible. But we believe there's something not quoite roight about this ruling — it was based on a mere technical loophole centred on the court's interpretation of what the law technically says in actual words and original intention, rather than what it should say.

    "We are confident that the government does not intend a policy outcome where zombie hordes of drooling open source copyright terrorists led by the evil genius Michael Malone are allowed to continue feasting upon the flesh of the living via the iiNet network.

    "We will now take the time to review the decision before seeing if we can bribe enough federal politicians to get a law more to our liking."

    --
    http://rocknerd.co.uk
    1. Re:Statement in full from the losing party by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haha, got marked as Informative. Guess the mods know the truth when they see it.

    2. Re:Statement in full from the losing party by wintermute000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Today's decision is a setback for the 50,000 Australians employed in the film industry,"

      Seeing as our film industry is pretty small + vast majority of piracy is for overseas content (the local content is mostly live TV stuff - sports, news, fluff reality and cooking shows etc. that nobody pirates, you just watch it if its on etc. and if you pirate neighbours then god bless your simple mind) that statement is kinda like sweatshop workers protesting that fake designer gear is depriving them of their 2 bucks a day.

      As for iinet, good on them, they're a good isp, shame about the inevitable appeal.

    3. Re:Statement in full from the losing party by David+Gerard · · Score: 1

      I think they're counting video shop assistants there.

      --
      http://rocknerd.co.uk
    4. Re:Statement in full from the losing party by Dracophile · · Score: 1

      I hope it does get appealed, and then I hope that the High Court affirms the Federal Court's decision.

      --
      Athy, athier, athiest.
  14. Timeline of case + full ruling by angry+tapir · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here's a timeline of the case. Also the full ruling has been posted online.

  15. Favourite quote: by fabs64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "the law recognises no positive obligation on any person to protect the copyright of another," - Justice Cowdroy

    Ah, reasonable, rational, and direct. Love it.

    1. Re:Favourite quote: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I read that as - Justice Cowboy

  16. The future is still undetermined by spudda · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The Issue was decided by a single judge, which means the likelihood of appeal to the full bench of the Federal court and the high court after that is 100%. I think this is a good day for Australian ISPs. And despite the whinging from AFACT it does not protect pirates since the copyright holders have had the mechanism of going to the court for a court order to name an ISP subscriber for years. They just elected not to use it and tried to bully subscribers with infringement notices. And any ISP that didnt pass on these notices were run over the coals by AFACT as this case has demonstrated. But what this case demonstrates is that AFACT is not above the law. However I can see the Government tightening the legislation at the end of this case making any decision by the high court moot when it gets reversed by the incompetent Conroy and his band of merry men

    1. Re:The future is still undetermined by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      Ironically we received an infringement notice last night from our !iiNet ISP. We are still trying to establish what if any concrete penalties might apply beyond a TOS transgresion and the ISP having the right to refuse our business.

      While I support the outcome from this court case, realistically the ISP are in someway complicit in the downloading of copyrighted materials - what else do they think we are doing with those 60+Gb data plans they offer?

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
    2. Re:The future is still undetermined by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      watching legally streamed video
      Listening to legally streamed music
      Playing games on our XBoxes (I can download 10g in a night when browsing new demos)
      Using VOIP and video calling to talk to friends. (Video in particular really chews through the bandwidth)

    3. Re:The future is still undetermined by sowth · · Score: 1

      what else do they think we are doing with those 60+Gb data plans they offer?

      Speaking with your grandma on a hi-def video stream? Playing fast-paced, bandwidth wasting games? Controlling a robot on the other side of the planet? Downloading astronomical charts? Telecommuting? Downloading software updates? Using facebook? Facebook probably hits your quota right there. Do they have to care?

      I would also like to point out there are plenty of sources to indicate the majority of infringement notices are incorrect, if not outright fraudulent.

      Yeah, plenty of people use the internet for copyright infringement, but it does not give media companies or anyone else the right to take it away from everyone. Telephones are used to plan murders and all sorts of illegal activities. Should we have them taken away as well?

    4. Re:The future is still undetermined by djsherly · · Score: 1

      Not ironic event is not ironic.

    5. Re:The future is still undetermined by NoMaster · · Score: 1

      While I support the outcome from this court case, realistically the ISP are in someway complicit in the downloading of copyrighted materials - what else do they think we are doing with those 60+Gb data plans they offer?

      Read the full judgement - Village Roadshow et. al. tried the same argument; he dismantles it quite well.

      In doing so, he explains why it makes no economic or business sense to sell big plans to heavy users - rather, your 60GB (30+30?) plan exists to make people who use only a little more than their 20GB (10+10) plan more profitable by encouraging them to upgrade. Along the way, he blows the rest of their argument out of the water by pointing out how iiNet actually encourage legal downloading with their Freezone (iTunes, ABC, etc don't count towards your quota), while costing them money to provide.

      Seriously, I know nobody even reads the damned articles here, but the judgement - the whole 200 pages - is well worth reading, and remarkably light on the legalese. If it was a /. comment, it'd probably get equal parts "+5, Funny" and "+5, Insightful" mods.

      --
      What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
    6. Re:The future is still undetermined by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Justice Cowdroy is experienced - and as he did not summarily dismiss this case, tried hard to please his masters. However he put the law first. The decision and logic will hold, and Federal court appeals are very much likely to fail.
      I want to know how COST's were awarded, and now things are clear, if Victorians can sue the shit out of illegal privacy breaches. (Only in Victoria is stolen or illegally gained privacy information inadmissible).

      Before the politicians get bought off to do something, they should know they will be authorizing themselves to be bugged and tracked. If I'm and ISP, I can choose, at election time, to make a lot of troble for candidates (unless the don't use a computer).

  17. Re:Sentator Conroy by Freaky+Spook · · Score: 1

    That's what I'm most worried about coming into the next Federal Election.

    He can tack a 1/2 baked policy somewhere into his list of election promises and targets like he did with the Content Filtering, which became mandatory after he won the election. It wouldn't surprise me if we see Copyright protections included into the Filtering legislation to force ISP's to work for free for big media.

    Conroy has proved time and time again he has no idea what the internet actually is, or does and supports stronger enforcement of copyright without any recourse for the consumer. He is one man that needs to be heavily targeted by the Greens, The Pirate Party and the Liberal Party to lose his Senate Seat.

  18. Feels Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Feels good to be a citizen of Australia, and a customer of iiNet. Way to go guys!

  19. Users only infringe *once* per file by tdelaney · · Score: 4, Interesting

    And additional important ruling (taken from the summary):

    10. The first step in making a finding of authorisation was to determine whether certain iiNet users infringed copyright. I have found that they have. However, in reaching that finding, I have found that the number of infringements that have occurred are significantly fewer than the number alleged by the applicants. This follows from my finding that, on the evidence and on a proper interpretation of the law, a person makes each film available online only once through the BitTorrent system and electronically transmits each film only once through that system. This excludes the possible case of a person who might repeatedly download the same file, but no evidence was presented of such unusual and unlikely circumstance. Further, I have found, on the evidence before me, that the iiNet users have made one copy of each film and have not made further copies onto physical media such as DVDs.

    This appears to be saying that when someone torrents, they only infringe copyright once. Which would make it economically unviable to go after people for casual copyright infringement via the internet, since damages would be severly limited.

    1. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by yuna49 · · Score: 1

      This follows from my finding that, on the evidence and on a proper interpretation of the law, a person makes each film available online only once through the BitTorrent system and electronically transmits each film only once through that system.

      This is a very strange argument. If I torrent a movie and let it seed indefinitely, I will almost certainly have distributed more than one copy of the film. Did the justice really believe that torrenting is a one-for-one kind of activity where a downloaded work is uploaded once and only once? I haven't read the decision, but I wonder how much of it concerned downloading versus uploading.

      These comments don't really alter the basic thrust of his decision, but they do give one pause to wonder how much the justice really understood about the mechanisms of the "BitTorrent system."

    2. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by masher_oz · · Score: 5, Insightful
      So it looks like merely making a file available isn't an infringement. This is congruent with the finding that

      20. The law recognises no positive obligation on any person to protect the copyright of another. The law only recognises a prohibition on the doing of copyright acts without the licence of the copyright owner or exclusive licensee, or the authorisation of those acts. In the circumstances outlined above and discussed in greater detail in my judgment, it is impossible to conclude that iiNet has authorised copyright infringement.

      Just because you're able to copy my file doesn't make me responsible.

    3. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by Hyperhaplo · · Score: 1

      I believe what it means to say is "a user will download a file (movie) once" and "it is a rare case that a user will download a movie more than once".

      Hence, each user can not be said to have 'stolen' 'many' 'copies' of a 'file' (movie), but instead may (according to this intepretation) can only be liable for 'one' copy of the file - therefor reducing damages.

      Ya?

      --
      You have a sick, twisted mind. Please subscribe me to your newsletter.
    4. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps it is more regarding how the actual offence is defined. Such as, you can't be fined twice (e.g. by a speed camera and a seperate police vehicle) within a defined scope of distance and time.

      I'm sure there are technical difficulties as well regarding how to determine exactly how many times an infringement occured when it isn't the whole movie, but only minor portions of the movie that is being transferred.

    5. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by rswail · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "letting it seed" isn't transmitting it ("making available") or copying it. It's made available once (seeded), and then each individual downloading is infringing. This means that even if they do manage to prosecute an individual, it will be for one copy made (if they catch them downloading), and one making available (if they catch them seeding).

      That severely limits the potential liability, makes it a civil offence, not a criminal one and probably not worth the studio's time.

    6. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok think of a closed network of 5 computers.

      I sit down at computer A, and add a file to a torrent. Computer B, C, D & E start downloading my torrent (and thus sharing with each other). If all 3 of us end up with a copy of the movie etc then theoretically 4 copies (plus 1 original) have been made.

      However if they took person&computer C to court they could say: You have uploaded files to B, D & E therefore you've distirbuted 3 copies. Pay us for 3 copies (plus the copy you downloaded for yourself)

      Then go to person&computer D, and say you have distributed to B, C & E. Pay us for 3 copies (plus the copy you downloaded for yourself). So on and so forth until A

      A has then distributed 4 copies to all of B-E (plus the one it has originally, but presumably thats paid for).

      So if the studio got paid for 4 copies from each of the 5 participants in the download, thats 20 copies + the 1 originally purchased. But we know there can only be 5 copies total - one of which was paid for.

      If uploads were counted on only a 1:1 basis, the compensation would be 1 copy each for A:E so 5 copies + one original for 6. Much more reasonable.

    7. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by InfinityMinusOne · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is a very strange argument. If I torrent a movie and let it seed indefinitely, I will almost certainly have distributed more than one copy of the film. Did the justice really believe that torrenting is a one-for-one kind of activity where a downloaded work is uploaded once and only once? I haven't read the decision, but I wonder how much of it concerned downloading versus uploading.

      Actually, the judge is correct. Some people seed more, some people seed less, but on average the number of uploads for each bittorent participant is equal to 1.

      The reason is, for any given file distributed through bittorrent, the average number of uploads or downloads per person is each equal to the total number of uploads or downloads, divided by the number of persons participating. Since each kilobyte downloaded is uploaded by someone else, the total number of uploads and downloads are equal. So the average number of uploads per person has to be equal to the average number of downloads per person. And for any participant, that average number of downloads is 1.

      I'm ignoring the possibility of incomplete downloads, blocks that needed to be re-downloaded, or the fact that the original seeder didn't need to download the file, but those are fairly minor factors that will not substantially alter the result.

    8. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by Dr+Damage+I · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In order to understand this portion of the ruling, one must assume that the judge is not referring to persons making the file available, but to persons downloading the file. Which makes sense, because otherwise you end up double counting many times over: Once you start counting uploads, you multiply the total number of violations without increasing the number of copies being made.

      Suppose you have 1 file, 10 persons making copies and one person seeding the file (A highly simplified example for the sake of argument). if you count only downloads, you have 10 infringements: equal to the number of copies being made of the file. I assume that the recording companies would like to count uploads as well, including partial uploads. In which case, each person downloading the file would also be uploading portions of the file to up to 9 other people for a potential maximum of 110 infringements (the seeding user uploads to 10 people, each downloader downloads 1 time and uploads to as many as 9 people) where only 10 copies of the file were actually made. A fairly bizarre outcome IMO.

      --
      "Cursed is he who rises early in the morning..." Isiah 5:11
    9. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by jeffrey.endres · · Score: 1

      Just because you're able to copy my file doesn't make me responsible.

      No, that would be publishing the file which assuming that you did not have permission to publish, would be copyright infringement. If you did that however, neither I nor anybody else, would be under any obligation to stop you from publishing it or stop others from downloading it.

    10. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by complete+loony · · Score: 1

      a person makes each film available online only once through the BitTorrent system and electronically transmits each film only once through that system

      Copyright refers to the right to make copies. Downloading doesn't make a copy it merely saves it, the copy is made by the uploader. And assuming you are running a bittorrent client with a seed ratio of 100% (or at least, less than 200%), then you only upload one whole copy (in many small pieces to many other people). Even seeding the initial copy can be done with a ratio only slightly higher than 100%.

      I believe the judges ruling is perfectly consistent with the implementation of the bittorrent protocol.

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    11. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by wvmarle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In my opinion, making available is close to publishing. It is surely debatable whether "making available" is copyright infringement. I think the consensus here is that "publishing" a work that you have no copyright (license) of is copyright infringement. Then the question is how would "making available" differ from "publishing", and how would this clear one from infringement?

      If I were to take a book (which is under copyright, and not mine) and make a dozen copies of that. As long as I keep those in my house and do not show it to anyone, it may fall under "fair use" depending on your jurisdiction. Actually probably this is already infringement but that's besides the point.

      Now I go sit on a busy street corner, with those books on a table in front of me, for anyone who comes by to take a copy from me. I allow them, do not charge for the paper and printing cost or anything, that's my decision. Is this publishing or making available? What if no-one takes a copy, am I suddenly clear of copyright infringement?

      Similar for when I would take this book, scan it electronically, make a torrent out of it, and publish it on a torrent site. Am I merely making it available? Am I publishing? And if so: what is the difference between "making available" and "publishing"?

    12. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by shadowbearer · · Score: 2, Interesting

        What does it matter? There is no possible way that all the uploaders or downloaders can be prosecuted in the court systems, even globally; and as the internet continues to expand, the "problem" is only going to get more complicated (worse, from the copyright holders perspectives)

        Even assuming the courts don't have better things to do... sooner or later, the courts are going to have to acknowledge that it's an unsolvable problem.

        From a technical standpoint, this issue was done and over with more than a quarter of a century ago (ie, there is never going to be any human-derived copyright protection system that can't be broken by someone smarter or more determined ). That the argument continues to get worse now says a lot more about our society and culture than it does about the technical problems.

        So let's just leave the technical side out of it already! Sheese... this has been said millions of times...

      SB
        (Master of restating the obvious, but obviously someone has to do it... again)

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
    13. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 1

      Personally, I think it should be interpreted thus:
      Download = 1 infringement, simply because you copied the media. Fair enough, and the judge seems to have done this.
      Upload = Assisting infringement (if there is such a thing) based on share ratio, if applicable depending on where the peers are located (eg, nation states that don't have treaty or other problem with copying don't count): so it's not 3000 copies based on the number of client connections, it's 0.27 or whatever the number works out to be. Note that this is only once you've shared above the fair use threshold, perhaps 10% depending on local law.

      Moreover, it's also NOT BitTorrent that was the enabler, it's the user. I use BT for free software torrents all the time. It's just a procotol, and the sooner the Judges figure that out the better.

      --
      Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    14. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by masher_oz · · Score: 1

      I can see what you mean there; it is a fine line.. Although the analogy would be more along the lines of you have one book, and the passers-by photocopy it for themselves...

    15. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did not read the entire article but skimmed quite a bit of it, and it seems they understand a whole hell of a lot about how the BitTorrent system works.

      The basic idea that each user only transmits once relates to the phrase 'making available online', and how there are no temporal specifics associated with the phrase.

      Since you start sharing pieces of a file as soon as the download starts, then you could arbitrarily assign anything from 1 to infinite distributions depending on how thin your time slices are. The only logical way around this is to assume that someone only 'makes available online' once, at the exact moment they become a seeder.

    16. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      That is why I mentioned taking the cost and so, taking that out of the equation. After all copying a paper book involves much more work than copying an e-book, which of course is why so few people are actually doing it. And that is where these real world vs the Internet analogies tend to break down.

      Copying a CD to tape costs money (the tape), work and some practice (putting it all in the machine, pressing buttons at the right time, adjusting levels, whatnot), while downloading an mp3 file over the Internet is much easier. Copying a book is even more work.

    17. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by Kjella · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What does it matter? There is no possible way that all the uploaders or downloaders can be prosecuted in the court systems, even globally; and as the internet continues to expand, the "problem" is only going to get more complicated (worse, from the copyright holders perspectives)

      Because they will try very hard to make unreasonable allegations against each person, and unreasonable damages for each alleged infringement. Giving people 100,000$ in a speeding ticket because they don't catch 99% of those speeding wouldn't be justice, it'd be law enforcement by terror. The copyright industry is dying the death of a thousand needles, and would like each needle to count as murder.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    18. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by imakemusic · · Score: 1

      Wikipedia would agree with you:

      "Publishing: the activity of making information available for public view."

      --
      Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
    19. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      That same article also includes distributing and marketing into "publishing" so it's more than passively making it available. Then posting it on TPB is, in a way, "marketing".

      Actually, in case of BitTorrent, the only case that I am aware of that someone has been prosecuted and punished (jail in this case) has been here in Hong Kong. A man was jailed for putting three movies on BitTorrent: he was the original seed, created the .torrent, uploaded it, etc. To me that is clearly publishing in the traditional sense. He actively made the material available with the intention of passing it on to other people.

    20. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by jeffrey.endres · · Score: 1

      I know that the copyright laws here in Australia have changed recently, but it used to be that we didn't have any "fair use" rights at all. The way the law stood, even local cache of a website for example, was an infringement. Thankfully that at least has been fixed.

      I'm not too sure what the limits are now, but we don't have anywhere near the rights available in the US. Although we did get their extended length of copyright protection thanks to the Free Trade act. That's free as in free to get screwed over not in free as in beer... :/

      http://www.copyright.org.au/pdf/acc/infosheets_pdf/g091.pdf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_copyright_law#List_of_some_possibly_non-violating_actions_in_Australia

    21. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by Philip_the_physicist · · Score: 1

      The difference is that it is not the number of infringements that matter, but how much of the original work is infringed. If I were to upload 1/10 of the file 10 times, that does the same damage as me uploading the whole file once.

    22. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now I go sit on a busy street corner, with those books on a table in front of me, for anyone who comes by to take a copy from me. I allow them, do not charge for the paper and printing cost or anything, that's my decision. Is this publishing or making available?

      This case is like the author's agents/publishing company sueing the council for letting you set up on that street.

      In my mind, yes, you are both publishing AND making available, and so liable. As far as the difference between 'making available' and 'publishing', well, I'd have to say that publishing would include having a sign up saying 'Free book!' (or, in torrent terms, making a tracker).

      If you break into a bank, and are standing at the entrance to the vault, but don't take any money, you have already committed a crime, regardless of if you actually took any money or not.

    23. Re:Users only infringe *once* per file by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

        Which is exactly zero damage. Anyone going to the effort to download the files in the first place is not going to purchase them anyway (there are exceptions, but those exceptions benefit the industry as a whole)

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
  20. Re:Sentator Conroy by MichaelSmith · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No. Conroy is a tool. Getting rid of him won't change the underlying problem.

  21. Re:Sentator Conroy by Sam+Ritchie · · Score: 1

    "It's an election promise! Therefore, normal rules of legislative diligence do not apply!"

    Unfortunately Stephen Conroy is at the top of the senate ticket in Victoria and even a targeted campaign has practically no chance of unseating him.

    --
    This sig is false.
  22. Almost there... by fremean · · Score: 1

    Now, if we could just get rid of Conroy and Aktinson - I could almost be proud to call my self an Aussie again...

    1. Re:Almost there... by aiht · · Score: 1

      Hear, hear!

  23. Doh! by Capsaicin · · Score: 1

    Needless to say, we in Australia don't have "proper" separation of powers because the administrative and judicial powers are combined.

    I beg your pardon. The administrative and legislative powers are combined!

    --
    Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
    1. Re:Doh! by spudda · · Score: 1

      correct. In Australia the Executive is part of the legislative branch of Government. There is no separation between them (unlike America where its Administration is not also in the parliament / congress)

  24. Loved the line by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    'The law recognises no positive obligation on any person to protect the copyright of another.
    The law only recognises a prohibition on the doing of copyright acts without the licence of the copyright owner or exclusive licensee, or the authorisation of those acts."
    From http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCA/2010/24.html
    Roadshow Films Pty Ltd v iiNet Limited (includes summary) (No. 3) [2010] FCA 24 (4 February 2010)

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  25. The best quote of the ruling by tick-tock-atona · · Score: 4, Interesting

    To use the rather colourful imagery that internet piracy conjures up in a highly imperfect analogy, the file being shared in the swarm is the treasure, the BitTorrent client is the ship, the .torrent file is the treasure map, The Pirate Bay provides treasure maps free of charge and the tracker is the wise old man that needs to be consulted to understand the treasure map.

    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCA/2010/24.html

  26. Re-arranging the Applicants by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I've re-arranged the applicants based on ownership or affiliation (including distribution deals); the last number in brackets is the order on the list. Not a lot is left....

    NBC UNIVERSAL:
      UNIVERSAL PICTURES (AUSTRALIA) PTY LTD (11)
      UNIVERSAL PICTURES INTERNATIONAL B.V (13)
      UNIVERSAL CITY STUDIOS LLLP (2)
      UNIVERSAL CITY STUDIOS PRODUCTIONS LLLP (14)
      UNIVERSAL STUDIOS INTERNATIONAL B.V. (27)
      NBC STUDIOS, INC (19)
      RINGERIKE GMBH & CO KG (15) (Movie: "Wanted" (2008))
      INTERNATIONALE FILMPRODUKTION BLACKBIRD VIERTE GMBH & CO KG (16) (Movie: "Mummy 3" (2008))
      MDBF ZWEITE FILMGESELLSCHAFT MBH & CO KG (17) (Movie: "The Kingdom" (2007))
      INTERNATIONALE FILMPRODUCKTION RICHTER GMBH & CO KG (18) (Movie: "Mamma Mia!" (2008))

    VIACOM:
      PARAMOUNT PICTURES CORPORATION (3)
      PARAMOUNT HOME ENTERTAINMENT (AUSTRALASIA) PTY LTD (8)

    TIME WARNER:
      WARNER BROS. ENTERTAINMENT INC. (4)
      WARNER BROS ENTERTAINMENT AUSTRALIA PTY LTD (32)
      WARNER BROS INTERNATIONAL TELEVISION DISTRIBUTION INC (21)
      WARNER HOME VIDEO PTY LTD (23)
      VILLAGE ROADSHOW FILMS (BVI) LTD (12)
      PATALEX III PRODUCTIONS LIMITED (24) (Movie: "Batman Begins" (2005))
      LONELY FILM PRODUCTIONS GMBH & CO KG (25) (Movie: "Blood Diamond" (2006))

    WALT DISNEY CO.:
      DISNEY ENTERPRISES, INC. (5)
      BUENA VISTA HOME ENTERTAINMENT, INC. (9)
      DREAMWORKS FILMS L.L.C (20)

    NEWS CORP:
      TWENTIETH CENTURY FOX FILM CORPORATION (7)
      TWENTIETH CENTURY FOX FILM CORPORATION (AUSTRALIA) PTY LIMITED (10)
      TWENTIETH CENTURY FOX HOME ENTERTAINMENT INTERNATIONAL CORPORATION (22)
      TWENTIETH CENTURY FOX HOME ENTERTAINMENT LLC (33)

    SONY:
      SONY PICTURES ANIMATION INC (26)
      SONY PICTURES HOME ENTERTAINMENT PTY LTD (28)
      COLUMBIA PICTURES INDUSTRIES, INC (6)
      GH ONE LLC (29) (Movie: "Ghost Rider" (2007))
      GH THREE LLC (30) (Movie: "21" (2008), "Vantage Point" (2008), etc.)
      BEVERLY BLVD LLC (31) (co-financing fund with Relativity Media)

    SEVEN NETWORK (OPERATIONS) LTD (34)

  27. Stupid samzenpus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Landmark ruling" and Australia don't mix. Who gives rat's ass?!

  28. No each state and territory does not a Supreme Crt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    The gollowing 5 states do not have a supreme court

    Ashmore and Cartier Islands
    Australian Antarctic Territory
    Coral Sea Islands Territory
    Heard Island and McDonald Islands
    Jervis Bay Territory

    Special award goes to
    Cocos (Keeling) Islands, with a population of 628 people they have found a need for their own supreme court. This may just create the must supreme court justices per head of population anywhere in the world.

  29. But they have a back door by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    http://www.itwire.com/telecommunications-news/networks/36473-spooks-get-broader-powers-to-bug-internet
    [Australian] Spooks get broader powers to bug internet"
    Isp's can watch and report on traffic, gov agencies can make copies of your isp usage logs.
    Bt would make an isp look, then its just finding out what you looking at.

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  30. Re:Sentator Conroy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    There's a small problem with targeting somebody to lose their Senate seat, especially when that somebody is in one of the two major parties (Labor or Liberal), and especially when that somebody is at the top of that party's Senate ticket for the state in question.

    Basically, Australian Senators are elected on a quota system. Let's say that there are six seats to be filled (as is typically the case at an Australian Federal government election for state senators - each state has twelve seats in the Senate, and the ACT and the Northern Territory have two seats each; half the state senators are elected during most elections, whilst the ACT and NT senators are up for reelection at every election. This varies during a double dissolution election, when ALL seats are up for reelection - twelve seats for each state.) Let's say that there are seven thousand voters in the state (yes, I know there will be more; doing it this way makes the numbers much easier to play with.) Then a quota is (7000/(6+1))+1 votes, or 1001 votes. (In a double dissolution election, the quota would be (7000/(12+1)+1), or 540 votes.) If a given ticket gets 2002 votes, then that means they automatically have two quotas, and their top two candidates are given Senate positions.

    There are a lot more intricate details to do with how surplus votes from a given ticket flow on to the next candidate, but they're not really relevant here. The point is, basically, that unless the Labor party decides to put Conroy further down in the ticket - to the third or fourth position - he's safely ensconced, and can't be ousted.

    More's a pity.

  31. Please mod this up by causality · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Sorry but I suspect the endgame is presented in this http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/02/04/2809856.htm quote: Outside court, Australian Federation Against Copyright Theft executive director Neil Gane said he was disappointed with the decision. He said the case was lodged to try to protect the livelihoods of the thousands of Australians who work in the television and film industries. Mr Gane said he was confident that the Federal Government would now review the laws surrounding copyright infringement. as the saying goes, who needs judges and courts when you can afford politicians.

    Please mod this up. A good study of history will show you that people who live for power and control do not give up easily. They would not see this as a defeat; it is merely a setback that requires a change of tactics. They know very well that they need only one major victory and thereafter, the result they want will become enshrined in law and almost impossible to repeal. To give a seemingly unrelated example, the USA income tax was "temporary". It's temporary alright, in the sense that one day the sun will stop shining...

    --
    It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    1. Re:Please mod this up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's unfortunate for you, snowflake.

    2. Re:Please mod this up by TehDuffman · · Score: 1

      To give a seemingly unrelated example, the USA income tax was "temporary". It's temporary alright, in the sense that one day the sun will stop shining...

      Amendments to the constitution are rarely temporary...

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

    3. Re:Please mod this up by inKubus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      iNet has no control over BitTorrent system and [is] not responsible for BitTorrent system.

      To define it as a system is interesting, when it's really a "society". Bittorrent is simply the protocol of the society of people who wish to acquire media on the internet in a free (not as in beer) manner. If the media companies could provide a way to allow people to pay a reasonable licensing fee by choice for the content they provide then people would use it. Unfortunately the vast majority of people don't feel the content is worth what they charge. But the same individuals are also motivated by social pressure to watch the content, pressure that is created by the media advertising. So they make us want the content, but then don't provide it at a reasonable cost. This causes humans to naturally seek the path of least resistance, even if it means bending a few "laws" that are out of date and not really even relevant any more. Media would love to be drug pushers and they really are to a certain extent. Where it breaks down is that they create demand and are unable to provide supply therefore the free market takes over and makes it available. There is only one solution, to stop making the content, or to form a police state that regulates the content for the companies. Neither are a viable solution for anyone. Their profits will plummet in either situation. So what will happen is that there will be more consolidation in the industry, less competition, and only the company that can make content people want for as cheaply as possible will succeed. It looks like iTunes was a pretty good first guess. People will pay $1 for things if it's convenient. I don't see the industry going out of it's way to increase the convenience of acquiring their content so likely they will fold and the people who actually make the content will have to find a new way make it cheaply and get it to the customer.

      --
      Cool! Amazing Toys.
    4. Re:Please mod this up by NoMaster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you read the ruling (I'm ~ 1/2 way through it now), he defines it as a 'system' primarily in order to distinguish BitTorrent (the whole kit & caboodle) from BitTorrent (the protocol), BitTorrent Inc. (the company), and various BitTorrent clients (which, to quote from para 60, "include Vuze, and, rather confusingly, the BitTorrent Client, which is the BitTorrent client of BitTorrent Inc."). In doing so, he nicely separates the technical, legal, and 'social' aspects - and decides purely on the legalities.

      (Yeah, 'social' in quotes - look, I'm old, so personally I'd argue against BT being some sort of expression of a proto techno-utopian society. I don't get Facebook or Twitter either ;-)

      Read the whole thing - it's remarkably easy to read (as decisions from Australian courts often are), well explained, and the decision is well thought out and justified.

      There's plenty of wry giggles to be found in there too - his explanation of the whole studio / AFACT / MPA / MPAA relationship, his respectful smackdown of many of AFACT's claims & arguments, and more - plus some interesting points regarding related issues such as the number of infringing copies each user is responsible for (hint: not as many as the MPAA / RIAA likes to usually claim).

      In short, this is a guy who either had a good handle on the tech beforehand, or has listened well to both the technical and legal arguments of both sides, and has ruled based on both the way the tech works and the law.

      --
      What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
    5. Re:Please mod this up by Yaa+101 · · Score: 1

      I really wonder why you were moderated as troll, but I can't help you as I do not moderate.

    6. Re:Please mod this up by GooberToo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      allow people to pay a reasonable licensing fee by choice for the content they provide

      This is a straw man used time and time again. Even several studies prove otherwise. People steal just because they can and its usually driven by a sense of self entitlement. In other words, you have it, I want it, therefore you should give it to me, without any regard for its cost. Why pay $0.99 for a song when I'm not only entitled to it, but can receive that entitlement for free?

      At the end of the day, people are stealing because they can and the price is seemingly not an issue. And saying they wouldn't have otherwise payed for it is also a straw man as most studies indicate somewhere between 10%-25% who stole it would have otherwise purchased it. And for smaller businesses, taking a loss of 10%-25% can be a make or break deal. While not in any studies I've read, I strongly suspect that if the sense of self entitlement were addressed, that percentage would likely rise.

    7. Re:Please mod this up by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      Why pay $0.99 for a song when I'm not only entitled to it, but can receive that entitlement for free?

      I am entitled to it. I (being a member of the People) just voluntarily allow only you (the content creator) to manage it for a limited period of time.

      That said, I view copyrights longer than 30 years as simply invalid and a breach of the social contract. I'd petition to change the laws, but I simply don't have the cash to do that.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    8. Re:Please mod this up by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      I am entitled to it. I (being a member of the People) just voluntarily allow only you (the content creator) to manage it for a limited period of time.

      Not until the copyright expires. I have no problem with reasonable copyright terms but this is yet another straw man as its completely orthogonal to the issue at hand. Excessive copyright terms are not justification to steal something today. So contrary to your flawed assertion, no you absolutely are not entitled to it as you see fit, on your terms and no other.

    9. Re:Please mod this up by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not until the copyright expires. I have no problem with reasonable copyright terms but this is yet another straw man as its completely orthogonal to the issue at hand. Excessive copyright terms are not justification to steal something today. So contrary to your flawed assertion, no you absolutely are not entitled to it as you see fit, on your terms and no other.

      You are also using terms like stealing which I believe implies a more extreme form of infringement (deliberately taking another's work and then reproducing it for sale), so your standards and my standards are different.

      I simply view the current copyright laws as a breach of the social contract and since I don't have the pockets to fix it, or the time/money to push something like that to the supreme court, Perhaps if my hardware wasn't intentionally crippled in order to prevent something that I wasn't doing in the first place. It has just reached the point where I simply have no care for it anymore. At least not in the state it is in now. As you have these companies lobbying to have a system instituted whereby people's Right to Free Speech can be stripped under very light judicial oversight... again, I simply refuse to honor it anymore.

      Much as if I saw someone smoking Marijuana. I don't care if it is illegal, the government is in the wrong trying to enforce such laws and I can not in good conscience support the prosecution of such 'crimes'. I don't personally do it as I have other motivations and reasonings, but I'd abstain from supporting any efforts to prosecute.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    10. Re:Please mod this up by GooberToo · · Score: 1

      I don't care if it is illegal, the government is in the wrong trying to enforce such laws

      It seems you're more than happy to work for zero compensation, and plan to do so for the rest of your life. If this is not true, you're a hypocrite. So which is it? You'll never and have never accepted a paycheck and therefore your argument may have a tiny glimmer of legitimacy or you're full of crap and everyone should ignore you?

      That's what I thought.

    11. Re:Please mod this up by Reziac · · Score: 1

      But when, as another reply points out, the social contract of copyright has been skewed to where advantage is all in one direction, and the *intended public benefit* no longer exists. ALL benefit now goes to the copyright holder, which was not the original idea at all. (Remember those words, "to enrich the public domain"??)

      Hence I'd say that to be truly fair, one should abstain from infringement *during the period set forth in =original= copyright law*, being a reasonable period in which to earn whatever the content is worth. But after that -- since the content holders have broken their side of the agreement by indefinitely and unilaterally extending copyright, society should not be required to hold to their side of the social contract beyond the original agreement. This is no different than any contract where one party has broken faith -- after that point the second party is no longer obligated either.

      And this is not at all the same thing as your assertion that it's the same as "working for nothing" (copyright was never intended to ensure income in any case, only to give a fair chance at it -- NOT an effectively infinite chance, either). As it stands, we-the-people are in the same position as an employer who is prohibited from firing an increasingly costly employee, because the employee is allowed to unilaterally extend the terms of his employment contract.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
  32. Ad in the trading post by mjwx · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    1 Minister, slightly used, in good cond. 8 months left in office. $15,000 ONO

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  33. I'll just fix that for ya... by Eth1csGrad1ent · · Score: 1

    AFACT would usually lie to the Full Court (of the FedCrt) and then to the High Court of Australia...

  34. Re:No each state and territory does not a Supreme by Viridae · · Score: 1

    The gollowing 5 states do not have a supreme court

    Ashmore and Cartier Islands Australian Antarctic Territory Coral Sea Islands Territory Heard Island and McDonald Islands Jervis Bay Territory

    Special award goes to Cocos (Keeling) Islands, with a population of 628 people they have found a need for their own supreme court. This may just create the must supreme court justices per head of population anywhere in the world.

    None of those are states.

  35. Good luck to the people of Oz by ALeader71 · · Score: 0

    I hope your civil rights struggles against your government go well.

    --
    Only the dead have seen the end of War. - Plato
  36. I like this... by Asadullah+Ahmad · · Score: 1

    Justice Cowdroy said that the 'mere provision of access to internet is not the means to infringement'

    We desperately need more lawmakers and Judges like this. And a few more wise folks who see beyond the smoke of copyright infringement fiasco.

    But then again, dreams like these seldom become reality in today's world.

  37. The doctrine of corporate personality by Capsaicin · · Score: 1

    can you demonstrate that what you said actually applies to Australia?

    Sure. Just look at the name of the present case Roadshow Films Pty Ltd v iiNet Limitedi , for instance.

    I'm assuming you realise that in Australian law, and action in rem is available only in admiralty, yes?

    "The splinter in your eye is the best magnifying glass." -- TW Adorno

    --
    Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
  38. How many bytes in a Megabyte? by criminy · · Score: 2, Funny

    63. As an aside, a ‘byte’ is a term that refers to a certain amount of data, namely 8 ‘bits’. A bit is either a zero or a one, given that computers compute by means of binary code. A ‘kilobyte’ is 1024 bytes, a ‘megabyte’ is 1024 kilobytes and a ‘gigabyte’ is 1024 megabytes.

    Let the flamewar begin...

    1. Re:How many bytes in a Megabyte? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      63. As an aside, a ‘byte’ is a term that refers to a certain amount of data, namely 8 ‘bits’. A bit is either a zero or a one, given that computers compute by means of binary code. A ‘kilobyte’ is 1024 bytes, a ‘megabyte’ is 1024 kilobytes and a ‘gigabyte’ is 1024 megabytes.

      Let the flamewar begin...

      The COURTS defining what a Megabyte is?!?!? How dare they decide the proper size and arrangement of digital information, that is the innate right of consenting hardware! Why this is an example of activist judiciary at it's most foul! Sure many of you may think I'm overreacting. Yet mark my words, next they will be deciding if a UID have the right to kill it's own processes, what can or cannot be taught in hex-education classes, or whether structured and object-oriented programming should be presented as equally valid "theories"!

  39. The inevitable... by jayegirl · · Score: 1

    Up next, dogs and cats living together.

  40. Theft or no theft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The court even took issue with the MPAA/RIAA pushed idea that copyright infringement is theft:

    p 171 As an aside, the Court notes that AFACT, the organisation which the applicants use to aid in enforcement of their copyright, itself blurs the distinction between tortuous copyright infringement and criminal acts involving copyright, as seen in its name: Australian Federation Against Copyright *Theft* [emphasis added (by the court)].

  41. WTF? Why was this marked troll? by mjwx · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    Can someone point out what was offensive in there?

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    1. Re:WTF? Why was this marked troll? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You implied patriotism is bad... on a US site.

      I agree with you, but I'm not surprised the more 'trollish mods' tried to censor you.

    2. Re:WTF? Why was this marked troll? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Saying that you try hard to marginalise freedom defending patriots. Not sure, just guessing. You probably live in a quite closed community of trolls, so don't realise how offensive that is to most other Australians.

      Spend some time in the factories or other blue collar (majority) workplaces and find out what reaction you get when you suggest patriotism is equivalent to racism. Arsehole. Most of us love our country, you can fuck off.

    3. Re:WTF? Why was this marked troll? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your sympathies for blow-ins and inner-city latte sipping holier-than-though attitude to the common man?

      People like you are destroying this country.

    4. Re:WTF? Why was this marked troll? by Lunzo · · Score: 1

      Wow, asking a question is now flamebait? Moderate the post, not the poster and -1 doesn't mean you disagree with the post...

  42. BitTorrent next? by cbope · · Score: 1

    So now that the finger's been pointed at the BT protocol, does that mean they go after it after they failed to hold the "internets" responsible? I really fear for the long-term survival of the BT protocol due to cases like this. It's going to end up as the scape-goat and ISP's will start to block it since it's obviously only used for illegal activities. I mean the media companies wouldn't lie, would they?

  43. As an iiNet Customer.... by mambodog · · Score: 1

    Thank fuck!

  44. direct link to judgement by shungi · · Score: 1

    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/FCA/2010/24.html link to judgement The following is from the summary - I think it is an interesting finding particularly with respect to the large damages payouts you get in those US cases: " The first step in making a finding of authorisation was to determine whether certain iiNet users infringed copyright. I have found that they have. However, in reaching that finding, I have found that the number of infringements that have occurred are significantly fewer than the number alleged by the applicants. This follows from my finding that, on the evidence and on a proper interpretation of the law, a person makes each film available online only once through the BitTorrent system and electronically transmits each film only once through that system. This excludes the possible case of a person who might repeatedly download the same file, but no evidence was presented of such unusual and unlikely circumstance. Further, I have found, on the evidence before me, that the iiNet users have made one copy of each film and have not made further copies onto physical media such as DVDs."

  45. Re:No each state and territory does not a Supreme by asaul · · Score: 1

    Because they are territories of the federal government, and IANAL but I believe they fall under the Federal court.

    --
    "If everybody is thinking alike, somebody isn't thinking" - Gen. George S. Patton
  46. Pirates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    iiNet - pronounced aye-aye-net? Pass me my parrot and wooden leg...

  47. Re:Sentator Conroy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Indeed - he is a tool!

  48. Meanwhile in another court in Oz... by knarf · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...a deaf judge seems to have presided over a case against Men at Work in which it is claimed that their song 'Down Under' plagiarizes a song from 1935 named 'Kookaburra Sits in the Old Gum Tree'. I listened to that song. It is nothing at all like the flute riff in 'Down Under'. Still... They Won. What do you think?

    --
    --frank[at]unternet.org
  49. Links of doom by paxcoder · · Score: 1

    Now if only we can explain that trackers don't hold any content, only a means for people to connect to eachother, and that P2P networks aren't inherently evil, that'd be great.

  50. Holy Wall of Text Superman! by mschirmer · · Score: 0

    n/t

  51. Ripper result. by aaaurgh · · Score: 1

    'bout time we had some legal sanity down here. Now all we need is for bloody Senator Conroy to drop the internet filtering bullshit and we'll all be happy campers.

    --

    Go permanent? In your dreams and my worst nightmares.
  52. As an Optus Customer.... by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 1

    As an Optus customer for about eleven years (basically since they first took the field against Telstra) I have to say that I'm quite satisfied with my current ISP.

    On the other hand, I feel this rather insistent urge to start looking over iiNet's web page, see what they offer. Just out of curiosity, y'know. Don't use the Optus POP3 email address much any more, anyway. Hmm...

    --
    Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
  53. Dennis, actually by hicksw · · Score: 1

    "The Federal Court dismissed legal proceedings against iiNet on 4 February 2010. Judge, Dennis Cowdroy, rejected the Australian Federation Against Copyright Theft's claim that the ISP encouraged its customers to engage in piracy."

    from http://research.scottrade.com/public/markets/news/news.asp?docKey=100-035i6776-1&section=headlines