Nexus One First Phone Linus Torvalds "Doesn't Hate"

SpuriousLogic writes "Linus Torvalds, the inventor of the Linux kernel, has an absolute disdain for mobile phones. All of the ones he has purchased in the past, the man writes on his personal blog, ended up being 'mostly used for playing Galaga and Solitaire on long flights' even though they were naturally all phones run on open source operating systems. Things have changed now, he adds, now that he has caved and bought Google's Nexus One a couple of days ago."

Comments

He bought one?

[suso]

Why? I mean the man is responsible for the free kernel that the phones use. The least companies could do is send him a free one with service contract. I thought Linus did get gifts like that.

Re:He bought one?

[Philip K Dickhead]

Hell. Now even Linus is slave to the Google panopticon.

Hope you like your new, NSA hotline, Mr. Torvalds!

Re:He bought one?

[suffix tree monkey]

The least companies could do is send him a free one with service contract.

Well, it's not technically Linux these phones use, as it's now an incompatible Linux fork. So, I guess like the authors of this article, the company told Linus to go fork himself.

Re:He bought one?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you'll find he's actually called GNU/Linus Torvalds - he's only responsible for the kernel, not the hardware, service contracts or any free gifts.

Re:He bought one?

[BlackCreek]

Linus appears to have less hysterical take on the Android Linux fork than most people:

I don't worry about out-of-tree development for odd devices too much. I wish we could merge android, but I also accept it likely being a few years away. We had similar out-of-tree issues with the SGI extreme scalability stuff, and it took quite a while before the standard kernel merged all of that.

Re:He bought one?

[chill]

What is this "new" of which you speak?

Re:He bought one?

[bain_online]

Well the difference is that RH mostly tries to get those changes back in to the mainline. And many RH devs are working close with upstream.
Google on the other hand just got kicked out because they showed no interest.

Re:He bought one?

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

"Doesn't hate."

Dammned with faint praise...

Re:He bought one?

[eihab]

Linus appears to have less hysterical take on the Android Linux fork [blogspot.com] than most people

Very smart your argument! I also wait Android Linux Fork hear in Brazil!

This ought to be a new Slashdot meme.

Re:He bought one?

[GooberToo]

Well, it's not technically Linux these phones use, as it's now an incompatible Linux fork. So, I guess like the authors of this article, the company told Linus to go fork himself.

Well, what you're saying is not technically true either.

These phones absolutely do run the Linux kernel and anyone who says otherwise is misleading at best and trolling at worst. Period. Just because a single device driver was recently removed from the official source tree does not suddenly make the kernel any less Linux. To suggest that's the case is ignorance or stupidity.

The reality is, Android uses their own driver for power management. Their design stinks. They've refused to maintain it in the official source tree. The stinking, unmaintained driver was removed. Despite no longer being maintained in the official source tree, Google continues to maintain it in their own kernel tree - which is freely accessible to all. This was all previously covered here on /. Having said all that, it is extremely common for external drivers to be maintained outside of the official source tree for a variety of reasons. This is one of the primary reasons the dkms project exists.

Furthermore, since the source portion of Android's framework which accesses the power management driver is freely available, if someone wanted to, they could easily change the internal implementation to use Linux's official power management interface rather than Google's driver. Battery life is likely to only slightly suffer. And with small improvements to Linux's existing power management infrastructure, to bring it more in line with Google's implementation goals, battery life parity can be achieved while maintaining full Android compatibility.

At the end of the day, removal of the driver from the official source tree changes nothing for anyone.

Re:He bought one?

[2short]

I love how smug he is in saying "the fact that it's a phone is secondary"

What a douche.

Telephone call quality and reliability first for me, Galaga and "that pinch-to-zoom thing" second...

So wanting different things than you makes someone a douche? What a douche.

If I'm going to bother carrying the thing around, it may as well be a phone, but that's well beyond second in my feature priority list. YMMV.

Re:He bought one?

[eln]

I hate talking on the phone, and I avoid it at all costs. I use my phone primarily for texting, the Internet, and games. The fact that it's also capable of making and receiving telephone calls is just a (sometimes unwanted) bonus.

Re:He bought one?

[bryonak]

And many RH devs are the upstream.

There, fixed that for you.

Re:He bought one?

[PopeRatzo]

Dammned (sic) with faint praise...

Actually, the "doesn't hate" line doesn't appear anywhere in Linus' words. His actual statement about the Nexus One is not "faint" at all.

From Linus' own blog (TFA):

"But I have to admit, the Nexus One is a winner. I wasn't enthusiastic about buying a phone on the internet sight unseen, but the day it was reported that it finally had the pinch-to-zoom thing enabled, I decided to take the plunge. I've wanted to have a GPS unit for my car anyway, and I thought that google navigation might finally make a phone useful. And it does. What a difference! I no longer feel like I'm dragging a phone with me "just in case" I would need to get in touch with somebody - now I'm having a useful (and admittedly pretty good-looking) gadget instead."

That doesn't sound anything like "damning with faint praise" now, does it?

Re:He bought one?

[AaxelB]

"Doesn't hate."

Dammned with faint praise...

On the other hand, it could be litotes; emphasizing something by negating its opposite. From the title/summary, it's ambiguous, but from TFA it looks like he truly likes the phone.

Re:He bought one?

[CharlyFoxtrot]

That's actually high praise coming from the genius that brought you the OS that's legendary for its interface design and easy of use ... oh, wait.

Re:He bought one?

[morgauxo]

Phones suck, they ring and people expect you to interrupt what your doing to answer and then blab on about something unimportant or confirm plans for the umteenth time about something that's still a year off anyway.

I want my phone to be a pocket sized computer with an available everywhere (that I go) data connection. Anything else is just annoying.

Re:He bought one?

[npsimons]

That doesn't sound anything like "damning with faint praise" now, does it?

Even "damning with faint praise" is pretty high approbation, coming from a geek like Linus. Most software geeks are this way; cf. mutt's "All mail clients suck. This one just sucks less." motto, or "X is the second worst windowing system in the world - all the rest are tied for first." re: XWindows. That's not to say that geeks/engineers are more pessimistic than most people - just more honest.

Re:He bought one?

[suffix tree monkey]

Well, what you're saying is not technically true either.

Chris DiBona and other people have stated that it's a fork. So it is a fork. Much like Chromium isn't called Chrome because the brand stands for a "different" product, this kernel shouldn't really be called Linux because it's a fork and there's no intention to make it the official Linux again. Sure, it contains a large part of the Linux kernel and it's free, I didn't say a word about that. But much like Chromium is not Chrome, Iceweasel is not Firefox, this is not Linux (the kernel).

Re:He bought one?

[edumacator]

Sincerest thanks.

An English teacher

Re:He bought one?

[crazycheetah]

Someone posted a link to his actual blog post below: http://torvalds-family.blogspot.com/2010/02/happy-camper.html

taken from it:

I got the original G1 phone from google when it came out, and I hardly ever used it. Why? I generally hate phones - they are irritating and disturb you as you work or read or whatever - and a cellphone to me is just an opportunity to be irritated wherever you are. Which is not a good thing.

At the same time I love the concept of having a phone that runs Linux, and I've had a number of them over the years (in addition to the G1, I had one of the early China-only Motorola Linux phones) etc. But my hatred of phones ends up resulting in me not really ever using them. The G1, for example, ended up being mostly used for playing Galaga and Solitaire on long flights, since I had almost no reason to carry it with me except when traveling.

Re:He bought one?

[crazycheetah]

and yes I'm reading into that... which I shouldn't, I know. I guess that's what happens when I wake up and go on slashdot right away....

Re:He bought one?

[tolkienfan]

Linus wrote a kernel not a GUI.
Oh, and I think you meant "ease of use".
Other than that, great post!

Re:He bought one?

[Sark666]

meant to moderate funny. oops

Re:He bought one?

[GooberToo]

Chris DiBona and other people have stated that it's a fork.

Its a fork only to the degree that anyone who developers a device driver is forking the kernel - which is to say its not. Its a "fork" in the most general of layman's expressions. Technically its not a fork at all. A fork is a divergent source tree. This is not a divergent source tree. This is the official source tree plus a driver. That's a huge difference.

If you want to call it a "fork", fine, but technically that's not accurate. With this definition of fork, every distribution and every device which runs Linux, has a "fork".

Re:He bought one?

[Hognoxious]

He's not just a geek, he's a Finn. They're not very demonstrative of their feelings, to say the least.

Re:He bought one?

[CharlyFoxtrot]

Linus wrote a kernel not a GUI.

I was going for "funny". Since you want to take the argument seriously though, because Linus is indeed an expert but in an unrelated field like you say attaching importance to what he has to say about this gadget is an example of an "Appeal to Misleading Authority."

Oh, and I think you meant "ease of use".

Touchy ... I mean touché. On second thought touchy is probably right.

Other than that, great post!

Gee, thanks ;-)

Re:He bought one?

[RockDoctor]

He's not just a geek, he's a Finn. They're not very demonstrative of their feelings, to say the least.

You've obviously not slept with the same Finns that I have.

Re:He bought one?

[Demonoid-Penguin]

Mod up as informative and concise. Please! (I'm out of points).

Re:He bought one?

[Eternauta3k]

attaching importance to what he has to say about this gadget is an example of an "Appeal to Misleading Authority."

Citing fallacies is an example of failing at life

So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[filesiteguy]

You'd think that a guy like Linus would at least have an in-dash GPS unit so he's not distracted while behind the wheel futzing with the phone.

Hopefully, he's not also eating a cheeseburger while inputting addressess...

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[BitZtream]

Citation Needed

Considering I don't know of anyone who would ever call x86 anything 'big iron', I find it hard to believe a guy who started writing a kernel for himself at home on a 386 PC would say something like that.

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[filesiteguy]

IIRC, his original usenet quote was, "hello everybody out there using minix - I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones."

LOL!

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[Professor_UNIX]

How is using the Nexus One as a GPS any different than a dedicated GPS unit? It has voice input and turn-by-turn voice prompts just like a "real" GPS so there's no need to touch it once you set it in the car dock. The experience of these post-2.0 Android phones is a lot different than the lousy Google Maps feature you'd find in lesser phones like an iPhone.

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[ezzzD55J]

big iron != bare metal, which is what GP presumably meant.

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[Lumpy]

Most "in dash" GPs's are inferior than a $99.00 pocket cheapie.

Why? well the Updates for in dash units are typically so outlandish that nobody buys them A buddy of mine has a BMW 525i that it will cost him $399.00 for the map data update discs, he bought a pocket garmin unit he stuck to the windshield.. I buy a new $99.00 garmin yearly and that not only gives me a new map data set, but new hardware to boot!
  Plus I get POI data. press one button and it will tell me that the next two exits have gas stations and restaurants..

Nope, it's dumb to spend a couple grand on an in dash unit and then pay out the butt yearly for updates.

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[davester666]

so instead he can be distracted by the in-dash gps?

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[Score Whore]

Nope, it's dumb to spend a couple grand on an in dash unit and then pay out the butt yearly for updates.

You know, when people are reaching back behind themselves whenever they need money... they're not digging around in their asses. They have this thing called a wallet and you put money in it. Then you put the wallet in your pocket. And thus you see people reaching back whenever they need some cash.

It's a lot easier than stuffing rolls of coins and wads of cash up your rectum. More hygienic too.

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[dubbreak]

It's a lot easier than stuffing rolls of coins and wads of cash up your rectum. More hygienic too.

However there can be benefits to storing coinage up your rectum.

If you were to say store unrolled rolls of pennies up your rectum then spend them at locations your boss visits then he would surely get some of that change when shopping there. Next time he goes to buy his kid an ice cream or take his wife out for coffee he's using money that has come from your rectum! You just can't buy that kind of superiority.

You think you're better than me? Oh, you're not better than me. You handle my ass pennies every day. You pick up my ass pennies for good luck. You throw my ass pennies in fountains and make wishes on them.

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[sznupi]

I buy a new $99.00 garmin yearly and that not only gives me a new map data set, but new hardware to boot! ...
Nope, it's dumb to spend a couple grand on an in dash unit and then pay out the butt yearly for updates.

Times have changed. Now the biggest manufacturer of cellphones offers proper navigation in their smartphones, with free updates.

It's dumb to spend additional $99 yearly.

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[gander666]

Obligatory Ass Pennies

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[sznupi]

Google Android navigation requires data connection to work (which it does only in the US, apparently...), making it much worse then standalone GPS devices or Nokia Ovi Maps (the latter is essentially identical to standalone GPS, but the updates are free)

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[navyjeff]

It's a lot easier than stuffing rolls of coins and wads of cash up your rectum. More hygienic too.

That's more of a long-term strategy.

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[spire3661]

Cellphones in that range typically cost $500.00 or more before subsidy.

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[johnlcallaway]

Garmin now offers a lifetime update option for $119.99... 'lifetime' being defined as "until your product's useful life expires or Garmin no longer receives map data from its third party supplier". So $600 for unit that has voice recognition, bluetooth, and a large backlit screen, then $119.99 for maps. Seems like a good deal to me. I had my old Garmin for 6 years until it fell off my motorcycle and it wasn't past it's "useful" life yet. I'll pay $720 instead of $600 for 6 years of use if the device provides me $120 more additional functionality.

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[sznupi]

That's only what you were made to believe in.

Nokia 5230 costs a little over $200 without contract, unlocked, with free worldwide navigation.

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[drb_chimaera]

Sure but theres nothing stopping him slinging on a full GPS app like CoPilot onto the Nexus - that stashes all maps on the SD card.

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[sznupi]

There's nothing stopping him from spending more money. Got it.

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[stephanruby]

Garmin now offers a lifetime update option [garmin.com] for $119.99... 'lifetime' being defined as "until your product's useful life expires or Garmin no longer receives map data from its third party supplier".

Which doesn't say much. I purchased a low-end Garmin unit with an SD card slot at Costco two years ago (at the time, the map was already two years old, and the POIs data set was just incomplete -- it didn't have the Points of Interests I was looking for, even the ones that should have been there four years ago, for at least 70% of the time). Now my map is four years old, and they still haven't released any data update (for my specific model) that I could buy.

And since its internals are proprietary, I can't even update the POIs (without hacking Windows Mobile that's it running on -- which I'd rather not do -- it doesn't sound easy). Personally, I'd be careful with Garmin (unless it's their gps watch or something, I have a Garmin 405 and at least that one uses readable xml data interchange format, so I can't complain there).

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[pwfffff]

I think you mean standalone GPS doesn't make phonecalls, surf the web, fit in your pocket, and follow you everywhere... making it much worse than a Nexus One.

You people and your philosophy of having a hundred gadgets that do one thing well were cute back when we couldn't actually cram it all on one device, but now that we pretty much can, what's your excuse?

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[sznupi]

And you conveniently didn't notice that I mentioned also Nokia smartphones...how exactly?

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[pwfffff]

Because Nokia makes standalone GPS devices, that was the current topic of conversation, you didn't explicitly mention their phones (only the company), and I can't read minds... exactly?

If you think being unable to read minds is convenient you have a strange thought process indeed.

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[router]

He can haz cheeseburger?

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[sznupi]

I think being able to read text with basic level of comprehension is expected here; no need for an expectation to read minds which you suggest.

And Nokia Ovi maps, explicitly mentioned by me, is a software running on their smartphones.

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[sl149q]

Had a ride in a Bell Jet Ranger last summer. It had a Garmin GPS stuck on top of the rest of the built in avionics, on the dash so to speak. It was an aviation rated version though... but apparently still a lot cheaper than trying to buy an official upgrade.

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[mdm-adph]

Fine -- "servers" then. Jeez.

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[hazydave]

They do, but only because it helps perpetuate the telco's control over you. They list the phone at $600, and you can pay $200... or even $100... that pricing is pretty plastic (I paid $100 for my DROID, out of pocket). They make it really easy to get a nice pocket computer, but they also know that schlepping these things around, they're lucky to last two years (in the case of an iPhone, the non-replaceable battery doesn't last two years except for casual users). So they'll get you next time.

Meanwhile, you're locked into a contract. You can break it, sure, but they not only have the termination penalty, but you have to pay off that expensive phone.

The bottom line: this prices are a total fiction. You can track this by looking at the devices. Entry level "free" phones these days cost about $20-25 to manufacture, soup to nuts. They list price is usually about $200. Any normal CE product would be around $50. Or take the iPhone... lists at $500-$600. But go to Best Buy.. they have the iPod Touch starting at around $200-$225... same device with about $40 in parts chucked out (cellular modem ~$30, bluetooth chip ~$3, microphone ~$1, etc.)

All the rumors were that Google was going to change this. They didn't.

Obviously, beyond the USA, where telco bundles are not always the rule, things may vary somewhat. Of course, elsewhere it's worse... Canadians have to deal with 3 year contracts as the standard, even given that the industry is only building devices with a 2-year life expectancy.

Re:So he uses the phone for GPS While Driving?

[hazydave]

Kind of expensive.... but if you just wanted the GPS, it sure beats an extra $30/month. Incidently, Garmin's map supplier is NAVTEQ... who is owned by Nokia.

I have a dedicated Pioneer unit in my car -- on dash, but also integrated into the audio system. It cost me $180 plus $25 for the integration amplifier, and a few hours of splicing wires. This gives me a nice 5" screen, voice recognition (not as good as Google's, but few are), excellent bluetooth speakerphone with automatic audio ducking during phone calls, MP3 and video player if I car to, etc. I did pay $50 for one map update... not for life, but "expected life of unit"... well, pretty much the next 100,000 miles in my 2003 Prius, so maybe another map update or two in time.

On the other hand, if I had already had the DROID, I would not likely have bothered installing the Pioneer. Google Nav IS that good. While you do lose satellite views if you lose the wireless link, it does cache the route before you go. So you keep navigating if you lose coverage, or if a phone call comes along (they don't call it "Evolution Data-Only" for nothing, the 3G protocol on the DROID). If you get to your destination and have no data link, THEN you're screwed. The Google Nav team is apparently planning something to help here in the future.

He hates mobile phones?!

[SaidinUnleashed]

How can a Finnish man hate mobile phones?! Aren't they like the national bird there, or something?

Re:He hates mobile phones?!

[LWATCDR]

Yea you would think the would have an N900 wouldn't you?
He has sold out his own birth Nation! How dare he!
Naw it is just a phone and the Nexus one is a pretty nice one at that.

Re:He hates mobile phones?!

[Jazzbunny]

He has same pragmatic approach to the issue as you do. At his blog here he said:

everybody: my dad got himself a N900, so there's one in the family. Don't worry about it, there's room for more than one Linux phone.
I like the Nexus One, maybe I'd like the N900 too. But I certainly don't like cellphones enough to have two.

Re:He hates mobile phones?!

[Lumpy]

Dude, as a phone the N900 lacks a LOT. I was able to sell mine on Ebay to buy a unlocked Nexus One.

I tried to love the N900, as I loved my N710. but it's clunky.

This is coming from a guy that has been die-hard Nokia forever. I tried like heck to love my Nokia 5800 xpressmusic phone. it had a great idea, but was only half there. They almost made it, but not close enough for me to suffer using it day in and day out.

Re:He hates mobile phones?!

[LWATCDR]

But it is a Nokia that runs Linux....
Never mind..

Re:He hates mobile phones?!

[hoggoth]

And now I understand why he spends all of his waking hours programming.

Re:He hates mobile phones?!

[Znork]

Personally, I find the N900 is pretty much the first phone I don't hate. Not that it's so much a phone as a very slick ultraportable that you can make calls with.

I can mount my filesystems at home and play my mp3's over the radio transmitter. I can use it as a GPS. I can use it for pretty much anything I could use a netbook for.

As far as phone functionality goes, I'm considering not bothering and simply keeping the cheap fixed rate unlimited wireless data SIM I've got in it now and simply using skype, or perhaps even going to SIP with a PBX of my own. Meh. We'll see. (hmmm, maybe the n900 can run asterisk and _be_ a pbx...)

If I was looking for a 'phone', on the other hand, I think I'd be looking at one of the $30 ones, and certainly not at any of the current generation smart phones.

Re:He hates mobile phones?!

[VGPowerlord]

Yeah, but it turns out that, in English, Nokia means "Don't buy South Korean cars."

Re:He hates mobile phones?!

[Mister Whirly]

Ah, a riff on the Chevy Nova not selling well in Mexico (means "Doesn't go" in Spanish). Nicely played.

Re:He hates mobile phones?!

[elmartinos]

At least they have mobile phone throwing chamionships...

Re:He hates mobile phones?!

[slaughts]

http://www.snopes.com/business/misxlate/nova.asp

Re:He hates mobile phones?!

[Miamicanes]

From what I've read, Maemo suffers from the same problem that's always plagued Windows Mobile -- it's a great OS for a pocket-sized laptop, but it's not exactly the greatest user environment for making and receiving actual, voice phone calls.

Compare the way Android handles incoming phone calls to the way Windows Mobile and Linux in general do. When Android notices an incoming phone call, it instantly suspends the foreground app and devotes its full attention to handling that incoming call immediately. In start contrast, Windows Mobile and Linux (in general) regard an incoming call as just another event, neither more nor less inherently important than anything else. Well, ok... maybe a LITTLE more important, but with both WinMo and a traditional Linux kernel, you ARE going to end up with situations where an incoming call ends up going to voicemail because the system decided it was just too busy doing something else to deal with the call right that instant.

If the user thinks incoming calls are no big deal, they'll prefer the way WinMo and Linux work. If a user thinks an incoming call that ends up going to voicemail despite his best efforts is a catastrophe, he'll prefer the way Android works. I don't personally know Linus, but I've definitely gotten the impression that he falls into the "do whatever it takes to make the phone first and foremost work flawlessly as a phone" camp. Who knows, it might have even been something as trivial as Linus picking up a friend's N900 with one hand, trying to bring up the phone directory using only his thumb, being unable to guess how to make it happen in 2 seconds, and deciding it just wasn't the paradigm he was looking for.

Re:He hates mobile phones?!

[abhikhurana]

I second that. It has been my favourite "phone" so far. It was only when I started using it, I realised that I didn't want a phone afterall. What I really wanted was a mobile computer, with a brilliant browser and a decent email client, and the ability to make and receive phone calls. I had read many complaints on maemo.org but personally I never noticed any of those problems. From my perspective, it does what I need it do very well (e.g. listening to spotify and transmitting it to my card radio via the builtin fm transmitter, accessing my home computer using VNC, using pandora over vpn). So yes, it works for me brilliantly.

Re:He hates mobile phones?!

[blackpig]

"you ARE going to end up with situations where an incoming call ends up going to voicemail because the system decided it was just too busy doing something else to deal with the call right that instant"

WRT the N900, that's nonsense.
As soon as the N900 rings the 'phone app takes over the whole screen and all I have to do is press answer.

"Who knows, it might have even been something as trivial as Linus picking up a friend's N900 with one hand, trying to bring up the phone directory using only his thumb, being unable to guess how to make it happen in 2 seconds"

Simply pick up the N900 and hold it upright (portrait mode) and the 'phone app starts. Press dialaing pad (with your thumb) and dial.

Have you used an N900?

Re:He hates mobile phones?!

[Mister Whirly]

Yeah, I know it isn't true, but that is what he was referring to.

Re:He hates mobile phones?!

[Miamicanes]

> As soon as the N900 rings the 'phone app takes over the whole screen and all I have to do is press answer.

If that's the case, N900 owners need to evangelize it a bit more. To be honest, they're prett^h^h^h^h^h exceptionally rare (and quite expensive) in the US, so 99.999% of us have to depend upon what we've read about it. To be honest, most of the poor N900 reviews I've read up to this point (including from a few former N900 owners in this article alone) could have been written by someone complaining about why they hate their Windows Mobile phone (as in, almost search-with-replace identical), and most of the rebuttals by happy N900 owners have seemed like they were rationalizing its phone-related deficiencies against its spectacular capabilities as a pocket-sized laptop.

You're actually the first person I've ever seen who actually challenged the perception that it's not great as an actual phone, and illustrated specifically why it's false. Assuming that's the case, it's important to keep getting the word out. Lots of first-generation Android phone owners will be approaching their two-year anniversaries and be looking around for their next phones in another year or so. If the N900's dualcore gigahertz+ 854x480 descendant can manage to solidly do everything Android can without any drawbacks (ideally, with Dalvik ported to it so it can also run most Android apps), Nokia will be in an excellent position to earn back the US market share they lost almost entirely after 2004.

From what I recall, that was around the time they quit making CDMA phones (losing Sprint, Verizon, and roughly 65% of the US phone market in the process), and before they started to support 850MHz UMTS (a 1900/2100-only UMTS phone is a useless GPRS paperweight in the US). In fact, I remember going to a Nokia booth at Dadeland Mall around 2005 or 2006 when they were on tour showing off their new internet tablet and their cutting-edge phones. Let's just say the Nokia evangelists working there were visibly frustrated about having to admit for the N-thousandth time that basically none of the phones they had on display could actually do anything better than GPRS in the United States (I don't think their first UMTS phones were even capable of doing EDGE).

Re:He hates mobile phones?!

[blackpig]

I've read some of those reviews as well. Frankly the N900 doesn't come with a lot of documentation so we're left to discover a lot of the features ourselves. It's one of the few devices I've owned that becomes more engaging and interesting the more you use it, there really isn't any 'phone out there that compares.

Why

[Capt.DrumkenBum]

I am supposed to care about his opinion of smart phones why? I mean I will be happy to listen to anything he has to say about the Linux Kernel. I would pay to hear him talk about the early days of Linux development, but his thoughts on smart phones? What could possibly make me care?

Re:Why

[Xanator]

you dont have to care, he just gave his opinion like you are giving it right now.

Re:Why

[3dr]

Ditto.

ObCarAnalogy: It's like listening to the Woz yammer on about how he doesn't understand how cruise control systems work.

Re:Why

[pinkj]

I hate mobile phones too. I've refused to have one for most of my life. And if a person, be it Linus or anyone else, hates mobile phones as much as I do and likes the Nexus One, I'll listen.

Re:Why

[Draek]

You're not "supposed" to care, it's just that a lot of us do as result of him being a celebrity among geeks. Besides, his viewpoint is more likely to be closer to ours, as a fellow geek, than that of Steve Jobs or any such marketeer that gets published by pop media.

This article certainly raised *my* interest in the Nexus One. Not enough to buy it blindly, but at least give it some consideration along with the N900 I was eyeing before.

Re:Why

[0racle]

For the same reason we're supposed to care what celebrities think about foreign policy and medical procedures.

It's just more evidence of societies celebrity worship.

Re:Why

[Airline_Sickness_Bag]

[i]I am supposed to care about his opinion of smart phones why?[/i]

You care enough to be reading this thread.

I'll sell you my copyrighted/patented hyper turbo method of saving time for only $699/cpu. Cash and credit cards only.

It's a simple but effective technique - Just don't click on threads you don't care about.

Re:Why

[bogie]

I doubt he doesn't understand how cruise control systems work. I'm quite sure he can build one out of paperclips.
He just may not have been aware(read:not read the manual) of how the "adaptive" cruise control works on his Prius since its new and probably way different from any cruise control system he has ever used.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/marty-blog/1042251_is-wozs-prius-acceleration-just-toyotas-wacky-adaptive-cruise

Re:Why

[VGPowerlord]

Besides, his viewpoint is more likely to be closer to ours, as a fellow geek, than that of Steve Jobs or any such marketeer that gets published by pop media.

You realize that we could apply that to the likes of Richard Stallman, too? The guy who uses wget to print out webpages to read rather than "browsing the web."

Re:Why

[timster]

Ah, that article explains a lot. It's nice to know that the problem stems from a horribly bad design, rather than a bad implementation.

Re:Why

[JoshuaZ]

You are correct that in general, there's no good reason to listen to the opinion of a celebrity. However, one might argue that Torvalds is someone who has relevant expertise. Given his background in programming and extensive experience with all sorts of computer systems, it isn't unreasonable for someone to see him as an expert in this case whose opinion is worth listening to. Neil deGrasse Tyson is a celebrity but his opinion on many science issues is still pretty relevant.

Re:Why

[that this is not und]

I don't get your point. You're defending Steve Jobs by saying he's the same as Richard Stallman? Or is there some other twist in your statement that I don't understand. In any case, whatever you're trying to say is pretty surreal.

Now, I admit that Stallman may have actually had a toke or two in his life, but Jobs comes from the coke snorting scene. Two very different social sets. And that's just touching the surface of one aspect of the vast differences between the two.

Using wget to mirror the sites you want to read isn't the kind of thing a 'pop media marketer' does. It's almost completely the opposite. Besides which I suspect Mr. Stallman would make use of the browser within GNU Emacs if he wanted to read web content. And isn't lynx a GPL licensed project?

Re:Why

[nine-times]

Well people are psychologically built to defer to authority figures (not all the time, but often), and our natural notion of "authority figures" are people who are stronger, better looking, and more popular. It's unfortunate.

Re:Why

[LtGordon]

I doubt he doesn't understand how cruise control systems work. I'm quite sure he can build one out of paperclips. He just may not have been aware (read:not read the manual) of how the "adaptive" cruise control works on his Prius since its new and probably way different from any cruise control system he has ever used.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/marty-blog/1042251_is-wozs-prius-acceleration-just-toyotas-wacky-adaptive-cruise

Furthermore, in my opinion, it's still the fault of the car. Just because software acts in the manner that the programmer intended doesn't mean that it does what it should do. This really comes down to an issue of user interface design. A well-designed system made for the typical automotive consumer should assume that the end-user will never look at the manual.

Re:Why

[jollyreaper]

You're not "supposed" to care, it's just that a lot of us do as result of him being a celebrity among geeks. Besides, his viewpoint is more likely to be closer to ours, as a fellow geek, than that of Steve Jobs or any such marketeer that gets published by pop media.

He's exactly the sort of person I would want to hear give an opinion about this stuff. I may not agree with his opinion, time may prove him wrong, but it certainly provides an interesting starting point for a debate. Look at Clifford Stoll and his whole Silicon Snake Oil thing. He raised interesting questions about the internet and viability of e-commerce. I disagreed with his thesis and he has subsequently been proven wrong.

I'll listen to what a Jobs has to say. While I may not agree with all of his ideas, he has certainly had some winners over the years. He's someone who understands the industry. People I'd be less interested in listening to are Balmer and Gates. I don't think they really have a good grasp on the industry at this point and feel that we're living in the time future historians will point to as their decline years. I could be wrong, it's certainly good debate fodder, and time will prove it one way or another.

Re:Why

[smellsofbikes]

I doubt he doesn't understand how cruise control systems work. I'm quite sure he can build one out of paperclips. He just may not have been aware(read:not read the manual) of how the "adaptive" cruise control works on his Prius since its new and probably way different from any cruise control system he has ever used.

http://www.thecarconnection.com/marty-blog/1042251_is-wozs-prius-acceleration-just-toyotas-wacky-adaptive-cruise

But what is described in that article, isn't what Woz is saying happens. He says "Let's say that I'm in some place where the speed 85 mph is legal. I can nudge my cruise control speed lever and my speed barely goes up, say from 80 to 81.I nudge at again and again, up to 83. Then I nudge it again and the car takes off, no speed limit." That's not an adaptive speed controller winding up because someone is unknowingly giving it multiple 'accelerate' inputs. It gets one 'accelerate' signal and accelerates at least 15mph, according to Woz.

Re:Why

[2short]

The fact that the devices are running his code is, oddly, not really a reason to value his opinion of them.

But, a smart geek says that amongst the various gadgets running his code, he likes a particular one best, and briefly describes what he wants in a such a gadget that motivates this preference. I find that his preferences in such a gadget are substantially similar to my own (in contrast to much of the world).

You think "celebrity worship" is the only reason I would be interested? I'd be just as interested if he were any other smart geek with similar smart-phone feature desires to me. I wouldn't know he was a smart geek without the celebrity, but I don't get the 'worship' bit. He says what he wants in a smart phone, it's the same as me, so I listen. He says what he wants in version control software, it's different, so I don't.

Re:Why

[microbee]

You sound like you do care, but are just confused about why.

Re:Why

[Degro]

So Linus is just some celebrity...on Slashdot...?

Re:Why

[vbraga]

Stallman uses something different to browse:

To look at page I
send mail to a demon which runs wget and mails the page back to me.
It is very efficient use of my time, but it is slow in real time.

Source.

Very strange.

Re:Why

[VGPowerlord]

Actually, I was comparing Richard Stallman to Linus Torvalds ("as a fellow geek"), although upon re-reading I can see how I wasn't really clear on that.

Re:Why

[91degrees]

But that comment didn't make the front page of Slashdot, Linus's mobile phone purchase did.

Re:Why

[ArsonSmith]

Funny thing, i was doing that once and when i hit 88 i ended up in 1955. When I wrote Toyota a letter about it they said they had no idea what a Prius was and asked with i had Toyopet Crown, Toyopet Master or Crown Deluxe.

Re:Why

[3dr]

Well, Woz hasn't been precise in describing what he's doing, nor is it videotaped. He could be pressing it quickly, he could be getting frustrated and holding it down, or he could be pressing it so fast the computer just sees it as a single press. The system itself may have thresholds over which is enthusiastic button-tapping has crossed, that enable a different acceleration model in the car's power control unit.

That article is a bit off on one statement. They mention that the accel button increases the target speed by 1 mph. On every car I've driven with cruise control, the accel button bumps it up by about 2mph, and "coast" drops the target by 1mph. They are not symmetric in magnitude.

Further, on every recent car that I can think off with cruise and an *automatic* transmission, when you press the accel button enough times (meaning the difference between target speed and current speed is large), there is a point at which the automatic transmission's kick-down mechanism is triggered (near wide-open throttle), the car downshifts, and suddenly starts accelerating hard. This occurs often when using cruise control on a hilly route -- it will periodically downshift and take off uphill as the cruise control keeps depressing the pedal farther to maintain a target speed uphill.

The point of my original comment that started this whole Woz subthread is that Woz's description of what is happening is very vague. I think it shows that he doesn't understand what is really happening with that cruise control, and granted, it does sound like a different approach that is better left to the FM tuner button or AC temperature. He knows software, but I wouldn't want him to work on my car.

Re:Why

[Cl1mh4224rd]

you dont have to care, he just gave his opinion like you are giving it right now.

Yeah, but people aren't reporting Capt.DrumkenBum's opinion as if it was newsworthy...

Re:Why

[smellsofbikes]

Obviously I don't know either, but what he's claiming is that it's repeatable (and in another comment, he says he's tried it many times) and he's a bright hardware guy. I would hope that under those circumstances, he would have tried to make sure that he's nudging it the same way he nudged it to go from, say, 81 to 82. But, again, I don't know.

I know what you mean about provoking the car to downshift, which gives it much better acceleration, but if a cruise control dramatically overshoots its upper limit just because it has better acceleration, it's a really crappy cruise control. Which isn't to say that the Prius cruise control *isn't* crappy: I don't know. But, cruise controls in automatics, calibrated to handle the automatic shifting, have been around for at least 45 years, and it's hard for me to believe Toyota would screw that up as regards a primarily hardware implementation of the cruise control. That's what leads me to agree with Woz, that the problem is likely a firmware problem.

Re:Why

[cheesybagel]

He does it so he can have a mirror of the page for later reference. The web changes so much, what you read today probably isn't there tomorrow. It is actually a good idea in hindsight.

Re:Why

[bill_mcgonigle]

I am supposed to care about his opinion of smart phones why?

Some people think it's wise to listen to what a mechanic thinks of a new car. Much less the head of engineering at a car company...

Re:Why

[indiechild]

People like Steve Jobs seem to get a lot of disdain from certain geek quarters, but he's far more of a geek than most give him credit for. He's far more than just a marketer and a glitzy showman. The man is incredibly savvy about business and tech, which is why Apple often leads the trends -- despite what the geeks claim. Human computer interaction and UX is an extremely important aspect of computing which readily gets dismissed by a lot of geeks, and this is going to become more evident as we enter the age of computing appliances for everyday people.

The iPhone and iPad are just the beginning, and I'm sure many other companies will step in and fill the space. It's an exciting time to be in computing.

Re:Why

[hazydave]

I've been driving a Prius since 2003, and never found the problem. I did very quickly come to understand that one click up/down of the accelerate/decelerate level knocks you up/down 1 MPH (never tried it with the display in KM/hr... I wonder...). It's anything but a bad design... I think it's simply a case of "RTFM, Woz". Not that I did... the behavior was very obvious. Maybe you need to be retrained from analog to digital cruise control... never had much use for it anyway, personally.

Re:Why

[hazydave]

They are completely correct about the behavior of the Prius cruise control, at least on my "Gen 1" model from 2003. You bump the lever up, you get 1mph faster, bump it down, you get 1mph slower. I like it -- it's the correct way to implement this. I have not messed with holding down long... guess I'll have to try that. But that should be unusual, anyway. The cruise control isn't a replacement for the accelerator pedal. If I'm using it, I go about as fast as I'm targeting, and then trim using the lever if a precise speed is needed (usually, it's just for long trips and known speed-trap areas).

Re:Why

[hazydave]

Downshift? Not a Prius... there's no shifting, ever. Single speed gear box, no transmission. The effective gear ratio is set by the behavior of the small electric motor/generator, MG1. Check out this site, which includes a simple model of the system: http://eahart.com/prius/psd

Re:Why

[bingoUV]

and this is going to become more evident as we enter the age of computing appliances for everyday people.

Exactly. But we are not everyday people, we are geeks. No one is denying Steve Jobs' genius, but his opinion on gadgets does not interest geeks because Jobs caters to non-geeks.

Look at ipod, iphone, ipad. All give less options than other devices of comparable features, less configurable, less tweakable. Details, personal configurations, tweaking things to suit oneself : these are things geeks are interested in. So those devices are not for geeks. Though even geeks may want to play a non-geek in some aspects of life: that is fine. But users of most Apple products cannot be said to be geeks in that aspect of their gadget usage.

Original blog post

[surmak]

here

Re:Original blog post

[Threni]

I wonder if this (and about half the other new Android phones) will ever become available in the UK (and I don't mean buying from abroad over the net, but somewhere with a meaningful test/buy/get fixed situation like, say, a high street shop).

Re:Original blog post

[Little_Professor]

The summary links to a WashingtonPost.com story quoting an Androidcommunity.com story quoting a linux.com story about Linus's original blog post. Why don't they just link directly to the original source?

but...

[leuk_he]

SUpposed you got a mail from bill gates asking for a phone from your company because your phone factory has made a phone running windows mobile on it. What would you do?

==
PS, Google is a member of the linux foundation which is the current employer of linus. So in a way google already paid for the phone.

Re:but...

[simcop2387]

send him a bill, the rich bastard can afford to pay it.

Re:but...

[nacturation]

SUpposed you got a mail from bill gates asking for a phone from your company because your phone factory has made a phone running windows mobile on it. What would you do?

The point is that famous people generally don't ask... they get sent stuff unsolicited a fair bit. At the Oscars, when you hear of someone's $100,000 necklace from Saks Fifth Avenue, do you really think the celebrity went out and spent their own money on that necklace? Hell no... that's Saks renting it (perhaps gifting it for smaller items) and getting free promotion. Saks is hoping all the non-famous rich people who watch the Oscars go out and buy the necklace.

In Linus' case, however, perhaps he's critical enough about phones that it's actually a risk to send him one. If he writes a bad review, the company who manufactures it and sent it to him has just shot itself in the foot.

Re:but...

[elrous0]

Send him a reply asking for a job as his sycophant/prostitute-acquisition-manager?

Re:but...

[simoncpu was here]

If he asked politely and made it clear that he won't be getting something from nothing, I'll just send him a demo phone with a nice accompanying letter that tells him that our company appreciates an OS that would make our applications run optimally if they could provide us with this and that features.

I know this is Slashdot, but how much does a demo phone cost? How much could we benefit from a partnership? Do all commercial partnerships need to have the same principles, or do they just need to mutually agree on things that would benefit them both?

Re:but...

[Airline_Sickness_Bag]

This is about Linus Torvalds, not Tiger Woods.

Re:but...

[SecurityGuy]

In Linus' case, however, perhaps he's critical enough about phones that it's actually a risk to send him one. If he writes a bad review, the company who manufactures it and sent it to him has just shot itself in the foot.

Or perhaps, unlike celebrities the masses drool over, Linus's endorsement, let alone mere use, isn't worth that much. Frankly, I don't care what phone, dental floss, bike, or anything else he uses.

Your point is well taken, though. If you want to give away free samples, giving them to notorious critics of mostly everything is probably not a good idea.

Re:but...

[mike260]

Your point is well taken, though. If you want to give away free samples, giving them to notorious critics of mostly everything is probably not a good idea.

An entertaining case in point.

Re:but...

[nine-times]

More likely, no one thinks he's famous enough to warrant free stuff. People like... I don't know... Beyonce might get a free phone sent to her in the hopes that she'll be seen talking on it, caught by the paparazzi or whatever. How often is Linus being stalked by paparazzi?

Otherwise reviewers might get free stuff to review, but to my knowledge Linus isn't famous for his reviews. In the case of someone like Bill Gates, he probably wouldn't go into Verizon's local store and ask for a free Windows-based phone or something. He'd more likely email some executive he knows at Motorola (or whoever) and ask to have one sent to him. I don't think Torvalds fits into any of these categories.

Re:but...

[morgauxo]

I'd either ignore it or ask what's in it for me. Then again, in hopes of good exposure, or him remembering me when it's time to license the next batch I might just send him one w/o asking questions. (in hopes of something nice happening in return) What's one phone to a factory anyway? But I would hope for something in return, after all, the manufacturer has to pay Microsoft for Windows Mobile licenses. After that they don't owe Microsoft anything.

Now, in the case of a Linux phone, yes, I would just give him one and not expect anything in return. The difference... They don't have to pay to put Linux on their phone! Sure, companies have hired him to get special attention but he started Linux for free and it still is. Why the hell shouldn't they give him a free phone? They should even include a thank you note to him in the box! They benefit from his free work.

Of course, there are many many others who deserve that free phone as well. It wouldn't be practical to send them all but he is the leader, and the one who started the kernel so just send him one. Now, if they used GNU much I'd say send Richard Stallman one too but I get the impression there isn't much GNU in there, just Linux and Java.

Re:but...

[morgauxo]

OK, I missed the PS. Still, he started Linux long before there was a Linux foundation or anyone else paying him. Gates rebranded CP/M to make a quick sale. I'd give him the phone.

Re:but...

[200_success]

On the other hand, whatever computer he uses is more likely to have Linux driver support. That's an endorsement that is actually worth something.

Re:but...

[msevior]

I read that blog post. Very, very funny. Telstra in Australia provide exactly the same useless crap for 3 times as much money as SPRINT did back in 2006. Some things never change.

Re:but...

[91degrees]

I've received a graphics card and three games purely on the basis that I worked on the development teams. This wasn't because I demanded. It's just typically the done thing.

Evidently though, Google didn't think Linux was a part of the development process. Fair enough. It's up to them.

Now, if I made a Windows CE based product and Microsoft wanted some samples I'd be tempted to send them without asking the reason. They might have a good reason and if not it wouldn't cost me that much. However, other companies may see things differently.

... was glad to hear it ...

[ninjagin]

I don't share much in common with Linus except maybe the phone, but I got my N1 exactly because of how evolved android had become, how beefy the hardware specs were (I was building PCs with roughly the same specs 8 years ago), and because I preferred a phone not marketed to me with a direct tie-in with a carrier. Overtly unlocked? Yes, please. Granted, it's not for everyone, but it is my first smartphone and I'm glad I waited.

Re:... was glad to hear it ...

[unix1]

... beefy the hardware specs were ...

I agree for the most part, but in this day and age and the number and variety of available apps and their sizes, you can't restrict application installation space to 190 MB (without apps2sd hacks that have other issues). I don't consider that "beefy" for today's phones. The phone has 512 MB (more than twice that) of RAM for crying out loud!

AFAIK, the only mass produced Android phone that gets to a near reasonable app storage partition size is Samsung Galaxy (1 GB). I easily use 300 MB of it right now.

Re:... was glad to hear it ...

[eudaemon]

Yes, agreed. 512MB is hardly anything. Which is why most phone hacks store apps on the microsd card instead.
Google didn't offer that functionality in their baseline kernel because (supposedly) there were concerns
about sd speed (you need to buy class 6 to match onboard memory speeds) and of course removing or losing
the card to failure means loss of your apps and functionality. I expect eventually apps to sd will be
stock on the android distro. 512 MB is too little, but with an 8gb micro sd card and apps2sd there was
enough room to spin around like julie andrews while singing the hills are alive with the sound of music.

Re:... was glad to hear it ...

[unix1]

Yes, agreed. 512MB is hardly anything.

As far as I understand, out of 512 MB internal flash drive only 190 MB is available for apps. 190 MB is nothing for a phone of this stature and does not measure up to the rest of the specs.

Google didn't offer that functionality in their baseline kernel because (supposedly) there were concerns
about sd speed (you need to buy class 6 to match onboard memory speeds) and of course removing or losing
the card to failure means loss of your apps and functionality.

It's because they don't have a proper security model implemented for apps storage. They currently still use user permissions to prevent copying protected files. In the current state of affairs if Google were to allow apps on SD card, anyone could make a copy of an apk file from one SD card onto another.

512 MB is too little, but with an 8gb micro sd card and apps2sd there was
enough room to spin around like julie andrews while singing the hills are alive with the sound of music.

That's right. With the more/faster RAM and better processors apps are also increasing in size - they do more, have more graphics and more content. Good games right now are 20-30MB each. 190 MB storage is like a slap in the face!

Re:... was glad to hear it ...

[fredrik70]

apps can store resources like images and data on the sd card, it's only the executable code that needs to be on the internal flash, so it's not as bad as it looks (although I which google would sort it out)

Re:... was glad to hear it ...

[unix1]

190MB for app code.

... and application caches, and databases, and anything else that developer decides to store in the phone memory for you.

Since folks seem unable to stop FUDing

You mean they have run out of excuses. "Folks" cannot FUD if they are seeing low storage error/warning messages on their phones.

Onboard storage has been a non-issue for me

Speak for yourself then, AC. I am using 300 MB of the app storage partition right now. I'd like to think if I upgrade my phone I can install more apps, and not have to delete half of them.

Re:... was glad to hear it ...

[unix1]

I guess it depends on your use - if you are happy with 15-20 apps you won't have issues. If you have 70-80+ apps you are probably approaching the limit.

You also have to consider that any data stored on SD card is potentially insecure as a rogue app with SD card and "full internet" access rights (pretty standard these days) can read and transfer any file from SD card.

I don't like the idea of insecure storage on the SD card, so storing app data on FAT32 filesystem would not be a good security practice. I like the idea of either supporting a better filesystem on it, or having a bigger flash drive on the device.

Re:... was glad to hear it ...

[fredrik70]

indeed, have hit the app limit myself a few times on my G1, quite annoying.

Torvalds' criteria for judgment

[Staniel]

Apparently he judges phones by different standards than I do. It sounds like he wanted a traveling internet connection with a good interface. I personally prefer my tiny little Zoolander phone which plays music, calls people good and has a mediocre interface for checking email.

Re:Torvalds' criteria for judgment

[pnewhook]

All I care about is a phone that has good audio quality so I can understand them and they me, and is small.

It's a PHONE people!!!

Re:Torvalds' criteria for judgment

[amorsen]

Phones aren't that important. Travelling internet connections on the other hand are incredibly useful. Less than 1/10th of the time I use my iPhone has a call active, quite possibly less than 1/50th. So who cares how bad it is as a phone? It's good enough that it isn't worth carrying another device for those 5 minutes of talk time a day -- and texting is actually better on a good smartphone than on a non-smartphone.

In fact I had my iPhone for months before unlocks appeared, so I didn't have a SIM in it.

Re:Torvalds' criteria for judgment

[2short]

"Apparently he judges phones by different standards than I do."

Clearly, he judges portable communications devices by different standard than you do; which is fine.

His criteria sound a lot like mine. If I were to list what I want in such a device, item 9 or 10 might be "Well, if I'm going to carry it around all the time, I guess it better be a phone". But that's after web browser, camera, gps, game console, and bike computer.

Re:Torvalds' criteria for judgment

[2short]

"All I care about is a phone that has good audio quality so I can understand them and they me, and is small."

You probably shouldn't follow Linus' recommendation then.

"It's a PHONE people!!!"

Precisely. Which isn't what Linus wants.

Re:Torvalds' criteria for judgment

[Kevin Stevens]

I don't mean this as an insult, but in my opinion is that you are a bit behind the times.

Do you own a current generation smartphone? When I say current generation, I am speaking of an Android phone, the Nokia N900, Iphone 3G+, or something in that class, not something from the treo age. The fact that my 3GS is a phone is almost an afterthought to me now, just one more app in with the pile of others. What I do have is a little scooter that gets me on the "information superhighway" and is good for most general day to day internet purposes. But then there is more- location based services are one of those game changing "how did I ever live without this" things that my computer can't do but my phone can. I play games on my phone more than I actually umm... use the phone. In fact, out of my top 10 most used functions- email, getting news/weather, getting directions, finding stuff nearby (like say a bookstore or pizza place in an unfamiliar neighborhood), playing games, taking/looking at photographs, making/receiving calls, texting, listening to music, and surfing the web... making calls is probably #7 or 8 on that list.

I hear this from lots of people with the latest smartphones. In 2 years, I wouldn't be surprised if most people start thinking about their phones as mobile computers with the ability to make calls. I more or less do, and these things are becoming more capable every day.

Re:Torvalds' criteria for judgment

[pnewhook]

Do you own a current generation smartphone?

No, I have a Motokrzr K1. Smallest phone I could find with the features I need.

little scooter that gets me on the "information superhighway" and is good for most general day to day internet purposes

I have a computer for that. If I'm outside, I'm enjoying outside. The last thing I want is to be looking at another computer.

I play games on my phone more than I actually umm... use the phone.

I have a PS3 for that.

I wouldn't be surprised if most people start thinking about their phones as mobile computers with the ability to make calls.

When phones get to the point where they have the power of my laptop, sure. Until then it is just a toy. VERY occasionally it would be nice to have a GPS on my phone, and Google maps, but I could count those times on one hand over the past several years. I just dont want to lug around something three times the size / weight of my phone for features I never use. If I go out with the intent of doing work, then I'll bring my laptop. A phone is just too awkward of a medium to do any real work on.

Re:Torvalds' criteria for judgment

[pnewhook]

So this may be a stupid question, but without a SIM what did you use your iPhone for?

Re:Torvalds' criteria for judgment

[amorsen]

The same things I would have used an iPod Touch for, plus GPS.

I know I'm old fashioned, but...

[Carik]

... most of my phones haven't had an OS that you could play Galaga or Solitaire on. Or really do much more than make a phone call.

Is it possible that the reason he hates phones is that he keeps buying computers masquerading as phones, rather than phones?

Also... he comments that he's always hated phones because they interrupt while he's trying to work or read. I don't know about anyone else, but if I don't want to be interrupted, I turn off the phone. The ringer, if it's a land-line, or the whole thing, if it's a cell. People can leave me a message and I'll listen to it later.

Basically, I can understand not liking the sound quality, or the microphone quality, or the weight, or the fact that it doesn't work anywhere you want to use it (all problems I've had in the past), but really... the things he's complaining about are issues with how he's using it, not with the phones. Maybe, like me, he's someone who just shouldn't have a cell phone, or should buy a small cheap one for emergency use, and not pay a monthly fee for it.

Re:I know I'm old fashioned, but...

[thetoadwarrior]

Sony phones, like the K750 can play games like Galaga and it's certainly not a smart phone. Hell you can probably get landline phones that play Galaga now.

Re:I know I'm old fashioned, but...

[sznupi]

Well, K750 is 5 years old already. The platform was refreshed in the meantime; now it has even multitasking for installed application, a good browser...I'm not really sure why it's not considered a "smartphone" one.

Re:I know I'm old fashioned, but...

[stewbacca]

I heard a story on NPR about the poor voice quality on cell phones. I thought it was a bandwidth issue, when in reality it's a simply a "good enough, so why spend more money on it" issue.

Re:I know I'm old fashioned, but...

[Carik]

Anyone who works in a technical or managerial capacity for a very large corporation will find themselves quite fired for that

Ain't my fault that people sign contracts they shouldn't. I've worked in IT for a couple of reasonably large companies, in one case as the sole IT support, and am now working for a university. One of the first questions I'm asked is always "would you be willing to be on call 24 hours a day," and my answer is always "No. I'll work my butt off for you during the day, and if there's an emergency and I'm reachable I'll come help, but I'm not going to put my life on hold while I work here." Some companies weren't willing to hire me, some respected the fact that I was going to state up front what I was and wasn't willing to do. Sounds to me like you don't hate your cell-phone, you hate your job, or at least the contract you signed.

Re:I know I'm old fashioned, but...

[Carik]

Yeah... I don't mind the quality on my most recent phone (some cheapo samsung flip phone), and my first phone (an old Nokia brick) was better than my landline. The phone I had in between was terrible, though... random echoes, sound dropping in and out, intermittent static for no reason... I only put up with it because I didn't really use the phone very often.

Re:I know I'm old fashioned, but...

[Carik]

Most people in the modern world need a cellphone. It's stupid to not own one these days, landlines are becoming obsolete for younger people.

No, most people in the modern world find a cellphone to be a convenience, and have lost the ability to distinguish between a need and a want. This is particularly predominant among techies of various types (IT people, engineers, programmers, and so on). There are a quite a few places -- like where I live -- that cellphones just don't work. 10 feet out the back of the house and they work fine, but not at all inside the house. They also don't work in the building I work in. So really... how valuable is a cellphone to me?

your dream of a non invasive cellphone/connected world will not exist, go back to the 90's. AND TURN YOUR DAMN PHONE ON!

Why? I have no objection to other people having cellphones, I just don't choose to put myself in a position where people can get in touch with me at any hour for any reason. I do own a cellphone, and it does tend to travel with me (, so if people really need to reach me, they can leave me a message. Sure I've missed opportunities because of it, but I count it a fair trade.

You -- and everyone else -- are welcome to do as you will with your phones. If you want to leave yourself on-call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, fine. If you want a phone that's more of a palmtop computer than a phone, go for it. If you want a phone that you can use for playing games, thats actually kind of neat. But don't tell me I'm stupid for not feeling the need for one. Don't tell me landlines are obsolete. Neither one is true.

And when everyone I know who has a smartphone complains on a regular basis that it's crashed, and they can't make calls, I'm not convinced that their phones are better than mine.

Re:I know I'm old fashioned, but...

[Carik]

Well, yes. There is that, and I shouldn't stand in his way.

Re:I know I'm old fashioned, but...

[Lord Ender]

No. You are 100% wrong. The reason he hates phones is because he doesn't like being interrupted with phone calls.

The only reason he likes the phone is because it is a computer masquerading as a phone.

Read his own comments if you don't believe me.

Re:I know I'm old fashioned, but...

[Carik]

I did read his comments. And in my original post, that you're responding to, I said "...the things he's complaining about are issues with how he's using it, not with the phones." If your phone is just a phone, turning it off isn't a big deal. If your phone is also your computer, it's hard to turn it off and still get work done as a programmer.

He doesn't hate cell phones, or any kind of phones. He hates his unwillingness to just shut them off and stop worrying about them. He just doesn't realize that that's what he hates.

Re:I know I'm old fashioned, but...

[quantumphaze]

... most of my phones haven't had an OS that you could play Galaga or Solitaire on.

I have an old Ericsson T28 in a drawer that can play solitaire on it's 5 or so pixel rows.

Damn it was a good phone, did it's job well. But the mic got wet (still works but too quiet) and I doubt the battery works any more.

arcade games

[bsDaemon]

I think most computers in general have been relegated to playing solitaire and Galaga, not just mobile phone platforms.

Mislabelled

[grub]

This phone shall be referred to as the "GNU/Nexus One with GNU/Linux".
Now excuse me, I have to comb my beard.

Richard

.

Re:Mislabelled

[chill]

Now excuse me, I have to comb my beard.

You had me going until that part. Something like this would be more apt:

He stood up straight and looked the world squarely in the fields and hills. To add weight to his words he stuck the gnu/rabbit bone in his beard. He spread his arms out wide. "I will go mad!" he
announced.

Re:Mislabelled

[jareth-0205]

I call fake!

RMS has never combed his beard.

Re:Mislabelled

[The Mighty Buzzard]

That's GNECK/Beard, you insensitive clod!

Re:Mislabelled

[tuppe666]

To be fair I have for a long time come to the conclusion that Linux is the wrong description for anything other than what it is the kernel. I like GNU/Linux of Kernel+Tools but in the world of ChomeOS and Android and Meano 5 and Linmo. Its not than I'm excited by GNU. I'd rather call my Operating X because it sounds cool...Or Gnome/Firefox as that's where I spend most of my time.

Re:Mislabelled

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, Stallman would find Linux on nexus one to be a fairly reasonable description, since it contains no GNU code.

This is because unlike on the average GNU/Linux system where there is more GNU code than code from any other single project, so the name GNU would be applicable, except that would be misleading, since it would not really be using the GNU operating system, since that would use Hurd. So GNU/Linux is the next best name.

For Android, more code on the system comes from the Android project than from any other system. Further unlike GNU android by default uses the Linux kernel[1], so saying Android/Linux is just a bit redundant.

[1] At the moment AFAIK no other kernel is possible, but porting Android to say a BSD based kernel is still quite possible.

Re:Mislabelled

[macshit]

I call fake!

RMS has never combed his beard.

Actually one of RMS's most obvious behavioral tics is a habit of combing his beard with his fingers. It may not actually make much difference, but he spends an awful lot of time doing it...

So that's who that is!

[noidentity]

Linus Torvalds, the inventor of the Linux kernel, has an absolute disdain for mobile phones.

Finally, an article summary that explainings who some obscure person is, rather than assuming we know everyone in the tech universe.

Re:So that's who that is!

[martas]

please tell me you really are joking.

otherwise, leave this place and never come back.

Re:So that's who that is!

[jamesyouwish]

Is it Linux or Lynux?

Re:So that's who that is!

[Sulphur]

absolute disdain

Actually unsigned long disdain.

Re:So that's who that is!

[dzfoo]

It's Linus. He's the one with the safety blanket. I always thought Snoopy was a beagle, but it turns out it was a penguin.

      -dZ.

Re:So that's who that is!

[Culture20]

please tell me you really are joking.

otherwise, leave this place and never come back.

Your bugzilla ticket has been received and processed. Please do not respond to this automatic email. Thank you for helping FOSS with your commentary.

There, fixed that for you.

Re:So that's who that is!

[noidentity]

please tell me you really are joking.

I guess that means I dead-panned it properly.

Re:So that's who that is!

[JerryLove]

Linus Torvalds, the inventor of the Linux kernel, has an absolute disdain for mobile phones.

Finally, an article summary that explainings who some obscure person is, rather than assuming we know everyone in the tech universe.

Yea, but what is Linux? :P

Re:So that's who that is!

[Terrasque]

It just means that some people will believe everything they read on the internet ;)

Re:So that's who that is!

[Joe Tie.]

Going by the description, I think it's some new kind of popcorn.

A balance between geekness and ease of use

[buruonbrails]

I expected Linus Torvalds to use something more geeky, e.g. N900 or one of OpenMoko devices, but in this case he has chosen user-friendliness instead of endless tinkering. Nexus One is probably one of the most user-friendly Linux-based devices to date (competing with WebOS devices in this respect), and it is very functional as well, so the choice seems obvious.

Re:A balance between geekness and ease of use

[shutdown -p now]

I expected Linus Torvalds to use something more geeky, e.g. N900 or one of OpenMoko devices, but in this case he has chosen user-friendliness instead of endless tinkering.

"In this case"? Linus had historically ruined geeks' expectations like that. I recall how many were dismayed that he was using SUSE and Fedora, and spending most time in KDE, rather than some "proper" distro like Slackware or Gentoo or at least Debian, and some obscure tiling WM.

stupid Linus

[martas]

he could've made serious $$ if he charged google for expressing this opinion. imagine all the linux devotees who are going to buy it now. i mean, there's gotta be, like, at least 10 who can afford it!

Re:stupid Linus

[BitZtream]

Except as soon as anyone finds out that he accepted money for expressing his opinion, people will value his opinion a whole hell of a lot less.

Re:stupid Linus

[wjhoffman1983]

Who said he didn't?

Re:stupid Linus

[Skuld-Chan]

You ever stop and think that a person who developed the core of an OS and gave it away isn't in it for the money?

I think if more people behaved like Linus this would be a more pleasant world to live in.

Re:stupid Linus

[martas]

wait, linux is free? and here I've been paying some russian guy called Dmitry Ivanov $500 a year to use it...

Growing respect to Linus

[VincenzoRomano]

As Galaga and the solitaire are the only games woth playing, along with rougue-lke.

There is a lesson to learn there

[Weaselmancer]

...he has chosen user-friendliness instead of endless tinkering

The lesson is: Even people famous for endless tinkering still like a simple, clean user experience once in a while.

Design your software with this in mind.

Re:There is a lesson to learn there

[Angst Badger]

Even people famous for endless tinkering still like a simple, clean user experience once in a while.

Once in a while? I find that I want to tinker with the subjects in which I am most interested, and prefer drool-proof interfaces the rest of the time. FOSS at its (unusual) best makes tinkering possible but not necessary. Programs should work well off the shelf but be readily amenable to user modification if the user cares to.

Re:There is a lesson to learn there

[BESTouff]

Or maybe the lesse is:

Linus has become too old to spend time tinkering with new hardware.

Re:There is a lesson to learn there

[The Mighty Buzzard]

I'd say it's more along the lines of:
Linus already has all the tinkering he could ever want right in front of him; adding a phone to the mix would just be redundant.

Re:There is a lesson to learn there

[Skuld-Chan]

Speaking from my own experience - I've found that if you are in the kind of business where you spend all day tinkering with stuff you have a tendency to shy away from devices or software that require tinkering at all.

One of the reasons I don't personally beta test software ;) (because it was at one point pretty much my job).

Re:There is a lesson to learn there

[nine-times]

Even people famous for endless tinkering still like a simple, clean user experience once in a while...

... especially if it's something like a phone.

Honestly, I'm not a super-geeky tech genius, but I like to screw around with computers and that has lead to a career in IT. However, I learned a long time ago that I like to keep a separation between "the gadgets that I tinker with" and "the gadgets I depend on." The two can't really be the same, because if I'm screwing around with something long enough, I *will* break it. I'll probably also fix it, but it might take hours or days.

I wan't my phone to work all the time, and therefore I don't want a phone that I need to tinker with.

Ahh, I think I've spotted his problem

[petes_PoV]

mostly used for playing Galaga and Solitaire on long flights

He's confused a mobile phone for a games console. A surprising mistake really, considering how well-versed he is on most other technical fields. Personally, all I want from a phone is a few buttons that let me call people and a very, very long battery life. If I ever felt the need to play video games I'd use something that has a screen large enough that I didn't get annoyed at it - with Linus seems to, from his response.

Other age.

[leuk_he]

Linus is 40, In ohter words, in the first 20 year of his life mobile phones only lived as very bulky carphones, and for a long time after that the calling cost were quite pricy. Only the last 10 year or so mobiles phones became main-stream. Some people still live with the believe you have to be reachable all the time. This may be hard to grasp for generation now that grew up with mobile phones.

Re:Other age.

[sznupi]

I don't really see it, even in the case of US which has relatively low cellphone penetration of 90%.

(relatively low compared to most of European countries, where more than 100% is the norm; with Finland at 130%)

Re:Other age.

[ColdWetDog]

(relatively low compared to most of European countries, where more than 100% is the norm; with Finland at 130%)

Do people really have more than one cell phone? Or does 'penetration' mean something different in this context?

If it indeed is so, don't bother to explain it. I will just sit quietly and bask in my ignorance.

Re:Other age.

[sznupi]

It means "active cellphone numbers", links to sources covering most of the world here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_penetration_rate

Having a private number and a job issued one isn't that unheard of. Or the second for safer communication with lover/etc....

Re:Other age.

[pnewhook]

I think he meant even dead people have cellphones. Just like all those dead people voted for Bush.

Re:Other age.

[icebraining]

Yeah, here in Portugal we have almost 140%. Many people have phones from different networks, to save on calls and sms.

Re:Other age.

[thammoud]

No wonder the country is going broke.

Re:Other age.

[spyfrog]

Yep, we have. I know several that like me have two mobile phones - one work phone and one personal phone.

Re:Other age.

[sznupi]

Or it's finding a use for previous main mobile phone instead of giving it to children as a toy to destroy or throwing it away after few years of battery decay in the drawer.

Re:Other age.

[dbIII]

Good point, the Republicans have machines for that instead of the time consuming alternative :)
I am not from the USA so just take this as the dig at Diebold it is and not mindless political tribalism.

Re:Other age.

[hazydave]

I'm every-so-slightly older, and never had much use for just a phone. Other people want to call me; I'm not going to make that many phone calls.

A networked pocket computer, on the other hand, makes a tone of sense... I may not have grown up on cell phones, but I started learning to code when I was 12 (not that easy in 1973... fortunately, my Dad let me use his department's Cyber72 over the weekend, dial in to Bell Labs in Holmdel). A year later, I was hacking around on UNIX, System III I think it was.

Even for slightly older folks here, I doubt this all that unique... there's far more value in "pocket computer" than "pocket phone". I tried to love the Palms, years back. They were passable PDAs and pretty awful phones, but very bad doing the web thing. Android seems to have fixed all of these things... it's hard to imagine not having a DROID in my pocket these days, even if I sometimes only use the phone for 10 minutes a month.

Plagerism?

[gravis777]

Wow, Slashdot Plagerising a Washington Post article that is plagerising an article on Android Community. Practically word for word identical. Not sure if linking to the article is the same as providing citation. :-p

Re:Plagerism?

[martas]

my plager is ringing.

Re:BREAKING NEWS

[oodaloop]

Yeah, I can't imagine why the inventor of Linux didn't buy Apple's product just for multi-touch. Very insightful, Overunderated.

Only a couple of days

[Bill_the_Engineer]

Things have changed now, he adds, now that he has caved and bought Google's Nexus One a couple of days ago."

It's only been a couple of days, let's see if he likes it after he had a chance to really use it. I speak from experience. I'm still have my android phone, but the only thing keeping me on the platform is T-Mobile.

Besides, why should we really care?

Re:Only a couple of days

[Locke2005]

I still like my Android G1 (mostly for the hardware keyboard), but if the iPhone was available for T-Mobile, I would probably replace it. (Are you listening, Apple?) In theory, iPhone and Android have the same capabilities. In practice, not having multi-touch on the Android is a serious deficiency, and the software keyboard on the iPhone does a much better job of figuring out which key I meant to press than the Android software keyboard. Also, the G1 is slow to respond to touch input; hopefully this problem is fixed in the Nexus One with it's faster CPU and Android 2.0 software. On the flip side, not making the iPhone OS truly multitasking is inexcusable, and I keep expecting Apple to reverse this Custer decision. Currently neither phone is perfect; Google should license multi-touch, and Apple should support running multiple apps simultaneously.

Re:Only a couple of days

[bnenning]

The Android API has always supported multitouch, and the recent update for the Nexus One adds multitouch for the browser and maps and images. Presumably there was a legal situation with Apple that's now been resolved.

Re:Only a couple of days

[Bill_the_Engineer]

Well it's a love/hate relationship with my myTouch 3G. It crashes with a "Green Screen of Death" when I use the camera functions, but I usually don't use the sub-par camera anyway.

The irritation comes from the multitasking. Pressing the home button to switch apps took some getting use to, but my pet peeve is that some applications will stop doing notifications because it gets pushed off by the OS to make room for another app. The weather bug app works but doesn't update its location until I run the app in the foreground. Twitroid works without issues. But the IMAP email program that came with the OS will stop notifying, until I bring it back to the foreground.

I believe my problems would be temporary minor inconveniences if all the handsets were updated to the current version of android in a timely manner.

Re:Only a couple of days

[codepunk]

The iphone is multi-tasking for those built in apps that are allowed to. Even as a developer I am perfectly fine with this
as I know it keeps craplications from installing service listeners, ram chewers and other junk to my device. In use and in development
I have never seen the need for it on a phone device. All applications are required to save and have the ability to resume
when restarted so I really don't see the big deal about it. As a end user it just plain works and keeps the devices fairly junk
free which keeps the end users happy.

Re:Only a couple of days

[Locke2005]

In theory, an app should only get "pushed off by the OS to make room for another app." if there is not enough memory to run the new app. Phones don't have virtual memory or swap partitions -- what would you like it to do when it runs out of memory? Swap to flash? At least on mine the music keeps playing when you switch to another app.

I agree with you on the "sub-par" camera; mine doesn't crash, but like most cheap CCDs it is useless for capturing anything that is moving (like a hyperactive 9-year old). I also agree that all Android devices should be updated to Android 2.0, instead of reserving that for the Nexus One.

Re:Only a couple of days

[Locke2005]

Sounds like they are doing cooperative multitasking instead of time-slicing, and they don't trust apps by 3rd party developers to cooperate. I agree that most apps probably shouldn't be allowed to persist after they lose focus, but I have to think that would be a useful or necessary feature for some apps -- how about giving the developers and customers a choice?

Re:Only a couple of days

[amorsen]

No multitasking means no useful SIP applications, except for those which tie in to a specific provider who can provide push service. That might get me to switch to the Nexus One.

Re:Only a couple of days

[NiteShaed]

I have never seen the need for it on a phone device.

Yeah, I'm probably just being completely unreasonable, wanting to listen to my XM radio app, while reading an ebook, using the FaceBook app, or browsing websites with my Touch. I should thank Apple for helping me learn the discipline to pick one time-waster at a time and stick with it. Unfortunately my Pre is reinforcing those bad habits with its needless multitasking.....damn you Palm!

Re:Only a couple of days

[binary paladin]

The G1 has THE BEST hardware keyboard on a phone I have used. I love it. 5 rows... COUNT THEM! FIVE!

The only way I would ever even consider switching to a phone without a hardware keyboard would be actual bluetooth support. What the hell is wrong with the iPhone and Android that they don't support external keyboards? Seriously.

Re:Only a couple of days

[bill_mcgonigle]

Down is up, war is peace, single-tasking is the new hotness.

On January 9th, Apple will introduce iPhone, and you'll see why 2007 will be like 1984.

Re:Only a couple of days

[Bill_the_Engineer]

Phones don't have virtual memory or swap partitions -- what would you like it to do when it runs out of memory? Swap to flash? At least on mine the music keeps playing when you switch to another app.

It's not that I dislike it swapping out apps to make room for new apps - It's when it swaps out the notification for the provided email app that drives me batty. It would be nice, when more space is needed to run a new app, if it could warn me that an app that is using the notification bar is about to be "suspended" and allow me to either pick a different app to "suspend" or to not run the new program. Even better if I could tag apps that shouldn't be suspended and have the OS warn me that I couldn't run another app unless I "unload" an app.

Interestingly, I don't have these issues with Google branded services on the phone.

no

[circletimessquare]

you don't care about what celebrities think about foreign policy and medical procedures, because those are serious subject matters and the opinion holders are fluff

but you do care* what linus torvalds thinks of his mobile phone, because both the celebrity and the subject matter are fluff

*when i say "you do care" i am not saying you care in the same way you care about war with iran or flu shots causing autism, you care in the same way you care about whether batman could beat superman, or exactly how much jar jar binks sucks: light hearted fluffy subject matter you are emotionally invested in out of sheer shallowness on your own part. which is perfectly ok, since this is just a slashdot thread, and no one is deadly serious all the time

Re:BREAKING NEWS

[Overunderrated]

Right, So the man refuses to try any mobile device that isn't running Linux, and yet his opinion is considered relevant enough to warrant an article?

Maybe if the article was titled "Nexus One First *Linux* Phone Linus Torvalds "Doesn't Hate"" it'd be excusable.

Re:BREAKING NEWS

[oodaloop]

I didn't say the article was relevant. I just think your advice that he buy an iPhone is stupid. That's all.

IDK what phones you've used, but I've had

[DRAGONWEEZEL]

a new phone every year for the last 10 years. Even one of my first phones, some Nokia from 2000, could play snake and solitaire.

Re:IDK what phones you've used, but I've had

[Carik]

My earlier phones had snake, though my current phone doesn't seem to have any (it's a Samsung of some sort on a pay-as-you-go plan. It cost me about $40 new, and I pay $100 a year for all the service I need or want). I don't think any of them had solitaire, though I could be wrong.

Really, though, my point was that he's not complaining that he doesn't like the phone: he's complaining that his phone isn't an adequate computer. Which, in my opinion, is really pretty silly.

Re:IDK what phones you've used, but I've had

[DRAGONWEEZEL]

And with that, I agree. The phone, for me is a phone. It will still be a few years before it can be an adequate computer, because it's a phone 1st.

Rest assured, that time will come in our very near future if nexus one is any indication. I've always wanted a phone that can run Logmein.com over wifi. This way I can have my home computer doing things that would be otherwise too slow, or complicated on a phone when I am at work, or away from home. That would bypass the need for me to carry my laptop when I travel.

There are all kinds of things I'd have it do and be able to accomplish. But alas, it won't be so for a while. Though I hear it works on droid.

Anyone use logmein.com on a Droid?

P.S. I use it because it's super easy, works great, and their sales rep told me NOT to buy a license (I never need it for more than 1-4 pcs and it's got a 5 pc lic for free edition)

Same thing happened to me this weekend

[Sloppy]

My little brother just got a Nokia N900 and brought it over to show off. My impression: this just might be the first phone I've ever seen which doesn't suck. apt-get install whateverthefuckyouwant totally embarrasses everybody's "app store" and on top of that it's a fully working product.

Is Nexus One getting there too? Cool. I knew shitty phones' days were numbered, but had no idea just what that number was. Looks like we've finally gotten to 0 and I can start taking the phone market seriously.

Re:Same thing happened to me this weekend

[C_Kode]

The N900 was the phone I was hell bent on getting before purchasing the Nexus One. The whole reason I changed my mind was all the in-depth reviews of it and the stories about how there are so many things that should be standard in it that are all marked as something like "Community Fix" meaning, let the developer community fix it rather than Nokia fixing it.

That just seems like a bad way to view one of your high end products. I liked that the Nexus One had a larger screen and was much thinner than the N900. Of course, tight integration with all of Google's services makes just that much better.

Re:Same thing happened to me this weekend

[MobyTurbo]

I have a Debian chroot on my Palm Pre, so I too can do apt-get, (or use the optware packages if the chroot isn't needed) though since the phone apps are based on Javascript usually rather than C, most of the time they have to be command-line or framebuffer, though lately it's become possible to port SDL apps to it! (Linux games often run with only slight modification now.)

I noticed some brave soul has also ported X11, though I don't know if that will ever become the main way to run a GUI driven app on it.

Inventor of the linux kernel?

[SmallFurryCreature]

What the hell did Linus invent? He is not an inventor, he is a builder! Big and important difference, it is the difference between scientists and engineers, between architects and builders.

And you need BOTH but not to confuse the two or you are going to drive over a bridge made by someone who believes in testing rather then knowing.

What next, Newton inventing gravity?

Re:Inventor of the linux kernel?

[blair1q]

Newton did invent gravity. Or rather, what is now known as the Classical Model of Gravity.

You think inventors do anything other than discover things that were there anyway?

Like the interaction of high-velocity electrons with metallic masses (X-rays) or that a long thing coupled to a short thing placed on a stable thing can move big things with small input forces (the lever) or that you can change a piece of information to give special privileged access status to a person who doesn't normally have that level of privilege (the setuid bit)?

I'll agree Linus didn't invent the Unix structural and behavioral requirements that he tried to follow when he invented Linux, but he did invent a new way to solve the problem of following them, and named it after himself, unlike Newton, who apparently never took Marketing Sarcasm 101 and had to wait a few hundred years for some sycophants standing on his shoulders to back-port the SI (metric) unit of force to him.

Re:Inventor of the linux kernel?

[amorsen]

Linus invented zerocopy splice() and tee(). You probably haven't heard of them, but that doesn't stop them from being inventive.

I would also call git inventive, even if many of the concepts appear in Mercurial as well.

Re:Inventor of the linux kernel?

[2short]

So,
- there are architects and builders.
- you need both
- you must not confuse them

Who would you say is the 'architect' of the linux kernel, that drew up the plans for what Linus built?

What next, silly conflation of civil engineering with software in support of outraged but pointless semantic arguments?

Re:Inventor of the linux kernel?

[DMiax]

So it should be "the man who discovered the linux kernel"? And how does Apple fit into the story?

John Carmack Before

[stewbacca]

This reminds me of when Carmack got all excited about gaming on a Mac...that turned out so well for Apple's gaming options (boot into Windows, play game developed for Windows).

n900?

[awwaiid]

Someone should tell him about the n900 w/ Maemo5. Now THERE'S a good OS. Not quite as good as pure debian... but much better than Android. Unless of course Linus WANTS to port gitk (or any other GUI tool) to the Android GUI library instead of well... just _running_ it.

Re:n900?

[cenc]

I think it would be a smart move for Nokia to send him a free N900 and ask him to compare the two. We can finally settle (or properly start) the war over which is the geeker vs. user friendly linux based phone.

For me, no keyboard no deal.

Re:n900?

[fredrik70]

from his blog

everybody: my dad got himself a N900, so there's one in the family. Don't worry about it, there's room for more than one Linux phone.

I like the Nexus One, maybe I'd like the N900 too. But I certainly don't like cellphones enough to have two.

Re:that's why I like the Internet Tablet idea

[sznupi]

Too bad its hampered by certain manufacturers...I would be glad if I could pair iTouch to a typical Nokia "dumbphone" which includes Bluetooth & "modem" funcionality; but I don't see Apple allowing that.

At least one can always turn Symbian smartphone into WiFi hotspot. Even one bonus then: works with DS.

Re:that's why I like the Internet Tablet idea

[amorsen]

The iPhone and the iPod Touch are the same size and (almost?) the same weight... The only reason to go for the Touch is money, and if that means buying a separate world phone with GPS, the iPhone soon looks like a good buy.

If you want to have a smaller phone for when you don't want a smart phone, just get two phones.

Ahh, I think I've spotted your problem

[2short]

"all I want from a phone is a few buttons that let me call people and a very, very long battery life."

You've confused your desires for his. A completely predictable mistake, really.

No

[marcosdumay]

No

Re:that's why I like the Internet Tablet idea

[sznupi]

Well, if you really want GPS...Nokia 5230, currently the cheapest Nokia worldphone with free worldwide GPS (voice nav, no data connection required - maps (free updates) can be stored on memory card) costs a little over $200 without contract. Though it doesn't have WiFi...5800 or E52 are probably the cheapest in this case (also with free navigation), and they can act as a hotspot.

If you're fine with something simpler there's 2710 Nav Edition for 170$, and there will be soon 5233 for the same price (supposedly without 3G...). They (and 5230) are able to provide data access...through Bluetooth, locked out by Apple.

iPhone is very unatractive, price-wise, in places where mobile planes are a little more sensible.

Besides, I would need to carry a separate, proper mobile phone anyway due to its battery life. With iTouch there's no worries about battery - if it suddenly dies...nothing really happens. Tethering would be nice for very occasional moments I want Internet access and there's no WiFi around.

Same thing here

[C_Kode]

I was highly interested in the Nexus One, but wasn't sure. With the recent updates Google just made, I took the plunge too.

If you've got the cash, do the non-subsidized one. You can get a rate plan that is about $20 a month cheaper from T-Mobile. After two years, thats a $480 savings. That cuts the $529 you paid down to $49 over two years. Thats $130 less ($179) than if you signup as a new T-Mobile customer or $230 less ($279) if you're already a customer. (I'm already a customer)

Re:We knew...

[maxwell demon]

National Search Agency?

haha Nokia n900 fanbois

[kregg]

Linus hates you and your evil phone (im joking)

The problem isn't with phones

[Mr_Silver]

All of the ones he has purchased in the past, the man writes on his personal blog, ended up being 'mostly used for playing Galaga and Solitaire on long flights' even though they were naturally all phones run on open source operating systems.

(emphasis mine)

The problem here isn't the state of mobile phones in general. In short, Linus has limited himself (rightly or wrongly) to phones running open source operating systems and, surprise, until Android they've all sucked.

This isn't really news to anyone who works in the mobile industry and I didn't quite expect it to be news on Slashdot either.

I third that.

[Kludge]

When I got my N900 it was several days before I bothered moving my SIM card over to it. It was so much fun to carry around and use anyway. I used local WIFI connections.
The phone functionality is pretty minor part of the device.
Popping up remote X windows on the phone rocks, and the display is awesome.
  I am now omnipotent!

Re:I third that.

[AvitarX]

How well does it sync with google apps (my sole is already sold)?

I have a G1 that I am getting ready to replace and was thinking I would hold out for the Nexus 2 (allegedly will have longer battery life and a keyboard). The thing I like most on my G1 that I would really miss, is that my contacts sync in real time between gmail, phone, and google voice. Including grabbing peoples pictures if they have specified them, and letting me snap one on the phone and it shows up in those other places. Perhaps it is all luxury, but it is luxury I want. I don't want to worry about not having a number/email address in a certain situation.

The N900 is tempting too though.

Re:mnb Re:Same thing happened to me this weekend

[Sloppy]

and you can NOT apt-get install whateverthefuckyouwant, as nice as that would be.

I wish you'd expand on that. You might end up saving me about $500. Of course, I guess that's my problem. But c'mon, be a slashpal.

M'bro' had all kinds of crazy impractical stuff installed, just because he could. Transmission (sheesh!), OpenOffice (holy crap), Iceweasel, etc. And it all just worked (though OpenOffice sure looked painful). I really got the impression that if it's in Debian-ARM, then the N900 can run it. What can't you install?

computer first, phone second

[Eil]

I no longer feel like I'm dragging a phone with me "just in case" I would need to get in touch with somebody - now I'm having a useful (and admittedly pretty good-looking) gadget instead. The fact that you can use it as a phone too is kind of secondary.

This is because we've finally reached the point where that little computer you carry around in your pocket is actually a general-purpose computing device first and a phone second. Cell phone carriers in the U.S. don't want to sell computers. They want to sell phones. They want us to use minutes, send text messages, browse the web at $0.05/KB. They don't get any money when you use it for some non-phone purpose.

I don't currently have a reason to own a cell phone, but I bought an iPod Touch a month ago and can echo Linus's feelings. There are a few things that I absolutely loathe about this thing (the iTunes lock-in, the lack of a native podcast manager, the uber-restrictive development process) but on the whole it is really darn cool to have a fully-functional web browser in my pocket (almost) wherever I go. Along with email and apps for Twitter, Facebook, stock portfolio management, and so on. If they ever release something like the Nexus One without the phone part, I'd dump this iPod in a heartbeat.

What about RMS

[jonwil]

Is there a phone that Stalman would be happy to use?
Or is even the OpenMoko project too proprietary for his taste?

Re:What about RMS

[RPoet]

RMS doesn't use cell phones because they are "mobile tracking devices".

Re:mnb Re:Same thing happened to me this weekend

[Foolhardy]

The OS is Maemo 5 "Fremantle", which is based on Debian (and BusyBox), but some of the ways it's set up aren't fully compatible with a lot of Debian standard software. I don't think you can just add the Debian ARM repositories directly and install stuff. Packages have to be tested and sometimes modified to work natively.

However, it is popular to create a real Debian environment with chroot, which works around that problem. See Easy Debian, which is a package that does all the work in setting that up, including OpenOffice.org, GIMP, LXDE and an environment you really can apt-get install most anything from the Debian mainline into.

I've had a N900 since December. I'm very happy with it. Installed Easy Debian and OpenOffice and they work quite well. There's only so much word processing I want to do on a platform that size, but it's great for modifying office email attachments on occasion. Having a spreadsheet in my pocket is quite handy too. Stylus is recommended but not compulsory. It's still in testing and there are a few headaches, like some dialogs being too tall to properly reach the buttons at the bottom, but it's already improved a lot from previous versions and I expect it to get even better.

As for the community, the main forums don't look dead to me. Have a look at the packages they offer.

Huh?

[Edam]

This is hardly news...