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Microsoft Wins Windows XP WGA Lawsuit
Rish writes "A lawsuit that accused Microsoft of misleading consumers to download and install an update for Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA) under the guise that it was critical security update has been tossed out. Last month, a federal judge refused to certify the lawsuit as a class action, which would have meant anyone who owned a Windows XP PC in mid-2006 could join the case without having to hire an attorney, and on Friday the same judge dismissed the case completely."
I work in computer repair, and the worst part of WGA is that after doing a repair, sometimes a customer will get that update and the customer will get confused and click cancel or that they decline. This automatically tells them that their software is not genuine.
Microsoft knows how to carefully word their alert to make sure they understand that it could be caused by counterfeit software, but does not even suggest that this alert could be because they just haven't yet validated, or they need to activate.
I used to get angry calls because customers thought I was providing them stolen software. So then I decided I'd make their copies of windows genuine for my customers before they leave. But that's when the pirates come out of the wood work! What do you do when a copy won't validate? Well now you've got a customer who thinks you've stolen their software right off the bat due to the non-genuine alerts you just caused.
It's lose/lose for the pc repair industry- and it's win/win. How many frightened people have gone to staples and picked up a new copy to avoid getting in legal trouble? I know a few...
If you don't like the "we can do anything we want to you at any time" EULA, then the solution is to switch to and support a different OS, not to bitch and moan about the EULA that you chose to accept.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Ah, I see. Microsoft has bribed the judges. That was probably a good idea. Seems affective.
@CmdrTaco That comment has nothing to do with this article.
Yes. Because we all know that corporations should be able to put whatever egregious language they want in their contracts and mere citizens should just bend over and take it.
Fortunately, real contract law doesn't work that way.
Although I am sure that corporate boot-lickers such as yourself will do their best to erode what consumer rights and protections do exist.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Obviously you haven't heard of less legitimate OEM providers who use cracked versions of XP Retail, all installing the same key, and using the crack I listed above. (or a variant thereof)
Get your free Dropbox account with 2 GB Free storage!
Any decent PC tech knows which file to delete to remove the nag screen. Get rid of the nag and let them reinstall WGA next month.
You're there to fix the PC, not to enter into a legal battle.
No sig today...
not to bitch and moan about the EULA that you chose to accept.
I didn't choose to accept the EULA and am not bound by it. Under UK law you
cannot impose terms or conditions after the point of sale.
....but they have lost this customer. WGA was the final straw for me and what ultimately forced my hand. I have migrated to Mac and will never look back. Thanks for the helping hand Microsoft, I'm much happier now.
"citizens should just bend over and take it."
No one is shoving the operating system down your throat, if you don't like the EULA, as mentioned above, switch to an alternative OS. The corporations can only put in "whatever egregious language they want" if you (and a bunch of others) fork over money to them. Stop giving them money, and you'll see how quickly their EULA changes...
As in "If you don't like the "we can do anything we want to you at any time" flight security/other anti-terrorist/anti-pedophile regulations, then the solution is to move and support a different government, not to bitch and moan about the laws that you chose to accept", right?
Sometimes evil should be clearly defined evil, for the real improvements to start. I use Linux myself, but I often see what pain in the rear some MS "solutions" can be. EULA or not, there's some common sense and human dignity left in "common users" after all, or not?
Absence of proof != proof of absence.
I haven't given MS money in ages. Their EULA hasn't changed yet. Perhaps it's because millions of people are too apathetic to care since the EULA is rarely enforced in a fashion most people would notice or would care about.
Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
That makes too much sense for US law.
GooGle? Really?
How long have you been waiting to spring onto the scene and shout that?
It was probably a license-less disc normally bought by volume license holders bundled with a stolen volume licensing key which ended up blacklisted.
Oracle AND Sun?
T!
I hate WGA as much as the next guy, but trying to file a class-action suit against Microsoft because they decided to push out an update for their OS that they deemed "critical" but some users didn't? It seems to me that Microsoft is the one who gets to choose which category they place their updates in, and a "Critical Update" like WGA authentication might seem a lot more critical to MS than to their customers....
As many people already posted here -- if you dislike the way their OS handles things, maybe it's time to consider alternatives? By now, I'm pretty sure the folks in Redmond are well aware of the complaints people have with their products. The fact they've progressively added MORE technology to verify you're a legal owner of their software instead of *removing* it makes it clear they don't care about that complaint!
Say what you will about Apple and OS X, but ever since I migrated over to it, I haven't had a single headache with "product activation" or invalid CD keys.....
If you buy a stolen TV and the police show up to take it, it is also your problem, even if you have a receipt. If a deal is too good to be true, it probably is.
The minor problems upgrading, or incorrectly triggering WGA are nothing compared to the harm done by Microsoft in denying security patches. Years of propagated malware and vast monetary damage to other Windows owners simply to force a few people to buy new copies of their products. For that reason alone I feel a class action suit is justified.
If the employer requires specific software, I think it is reasonable that they also provide it. I think it is reasonable that they also provide it. Goes with the whole package of desk, chair, computer, and all that. Of course, that doesn't necessarily extend to outside the office, but you could negotiate about that.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
...make the rules. Do as I say, not as I do. It's the same in every authoritarian government, whether it be a superpower, a multinational corporation, or just the family next door.
Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
Ars Technica left out a whole bunch of information. The plaintiffs didn't agree to dismissal because the suit was bogus. Plaintiff's' attorneys had a poorly-drafted complaint to start with, spent four years adding and dropping plaintiffs trying to find ones that had actually been "injured", and four years amending the complaint with ever-more-vague claims against Microsoft. This is all part of the public record and anyone can take a look at it. Moral: If you're going to be all mad about something, do your homework first before charging off and filing a lawsuit.
You were so upset by WGA that you decided to do business with Super-Lockdown-Incorporated? Really?
Posts like these are what's great about Slashdot. You read the opinions here, and you get a really good understanding of how real people feel about things.
Reading the mainstream tech sites, you'd think that customers loved Apple's products. That people were lining up to buy Apple's crap, that its customers were loyal and highly satisfied, that Apple was making tons of money, and that its products Just Worked the way people wanted them to.
Here on Slashdot, we learn the ugly truth. Apple's products don't let you do anything. Its customers must be horribly dissatisfied, and nobody ever makes the mistake of doing business with Apple twice.
I agree, to a point. However, I don't believe all of the "we can change everything we want to" was in the original Windows XP EULA. It got added in with the various service packs, etc, that were included in the purchase price of the original software. So the only EULA I feel I "chose to accept" original one on my XP CD. I was coerced into agreeing to the others in order to get updates that I was told I already had the right to. I'd agree with you fully if I had had the opportunity to accept or deny the new EULA in return for something new.
Oblig. car analogy: "Now that you've had your car for 5 years and it's paid for, we've decided to reduce your 10-year warranty to a 5-year warranty, which has now just expired. If you want your 10-year warranty back, you have to allow us to install this box that monitors to make sure the car hasn't been loaned to anyone else without our consent, and if we think it has we can deny you warranty service, and the "Check Engine" light will light up every time you start the car and warn you that your car is no longer genuine."
But, you're right - Microsoft does business the way they do business, and it's pretty clear that they are unapologetic about these sorts of one-sided contract changes. They've got you by the short-and-curlies, and that's just the sort of behavior they are known for now.
I also agree with your solution. I switched to Linux Mint, largely in response to the underhanded tactics that crammed WGA on my computer without my knowledge or consent. It took a while to migrate everything I do over to Linux, but it's done now, and I can happily say that my household is now 100% Microsoft-free.
"RIP one Microsoft Customer, starting with MS-DOS 3.0, ending with Windows XP+WGA".
I'm also only one customer, and I fully realize that Microsoft doesn't give a flying shit about my stance. It's OK, the feeling is now happily mutual.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
Don't buy your computers in Tiajuana or from the grungy back room of some porno shop.
Yeah, I tried to convince her to switch to OO, but according to her, it's incompatible with her employer (big publisher) and she must use MS Office.
If she has a corporate e-mail address chances are good her employer participates in Microsoft's Home Use Program.
Microsoft® Office Enterprise 2007 is hers for ten bucks. Microsoft Home Use Program
Or from budget local shops, or from your local home assembler.
Get your free Dropbox account with 2 GB Free storage!
Yeah, I tried to convince her to switch to OO, but according to her, it's incompatible with her employer (big publisher) and she must use MS Office.
Enjoy this great excuse to stop working from home!
And hell, even if you buy a PC to install Linux on it you may end up with an OEM copy of Windows on it anyway.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
You're not cracking it, you're hiding the nag for a few weeks. Even Microsoft gives you 30 days grace period.
No sig today...
Well yeah, it is her problem.
She has to take it up with the retailer, they sold her dodgy goods. This is the same with any product, if you buy an item that is not legitimate then you wont get support from the producer, you have to deal with it through your retailer.
If your retailer has dissapeared, you can file a fraud complain with the police because they sold you an illegal copy as a legal copy and it is up to the police to track down the people involved.
You must be confused. We're talking about the WGA nag screen, not the activation one. The WGA countdown that happens before you can log into your system? The only way I know to get rid of that is to use a bit of a registry hack (which is provided below), and there's a good reason MS has issued takedown notices to other sites that host that information.
Belief? Hope? Preference?The Existential Vortex
Maybe you know, I accidentally got caught clicking through the approval for update and the WGA started installing on an old XP machine. I cancel the update (when it asks to continue each frigging time I reboot). I would like to kill the update so That does not happen and I don't want to install WGA. Any thoughts on how or where to kill the in process installation?
Thanks,
So, the publishers have switched away from LaTeX now, eh? Disappointing all around.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
in step 2
He was last seen driving away in a brand new Rolls-Royce.
I admit that I came to this thread just because it amazes me to see how much crap people are willing to put up with just to be part of the herd and/or avoid learning something new. The cesspool is full of flailing, complaining people, but you'll never get more than one or two to leave it no matter how pure and sparkling your little pond is.
"the EULA is rarely enforced in a fashion most people would notice or would care about."
If this is the case, is there really an issue? If they tried to enforce it, a bunch of people would probably realize they are doing silly things and stop giving them money...
While I feel for your friend, I must point out that "sold it at a HUGE discount from other retailers" is a clear warning sign.
"HUGE" discounts almost always mean that the retailer has purchased a Microsoft site license and is reselling the activation code for fun and profit. When you buy one of these volume licenses, you have to sign a contract saying that you won't resell or sublet them and that they are strictly for the use of your own company. The retailer is now out of business probably because they got caught and shut down, or shut themselves down after milking the site license for all it was worth and are now doing business under a new name with a new license.
Alternatively, they found one of the site license activation codes on the Internet that some disgruntled employees post from time to time. Microsoft eventually detects those and disables them.
Your friend was robbed, but not by Microsoft. Microsoft is no more liable for that than Chevy would be if your friend ended up buying a "previously stolen" Camaro, or Rolex would be if your friend bought hers from a guy in a trench coat at a street corner. Just because the packaging LOOKS genuine doesn't mean it is.
I sincerely hope this was not a terribly expensive lesson for her.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
If millions of people dont seem to care, and you arent being affected by said EULA (since you arent accepting it), then why have you made it your job to care for them?
We all get it, MS's EULAs suck, I dont know about everyone else, but I got over the outrage a long time ago. When I use windows, I comply with the EULA, and if my customers have an issue, i just put the activation phone call on speaker so they can hear for themselves what I have to go through. Its not my problem, if activation doesnt work for a client they know whose fault it is, and if it doesnt work for me, I repartition my drive to some form of linux until I get over it.
If youre on some crusade to get MS to make their EULA into some form of the GPL, then I'm sorry, youre wasting your time. Most people just dont care about this and youre not going to change that on your own. If youre a tech, your job is to comply with whatever licensing you buy into, no matter what "Im changing the world with my piracy" bullshit you may want to buy into.
the manhunt cavalcade is after you Forest Gump, run, run for your life :-) ...
I was coerced into agreeing to the others in order to get updates that I was told I already had the right to
Do you actually know what coercion is? Or are you just a big fan of hyperbole? This isnt how contracts work, you dont get to agree to 5 different contracts and then choose which one you want to comply with, but feel free to continue justifying it to yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGuhX5AmjuA
If she's a freelancer, she needs to have the basic tools of her trade. If I hire a gardener, I expect them to have a lawnmower, edger, clippers, rake, etc. If I hire a writer, I expect them to own a word processing program capable of saving documents in industry standard formats (.doc, .rtf, .txt). If I hire a web designer for a project, I expect them to have their own web design suite. Now this is all talking about freelancers who are hired as contractors for particular projects who also have other clients in the same industry. That's different than a company employee with no other employers who happens to work from home.
Who said I cared for them? Hundreds of millions don't care. Hundreds of thousands, include me, do care. We're such a minority, we have no traction to change things.
Yea, pragmatically, there's nothing that can be done. That's my point.
I'm not even remotely suggesting that, except to the point that MS's EULA should be optional; ie, if MS wants to grant me extra things in exchange for indemnifying them against defects in their software, I have no problem being given a choice on the matter (and I don't mean either agreeing to MS's EULA or not using Windows).
Exactly. I can't change the world, so it's bullshit every time someone says "you should vote with your dollars to change things". Clearly that won't work in this instance.
This has nothing to do with piracy, but thanks for throwing that in there as if that had anything to do with my complaints about MS's EULA.
Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
So, if it's not really an issue, why don't they change the EULA? Because it costs money to fix the EULA? Or because it gives them the ability to selectively enforce it? Clearly there's something evil about selective enforcement, and that itself is really an issue.
Eurohacker European paranoia, gun rights, and h
The first contract was a voluntary agreement. One which I did not have the opportunity to review before I broke the shrinkwrap and rendered the product unreturnable, but still one that I feel I entered into reasonably freely.
The remainder were conditional to receiving a benefit I had already bought and paid for, and the consequences of not agreeing to the new contracts were that my product would not receive updates and therefore become increasingly insecure.
I can understand the "fine, then don't update it", and I can understand the argument that updates are "added value". But I see them as part of what I purchased in the first place. Maybe I'm wrong in that point of view, but I slowly grew more and more uncomfortable with the additional conditions foisted upon me in return for those updates. With WGA, it reached the point where I had had enough.
And, by the way, I have complied with every one of Microsoft's agreements I have "agreed" to. It's just reached the point where I'm tired of "agreeing" to changes to the EULA.
I'm not going to pirate their product, and I'm not espousing that others do so. I don't even want a refund of my purchase price for XP. I feel I've gotten fair value out of it.
I just don't want to spend any more money on software sold by a company that has changed the conditions under which I can use previous purchases with them. If I go out and buy Windows 7, what's the guarantee that Microsoft won't change the EULA again to their favor?
Maybe you don't care, and that's certainly your right.
"This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
that's a good choice for defense :-) LOL. For a more complete arsenal - if the Colt goes cold, try this ones
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAo8ITfQi0k
Don't use Windows. It's out to get you.
$ make available
Except that you don't 'accept' the EULA until it asks you to do so, which is usually at home after the purchase. So the OP was correct in saying that in the UK the EULA cannot be enforced - although this, to the best of my knowledge, has not been to court yet. The agreement with the seller is usually for a computer system. There is no requirement for you to formally accept the software that is installed. This applies not only to the OS, but also to all of the junk, er 'Value Added' items that are also stuffed on the hard drive.
Have a look at soylentnews.org for a different view
" WGA may serve the purpose of keeping unlicensed copies of MS Windows off the average machine. I question what use that is, since such unlicensed copies only increase perceived market share of MS, and directly increases their power."
What use that is? Killing unlicensed copies off?
if you go with closed source, having 100% marketshare
won't save your biz if 100% of the copies were not paid for.
ever hear the meme/adage about internet startups that goes something like
"we lose XX dollars on every sale- we make up for it with volume"
I'm not saying I agree with WGA methodology, but I do disagree with your specific argument against it's purposelessness
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
If you have an OEM version of Windows, then replacing the motherboard requires a new licence. This is explained in the OEM System Builder Licencing FAQ, which I quote below:
Generally, an end user can upgrade or replace all of the hardware components on a computer—except the motherboard—and still retain the license for the original Microsoft OEM operating system software. If the motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect, then a new computer has been created. Microsoft OEM operating system software cannot be transferred to the new computer, and the license of new operating system software is required.
If the motherboard is replaced because it is defective, you do not need to acquire a new operating system license for the PC as long as the replacement motherboard is the same make/model or the same manufacturer's replacement/equivalent, as defined by the manufacturer's warranty.
Nope: I always check the MD5s with OpenBSD.org before installing.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
So do you think we should increase spending on law enforcement so as to crack down on the pirates selling shrinkwrap hologrammed copies of Windows? Or should we reduce spending and allow the knockoffs to compete with the alternatives?
This was really just MS taking responsibility for part of the costs of enforcement. Good for them.
Right. I completely agree. Based on the word "employer", I assumed she wouldn't be a freelancer. But if she is, it is reasonable to expect her to bring her own tools - and be compensated for it by getting paid more.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
If it's such a big deal, perhaps you should consider removing the EULA from the service pack before installing it. I don't know what it would mean legally though.
Most human behaviour can be explained in terms of identity.
Maybe you don't think thats a problem.
OTOH I think it's a problem that anti-piracy measures make worse by discouraging casual copying and encouraging large pirate networks who can deal with the anti-piracy measures.
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
Not exactly: one morning your trusty 10 year old car got "anti-theft" (a.k.a. anti-owner) system magically installed, and it just happens not to recognize your ignition key. Would you be mad? I know I would.
Genuine Car Advantage Auto-installed (!):