Oracle Shuttering OpenSSO

mdm42 writes "OpenSSO is one of the best open source web Single Sign On projects out there. Sun Microsystems made OpenSSO open source in 2008, so it's sad to see how, after absorbing Sun, Oracle is shutting down this amazing project, labelling it 'not strategic' and dismembering the few parts they think are worthwhile for their own SSO effort. They started by freezing the next express release, and during the last few weeks they have been removing all the open source downloads from the OpenSSO website and removing content from the wiki. Fortunately, a Norwegian company called ForgeRock has stepped up to the plate in an attempt to salvage the project under the new name OpenAM."

Comments

MySQL next?

[Bearhouse]

Sadly, probably yes...

Re:MySQL next?

[Locke2005]

Why so sad? This only proves that you can't kill an open source project; any worthwhile project will have someone else pick up the development, with or without forking it. If Sun attempts to "kill" MySQL, somebody else will pick that up too. Sure, repurposing the paid developers formerly working on the project is a real loss to the project, but not a fatal one.

Re:MySQL next?

[seebs]

Gee, if only we had PostgreSQL doing just fine as an alternative, then I wouldn't mind so much if MySQL went away.

Re:MySQL next?

[sadov]

Apropos -- Oracles acquisition of Sun for russian regional representations approved by russian Federal Antimonopoly Service of the Russian Federation at 19 March.

The main condition of this approvement -- 4 years of MySQL support & development and saving of Open Source status of this project.

You may found this verdict at agency site (unfortunately only on Russian now ;) :

http://www.fas.gov.ru/merger/decisions032010/a_29515.shtml

Re:MySQL next?

[dgatwood]

And don't forget Ingres, SQLite (which is good enough for a lot of low-bandwidth stuff that MySQL has historically been used for), Drizzle (MySQL fork), and probably at least a half dozen others....

Re:MySQL next?

[WrongSizeGlass]

http://www.fas.gov.ru/merger/decisions032010/a_29515.shtml

I ran that link through Google Translator, and it came back with: "All your queries are belong to us" and "MySQL will be renamed OurSQL".

The Sun Also Sets

[WrongSizeGlass]

Another nail in the once proud legacy of Sun.

Re:The Sun Also Sets

[WrongSizeGlass]

Because they want to monazite any parts of it they can pilfer. I used to refer to this practice as 'Frankensteining', but when it comes to Oracle I don't want to tarnish the good name of Frankenstein.

Re:The Sun Also Sets

[Anonymous Coward]

Because they want to monazite any parts of it they can pilfer.

They want to mine rare earths from their software?

Re:The Sun Also Sets

[WrongSizeGlass]

D'oh! Damn Apple's autocorrect ...

Re:The Sun Also Sets

[plover]

Is it? Or is OpenSSO simply inconsequential?

I've never understood the appeal of SSO solutions. Joe Sixpack doesn't give a damn. It's never been made simple enough for him to "get". A handful of geeks may think it's awesome. But the rest of the real world doesn't care.

Snoracle is probably totally safe with this.

Re:The Sun Also Sets

[mobby_6kl]

Yeah, I'll second this. We thankfully have an SSO solution at our company, and everybody seems to love it. I'm myself not an "average user", but even I would probably kill myself in short order if I had to manually enter my credentials every time I accessed on of our internal systems. And not only it's more convenient, it's also probably more secure, since users don't need to have a bunch of post-it notes with passwords stuck to their monitors.

Re:The Sun Also Sets

[Tacvek]

Most SSO in organizations I've ever seen seem to work by connecting the user directory to Kerberos, and use that for authentication to everything. Depending on how well IT department set up token forwarding, you may need to enter your credentials to access many systems, but everything in the company, from signing into the Windows Domain, to authenticating to the database uses Kerberos, so you have exactly one password to remember.

Re:The Sun Also Sets

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree - SSO is nice when it's done properly. But unfortunately, I work for Oracle.

And Oracle has what ~they call an SSO~ for most of their internal stuff, but it isn't really. I.e. it's the same credentials but you have to separately enter them on every freaking page. Webmail? Enter your SSO. Procurement? Enter your SSO. Timesheets? Changing your employee details? You get the idea.

What's worse is that on top of this there's still a handful of systems that don't use the SSO, like the IP phone consoles and the teleconferencing solution they have.

This is the way of MySQL too?

[Z00L00K]

This may be a test to see if they get attention for shutting down an open source project they inherited in order to also in the long run do the same to MySQL and possibly also other OpenSource projects.

Re:This is the way of MySQL too?

[PFAK]

Well, considering, there is no official announcement from Oracle that they are pulling OpenSSO from their product lineup. This article/blog entry is mere speculation.

Re:This is the way of MySQL too?

[BitZtream]

Or it could be that no one actually gave a shit about OpenSSO outside a very small group of people.

Its funny that everyone assume Oracle is being evil when a simple bit of common sense makes it pretty clear that its a waste of resources from pretty much every perspective to Oracle.

Re:This is the way of MySQL too?

[NeutronCowboy]

Just like MySQL? I can't see the business case that will cause Oracle to keep MySQL around. A low-end version into the DB market? Just slap a few limitations on an actual Oracle DB, and presto - low-end version with a trivial upgrade path to "the real thing."

Re:This is the way of MySQL too?

[Anonymous Coward]

As a Snorkel employee (Sun->Oracle) I'll add a simple comment. If it isn't profitable or strategic, it will be shuttered or turned loose to the community to support. It is *as simple as that*.

Re:This is the way of MySQL too?

[Chyeld]

Information on the Wiki being removed, all of the 'opensource' versions removed for download, all updates to the same removed, leaving only the pay "enterprise" version avaliable?

Let me guess, in a previous life you worked in Baghdad handing press announcements concerning the Allied troop advances for the Iraqi government.

Re:This is the way of MySQL too?

[Kjella]

Reality check: Nobody buys a company and just carries on because unless it was really mispriced in the market, you've gained nothing. You might as well have put the money in a stock fund. In closed source companies this means projects get canceled, reprioritized, product portfolios are aligned and they search high and low for the claimed synergies they were supposed to get. What happens in open source companies? Exactly this same. There's been quite a few of these stories now and they're all full of trivial projects and tin foil hat conspiracy. I just checked Digg and THEY got better stories than this. I'm quite the geek but still... stuff that matters. Or is at least cool, interesting or funny in a nerdy way. But not "Minor corporate politics" for 100$, I'll pass Alex.

Re:This is the way of MySQL too?

[copponex]

The information asymmetry involved in technology make it a very lucrative place to be. A vast majority of people don't understand the differences between Windows and Linux, much less the difference of open and closed source.

Oracle is determining what parts of Sun are profitable, and planning to abandon the parts that are not. The abandonment of unprofitable Sun products will be touted as their commitment to open source. The privatization of Sun products will be touted as their commitment to innovation, or some other meaningless phrase.

If it makes you feel any better, that was also the policy of Sun. And Microsoft. And Apple. If you are ever on the wrong side of a profit equation for a company, you will be screwed. This is as certain as death and taxes.

Re:This is the way of MySQL too?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, considering, there is no official announcement from Oracle that they are pulling OpenSSO from their product lineup. This article/blog entry is mere speculation.

No, not "speculation", rather "observation".

Re:This is the way of MySQL too?

[DMUTPeregrine]

This is the first time I've heard of OpenSSO. Now, I'm not a web developer, but isn't OpenID much more popular as a SSO service?

Re:This is the way of MySQL too?

[Anonymous Coward]

Which is why you probably aren't a business man. MySQL still has plenty of people who are loyal to the MySQL brand and will continue to use it, whether it's Sun or Oracle who's owning it. Anyway Oracle already has a version of their database you can use for limited use.

Re: Maybe not

[colinnwn]

MySQL would be a very high profile project to kill. I think it is more likely they would provide much less support and engineering resources for it going forward, leaving it to the community outside of Sun to keep it feature and bug competitive.

Proprietary product, anyone?

[Night64]

Oracle is probably trying to leverage her own Identity Management product against IBM and Novell, who are kings on this market.

OpenSSO isn't trademarked by Oracle/Sun

[PFAK]

OpenSSO is not a trademark of Oracle/Sun, you can see a list of trademarks for Sun at http://www.sun.com/suntrademarks/

Re:OpenSSO isn't trademarked by Oracle/Sun

[Gerald]

It's not a registered trademark. You have plenty of rights over a mark even when you haven't registered it.

Re: Maybe not

[Bearhouse]

I think it is more likely they would provide much less support and engineering resources for it going forward, leaving it to the community outside of Sun to keep it feature and bug competitive.

Pretty much what I meant...but a fork surely won't be as credible with the corporate suits as a product with Sun behind it.
Shame, MySQL & Ooffice are both great products IMHO.
Maybe a white knight (with a Red Hat?) will take it over, but I'm sure if they're too successful than Larry will find a way to stymie it...

Re: Maybe not

[WrongSizeGlass]

oraclepleasedontkillmysql.com is still available ... I sure hope Oracle doesn't get it first ...

OpenAM?

[nycguy]

Isn't FOSSSSO so much more appealing?

Re:SPARC

[argoth]

Losing SPARC doesn't make much sense for Oracle. They already are closing down their x86 business and all the talk from them has been about investing in / focusing more on their SPARC (read more expensive) integrated system offerings

Risks and Benefits of OSS

[olyar]

As much as this is a bummer, it's actually a great example of the OSS model at work.

If this was a closed source solution, where the company got acquired and the product wasn't strategic, the solution would just be gone.

With OSS though, another company - for whom the solution is strategic - can step in and pick up the project.

Re:Risks and Benefits of OSS

[BitZtream]

Yea, and pretty much any time some propritary software package is terminated, it is almost certainly available for sale to someone else so it can be taken over if its worth it to someone.

The reason it doesn't happen is because the projects that get cut are the ones that no one cares enough about to continue development.

The license of the software pretty much no effect on its ability survive, its worth to someone else does.

Re:Risks and Benefits of OSS

[Anonymous Coward]

Not true.

Let me cite an example in the exact same market space: CA acquired Netegrity because they wanted SiteMinder even though they (CA) already had a web SSO product. In addition to SiteMinder (their main business) Netegrity had a provisioning product. After the acquisition closed CA shot their in house SSO product and shot Netegrity's provisioning product.

CA would never have even considered selling either product to anyone else at any price for two reasons:
* why compete with a product you created when you already own it
and
* it's better to migrate your existing customers on the "to be killed" product over to the strategic product than to sell them off along with the product you're killing.

This happens throughout the software industry every time there's an acquisition and some overlapping products. The acquirer decides which products will live on, which will be shot immediately and which will be put onto life support until customers can be gently moved off onto the strategic product.

The only difference here, as the grandparent says, is that someone can grab the code and resources and carry on.

Re:Risks and Benefits of OSS

[petermgreen]

Yeae. and pretty much any time some propritary software package is terminated, it is almost certainly available for sale to someone else so it can be taken over if its worth it to someone.
Bullshit

Buying out a propietry requires a substantial chunk of cash up front. So it's only an option if one of the following applies.
1: you are big enough to buy it out
2: you can convince another company that it's worth thier while to buy it out, take it over and sell you licences.
3: you can get enough of the community together to buy it out.

And even if you can get the money together the owner still has to be willing to sell. They may not be especially if they consider killing the project to be a strategic move.

Copying the code of an opensource project and setting up repositries OTOH is so cheap that anyone can do it. Minimal maintenance (accepting bugfixes, dealing with new OS releases etc) is some work but should be managable by a few interested users working together.

Good for them

[selven]

SSO is a pretty backwards way to do Open Source Software.

Re:Scandinavians again.

[spun]

Depends on whether you would call the UK circa 1970 a capitalist country or not. The inventor of the relational database was British.

Ironic

[ritzer]

This has got to be the height of irony. Lamenting, a commercial entity is dropping a project that doesn't make money... But, isn't the beauty of open source related to the fact that those who care, can pick up the source and make it work? So, prove it.

Code still accessible from the CVS

[thetoadwarrior]

If you want the source you can get the info to obtain it from here http://wikis.sun.com/display/OpenSSO/CVS+Tags

I'm grabbing the source now.

Re:SPARC

[david_thornley]

SPARC is strategic. It gives Oracle an opportunity to provide a whole hardware and software stack.

Love it.

[toriver]

- Hi we are Sun and we have this portal. You want to buy a commercial license for it?
*buys*
*six months pass*
- Oh hi we decided to drop that portal and switch to this Liferay-based Webspace solution none of our techs really know anything much about?
*grumble*
*a year passes*
- Oh hi again, we were just bought by Oracle and will be abandoning Webspace, would you like to switch to this WebLogic-based monstrosity instead?
*curses*

That is in addition to the OpenSSO/IDM kerfuffle.

Re: Maybe not

[jhol13]

Why? MySQL is a goose laying golden eggs. Why would Oracle kill it?

They will charge for the support and engineering, just like Trolltech and Sun did.

Re: Maybe not

[dimeglio]

Once you go opensource, you can't go back.