Android Ported To iPhone

anethema writes "iPhone hacker planetbeing, from the iPhone Dev Team, has successfully ported the Android OS over to the iPhone. He is doing it on a first-generation iPhone, but others may be possible. The port is pretty functional, with data, voice, and many apps working, although it is running a bit sluggish and buggy at the moment. There appears to be much work left."

Comments

This showes the POWER of linux!!!!

[For a Free Internet]

I am alsways joyeful that Microsoft created Linux for us so we can do these wondrefule things with our phone-hands. Never befoer was this pssible, EVER in hte WORLD butr today, YES WE CAN!

Re:This showes the POWER of linux!!!!

[Meski]

In answer to "but-can-you-go-the-other-way dept" I say - but-would-anyone-in-their-right-mind-really-want-to?

I think I just jizzed myself

[BadAnalogyGuy]

I can't believe it. Someone's answered my dreams!

A phone that is expensive, sucks, *and* pretentious. I thought I was going to have to go with a lame old Android phone, but man, there's hope for poseurs like me yet!

Re:I think I just jizzed myself

[Thanshin]

A phone that is expensive, sucks, *and* pretentious.

So we've got here either a phone that is sucks or a phone that pretentious?

Well, if there's a phone that can be sucks or pretent, it's the IPhone.

Re:I think I just jizzed myself

[outsider007]

And we've apparently found a new niche: Label-conscious serial public masturbators.

Re:I think I just jizzed myself

[Jewdass]

You're not doing a very good job of hiding your insecurities.

Re:I think I just jizzed myself

[AHuxley]

Code things alone now mostly
Left MS heart broken not lookin' for community
Surprised in my eyes when I logged online
The nerd site and I saw the story
My brain stood still so did time and space
Never felt that I could free mobile again
But the feel of the code screamed I need a developer
Mom turned to me that's when she said it
Looked me dead in the face, asked "early birthday? or christmas"
And I
Jizzed in my pants

Re:I think I just jizzed myself

[sarhjinian]

To achieve ultimate suck it will require Windows Mobile.

Re:I think I just jizzed myself

[Anonymous Coward]

And we've apparently found a new niche: Label-conscious serial public masturbators.

Not just that, Android allows multitasking, so you can corner the label-conscious parallel public masturbator market as well!

Re:I think I just jizzed myself

[GooberToo]

Now the developer needs to pretend to "lose" it in a bar so he can get endless free hype and advertising for his iPhone/Android marriage.

Pr0n!

[Pharmboy]

So Steve Jobs was wrong, you CAN get porn on your iPhone ;)

Re:Pr0n!

[elrous0]

Somewhere, right now, Steve Jobs is throwing a narcissistic hissy-fit that would make even Steve Ballmer say "DAMN!"

Re:Pr0n!

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't recalling anyone ever saying that... I have heaps of porn on my iPhone.

Re:Pr0n!

[Flammon]

Original? Or were you just on Digg? http://digg.com/apple/Steve_Jobs_Folks_who_want_porn_can_buy_an_Android_phone

Re:Pr0n!

[icebraining]

When someone tells you 2 + 2 = 4, do you also think they're cheating?

Re:Pr0n!

[Flammon]

Oops, wrong link. Ah, here it is, most digged comment. http://digg.com/apple/Linux_on_the_iPhone_Android_running_on_iPhone

Re:Pr0n!

[tylerni7]

*ignores low UID*

Original? you must be new here.

Re:Pr0n!

[0xdeadbeef]

And they stole it from Reddit.

But I'm sure Jellybagel doesn't care, because whining about an obvious joke is fucking retarded.

Re:Pr0n!

[rolfwind]

More likely he's just not caring. You bought the iPhone hardware, put money in his pocket, and relieved his company the expense of having to support the phone should you ever go to the genius bar with the phone like that.

The porn thing is probably just being in a rock and hard place of having stuff like that in the App store yet there being only one app store. If it went in, you'd have all the parenting groups crying foul, and once another app store opens that Apple allows the phone to connect to, they'll have just blessed their own competition.

Apple should come out with a solution though.

Re:Pr0n!

[Flammon]

Who said anything about cheating? Sure, it's an obvious joke but it was word for word with matching caps on "CAN" so a link would have been nice but then again, this is Slashot 2.0 and the vocal few aren't so nice.

Re:Pr0n!

[Anonymous Coward]

Try reading the hundreds of articles on the subject, including here on /. yesterday. Duh.

Re:Pr0n!

[PopeRatzo]

If it went in, you'd have all the parenting groups crying foul

Great, so Apple has made it so parenting groups can dictate what I can do with my tech devices.

There could have easily been many other possible solutions other than making all Apple devices G-rated. Give people a choice, put simple parental controls at the time of purchase, sell a second version without "parental controls" for those of us who don't require an Apple chaperone.

Further, there could have been a very simple solution to the Apple app-store lock-down. Let other companies offer iPhone-compatible app-stores, just don't support their apps. Let the developers support their own apps.

I'm sorry, but the bit about Apple needing to keep strict control over applications and OS so they can be sure everybody gets first rate support and a "high-quality end-user experience" is simply bogus. Shit, why not sell unlocked iPhones and just not offer support? You're not going to get support unless you pay extra, anyway.

Re:Pr0n!

[Flammon]

*ignores low UID*

Original? you must be new here.

lol, nice.

Re:Pr0n!

[Anonymous Coward]

Somewhere, right now, Steve Jobs is throwing a chair that would make even Steve Ballmer say "DAMN!"

ftfy.

Re:Pr0n!

[Sir_Lewk]

How often do you see someone link to old slashdot posts when they recycle an old as sin SCO joke? For what it's worth, I think it's a pretty obvious joke with a very basic and short sentence structure. I could reasonably see two separate people making it.

Re:Pr0n!

[pcolaman]

You do realize this is Apple we're talking about here, right? No way will they ever relinquish any control over their software or hardware as you suggest by allowing any competition. And Apple obviously doesn't care if you care that the phone has an "Apple chaperone." If they ever did allow porn, they'd come up with a way to bone you for going with that as well. So essentially, to see some fucking, you'd still get fucked.

Re:Pr0n!

[Lumpy]

There you go making a rational and well worded and thoughful comment in a iphone article thread.

Why cant people like you be like the rest of the nutjobs and simply foam at the mouth that the word iPhone was used?

Next thing we will see is a well edited story.... YOU ARE DESTROYING SLASHDOT!

Dang rational people....

Re:Pr0n!

[Flammon]

Possibly but credit is important to me whether it's a stupid joke or some grand scientific discovery so I'll speak up whenever I can.

Re:Pr0n!

[tenco]

So Steve Jobs was wrong, you CAN get porn on your iPhone ;)

Now if you only could find an iPhone that's yours and not Steves...

Re:Pr0n!

[icebraining]

You're just jealous of his +5 insightful :)

Re:Pr0n!

[Flammon]

Yes I am. Now get off my lawn!

Re:Pr0n!

[nine-times]

I doubt it. I'd guess he'd think it's funny that someone bothered to do this, and he'd feel confident that most iPhone users won't bother. If you'd ask him, I bet he'd say something like, "If you want to run Android, why not buy a phone that's built for it?"

Re:Pr0n!

[Americano]

No, Apple has made it so you can't load some stupid "iJiggle" boob app on your iphone through their official channels.

The web still works just fine; video still works just fine. Rip Porn DVDs, or visit any of the multitude of mobile porn sites, and you can quite easily view X-rated content with your iphone.

While I agree that the restriction on "adult" apps is silly (implement a parental control system and ratings on the apps), did you REALLY need a pair of cartoon tits in an application on your phone when there's plenty of audio, video, and photographic porn that's available right in your browser? I guess I don't miss it because I wouldn't have bothered to buy any of those apps in the first place, I can get my porn by browsing if I really want it.

Re:Pr0n!

[node 3]

There could have easily been many other possible solutions other than making all Apple devices G-rated. Give people a choice, put simple parental controls at the time of purchase, sell a second version without "parental controls" for those of us who don't require an Apple chaperone.

Yes, there are other possible solutions, but just because you can imagine some solution doesn't make it suddenly materialize. It actually takes effort to put something into place. And the way Apple does these sorts of things is they try hard to get it as close to perfect on their first try as they can.

This is why things like cut and paste and multitasking and third party apps took so long.

The biggest problem with an adult section on the iTunes App Store is how to enforce it. How do you verify that someone is an adult? Yes, I realize that age verification is flawed everywhere, but likewise, you should also admit this is the case. It's at best a road block, but every time a 3 year old is found playing some porn app, the parent is going to be pissed at Apple.

The same problem exists for explicit music, R rated movies, and the Playboy app, but these things are already established issues parents have to deal with. But hard core porn apps are not.

Maybe I'm super-sheltered or something, but I don't think porn applications are all that common on regular computers (I know try exist, but they are extremely uncommon).

Further, there could have been a very simple solution to the Apple app-store lock-down. Let other companies offer iPhone-compatible app-stores, just don't support their apps. Let the developers support their own apps.

Another solution, but untenable for both the reason I mentioned above (less so, but still something that will reflect poorly on the iPhone to parents), and also the non-porn reasons for the single source app store.

These reasons include spyware, malware and crapware. It's also about simplicity of the entire iPhone experience. With just a single app store, you know that there's just one place to look for apps. And you only need one account, enter your credit card for one store and your apps are already in iTunes, syncing automatically.

This is part of what makes the iPhone such a compelling phone for most people. Yes, for a small minority, the restrictions are going to be too confining, and Apple knows this. They would rather make the most enjoyable phone to use, not the most hackable.

You may have the opposite priorities. Well, Apple's just not that into you.

I'm sorry, but the bit about Apple needing to keep strict control over applications and OS so they can be sure everybody gets first rate support and a "high-quality end-user experience" is simply bogus. Shit, why not sell unlocked iPhones and just not offer support? You're not going to get support unless you pay extra, anyway.

Nope. Apple's success is built on providing the most hassle-free systems out there. To offer an official and easy "no warranty" option negates that advantage.

Apple doesn't make the phone you want. Others do, though. Why are you arguing for Apple to ruin their phone, destroying the things that make their products so great, when there are already phones that meet your needs?

The meme here on Slashdot that Apple wants to control your mind, or control what you are allowed to do on your iPhone is absurd. I mean, over the top, paranoid delusional, health-care "death panel" absurd.

Re:Pr0n!

[Jake Griffin]

Somewhere, right now, Steve Jobs is throwing a chairman of the board out a window that would make even Steve Ballmer say "DAMN!"

ftfy.

ftfy

Re:Pr0n!

[serbanp]

[...] every time a 3 year old is found playing some porn app, the parent is going to be pissed at Apple.

Such parents should go f*ck themselves instead of blaming a piece of hardware for their failure at parenting.

Re:Pr0n!

[Pharmboy]

Finally figured out what you were talking about. Sorry, I've haven't been on Digg in a very, very long time. It was a pure coincidence that I posted the same line. It was a pretty obvious joke, actually, I was just the first to post it here, likely you could google it and find plenty more exact copies of the line. As for using caps, if you look at my posts, I tend to do that a lot. I also tend to put a fair amount of links in my posts, so had I saw it on Digg (or anywhere else) first, I would have given proper credit for the line. Pure coincidence. I can see why you might have thought it was a copy, but it isn't.

Re:Pr0n!

[Flammon]

Ha! A polite and intelligent response. Thank you, much appreciated.

Re:Pr0n!

[node 3]

[...] every time a 3 year old is found playing some porn app, the parent is going to be pissed at Apple.

Such parents should go f*ck themselves instead of blaming a piece of hardware for their failure at parenting.

Be that as it may[*], it's still a problem Apple will have to deal with. This is one of the biggest things the Open Source crowd doesn't seem to understand. The belief that if a problem is in some way irrational, subjective, or unnecessary, then it's not something they have to deal with, is far too prevalent.

[*] However, I disagree with your assessment. Parenting is hard enough as it is. Parents are not omniscient or omnipotent. They can use all the help they can get. Parents can buy their kids a Nintendo DS without having to worry that their kids might end up running porn games on it. They can also do the same with the iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad.

Telling parents to fuck themselves is not a solution to this problem. In fact, it simply makes it worse.

Re:Pr0n!

[PopeRatzo]

Parents can buy their kids a Nintendo DS without having to worry that their kids might end up running porn games on it. They can also do the same with the iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad.

Then for god's sake, instead of dumbing down the entire iPhone/iPod/iPad platform to meet the needs of kiddies, put out a "kiddie version" for the little ones and treat adults like adults.

But "adult" apps are the least of my problems with Apple's locked-down-tight approach to their consumer electronics devices. How about just letting us customers decide where we're going to get our apps?

Re:Pr0n!

[node 3]

Then for god's sake, instead of dumbing down the entire iPhone/iPod/iPad platform to meet the needs of kiddies, put out a "kiddie version" for the little ones and treat adults like adults.

It's not dumbed down for children. It's simply not got porn apps, for children's sake.

But "adult" apps are the least of my problems with Apple's locked-down-tight approach to their consumer electronics devices. How about just letting us customers decide where we're going to get our apps?

Not gonna happen. And most people don't care. On the contrary, most people benefit greatly from this.

If you care, though, buy an Android. Problem solved.

Re:Pr0n!

[serbanp]

I don't see absolutely no reason for which a 3 years old would come close to an iPhone. Sorry, but if a parent let his/her toddler play with it, he/she failed at parenting.

I agree though, parenting is hard.

Re:Pr0n!

[Anonymous Coward]

[...] every time a 3 year old is found playing some porn app, the parent is going to be pissed at Apple.

Such parents should go f*ck themselves instead of blaming a piece of hardware for their failure at parenting.

Be that as it may[*], it's still a problem Apple will have to deal with. This is one of the biggest things the Open Source crowd doesn't seem to understand. The belief that if a problem is in some way irrational, subjective, or unnecessary, then it's not something they have to deal with, is far too prevalent.

[*] However, I disagree with your assessment. Parenting is hard enough as it is. Parents are not omniscient or omnipotent. They can use all the help they can get. Parents can buy their kids a Nintendo DS without having to worry that their kids might end up running porn games on it. They can also do the same with the iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad.

Telling parents to fuck themselves is not a solution to this problem. In fact, it simply makes it worse.

BS. It seems to be a problem you don't understand. Blaming the world for someones inabilities isn't the answer. This isn't how the real world works.

Lets look at the subject here. A 3 year old playing some porn app. So the answer is to sanitize the iPhone ecosystem. Thats not a good problem/solution. Thats playing censor. It holds as much merit as expecting every movie shop to only hold PG13 movies 'because some child might get their hands on an adult ones', expecting every book store to hold only teen rated books 'because some child might get their hands on an adult one', expecting everyone in every situation that they must at all times keep themselves censored to a PG13 level lest a child might be in the area/see/hear whats going on. Welcome to the real world. Removing any source of 'adult' content is ridiculous and just a form of censorship. So what if some problem is in some way irrational, subjective or unnecessary? That doesn't mean the world must stop and change its direction to shield a child because a parent doesn't want to take an effort. Yes parenting is hard. But thats part of being a parent. It's about parenting and protecting their children, not hand them random devices and expect that everyone must be censored to a childs level so you don't have to do the job yourself. If you can't control what you hand your children and need someone else to censor the world in place of you, then your a pretty poor parent. I've had children around and helped raise them, I knew that I needed to watch what they were able to get to and take the proper measures to make sure to keep them away from things they shouldn't touch from things like pornographic material to as simple and more dangerous things like sharp kitchen knives, not sit down in some chair and let them do whatever they wanted without supervision. And if you can't do something like that, don't have children because you obviously can't handle the responsibilities of a child and seem to expect everyone else will be the parent you can't make yourself be.

Re:Pr0n!

[jisatsusha]

Why should it even matter? iPhone already has parental controls and an iPhone App Store rating system, if parents really don't want their kids using that kind of thing, it's very easy to prevent it.

android debug build is sluggish

[Anonymous Coward]

running a bit sluggish

He says that he's running a debug version of Android. I would expect it to be sluggish.

Re:android debug build is sluggish

[dancingmilk]

Apple does more flashy useless bullshit on less but more expensive hardware.

FTFY.

Re:android debug build is sluggish

[jedidiah]

> A vertical intergration in your hardware software stack means you can squeeze every drop of performance out of it.

Not really.

That only works if your hardware is something special. If Apple's phones are anything like their PCs, then this isn't the case.

Android liberating phones from St. Steve. That's just hilarious.

If he can get it going on a 3G iPhone...

[jo_ham]

... then it may just be the next step when my contract is up with O2 in a couple of months. I want the free google turn-by-turn app, and if I don't have to buy new hardware to get it, it might just make the difference.

Well this is...

[the_one_wesp]

an interesting turn of events...
1.) Does this mean that Adobe will resume flash development for iphone?
2.) Will Jobs now consider the iPhone a viable platform for porn applications?

Re:Well this is...

[Anonymous Coward]

What this will mean, especially when the bugs are ironed out of it is, all those Iphone users who tells us "Ok, you own the hardware but Apple's software is on it, so hands off!" can now shut up. Now we can OWN the hardware and put something else on it. Does that satisfy the Apple crowd or are death threats imminent for the person who accomplished this?

Re:Well this is...

[pcolaman]

Money says this person gets a cease and desist by Apple because as we all know, you don't really own the phone, Apple has given you the incredible honor of simply allowing the iPhone to own you.

Re:Well this is...

[MadKeithV]

iPwnd?

Re:Well this is...

[sgbett]

Cease and desist what? doing what he wants with his phone? If so I'll take that bet.

They put those conditions so that you get support. If you don't want that support, then why would they care.

It's to protect their bottom line, that's why the genius bar can actually work and why the guru bar can only ever be a poor imitation.

It's like those stickers that say warranty void if removed. It protects from users. Users break shit all the time and then try and blame everyone else but themselves.

Re:Well this is...

[pcolaman]

I guess that's why people who modded consoles didn't get in trouble either, right? /endsarcasm

Case in point

[betterunixthanunix]

So uhm, all those people who say the iPhone/iPad is not a computer because things like this are "impossible" -- where are you now?

Re:Case in point

[tsj5j]

Perhaps as an Apple fanboi you kinda missed their point.

Let me re-iterate to you:
APPLE STIFLES INNOVATION AND LIKES TO ABUSE THEIR POWER OVER DEVELOPERS.

Do you seriously think that armed with a NDA-protected, $99/year developer fee, restricting nearly all aspects of development and content and NOT providing alternative app stores will EVER match up to Android?

Re:Case in point

[betterunixthanunix]

Perhaps as an angry Apple hater, you missed the part where I was ridiculing Apple fanbois.

Re:Case in point

[Ephemeriis]

So uhm, all those people who say the iPhone/iPad is not a computer because things like this are "impossible" -- where are you now?

Lots of things have all sorts of electronics in them... Frequently enough processing power to be called a computer, if you really want to be pedantic about it. I could probably go to the junkyard and rip some chips out of some cars and port Android to that pile of silicon too... But that doesn't really make my car a computer, does it?

Used to be that you'd buy an engine or a motor. It'd be a big ol' freestanding thing. You'd use an assortment of gears and belts to attach it to whatever equipment you wanted to run. You might very well use that same motor to drive a number of bits of hardware.

You can certainly still do that... But folks don't, generally. That kind of thing is pretty much reserved for large-scale industrial stuff, not your average homeowner. These days our gadgets come with their own motors built-in.

A drill, a saw, and an electric toothbrush all have electric motors in them... And you could, if you really wanted to, rip those motors out and re-purpose them... But I certainly wouldn't call a drill a motor.

Similarly... Despite the fact that an iPhone does contain a processor and can run arbitrary code on it, I wouldn't call it a computer.

Re:Case in point

[betterunixthanunix]

Note that the iPhone has more than just a "processor [that] can run arbitrary code" -- it has a CPU, memory, a general user interface, and could, in the absence of deliberate software restrictions on the part of Apple, be used as a small mobile computer (which happens to have the ability to connect to a cell phone network). This is not as extreme as running NetBSD on a toaster, or repurposing a car's microcontrollers for some other task -- the iPhone has all the hardware needed to be used for general consumer-grade computing, albeit in a pocket sized form factor.

Re:Case in point

[Anonymous Coward]

APPLE STIFLES INNOVATION AND LIKES TO ABUSE THEIR POWER OVER DEVELOPERS.

Since you seem to be this thread's expert on the topic, perhaps you can answer this simple question:

Why do you approve of the significantly stricter controls and higher development that Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony place on their Wii, XBox, and PS developers, but hold Apple to a different standard for their consumer electronics device?

Re:Case in point

[Ephemeriis]

Note that the iPhone has more than just a "processor [that] can run arbitrary code" -- it has a CPU, memory, a general user interface, and could, in the absence of deliberate software restrictions on the part of Apple, be used as a small mobile computer (which happens to have the ability to connect to a cell phone network). This is not as extreme as running NetBSD on a toaster, or repurposing a car's microcontrollers for some other task -- the iPhone has all the hardware needed to be used for general consumer-grade computing, albeit in a pocket sized form factor.

I understand all that.

And the same could easily be said of many other smartphones out there.

But I wouldn't actually call any of them a computer.

Re:Case in point

[betterunixthanunix]

I honestly do not understand why you would not call a device that has every hardware feature my laptop has a "computer" -- the only difference is the form factor and the advertised use. What if I installed software on your laptop that railroaded you into using it in a specific way, would I have suddenly transformed your laptop into something other than a "computer?"

Re:Case in point

[betterunixthanunix]

At what point did anyone say they approve of restrictions on other computing systems? Who is holding Apple to a different standard? We all have the same things to say about Nintendo, Sony, and every other company that actively works to restrict the users of their devices.

Re:Case in point

[Ephemeriis]

I honestly do not understand why you would not call a device that has every hardware feature my laptop has a "computer" -- the only difference is the form factor and the advertised use. What if I installed software on your laptop that railroaded you into using it in a specific way, would I have suddenly transformed your laptop into something other than a "computer?"

I guess one of the primary differences for me is the ease of executing arbitrary code.

My laptop has a keyboard that I can use to type in commands/code/whatever. It also has an optical drive that I can use to load software. It has USB ports that I can use to load software off a USB key, or connect another CD-ROM or floppy drive or whatever.

The iPhone has a touchscreen and little else. If I want to load software on it I have to go through their official channels, or jailbreak my phone. If I want to write my own software for it, it requires a second device to do the programming and then upload it to the phone.

Similarly, the PLCs that control the heating and air conditioning in my building are most certainly computers in the technical sense. They're fully functional and can be programmed to do pretty much anything I want them to. But I have to connect external devices to them in order to do that... I have to plug in a laptop with a serial cable if I want to actually do anything to them.

My Cisco routers are also pretty much computers in the technical sense. And they've got USB ports I can use to store/load software. But again I have to connect another machine if I want to do anything with them. Otherwise they just do their job, day in and day out, like any other appliance.

I guess I'm not really debating the functionality of the iPhone. It certainly is a computer in any technical sense of the word. But there are connotations to the word "computer" that just don't match an iPhone.

Re:Case in point

[Combatso]

Note that the iPhone has more than just a "processor [that] can run arbitrary code" -- it has a CPU, memory, a general user interface, and could, in the absence of deliberate software restrictions on the part of Apple, be used as a small mobile computer (which happens to have the ability to connect to a cell phone network). This is not as extreme as running NetBSD on a toaster, or repurposing a car's microcontrollers for some other task -- the iPhone has all the hardware needed to be used for general consumer-grade computing, albeit in a pocket sized form factor.

I understand all that.

And the same could easily be said of many other smartphones out there.

But I wouldn't actually call any of them a computer.

Computer: a machine for performing calculations automatically

so yes, all smartphones are computers.. so is the ECU in the car you speak of..

i think your confusing the word "computer" with "user workstation"

Re:Case in point

[betterunixthanunix]

"But there are connotations to the word "computer" that just don't match an iPhone."

Which are not a result of the iPhone's design, but a result of the proprietary software that the iPhone ships with. All I see here is Apple trying to reshape the way people think about mobile computing, by removing capabilities and taking control of those devices -- and the fact that people think there is something wrong with using the word "computer" to describe the iPhone shows that Apple's tactics are working. I am not blaming you here, and you are certainly not alone, but it is very troubling for me that Apple (and to a great extent, other smartphone manufacturers) is so successful at dividing up the world like that.

There is no reason for the connotations of the word "computer" to be inapplicable to an iPhone. Really, the software is creating that situation, and Apple could, overnight, fix that problem, although I doubt they will (not with Jobs running the show)...

Re:Case in point

[AHuxley]

We can have flash, java, a camera and broadcast anything we like from fashionable hardware running a real OS.
All we need now is a Downfall video of Hitler learning Android OS has been ported over to the iPhone.

Re:Case in point

[sayno2quat]

But I wouldn't actually call any of them a computer.

Well hello there, Steve Jobs.

Re:Case in point

[Rysc]

i think your confusing the word "computer" with "user workstation"

QFT.

My n900 has a keyboard and a USB port and lets me run arbitrary code. It's also a smartphone! The iPhone is no different: Its keyboard is software and not hardware, but it still runs arbitrary code. It's just the iPhone OS and associated software that refuses to *install* arbitrary code.

Re:Case in point

[Americano]

Gotta be honest man, they seem to be doing a pretty bang-up job of "matching up to Android" even with all those restrictions you cite.

Re:Case in point

[jedidiah]

Nintendo never pretended to be in the computer business.

OTOH, Apple fanboys get their panties in a bunch when you call the iPad an overgrown iPod.

Clearly Apple and it's lackeys want the line to be blurred. Admitting the device is a souped up DS would make it much less attractive.

Re:Case in point

[jedidiah]

The Mega-iphone already has accomodations to use it as a proper desktop computer.

The only thing keeping the Mega-iphone from being used exactly like a Mac Mini is some artificial software restrictions.

If it's ports were standard, you could hook it up to the same peripherals that your Mac Mini or your PC uses.

Re:Case in point

[Anonymous Coward]

Since you seem to be this thread's expert on the topic, perhaps you can answer this simple question: Why do you approve of the significantly stricter controls and higher development that Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony place on their Wii, XBox, and PS developers, but hold Apple to a different standard for their consumer electronics device?

Interestingly, I didn't notice the parent mention that he was OK with any of those companies practices either. But hey, why let that stop you from looking like an idiot.

Re:Case in point

[Anonymous Coward]

At what point did anyone say they approve of restrictions on other computing systems? Who is holding Apple to a different standard? We all have the same things to say about Nintendo, Sony, and every other company that actively works to restrict the users of their devices.

So most commenters here do NOT own a game console of any sort?

You saying that your monetary support of the exact development model that you are criticizing Apple for using doesn't make you a hypocrite?

"Do as I say, not as I do."

Re:Case in point

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not Steve Jobs, it's Roger Ebert!

Re:Case in point

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Because traditionally, specialized devices do very well in the mobile field. MP3 Players, game consoles, etc. Generalized devices don't. There's a reason why Palm's circling the drain and Windows Mobile took a knee in the ghoolies when the iPhone came out.

Re:Case in point

[Anonymous Coward]

As Alan Cooper wrote in "The Inmates Are Running the Asylum,"

Q: What do you get when you cross a computer with a camera?
A: You get a computer.

"Thirty years ago, my first camera, a 35mm Pentax Model H, had a small battery in it that powered the light meter. Like a wristwatch battery, I merely swapped in a new one every couple of years.

"Fifteen years ago, my first electronic camera, a 35mm Canon T70, used two AA batteries to power its rather simple exposure computer and its automated film drive. It had a simple On/Off switch, so that the batteries wouldn't wear down needlessly.

"Five years ago, my filmless Logitech, a first-generation digital camera, had a similar On/Off switch, but this time it had the smarts of a rudimentary computer inside it. So if I forgot to turn it off, it automatically shut down after one minute of inactivity. Neat.

"My newest camera, a Nikon CoolPix 900, is a third-generation digital camera and the smartest yet. In fact, it has a full-blown computer that displays a Windows-like hourglass while it 'boots up.' Like some mutant fish with extra heads, its On/Off switch has now grown to have FOUR settings: Off/ARec/MRec/Play. 'ARec' means 'automatic record' and 'MRec' means 'manual record.' As far as I can tell, there is no difference. There is no 'on' setting, and none of my friends can figure out how to turn it on without a lengthy explanation.

"The new camera is very power-hungry, and its engineers thoughtfully provided it with a sophisticated computer program that manages the consumption of battery power. A typical scenario goes like this: I turn the evil off/etc. switch to 'MRec,' wait about seven long seconds for the camera to boot up, then point it at my subject. I aim the camera and zoom in to properly frame the image. Just as I'm about to press the shutter button, the camera suddenly realizes that simultaneously running the zoom, charging the flash, and energizing the display has caused it to run out of power. In self-defense, it suspends its ability to actually take pictures. But I don't know that because I'm looking through the viewfinder, waving my arms, and saying 'Smile' and pressing the shutter button. The computer detects the button-press, but it simply cannot obey. In a misguided effort to help out, the power management program instantly takes over and makes an executive decision: shed load. It shuts down the power-greedy LCD video display.

"I look at the camera quizzically, wondering why it didn't take the picture, shrug my shoulders, and let my arm holding the camera drop to my side. But as soon as the LCD is turned off, there is more battery power available for other systems. The power management program senses this increase and realizes that NOW it has enough electricity to take pictures. It now returns control to the camera program, which is waiting patiently to process the command it received when I pressed the shutter button, and it takes a nicely auto-focused, well-exposed, high-resolution digital picture of my kneecap."

Re:Case in point

[YodaYid]

Right - Nintendo doesn't even *pretend* to be an open platform. So they're better, right? :-P

Re:Case in point

[Jake Griffin]

all those people who say the iPhone/iPad is not a computer because things like this are "impossible"

I don't think it's the Apple fanbois who are saying that...

Re:Case in point

[Jake Griffin]

Just because those companies don't provide an IDEAL experience doesn't mean that someone who disagrees with them would not still want to purchase their products. All that is required for a person to purchase a product is for the perceived gain to be greater than or equal to the cost. Someone may think that the XBox or Wii or whatever is worth the price that it is set at now, but STILL think that it would be better if it were a more open platform. Do you disagree with any of the policies of any of the politicians in your respective country? If so, then why don't you move? On a someone related note, as far as Sony is concerned, someone may have purchased the PS3 while it was still pretty "open" (you could install Linux or whatever if you wanted to) and now Sony is taking away their rights with the crappy stuff they are doing now.

Re:Case in point

[Jake Griffin]

Note that the iPhone has more than just a "processor [that] can run arbitrary code" -- it has a CPU, memory, a general user interface, and could, in the absence of deliberate software restrictions on the part of Apple, be used as a small mobile computer (which happens to have the ability to connect to a cell phone network). This is not as extreme as running NetBSD on a toaster, or repurposing a car's microcontrollers for some other task -- the iPhone has all the hardware needed to be used for general consumer-grade computing, albeit in a pocket sized form factor.

So, if I stuffed an iPhone under my couch cushion, then now my couch "has all the hardware needed to be used for general consumer-grade computing" and it is a computer too! Awesome!

Just having the hardware doesn't make it a computer.

Re:Case in point

[node 3]

Not calling an iPhone a computer is insane. It runs OS X, has a general purpose user interface, runs general purpose third party apps.

The chief Slashdot complaint, which is the single App Store source for apps, is not enough to move the iPhone out of computer status. It takes something like TiVo, where Linux is simply there to run a single app, or AppleTV, where it's Mac OS X that runs a single app. These things are appliances with embedded-type OS's.

Re:Case in point

[Anonymous Coward]

your caMera haS windowS inStalled? aweSoMe!

Re:Case in point

[exomondo]

Note that the iPhone has more than just a "processor [that] can run arbitrary code" -- it has a CPU, memory, a general user interface, and could, in the absence of deliberate software restrictions on the part of Apple, be used as a small mobile computer (which happens to have the ability to connect to a cell phone network).

You mean like just about every other smartphone on the market? A particularly good example being nokia's n900.

Re:Case in point

[mjwx]

Why do you approve of the significantly stricter controls and higher development that Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony place on their Wii, XBox, and PS developers, but hold Apple to a different standard for their consumer electronics device?

Where did the GP say that.

You're projecting again. For the record I deride Apple, Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft, for their restrictive policies. However as a PC gamer the inadequacies of consoles are not my concern.

Re:Case in point

[perryizgr8]

your n900 can also use bluetooth keyboards!!!
i was quite surprised/pleased to see that shit!
i am currently saving up for the next maemo phone^H^H^H^H^Hmobile computer!

Re:Case in point

[perryizgr8]

...wait about seven long seconds for the camera to boot up...

man you sure bought a shitty camera. i have canon's poweshot a480 or some such, it was the cheapest i could find. the time between pressing the power button and the recorded picture displaying on the screen is ~4 seconds for without flash and ~6 seconds with flash.

Re:Case in point

[perryizgr8]

n900 actually has so much hardware that it is obscene. 32 gb storage? 1gb ram? discreet graphics with opengl acceleration? i mean wtf??

Re:Case in point

[exomondo]

Why do you approve of the significantly stricter controls and higher development that Nintendo, Microsoft, and Sony place on their Wii, XBox, and PS developers, but hold Apple to a different standard for their consumer electronics device?

What stricter controls do those companies exercise over their platforms? I haven't seen any of them telling developers what languages they must write their code in, telling them they can't use intermediate abstraction layers, etc...

Re:Case in point

[Anonymous Coward]

You are aware that bluetooth keyboards exist? Not being familiar with the iPhone itself, if it has a tv-out function like the nokia smartphones, it's just as much a computer, or more, as the old C64 was, even though it didn't have any "optical storage" or even harddrive or flashmemory for that matter. And are you telling me you can't connect your iPhone with some micro USB connector to your computer to sync it etc? Otherwise, micro USB -> USB hub, and connect anything you want. The rest is software.

Android ???

[artg]

.. There's an app for thet !

Re:Android ???

[Anonymous Coward]

You're confused, actually this is more due to Android's capabilities and its Linux roots rather than Apple's openness ;)

Good, I don't have to learn Objective C now

[physburn]

but is apple going let me use it, and will there be any installed user base? Not appearing or not found in the App store, would stump me from wanting to developing there to.

Re:Good, I don't have to learn Objective C now

[betterunixthanunix]

Note that is was done on an older iPhone; my guess is that the next generation iPhone will be even more restricted and prevent this sort of installation.

Re:Good, I don't have to learn Objective C now

[Anonymous Coward]

Objective C and English : two things you didn't learn.

Re:Good, I don't have to learn Objective C now

[jedidiah]

Since it's just another ARM, all you really need is driver support for the "peripheral" bits.

Running Android on this thing should be conceptually little different than running Ubuntu on a mini. The user base is not defined by how many people run Ubuntu on minis, but how many people run Ubuntu on x86 in general.

Running a Revo with an nv9400 is pretty much the same as running a Mac with one.

Re:Good, I don't have to learn Objective C now

[Anonymous Coward]

Objective C is a tiny tiny Smalltalk-style shim of OOP on top of C, it is not like you're learning a terribly exotic language or something **really** difficult there. Learning the Frameworks is where the time and effort comes in and that won't be easier in another language, but the Frameworks have the advantage of being quite nicely done overall, pretty clean and logically developed.

And Android, well ... you can compile libraries to ARM native code, but at the end of the day, you'll need to use Java. And no one could pay me to deal with a Java framework ever again.

Re:Good, I don't have to learn Objective C now

[Americano]

My speculation:

1) "Is apple going to let me use it:" Sure, you can use it. You'll void your warranty, but once you've bought the hardware, if you want to smash it with a hammer or load something else on it, they're not going to waste time and effort chasing you down.

2) "Will there be any installed user base?" I predict this will be wildly popular among the couple thousand android enthusiasts who would bother to purchase an iphone. In short, "not really".

Re:Good, I don't have to learn Objective C now

[Jake Griffin]

1) "Is apple going to let me use it:" Sure, you can use it. You'll void your warranty, but once you've bought the hardware, if you want to smash it with a hammer or load something else on it, they're not going to waste time and effort chasing you down.

They may not chase you down for using it, but they may block you from using it in the first place.

Re:Good, I don't have to learn Objective C now

[Americano]

Sure, nobody wants root exploits in their software, and that's what's required to jailbreak an iPhone. If you're concerned about having the ability to update your firmware, I'd submit that the iPhone and jailbreaking it so you can run Android probably aren't the best means for accomplishing your goal of having a completely open phone that you can do whatever you want with.

Re:Good, I don't have to learn Objective C now

[Jake Griffin]

Yes, I would agree with you. Just get an android phone in the first place! Besides, the iPhone won't have the Home, Back, Menu, Talk, or End buttons or a trackball and almost every (if not every) android phone has the majority of these buttons, so I don't see how the iPhone could be used effectively with the Android OS.

Re:Good, I don't have to learn Objective C now

[aristotle-dude]

but is apple going let me use it, and will there be any installed user base? Not appearing or not found in the App store, would stump me from wanting to developing there to.

With an attitude like that, I don't see why anyone would want to hire you. If you were a professional developer with a professional attitude, you would not have a problem with learning another language. How do you think all of those .NET developer with years of experience learned C# in the first place? Through osmosis? Through magic?

They picked up some books, read magazines and started learning the language through trial and error.

The fastest way to become obsolete and redundant is to refuse to learn something new or to use the best tool for the job. I've posted before that the majority of languages that I have written code in for the past 10 years have been learned by me while on the job.

If you are afraid to learn Objective-C then I suggest that you turn in your geek card right now.

Re:Good, I don't have to learn Objective C now

[physburn]

No one does want to hire me. I'm 40, been programming all sorts of things in all sorts of languages. I learn LAMP in the 90s, then they go and change the P from Perl to PhP. I know both of course. If I learn Objective C, (the pryamids in Egypt), then I can have a Objective C (0 years), on my CV, great, I don't hired. 40 years with zero experience in a new subject, get sent to wall.

Re:Good, I don't have to learn Objective C now

[aristotle-dude]

No one does want to hire me. I'm 40, been programming all sorts of things in all sorts of languages. I learn LAMP in the 90s, then they go and change the P from Perl to PhP. I know both of course. If I learn Objective C, (the pryamids in Egypt), then I can have a Objective C (0 years), on my CV, great, I don't hired. 40 years with zero experience in a new subject, get sent to wall.

It sounds like the issue isn't Objective-C specifically but that your experience is with developing web pages and web apps exclusively not that there is anything wrong with that.

Where I work, developers will often switch from writing server-side app server code to web interface code to even native windows interfaces. I've also switched product teams several times and some of those teams use C# for some components, Java for others and Python. The choice of language depends on whether we are interfacing with our in house services (C#) or Third party servers (Java, Python).

If you had any experience with writing web services in a language like Java, then you could contribute to a team that was writing a client-server app for the iPhone on the server side. Once you know Java, C# is easy to pick up or visa versa.

If you don't have experience with C/C++, Java or C# in an application or server context, learning Objective C will be difficult. So the language might not be the larger hurdle but rather a lack of experience with fat/thin/rich desktop clients.

Porn will find a way.

[leuk_he]

rule #35. If no porn is found of it, it will ...

Re:Porn will find a way.

[maxume]

It would be easier to just use websites.

Apple is currently only asserting silly levels of control over the app store, not over all data transfers.

Re:Porn will find a way.

[Anonymous Coward]

I like that you inserted the word "currently" in there. Very appropriate.

Re:Porn will find a way.

[Anonymous Coward]

Any porn site worth going to is flash. Those I've seen that tend to support iphone video have been horrible.

Re:Porn will find a way.

[Coder4Life]

which comes right after rule #34 http://xkcd.com/305/

Tell me how to do this!!:)

[Anonymous Coward]

This is so exciting! How how how!!:)

Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[hasdikarlsam]

The android OS eats memory like nobody's business. Using java will do that.

The iPhone has only 128MB of memory. Androids typically have at least twice that - the nexus one has four times as much.

'nuff said.

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[jo_ham]

The 3GS has 256Mb, but the 2G and 3G do only have 128Mb.

This will be nice even if only for google's turn by turn app. I love my iPhone, but I don;t love TomTom's ludicrous price for their app.

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[edmicman]

How does this manifest to the user? I've got a Droid and cant' say I notice any problems that I'd attribute to the OS eating memory. Granted I haven't really gone looking to see what the RAM footprint is, but everything I do runs smooth and stable. Am I missing something?

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[ender-]

The 3GS has 256Mb, but the 2G and 3G do only have 128Mb.

This will be nice even if only for google's turn by turn app. I love my iPhone, but I don;t love TomTom's ludicrous price for their app.

Well, you could always look into other options, such as Waze. It's not that great with home addresses but it works fine with most businesses I've tried. Plus it gives turn-by-turn voice directions, learns improved routes as you use it, and it's Open Source.

As with much OSS, it's not perfect, but it seems to be steadily improving since I've started using it.

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[Anonymous Coward]

i just used the free mapquest 4 mobile and its turn by turn worked fairly well.

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[L4t3r4lu5]

ALK Copilot Live 8 for iPhone - North America Other maps and locations available.

I run CoPilot on my Windows Mobile phone, having used dedicated TomTom units and TomTom software on my old WinMobile device. ALK beats it hands down, and is a good site cheaper.

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[Anonymous Coward]

Google's navigation is a wretched excuse for navigating while driving. At least dozen times so far this year it has given me completely wrong address locations in areas around the state. Since its places information is dependent on Google Maps, whose store locations are user-contributed, the information is more often wrong than useful. I went back to using my Garmin with 4 year old information because it's a better experience overall.

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[Anonymous Coward]

OS eats memory only if you don't know WTF you're doing with the phone. Load up something like "Advanced Task Killer" to kill open apps. Android offers true multi-tasking. The applications stay open in the background to allow quick switching and persistent stored information, much like any machine running *nix or Windows. You want to free up memory? Close some programs. L2Use device or STFU.

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[Xest]

Oh god, are we still at this stage?

I thought we'd got past the "OMG ITS USING RAM!!!111111" whines after that completely wrong and setup article drama about Windows RAM usage where multiple people pointed out that applications using RAM is better than RAM going unused.

Yes you're right that Android phones generally have more RAM, but they also often tend to have faster processors, more pixels on their screen and so forth too, but it doesn't mean it's a requirement of Android, it's just the benefit of the rapid evolution of Android phones vs. the once per year refresh of the iPhone. The iPhone is always behind on hardware apart from right at the start of each refresh, it's just the way Apple tend to do things.

RAM usage is not a bad thing, it's a good thing when used properly, as it is with the JVM and Dalvik- RAM usage is optimised so that RAM isn't just sat there unused and is actually being used for what it's there for.

Can we finally put to bed this ancient idea that RAM usage is inherently bad and that developers should ensure their applications use as little RAM as possible which would in fact make things worse because it'd generally mean more work is being done to keep RAM usage down, such as higher levels of paging from disk or use of compression and so forth?

RAM is cheap now, we can afford plenty of it, and we can afford to use it, the idea that having less RAM and having as much of it as possible sat unused meaning there's more paging from disk and more CPU cycles being used on data compression is ludicrous. It's not like the bad developers argument holds much weight nowadays even, RAM is cheap, it's better to use as much of that as possible than it is to try and shrink your RAM footprint at the expense of more expensive processor cycles.

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[jo_ham]

The CoPilot app for the UK is £27.99 ($43), which is much cheaper than TomTom's app (£60 - $92), but I still need an in-car mount, specifically for keeping the battery topped up and TomTom's one is the best but is a further £90 which is just crazy.

I think I may end up just finding a TomTom satnav separately, which comes with a mount and a touch screen, and a case, and a while set of hardware for less than the iPhone mount on its own. It's fucking stupid!

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[L4t3r4lu5]

That's fair; My Touch Diamond 2 fits neatly under the lip of the recessed clock display (top centre of dashboard) with a charging cable from the in-car USB socket. I can't play music from the phone at the same time, as CoPilot map data is from the card yet the car requires exclusive access to it as removable media. Still, battery lasts a day running satnav so I don't need it plugged in all of the time.

If you want a car mount, try Brodit ProClip - I've not used them, but the folks at xda-developers with them all swear by them. A little expensive, but less than the TomTom unit (£50 for fully adjustable version)

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[AndrewNeo]

Unfortunately you won't get it, because having Google Maps requires a Google-branded Android device, which an iPhone is not.

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[AndrewNeo]

No, they're just whining because they probably have a G1 with not enough RAM in the first place. Android kills processes when memory is needed, it's not like WinMo where all the apps stay open. I have a Droid and haven't had any memory-related problems either, and I use my phone quite a lot.

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[jo_ham]

I like the look of those, although the tell tale mount would have to live on display in the car permanently, so even if I always take my phone with me (which I would) the fact that the holder is on display invites someone to break in and look in the glove box. Even without losing anything that would be annoying!

I think a suction mount would be a better option, with a cloth to wipe off the screen marks!

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[GweeDo]

There are Android devices with only 128MB of RAM that to this day work very well. A great example is the Droid Eris from Verizon. I just upgraded a friends to the leaked 2.1 update and it actually runs smoother than it did on the 1.5 release. Does Google Naz and more just fine with Sense UI running.

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[ArcCoyote]

Try Mapquest Mobile for the iPhone.

The features are limited, but the turn-by-turn is dead on. It even dips the music volume while announcing.

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[andrew_mike]

Not true. The Droid Eris, like all variants of the HTC Hero, has 288 MB of RAM. This is more than, say, the Motorola Droid, which only has 256 MB of RAM. Given that the Droid was more or less designed to run Android 2, I can see how the Droid Eris can run it smoothly.

There are very few Android phones that have 128 MB of RAM; even the Dream/G1 has 192 MB. The only Android phones I've seen that have 128 MB of RAM have been the Chinese knockoff phones one occasionally finds on Engadget. Like this one.

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[BitZtream]

Yes, and now that I'm in the Dominican Republic instead of America, I would have spent about 8 times the price of the TomTom app just to get to the hotel from the airport in data charges to use the Google app being that it literally cost $20/MB for me to get data.

So awesome, you got a free app ... guess what, the iPhone also has a free google maps app, it doesn't do turn by turn so you when there. Either way, you're data required app is going to suck ass pretty much anywhere you actually need to use it.

TomTom's app is over priced and over rated, but it works in far more places than Googles can be useful, regardless of which device you use it on.

So good for you, you have a turn by turn app... and good for me, cause so do I, and the price of the app doesn't really bother me since its a fraction of the cost of the ridiculously priced phone itself.

You need some perspective and less fanboy.

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[BitZtream]

Then why the hell do they feel so god damn laggy? Why am I always waiting on the UI to catch up to me?

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[BitZtream]

I'll fully admit I'm an iPhone fanboy ... but I have yet to see any Android phone that 'worked well' unless by worked well you mean laggy, slow, feels like its more bloated than a 40 year old on the rag.

Perhaps I've only experienced the shitty versions of android and theres some mysterious not shitty version I haven't seen yet, but it certainly isn't what comes on any phone I've seen yet.

Perhaps you Android lovers have just been using Windows too long and aren't really aware that UI's don't have to suck ass?

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[Edzilla2000]

Of course, anybody who went through the trouble of installing an alternate bootloader for his iphone is definitely not going to be able to find the .apk file needed to install google maps on his phone... Right...

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[jo_ham]

I'm sorry, if you wander anywhere near a point, please spit it out.

What are you saying? That somehow I'm a fanboy because there's the possibility that (for free) I can add a turn-by-turn app to a phone I already own, using an unlimited data service that I already pay for?

I do the vast majority of my driving in the UK, covered by the 3G service I already pay for. On the offchance I go to the Dominican Republic, I'll print off a map. "Anywhere I actually need to use it" is "anywhere in the UK wider than about 40 miles from my house". In that case, my data charges are free (as in, already paid for by my phone contract).

Shock horror, sometimes people have different circumstances to you!

If I was going to buy a turn-by-turn with the maps already on it, I would just buy a standalone TomTom device - they cost about £50 here now, and come with charger, car mount and carry case. So for less than the price of the iPhone app, I get an actual touch screen sat nav with car mount and charger cable.

Incidentally, my iPhone wasn't "ridiculously priced" it was free on my contract, which I was paying anyway at the same rate as the old phone I was using. So, my contract didn't go up in price and I got a free iPhone. I know that technically it was not free and it was subsidised by the contract, but it was money I was paying anyway for phone service.

Hang on, what are you accusing me of being a fanboy of again? Google or Apple?

I just tried to parse your post again and... it's not really all that clear.

My "perspective" is that a turn by turn app is a luxury I can get by without, but if I can get a chance to test one out for nothing, then why not. Useful, but not essential.

Re:Neat hack, but ultimately useless

[Anonymous Coward]

NDrive - UK and Ireland is well worth a look as it's on special offer for £9.99. It's supports 7-digit postcodes, turn-by-turn voice navigation and the map view is pretty clear. It's not quite as slick as TomTom but it's plenty good enough and worth having as a solution in your pocket.

At some point I'm hoping there will be a free Google solution for it, so it's not worth spending a fortune on anything at the moment. The TomTom iPhone app price is ridiculous anyway, and costs as much as a stand-alone unit, and they pretty much expect you to spend another £120 for the cradle on top of that. No thanks.

Best headline ever!

[vvaduva]

I think the headline is in itself better than the substance of the story! Is Jobs punching holes in the walls now?

Re:Best headline ever!

[Abstrackt]

I think the headline is in itself better than the substance of the story! Is Jobs punching holes in the walls now?

I love that this headline came less than a day after the headline about Steve Jobs recommending Android for porn.

Re:Best headline ever!

[AHuxley]

Downfall clip in ....

Re:Best headline ever!

[leamanc]

Jobs couldn't care less, because this will appeal only to the hacker elite IF and WHEN it makes it out into the wild. Plus he's happy you already paid for his shiny toy.

Re:Best headline ever!

[Anonymous Coward]

If Stevie-boy doesn't care what you run on your iPhone, then why does he go to such lengths to prevent you from running whatever you want?

Don't forget the porn !!!

[DrYak]

and finally, a Jobs-approved way to get pron on your iPhone.
(He *did* say to get Android !)

Re:Don't forget the porn !!!

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think he meant for it to be put on one of HIS phones.

Re:Don't forget the porn !!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, thank you captn obvious.

Re:Don't forget the porn !!!

[ooshna]

Wow thanks for pointing out how he missed the point.

Re:Don't forget the porn !!!

[HermMunster]

Funny comment. Got me chuckling.

I can appreciate what the guy did. It takes some skills to make that happen.

Re:Don't forget the porn !!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow thanks for... not contributing anything.

Re:Don't forget the porn !!!

[Hurricane78]

But he did *think* for *you* to become his android. ;)

(Turned out pretty well for him, so far...)

Re:Don't forget the porn !!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Ditto...

Yessiree!

[itsdapead]

Apple's low-cost hardware with its wide range of options and standard interfaces teamed up with Android's consistent, carefully designed user interface experience, dazzling speed and frugal memory use.

Truly a marriage made in heaven.

Re:Yessiree!

[hawkeyeMI]

Tip to moderators. This is a joke. Not sure why this is modded insightful.

Re:Yessiree!

[Savage-Rabbit]

Tip to moderators. This is a joke. Not sure why this is modded insightful.

From the /. FAQ: Note that being moderated Funny doesn't help your karma. You have to be smart, not just a smart-ass.

Re:Yessiree!

[Anonymous Coward]

Please do not tip moderators. They're already paid enough.

Re:Yessiree!

[operagost]

It's like a DIE fighter for your pocket.

Re:Yessiree!

[Richy_T]

Tip to Alanis, it's also a genuine example of irony.

Re:Yessiree!

[Sir_Lewk]

There is often insight in comedy. His post, dripping in sarcasm, makes a pretty good point. Communication isn't all just in the dictionary meaning of the words.

Re:Yessiree!

[hawkeyeMI]

Fair enough! I'll stop backseat moderating. :)

Re:Yessiree!

[Anonymous Coward]

They're trying to be nice to you, (no karma credit if you're modded 'funny')
Don't worry, we got the joke.

Re:Yessiree!

[the_humeister]

That's why there's "underrated." If mods would use this more often, it'd be less confusing.

Re:Yessiree!

[itsdapead]

Note that being moderated Funny doesn't help your karma.

Karma: Excellent

Forget Karma, its the "Comedian" Achievement points that I crave.

For the record, I have both an iPod Touch and an Android phone. Incredibly, both have their pros and cons - I'd rave enthusiastically about Android if I'd never used an iProduct.

Re:Yessiree!

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be new here. Lately criticism of Apple will get you insightful. It doesn't even have to be intelligent criticism. ("Apple $ucks") is about all you need.

Re:Yessiree!

[Bakkster]

Intelligent criticisms of things like Apple, Google, Linux, etc. will still result in the fury of downmods.

Only if you sound like a douchebag when you say it.

Re:Yessiree!

[Sleepy]

Karma doesn't seem to affect ANYTHING unless it is negative. My KArma's been "50" (or "Excellent") for years, and it's been a long long time since I was asked to moderate or metamoderate. I think that depends on how frequently you post matters more (which is sad because that inversely affects the quality of discussion if there's a million "me too" responses).

Re:Yessiree!

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple's low-cost hardware with its wide range of options and standard interfaces teamed up with Android's consistent, carefully designed user interface experience, dazzling speed and frugal memory use.

Truly a marriage made in heaven.

yay! i think....i'm no geek buts sounds neato

Re:Yessiree!

[Barret7SC]

I get asked to moderate all the time, and I almost NEVER post.
It's all decided by magic!

Re:Yessiree!

[dumael]

Strange. Mine's "Positive" and i'm swimming in mod points. Even when I don't use them.

Re:Yessiree!

[Hurricane78]

Sadly, being smart doesn’t matter if you divert from the /. group-think or mention Apple/Jobs/iAnything in any blasphemous way.
See my sig for more insight.

Re:Yessiree!

[The End Of Days]

After a series of moderation experiments under different usernames, I've come to the conclusion that the fastest way to lose mod privileges is to downmod someone who works for Slashdot. Maybe you did that?

Re:Yessiree!

[billcopc]

s/enough/too much/

Re:Yessiree!

[tattood]

inversely affects the quality of discussion if there's a million "me too" responses

I agree

Re:Yessiree!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sadly, being smart doesn't matter if you divert from the /. group-think or mention Apple/Jobs/iAnything in any blasphemous way.

I think the word you were looking for there is "diverge", not "divert".

Re:Yessiree!

[BitZtream]

And that changes the point how exactly?

Re:Yessiree!

[Anonymous Coward]

And that changes the point how exactly?

Top spell it out for you word for word: Modding funny comments as insightful is a way of ensuring that people who are being smart asses still get karma.

Its iPhone OS 4.0!

[cb95amc]

So this is how they are planning on introducing multitasking!

call me when apple approves it

[StripedCow]

Even if you don't need to jailbreak the device to run it, Apple probably doesn't approve it and will block it in their upcoming firmware version, or in the next-generation iphones.

Until apple shows serious intentions to lower their absurd level of control, I'm not going to buy an iphone, nor develop for it.

Sigh, why can't hardware makers these days just do that: make hardware?

Re:call me when apple approves it

[betterunixthanunix]

It is more profitable to control your customers and railroad them into using only the applications you approve (and turn a profit on). Apple is not in business to bring computers into the world (not anymore), they are in business to increase their profits (it would be "terrible" if they sacrificed a chance to turn even higher profits), and if that means mistreating everyone else, then that is how it will be.

Re:call me when apple approves it

[mswhippingboy]

block it in their upcoming firmware version

Why would you need to upgrade to later firmware versions if you're running Android on your iPhone? Seems to me you would only want to upgrade to later Android versions.

...nor develop for it.

The point your're missing is that you WON'T have to develop for the iPhone. You can develop for Android and you apps will work on all Android phones as well as iPhone that have this installed.

Sigh, why can't hardware makers these days just do that: make hardware?

It won't be long before the differences in hardware between Apples products and Droid based products will be minimal. At that point Droid phones will have a distinct advantage in being able to do things Apple can't, if simply because Droid phones won't have all the restrictions that Apples products do.

Re:call me when apple approves it

[rwa2]

For all of their "think different" ads, Apple is a very traditional vertically-integrated engineering firm... like the old "big iron" unixes: Cray, SGI, SUN, IBM, where they sold the entire platform: hardware, software, custom interfaces, etc.

For all the Microsoft-bashing we do around here, they were really the ones that separated hardware from software on the PC (and then Linux came around and offered the even more of the same).

But now we have vertically integrated smartphones again. And for all the Google vs. Microsoft that we do, Android is pretty much Google's effort at doing to the smartphone what Microsoft did to the PC.

So don't take your freedom of hardware abstraction for granted! But in the end, we pretty much know how this dance should turn out.... just look at what Cray, SGI, SUN, IBM are doing now :-P

Apple will probably always be Apple (at least as long as Steve Jobs is around). Because he doesn't make products for us geeks, but for the rest of the people. He know his market well. And it is not us. So get over it and let the people have their stripped-down straightjacket internet devices.

Re:call me when apple approves it

[RivieraKid]

block it in their upcoming firmware version

Why would you need to upgrade to later firmware versions if you're running Android on your iPhone? Seems to me you would only want to upgrade to later Android versions.

That's how I read it at first, but I think the point is that new iPhones that come with new firmware preinstalled won't be able to take advantage...

Re:call me when apple approves it

[Anonymous Coward]

...or if the firmware fixes some low-level problem that cannot be addressed from software.

Re:call me when apple approves it

[betterunixthanunix]

"For all the Microsoft-bashing we do around here, they were really the ones that separated hardware from software on the PC"

Let's be clear here that Microsoft only did that on the PC. Throughout the 70s, a large amount of software for Unix was decoupled from the machine and the specific Unix running on the machine, and that software was exchanged between various hackers. The only innovation Microsoft introduced, in terms of computing, was to decouple software from hardware and then sell that software.

"Because he doesn't make products for us geeks, but for the rest of the people."

The great danger with this thinking is that it justifies the control Apple exerts over its customers, and encourages the idea that Apple's customers should be the general public. I really do not want to live in a world where a company like Apple, which we can now say has a history of censorship (including political censorship), exerts such a high level of control over the primary communication medium of the general public.

Re:call me when apple approves it

[Joce640k]

So, um, don't update the firmware....

Re:call me when apple approves it

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats not an option if the firmware fixes some low-level problem not reachable from software.

Also, the newer phones sold may have the new firmware version. So if my phone goes dead, I'll have to buy a new one, with restrictive firmware.

Re:call me when apple approves it

[Rysc]

Android is pretty much Google's effort at doing to the smartphone what Microsoft did to the PC.

Except that MS made it "Any hadware, Microsoft Windows"

Google is trying to make it "Any hardware, Any vendor's Android." There's a world of difference between those two positions.

Re:call me when apple approves it

[ColdWetDog]

Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

Re:call me when apple approves it

[markhb]

I really do not want to live in a world where a company like Apple... exerts such a high level of control over the primary communication medium of the general public.

From where I sit, the iPhone is very, very far from being the "primary communication medium of the general public". That title would probably fall to straight voice on non-smart cellphones, if not actual landlines. Most of the people I know have no desire to pay for either the more-expensive phones or the monthly data rates.

Re:call me when apple approves it

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

Sigh, why can't hardware makers these days just do that: make hardware?

Because then the OS suffers as a result.

The traditional PC paradigm of one vendor supplies your hardware, another your OS is kind of ridiculous when you think about quality control and usability. It means no device is ever really unique anymore.

Re:call me when apple approves it

[betterunixthanunix]

Computers are the primary mode of communication for the general public, and the iPhone is a computer, and sales of the iPhone have been growing. The GP's point was that Apple is marketing their devices to non-technical computer users, which is the overwhelming majority of people, at least here in America. My point was that I do not want to live in a world in which Apple, given its current behavior, is successful in that venture (and it seems likely that they will be, given their performance in the market; worse, other computer makers seem poised to copy their tactics).

Re:call me when apple approves it

[Americano]

Or - and this is just blue-sky brainstorming here, but indulge me for a second - you could buy a fucking Android phone in the first place.

Re:call me when apple approves it

[mswhippingboy]

...or if the firmware fixes some low-level problem that cannot be addressed from software.

firmware == software
While it's possible/likely that firmware upgrades will address problems, there is no reason these problems can't be fixed in the Android release as well. Essentially, much as jailbreaking places hooks into Apples official firmware distribution to allow additional functionality, the Android implementation replaces or augments a firmware file prior to being restored to the iPhone.

Re:call me when apple approves it

[mswhippingboy]

new iPhones that come with new firmware preinstalled won't be able to take advantage...

That's certainly possible, but this has been a cat and mouse game that the "jailbreak" community has been playing all along.

Every time Apple closes a hole in an effort to stop jailbreaks from working, the community responds with another break that gets around Apples "fixes". The latest round of this game (OS 3.1.3) took jailbreakers about two weeks to come out with a new "break".

Who knows how long this will go on, or who will win that game.

This issue (installing Android) is a little different however. Once you've installed Android (assuming you prefer it to iPhone OS), you won't need or want to install any more firmware upgrades from Apple. This will leave Apple impotent to stop users from doing as they please with their own phones.

Therefore, assuming Apple doesn't come out with pre-installed firmware that can't be broken (which despite many attempts they have not been able to accomplish so far), there will be no way for Apple to keep people from installing Android.

Of course, that doesn't mean that Apple won't resort to legal tactics to try and shut down the jailbreak community.

Re:call me when apple approves it

[nine-times]

Apple will probably always be Apple (at least as long as Steve Jobs is around).

Well, and I think it's fair to say that Apple plays a role. We could argue quite a lot about this, but the way I see it, Apple is able to make some pretty good stuff that works really well because of their strict control and vertical integration. Because of that, Apple gets to be the sort of high-end luxury brand of computers. Microsoft and other companies meanwhile do a good job at commodifying computing. FOSS helps to keep everyone honest by giving cheap and powerful options. In some ways, this arrangement is working well.

I know some people who want everything to be Linux, but I don't see the point in that. I'd like to see hardware manufacturers open up their specs and even lend a hand in writing drivers, I'd like to see companies like Dell and HP working harder to provide Linux support, and I'd like to see the patent system reformed. Other than that, I think we're doing ok. We've seen a bunch of moves toward greater openness in protocols and file formats, allowing for greater interoperability. Some of the proprietary guys are contributing to open source projects. Linux is getting to be quite a good desktop OS and mobile OS.

Would we have Android today if Apple hadn't released the iPhone? I kind of doubt it. I think Apple's tight little vertical integration produced a fancy product which made these manufacturers get off their asses and produce better phones. Steve being Steve, he produced a new vision for what a phone should be, and I Android seems to be following that vision.

Re:call me when apple approves it

[bgarcia]

Android is pretty much Google's effort at doing to the smartphone what Microsoft did to the PC.

Bingo.

I wish more people understood this. Google doesn't want to build or sell cell phones. They don't care if Nexus One becomes a best seller. All they want to do is force the smartphone platform into being useful, open, cheap, and fast. "Why would they do that?", do you ask? Because then more people are using the internet more of the time, and when they do they often use Google.

Google sometimes tries to make their own things better. But just as often, they try to make the entire internet better, and count on the "rising tide lifts all boats" aspect to help themselves and others.

Re:call me when apple approves it

[Anonymous Coward]

Admitted quibbles:

For all the Microsoft-bashing we do around here, they were really the ones that separated hardware from software on the PC

They benefited from it, but they didn't create the separation. No Prometheus points.

So get over it and let the people have their stripped-down straightjacket internet devices.

Um, no. I mean sure, I'm not going to knock them out of people's hands like a reformed drunk storming a bar, but there's nothing wrong with geeks not liking it, and saying so.

Re:call me when apple approves it

[BitZtream]

. Because he doesn't make products for us geeks, but for the rest of the people.

Really?

Thats pretty funny cause I don't know any geeks who run Linux any more, and I know only 2 people that have had Android phones, neither of which are geeks, one of which has already been returned.

I can think of atleast 10 MacBook Pro geeks that I know and hell, I saw at least 6 iPhones on the bus on the way to where I currently am.

I'm pretty sure you have absolutely no idea who uses what outside of your little imaginary Linux world in your mind.

Re:call me when apple approves it

[Anonymous Coward]

You accuse him of an imaginary world, yet you don't know geeks who use linux? Who the hell do you think run Gentoo?!

Re:call me when apple approves it

[don.g]

"the rest of the people" ... well, the rest of the people who have sufficiently high incomes to be able to afford iPhones/etc. In your western middle class bubble that may well be many people but it's not "the rest of the people" by a long shot.

Might as well

[Ctrl Alt De1337]

iPhone OS 4 will not be supported on the original iPhones, which have basically hit EOL. If you want any more new software features for one of those, they won't be coming from Apple.

Re:Might as well

[Anonymous Coward]

This is true with computers too. I have a PowerMac G5, which would be running OS 9 (ooh yeah), or like OS X 10.1, since the newer versions aren't supported. Instead, it's running Debian Linux, and it has been up for like 460 days now. (And it's doing useful work, I am renting it to a company to handle their email, etc.).

Re:Might as well

[Yvan256]

Unless I'm missing a tiny detail, recent PowerPC Macs are supported up to OS X 10.4. If my 12" Powerbook G4 can run it, I really don't know why your PowerMac G5 couldn't.

Re:Might as well

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a PowerMac G5, which would be running OS 9 (ooh yeah), or like OS X 10.1, since the newer versions aren't supported.

Liar. If you really owned a G5, you'd be aware that it can run Leopard. Even my old G4 (from 1999) can run that.

Re:Might as well

[djdavetrouble]

This freaking sucks. A phone that is 2 years old is EOL? Apple is insane with the upgrade profits. Case in point minidisplay port on all new laptops that you can't use
  your existing ACD with unless you buy a $29 converter. Lets just call that $1.00 of manufacturing costs, and $28 dollars of pure profit, times how many ACD's they have
already sold. Oh yeah, they used to give adaptors away with laptops (these are premium price points, reminder). I estimate apple has made at least 10 million dollars
from display adaptors alone.

Re:Might as well

[Yvan256]

Not only the first iPhone but the first iPod touch as well. Mine's going to be stuck at iPhone OS 3.

Re:Might as well

[Lumpy]

You are missing it... My spare iBook G4 is running 10.5

Works great and the better SMB support means less lockups when using older linux based NAS devices.

Re:Might as well

[Lumpy]

I DARE you to get Windows 7 edition special mobile release (or whatever they call it) for a Samsung blackjack 2. Hell I dare you to get a OS update for any phone that is 2 years old. Nokia stopped making updates for phones when they pass the 18 month mark unless there is a major nasty in symbian.

Windows flips the bird to lots of phone makers that use Windows mobile phones. I dont see you frothing at the mouth over them.

Re:Might as well

[Yvan256]

Oups, mixed 10.5 and 10.6 there.

Re:Might as well

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, I had one of the early Intel Macs, and those ran 10.4, which wasn't new at that point. But most software was quickly updated to use 10.5-only features, so 10.4 wouldn't provide a very nice experience (or proper security) these days.

Re:Might as well

[swb]

AFAIK iPhone OS 4 will be supported on 3G models but not with a full feature set, similar to the way 3 is supported on non-3G iPhones. I think it 3GS phones will be fully supported to the extent they have the hardware for feature support (ie, video chat would be a problem because there's no front-facing camera).

As for the rest of it, you're thinking about it wrong. Buyers of gen 1 iPhones either upgraded to 3GS models for the AT&T discount or they will/can upgrade to 4th Gen models when released. Most original 3G buyers can do the same since their contract periods are up, even though from a software support perspective they don't have to (for the most part).

And 1st Gen iPhones are functionally obsolete due to their small memory, slower CPU and lack of 3G data. Sorry, the device may "still work" but that's not really the right measure.

Is it a way to make money? Sure. But I think these devices are also targeted at people who either don't mind spending the money or who actively want/need the increased features/performance and who would upgrade every six months at full price regardless.

Re:Might as well

[Anonymous Coward]

You did miss a tiny detail: Mac OS X 10.5 is supported by most G4 - though not all- and all G5 PPC macs. GP was being a dolt and confusing 10.5 with 10.6 or a troll with no Mac experience.

Re:Might as well

[atamido]

I'm fairly certain that iPhone OS 4 will be supported on older iPhones, but that not all features will be active (like multi-tasking).

Re:Might as well

[perryizgr8]

and i'm glad. i'd hate to see something like win xp happen in the mobile market (or the desktop).

Finally,

[Anonymous Coward]

A compelling OS on a mobile Apple device.

Flash anyone?

[Anonymous Coward]

iPhone users can now get flash to run on their devices!

Re:Flash anyone?

[Anonymous Coward]

You might not believe it, what with all the complainers out there, but Android doesn't run flash either. Adobe has claimed they are bringing flash to the platform but there are rumors that they are having considerable trouble.

Re:Flash anyone?

[Sleuth]

Oh no! Could Apple be right?

Re:Flash anyone?

[billcopc]

You mean Adobe's incompetent coders can't figure out how to port their own stuff ? WHO'D-A THUNK IT!

Sluggish, buggy...

[mdm-adph]

...but still faster than running Android on an original G1.

Why?

[clvrmonkey]

Who tagged this with "why"? If the article had been "Android ported to toaster" everyone would have been jumping all over it. Say what you will about the pretentiousness of iphone users, it pales in comparison to holier-than-thou geeks.

Re:Why?

[Joe Tie.]

For me, personally I like it because it gives me a chance to play around with android on real hardware before making the switch away from apple. There's a lot of us 1st gen users whose contracts are just expiring. Time for us to make the choice on whether to continue supporting apple or not.

Re:Why?

[lordandmaker]

Wants multitasking *really* badly?

Re:Why?

[Jake Griffin]

Real hardware? Get a Nexus One. It beats the iPhone in nearly every way. Note that I am not bashing Apple, I love the iPhone's beautiful interface, I just don't like their locked down app store policies.

Does flash suck down battry fast? or is apple just

[Joe The Dragon]

Does flash suck down battry fast? or is apple just trying to lock out free flash games?

Re:This showes the POWER of slashdot!!!!

[teh31337one]

The guy's a slashdotter. Awesome. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yO2KQHkt4A&feature=player_embedded#t=06m30s

Refund for the iPhone OS.

[dmesg0]

Can all the iPhone owners who are forced to buy the OS bundled with the hardware demand a refund now? Why should they pay the Apple tax for the OS they don't need when a better alternative is free?

Re:Refund for the iPhone OS.

[mswhippingboy]

Same reason you pay the MS tax when you buy an off-the-shelf PC to run Linux on.

Re:Refund for the iPhone OS.

[icebraining]

That problem already existed if you bought a Mac computer.

Re:Refund for the iPhone OS.

[exomondo]

It isn't a tax, it's a fee, for the cost of the operating system that you bought with the computer. And you can get a refund for this if you don't want it.

"Maybe we can finally get Flash."

[Anonymous Coward]

From the site:

"Maybe we can finally get Flash."

Probably should've ported Maemo instead of Android then.

I download this through the App Store, right?

[JustinFreid]

This would be perfect on the iPhone 4 prototype.

Obligatory car analogy

[jason.sweet]

This is like buying a Lexus and replacing its interior with Chevy parts.

Re:Obligatory car analogy

[0xdeadbeef]

Yeah, a Corvette engine.

Re:Obligatory car analogy

[squiggleslash]

Well, maybe they just want the brakes to work.

Re:Obligatory car analogy

[Lumpy]

A lexus LFA would eat any corvette's lunch hard. plus the engine technology is 12X more advanced.

So why would I downgrade that car with a chevy corvette engine?

You want performance, use a ford engine out of the GT not the joke that comes in vettes.

Re:Obligatory car analogy

[MonsterTrimble]

Um... Yeah...

Lexus LFA - Projected production run for 2010: 500 Units, projected base cost:US$375,000
Chevy Corvette - 2009 Production: 16,956 Units, base cost: US$48,565

If you're going to weigh in, let's not use a super car vs a sports car, K?

Re:Obligatory car analogy

[0xdeadbeef]

Just because the iPod is the Toyota Camry of mp3 players doesn't mean the iPhone gets to be the most expensive thing Toyota sells. It's an LS 400, at most. Hell, the Lexus analogy itself is stretching things.

Re:Obligatory car analogy

[Anonymous Coward]

LS3, LS7, or LS9?

LS7 makes 505 horsepower, 475 ft-lbs of torque while weighing in under 400 pounds as an all-aluminum V8.

LS9 makes 620 horsepower, 595 ft-lbs of torque while weighing in under 480 pounds.

LS3 makes 424 horsepower, 418 ft-lbs of torque, while weighing in around 380 pounds.

The LFA's engine makes 560 horsepower (impressive) and 354 ft-lbs of torque. (Piss poor.)

Anybody with half an understanding in vehicular engineering knows that a broad powerband with an earlier onset of torque offers greater performance than high RPM with zero torque. Case in point, the Lexus LFA only ran a 7:30 around the Nurburgring, while both the Corvette Z06 and ZR-1 ran a 7:42 and 7:26 respectively. Both Corvettes were running on run-flat tires with hard tread, while the LFA's time was achieved on non-road-legal racing tires, according to several sources around the 'net. (Google is your friend.) Now quit fanboying over a relatively mediocre car. There's a reason that the quickest car to ever lap Top Gear's track uses the small-block Chevrolet V8. (Ultima GTR ran a 1:12.8 around the Top Gear track. The next fastest car was the Koenigsegg CXX, running a 1:17.6. The Lexus LFA is significantly slower than the CCX. The engine requires constant, high-dollar maintenance, and is still not nearly as good as a performer as the LSx series of engines, stock or modified.)

Next time you choose to fanboy, at least come bringing some facts.

Re:Obligatory car analogy

[Anonymous Coward]

So you picked the lowest price base model vette. the ones that has the crap engine?

Vette ZR1 starts at $120,000.00

The $48K corvette is like buying the 6 cyl economy camaro... All show no go.

it's like installing a yugo engine in a Lexus.

Re:Obligatory car analogy

[Anonymous Coward]

The Lexus was designed to work with only one pedal, and the Chevy with multiple pedals, so braking has to be done using the radio's volume controls.

Finally, it's the

[jitterman]

It's the year of Linux on the iPhone! Who needs desktops?! Pah!

Running Sluggish and Buggy?

[geordie_loz]

Slugish and Buggy, just like my actual android phone (HTC Magic, UK)

Re:Running Sluggish and Buggy?

[Xest]

Sounds like you have an issue with your handset. I have an HTC Magic in the UK too, I'm on Vodafone (afaik they're the only UK distributor of the Magic anyway?) and have neither found it sluggish nor buggy.

The only qualm I have with it is battery life- it only lasts 2 days, assuming I don't make more than a single phone call or two, but that seems par for the course for smart phones in general nowadays unfortunately. Even the likes of the Nexus One and the iPhone only have similar battery life and you really have to charge them each night if you can.

Re:Running Sluggish and Buggy?

[Lumpy]

No, there are some Nokia smartphones that give you 5 days at a time. My 5800 did that easily.

Re:Running Sluggish and Buggy?

[Mysticalfruit]

I've got an HTC Eris running Android and I've experienced non of this sluggish or buggy behavior. It gets ~3 days nominal use on a charge or 1.5 days if I'm constantly listing to music, etc.

I only wish I could say the same thing for my Blackberry Storm.

Re:Running Sluggish and Buggy?

[Gi0]

Debugger running on the backround as he mentions on the video...at least there's hope for the iPhone port.

Re:Running Sluggish and Buggy?

[Jake Griffin]

I've got a Nexus One and I easily get 2 days and sometimes 3 out of it. Unless I'm constantly listening to music, playing games, or using the GPS. You just have to make sure that Bluetooth, Wifi, and the GPS are turned off when you aren't using them.

Re:Running Sluggish and Buggy?

[BitZtream]

Really? Because thats the way every android phone I've seen acts?

What do you have to do to make it actually respond better than an old Tandy running Deskmate from 1986?

Re:Running Sluggish and Buggy?

[Xest]

Sounds like you're just trolling tbh, because Android phones certainly don't act like that in general, they usually perform better than most other handsets on the market, primarily because they're better specced. Certainly there's nothing wrong with the Android OS itself either in terms of performance.

You don't have to do anything to make them respond well, they work out the box. That's not to say you can't fuck them up by installing shitty apps of course, but that comes with the territory of having a largely open handset I guess.

Porn on the iPhone.

[jbssm]

So Steve was this what you were talking about when you said if you want porn get Android?

Why?

[tagbo]

I know. But really, Why?

I dub thee "hackeroid"

[Dr_Art]

Cool hack! I dub thee "hackeroid"! :-)

Re:I dub thee "hackeroid"

[Anonymous Coward]

iRoid.

Enough with the porn shit already. Keep it at home

[aristotle-dude]

You can do whatever freaky shit you want in the privacy of your own home on your home computer but if you look at porn on your phone in public then you deserve to be put on the sex offenders registry and spend some quality time with Bubba in lockup.

Nobody wants to see someone jerkin their gherkin in public places or on public transportation. Not even a taxi driver wants to see that.

Android review. It sucks but she still likes it...

[aristotle-dude]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9hYKuIyDYw

She thinks that "open source" somehow directly effects end users and that is makes up for slow boot time, a lag when switching to landscape keyboard, lag when typing on on screen keyboard, short battery life and gets too hot. Four hours of battery life is pathetic. Vibration is useless too? Sounds really awesome. I think that Android fanboi/girls are drinking the Koolaid and that Google has an RDF of their own.

BTW. iPhone OS 3.1.3 source code can be found here: http://www.opensource.apple.com/release/iphone-313/

I'm trying to figure out how it is better than the iPhone from that video.

No more Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Never Apple again. Really, I loved the freshness of the UI and hardware, until it became claustrophobic. Then Apple is as rigid as any 80s company selling UNIX. Good call.
Don't see why I should buy another iPhone, Macbook Pro or iPod again. Won't fall into the hype again.

Re:Does flash suck down battry fast? or is apple j

[Anonymous Coward]

Consider the number of free game apps on the iPhone (which Apple distributes and hosts at their own expense) and ask yourself why Apple would ever care if there were free Flash apps unless it was that mobile Flash sucked donkey balls on anything other than fairly decent PCs running Windows Vista and 7.

Try running Flash on Linux or a Mac and watch even the simplest Flash peg the CPU.

Adobe has a fantastic core of developers who have their great work on specific features wrapped by other code that would shame programmers who work for scanner and printer software companies. They can't even write proper installers or updaters, a problem solved a million times over in the FOSS and hobbiest communities!

Adobe has milked the Mac for decades, but has never been interested in doing much more than the bare minimum to port back from Windows versions. It's sad because Adobe used to be one of the best big software companies, now they suck with occasional flashes of brilliance and genius just to really depress you.

Incoming Apple sledge hammer!

[Ilsundal]

I seriously hope this guy doesn't get pwned like the poor Psystar people :P I can't imagine Apple appreciates anybody using their hardware openly anymore than they appreciate people using their software openly on PCs. I'll cross my fingers and see where this goes!

Re:Incoming Apple sledge hammer!

[exomondo]

that's different. the software license agreement prevents you using OSX on non-apple hardware, not only that they were re-selling it that way. here he is using software on the hardware he bought, nothing they can do about that.

Re:Android review. It sucks but she still likes it

[Areyoukiddingme]

It's a debug build for testing purposes. Debug builds are always rough on the hardware and less responsive. We have no idea how well it will run as a release build, or what the battery life might be.

Lack of vibration support is a device driver. As soon as they figure out which chip is in the iPhone to control vibration, somebody will write an Android driver for it. No big deal. (Or at least, no bigger of a deal than any of the other driver problems Linux has taken on.)

Relax. It's a hobby project to see what's possible, not to change your phone for you.

You were all wrong!!

[AmigaHeretic]

See the iPhone CAN multitask.

Re:Enough with the porn shit already. Keep it at h

[Americano]

+1, correct use of "jerkin the gherkin".

ARM boss pours cold water on Apple bid rumours aft

[Anonymous Coward]

Not happening

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/marketforceslive/2010/apr/22/armholdings-marketforces

Apple has not really cared about things like this

[SuperKendall]

Until apple shows serious intentions to lower their absurd level of control

Apple has been almost friendly to the jailbreaking scene - at least there are many steps Apple could have taken all along to make jailbreaking much harder. To date they have not done so.

People claim Jobs is upset that Android would run on an iPhone, but personally I think he's chortling with joy -because you can really compare the two OS'es on the same hardware and see which is more efficient and friendlier to use.

Plus let's say running Android on the iPhone really took off, what's the worst case - that tons more people buy iPhones? Boo Hoo goes Jobs, let me rub my eyes with the large wads of MONEY you have all just given me.

Implications for the iPod Touch..

[Maltese Falcon]

My first thought upon seeing this was that if Android is ported to the iPhone, it'll also run on an iPod touch, making it a very nice VoIP phone that should at least compete with the iPhone in power. do better once it's optimized and avoid AT&T voice and data plans. Of course, you can only use it in hot-spotted areas.

Re:Implications for the iPod Touch..

[GiMP]

You can run VoIP apps on the iPod Touch already, in theory. The problem is that the hardware and software are a bit limited. The iPod has a loud-speaker and no microphone, requiring a headset. Unfortunately, perhaps obviously, Apple does not provide the HSP profile for using a headset on the iPod, but you *can* use a wired headset. Arguably and unconfirmed, you might be able to add the missing profile via a jailbreak, which would be little different than running Android on the device anyway...

The primary things Android would offer, in regard to VoIP, would be support for the HSP profile and a wider choice of VoIP applications (especially if you can still retain the iPhone OS).

Re:Excellent port

[node 3]

Shh, geeks only care about bugs or crappy performance if it's not about their favorite system.

Evidence? Keep an eye on this post's mod score.

Re: narcissistic hissy-fit

[KharmaWidow]

Really? Seems like the people throwing the fit are all the Android fans with their egotism and inflated idea of their own importance. All you guys do is bitch about Apple day in and day out. Ironically, creating more brand awareness of Apple and Apple mind-share in the blogs. All the while burying Android stories. Rather than complaining about Apple you should be chatting about Android if Android were actually better. But the Android interface blows compared to the Apple OS as several reviews have demonstrated.

Way to go for 2G ?

[Rastignac]

iPhone2G will not have OS4 from Apple. Time to drop iPhoneOS ?

Re:Android review. It sucks but she still likes it

[cheesybagel]

That's a compiler, debugger, linker, and parts of the web browser. That is not even half the code. Where is the kernel, or drivers, or the GUI, or everything else. I also find it interesting that the license for everything but the linker is GPL/LGPL. Which means Apple did not begin the development, or probably even did most development.

Seriously?

[weston]

"Bundled-with?"

And here I'd thought I'd seen all of the facile Apple-Microsoft comparisons.

This isn't the PC OEM industry. There's one manufacturer, they make both the hardware and the software of the product, and they're essentially a single package. There's no OS "tax" on this device any more than there's a battery tax or a touchscreen tax or cellular radio tax.

Asked to metamod?

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't get "asked" to moderate (except maybe with that tip of the day type thing). You just go to metamod.pl and do it whenever you want to.

Incidentally, it helps you get mod points. But only if you're in the right range for them.

That's great and all...

[Tikkun]

... I'm glad the first generation iPhone can run Android now, but can it run Linux? ;)

Re:Android review. It sucks but she still likes it

[Edzilla2000]

Actually, the iphone also lags when switching to landscape. How many times have I seen an apple fanboy demonstrate how great their iphone was when switching to landscape while looking at pictures, only to have to move their wrist two or three times to actually get the thing to turn...

Re:Does flash suck down battry fast? or is apple j

[perryizgr8]

problem with flash video on mac is that apple does not expose the api required to hardware accelerate h264. so flash video on mac sucks. while windows has had its flash vids accelerated from ancient times. not actually adobe's fault.

Re:Android review. It sucks but she still likes it

[aristotle-dude]

It's a debug build for testing purposes. Debug builds are always rough on the hardware and less responsive. We have no idea how well it will run as a release build, or what the battery life might be.

Lack of vibration support is a device driver. As soon as they figure out which chip is in the iPhone to control vibration, somebody will write an Android driver for it.

You did not even bother to follow that link? No, because if you had, you would have seen that it was a video of the Droid Eris, not the hacked iPhone. That phone is running the production build, not the debug build. Excuses, excuses. Android fans have a million of them.

Re:Android review. It sucks but she still likes it

[aristotle-dude]

Actually, the iphone also lags when switching to landscape. How many times have I seen an apple fanboy demonstrate how great their iphone was when switching to landscape while looking at pictures, only to have to move their wrist two or three times to actually get the thing to turn...

The iPhone 3GS does not lag when typing which is what the reviewer was complaining about Android on the Eris. There is a second delay switching from portrait to landscape keyboard in the mail app while the Droid too a longer to switch. Switching without a keyboard on screen is about half a second on the iPhone. Android starts to lag badly after a while on production builds straight from the manufacturer.

Re:Android review. It sucks but she still likes it

[Edzilla2000]

Android starts to lag badly after a while on production builds straight from the manufacturer.

On a G1, yes, but on the droid (I own a milestone, the GSM european version of the droid), definitely not...

Re:Android review. It sucks but she still likes it

[aristotle-dude]

Android starts to lag badly after a while on production builds straight from the manufacturer.

On a G1, yes, but on the droid (I own a milestone, the GSM european version of the droid), definitely not...

Is Youtube blocked where you post from? The video I linked to was a review of the Droid Eris by a linux fangirl. It was not the G1. Perhaps you have an older build of Android without the bells and whistles and the Droid Eris comes with more eye candy?

Gods if you thin...shes on the subject line.

[owlstead]

k that subject lines that continue in the post are annoying, along comes a guy that fini

Dutch too, I'm ashamed.