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Seattle Hacker Catches Cops Who Hid Arrest Tapes
An anonymous reader writes "In 2008, the Seattle Police illegally arrested security consultant Eric Rachner for refusing to show ID. After Rachner filed a formal complaint, he was prosecuted for obstructing, and the police claimed that videos of the arrest were unavailable — until Rachner's research uncovered proof that the police had the videos all along." It's an interesting story of how he figured out how the system in use by Seattle police automatically tracks deletion, copying, or other uses of the recorded stream.
Shouldn't the officers in this case be charged with obstruction of justice?
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
The dream of cops, reactionaries, xenophobes, and fascist thugs everywhere...
What are the odds those cops got one of the few people left in their city who know their rights and have the means to defend them.
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Motherfucking pigs...
Not all cops are pigs, but these ones were.
A few bad apples making the other 1% look bad...
seriously, why do cops always circle the wagons to protect dishonest cops?
Actually, that's not what they said. They said they can no longer be obtained. They didn't say they were destroyed. They didn't say *who* could no longer obtain them. Are they saying "You can't obtain them" (because it's past 90 days and that's our policy) or "We can't obtain them"? (because they were destroyed). The language is intentionally unclear. They *implied* that the recordings had been destroyed, and that the police themselves could no longer obtain them, but that's not what they actually said.
Either way, this is a good lesson for those /.ers who maintain that you don't have to show a cop your ID in the U.S. when asked (that you don't need "papers" in the U.S.). That may *technically* be true, but it can still cost you a weekend in jail and a $3500 legal bill if you actually pull that shit with a real cop.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
ANY time the cops, spooks, politicians, corporations-- anybody, really-- claims to have "lost" the evidence, they are lying or they deliberately destroyed it. Like when the CIA, at the behest of Bush, just happened to lose hundreds of torture tapes after they'd been ordered by a court to preserve them. Like they did with much of the Abu Ghraib evidence.
Police in particular can NOT be trusted to police themselves. The few honest cops are often threatened by the rest. Rat on us and good luck when you call for backup...
It sounds like the cops got caught pretty red handed but I'm having a hard time buying that this douchebag was just politely refusing to show ID. They hit some guy in the head with some kinda nerf ball, which probably is no big deal but then heckled him to the point where he called 911. Now, the Capitol Hill is an area of seattle know for a large Gay community and Gay bashing hate crimes are far from uncommon there. He was also apparently drunk. The whole lot of them sound pretty belligerent in the video. Article seems a bit biased.
:)
Don't get me wrong, the cops should be made to answer for their actions here too, but let's be sure not to paint this guy as some Rosa Parks of drunken nerf golf. Besides, he sliced the shot.
meep
"Conspiracy to deprive a person of their civil rights under color of authority". That's good for a ten-year stretch in fort leavenworth, if you can get a federal prosecutor to pursue it.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I'm glad that he went after the SPD, and didn't back down until he exposed their deceipt.
Additionally, he and his companions should have been arrested for drunk and disorderly conduct, but not for refusing to ID himself. Oh, and the one that hit the other guy in the face with the foam ball should have been arrested for assault. They were all a bunch of hooligans, and a public nuisance.
So they spent months, thousands of dollars in defense, thousands in city funds all over the fact that some drunk tool refused to tell the cop who he was?
No, you moron. They spent that money because the police made an arrest under false pretenses, then tried to cover it up by lying about the presence of evidence.
Look at the Hans Reiser case, or the Terry Childs case. On Slashdot we see tons of support for them, claiming they couldn't have done it, are being railroaded, etc, etc. They get consideration that people in other professions don't. A circling of the wagons.
It seems to be human nature.
From the article:
Rachner didn't hack the police computers, but with attorney Stockmeyer's advice he spent several late nights starting in October poring line-by-line over technical aspects of the video and audio recording system. He examined the Houston-area manufacturer's contracts, specifications and procedures.
Rachner hit pay dirt when a procurement contract and system specs revealed that a computerized log is kept permanently on every video and audio recording, showing when anyone uploads it, flags it for retention, plays it, copies it or deletes it.
He also discovered recordings aren't regularly destroyed every 90 days, but are kept for a variety of reasons. While they can be destroyed after three months, that erasure isn't mandated."
I wonder if the police department lawyers are scrambling to get the procurement contract and system specs 'modified'.
Police Department: Damn Open Source Software!
Really. In the good old days they would have just beaten his ass silly.
Actually, if you RTFA, it wasn't him that hit someone in the face with the ball. Even the victim said he was only mad at the one person who did it, and it wasn't the subject of this article.
And he did really just refuse to identify himself and/or show his ID; it's all right on the recording in the linked article.
The issue here is that everyone is saying the cops are bigs, but in most jurisdictions, it is completely legal for a police officer involved in an investigation to ask an individual to identify him or herself. What is at issue is whether or not it is legal to arrest/detain someone ONLY for refusing to identify themselves if they are suspected of no other crime (the other issue here is that perhaps playing street golf/hockey is probably against some ordinance, but let's leave that aside).
This really isn't about "papers, please". It's about a law enforcement officer making a legitimate, legal request...not complying with an officer's legal request, even if you haven't yet done anything else wrong, is itself a crime in many jurisdictions. Unfortunately, it hasn't been (and still isn't) established whether or not and under what circumstances it is inappropriate in the State of Washington for a police officer to request an individual's ID.
I get a kick out of all the posts here laying into the cops. Typical, though, and not surprising.
And pretty soon you have no rights left to give away.
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This douchebag was wandering around with a group of thirty or so people, drunkenly smacking people in the face with foam golf balls and then heckling them. I'm not sying the cops were right, they weren't, but this guy is no hero.
If you read the article, it says one person hit a passerby. Not the guy in question here. In fact, it says he did not even resemble the one who had hit the passerby with the foam ball.
Reply to That ||
According to Wikipedia, Washington does not have a "stop and identify" statute. So, unless there's other relevant legislation, no. You don't.
If an officer of the law requests to see your ID, you must present it.
You are factually incorrect. You are not required to produce any form of ID on demand in the United States. The worst anyone can do is deny you entry or purchase, if it is based on ID or ID as proof of age/residency/etc/. The exception would be driving a motor vehicle on public roads, where you are required to be licensed and show proof on demand.
There is nothing to lobby your Representative about, because this isn't against any law.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
If an officer of the law requests to see your ID, you must present it.
[citation needed]
Reply to That ||
Even if its not required by law? Just always do what Officer Friendly demands.
Because they like to beat up 15 year old girls.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl67FmVRjYs
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/401779_schene28.html
http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2010/01/former_deputy_paul_schene_says.php
The Washington state supreme court says otherwise.
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
I'll condemn them heartily. They should be arrested if they're causing real problems and don't immediately respond to police presence by quieting the hell down and dispersing. But once the cops decide to start arresting people, they'd better be damned sure they follow the law - because when they don't, they further undermine their legitimacy.
nice job.
Bullshit. We don't do collective criminal responsibility here. Victim was only arrested for obstructing.
Obstructing arrests--when the only charge is obstructing--must be carefully screened by the prosecutor. Otherwise, there's a risk of enabling angry SELF-RIGHTEOUS cops. Jurors hate that shit and it gives cops with self-restraint a bad name.
That arrest stinks ten thousand universes away.
It is even worse in Northern Virginia
It is really interesting that these guys were doing something that was crazy enough to actually warrant an arrest. A group of drunken guys hitting a lone guy with a ball (even on accident), then sticking around (in a group!) to heckle him should be a slam dunk arrest. People get arrested and instantly convicted for less at Eagles games in Philly. How routine must civil rights violations in Seattle be for the police to casually mess this one up?
The police involved should be fired for violating this guy's rights, then fired again for being such bad police that they couldn't remember how to properly arrest drunken, rowdy people.
God I hope this translates into a new event (foam drunken golf) and a good discussion at DefCon or Toorcon (David Hulton also was tagged as a naughty monkey!)
Great work, this illustrates the huge gap in modern Law Enforcement and the failure to keep up with and understand the impact of new technology.....
Self Defense - A Human Right www.a-human-right.com
You are factually incorrect. You are not required to produce any form of ID on demand in the United States
You are also factually incorrect. "Stop and Identify" laws vary by state.
Have any of you posting listened to the audio? Especially the ones claiming they were a group of 'drunken douchebags'?
If you listen to the audio you'll notice that nobody was loud, obnoxious or incredibly rude. Eric sounds a bit curt, but he's defending his rights against an office who clearly is uniformed of the laws or has gotten too used to getting his way because he is a police office.
But honestly, I don't fault the officer either. He was as polite as can be expected and I believe he thought that he was in the right.
The this should have gone down, Eric gets arrested, police realize "Oh crap, you shouldn't have done that." Eric gets compensated for his attorney fees, the police officer gets sent to additional training and a memo is written to the rest of the department reminding them of how the laws ACTUALLY WORK.
That would have been justice, but we live in a society where everyone is out for blood for the most minor injustices and neither side is willing to say "oops, we screwed up."
Everything that happened afterward could have been avoided by simply saying "we were wrong, we're sorry" and then providing the necessary training to the police force so that they understand that citizens DO have the right to refuse to identify themselves.
Seriously, moron.
There is no legal requirement to identify yourself on demand in the state of Washington.
There are 24 states with stop-and-identify statutes. Washington is not one of them.
I went to High School with Eric. I thought he was a douchebag then, and I'm sure he's still a douchebag now. Don't read that as support of the police, 'cause it ain't. Just saying that sometimes only a douchebag has enough of a "F**k the World" spirit to get the job done...
---As my daddy used to tell me: "You gotta be smart before you can be a smartass."
Near the last "hole" a sliced shot hit a 22-year-old passerby in the face. The 1 ½-inch foam ball caused no harm other than a sting, but when the golfers laughed at and "heckled" the victim he called 9-1-1, the police report said. Seattle police responded in force.
Say what? Who calls 911 for that?! Im guessing that he didnt have to pay for eiter, talk about a waste of time and money.
Refusing to show ID is not illegal as Washington does not have a Stop and Identify statute: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify
This is not a "corrupt people seek out the profession" troll.
...and people will still make mistakes in the heat of the moment, because that's what it is, the heat of the moment. Sometimes it's because the situation is escalating fast, sometimes it's because there's somewhere else they have to be, but circumstances just aren't in cops' favor most of the time.
No, I mean...Where are you going to find better people? Who grows up wishing to be a police officer any more? You guys go on about how these people should be suspended or fired. Who the bloody hell is going to take their place?
They work in a high-edge profession that, in some ways, is kind of like some medical or military fields: You have to take care of a problem FAST, and mistakes are going to happen. That's a really shitty job. Their nerves are shot. And believe me, they would be way happier if there was more funding so they could have better people on the force, or more backup. But until awesome people start wishing to be cops again, until the profession starts paying better, we won't see any improvement...
its not as if the guy picked up the ball with his hand and threw it, he sliced it while playing golf. He is not Tiger Woods, he can't hit the guy with the ball at will, it was an accident, and EVERY single golf player expects as normal part of the game that they might be hit by a ball
Read the article. They were in the middle of Seattle, late at night, drunk from bar hopping, hitting a foam ball around in the streets. Actually, they were hitting the ball from bar to bar, drinking at each stop. They then went on to mock the guy who got hit. I don't walk around a city at night, heading home from a movie theatre, expecting to get hit in the face/head by a foam ball. I might expect to be gunned down and my kid growing up to be a rich insomniac vigilante.
If I were on a 'public' golf course, in the middle of the day, then no, I wouldn't be surprised if I got hit by a golf ball, though I would expect to hear 'fore' before getting hit.
Noted
I just thought it needed to be said.
"The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
Some people have them. Some value them more than others.
Blar.
You might think it an inconsequential 'freedom' that one doesn't have to identify themselves to law enforcement officers. You might think that convenience trumps standing up for one's freedom. Rachner didn't. I agree with his choice. "Papers, Please" is something my German relatives have told me about from personal experience.
Some people are just more willing than others to make sacrifices for their country and their countrymen.
Blar.
...is no excuse." That's what LEOs always love to throw in your face. It should be no different for them.
1. Douchebaggery is not a crime.
2. He was arrested illegally and the police acted to cover up evidence of that fact.
If you read the article (or if the person who made the article summary didn't write it in such a misleading manner) you'd know that he didn't 'hack' anything. He read the technical specifications for how the system works (by getting the documents from the systems manufacturer), found out that it kept a log of all transactions and requested the log. The log showed that the video had not been deleted, and the video was actually included WITH the log.
Here's a fact. The police will find ANYTHING to arrest and charge you if they feel they want to.
There are so many laws, and they know them more than us... and they have an army that will back them up no matter what, even when they're lying.
Not to to say that all cops are evil. They're not. But they do stick together, and soemtimes they stick together for what they think is the right reason... but they do it in wrong ways.
This is why privacy is important. Once the system has its eye on you.... you can easily become a victim of the system because they have too much power as it is.
No, you are a tool for jumping to conclusions.
Drinking != drunk.
If you listen to the freaking audio you can hear the officer talking with one of the participants and making mention that this was the first time that there had been any trouble with this group, which suggests that they'd been doing this for a while. Also, if you listen to the audio you can pretty readily tell that the people there were acting in an appropriate manner. Hell, the officer even made a statement to one of the participants about being able to pick Rachner up at the precinct depending on if he makes it into court that night or not. That would imply that the officer believed his friend was sober enough to be driving.
The only one acting like a douchebag was the person who hit the golf ball and laughed when it hit the guy in the face (although I'd have laughed as well, while 100% sober, I'd also have the common decency to apologize to the person afterwards).
And what does supporting marijuana or being a vegan have to do with anything? I support marijuana even though I don't use it, and being a vegan is a lifestyle choice that has absolutely no impact on my meat-eating lifestyle so I fail to see your point.
There's a difference between identifying yourself and showing ID.
First, when one examines the typical city budget (in this case Seattle) you will note millions of dollars in a miscellanous account line; this is for all those damages paid out in lawsuits against the Seattle Police, the Seattle Utilities departments.
Secondly, I have long held that Cleve Stockmeyer is, hands down, the finest attorney in the Northwest. He was also the finest board member on the Seattle Monorail Project which, if Seattle wasn't even more riddled with corruption than even San Diego, we would actually have a city-wide monorail today, instead of continuing to be fleeced with millions of dollars in payouts due to the highly-paid Seattle police department and Seattle utilities people.
It would be particularly difficult to require suspects to show ID, because you aren't even required to have ID. Sure, in practice it's difficult to avoid getting a government-issued ID (can't do lots of things without one), but there's no law mandating it, if you don't drive and don't need to exit/reenter the country.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Nope. Never talk to a cop. Ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik
Oh, and the one that hit the other guy in the face with the foam ball should have been arrested for battery.
fixed that for you, since there is a difference between the two
See: http://www.diffen.com/difference/Assault_vs_Battery
Oh, and the one that hit the other guy in the face with the foam ball should have been arrested for assault. They were all a bunch of hooligans, and a public nuisance
Says you! Those hooligans could be a welcomed part of the weekend bar crawl. Business seems to be booming in the video, although I didn't see any golfers. Go worry about your lawn.
Accidentally hitting someone in the face with a foam ball is probably not a crime at all, and it's only going to be a cause for civil action if it actually causes damage.
Wow, that's the stupidest bit of travel advice I've ever heard.
Never walk around with your passport when you don't have to. Leave it locked in the hotel safe, take a photocopy if you need it.
Now I've been able to walk around unharrased without my passport in every nation I've been to, including but not limited to:
- Thailand
- Malaysia
- Philippines
- Singapore
- New Zealand
- Cambodia
- Vietnam
- China
- Indonesia
BTW, I'm an Australian.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Depends where in the world you are. In Canada there is no such thing as Battery, only Assault and Aggravated Assault.
They were all a bunch of hooligans, and a public nuisance.
Hooligans? Because they played nerf golf in the street while drinking? My dear sir, sometime you must spend time around real hooligans, so that you may come to appreciate the silliness of your overstatement.
Let the county prosecuting attorney know what you think: Prosecuting.Attorney@kingcounty.gov
AZ SB 1070 Sec. 11. Severability, implementation and construction
B. The terms of this act regarding immigration shall be construed to have the meanings given to them under federal immigration law.
C. This act shall be implemented in a manner consistent with federal laws regulating immigration, protecting the civil rights of all persons and respecting the privileges and immunities of United States citizens.
I still cannot find the droids I am looking for...
Spun wrote, regarding someone hit by a foam ball accidentally:
Aside from assuming facts not in evidence, your post reminded me of the following from the works of Lewis Carroll:
`Take some more tea,' the March Hare said to Alice, very earnestly.
`I've had nothing yet,' Alice replied in an offended tone, `so I can't take more.'
I am upset about these kinds of situations not only because it's a clear abuse of power but also because thoughless actions such as these waste millions of taxpayer dollars.
Here's what I think could work as a deterrent to abuse by government officials...
For every lawsuit that is lost by the city, county, state in similar matters... the offending department has their next yearly budget reduced by half of the judgement. So if the police department does something bad and ends up settling out of court or loses a court case to the tune of 1 million... then their next yearly budget would automatically get reduced by 500k.
There has to be some sort of penalty to government workers that is more meaningful than just dipping into the general budget (our tax dollars) to pay for mistakes.
OK, I was actually there. Not, "I heard this from a guy." I mean, I'm Dan Kaminsky, who's named in the article.
This was kind of a silly situation. One of the guys in our group hit the ball and it sort of sailed into this guy's face. It's a styrofoam ball, the maximum speed of those things is maybe ten miles an hour. It's actually slower than a Nerf ball.
Anyway, the guy who actually hit the thing was sort of an awkward nerd, and laughed about it nervously. You know in the article when the guy's like, it was just one guy? That's because it was just him. There was certainly no mob taunting.
Really, this was a bunch of nerds and burners. There was no damage going on, just general silliness and large scale commerce with institutions that were each contacted in advance and specially staffed to seat all of us. I don't think it'll happen again, and that's sort of sad. Urban golf was a lot of fun for everyone.
It's not that all police officers are corrupt thugs, but a large enough proportion of them are to make it dangerous to assume that any particular cop you encounter is honest.
It's more or less clear that modern police, institution evolved in XIX-XX centuries have troubles keeping up with modern society. One way to reorganize it would be separated into several independent structures. Traffic police should have nothing to do with criminal police. Criminal police shouldn't keep order on the streets and answer 911 etc. They should access each others databases only by court order, and could be used to investigate each other misconducts. Some system of checks and balances is needed.
IIRC The McGhee and Harrington case was dismissed a few months ago after the former prosecutors and them reached a multi-million dollar settlement.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
Yeah, a lot of people seem to think that's assault. That's not assault, assault is threatening people. It would be battery, and it's not that either!
The rule about what battery is very very lax, and can include things like simply touching others...but it always requires intent.
If you're walking down the road, and trip and fall against someone, that's not illegal in any sense. Neither is accidentally hitting them with an object you threw.
Now, if you were throwing it to miss, but to intimidate them, that can be assault. That is 'threatening' others. And if your intimidation attempt accidentally hit, it might be battery, just like swinging a baseball bat around to threaten someone and accidentally hitting them with it might be battery, depending on the law. But none of that applies here, where people were holding some sort of game and not taking notice of others.
Now, of course, causing harm to someone, even accidentally, can be a civil offense. Of course, as you pointed out, that would be hard to do for a foam ball.
Police, OTOH, are entirely capable of demanding that said group playing with foam balls in the street and hitting people accidentally move along, as that's textbook loitering. But the fact they could have given reasonable orders doesn't mean that can arrest people for random stuff that isn't illegal.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
It's really quite simple; if someone commits a crime, breaks a traffic law, etc they need to provide ID or they get their info run to see if they're legal....I don't see anything in there about Mexicans, do you?
Of course it doesn't say anything about Mexicans. That would be stupid, regardless of any intentions involved. You really think if they wrote a law like this with racist intentions they would state that explicitly? I'm not saying this is or isn't the case, but your proof is like asking people to play dumb.
Also your interpretation of the law doesn't match what I read in your link, nor does is coincide with what backers of the bill have said. The law states that they need "reasonable suspicion" and "lawful contact" to verify citizenship. Reasonable suspicion does not equal probable cause and neither does lawful contact. There is nothing in the law that establishes what reasonable suspicion is, and when asked what reasonable suspicion was, even the lawmakers who backed the bill can't come up with anything consistent. The only simple thing about the law is that it is open ended and poorly defined.
Another thing to note is your example is a bit ironic. Did you actually verify that the people in the emergency room weren't citizens? It's the emergency room where things aren't exactly planned out. Maybe they didn't have time to look for their paper work or it was lost in an accident. I carry around my drivers license but it might be in my coat on the table when I leave the office to get coffee. If I was rushed to the ER without it and was in their position would you have assumed I wasn't a citizen? Would the question be easier to answer if you could see what I looked like, or how I talked?
Withholding or destroying evidence used to be called "Obstruction of Justice" which is a felony. Whether the police or a defendant does it, it's a crime. If a prosecution has evidence that would exonerate a defendant, they are obliged to turn it over in discovery. Failure to do so is, to my knowledge, not as clear-cut as Obstruction, but morally it comes close enough. While a case is active I should think the police ought to be under obligation to retain all records, including recordings. This case looks like one that should lead to legislation demanding these recordings be retained.
Now he has proof, and that not only was he unfairly treated, but that the cops tried to cover up their mistake, and that should cost them, as they should be made examples of, just like citizens in this case were made examples out of....it is only fair, as well he should receive a large sum for his losses, and also his defamation.