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Best Seating Arrangement For a Team of Developers?

TekNullOG writes "I was given the job to prepare the logistics involved with moving our office. At the same time my bosses asked me to look into buying new desks for a small team of four developers and to consider if it could benefit the team to sit at a round table. In many offices and departments it increases productivity and makes collaboration easy. However, I am concerned that putting developers around a table could potentially be distracting consequently diminishing productivity by increasing coding errors. What are your thoughts?"

520 comments

  1. can we tag the article flamebait ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    can we tag the article flamebait ?

    1. Re:can we tag the article flamebait ? by ModernGeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, it's a good question. I think that a U shaped desk with everyone facing the wall and a big desk in the middle would be great. That way people can see each others screens and talk to each other. I do recommend that developers have a chance to get away and be by themselves though. People need privacy, and while collaborating in the open is great, they also need freedom to walk away and go somewhere else. The idea that someone has to be in a certain area for a designated amount of time is madness. People should be able to go where they want as they see fit, without being hounded. This is why I love working for myself, I feel free and happy, and would never go back.

      I was expecting to see ASCII art of desk arrangements and floor plans.

      --
      Sig: I stole this sig.
    2. Re:can we tag the article flamebait ? by Schmodus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      OMG. I hate this setup. It's like a computer lab at a university, but if the walls are all windows then it could work.

    3. Re:can we tag the article flamebait ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      slow cow

    4. Re:can we tag the article flamebait ? by ModernGeek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Personally, I like my back to the wall, but when it comes to collaboration, being next to someone is the best. At my old office, I had one long desk that me and another manager shared so that we could talk and see each others screens. We both had our backs to the window, and faced the door. It was a second story window, so I wasn't so scared of getting my back stabbed :-)

      --
      Sig: I stole this sig.
    5. Re:can we tag the article flamebait ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally, I like my back to the wall

      I hate having my back to the wall, even though it seems no matter how hard I try I always end up there.

    6. Re:can we tag the article flamebait ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How exactly is it flamebait?

    7. Re:can we tag the article flamebait ? by joocemann · · Score: 1

      can we tag the article flamebait ?

      Lol. I had one answer "A circle of Kumbaya"

    8. Re:can we tag the article flamebait ? by plover · · Score: 4, Funny

      It was a second story window, so I wasn't so scared of getting my back stabbed :-)

      I'm far more worried about my boss doing the back-stabbing than a stranger through a window.

      --
      John
    9. Re:can we tag the article flamebait ? by JWSmythe · · Score: 5, Interesting

          The last gig I did, I sat opposite the other developer who I needed frequent contact with. Everyone else got me by email, and I would initiate return phone calls. This avoided unnecessary interruptions in my workflow, and I could queue their requests to allow me to optimize my time.

          In the past I've used similar setups. Do all the developers need almost constant face time with each other? Probably not. Then why stuff them in the same room?

          At one company, everyone in the same office suite had their own office. That was maybe 1/3 of the development and systems staff. The rest were around the world. Communications were generally by email, except when live interaction was required. This kind of setup worked very well for me, so I could be at home, the office, or the datacenter, and there was no interruption to my workflow, except when I was traveling. It all worked out very well. It didn't matter what timezone someone was sitting in, the communications flow worked fluidly. That was a situation where all of the members of the crew were very good at their tasks, and didn't have to ask for help for stuff very much. Communications were limited to status updates and functionality interaction statements. Well, we'd BS sometimes, which was good for morale and to get to know each other better. I worked with a developer in Russia for probably two years before I ever heard his voice, and never did see him in person. I did know his work was accomplished properly, and his requests to me were usually "I need this functionality on these servers." I may ask for clarification, but since he knew what he was talking about his request were usually very clear.

          I guess if you have a team who are going to have lots of questions because they aren't totally clear on what they're doing, stuffing them all in a room is a good idea. A well thought out and documented project plan would alleviate a lot of those problems though. I can imagine a room with 10 developers who can shout questions to each other would create an amazingly high amount of unwanted distractions. Verbal communications also reduce the paper trail. If everything is done via email, no one can say "I asked you for ..." and it wasn't done because it hadn't actually been asked for. The simple "You requested X at 3:30 and I responded it was completed at 5:00" is amazingly useful down the line. It completely eliminates mistakes in memory where we thought something was asked.

          I've annoyed a few people before where I've told them to always email the requests to me. When they've failed to do so, but insist that they did ask for it, I can usually recite the conversation verbatim, and then they'll remember that they had only intended to ask for it, and never actually said to do it. That's usually enough to initiate the email papertrail so the same mistake doesn't happen again.

      --
      Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
    10. Re:can we tag the article flamebait ? by Cylix · · Score: 3, Funny

      Good man. Keep your enemies close.

      --
      "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
    11. Re:can we tag the article flamebait ? by Dumnezeu · · Score: 1

      At my office, we enjoy our privacy. For looking at each other's code, we use screen sharing. Anyone can access anyone's screen at any time, but we only do it when someone asks us to. Privacy problem solved by everyone facing the center and "check this out" solved by screen sharing.

      --
      Yes, it's sarcasm. Deal with it!
    12. Re:can we tag the article flamebait ? by Skal+Tura · · Score: 1

      That setup and i would quit promptly. I demand some privacy.

      At my last work place we had corner tables and facing each other or next to each other, a little bit privacy was there but behind me the wall had large windows. Boss sometimes stayed there looking what i'm doing and the room corner tables were desired for privacy. Every developer needs a little bit of time now and then to look here on ./ etc. to recharge creativity so to speak.

      I hated that i didn't have privacy, and was one of the reasons i ultimately quit. Albeit, i was so damn busy that it was very lucky day if i had time to scan through ./ headers anyways, or have normal working hours and not working late. I also preferred to work late so i can concentrate best, because 4 guys on the room, and one of them was talking a lot, when a second guy like that came, working might stop for 30mins at a time couple times day. Couldn't concentrate those times.

      Table arrangement is a tough thing, you got to have privacy yet allow collaboration, especially important is that weak coders can collaborate.

    13. Re:can we tag the article flamebait ? by cbart387 · · Score: 1

      I guess if you have a team who are going to have lots of questions because they aren't totally clear on what they're doing, stuffing them all in a room is a good idea. A well thought out and documented project plan would alleviate a lot of those problems though. I can imagine a room with 10 developers who can shout questions to each other would create an amazingly high amount of unwanted distractions.

      I like some of the other posters suggestions of having a conference room type environment where people can meet to discuss things. I'm in a cubicle environment, so I can second that having loud people (aka my boss) shouting in the room can be distracting.*

      * There has been times when overhearing conversations is good. Sometimes people are discussing a procedure/bug/system that you're aware of and can help guide them. Or if they're discussing something that will effect you. Having people in offices, you lose that but I don't think the advantages out-weigh the disadvantages of a cubicle setting.

      --
      Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    14. Re:can we tag the article flamebait ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should read all of Joel Spolsky's writings on this and then make sure you completely ignore them.

    15. Re:can we tag the article flamebait ? by mikael_j · · Score: 1

      How is everyone seeing each others screens a good thing? One of the most annoying things I know is when people can "sneak up" behind me and look at my screen.

      --
      Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
    16. Re:can we tag the article flamebait ? by ModernGeek · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yeah, but my boss is a ninja.

      --
      Sig: I stole this sig.
    17. Re:can we tag the article flamebait ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's a good question.

      No, it's not a good question. Or at least not a good question to be asking here.

      For example:

      I was given the job to prepare the logistics involved with moving our office.

      Ok, so logistics, I'm thinking maybe he's got questions about migrating hardware, storage backup, etc. But no, we find out that he's worried about the furniture...

      At the same time my bosses

      I have this funny feeling that the plural form of 'boss' is an indicator of how things run at this company- which is to say heavy on management and micromanagement & light on everything else.

      asked me to look into buying new desks for a small team of four developers and to consider if it could benefit the team to sit at a round table.

      Ok dude, here's the deal. Go talk to all 4 (yes four!) people, which should take you all of 15 minutes, and if they feel strongly go with their choice. Otherwise write up a big report which I'm sure will please ALL your bosses extolling the productivity-enhancing attributes of whichever shape of lumber you end up with. Bonus points if you can invent two or more buzzwords which relate desk surfaces to computer technology.

      Frankly I'm surprised you haven't asked what color to paint the walls, if you should get Elmo or Barney stickers to give them when they do well on an assignment, or which variety of cookies is best to feed them just before the afternoon nap.

  2. Both by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where I worked, a lot of groups camped out in conference rooms, but they always needed their own space when they were doing something especially tedious/frustrating.

  3. Why not by toxygen01 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ask them, what they feel like would work for them?

    1. Re:Why not by caffeinemessiah · · Score: 4, Insightful

      However, I am concerned that putting developers around a table could potentially be distracting consequently diminishing productivity by increasing coding errors.

      I agree with parent, and have you considered that developers whose code quality is affected by seating arrangements relative to other developers might not be...um, the best developers? Otherwise, I'd say you might be overthinking the issue.

      --
      An old-timer with old-timey ideas.
    2. Re:Why not by pclminion · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I agree with parent, and have you considered that developers whose code quality is affected by seating arrangements relative to other developers might not be...um, the best developers?

      That's pretty dumb. Of course having face-to-face exposure to other people will have definite effects on productivity, some of them positive, some negative. Being in close proximity to other people, being able to hear them sighing, muttering, seeing the expressions on their faces, this is going to have some kind of impact. We're geeks, not fucking aliens.

    3. Re:Why not by AuMatar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, you're underthinking it and ignoring the human element. Different people have different needs and react better to different environments. Some people hate noise. Others blare music in headphones. Some people multitask and deal with distractions well. Others can't. Some people like human interaction throughout the day. Others hate it.

      It also depends on the task their doing. If the stuff they work on is closely interrelated, ease of communication may help improve productivity. If they aren't, increased distraction will likely reduce it- its pretty hard to concentrate on your work when 2 or 3 people around you are discussing something, code related or not.

      The best situation I ever had was my last job- I had an office with an actual door I could close when I wanted privacy, next to a bunch of cubes where friends worked, so I could leave the door open and interact when I didn't (said interaction may or may not be code related).

      Personally I would hate the round table idea though. Everyone needs some space to themselves for papers, books, pictures of the kids, etc and a round table just doesn't do that.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    4. Re:Why not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Managers never ask. If they ask they're not managing, right? Honestly, sometimes you just don't think.

    5. Re:Why not by eonlabs · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I don't know, it may not be something they're immediately aware of.
      A seating arrangement I've found works well is on the inside of a ring.
      Have the desks setup with dividers so if someone needs to buckle down
      and focus, they can, but if they need to confer, they can turn around.

      I've tried cubes, offices, labs, and that setup, and I'd have to say,
      for small groups, it seems to work out the nicest.

      --
      I wouldn't consider the mad hatter mad. Just reality impaired. He sure can make a mean cup of tea.
    6. Re:Why not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Round table is the only way. You don't put poker players in cubicles, do you? No no, make 'em face each other down, guns on the table, both hands on the keyboard, This should be playing in the background..just to kinda let them know the project better finish on schedule.

    7. Re:Why not by webishop · · Score: 1

      As a designer, I have worked in several environments. Working in the eye of a ring, I found, was probably the most intensive, productive, and enjoyable way of working.

    8. Re:Why not by Grishnakh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I work under these conditions, and I'm looking for a new job. Unlike the other freaks on here, I do NOT like a work environment where I have zero privacy, where I get distracted every time someone walks by or a big crowd gathers around a neighboring engineer and has a loud conversation, and where I can't have a private phone conversation without everyone in my group hearing every word I say. Worse, this company has very few conference rooms, so it's frequently hard to find a private place to talk on the phone during breaks, and I end up in the hallway half the time (as do many other people).

      Generally, the work I do is individual, though sometimes engineers will ask each other questions. I've worked in offices with standard cubicles before, and that arrangement is FAR preferable. It's not hard to stand up and go to someone else's cubicle if you have a quick question, and is good for your body too. Having a bit more privacy and quiet helps productivity immensely in people who are quiet and introverted by nature.

      Generally, it's the stupid loud-mouth extroverted bosses who come up with these stupid seating plans, and think it's wonderful for productivity, yet they themselves have their own walled offices. Can you say "hypocrite"?

    9. Re:Why not by BikeHelmet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I agree with parent, and have you considered that developers whose code quality is affected by seating arrangements relative to other developers might not be...um, the best developers? Otherwise, I'd say you might be overthinking the issue.

      Or maybe they are the best developers. Look up Asperger's syndrome.

      And yes, ask them. Also, be prepared to possibly replace the desk(s) if it doesn't work out.

    10. Re:Why not by Odinlake · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've been in all sorts of offices. I actually prefer sharing a larger room over having my own tiny one or a cubicle, but of course there shouldn't bee too many peopl or there will just be constant chatter. So given that, a medium room with a handfull of pepople, I strongly dislike having my desk face a wall and my back to the room - it has only disadvantages. Mostly it's unnerving to have people moving around behind you. On the other hand facing the room has only advantages for me - it's more social, no one sneaks up on you and at least personally I'm not the least distracted by seeing things move around. It's the sounds that may be bothersome, but seeing what makes the sounds actually ameliorates the issue a bit.

    11. Re:Why not by Bob_Geldof · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I guess that works if you enjoy working in a panopticon. One of the most aggravating things is to have your back to everyone else in the group, headphones blasting to drone out the ambient noise (three programmers in a room with 14 servers/workstations and A/C), and then get surprised from behind by someone like the boss. Never sit with your back to the door. Isn't that how James Butler Hickok went out?

      --
      887321 = 337*2633
    12. Re:Why not by WRX+SKy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Spot on sir. Different strokes for different folks. What we did (and it works wonderfully), is give everyone laptops and set up several areas with docking stations. Some are round tables, some are cubes, some are open work areas... then just let the employee choose their seat as the current project demands.

    13. Re:Why not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... is going to have some kind of impact. We're geeks, not fucking aliens.

      Amen... preach it brotha!

    14. Re:Why not by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 4, Funny

      Use a staged plan:

      Week 1: Set each developer across from a failed 80s comedian. Yakov Smirnoff, Carrottop, Gilbert Gottfried.

      Week 2: Remove the comedian.

      Note that regardless of your seating arrangement, you'll get an unimaginable boost in productivity during week two.

    15. Re:Why not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm so glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I am extremely productive when I have a little privacy at work. I freeze up, and can't work productively in offices that don't even have cube walls.

      I realize that not all people thrive in the same environments. You have to decide which type of office you want, and stick with it. The employees that stick around will be the ones that thrive in that environment.

    16. Re:Why not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you've got conversations and other activity going on *behind* you?! How do you get your reptile brain to turn down the fight or flight response? I'd quit that job before I had one to replace it.

    17. Re:Why not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FFS, why can't you just put a real subject, like "Why not ask them?". No, instead you put this cliff hanger crap like it's your own personal blog where you dear readers are hanging on every word.

    18. Re:Why not by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Note that all 4 developers around a table would have to agree to work around a table. Majority vote does not work in this instance for the 4th developer who can't work in that sort of environment. Definitely never do this just because a few developers came from an environment that did this and they claim that it works - you must get everyone on board.

      Sometimes (actually, often) you need to think and/or concentrate in order to work. This is extremely difficult to do in ultra-hip collaborative environments, with multiple people in an office/cube, with multiple people in front of a single terminal, etc.

      Two people in an office can work sometimes, but it can fail badly if one person is in a constant state of interruption (ie, a project manager getting a stream of people walking in to check on status), it means everyone in the office is in a constant state of interruption. (yeah, yeah, headphones may work, if the company buys them and supplies them)

    19. Re:Why not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I keep trying to read this as a poem. I just don't get it. Should I read it to any particular tune? Is it one of those poems that doesn't actually rhyme, or am I missing something obvious?

    20. Re:Why not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've worked in both situations. I couldn't agree more.

    21. Re:Why not by Hotawa+Hawk-eye · · Score: 1

      So call it "Surveying the individual contributors to gather requirements and recommendations for incorporation into the seating paradigm."

      Now if you excuse me, I need to go wash my hands, as all of a sudden they feel soiled.

    22. Re:Why not by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      Ring is good. We used to work with a conference table in the middle of a square room with everyone along the walls.

      What I like better if you have enough space and few enough people is the straight line. You are only next to two people. It's easy to roll down the line in your chair and look at someone else's screen and you aren't staring at some schmuck's face all day which I find really distracting.

      Facing into a circle is bad because you can talk and be distracted but it's a long trip around the outside to get to someone else's screen. We had this when I was in college and I hated it. You can't lean back and look at anyone's screen.

    23. Re:Why not by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 1

      I saw a video recently (I'm pretty sure it's an old video) of some people sitting around a table just like the OP's boss suggested. One guy's phone is ringing, and the guy is just ignoring it. Suddenly the guy across from him at the table loses it, throws something at the guy (I think it was his phone), then dives across the table to get at the guy who won't answer his stupid telephone. He tackles the rude office mate and proceeds to beat the living shit out of him.

      It would be a much, much, much better idea to give everybody a little bit of privacy and use some sort of collaboration software instead. Cubicals with high walls is fine, and you can keep the group pretty close together to make direct, verbal communication and small pow-wows easy. A set of cubicals surrounding a collaboration table would probably be the best mix of privacy and accessibility.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    24. Re:Why not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I work under these conditions, and I'm looking for a new job. Unlike the other freaks on here, I do NOT like a work environment where I have zero privacy, where I get distracted every time someone walks by or a big crowd gathers around a neighboring engineer and has a loud conversation, and where I can't have a private phone conversation without everyone in my group hearing every word I say. Worse, this company has very few conference rooms, so it's frequently hard to find a private place to talk on the phone during breaks, and I end up in the hallway half the time (as do many other people).

      This exactly. We have these "desks" that are arranged like this: one low, straight wall down the middle (you can peer over it while seated, it's that low) with desk space on both sides. There are two or three people on either side of the desk per row. You have exactly zero privacy, you can hear everything, and there's no cover or protection from someone sneaking up behind you (you may laugh, but it's really hard to focus when you know that someone might come up behind you at any moment)

      So far, the turnover for our programming division has been nearly 100% over six months or so (the only guy who hasn't left is the guy who's up high enough to have an office). In fact, the company is currently hiring some contractors, just because they can't find programmers willing to work in these conditions. I'm not sure who made the decision to install those horrible desks, but I have suspicions it was one of those aforementioned extroverted bosses.

      The thing is, it does work for other people. The various divisions have loud arguments over the fine points of their respective specialities, people shoot each other with Nerf darts, people toss fake footballs. I'm even fine with it because I'm currently on-site tech support, so it's my job to be interrupted all the time. The corporate culture doesn't really care if you watch a bit of South Park or YouTube or read Slashdot, so privacy for those things isn't an issue.

      The problem is that the good programmers will see this floor plan, and go somewhere else. I'm not sure anyone realizes this.

    25. Re:Why not by CliffLandin · · Score: 2

      I think you should ask the developers, as well. I was in this situation a couple years back and I pushed for the 4 desk quad with the low ( 1 foot ) wall dividing desks. We didn't find it to be a distraction, rather we felt that it made collaboration much easier.

      --
      When in doubt, go flat out!
    26. Re:Why not by uncqual · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's so sad that our industry has gotten to this point where the discussion is not over "offices vs. cubicles" but over "bullpen layout A vs. bullpen layout B". Most of development work is actually solitary and productivity and quality (in the terms of correctness) benefits from the ability to concentrate, which in turn is much easier when there are fewer distractions.

      Much (probably most) of my career I've had a private office and, compared to those times I was in a cubicle bay, I got more work and better quality work done in the office environment. Although, that may be not entirely due to the office vs. cubicle difference as the companies that gave offices to developers were also understood more about what developers needed to be productive - less PHB MBA crap and heavy handed IT rules etc.

      The need for continuous collaboration suggests that interfaces are not well documented or perhaps even well defined and/or the system/feature architecture is not well thought out. It also suggests that too much information is "in people's heads" -- and hence the company will incur unnecessary expense if one or more people get hit (very hard) by a bus (or, I suppose, a buss) or leaves the company. This isn't to say some collaboration isn't necessary (certainly for brainstorming about design issues and for the occasional "WTF is this code trying to do and why?") - indeed, if no ad hoc collaboration is needed, I suspect that too much effort has been expended on design and documentation. There's a happy medium.

      So, the answer to the original question is "Yes, every workspace needs to be surrounded by floor to ceiling walls except for a door that closes! I once worked at a company which was locating to new facilities which were being built out for us. The facilities folks decided that cubicles for all was the answer. The developers pretty much stood up and said "over our dead bodies" and in the end all developers had private offices except for very junior ones (this actually made some sense because the less experienced one is, I think the more likely one is to learn from "random chatter" vs. be distracted by it - the first discussion you overhear about cache coherency models is much more valuable than the 30th one). Funny thing was, I noticed that even the facilities folks mostly had their own offices in the end - even though they were the ones arguing that wasn't necessary and citing studies that cubicles were more productive!

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    27. Re:Why not by uncqual · · Score: 1

      Although, maybe some SEC employees should have worked in that configuration, it might have discouraged some of their less productive web surfing if they feared being surprised by the boss!

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    28. Re:Why not by uncqual · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How do you get your reptile brain to turn down the fight or flight response?

      You don't - you just invoke the fight response and shoot the people behind you - problem solved.

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    29. Re:Why not by Lakitu · · Score: 2, Funny

      Generally, it's the stupid loud-mouth extroverted bosses who come up with these stupid seating plans, and think it's wonderful for productivity, yet they themselves have their own walled offices. Can you say "hypocrite"?

      not if other people are in the room

    30. Re:Why not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you sound just like the type of person who needs zero privacy otherwise your employer wouldn't get anything out of you.

      a good kick up the ass will set you straight. or about 6 months living and travelling in a third world country.

      oh and on your break go outside and have your private conversation.

    31. Re:Why not by farmkid · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ..."Unlike the other freaks on here, I do NOT like a work environment where I have zero privacy, where I get distracted every time someone walks by or a big crowd gathers around a neighboring engineer and has a loud conversation, and where I can't have a private phone conversation without everyone in my group hearing every word I say."

      I generally agree -- over several decades, most of my projects were implemented by small groups, where personal space is important. Much to my surprise, however, I found that a group room worked very well on one large project. Mind you, the reason it worked may have been project specific, but for what it's worth:

      It was a big integration project, with both infrastructure and application people needing immediate problem resolution -- about 30 developers total. We set up a LARGE conference room with a U of tables around three sides. There were a couple of tables in the front for meeting leaders (for the infrequent meetings and conference calls) and, just as importantly, extra stragglers.

      The groups arranged themselves informally around the U, with related team members close to each other for quick-over-the-shoulder consultation, and with the other groups in easy reach for cross-disciplinary issues. There was little management 'interference' (though, of course, they checked in), 'cause they trusted the teams to work out the details.

      Through many previous (and smaller) projects, I've preferred to work alone, and I was surprised at how well this worked out. We spent about three months at 10-12 hours a day (yes, five days a week, so we could decompress), and much to my eremitic amazement, even I felt that this arrangement worked very well for a project that was complex and reaching deadline.

      Thoughts on arrangement: First, no close face-to-face stuff. We had about 20 feet between opposing sides of the U, so this was a non-issue. Secondly: no back-to-back (classroom style). This not only leads to looking-over-your-shoulder syndrome, but also a reduced face-to-face invitation for collaboration.

    32. Re:Why not by hobo+sapiens · · Score: 1

      Didn't you see the title? "The miscellaneous ramblings of an eighty column mind."

      --
      blah blah blah
    33. Re:Why not by hobo+sapiens · · Score: 5, Funny

      We're the developers of the round table
      we code when we're able
      we eat pizza with cheese
      work when we please
      and we don't act real stable

      on second thought...this is a silly post. Let's not go there.

      --
      blah blah blah
    34. Re:Why not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      In Soviet Russia, comedian removes you!

      You brought that on yourself.

    35. Re:Why not by Bob+Cat+-+NYMPHS · · Score: 1

      Yakov has his own theater, hundreds of thousands of people go to it every year.

      http://www.yakov.com/branson/

      And Carrot Top has more money and bigger biceps than you.

    36. Re:Why not by Your.Master · · Score: 1

      If you're comparing your job against life in a third world country, then you have a bad job. Or a good third world country.

    37. Re:Why not by gfody · · Score: 1

      Hear, hear!
      Spolsky occasionally writes about this and I like what he has to say as well
      FieldGuidetoDevelopers
      BionicOffice

      --

      bite my glorious golden ass.
    38. Re:Why not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's so sad that our industry has gotten to this point where the discussion is not over "offices vs. cubicles" but over "bullpen layout A vs. bullpen layout B".

      I don't think it's necessarily "our" industry. I think there are a lot of companies employing programmers these days that aren't exactly software companies. The programmers are second class citizens to blow hard sales people and are basically constantly churning out shitty web applications as part of a service or integration. These are the kinds of places that are driving Agile methodologies and using those dumb frameworks that allow you to build a toy program in 3 lines of code but can never scale and fall apart when you start adding features or making changes. For these shops sitting in a bullpen and having standup meetings and running around with chickens and pigs up their asses is actually productive. There is little concentration required and little to no actual problem solving involved.

      Our industry on the other hand - i.e: true software companies, should not confuse ourselves at all with these people. What is sad is they also give themselves titles like "Software Developer" which is confusing the whole damn world. Discussions about putting software developers in bullpens are ludicrous just like discussions about using Agile methodologies for long term products or using Ruby on Rails to make scalable enterprise applications.

    39. Re:Why not by c-reus · · Score: 1

      Will Joe the Introvert always choose the cubicle and Jane the Extravert always sit in the open area with her friends?

    40. Re:Why not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AFLACK!

    41. Re:Why not by dfgchgfxrjtdhgh.jjhv · · Score: 1

      I find desks facing the wall makes it easier to collaborate with other developers, because you can all easily see each other's screens. Do you have paranoia issues? I really can't see the problem with facing the wall.

      With desks in the middle of the room & developers facing each other, it becomes much harder to work together. To show a colleague something, they have to leave their desk & walk around to see your screen.

    42. Re:Why not by Odinlake · · Score: 1

      I wrote that sounds of movement behind my back from things I do not see are distracting (while not so if I see the cause of the sounds); if that makes me paranoid in your world well then so be it.

    43. Re:Why not by WRX+SKy · · Score: 1

      We have some people who have chosen that route... but again, if that's how they work best - what's it matter? The goal is efficiency.

    44. Re:Why not by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      I know who you really are, Bob Cat NYMPHS-- or should I say Bobcat Goldthwait. Your clever Slashdot name isn't fooling me!

      Go back into the 80s where you belong!

    45. Re:Why not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Definitely agree. I'm intensely introverted (not at all uncommon in my particular field) and I find these open "collaborative" workspace setups to be intensely stressful and distracting. The company I'm currently working for is planning to switch to them later this year - no input from us, of course - and I'll be looking for a new job as soon as it happens. I won't be alone, either. They'll be stuck with all the noisy goof-offs who already aren't doing any work, while all the productive people take off for a different job.

      The sad part is, I'm in test. The people I'd really need to talk to are not the other testers, but the developers. Who are nowhere near us. All we get out this change is more distractions and less privacy.

      I know introverts are a minority, but you can't just ignore 30% of the population when you're designing your office. Especially not in the technical arena, which tends to gather a disproportionate number of us.

    46. Re:Why not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Totally Agree! I too work under these conditions and am looking for a new job.

    47. Re:Why not by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I know introverts are a minority, but you can't just ignore 30% of the population when you're designing your office. Especially not in the technical arena, which tends to gather a disproportionate number of us.

      Exactly. And in programming/engineering/IT, I'd say it's much, much higher than 30%. I'm pretty sure everyone in my workgroup is an introvert, except perhaps my team leader (I'm not sure about him). Honestly, I can't say I've had to work with almost any other engineers or other technical types who I'd consider extroverts, and those that are are the ones who look to advance into management.

    48. Re:Why not by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I'd also like to add, you might want to start looking for a new job right now, instead of waiting for the seating change. I've noticed companies tend to do more hiring in the first half of the year, and very little near the end of the year, so right now is really the best time to look. Also, there's been a bit of a resurgence in tech hiring lately.

    49. Re:Why not by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 1

      >> ask them, what they feel like would work for them?

      Either that, or put them in a huge rotating metal cage and let them fight with chainsaws.

    50. Re:Why not by CreatorOfSmallTruths · · Score: 1

      Thank god there is someone sane here.

      I have worked in cubicles, alone and in the horrible "two large desk, 8 people" configuration.

      For programmers, I think the best thing is put each programmer in a room by him/herself. alone. let people concentrate.

      You see, when everyone are in the same room the strongest programmers get drawn to help the weakest, which does not help anybody, and certainly does not help you weed out the good from the bad. It becomes a social thing instead of being a work thing. and I don't want to talk about the loud people, freaks, people who decided to live under your desk and the whole "lets go to lunch" in the middle of coding thing. leave me alone, I'll call you if I need you.

    51. Re:Why not by eonlabs · · Score: 1

      Fact.

      --
      I wouldn't consider the mad hatter mad. Just reality impaired. He sure can make a mean cup of tea.
    52. Re:Why not by shovas · · Score: 1

      The need for continuous collaboration suggests that interfaces are not well documented or perhaps even well defined and/or the system/feature architecture is not well thought out.

      Bingo. Absolutely bingo.

      That is exactly the problem and, to me, it's obvious.

      There's this idea of cost associated with designing up front and since it's an immediate cost it overrides the cost of all the trouble that ensues on the backend of a project timeline when that lack of documentation completely screws you over.

      There is no free lunch. There is no silver bullet. There are only better and worse company practices and better and worse managers and developers. Which is really only to say: Duh!

      --
      Selah.ca. Pause, and calmly think on that.
    53. Re:Why not by gr8dude · · Score: 1

      Can you provide a picture or a drawing of your layout?

    54. Re:Why not by alexschmidt · · Score: 1

      Amen. I believe the book 'Peopleware' had a section on this comparing places where employees could control their distractions vs. those who couldn't. It was no surprise that the people who had a quiet workplace were far more productive. I need quiet and I've gone in on Saturday mornings when no one was around and go more done in 5 hours than I did in the previous 5 days. I just don't get this idea that you need to be in constant collaboration with people. If the specifications and documentation are that bad, send it back up the line for clarification. You need a place to think and if you need a break, get up and walk around. Get outside and get some air. Don't sit back and waste time watching Youtube or getting on the web.

    55. Re:Why not by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      and if you need a break, get up and walk around. Get outside and get some air.

      That works OK in the winter here, but in the summer it's 115 outside, so outside is the last place I want to go for a break. Unfortunately, not only is my company so stupid/cheap they don't have enough conference rooms, they also don't have any quiet places to go take a break. The one "break room" has extremely bright lights and a TV blaring CNN news all day. Hardly relaxing.

      I usually end up just going into a hallway and standing around there for some peace and quiet.

    56. Re:Why not by eonlabs · · Score: 1

      Something like this
      " " and "-" is open floor, "X" is a seat, "Z" is table
      "Lameness Filters" prevented using clearer characters in the art.

      ---ZZZZZZ
      -ZZZX  XZZZ
      ZZ        ZZ
      ZX        XZ
      Z          Z
      ZZ X     XZZ
      -ZZZ    ZZZ
      ---ZZ  ZZ

      --
      I wouldn't consider the mad hatter mad. Just reality impaired. He sure can make a mean cup of tea.
    57. Re:Why not by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I don't think it's necessarily "our" industry. I think there are a lot of companies employing programmers these days that aren't exactly software companies. The programmers are second class citizens to blow hard sales people and are basically constantly churning out shitty web applications as part of a service or integration.

      That's sort of where I am, except I'm an embedded software engineer working on Linux device drivers. My company isn't a "software company", it makes devices for the retail industry. Just last Thursday, our team found out that the blow-hard sales people wanted to demo our new product (which we're currently developing) to some customers, so they wanted a new software build ready with all our latest changes to show them. When did they want this ready? Friday. The team ended up coming in on the weekend to get it ready before the demo this week. We engineers are absolutely answerable to the salespeople above everyone else.

    58. Re:Why not by twebb72 · · Score: 1

      I like to push the pram-a-lot

    59. Re:Why not by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      and have you considered that developers whose code quality is affected by seating arrangements relative to other developers might not be...um, the best developers?

      Let's set you up with a work arrangement where a big strobe light flashes in your face at random intervals, averaging every 5 minutes, and loud music (some type that you hate) is blaring all the time. For good measure, let's make it either really hot or really cold (like 100 in the summer and 32 in the winter).

      How do you think your code quality would be in this situation?

  4. What's an office? by toastar · · Score: 5, Funny

    I bet your programmers would be most efficient with a laptop on the beach, I bet they would even volunteer to work late.

    1. Re:What's an office? by Locke2005 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Actually, I bet that would be their second choice, after a laptop at Hooters.

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    2. Re:What's an office? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      You forget. These are software developers, not sales people.

    3. Re:What's an office? by TheKidWho · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They're usually less clothed at the beach.

    4. Re:What's an office? by AuMatar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why hooters? If you want live porn, go to a strip joint. If you want food, go to a better restaurant.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    5. Re:What's an office? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      What if you want delicious chicken wings? I'll grant you that Hooters, as a "regular" restaurant, is unimpressive. But, as a wing shack... it's tough to beat!

    6. Re:What's an office? by BobPaul · · Score: 4, Funny

      I dunno. Strip joint sounds like an awful long way to go for porn. Don't they have internet at work?

      If it's good enough for SEC Lawyers, it should be good enough for engineers...

    7. Re:What's an office? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just go there for the wings.

    8. Re:What's an office? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea, but you get "half-porn", more if you have the money, the thumping music most of us listen to and you don't even need to worry about others catching you at what you're looking at!

      PERFECT!

    9. Re:What's an office? by Barny · · Score: 1

      Plus it makes buying drinks at the bar and tipping the strippers a business expense, and you can either ask for a budget from work to cover it or claim it all on your tax.

      I can just see strip joints putting in SLA fibre connections and organising "business accounts". Hrmm, I just thought of a great idea for a patent, brb.

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    10. Re:What's an office? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because its not like they (the strippers) would ever leave you alone at a strip joint. Even if you never hit the VIP room you would wind up buying rounds of (full priced, yet watered down) drinks for the ladies. Then when you think you are done, the next shift comes in. Rest assured you would spend more each day than you make.

    11. Re:What's an office? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please.

      I think engineers have a bit higher standards than lawyers.

    12. Re:What's an office? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I knew of a company back in the late 1980s that actually did that. They had a "programmer's van" with computers and power converters, and about once a week they would head down to the beach and code a little, then play some volleyball, then code, then surf, etc, etc.

      They produced lousy code, but had a great time doing so!

    13. Re:What's an office? by ArcadeNut · · Score: 1

      They have wings at Hooters?

      --
      Visit the Arcade Restoration Workshop @ http://www.arcaderestoration.com
    14. Re:What's an office? by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      I don't think working at a strip club is going to make you more productive, unless you work as a sperm donor!

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  5. What works for us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All desks pointing to the wall. No cubicles, no pointy-haired bosses watching you every movement.

    And remember: A happy coder is an efficient coder!

  6. Isolation Doesn't Increase Productivity by Jhyrryl · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's extremely helpful when programming to ask a colleague to borrow their eyes from time to time, or to help work out a tech design on a nearby whiteboard. Around a circular table keeps the side-by-side, where they can easily wheel over to a neighbor's station to help out.

    --
    Jhyrryl
    1. Re:Isolation Doesn't Increase Productivity by Pikoro · · Score: 1

      We have our desks in a square facing each other. All the cables run down the hole in the middle, we can speak to each other over the tops of the monitors on our desks, and we have a shared projector in the middle pointed at the wall. This projector allows any one of us to show what we are currently working on so we can ask for another pair of eyes easily.

      If I need some help finding a problem, I can project my screen on the wall and all 4 of us can look at it and collaborate.

      --
      "Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
  7. Sierpinski carpet by nacturation · · Score: 5, Funny

    The best arrangement is to lay them out as a fractal a la Sierpinski carpet. Produces a decent tight packing and ensures that you are able to maximize your space. Other options that came to mind are if you have curved desks you could arrange them in a 69 fashion. Or get desks of different dimensions... some square, some straight, a few L-shaped ones. Then you could make the developers arrange their desks daily in a game of office Tetris.

    --
    Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    1. Re:Sierpinski carpet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Just make sure you don't arrange the desks in a perfect line going from one end of the room to the other.

    2. Re:Sierpinski carpet by martin-boundary · · Score: 0

      Another good tip for maximizing space is to alternate between hiring big fat programmers and small thin developers. Just make sure to seat the big fat ones down first, then you can fill in the remaining spaces. Never start by seating the small thin ones first, or you'll have to use duct tape to keep the big fat ones from sliding around.

    3. Re:Sierpinski carpet by Dahamma · · Score: 4, Funny

      Or get desks of different dimensions...

      Yeah, and if you use 4 dimensions, they could all occupy the same space!

    4. Re:Sierpinski carpet by Barny · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and you could get like the tallest of them on the outer edges, and you could hire some midgets to man the "dimensionally challenged" desks toward the centre.

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    5. Re:Sierpinski carpet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not in a hexagon, with one side per programmer, plus one for printer and/or other common items (guest chair,
      for example), plus one "space" as the entry way to the hive, with a round conference table in the middle to permit
      collaboration with each other as well as confer with one or two others who may need to sit in.

      Of course, you'd have to set up mirrors and/or fake walls to deflect/fool the PHB when it wants to stop by.

    6. Re:Sierpinski carpet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or get desks of different dimensions...

      Yeah, and if you use 4 dimensions, they could all occupy the same space!

      You laugh, but some companies have a system where you share desks, because not everyone is in the office at the same time...

    7. Re:Sierpinski carpet by Gertlex · · Score: 1

      Those aren't cheap though.

      BUT you can put the 2 dimensional desks on top of each other. Pretty much same effect!

    8. Re:Sierpinski carpet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i walked thru one of facebook's offices and in retrospect it actually was roughly like the sierpinski carpet if the bigger squares are offices and the medium ones shared offices, mid-small are tables and the smaller ones are small tables

    9. Re:Sierpinski carpet by lukas84 · · Score: 1

      Which makes sense. Some of our Developers have laptops and work from home most of the time. Why allocate them a desk?

    10. Re:Sierpinski carpet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and if you use 4 dimensions, they could all occupy the same space!

      No thanks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_desking

    11. Re:Sierpinski carpet by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      Hmm, not sure it is. You could stack a LOT of 2 dimensional desks on top of each other, but the hard part is finding the 2 dimensional engineers to sit in them...

  8. Non sense by AthleteMusicianNerd · · Score: 5, Informative

    This is an awful idea. I've been in that situation, not quite a round table, but 5 guys in the same room. It's a great way to not get shit done, and have a lot of conversations about the latest MMO. At that time it was Everquest. I guess it'd be Starcraft now.

    In addition, the foul odors emitted in that room were quite offensive. The farting, sweating, lack of showering...etc.... The best configuration for programmers is individual offices.

    1. Re:Non sense by AuMatar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm actually working somewhere right now where evryone has their own office. I loved having an office myself, but with everyone having their own its just too quiet. No interaction, no way to get to know anyone. There has to be a happy medium between that and the cube farm.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    2. Re:Non sense by Symbha · · Score: 3, Informative

      Agreed. I've worked in a shared space, a cube, and an office.
      The office is the best.

    3. Re:Non sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I second this, from experience. The only thing worse than having your team spread all across the building on different floors/areas (due to "lack of space"), is to have them all within one small area, constantly intruding on each others personal space and breaking each others concentration.

      The team needs to sit close enough for small communication and ad-hoc meetings to happen easily, but the team members need to be separated enough from the surrounding distractions to be able to concentrate. I've seen a very good arrangement at IBM, where the cubicle walls were higher than human height, and had sliding doors. The worst arrangement is wall-less round-table or inverse round-table.

    4. Re:Non sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Double agreed. I've worked in an office most of my career. For just a few months I had the misfortune to work in a cubicle. Much too distracting. People waking by who deem fit to stick their head over the wall and talk, the next door neighbor having a phone conversation, or discussing some technical matter with a colleague, general office noise, etc. - all a chore to have to tune out. It's much better to have an office to get things done. When the door is closed, then do-not-disturb because it's crunch time.

      There still was lots of time to interact with colleagues, but it was by choice not inclusion by default because there was no walls/door.

       

    5. Re:Non sense by xero314 · · Score: 0

      The best configuration for programmers is individual offices.

      I knew someone would make this suggestion, and it is these worst possible suggest. Having separate offices does not in anyway cut down of non-work related conversations. The Developers will either use instant messaging, which takes more effort than talking, or they will get up and walk to each others offices. The real bad problem is when they actually have to work together, which is nearly constantly on any reasonably sized project. Then they have to use less efficient forms of communication or again have to spend time walking to each others offices.

      Secluding Developers form the rest of he business is a good idea as it cuts down on the distractions that really do pull people away from their work. But secluding them from each other is just down right dumb.

      My suggestion would be up to five developers in a single room with individual desks facing out of the center of the room with a single large conference table in the middle. Give then each a laptop with at least one additional monitor. Also encourage the use of head phones when a developer wants to seclude themselves of the rest of the group. This gives developers their own working space if they want it (you could add cube walls but I would not suggest it) and also a communal space to work together. The best part is it keeps sales and all the other riffraff out.

    6. Re:Non sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      I agree. Last time I was in a room with 5 other dudes, all we did was circle up and jack off onto a girl. Seemed kind of gay to me, I mean, take away the chick and it's just a bunch of guys circle jerking (gay). Hell, she kept her clothes on so she may as well have been a shemale, tranny or lady boy. Definitely gay. Especially afterwards when we all hit the showers and the soap kept dropping.

    7. Re:Non sense by JT+The+Geek · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You need to have a culture set of getting shit done. We have a team of about 8 coders with another 3 html/css + 2 qa people sharing a roughly 40x40 foot room, and it's freaking awesome. All of our desks are pretty large, we all wear headphones when we want to get work done, and we don't when we want to talk to each other and take breaks. Our 2 team leaders set this culture, and everyone else follows and kicks ass. It's been working great for us, but it comes down to the team leader(s) to set the norms.

    8. Re:Non sense by AthleteMusicianNerd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Developers need a quiet place to go if they need to concentrate and get something done. I work in a lobby right now, and I'm disrupted constantly. Fortunately, my job is a joke and I can get stuff done well ahead of schedule. If I had more interesting work to do that required concentration and I got a lot of pressure to get stuff done, I'd walk right out of this office and find a new job. If you have developers that will screw off with an office, you should consider firing them and finding decent ones.

      If you have newbs that are learning to program, then they need interaction. Other than that, interaction with other programmers should be extremely brief...say 5 minutes. Your code should communicate what it's doing.

    9. Re:Non sense by AthleteMusicianNerd · · Score: 0, Troll

      Why do you need 3 html/css? I'm always so curious why business would hire people specifically for this task. What kind of salary are they paid? What kind of tasks do they do? This is the kind of thing I learned similarly to the way I learned to use a word processor. It just kind of happened. If you have to think about this stuff...god help you.

    10. Re:Non sense by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

      No interaction, no way to get to know anyone.

      It's called morning tea. Everybody sits around for 10-15 minutes to drink a hot beverage all at the same time and people just talk to whomever they like.

    11. Re:Non sense by Protocol16 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There is a happy medium: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/items/2008/12/29.html Part office, but not all the way.

      --
      Don't click here...
    12. Re:Non sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Also encourage the use of head phones when a developer wants to seclude themselves of the rest of the group.

      So to solve the problem of too much distracting noise, you propose yet more distracting noise? Brilliant.

    13. Re:Non sense by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Putting them all together "to improve productivity" works - they'll produce MORE conflict, MORE stupid mistakes, MORE distractions, and MORE crap.

      Everyone needs the equivalent of a sheet of plywood (32 s.f.) in work surface space for maximum productivity - this can be divided between a desk or table (6' x 2-1/2' gives you 15 s.f.), shelf space for books, manuals, "papers that I need", and storage (like a half-height filing cabinet that you can also throw ancillary equipment on.

      Add a chair (only one, to discourage others from hanging around), a white board and a cork board, and a minimum of 2 screens. 1920x1200 each. They'll pay for themselves and then some.

      BTW, the 32 s.f. rule is from Scott Adams, he of Dilbert fame, from before he found his true calling. And people have been using dual-monitor setups for more than 2 decades to increase productivity - even DOS products like dBase and Turbo C supported dual monitors, FFS.

    14. Re:Non sense by Donniedarkness · · Score: 1
      Well, I can see why you were unhappy.

      Starcraft isn't even an MMO.

      --
      Earn a % of cash back from Newegg, Tiger Direct, Walmart.com, and more: http://www.mrrebates.com?refid=458505
    15. Re:Non sense by Darinbob · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You get to know and interact with people in meetings. You don't need to interact with them when you're trying to work.

      Best environment I was ever in was when everyone had their own office (literally, the only people with cubes were sales or out-of-town prof services). When you wanted a meeting you didn't need to find a conference room since you could get 2 or 3 into an office and shut the door and have a discussion. If you wanted privacy you shut the door; if you didn't you kept the door open. There was a lot of collaboration under this scheme, everyone knew each other, and everyone interacted with each other.

    16. Re:Non sense by Hotawa+Hawk-eye · · Score: 1

      Where I work my developers, my fellow QE, and I all have private offices along basically the same hallway, so it's easy to call for someone to stop by if I have a question or to go walk a few steps if that doesn't work. At the same time, we have conference rooms on the same floor (in our case, on the same hallway as our offices) so when we need to hold a team meeting, we don't have far to go. It works pretty well.

    17. Re:Non sense by uncqual · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Umm... that "sales and all the other riffraff" probably actually have a clue about how customers are using your product and/or why prospects are/are not buying it and/or why it is/is not meeting their needs. Yep, you need to keep the price of entry a little high, but I'd much rather talk to a good SE, support or sales person about the product than be distracted by some developer bragging about his clever (NOT) solution for problem X or pontificating about some non-work related topic (I expect some non-work related chatter, it's just that two people chattering for a few minutes in one of their private offices gives them both a break but if they do it in a room of ten people, it distracts eight other people)

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    18. Re:Non sense by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      I loved having an office myself, but with everyone having their own its just too quiet. No interaction, no way to get to know anyone.

      Isn't that what lunch, meetings, hallway conversations, and instant messaging (we use IRC) are for?

    19. Re:Non sense by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It depends entirely on your programming situation. I have worked in Agile shops, where pair programming is put to very good use. If done properly, it is quite a bit MORE productive than two independent programmers. (Truth. I am not going to go look up the studies but there have been some, and that's what they show. And my own experience confirms it.)

      But the key words are "if done properly". Just stuffing two programmers on the same desk is, as you say, a good way to not get stuff done.

    20. Re:Non sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hate to be this pedantic, but the number of spelling and grammatical errors in your post really detracts from the strength of your argument. Clarity of communication is generally useful in determining clarity of thought.

    21. Re:Non sense by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      In addition, the foul odors emitted in that room were quite offensive. The farting, sweating, lack of showering...etc.... The best configuration for programmers is individual offices.

      Actually, if you're only concerned about farting et al., an office with 2 people would work just as well. You know you weren't the one who let one slip out (or if you were indeed, your mate knows he wasn't). Add a third person, and along comes plausible deniability.

    22. Re:Non sense by Tridus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Having separate offices does not in anyway cut down of non-work related conversations. "

      It does cut down on person A's chat with person B interrupting and annoying person C. The problem with groups of people together is that any two talking are interrupting the entire group.

      I could never get anything done in a setup like that, you can have my office door when you pry it from my cold, dead hand.

      --
      -- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
    23. Re:Non sense by SuperDre · · Score: 0

      I personally can't work with people around me, so for me the best thing is my own office. If I need to work with somebody else (like pairprogramming), or have a question, I just go to their office, and they come to me if they have a question. I'm so easily distracted when somebody is on the phone, or talking to another person, or like I do myself :) talk to myself during programming. I just can't get anything done as I keep watching up to see if they are talking to me. Headphones also aren't the best solution, as they aren't healty for your ears on a long term.

    24. Re:Non sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My last office (closed for cost and we all work from home now) we had private offices, but also an adjoining common area with U-shaped table, whiteboards and a ping-pong table. We all worked from laptops so we could get some things done in our office or move out to the common area for collaboration sessions.

      This worked great and is now my preferred model for offices.

    25. Re:Non sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like a lack of professionalism amongst the team members. My most productive projects have been in team rooms with everyone around one a big rectangular table. This included the project manager, business analysts, tech lead and developers...and as often as we could manage to get them also the product owner. Just my 2c.

    26. Re:Non sense by Purpendicular · · Score: 1

      Amen to that. Go read Peopleware by DeMarco and Lister. They have some data on this. What one has to remember is that "feeling creative" is not the same as "being creative".

      It takes 15 minutes to enter the creative state of flow. 10 five minute phone calls per day and people will have lost 200 minutes. Per day. Turn off the phone, msn, stop bothering people unnecessarily and get to work.

      This is why people come in at 6 to get 3 hours of actual work done before the managers arrive to start prattling, and this is why some work until 11 at night.

    27. Re:Non sense by Ritchie70 · · Score: 1

      My first job had 4 people in one room. This was a long time ago in a small, cheap company so we each had a standard 5-foot steel desk with a 386sx computer on it running Windows 3.11.

      The computers were slow, and we were just using them as terminals, so we made them take them out and give us serial terminals instead. (The serial cables were in place already, and the terminals was sitting on shelves in the back room.)

      There was one phone, on a file cabinet in the middle of the room. It had a long enough cord to reach all the desks.

      We were all from different enough backgrounds (the fresh-from-college nerd, the mom, the Chinese guy and the jock) that there wasn't a lot of wasted time on stupid conversations. And everyone was clean.

      --
      The preferred solution is to not have a problem.
    28. Re:Non sense by The+Shootist · · Score: 1

      Well ventilated individual offices . . .

    29. Re:Non sense by thygrrr · · Score: 1

      Decent in-ear Phones do not emit a lot of sound, but block most incoming noise.

      I use them every day. The best models are unfortunately at times so efficient that it requires people to tap your shoulder to actually get your attention when you're really focused.

      Man, I hate that. :-/

  9. trireme by smoothnorman · · Score: 1

    ...and if you don't code >X lines/day you're lower man on burrito madness day

    1. Re:trireme by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to work at a place like that. I thought they said "snort > X lines/day". hahaha, nobody seemed to find it as amusing but fuck them. good times, good times.

    2. Re:trireme by dotgain · · Score: 1

      Dad?

  10. How about by FShort · · Score: 1

    [insert "3rd world impoverished country willing to do the work for 1/5th the price" of your choice here]?

    1. Re:How about by Gamer_2k4 · · Score: 1

      Outsourced work is awful compared to in-house work. The company I work for outsources about half its software testing to China, and probably one of the eight or so Chinese workers is actually decent at it. The rest of us take a productivity hit because we have to manage both them and us, correcting their mistakes and doing their error checking because they don't care enough to.

  11. Scientific Evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    There are scientific studies that show significantly increased productivity by giving each developer their own office with a door they can close. Interruptions and distractions can torpedo productivity. These are mentioned, for example, in Steve McConnell's book, Rapid Development.

    The agile crowd claims that having all the developers together increases productivity because you might overhear a conversation and be able to contribute something of use. In support of this they cite only personal impressions and anecdotal evidence. I know of not a single scientific study that supports their claim.

    1. Re:Scientific Evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The place I work at now pretty much breaks every rule in that book although, I doubt I'm in the minority on this.

    2. Re:Scientific Evidence by e9th · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The door becomes a useful indicator of your willingness to be disturbed.

      Closed: Go away unless the situation is dire. I'm doing a performance review, interviewing an applicant, etc.
      Ajar: I'm concentrating, but if it's important, I'm available.
      Open: Let's talk.

    3. Re:Scientific Evidence by herojig · · Score: 1

      I agree with you and Steve McConnell. This is old school, and represents a day gone by, where employers spent the money on floorspace for productive employees, and actually trusted them to get the job done by giving them an office of their own. Newbs will never know this fringe benefit of working for a decent company because its no longer the case. I now own my own small business and work from a home office, that has a door, and a desk that faces that door. This is good feng shui and preferred strategy (see The Art of War). I feel sorry for all those that work in other configurations...Buddha help them.

      --
      I think therefore I can't be ~TTNH
    4. Re:Scientific Evidence by james_pb · · Score: 1

      Agreed. There is one sensible arrangement: 1 developer, 1 office. There are many other terrible arrangements.

      Interruptions need to go to zero. Intentionally creating a physical setup that increases interruptions is astonishingly stupid.

    5. Re:Scientific Evidence by TimurLeng · · Score: 1

      quote:The agile crowd claims that having all the developers together increases productivity because you might overhear a conversation and be able to contribute something of use. I tried that once and it only got me into trouble. People do not(!) appreciate it if you just "chip into" their conversation w/o being invited. Specially if you are either dead on right (makes someone else look bad) or dead on wrong (makes you look even worse) with your comment.

      --
      Free will is the illusion that our wits could compensate for our brain's faulty circuitry.
    6. Re:Scientific Evidence by spartan212 · · Score: 1

      There is a fine line between easy communication and just plain distraction. Personally, I think that a group of programmers all working at a big circular table as if they were having a family dinner creates a little too much togetherness.

      In the vein of scientific research, it has also been shown that Instant Messaging can be a valuable tool for communication and collaboration, because it allows a person to silently indicate their availability for all connected contacts to see. I would recommend a more separated seating arrangement that allows more privacy, and the use of an IM client for easy communication with team members and other co-workers.

    7. Re:Scientific Evidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, working as a tester in agile projects I can comment that you indeed hear all conversations going on around you at all times. Which made me unable to get any work done.
      That and being unable to function in agile environments as a tester made me rather unsuccessful with those projects.

  12. Best seating for 4 developer productivity? by Locke2005 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    4 windowless offices with 4 closed doors, all adjacent to each other. If they need to discuss, they can email or walk next door. Most of the "eXtreme Programming" techniques are things that good developers have been doing forever (like refactoring), but team programing is bullshit -- and if you really need to do that, you have a guest chair in every office.

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    1. Re:Best seating for 4 developer productivity? by archer,+the · · Score: 1

      This gets my vote. If one of the developers is talking (phone, another developer, boss, whoever), the other developers must filter out that extra noise to concentrate on their work. Some people do well at this. Some people will have a productivity hit.

    2. Re:Best seating for 4 developer productivity? by dubbreak · · Score: 5, Informative

      I strongly agree that developers need their own office with a door. There are times as a dev when you need to close the door and have no distractions for a few hours straight. A personal office allows that.

      At my work R&D has offices in a circle around a shared bench area. If you want to collaborate you can go to the center area or use someone's office. If you want to listen in you just have to leave your door open. If you need some privacy and no distractions you can close your door. Best of all worlds.

      --
      "If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
    3. Re:Best seating for 4 developer productivity? by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > There are times as a dev when you need to close the door and have no
      > distractions for a few hours straight.

      Yes. It's really hard to get a good nap in a cube farm.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    4. Re:Best seating for 4 developer productivity? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This gets my vote, too.

      A few months ago they rearranged the cubes at work so that the 4 people in my group now share a big cube, and I feel like my productivity has decreased. In fact, I'm pretty sure it's decreased for everybody else, too. It's simply not possible to not be distracted when another person in the cube has a visitor or talks on the phone. So what previously would have been an interruption for one person is now an interruption for four people.

      I'm also not convinced that the increased communication has been helpful. We certainly communicate more, but 9 times out of 10 it's not on work stuff. And even when it is work stuff, it's almost always something where you would have sent an IM or walked over to the other person's cube anyway.

      On the other hand, I may be a little biased because I'm easily distracted. I write my best code when I concentrate on what I'm trying to do, and it can take some effort even in a nice quite office. In a big group cube it's almost impossible.

      Then again, you can always ask the developers themselves. If communication is SO bad you can't ask their opinions on seating arrangement, you've got bigger problems.

    5. Re:Best seating for 4 developer productivity? by nschubach · · Score: 1

      You're in management, aren't you? Always assume the workers are screwing off?

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    6. Re:Best seating for 4 developer productivity? by uncqual · · Score: 1

      Absolutely. If the quality of the output isn't important enough to provide developers with an environment with minimal distractions, it's probably not worth paying US wages for and likely should be off-shored.

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
  13. Get them private spaces. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Imagine you're writing some code and I come in to ask a "real quick" question. "hey may, where the API key for project X stored?" Off the top of your head you might have an answer - but in that 3 second response you've stopped focusing on your project, I've broken your flow, etc. etc. etc.

    In a scenario where I can just look up and shout I'm farm more likely to interrupt you than I am to try a quick search through my inbox: you're right there so it's easy.
    If you're sitting 2 cubicles over then I have to get up and walk: the whole process might take me 15 seconds which puts the cost slightly higher than doing the search myself.
    If I'm in an office now you've got to get up, walk over, knock on the door, maybe two or three times (because I've got headphones on trying not to be disturbed).

    For your typical programmer type in a shared work space the giant DJ-style headphones often serve as a polite "do not disturb" sign but there are many who simply don't get the message (management, secretaries, project managers, clients touring the office, etc).

    You don't want to increase face-to-face communication between your developers all the time because programming is a solitary activity. You want to minimize the contact your developers have with the outside world when they don't want it, and make it as easy as possible for them to interact with one-another when they absolutely need it.

  14. Wha? by raddan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Fuck your bosses. People do code better in teams-- they just plain think better in teams. But you're going to burn them out if you force them to sit in circles.

    My suggestion is: encourage people to work in a central common area. Put a conference table there. Whiteboard. Snacks. Some stupid toy from ThinkGeek. But also give them a "home base" where they can check their email, make phone calls, have a little privacy. They need a place to recharge.

    "Coding errors" are not the problem-- those are easy to fix, because they're mostly typos. "Thinking errors" are the real problem. So make sure that their thinking environment is conducive to correct thinking. Shit-- if more developers used their brains before they touched a keyboard, the world would be a better place. When they're done thinking, they can go back to their desks and hammer out the code, because that's what coding should be: brainless hammering.

    1. Re:Wha? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A company (not an IT company) I have worked with on occasion has a similar setup for their technical teams. Offices arranged around a common work area. Tasks / projects that require collaborative work and meetings etc. are moved to the common area with large desks, whiteboards etc. Most people also have their own office, a shared office (2 people max and yes this was in a lot of cases related to seniority) or just some private desk space away from the crowd where they can do work where you need quiet. They've operated like this for at least 20 years and it works for them.

      I think a lot of problems with the cube farms is that people have grown used to them, there are generations of people who think that the idea is to pack people in as efficiently as you can. Different tasks require different environments and you need to take that into account when designing office space for a team. Getting some guy who has to ask Slashdot about round desks to design an office area would suggest that this company hasn't given this much thought and are stuck in the cube farm mentality.

    2. Re:Wha? by andr00oo · · Score: 5, Funny

      Fuck your bosses.

      Well, that's one way to get ahead....

    3. Re:Wha? by lwsimon · · Score: 1

      I agree with this. While I'm not technically a developer at the moment (I build complex Crystal Reports, and as much as SAP would disagree, Crystal isn't a real programming language), I hate working at my desk some days.

      There are times when I am so sick of the four walls of my cube I cannot focus on a task. When those days hit, I usually get a couple coworkers together and take over a small conference room. If it is a nice day, I may take my laptop and sit outside the building on the grass and work from there. I get some strange looks, but it's quite productive, and I avoid burning myself out so easily.

      If I had free reign to design the office, there would be a small conference room divided into 6 mini-cubes --- one for each person on the team. I'd take the main area where our cubes are now and turn it into a lounge. A couple of overstuffed chairs, maybe a beanbag or two, several coffee tables or end tables scattered about. Then I'd take the coffee station that is currently located in a crowded hallway and put it off to one side of this main room - give people a place to congregate and bounce ideas back and forth as they occur, instead of having to walk over to the other person's work area, interrupting your own workflow in the process.

      Then again, seeing how our office area is an alcove off of the executive conference area, I don't think it would go over well. It *would* be productive, though. Trucking companies aren't known for their fresh and new approach to... well, anything really.

      --
      Learn about Photography Basics.
    4. Re:Wha? by crazyvas · · Score: 2, Funny

      Fuck your bosses.

      Well, that's one way to get ahead....

      Well, that's one way for your boss to get head...

    5. Re:Wha? by uncqual · · Score: 1

      Well at least we agree that the world would be a much better place if developers would spend more time thinking and less time coding.

      Although there are certainly times when brainstorming et al is very helpful, good developers know when that's needed and seek it out -- there's no need to push it on them. I'm actually more likely to seek collaboration in a office environment. First, I only need to disturb one person. Second, I usually want to collaborate with a particular person or two for a particular problem -- I really don't want the input from people who know little about the problem or subsystem as it just distracts the conversation and extends its duration.

      In my experience, "team designs" addressing complex problems usually seem to work on the surface but often have serious and sometimes fatal flaws deep down (esp. in the areas of concurrency and fault recovery). Team design leaves too little time to linger on one person's passing concern - something that doesn't quite pass the sniff test - the team moves on.

      For simple things, if team design is needed, probably the problem is that most members of the team should find another career more suited to their interests/skills. None of this is to say that collaboration is not appropriate, but it's a small percentage of the time and the environment should be optimized for what is appropriate the majority of the time. This is especially the case if, as in the bullpen vs. cubicle vs. office discussion, structured collaboration is not interfered with in any way by selecting the same environment (offices) that optimizes that which one spends most of their time on.

      This seems like a religious argument on both sides. I've experienced "team design" type environments and, invariably, I can tear holes in the designs much more easily than in designs that were the product of one, or occasionally two, skilled developers. Perhaps somewhere there is an alternate universe where this is not true - I'd love to be a fly on the wall to see that to understand why it's not true (different problem domain? different developer experience level? different accountability? different priorities on quality vs. feature vs. schedule?)

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    6. Re:Wha? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, that's one way to get ahead....

      ...or get a head?

    7. Re:Wha? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you mean that is one way to give head, not get ahead?

    8. Re:Wha? by waimate · · Score: 1

      "Coding errors" are not the problem-- those are easy to fix, because they're mostly typos.


      10 PRINT "HELLO WIRLD"

      Is that the sort of thing you're talking about ?

      Or

      "Hey, peon, that was supposed to be an Accounts Receivable program, not a global greeting unit !"

      "Sorry Boss. Typo."

    9. Re:Wha? by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      There's a superfluous "a" in that last word.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
    10. Re:Wha? by Krannert+IT · · Score: 1

      We have tried to combine your idea of a a central common area with the private work space. I my office we have an open floor plan with L shaped desks which back up to each other. Each desk has a high (6') cabinet. This means that two people can turn around to talk to each other so if you have mini teams they can work together well and you can just shout across the room if you need to talk to someone else. There are 8 work spaces in the plan. I see pro's and cons with this set up. Colloboration is very easy and people are able to learn alot from each other. Some poeple seem to love this setup. Not one of them would rather be in a cube farm. All is not perfect in this enviornment either.

      One major problem is that one employee is loud and can distract the coworker behind her. I have also had employees in the past which have had a hard time tuning out the noise from the multiple conversations which can be going on at the same time.

      IM and EMail are great productivity tools but do little to foster a sense of team. From my experience building a coherent team requires more than building a paper trail to CYA as another poster mentioned, in fact this can be destructive toward a team enviornment as it allows people to place balme which I rarely try to do as a manager. I accept mistakes are going to happen and try to find a way to prevent them in the future by fixing a process or trainging, not by punnishing someone. The best teams actually do things together like going to lunch, pulling pranks, even occasionally going to a bar or something after work. A bad team does everything to avoid any additional contact with each other.

      I guess what I am really tring to say is that everyone is going to have a different preference and forcing a working enviornment on someone can have very negative effects. I can't imagine putting a team of programmers at a round table. Our layout would probably be better than that situation for most developers but it really comes down to the attitudes and work preferrences of each employee.

      I would ask the employees before doing anything, if they like the idea of a round table it is probably good but remember that they may not be there too long either and the next guy may be a great developer but not work in this environment.

    11. Re:Wha? by hkinthewind · · Score: 1

      Wholeheartedly agree :)

      --
      -= To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you and to hear the lamentations of their women =-
    12. Re:Wha? by raddan · · Score: 1

      Trucking companies aren't known for their fresh and new approach to... well, anything really.

      But it doesn't have to be that way. Computer science is really about thinking carefully about a method of doing something. Logistics are very important to trucking companies, and if there's one thing that computer scientists are good at, it's logistics.

    13. Re:Wha? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck your bosses.

      Well, that's one way to get head....

      There, fixed that for you.

    14. Re:Wha? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, since they're programmers they'll probably end up fucking their way to the bottom. Only executives fuck their way to the top.

    15. Re:Wha? by lwsimon · · Score: 1

      Yes, but to get to the level of management needed to push this kind of company-wide change, you must have Operations experience. Getting that experience tends to set your mind thinking into certain patterns.

      This industry is on the verge of being revolutionized, and is just ripe for it. There are countless things we do "because that's the way we've always done it".

      --
      Learn about Photography Basics.
  15. Use a square and face outward by bradford3454 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Had this exact situation. Use a square bull pen arrangement with work surfaces around the inside of the square. Put a single round table in the middle for collaborative meeting/discussions. Put the workstations in the 4 corners of the square facing outwards. The programmers get their privacy but are still working in a group. (entrance to the area is through an opening in one side of the square.)

    1. Re:Use a square and face outward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      The bullpen can work pretty well. I was most comfortable in one, at my previous job. We basically had a bunch of cubicle walls up, separating "our" space from a big hallway (it was originally meant to be some kind of foyer). We had three desks up, on different sides of the pen. But the nicest two things: we were far away from our "team leader" (who was very nice, and quite capable, but loved to interrupt us to shoot the shit -- though when he did visit, he would shoot the shit for about an hour), and we had much better control of our lighting than in any other space we used. We kept the fluorescent lights off and used halogen desk lamps if we wanted some task lighting. It was also pretty quiet there. We got more done in that hacker den than anywhere else in the building. We were ostensibly an XP team, but the dynamic changed for the better when I got there and made my mark.

      So, of course, our manager decided to move us to a brightly lit, loud, poorly laid out, shared space (shared with non-developers, who constantly jabbered about American Idol and other such crap).

    2. Re:Use a square and face outward by ducomputergeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is basically our set up only we have 4 L-shaped desks in the middle of each wall since one of our corners is occupied by the door. It works out nicely. They get room for their two monitors and a bit of privacy, but if they need something, it's roll over to the guy you need to talk to and figure it out.

      That being said, if you look at the code commits they do just as much from home from 10PM - 2AM as they do in the office from 11AM - 4PM.

      --
      "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    3. Re:Use a square and face outward by KoshClassic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Agree completely - I've sat in all sorts of office situations - shared a "private" office with other developers, individual cubes with high walls, low walls, etc. The best arrangement is the bullpen - 4 developers with their backs to one another but a circular table in between them. Its a great balance between privacy and being able to collaborate when they want to.

      --
      Understanding is a three edged sword. - Ambassador Kosh Naranek, Babylon 5
    4. Re:Use a square and face outward by MostAwesomeDude · · Score: 1

      We use a bullpen here at OSUOSL. Works just fine. No tables, though, just a fairly large cubicle with all of us facing outwards. I'd post photos if I had any.

      --
      ~ C.
    5. Re:Use a square and face outward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We've not quite got this due to our enlarged team, but a derivation on it (more rectangle than square), and has been the best way to get our team of 8 working together by far... previous attempts of 'facing each-other' were a complete disaster. Only improvement you need with larger teams is a separate mini-meeting area so not as to distract the whole team when a heated conversation sparks up.

    6. Re:Use a square and face outward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was in a desk arrangement like this once. It was "modular furniture" if you will, and the whole area (all of engineering) was divided into teams of 4. No table in the middle, but it was simple to spin around in your chair and ask somebody something.

      Just don't be the last guy to pick a desk, because then your monitor is in view of the hallway and it sucks because people will stare at it every single time they pass. So if you can help it, make sure monitors aren't immediately visible. At my office, Internet surfing was a no-no, but it was available for googling things. So you get pegged for "browsing" when you're really looking up something so you can get your job done.

    7. Re:Use a square and face outward by Handyman · · Score: 1

      Use a square bull pen arrangement with work surfaces around the inside of the square. Put a single round table in the middle for collaborative meeting/discussions.

      If programmers have to share an office, this would be the ideal arrangement. Its very space efficient (more so than sitting opposite each other), and its easy to collaborate by simply turning around and talking to your teammates. Furthermore, theres plenty of space behind each team members computer for everybody to stand or sit around and work on something together. It must be said that distractions are hell though. Sartre said, "Lenfer, cest lest autres." Damn right he was.

    8. Re:Use a square and face outward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a management knob!

      I have this arrangement right F'ing now and it sucks ----- Why? Oh how about the guy who thinks it's too much bother to call into telecons and actually hold the handset so EVERYONE gets to listen on speakerphone. And gives you shit when the otherside hears you breathing or something. Or the guy who decides it's time to test the backup sound of his module for 20 minutes or so.

      Real offices are the answer. As Jack Ganssle says, "Embedded software is the most expensive thing on the planet", why would you try and save a couple of bucks and throw productivity in the crapper?

  16. Cubicles by Anrego · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Seriously.. a well designed cube farm is pretty nice..

    Monitors should be positioned such that someone walking by can't see what's on the screen..

    As a programmer.. I hate all this "open concept" stuff. If I want to talk to someone.. I can get up and go visit them. Little pow wows around someones cubicle are insanely common where I work.. and very effective. Anything bigger than 3 or 4 people.. go find an empty room somewhere...

    1. Re:Cubicles by ztransform · · Score: 1

      I second cubicles. I need walls. So I can do whatever I need to do without thinking my monitor is on show for the world to see. If I want to spend short (sub minute) breaks browsing this or that, catching up with my personal life, then so be it. But if I feel forced to always "look like I'm working" I can guarantee you I will be unhappy. And when I'm unhappy I code very poorly.

      You have to have a level of trust in your developers. Development is not like laying bricks, it is a creative process. Emotional well being is extremely important in fostering creativity. Ever think you'd write a good wedding speech when you're unhappy or feeling like you're being constantly watched?

      Open plan is just wrong for developers.

      At a minimum have half height walls that make it difficult for neighbours to peer over. Plus they double as noticeboards that diagrams and notices can be pinned to.

    2. Re:Cubicles by CaroKann · · Score: 1

      Yes, believe it or not, cubicles work well. If they are high walled, make sure they are big enough to fit more than one person for small meetings. If they are low walled, then arrange the workspaces so that all four developers share the same hall and are facing away from one another while working on their computers. If there is room, you might try placing a meeting table in the hall, with a large portable whiteboard nearby. If one developer needs to talk to another, they just turn their chair and talk. I think this is a good compromise between privacy and collaboration.

    3. Re:Cubicles by funkatron · · Score: 1

      Walls or no walls (I'm into no walls), I wouldn't spend too long working in an environment where I felt I couldn't have a break for slashdot/xkcd/facebook. Taking a break isn't something you should have to hide.

      --
      "Welcome to our world. We are the wasted youth. And we are the future too." Yes, I know these are stupid lyrics.
    4. Re:Cubicles by ztransform · · Score: 1

      facing away from one another while working on their computers

      I've worked with lower walls where the developers faced each other and found that fine, you could bob your head up and say hi over the wall, and your monitors weren't in full view of each other (as they would be if you were in a square arrangement facing away from each other).

    5. Re:Cubicles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had cubicles a while back...

      Cubicles are opaque. A win. But they're sound transparent!

      When you can't see the people you are hurting, or the work you are destroying, there's no incentive to stop. (Even when you can, there are far too many sadistic Dilbert-ecse types out there who enjoy psychologically harming you.)

      As I say, I had cubicles a while back. As the most recent hire on that team, I received the cubicle next to the main corridor, about 20 feet from the elevators where everyone coming to the floor traveled. (3 floor building, about 1000 feet long. Lots of traffic!)

      On the other side of that main corridor, rough 8 feet away, was the kitchenette. Everyone went there to prepare their lunch, coffee, and snacks. They'd chat amongst themselves while doing so. Loudly. They had to talk loudly. That's were the floor's photocopier was located. A big, massive, noisy thing. With the collator attachment, of course.

      On the other side of my cubical wall was another programmer who really wanted a career change. (Having seen his code, that was a smart move.) Unfortunately, he wanted to be a sports agent. So he spent all day, every day, taking personal calls on the phone. I heard every word.

      In the next set of cubicles down the corridor was the purchasing department. They were also on the phone a lot!

      Adjacent to me sat yet another programmer. This fellow was the worst member of the team, unable to handle even a "for" loop. He had a lot of questions. When the answer didn't mesh with what his code did, he ask it again. And repeat until something changed. (Naturally, this did not involve him writing new code.)

      Did I mention the part where management turned the air conditioning off after hours to save money? (Thereby cooking the computers and any staff working overtime?)

      My productivity dropped substantially in cubicles...

      However, I was young, I needed experience, and they paid handsomely per hour. Not enough to keep me in the long run, but enough to pay off my college debts and put a down-payment on a house.

    6. Re:Cubicles by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      You need the high walls just to cut down on the noise. The weird three foot high wall things designed so bosses can monitor the call center slaves are lousy for developers. Some young kids may thrive with the hustle and bustle and clatter of keyboards, but peace and quiet is better for working.

      Of course, this is assuming software-only or web stuff. A lot of places also have to have lab space, which are by necessity open and large. But even there it can be annoying ("who just overwrote the firmware I've been working the last week?" "dude you forgot to put up the in use sign, sorry").

    7. Re:Cubicles by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1

      Monitors should be positioned such that someone walking by can't see what's on the screen...

      hehe... I'm sure that developers prefer it that way, but their managers care more about productivity. An being able to sneak up on somebody certainly increases the amount of work done, and decreases the amount of "research".

  17. Give me a cube. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've been working at this place programming exclusively for a few years now, and I don't like the open floorplan.

    The computer builders across the room dropping a case, asking about overclock settings don't bother me. The tech support talking, loosely separated by short cube walls, doesn't bother me. But my obnoxious coworker that drums on the desk, his earphones that are so loud I can make out everything he listens to, his extended and loud complaining when something doesn't go quite right, all constantly break my concentration. Add onto that the openness feeling and I don't have a cozy spot to call just my own.

    Combine that with the _too_ casual, cooperative stance and he asks me questions on stupid syntax errors he could fix in a few seconds and what I think about how he's doing something. While good, they're excessive, and having cube walls to walk around as opposed to talking at his monitor seeking my attention might prevent some of the more menial stuff. Though maybe some of the less menial stuff, too.

    In general, I find it _very_ hard to work without my own cube, and my "zone time" is drastically reduced compared to my internship years ago where I had my own cubicle.

    Open floor plan for those that need to concentrate deeply is a NO GO for me. The round table is out. What happens when someone needs to talk to someone two people over? Will they get up? or will the two people talk into alternating ears of the poor sob in between them? That wreaks hell on my brain.

    Personal space, too. I use about half arm's reach -- cups, chips, box of dry cereal, cell phones, netbook, books, tea set, hard drives, barcode scanner, switches, KVM, .... how much room are you going to allow to sprawl out? Is absolutely everyone able to control, or OK with, encroachment?

  18. It all depends... by TomXP411 · · Score: 1

    ...on the people in question. My favorite setup is individual offices for day to day work, but with space for collaboration when the situation calls for it. (For example, we had a push to get a bunch of items fixed before a big release, so 3 of us got together in one big office and worked down the list.) Good, dedicated coders will do the job anywhere, but having an arrangement that facilitates communication can help. For it to work, though, you need guys (or ladies) who can get along well together and will focus on work, rather than random chat. That same arrangement makes it easier to goof off, too, and you could well find that instead of sharing code, they're sharing the latest YouTube videos. It also eliminates privacy, so if any of them have to take phone calls on a regular basis, you need to consider equipping them with laptops and making a "break-in" room available for calls and teleconferences. It can also be rough on concentration, since some people can't tolerate chatter when trying to focus. Whatever you do, don't create an environment where the boss is constantly looking over everyone's shoulder. That just raises the stress level, which will definitely increase errors.

    1. Re:It all depends... by girlgeek54 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Completely agree. Need private office with a collaboration area or lab. In 27 years of sw engineering, that was the best, most productive setup. The team would congregate in the lab every day for an hour or two, but when we really needed to buckle down and seriously code, the private office was great.

  19. Shared offices by xenoc_1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Offices with doors that close. Big whiteboard in each office. Couple of guest chairs. Two developers to each office. Desks on opposite sides of room so they aren't stuck elbow to elbow, but still can swivel and wheel over to the other.

    I worked at one company that did this in their LA branch office. I was in NYC but flew out there a few times a year. Most productive setup I've seen. Physical layout offers quiet, respect for technologists, room for collaboration whether pair programming, "other set of eyes", or effective (as in small =5 people) meetings, prevention of "mismanagement by walking around".

    Nobody will do it nowadays. Those offices are given to clueless middle managers instead.

    1. Re:Shared offices by ubergeek09 · · Score: 1

      I actually know of a tech company that does this. I'm only a student so I don't know much about this, but I had a tour of a company's headquarters outside Madison, Wi and it wasn't bad at all. They took the approach that to get the most out of every developer each developer needed his/her own office (with a door that closes)...and they didn't have a dress code either.

    2. Re:Shared offices by MarcoAtWork · · Score: 1

      cool that some companies do exist that actually still have this, which company is it? they deserve a mention :)

      Personally I find the OP's question laughable, I can't think of how people could be productive in such an arrangement but then again I do code at my best when there are absolutely zero distractions (no overhearing people gabbing, no people walking in front of me, just a nice big window and lots of sunlight)

      --
      -- the cake is a lie
    3. Re:Shared offices by EQ · · Score: 1

      Tech company I worked for in Boulder still does it that way: Everyone was issued a laptop, each gets a docking station and 2 24" LCD monitors and an ergo keytray in the office, L shaped desk, bookshelf and whiteboard at the desk. Normally 2 to an office, with a door. The best arrangement I've seen is several of these 2 person offices along a hall with a collaboration room at one end of the hall, Collab room has electronic whiteboard, projector, big color laser copier and printer, meeting table & chairs, video conf unit (connected to the projector, camera up by the screen), a chilled and heated filtered water thingy, and a fridge. No microwave or sink: they were in the break room on a different floor so no burned popcorn or broccoli or stinky fish! Work alone or in pairs, bring laptop out for collab issues and meetings. Leave door open if you want to hear or be heard. Manager gets a solo office at the entry area, so meetings don't disturb the rest of the team.

      Very productive. I guess that's how they got through the last 3 years with only 1 person laid off from a staff of 200+

      --
      Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo! http://goo.gl/J9bkO
    4. Re:Shared offices by ubergeek09 · · Score: 1

      If I was going into a computer science field I would definately want to work for a company like that.

    5. Re:Shared offices by cowdung · · Score: 1

      Wow.. you're saying this as if it were news.

      I know that 10 years ago Microsoft and many other companies in the northwest had a 1 person per office policy (when it came to developers).

      The reason is that people had read Tom DeMarco's "Peopleware"!

    6. Re:Shared offices by doktor-hladnjak · · Score: 1

      Actually, Microsoft generally has a policy of giving each employee their own office. In certain parts of the company there are crowding problems, but it's rare to be more than paired up even in those groups.

  20. NO. Creative work requires some feng shui by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    as in, not placing people's backs facing empty spaces, doors, windows etc. these all disturb the psyche in a subconscious level because they will feel unsafe little by little, even if they dont feel it. (ie remnant of human species' instincts while we were living in wild - defense against predators)

    facing someone else, seeing someone else's face also distracts. leave aside the potential annoyance they can create with their movements, mimics, music and whatnot.

    you should pick the most comfortable and ergonomic chairs and monitor-desk setup, so that they can work longer without getting tired. research on computer usage ergonomy a bit on the net.

    there is no need for 'face to face' collaboration. you will have either instant messengers, or some kind of intranet messenger already handy. or a chat environment. its easier to attend a chat conference than having to listen to other people. while 3 people is doing a live conference, 1 talks, the rest listen, not able to do anything else. but with chat or im, all can drop their opinion, respond to others' and multitask their work in the meantime. you do not need to wait someone else to vocalize a thought by long sentences.

    blah blah blah.

    1. Re:NO. Creative work requires some feng shui by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are absolutely right about the ergonomics, but the original question also asked about a "round table". This is absolutely the worst thing you can do and will end up hurting the employees. Not only do they need an ergo chair and proper keyboard, but the proper keyboard height, monitor height, etc. This cannot be achieved with a shared table. Some folks are taller or shorter than others. Even those with the same height have different length torso, etc. They need to be able to adjust their desk height (some with old fashioned "standard" desks can do so by placing or removing lifts under the desk feet, or better yet, the sit-stand hydraulic desks adjust to any height and can be moved during the day to break up static posture.). With the old standard desk, you want an adjustable keyboard tray. You also want to have foot rests available in case the lowest height the desk can be set to is still to tall for one or more of the people. Definitely do NOT make them code on a notebook keyboard. If they use notebooks, get them docks with external monitor, keyboard, and mouse. You probably expect these folks to work for quite some time so don't purposefully hurt them. I'm glad our company puts such an emphasis on ergonomic safety (and NO, I don't work in the ergo field). We even have to run Workpace ergo software that tells us when to take a break.

  21. Sickness by toolo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Yes the fad are Agile teams that all sit next to one another... but people tend to forget you will be down 1 FTE regularly because you all sneeze and cough on each other. Sickness runs rampant in those rooms... particularly if you have someone who is not hygienic in the group.

  22. An office by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Jesus God stop trying stupid shit just leave me in peace you fucks.

    --
    <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    1. Re:An office by raddan · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wow, talk about having an appropriate username. What happens when you hit 20?

    2. Re:An office by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      agreed totally. some people like their privacy and prefer not to have other people in their faces all day.

    3. Re:An office by ewertz · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but he's right, you know.

    4. Re:An office by Jacked · · Score: 1

      We have a winner! This has got to be the most concise and accurate response to the question. Thank you, sir!

    5. Re:An office by ciaohound · · Score: 1

      What happens when you hit 20?

      Does this have a punchline, or are we just supposed to know it already, like "Why is 6 afraid of 7?" or "What did 0 say to 8?"

      --
      Oh, yeah, it's not easy to pad these out to 120 characters.
    6. Re:An office by Fnkmaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What the fuck is with these moronic companies that hire all these software engineers and then cheap out when it comes to physical plant? I mean, you must pay these guys 60-80k a year each, plus benefits. Figure 4 of them cost you 400k a year total, when you include cost of benefits.

      Why in the hell would you want to cram them all into 100 square feet of bullpen shit cube space and waste at least a hundred thousand bucks a year worth of productivity? Lease expense for even the finest of office space is what, 30 bucks a square foot a year, so to give them 400 square feet of space (four 100 square foot offices) costs you at most an extra $9000 a year for the whole team in question.

      That's about 2% of what you are spending on these 4 developers each year. It's a fricking rounding error. Shit, if it makes them happy and gets them to be even 5% more productive, it's well worth it. In reality, the difference between a non-productive, noisy office environment and a productive, happy quiet one is more like 50%-100% from my personal experience.

    7. Re:An office by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 1

      "I'm not looking over their shoulder 8/5 therefore they are browsing Facebook all day" is what this all really comes from, all this other stupid shit is just avoiding saying that aloud.

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    8. Re:An office by Clubbah · · Score: 1

      This is the correct answer. We also would have taken "offices."

    9. Re:An office by mooingyak · · Score: 1

      You switch to a different song?

      --
      William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
    10. Re:An office by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell me about it. I make more than the numbers you quoted and yet I am stuck down in a freaking basement, sharing a cube with another guy. Plus, I have a shitty ancient CRT monitor which they won't let me replace with one I am willing to purchase. WTF

    11. Re:An office by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No idea, but when he hits 21, he's having sex. No wait, this is slashdot... so nothing really.

    12. Re:An office by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What happens when you hit 20?

      Apparently you go on perfecting ways of making sealing wax.

    13. Re:An office by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      It's utter stupidity. Like the other responder, I make quite a bit more than the numbers you quoted, yet I'm stuck in a bullpen too, completely unable to concentrate. It's not really cheapness I think; these stupid-ass executives actually think it's more productive if everyone can talk with each other all day, since that's all the stupid executives do. What's really strange about it though is that the executives who came up with this dumb seating arrangement all have private offices.

  23. Sounds cramped by funkatron · · Score: 1

    Sitting everyone round a table sounds like it could get a bit cramped. Development tends to generate loads of notebooks, post-its, design scribbles etc. Put those on a round table and you're going to get people running into each others mess.

    Personally, I like to be in an open-ish (not too big, definitely not a cube) space with an area that's clearly identifiable as my desk. A nice cask nearby also helps but I havent been able to sell the idea to management.

    --
    "Welcome to our world. We are the wasted youth. And we are the future too." Yes, I know these are stupid lyrics.
  24. A cross with medium height partitions by Zocalo · · Score: 1

    Four L-shaped desks arranged to form a cross with modest height dividers (about eye level when seated) that can double as pinboards along the joins. The height of the dividers needs to be tall enough that someone can get their head down and not be distracted when they need to, but low enough so they can look over to talk without having to stand up. Optionally provide a shelf that clips onto the dividers for additional surface space and/or a small magnetic whiteboard that will also hang from the dividers on a person by person basis.

    --
    UNIX? They're not even circumcised! Savages!
    1. Re:A cross with medium height partitions by Rockenreno · · Score: 1

      We do basically this, except that we use our monitors as the walls. Dual 26 inchers do the trick nicely, though adding a few more wouldn't hurt!

      --

      Forecast for tomorrow: A few sprinklings of genius with a chance of DOOM!
    2. Re:A cross with medium height partitions by bguiz · · Score: 1

      Yup - that is exactly what I have got at work as well. I think the half-height walls are great cos they give you your own private area where you can zone out just code - but you still have the options of standing up to have a chat with anyone else on the team.

      The only problem I have with it are the L-shaped desks. These are problematic when two or more developers are looking at the same screen - which I find happens quite often, especially when making architectural decisions about the software, and when one dev is showing another dev how to do ${programmingTask}. What tends to happen is we push the chair out of the corner of the L, and both of us sit on the table, which is not ideal.

      I think the best desk configuration would be a cross shape, with half height walls, and straight (not L-shaped) desks.

      Oh, and throw in one pair of noise-cancelling headphones for each dev. Those are worth their weight in gold in increasing productivity.

    3. Re:A cross with medium height partitions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What tends to happen is we push the chair out of the corner of the L, and both of us sit on the table, which is not ideal.

      Wait, no shit? Really? Someone mod this guy up insightful.

      Sorry, really not trying to be snarky ...

  25. Save your asses by CaptSaltyJack · · Score: 1

    Not quite related to layout, but this is rather about the desk setup: do everyone a favor and get adjustable height desks that allow you to use traditionally (seated), or raise up and use standing up. Developers sit all day, and as a result, their glutes sustain a lot of damage and atrophy. Basically they're in a static stretch all day long, which is not good. Standing workstations are great, but sometimes people will want to sit, so I think adjustable height is the way to go. Better for your backs, and you'll save your asses. Literally.

  26. Pod farms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I never understood why developers, which mostly do a job that requires a great deal of concentration, are usually stuck in the most distracting locations. While the excel/outlook jockey's are in offices.

  27. Aspergers much? by kosmonot · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Arthurian setup would suck for high functioning autistics. Sounds like a job for Temple Grandin.

  28. Backs to each other, table in center by Eponymous+Bastard · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I once worked in a somewhat similar arrangement. We had L-shaped desks in a cross arrangement. Each person sat in one of the inside corners of the cross.

    Pros:
    - It was easy to talk to each other.
    Cons:
    - It was harder to look at the person across from you over the monitors
    - If you ever wanted to show each other your code, one of you had to walk around the desk or roll around it in your chair.

    That last one was the dealbreaker. It might be easier on a round table (but then each would have very little room for their stuff), but you'd have the same problem to talk to someone who is not right next to you: you'd still have to walk around your neighbors.

    I'm currently working in another department with the same desks, but arranged as the outside of the square. Takes up about the same space but it is much easier to roll over to someone's desk and work with them. You can take your laptop if you want (and wifi permitting).

    And let's face it, it's just as easy to turn around to talk to someone behind you as to someone next to you. And if they are wearing headphones they won't hear you either way. Add rolling chairs and anything but carpet and it's just as easy to take something to show them too. Even without the corner desks, you can set them up in two rows back to back and it still works.

    You could add a small central table for quick meetings, but I prefer the back to back arrangement any day.

    (And people tend not to slack off as much because someone might be looking over their shoulder :) )

    1. Re:Backs to each other, table in center by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Going from a swastica pattern to a square you mean?

    2. Re:Backs to each other, table in center by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "- If you ever wanted to show each other your code, one of you had to walk around the desk or roll around it in your chair."
      Why don't you just have him VPN in?

  29. in offices by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

    in their own offices. or if you don't have the resources for individual offices, individual cubicles with some "large"* informal meeting are nearby.


    *big enough to hold the entire team, plus anyone they might be pulling in on something.

    and for the love of god[des[es]|s] please give them a quality keyboard to type on, with quality being defined as whatever they want.

    --
    Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    1. Re:in offices by lwsimon · · Score: 1

      That's funny - I'm the "keyboard guy" at work. I have a small cabinet dedicated to them in my cube, and whenever someone gets a new PC, the first thing they do is come get one of the older-style keyboards that they prefer. IT wants to take the "old" ones, which are far better than the new pieces of shit they ship these days.

      I use a personal Model M, with my name engraved in BIG letters on the back and a 2-line LED display hacked onto the upper right. Even so, those fuckers in IT have tried to take it twice now to give me a "new" one.

      --
      Learn about Photography Basics.
  30. Group of 4, good, but concerned about tables... by BobPaul · · Score: 1

    The best arrangement I've been in is with 4 devs in a group, but each dev has 3 tables. Front, left, and right. Cube wall blocks in group of four with back to each other, but it's easy to turn around and convers, plus we had a hell of a lot of room to spread our work out on. I suppose a desktop software developer could get by with less room, since having bench equipment (oscopes, signal generators, etc) at hand aren't really helpful, but I'm sure you could find a use for the space...

    And having our backs to each other had the added effect of keeping us honest... you don't want your co-workers to see you're always on slashdot...

  31. Jesus fuck, all managers are morons by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    There is a whole book, "Peopleware" by Tom DeMarco and some other guy, about shit like this. The most important thing developers need is peace and quiet.

    This comment gives the answer pretty well. Put two people in each office. Not more. Not less. Any more than two in an office and the conversation and distractions kill productivity. One person in office = thumb twiddling and pr0n surfing. Zero people in office = empty room, nothing happens. You want exactly two. Heaven.

  32. Sitting around a circle... by ADRA · · Score: 1

    Means that when I want to look at the screen of my coworker across from me, I have to run around half the table to see it... Sitting in your typical square cubicle-type style means I can seem me peer's screen easily reducing potential wasted time. Plus it makes them less likely to surf for porn knowing there's potentially 3 people looking over their back =)

    --
    Bye!
  33. Not A Round Table by b4upoo · · Score: 1

    There were some studies years ago about round rooms and employees going psychotic. Humans seem to need corners and barriers. I would suggest a large square or rectangular table. Also when you use a round table over weight employees tend to be pushed back as the position causes them to be stabbed in the gut. Perhaps a square with an opening in the center for cables to drop down and lines to feed in might be best.

  34. Good plan by TiggertheMad · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I am a developer, and I work under these exact conditions. We have two banks of desks grouped together in the middle of a open room. It is very conducive to collaboration, and it can get noisy when people get going. There is some group goofing off that occurs, but no more so than any other work arrangement I have seen. Most of us have some headphones, and so getting some quiet to focus inst really a problem.

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
    1. Re:Good plan by nschubach · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The current situation I'm in: (Yes, it's a rant...)

      I sit in a half cubicle (where the wall only wraps the desk and no more and it's short enough to peek over without standing) and right next to me is my boss. Everyone else on our team is in different states. My desk also happens to be right next to the break room where people religiously burn popcorn, microwave fish, and speak to each other as if they are in a stadium because the television is turned up loud enough to drown out said people. There is someone about 12 feet behind me in a similar such cube whom I constantly hear sucking on one of those water bottles and randomly taking a bite out of an apple or other similar food product. I get a whole 5 minutes a day to do something that's not "work related" because someone thought it would be a great idea to take our Scrum process and turn it into a timesheet detailing what we did the previous day and if we don't account for at least 6 hours of work, who knows what will happen. But we are asked on our Scrum meetings to justify at least 6 hours of work.

      My only solitude is late at night when most of the people have gone home, and that's when I get the most work done.

      We used to be able to work from home, but some idiot decided it would be best to move to a VPN system that requires system validation to determine if you are on a work Laptop before granting you access to RDP to your own PC and I am not in a line of work that "requires a laptop." Said VPN system limits me to only browsing web pages. Big waste of time and resources since they are paying for my RSA token and account access that I can no longer use.

      My suggestion for the OP... ask your developers. If you have the chance to give your developers a choice, DO IT! Then ask them again in 6 months to see if the situation is working. Above all, give them a chance to find a quiet place and don't force them into an open arena where people are constantly looking over their shoulder.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    2. Re:Good plan by buchner.johannes · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is some group goofing off that occurs, but no more so than any other work arrangement I have seen.

      Best arrangement I have seen:
        - 2, maximal 3 people per room
        - large desks, large monitors
        - keep it quiet, put some plants there
        - make it easy to collaborate without interrupting people (e.g. Instant messages*)
        - Block Youtube et. al., they eat your time

      * Instant messengers allow you to signal when you want to be left alone, and the program postpones showing you incoming messages.

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    3. Re:Good plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I also work in this environment and believe it forces open communication. No one can hide and there should be nothing to hide at work, unless of course you are lazy and want to stay that way. In my area we all face one another in a grouping of desks/tables. There are no cubes or walls. We have even made it a rule to keep the monitors low enough that we can see one another's eyes. People start learning each others nonverbal cues quickly. We know if someone has a problem or disagrees even without them saying it. There is nowhere to go and hid or pout. If you have a problem, you have to explain it and make it public. Of course if it isn't work related and personal we step out to make a call the family. This is very difficult for a lot of people at first. Many people aren't that open with their family let alone with their coworkers. The level of efficiency and cohesiveness gained is astounding. This type of environment isn't for everyone or for every development methodology. This setup is more critical for an Agile as opposed to Waterfall SDLC. When we switched to this setup some decided to leave, but we are better for it in the long run.

    4. Re:Good plan by safetyinnumbers · · Score: 3, Funny

      My desk also happens to be right next to the break room where people religiously burn popcorn, microwave fish,

      There could be another reason for that: http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2008-11-02/

    5. Re:Good plan by MikeFM · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I just got into our network gear and routed an external IP to an internal system of my choice with my own VPN software installed. Who the heck uses the network access their boss decides they need? Are we geeks or not!?

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    6. Re:Good plan by kaiidth · · Score: 1

      We have a moderately large office, three to four permanent staff, and a bunch of students. We ended up getting each developer a large desk plus an extra table. That meant that people can work together with each other/visiting students when they want without having to get right into each others' personal space, but they still get some illusion of distance from everybody else the rest of the time. But yes - three is enough people in a room. We're lucky that the configuration of the room means that at least noone else is in visual range when you're at your desk, but you can still hear each others' conference calls.

      Really good headphones are an important part of making it work for us, and even then it doesn't always work too well. One creepy guy joins the team and everybody suddenly comes up with perfect reasons to work from home. So, fortunate hiring (and good hiring skills) probably would help a lot too, but short of that management needs to keep an eye on the working atmosphere and fiddle with the variables if it's not going well.

      Regarding instant messaging, you're quite right. We've established a few habits of when to try to be online, but in practice, most people have so many problems with random unwanted messages from random stalkers that they set themselves to invisible if the client allows it. Instant messaging benefits a lot from a fine-grained access model - 'I'd like my family to be able to see that I'm online except for the hours between 9 and 5; I'd like my co-workers to see me as online between 9 and 12 and 3 and 5; I'd like that creepy woman who nonetheless happens to be an important customer of ours to be unable to detect that I am online at all, unless I specifically have to be online for a meeting with her.'

    7. Re:Good plan by Abcd1234 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Best arrangement I have seen:
          - 2, maximal 3 people per room
          - large desks, large monitors
          - keep it quiet, put some plants there
          - make it easy to collaborate without interrupting people (e.g. Instant messages*)
          - Block Youtube et. al., they eat your time

      I was with you up until that last one. Eliminating the ability for developers to take mental breaks is a great way to just piss people off. If your developers aren't disciplined enough to control their Youtube watching, such that it impacts project deadlines, you have far bigger problems. You shouldn't need to babysit your people.

    8. Re:Good plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you have the ability to schedule a conference room? Can you schedule it for an 8-hour one-person meeting, every day?

    9. Re:Good plan by GigaplexNZ · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Regarding instant messaging, you're quite right. We've established a few habits of when to try to be online, but in practice, most people have so many problems with random unwanted messages from random stalkers that they set themselves to invisible if the client allows it. Instant messaging benefits a lot from a fine-grained access model - 'I'd like my family to be able to see that I'm online except for the hours between 9 and 5; I'd like my co-workers to see me as online between 9 and 12 and 3 and 5; I'd like that creepy woman who nonetheless happens to be an important customer of ours to be unable to detect that I am online at all, unless I specifically have to be online for a meeting with her.'

      Or, you know, have a separate account specifically for work.

    10. Re:Good plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Block Youtube et. al., they eat your time

      I strongly disagree with this statement. Blocking should be done by the developers themselves, NOT as a decision from above.

    11. Re:Good plan by slapout · · Score: 1

      Headphones and/or earplugs

      --
      Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
    12. Re:Good plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Everyone's different. Me, I can't stand being faced across from someone else. It's distracting - are they looking at me? Am I staring at them while thinking? Could be a social phobia of mine, but it's still a reality.

    13. Re:Good plan by buchner.johannes · · Score: 0, Troll

      Eliminating the ability for developers to take mental breaks is a great way to just piss people off.

      You need mental breaks, true. Stand up every 60 minutes. Go for a 5 minute walk.

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    14. Re:Good plan by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      You need mental breaks, true. Stand up every 60 minutes. Go for a 5 minute walk.

      Ah, I see, so you feel you're brilliant enough to decide for everyone else how they should take their breaks.

      Awesome.

    15. Re:Good plan by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      Regarding instant messaging, you're quite right. We've established a few habits of when to try to be online, but in practice, most people have so many problems with random unwanted messages from random stalkers that they set themselves to invisible if the client allows it.

      Just deploy an internal Jabber or IRC server for corporate communications. Problem solved. And as a bonus, you don't find yourself broadcasting company information on the intarwebs.

    16. Re:Good plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      don't block any site. if you don't trust your developers, get new ones. If you don't have enough knowledge to know if they're producing or not, fire yourself. If i want to watch a youtube video my bud at xyz company sent me, i'd better be able to. Or maybe I'll work at xyz company.

    17. Re:Good plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's worse? Curry or fish?

    18. Re:Good plan by Bob+Cat+-+NYMPHS · · Score: 2, Informative

      You might want to reconsider doing such things - you could end up in prison.

      http://www.lightlink.com/spacenka/fors/

      "In late July 1995, a trial jury convicted Schwartz of three felony counts under Oregon's Computer Crime Law. The charges related to his activities while working as a consultant at an Intel Corporation facility in Beaverton, Oregon."

    19. Re:Good plan by mwvdlee · · Score: 3, Funny

      Like in prison, but more regularly.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    20. Re:Good plan by stephanruby · · Score: 2, Informative

      - Block Youtube et. al., they eat your time

      Don't block YouTube/Google Videos/Vimeo, they might actually need those for their job. If your developers have a problem with YouTube, tell them to stop going on it. Do not rely on technology to solve a management/employee problem. A goof off will always find something to distract him, even if he doesn't have access to youtube.

    21. Re:Good plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope your not working at a financial institution because when they find your backdoor your arse will be toast.

    22. Re:Good plan by teg · · Score: 2, Informative

      My desk also happens to be right next to the break room where people religiously burn popcorn, microwave fish, and speak to each other as if they are in a stadium because the television is turned up loud enough to drown out said people. There is someone about 12 feet behind me in a similar such cube whom I constantly hear sucking on one of those water bottles and randomly taking a bite out of an apple or other similar food product

      Try some noise canceling head phones - I recommend Bose QuietComfort 15, and most background noise just disappear. I've had noise canceling headsets before, but this one was leagues ahead of my old ones (in price too... but it was worth it).

      You don't have to play music for them to be useful, I often just turn them on to blank out noise. It won't protect you from emails constantly arriving, or co-workers approaching you, but it will help with noise not targeted at you.

    23. Re:Good plan by c-reus · · Score: 2, Informative

      - 2, maximal 3 people per room

      4 or 5 is ok, too, IMO but only if all of them are in the same team (QA in one section of the office, office IT in another, etc). After all, the reason why the people are organized into different rooms is to encourage them to work better as a team.

      - large desks, large monitors

      The desks should be arranged so that one person can't see other person's screen. Everyone facing towards the center of the room, for example.

      - keep it quiet, put some plants there

      Provide the employees good headphones or encourage them to buy those themselves. Have soundproof conference rooms that people can use for phone conferences or even regular phone calls. Having to listen business people talk on the phone 8 hours per day is quite horrible.

      - make it easy to collaborate without interrupting people (e.g. Instant messages*)

      This is a must. Get everyone a jabber account (set up a local server for that) or if you're into Microsoft software, use Office Communicator. Make sure every employee can contact any other employee via the instant messenger. Make sure that private contacts cannot be added, thus enforcing the "use this only for work related stuff" mentality.

      - Block Youtube et. al., they eat your time

      I disagree with this for a few reasons.
      Firstly, watching some instructional Youtube video may actually help if the employee is stuck with some problem (granted, this is not a common case but realistic nonetheless).

      Secondly, you can't force people to work 8 or more consecutive hours. Unless you handcuff me to a chair, I will take a few minute breaks every now and then either to rest my eyes from staring at the screen or get my mind off the task I'm working on. I can read the news in Slashdot or the dead-tree newspaper near the coffee machine - is there a principial difference? Punishing me for doing this is unfair and makes me question the manager's sanity.

      Thirdly, there are better ways to raise the efficiency of an employee. Have regular status update meetings (at most 20 minutes long per team) where every team member has to explain what tasks has he/she completed after the previous meeting. Constantly reporting simplistic tasks like deploying new version of some piece of software in local development environment means that either you have serious problems with the environment or you aren't trying hard enough. Either way, the manager should then go to the employees desk to see what exactly the problem is.

      Having to improvise on those meetings (inventing tasks that haven't been done for example) and sounding believable at the same time is quite difficult.It is much easier to talk about the things that have actually been done.

      If you find out that an employee is watching Youtube or reading Slashdot all day long, have a strongly worded chat with him and if that doesn't work, fire the person. By blocking various sites, you're effectively saying that you don't trust the employees to be able to manage their working time. A successful working relationship is built on mutual trust. Unless you really lock down the computers (no software installations, no browser configuration of any kind), there are ways around the block.

    24. Re:Good plan by vertinox · · Score: 1

      - Block Youtube et. al., they eat your time

      Youtube does have some extremely useful tutorials for certain software packages these days.

      --
      "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
      -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
    25. Re:Good plan by kaiidth · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that would be a good plan, but for some reason most staff won't do it. I really have no idea why not, but it's probably the same thing that causes people to use the same password for absolutely everything in sight. That said, a second account still wouldn't solve the 'creepy work-related stalking' problem anyway.

    26. Re:Good plan by springbox · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, being in an open office can be a bit noisy and distracting. This is exactly why I have these jammed in my ears all day. Of course, having a workspace with better isolation (aka an office) would be even better.

    27. Re:Good plan by lukas84 · · Score: 1

      And people ask why our developers don't get any access to our production systems, because what you did there just fucked up any security concept your company might have had.

      Then again, i'm never one that wants to keep people from working. We're using Microsoft's RD Gateway to provide simple and easy access to your PC from home, and several of our developers have gotten work laptops and a docking station, so they can take their whole work home, if they want to (or keep the laptop running and RDP into it from the home PC).

    28. Re:Good plan by lukas84 · · Score: 1

      Erm, you should use your companies IM network for your work related stuff. We use Microsoft's OCS, which is very nice, but there are plenty of open source alternatives.

    29. Re:Good plan by lukas84 · · Score: 1

      Don't block Youtube, but monitor it's usage. If you have a developer thats not very productive but spends most of his workday on Youtube, fire him. Much more efficient. People will always find ways not to work, but if you allow the default ones, you can track how much they don't work.

    30. Re:Good plan by pz · · Score: 1

      Start looking for a new job: your current situation sounds bad for your long-term health.

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    31. Re:Good plan by hkinthewind · · Score: 1

      I agree with this completely except for the blocking of websites. Everyone needs a palate cleanser from time to time. As long as people aren't spending their entire day on Youtube, etc, there's no reason to block it. Now, porn sites, etc are another story.

      --
      -= To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you and to hear the lamentations of their women =-
    32. Re:Good plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are porn sites another story? From a companies perspective you are interested that your workers invest their time in your products. That dancing puppy videos are socially acceptable, but porn is not shouldn't concern you.

      Workers do not have the right to do whatever they want. This may be phrasing it too strong, and I am also against blind website blocking from the people above.
      Throttling into oblivion is much more efficient anyway.

    33. Re:Good plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was a suggestion for each dev to do for her/himself, not as an rule given from management. I was suggesting that looking away from the monitor is more effective in refreshing ones mind (and quicker) than surfing around.
      I guess some moderator (and you) misinterpreted that as an insulting command. Oh well...

    34. Re:Good plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is some group goofing off that occurs, but no more so than any other work arrangement I have seen.

      Best arrangement I have seen:

        - 2, maximal 3 people per room

        - large desks, large monitors

        - keep it quiet, put some plants there

        - make it easy to collaborate without interrupting people (e.g. Instant messages*)

        - Block Youtube et. al., they eat your time

      * Instant messengers allow you to signal when you want to be left alone, and the program postpones showing you incoming messages.

      Blocking Youtube and other media type sites is dependent on the line of work. If you work in Web Development, that would very likely be counter-productive.

      I can't count how many times I've had to request the unblocking of websites because I require them to do my work.

    35. Re:Good plan by Ritchie70 · · Score: 1

      I have a very technical job in what is fundamentally not a technology company. (We're almost a shrink-wrap software house inside a giant retailer, doing software strictly for our stores.)

      I constantly bang into the "Websense" deployment, because one of its filters is "hacking." Well damn it, it's the hackers who have figured out some of the stuff I need to know. Sometimes there's a demo or something else that is a video on YouTube or one of the others, so don't block that stuff just because you don't need it.

      --
      The preferred solution is to not have a problem.
    36. Re:Good plan by Abcd1234 · · Score: 1

      It was a suggestion for each dev to do for her/himself, not as an rule given from management.

      Well, no, that's not true. Eliminate things like YouTube, and you've effectively decided for those devs how they'll take their breaks, haven't you?

      I was suggesting that looking away from the monitor is more effective in refreshing ones mind (and quicker) than surfing around.

      For you that might be true. For others, it might not be. The point is, by eliminating options, you don't give the developers any choice in the matter, all because you, apparently, feel they can't manage their time effectively on their own.

      I guess some moderator ... misinterpreted that as an insulting command. Oh well...

      Yeah, that, unfortunately, is just bullshit moderating. The mods around here have a rather annoying tendency to mod people down rather than actually, you know, respond to the comments at hand, so unpopular comments get modded down, even if they don't deserve it. Worse, it's very clear they have no idea whatsoever what a real troll looks like. Hopefully it gets corrected by a metamod or another moderator who isn't such a fucktard...

    37. Re:Good plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, individual white boards and maybe a communal white board for group thinking.

    38. Re:Good plan by calzakk · · Score: 1

      It's actually pretty good advice:

      Every employer shall so plan the activities of users at work in his undertaking that their daily work on display screen equipment is periodically interrupted by such breaks or changes of activity as reduce their workload at that equipment

    39. Re:Good plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just got into our network gear and routed an external IP to an internal system of my choice with my own VPN software installed.

      Good way to get fired

    40. Re:Good plan by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      Trust me, there is no security concept. That being why it was so easily bypassed. And the company across the street leaves their network completely exposed so you can even connect to them and then bounce over. Gotta enjoy people that don't bother turning security features on or leave default settings.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    41. Re:Good plan by toddestan · · Score: 1

      The only problem with headphones that I have is people can then sneak up on you. Not intentionally, of course, but it can be a bit jarring to realize that someone is behind you and you had no idea they were there and how long they've been there. Especially if it's your boss. It would be great though if you can arrange things so that you can always see if someone is coming, which may or may not be possible in an open layout.

    42. Re:Good plan by aminorex · · Score: 1

      Open seating arrangements are death to development. It takes 20 to 30 minutes to get into a productive flow, and 1 second to break it.

      --
      -I like my women like I like my tea: green-
    43. Re:Good plan by nullchar · · Score: 1

      Re: IM

      Try the Openfire Jabber/XMPP server. Have your own server for the office, and if your company has > 100 employees, create groups of each department and auto-share the group roster to the group. So when people join/leave the company, the roster updates for everyone. Jabber is awesome.

    44. Re:Good plan by tys90 · · Score: 1

      I agree with what everyone said about Youtube except under one case - slow office internet. Our network is adequate but our internet connection is worthless. They blocked streaming media during working hours (8-12, 1-5) for that reason and it has made a large improvement navigating to webpages and sites that are work related (or not, such as slashdot). I can't stream music anymore but I am no longer frustrated by VERY slow internet when I am simply trying to look up a companies webpage or product, etc. Now I know someone will say it this - I imagine we can get better/faster service here but that isn't my decision to make and the bandwidth issues may just be an excuse to babysit people, who knows.

    45. Re:Good plan by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      I strongly disagree with this statement. Blocking should be done by the developers themselves, NOT as a decision from above.

      And what's so special about developers?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    46. Re:Good plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      - make it easy to collaborate without interrupting people (e.g. Instant messages*)

      This is a must. Get everyone a jabber account

      Or Bonjour. No setup (with exception of QT or something on Windows, but even so - you'd have to install some sort of software for Jabber there anyway).

  35. Test a few before you move? by jenllip · · Score: 1

    If possible, why not test a few temporary configurations in your current space and see what they like best?

    I resisted switching to a different desk for a while because I couldn't see how it would be any different, but after trying it, I realized it opened up a whole world of communication opportunities I was missing.

  36. Suite format by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    Four fully enclosed offices with doors which open to a central conference area (just a 3x8 table and half a dozen chairs), which in turn opens onto the corridor accessing the rest of the office. Bonus points if you can parley a space for a sink, a mini-fridge, and a coffee machine on a small kitchenette at one end of the common area.

    You should always be close, but there are times when you need to collaborate and times when you need to close the door and concentrate on what you're doing without distraction (coding, of course).

    I have actually worked in an environment like this and it is pretty darned productive. We had 6 offices that opened onto a common area. No coffee mess, but life isn't perfect. I think we were much more in sync as a team than the folks who were lined up in offices along a corridor, and much less distracted than being in a cube farm (I've been in both of those environments, too).

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  37. Lousy idea by g051051 · · Score: 1

    Ugh. I've been in various flavors of multi-developer work areas, and they've all been unmitigated disasters. The only thing that works is to have private offices. They don't need to be big or have views, just walls that go to the ceiling and a door to close when you need to work without distractions. It's tough to imagine an environmnet worse than sitting at a big round table with 3 other devlopers. Obviously the person that suggested it has never actually tried to write code.

  38. BTW, Jerker lives on! by sznupi · · Score: 1

    Yes, the best reasonably priced desks weren't discontinued...they just have a much more boring name now, Fredrik: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/categories/series/10216/

    --
    One that hath name thou can not otter
    1. Re:BTW, Jerker lives on! by raddan · · Score: 1

      I'm quite partial to Galant. I'm typing on one right now. You can get them cheaper if you don't go with the glass top. It's pretty sexy. Steel and glass. It's the perfect height for me, and it's primary properties are being big and flat. It doesn't have any annoying drawers or other "features".

      One downside: my wife is convinced that the next time we have to move it, we're going to drop it and she's going to somehow be hacked to pieces by the shards.

    2. Re:BTW, Jerker lives on! by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Glass bad. Glass cold. Glass fragile (I'm not even sure how many glass "windows" in doors, one of the idiocies of local socrealism-era architecture, I smashed; no useless glass in my place! ;p )

      Plus even the cheapest one noticeably more expensive than the top of the line Jerker with shelves (and over two times more than equivalent Jerker)

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    3. Re:BTW, Jerker lives on! by BobPaul · · Score: 1

      I would never work with that. It looks dangerous, like it could kill a Jonas Brother.

    4. Re:BTW, Jerker lives on! by Mad+Merlin · · Score: 1

      I'm also typing on a Galant, but with a wood surface instead of glass, and an extension on the short side of the L (and T legs, of course). It has enough space for dual 20" monitors, 2 mousepads, 2 laptops, and speakers to wrap around me, with extra space to spare. Furthermore, it's deep enough that I can sit comfortably in my chair with my legs stretched out on the towers below the desk without my legs hanging past the end of the table. Oh, and because there's no stupid drawers, there's tons of legroom and space for computers below it.

      Most people that see it say it's freakishly large, but I was actually thinking about putting another extension on the other side...

    5. Re:BTW, Jerker lives on! by raddan · · Score: 1

      One good reason for windows in doors, especially the swinging, double-door type found in hallways, is so that you don't clobber someone (or get clobbered by someone) when opening them. Because you can see them through the glass.

      I could probably smash my glass-top desk with a hammer, but barring anything really unusual, I'm not sure I could smash it with my body. The glass is very thick. Given that your predilection for smashing glass (are you big and wobbly, or just not very careful?), I can see why you'd want to stay away. I like the coldness of glass, though. One of my favorite materials. Inert, hard, easily formed into useful shapes. But as you point out, brittle.

    6. Re:BTW, Jerker lives on! by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Translucent enough swing (or normal) doors don't have to include glass. Anyway, those placed in present public or semi-public places are usually made from quite heavy-duty one (hey, there's no shortage of public funds for the decor of public offices...); part of the idiocy here is that "classic" glass panel doors have one piece of normal glass (of poor quality and the doors itself of poor construction) filling around 2/3 of them.

      Most (all?) of my visible scars come from them, likewise in uncanny number of my friends. It's incomprehensible, really - turns out all of my peers, when the subject is mentioned, don't put such doors in their homes or change them to something more sensible or declare they will do it when the need arises. At the same time "old generation" didn't seem to notice a problem, even when their kids were semi-regularly cut in non-trivial degree...

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
  39. Virtual meetings by PPH · · Score: 1

    Hold virtual meetings. Everyone picks their own theme and avatars for their co-workers.

    Zippy the Pinhead seems to be a pretty popular choice for the boss.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  40. Offices, not cubicles. by jcr · · Score: 1

    If you want them to get code written, don't treat them like cattle.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  41. Peopleware / Backs to Walls by tildeequals · · Score: 1

    The famous Peopleware (by Demarco and Lister) has a chapter on this. It brings up a lot of good considerations. The gist of it is that they recommend asking the developers. That's a great place to start, but I've found that a lot of the developers I've worked with are either too young to have much of an opinion about this or too old to think of any solution other than the solutions they've seen in the past. Whenever I've done this in the past (for groups of 2 to 20 people, most of whom were usually developers), I've tried to give everybody his or her own desk but keep people's backs to the wall. I've found that, if nobody can sneak up on you or see your monitor, your working space feels more private. That sense of privacy helps folks concentrate a bit better. Also, if everybody's back is against the wall, it means that everybody's facing the middle of the room, which helps a bit with impromptu discussions. The downside of the backs-to-walls approach is that there's a lot less open space. You probably need about 100 square feet per developer to make it work well.

  42. Private Offices by schnablebg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm with Joel Spolsky on this one. Private offices. If you can't swing that, *please* do not do the round table. Programmers need to concentrate! Some here here.

    1. Re:Private Offices by Burnhard · · Score: 1

      I totally disagree that this is a good idea. I prefer my current situation, where I'm in an open plan office and I can chat to all of the other developers. I have met some "autistic" developers before who want to be sealed off from everyone else so they never have to make eye contact, but to me communication with other members of the team is the most important thing. I don't mind if I have to walk around a few desks to get there either. The round table is ok, depending on how large the round table is (the bigger, the better). If I want to shut myself off to concentrate, I usually put my headphones on.

    2. Re:Private Offices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Joel is a fucking retard who has never had a good idea in his life, and wouldn't recognize one if the fucking clouds opened and God himself handed it down personally. Private offices might be the best way to appease your programmers' little egos, but they are not at all a good idea for actual productivity.

    3. Re:Private Offices by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      You like to chat with the other developers. Have you determined that the other developers want to chat with you and aren't just being polite?

    4. Re:Private Offices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From Spolsky article

      "A nice roll of toilet paper runs about a buck. Your programmers are probably using about one roll a week, each"

      At work? Damn I probably use 1 a month. Normal house size too, not the monster spindles at the office.

    5. Re:Private Offices by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 1

      Agreed, if you can't do private offices, semi-private cubes aren't bad as long as the sound barrier is solid. Collaboration software makes working in teams pretty easy, you could actually do a reasonable job with people across the country that way. There isn't any real need to be face to face when talking about code, and in fact there are a lot of things that can be distracting.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    6. Re:Private Offices by Joe+U · · Score: 1

      Keep telling yourself that. I'm betting you think nothing improves productivity more than constant interruptions by co-workers on the phone, talking, typing, and other various tasks that you can hear in cubicleland.

    7. Re:Private Offices by Joe+U · · Score: 1

      You shouldn't be chatting during actual coding unless it's to resolve an issue, and that's what phones are for. The big desk or open office is just to save money.

    8. Re:Private Offices by cowdung · · Score: 1

      That is what the living rooms are for..

      The office is for concentrating.. the living rooms for chatting..

      Also, you can go to someone else's office and chat to your heart's delight. But at least you'll only be interrupting 1 person.

      I can't believe some people actually believe that these open floor plans are a good idea!

    9. Re:Private Offices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heck, our current rate is 3 toilet paper rolls a minute.

  43. Get private offices by drew_eckhardt · · Score: 1

    Private offices are far less expensive than the cost to productivity from open office environments.

    1. IBM Research studied the problem, and found that engineers are 40% more productive in quiet private offices than open environments. At a fully burdened annual cost of $100-$200K per engineer open seating could cost you $120,000-$240,000 a year.

    2. It can take fifteen minutes to enter a mental 'flow' state. Once you get a high enough interrupt rate it's difficult to get anything done until people go home for the day.

    3. Open offices encourage unnecessary communication. Where people might find answers themselves they ask their co-workers because it's easy thus saving minutes for themselves at the cost of up to fifteen minutes from their co-workers.

    1. Re:Get private offices by hpavc · · Score: 1

      Can you post the ibm study source please.

      --
      members are seeing something, your seeing an ad
    2. Re:Get private offices by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 1

      This is not what you asked for, but it is an article summarizing the results of a number of studies (with references) plus the article writer's own personal experience.

      Here is a different study that looked at the differences between complex interruptions and simple interruptions during the execution of a complex task. Bear in mind that the "complex task" was nowhere near as complex as various programming tasks can be. They found a complex task interrupted by a simple task generally cost about 4 minutes to get back into the task, and a complex task interrupted by another complex task took close to 8 minutes to get back into the task. An interesting affect they noted, however, was that when a complex task was interrupted by another complex task, when the person went back to the main task they made fewer errors for a time. That was not the case for a simple interruption.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    3. Re:Get private offices by cowdung · · Score: 1

      Peopleware by Tom DeMarco!

  44. Themed Arrangements by Jeff+Archambeault · · Score: 2, Funny

    The NORAD Command Center in "War Games" was always a favorite of mine, but Starfleet(tm) Bridge or Engineering could be fun too. Folks could have uniforms of differently colored company polo shirts.

    A generic command post with visitor theater above it might be intriguing.

    Replicating part of the cubical farm in The Matrix could just be an interesting "after-work" team-building project.

    Whee!

    --

    Plus ca change, plus c'est les memes choses.

    1. Re:Themed Arrangements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Starfleet(tm) Bridge or Engineering could be fun too -- as long as you are not the new generic crewman wearing a red uniform. The wiring on the bridge would fail UL/EC/CSA or any standards in the civilized world.

      I would rather stay in sick bay as it seems to be the safest part of the ship and "Hello Nurse!"

    2. Re:Themed Arrangements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please don't make me wear the red shirt!

      Ensign Jones

    3. Re:Themed Arrangements by Krannert+IT · · Score: 1

      I think most of the developers here want to work in a replica of an escape pod.

  45. What works for one by Tjp($)pjT · · Score: 1

    What works for one may not work for others. Do they all work on the same projects, do their personalities mesh, do they work on independent projects, and how much of the time, does the company enforce strict working hours? You kind of get the point. Some companies value the creative aspects of developers, some bury that and just want coders. What is you have?

    Given unlimited space and budget I'd create a warren for them four or five offices with closable doors surrounding a conference table that is used solely for the developers, not shared to other tasks, put up a white board or better technology that captures the scrawls too, and make sure the conference table area support the local variety of network, not a problem if WiFi is permitted, but security concerns may require a post of hardwired ethernet connections. There should be plenty of space around the conference table so developers not involved can easily exit and enter their offices. This gives space to collaborate with team members and privacy when the developers need it to be distraction free. Visually think of lining a room with the offices and having say 20 feet of clear space in the middle to place a small conference table in. Want the developers to work through lunch or late nights during crunch time, make space for a small refrigerator. Put a microwave on top and include a water cooler (with hot water as well) and keep a spare bottle of water next to it. If the company really supports developers with small perks include an honor snack box and free coffee and tea ... So, to recap. Provide privacy so they can think. Provide space for them to collaborate ... Contrary to some people's thoughts there are people and there are tasks where one person is the better solution.

    And anyone looking for a CTO or looking to invest in a startup, let me know! I know how to get development done.

    --
    - Tjp

    I am in wallow with my inner money grubbing capitalistic pig. ... Oink!

  46. In order of preference by Crash+McBang · · Score: 3, Insightful

    1 - office w/door, see joel on software for an example
    2 - cubicles w/entries facing a common area
    3 - bullpen, desks in middle of room

    Above all, have the team and management agree on a daily 2 to 3hr 'core time' when there are no conversations, pages, phones, meetings, or other distractions.

    If everybody buys into core time, the cubes vs. offices, etc. will become a non-issue.

    --
    To put a witty saying into 120 characters, jst rmv ll th vwls.
    1. Re:In order of preference by macshit · · Score: 1

      If everybody buys into core time, the cubes vs. offices, etc. will become a non-issue.

      This is not true -- people make noise and do annoying things whether they're explicitly conversing or not. The only real way to ensure real quiet is to have a physically isolated space.

      I think group seating arrangements can be useful, some of the time; at other times, it's very hard to get work done without real isolation. Ideally this can be provided by having both offices and central space for working, and allow developers to easily shift between them as their task and mood dictate.

      The best physical working environment I've ever had was where everybody had individual offices around the edges of the building (so almost all had windows), which were grouped into "cul-de-sacs" with short branch hallways (giving a cozy feeling to the small groups of 2-3 offices), and common areas -- including public workstations in a big common "lab" room -- in the middle of the building. This allowed varying degrees of privacy from almost total isolation in your office with the door closed, to the most common "doors open into the cul-de-sac" state, to working in the common lab together when you wanted a more social and public atmosphere. I split my time more or less evenly between these modes of working, and it was very conducive to getting things done.

      Currently I work in a Japanese company, which (as is typical for such) provides very little privacy ... everybody sits about 4-5 feet apart at long common desks (with the manager at the end where he can observe everybody!), and there's utterly no isolation from conversations, annoying personal habits, people seeing what's on your monitor, etc. In some cases it's fine, but there are times when it's absurdly hard to get anything done because of this -- when I have to think, I need some privacy and quiet!

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    2. Re:In order of preference by Darinbob · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, every company should have a slot for work time - say no-meeting Fridays, or no meetings between 10 and 2, etc. I really feel sorry for some managers who are in meetings all day, then at 5 or 6 they start doing their actual daily work load (and inevitably take it home with them so you see the late night emails).

  47. Pair coding by SimonInOz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Pair coding can be surprisingly effective - it sounds a ridiculous idea, have one person code, and another just sit there and watch. But it works pretty well - the second person acts a check on the first, and the error rate drops. There will be interaction, humans are like that, and it's all to the good.
    Also, you will have two people familiar with the code, not just one, so some pressure is reduced - holidays become easier to organise, for example.

    I have worked in an office (now), a cube farm, a shared room, and from home. Each has advantages and disadvantages. (I like the sound of the laptop and the beach, but I'd definitely miss my second screen).

    One thing that does definitely work is to have a "quiet room". You have a limited number of desks/computers there. If you choose to work there for a bit there are no phones, emails, nor conversation. Can be great for a good straightforward bit of code bashing. But not all the time.

    Oh yes, and a second screen is a proven, cheap, productivity improver. Big screens are pretty cheap. Do it!

    Simon (yeah, I've been doing this a long time. First line of code must have been, oh, 1970 in Fortran IV I think, and I'm still at it. Damn, where's my Ferrari?)

    --
    "Cats like plain crisps"
    1. Re:Pair coding by Darinbob · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Problem is, I write code maybe 2-4% of the time I am at the terminal. Other times I'm reading the code, and I don't need someone talking while I'm doing that, though it is nice to ask questions on occasion. Most of the time I'm doing other stuff; meetings, responding to the emergency email thread of the day, mailing people my status, mailing answers to questions, sifting through data, scrounging up tools and parts, etc.

      Also with two people at the terminal, doesn't that means you've got twice as many people doing the same job as other companies? Ie, if I've got 20 engineers all with their own areas of expertise or at least their own features/bugs to fix, I'd have to have 35-40 engineers to get them paired up this way. Seems wasteful. What does the one person put on their resume, that they spend their time watching someone else type?

      Sure, I'd love to have someone to collaborate when and where I want (and leave me alone when I don't), but who's going to pay for it?

      Also, people need to have their own computers, not shared computers in a quiet room. Then they can use their own tools, settings, etc. Doing everything from shared drives or over vnc can really slow thing down.

    2. Re:Pair coding by Swordsmanus · · Score: 1

      Also with two people at the terminal, doesn't that means you've got twice as many people doing the same job as other companies?

      Problem is, I write code maybe 2-4% of the time I am at the terminal. Other times I'm reading the code...Most of the time I'm doing other stuff...

      I think you answered your own question without realizing it, but just in case I'll elaborate from what I know.

      In paired coding, the coders take turns coding and watching/reading. Like you said, much of coding work isn't typing in the code itself. So having a pair of coders, with one watching, the other writing, and both reading code and thinking about it in the interim, you catch both syntax and logic errors as they happen which can save a lot of time later. Also thanks to an extra perspective, you can overcome mental roadblocks faster...unless you never, ever get stumped on how to approach a problem or implement anything.

      There's also no Boolean rule going on here that states that just because two programmers work in a pair, that they also must use the same computer or spend 100% of their time at one person's computer all day or do nothing but focus on one person's code or work on the exact same part of a project. There's time to do all the other daily stuff that you mentioned, and time enough (5-10% of the daily time by your own estimation, times two, plus discussion/explanation time) even on busy days to watch each other code.

    3. Re:Pair coding by Chowderbags · · Score: 1

      I think the point is that having two people work together means that you're less likely to have one guy go off on a random useless tangent due to missing something/thinking they know something they don't/fatigue. Assuming that using two people for a task that's traditionally thought of as needing one person results in twice as many man-hours spent is a big mistake, it could take a quarter to half the time if they cover eachother well or it could take more than twice the man-hours if they bicker or goof off. That said, I tend to do most of my coding by myself and prefer it that way because I get self-conscious when I'm spending time to figure things out.

    4. Re:Pair coding by L4t3r4lu5 · · Score: 1

      Remember that Windows 7 maximises windows to half of the width of the screen when you drag the title bar to the right or left hand side. Widescreen monitors become cheap two-monitor setups with that configuration.

      Not astroturfing... Seemed appropriate.

      --
      Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
  48. cul-de-sac offices with common area in center. by emptybody · · Score: 1

    a cul-de-sac of offices with doors facing inwards and an open wide hallway down the center with a common workspace and large conference room style table for teamwork. each dev can go into their offices and close the door for heads down or pair programming. leave it open to passively participate as a group, work at the group table for team exercises.

    at the ends of the cul-de-sac place bookshelves, white boards and a video screen for demo/group presentations. use rolling whiteboards, flip charts/postit charts.
    add a remote video cam with audio and you can include folks from offsite.
    put a conference phone in the center of the table.

    --
    comment directly in my journal
  49. Own office by endrs · · Score: 1

    Do you want productivity? Let each coder have his own office, with a door. Joel on Software have more. I so totally subscribe to this view. What happens in any other environment is that people have to use load music on their earphones to block out the sound, to get into the "flow". You seriously want your coders in flow.

  50. Facing each other with dividers by mjensen · · Score: 1

    Put the desks facing each other, but with a wall at 5 to 6 feet high between each. They can have the privacy they may want, and to ask others opinions, they can call out or stand up.
    Or ask them, but be prepared for 1 to say "Open" and another to say "Closed" and 2 to not care.

  51. DO NOT USE A ROUND TABLE!!! by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This doesn't have to do with management or efficiency due to social interaction, but do NOT use a round table like you mentioned in the article. Have you ever worked at a table that's round? Try it. There's a reason desks are RECTANGULAR. Your arms can't be supported on a circular table because the section under your elbows is missing due to the geometry of a circle. It sucks and causes massive arm pain. I don't care how efficient it makes your developers, your productivity will drop like a fucking stone if they're constantly bothered by pain in their arms.

    Use a RECTANGULAR table if you want to fit 4 or more people around a desk.

    --
    -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    1. Re:DO NOT USE A ROUND TABLE!!! by raddan · · Score: 1

      Easily fixed. Use a hexagonal table. Or six triangular ones :^P

    2. Re:DO NOT USE A ROUND TABLE!!! by MichaelJ · · Score: 1

      You're going to have bigger problems if you're using a keyboard and letting your elbows rest on the desk.

      --

      Michael J.
      Root, God, what is difference?
    3. Re:DO NOT USE A ROUND TABLE!!! by swilver · · Score: 1

      Just make the table big enough, than it won't be a factor :)

  52. Easy. by fishthegeek · · Score: 1

    Alphabetically by height.

    --
    load "$",8,1
  53. The bosses should try the roundtable arrangement by melted · · Score: 1

    The bosses should try the roundtable arrangement. They do nothing but BS all day anyway, might as well choose a layout that's conducive to what they do.

    Developers MUST have a door which they can close when they need to concentrate. Anything else is torture and a waste of perfectly good brains.

  54. Bad, bad, bad idea. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It would totally stress me out. Just the thought that my blank stares when thinking about a problem would not hit an empty wall or a window, but someone's face... horror.

  55. Reverse round table worked well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My favorite seating arrangement was in a room where each developer had a small partition to himself, facing the wall, with no "back" - so nothing blocking the view to the center of the room. The partitions on each side of a developer were just big enough to be like "blinders", where you couldn't see other people when working, but one could easily roll the chair back a few feet and have a view of everyone. The center of the room had several small tables that could be pushed together for a large conference, and one of the walls had several large whiteboards. Putting on some decent headphones made for good zoning in your own workspace, but you could still see and hear everything else if you wanted to.
    As for productivity, it was quite high since all the monitors faced the center of the room, and so could be easily seen. People could easily show their screen off to get help, and couldn't easily hide their idle deeds from coworkers. Peer pressure is a good motivator.
    SlamDunk

  56. Post's never coded in his life by timmarhy · · Score: 1
    anyone who has spent 12 hours a day chained to a computer programming or problem solving, knows having your own office is by far the best.

    you can shut out noise and distractions. if this round table idea is some management idea to stop goofing off, then forget it. something some managers just can't get, is that you CAN NOT stop people goofing off if they want to.

    if own offices isn't possible go with cubicals, a round table in a meeting room, and buy them noise canceling headphones.

    why the headphones you ask? firstly because it'll allow them to escape the guy beside them blowing his nose or whistling some annoying tune, but it'll also instill a sense in them that you actually care about their output, and when people feel that they'll work harder and not feel like your just milking them. for $500 it'd be a sound investment.

    --
    If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
  57. No one right answer by QuestorTapes · · Score: 1

    I worked on a couple of different teams for one company, in different office situations.

    In one, 8 of us were in one common room, and we worked well together. Originally, we were all facing the walls, but we all agreed and moved the desks so we were facing one another. It was great; close group, close spacing, got along, worked well together.

    Later, in the same company, in a different group, just three of us in a larger room. One of the guys snagged a conference room for a week just to get some work done. One member of our group was a "social butterfly." Loud conversations, all day long. Impossible to concentrate. Very limited knowledge of technology, always undoing the good work done by others.

    I work now with some folks who are productive later in the day; in the morning they socialize, loudly. I work best early. It's unbelievably difficult to concentrate sometimes. Sometimes people need closeness, other times they need space. Particularly if work and personal styles don't mesh.

    It's not the "most productive arrangement" that matters. It's the most productive team. What's best for the individuals that make up your group? Talk to -them-.

  58. Smells like Management Fad to me by dpbsmith · · Score: 2, Informative

    The idea that the seating arrangement matters much smells to me like Management Fad.

    You say "In many offices and departments it increases productivity and makes collaboration easy." Is there a shred of data to back that up?

    In Peopleware, DeMarco and Lister concluded that there was only one variable that correlated with programmer productivity: number of square feet of office space per programmer. If so, then to the extent that seating people around a round table puts them closer together, it will reduce productivity.

    1. Re:Smells like Management Fad to me by minstrelmike · · Score: 1

      I like the idea of testing new processes. Put your managers around a table permanently and give the developers the private offices and see how much -company- productivity increases. Then switch. How often do managers have to talk to each? How often do developers? Private offices for developers and others who need to think and open collaborative offices for those who have to push paper and meet seems to do the job better.

  59. Peopleware by QuietLagoon · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you want to be productive, buy and read the book. Better buy two copies and give one to your manager to read.

    1. Re:Peopleware by SQL+Error · · Score: 1

      Holy crap, $400?! I mean, it's worth it (I actually bought my boss a copy at a previous job, just to put a lid on some of the more insane practices at that company), but they really really need to get that book back in print.

    2. Re:Peopleware by Geoffreyerffoeg · · Score: 1

      For $300? (Or $200 used?)

      Do you know where to get this book for a normal price? I've been looking forward to reading it, but I can't convince myself to spend $300 on it and there's no way I can get anyone else to...

    3. Re:Peopleware by magical+liopleurodon · · Score: 1

      yeah. well, for those prices, buy the kindle -- kindle version is going for $9.99 :-)

    4. Re:Peopleware by magical+liopleurodon · · Score: 1

      oh whoops, someone said this already. Mod this guy up: http://ask.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1629660&cid=31963338

    5. Re:Peopleware by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1

      I only saw the Kindle price. I was not aware it is out of print. On the other hand, the price indicates how good a book it is. :)

    6. Re:Peopleware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've actually been meaning to buy that book...clicked the link...$223? WTF is up with Amazon?

    7. Re:Peopleware by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      They need to make a new revision while they're at it. The 2nd edition came out in 1999, and things have changed a bit since then, with the dot-com wreck and all.

      They should add a whole chapter insulting all the stupid companies (like mine) which still ignore their advice and put programmers and engineers in bullpens.

  60. Four corners by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you only have one room available for them (as I suspect is the case) sit them in the corners or along the sides. Make sure they have (at least) two good sized monitors each; one to code and one for documents/emails/web. A central table is not workable for us as the stuff we use to do our jobs (profusion of monitors laptops etc) will just mean we can't see each other without standing up or that the monitors are so stupidly small we can't do the job easily.

    Code development requires some periods of what I would call deep focus. Between these periods of focus there will often be break out moments of chat and banter to unwind that focus a little. There will also be discussions on methods of approach and some hey Bob can you take a look over my shoulder at this? parts where someone has missed a semicolon somewhere or some such obvious to other guy type thing. A round table hinders slows and discourages all of this teamwork. Bob is no longer able to scoot his wheeled chair 3 feet left to point out the syntax error, he probably has to get up from his side and walk around or he has to lean over uncomfortably (so he doesn't want to do it which annoys the other Dev and breaks down team spirit).

    The main thing that programmers do is on the computer screens, if you want them to work directly with each other as a team (this is not always the best approach with developers) they need to be able to see each others screens quickly and easily.

    Oh - coffee, nearly forgot, they will need quick and easy access to coffee as close at hand as you can make it.

  61. Round table by owlstead · · Score: 1

    As long as you don't really use round desks. If I hate anything it is having anything other than a smoothed down, straight desk to rest my paws on. Although at work I have a lowered desk and a natural 4000 ergonomic keyboard, which makes this point slightly moot since I use the rubbery wrist rest. Most devs use normal flatter keyboards, so they will want straight lines.

    Currently I'm in a very very noisy room with about 20 people and a constant temperature of 24 degrees. As long as you don't have that it's probably for the good. I would hate a completely separate room though. I'll be leaving for a room where 4-6 people will be on desks facing each other (we put people that mainly do a single project together). As long as you use rectangular desks, you can do anything you want with them. A quarter round desk basically takes too much room unless it is used to put as a round table.

    Personally I would use rectangular desks in a square where 2 persons sit next to each other, facing the other two. And I would have a small table with 4 normal chairs and a white-board for meets right next to that. Oh, and some plants and other stuff that make it look less like a clean room. A cookie jar and a good coffee machine spring to mind, and some space to put books in (books should be visible, otherwise they will just gather dust).

  62. Outward - Not Inward by Gastrobot · · Score: 1

    Rather than having all developers at a round table facing toward each other I would surround them with desks and have them facing out from each other. That way collaboration is as easy as scooting your chair to an adjacent developer but you're looking away from each other when you're each trying to concentrate on your own thing. A few weeks ago I spent some time in a workroom with a couple other developers and hated it. For some people that might help but to me it was distracting.

  63. Pinwheel-clusters of 4. by FooAtWFU · · Score: 1

    We have a series of desks in a pinwheel arrangement. Peoples' monitors (we all have dual-monitor setups, or more) keep them from seeing too much of the guy the next desk over, but you're really close to each other. You can just toss a bunch of these clusters all over the place, too.

         |
      o  |o
    -----|
       |-----
      o|  o
       |

    We have a power/ethernet drop from the ceiling in the middle of each cluster, which works out nicely.

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  64. None! by spiffmastercow · · Score: 1

    Real developers don't have seating arrangements -- they stand.

  65. Alone by redKrane · · Score: 1

    Alone. Everyone knows that quality developers work best alone, in a quiet or otherwise musically suitable environment. It is convenient to have other developers close if you need some actual conversation or questioning, but sitting at a round table sounds like bad news to me.

    --
    that's my word, holla...
  66. Don't worry about coding errors by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

    If you're thinking about the coding stage, you've already guaranteed a sub-optimal setup. The absolute worst errors, the ones that'll cost you the most to correct (if you can correct them at all), are the planning errors. Good software starts with a good architecture and overall design, and that requires clear thinking about what exactly you're trying to do. Most often it requires privacy: one person working out a really good design, or two or three people hashing out ideas where their bozo moments and utterly brain-dead thoughts won't be a public embarrassment. Set your environment up for that, and the coding will take care of itself.

    Generally I prefer offices off a common area. Put a big table, whiteboards and such in the common area so people can congregate when you really need everyone together (eg. meetings or troubleshooting sessions). Make the offices reasonably soundproof (so if eg. someone works better with music playing they can do that without bothering anyone else) and with doors that can be but don't have to be closed (so the developer can decide which it'll be now).

  67. eating by incripshin · · Score: 1

    It depends on how many of them like to chew with their mouths open at their desks. Seriously, some people just do not understand how obnoxious this can be.

  68. Workplace Productivity by J-Haru · · Score: 1

    You boss is absolutely right that a more collaborative seating arrangement would increase your productivity ...AND... You are absolutely right that your lack of focus space would reduce your productivity. Every job benefits in productivity by having spaces that allow the following four work modes: Focus, Collaborate, Learning, Socializing. Current office design trends are no longer about "making an office pretty", but about finding out what ratio of the above four work modes best supports the work, and designing these functions into the workplace. If you want some good details on this, refer to this link: http://www.worldarchitecturenews.com/index.php?fuseaction=wanappln.projectview&upload_id=10111 Gensler, based out of SF but with offices around the world has been in a leader in researching work productivity and applying it to workplace design. J-Haru

  69. I'm your boss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just buy the frikin' table and get back to work!!

  70. Collaboration vs Privacy by michael_cain · · Score: 2, Informative

    In 25 years, with experience being both the developer who had seating arrangements dictated, and the manager of a group who had to dictate seating, I have never heard a developer complain over the long haul that individual offices on the same short hall were causing too little collaboration and cooperation between the people on the team. OTOH, there were numerous complaints that being jammed all together created large impediments to ever finding a quiet time without interruptions to think through a complex problem.

    Ask your experienced people which they prefer; someone who is six months out of school is not qualified to have an opinion.

  71. Both... by barfy · · Score: 1

    Seriously. The coders need to be in offices, with doors that are mostly open, and central spaces to talk and mingle, and tons of white boards.

    There will be time to talk, time to think, time to type, time to test, time to recover. There is no one best at all times, but you need to provide best at all times. If you skimp, then you cost yourself maximum productivity.

    We did this best by having a ring of offices surrounding test and support, with a large conference room.

    Having test and support nearby developers helped a lot. Test and support didn't tend to need as much "quiet and focus" as developers, but having close access to test and support, meant that there feedback, and listening to development helped get the product out better faster.

  72. Distraction is healthy by pestilence669 · · Score: 1

    Unless everyone on your team is battling ADHD, I'd recommend as close quarters as possible. The absolute best ideas, in my experience, have come from overhearing interesting discussions. Open work areas are also great for mentoring junior coders without inviting them to every single meeting. They get to overhear juniors & seniors alike conversing about things that may not even apply to their own jobs. The social aspect can also serve as motivation for peers to bone up on tech for the sole purpose of taking part in discussion. It builds report unlike formal meetings with agendas. This eventually leads to an incredibly strong & balanced team.

    1. Re:Distraction is healthy by DaMattster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Honestly, what is wrong with letting your software engineers/developers work from home? Collaboration tools are omnipresent with online meetings and VOIP that the office is almost an anachcronism. Unless, your egineers double as desktop support, working in an office is almost superfluous.

    2. Re:Distraction is healthy by pestilence669 · · Score: 1

      I'm totally in agreement with telecommuting, in so long as it demands IRC / chat room presence and total availability.

    3. Re:Distraction is healthy by DaMattster · · Score: 1

      I guess most CIOs and CTOs are still caught with the ancient mindset of control freaks that they must have their whole staff on site in order to ensure productivity.

    4. Re:Distraction is healthy by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      They get to overhear juniors & seniors alike conversing about things that may not even apply to their own jobs.

      And thus they don't do their own jobs because they're busy doing the job of your worst developer.

      Open plans, and the attempts to justify them, are just ways to be cheap and artificially create status symbols for management. For productivity, offices around a common meeting room. With the doors open you can usually hear the other conversations, and the common area allows collaboration when it's helpful. The doors on the offices allow quiet space when that's needed.

      The problem is developers sometimes need a collaborative environment, and sometimes need a private environment. Selecting a single environment means you will suffer when they need the other.

  73. Tower of Babel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  74. Well ..... by DaMattster · · Score: 1

    I hate the idea of having a seating arrangement dictated to me. Each person has their own way of efficiently working. I happen to have ADD and get distracted fairly easily although I've learned to cope to a certain degree. I need an environment as random noise free as possible. Sometimes, I can just put my headset on and listen to music to drown out the other office sensory. I think the best approach is to survey your team members and try to come to a consensus.

  75. Work from home? by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Unless your boss is big on pair programming, hire competent people and save on a building.

    As the comments re: blocking out background noise via headphones attest, frequent interruptions from co-workers do stress people out and destroy productivity. Skype/Jabber can substitute for brief chats. VNC can substitute for showing a problem on someone else's machine. Record incidents by screencast for bug reporting - Often far more productive being summoned to a co-worker's machine to view a problem that is then mysteriously not reproducible at that precise moment.

    Having worked on a project with staff in multiple timezones I can relate that 'the process' is more important than cramming as many people into a physical location.

    Oh, and commuting sucks. Flexible hours from home fit in better with modern family life than worker bees who leave home at 8am and return at 6pm. I for one would prefer the Spanish model of a mid-afternoon recharge...

  76. Bench and lab by lena_10326 · · Score: 1

    I like a bench setup with half height dividers between seats or a lab arrangement with a long rectangular table (people sit on alternating sides). The reason is I don't like feeling eyeballs constantly on me or feeling like I'm constantly staring at someone across from me as one would be in a circle or pinwheel.

    With these setups, workers should make private calls either in the break room, hallway, or in a dedicated phone room.

    A few commented that there should be no windows. I think anyone advocating that is not a very nice person. Having natural lighting and seating in a large open area is a huge benefit to morale and fights off seasonal depression. If you're concerned about people staring out the window all day, just setup the seats to face away from windows.

    --
    Camping on quad since 1996.
  77. Bull pens and War rooms? Stink 'em out! by Wansu · · Score: 2

    Oh yeah, been there done that. It's distracting. It's designed to intimidate people so they don't goof off.

    The way to stop this is load up on beans, mexican and indian food. Cut farts that peel the paint off the wall. Maybe get a contest going with a likeminded coworker. It's biological warfare.

    --
    Wansu, th' chinese sailor
    1. Re:Bull pens and War rooms? Stink 'em out! by fleebait · · Score: 1

      Been there, done that. Add chopped fresh onions to the beans for enhancement. I once was able to clear a 10,000 office floor that used the hallway as a return for the air-conditioner. They even considered calling a haz-mat team, until someone realized they'd have to pay for em out of the reserve cash -- which was to be used for the annual picnic.

    2. Re:Bull pens and War rooms? Stink 'em out! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've read that rotten eggs are a good way to stink up an office, especially if you're been let go. I don't know if this is true, but it sounds true: before you leave your job, leave some raw eggs in hidden places, especially inside vents. Nothing will happen for a while, but the eggs will rot on the inside. Eventually (a month or two later), the eggs will finally crack open, creating a terrible odor, stinking up the whole office.

  78. round table by dr_strang · · Score: 1

    Unless you have an 8 hour a day meeting in mind, it's counterproductive.

    Developers like to share ideas and get direction periodically and then go work in solitude.

    --
    This is a sig. It is like every other sig in the world, except that it is mine, and it is different.
  79. My suggestion by ffreeloader · · Score: 1

    My idea for seating these devs? I haven't read all 150+ comments so don't know if anyone else has suggested it, but I think you ought to put them in chairs, rather than seating them directly on the floor.

    --
    "while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude." de Tocqueville
  80. Ask Boss to Join by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ask your boss to join a session, then take turn farting...

  81. the one true cheap & effective solution by Tumbleweed · · Score: 1

    1) Bean bag chairs
    2) Laptops
    3) Headphones
    4) A big sign in front of each developer that says, "Piss Off!"

    Trust me on this.

  82. Use something mobile by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get some Anthro carts. Put some extensions on the top and attach a shelf where you can put books and a light. Mount your monitors on one of their monitor arm accessories. When you get tired of your first failed configuration, it's not permanent. Unlock the wheels and move things around. When you get kicked out of the office you thought you were going to stay in and have to move again, you push the carts down the hall and plug them in.

  83. That's not flame bait ... by ZeroPly · · Score: 0, Troll

    ... this is flame bait:

    Who cares? They're programmers. They are to the information era what those rows of Chinese women hunched over sewing machines are to the industrial one. You're not going to magically improve the quality of code, or substantially increase productivity, by rearranging their seats. An unhappy programmer working 9 to 5 and constantly afraid of losing his job is still going to produce code. Code that is almost certainly good enough for your purposes.

    If these were artists or mathematicians, yes, environment would matter. But they are not. The romantic notion of the brilliant code hacker is an anachronism, and it has been for a while. You need to understand that you are not running a creativity studio. You are running an assembly line. If you employ someone that writes beautiful, profound code, you need to fire their ass immediately, and replace them with a workhorse who can read the specs and implement them with the same level of passion as a mechanic swapping out an alternator.

    --
    Support microSD: in a post 9/11 world, it is unwise to carry your data on media that you cannot comfortably swallow.
    1. Re:That's not flame bait ... by wellingj · · Score: 1

      The only problem with that is when the mechanic needs to make his own alternator because the one he needs isn't invented yet...

    2. Re:That's not flame bait ... by GunFodder · · Score: 1

      Sadly I agree that many developers will put up with awful working conditions, but that is mostly because they are paid pretty well. I disagree that you don't need brilliant developers, but it can be difficult finding the right balance between folks that write "profound code" and folks that are willing to copy that code and finish all the required functionality. Software development is still growing rapidly, so any company that thinks their developers are willing to put up with anything to keep their jobs is going to lose out when the economy gets good and there are many jobs available.

      If everyone followed your suggestion then developers would all work in the equivalent of a college computer lab - long tables with closely packed workstations and no personal space. I have never seen anyone try this, but even when companies use relatively small, open cubes it can be distracting to many developers. OTOH I have worked in a building where every developer had an office with a door that closed, and that didn't really help either since it made collaboration kind of tough. I think it is worth thinking about productivity when it comes to setting up an office. The incremental costs are not that high compared to the cost of even a single-digit change in a typical developer's productivity.

    3. Re:That's not flame bait ... by atlasdropperofworlds · · Score: 1

      This is the attitude that fails software companies.

    4. Re:That's not flame bait ... by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

      If you employ someone that writes beautiful, profound code, you need to fire their ass immediately, and replace them with a workhorse who can read the specs and implement them with the same level of passion as a mechanic swapping out an alternator.

      Who writes the specs?

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    5. Re:That's not flame bait ... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      What you describe is a situation where a bunch of codemonkeys crank out code. You can easily treat them as such, they're a dozen a dime these days, cranked out by the dozen in a few schools that create people who can halfway decently copy/paste code examples and adjust them to the needs of the given spec.

      If that's what you need, ok. You need the equivalent of cartoon animators. They get a spec, they draw to spec, they animate, job done. The problem starts when you actually need artists instead that can come up with new characters and breathe life into them.

      I could not use such people. I am in IT security, i.e. malware defense and security analysis. 99% of what we need to do is not documented, so better not ask for a copy/paste crib chance. If you could crib, it would no longer be a security concern because then a security solution would exist (else, what'd you wanna crib?). 99% of the time you also do not write code. Punching code in is the very, very last step of the work to be done and consists of about that leftover 1% of the time you spend on the job. Yes, that could be done by a codemonkey by then, but maybe even so, he would probably not understand why or how things are to be done.

      And for that, you need good programmers. You need people who know every bit of the system, from the CPU's quirks to the OS's flaws, he needs to know (not only 'heard of' but KNOW) why and how things happen inside the machine, how an executable is loaded, why registers have certain values and what race conditions happen when, and how these could be exploited.

      And once you found someone like that, you notice his criminal records forbids you to hire him...

      So if (not when) you finally find someone like this, you start to do whatever you can to KEEP this guy. The very last thing you'd want to do is to piss him off with poor working conditions that would cost you a fraction of his paycheck to improve them (because such people tend to be expensive, if you don't pay, someone else is... supply and demand...).

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  84. Half-cubicles by Luke+has+no+name · · Score: 1

    I haven't had extensive experience in the office workplace (two summers as an intern) and to me, the half-cubicle was nice. These are the ones whose walls are about eye level height (for a six foot man) and so you have a bit of privacy and enclosure, while being able to stand up and clearly communicate with those around you.
    --
    Behind every great sysadmin is a bookshelf. Behind every well paid sysadmin, a diploma.

  85. Join the My Work program by nanospook · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The best seating arrangement is for each developer to work at home!

    --
    Have you fscked your local propeller head today?
    1. Re:Join the My Work program by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The best seating arrangement is for each developer to work at home!

      +1

  86. Why not both? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, you're underthinking it and ignoring the human element. Different people have different needs and react better to different environments. Some people hate noise. Others blare music in headphones. Some people multitask and deal with distractions well. Others can't. Some people like human interaction throughout the day. Others hate it.

    It also depends on the task their doing. If the stuff they work on is closely interrelated, ease of communication may help improve productivity. If they aren't, increased distraction will likely reduce it- its pretty hard to concentrate on your work when 2 or 3 people around you are discussing something, code related or not.

    The best situation I ever had was my last job- I had an office with an actual door I could close when I wanted privacy, next to a bunch of cubes where friends worked, so I could leave the door open and interact when I didn't (said interaction may or may not be code related).

    Personally I would hate the round table idea though. Everyone needs some space to themselves for papers, books, pictures of the kids, etc and a round table just doesn't do that.

    How about both a round table and a private cube?

    Privacy when you want it and collaboration when you need it.

  87. RealVNC by sycodon · · Score: 1

    Get the corporate version. Getting onto each others machines is quick and easy.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  88. Don't trust them! by MikeFM · · Score: 1

    Keep them each locked in a closet in the basement. They can't come out to pee or eat until they've finished their monthly quota. Not only will you get more productive coders but they'll lose weight lowering the cost of medical insurance for the bastards! Just be sure to block their network access to all porn and gaming.

    --
    At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
  89. getting in the Zone by v1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Most coders perform best when they are "in the zone", free of distractions, free to concentrate on what they are doing. Focus is important. Coders don't need all day to collaborate, distractions throughout the day are highly destructive to productivity. There NEEDS to be collaboration, but not while you're trying to code. That's what morning meetings are for. Get your communications out of the way, discuss what the goal for the day/week/month is and what's the progress, and then split up and get it done.

    If people have an easy opportunity to knock my out of my Zone every 10 minutes to ask a question or bounce an idea off my, I won't get anything done. And what I DO get done will be lower quality. When someone DOES do that to me, I drop what I am doing, completely. I give them whatever interaction they want, and make it crystal clear to them that they have COMPLETELY stopped my work while I interact with them. Trying to multitask a discussion requiring any amount of thinking breeds bugs faster than a bowl of Alpo on a cockroach farm. After they're done, I take a deep breath, try to remember where I was, and work my way back into my Zone and pray Susy doesn't wander back in 20 minutes with some followup questions. Most people quickly come to understand that the work I do is not compatible with multitasking and interruptions, and are more careful about when they interrupt my work. All of the managers I have had understand how this works, and will politely suggest to the coworker "couldn't this have waited until tomorrow morning?", when they'll find I'm MUCH more social.

    Or maybe you're one of those rare few that can carry on a conversation and code flawlessly at the same time. Not me, not many of us. Face it, limited autism is conducive to good code. ;)

    --
    I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
    1. Re:getting in the Zone by GastronomicalEvent · · Score: 1

      I prefer a couple of drinks to get in the "zone". It helps a lot on the late night work extravaganzas.

      a.k.a the Ballmer peak

  90. Best productivity improvement ever! by GWBasic · · Score: 1, Informative

    My employer recently implemented the best productivity improvement ever. We replaced all of our desk chairs with toilets. Now, we get about an extra hour of work from people a day because no one needs to get up from their desks for bathroom breaks. It took some time to get used to, because the foul smells and rude noises were distracting at first; however, management solved the problem by installing large oder-proof and noise-proof rubber gaskets on everyone's toilet seats.

    After the success of everyone getting their own toilet, we realized that too much time was being wasted finding food and coffee. Thus, we implemented a system that delivers coffee and liquified nourishment to everyone's desk on tap. It also gave us another additional hour of labor per day.

    Now that no one has to get up from their desks, my employer boasts that it has the most productive workforce in the world!

    1. Re:Best productivity improvement ever! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great! All that's left is to blot out the sun.

    2. Re:Best productivity improvement ever! by Geekbot · · Score: 1

      I'm not the only one who thought, "Awesome! How do I get that for my house?"

  91. Sigh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As an individual contributor turned lead, turned manager (of local and remote teams), office for developers is the way to go.

    As a manager, I think it is important to have a cube to invite interaction. A managers job is to run blocker for their team and is generally interrupt driven.

    As a lead, I think it is important to have an office with a white board and one or two guest chairs. A lead is half way between a planner and interrupt driven. It is really important for the lead to provide details in sufficient chunks that remove the need for any sort of blocking communication (i.e. a dev can't continue unless they get an immediate answer is bad).

    As a developer, It is extremely important to provide an environment to focus. An office with a guest chair and white boards is the way to go.

    If the environment dictates that everyone is interrupt driven, this typically means the overall planning is not very good. If the overall planning is not very good, the side effects are a shitty working environment. Don't get me wrong, there are some developers who prefer to be interrupt driven, and there are typically roles on a project that suit the personality type, but having an office is not about discouraging interaction, it is about boosting productivity.

    It saddens me to think people blame offices for poor planning, poor communication and poor productivity. Blame the people who don't do their fucking job...

  92. Worst. Work. Environment. Ever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For me, at least. I'd never take a job that insisted on this kind of seating arrangement, and I'd quit if a workplace changed to it while I was there. And I know no one has any reason to believe this, but employers should want me to stick around. I'm that good.

    I actually worked for a company that switched to an open, shared space seating arrangement from individual offices for every developer years ago, and I got to watch the effect it had on developers. One guy in particular said he was much happier with the new arrangement. Watching him, I could see why. He was an above average programmer, and a rather social fellow. I've seen him go from turning in decent work to checking in code that had serious, sloppy flaws overnight - but he said he preferred the new seating arrangement to the old one. I'd watch him work 8 hours a day, and he would constantly turn around to help other people out, chat with other people, and generally have a very satisfying day, full of fun social interaction - but I could see that his work suffered.

    As for me, For two or three weeks I could give you a full report of everything that happened on our floor - who went to talk to which product manager, who was having problems, what was happening on the other side of the floor where the salespeople were sitting... But I couldn't write a single line of code.

    I got tired of that one day and asked for a laptop. When I got it, I moved into an empty office - put a 5' plant in there, stuck a bunch of computer science books on a shelf (the OpenGL manual, something about distributed algorthms; nothing that was actually relevant to my work at the time. It was decoration.) I kept insisting that it wasn't MY office. It was just somewhere I went when I needed to concentrate, and that anyone else was welcome to use the place. I guess other people found the plant and the books too intimidating - I had the place to myself for another year and a half until my entire group was laid off.

    These days I usually work with my office door closed, and earplugs in my ears. I NEED the quiet.

  93. Productivus interruptus by nickdwaters · · Score: 1

    Have you ever seen devs get anything done sitting around a table? We call those a waste of time, aka meetings where I come frome. In my experience having worked 20 years as a software developer, having experienced private office, home office, cubeville, bullpens, and all manner of craziness... the idea of having four devs around a single table is really just upper management saying "how cheap can we be on accomodations?" or "I'm paranoid as hell and think my devs are not productive because they are playing games and surfing pr0n so I want to watch them." Not all people are able to concentrate on tasks with a lot of racket and distractions around them, that takes a special breed. I took a job with a former submarine commander at his company and he loved working right in the midst of a ridiculously loud customer service bullpen, and tried to get me to work in that. It was his expectation. I tried for a week or two to figure out how to manage, but I couldn't stand it and walked. What a waste of time. Bar none, private offices are superior. Second to that, working from home. Third... high wall cubes. Last and in my opinion the least thoughtful is a bullpen where everything is open air, its very noise, and very distracting. Having devs sitting around a table? Even worse. I like my privacy, and need to be able to tune out.

  94. Why not get their input? :-) by lagunastarman · · Score: 1

    How about asking the four developers for input? You might find productivity goes up when the producers are actually involved in the decision making for things that directly effect them every day :-)

  95. Spartan is best to focus the mind by symbolset · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think the ideal arrangement is a C3000 max config blade cluster tower driving 8 40" LCD displays. Preferably seating would be a motorized recliner with six degrees of freedom. There should be sufficient audio facilities to provide a pleasant working environment for the programmer. This setup should be arranged on a well lit patio next to a heated indoor pool. There should be plenty of staff to bring refreshments, fresh towels, and printouts. For ad-hoc diagrams some "sidewalk chalk" can be handy.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
    1. Re:Spartan is best to focus the mind by plover · · Score: 1

      I think the ideal arrangement is a C3000 max config blade cluster tower driving 8 40" LCD displays. Preferably seating would be a motorized recliner with six degrees of freedom. There should be sufficient audio facilities to provide a pleasant working environment for the programmer. This setup should be arranged on a well lit patio next to a heated indoor pool. There should be plenty of staff to bring refreshments, fresh towels, and printouts. For ad-hoc diagrams some "sidewalk chalk" can be handy.

      As long as you're going so minimalist, you forgot the hot and cold running wenches.

      --
      John
    2. Re:Spartan is best to focus the mind by Cylix · · Score: 1

      I had a similar setup at my last job. It was amazing for productivity. Above all else we found that it fosters efficient, fast and powerful rapid development.

      While your design neglects power naps and the benefits of inebriation I believe it could suffice.

      --
      "You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
    3. Re:Spartan is best to focus the mind by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      There should be sufficient audio facilities to provide a pleasant working environment for the programmer.

      On the not-implausible assumption that you're an American, I'll assume that these facilities include your Second-Amendment-guaranteed rights to machine-gun the mother-fucker next to you for that incomprehensible crap that he considers "pleasant".
      If you want noise in my working environment, you'd better have some extremely effective headphones. Effective at keeping your noise in.

      To answer the original question : everyone is different ; get a budget for the task and a floor area ; allocate some of it to internal divisions of the working area (movable sound-absorbing room dividers, perhaps something floor to ceiling depending on the building's construction?), then give the rest of the budget to the people that you're entrusting with your much more valuable task. If they can't come to a decision about this without people in adjoining towns getting hit by the shrapnel, then perhaps the team isn't right. At which point, you've got a much bigger issue.
      (Elaboration : not only is everyone different, but one person is likely to be different at one end of the year from the other ; flexibility.)

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    4. Re:Spartan is best to focus the mind by ijakings · · Score: 3, Funny

      Imagine a beowulf cluster of these

    5. Re:Spartan is best to focus the mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ATTN BOSSES:

      Notwithstanding the apparent smartaleck bent, the post is quite serious.

      To maximize the output of a programmer you must optimize the efficiency and focus of their brain, and that includes convenience. Note that the pool was -not- to come with bikini girls. It's there for bathing and for dealing with muscle spasms.

    6. Re:Spartan is best to focus the mind by symbolset · · Score: 1

      That's so sexist. I don't know what to say except that I'm deleting you from my "slashdot friends". You're a sick puppy.

      The pool though as a practical matter should be coed and clothing optional, as most coders prefer their pools that way and that's the best path to good code.

      --
      Help stamp out iliturcy.
    7. Re:Spartan is best to focus the mind by kimvette · · Score: 1

      Are you serious? There is no frigging way we could tolerate such lousy working conditions. None of us would settle for anything less than 46-inch LCD monitors, or in a pinch if asked nicely and our inconvenience offset by compensation, possibly 42" displays.

      40" LCD screens. Feh. I spit on your proposal.

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    8. Re:Spartan is best to focus the mind by plover · · Score: 1

      I was actually trying to figure out how to post "hot and cold running MOTAS" but as a punchline it just lacked something. So I went old-school, sorry if it offended you.

      --
      John
    9. Re:Spartan is best to focus the mind by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute.

    10. Re:Spartan is best to focus the mind by beerbear · · Score: 1

      He's just mad he forgot the wenches and you didn't. Don't worry.

      --
      Hold my beer and watch this!
  96. The Dev Cave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We had "The Dev Cave". It was this little room with 4 desks that we'd rearrange as we wanted that week. We had one door with a window into a hallway next to the door. We'd turn off the lights and just work by the light of our monitors most of the time, hence the name. We had a massive whiteboard on one wall. Add to that the mini-fridge (with soda *cough*don'tlookbehindthesoda*cough*) and a manager who wasn't around often... Sure, we'd goof off, but when we needed to, we'd buckle down and get things done. There would be hours with little more heard than keyboard and mouse sounds. And then there were the days with the Red Bull and Jager. Seriously, though, it was a fantastic team and we did some great stuff. The biggest thing was that we were generally isolated from our people and our manager when we were working. Just having a separate room meant we were rarely interrupted. We also didn't have to count our hours. If we showed up for meetings and got the job done, that was good enough for our boss. I think it kept my head in my work better, because goofing off just meant I didn't get to go home early.

  97. Correct Answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you are lonely and want company, go to bar (e.g. forget about all this pair coding and shared room nonsense).

    If you want to get stuff done, then get an office, preferably with a door, or even better, let your guys work from home.

    You'd be amazed how so restrictive pants are.

  98. An easy choice for me by chriswei · · Score: 3, Informative

    I've worked in quite a few different situations over the years, both as a developer and developer/manager:

    a) a shared trestle table with 6 programmers facing across each other in pairs

    b) a private office in a group of 8 offices surrounding a common area with couches and floor-to-ceiling whiteboards

    c) a low bench in the back of a semi-trailer on a folding chair (luckily only for a week of 14-hour days)

    d) a shared office with one other person

    e) a regular private office

    f) a shared office with three other people

    g) a standard 6' high cubicle farm with your back to the 'door' on busy aisles, next to the creative department with 'open plan' tables, 4 to a 'pod' all facing the center

    By FAR the best situation was b). The doors and half the wall facing the common area were glass with blinds. You could leave the door open and blinds up if you felt like being 'part of the community', or you could close the blinds and the door and turn on some music - without headphones - to focus for as long as you wanted. Discussions were held in someone's office or taken out to the common area for more of a group discussion.

    The shared offices weren't bad, as you'd establish a rapport with your office mate(s) and come to some understanding of how your mate(s) worked.

    The worst is the situation I'm in now - the cubicle farm next to the 'open-plan' teams. There's random noise all day, people having meetings in their cubicles or on the phone all day with customers. The only way to focus is to put on studio headphones and crank up the volume, and then you end up with people standing behind you in the cubicle talking at you for five minutes before you realize they're even there.

    And since it's all open, everyone feels free to shout questions to each other over the cubicle walls instead of sending an IM, walking over to ask a question quietly, or take the discussion to a meeting room. And having a conversation with one of your direct reports means scheduling a meeting room or standing out in the hall outside the office.

    Needless to say, I get at least twice as much done in a given period when I work at home. The dev team is always coming up with new excuses to work from home. And, of course, senior management, who all have nice window offices, can't understand how it could be difficult to work in that environment.

    1. Re:An easy choice for me by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      And, of course, senior management, who all have nice window offices, can't understand how it could be difficult to work in that environment.

      That sounds a lot like my company, except that we engineers have to work in a bull-pen ourselves. Senior management all has nice offices, yet they think bullpens are great for productivity.

  99. What your boss really wants to hear... by kimanaw · · Score: 1
    Any arrangement In India.

    (or maybe China)

    Seriously, if you need to worry about "seating arrangements", you probably need a housecleaning. If the work is so mindnumbing that where/how a developer sits is important, maybe offshoring it would be doing the employees a favor...

    --
    007: "Who are you?"
    Pussy: "My name is Pussy Galore."
    007: "I must be dreaming..."
  100. What we have works by swordgeek · · Score: 1

    For a team of four, I'd recommend a large office with a door, whiteboards, and four desks. Also, space for a fifth desk or a small table.

    This gives them the collaboration of an open environment without tossing them into a cube farm. You can have privacy if there are only a few other people around.

    --

    "People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
  101. Peopleware by magical+liopleurodon · · Score: 2, Informative

    To answer the question: read peopleware!! http://www.amazon.com/Peopleware-Productive-Projects-Teams-Second/dp/0932633439

    It deals with this specifically. The conclusion that the author came to is basically that people should have offices. Cubes and "open workspaces" are too noisy and distracting. This whole thing with open workspaces came out of the 70s -- I think you had to be on drugs to think it was a good idea tbh. Education/academia found out the hard way that it didn't work, but businesses haven't figured it out yet -- all businesses look at is "if I cram this many more people into a tight workspace, I save so much more money vs renting more space" without a care to productivity. Productivity is a hard thing to measure after all, but a good effort is made in peopleware and IBM did a study as well. IBM and Microsoft give their workers offices, the reasons are inside the book.

  102. Depends??? by bobwoodard · · Score: 1

    I think you should ask your developers. Some mixes of developers I've worked with would have been great in a close seating arrangement and others would have driven me straight up the wall.

    Also, if you're going to have them facing each other, make sure the monitors are adjustable; I worked with a guy who had a pretty bad facial tick and if that guy had been in my line of sight, I would have been pretty much useless as I waited for the next spasm to show up!

  103. The best set-up, gauranteed by GameMaster · · Score: 3, Funny

    That's easy, the best seating arrangement is in a ring around my desk with their backs turned towards me so I can watch their monitors, at all times, and make sure they aren't doing anything other than coding. The best seats are backless stools with only one or two legs so they can't relax/loose focus without falling over.

    WHAT!? My employees love me!

    --

    Rules of Conduct:
    #1 - The DM is always right.
    #2 - If the DM is wrong, see rule #1
  104. Visual Audio isolation a must by jwhitener · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Having gone through many office arrangement fads in the last 15 years, the one thing that consistently works, when management is good, is pretty much standard cubes or offices.

    Collaboration without thought is simply placing people next to each other. Collaboration that is well thought out, is a good design process, good tools, and consistent clear management directives.

    Another thing I've found useful is to not be stingy with tools (computers, software, extra monitors, etc...) and allowing people to have multiple of whatever they want. Let programmers have their own space or office (office is ideal), with 2 computers in each. If a couple folks want to team up for an afternoon, they can work in the same office. But come the next day, when they need to go back and focus on individual areas, zero distraction is what works. Computers are cheap in comparison to the salaries you're paying.

    And lastly, the rest factor. If someone hits a wall, and just wants to zone out for 10 minutes browsing, say, slashdot:) for a while, doing so guilt-free because others can't see them is very beneficial. If instead there is pressure to work constantly, the quality of the work is going to go downhill. It has been estimated in various studies that people only do real work 5-6 hours out of an 8 hour shift.

    That occurs for various reasons. But if people are pressured/forced to work longer than that national average, you'll still end up with people only working 5-6 hours out of an 8 hour shift, wasting 2-3 hours interrupting other people or zoning out pretending to work. And zoning out on nothing is boring, and de-stimulates the mind, making getting back into work slower/harder. If instead, a person is allowed to 'zone out' on something engaging (youtube video, phone call to friend, etc..) their mind will both be rested and still turned on when they return to work.

  105. You are retarded. by iplayfast · · Score: 3, Interesting

    At first I thought you were being sarcastic, and it was modded insightful as further sillyness.

    Then I realized you were serious.

    You sound just like a PHB who has no understanding of the beauty of code.

    A programmer taking pride in his work can create much better code then an "unhappy programmer working 9 to 5 and constantly afraid of losing his job".

    I've worked in unhappy environments, and also happy ones. Guess which one I was more productive in.

    I don't know what type of sweat shop you are running but I don't think I would last there 5 minutes. I'd be gone as soon as you said assembly line. And for your information, a workhorse can't read specs, and a programmer without passion for his job will not follow them.

    1. Re:You are retarded. by Antiocheian · · Score: 1

      Judging from personal experience, I believe he is right. My best pieces of code come out when I'm in a great mood without pressures from elsewhere and plenty of time to finish the project. In my worst days I've produced code that simply met expectations.

      You sound just like a PHB who has no understanding of the beauty of code [...] I don't know what type of sweat shop you are running

      He is serious through sarcasm. Read him again.

    2. Re:You are retarded. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sound just like a PHB who has no understanding of the beauty of code.

      Perhaps is a PHB who has actually read Peopleware; The Mythical Man Month; Dynamics of Software Development; Death March and a host of others. And understand the difference between problems with known solutions; problems with unknown solutions and self centred prima donnas who create "art" rather than the code that was required.

      Untill you understand how this shop's problems are broken between the disparate pulls of innovation; UI polish; defect rates and shear volume you can't make that call.

  106. Developers or college kids doing data entry? by Liquidrage · · Score: 1

    Developers should have offices. Near each other. But offices. It's a highly technical field and one that should have some amount of respect. The cubicle farm people can all go rot in hell or work for EA or SAP or something.

  107. i'd kill for a cube! by junk · · Score: 1

    Cave, headphones, loud music. I can't stand having people walk up to me, or trying to chat with me, while I'm head down in a problem. I'm currently in the back row of three rows of desks and I'd kill my underlings for a cubicle. Privacy is a right granted to you by the Supreme Court (affectively, of the course of the years) and taken away once you enter your office. Kinda sucks...

  108. Not facing each other by ciaran_o_riordan · · Score: 1

    Four around a round table would mean everyone facing each other. That makes it difficult to stare into empty space, which is very necessary. Looking directly at your screen for hours on end is dehumanising.

    I also found that my eyes get tired when I work facing a wall. Maybe it's bad for your eyes to stay in very-short-distance focus mode for long periods. I solved this problem by putting a mirror behind my laptop. It's tilted slightly upwards so I can stare into it without staring at someone else.

  109. "Seating Arrangement"? That's SO 20th Century... by pnellesen · · Score: 1

    WTF does physical location have to do with how "productive" your developers are? If you've got the right people, you don't have to worry about it - give them the job, set the schedule, and get out of their way. Doesn't matter if they all work in the same building, or if none of them are even in the same country. Yeah, I'm biased - I've worked from my basement on a team scattered across about 4 time zones for the past 5 years, and it's been great. I highly recommend THAT "seating arrangement" ;) If "productivity" has ever been a problem, nobody's ever mentioned it to us...

  110. Ask your team by Brain-Fu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You want to know how to arrange your developers? Why in the world don't you just ask them? Why are you asking slashdot?

    Your developers know their preferences and corporate culture better than a bunch of strangers on a web forum. And they will happily tell you what they think would be optimal and why.

    I don't understand why it is so popular for managers to think that they can maximize the productivity of their team by ignoring input from the team. It is utterly ridiculous. What...are you hiring children? Bums off the street, perhaps? Retards? Or are you hiring intelligent, professional, problem-solving specialists who are predisposed to have an interest in effeciency?

    Sheesh.

    1. Re:Ask your team by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Funny

      Depends on the size of the company, in my experience. The bigger the corp, the higher the chance that they mostly hire bums that try their best to just goof off instead of doing any sensible work.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Ask your team by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      You want to know how to arrange your developers? Why in the world don't you just ask them?

      Because they're developers, not workplace design specialists.

      On paper a certain layout may look good, but be terrible in practice. Also, likeable is not necessarily the same as efficient.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    3. Re:Ask your team by palmin · · Score: 1

      These thing are not mutually exclusive. He can ask both his team and slashdot, perhaps feeding suggestions from slashdot back to his team for comments before making a final decision. No need to assume the guy is a bad manager, even if there are plenty of bad managers around.

    4. Re:Ask your team by TimurLeng · · Score: 1

      Hey man, I just *love* your reply. Managers are so intentionally, utterly clueless about how to treat their people that often I think its part of their job description. Like in the old British Army were officers were told not to mingle to much with "the common soldier". Why the heck does he put this question on slashdot in the first place? Doesn't he trust his people or what? Does he have nothing but children working for him? Those developers should be groWn adults, SO JUST GO AND ASK THEM WHAT THEY WANT!

      --
      Free will is the illusion that our wits could compensate for our brain's faulty circuitry.
    5. Re:Ask your team by tsm_sf · · Score: 1

      Because they're developers, not workplace design specialists.

      As opposed to all the high-end specialists on /., willing to work for you for free?

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
    6. Re:Ask your team by Krokus · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Unfortunately, on the rare occasion where I get asked where I would like to be located, I reply, "in a closed office with a door, by myself, on the opposite side of the office from the rest of the team." Management typically thinks I say this because I demand privilege, but what I really desire most is a quiet place at which people don't strike up water cooler conversations three feet away and that is as difficult as possible for people on the team to walk up and start talking to me instead of sending me an email.

      And no, I've never been granted that request. Ever. I have always been put out on the main open floor of cubicles amidst the chaos and noise.

    7. Re:Ask your team by Javagator · · Score: 1
      in a closed office with a door, by myself...

      I prefer this arrangement, myself. However, there has to be some mechanism put in place to ensure communication between developers. Things like instant messaging, informal demos, etc.

    8. Re:Ask your team by stewbacca · · Score: 1

      You want to know how to arrange your developers? Why in the world don't you just ask them?

      Because what they want and what is best for a team of developers might not be the same thing?

    9. Re:Ask your team by syousef · · Score: 1

      You want to know how to arrange your developers? Why in the world don't you just ask them?

      Apart from being stupid about not asking his developers, he's trying to create a workplace where open or closed dominate. Developers may not always want one or the other. The best environment would allow developers to work in isolation when they needed no distraction and bring them together easily face to face when they wanted to collaborate. Not when their bosses decide it must be so.

      If they're happy with laptops and net connections (And external keyboards). it's easy Ask them what they want most of the time and then either arrange meeting rooms where they can sit around and collaborate in addition to traditional cubicles, or give them break out rooms where they can work isolated if they prefer to sit together for the majority of the itme. If they don't like the laptops desktops + remote desktop might work.

      --
      These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
    10. Re:Ask your team by Talla · · Score: 1

      Unless different teams consist of different individuals with different preferences, in which case an arrangement that can make one group very productive can make others miserable...

    11. Re:Ask your team by denmarkw00t · · Score: 1

      I sing your praises, sir. The one thing I've seen time and again is for management to do "the best" for their developers without consulting the devs themselves, but instead going to outside consultants and the like for the advice that is sitting right under their noses. It's as if they feel the developers would game them if they asked what they wanted or what setups would be the best for them, but the truth is that you do nothing more than upset your developers when you leave them out of the loop "for their own good" or whatever. Upset developers means less focused, productive developers, and management wonders why we're on /. at work...

    12. Re:Ask your team by gr8dude · · Score: 1

      A few months ago I was facing the same task - my conclusion was that asking people wasn't a good idea.

      Options to choose from? Maybe... but ask them what they want - and you'll get a set of mutually exclusive requirements, or suggestions that are too expensive to implement, or layouts that conflict with somebody else's wish.

      For example, person A wants to be seated near a window, person B wants to be facing the door (such that no one walks behind their back). It turns out they both want the same spot (such is the configuration of the room).

      Everyone is an adult, everyone is a reasonable person with analytical skills - yet they weren't really cooperative, pretending they didn't see the XOR between their wish and someone else's wish.

      My advice is to make sure that you have enough "dictator willpower" to enforce a decision in the end. Otherwise, if you give people a lot of freedom, they will feel discomfort when eventually you have no choice but to say "We'll do it my way" (they spent time drawing all those excellent sketches, and in the end you just discarded them ;-).

      Also, be prepared to be nagged in the future - "I told you we should've done X, didn't I?"

      On the other hand, if you're just 4 people, and none of them is a female... maybe it will be easy :-)

    13. Re:Ask your team by fru1tcake · · Score: 1

      Sure, get their input, but people can only speak from their experience. Maybe no-one in the team (of only four) has ever worked in a 'round table' layout. Maybe they have a preferred layout, but that layout in practice could reduce overall productivity. Just because they are intelligent doesn't mean they know all the answers to all the questions. You could just say "re-arrange the desks in x fashion and see if productivity/staff satisfaction improves" but if you read the question fully they are looking at buying new furniture and hoping for an optimal solution. And let's face it, not all developers will come through with the best answer to such a question.

      I am sick of people responding with "geez, work it out for yourself" to valid questions from people seeking answers to practical questions with sometimes-unclear answers. Isn't that what "Ask Slashdot" is about? Some people seem to shoot down every article that is posted on Slashdot and complain about the ongoing lack of quality submissions... well why would you bother submitting if you're just going to get slammed? And yet some of these supposedly stupid questions end up resulting in some really interesting and informative debate.

      Sheesh.

      --
      It's not a bug, it's a lepidopter!
    14. Re:Ask your team by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All these desk and organizing fads in programming is making me sick! It reminds me so much of the useless few management classes I took. It is all just fad driven.

      IMHO, cramming people together like rats and even 8 hr / day pair-programming are counter productive. It makes managers feel like they are doing something when they aren't dong a thing.

      Give programmers 1) space to think (their own space), 2) have an open meeting space or conference room for interaction, 3) take away distractions (which includes 90% of the meetings), 4) pay them a PROFESSIONAL salary so they have fewer worries outside of work, and 5) manage their high-level big-picture time/schedule, but don't micro-manage them.

    15. Re:Ask your team by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Also, likeable is not necessarily the same as efficient.

      If your employees don't like their workplace, chances are good that they'll go somewhere else.

    16. Re:Ask your team by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I liked my prior workplace, where I had a standard cubicle (one with a lot of space though, not one of these "compressed" ones), surrounded by other cubicles with my teammates. I had some privacy, I didn't have people walking right up behind me like I do now, and when conversations did happen, the high cubicle walls kept the conversation from being too distracting (and kept me from having direct sight of all the people standing around), while still allowing me to hear if it was something I wanted to participate in.

  111. Simple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You work in America and they VPN in from India. The office will smell better and the project will come in under budget.

  112. Bunk-Desks! by Joe+U · · Score: 1

    2 words?

    Bunk-Desks.

    You put one person on top one on the bottom and I really shouldn't suggest something this crazy, some HR nut would think I'm being serious and actually implement it.

  113. Position Doesn't Matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not the shape of the desk, or even their position relative to each other, so much as it is the quality of communication amongst the team.

  114. Lessons from software engineering course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm right now taking a course in software engineering. What we are taught is that the least amount of distractions, the better.

    Developing software is considered creative work and that is best done in a flow-state. For your average developer it can take up to 30 min to get in a flow. Small distractions can break the flow or prevent getting into it. So even basic math says that if a 1 minute conversation really costs 30 mins in productivity, it's better to give peaceful and quiet workplaces.

  115. Bad Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Flamebait is right. This is the stupidest idea. Having developers (or any type of worker) sit around a round table will only create distractions. I work in a similar environment, and productivity is very low because of the constant noise of people talking. "Forcing" people to then use headphones to cut out noise is a VERY BAD IDEA because over prolonged usage, it damages the ears due to close proximity to the ear drum. Just try it for 10+ years. Studies have been shown that telephone operators suffer from hearing loss because of this. To me, this round table idea is completely obvious that it's a bad idea, and it's difficult for me to understand why someone would even think it's possibly a good idea.

  116. Facing away from each other. by tedpearson · · Score: 1

    At a previous job, I worked in a room with desk space set up in a large U shape around the room. Each of us worked in or near one of the corners, facing out (to windows, wall, or through the door out into the rest of the building).

    I found that this worked well for both doing your own work without interference (headphones and music also helped) but also lent itself to collaboration. All I had to do to ask one of the other devs a question was turn around and speak up.

    I really don't like the idea of facing toward other devs without some sort of barrier blocking my view, as I would think I'd find it rather distracting.

  117. Circular Tables are Bad... by paploo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I have been working with a team of 3-6 developers for quite some time. Recently we moved offices and ended up sitting around a big round table; and our productivity went to hell as a result. It didn't take very long before the team scattered, with many people working from coffee shops or home, and the remaining devs claiming vacant desks.

    The problem is that development is done in two phases: You work with others to develop a plan, and then run off and get into "the zone" and get stuff done. The problem with "the zone" is that it is very fragile, and so all it takes is hearing two devs laughing about something through your headphones and now you aren't working either.

    In other words, putting all the devs tightly packed together all day means that every time one dev is distracted for any little reason, suddenly they all become distracted.

    If your dev team is important to your company's product and/or revenue, do everyone a favor and give them each an office with a window, as well as a common room to "hang out" in when they need to collaborate.

  118. Best seating arrangement for developers by m6ack · · Score: 1

    Private offices -- bar none -- are the best seating arrangement for quality developers.

  119. Back of a bus? by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

    So I had a job where we were building a Java EE app and configuration problems, buggy, opaque, non-interoperable frameworks, layers etc took 50% of the team's time and builds took 1/2 an hour. Oh and the boss interrupted randomly with a complete non-sequitur urgent request at a frequency rarely less than once per hour.

    Meanwhile, I cranked out a nice python webapp (hobby project) on my macbook in the back of the bus on the daily commute. I got about as much done in the hour of commuting, guarding the computer from flying down the aisle due to lead-foot bus drivers, or from being bashed by backpacks and handbags, but otherwise relatively undistracted, as in the rest of the day, easy.

    Moral of the story: the back of a bus is essentially similar to having your own office, or coding in an empty apartment. If you put your mind to it, you can actually stay in flow state. No one demands the same part of your brain you're using to design and program with. Oh and JEE is far far gone.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  120. Cubicles ripped apart by Dr.+Hok · · Score: 2, Interesting

    We (a team of 5) moved into new office space a month ago. We were put into 5 adjacent cubicles in a very large room. Which sucks: you are close enough to annoy each other by noise, e.g. phone calls, but not close enough to cooperate (which requires line of sight).

    After a few days we removed the walls separating 4 of our cubicles, which took us a good hour and created a space of roughly 4x6 meters. The walls of the resulting big cubicle are lined with small tables, which we use when we want to work separately. In the middle, we have a table, which we use when we meet. When someone calls in a meeting, everybody just swings his chair around, and viola, the meeting starts within seconds.

    On the central table sits a computer with two screens (sometimes facing opposite directions, showing same contents, sometimes side by side with different windows), two keyboards and two mice, so each of us can easily grab a device to point, write, etc. This computer has a complete IDE, and all documentation is in a wiki, the code is in SVN etc., so it has basically the same configuration as the others and everybody is familiar with it. Our meetings sometimes escalate when all of us compete for control of the mouse cursor, but generally discipline is high enough.

    We found that this arrangement is the ideal balance between single and group workplace:

    You want to work alone, turn your back to the others, face the wall. It gives you just about the privacy you need. You can listen to the discussions in the middle, but you don't have to.

    You want to co-work (pair programming, discuss, etc.) turn around and face the middle.

    We will definitely keep this arrangement, because we all find it very convenient, and we think that our productivity has increased a lot through it.

    Of course, it might require more tables or computers than you have, but Ikea is around the corner, and you probably have a few unused PCs around your place anyway.

    --
    Say out loud: I'm an Aspie and I'm somewhat proud, I guess. Uh. Can I write an email in all caps instead? Hm...
  121. Offices for developers, shared areas managers! by jgeada · · Score: 2, Informative

    Development requires utter concentration. As far as I am concerned, the optimum arrangement for developers is one enclosed office each with plenty of bookshelves to stash away reference books and surfaces put up enough monitors. A nearby conference room with lots of whiteboards and chairs for the occasional brainstorming meeting would also be very helpful. However, management, as I've been told, relies on communicating with people. Maybe they should be the ones put around that circular table in the middle of the room that is now available ... :-)

    1. Re:Offices for developers, shared areas managers! by weicco · · Score: 1

      Hear ye! Hear ye! I love my office, which I unfortunately share with our helpdesk person. If I need to collaborate, which I do very often, then we have these collaboration tools available: phones, emails, video calls, etc. We've been also known to go meetings with people from our department and even with other departments from, but not too often so they don't get used to us. Too much collaboration tends to bring a heck load of work for our department and some of those extra works aren't really necessary ones.

      But what I don't need is the feeling that someone is constantly watching me, or to be precise my monitor. I'm a little paranoid so I don't like any open settings. I know that nobody's really wathing my monitor but even the feeling is distracting.

      --
      You don't know what you don't know.
  122. The Best Seating Arrangement Ever. by Ramon+Maruko · · Score: 1

    The man train arrangement would be best for programmers. Try it.

  123. Idiots from 1950s assembly line run the org by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm a dinosaur geek. Programming since the early 80s. I thought I was "not a people person". I would have to respectfully say "you and your organization are idiots." You should fire yourself.
    If you can't move your butt ten feet to ask your coworkers, whom you're impacting, what their opinion is, then you don't respect them at all. Since you are doing that, I automatically extrapolate that your company does that too. You should fire each other, turn the company over to the "touchy feely developers" who seem to have more people skills than you.
    I bet you guys call yourselves "Human Capital Recruiters" too.
    Real slick. Go back to the blue collar 1950s manufacturing line that you and your management team obviously came from.

    Put them in their own OFFICE not a cube, not anything open. Give them laptops, wifi the building. Put several OPEN areas with tables and comfortable chairs. Let them work from home. They will congregate as needed and when needed,. They aren't morons, they are human machines. Right!?
    What a dufus.

    1. Re:Idiots from 1950s assembly line run the org by religious+freak · · Score: 1

      Who says old programmers are bitter? lmao

      --
      If you can read this... 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011
  124. my $.02 by Hillview · · Score: 1

    Offices, or well designed cubicles - the kind with high walls on four sides, with room for two people when necessary to sit in chairs and discuss.
    A meeting room. Now, the thing that lets this work is a central way to collaborate- a way to for two or more to view the same desktop via VNC or a similar app, a central IM solution, and a chat server. Ventrilo or Teamspeak, they're not just for games. If you're a linux shop, it's not difficult at all to use Ventrilo in wine, for those of you who'll cry that Teamspeak's audio quality sucks.

    You have privacy and openness in one. 2-3 or more people can sit at their desks and discuss while they work, in familiar environments, without having to see, smell, or listen to co-worker's annoying habits.

    --
    -Troll, Flamebait, and Offtopic are NOT equivalent to disagreement.
  125. Urgh, Peopleware by Rogerborg · · Score: 1

    Big private offices: see Peopleware, which is still the only text that actually uses studies and stats rather than Feng Shui wizard-gabble.

    Of course, nobody (short of Google) can afford that any more, so we make up bullshit reasons to justify cramming devs into cramped noisy battery farms, while neatly ignoring that the job of a developer is to develop, not to network.

    --
    If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
  126. Small concrete cells by gig · · Score: 1

    As little light as possible. Just throw a steak in there from time to time.

  127. Ask Your Developers by KickAssTunes · · Score: 1

    The worst thing managers can do is NOT ask their employees what works best for them. Every person is a little different, so what works great for one person might not for someone else. Some people have very tough jobs and need privacy, but others are deadwood filling a seat so it doesnt' matter when they want. Managers need to tell them constraints, like the budget to do it, and how much time to do it.

    People who don't do the work are the worst ones to decide what is best! There are many managers that do lots of moronic crap so they can put it on their resume as appearing they did something important....those are the worst aholes that you have around!

  128. old practices were the best... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Simple answer
    Google environment, "copyleft" from WANG development days, as evolved at D.E.C. premises. Those were the days, and engineering at its peak. Of course @Boston.

  129. panopticon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    take a leap of faith, and go with the panopticon to help install that sense of paranoia that all employees need

  130. Paired programming by Endophage · · Score: 1

    I've always found that both I and many of my friends like to work in pairs so arrange the desks into 2 pairs where the pair can see eachother's screens. Also, make sure the devs feel comfortable hotseating. It should be their space as a team, not 4 individual spaces. Some offices even go as far as having one computer per 2 devs so people have to work paired. It's actually a great work dynamic as it's difficult to focus for a whole 8 hours of coding during a work day but it's reasonably easy to be an extra set of eyes on somebody elses coding. Having 2 devs working at a single station you often get more and better code (than if they were working separately) as the code quality will reflect the experience of both devs while 2 sets of eyes reduces errors so less time is spent debugging later.

    I guess it will somewhat depend on what you expect them to be doing. If they will be working mainly on maintenance and sys admin tasks then arrangement is less important. If they are working on real software development projects then they need to be able to collaborate easily. Don't worry about devs chatting and wasting time, they will do that anyway. Writing good software requires significantly more focus than just about any other job in your office and it's important that a devs can clear their mind to take a fresh look at their work and make sure everything is on track. Heck, when I chat to my colleagues we tend to be debating pros and cons of different approaches to problems anyway which benefits us an the company as we produce better code by pooling the best ideas.

  131. Modular furniture by ananthap · · Score: 1

    If you dont mix higher grades or suits with them, I think any way is all right. I had a team of 35 younger programmers of mixed gender and multiple projects in one room with a conference room that could hold less than half the number. They tended to group around specialities and skills and not projects. For project meetings including with end users, the conference room was used. If you are not on a budget, get good modular furniture so that you can change it around (with a little work on network cabling). End

  132. Glare by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    but if the walls are all windows then it could work.

    If the walls are all windows and none of them face the sun it might.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  133. Pods/quads work well for our team by iaamoac · · Score: 1

    Where I am presently, we use pods/quads--similar to four cubicles that open up into shared middle space in which is a nice round table. We each have semi-privacy as everyone works in their corner of the pod/quad. We are close enough together that we can share ideas very easily, and have enough privacy that we can withdraw from the others when needed. All it takes is a quick roll of the chair. The centre table also makes it a convenient place for lunching together, code reviews, design brainstorming....

    It might not be for everyone but it works for us.

    Additionally, when populating the pods, we try to mix the new programmers into a pod with the seasoned programmers. It helps them learn faster as help (if necessary) is right there, and they can learn a lot just by listening in to the design conversations.

  134. Herzberg - hygiene factor by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    When they're bad they bring productivity down, but the best working conditions in the world won't make mediocre developers brilliant.

    They're what Herzberg called a hygiene factor.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  135. Sitting developers opposite each other is fine... by asdf7890 · · Score: 1

    Sitting developers opposite each other is fine, as long as I'm no longer opposite the one who interrupts and takes "hang on a minute" said fourth time as meaning "no I'm really not trying to concentrate on something at the moment, please keep waffling on at me about the silly problem any idiot could fix instead of listening to my request that you wait just one bloody minute". Not that I'm bitter or anything.

  136. Individual offices with doors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've worked in all sorts of development environments. If you want me to code, you need to remove as many distractions from my environment as possible.

    At my first job out of college, I got an office. The thin office walls connected to a seldom used conference room and the VP of our site who was hardly ever on the phone or held meetings inside his office. Calm, quiet, great for coding.

    I switched teams and was provided access to a "lab" environment where people came and went all day. First come, first served on any system there. My team setup our desks to imply we owned our systems, but that wasn't true for most of them. It was for mine, but it was paid for by a specific contract and only a few people actually had accounts on it. This lab was a fishbowl - windows on 3 sides with government dignitaries looking in and pointing. I learned to not pick my nose there. It was noisy, distracting, really hard for a human to work in this environment.

    Next job, I was placed into a cube farm at first. I suspect most people have those. 1 dev, 1 cube. It seems like the distractions would be minimized. My cube was at the end of a row, against the wall. Very little foot traffic, but the noisy over the entire farm was difficult to handle without headphones. My team all sat in a cluster of 10 of those cubes and most of us used headphones. We would yell over the cubes and "gopher" for a quick meeting. Wads of paper were used to get someone's attention.

    Next job, at a Fortune 50 company trying the new team-oriented seating setups. You know, a table in the middle with workspaces around it where 4-10 devs can work. This was terrible. We'd hear each others' personal conversations, issues about different projects, and these spaces were setup with 4 different teams sharing a divider, so you could have 16 people working without any sound barriers. Phones, cell phones, normal conversations and work. TERRIBLE.

    My concentration was best in the individual office. It doesn't cut you off from your team and it is a good feeling to close the door when you really need to concentrate or simply talk with your wife about your pregnancy in private. My team had a rule about office doors - they shouldn't be used unless really needed. It worked. Offices also prevent sounds that can distract others.

    One day two FBI guys were sitting in my office when I returned from lunch. Ah .... that's a different story.

  137. I like flexibility. Everything movable. by h00manist · · Score: 1

    Software is dynamic. People get hired, leave, promoted, move. Equipment comes and goes, gets rearranged, reconfigured. Cable locations and requirements keep changing. Convenient, large cable guides running along lots of flat surface table, shelves above and below the desk to sit devices like printers, routers, switches, extra monitors, etc all around your workstation in any arrangement you want, lots of space behind the long tables to run cables in any way you want. Perhaps networking with some sort of safe 'testing network' separate from the production in the rest of the company, to run weird servers, routers, etc. No complaints that it's messy or ugly, it's a lab, not a meeting room, but efforts to keep minimum neatness and order are needed. Silence please, rules of low noise level, library like, concentration and attention is required. That's me at least.

    --
    Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
  138. Open Office by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An open room is the best. You will never have people on you tube. You will never have people on the phone instead of working.....etc...etc

    Coding without my pair makes me sad :(

  139. Let the team decide! by Flu · · Score: 1

    Just buy furniture that can be arranged any configuration. The best seating arrangement is best decided by the individuals. Some people get really bothered if someone can peek over their shoulders, while others couldn't care less. Similarly, some might be very distracted by any movement that is visisble for them in the edge of their line-of-sight, and such people would actually prefer to work faceing directly into a wall. Also, the team might change in the future, with people entering and leaving.

  140. Hit the nail on the head by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You hit the nail on the head. Small offices, with room for 1 other chair so someone can see the screen. That's all you need. Doors are good. Whiteboards are good. A small conference space, if your group actually works together. Otherwise, grab conference space when needed.

    Now that I'm a management type, I've got to have room for at least 2 other chairs in my office, but I evicted the 3rd spare chair. Nothing happens when there are 4 people in the room. I don't know why.

  141. Other... by HellYeahAutomaton · · Score: 1

    At their homes, telecommuting, and in a room devoid of small children and/or managers, with their phones off so they can stay focused and get their work done.

  142. Seriously... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Build them a cave, quiet and dark. Pile a bunch of furniture in front of it and let them furnish their cave themselves. At the beginning of each project deliver the Requirement, pizza, hot pockets and multiple cases of caffinated beverages. Leave. At the project milestones deliver more of the same and trade for the results of their work. Hang a sign "Enter at your own Risk". Remember the cave must be virtualized so make sure there is good, fast VPN into the cave. Do this and you will have great success. Do not do this and your mediocrity will know no bounds.

  143. VS2010 by klubar · · Score: 1

    If the walls are Windows (r), then you probably should use Visual Studio.

  144. You Have It Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No seating arrangements, no cubicles, give them each an office with a window. If you can't? Time to find a new job.

  145. 69. by broknstrngz · · Score: 1

    That ought to shut them up, bloody whiners!

  146. Open seating arrangements by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've always found them to be entirely counterproductive filled with unnecessary interruptions and background noise. (Phones are bad enough as it is, let alone having to hear whatever crap that your co-worker likes to listen to bleeding through his earphones/buds, etc.)

    Ideally, I prefer an office with an actual door and a cublicle with at least 5.5' walls a far poorer second choice.

    Email or IMs should more than suffice for most communication discouraging the chatty co-worker who couldn't be bothered to send an email or IM, while still allowing for face-to-face when necessary, however I find most of the face-to-face stuff of any relevance to be either early-planning, or things that you might not wish to be on the record yet or ever.

  147. My suggestion by qmaqdk · · Score: 1
    --
    My UID is prime. Hah!
  148. Corporate culture and individual preferences by Fastolfe · · Score: 1

    Individual attitudes and corporate culture matter a LOT here. If your work culture forbids an occasional trip to Facebook or a Flash game to unwind, people are going to be opposed to the loss of privacy that working in a communal setting usually means. Culture changes are difficult and slow. Some people have attitude or distraction problems and are annoyed by every little sound that their neighbors make, to say nothing about the occasional interruption by a coworker actually taking advantage of the new work arrangement to ask a question. You should probably find a way to accommodate them.

    Build flexibility into the new arrangement. This may mean giving your employees an open space with no (or half-height) cube walls, and let them decide how they want the interior arranged. This may mean new (half-height) cube walls and desk arrangements where some are pointed at walls or windows, and others are pointed at the center, or at someone else. This allows each person to create a space that's as private or accessible as they want. Create a budget for the team to decorate or furnish the space (their own desk and the shared area). Let people order headphones.

    To deal with situations where people just need a break from the group and want to focus, set up wireless and put in some couches in different areas of the floor. If you live in a sunny area and have an accessible patio, put in some furniture and make sure wireless extends out there as well. Each person works differently, and while your boss might be able to measure some aggregate increase in productivity by forcing everyone into their idea of the most productive work arrangement, you're going to make some people annoyed, upset, and less productive. Try to be accommodating.

  149. Introverts or extroverts? by Spazmania · · Score: 1

    You need to analyze whether your developers are naturally inclined towards introversion or extroversion. Personality tests like the MBTI or Keirsey temperment sorter can help you here if you want to do a scientific job of it.

    Extroverts tend to work well in the "bullpen" arrangement you describe. The improved communication enhances their productivity and also improves morale.

    Introverts are destroyed by the bullpen arrangement. Productivity and morale will take a nasty hit and some of them will outright quit. You'll get the maximum productivity from introverts by placing them in individual offices with doors that close. In fact, with high-paid high-skill jobs like software development, the introvert's productivity improvement achieved from placement in a private office damn near always outpaces the cost of the office.

    --
    Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
  150. Offices, damn it by Ritchie70 · · Score: 1

    As others have said, you should ask your developers. But here's my opionions:

    If you can manage to give everyone their own office, preferably with a door, do that instead. My happiest office experience was at a small company that was slowly going out of business. When one of the VPs left, I managed to snag his office. Big office, plush (but old) carpet, giant desk, plenty of outlets, and a window. It did have two doors, so people tended to use it as a hallway, but there were so few people left in the company by then it wasn't too bad.

    If they have to share a room, I say a desk for everyone. Not a shared table. If you're using actual discrete desks, put up some "Les Nessman walls" and let the individual developers position stuff how they want in their "office." Some will want to face the center, some will want to face the wall.

    If you insist on using a cube/furniture system, our layout is tolerable. We each have a u-shaped desk with the open end of the u facing an aisle. Between the desks is a cube wall just high enough that I have to raise up out of my chair about a foot to see the next guy. That height cube wall make it possible to hear the neighbors but ignore them if you want.

    In my case, I have the support team lead as my neighbor to the left, so if one of his guys shows up I kind of open one ear and offer information if they sound like they need it. But I handle interruption pretty well.

    --
    The preferred solution is to not have a problem.
  151. best or most productive? by Lazy+Jones · · Score: 1

    From a developer viewpoint I'd say "best" would be beach chairs in a line facing the beach with umbrellas providing some shadow and cool drinks. ;-)
    If productivity is the primary concern, make sure that each developer has his own private area (meaning separate desk with plenty of space (including drawers etc.) and noone staring at his back, or if you must, cubicle) but also that it is not too difficult to communicate face-to-face with other developers on the same project (getting up and walking 5-6m is fine, having to open 2 doors to get to someone working with you usually isn't). Connected tables/star- or U-shaped arrangements are bad in my opinion, they encourage chatter, "thinking aloud" and mindless "hey look at that funny pic" kind of discussions. The worst ever place I've worked in was a tiny room with nearly a dozen people working on a continuous table space lining the walls, the software development equivalent of a call center....

    For 4 developers (probably in 1 room?), I'd recommend just buying 4 spacious, rectangular or L-shaped tables that are placed at some distance of each other and a few plants to put around/in between. A small round table for discussions/meetings/quick food isn't a bad idea.

    --
    "I love my job, but I hate talking to people like you" (Freddie Mercury)
  152. Round tables suck by aj50 · · Score: 1

    I realise that this isn't the same as an office environment but at the MS X48 event (teams of four people make a game over a couple of days) we were sat with four people on a round table. We were constantly running around the table to get between stuff we were talking about together and stuff we were looking at on our own PCs. Talking to people over the top of monitors is fine but as soon as you want to point at something on your screen, a round table gets in the way.

    I suspect that while a round, clear table is probably better for brainstorming, having table arrangements where everyone sits back to back would be better for people working on computers but regularly working together on small parts. Any piece of information you need to share is then just a push and a swivel on an office chair away from anyone else.

    Anecdotally, I help run the video gaming society at my university and we found that people get up and talk to each other more when we arrange tables so that there's plenty of room between them and no-one has their back to the wall.

    --
    I wish to remain anomalous
  153. Apparently by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The best seating configuration would be cramped cubicles with old office chairs (with minimal adjustment options and worn padding in the seat), harsh fluorescent lighting overhead, and a taupe or beige color scheme.

    That seems to be the standard, as far as I've seen.

  154. Dual Setup by Ashcrow · · Score: 1

    When I'm writing code I have two modes: Planning/Collab and hardcore coding. When it comes to planning/collab having an open space is great. Easy to interact, easy to work with others and everyone is heard. For hardcore coding it's time to be segmented away from others. Half walls don't work. Wearing earphones isn't enough. To be as productive as possible I need to concentrate using the ideas and plans from the planning/collab time to write my code.

    It's as simple as that. Either have a small team room and individual workspaces free of outside distraction or get a transforming workspace of some kind. No need to listen to the seating experts spout something that 5 years ago was bad but somehow became good again (and will be bad again soon).

    I currently work at a place what 'proudly touts' open floor plan for all IT developers. The end result is people really want to work from home when coding to avoid managers interrupting, PM's being PM's, smells of lunch (or worse), people on conference calls, etc..

    Oh, and no round tables. It's a waste of space and people still are crowded.

  155. Eat it, Yoshi ! /nt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Eat it, Yoshi ! /nt

  156. Don't use a round table-- Get inside a circle! by code-dweller · · Score: 1

    You will probably want to go the other way with it... Instead of sitting around a table facing each-other, have them sitting inside a ring facing away from each-other.

    I've had teams work lots of different ways --- the ring idea has always worked best.

    Most of the time when they want quick collaboration it involves something like "take a look at this" -- either on a note pad, or more commonly on a screen. When facing a table the only way to do that is turn the screens (trouble) or walk around (inconvenient).

    With the ring concept a quick turn of the chair does the trick and they are face-to-face or co-piloting a workstation.

    Also -- when they don't want to be distracted the ear-buds go in and they're facing away from everything.

    Also (I know this isn't on most folks radar) -- sneezes an coughs go AWAY from the other devs, so it's not so easy to spread colds etc.

    Finally -- from inside the circle the walls of the circle are large and offer a lot of space for personal effects, charts, artwork, etc... It provides a good opportunity for personal expression without adding extra real-estate.

    Get in the circle -- you'll be glad you did for lots of reasons.

    _M

  157. The tally so far by presidenteloco · · Score: 2, Informative

    I counted the preferences in this whole discussion to about 3/4 of the way down to this post.
    Here's how it pans out, give or take one or two that I misinterpreted, and not counting wafflers and OTs:

    Private Office:  77 (62%)
    Cube Farm:       14 (11%)
    Open Area:       33 (27%)

    The "privacy and peace required" advocates are in the clear majority.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  158. Everybody sits in a CIRCLE by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 1

    Maybe on comfy beanbags. Put your chips and twinkies into the middle forming a community pile. Pass to the right, and no "bogarting".

    --
    "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
    Never been known to fail..."
  159. Buy the desks and let the developer place them by dhammond · · Score: 1

    It depends on what your options are, but if you have one big room and have to fit several developers in there, then what you might want to do is just buy separate desks for each developer and let them work out where they put them, at what angle, with or without cubicle walls, etc. If they really want to arrange it in a circle, they can do that. I have worked in spaces like that and it worked out very well. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is particular about the exact position of my desk -- aren't most good developers a bit anal? If you try to design it too much, you're going to get it wrong.

  160. how about.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about asking them, instead of asking slashdot and taking it's rule to your dictatorship.

    That was my first reaction and my educated guess is that your developpers will react in the same way.

  161. 3 Office Models by peterofoz · · Score: 1

    Office Models Here are 3 basic office models I've worked in. They're all good for the right reasons.

    1. For a small Team on the same project/task A group office would enhance collaboration for hasty/frantic development work ala Agile programming where designs are dynamic and evolving. This should be is a relatively short term arrangement and when the group reforms, be prepared to also rearrange the team office. Headphones and music of choice helps block out unwanted conversation during periods of concentration, though you could listen in on meetings and decisions while working.

    2. For mature development/maintenance For longer term development/maintenance individual offices/spaces probably work better because things should be rolling along and folks are working within a framework. These arrangements typically will also set up a war-room to tackle tough problems until they are resolved.

    3. For field consultants / professional services If you want your staff to spend more time working in the field on billable time rather than the office, set up a hot desk/hotel or just benches with power above the bench for easy laptop access. For network, of course, you'd have Wi-Fi. No one has a permanent space, though you would provide lockers for field staff to store some personal effects like a reusable coffee mug.

    Ask Your Staff If you want a successful office design, ask your staff and discuss the options with their strengths and weaknesses.

    Who gets the window office? In my opinion: No One. Not even the boss - gotta lead by example: right? Make those the meeting rooms/spaces and aisle. If you have cubicles, keep cubicle walls low - about 4 ft - but add a glass top to 6 ft to keep down noise. For offices, include a window in the door and side for natural light. Add natural light ducts to the roof.

    Don't be a square Include some visual interest in the office design buy incorporating a rounded wall or two and fun colors/design (employee lounge/creative meeting space) and maybe a diagonal aisle. It takes up a little more space, but keeps of the office from being just a square world.

    Sound Abatement Ensure you break up hard surfaces in a large room with soft art (large fabric covered panels) or hanging banners to attenuate sound. There's nothing worse than being on a conference call and sounding like you work in a cave. Actually, this is unfair to caves because they often have very good sound absorption.

    Cost A good office design does not have to cost a fortune. I've seen very nice office design that used simple galvanized steel and fiberglass corrugated roofing, and varnished plywood sheets as basic building materials.

    Learning By Example

    Tech Top 10 Workspaces (2008) http://slashdot.org/story/08/05/07/1159255/Techs-Top-10-Workspaces

  162. Cube farms suck by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some developers work fine in a chaotic and noisy environment. Others - like me - prefer peace and quiet and find it almost impossible to concentrate in an environment where the person next to you is discussing work or last night's game, or arguing with their ex about who gets the kids this weekend.

    I've always thought it was idiotic to suggest that if the noise bothers you to simply get a set of noise-cancelling headphones to block it. Firstly because it's the company saying "we can only give you a second-rate work environment - if you want a first-rate one you can pay to upgrade it yourself". Secondly, because wearing them completely cuts you off from the human contact you were supposed to get by working in a collaborative environment in the first place.

    My most productive years have been spent working from home, using IM or email to collaborate on a day-to-day basis, with weekly or fortnightly physical meetings to nut out the hard stuff.

  163. Do both by bgspence · · Score: 1

    Have individual private work spaces and a common collaboration area to bring laptops and toss out questions and ideas while you code. Use the rest of the space for a pool table and air hockey room.

    1. Re:Do both by bgspence · · Score: 1

      But, if you are too tight for space consider bunk desks.

  164. Spherical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's really best if the desk is spherical, or at least has very short legs. Developers are most stimulated by awkward postures and noise, with frequent and insistent distractions. Loud bells, the occasional mime, dancing girls, and even wild animals may help, especially monkeys and snakes, as long as the snakes are introduced in sufficient numbers, and the monkeys are agitated. Managers should be strongly encouraged to use the trapeze, and those from HR must be required to wear very bright colors and sing, so that their approach may be detected. It's very helpful if design specifications are frequently changed without notice to keep everyone on their toes, and the mood should be one of anger and suspicion. Strong smells should be frequently introduced, such as burning insulation, spoiled perfume, and a variety of molds and pollen. With luck, word of your sophistication will spread among the engineers in the community, leading to the chance to import a stream of personnel from countries whose opportunities in the H1-B program have previously been quite limited, employees who are flexible, trainable, and need your help moving millions of dollars of revolutionary funds to a bank account in America, after a series of small payments to establish, you know, trust.

  165. Durr by symbolset · · Score: 1

    I'm wondering if you could avoid power naps in a Barcalounger with six degrees of freedom. I thought that was implied.

    The benefits of inebriation? What did you think I meant by "refreshments"? Milk?

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  166. Mistaken assumptions by symbolset · · Score: 1

    I'm guessing you're assuming more than one developer per indoor pool. I can see where a mistaken drive for economy might drive you to those dire straits, but I would endeavor to dissuade you from that false economy. Each developer is more than adequately connected to his peers via telepresence. He doesn't need physical proximity and in fact that is a deterrent to productivity. Excessive contact with humans in an uncontrolled setting can set a good programmer back six months. It's best if each has his own pool.

    Programmers as a rule have control issues. If you try to defeat this, you'll lose 90% of why you hired them. Control is an important aspect of security. Programmers who are confident they have control of their personal situation write more secure code than programmers in doubt. It's best if you put them by the pool with iron-clad contracts that alleviate any issues in this regard they might have, so they can focus on producing for you the best possible product.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
    1. Re:Mistaken assumptions by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Programmers who are confident they have control of their personal situation write more secure code than programmers in doubt.

      Hmmm, Interesting hypothesis.

      How would you test it?

      (I'd look at the number/ frequency / severity of bugs reported (big project!) and try to correlate that with "work at home" / "work in near-home rent-an-office" / "work in company site with personal office" / "work in cubicle rats maze". But I've only got a very small sample of programmers to observe and correlate against - none of who write anything that would be relevant for remote access even if it were possible.)

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  167. Get their input! by s.petry · · Score: 1

    What do the developers think is best? I have worked in an open collaborative space, and found it exceptional. After a recent management change, they moved us all to cubicles with our noses in the corner. I know that some people would have preferred more privacy (they love their pr0n), but most of us wanted the open space. Management made their decision without our input, and most of us are pretty resentful.

    What you believe, or management believes, may not always be what is bet for the team. Let your team voice what is best for them.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  168. The coolest letter of the alphabet by slacker22 · · Score: 1
  169. Offices by twoHats · · Score: 1

    Having been out of the soulless corporate workplace for a while, I feel I can speak about this rationally. 1. Developers should have offices with doors on them, or at the very least a quiet place to work. 2. Any project of any size requires meetings among developers. Use the table for that. I am a software developer since 1966.

  170. How about some peace and quiet. by alexschmidt · · Score: 1

    Sadly, there is this notion that people need to shove into a pile and work in some kind wide open area. I'd like someone to try this: Give 1/2 your people a real office with a door they can shut and control over distractions like turning the damn phone off. Put the other 1/2 in the typical dog-kennel style arrangement where you can hear every goddamn noise and distraction. Do this for 6 months and see who is more productive. I'll bet you can guess the answer. I just can't effing stand the wide open office cube farm. Just how much collaboration do you need?? Are the specs so lousy that you have to discuss every case or sequence? I'll bet there are a lot of people who work late or come in on weekends just to get a couple quiet hours to get some work done. If those people had some peace and quiet they wouldn't have to be at work 90 hours a week to do 25 hours of productive labor.

  171. Opt for low interruption rates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the '80s IBM studied the question of what environmental factors made programmers more efficient. Result: The primary correlation with output (and low bug count) was uninterrupted time duration -- long blocks of uninterrupted time produced better code on average from a (large-ish) sample of programmers than did constant interruption and reconstruction of mental state.

    Conveniently, this has been re-examined recently. http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/it-nielsen4/?dwzone=ibm

    So, assuiming your job is to actually *help* the company, I'd recommend the arrangement that minimizes interruptions.

  172. I can't believe this by valduboisvert · · Score: 1

    In this century most of developers can work very well at home. They are means to check on them for supervision purposes and the company can save a LOT of money on commercial leasing space, electricity and so on. Net meetings are more desirable than just shooting questions randomly at each other. They simply force you to be well organized and promote good time management habits.

  173. Work areas by Dashiva+Dan · · Score: 1

    Asking your developers is good, but not definitive. You may end up with different developers at some point in the future (people retiring, new hires, etc.) so asking here is a great place. I work with 3 other developers. I love the silence, one loves his music, one works offsite (from another state) etc. I think you'd be best to give each developer their own space (office) so that they can personalise it to how they best work without bothering any other developer. For interaction, face to face is rarely necessary, and should it be, I'm sure one dev can walk to another's office, or similar. For collaboration, I'm pretty sure you'll a) have a phone system that has speakerphone (or skype, or whatever) for voice, and then you just need one of the many software solutions for screen sharing. Then both devs can talk, and see/control the same 'screen', all without having to give up their personal space/environment (or be bothered by that dev who farts all day long, or checks out your arse, or whatever else annoys you). Email/instant messenger w/logging is fantastic for keeping a communication log so you can check back over previous items, etc, and should be used whenever possible, but I agree that that is not always ideal. Plants are good - they improve the wellbeing of people, and make the office less oppressive. With all that said, having regular breaks - ideally 4 15 minute breaks during the day, where the devs can take a smoke break/eat something/whatever, but get some face-to-face should they desire it, and perhaps talk work, perhaps not, will keep the team connected and productive.

    --
    "lt;dr" is the correct response to most of my posts.
  174. All I know is... by twebb72 · · Score: 1

    If I have to move my desk one more time I'm going to set fire to the building.

  175. programmers without passion following specs by drew_eckhardt · · Score: 1

    And for your information, a workhorse can't read specs, and a programmer without passion for his job will not follow them.

    Programmers without passion often follow the specs to keep their jobs but don't exert effort to correct incorrect specs.

  176. You are doing it wrong!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You know, as a developer, development manager and now a business owner I have to chime in here. You are about as wrong as you can get, but your attitude makes you right in your circumstances.

    If you seek that environment then so be it. I ran a dev shop where the powers that be (IT Director) wanted things like that. We developed a 2 million line codebase in about 3 years with a dozen developers, and a half dozen business analysts / QA staff. It was hardcore SDLC waterfall style.

    I volunteered for a layoff, happy as a clam to get it and a few years later wrote a competing platform myself in about 120k lines in 8 months that had twice the functionality.

    The bottom line
    If you have a dev shop where you need assembly line coders then your doing it wrong (horribly wrong), but please continue as it gives me and others like me the competitive advantage.

    Codeguru FTW!

  177. Offended me? by symbolset · · Score: 1

    If you want to offend me you're going to have to try a lot harder than that. Think midgets, ferrets and duct tape - and square it.

    You're fine - faux offense is in this case just my artistic license.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  178. Max C3000 by symbolset · · Score: 1

    Incidentally I'm not a greedy jerk. By C3000 max config I only mean four of these (geek porn) and some PCIe sidecars with GPUs. I don't need the double-density blades that put 16 blades with 32 Westmere CPUs in one 5U blade chassis. That would be asking a lot. A nice casual infrastructure with 80Gbps of uplinks would be nice this decade, at least for me. I have modest needs.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.