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When SSD and USB 3.0 Come Together
An anonymous reader writes "USB flash drives have been a quiet revolution in computing. Their rise broke the death grip that the floppy drive had on the PC industry, and smaller capacity models have become cheap, disposable means of data transport and distribution. Yet while you can pick up a 4GB model for less than the price of a meal, large capacity drives are still prohibitively expensive. Meanwhile, solid state drives (SSDs) also utilize flash memory, but masquerade as mechanical hard drives rather than USB storage devices. Now it seems the two technologies are bashing into each other, with this article pointing to OCZ's new Enyo USB 3.0 SSD — a rather curious beast that looks like a thin external hard drive and connects via USB, but houses an SSD inside."
When Slashdot and Advertisements come together... Slashvertisements! You could have learned as much or more by reading the press release where it is revealed that "Enyo USB 3.0 Portable SSDs will begin shipping this now and will be available through OCZ's extensive worldwide channel." Thank goodness, I thought I would have to wait for the next now. Also per the pr, "the Enyo features a sleek, anodized aluminum housing" ... the choice of words implies that it's a desktop SSD in a box. It would be nice to know which one, if so.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
backing up files just keeps on getting easier, and faster.. it sure is great!
*hint hint hint*
From the summary: "Yet while you can pick up a 4GB model for less than the price of a meal, large capacity drives are still prohibitively expensive. Meanwhile, solid state drives (SSDs) also utilize flash memory, but masquerade as mechanical hard drives rather than USB storage devices. Now it seems the two technologies are bashing into each other"
SSDs, whether they are internal or external will continue to be exorbitantly priced, so you're not getting larger storage densities for cheaper.
This development is nothing new... I use a deconstructed external USD HDD container and just swap on SATA 2.5" drives as necessary; a SSD would just be another drive to toss on there. While SSDs are significantly faster than most thumb drives, the question at the end of the day is: "Do you have the disposable income for this storage strategy?"
*insert pithy sig here*
...but for big-time storage, mechanical drives are still king. As the technology stands now, it is pretty much useless for large-scale storage due to many different things, not the least of which is the cost. That being said, I'm curious if by the time SSDs reach the capacity, price point, and reliability needed for long term storage if they will still be relevant.
Here's to hoping, though...I love the idea of an SSD, but they still need some advancements before I consider one as my main system drive, much less for storage.
Living With a Nerd
There are plenty of things on the market that address this issue. You can get 64 Gb flash drives on newegg for less than $150. I remember when I bought a gigabox that was 5 gig for more than that. If you really must have the extra space, I doubt that the max 256 GB model of this SSD is worth it, just get a sata dock, or a regular external, as the speeds of SSD are going to fairly useless on a USB 2.0 system most people have today. The other point to USB flash drives is their portability, I carry about three at all times in my pocket, I don't think I'd want to carry one of these in a pocket. It's interesting, but this is just a slashvertisment.
"It's ok, I'm completely secure as long as my iron is off"
I mean obviously it's posers with more money than sense who simply must have the latest gadget just so they can show off that they're the first to have it, while being secretly disappointed and wishing that they'd waited for the next version.
But the iPad doesn't have a USB 3 port, so there's no overlap with people who might buy this and people who can use it.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
SATA 2.0 - 3 GBit
SATA 3.0 - 6 GBit
USB 2.0 'highspeed' - 480MBit (Tricky fact: USB 2.0 connection can still be 'lowspeed')
USB 'superspeed' - 4.8 GBit.
Going by what the article says, I think that the e-sata specification should have included some power providing abilities. Preferably enough to run a 2.5" HD/SSD on it's own.
I mean USB specifications are actually changing to be able to provide even MORE power. Looking at the octopus nest behind my computer, I count elimination of cables as a GOOD thing. If I could have a Monitor with 1 cable(at the cost of an even beefier power supply in my computer), power my DSL modem via PoE, I'd be happy. I love my bluetooth mouse, but am too paranoid to go with a wireless keyboard until they come out with one with more serious encryption.
I don't read AC A human right
Flash drives are flash drive. They are plugged in USB and recognized as such. SSD are using the same technology as flash drives with a SATA interface. External mechanical hard drives are using a SATA to USB adaptor to work in USB. So basically, all the technology is already existing.
They replaced the SATA interface with a USB interface (like in a normal tumb drive) or just dropped a normal SSD inside a normal SATA 2.5" external box et voila !
What's the news here ?
EULA : By reading the above message, you agree that I now own your soul.
I was with you up until "are a bit too easy to misplace". Is your only motivation the small form factor of USB sticks? You can always get a bigger form factor, or just glue some floppy-disk-shaped plastic onto it, to make it hard to lose.
I think being able to have the USB stick flush (or internal) with the computer would be moderately cool, though. I don't know if it's cool enough to try and force the industry to decide on a standard form factor :P
It'll make a big difference when the USB 3.0 systems arrive.
Minor point, but wouldn't "shitty balls" go better with USB? Trolls these days.. no class.
which is totally what she said
What about Light Peak? Why upgrade to a minor speed bump when the next available speed bump is hundreds of times faster?
Light Peak has enough bandwidth to replace USB 2.0, FireWire 800, DVI/HDMI, Ethernet 1000... all at once, on the first revision no less. Will USB 3.0 ever take off?
Just because its not enough for a major bank or for you to store your porn collection on doesn't mean it isn't enough for 99% of small businesses.
You can fit various OSes onto a floppy disk, that doesn't mean that floppies have a large capacity. It's all relative. These days I can barely fit a quarter of my music collection into 16GB, but for me 16GB is the sweet cost/size point for USB devices at the moment.
which is totally what she said
4 GB is not a large capacity? I can install Ubuntu in 4 GB. A DVD holds just over 4 GB. I keep a Win7 and an Ubuntu install on my 4 GB stick.
So someone is shipping an SSD with a USB 3 interface. If it's as big as my 4 GB stick, then you'll interest me.
Get off of my lawn.
You keep both on a 4GB stick? Special stick when windows 7 needs between 10-16GB (depending on what version and what options).
and by USB devices I meant USB flash drives, I do have a 2.5" 500GB USB HDD for proper media storage and occasional backups.
which is totally what she said
Can we please stop "disposing" of things, especially complex, hard-to-recycle things like electronic devices?
>> I think being able to have the USB stick flush (or internal) with the computer would be moderately cool, though. I don't know if it's cool enough to try and force the industry to decide on a standard form factor :P
This has been standardized, it's called SD. Keep the card attached to your computer normally. You can copy working copies of important stuff that you are doing as a delta from your last backup and in case you lose your undo history by quitting vi.
-- I was raised on the command line, bitch
Forget USB4, SATA and all the others, Light Peak has the capacity to replace everything.
Didn't I read something about SSD including a USB (electrical) interface anyway? Or maybe it was one of the new SATA standards.
And maybe that's it -- maybe once Windows can boot from USB it makes it hard for MS to keep tying an install to a "PC" since Windows installed to USB is kind of independent of the PC.
You can move a disk from PC to PC with sleds, but that won't make Windows independent of the PC because of its driver model. You'll need precisely the same hardware installed in the same slots in both PCs to avoid confusing Windows. Some motherboards have disk emulation for USB. I think it's a BIOS function. You can run Windows on USB on them. Netbooks are the most typical examples since they don't come with optical drives and users may or may not have them.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817998038 Looks like what you are looking for. hotswap (if your motherboard and OS support that) flush with the case. As for a write protection switch, that should be easyish, to do in linux if you wanted. Set one bay to RO, the other to RW, using UDev rules and /etc/fstab. Then choose your bay and you either get write protection or not.
All of the above was encrypted with a Quad ROT-13 method. Unauthorized decryption is in violation of the DMCA.
Nobody wants to talk about the fact that these things are actually considerably more expensive than their already-high retail price. You MUST have the storage capacity to keep them fully backed up at all times. When a standard-issue hard drive crashes, it usually gives you some hint that there's a problem. Maybe it starts running hot, maybe it starts making noise, maybe you start getting write errors or the partition goes missing (but the data is still salvagable). In 20 years and more HDD's than I can count, I've never once had one just plain quit. I've had that unpleasant experience twice with jump drives. Fine and dandy one minute, dead as a carp the next time I plugged it in and hour later. Neither had been anywhere, done anything...just sat there on the desk waiting for a few minutes (to be accurate, in one case overnight). Attempts to recover data via software intended to address the problem were unsuccessful.
Until this problem is addressed effectively, I'm going to be very careful about investing in large SSD's.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
I guess it means the setup of Win7(2.8GB) and ubuntu(700MB)
That was true on versions of Windows prior to Vista. Prior to Vista the hardware for the PC was detected at install time and the appropriate HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) was installed. That meant that if you attempted to move the drive to a system that needed a different HAL you got an instant BSOD. In Vista (and Windows 7 as well) Windows determines which HAL to use during boot time so you can easily move a Windows install from one machine to another even if they have very different hardware. If the boot drive is on a storage controller or RAID cards that is not supported by the driver's built-in to Vista or Windows 7 you will need to make sure the appropriate drivers are installed before moving the drive but that is fairly easy to do for most controllers.
Where I used to have to maintain OS images for every hardware configuration I manage, I now only have 2 images. One for 32-bit Windows 7 (for older hardware that can't support 64-bit) and one for 64-bit Windows 7.
Also both Vista and Windows 7 support booting via USB you just have to configure it properly. Windows 7 can even boot from a VHD file (basically a disk image) which can be on any drive that is accessible at boot time.
Such an awkward phrase... if only we had a single word for it.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
What counts as "configure it properly"?
Will it actually install to USB, or do you have to get cute and clone a SATA disk to a USB disk?
And I thought the limitation, also brought to Win7, was related to how Windows handled the USB driver load and losing the handle on its boot volume in the process.
There are other curious beasts out there, such as Kanguru's e-Flash which has both eSATA and USB connectors. It's steepish at $105+ for 32GB (vs $60 or so for 32GB USB), but not absurd. 64GB also available.
I'm sure it's a niche product that will go away after USB3 becomes widespread, but for now it's a nice mix of both worlds.
fencepost
just a little off
If you get "S" on your balls doing that, then you're doing it wrong.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
That meant that if you attempted to move the drive to a system that needed a different HAL you got an instant BSOD.
You could also move the drive to a system that simply needed a different storage driver, and you'd also get an instant BSOD, with BOOT_DRIVE_INACCESSIBLE, IIRC.
If the boot drive is on a storage controller or RAID cards that is not supported by the driver's built-in to Vista or Windows 7 you will need to make sure the appropriate drivers are installed before moving the drive but that is fairly easy to do for most controllers.
Under Windows 9x, however, you could move the drive to a machine which was totally different, and the system used BIOS calls and fallback drivers, then detected the hardware in the system, and finally rebooted under the 32 bit drivers. Under Linux, of course, as long as your kernel or initrd has appropriate storage drivers, autoconfiguration is typical.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
seriously, I wouldn't mind one like that because my system wont boot from external usb drive, but will boot from external floppy :(
Only 'flamers' flame!
Does slashdot hate my posts?
Will light peak only work with on board video?
also E-net on Light peak you will still E-net as long light runs may cost a meny times more then E-net and light peak routers and switches may be very high cost.
And since it is a USB3 SSD, that is a pretty big deal to be honest, even if the lines "this is an advertisement" were present as well.
Why is it a big deal? I mean, did anyone not see this coming? We have the USB3 standard coming out (well, it's already out, but a lot of people still don't have the hardware for it) - was the application of USB3 to flash storage somehow not obvious? It was bound to happen sooner or later.
Bow-ties are cool.
When Slashdot and Advertisements come together... Slashvertisements! You could have learned as much or more by reading the press release where it is revealed that "Enyo USB 3.0 Portable SSDs will begin shipping this now and will be available through OCZ's extensive worldwide channel." Thank goodness, I thought I would have to wait for the next now.
When will "then" be "now"?
soon...
Bow-ties are cool.
... daisy-chaining. One of the supposed advantages to both FireWire and USB was that you could daisy-chain devices. But in practice, how many devices ever actually contained an upstream port so you could use this feature? I have a FW external hard drive that had an additional port, and I can and do use that as a link in a daisy chain. But no other device I own, either USB or FireWire, supports this. You have to plug them straight into the computer or get a hub. Since my main machine is a laptop and has exactly 2 USB ports, it's sometimes an issue.
I hope Light Peak devices do a better job at this. Lack of device support for daisy-chaining isn't a huge deal, but it's at least somewhat of a pain in the ass.
and find photo's here if you'd like to know more...
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
Well, fucking someone up the ass isn't really high up on my priorities list, nor on the list of my girlfriends as far as I've known, so yeah I wouldn't know :p
which is totally what she said
I use rechargables in my mouse, it generally lasts 2-3 weeks before I have to swap.
I think the biggest problem isn't the amount of power the device draws, but more the self-discharge rate. A LiIon of the same bulk/weight would hold twice again as much power, but also wouldn't be losing 5-10% of it's charge per day.
It's the sort of application that's actually more suited towards alkalines. I had a set of those last for over two months when I was attending some training out of town.
If you can find some 'low self discharge' type NiMH cells, you might get a LOT more lifespan between charges.
I don't read AC A human right
These would come in quite handy in extreme environments. Well at least extreme in regards to motion. Very useful in say a rough terrain spy vehicle. With a device like this expensive, heavy, shock protection for a normal hard drive would not be necessary. It would come in quite handy in blackboxes, and such. In other words there is certainly a market out there beyond gadgeters. It would be a nice feature in a AI car, you could pack a lot of rules and patterns in and retrieve them in rapid succession. Oh, yeas, I see uses for this that would make it worth the high cost. You could just strap this into your lightweight self-driving EV prototype and gain a huge boost over your competitors.
DOH! There goes my secret R&D weapon!
Unfortunately, I see no where to buy one of these. Thank goodness Amazon still has one of Super Talent's 128 GB 3.0 USB RAIDDrive flashdrives! Whew!
http://www.amazon.com/Super-Talent-RAIDDrive-Flash-STU28GSRK/dp/B0037FU7AI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1273175768&sr=8-1
If water can be cheaply broken down into hydrogen and oxygen.. Why does it cost hundreds of millions of dollars to put a rocket in orbit when America is surrounded by the stuff!
www.boznz.com Simple solutions to complex problems.