Slashdot Mirror
Wii 2 Delay Is Hurting Nintendo
BanjoTed writes "Michael Pachter's ongoing spat with Nintendo regarding the Wii 2 is well documented. Pachter is sure it's coming, Nintendo says it's not. Now the analyst has gone one further by claiming that the declining sales of the Wii documented in the platform holder's recent financial statements will only get worse unless it speeds up attempts to get its successor to market. He said, 'The reason for this is clear: the software being created is just not interesting enough or compelling enough to drive Wii owners to buy more than two [games] per year, and most of those purchases are first party software. We can blame the third party publishers for making shovelware, or for misjudging the Wii market, but the simple fact is that the publishers have to develop completely separate games for the Wii because its CPU is not powerful.'"
The Wii hardware sucked in 2007, and surprise surprise, it still sucks in 2010.
...Then it probably isn't the delay-product-to-help-current-generation shtick.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
News at 11.
You make games for the systems available, not the systems you wish you had available!
and people will be buying it in the millions per week. Seriously though, the multi-touch technology offers a lot of flexibility.
Who is Michael Pachter and why is anyone supposed to care what he thinks?
Calling Michael Pachter an analyst is akin to calling your local butcher a surgeon. This so called analyst has a long history of ridiculous claims.
FYI, Current Weekly sales of the Wii are almost equal to the combined totals of the ps3 and xbox 360 and they still make money on the hardware. While sure their sales are declining somewhat it probably has more to do with market saturation than anything else. I am sure another version is coming some day but at this point I would think the still rather good sales would be seriously undermined if they released information on a replacement version.
Perhaps it's just the people I know, but nobody that bought a Wii uses it to any great degree. It was a bit of sport to see if you could pick one up when they were in demand, but teh novelty seems to wear off very quickly, both for my gamer friends, and non-gamer relatives, etc. They're fun at the occasional party, but gather dust much of the time.
I think they'll need to come out with another major innovation (not just HD output) to get many to buy into the hype again. Of course, I also think the iPad will go the same way the Wii did, but I've frequently been wrong when it comes to judging consumers.
So what if it sucks? it's cheap to produce and sells acceptably well. While Sony and Microsoft lost a fortune with their super-duper-powerful machines, Nintendo is profitable all the way. IT PRINTS MONEY!
Circumcision is child abuse.
And yet it's the best selling console of this generation. Fancy that...
Seriously, Slashdot, what is up with these horrible titles?
" IT PRINTS MONEY!"
Yes but you can't succeed over the long-term alone. The real issue is that Nintendo should have been bribing or buying out developers left and right to get real gamers games on it's console. The cost of development for games is huge for development houses and Nintendo really should have invested a lot more money once the Wii took off in other (western) developers.
Or is that too silly for even Apple and Nintendo?
Maybe not.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
You are thinking of a generation of a console as being a long-term thing. If anything the failure of sony and rise of MS in the industry has proven each generation of consoles will be judged independently of previous generations and hence nintendo is probably 100% correct in their current approach of make as much as they can for as long as they can, in a year or 2 the next generation will start and the markers will be all reset, that is the time to fix developer issues and the power of the platform, now is the time to make money.
Yes. It is more polite. The flack that Hecker faced for his rather infamous statement was not because what he was driving at was unfactual, it was because it was rude (I believe his exact words actually contained at least one expletive). Had he taken the time to choose his words much more carefully, I doubt he would have been later compelled to issue an apology even though the net meaning behind his words would have been approximately the same.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
At the moment Nintendo's problem is a mere reduction in profit.
Pachter's advice is to join the ranks of the PS3/Xbox360 but the makers of those consoles have struggled to turn any profit in the relevant sections of their company.
Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
I mean his proposed strategy for Nintendo to leave their pretty much uncontested "niche" market to compete in a market that already has been split up between two heavy-weight contestants, who are willing to ultimately lose money just to increase their market share further, is pure genius.
[/sarcasm]
Sells acceptably well? Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if sales of the Wii are declining because everyone has one. I know I would have bought one ages ago if I could figure out how to make it work with one of my computers.
Look - almost one in ten people in Japan own a Wii. One in thirty people in the Americas own one, and this is including South American countries that don't have nearly as much wealth as the United States. I would argue that everyone who wants a Wii has one at this point, and that's why sales are dropping off - not due to lack of interest so much as a lack of people to sell to.
Now Nintendo has basically two options; either drop the price even further, which will probably not do all that much because $200 is an entirely reasonable price point, or ramp up their cloning efforts and create more people to buy Wiis.
We can blame the third party publishers for making shovelware, or for misjudging the Wii market, but the simple fact is that the publishers have to develop completely separate games for the Wii because its CPU is not powerful.'"
Sure, but creating a game that runs on both the XBox 360 and the PS3 isn't a cakewalk either. The architectures between the two is ridiculously different and on top of that you are trying to max out the power on both the systems. I am pretty sure that difference in work easily compensates for translating assets to low rez and redesigning part of the concept of the game. One man's junk is another mans treasure.
Once you start despising the jerks, you become one.
I don't know if you've been paying attention for the past few years, but Nintendo has been making money hand over fist since the Wii was released. Unlike Microsoft and Sony, Nintendo doesn't use their console as a loss leader, they make a ton of cash with each sale, and make money on the games as well. This 'analyst' hasn't analyzed very well.
Qxe4
I don't think too many games are CPU-limited, even on the Wii and its relatively weak PowerPC-based CPU. I'd guess some realtime physics and AI might give it a few fits, but the GPU and the fact that it limits the Wii to non-HD resolutions would seem to the the real problem.
The Wii isn't aimed at teenage boys playing Halo, or all the great HD games. It's aimed at my kids - - 11, 8 and 5.
And they love it. And they know what Halo is, but know they can't play it on the Wii. They will have to get a different machine.
The Wii is fine for what it is.
That is completely wrong. Why don't people put RTS games on consoles? Because the control interface is completely incomatible. That's the same thing I'd say about trying to play a racing game or Halo with a Wiimote. THAT is the real reason they have to design completely different games.
Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
What's the big deal with new, new, new? Innovation, improvement, it's all good but massive improvements can be made in software alone.
Just look at the waste of cellphones and even now computers being treated so disposable even though they can last such a long time. Why?
Ahhh just kidding. I know why.
"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"
Oh, you think console money comes from selling the consoles. It doesn't, as Nintendo now sees. It comes from having games people are willing to keep buying. You can crank out an almost infinite number of new games that people spend money on, but what do you do if your games don't sell and everyone's bought a console already?
I don't know if you've thought about it (clearly you haven't) but Nintendo is screwed now. What trick will they pull out of their hat now? Sony and Microsoft have the (gimmicky, as it was in the Wii) motion control. They have the developers. They have the hardware. Where do you think that leaves Nintendo in 5 years?
But I'm sure you disagree, Nintendo has its fans apparently. I guess the only way we'll know is in 5 years time. I'll come back here to gloat when Nintendo is the Palm of 2015 looking for someone to buy them.
but the simple fact is that the publishers have to develop completely separate games for the Wii because its CPU is not powerful.
When I think of Nintendo, I think of their tier 1 titles. That's not to say there aren't any good 3rd party titles, but Zelda, Mario, Metriod... These games are a driving force which the big-N uses to drive sales. And the strategy has worked for them for the past 25 years. Now, who is Nintendo marketing for? The answer is simple:
Everyone. Let me do a little hypothetical for you:
Think of your favorite game on an Xbox 360 or Playstation 3. Got that game in your head? Now, imagine you were playing that game at Thanksgiving time in front of your whole family, including your Grandma. 9 games out of 10, I'm thinking that at best your grandma will simply not understand, or at worst be offended.
Now do the same thing with the Wii. 9 times out of 10, it's a game you and everybody you know can at least appreciate, if not be interested in.
That, and the revolutionary easy to use controls (which are now being emulated), make the Wii a killer social platform focused on games and having fun. That's why it's been a big success.
And the idea that "The CPU is too slow" is the reason for the Wii not making yet-another-year-of-record-sales... That doesn't make sense. As we all know, Super Mario Brothers (the original one for the NES) is fun despite having ugly graphics. It's not how the game looks, it's how the game _plays_.
--Pathway
Where do you think that leaves Nintendo in 5 years?
Making Hanafuda[1] cards and a new console? 3D anyone?
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo#As_a_card_company_.28since_1889.29
The Wii prints money. As does the DS.
The Wii has nearly outsold both the PS3 and Xbox360 put together, and made a profit on every unit sold (70 m Wii's, 33 m PS3's, 40 M Xbox360's).
The decline in Wii sales can be quite easily explained in by the prolonged global downturn and the fact that there are so many Wii's already in the hands of consumers. Unlike the other consoles they don't RROD or have a "Nintendo" timer so the need for existing customers to replace their Wii is minimal. Eventually a console will reach maximum saturation and at 70 million units shipped I'm not surprised, everyone and their mum has a Wii already and those bought back in 2008 are still working. Nintendo and Wii software makers are reporting that "net profit has fallen" not that they are making a loss.
Nintendo have nothing to lose here, most popular console, cheapest console and according to Patcher, who's spat against Nintendo is well documented their software sales have only declined about 6.5% (205m units per year to 192m units per year). So the Wii is still printing money for Nintendo, they don't need to harm that by revealing another console in 2012, 2013-2014 would be more likely with the battering Japan's economy took in the GFC. I'm sure Nintendo will announce something after Sony and Microsoft do and they aren't going to do anything fast with Sony making a loss on every PS3 and Microsoft barely breaking even on every 360, neither have the money to waste nor can afford off-putting consumers from their current offerings.
Point in short, Nintendo are on top of the console hill, they don't need to do anything. The entire generation of consoles will be around for a while due to the GFC killing funding for R&D, maybe Sony really will get 10 years out of the PS3 although with the way Sony has been haemorrhaging money in the GFC there may not be a PS4.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
the gamecube pretty much showed that damaging developer relations with a previous platform can hurt the next one. The N64 had very little quality 3rd party titles, and this continued on the gamecube, even though hardware wise the cube was very potent for its day and age.
If i were a software developer currently ignoring the wii, i'd have little reasons to think the new nintendo machine would be a serious turn around. It is doubtfull nintendo could make the jump from the wii to a system capable of competing eye to eye with the next xbox/ps.
And the fact that most wii owners have very low attach rates for games also hurts the prospects for the wii2. The joe-sixpack who got a wii for wii-bowling doesnt want the newest/fastest/shiniest, like all the hardcore fanboys. This means that the wii2 would have a lower uptake in the hardcore market because of a lack of serious games (which is what got me to turn my back on nintendo, they just dont care about gamers anymore), and will strugle to compete in the non-traditional gamer market, since that is pretty much saturated with wii (no pun intended).
From a hardware/marketing point of view nintendo's new machine will be very interesting, but the only reason i'll ever buy one is because my girlfriends want to play wii-fit 2 HD or whatever... (and i'll never touch it after the first week)
People, what a bunch of bastards
In five years we will have moved on to the next console. Each generation of console wars has a different winner, so I am not willing to predict who it will be. If Nintendo fails to deliver, they will die. However, they've been producing excellent games for the past few years, I see no reason to believe they won't continue to do so.
By the way, you seem to have some sort of weird emotional involvement in these consoles. They're just games, it's for fun. There is no reason to hold a five year grudge over it. You should try to get over that.
Qxe4
For nintendo it does, the wii has never been sold at a loss (well what do you expect? take gamecube hardware, do a dieshrink/clockbump and tack on some ram, sell for three times the price... profit!).
Off course the games are also an important factor, but unlike MS/Sony, each wii sold actually means money going into nintendo's pocket. a ps3 sold with only 2 games in its life might mean a nett loss for sony, but for nintendo, they are ahead from day one
People, what a bunch of bastards
The money in gaming consoles is typically in the licensing fees attached to each disc sold. The biggest problem that Nintendo faces is that there is now a great deal of either inexpensive, "oldies but goodies", or used games in the Wii market. Just look at it this way. People are still buying PS2 games like they're the hottest thing out there. Publishers are still producing PS2 games as well. The reason is, market saturation.
Head to your local GameStop, the used game section is incredibly active for PS2, yet the PS3 selection is piss poor in comparison.
Nintendo has managed to achieve tremendous market proliferation and has placed a Wii in more houses than anyone would have ever imagined. A new Wii, which costs a bunch more money may sell well to many people, but in reality, it won't achieve the same levels as Wii. Nintendo knows this. They need to focus on making the current console more attractive. A simple external storage device for downloadable games would be the next real logical step for them.
Downloadable games are really the way to go for them. They already do quite well selling old games (and a few new) through their online store, but there are no new and fancy games for the console out there. The console vendors are desperate for solutions through downloadable content since they can full control over how the game is resold after the fact. If they make the games less expensive by selling them online, they can close the "used game" hole which is hurting them.
With an external harddrive/network adapter combination device (wired network should have been standard to start), they could then run a HUGE marketing campaign to get people to start buying the games online instead of in the stores. It would increase margins across the board for everyone. Additionally, to get past the typical nervous online consumers issue (meaning people not liking using credit cards online), they could sell a package from a game at a store like GameStop with a serial number to allow them to download the game to their Wii.
The important thing they must do though is to lock the store to a user instead of a console. This way if a device breaks down, the consumer would be able to transfer their purchases to the new unit.
So, a Wii 2 would do nothing more than introduce new hardware which they would have to try and get into everyone's homes where there is still so much more to be done with the Wii before it's "old and crappy".
I know I would have bought one ages ago if I could figure out how to make it work with one of my computers.
Your wait may be over: http://wiibrew.org/wiki/List_of_homebrew_applications
Although I still wait for HD.
The games on the PS3 and 360 Sucked in 2007 and surprise surprise they still suck in 2010.
You miss the point, the hardware doesn't make a good console, in that respect they are always in 2nd place to the PC. It's the games that make the console, whilst Microsoft and Sony's best games only sold 8 and 5 million respectively Nintendo has 9 games that have outsold them with the top game (Wii Sports) selling 67 million copies. Nintendo is doing well because playing the Wii is fun, this is what Sony and Microsoft forgot when designing their powerhouses. Nintendo came with a console that is not only the weakest and cheapest console but the most fun.
Sony has ignored the fact that console players want simple, fun games. Microsoft has taken note but as always fails to deliver anything useful (Natal), the next Xbox you can expect to be Microsoft's copy of the Wii (the Xii perhaps). With the financial trouble Sony is in, all bets are off on whether there will be a PS4.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Sells acceptably well? Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if sales of the Wii are declining because everyone has one.
Interesting thought, just for comparison I did some research: it seems the PS2 has sold around twice as many as the Wii. I am not sure when the PS2 sales started slowing down, but there is definitely room for more Wii sales.
Qxe4
Interesting thought, just for comparison I did some research: it seems the PS2 has sold around twice as many as the Wii. I am not sure when the PS2 sales started slowing down, but there is definitely room for more Wii sales.
The PS2 has also been out for a lot longer than the Wii, with some super-low prices towards the end that were cheap enough to entice the late-adopters and the "I want to play $PS2ONLYTITLE - guess I'd better get one of those too" gamers.
It's also been chippable and able to take a hard drive rom loader for a lot longer than the Wii has. Hey... I wonder how much THAT has to do with the fact that Wii owners are only buying two titles a year?
I know I would have bought one ages ago if I could figure out how to make it work with one of my computers.
Google "Wii vga adapter", there are several. You'll need to have a tv at your disposal somewhere though to be able to switch the Wii to use 480p output. As for otherwise interacting with your computers, I've had tons of fun with cwiid, I'm sure similiar programs exist for Windows as well if you are so inclined.
I don't know if you've been paying attention for the past few years, but Nintendo has been making money hand over fist since the Wii was released. Unlike Microsoft and Sony, Nintendo doesn't use their console as a loss leader, they make a ton of cash with each sale, and make money on the games as well. This 'analyst' hasn't analyzed very well.
I don't know if you've been paying attention for the past few years, but Nintendo has been making money hand over fist since the Wii was released. Unlike Microsoft and Sony, Nintendo doesn't use their console as a loss leader, they make a ton of cash with each sale, and make money on the games as well. This 'analyst' hasn't analyzed very well.
I think an extremely important corollary to this strategy is that Nintendo's unwillingness to go in the hole on the hardware places additional requirements in terms of game quality to be profitable. Put another way: Microsoft loses money on every console, but invests in the Xbox 360 as a superior (debatable, but that's the strategy both MS and Sony are using this generation) platform for developers. Wii developers are challenged by the combination of the system's revolutionary (merits of Wii, Natal and Move systems aside, Nintendo did it first) control system and its significantly inferior hardware set.
Graphics don't make the game. However, a game whose graphics suffer due to inferior graphics have an obstacle to overcome. Nintendo excels at overcoming this. They have a consistent track record of pumping out brilliant title after brilliant title. They also do a better job than anyone of squeezing out every ounce of graphical performance from their hardware, but again, this is more overcoming an obstacle than anything else. Nintendo has been the most successful developer for their own hardware for every single console generation, and this is why.
This is not to impugn the ability of developers for other consoles. They know the score better than anyone regarding the videogame market. But few of them develop for the Wii, and everyone knows that 90% of Wii games are emetic minigame collections. Games that would probably do well on Xbox 360 or PS3 like The Conduit or Mad World sell disappointingly.
Remember the Nintendo 64? Or the Gamecube? Both systems for which Nintendo was the only successful developer, and they both tanked. I own a Wii and I believe that Nintendo has fully swept this generation's console war. But will they be able to produce as unique a product as the Wii for the next cycle?
It's never worth buying ANY game new, these days. In two weeks, the recycled sludge is marked down to $14.95 or less, "used." In six months, it's only available at Amazon, marked up to $718.49, a sure sign somebody somewhere else has it for $7 bucks. I haven't paid new prices since Final Fantasy XII, which was the last game I bought worth what I paid for it.
``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
Nintendo doesn't have to pull anything out of their hat, they just have to keep the ball rolling. Rather than just vying for a share in the existing gamer market they expanded the market. The wii is very family friendly and many non gamers have bought the system (such as my mother in law). The other companies haven't even seriously entered the "alternative" or "light" gamer market. Yes they have caught up in the gimmicky controller department, and are ahead in graphics and have the developers behind them to create great games, but those games are primarily targeted at the classic gamer.
I think at this point Nintendo releasing a new system would be premature. Yes they have traditionally release a new system every 5 years (nes '86, snes '91, 64 '96, GC '01, Wii '06) so if they followed that trend a new system would be out for 2011, but this system has sold better than any previous system to date. Even if sales are waning it is still selling strong compared to historical sales of game systems.
If Nintendo releases something in the next year I predict it will only be an incremental step (HD output, maybe better media support for music and videos) quite similar to DSi or DSi XL. An entirely new console is still a ways off.
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
I don't know if you've thought about it (clearly you haven't) but Nintendo is screwed now. What trick will they pull out of their hat now? Sony and Microsoft have the (gimmicky, as it was in the Wii) motion control. They have the developers. They have the hardware. Where do you think that leaves Nintendo in 5 years?
With a ton of money and the same creative guys to do something that Sony and Microsoft won't? Nintendo has long since proven they're far more than a one trick pony.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Wii sports is sold separately from the console in Japan, which did not prevent it from selling 3.7 million copies. It makes this game the 22nd in the all-time best sales list, which is still a good result.
He wasn't saying anything about Wii vs. PS2. The point of saying that more than twice as many PS2s have sold was to imply that there are indeed more people to sell Wiis to and the GP wasn't correct.
The PS2 is more than a gaming console. I know lots of people who own two. One normal and one with added functionality. I also know a lot of females who bought a singstar/PS2 bundle and that's the only game they play on it (and it is the only "computer" game they want to play).
Not counting the sngstar fanatics everyone else I know has access to a Wii.
On the other hand the problem isn't that the wii has a less powerful cpiu: The problem is that wii users expect another interface. Many games don't use the controller as it is intended. You just have to hold it sideways and pretend it is a gamepad like any other. The developers need to put more thought into the interface and maybe more games will be sold. Games that use motion sensors are in the store for IPhones. Look there get an idea. Learn to design interfaces. Look at apple,
Having a single game on radical different platforms needs you to redesign the interface. For example don't play Star Wars force unleashed on PC (or at least dont expect an experience like you got from the Jedi games based on the quake engine.). Don't know how the wii version works out, but just needing a button combination to smash the bosses is meh as is having mouse support only for turning around.
The problem is companies want effortless money. Maybe they need to learn that they need more to do than just spamming all platforms.
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is a real gamer's game? I hear that a lot, but I don't think it means anything really. What type of game are you referring to?
Qxe4
Sony and Microsoft have the (gimmicky, as it was in the Wii) motion control. They have the developers. They have the hardware. Where do you think that leaves Nintendo in 5 years?
Sony has had motion controls since before the PS3 came out. No one cared about it then. Sony is going to try a little harder this time I guess, we'll see how that works out for them again. I'm going to guess it's going to be another weak attempt to copy what nintendo is doing, and won't work out well. They may have learned their lesson with the sixaxis: if you're going to do motion controls, do them at least as well as nintendo.
I suspect though that the situation with motion control games will be the reverse of what we see for most games though. If someone is going to make a game that uses the wand-style motion controls, they're probably going to make it for the wii, with it's huge user base, and then port it to the PS3 if they can. How many people are going to make a game with the "gimmicky" controls, and then market it exclusively to the much smaller customer base? Sony hasn't exactly been locking down the exclusives for the PS3.
Natal... I don't know. Maybe that could actually steal thunder from the wii. On the other hand, maybe no one will want to do anything besides "eye toy" type gimmicky games for an attachment that not everyone with a 360 is going to have.
I'd guess the price difference will continue to work for the wii, maybe. Those "casual gamers" that everyone says nintendo is catering to aren't all going to say "screw the $200 box I bought, I'm going to buy this $600 one!" Or however much the PS3 or 360 are, I really don't know, but I gather they're still more expensive.
In 5 years that leaves nintendo with plenty of time to make and sell games to the people who have wiis, I don't know. I don't see anything though to indicate nintendo is going to fritter away all the money it's gotten with the wii. And don't forget the handheld market. Nintendo's doing pretty good there too.
And yet it's the best selling console of this generation. Fancy that...
You could argue with some truth that the Wii is the best-selling console of the last generation. The standard-definition generation.
A lot of the development work is design, basic gameplay code and assets. You don't actually spend that much programmer time dealing with the highly technical optimisation critical parts. The bulk of a typical game can be ported directly with few changes. It's difficult technical work, but only for a few skilled programmers.
Wii doesn't just have lower resolution. It has considerably lower physical RAM, slower CPU, different controller, and the 3D hardware uses a fixed pipeline rather than programmable shaders. So we need to redesign parts of the graphics engine, simplify the assets, change the game design, and shrink the levels.
It's good for the customers, as a lot of people just bought the Wii but never used it after 1 week of use.. The biggest problem is the motion-controller, it's fun on paper, but most games are just regular games with the MC badly incorporated into it. There aren't many games (you can count them on 1 hand) that actually are worth being called a real MC based game.. It is nice to have better graphix, but if the controls just suck (and wiimote control does suck for a lot of games because it's so imprecise) it doesn't make the game any better, and that's what the wii 2 would be just another wii with better graphics.. Also Natal is great on paper and for some game, but mostly it requires too much space in front of your tv, and having to move a coffeetable/chairs everytime you want to play a game isn't great fun.. yeah in the commercials people have big rooms, but most people don't have such big livingrooms..
Check out the top selling video games each week, for the last three years. Wii software tends to dominate. Having a slightly lower attach rate isn't as big a problem when you have twice as many consoles out there.
You could actually look it up, and you would see that the Wii is still doing better at this point then the PS2 was doing this many weeks after launch.
Spooooon!!!!!
Fanboys of $favorite_company have been predicting the demise of $rival_company for the last $num_years years and have new "theories" about how that downfall will come about, along with mountains of "evidence" and "careful thought" to back up their ideas. They also claim they're not wrong like they were last time.
Seriously, why is this news? A guy is wrong, so he makes more claims, and we're supposed to pay attention to these new claims why?
"I don't know if you've thought about it (clearly you haven't) but [Apple] is screwed now. What trick will they pull out of their hat now? [Google] and Microsoft have the (gimmicky, as it was in the [iPhone]) [technology]. They have the developers. They have the hardware. Where do you think that leaves [Apple] in 5 years?
But I'm sure you disagree, [Apple] has its fans apparently. I guess the only way we'll know is in 5 years time. I'll come back here to gloat when [Apple] is the Palm of 2015 looking for someone to buy them."
What's sad is the parts of that I didn't need to replace. Yet somehow, I don't think my edit is any more true than the original quote...
In fact, none of the Nintendo's consoles have been sold at loss. It makes sense since Nintendo's only market is from the video game business, and can't rely on other departments of a big company in other sectors to keep it afloat if they don't make money via purely licensing agreements with 3rd parties and software sales, like Microsoft's game divisions.
The games on the PS3 and 360 Sucked in 2007 and surprise surprise they still suck in 2010.
The Wii has both the lowest attach rate and lowest reviewed games of all three systems.
A couple years ago my roommate got one. He wanted a console for the TV to play games with his girlfriend. His reasoning for the Wii was that since he was a PC gamers, most of the Xbos 360 games were also available for the PC (and usually better looking) and Sony could go fuck themselves so Wii it was. I tried it out a bit but determined it really didn't have the kind of games I like and so didn't mess with it much. Stuck me as being highly gimmicky. I mean Wii sports seemed mildly amusing, until you realized it wasn't really watching what you did. Swing hard or weak in Wii tennis, made no difference, it was just translating the swing as a button press.
Well, same thing seemed to happen with him and his GF. They played it quite a bit at first and he bought a couple more games but it quickly got pushed off to the side. It remained hooked up to the TV, but rarely saw use. No more games were purchased for it.
Wasn't for a lack of gamers in the household, he and I purchased many a computer game in that time. Also wasn't for lack of the more "casual" gamer, as his GF played mainly flash type games. It just didn't seem to strike a chord with any of us.
Talked to a few other friends that got one and it seems to be the same story. They played with it a bit then set it aside. They haven't dumped it, they just don't use it very much, or buy games for it.
Like the summary said, it's so far behind the other consoles, not to mention PC's, that it requires a completely separate codebase. Basically, all the good Wii games are made by Nintendo itself, and it can't make them fast enough to keep Wii competitive in gamer's eyes.
Third party games need to either be completely redone for Wii, which is expensive and usually results in far inferior experience, or they need to be from few generations ago in the first place.
For now. It won't keep on selling as the other consoles keep on getting more and prettier games.
I think that Nintendo made a serious tactical error by targeting "casual" gamers. A casual gamer might shell out a few bucks for World of Goo or Popcap stuff, but paying $50+ for a game you're only casually interested in? Not going to happen, at least not more than a few times.
Nintendo may be profitable, but it cost them their reputation. There was a time they were synonymous with gaming; now they're firmly latched into the el cheapo lodge. Time will tell if it was worth it; my personal guess: no.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
The reason for this is clear: the software being created is just not interesting enough or compelling enough to drive Wii owners to buy more than two [games] per year, [...]
Counting only the real games I possess for the Wii, I'd say it exists for more than 12 years...
[...] and most of those purchases are first party software.
Interesting... What Nintendo Wii is he talking about?
Non-supporter of Online Activation and any other draconian DRM
But he's got two points worth noting:
1) People don't seem to buy many Wii games. This is a problem over all for a console. Even if you make some money on the hardware, the big money is made on the software. Nintendo should know, they invented that model with the original NES. The Wii seems to be able to move hardware pretty good, but they can't move the software. People buy it, maybe buy a couple more games, then set it aside. In the long run, that won't be good for making money. The reason the PS2 did so well was because of all the games sold for it. It still makes Sony money because of that.
2) The limited power of the Wii is something of a problem for some game titles. While you can argue that shiny graphics shouldn't be what sells a game, the fact is people like them. So companies are going to design games to look good and to use modern hardware. Well, you can design a game for the Xbox 360 and it'll work more or less the same on a mid-range PC and PS3. Their hardware is powerful enough that you don't really have to mess with your assets much, what one can handle so can the others. Not the case with the Wii. It needs less to deal with. For some publishers, that is cause to say "Forget it."
Now I'm not saying this means they should rush out and launch a "Wii 2" or something. However let's not pretend that all is awesome in Nintendo land. They managed to make a gadget that everyone wants, which is cool, and they make money on said gadget so that works. Thing is, that doesn't make you the big money, since they aren't making a ton on their consoles and it isn't building a lasting sort of foundation. They need the software sales and that doesn't seem to be happening.
I'd venture to say Nintendo's big dollars these days are coming from the DS, as not only do those sell a ton, but people buy games for them. The Wii hasn't lost them money, but I don't know that it is making them a whole lot either.
Having almost twice the number of consoles will do that to you. It makes statistics like these easy to skew. More games per console owner, that simply means that there are fewer consoles then games. Plus the Wii not being a loss leader means that this statistic is irrelevant. Even if the Attach rate is 40% lower, Nintendo are still shipping more games and don't have a deficit per console.
Not like game review sites can be paid off or need to pander to advertisers. Game review sites are made by and for angry little fanboys, not the average person (first rule of journalism is...*).
Your points do not prove anything, liars figure and all of that. The Wii is still the most phenomenally successful console Nintendo have ever produced, it's almost outsold both other consoles. Wii Play, Wii Fit and Mario Kart Wii have all sold over 20 Million copies whilst the PS3 has managed 5.7 million and Xbox360 managed 8.01 Million whilst another 3 games sold over 10 million.
Really this doesn't detract from the point that the Wii sold because it was simple, easy and fun. The first two, Xbox and PS fanboys like to drag out in front of PC gamers, now with the Wii they are disadvantages but fun is the important part and why Sony and Microsoft are miles behind Nintendo.
* The old first rule, "give the reader what they want" not the new first rule, "screw the reader in every way possible for cash".
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
I don't know if you've thought about it (clearly you haven't) but Nintendo is screwed now. What trick will they pull out of their hat now? Sony and Microsoft have the (gimmicky, as it was in the Wii) motion control. They have the developers. They have the hardware. Where do you think that leaves Nintendo in 5 years?
But I'm sure you disagree, Nintendo has its fans apparently. I guess the only way we'll know is in 5 years time. I'll come back here to gloat when Nintendo is the Palm of 2015 looking for someone to buy them.
Every 5 or so years somebody predicts Nintendo's death in 5 or so years.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
So what if it sucks? it's cheap to produce and sells acceptably well. While Sony and Microsoft lost a fortune with their super-duper-powerful machines, Nintendo is profitable all the way. IT PRINTS MONEY!
I think what Nintendo is misjudging is the fact that the control method is a novelty that wears off on many, and the reason that their first-party titles are driving all of the sales is because we are only buying them for the Wii because they are only releasing them for the Wii.
I would have bought New Super Mario Bros. on any platform; it was released for Wii, so it was the only Wii game I bought last year.
Really this doesn't detract from the point that the Wii sold because it was simple, easy and fun.
The point was that the games on the 360 and PS3 "sucked in 2007 and still suck in 2010".
By both attach rate and review score this is demonstrably not true. Attach rate specifically corrects for number of consoles sold.
* add HDMI port so that is easier to plug into TVs of today
* update wireless to do not just 802.11b, but also at least G, and perhaps even N
* make the motionplus buildt into controller
* add some more RAM
* slightly faster CPU and GPU, if it doesn't add much to the cost
I would also love to see WPA2 enterprise support on the wireless, but I realize this is considered an oddity.
This means that the wii2 would have a lower uptake in the hardcore market because of a lack of serious games (which is what got me to turn my back on nintendo, they just dont care about gamers anymore),
My guess is that you turned your back on Nintendo and stoped watching what they are also releasing on the Wii look at "Sakura Wars: So Long, My Love", Monster Hunter Tri, Sin and Punishment 2, Muramasa: The Demon Blade and Tatsunoko VS Capcom. All recently released. None of them aimed at joe-sixpack.
I have far more problems finding good games on my X-Box 360. I plan to get Red Dead Redemption but I see no other game in the piopline thats a must buy for me.
Games where the interface doesn't require you to shake around your controller for no reason other than the controller can detect shakes is one. Games that actually have some depth and fun past the "look I'm moving my arm and it's affecting what is on the screen!" are another. Go look at the Wii section in a game store sometime and see how many things are there that you'd actually enjoy playing past the novelty factor. "Party" games can be fun on the Wii, but mostly because you're playing with other people rather than because they're actually any fun as games - they'd be very dull against the CPU.
The games I've enjoyed most on the Wii are Zelda, Need For Speed Carbon, Super Mario Paper and Tetris Party.. all games which have no real need for motion controls.
which is totally what she said
Eh? My PS3 outputs video at 1080p just fine, last I checked; it, the Wii and the Xbox360 were the same generation consoles.
For optimal comment enjoyment, take red pill now.
HD output takes entirely new console..
It still has a long way to go before it surpasses the PS2's sales total.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
You also should take into account that some PS2 owners probably got a second PS2 either because drive in their first one broke (this happened to our PS1 and is happening to our PS2) or because they wanted the slim version. They're cheap enough that it's not that big a deal to get another when the first dies. So that could account for some inflation of the numbers. If the Wii is more reliable then you can't compare the two sets of figures directly.
which is totally what she said
I don't know if you've thought about it (clearly you haven't) but Nintendo is screwed now. What trick will they pull out of their hat now? Sony and Microsoft have the (gimmicky, as it was in the Wii) motion control. They have the developers. They have the hardware. Where do you think that leaves Nintendo in 5 years?
But I'm sure you disagree, Nintendo has its fans apparently. I guess the only way we'll know is in 5 years time. I'll come back here to gloat when Nintendo is the Palm of 2015 looking for someone to buy them.
Sure Sony and Microsoft have motion control add-ons. The only thing this will do is fragment their already small userbase. Game development studio's are shrinking or go bankrupt in this economy. The last thing developers wil do is release a motion control game that can only be played (bought!) by 1/3 of the X-Box 360 owners. So they will rush their game projects, tack on a motion control and release it to get some money in order to survive in these harsh economic times. The end result will be motion control shovelware that leaves gamers wondering the motion control added value.
In 5 years time Sony and Microsoft will have made little or no profit from their current consoles. No one wll be in a position to buy Nintendo that has in the Wii and DS lines the most profitable consoles in years. My gues is that there will be no next gen consoles until a always online console with tight DRM is supportable. X-Box live has the best potential to grow in such a service. Expect the X-Box 360 to become a gateway to that online only service. Newer X-Boxes will grow into a set-top box with maybe a few added features but largely X-Box 360 compatible.
No, Sony knows it's market and it's biggest fans. While Nintendo IS selling plenty of Wii's to grandparents and soccer moms, Sony knows that not ALL console players want to do Yoga or play Wii Sports and buy no other games.
Sony's all about the "little bit of this, little bit of that." these days, kind of like how they were during the PS2 days. During the early PS3 days they were a little too focused on the kind of testosteroney young male demographic that likes Halo and Madden, but things are a touch better now. More RPG's would do the PS3 some good since the PS2's biggest fans these days are RPG gamers who haven't needed to buy PS3's since there are still new RPG and RPG-ish games coming out for the PS2.
True, but they're all buying the exact same few first party games, and ignoring the third party games which means it's the N64 and Gamecube all over again, so in 5 years you'll see a fuckton of Wii's and a fuckton of Wii Play/Fit's on pawn shop/used game store shelves but not much else. Not exactly encouraging to Third parties.
Nintendo has Shigeru Miyamoto... Everything he touches is guaranteed money. I'm not a fanboy, I'm just stating the facts: The man is extremely competent and reliable at what he does. Sony and Microsoft, on the other hand, have huge losses and hardware defects - which, believe it or not, are much worse for your reputation than the lack of good graphics, as good graphics do not really make a good game, but you can't play if your GPU has melted your console - and the inability to innovate, having resorted to copying what Nintendo already had. Nintendo has the DS, a champion of sales. Nintendo DIDN'T have the third party developers to begin with (in this generation), and many of them regretted it when they saw which side the wind was blowing.
It seems to me that many who call themselves "gamers" overestimate their importance. It's people who matter, salary-earning individuals, and most people are "casual" gamers. Why should NIntendo care about you? They're making money. They're successful. They're happy. They're a business, not a charity for FPS and RPG lovers.
This story sheds a little light on Wii2.
Other than Red Dead Redemption, you really should get Alan Wake, which looks to be all kinds of awesome.
(Yes, I've preordered. We get it may 14th in Europe)
But there's also Crackdown 2, Fallout: New Vegas (although I prefer my PC for FPS), Alpha Protocol, Split/Second, Prince Of Persia: The Forgotten Sands, Lost Planet 2, Fable 3 and others. There are even a few exclusives in there as well.
Eat the rich.
So what? Windows is the best selling operating system of this decade and it still sucks. You can't judge how good a product is by how many suckers get fooled by its marketing. Everyone I know who purchased a Wii have their consoles standing idly while those who bought xboxes or ps3s continue to enjoying games on their platforms.
Football Odds
Where is this attach rate myth coming from, last time I saw the PS3 and Wii attach rate were within 0.1 points of each other.
Puzzle Daze is now my job
Where will Microsoft or Sony be in five years? They both already hit the point of greatly diminishing returns for system power, and they're playing their last cards right now with their motion controls. What can they add next? Not much. Nintendo, however, has at least one successful new console in their future. One with HD and PS3-level graphics or above.
The 3DS is proof enough that Nintendo can be foolish to cut the legs off of a system at its peak, but twice in a row? Nintendo isn't that stupid.
Pachter is still just butthurt over the fact that gaming isn't going the way he predicted, all because, as it turns out, graphics really don't matter. He thought it did, and it cost him dear, so now he's out to do anything he can to tank the Wii, and this is only the latest in his long string of failed attempts to do so.
There's more money to be made selling recipe applications and brain training toys than in selling games to hardcore gamers it would seem.
"Did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage?"
Last I heard Nintendo hadn't actually announced a Wii 2 yet. How can something that hasn't been announced be delayed? Wouldn't that be somewhat similar to saying that flying cars are delayed?
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
dont know really, i dont have any hard numbers.
I can however imagine that your regular mom&pop with a wii for wii sports / wii fit will buy less games then the x360 totting halo fanboy which has to play the newest College football game as soon as it comes out..
doesnt make for real evidence though, i agree on that
People, what a bunch of bastards
Okay, wasting my mod points...
I would argue that everyone who wants a Wii has one at this point, and that's why sales are dropping off - not due to lack of interest so much as a lack of people to sell to.
Read your statement again: everyone who wants a Wii. With more interest there would be more people wanting to buy a Wii. You only run out of people once there's nobody left to convince. Nintendo's whole goal this generation was to find the reasons people are disinterested and fix them. That's what this whole expanded audience push is about, making the Wii interesting to people who weren't interested in what gaming offered before.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Seriously? Some console economics 101 was worth three mod points to shout down? Bravo.
That's because the first party games are leagues better than the trash the third parties casually shit out. Most of the games released by third parties are shovelware that was created with the customer analysis of "people are stupid and will buy anything with party in the name" (if they strike gold it's because they accidentally made the game appeal to other people too). The few games that are actually aimed at people who exist usually are aimed at people who exist only in small numbers (artsy niche games) or make a half-hearted attempt at competing with a huge pile of highly polished games that any semi-savvy customer will buy first (most of the "core" games). It feels like the entire industry has pegged Wii owners as retards who will buy anything and then gets all surprised when the "retards" DON'T buy anything.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Like the summary said, it's so far behind the other consoles, not to mention PC's, that it requires a completely separate codebase.
That's not stopping game development on the DS and PSP.
I think that Nintendo made a serious tactical error by targeting "casual" gamers. A casual gamer might shell out a few bucks for World of Goo or Popcap stuff, but paying $50+ for a game you're only casually interested in? Not going to happen, at least not more than a few times.
The trick is to make the casual gamer seriously interested which is how Nintendo's games manage to sell more than ten million copies regularly despite costing 50$ or more (Wii Fit!). The casual label is arbitrary, it doesn't mean these people only show a casual interest in any game, in fact they tend to bite into a game and never let loose. See a "casual" gamer play his favourite game (be it Tetris or Bejeweled) and you'll often see crazy amounts of skill because he plays it for many months again and again.
Nintendo may be profitable, but it cost them their reputation. There was a time they were synonymous with gaming; now they're firmly latched into the el cheapo lodge.
They are again synonymous with gaming because they brought gaming to millions who've never gamed before. After the SNES it was Sony that was synonymous with gaming (seriously, in that time the generic term for a console was "Playstation", not "Nintendo"). Nintendo lost its reputation over a decade ago.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Yeah, guess we are atypical, 2 Wiis and over 50 games I estimate (2 medium sized boxes full of it).
The Nintendo Wii is a game console that clearly not meant to have the most brilliant graphics.
It's got an interesting user input system, and sorry guys, mostly 1st party games that have often great game play (seldom only good, the only
uninteresting games that come to mind are 3rd party games that are cheaply produced).
The Wii as such is completely different to the PS3/Xbox360:
* worse graphic support
* worse CPU
* better and especially totally different controllers.
So just porting naivly a PS3 game (btw, the PS3 has similar problems with less benefits to customer with it's Cell CPU that needs very special programming, architecture wise) to the
Wii will give you the worst of all:
* bad graphics (the Wii never claimed to be able to compat)
* badly mismatched controller usage, resulting usually in bad game play.
That results in practice in perhaps a dozen games that gets played and replayed (Resident Evil 4, a number of shooters from the Resident Evil line, House of Dead, Animal Crossing, and some Mario games), and many more games (usually unloved ports from "classical" consoles).
Hint, we've got still a PS2 and a similar sized games collection, but the PS2 never got the level of usage that the Wii.
Graphics are not all in games, gameplay is way more relevant. (If graphics were so important all the 8 bit systems would have flopped with their less than 320x200 resolution and visible pixels. Obviously they have not flopped back then.)
Yes. If Wii's really do have a low attach rate then it's because the device has wider appeal and is dragging people into the market that wouldn't otherwise be there.
The Wii isn't just fanboys.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Actually right now PS3s retail for about $300 with a 120gig hdd, Xbox 360s for $200 in bundle with no hdd, and a 256meg memory card. The Wii is about $200 and for reference includes 512 megs of internal flash memory.
Except, in this case, Nintendo DOESNT have the developers. They made this system that everyone in the world bought do to it being new, simple, and marketed brilliantly. Yet, Nintendo is still the only developer that's really putting out quality software for the console. The part where Nintendo failed was providing leadership and a braintrust to developers to help them figure out good ways to implement the technology and how to get around all the limitations of the system. I have my Wii and don't regret the purchase because Nintendo is one of my favorite game developers. I bought my 360 and PS3 for third party games (although I certainly do enjoy some of Sony's first party offerings). Nintendo's past three consoles (N64, GameCube, Wii) would have all been massive failures without Nintendo's first party games. One might argue that there never would have been a 360 without Halo, but the situation is much different with Sony and MS.
Wise men say, "Forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."
Nintendo once had Square-Enix in its pocket. The whole thing. Enix, Inc. was producing Dragon Quest for NES and SNES; Squaresoft was producing Final Fantasy and Chrono Trigger for NES and SNES. At some point, both ditched; the Playstation 2 was bought by all my friends because they wanted Final Fantasy or racing games, while the Nintendo 64 was purchased by Mortal Kombat fans.
I said back then that Nintendo needs a strong RPG market. There is an entire class of gamers that play RPGs, we like the system or the story. Final Fantasy games have amazing graphics-- and I don't mean shiny infinite polygon shit, I mean when the characters walk and talk they're ALIVE-- coupled with innovative game play in the RPG scope (ATB, CTB, junctioning, materia, artifact system, gambit system, they always do something different), rich music, and a deep and engaging storyline. The games are immersive; they tell a story, and they do so in a manner that brings you into the game rather than leading you to point out that the graphics are horrible or the sound is crappy.
And that's what Nintendo needs. It needs Namco, Square-Enix, Camelot (second party-- Golden Sun), everyone. It needs to pick up a significant portion of a single, irreplaceable class of games. To me, that class is the RPG market, because you really can't make a 120 hour movie (cue Xenosaga jokes). Fighting games, puzzle games, racing games... they're interchangeable. RPGs are not fungible, in the same way Lord Foul's Bane and Ringworld are not fungible; Tekken vs Mortal Kombat is rather like comparing Pappa John's vs Dominos, and while you might have a preference, it doesn't really matter.
Support my political activism on Patreon.
I only own a Wii, but it has several shortcomings. Some are forgivable, some are understandable, but one is not.
Ram. It has 92MB of RAM - total. This is a hugely unnecessary burden on developers.
That's the biggest complaint I have heard from people who actually make games on the thing.
After that, I would say, their online strategy needs the most work. Followed closely by needing to integrate "motion plus" into their controllers.
One last thing: Sometimes I wonder; "Is that someone's signature? Or do they type that at the end of each post?"
a console that will function out of the box as a serious media center.
Here is Oz every man and his dog knows about 'divx movies'.
You come out with a box that plays games AND every divx movie you throw at it for 300 bucks, market it AS SUCH and you have a WINNER. I guess that rules out Sony and to an extent MS but what about Nintendo?
Can big content sue them for making a box that plays AVIs, x264 muxed into mkvs etc. (coz if so then a zillion chinese gadget makers laugh into the void)
PS3 doesn't count as it only plays very specific format/codec container combinations.
Playing the Wii is fun for fifteen or twenty minutes here and there as you fiddle with Warioware or another of the great first party games, but beyond those distractions there is very very little meat for those of us looking for a FPS, RPG, or really anything beyond bowling. I can only assume you're just another dude on the outside looking in.
I'll grant you that most of the games I enjoy have no need for motion control. Super Smash Brothers Brawl, Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, Super Mario Galaxy, New Super Mario Brothers Wii. The few that do use it well (the latest Tiger Woods PGA Tour, and even Wii Sports Resort is enjoyable) use it quite well. The Motion Plus adapter makes that part much better.
Frankly, I enjoy the game play on the Wii. The games I like are fun and some of them have compelling stories (imho) that keep me coming back. My 18yr old son has a PS3. He plays a lot of whatever the big MMO-FPS war sim game is (Call of Duty?). I grew out of my need to run around pretending to be a marine a while ago. I guess that means I'm not a "serious gamer" even though I play regularly and I've spent several thousand dollars on the Wii, games, and accessories since its inception.
The third option, bit of a long-term gig, would be to invest in space travel.
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
FUN is a very subjective thing. Yes, Nintendo used the Wii and Wii Sports to bring a much larger audience to video games. However I would say for a large amount of core gamers the Wii wore thin very quickly. In my house we have 3 people who love video games; Ages 32, 13 and 9. We have had a Wii since launch as well as a PS3 and PC. For myself, being an older core gamer, I don't think preferring the PS3 is a big surprise. However even in a house with all of the 1st party Wii titles and many of the best 3rd party, the Wii simply NEVER even gets touched by the children. We have many games for the PS3 which everyone considers to be incredibly fun and when free time comes that is what gets played. Most of the people I talk to who play games are either seriously into PS3, X360, PC or all 3 and simply have a Wii because it is cheap entertainment to play when they have family or friends over who don't normally play games. Most of the "Gamers" I talk to are of the opinion that the Wii was a gimmick put out to increase market size and make loads of money. In these goals it has obviously succeeded. However this in no way speaks to the quality of games. Most of the games are incredibly simple and lack the depth and overall quality that core gamers are looking for when they sit down at their console. 98% of those not put out by Nintendo are complete trash.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Dolphin, the Wii Emulator for PC ( http://www.dolphin-emu.com/ ) which allows for users to play games at higher resolutions (720p/1080p) . Most games look jaw droppingly amazing using the textures already available on Wii discs. I wouldn't mind the successor to the Wii having tighter controls and HD games.
Chewie does not get a medal. Come on, George. Can a Wookie get a medal?
Untrue. The Wii's attach rate for games is actually in second this generation: behind the 360, to be sure, but ahead of the PS3.
Actually, the PS2 now makes Sony money because of the hardware. There simply aren't enough new games coming out to turn Sony much if any profit at all, software-wise.
As for units sold, Nintendo is actually selling more per game, on average, than the PS2 did. A significantly higher proportion of games turn a profit, as well: some 40% for the Wii, as opposed to 30-35% for the PS2.
in the same way Lord Foul's Bane and Ringworld are not fungible
What if you made a Dyson Sphere out of white gold?
I think it's due to the age. I personally have owned two PS2s, and my second one's disk drive occasionally makes Hellhound noises. It's probably not long for this world, and I honestly haven't even used it that much. I think I killed it with all my DVD watching; I only game with it maybe 10 days out of the year.
I guess that means I'm not a "serious gamer" even though I play regularly and I've spent several thousand dollars on the Wii, games, and accessories since its inception.
Oh, you finally got the memo. If you play Wii more than any other console, you're automatically a casual gamer. There's simply no way for you to be a serious gamer since the Wii is not a real console and it has no games. At least that's what the community keeps saying...
Not talking about the games you've mentioned either, they're all pretty decent. I was referring more to the budget shovelware that nobody beyond the mental age of 5 is going to find stimulating - the majority of Wii minigame bundles out there look truly awful.
There are also games which *would* be decent if they simply opted for using buttons rather than unnecessary motions. For example one snowboarding game we have which is fun but for one thing: you're meant to swing the controller a certain way to jump, but it rarely works properly and often interprets your attempted jump as something else (can't remember what it was right now but it was really annoying). None of us could work out how to get it to work consistently despite going through the tutorial a few times so it seems like it was trained to the devs' specific style of movement or something.
which is totally what she said
Wii doesn't just have lower resolution. It has considerably lower physical RAM, slower CPU, different controller, and the 3D hardware uses a fixed pipeline rather than programmable shaders. So we need to redesign parts of the graphics engine, simplify the assets, change the game design, and shrink the levels.
So why not make a whiz bang game on the Wii and the port it to the other systems with extra eye-candy, levels, AI or whatever? It's the more popular system, so making a quality game for the Wii first and then porting make the most sense in my mind.
At night I drink myself to sleep and pretend I don't care that you're not here with me
That's because you're a nerd. You know who plays the Wii? Not nerds. And kids. Adolescent boys and young adult male nerds play their PS3/Xbox360 a bunch. Kids without anger management issues and people with lives play the Wii. And adults well past their newly acquired testosterone fueled pubescent desire to shoot things and make them blow up and high five their buddies about their impressive polygon count.
That's if you define generations by resolution, something we haven't done since SVGA became history. On the other hand the Wii is currently the only motion control generation console out, the PS3's half-assed sixaxis is just a dualshock with some crappy motion detection taped on (reminiscent of the Saturn's shoehorned 3D as a response to the Playstation) while the true motion generation inputs for the other two consoles are still not released. There are many ways to define generations but at least motion controls greatly impact the player's experience while graphics are pretty much a commodity these days.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Windows sucks in terms of core design but it dominates in terms of software support which is really what people buy it for. I don't use Windows because I love the security issues and whatnot, I use it because most of the software I use (games primarily) only works with Windows. Similarly I have an XBox 360, not because I like that failure rate but because it had games I wanted to play. I have a PS2 despite hating the hardware itself (going by hardware alone the Gamecube trashes it) but you can't argue with its software lineup. I got that iPod Touch for the App Store, not because I'm fond of Apple hardware. And yes, I have a Wii not because I enjoy the weak graphics but because it has games I want to play.
The Wii sells so many systems because the games it has appeal to the most people. I'm not the kind of person who plays Just Dance but I got other games to play on there while the people who prefer Just Dance or Wii Sports get taken by the Wii by default. People like me are fought over, all systems try to sell their games to me while those other people are ignored by everyone except Nintendo and thus Nintendo wins them by default.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Well, just like everyone you know plays more with their PS3s and 360s than with their Wiis, everyone I know does the opposite. So, who's wrong and who's right?
Reviewed by internet-dwelling hardcore gamers. Among the general populace most of the traditionally high scoring games are no good because brutally killing aliens with a chainsaw is not what people like.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
The PS2 also did what Sony wanted the PS3 to do - it rode the wave of a new movie format. Why buy a DVD player that can only play DVDs, when for only a little bit more (at the time) you could get a PS2 that would play DVDs (and DVDs were amazing compared to video tape), play PS1 games, and play PS2 games?
The Wii is only good for playing Wii games, so the potential market is smaller.
I bought the slim 90001 shortly after it appeared, I think. I actually expected to mod it and play burned games, but the memory card hacks were fixed and I didn't feel like getting a chip. Anyway, I realized it was faster and cheaper for me to buy games for $3, $5, or $10 and maybe rent from a store or buy/borrow from friends. Compared to buying DVDs and finding and downloading and burning that is.
I'm going through the entire back catalog - I have 30 games I haven't even played yet, and they are really entertaining. Composite video out to 42 inch LCD HDTV is really quite good looking, but I do see the pixels. I'd buy a Wii just for Excite Truck but I don't see other games worth playing much. I watch a roommate play through Zelda and it was pretty interesting, but they kinda lost me from the 8-bit days.
I was going to aim for a PS3, but Sony pretty much proved they will always be dicks, so every time I start up my PS2 I say my PS2 prayer which is "Dear PS2, I know you were made by Sony and therefore would like to throw you into a pit of lava, but you and I have been through some good times. If I can't get past (board/level/scene X) this time, I really am going to go all Portal on you shiny skinny chassis. You're not getting a big brother to play with, and that's your mommy's (Sony) fault. Mommy hates you, I kinda like you, let's just be good to each other. Now play my game."
The sales figures are even more incredible when you take into account the huge modding and pirate community that grew around the Wii. As easy as it was to hack, mod, and pirate games you would think that sales would be nowhere near as impressive. I guess that adds weight not only to Nintendo's success but how exaggerated the impact of pirating may be.
Yeah, because the 360 and ps3 have games with depth? Their entire catalog can be summed up basically under 3 headings. Lame FPS game that would be better if it was made for a PC, Annual Sports Game, and Newest game knocking off Devil May Cry. That's pretty much it. OH. Sorry. Also music games, but then that's really a party game that's only fun because other people are there.
... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about.
I realize that what I am about to say could also be said about the Wii, but how many of those PS2 sales were, for example, replacing a broken system, or just used so you don't have to lug your single PS2 between locations?
"I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
And the fact that most wii owners have very low attach rates for games also hurts the prospects for the wii2.
According to Nintendo's own numbers (released yesterday), this is simply not true. The worldwide software to hardware ratio is 7.68 to 1, in the US it's 8.9 to 1. Last I checked that was ahead of the PS3 and only a little bit behind the 360. One might could make an argument that a few of those are 3rd party titles, but as far as general software sales are concerned, Nintendo has no need for concern.
I would wholeheartedly agree with you if the was pre-release information or even close to launch. However there are several things you should consider:
1) The Wii has been out for 4 years this November. Four years. In that time, no reputable person has disputed this widely reported "factoid". Do you think the developers don't know how much RAM they have to work with? With all of the thousands of people who work on this, no one, has disseminated convincing proof of more RAM. Not even a press release or nasty-gram from Nintendo?
2) Wii has a healthy homebrew community. These guys aren't script kiddies. They are real hardware engineers. Do you think they might alert their fans when/if they discovered that there was really more RAM?
Anyways, the only reason I even think about this to begin with is that my friend programs game for the Wii! He was the one who told me about it, I just linked to Wikipedia as a courtesy. So, I don't need any proof beyond that.
One last thing: Sometimes I wonder; "Is that someone's signature? Or do they type that at the end of each post?"
"Yes but you can't succeed over the long-term alone."
You're referring to a gaming console, right? Something that is replaced every 5-7 years? What is "long term" for a console?
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
How about the fact that the Wii could own at sports yet there are no games that are playable...
Bowling, the game disc that came with the game is the best bowling game out there. all the others suck HORRIBLY! Golf? only recently has a decent one came out that has real control (and it needs the add on accelerometer)
Honestly, when I look at the list of Wii games I have the Nintendo titles are way more than the half ass tries that EA and the others put out. And that is a major problem.
couple that with Nintendo artificially keeping game prices inflated.. Hello, 3 year old games that are still selling for release day prices? WTF?? MarioKart Wii should be $29.00 now not $59.00, etc....
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Or do what hey did with the DS
Add a camera to it, then release one that is 2X larger.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Which is not surprising, given that it's one of the few good games I've ever played for the Wii. The rest of the games... they use the gimmicky controls and then, after five minutes of playing, you get bored. Wii Sports is actually a game, not a controller showcase.
That's not stopping game development on the DS and PSP.
PS2 also. I'm still seeing new games coming out for it.
"I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
I guess there should be an option on /. to mod down stories.
Are you trying to say that 1080p is standard def? I mean, I know it pales in comparison to computer monitors... but in TV land, 1080p is hi def.
"I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
You could also make the arugment that the XBOX360 figure is artificially deflated. I have purchased 2 XBOX360s because my first one RRoDed. Same with my buddy. We got the original replaced, but now we each have one sitting on a shelf not being used. I suspect that if the XBOX360 didn't crap out so often that the attach rate would be even higher.
Copyright 2010. All rights reserved. This comment may not be copied in any way including, but not limited to caching.
Not only is it still selling, but they have the successor almost out the door.
And some would say the last FF game worth its price was FFVI.
well, I would. Do. I say that.
... still waiting for this free-as-in-beer free beer I keep hearing about.
Sure it might be the best selling console, but good lord, what games do people play on there? I have a 13 year old girl who BEGGED that we get her a Wii and all she freakin does is play stupid free games on the computer...
If you have an unused Wii, you should check out Netflix on it.
I was skeptical that it would be any good, and got the boot dvd just because it was free + 10% discount. At 480p it's good enough... it's not distracting, and I can enjoy the movie or tv show on it. Even at 480i it was ok. With the point & click interface it's actually a pretty nice system to use for this.
"Wii owners to buy more than two [games] per year,"
Bullshit. The Wii has a lot fo fun games. I don't think this douche has kids. I've had the Wii since it came out, my son was 8, my daughter 6. As there gaming types change, there has always been Wii games. It's a great system fir the following reasons:
1) Nintendo has a lot of games for younger kids.
2) It has games I can play with my kids that our fun, but not long. So I can get hoe from work and play with my kids. My son stomped my ass for the first time last night. I'm both shocked and proud.
3) Non gamers come over, and we can play a game quickly, and easily.
4) Neighbor kids will stop by for a few minutes, and my kids can be learning modern social skills while gaming.
5) The Graphics are good. No not great. Graphics make a game pretty, not good.
Even if I was single, I would still have bought one for just the quick party games. They an awesome way to get people to warm up.
I also have a PS3, and the game focus for that system is for older kids. Well, my sone is now 12, so starting there.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Where do you think that leaves Nintendo in 5 years?
Several billion dollars richer?
The joe-sixpack who got a wii for wii-bowling doesnt want the newest/fastest/shiniest, like all the hardcore fanboys. This means that the wii2 would have a lower uptake in the hardcore market because of a lack of serious games (which is what got me to turn my back on nintendo, they just dont care about gamers anymore), and will strugle to compete in the non-traditional gamer market, since that is pretty much saturated with wii (no pun intended).
I work at a video game retailer and can tell you the Wii is always the fastest selling console, Yes it is true we sell a few more Xbox 360 games on any given day but Nintendo is not hurting at all for my view point. Yes Nintedo's in house titles (Mario, Zelda, Metriod, Etc.) outsell third party hand over fist but that is because nine out of ten third party games on the Wii are just rehashed copies of other Wii games (Party Games, Wii Party, Family Games, Etc.) rushed through development to try to make a quick buck. You can't level the blame of lazy third party developers on Nintendo and there are a few really good third party games on the Wii. The biggest issue I see is more than half of all the Wii games are version after version of "paty games" with no substance. Third party devs with no imagination pumping out the same tired game with a "different" theme. Take the three main HIDs for the Wii: Wiimotes, Nunchuck, Balance board. in most games these are little more than a novelty but some games have made pretty good use of them like Call of Duty Reflex, We Ski, RE4, to name few. If Developers put a little effort forward more people would buy. The question I hear most often from customers about a third party Wii game is in regards to its use of the Wiimotes mainly is the game fun or frustrating?
DO underestimate the power of being up to datre in a social circle.
Nothign worse then playing the game and trying to talk abuot it when everyone else is done and has moved on.
Everything is about social interactions. I wish I had realized that before I was 40.
I have literally seen kids being socially removed for a group of peers because they hadn't seen shark week. None of the kids new they where doing it, they just weren't interested in being with that kid on some subconscious level.
That was the day I get TV hooked up to my house so my kids could watch Myth busters and talk about it with their friends.
It's also they day I realized that all media device are delivery systems,. the content determines value.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Ah, games that let you play with yourself but don't involve your hand shaking up and down.
I drank what? -- Socrates
Miyamoto is batshit, but in a good way, but should never be let near controller design people. In some ways is a very bad designer, the best example being the Super Mario Bros white block trick in 1-3. How many people found that on their own, rather than seeing it done in "The Wizard" or reading a magazine. That sort of thing is counter-intuitive and there's stuff like that in many other Miyamoto games. He's done a few clunkers himself, Zelda II and Luigi's Mansion being most notable.
Ooh, ooh! Can Apple pass on their old Beleaguered banner to Nintendo?
I drank what? -- Socrates
If you believe the numbers on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii#System_sales), then Wii sales are indeed slowing down and Nintendo might need something new to stay competitive.
Also according to Wikipedia, the chips in the Wii are still being made in a 90 nm process while other consoles like the PS3 go through redesigns to make use of more modern manufacturing technology. Eventually, those more capable consoles will be able to compete on price unless Nintendo introduces at least an upgrade in manufacturing methods.
C - the footgun of programming languages
But I'm sure you disagree, Nintendo has its fans apparently. I guess the only way we'll know is in 5 years time. I'll come back here to gloat when Nintendo is the Palm of 2015 looking for someone to buy them.
In other news Michael Dell states that Apple Computer should be shut down and the money should be given back to the shareholders. Off the record he was heard to say "Microsoft owns the desktop what else is there that Apple can do?"
The CPU power has less to do with the Wii's difficulties then you might think. The only affect that the machines power has is that it makes it more difficult to port Xbox or PS3 games over.
The 2 most significant factors are that the marketing position of the Wii, and the unique control system.
The controls are different enough that it makes porting a game directly across that much more difficult. And if your not going to port a game over, then you are going to have to deal with figuring out a control scheme that is suitable to the platform. This has proven to be a non trivial challenge.
The marketing position of the Wii has managed to alienate the core gamers. This is more of a problem for the 3rd party publishers. Nintendo is the only company that has come out with anything that even looks appealing to a core gamer (think Legend of Zelda, Mario Kart, Smash Brothers, and Metroid) for the platform. Those games can sell based on the strength of the brand. But for the 3rd party publishers, there is not much incentive to create something like Gears of War, Assassins Creed or Rainbow 6 Vegas for the platform when doing so will require dramatically reworking the interface for the controller (which makes it a non port of a game) and the art assets to fit that platform (those publishers depend on multi platform sales). Because no one managed this in 2006 to 2007, that customer base moved to the Xbox 360 and PS3. And now that those gamers are entrenched on that platform, none of the major publishers are going to bother trying.
The publishers that could have managed to make those games for the Wii spend the last 4 years making craptastic party games trying to emulate what Nintendo did with Wii sports. And because no one was able to do the job better than Nintendo, and because the non core market is a great deal more picky than the core gamers (only buying a few games a year), no one else made money.
A Wii 2 console will only help the situation if everyone who did buy a Wii can be convinced to buy the new system. Otherwise the Wii 2 will only have an install base that can be determined by the number of people who bought any 3 of Smash brothers Brawl, Metroid, Zelda, Mario Galaxy, and Mario Kart.
END COMMUNICATION
Sad, 100s of comments no mention of a recent game which exemplifies the capabilities which are unique to the Wii console:
Red Steel 2
Incredibly fun to play, It's unfortunate that Ubisoft chose to foreclose on features and replayability in order to keep to their schedule --- if it just had an option for additional downloadable content (think in terms of the ``episodes'' of Strong Bad other Wiiware games) or multi-player, or on-line leaderboard scores for an arena mode or something to keep one playing after beating the game it would be an incredible value and sales success (not that it's doing badly, but it should have done much better than Red Steel 1).
Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
The other reason why games have to be redesigned for the Wii is the lack of hard drive support, meaning severe limits to downloadable content. Here's a clue, Nintendo: the Wii has USB ports! How hard would it be to include a driver for a USB flash drive in the next firmware update?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Wii being a Nintendo product I assume that's "suck" in the Super-Nintendo kind of way (maybe slightly less durable thanks to using discs.)
Sure it's slow but whatever there's something really wrong with the hardware I have no idea.
For instance I remember how many more had problems with their PS2 lasers than with the Gamecube one (though to be honest the Ps2s where probably put to more use ..) and I'm pretty sure Xbox360 failure rates are much higher than Wii ones.
So what if it sucks? it's cheap to produce and sells acceptably well.
Now you sound like someone over at Apple.
That's good for employees and stock-holders but most of us around here are consumers. And for the consumer it matters a freaking lot.
While Sony and Microsoft lost a fortune with their super-duper-powerful machines, Nintendo is profitable all the way. IT PRINTS MONEY!
I think the Xbox360 generates money by now. Doubt the PS3 was a profitable endeavor but on the other hand PS1 and PS2 probably was (though by then they wasn't the most powerful consoles, PS1 for a while maybe PS2 less so than even the Gamecube.)
If nothing else the PS3 may have bought Sony the whole Blu-ray market and that's probably profitable for them.
I'd still pick a Wii but then I'm a pirate so I would just see it as a cheap investment to get a bunch of games I would like to try out. The PS3 fails in that regard (and that's probably a big reason why it sells in less volume. For instance imho the original Xbox was totally uninteresting until the mod-chips and bigger harddrives helped it out ..)
Used games are the NORM even back when there were LED handheld units with only 1 game. A whole industry sprung up and now rivals the movie industry in a world full of used and shared games.
Now they bitch about how they are being robbed of income!? Greedy pricks are just trying to put spin on it like it was a new development and you suckers fall for it. Next thing we know book publishers will get people going against libraries for robbing them of book sales and how its hurting the market and we need to migrate to electronic books... (where sharing is not allowed.)
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
The point is that the attach rate actually ISN'T lower than normal. If you want a low attach rate try the DS.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
People have been decrying the death of Apple and Nintendo for years. I don't get the PASSIONATE and outright HATRED? I don't.
I was one of those Mac haters circa 1997, and up until I got an iPod Touch last October, I was still moderately dispassionate about them. Now, I wouldn't give up my Mac Mini if you pointed a gun to my head. A reliable GUI on a wonderful Unix foundation? Everything Ubuntu pretends to be and fails at.
The problem with Wii is that it lacks good games. Wii hardware is good enough. Sure, it's not the best, but it's OK. Wii controllers are broken, but you can get a classic controller to fix them. The real problem is that Wii has no games besides a few, for a very narrow market niche. How many people these days want to play Mario? And Zelda? Among RPG fans, Zelda is not a huge hit. It's kind of a boring game. Zelda can in no way compare to Fallout 3 (never mind 2, etc.), Oblivion, and even Final Fantasy 12. Arguably Zelda is better than FF13, but only because 13 was so terrible.
So the problem is that Nintendo games are boring have beens of the past, and their 3rd party support is limited and the games focus on gimmickry and waggliness above all else.
And I don't think Nintendo is going to be fixing their software any time soon. So making Wii 2 will not help them in the least. People already know to avoid buying Wii. Many people's Wii is currently gathering dust.
I wonder how many individuals have bought a ps2. I know that over the 9 year life of the console, I've gotten 3 units. First one broke after 4 years, second one broke after 2 years, and the last one is collecting dust in the old entertainment center. Now in the 3.5 years I've had the wii, I have had one. This is nothing against Sony's QC, it seems acceptable especially compared with MSFT's, but sales numbers do not show market saturation.
I don't think the lack of a Wii HD or Wii 2 is hurting NoA. If NoA is truly hurting it boils down to innovations. They need to innovate, and unfortunately they need to succeed. They did very well with the Wii Fit/BB idea, and with the Wii itself, but we haven't really seen anything from them lately. NoA's strengths are based in the fact that NoA carves out a market and then executes well in that market. If NoA were to make a HD gaming platform, they'd likely lose out to Sony/MSFT. They need to play to their strengths, not the crap that this analyst says they should do.
MaYeah, because the 360 and ps3 have games with depth? Their entire catalog can be summed up basically under 14 headings. Lame FPS game that would be better if it was made for a PC, Annual Sports Game, the Newest game knocking off Devil May Cry, racing games, fighting games, puzzle/strategy games, platforming games, third-person shooters, sidescrolling games, rpg games, rts games, mmo games, adventure games, and perhaps even board/card games. That's pretty much it. OH. Sorry. Also music games, but then that's really a party game that's only fun because other people are there.
1. You can't take advantage of the Wii's special input (IR pointer, motion sensor) in anything but a totally gimmicky and unnecessary way if you want to port it to another system, unless you're willing to re-write that entire part of the game.
2. The art and graphics are a huge part of making the game. Having to do that twice means nearly double the effort, vs. only doing it once for PS3/360/PC support.
3. I doubt there are many (any?) decent 3D and/or physics engines that work on the Wii and on the other systems, while there are several that work across the 360, PS3, and PC.
In other words you wouldn't be porting the game, you'd be making a second one from scratch (or you'd be writing a custom and even-more-complicated-than-usual game engine, which is worse). Then there's marketing to consider--if just 5% of the people who own only a Wii would play your game, while 40% of the people who game on a PS3, 360, or PC would, which is your better bet? While those numbers are pulled out of my ass, I doubt the proportion is far off for some game types--how many people who only own a Wii give a shit about violent FPS games, for instance?
Incorrect. Nintendo actually pioneered the idea of selling the consoles at a loss and making the money back on games. The Wii is the first console since the NES to be sold at a profit.
This is absolutely true. But it's also absolutely the number one reason most veteran gamers are bitter towards Nintendo right now. I try not to be, but even I can't help feeling a little left out. Nintendo is like a friend you had your whole life that suddenly starts hanging out with a different crowd. You see them in the hall or at work and you try to be civil, but that little stab of bitterness and jealousy always kinda makes you wish something bad would happen to your old friend and their new group that would teach them a lesson for bailing on you. It's petty and stupid, but it's human.
I really try to look at Nintendo the way I look at Disney or Nickelodeon. I loved these companies when I was a kid. But as I started to get older I began to realize I would eventually have to let them go as my tastes in entertainment began to differ. I think a lot of the problem is that those of us who grew up with Nintendo always kind of figured that Nintendo would grow up with us, and that as our tastes differed, so would theirs.
But we were wrong.
Actually it does not suck and still has some of the best games coming out for it (Super Mario Galaxy 2). Yes it has shovelware but just wait until Natal and Move come out. They'll get the shovelware too...probably Wii ports even.
Pachter, imo, seems to be obsessed with a new Wii to the point of it becoming a joke. He, like most analysts, talk shit and people are pointing out. He's just trying to justify his job. Imo, analysts are just shit stirrers. It's not a real career but I suppose if I was paid to be one and was getting caught out I'd be trying to justify my job too.
If you keep predicting a new Wii year after year then yeah eventually you have to be right. Even I can do that.
The PS2 also sold various revisions with no improvement on processing power but giving people a reason to buy more than one. Even though there is no technical reason to own a PS2 slim anyone who has owned an original and then a slim knows it was the right move and wouldn't go back to the clunky old PS2.
Nintendo is doing the same sort of thing by releasing a black Wii. Don't be surprised if more colours start coming out like they originally showed before the Wii launched. Nintendo isn't dumb and has done this in the past with the Gameboy. You give everyone one option and once everyone more or less has one start giving them colour options and you will get people buying another for their favourite colour and you'll draw in some new people that just might be lured in by a colour better than white.
Actually Nintendo is unlike everyone else in the fact that they have always made a profit on their hardware which is why they made a profit on the unpopular Gamecube where as Sega went under with the Dreamcast.
That is not an issue, is is about software sold per console sold. Just because you were dumb enough to buy yet another soon to be broken device does not enter into it.
The games on the PS3 and 360 Sucked in 2007 and surprise surprise they still suck in 2010.
If you think the games on the PS3 and 360 suck, you clearly haven't actually tried playing any of the good ones. There are many, many more excellent games on either of those consoles than on the Wii, especially when you take downloadables into account.
I'm not saying that the Wii has no good games, but there is so much quality on the high-def consoles. Your statement is way off.
I have no sympathy for third parties when they've purposely choose to knock out PS2 ports with bad controls, amateurish efforts and 900 versions of the same sort of game (ie numerous Resident Evil "lightgun" games) when Nintendo is releasing quality like Super Mario Galaxy.
3rd parties, when they do a quality job, do make money. The Wii has 79 million+ sellers. http://www.industrygamers.com/news/wii-ds-combine-for-79-million-sellers/
That is up from 54 last year. So for one year alone they have had 25. Thanks to the Wii being cheaper to develop for having a million seller on the Wii is much better than on the other systems and not reaching that number isn't even a bad thing (hence the reason they're already looking at Red Steel 3 when RS 2's sales have been lower than RS 1). Wii games sell in smaller numbers over a longer period of time so unlike PS3 and 360 games you can't really judge the success of Wii games on the first week sales. Wii gamers aren't obsessive and need to buy games straight away.
The Wii has genuinely brought about a completely way of doing things. Some third parties can't cope with it and fail. It's a shame but they have no one but themselves to blame.
You're also assuming that Move and Natal will take off. Casual gamers, if they did want to have an "upgraded" Wii by buying a 360 have to buy the more expensive console, the Natal add-on, the highly expensive wifi adapter (if they want wifi like the Wii) and they have to buy the more expensive games.
I don't see that happening and if PS3/360 fans think Wii games are so "gay" then why would they play those sort of games on their system? Better graphics or not they're still motion based games and apparently anything short of a properly controller is shit according those people.
They are doing something by releasing the Wii in other colours, like Black. You can laugh but that tactic has been very successful for every iteration of the Gameboy and DS and all it requires is buying different shades of plastic.
Zelda II was truly awful, imo, but Luigi's Mansion, while lame in some aspects (hated the professor) was probably the best game that took a popular franchise and completely changed it. It was still pretty good as a Mario games (minus Mario) meets Resident Evil. I suspect it would did better than a Resident Evil platformer. Though I would definitely buy that too.
It's also has 79 million sellers and, if I recall, the 360 (which has the highest) is only in the mid-nineties so it's not doing that bad at all against a system with a higher attach rate and supposedly more high quality games.
One reason the Wii probably has a lower attach rate is because some 3rd parties do release crap. Then you have companies like Capcom who do release quality but will also release numerous similar games. Really, how many Resident Evil lightgun games do people need especially people who are obsessive gamers?
Software per console == software sold/consoles sold. As consoles sold increases, the software per console decreases assuming that software sold remains constant. For example, if I had purchased 10 games for my console, then it dies, so I buy another, the software attachment rate goes from 10 to 5. Do you see?
Just because you were dumb enough to buy yet another soon to be broken device does not enter into it.
Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones...
Copyright 2010. All rights reserved. This comment may not be copied in any way including, but not limited to caching.
I think his point is though (and imo he's right) that there is no integrity in gaming journalism. It's fanboys that get a hard-on over freebies who aren't going to piss off publishers who give freebies so saying a system has better scores doesn't mean squat especially if publishers are more willing to give freebies for their PS3/360 games because those games are more expensive so any little thing to help boost sales helps.
The Wii still has nearly as many million sellers as the 360 and more than the PS3. It has a lower attach rate because the Wii has sold so many units and to many different types of gamers and a lot of those gamers will be casuals who may only buy a Wii for Wii sports and one or two other games over a few years. They'll dilute the numbers but why should Nintendo care when they're making profits on their hardware?
The Wii probably is the only recent product where, when they say it's completely different, is right. The old style logic for pretty much every other aspect of gaming does not apply.
And it is FUN to play with. Who cares if the graphics aren't realistic? (Ok, I know the answer, some people do care, but lots of them don't.)
Rethinking email
Well, it's ok if you want to ignore a huge market, with low investiment barriers, and thus low risk, that happens to be saturated, and concentrate in a small market that has a huge barrier to entry, thus huge risky, and is also saturated. It only ceasses to be ok if you ask for a governemnt bailout.
If anything, recent history teached that corporations aren't that smart.
Rethinking email
I love how one person assumes that another hasn't carefully considered something, just because that other person didn't reach the same conclusion. Obviously you're right, there's no other way, because you've *thought about it*!!
I don't see why big N would actually be screwed in 5 years... sure Sony and MS will soon have (but don't yet) motion-based control, but how is it going to be applied to games? We have yet to see, and the way things are now, their motion controllers are going to be high-priced accessories that may never catch on. Nintendo built the system around the motion control and sold it that way from the get-go to both the users and developers.
Also, as others have mentioned, Nintendo will have a new console at some point in the future, definitely in less than 5 years. They never said that the Wii would be the last console you ever need to buy.
In this generation of the console wars, while Sony and MS focused on beefing up their expensive hardware, Nintendo built a simple system with very unique aspects, and did it cheaply enough to massively undercut the other consoles in price (at least initially) while still making a profit on each console sold, and selling tons of copies of really fun first-party titles. Now they have plenty of money in their war chests to reinvest in a new, higher power system. And the next console will come out at a time where more users own HD displays, so N will most likely be catering to that this time around.
And just because the company denies that it's working on a new system doesn't mean they don't have their engineers working hard on research and development, and building prototypes and stuff. Obviously they're not going to admit to something new until they have something concrete to announce. They're going to time that announcement so that it doesn't interrupt the momentum they have going. They're still selling lots of consoles and making billions of dollars in profits each year, even in a tough economy, why would they interrupt that to tell everyone that they're going to be switching focus to a new system? They'll wait to announce and release a new console until there is a need for a new console. And by waiting, they'll have bigger and better technologies to incorporate. At this point in time, and in the forseeable future, where they have made steady profits for several years straight, and most likely have plenty of new ideas up their sleeves, they are most definitely not screwed.
An upgrade on design, transparent to the software, and a lower price seems to be all that is needed.
Nintendo may want to make a HD ready console, I don't know, but doing that is a bet that the current recession is over. Europe isn't currently siding with that bet. Neither is Japan.
Rethinking email
The type of people who use the Wii don't depend on a lot of internal memory. It's not a media machine and it doesn't back up games.
Also, the Wii can make use of SD cards.
Apple didn't have developers when the iPhone first came out, either. They offered web-based apps as the way to program for the iPhone.
The way things turned out, people make it sound like Apple invented apps for mobile devices, and suddenly everyone has to have their own "app store".
A lot can happen with developers between generations of a product, or even within a given generation.
September 24th, 1889:
Jubei: I think that playing card company, Nintendo, will be out of business in 5 years.
Ukyo: You're on, but if that doesn't happen, you owe me dinner!
Nintendo, winning dinners for people for over 120 years.
"MIT betrayed all of its basic principles."
These days jRPGs are waning in popularity (and quality) while western cRPGs are on the rise. Whereas Final Fantasy used to lord over consoles now it's secondary to a game like Mass Effect 2 or Fallout 3.
By the way, Nintendo has bought Monolith, the maker of Xenosaga (not to be confused with the Monolith that made Tron 2.0 and FEAR) and has them working on Xenoblade, they've also got Mistwalker working on The Last Story. Obviously there's Dragon Quest 9 on the DS which hasn't reached the west yet but then again the DS is currently the go-to place for jRPGs.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
I was specifically responding to the point that games on the PS3 and 360 "suck".
There is clearly multiple forms of objective evidence that this is not the case.
As for your made up numbers, maybe if a quality game was made for the Wii maybe 40% of the owners would buy it instead of 5% and ALSO 40% from other platform gamers would buy it as well. Seems like a win-win to me. Nintendo themselves have proven several times that a game can be created without using the "gimmick" of the Wiimote.
At night I drink myself to sleep and pretend I don't care that you're not here with me
I love the Wii. I really do. However, the innovative qualities of the system have led to several irritating side effects, and the system itself has some drawbacks that irk me.
1. Aside form several specific examples, the only true blockbuster games on the system are whatever Nintendo makes. I'm mostly okay with this; I admit, I'd buy the system just for Mario and Zelda.
2. While innovative, the control method is also very much like a fad. It has led to the rise of a huge number of absolutely horrible games that make it out only because the use the Wii controller.
3. Call me shallow, but I really don't like scaling applied to my games.. The graphics quality doesn't matter that much to me, but the Wii simply looks like ass on an LCD TV. Lower texture resolutions are fine, my game looking like I'm not wearing contacts is not.
The end result is that I play my 360 a hell of a lot more than I play my Wii. The system has a lot of potential, but the games that come out just aren't worth much in general.
Agreed. FF12 wasn't worth the plastic it was printed on. Repeat for all other recent Square titles...
Ogre Wedding Planners llc.
Actually your edit is amazingly insightful, if I could mod it +1 I would. You took the words right out of my mouth.
The iPhone is screwed. Apple can not keep up with 10 hardware vendors pushing new hardware innovations on pretty much a monthly basis. And Android will catch up with the only advantage the iPhone has - the polish of the OS and apps.
Yeah, because past performance is indicative of future, right? Everybody mocked the doom and gloomers before the dot-com bust and the housing bubble.
"Oh Frank, you're so silly with your prognostications, everything's fine! I just bought a $500k house and don't pay interest for 2 years, isn't that awesome! House values always go up!"
Like I said, we'll see in 5 years. Things have changed, the future is not bright for Nintendo.
Sony knows its market: A niche market (compared to Nintendo) of hardcore gaming nerds. Nintendo, on the other hand, expanded the market.
Clever signature text goes here.
September 1st, 2007:
Mary: I don't think we can afford a $500k house, Dick.
Dick: Oh Mary, stop worrying. House values always go up, and we don't even pay any interest for 2 years! We're set for life on the money we'll make from this baby!
Eventually the naysayers are right, and all things come to an end. Same with Nintendo - and I mean more like 5 years than when the sun goes supernova.
Indeed, the console race is not about graphics and horsepower anymore. It's about new ways to play games. And Nintendo is leading the way.
Wii is the best-selling console of the next generation. PS3 and 360 are hopelessly stuck in the last generation of button mashing.
Clever signature text goes here.
Yeah, remember the N64 and GC? When Nintendo was part of the graphics race? Didn't help them much, now did it?
Clever signature text goes here.
Morons have been predicting Nintendo's demise for years. But you can bet your ass they have more tricks up their sleeves.
Clever signature text goes here.
Real gamers games? You mean FPS games? LOL. Butthurt hardcore gamers are hilarious.
Clever signature text goes here.
Lowest attach rate? Source, please.
Clever signature text goes here.
Who cares about what your imaginary friends are doing with their imaginary Wiis? You are just speculating wildly.
Clever signature text goes here.
What makes you think Nintendo wants to compete eye to eye? They have clearly decided to go in a different direction, and let the 360 and PS3 swim in the red ocean.
Source?
So? Nintendo is going after the expanded audience.
It will be different. Nintendo will not compete. They will simply go for new markets.
Clever signature text goes here.
Interesting thought, just for comparison I did some research: it seems the PS2 has sold around twice as many as the Wii. I am not sure when the PS2 sales started slowing down, but there is definitely room for more Wii sales.
I disagree with this Michael Pachter guy. Announcing a Wii 2 would kill sales - everyone stops buying when a better successor is just around the corner.
Seems like it'll be a while yet before they completely saturate the market. I can't wait for the price to drop into the $150 range.
Quite the opposite. I was replying to westlake's comment that the Wii belongs to the 'last... standard definition generation of consoles'. The point I was trying to make is that although the Wii itself does not have an HDMI connection, it belongs to the same 'console generation' as the hi-def PlayStation 3.[p] Or was that just an excuse to link to xkcd? In which case, never mind. :)
For optimal comment enjoyment, take red pill now.
Yeah, because past performance is indicative of future, right?
So... basically your prediction strategy is to say it and then hope it comes true.
Like I said, we'll see in 5 years. Things have changed, the future is not bright for Nintendo.
Nintendo takes chances and delivers something different. That's exactly what you need in a market where people want new things all the time. Sony and Microsoft stick well within the tried and true. They'll be playing catch-up while Nintendo has moved on to bigger and better things.
The future is very bright for Nintendo. They're smart enough to take risks and with this latest generation they've got enough banked to safely take even bigger risks. Maybe you'll get lucky and they'll bank on one that doesn't turn out so hot.
"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
It seems that nintendo isn't interested in the wii right now, it seems to me that they are more focused on the 3ds since it has all of the bells and whistles, 3d, multitouch, accelerometer and 2 screens- they want to give apple a run for their money more than they do microsoft and sony.
Lowest attach rate? Source, please.
Here you go.
The reality is the Wii is targeted at a completely different market. These are not gamers, these are random play video game playing families, the bulk of the market. They only play intermittently so they buy the cheapest reasonable console and only a couple of games per year and no hardware add ons, that is it.
Now for you typically insanely greedy corporate gaming executive, that will not feed their disillusions of all being billionaires, that need to be feed by everyone on the face of the plant buying a thousand dollars worth of games each and every year (these are the same idiots from the MPAA and RIAA that also expect everyone, absolutely everyone, to buy $1000 worth of movies and $1000 dollars worth of music and $1000 worth of TV and $1000 worth of crap merchandise).
Nintendo obviously understands it's market and is remaining fairly polite when explaining their position to the gaming publishers, perhaps a little brutal truth mind earn them some peace and quite.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
I for one don't have a problem with this. Why should all games be in the "hardcore gamer" niche?
It sounds like a bunch of jap-crap games for all of those whiteboy emo kids who "dream" of moving to Japan, despite having no clue about the culture or ability to survive in the environment, because they can speak "conversational" (read: can count to ten) in Japanese.
I'm sick of seeing all of these overly idiosyncratic Japanese games and cartoons. Anime USED to be cool back in the 80s, but it's gotten to the point where it just sucks and needs to die. Bring out some real games on the Wii and I might take a look.
But the search actually shows the following headline: "Playstation 3 attach rates ties the Wii"
It even links to a Wikipedia article which states: "In early 2008, the NPD Group revealed sales data showing that, while the Wii's life-to-date attach rate is low, in December 2007, it reached 8.11higher than the attach rates for the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 in that month."
Clever signature text goes here.
My apologies and I'm embarrassed. It is the first result for "wii ps3 attach rate". December 2007 is 2.5 years old.
Here.
I know all three are part of the seventh generation, but it was just confusing since westlake mentioned standard def and then you... oh! I see what you did there.
"I'm not sure I like the fugnutish tone you used in your post!" -RogL (608926)-
Or they could somehow target a new audience with a new game as that's how they got such sales in the first place.
Science & open-source build trust from peer review. Learn systems you can trust.
This is a fanboy argument. As a gamer, I don't care if Nintendo is making tons of money. I care about playing games that I will enjoy. The Wii has the least compelling line-up of the three. So good for Nintendo for making money, but I'm not going to buy it.
Do I feel bad that my 360 doesn't sell as well as the Wii or that MS is making less of a profit? Of course not, why would I care about their financials. I just care that they release games I want to play faster than I can beat them.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
You are making the same mistake he is. Your point that the hardware doesn't make the games. I will argue that the number of games sold doesn't not prove the quality of the game, especially when it is bundled with the console.
Quite frankly the Wii has the fewest games I am interested in playing. The 360 has the most. That is why I have the 360. All these other arguments like profit, attach rate, number of consoles sold, are stupid arguments for fanboys.
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com