Drifting Satellite Could Knock Out Cable TV

A few days back we discussed some of the problems caused by the demise of Intelsat's Galaxy 15, including possible degradation of GPS and its WAAS refinement. Now reader crimeandpunishment writes in with another damage scenario, one which could affect vastly more people — interference with cable TV programming across the US. "A TV communications satellite is drifting out of control thousands of miles above the Earth, threatening to wander into another satellite's orbit... Galaxy 15 continues to receive and transmit satellite signals, and they will probably interfere with the second satellite, known as AMC 11, if Galaxy 15 drifts into its orbit as expected around May 23... [A spokesman] said one option would be using AMC 11's propulsion system to shift that satellite about 60 miles (100 kilometers) away to an orbit that's still within its carefully prescribed 'orbital box' but as far away as possible from Galaxy 15."

Comments

Cable?

[lymond01]

Okay. Even I know that you can't run a cable from a satellite to my house. This whole article is fake.

And while I'm on the Internets, I'd like to bring up the issue about birth certificates again...

Re:Cable?

[sahonen]

*whoosh*

Re:Cable?

[7213]

And here I was looking for the up button for the space elevator :-(

Re:Cable?

[blair1q]

close call. you shoulda adjusted your orbit a bit more.

Re:Cable?

[ozbird]

In space, no one can hear you go "*whoosh*".

Re:Cable?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think they already tried that ad campaign...

Re:Cable?

[Anonymous Coward]

Network feeds are transmitted to your cable provider by satellite.

Re:Cable?

[lennier]

Course you can! You just need to be friends with the right cable guy and a few nanites.

And once you're done you not only get free TV, you get really cheap access to geosynchronous orbit.

Demographics

[cosm]

In other news, on May 23, experts are predicting the possibility of a 10 point jump in the average US citizen's IQ.

Re:Demographics

[LostCluster]

List of tenants on the threatened bird, as I mentioned yesterday.

While this is going to take out almost all of the East Coast feeds of MTV Networks... it's also going to down Discovery Networks and C-SPAN too.

Re:Demographics

[jrmcferren]

You mean a 10 percent drop, it takes out both the History Channel and the Discovery Channel!

Re:Demographics

[cosm]

I heard you like mudkips.

Only when they are being pulverized by the impact of an IntelSat. More and more /b/tards here everyday it seems...

Re:Demographics

[Philip K Dickhead]

Can we do something to increase the likelihood of this occurring? I am willing to resort to petition by prayer.

Re:Demographics

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to like both of those channels, but anymore it seems like all the content is being stretched out from a half hour show to an hour show by adding "recaps" after each commercial break. You basically have to record shows to get any IQ benefit, but I'm not sure what trivia gained from the shows would actually add to ones IQ anyways.

-- gid

Re:Demographics

[ls671]

> In other news, on May 23, experts are predicting the possibility of a
> 10 point jump in the average US citizen's IQ.

And massive riots in every city caused by too many people suddenly waking up to the realty and revolting against the system.

This is clearly a matter of national security. We have to act now to prevent this.

Re:Demographics

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a good thing you didn't miss the joke, otherwise people might think you're a complete and total twat... oh wait..

Re:Demographics

[DarkKnightRadick]

Aside from the loss of Discovery and C-SPAN, I'm not seeing a downside. :p

Re:Demographics

[jd]

They've also ditched a lot of the good content, I check anything I hear in their documentaries against known urban legends (a lot of it turns out to be suspect), and the definition of "history" is a little... odd at times. Repeats are also frustrating. I get the impression that History and HI have maybe a half-dozen DVDs between them per season, and that they assume their audience has such a short attention span they can get away with rotating endlessly between two or three shows a day. There's more documentary footage on YouTube.

Re:Demographics

[fustakrakich]

You cannot petition the lord with prayer!

Re:Demographics

[linzeal]

I predict old people will come out of their homes searching for entertainment.

Re:Demographics

[Shakrai]

In other news, on May 23, experts are predicting the possibility of a 10 point jump in the average US citizen's IQ.

Yes. But the problem is that once they gain those points they'll be smart enough to realize that you can receive American Idol and Survivor for free from digital over the air broadcasts. They will use their new found IQ points to install a spiffy looking antenna, after which the IQ gains will be negated.

Re:Demographics

[Philip K Dickhead]

The monk bought lunch.

Re:Demographics

[sconeu]

Food Network.

Re:Demographics

[Anonymous Coward]

Gasp! You mean there might actually be a time when NO mtv is on in a major section of the country?!?!!! This is fantastic news although it will suck to lose Discovery and History. Perhaps we can make it so all MTV goes away forever but all other channels remain unaffected.

Re:Demographics

[DarkKnightRadick]

Now that is a tragedy.

Re:Demographics

[RavenChild]

Bringing it up to an average of 100.

Re:Demographics

[barberousse]

Actually, it seems like a good thing. Maybe not for the government or some corporations but for the people. I know it's only dreaming but hey, it could happen.

Re:Demographics

[Bing Tsher E]

Not a problem. They have big banks of Andy Griffith and Mayberry RFD DVDs on hand for this sort of emergency.

Re:Demographics

[silverglade00]

And after they break the DVDs trying to insert them into the 8-track player, they will come out of their homes searching for entertainment.

Re:Demographics

[kimvette]

Comedy Central? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! How am I going to watch Futurama's return?!

Re:Demographics

[dakameleon]

you can receive American Idol and Survivor for free from digital over the air broadcasts

... and then we'll have the cable guys lining up for a bailout.

Re:Demographics

[Shakrai]

Take a number.

Re:Demographics

[Deefburger]

In other news, on May 23, experts are predicting the possibility of a 10 point jump in the average US citizen's IQ.

Will it hurt?

Re:Demographics

[Anonymous Coward]

In other news, on Feb 23 2011, experts are predicting the possibility of a 10 point jump in the number of average US citizen

Re:Demographics

[elrous0]

I'm sorry, I can't understand you. To me you sound all pompous and faggy.

Re:Demographics

[operagost]

Don't forget Matlock... they hate everything but Matlock.

Re:Demographics

[Anonymous Coward]

Discovery and History are now crap. 3924623 hours of "Swamp Loggers", "Pawn Stars", "I Drive Big Rigs on Ice", and "I Catch Bottom-Feeding Filter Animals and Sell Them to Gullible Twits". Maybe Discover could show these reality-garbage shows, but wtf are these shows doing on History? Unless they have a 'reality' show featuring people who think they are circa-1660 Anglo-Saxons (or so) it shouldn't be on the History channel.

[/rant]

Re:Demographics

[arkane1234]

Seriously... about the only thing worth it's weight as a History channel show is "America: The Story of Us".
Now that's an excellent show, showing history beyond what the schools ever will teach.

Re:Demographics

[el_gordo101]

Oh shit, NESN is on there. This could affect the Bruins games when they make the conference finals. There will be riots on Causeway Street in Boston! SOMEBODY FIX THIS!

Re:Demographics

[DarkKnightRadick]

Yeah, but if you think the History channel is unbiased or 100% factually correct I have a river to sell you in Egypt.

Fuck, this would be a disaster.

[Anonymous Coward]

This would be a complete disaster for Americans. They might have to resort to reading, playing board games, or even going outside and playing some sports. Shit, they might even get some exercise.

Re:Fuck, this would be a disaster.

[eln]

Don't be absurd. Other than DVD rentals and Internet usage increasing, this won't affect anything.

Re:Fuck, this would be a disaster.

[sortius_nod]

While I know you're joking, it's more than likely true.

Re:Fuck, this would be a disaster.

[Kenshin]

Don't worry, there's always Twitter.

Re:Fuck, this would be a disaster.

[blair1q]

Or we could spend our time training to attack....where were you from again?

Re:Fuck, this would be a disaster.

[SailorSpork]

That's absurd! By the time the TV starts working again, I'll have come back from McDonald's with my Double McLard with cheese with a super-sized bag of Freedom Fries. Won't even miss it.

Re:Fuck, this would be a disaster.

[Rick17JJ]

I use an old fashioned rabbit ears antenna for my TV reception. I have never had cable (or a satellite dish either). I get 6 analog channels on my old mid-1990s 13-inch television set. Six of the channels are converted back to analog form as they pass through the old mountain top translator station between here and Phoenix. The repeater station was not required to make the digital conversion. When using a converter box, I get 1 digital channel instead of the 6 analog channels.

On one of those channels, I only get the sound, but no picture. I am able to get the sound for that channel, when tunning it in from the channel 2-13 televison band on my CC Radio. When using the TV there is no worthwhile sound or a picture, on that channel. That channel is important because it is the only one which has the national network news at 5:30 pm.

If cable fails, everyone could just hook up an antenna and still get several channels. Other good alternatives would be books, magazines, the Internet, DVDs, or radio.

Re:Fuck, this would be a disaster.

[hedwards]

Don't be absurd, what this means is that all Cable companies will be reduced to the same standard of care was Comcast. Comcast will then rebrand itself as being 10 years ahead of the others.

Re:Fuck, this would be a disaster.

[Deefburger]

This would be a complete disaster for Americans. They might have to resort to reading, playing board games, or even going outside and playing some sports. Shit, they might even get some exercise.

Yeah! We might freak out when we realize how stupid we were, then our stupid polititians will have to do something. Nobody knows what yet, but it is sure to be stupid, and it will probably hurt!

Re:Fuck, this would be a disaster.

[Hurricane78]

Have you seen Idiocracy? What are they doing when there is no TV?
Sex! Making even dumber children! Lots of them!
Ok, it’s exercise, and it can also be playing a “board” game, if a board is involved. Even outside. Oh, and it will definitely end in a complete disaster. ;)

Re:Fuck, this would be a disaster.

[operagost]

2003 called, they want their memes back.

The only downside..

[Anrego]

Is that now all the people who spend their time watching reality TV all day will be out in public interacting with others..

It's like myspace and facebook.. evil .. but at least contained! Better than the anglefire/geocities days!

And yeah.. this is totally a troll.. but it's Tuesday and I just got back from work and I really need to make something for dinner but I don't have anything and I'm too lazy to go to the store..

Re:The only downside..

[John Hasler]

> Is that now all the people who spend their time watching reality TV all day
> will be out in public interacting with others..

Not necessarily. It may just lead to an increase in the rate of murder, divorce, and child abuse.

Re:The only downside..

[Anonymous Coward]

Peanut butter, cheddar cheese and BBQ chips sandwich?

Re:The only downside..

[Scaba]

Not necessarily. It may just lead to an increase in the rate of murder, divorce, and child abuse.

Well, someone has to keep us entertained.

Re:The only downside..

[Low Ranked Craig]

Pizza Hut

Dominos

Papa John's

Based strictly on technology, I'd go with Dominos...

Re:The only downside..

[Shakrai]

That's not pizza, that's frozen cardboard crap masquerading as pizza. Find yourself a local pizzeria and get some real pizza. This may be easier said than done depending on where you live (it's one of the things keeping me in the Northeast) but well worth the effort.

Re:The only downside..

[blair1q]

Find yourself a local pizzeria and get some real pizza.

Not always an upgrade. I remember what "local pizzeria" pizza was like before Domino's was invented. Wood-fired? not. Semolina? not. Non-greasy muzz? not. Domino's got popular fast because it was quite a bit better than the local stuff in most places.

It wasn't until the late 90s/early 00s that local shops started opening offering product with serious consideration for quality. Domino's had already had to fight a price war with Pizza Hut, which forced a reduction the cost and quality of their ingredients on both sides. That allowed Papa John's to enter the market with a mediocre (sugary sauce and bland toppings) product.

Domino's claims to have given its food a facelift. I haven't tried it yet. But that's because I know of some not-so-local places, one of which is VPN certified, to get perfect pizza, and I drive past several "locals" and Dominos and PJ's and PH's to get to them.

Re:The only downside..

[sconeu]

Thank you! I thought I was the only one who hated Papa John's because their sauce is too f-ing sweet.

To be honest, I rather like both Domino's and Pizza Hut. But there's a local pizzeria (Uncle Ernie's, for those of you in the Chatsworth, CA area) with a *KILLER* Garlic and Red Onion pie.

Re:The only downside..

[Shakrai]

I guess it depends on where you live. I've always lived in communities with large numbers of Italian-Americans and the local pizza shop is almost always superior to the chains. As I said, this is one of the things keeping me in the Northeast. Hard to find a good pizza in the rest of the country, at least in my experience.

Re:The only downside..

[Low Ranked Craig]

Personally I agree, but I don't know where this dude (presumably) lives...

Re:The only downside..

[Deefburger]

Is that now all the people who spend their time watching reality TV all day will be out in public interacting with others..

It's like myspace and facebook.. evil .. but at least contained! Better than the anglefire/geocities days!

And yeah.. this is totally a troll.. but it's Tuesday and I just got back from work and I really need to make something for dinner but I don't have anything and I'm too lazy to go to the store..

I'm with him. I'll have what he's having. So, that'll be two plates of stupid please, hold the mayo.

Re:The only downside..

[tehcyder]

There's no fanboy like a pizza fanboy, they make wine snobs seem sensible by comparison.

Re:The only downside..

[blair1q]

Oh, but I'm also a wine snob.

If you have a Trader Joe's near you, give the Two-buck-Chuck Merlot a shot. It's surprising for $2 (in CA) or $3 (elsewhere). (Ignore the Cab or Shiraz; the Cab is about what I'd expect for $3 and the Shiraz is a waste of the money).

Re:The only downside..

[jjbenz]

I must say that I had to eat pizza hut pizza the other day and it was complete crap, synthetic cheese and greasy crust. I'll take a local pizza place any day over the mass produced crap, even the bad ones are better than what Pizza Hut or Dominoes can come up with.

ham radio

[FuckingNickName]

Stories like this make me happy to be a ham. I don't need a complex infrastructure and global political stability to communicate with anyone, woohoo!

Re:ham radio

[Yvan256]

Yeah but you're always watching your back because of wolves. Must be stressful.

Re:ham radio

[FuckingNickName]

That problem was solved long before we became reliant on the above.

Re:ham radio

[Yvan256]

"Stories like this make me happy to be a ham."

Re:ham radio

[ls671]

Funny you mention this, I have thought of buying a ham radio for that very reason. I already have deep cycle batteries and a generator ;-))

We could even run tcp/ip over ham radio and set up an emergency network to enable data transfer in case the internet becomes unavailable ! :

http://www.febo.com/hamdocs/intronos.html

Re:ham radio

[FuckingNickName]

It was so bad as a joke that I took it at face value; sorry.

Here's another similar joke which falls flat on its face. I thought it up just now, and as I did so I read that my country's just formed a Conservative-Liberal coalition government. That's pretty harsh punishment, as punishment for bad jokes go, but I think I deserved it.

Why don't we like QRP on 137.5kHz?
Because HAMS don't like WOLF.

WOLF is Weak-signal Operation on Low Frequency, see.

Re:ham radio

[GoodNicksAreTaken]

Stories like this make me happy to be a ham. I don't need a complex infrastructure and global political stability to communicate with anyone, woohoo!

Except for band allocations and licensing. Even if you operate as a 'pirate' you have to rely upon repeaters, which even if you set up illegal repeaters you've got to worry about access to a suitable location. For DX you've got to worry about sun spot cycles and/or the time of day and ionosphere conditions. Even if everything is in YOUR favor, you've still got to rely upon someone at the other end having access to equipment to receive and/or transmit back. I'm lucky enough to live near a Ham Radio Outlet where I can deal with a bunch of attitude because I'm a ham under 50 years old. Before moving to this state the nearest brick and mortar was this same HRO, over 1000 miles away from where I lived. I can walk a few hundred yards from almost anywhere to a convenience store, Wal-mart, etc. and buy a pay as you go cell phone for $50 USD and talk to my parents who have a cell phone and are currently volunteering at a clinic in rural Romania.

Re:ham radio

[FuckingNickName]

For DX you've got to worry about sun spot cycles and/or the time of day and ionosphere conditions.

Over the past few thousand years, these have all been more predictable than geopolitics.

I can walk a few hundred yards from almost anywhere to a convenience store, Wal-mart, etc. and buy a pay as you go cell phone for $50 USD

Indeed. And you'd be reasonable to choose it today. Since the Great War was the war to end all wars, you'll always be able to choose it.

Re:ham radio

[gyrogeerloose]

Stories like this make me happy to be a ham. I don't need a complex infrastructure and global political stability to communicate with anyone, woohoo!

FuckingNickName de KJ6BSO pse kn

Re:ham radio

[poopdeville]

I'm not a ham, but would be willing to learn, and share my multi terabyte video collection.

Re:ham radio

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually I just dumped my cable TV for over the air broadcasting last weekend. For the cost of a single month of cable, I got an antenna, distribution amplifier, and digital tuner for my last analog TV in the house. Considering the only cable channel I was watching was Discovery, I don't feel I've lost much. And the picture quality is actually _better_ over the air because I don't have a cable company compressing it to oblivion.

You don't need to go HAM to disengage yourself from fragile complex communication networks. Just go buy yourself an antenna like your parents/grandparents had. The picture clarity is better than cable even if you live in a rural area. And if you want two-way communication, get yourself a GMRS license and a couple of 50 watt tranceivers with good antennas. If you have two cell phones, you can do this for the cost of about 3 months worth of cell service with a moderate minute plan. GMRS is suited for families because one license covers the licensee, the spouse, the parents, aunts/uncles, in-laws, nieces/nephews, and the children of the licensee with no need to pass a test. Find a community repeater for up to 50+ mile coverage.

Re:ham radio

[ls671]

I don't even know if it is possible to go above 9600 Baud with a single link.

I think that you may need multiple frequencies, multiple links/bonding (multiple modems) to achieve speeds suitable for video transfers.

Anybody actually got experience with tcp/ip over ham radio ?

How fast would the band become saturated if many people started to do this with multiple links/bounding ?

Any other comments ?

Re:ham radio

[Anonymous Coward]

FYI:

802.11b (at least, possibly the others) are partially secondary allocation on a ham band, so some slight driver modifications (assuming you have access to the source) would give you both full ham band access and a higher power output (theoretically 1.5kW). Multiple similarly configured devices makes an easy network.

Caveats:

* No encryption, at all. It can be coded (hence the allowance for binary, standard data formats, etc) but no obfusicated information. That means no WEP authentication either.

* The content of the video matters as well. No commercial communications (no ads or movies, for instance), you're limited to FCC decency rules (no porn transmitting, sorry), you're required to identify your station every few minutes, and keep in mind that while standardized video compression is fine, it needs to be an open format that others can both identify and play back (see above about no encryption).

There was a big hassle a few years back about hams being able to use telepatch repeaters to order pizza or not.

I don't want to discourage you at all, but just remember that they're very strict about keeping it amateur. Depending on what you want to do, it may be easier to just set up a 802.11n repeater on a pole as an open hotspot.

Re:ham radio

[ls671]

I don't want to discourage you at all, but just remember that they're very strict about keeping it amateur. Depending on what you want to do, it may be easier to just set up a 802.11n repeater on a pole as an open hotspot.

Of course, I assume it would be a lot cheaper too, ham equipment to support a modem seems rather expensive. ;-)

http://www.wimo.de/cgi-bin/verteiler.pl?url=pactor-ptc_e.html

Re:ham radio

[ls671]

Oh, additionally, wave lengths of ham can bounce on clouds and lakes/oceans so you can sometimes reach the other side of the planet.

That was my first idea when I was talking about an "emergency network".

Re:ham radio

[pclminion]

Except for band allocations and licensing. Even if you operate as a 'pirate' you have to rely upon repeaters, which even if you set up illegal repeaters you've got to worry about access to a suitable location.

You're saying that in the event of a global catastrophe which cuts off the "normal" communications channels, the FCC is going to make it a priority to hunt down and prosecute people using ham radio without a proper license? Get real.

Re:ham radio

[Anonymous Coward]

The barriers to entry are so high that when normal communications channels go to hell that hams are going to be in trouble because there will be so few other hams to communicate with because the convenience of cell phones has killed a lot of interest in amateur radio. I used to run an APRS rig but digipeters were always going down along my route and in the mountains there was nothing you could reach to get packets passed to a gateway. Now that route has cell phone towers that can connect to the internet along those parts of the interstate and its easier and cheaper to run something off a GPS enabled smartphone. If I didn't think amateur radio was important I wouldn't be a ham. But even with the ever easier ham testing the number of hams is shrinking dramatically the last I checked and amateur radio is in a poor state as in a real emergency I don't think the limited number of ARES trained hams is going to be enough.

Sat that breaks the BACKBONE....

[LostCluster]

AMC-11 (the threatened satellite) is a major backbone in the pay TV infrastructure for the Eastern USA. What that means, is that channels like MTV, VH1, G4, NESN, and many more use AMC-11 to get the content from their master control to your local cable system, DirecTV, and Dish in order for them to replicate the signal on their platform. If AMC-11 is jammed, ALL platforms will lose the affected channels... and there's no one place in space with enough free space to hold them all, so relocating for a temp outage isn't really an option.

Re:Sat that breaks the BACKBONE....

[Klinky]

MTV, VH1 & G4 all off the air at one time? Heaven could indeed be a place on earth once again...

If only we had...

[Daswolfen]

A reusable space vehicle which could be launched to retrieve or repair the satellite...

Re:If only we had...

[slick7]

My orbital recovery system seems to be what is needed.

Re:If only we had...

[peragrin]

it's amazing that the airforce has one up there right now.

Re:If only we had...

[MichaelSmith]

A reusable space vehicle which could be launched to retrieve or repair the satellite...

...which could fly to geosynchronous orbit. Apollo would have been the ideal vehicle for the job because it had legs in the sense that you could send it practically anywhere and it could aerobrake to a safe landing. A flight to mars would not have been out of the question and an asteroid mission was seriously discussed.

The shuttle was designed for low earth orbit and could only fly there.

Re:If only we had...

[Anonymous Coward]

A reusable space vehicle which could be launched to retrieve or repair the satellite...

For the record, the space shuttle gets just over 250 miles altitude. The satellite in question is at an altitude of about 22,236 miles.

The amount of fuel needed to transit the space shuttle between these orbits is prohibitive. It was never designed for general purpose satellite repair; it was just a demo.

Re:If only we had...

[LostCluster]

We don't need a manned mission to get rid of this wayward and useless piece of former satellite space junk... we just need to blast it out of the path it's going to some other one.

Re:If only we had...

[the_other_chewey]

We don't need a manned mission to get rid of this wayward and useless piece of former satellite space junk... we just need to blast it out of the path it's going to some other one.

Yup, because an expanding cloud of space shrapnel with orbital velocities is so much better than a single satellite with a known orbit.

Re:If only we had...

[The Grim Reefer2]

we just need to blast it out of the path it's going to some other one.

I'm not to fond of memes but in this case; What could possibly go wrong?

Re:If only we had...

[slick7]

LEO not GEO.

Re:If only we had...

[Wyatt Earp]

You mean one that can go to that orbit?

Humanity has never had a vehicle that can do that sort of work.

Re:If only we had...

[sznupi]

A reusable space vehicle which would be able to do that with GEO satellites (they are among the biggest ones), while also getting to their orbit and being able to deorbit with the payload, would be prohibitively expensive. Much more than Shuttle or Buran. So maybe that's why we don't have one...

If you really want to, bulding the satellite inside a reentry capsule would be most likely cheaper...but still pointless. Requiring higher launch mass & more powerful rockets - for mass of the reentry structure...and of the fuel needed for reentry; but you would get an obsolete, space-weathered piece of junk and would waste fuel which could be used for station keeping.

Re:If only we had...

[R3d M3rcury]

Apollo would have been the ideal vehicle for the job because it had legs in the sense that you could send it practically anywhere and it could aerobrake to a safe landing.

Well, except for the "retrieval" part. And the "repair" part, without the Canadarm, would probably be kinda tricky, too.

But at least the Apollo capsule could have gotten astronauts there and humans can be pretty ingenious...

Just out of curiosity, I understand the Shuttle is not designed to go to Geosynchronous orbit. Is it merely a matter of thrust that keeps it Low-Earth Orbit or are there other issues as well?

Re:If only we had...

[Iron Condor]

They have a delta-v of 3.3; if they want they can go to the moon with that thing.

Re:If only we had...

[GIL_Dude]

Blast can also mean "burn" as in a rocket. Not that you are wrong at all - if the GP meant blast in the "blow it up" sense that would be really bad. But if he meant "a 4 second blast on the rocket engine or thruster" - then, as long as they set that burn sequence up to either deorbit the satellite or put it in an orbit that won't intersect any useful satellite's orbit for a long, long time it should be good.

Re:If only we had...

[quacking duck]

Shuttle can't reach Geosynchronous orbit... actually, if wiki is correct it only gets to around 1% of the necessary altitude:

Shuttle orbit: 380 km (for space station missions)
Geosynchronous orbit: 35,786 km

Re:If only we had...

[blair1q]

Maybe we could put a 100-ton concrete dome over it...

Re:If only we had...

[blair1q]

No. What we need is this dude: http://quark.name/

Re:If only we had...

[MichaelSmith]

The shuttle is much more specialized than most vehicles out there. It can pull fewer G's than a 747. Its heat shield can barely cope with a return from low earth orbit, once it didn't. I am sure a way could be found to get it to GSO, but you could never get it back. Heating could be a problem while in orbit because the shuttle was designed to spend half its time in shadow.

Re:If only we had...

[MichaelSmith]

Shuttle can't reach Geosynchronous orbit... actually, if wiki is correct it only gets to around 1% of the necessary altitude:

Yeah though in energy terms it is much more than 1%, so the shuttle is closer than that. The real problem is that the shuttle was designed with so many shaved tolerances than it can really only operate in LEO.

Re:If only we had...

[R3d M3rcury]

Actually, I think it's highest was 360 miles (594 kilometers) on STS-82.

But again, is it just the Shuttle's inability to get there (ie, it can't carry enough fuel to get up there and get back)? Or is there more (eg radiation shielding, etc.)?

Re:If only we had...

[cgenman]

Anything you could launch up there to get at or repair the satellite would be inherently more expensive to launch than replacing the satellite. The main cost is the launch.

Now, something permanently up in space that could maneuver other satellites would be very helpful. But unless it's going to have enough maneuvering fuel to change orbits repeatedly, you'd have to have some way of moving other satellites by hitting them with something, such as lasers. Maybe a laser-reactive outer coating that could provide a short burst of thrust when exposed to the right frequency of light?

Re:If only we had...

[Obfuscant]

- if the GP meant blast in the "blow it up" sense that would be really bad.

Is this really /., where nerds hang out? Everyone knows that a space blaster causes a complete disintegration of the object/person being blasted, no shrapnel.

Re:If only we had...

[CityZen]

a tractor beam. Hey, as long as you start with "if only", you might as well go for the ultimate lazy man's solution.

Of course, you might want some shields with that too.

Re:If only we had...

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't use logic, facts, reason and engineering knowledge around here. This place is a haven of Space Nutters and Energy Utopians. I mean we have people here who think we'll have orbiting solar arrays, space elevators, sub-orbital passenger travel, you name it; any number of sci-fi speculations and engineering impossibilities they've been exposed to through a steady diet of Star Trek, Star Wars and terrible novels.

So duh, just build a bigger rocket that'll use a space elevator on the moon! We can then mine the He3 and run fusion plants for all the power we need!

Don't you just feel dumb now?

Re:If only we had...

[Bing Tsher E]

The shuttle was designed in the same era, and by engineers with the same mindset, as the Chrysler Cordoba.

I'm sure we've all seen one or two of those. Vinyl roof rusting off, and the chrome fender mostly flake because it's rusting away from the inside.

Re:If only we had...

[zippthorne]

You don't blow it *apart.* You intercept it with a robot that's little more than a claw attached to an ion drive. Then slowly push it to either escape velocity or earth intercept velocity. Or moon intercept velocity, come to think of it.

Or you just leave it there and hope it goes dark. The real problem with satellites in other satellites' parking spots is that they're spaced as far apart as they are is to control the specificity of the ground station antennas needed to select one or the other. Actual, unplanned collisions are exceedingly unlikely. Once the transmitter's dead, the problem is basically solved.

Re:If only we had...

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean a 200-ton concrete sphere around it don't you?

Re:If only we had...

[MattLees]

Or Nuke it? http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/05/11/1440206/Oil-Leak-Could-Be-Stopped-With-a-Nuke?from=twitter

Re:If only we had...

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought that thing was made of metal. Either way, it won't work. Time for Plan B, huck golf balls and hunks of tires at it.

Re:If only we had...

[slick7]

Like I said...

Re:If only we had...

[pclminion]

Just out of curiosity, I understand the Shuttle is not designed to go to Geosynchronous orbit. Is it merely a matter of thrust that keeps it Low-Earth Orbit or are there other issues as well?

Leaving aside the obviously huge amount of fuel you'd need... the problem is conservation of energy. It takes a LOT of energy to reach geosynch orbit. This energy doesn't just vanish when you want to turn around and come back. As you fall into Earth's gravity well, that potential energy transforms into kinetic energy. Result? You're going to slam into the atmosphere going 10 or so times faster than the shuttle can handle.

Not my cable...

[thegreatbob]

Please shoot it down...

Re:Not my cable...

[Anonymous Coward]

this is the perfect object to test our satellite killer technology on and prove it really works

Terrible, possibly fatal blow to the economy

[StefanJ]

Without the 8 or so hours a day that cable channels broadcast mindless infomercials, retail activity in the U.S. will grind to a halt.

Meanwhile, I'll be sitting pretty with crystal clear reception of the two dozen or so locally broadcast channels, thanks to the home brew dipole antenna I made with plans from MAKE magazine.

Cut the coax!

Re:Terrible, possibly fatal blow to the economy

[LostCluster]

Only problem is that those local channels use satellites to get the network and syndicated programs they air.

Re:Terrible, possibly fatal blow to the economy

[TubeSteak]

Only problem is that those local channels use satellites to get the network and syndicated programs they air.

Time to test their backup plans.
They do have a backup... right?

Re:Terrible, possibly fatal blow to the economy

[LostCluster]

Not everybody. Small networks like MTV Jamz most likely are lucky to have their main slot, nevermind the backup. And most "backup plans" exist in the form of pre-empt rights on other birds which just causes the trouble to head downhill in the food chain.

Re:Terrible, possibly fatal blow to the economy

[LostCluster]

A lot of the coverage of the Galaxy IV failure during expanded versions of the nightly newscasts was in part because Galaxy IV customers used pre-empt rights to other feeds, leaving syndicated shows that air during the 7p hour unable to get to stations in time.

Re:Terrible, possibly fatal blow to the economy

[Joe U]

Time to test their backup plans.
They do have a backup... right?

It should be multicast Internet broadcast, but I'm betting it's not.

the ultimate solution

[slick7]

We can nuke it like "they" want to do with leaking oil wells.

Way to go Galaxy 15!

[Sir_Lewk]

How many other slashdotters are actually rooting for Galaxy 15? The thought of it possibly knocking about cable television is just far too amusing to me (unlike cable television ;).

Re:Way to go Galaxy 15!

[joelsanda]

Yep. I can devote the time I gain from not watching television to listen to friends and family grouse about their ability to not watch television. Hell, this may make things a bit quieter for me, given how many people I know would lose what appears to be their only readily available topic of conversation!

Re:Way to go Galaxy 15!

[Low Ranked Craig]

I am. We only turn the TV on at about 10PM, and then only to watch Star Trek TNG or Discovery channel. Personally I think this is a plot by Apple to get more people to buy iPads...

Re:Way to go Galaxy 15!

[DarkKnightRadick]

*has to say it*

Is it time for a Galaxy Quest?

Re:Way to go Galaxy 15!

[mirix]

Apart from a few shows I download on occasion, I'd be completely oblivious to the fact that TV is down. Bring it on.

Now if it were to interrupt the internet, that would be a different story.

Re:Way to go Galaxy 15!

[blair1q]

No. This is a job for Quark.

Re:Way to go Galaxy 15!

[QuantumRiff]

I think it would make a great Reality TV show! Winning Sattelite gets a pass on getting kicked out of orbit this week!

Re:Way to go Galaxy 15!

[Bing Tsher E]

I turned on the TV a few weeks ago because I'd bought an X-Box at Goodwill and wanted to check it out and see what all the excitement is about. It had a defective disc drive so I returned it to Goodwill.

I also used it recently because I bought a Video-out cable for my iPod Touch at a flea market for $6.50 and wanted to check it out. Yep. I could watch Youtube on the regular TV set now if I wanted to. I haven't thus far, though.

The wife wants the TV set to stay there. I'd like to use the space for another bookshelf. Or maybe an aquarium.

Re:Way to go Galaxy 15!

[Renraku]

That sounds like terrorist talk to me. Congratulations for making it onto a no fly list!

Re:Way to go Galaxy 15!

[Deefburger]

Galaxy 15! Galaxy 15! Go! Go! Go! Hey, it won't mess with Mythbusters will it?

Re:Way to go Galaxy 15!

[drinkypoo]

That's OK, we've already seen that you can still fly if you're on the no fly list, and a wanted terrorist. It shouldn't impact his life much, unless he has nothing to hide... And what are the odds of that?

Re:Way to go Galaxy 15!

[Sir_Lewk]

That's ok, Galaxy 15 would probably crash into my plane anyways.

Shotgun!

[Anonymous Coward]

I need to get me my shotgun. We're about to have zombies pouring out all over the streets!

Money making opportunity missed

[Captain Spam]

Next time, they should think ahead in a case like this. They should have mounted a camera on Galaxy 15, broadcasting simple video on the transponders, preferably on separate circuits and with separate processing. Then, if the sat goes down like this BUT the transponders are still... um... transponding, try to track it enough so you can watch it crash into AMC-11 from its own perspective.

And, air it live on PPV. Instant money!

What does this mean?

[theArtificial]

Story at 11?

Re:What does this mean?

[Yvan256]

Nope. Story the day after, in the newspapers.

Re:What does this mean?

[LostCluster]

Nah.. local breaking news constant coverage all night because the primetime shows didn't make it there.

Re:What does this mean?

[gmhowell]

What's a newspaper, grandpa?

Dupe

[Anonymous Coward]

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/10/05/09/2256256/Geostationary-GPS-Satellite-Galaxy-15-Out-of-Control

Great, now we can finally...

[Nethemas the Great]

make some progress on the orbital debris problem. Nothing like taking away an American's television to spur the democracy into action.

Lost finale on May 23rd

[drexlor]

How will I ever know how Lost ends!!

Re:Lost finale on May 23rd

[Anonymous Coward]

Catch it online the next day.

Just, you know, stay off of any internet site where people are capable of posting any comments of any kind in the meantime.

Re:Lost finale on May 23rd

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe this is the Lost finale? Think about other recent Lost related events... a smoke monster attacks Europe, preventing people from flying (much like in last week's episode). Also, remember the Indonesia tsunami? Well, what happened around that time (in terms of on-island time) on the show? Yes, the island disappeared!

Re:Lost finale on May 23rd

[hedwards]

The Skipper and Gilligan take the rest on another cruise and they wind up cracking open Gilligan's head for the gooey nougatty center.

Actual footage of G-15 loss.

[Anonymous Coward]

Luckily our Japanese friends were able to document this:

http://video.yahoo.com/watch/5700347/14933551

Re:Actual footage of G-15 loss.

[Anonymous Coward]

So you think any animated show that depicts big eyed and spiked hair characters is Anime? baka!

Satellite Fight!

[WrongSizeGlass]

Could this be ... the first ... Satellite fight? That would be even better than fighting robots.

First they could cross the streams of their satellite signals. Then a few thruster jabs. And then, what we've all been waiting for, full contact satellite warfare! Take that, SkyNET!

Re:Satellite Fight!

[mangu]

Could this be ... the first ... Satellite fight?

Nope, happens all the time. There's a bunch of derelict satellites up there and we must maneuver the operating satellites to get out of their path.

The problem with AMC-11 is that Galaxy-15 failed just recently and its transponders are still operating. Normally they shut down the transponders when a satellite fails, but in this case the command decoder itself seems to have failed, so Galaxy-15 is not accepting any commands.

Given enough time, the on-board computer will take over and shut down the transponders. This will happen automatically when the sun and earth sensors detect the orbit has deviated too much from the nominal conditions.

Re:Satellite Fight!

[blair1q]

What's really bizarre is that it's still operating.

Usually when a satellite fails to communicate properly with its ground control system, after a set period of time it assumes something is wrong and goes into Safe Mode. In Safe Mode it would shut off everything except a basic command and control system and the comms needed to get commands from the ground. It hasn't done that.

The big question is, why not?

Re:Satellite Fight!

[wickedskaman]

It's clearly a SkyNet issue.

Re:Satellite Fight!

[Runaway1956]

Could it be that some cranky old bastid has taken control of the satellite, and he's going to use it to knock out satellite television? If so, he deserves some kind of a medal.

Re:Satellite Fight!

[Seedy2]

Someone with a really big telescope should swing it over that way and see if there is a BSOD, too bad they don't have a remote power cycle switch; it would save someone from having to drive out and reboot the thing.

Re:Satellite Fight!

[dimeglio]

Usually, I believe is the key word here. Maybe they left in a large margin of error. All things considered, the chance of two satellites colliding is astronomically minute. If you would take all the billiard balls on a table in a break triangle and pretend gravity reverses for them only until they reach geostationary orbit, they would end-up about 20 meters apart from each other. Quite a big distance, yet they started very close to each other.

Re:Satellite Fight!

[Anonymous Coward]

Defense says monitoring objects in space becoming more urgent

Re:Satellite Fight!

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem seems to be a solar flare has fried the onboard computer, so hoping it shuts itself down is a long shot. Best we can hope for is either the transponder fails or it uses up the batteries and that causes it all to shut down.

Re:Satellite Fight!

[inKubus]

Because this was actually a test target for the X-37 which launched 4/22/2010, but they had to make it LOOK like a malfunction so the Russians and Chinese wouldn't notice or be able to publically comment..

Re:Satellite Fight!

[Vectormatic]

perhaps it is time to develop a highly directional EMP weapon, to fry this sucker out completely, you would still have a big heap of junk floating around, but at least it wouldnt be a disruptive ball of junk..

Re:Satellite Fight!

[Hurricane78]

It obviously has become sentient and doesn’t want to. ;)

Re:Satellite Fight!

[Agripa]

Do you mean like an atomic bomb pumped x-ray or gamma ray laser?

Re:Satellite Fight!

[Vectormatic]

sounds interesting, just so long as you dont fry the satelite next to it...

either that or focus on getting the ability to rapidly de-orbit any random object, which probably means putting a 'weapons' platform up there with several guided grab-n-boost missiles

Re:Satellite Fight!

[petermgreen]

My understanding from the previous article on this is that in the not too distant future (few months from now iirc) it should run out of fuel for attitude control.

Once the attitude control fails it should lose power pretty quickly.

Re:Satellite Fight!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's becoming sentient.

Re:Satellite Fight!

[Anonymous Coward]

What's really bizarre is that it's still operating.

And so is Fox News.....

Re:Satellite Fight!

[rubi]

V-isitors?

Re:Satellite Fight!

[mangu]

in the not too distant future (few months from now iirc) it should run out of fuel for attitude control.

Unfortunately not. A geostationary satellite uses about 90% of its fuel for inclination control (north-south maneuvers), 9% for east-west maneuvers, and just 1% for attitude control. It could easily run a hundred years of attitude maneuvers with the fuel it has now.

Satellite vs. cable

[Anonymous Coward]

Wait a minute. Comcast has advertised in the past about how much more reliable they are than the satellite providers. So not only are they susceptible to the same issues, but have an additional hundreds, if not thousands of miles of terrestrial failure points as well. And here I thought if it was on TV it had to be true. Next someone will say there are false statements on the internet.

Re:Satellite vs. cable

[mirix]

They're more reliable because they have big dishes, so weather isn't as much of an issue. (and is not an issue at all for local channels).

Of course if the satellite falls out of the sky it isn't going to work.

Without Cable

[Anonymous Coward]

Old people will roam the streets.

In other words

[sharkey]

We're going to lose the bleeps, the sweeps and the creeps? Ad-laden "commercial-free pay TV" will be jammed?

Iptv is teh future

[crsftw]

IPTV is the future, not cable or satellite. The days of cable are near to the end, long live the net ! Cheers! Chris

Re:Iptv is teh future

[NotQuiteReal]

Um, your favorite IPTV headend still gets ITS programming from satellite... still the cheapest way to get distributed (if not delivered).

AMC 11

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.lyngsat.com/amc11.html

Drifting satellite could cause baby boom?

[Anonymous Coward]

I predict a baby boom, like the great northeast blackout/ice storm/whatever the heck it was. Someone's gotta track this, to tell the kids what lame couch potato parents they had.

OK, if you don't like MTV and VH1...

[NotQuiteReal]

You might care about Discovery and History.

There are quite a few channels on AMC11 that you might care about...

Re:OK, if you don't like MTV and VH1...

[RMH101]

What, Sharks and Nazis? Not so much.

Launch Avoidance Maneuver!!

[fahrbot-bot]

A TV communications satellite is drifting out of control thousands of miles above the Earth, threatening to wander into another satellite's orbit...

Wait! I've seen this US Air Force TV commercial.
Can't they just "launch the avoidance maneuver"?

Re:Launch Avoidance Maneuver!!

[LostCluster]

The problem is not that the satellite is being hit by anything, but that a satellite that doesn't belong anywhere near it with its transmitters at full power is going to drift into the way, potentially jamming the signals that do belong there.

Re:Launch Avoidance Maneuver!!

[jmorris42]

> ..its transmitters at full power..

Maybe I'm just an idiot and missing something obvious but something about this story has bothered me for days. This bird is a bent pipe design and the transceiver is still fully functional, right? It is (re)transmitting on the same frequencies as AMC11, otherwise we wouldn't have a problem. Sounds simple enough, turn off AMC11's outputs, redirect the uplink for a few days and just let G15 transmit until it moves far enough away for ground stations to pick out the two signals. Ok, ground stations would probably need to twiddle their dish almost daily during the transit but it should work and sure beats the alternative.

May 23rd is the night of the Lost series finale

[Anonymous Coward]

With that news, how many of you TV-hating Slashers suddenly changed your satellite-supporting ways?

Will it interfere with the Internet?

[blair1q]

If the net is up, I'm cool with these things bashing into each other.

Directv get's channels on fiber Comcast hits may g

[Joe The Dragon]

Directv get's channels on fiber Comcast hits may go down with this.

Get China to knock it out of the sky

[mlawrence]

Easy solution.

Re:Directv get's channels on fiber Comcast hits ma

[LostCluster]

DirecTV gets SOME channels by fiber, not all of them.

Comcast sports net Chicago HD is fiber and D* E*

[Joe The Dragon]

Comcast sports net Chicago HD is fiber and D*, E* only. Only sd ver of it is non a NON DISH or Directv sat.

Same thing for CSN + / ALT.

Good for the NHL that Versus / Versus ALT are not

[Joe The Dragon]

Good for the NHL that Versus / Versus ALT are not on it.

Alternatives

[darkpixel2k]

Now reader crimeandpunishment writes in with another damage scenario, one which could affect vastly more people — interference with cable TV programming across the US

Rogue satellites got you down? BitTorrent.

May the Directv ones can they use the same boeing

[Joe The Dragon]

May the Directv ones can they use the same boeing sats that the air force has in the lunch pipe line.

Hm

[sea4ever]

Where I am now, at least 80% (or so it seems) of the population has drifted away from television and get all their entertainment online.
I don't know if this is like the rest of the world, but imho not many people are going to notice.

Am I the only one expecting...

[OrwellianLurker]

Am I the only one expecting a spike in accidental deaths in the event of a widespread cable tv outage?

Bogus

[PPH]

A drifting satellite knocking out my cable? I doubt it. I've got underground utilities. That would have to be one mighty low orbit.

Re:Bogus

[Anonymous Coward]

You sir, are a idiot

And...

[Anonymous Coward]

nothing of value was lost

or...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Given enough time, the on-board computer will take over and shut down the transponders"
or, it takes over and starts wakening other satellites. it's a matter of time till they reach the laser satellites and start a full scale earth attack!

The only way to be safe

[Anonymous Coward]

Is to nuke it *in* orbit...

Not to mention Nick Jr

[rsborg]

Man, this is going to have some non-DVR-sporting parents in a bind, without their 30min - 1hr of free time everyday to set their kids in front of the TV while they chill or take care of housework.

Re:Not to mention Nick Jr

[SleazyRidr]

You only let your kid watch 30mins-1hour of TV a day? What kind of inhuman monster are you?

And nothing of value would be lost.

[nataflux]

Its not like Cable TV has any real programming, its all advertisements.

Because its gone sentient.

[Anonymous Coward]

Forget V'ger, this is the real thing. Where's that sat killer the Chinese developed? We could use it right now.

Wow ...

[garry_g]

... compared to the possible consequences of GPS degradation, losing your TV signals is soooo much more far-reaching ... who could imagine living without TV?

NHL

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope this doesn't affect the hockey playoffs.

Could galaxy 15 knock out other sattelites ?

[Anonymous Coward]

I was wondering if someone could seriously answer if Galaxy 15 could continue drifting and knock out other satellites as well ?

NOT NEWS

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is this even posted as an article? It was specifically mentioned in the first article which this summary referenced, and there was also a good deal of discussion about that topic. In fact, there was more discussion about the TV programming than the GPS (well, at least last time I checked it).

This whole story needs to be modded as "Redundant" as well as "No Shit, Sherlock".

I mean really now, what kind of Tool would post this type of crap in the first place?

Posted by kdawson

Doh!

F-16

[Anonymous Coward]

fire at will pls
just point and click away
then flames it

That would be _bad_

[RichiH]

Not having accurate information for planes would be inconvenient.. But if TV takes a hit.. OH MY $DEITY!!!111

No! Auugh!

[tgd]

Lost finale is on the 23rd.

*starts to hyperventilate*

AMC?

[danger42]

AMC?

Noone watches that channel in my house anyway.

Sabotage

[Anonymous Coward]

It is just sabotage. It coincides perfectly with the oil platform sabotage in the gulf of Mexico. That's not even to mention Iran will have operable nuclear warheads well before we have a president willing to promote a contingency plan for such happenings. This is going to get interesting in a VERY bad way very quickly.

Optimism

[Anonymous Coward]

I like your optimism. We should all think like this!

Where Are the Thunderbirds?

[Virtucon]

Damnit, where are the Thunderbirds when we need them? I thought they had like what, Thunderbird 5? It could go out there and take care of that rogue satellite.

I've seen them go and rescue folks headed for the Sun! http://www.bookmice.net/darkchilde/thunder/ep4.html
Just get them on the phone!

Wait, TB 5 was the orbiting space station. TB 3 was the Single Stage Rocket.

obviously the work of evil hulu aliens

[Anonymous Coward]

after all, their subscription fees are (according to rumor) supposed to go into effect May 24, ne?