Halo 2 Online Preservation Effort Ends

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Halo 2 Online Preservation Effort Ends

Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday May 11, 2010 @04:48PM from the good-show dept.

A couple weeks ago, we discussed news that some dedicated Halo 2 fans were keeping the game's multiplayer alive after support for online play was dropped. Now, a few days shy of a month after support ended, the last users have been knocked off the server. "[A user named] Apache N4SIR outlasted everyone. 'May 11th @ 0158hrs I was FORCEFULLY REMOVED!!' he wrote on the forums at Bungie.net. 'I thought I'd be the one turning off the lights but that was done for me. Good night everyone, my Elite needs a rest.' His last comrade in arms, Agent Windex, was still signed on, as spotted by Kotaku at 4 p.m. US Pacific Time on May 10, but their adventure, which began on April 15, ended after Windex announced 21 minutes later that he had been removed from play and Apache N4SIR suffered a similar fate hours later, as he described in his post."

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and... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 16:51 · Score: 5, Funny

And nothing of value was lost.
1. Re:and... by BadAnalogyGuy · 2010-05-11 16:58 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  Maybe for you. But luckily you aren't the arbitrator of value for everyone.
  Fuck you Microsoft. I can't believe (wait, yes I can) that you would continue to screw over your loyal customers.
  I've had it. I'm switching all my machines to Linux today.
  See ya'll in 24 hours.
2. Re:and... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 17:05 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Really hoping that's sarcasm... I would MUCH rather see updates and innovations added to XBL than having to be backwards compatible. Microsoft is actually moving in the RIGHT direction this time.
  BTW, you can still play Halo 2:
  
  Using XLink or XBConnect. Both of which are basically just VPNs that trick your xbox into thinking your buddy across the pond (or down the road) is on your LAN.
  
  On Windows Vista (Halo 2 PC)
  
  Local Splitscreen.
  
  Better yet, why not try something new?!
3. Re:and... by Kitkoan · 2010-05-11 17:10 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Halo 2 was released in 2004, its now 2010. Thats almost 6 years. Don't know of many (if any) console games that have had that much online support made for them. I don't feel thats really screwing over your loyal customers as have some of the longest online multiplayer support. And there is a time for a business to have to cut legacy support.
  
  --
  Attention... all grammer nazi"s! Is they're anything; wrong with: my post,
4. Re:and... by billsayswow · 2010-05-11 17:17 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  Oh, I know you from somewhere... You were the guy who said he'd move to Canada after every election that didn't go your way. You're the guy who said you were switching to satellite after your cable provider raised the prices again. You were going to switch to Verizon after AT&T charged you a lousy service fee, take the City to court after they didn't plow your street well, never use UPS again because your package was damaged, never eat at McDonalds again since your burger had pickles on it, never go into a Walmart because you couldn't return your opened copy of Madden '96, switch to ATI because you got a DOA NVidia card, and always buy Durex because you had a trojan rip on you once, and now you have a kid that you're inflicting your empty-threated wisdom upon. Nice to see you again. Though you said you'd never speak to me for as long as you'd live.
5. Re:and... by trawg · 2010-05-11 17:20 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  They don't need to provide legacy support for old games though - if their games are created in such a way that users can run their own game servers, someone else can do it as long as there's someone that still wants to play the game.
  As others have pointed out in this discussion, PC games from as far back as Quake (1996) are still perfectly playable because it uses an 'open', dedicated server based framework for its multiplayer services.
  Sadly, the PC world is catching up to the console world in this respect - because developers are less interested in having you play their game for more than ten years. They don't see the advantages in having a game that lives that long and instead want you to continue buying the next version every year or so. Unfortunately for people that care about having good games that will last for a really long time (like me), this model is proving super-successful.
6. Re:and... by MBGMorden · 2010-05-11 17:25 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Anyone else feel it sad when people reference a whole six years as an eternity, after which a product should surely be dropped?
  Stuff used to be made to last a lifetime. I have an old double-barreled shotgun my granddad passed down to me. My mother has dresses, dolls, and other heirlooms passed down to her by her mother. Most of this stuff is 50-75 years old, and I envision it to be around a lot longer. Even in content - I've got movies and such that are as old as I am (original release Star Wars VHS for example). Yet with this type of thing, well, it's SIX years old. It's obvious that you shouldn't expect to keep using it.
  
  --
  "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
7. Re:and... by badboy_tw2002 · 2010-05-11 17:26 · Score: 1
  
  Halo2 can be played peer-peer. Microsoft is shutting down (has shutdown?) the original Xbox live service presumably to retire legacy support in order to make it easier to bring out new features (I'm guessing its not a hardware cost since most have since migrated to 360, XBL2). So this was more about supporting the matchmaking and whatnot. I can't remember if Halo2 supports LAN or not, but presumably you could play that way, or on one of the internet tunnels like Halo1 had when it came out.
8. Re:and... by DirtyCanuck · 2010-05-11 17:28 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  XBConnect is pretty sweet.
  Allowed playing of the Original Halo online before Xboxlive existed.
  Also allowed for playing of Halo 2 online well before the official release date
  Not to mention all the modded Halo versions that can only be played online via a VPN
  VPN allowed for much more freedom with regards to game choices and banning of cheating players.
  Once again the community compiled something more useful than the locked down mainstream service.
9. Re:and... by TubeSteak · 2010-05-11 17:30 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Halo 2 was released in 2004, its now 2010. Thats almost 6 years. Don't know of many (if any) console games that have had that much online support made for them. I don't feel thats really screwing over your loyal customers as have some of the longest online multiplayer support. And there is a time for a business to have to cut legacy support.
  I'm still playing Halo's online multiplayer on my PC and that's a Microsoft/Bungie game.
  What makes consoles so special?
  
  --
  [Fuck Beta]
  o0t!
10. Re:and... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 17:30 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  or maybe these idiot console gamers should switch (back) to pc gaming where all that stuff works that way already. those things you list shouldn't be extra features that need to be hacked in. they should work that way to begin with!! fuck paywalls and gardens!
11. Re:and... by Mashiki · 2010-05-11 17:35 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  What makes consoles so special?
  It's easier to screw owners over.
  
  --
  Om, nomnomnom...
12. Re:and... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 17:38 · Score: 0
  
  Umm... what? Setting aside my disappointment that Apache N4SIR didn't get to to do his sign-off vid, Microsoft said that they'd be killing Halo 2 on April 15th. But instead of shutting down all the game servers - which they could have done - they just prevented people from joining. So Microsoft humored the Noble 14 for 26 days past Halo 2's supposed death. Shutting down Halo 2 might be screwing over folks (on the other hand, having to keep Xbox Live backwards-compatible was impeding the addition of some features, like being able to friend more than 100 people [one of the more famous things held back, though personally not a big deal since I tend to unfriend people I haven't played with in a while]). Removing Apache N4SIR... don't think so.
13. Re:and... by iamhassi · 2010-05-11 17:41 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  First they take multiplayer away after 6 yrs, next it will be DRM disabling of single player after 6 yrs... then 5... 4.... 3.... or whenever the sequal comes out. Slippery slope, and I'm sure some kid will say "Come on that game is 2 yrs old and they have a sequal they have to stop support someday!". No, they didn't, they designed the game so multiplayer support could be shut-off and use that as an excuse.
  
  --
  my karma will be here long after I'm gone
14. Re:and... by Maxo-Texas · 2010-05-11 17:44 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Monopoly, Risk, Axis & Allies, Diplomacy (50 years old).
  Yea-- hard to believe ANYONE would want to play a game 7 years after it was published.
  Games Workshop is getting bad about this (as is Magic the Gathering).
  Sure- you can play on your own, but convention play requires the current figures and rules. Which are arbitrarily changed about every 24-36 months.
  Business wants you to RENT everything- no ownership.
  
  --
  She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
15. Re:and... by Kitkoan · 2010-05-11 17:46 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Anyone else feel it sad when people reference a whole six years as an eternity, after which a product should surely be dropped?
  Stuff used to be made to last a lifetime. I have an old double-barreled shotgun my granddad passed down to me. My mother has dresses, dolls, and other heirlooms passed down to her by her mother. Most of this stuff is 50-75 years old, and I envision it to be around a lot longer. Even in content - I've got movies and such that are as old as I am (original release Star Wars VHS for example). Yet with this type of thing, well, it's SIX years old. It's obvious that you shouldn't expect to keep using it.
  And how much of it is still supported by the manufacturer? Most items you can buy and have been able to buy for decades normally are supported by the manufacturer for 30 to 90 days after purchase. Most products you can buy are only made to have usage for a year then its dropped by the maker in favor of the next years model and most won't help you with a product thats 2+ years old since it's no long for sale.
  As for the Halo 2, while some support for the product has been dropped on what is technically something made obsolete (the XBox), the product still works, it hasn't been made non-functioning. It can still be used for multi-player games through options like system link. If people want it enough then the homebrew community will figure out a way.
  
  --
  Attention... all grammer nazi"s! Is they're anything; wrong with: my post,
16. Re:and... by DirtyCanuck · 2010-05-11 17:49 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Unfortunately the future of PC gaming through traditional (dedicated server) means is in jeopardy as far as mainstream titles are concerned.
  PC games used to have an online edge because even if a game was created across many platforms the PC game would have Modding capabilities as well as dedicated servers. This edge would continue as games would become timeless and online play would only be limited by community support rather than some douche behind a desk crunching numbers.
  Unfortunately this differentiation has been eroded by the idea that simplification sells.
  SOURCE: http://modernwarfare2.infinityward.com/
17. Re:and... by Kitkoan · 2010-05-11 17:57 · Score: 1
  
  Unfortunately for people that care about having good games that will last for a really long time (like me), this model is proving super-successful.
  Its not that it's proving successful, its more of a lack of options. Sure you can still play your older games and wish that the newer ones would do that same in being usable as long as you wish, but what would the alternative be? Not buy the new games and then you are left playing the same games over and over. And I don't think your looking at this in the right angle. Hardware fails and that will render all these old tech and games obsolete no matter how much you don't want to lose these games. Systems like NES, SNES, Genesis, they are mostly gone aside from a rare special-built system but then the games are going away to, as time really does kill all things material. And so people wanting to still enjoy these old games have rose to the challenge of making these games still playable. Now we have game roms and emulators, programs like DosBox. These show that the games will remain playable, granted not in their original form, but they are still there and still playable. And it's not limited to games that came on a cartridge/disc as I've played some games that were stream download only.
  
  --
  Attention... all grammer nazi"s! Is they're anything; wrong with: my post,
18. Re:and... by Kitkoan · 2010-05-11 18:02 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  First they take multiplayer away after 6 yrs, next it will be DRM disabling of single player after 6 yrs... then 5... 4.... 3.... or whenever the sequal comes out. Slippery slope, and I'm sure some kid will say "Come on that game is 2 yrs old and they have a sequal they have to stop support someday!". No, they didn't, they designed the game so multiplayer support could be shut-off and use that as an excuse.
  Here's an idea then if thats how you look at these things. Don't buy consoles. Buy PC only games. Sure they can remove these functions as well, but as with hacks and cracks and whatever else you can think of, people can and will find a way to get around these problems when they are on a computer. That way you'll never had to really worry about these issues as they only become minor setbacks and never total problems.
  
  --
  Attention... all grammer nazi"s! Is they're anything; wrong with: my post,
19. Re:and... by sjames · 2010-05-11 18:16 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  It's all part of the rentification. At one time when you bought something you owned it. You could expect to pass it on to your children one day. Your wealth would tend to increase over time.
  Now, it's all essentially a multi-year rental. Even major appliances may be expected to conk out in a decade or so and become landfill (yeah, that's really green!). You may rest assured that replacement parts will not be available should you decide to try to fix it or they will only be available to the brand X authorized repair shop that will (because of the costs to become authorized) charge you nearly as much as the cost of a new unit to replace the $20 part (that cost $2 to make and $8 to ship from China). Yeah, perhaps you were thinking one of those fancy new ones would be nice anyway, but it might have been nice to sell the old one to someone who needed a good deal on a basic appliance.
20. Re:and... by trawg · 2010-05-11 18:17 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Its not that it's proving successful, its more of a lack of options
  Right, but the reason there's a lack of options (for, say, dedicated server-based multiplayer PC games) is because we're seeing less of a focus on creating dedicated server based games. There is more focus on /controlling/ the multiplayer infrastructure now - and one reason is probably so they can simply turn it off when they want you to upgrade to the latest version.
  
  Hardware fails and that will render all these old tech and games obsolete no matter how much you don't want to lose these games. Systems like NES, SNES, Genesis, they are mostly gone aside from a rare special-built system but then the games are going away to, as time really does kill all things material.
  
  Those are all examples of closed systems though. Nintendo don't want people thinking SNES or NES - they want them thinking Wii and Wii games and DS!
  
  Now we have game roms and emulators, programs like DosBox. These show that the games will remain playable, granted not in their original form, but they are still there and still playable
  The problem with this analogy though is that multiplayer games have the game server component - and reverse engineering that doesn't seem like something people do very often.
  It's the server component that I'm talking about in my above post. If that is released as a free download, game developers can simply forget about supporting their games online and let "the community" do it for them for free.
21. Re:and... by trawg · 2010-05-11 18:19 · Score: 1
  
  So this was more about supporting the matchmaking and whatnot.
  Right - but with an open dedicated server based model, /they can't take this away/, because people can just create their own matchmaking systems. Often ones that will be superior to the original because they can be done on a per-community basis.
22. Re:and... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 18:32 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  There is a difference between peer to peer lan play, and an online system with pickup games.
  I run a battlenet server for local diablo2 and warcraft3 players that has about 15 people online at any given time. this is great considering that the local isp offers 5mb links between local users but only has about 10mb shared for all of us to use.
  We also have a few quake servers and are running a jedi outcast server that gets some frequent use.
  Try that without a full-blown dedicated server.
23. Re:and... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 18:34 · Score: 0
  
  yeah.. too bad. that's what kept my interest in gaming going.. now that' it's basically dead thanks to apathy of the consumer it's time to find another hobby.
24. Re:and... by Grimbleton · 2010-05-11 18:40 · Score: 1
  
  I imagine if you sent a 40 year old shotgun in to Mossberg for repairs they'd be able to do it with very little issue and have it back to you in under a month.
25. Re:and... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 18:40 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  And how much of it is still supported by the manufacturer? Most items you can buy and have been able to buy for decades normally are supported by the manufacturer for 30 to 90 days after purchase. Most products you can buy are only made to have usage for a year then its dropped by the maker in favor of the next years model and most won't help you with a product thats 2+ years old since it's no long for sale.
  Bullshit.
  I have a camera that has a lifetime warranty from cannon.
  I have a sewing machine that's 85 fucking years old that i can still get new parts for.
  I have a tv with a 10 year warranty that just expired.
  10 years ago it was unusual for a product warranty to be for less than a year, now I have to spend hundreds of dollars to get more than that.
  Even then, find me a technical part or a piece electronics without at least a one year warranty.
  I can guarantee it costs less than a hundred dollars, and honestly you get what you pay for.
  Thats the main issue, people want it cheap, and the idiots want it now.
  Cheap, Fast, Good. Pick two.
26. Re:and... by RoboRay · 2010-05-11 18:43 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  That's why no serious PC gamer seriously considers MW2 for purchase.
  The sky is not falling. The beauty of PCs is you don't need anyone's permission to do what you want with your hardware. Multiplayer gaming where the customers are in control is not going away.
27. Re:and... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 18:55 · Score: 0
  
  A good counterexample of manufacturer support for their products is the Craftsman line of hand tools (not affiliated, just impressed). Those cheeky bastards are 17 years away from a full century of no-receipt-needed, no-questions-asked support. Granted, hand tools tend to last forever anyways, but I just wanted to point out at least one company with the balls to warrant their products until the collapse of civilization. In my opinion, there should be more companies like that.
28. Re:and... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 18:55 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  the control isn't...yet, but the games are going away. the ones that do get released do not come with mod tools or dedicated servers or whatever relevant tools are needed to keep the game going post support.
29. Re:and... by hairyfeet · 2010-05-11 19:43 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  And let us say, just for the sake of argument, that all the major game companies decided to be pricks and got together and quit making new PC games tomorrow. How many of you actually have ALL the good PC games, hmmm? Hell I'm still finding great new mods for Freelancer and that game came out 7 years ago!
  If the game company acts like a prick, don't buy from them. Instead vote with your dollars and buy from somebody that treats you decent like good old games that don't fill your PC with DRM or make you phone home just to play. This is one of the reasons I refuse to give up PC gaming and mess with consoles. If MSFT, or Ubisoft, or any other game company acts like a total douche I can take my business elsewhere, and there is plenty of products to choose from, but if for example I'd have went with PS3 and wanted to keep my OtherOS and still game? Tough shit, buy another console.
  With consoles ONE company owns the keys to the kingdom, and it is their way or nothing. With the PC I can buy big games or indy, new or classics, and have a wealth of places to shop at. EA killing online multiplayer on the consoles when the sequel comes out is just a glimpse of the console's future. It will be pay and pay and pay some more if you actually want to get the full on and off line gameplay. Finally with DLC I'm predicting the PHBs at the major game companies will pretty much destroy new games on both consoles and PC, by chopping them into pieces and nickel and diming the player to death to "maximize profit potential" so a new game will end up costing you $100+ just to get to play the whole thing.
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
30. Re:and... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 20:07 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  You forgot about the various online TCP/IP multiplayer Doom mods. A game from 1993 that has been updated through the years and still has good mods coming out for out. You can't say that for today's games.
31. Re:and... by icebraining · 2010-05-11 20:11 · Score: 1
  
  Dedicated server doesn't have to mean some machine in a data center. I have hosted plenty of games with my home server.
  Besides, you can have *both*, like most FPSs.
  
  --
  Dilbert RSS feed
32. Re:and... by icebraining · 2010-05-11 20:21 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, my grandmother still has a working 40 year fridge. You know what? It uses much more energy than ours, and it's much smaller.
  Besides, I don't know about there, but here appliances are recycled. In fact, when you buy a new one, the shop is *obligated* to take care of your old one and make sure it's recycled.
  It's very often less "green" to continue using an old appliance (much less efficient) than buying a new one, even wasting the energy used to recycle the old and manufacture the new.
  Another example is my P4, which uses a buttload of watts and it's much less powerful than my current laptop. Should I waste 250W to play a game, when I can do it using 40W in my laptop? That doesn't sound "green" to me.
  
  --
  Dilbert RSS feed
33. Re:and... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 20:46 · Score: 0
  
  Sadly, the PC world is catching up to the console world in this respect - because developers are less interested in having you play their game for more than ten years. They don't see the advantages in having a game that lives that long and instead want you to continue buying the next version every year or so. Unfortunately for people that care about having good games that will last for a really long time (like me), this model is proving super-successful.
  Many developers can't even make a game that would manage to hold your interest for more than a single playthrough, if that, let alone ten years. These same developers who are producing shovel-ware crap are also unlikely to even be able to code a reliable dedicated server. Expecting them to rise above their level of competence is unrealistic.
34. Re:and... by SCPRedMage · 2010-05-11 20:56 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Your argument is invalid because my hat is a duck.
  
  Wait, that's not right...
  
  Your argument is invalid because they didn't specifically shut down Halo 2 multiplayer, they shut down the original XBox Live servers. They did this for a legitimate reason too; the legacy system was holding back the modern Live service, applying specific limitations that couldn't be overcome without shutting it down like this. Hell, a minority of users have been constantly complaining about the 100 person limit on Live friends list, which was, surprise, caused by the legacy Live system. People complained about it time and again, and every time, Microsoft responded with "we can't do that without shutting down the original Live!"
  
  As much as you'd like to believe "the man" is out to get you, this wasn't done for "forced obsolescence".
  
  --
  My sig can beat up your sig.
35. Re:and... by jack2000 · 2010-05-11 20:59 · Score: 1
  They don't do it very often but it's been done and it will be done:
  bnetd
  PvPGN - Supports Diablo 1,2,LoD, Star Craft:bw, Warcraft 3 and it's expansion.
  PvPGN even supports westwood games! Command & Conquer: Tiberian Sun, Command & Conquer: Red Alert 2, Command & Conquer: Yuri's Revenge.
  Now it supports two dune games and NOX even!
  It's quite a piece of work.
  MMO servers have also been reverse engineered traditionally:
  
  Lineage servers.
  
  WoW servers
  
  MU online (when it was all the rage)
  
  Countless others...
  Hell, games that didn't have multiplayer have been made to have multiplayer:
  
  Kailera enables you to play Arcade and other console games(each with it's own emulator like mame etc.) online! I find this rather amazing where we've come.
  
  Fallout 2
  
  GTA3, VC,San Andreas
  
  So i have a trust in "the community". People want to play multiplayer and there's nothing that the publishers of the games can do to stop them.
36. Re:and... by gmhowell · 2010-05-11 21:30 · Score: 1
  
  Dunno about Mossberg, but I know that in the 90's, Beretta did this with a handgun that was more than 40 years old.
  
  --
  Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
37. Re:and... by delinear · 2010-05-11 21:52 · Score: 1
  
  As an "idiot console gamer", I'm more than happy with the compromise. I play more SP than MP these days anyway (lack of time to learn maps and submit to multiple humiliations to learn the nuances of a game that I'd only get to play a couple of hours a week) and I rarely play old console games, I'll fire up a PC emulator if I need to play really old suff. For me, the trade-off of not having to deal with driver issues and patch issues and DRM issues and OS issues and the hardware arms race of constantly upgrading graphics cards, memory, cpu, etc means the minor inconvenience of only being able to play old games over a LAN (or with some hacking at that point, which would still be far less frequent than all the hacking I have to do to get things running well on a PC) is more than worth it. YMMV, of course. Now, if they started expiring games after only a couple of years I might feel more cheated by this.
38. Re:and... by delinear · 2010-05-11 21:54 · Score: 1
  
  Just to add, I also have a half decent gaming rig which I also use to play TF2/CS:S and a handful of other stuff that just seems to feel more natural on the PC, but the vast majority of my gaming time is console now.
39. Re:and... by delinear · 2010-05-11 22:09 · Score: 1
  
  There are already "hacks and cracks" to get around the issue discussed in TFA. Even on PC I'd be surprised to see official support (in the form of running a server, they might still throw out the odd patch if enough people complain but even that's rare) on a product that was released 6 years ago. Most of the support comes from community developed tools and community maintained servers. I don't really see what the big fuss is about - sure if they did start reducing the expiry period I'd be the first to complain, but this was a game on the original XBOX, even the platform has been obsolete for years.
40. Re:and... by delinear · 2010-05-11 22:15 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  And what people seem to forget is, even though we all like to see MS as the evil overlords, they did some pretty pioneering stuff in the early landscape of commercial console online gaming with Live. Of course, as a first cut it's full of issues, and considering people can still play these older games using alternative community developed means, I don't see an issue with MS retiring that legacy service in order to improve their current offering. It's not like they've just arbritrarily set a limit on how long you can play online games, but similarly in the console world you can't expect them to support a system which was developed for a previous iteration of their platform indefinitely. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to bash MS, so I can't understand why so many people are jumping on this as a reason - should we really hold up the future development of online gaming so that 7 people can continue to play Halo 2 forever?
41. Re:and... by magamiako1 · 2010-05-11 23:00 · Score: 1
  
  "Take your business elsewhere". And it would mean nothing to any of those companies in the end. It might mean something to the guy that sold 500 copies of his game, but you taking your WHOLE $50 somewhere else when a game is selling 4,000,000 copies isn't really going to affect anything.
42. Re:and... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 23:35 · Score: 0
  
  you aren't the arbitrator of value
  Teh arbiter?
43. Re:and... by DarkOx · 2010-05-12 00:04 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  You are operating under the assumption that you did not put more energy and resources into the manufacture of the new equipment or that it was going to be done anyway. Now if you really needed a new computer to do something you could not do before that holds up. You should always use the newer more energy efficent model. On the otherhand if that P4 was doing everything you needed it to do the truely green thing would probably have been to never create a market for that new computer and therefore avoid its constuction in the first place.
  There is more to greeness than just carbon emmissions; people seem to have forgotten this! Losts of really awful chemicals get used to manufacture chips; computers are full plastics that don't biodegrade and are made from limited petrol resources. Oh and on the carbon front manufacture of the thing probably consumed quite a lot of engergy all told; possibly years worth of the delta between the efficencies of the two units; and released lots of carbon.
  People whine and cry about efficent this but really most of it is feel good nonsense so people can create an excuse to make and have new toys. The disposability of our society is doing more harm to our enviornment than anything else. Which is not to say that when we do make new things we should not make them as efficent as can be. Its also true that old things which can be retrofited to improve them possibly should not be. Adding more insulation to an existing house probably makes all kinds of sense. Replacing something like an old boiler where almost everything can be recycled might be good too. Retering a perfectly servicable computer or automobile probably not so much.
  
  --
  Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
44. Re:and... by d3ac0n · 2010-05-12 00:06 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  And what if 3,500,000 people take their $50 elsewhere? What then?
  This is why I don't own a console, and probably never will. A console doesn't give me enough control, and is nothing but a money pit. Far more so than a PC.
  Control is what it comes down to. I insist on controlling the equipment I own. Excepting my Cable box (which I'm basically renting) I have ultimate authority over all electronics in my house. Nobody else can tell me how to use it., and nobody can remotely disable any of it's capabilities.
  Think about it: What good are those old X-boxes now? You can't play online with them, and Single player was NEVER very impressive on them. They don't have HD capabilities, so even XBMC isn't useful anymore. They are junk. Not even useful for nostalgia's sake like an old Atari, NES, or SNES. And the old games? Money down the drain. Hundreds, possibly thousands of dollars per person just gone.
  With PC games, even if my PC dies and I have to build a new one, I can still play my old games. Even if I change OSes I can still play most of them because community groups are porting them over. So even though I've changed PC's multiple times since MW4 came out, I can still bust it out and play it, any time I want. (and I do. MW4 was and is a great game.)
  Long live PC gaming.
  
  --
  Official Heretic from the "Church of Global Warming". Proven right thanks to whistle blowers. AGW = Flat Earth Theory
45. Re:and... by NoSleepDemon · 2010-05-12 00:28 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  here here! Mod parent up! This is why I own a PC, heck, I even have Duke Nukem 3D on mine. I owned and still own a PC for the exact reasons that the parent listed. In fact, I grew up around making games and mods and levels for Doom all the way to Half-Life and ended up getting a degree in programming games, moving to Canada and soon with a few more portfolio pieces I'll be starting my own company. What hasn't changed through all this? The fact that I will always be a PC gamer. It is such a shame that younger generations will be introduced to 'gaming' in its current, pathetic watered down state. They will learn nothing from hacking the game's config files, nothing from building new levels, nothing from collaborating with mod projects and nothing from programming their own game or exercising their imagination. All they will learn is how to put a disc into a drive and to press the big green X button.
  
  Long live PC gaming indeed.
46. Re:and... by NoSleepDemon · 2010-05-12 00:31 · Score: 1
  
  The problem is that with consoles holding back the gaming market, the hardware arms race has all but ended. Most games now start as console games and are ported to the PC, or at the very least, are targeted toward a console platform as well meaning that the game also has to run on it's dated hardware.
47. Re:and... by CGordy · 2010-05-12 00:35 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Hasselblad recently brought out a digital camera back for their old film cameras, which is compatible with all their V-system cameras, which they made from 1957. They include software which corrects for lens errors for every lens they've ever made.
48. Re:and... by Provocateur · 2010-05-12 00:39 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  I don't see an issue with MS retiring
  Well, they could have had the decency to post a warning in-game:
  This will be your Last Game. No respawn, no requests for
  immediate evac, just shoot to kill, and the last medikits
  (whatever they're called) are up for grabs. So long, and
  Microsoft would like to honor your loyalty by engraving your
  frags on a monument that sadly no one will see. Don't worry, it
  will be an easter egg in our next edition of Excel: The
  Spreadsheet. When that gets ported to Xbox, that is.
  
  --
  WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
49. Re:and... by Pojut · 2010-05-12 00:44 · Score: 1
  
  Pretty much. I played through MW2's single player campaign, and it was pretty good...but I haven't logged a single minute in multiplayer.
  
  --
  Living With a Nerd
50. Re:and... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-12 00:48 · Score: 0
  
  They would also charge you an arm and 3 legs for the work, in most cases the repairs would probably cost more than a current model. But really that is completely irrelevant, you are not dealing with a static piece of goods here, Xbox live is a service that costs money to keep running and is dependent on having enough users to support it.
  
  Back to your shotgun reference, if mossberg only repaired 40 year old shotguns I think you would find they would either discontinue the service or go bankrupt.
51. Re:and... by adamofgreyskull · 2010-05-12 00:49 · Score: 1
  
  I have no idea why this is modded funny.
52. Re:and... by Pingmaster · 2010-05-12 01:16 · Score: 1
  
  That's where you are wrong. It's not as much about 'hurting' the game company as it is about having discretion when it comes to purchasing decisions. If Company A overcharges for a product that is limited in functionality and Company B sells a similar product for less money, is fully functional but may not be as polished or up to date, then you must make a decision for yourself, without worrying about the welfare of either company. If they are smart, they will find a way to survive with or without you. If not, then they will sink and another competitor will take their place on the market. I honestly don't give a rat's ass who makes the games I play. If they're good in my opinion, they get my money; if not, I will move on and look for another game that might be worthy. It's as simple as that.
53. Re:and... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-12 01:44 · Score: 0
  
  here here!
  *hear hear!
  At least know the words that you type.
54. Re:and... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-12 01:56 · Score: 0
  
  Go die in a fire, fag.
55. Re:and... by gorzek · 2010-05-12 02:07 · Score: 1
  
  PC makers shoulder much of the blame for the decline in PC gaming. A console isn't a moving target--you know exactly what the hardware will be, barring a few variables (hard disk size, online capability, etc.)
  Today, we have brand-new computers being sold with everything from low-power Atom CPUs with atrocious integrated video cards up to 64-bit quad-core behemoths with 2GB video cards. Where the hell do you target your game? You could aim for the low end, which is going to make your game look like a piece of junk next to any current console. If it's a simple but addictive game, you could sell millions of copies. Or, you can aim for the high end, put the console graphics to shame, but be well aware that your market is going to be very small--not too many people are going to be able to run your game.
  Most games aim for the middle of the road, so they're comparable to what's on a current console, except you have to make sure your system meets all the requirements on the box. And let's face it, Joe Sixpack has no clue how much RAM he has, or even what the difference is between disk space and memory, much less where video memory fits into it. Much less hassle to just buy a console and know the game you're buying will work.
  Gaming has gone mainstream, and game development has gone right along with it. Consoles are the lowest common denominator. Gaming is no longer a niche activity, and it would be downright stupid of game developers and publishers to go after the tiny segment of the market that has souped-up PCs when they could target the PS3 or 360 and just half-ass a PC port. They even come out ahead that way. It's just the PC customers who suffer, and nobody cares about them anyway.
  I say this as a long-time PC gamer. I wish it weren't so, but that's just how the market is these days, and it's never going to go back to the way it was.
  On the other hand, it might be a *good* thing if PC gaming gets taken over by indie developers and small houses aiming at niche markets.
  
  --
  Check out my world simulator thingy.
56. Re:and... by VGPowerlord · 2010-05-12 02:10 · Score: 1
  
  That's why no serious PC gamer seriously considers MW2 for purchase.
  I considered purchasing it.
  But then I realized I want to play using a keyboard and mouse, and I don't know if the PS3 version supports them.
  ...what, you didn't think I was talking about buying the PC version did you? While I am a PC gamer (I clock between 10-20 hours in Team Fortress 2 a week), I certainly wouldn't buy the PC version of MW2.
  
  --
  GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
57. Re:and... by Svartalf · 2010-05-12 02:12 · Score: 1
  
  Ah... But that's only with the "oooh...shiny..." stuff that the big-boys are making. The indie space is doing fine and well- and it's doing so well that it scraped up over a million dollars in a couple of days' time.
  As long as there's programmable computers, there'll be a market. And there'll be machines you can add an application to for some time to come.
  
  --
  I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
58. Re:and... by VGPowerlord · 2010-05-12 02:13 · Score: 1
  
  Xbox live is a service that costs money to keep running and is dependent on having enough users to support it.
  So are Steam and the PlayStation Network (PSN), but oddly enough, those are free to the end user.
  
  --
  GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
59. Re:and... by notbob · 2010-05-12 02:15 · Score: 0
  
  whats funny is I only recently played halo 2 for the first time, having already played halo 3 and such, was kind of funky retro to go back a version, the lack of good graphics really bites lol
60. Re:and... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-12 02:19 · Score: 0
  
  If you're going to be a pedant...
  
  At least know the right words for what you want to type.
  There, I fixed that for you. It's fairly clear that the grandparent poster knew the words he typed- otherwise, he'd have spelled them incorrectly. He just chose wrong words for the meaning he was clearly seeking in his post- which is more a grammatical screwup, much like your own in your posting.
  If you're going to be a grammar and spelling pedant, at least have the decency to BE correct on your part before posting before putting someone else down.
61. Re:and... by Svartalf · 2010-05-12 02:27 · Score: 1
  
  So i have a trust in "the community". People want to play multiplayer and there's nothing that the publishers of the games can do to stop them.
  Wanna bet big money on that? BNetd's no longer maintained by the original developers, who LOST BIG on the suit that Vivendi filed against their happy backsides. Sure it's lurking around- but if Activision so much as smells a big open rollout of that thing like it did previously, you can bet your bottom dollar that they will sue again over it.
  The only reason you've got the server engines you've got is that either the server framework was open sourced or the company doesn't give a damn about you making multiplayer or matchmaker servers. If they did care, there's quite a bit they can do to stop them. BNetd's developers found out the hard way about that. If you've never been on the wrong side of a lawsuit, you wouldn't know and you'd be inclined to mouth off like this- but you'd better be sure of your legal standing and have deep pockets before doing so, otherwise someone might show you how wrong you can be about things.
  
  --
  I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
62. Re:and... by Hatta · 2010-05-12 02:28 · Score: 1
  
  You're not kidding. I just picked up X-Com UFO Defense. This is a game that could keep me busy all year, if not longer. And that's just the first title.
  
  --
  Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
63. Re:and... by Svartalf · 2010-05-12 02:30 · Score: 1
  
  Heh... MOST gun manufacturers, if they're still in business and are either making the parts or can make them will service a gun, decades after it's made, for a price. Well, every one of them except the people making saturday night specials, that is.
  
  --
  I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
64. Re:and... by Svartalf · 2010-05-12 02:32 · Score: 1
  
  Back to your shotgun reference, if mossberg only repaired 40 year old shotguns I think you would find they would either discontinue the service or go bankrupt.
  That would depend entirely upon the price they're charging for the repairs and whether people would be willing to pay it. If you've framed it in right, there's a business there that'd be viable for a while yet to come. It's just that businesses rarely frame it in right these days.
  
  --
  I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
65. Re:and... by Hatta · 2010-05-12 02:33 · Score: 1
  
  That same $50 means a lot more to a little indie game developer who is in the business of giving gamers what they want, instead of telling gamers what they want and delivering crap. I don't care if I hurt EA or Ubisoft or whoever. I care about helping the little guy.
  
  --
  Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
66. Re:and... by jack2000 · 2010-05-12 02:37 · Score: 1
  
  Lets see them sue me from over half the world about something that's not criminally offensive where i live.
67. Re:and... by Hatta · 2010-05-12 02:41 · Score: 1
  
  Think about it: What good are those old X-boxes now? You can't play online with them, and Single player was NEVER very impressive on them. They don't have HD capabilities, so even XBMC isn't useful anymore. They are junk. Not even useful for nostalgia's sake like an old Atari, NES, or SNES. And the old games? Money down the drain. Hundreds, possibly thousands of dollars per person just gone.
  Utter bullshit. I never played my Xbox online, so I don't miss it at all. There are plenty of good single player games on the system. I haven't played half the worthwhile single player games yet. They also serve very well as media players if you don't care about HD (I don't), and quick and easy MAME boxes. My Xbox is every bit as useful today as the day I bought it.
  
  --
  Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
68. Re:and... by Miseph · 2010-05-12 02:43 · Score: 1
  
  So if pirate it, will they miss my $50 then?
  
  --
  Try not to take me more seriously than I take myself.
69. Re:and... by JTsyo · 2010-05-12 03:06 · Score: 1
  
  Why not design the game to scale with the hardware available? Yea, it'll take time to develop but the end results are better than sticking to either end or the middle.
70. Re:and... by gorzek · 2010-05-12 03:11 · Score: 1
  
  It's hard and adds development time, which is a tough sell when you have a deadline and budget to meet.
  
  --
  Check out my world simulator thingy.
71. Re:and... by tophermeyer · 2010-05-12 03:33 · Score: 1
  
  In addition to the business brought in from repairing older shotguns, the manufacturer can expect to sell more new guns based on their reputation for continued support and service.
  That happens to be one of the big draws of buying from the old school gun makers, they do tend to support their products for a long long time. The Mossberg 500 is a fantastic example. It is probably the best selling shotgun in the world, and the basic design has been unchanged for literally 50 years. People buy them because they know that their grandchildren will be able to send the gun back for service and repairs.
  Back on topic; given that computing technology and entertainment trends are changing wildly, I have a hard time believing that anybody expects that every new smash hit multiplayer video game will remain relevant for 50 years. Every now and then you hit on something like Quake that the community supports in perpetuity, but it seems unreasonable to expect that id Software should be responsible for maintaining it.
72. Re:and... by icebraining · 2010-05-12 03:34 · Score: 1
  
  Well, I had to replace it because it was failing all over the place. Bad ram, bad disk, bad motherboard. The few components working fine (DVD drives, screen, mouse+keyboard) will be reused in my new PC.
  
  There is more to greeness than just carbon emissions; people seem to have forgotten this! Lots of really awful chemicals get used to manufacture chips; computers are full plastics that don't biodegrade and are made from limited petrol resources.
  If the computers are recycled, is that such a big problem? Aren't plastics recyclable? I sure hope so, I carefully split all the plastic packages for recycling.
  Yes, it uses energy to recycle them too, I know.
  
  Oh and on the carbon front manufacture of the thing probably consumed quite a lot of energy all told; possibly years worth of the delta between the efficencies of the two units; and released lots of carbon.
  Notice it's quite a big difference, more than 80%.
  
  --
  Dilbert RSS feed
73. Re:and... by Schlacht · 2010-05-12 03:59 · Score: 1
  
  @hairy
  I totally agree in every way. But I really love to kick back on the sofa and "play lazy" than playingbso serious and focused at my desk. I really need to invest in the proper set up to like a little shuttle box hooked up to the tv with wireless I/o devices.
  Thanks for the comment!
  
  --
  rm -rf ms/*
74. Re:and... by lymond01 · 2010-05-12 04:16 · Score: 1
  
  Huh...they have Master of Magic. A truly "good old game" surpassed, surprisingly, by Age of Wonders (and especially Age of Wonder II: Shadow Magic). Essentially the same gameplay only better in Age of Wonders. Yes, I was surprised too since MoM was a childhood favorite.
75. Re:and... by Draek · 2010-05-12 04:18 · Score: 1
  
  Here's a better idea: don't buy PC games that are apt to have these functions removed in the first place, don't support scum developers regardless of whether they develop for the PC or consoles.
  
  --
  No problem is insoluble in all conceivable circumstances.
76. Re:and... by billcopc · 2010-05-12 05:16 · Score: 1
  
  I'm more concerned about dishonest modifications. Modding is great, but modding in order to cheat just makes me nerd rage like that time they randomly killed Yar. These days you can't play two rounds in a row without some twelve year old breaking the game with a ridiculous aimbot or teleport glitch. It's no longer a game if you don't follow the few rules.
  At least on a console, most cheaters are limited to lag hacks and controller mods, which are quite annoying but at least the rep system gets them banned on a regular basis.
  
  --
  -Billco, Fnarg.com
77. Re:and... by MikeBabcock · 2010-05-12 05:22 · Score: 1
  
  Meanwhile some online games on the PS3 like Warhawk support LAN play and dedicated server modes just fine.
  
  --
  - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
78. Re:and... by MikeBabcock · 2010-05-12 05:24 · Score: 1
  
  What makes consoles so special?
  If I buy a game for my console, I know it will play properly.
  No such guarantee on the PC.
  I can plan on keeping my console as-is for several years (or ten) and still get new games that will play on it, without worrying about video card upgrades or other silly issues.
  And yes, I game on both the PC and consoles, but the value of consoles seems downright obvious to me.
  
  --
  - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
79. Re:and... by billcopc · 2010-05-12 05:26 · Score: 1
  
  Wake me when you can find 3.5 million people who agree on something, AND have the spine to actually follow through. A lot of people bitch and moan, but when it's time for action, it's all too easy to spend that $50 and indulge in some ethically-bankrupt console entertainment. For every thousand people who bitch on the internet, maybe one or two will actually put actions to their words.
  That's how we wind up with the governments we have. We didn't explicitly want crooked people running our countries, but complacency prevails every time. Why would the comparatively minuscule world of online gaming be any different ?
  
  --
  -Billco, Fnarg.com
80. Re:and... by h4rr4r · 2010-05-12 05:40 · Score: 1
  
  This is not a problem just an opportunity.
  You do not need a souped up PC to beat a PS3 or 360 these days. Any old dell + a $75 video card does that.
81. Re:and... by h4rr4r · 2010-05-12 05:43 · Score: 1
  
  I last played DOOM online in 2010, DOOM was release in 1993. The online multiplayer was added later I think though.
82. Re:and... by h4rr4r · 2010-05-12 05:46 · Score: 1
  
  Their code is in PvPGN, so it is still being used. It is easy enough to avoid using US coders to avoid these lawsuits.
83. Re:and... by h4rr4r · 2010-05-12 05:48 · Score: 1
  
  I just had a Leopold scope my Grandfather bought fixed. They did that free of charge
84. Re:and... by CronoCloud · 2010-05-12 06:29 · Score: 1
  
  but convention play requires the current figures
  Who came up with that idea, requiring miniatures...not every tabletop gamer is an affluent teenager from Shermer Illinois.
  So if someone showed up with a bunch of homemade cardboard chits representing units, they wouldn't be able to play? Someone can say, "if you don't own the $80 Bloodscrim Snotling set, you can't play."
  Fuck em.
85. Re:and... by Wyatt+Earp · 2010-05-12 06:40 · Score: 1
  
  Nope. I sent in a low SN Remington Model 81 in 300 Savage for a trigger job when I inherited it.
  Less than $20 dollars for the repair at Remington.
86. Re:and... by Kielistic · 2010-05-12 06:44 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  If I buy a game for my console, I know it will play properly.
  Unless it's a couple years old of course. Which is, you know, what the article is talking about.
87. Re:and... by sjames · 2010-05-12 06:48 · Score: 1
  
  Odds are, your old PC was "recycled" in the sense that it went in a dump somewhere in the 3rd world where children picked through the lead laden waste scraping off bits of metal for recycling.
  As for the old fridge, I'll bet a retrofit compressor would have made a big difference in it's efficiency IF that were available.
  Meanwhile, the craptastic quality of new fridges caused me to keep an ancient fridge around beyond it's reasonable service life. It was easily 30 years old and parts were hard to come by. The defroster didn't really work anymore. However, I knew that it would easily last longer in it's condition at that point than a brand new one would. It was finally replaced a few years ago because it needed freon or a refit for a newer refrigerant and neither was available.
  Meanwhile, my washing machine has been upgraded to 100% water efficiency in the sense that I extended it's drain line into the garden for irrigation. Parts are long ago unavailable except that I was able to find a replacement cold water valve and solenoid from a similar machine that was discarded when it's transmission failed. Even billing my own time at $100/hr, it was a worthwhile repair. The energy cost of making a new one, bringing it to me, taking away the old unit, and recycling what can be recycled would easily exceed the extra energy it might be using compared to a new unit.
  That repair was nearly 10 years ago, which is very nearly the expected service life of a brand new washing machine.
88. Re:and... by Belial6 · 2010-05-12 06:52 · Score: 1
  
  They did this for a legitimate reason too; the legacy system was holding back the modern Live service, applying specific limitations that couldn't be overcome without shutting it down like this.
  I hear you. Maybe one day humanity will be able to achieve the lofty goal of more than one IP address on the internet, and MS can convince IBM to make a 6th computer for the world.
  
  OK...OK... Yes, that was snarky, but claiming that MS could not run legacy and modern XBox Live servers concurrently is just plain silly.
  
  Of course, they didn't just decide to shut off the servers. That decision was made when XBox Live first went into development. MS made a conscious decision to cut off users as some time to be determined later. Thay paid a lot of people a lot of money to make sure that they could disable your multi-player mode.
89. Re:and... by Maxo-Texas · 2010-05-12 07:16 · Score: 1
  
  If someone showed up with $3k worth of figures from the prior edition, they wouldn't be able to play.
  The $80 Bloodscrim Snotling figure now has it's arms slightly different and has a belt and is a $80 Bloodscrim Snotling Elite.
  I find it hard to believe folks go for this crap but they apparently do.
  Same with Magic-- last I heard it was two editions back- everything else was illegal except for less common special open tournaments.
  
  --
  She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
90. Re:and... by Mashiki · 2010-05-12 07:29 · Score: 1
  
  Because it is. It's a hands, wrapping around your head, weeping type of funny.
  
  --
  Om, nomnomnom...
91. Re:and... by hairyfeet · 2010-05-12 07:58 · Score: 1
  
  Thanks. If you want to build a small HTPC style rig for gaming I would suggest this one as I've built a couple of these for customers and they are pretty easy to work with. Also the bang for the buck is firmly in the AMD camp right now and with a $105 AMD quad you'd have plenty of power for gaming or pretty much anything else. Add a couple of wireless x360 controller and lazy gaming shall ensue.
  Just add a low profile Radeon 5xxx later (I played games like Bioshock I for nearly 3 months on the same onboard chip before getting around to picking up a HD4650) and you have a nice small HTPC that is good for gaming. And don't forget to check out Good Old Games, as I have been buying from them for a couple of months now and they really do treat you like a valued customer. Oh and their older games have a custom built DOSBox that needs NO tweaking, so even on W7 HP X64 it is just install and go, and if you add yourself to their mailing list they have crazy sales at the first and end of the month. I got the ENTIRE descent series, from Descent 1-Freespace 2, with ALL the expansion packs, for less than $20!
  
  --
  ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
92. Re:and... by Khyber · 2010-05-12 08:02 · Score: 1
  
  "Don't know of many (if any) console games that have had that much online support made for them"
  Phantasy Star Online is still rolling for both DC and PS2. Just finished playing a bit of it on the PS2 this morning. The official GC and XBox servers have been long gone, but the others plus a few private servers are still rolling.
  
  --
  Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
93. Re:and... by Khyber · 2010-05-12 08:06 · Score: 1
  
  "Business wants you to RENT everything- no ownership."
  Well, not entirely true, but pretty true in the gaming industry. I'd much rather you own my equipment, as the longer you use it, the better it looks (I haven't had to replace this thing in a decade!) at least for my business.
  
  --
  Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
94. Re:and... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-12 09:07 · Score: 0
  
  This rig I'm playing on is about 6-7 years old, and at 800x600 or 1024x768, played all games with an great framerate with an old Radeon 8500 AGP (that's like 12 years old now). At one point a year ago, I decided to upgrade the videocard at less then cost of a new console, and now I'm playing COD MW2 @ 1650x1050 smoothly, high detail settings.
  I can simulate a console on my PC by reducing my resolution to 1280x720, and setting all modern games to low-medium detail for a uber-PC game. I can get wireless gamepads, hard drives for 50-80% of the cost, and have more potential as a media player AND office productivity device. Sure, some programs require me to click next a few times, but that's not really hard, is it? Video cards come with clear instructions on how to install and is a "one-time" deal.
  Plus my multiplayer games don't shut down "by themselves". =P
95. Re:and... by icebraining · 2010-05-12 09:07 · Score: 1
  
  Odds are, your old PC was "recycled" in the sense that it went in a dump somewhere in the 3rd world where children picked through the lead laden waste scraping off bits of metal for recycling.
  Well, they would be completely illegal, as our law as implemented the EU Directive 2002/95/CE and others, which clearly state they have to recycle and cleanly dispose of dangerous chemicals.
  We have a group of companies called Amb3e that advertises how much "clean" they are making the world.
  
  --
  Dilbert RSS feed
96. Re:and... by SCPRedMage · 2010-05-12 09:45 · Score: 1
  
  They DID post a warning, although I'm not sure if it was ever in-game, having not played Halo 2 in years. They announced they were shutting down the servers on April 15th a few weeks before hand.
  
  --
  My sig can beat up your sig.
97. Re:and... by Maxo-Texas · 2010-05-12 09:54 · Score: 1
  
  It's also "hard goods" manufacturers.
  I have a dishwasher with a "dial" and mechanical steel workings. It's going on 10 years. I've known folks whose lasted 20 years (same for fridge, dryer, washer).
  My friend has a dishwasher with electronics-- it broke after 3 years. The repairman said, "yes these last about 3 years". $250 a pop every time (Cost $399 new).
  You used to be able to buy a washer, stove, refrigerator, etc. and it just bloody ran forever except for belts. These days 10 years-- maybe even less.
  I was looking into hot water heaters and apparently they are way down as well (15 years to about 7).
  
  --
  She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
98. Re:and... by ShakaUVM · 2010-05-12 10:14 · Score: 1
  
  >>As others have pointed out in this discussion, PC games from as far back as Quake (1996) are still perfectly playable because it uses an 'open', dedicated server based framework for its multiplayer services.
  Indeed. There's still an active CustomTF community going, even after over a decade.
  I refused to buy Modern Warfare 2 because of their lack of dedicated servers, and what EA does (shutting down old Madden servers when a new version comes out) has basically led me to informally boycott their games as well.
99. Re:and... by sjames · 2010-05-12 10:55 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, it would be completely illegal and well documented to happen all the time.
  Local business sends machine off in good faith to local recycler who sends it (probably in good faith) to international recycler who dumps it in the 3rd world.
100. Re:and... by Zymophideth · 2010-05-12 11:30 · Score: 1
  
  But all the electronics make them more efficient so you save money on water, electricity &/or gas. Sure, it may not be enough to cover the costs of a new one but it's green and you're helping the environment so you should feel good about yourself. What? You want to know the environmental impact of creating all these new replacement appliances? Don't worry your little head about that, just keep buying new shit.
101. Re:and... by RoboRay · 2010-05-12 12:04 · Score: 1
  
  PC games let the players kick the cheaters out of the game, and the server operators can ban them too. And you actually get to do it yourself without waiting for Big Giant Corporation to police your game for you. /shrug
102. Re:and... by caitsith01 · 2010-05-12 13:12 · Score: 1
  
  Welcome to arguably the best game ever made...
  Amazing that something that fitted on a couple of floppy disks has so much depth, and many games taking up whole DVDs today don't come close.
  I recently started playing Jagged Alliance 2, which is very similar to X-Com but has more of a plot with specific characters. I recommend staying away from it if you value your free time.
  
  --
  Read Pynchon.
103. Re:and... by trawg · 2010-05-12 14:17 · Score: 1
  
  So i have a trust in "the community". People want to play multiplayer and there's nothing that the publishers of the games can do to stop them.
  Heh did you read that bnetd article? It shows precisely what publishers do to stop them - send in the lawyers.
  When they have a vested interest in control - like Blizzard does with these games - they will stomp them. And in this case we're talking really old games! Fortunately Blizzard still support them - they're actually the opposite of a shitty game developer as they see the real, tangible advantages of long-term support for their games in terms of the brand recognition it creates.
104. Re:and... by Hadlock · 2010-05-12 18:14 · Score: 1
  
  I think there are some rouge Ultima Online servers out there too, at least two distinct communities last time I checked.
  
  --
  moox. for a new generation.
105. Re:and... by Hadlock · 2010-05-12 18:18 · Score: 1
  
  My mother used to sell cutco knives back in college (30 year old knives), we sent in her demo kit for free sharpening/replacement
  
  I routinely buy/find old snapon/sears tools and get them replaced with brand new tools
  
  --
  moox. for a new generation.
106. Re:and... by guyminuslife · 2010-05-12 20:22 · Score: 1
  
  Well now I know why my duck is a hat.
  
  --
  I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
107. Re:and... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-14 07:54 · Score: 0
  
  Uh, I'm just about 100% positive that you can play xbox games on an xbox console. You can still do single player, multiplayer, and lan multiplayer. Just no xbox live.
  Games are always money down the drain. Go look on amazon at used game prices for any of the older consoles, and you'll find most of them in the $5-$10 range.
  Sure, with most pc games you can still play them online too, but most of the time there's nobody left to play them with anyway.
  You're argument about changing OS's and relying on community groups to port the game over, well, that's mostly a load of horse shit. In the case of the xbox, 20 years from now if you find a working xbox, all you gotta do is put in the xbox game to play it. With computers, you gotta hunt down the communities that have ported the games you want to play. Even then, if the game isn't one of those "timeless classics" like Doom, it probably won't have anyone working on porting it.
108. Re:and... by dwightk · 2010-05-14 15:22 · Score: 1
  
  If I buy a game for my console, I know it will play properly.
  I've had console games with bugs. Usually they were in the edges of the game, but they made those parts unplayable.
  
  --
  Like anyone can even know that
109. Re:and... by MikeBabcock · 2010-05-18 02:08 · Score: 1
  
  Did you call them and complain?
  On any occasion that I've had a real bug in a game from a good publisher, they've offered me a full refund or exchange when I've called.
  The earliest I remember was Aidyn Chronicles for the N64. It had a few quest options which resulted in crashes. Contacting the publisher resulted in exchanging the cart for any other game in their library.
  Point being of course not that there aren't bugs in console games, but that a console game certified to run on a given console will in fact run without you needing more RAM or a different video card.
  
  --
  - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
110. Re:and... by MikeBabcock · 2010-05-18 02:14 · Score: 1
  
  You mean like my PS2 collection? I can still purchase a brand new PS2 for $100 if my old original fat one dies (and I may very well do that before it goes out of production).
  If the game's old enough, you can always run it the same way we run very old PC games -- in an emulator.
  
  --
  - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
111. Re:and... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-19 09:46 · Score: 0
  
  You seem to be a huge fan of GoG, it is almost as if you were running ads for them.
Meanwhile on the PC by Shadow+of+Eternity · 2010-05-11 16:52 · Score: 5, Informative

People are still playing everything from Quake's Team Fortress to Tribes 2, with their own dedicated servers and authentication systems.

--
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
1. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by ani23 · 2010-05-11 16:57 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  Counterstrike. I seriously doubt it will decommision in my lifetime
2. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by OrwellianLurker · 2010-05-11 17:09 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Counterstrike. I seriously doubt it will decommision in my lifetime
  It's the Pacman of FPS.
  
  --
  'Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.' - Mao Tse-tung
3. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by Sowelu · 2010-05-11 17:09 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  For some reason I thought Halo 2 still had online multiplayer--just not through the actual old hub servers anymore. You have to set it up yourself. Just like Quake.
4. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by gringer · 2010-05-11 17:10 · Score: 1
  
  Go suck...
  Were they the famous last words from the last person to get fragged on the Halo 2 servers?
  
  --
  Ask me about repetitive DNA
5. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 17:10 · Score: 0
  
  Not everyone enjoys cock as much as you. Honestly.
6. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by Soilworker · 2010-05-11 17:10 · Score: 0, Flamebait
  
  Funny how all those games you guys mentioned was good, innovative games with awesome gameplay and communities, it's off topic, we're talking about halo here.
  That's why they are still played, not because you can install dedicated servers, halo 2 was dead way before microsoft decided to pull the plug, when they announced it people restarted playing it.
7. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 17:14 · Score: 0
  
  We can go further back, KAHN and Kali make IPX games possible still, hell I can still play Doom network multiplayer, even with the internet as the network in question. This is why the concept of a centralized service like this is not a good one. With this, and many other games (EA Sports regularly cuts off support for older versions of their sports titles even on PC), it is clearly shown that eventually when it is no longer profitable the company will shut down the servers, and if they do not release a patch and dedicated server so that the player base can pick up the slack we are left with no way to play online. Some games while still active get reverse engineered and emulated, but I am not aware of any emulation of Xbox Live itself, or the client/server structure of these games themselves. Only very popular games (Mostly MMOs and Battle.net) really have online game emulation (as far as I am aware, if I am wrong please correct me because I always like to read up on reverse engineering for emulation and things like this, even if it is now not legal in the US (Blizz/Vevendi V. BnetD)).
8. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by Rewind · 2010-05-11 17:21 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  That is somewhat misleading. Isn't the original Tribes down? WON went down along with all the original games that were on it (though you can migrate to Steam). Heck EA shuts down PC things left and right. You are making this sound console specific when in reality it is just more obvious on consoles.
  
  --
  ?
9. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 17:23 · Score: 0
  
  That's true. Some people like you enjoy cocks even more than the GP.
10. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 17:44 · Score: 0
  
  I'll just play my old online favourite Soldier of Fortune OH WAIT FUCK!
11. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 17:48 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  This is because of the way Valve thinks about CS. It started out as a third-party mod, and Valve was all "wow, the fans are having way more fun with this mod than they are with the main game - we should find a way to get in on this action!" So they adopted it, and the rest is history. At one point it actually accounted for more internet traffic than the nation of Italy (admittedly, before broadband penetration was quite so high, and in no small part because of sloppy network algorithms). Given the thinking behind why Valve picked up Counterstrike as an official product, I would be absolutely dumbstruck if they don't keep milking it for as long as the fans are interested in it.
  
  In related news: the lack of LAN play in Starcraft II means that it is going to horizon eventually, while Starcraft will always be around. Go figure.
  
  But seriously, game producers - an established fan base is extremely valuable even if they've already paid for the game. If you can't figure out how to sell them something else on the basis of their existing fandom, you need a new job. If you can't figure out that it's good marketing to find a way to continue supporting a game that still has fans and would rather spend the money on another television commercial, you need a new job.
12. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by BitZtream · 2010-05-11 17:52 · Score: 1
  
  Welp, I think this is just one of those things thats gotten me to realize I need to avoid contributing to the consoles completely.
  I refuse to buy another sony product for multiple reasons, the most important to this discussion is the fact that I went through 3 of them in a year or so, but you all know of the plethora of reasons Sony needs to die.
  I understand not wanting to maintain the servers forever, but not giving anyway for people to continue on is unacceptable, just like DRM that requires a server.
  I've been pondering canceling my GameFly account anyway and the dvd drive in my xbox is getting louder and louder so its probably about to go anyway, so I'm guessing when it bites the dust I'll just stop with the consoles completely and continue to game on my PC.
  Fortunately one of the side effects of getting older and starting a family is that I don't get much time to game anyway so losing out on games on a console probably isn't going to be that noticeable.
  Sigh ... I feel like such a grumpy old man ... more and more I think I sound like my grumpy old man, good thing I like him. I've started to enjoy fishing more too ... yep, time to stop caring about consoles.
  
  --
  Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
13. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 17:53 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  That is somewhat misleading. Isn't the original Tribes down?
  
  Yes, but you can host your own masterserver, and the game lets you switch between them; even without masterservers, you can connect directly to known server IP addresses. Neither of these is possible with console games.
14. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by Majik+Sheff · 2010-05-11 17:54 · Score: 1
  
  Based on my experiences with the typical gamer in Halo 2 it was probably "I'm Rick James, bitch".
  
  --
  Women are like electronics: you don't know how damaged they are until you try to turn them on.
15. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 18:25 · Score: 0
  
  Wow halo players are that gay ??
16. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by impaledsunset · 2010-05-11 18:39 · Score: 1
  
  Some of us are still playing Doom 2 multiplayer without dedicated servers.
17. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by w00tsauce · 2010-05-11 18:51 · Score: 0
  
  It's still the MOST played first person shooter when you count the thousands of underground "cracked" non-steam servers, which are mostly in foreign countries. Visit any game-server tracking website for proof.
18. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by Shadow+of+Eternity · 2010-05-11 18:52 · Score: 1
  
  So was Tribes 2, but again people are still playing "with their own dedicated servers and authentication systems". I don't see how stating a fact about what people are indeed doing at this very moment is misleading.
  
  --
  A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
19. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by Vectormatic · 2010-05-11 19:04 · Score: 1
  
  there is, there are multiple VPN-alike solutions for 'emulating' xbox live through system link.
  This way even halo 1 was played online before xbox live existed..
  
  --
  People, what a bunch of bastards
20. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by icebraining · 2010-05-11 20:25 · Score: 1
  
  I stopped buying consoles with the N64. Damn, that was a good machine. Still working fine after 13 years.
  
  --
  Dilbert RSS feed
21. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by SCPRedMage · 2010-05-11 20:58 · Score: 1
  
  Mod parent +1 Awesome.
  
  --
  My sig can beat up your sig.
22. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by jack2000 · 2010-05-11 21:02 · Score: 1
  
  That would be Unreal Tournament Classic. Oh and Duke nukem/Quake3. Those 3.
23. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by holiggan · 2010-05-11 23:22 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly. One of the reasons I will never ever quit PC gaming for some "console" in any form, shape or color.
  Tell me again, Mr. Big Console Manufacturer, why should I ever bother to buy your products...
  
  --
  "A sysadmin is a cross between a detective, a police officer, a gardener, a doctor and a fireman"
24. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by Diantre · 2010-05-11 23:42 · Score: 1
  
  Starcraft. God dayum.
25. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by Chrono11901 · 2010-05-11 23:51 · Score: 1
  
  The original master server went down but another one went up the take its place.
  Google TribesFTW for a fan updated version of tribes 1 with the new master server configured.
26. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 23:58 · Score: 0
  
  Funny how every single person who speaks out loud the opinion that Halo sucks immediately gets modded down as flamebait or troll.
  Disliking Halo = Denying Holocaust, almost.
27. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-12 00:47 · Score: 0
  
  It's a decent game in itself, but i just dont like the characters, the story, and the douches that play MP online, thus, i hate halo.
28. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by NoSleepDemon · 2010-05-12 00:48 · Score: 1
  
  What irked me about Halo was the way Bungie were marketing it as the next best thing since sliced bread... Even more so, how the console gamers lapped it up. It's as if multiplayer FPS's hadn't existed before good ol' Bungie came down on the wings of Heaven and made it so. UT & Q3 owned multiplayer long before Halo's release, and Q3 is still owning it now in the form of Quake Live.
29. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by b0lt · 2010-05-12 01:00 · Score: 1
  
  Battle.net has been around for forever too (longer than Counter-Strike), and you can still play Diablo I through it. Blizzard is probably the only game developer that has less chance of dying than Valve, so Battle.net isn't going anywhere.
  
  --
  got sig?
30. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by VGPowerlord · 2010-05-12 02:17 · Score: 1
  
  If you think that's crazy, Counter-Strike: Source currently has a new update in Beta... to upgrade it to the Orange Box (Team Fortress 2) engine, as well as incorporate some other miscellaneous changes from their newer games (updated Scoreboard, etc...).
  Unfortunately, going by the server mailing list, CS:S will no longer work on machines without SSE2 support. This includes server machines.
  
  --
  GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
31. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by tlhIngan · 2010-05-12 03:07 · Score: 1
  
  What irked me about Halo was the way Bungie were marketing it as the next best thing since sliced bread... Even more so, how the console gamers lapped it up. It's as if multiplayer FPS's hadn't existed before good ol' Bungie came down on the wings of Heaven and made it so. UT & Q3 owned multiplayer long before Halo's release, and Q3 is still owning it now in the form of Quake Live.
  Halo is considered to be the FPS that was actually playable on a console. Sure there were FPS on a console before, but everyone was "take away my keyboard and mouse over my dead body" type attitude. Halo pretty much changed that and demonstrated that yes, you can actually do an FPS on a console with decent controls using a controller. Ditto Halo Wars (Ensemble Studios) which also had pretty decent controls as an RTS on a console.
  Hell, even professional gamers (yes, there are people who play games for a living) often "relax" with a game of Halo.
  The other thing is, console gaming usually takes place on large screens - a 16-player Halo match only requires 4 xboxes and 4 TVs. A 16-player Quake/etc game requires 16 PC snd 16 monitors (or 16 laptops), which short of BYOC is hard to accomplish. Getting 4 Xboxes/TVs together is much easier.
  Halo wasn't the be-all-end-all in FPS games. It was just one of the first that played well on a console with a controller.
32. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by tlhIngan · 2010-05-12 03:21 · Score: 1
  
  People are still playing everything from Quake's Team Fortress to Tribes 2, with their own dedicated servers and authentication systems.
  The problem is Xbox Live's architecture was hobbled by one game. It's not a server issue, it's just that the overwhelming popularity of Halo 2 on Xbox was keeping Microsoft from being able to make more significant changes to Xbox Live because of compatibility reasons. Now, Microsoft was being kind in tolerating it that long (I think Halo 2 really only accounted for about 10K-ish players in total - #1 by far on Xbox, but getting seriously outclassed by Xbox360 games with 50K+ players on easily).
  If you look at the top 10 list of Xbox Live players playing Xbox games (not 360), the 9 other games on that list you barely heard a peep from, but they too are offline. In fact, all Xbox Live for original Xbox is gone. It's just that Halo 2 remained the popular Xbox game. (Microsoft never released figures on how many Halo 2 games were played via an original Xbox or via the Xbox360 emulator.)
  Sure, Microsoft could've tried to update all the Xboxes with new code, but that's risky and tricky, and possibly with the Xbox's limited resources, quite difficult.
  And hardcore Halo 2 players did get a couple of gifts from Microsoft in the end - 3 months free of Live service, 400 Microsoft points ($5), and a code to the Halo Reach freestanding beta (i.e., the one that doesn't require Halo ODST).
  It's not Halo 2 online multiplayer Microsoft ended support for - it's all original Xbox games lost Xbox Live. Just Halo 2 was the biggest amongst a shrinking crowd (the majority having moved to Halo 3). Hell, if Microsoft could keep compatibility with the original Xbox, they probably would, but they probably want to break free to allow them to revamp the service
33. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by ukyoCE · 2010-05-12 03:26 · Score: 1
  
  As b0lt said, battle.net has been around and supported for Diablo1 much longer than it took Microsoft to shut down Halo. Blizzard, like Valve, is a company that has earned a lot of trust with gamers, and has always had the money to do The Right Thing.
  Having merged with Activision may thrown a big ugly wrench into the works though.
34. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by NoSleepDemon · 2010-05-12 03:31 · Score: 1
  
  No it wasn't, and this is exactly what I'm talking about.
  
  For example Timesplitters, Goldeneye and Quake 3 on the Dreamcast came before Halo and were perfectly playable. Furthermore, 4 XBoxes might be easier to get together, but it's also a lot more awkward to actually play on a 4 way split screen, especially if it's a free for all match.
35. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by kalirion · 2010-05-12 03:43 · Score: 1
  
  People are still having Duke Matches?
36. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by otterpopjunkie · 2010-05-12 04:46 · Score: 0
  
  In fact, they just released a beta for a few additional features. Go valve!
37. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by jack2000 · 2010-05-12 04:47 · Score: 1
  
  Oh yeah, there's some very breath taking rewrites of the engine "eduke" or something, im not an expert but also a while back some people made a 3d glasses mod for Quake3 and a ton of other engine upgrades.
38. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-12 05:44 · Score: 0
  
  Unofficial master servers are not and have never been supported either, as the protocol must first be reverse-engineered. It's a hack. Just like a local-running emulated master server for a console game would be a hack.
  It doesn't matter whether the master server hostname is exposed in a text file or embedded in the executable; this is for convenience of publisher - or for Sierra WON case, as required middle-ware files - not for player support.
39. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by Dalzhim · 2010-05-12 06:57 · Score: 1
  
  Of course, we need to be ready when Duke Nukem Forever hits the shelves!
40. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by scot4875 · 2010-05-12 10:43 · Score: 1
  
  Goldeneye on the N64 would like to have a word with you.
  --Jeremy
  
  --
  Jesus was a liberal
41. Re:Meanwhile on the PC by FelixNZ · 2010-05-12 10:55 · Score: 1
  
  People are still having Doom deathmatches, and it is still awesome!
hmmmm by TRRosen · 2010-05-11 17:13 · Score: 1

I wonder how long it will be before the FTC or some attorney general forces the industry to label all games with online content with bold warnings of when support for online play will end.
1. Re:hmmmm by Amarantine · 2010-05-11 17:19 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Actually, i know that EA's games carry such a warning on the back (altough in very small print). Especially on their sports games. It reads something along the lines of "EA may retire online features after 30 days notice posted on www.ea.com or 30 days after the last day of the 2008-2009 NFL season."
RIP by BlackBloq · 2010-05-11 17:36 · Score: 1

Shield ran out ... light fading... Goodbye...wait whats that comet in the sky!
What I really expected to read by masterwit · 2010-05-11 17:38 · Score: 4, Funny

What I really expected was:
"Halo 2 preservation ends", six die in a fire believed to be caused by their game consoles.

--
We should start a new Slashdot and return control to the geeks. It actually wouldn't be that hard to get some users to
Thiago by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 18:44 · Score: 0

I think the most surprising thing about this news is the fact that machines created by microsoft could be running for almost a month straight. I never saw it happening.
1. Re:Thiago by fyrewulff · 2010-05-11 20:00 · Score: 1
  
  Most of us got disconnected by internet connectivity twitches - only a couple people were taken out by locked up hardware.
  
  --
  "We need to get over this notion, that, for Apple to win... Microsoft must lose." - Steve Jobs, 1997
2. Re:Thiago by Aeternitas827 · 2010-05-11 20:46 · Score: 1
  
  It's a shame it had to end, especially the way it did, but 26 (if I count right) days is a hell of a run. Unfortunately, it was probably inevitable, though.
  
  In the end, an era of a thing the way it was built to be--right or wrong, not here for that ---^ debate--makes me nod solemnly and light a smoke.
  
  --
  I don't post AC. I like my -1, Flamebaits. Trump/Sheen 2012 on the Batshit Insane ticket!
Re:And I thought... by SheeEttin · 2010-05-11 18:52 · Score: 3, Insightful

The difference here is that you can still use FORTRAN if you want to.
One of the main selling points of games like these is their multiplayer. You'd want it to go on forever--and well you should, you certainly paid for it!
You can still compile and run FORTRAN programs--in fact, if you run Linux, you might have a FORTRAN compiler installed and not know it (I'm in Windows, so I can't see if I do right now). Hell, when you install mingw, the compilers offered are C, C++, and FORTRAN. (Probably Java too, but I don't remember. Wikipedia says there is also Pascal and Ada support.)
The problem with Microsoft's treatment of their fanbase is "This product has reached end-of-life, we're killing it. Tough. What, you want more? No. And don't think about setting up your own master servers, etc., or we'll sue you." (Or something to that effect.)
Re:And I thought... by Jedi+Alec · 2010-05-11 20:12 · Score: 4, Insightful

...the Windows XP hangers-on were annoying. Sheesh...let it go guys. Like that one wizened old-timer in the back warehouse blathering on how FORTRAN is still relevant...
Ehmm, it works. It supports all the hardware in my gaming machine. It has been rock stable for the past few years.
Why *would* I change to a different OS? I already paid for this one...

--

People replying to my sig annoy me. That's why I change it all the time.
Ok, so we now all agree that Ms is unreliable ? by unity100 · 2010-05-11 20:14 · Score: 2, Interesting

i mean, for all its faults, you can still play diablo 1 online without any issues with blizzard. yet, halo, itself a very popular game today, got its multiplayer support dropped.

--
Read radical news here
1. Re:Ok, so we now all agree that Ms is unreliable ? by revengebomber · 2010-05-12 01:31 · Score: 1
  
  I thought we all recognized this when they shut down the Zone. At least with DirectPlay games, you can run your own matchmaking service if you want. God help us when they shut down Games For Windows Live and 6 or 7 years of console ports die. I never buy a game now unless it runs on the standard QuakeWorld model - CD key auth, master server, dedicated user-run servers.
  
  --
  09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
  45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
2. Re:Ok, so we now all agree that Ms is unreliable ? by Monkeedude1212 · 2010-05-12 03:01 · Score: 1
  
  This is more or less an issue with Consoles in general than it is Microsoft. The idea is that all the server and hosting architecture is much more accessible on a PC. You can choose to set up your own server and have people find you just by IP Address alone, this basic functionality has been built into most PC games since 1996. However, with consoles, everything is built to go through their online system. You can't simply choose to host a game and give people your address. You must set up a game, have it broadcast out through live, and invite through live.
  Because -everything- must go through live on a console, and that is a huge plethora of games compared to Blizzards small series, it makes sense that they'd have to decommission their old ones.
Re:And I thought... by jack2000 · 2010-05-11 21:06 · Score: 1, Informative

So you can pay Microsoft again and again and again.
Also don't forget the new hardware you'll be needing that would run your new fangled os.
WOOT by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 21:11 · Score: 0

does this mean we get halo 3?
Play Sisters or Dark Eldar by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 22:51 · Score: 0

If you're worried about the constant updates, you could always play Sisters of Battle or Dark Eldar. As the redheaded stepchildren of the 40K world they haven't been updated in a decade. ;)
Give it up for blizzard by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-11 23:38 · Score: 0

Blizzard has the best multiplayer service, hands down, in the history of mankind. They really take their time to make perfect games that will last trough the ages. And not only that, the battle.net servers will run forever! Games such as warcraft 2, more than 15 years old, still have a cheat-free, fast and free multiplayer system. The fact that every gamer connects in one server makes it easy and fast to find an oponent, whereas in open protocols like quake makes it hard to find places to play, since its not centered. Also, as i have seen with many CS servers around, cheating, ddossing, laggin, unmoderation makes it a very disappointing experience. Battle.net servers are the opposite of that.
The only games ive been buying in the last 5 years or so ( and i intend to keep that way) are from Blizzard. The only company which is in the gaming industry, not the moneymaking industry :)
1. Re:Give it up for blizzard by VGPowerlord · 2010-05-12 01:48 · Score: 1
  
  Games such as warcraft 2, more than 15 years old, still have a cheat-free, fast and free multiplayer system.
  This is actually misleading; you need to have bought the Battle.NET re-release to be able to play it online still, without using some third-party system like Kali.
  The Battle.NET edition wasn't released until 1999.
  
  The only company which is in the gaming industry, not the moneymaking industry :)
  They're not the only one. Valve still supports the master servers for every game they've ever released that has multiplayer support. Even better, you can activate keys for their pre-2003 games on Steam (which launched in 2003) and get automatic updates for it, too.
  
  --
  GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
2. Re:Give it up for blizzard by Reapy · 2010-05-12 03:11 · Score: 1
  
  Well, warcraft 2 was released before battle.net even existed, and only had IPX support, and didn't know anything about TCP connections.
  Kali made a lot of games playable over the internet, but all these games were made before there really was an internet, or the concept of multiplayer game was either new or unexplored.
  Ahh war 2 kali, to find that gaming high again in my life, never again, never again :)
3. Re:Give it up for blizzard by ukyoCE · 2010-05-12 03:28 · Score: 1
  
  The battle.net edition of WC2 was still a minor re-release of a Very Old Game, so I think the OP's point stands.
  I take it they never released an "enable battle.net play" patch for the original WC2? I supposed the original WC2 was before the time of cd-keys, which may have prevented the corporate overlords from accepting the risk of allowing "pirates" to use the online service?
4. Re:Give it up for blizzard by Phyvo · 2010-05-12 03:43 · Score: 1
  
  While I agree that having battle.net still online is great and all, it's anything but cheat free.
  If you want to play Starcraft (mostly non-UMS) cheat free you still need to install the iCCup launcher and play there. People still try to cheat but at least there are mods there who handle these things, as opposed to no control and no consequences whatsoever like on battle.net (minus blacklist programs run by hosts).
  As for other old Blizzard games I don't know so much about the prevalence of cheating.
5. Re:Give it up for blizzard by VGPowerlord · 2010-05-12 05:06 · Score: 1
  
  Games such as warcraft 2, more than 15 years old, still have a cheat-free, fast and free multiplayer system.
  This is actually misleading; you need to have bought the Battle.NET re-release to be able to play it online still, without using some third-party system like Kali.
  The battle.net edition of WC2 was still a minor re-release of a Very Old Game, so I think the OP's point stands.
  No it doesn't. His point was that a 15 year-old game still has a working online system... and it doesn't. You had to purchase a new version of the game, released 4 years after the original (11 years ago) to get Internet play.
  More importantly, there were other games released between these two that added Internet play. Granted, some of these use dedicated servers run by the users (QuakeWorld, Half-Life), but as far as I know, these still have their master servers running... I know for a fact Half-Life: Deathmatch does, as WON, the network it used, was purchased outright by Valve and replaced by the Steam master servers in 2004.
  
  I take it they never released an "enable battle.net play" patch for the original WC2? I supposed the original WC2 was before the time of cd-keys, which may have prevented the corporate overlords from accepting the risk of allowing "pirates" to use the online service?
  That's not the only reason. The Battle.NET edition also moved the PC version of the game to Windows/DirectX, as Warcraft 2 classic for PCs was DOS only. Strangely, you can still play against Warcraft 2 classic on LAN games, where the original appears as version 1.0-1.5 (depending on the patch) and the Bettle.NET edition appears as version 2.0-2.02 (depending on the patch).
  
  --
  GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
6. Re:Give it up for blizzard by ukyoCE · 2010-05-12 06:59 · Score: 1
  
  No it doesn't. His point was that a 15 year-old game still has a working online system... and it doesn't. You had to purchase a new version of the game, released 4 years after the original (11 years ago) to get Internet play.
  Right, but everyone had already bought WC2 before the bnet version was released. The number of people who actually own, let alone play WC2 over battle.net, has to be minuscule.
  The fact that they're still supporting WC2's tiny bnet playerbase says a lot about their commitment.
  It can't take much money to maintain that, nor to maintain Quake/Half-life master servers. Maybe it speaks more to the greedy callousness of canceling Halo 2 online play than to a heroic effort by Blizzard, Id, or Valve.
7. Re:Give it up for blizzard by VGPowerlord · 2010-05-12 07:33 · Score: 1
  
  The fact that they're still supporting WC2's tiny bnet playerbase says a lot about their commitment.
  Not really, it uses the same BNet servers that StarCraft does, which apparently still has a huge following.
  
  --
  GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
8. Re:Give it up for blizzard by ukyoCE · 2010-05-12 07:48 · Score: 1
  
  Is that any different than saying "Halo 2 uses the same Xbox Live servers that Halo 3 / Halo Reach does"?
  I don't know the BNet or Live architecture enough to know if that's really an apt comparison.
9. Re:Give it up for blizzard by VGPowerlord · 2010-05-12 08:38 · Score: 1
  
  Is that any different than saying "Halo 2 uses the same Xbox Live servers that Halo 3 / Halo Reach does"?
  Halo 2 and Halo 3 were designed for different hardware, operating systems, and networks. Halo 2 was still playable using the Xbox 360, but it emulated the older Xbox Live system, and the servers for said older Xbox Live system have now been shut down.
  On the other hand, WarCraft 2: Battle.Net Edition is WarCraft 2 ported to the StarCraft engine, right down to the control changes made in StarCraft (although these are disabled if you choose to play a legacy LAN game which WarCraft 2 classic clients can join).
  
  --
  GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
10. Re:Give it up for blizzard by ukyoCE · 2010-05-12 08:48 · Score: 1
  
  Ah, thanks. I assumed they had this software running on PCs that they could trivially keep up indefinitely, didn't see the details about shutting down the original Xbox's Live system entirely.
  
  WarCraft 2: Battle.Net Edition is WarCraft 2 ported to the StarCraft engine, right down to the control changes made in StarCraft
  Wow, had no idea that could be an easier approach than adding battlenet to the existing WC2 codebase!
Memories.......... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-12 00:39 · Score: 0

OMFG have you seen the Halo 2 trailer?!?>11` it's like slow and it's telling you all the stuff you did in the first one then the music kicks in and and the chief comes out and gets a gun the earf is on fire and chief is like fuck this im jumping and HE JUMPS PUT OF TEH SPACESHIP with angels singing and he lands on the bad guys and that annoying ai lady is like GO GET EM TIGER! WILDCAT IS ON TEH SPOKE!!!~`1 and theres less polys but rawkin bumb mappings you can view this on a special MICROSOFT xbox disk that comes with EB games store.
Meanwhile on consoles by elrous0 · 2010-05-12 01:36 · Score: 1

And 3 times more money was made last year on console game sales than PC game sales. So which do you think the developers are going to favor?

--
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
1. Re:Meanwhile on consoles by Shadow+of+Eternity · 2010-05-12 06:24 · Score: 1
  
  Is that because console games are more popular or because there are more of them overall? Or maybe it's because developers keep making amazingly shitty PC ports so the PC players learned and quit buying.
  That argument doesn't work because you can't point out a clear cause for the effect.
  
  --
  A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
Sad to hear.... by __aamkky7574 · 2010-05-12 01:57 · Score: 2, Insightful

I'm not a Halo fan myself at all, but it does seem rather sad that someone's favourite online game can be suddenly taken away like this. When you're almost 40, 6 years really isn't such a long time, and currently I'm replaying Deus Ex which is, gasp, 10 years old. And you have even more extreme versions; for example, Mercenaries 2's multiplayer being turned off after only 1.5 years. Whether it's for reasons of costs, or do force players to purchase the latest games, is open for debate.
One of the benefits of PC gaming is that old games are readily available and indeed are revamped (either by unofficial graphical enhancement mods or by companies such as GOG.com re-released old games but compatible with modern GUIs).
P.
1. Re:Sad to hear.... by lwsimon · 2010-05-12 03:36 · Score: 1
  
  I'm 26, and I tend to prefer older games. I'm currently hooked on Transport Tycoon (well, OpenTTD) and Insurgency, which is a mod for Half-Life 2. I anticipate playing both of these for another 10 years, easy, provided there is still someone to play Insurgency with.
  
  --
  Learn about Photography Basics.
2. Re:Sad to hear.... by BigSes · 2010-05-12 05:53 · Score: 1
  
  And you have even more extreme versions; for example, Mercenaries 2's multiplayer being turned off after only 1.5 years.
  Well that sucks, I was just about to get back into Mercenaries 2 to finish up the trophies. Damn it. Learn something depressing everyday I guess.
3. Re:Sad to hear.... by __aamkky7574 · 2010-05-13 00:14 · Score: 1
  
  I recently bought Mercenaries 2; I can't say the lask of MP annoys me since (a) I rarely play MP anyway and (b) I paid €0.98 ($1.23) for it!
  P.
Re:And I thought... by Rick+Genter · 2010-05-12 05:32 · Score: 1

You can still compile and run FORTRAN programs--in fact, if you run Linux, you might have a FORTRAN compiler installed and not know it (I'm in Windows, so I can't see if I do right now).
Hmm.....let's see:
[rgenter@at41 rgenter]$ f77 --version GNU Fortran (GCC 3.2 20020903 (Red Hat Linux 8.0 3.2-7)) 3.2 20020903 (Red Hat Linux 8.0 3.2-7) Copyright (C) 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
GNU Fortran comes with NO WARRANTY, to the extent permitted by law. You may redistribute copies of GNU Fortran under the terms of the GNU General Public License. For more information about these matters, see the file named COPYING or type the command `info -f g77 Copying'. [rgenter@at41 rgenter]$
Yup. FORTRAN, check. :-)

--
Don't underestimate the power of The Source
Some Game Companies Don't Give a Fuck by Phrogman · 2010-05-12 05:47 · Score: 1

about us as customers. This should be a surprise to anyone? Most companies see their customers as a demographic that produces money. That demographic is there to be manupulated, massaged, or blackmailed into producing more money on demand. If the company is big enough they can get away with behaviour that should see their customers revolt.
There are companies who care, even if they are large monstrosities, but I am afraid they seem like the rarity these days.
Now, I don't buy console games. I have owned an XBOX, a PS3 and Wii in the past, and with the exception of the Wii (which offered experiences that were different from my PC gaming), none of them equaled my experience with PC games. I remain a devoute PC gamer, although these days I tend to play MMOs mostly so I am paying the game company for my continued entertainment ($15/mo on City of Heroes and a Lifetime subscription to LOTRO for $100 is still cheaper than paying for cable TV once a couple of months have passed).
Its a shame that gamers as a whole don't have the wits/willpower to organize enough to let games companies know they can't keep pulling off this sort of shit and continue to have those gamers as customers. Sadly though, we are generally focused on the latest shiney and can't see past it to predict future behaviour of the publisher based on past behaviour.
I could be entirely wrong but it seems to me that a large part of Blizzard's success has been that they don't screw over their customers.

--
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
Re:And I thought... by CronoCloud · 2010-05-12 06:46 · Score: 1

It's not installed by default in Fedora 12 (wasn't in Yellow Dog either). :-( Not that I'm a programmer or anything, but it's needed if you want to compile the original Adventure code. Had to install compat-gcc-34-g77 to get it.
LMAO by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-12 08:16 · Score: 0

If you're going to be a grammar and spelling pedant, at least have the decency to BE correct on your part before posting before putting someone else down.
LMAO... you must be new here.
No M/KB in almost any PS3 game. by mister_playboy · 2010-05-12 08:20 · Score: 1

But then I realized I want to play using a keyboard and mouse, and I don't know if the PS3 version supports them.
The lack of mouse/keyboard support in almost every game that could have benefited from it has been one of the biggest disappointments for the console.
The capability is there, but next to no games use it.

--
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
Older Bungie games you can still play online by Pfhorrest · 2010-05-12 09:01 · Score: 1

Myth and Marathon, Bungie's two big series before they ever dreamed up Halo, are still around, and continually updated by their respective fan communities (in terms of engine, content, and server). Old-school Bungie ruled like that.
I blame Microsoft.

--
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
Re:And I thought... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-05-24 14:51 · Score: 0

People aren't using XP anymore? Really? Why not? ...
I seriously thought I'd use W2k forever, but I did finally end up on XP. I expect to stay that way, as long as I damn well can. And I'm using it on the same P4 3.0 (single core, TYVM) pre-SATA motherboard with my final-generation of ATI's AGP card (9800SE Pro), and y'know what? It still works.
Peace and long life to you.
Everybody else can just get off my lawn.