Slashdot Mirror
In UK, First "Anarchist's Cookbook" Downloaders' Convictions
analysethis writes "In the UK last month the author/compiler of the well-known-in-Internet-circles 'terrorist handbook' pleaded guilty to seven counts of collecting information that could have been used to prepare or commit acts of terrorism, with a maximum jail term of 10 years. Today the first people caught with downloaded copies have been put behind bars — a white-supremacist father and son pairing getting 10 and two years respectively, convicted of three counts of possessing material useful for acts of terror. How many will be emptying their recycle bins after this conviction? As of writing, the book is still freely available on Amazon.com to buy." Note: it seems that there's some overlapping nomenclature at play. Terrance Brown, the man who pleaded guilty to terror charges last month, is said to have been distributing a CD set including among other things extracts from Al-Qaeda manuals. His "cookbook" differs then from William Powell's 1971 book by a similar title, though (confusingly enough) the linked Wikipedia article implies that the father-and-son pair arrested possessed a copy of the Powell book as well; its text may well have been among the materials that Brown distributed.
...could have been the fucking chemical weapons.
I have the feeling the conviction has more to do with a bunch of white supremacists holding large quantities of ricin, than that actual act of learning how to make it.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
How is that "white-supremacist" part relevant? It's not illegal to be ignorant, is it?
When I was a teenager I taught myself about everything from religion and witchcraft to bombs, computer hacking, and chemical weapons. Guess that means I'm a terrorist.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
convicted of three counts of possessing material useful for acts of terror
Can sombody explain why this is illegal? Every highschool student taking a chemistry course 'possesses material useful for acts of terror'. The fact that somebody owns something that COULD be used for some illegal activity doesn't make that person a criminal. Else, everybody would be in prison. Have you ever used a knife? A car? A computer? Thought so.
Not the Anarchist's Cookbook. Rife with inaccuracies and dangerous, or so my chemist friends tell me.
93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
Summary:" first people caught with downloaded copies have been put behind bars" TFA: "White supremacist who manufactured ricin jailed" Big difference. Now, we can focus on the charges against the author/writer, but make it a bit more clear please. Its retarded to arrest someone over information, but its the UK, so what can you expect. Who draws the line, do they arrest authors of high level physicist books about nuclear devices? UK is quickly revealing the police state mentality they have been hiding for so long, I guess next time I'm on that side of the pond I'll be sure to avoid it.
"It's ok, I'm completely secure as long as my iron is off"
If you want to get rid of something, first destroy it then delete it. Otherwise, you just have evidence sitting on your disk, because whatever you delete, just has its flag changed. So it remains there , till it gets overwritten. People who would look for the file will not just use windows' search. i bet many are going to burn their HDs now.
If they are white supremacists who frequently use eliminationist rhetoric, their conviction on possessing weapons capable of killing a large number of people in Harlem or Brixton could turn their rhetoric from protected speech into credible threats.
...was full of guarantied-to-fail receipts---bombs that would blow up their builders, acid that would give you bad trips, opiate analogues that are a one-way ticket to LDopaville.....
Interesting that the authorities don't ban various religious texts and holy bibles that are used to promote terrorism and hatred.
In reality books don't kill people, and guns don't (even) kill people. Religious and authoritarian ideologies are used to kill people. But I don't expect the Authorities to ban authoritarian and bigoted hate-filled religious texts which help encourage violence. It's another great hypocrisy.
(And I'll emphasize that I don't WANT religious texts banned, I'm just emphasizing and pointing out the logical fallacies tend to develop around Leadership and Law Enforcement).
FWIW, I knew a guy at school who was investigated by British police about 14 years ago for downloading manuals like this and being involved with a group of people involved in distributing such material and building shit for kicks... a Bachelors and a Masters later, he is now working at the Ministry of Defence (the UK DoD) as a strategist.
This doesn't surprise me at all. He was a fairly bright chap - though nothing spectacular - but his heart remained that of a pathological kid who liked pain and blowing shit up. The military want a monopoly on that sort of person; they'll either catch you when they can mould you, or get rid of you.
She's been terrorizing me with her cooking for years.
How many more years will slashdot have an off-by-one error on your Score in your profile?
I've got a copy of Never Mind the Bollocks which contains a track called "Anarchy in the UK" so I guess I'd better turn myself in as presumably this makes me a terrorist
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
...could have been the fucking chemical weapons.
fucking-chemical weapons? Chemical weapons now exist that know how to fuck? This war on terra is getting out of hand!
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
Every highschool student taking a chemistry course
It seems to be almost impossible to take a pure chem. course these days. What chemistry there is, is taught in such a watered down manner that it's almost an abstract philosophy class - mixed in with "vinegar and baking powder" level experiments, all done behind a safety screen with full protective gear. I doubt there are many children today who could even tell you what H2SO4 smells like.
Comparing the Chemistry O-level I took a few decades ago with the BBC's example Chemistry GCSE (on their website) almost makes you want to cry. These days it contains questions like "what is the most environmentally appropriate use for a limestone quarry, that's been mined out?"
However nowadyas our wonderful law enfarcement officers automitcally assume that chemistry only means either drugs or bombs, it's hardly surprising it's been demonised
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
http://www.minimovies.org/documentaires/view/crass
"Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
Ask him where the line is, he got jailed ( more then once ) for writing DIY gun books....
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Which makes it even that more sad..
Being jailed for possessing knowledge is wrong in so many ways. Anyone remember the book burning in WWII by the Nazis? ( well, not in person of cousre.. )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Intelligence and individuality are threatening to the authorities. There's a reason the intellectuals and truth-tellers are among the first to be executed in a fascist state.
So it sounds like you really don't have anything to fear. Except being swept away along with the troglodytes.
-FL
They won't be coming for me any time soon either. (I thought you were serious.)
-FL
Section 58 of the Terrorism Act 2000 makes it an offence to collect or make a record of information of a kind likely to be useful to a terrorist, or possesses a document or record containing information of that kind. There is a specific defence under s.58(3) if the person shows he had a reasonable excuse. The law was clarified by the Appellate Committee of the House of Lords in R. v. G.; R. v. J. [2009] 2 W.L.R. 724: Information is not caught by s.58 if it is everyday information that also happens to be useful to a terrorist (eg a train timetable), but information which is by its very nature designed to provide practical assistance is. If it is caught by the section, then the issue of reasonable excuse arises - and it must be an objectively reasonable excuse. In other words, saying you have bomb making manuals because you like to blow shit up is unlikely to provide a defence. That you work in explosives, or study chemistry is. So to be clear - the Anarchists Cookbook is not "banned", but if you do have it, it must be for an objectively justifiable reason. It is similar to the law on knives - you can have one in public, but it is up to you to show good cause. In practice, nerds who just collect the information are unlikely to be prosecuted, unless there is some other feature - making it available to others, having a shit-load of pipebombs and racist literature etc. (That is the law, not a justification of it). (IAAL)
Maybe it is because in Europe we think of the holocaust, the killing of millions of people to take their property as a bad thing. Americans think of it has "how the west was won". Really, the only difference between Hitler and the US was that Hitler went east for Lebensraum.
Oh and free speech in the United States? Check the McCarthy trials. Yeah, cheer up US, you can say that all other races should be killed, but not that wealth should be distributed evenly.
I guess it is just about what you fear most. Taxes or the Holocaust.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
People do remember the Nazi's. It is all very well to talk about free speech, until you see what free speech can lead to.
Americans LOVE to talk about free speech, but oddly enough none of them seem to remember the McCarthy trials or indeed the dixy chicks. Free speech? No, just a different set of rules of what you can't say.
It has been proven recently in South Africa and Rwanda that free speech can all to easily lead to horrific things. SA has had race riots... well riots... the race is all black, incited by radio broadcasts. Same as what started the slaughter in Rwanda.
Free speech? To parody Islam? Doesn't seem to exist and a lot of freedom advocates want people to self censor themselves to avoid upsetting things. Free speech is very hard. True free speech is impossible. It would require ANY and ALL speech and publication of images and ideas which are not obviously illegal in another way to be not just allowed or even tolerated but ENABLED. Think about this, if I am free to say X but have no means of publishing it, it would STILL be censorship. Everyone with a printing press could simply limit my free speech, so at least some presses would have to be publicly owned and be required to print ANYTHING ANYBODY wants. Good luck with that.
Free speech is also more then just not being arrested for saying something, it also means the rest of society can't act against you. Like with the dixie chicks. Free speech as you long as you say what we want you to say or we will make your life impossible? No.
Really, kid, stop thinking about free speech in such simple terms. Be pro-free speech all you want, but do it with a solid understanding of the enormous so far unsolved problems this will bring. Meanwhile the rest of the world has learned to accept that freedom only exist up to a certain point. usually when you want to end other peoples freedom.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
This is ridiculous and obviously there is some paranoid agenda going on; and we are just days short of "finding" WMD in Iran, like they did find in Iraq. I hope someone convict George Bush and Tony Blair for actually using powers against its own nation?
And this, children, is why we don't share our reading lists and other personal information on sites like Facebook. It's also why we should be wary of other people keeping track of everything we read, whether it's over the web or on devices like Kindle.
WRoNG!
WRoNG!
WRoNG!
Did I win the debate?
[UID-HeinzIntel]
Of course freedom(s) can be abused by a few, but that is not a reason to restrict it from the masses.
Your attitude really scares me, and is part of what is wrong these days with society. Once you limit a freedom, its a matter of time before its gone completely.
As a side note, free speech does not mean it HAS to be published, it just cant be restricted from being published/distributed.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Can sombody explain why this is illegal?
It was made illegal in the Terrorism Act 2006, which was passed following the 7/7 London bombings. The Act itself was controversial, as it brought in new crimes of "glorifying" terrorism, and "inciting someone to commit acts of terrorism", both of which have implications for free speech. The new laws have been used to successfully prosecute various people such as "cyber-jihadist" Younes Tsouli.
My father* used to tell me, that he had such a 70s “cookbook”. The original paper version. Which was special, since... here it comes... usually that was just the term for a hollowed-out book, filled with a hand-grenade. ^^
Of course I also had to see for myself what that book contains. Unfortunately I lost the PDF of both the original version, and a early “new” version, years ago when a HDD died. :/
But I think it is completely unacceptable to put someone to jail who didn’t hurt anybody, just because he has something that could be used to hurt somebody. Because by that logic, we all here would have to go to jail, because we could use our penises to rape women (and men).
Key point: Doesn’t mean we are actually doing it!
What I think is highly criminal though, is those convictions. Because other than just owning a book, those actually hurt people. There is a name for governments doing such crimes: Dictatorship.
* One of the guys who defended Afghanistan from the Russian invasion back then, assisted by weapons the US gave them, so they did not have to do it themselves. Because of a certain sub-group of people, that kinda backfired for the US though. ;) (But hey, at least my father now has a lucrative job, interviewing people that don’t let anyone else interview them.)
Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
The only thing that concerned me about all of this stuff is the Ricin that was allegedly produced - charge people with that, but but having information that is freely available everywhere? That's thoughtcrime and it's bullshit
Bullshit, much like the summary. It is not illegal to have a copy of the Anarchist's Cookbook in the UK, despite what timothy would like you to believe. Not now, not in the past, and (probably) not ever. What *is* illegal is distributing copies, telling people to make things from those and use them to blow up or poison people, and making poisons from information found on the Internet. In other words, if you have a copy of the Anarchist's Cookbook that is not in itself illegal (although it might make the police want to find out a bit more about you). If you have a copy of the Anarchist's Cookbook and a jam-jar full of ricin, a sack of castor beans and the chemicals required to efficiently extract more ricin from the remaining beans (google it, if you're interested) then there's a good chance that you *are* committing a crime.
If you search the web you'll find:
AF Regulation 64-4 - Search and Rescue Survival Training
FM 3-24 - MCWP 3-33.5 - Counterinsurgency
TM 31-210 - Improvised Munitions Handbook
These are non-copyrighted, public domain texts prepared by the USA armed forces. They all teach how to create terror in the enemy ranks. The last one, "Improvised Munitions", teaches how to make explosives from stuff you find anywhere.
No need to go through lengthy procedures to buy "dangerous" chemicals, they are everywhere if you know where to look. And this free manual, courtesy of the US Army, teaches you where to look.
Why is it illegal to teach people how to make bombs when the government does it everyday. Or is that the social contract, 'You can have this knowledge, as long as you serve us for 4 years.' I just see it as raising the bar on terrorism.
... learn to think like one and then find teh ways into your home and fix them, so a burglar can't get in.
Though I haven't read any terrorist educational material, I'd imagine the same applies here.
Ultimately its a mindset thing and how to counter bad mindsets, which you cannot do if you do not know the mindset you are trying to counter.
And who exactly are those who don't want you countering terrorist mindsets?
A: those who partake in terrorism themselves.
May i be not the first to say what a steaming pile of **** this is.
Lest we forget http://www.stolly.org.uk/ETO
I wonder ow much being a white supremecist hurt him in the conviction.
I find it interesting that everyone on Slashdot seems to be overlooking that little tidbit.
the father made some ricin.
Reality is defined by the maddest person in the room
Hmm, it is time to burn all the high school and university libraries, since they contain physics and chemistry books.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
How did it go?! "We don't allow people having guns, so why would we them allow having ideas."
Something haunting reminiscent about the Steve Jackson case about this. The government doesn't seem to want certain information to get out, regardless of its validity.
By the way, street rumor has it that the original 1971 work has long since been heavily "improved" courtesy of the CIA and/or others in the government, and that reprints since the mid-70's have not been reliable.
everyone who is in the UK and opened this slashdot plage is now a criminal!
The Al Qaeda Manual
The attached manual was located by the Manchester (England) Metropolitan Police during a search of an al Qaeda member's home. The manual was found in a computer file
described as "the military series" related to the "Declaration of Jihad." The manual was translated into English and was introduced earlier this year at the embassy bombing trial in New York.
GOVERNMENT
1677-T
UK/BM-1 TRANSLATION
IT IS FORBIDDEN TO REMOVE THIS FROM THE HOUSE
UK/BM-2TRANSLATION
DECLARATION OF JIHAD [HOLY WAR] AGAINST THE COUNTRY'S TYRANTS MILITARY SERIES
[Emblem]: A drawing of the globe emphasizing the Middle East and
Africa with a sword through the globe
[On the emblem:] Military Studies in the Jihad [Holy War] Against
the Tyrants
UK/BM-3 TRANSLATION
[E] 19/220
In the name of Allah, the merciful and compassionate
PRESENTATION
To those champions who avowed the truth day and night......Andwrote with their blood and sufferings these phrases...
-*-The confrontation that we are calling for with the apostateregimes does not know Socratic debates...,
Platonic ideals..., nor Aristotelian diplomacy. But it knows the dialogue of bullets, the ideals of assassination, bombing, and destruction, and the diplomacy of the cannon and machine-gun.
***... Islamic governments have never and will never be established through peaceful solutions and cooperative councils. They are
established as they [always] have been
by pen and gun
by word and bullet
by tongue and teeth
UK/BM-4 TRANSLATION
In the name of Allah, the merciful and compassionate
Belongs to the guest house
Please do not remove it from the house except with permission.
[Emblem and signature, illegible]
UK/BM-5 TRANSLATION
Pledge,O Sister
To the sister believer whose clothes the criminals have stripped
off.
To the sister believer whose hair the oppressors have shaved.
To the sister believer who's body has been abused by the human
dogs.
To the sister believer whose...
Pledge, OSister
Covenant, OSister...to make their women widows and their children orphans.
Covenant, OSister...to make them desire death and hate appointments and prestige.
Covenant, OSister... to slaughter them like lambs and let the
Nile, al-Asi, and Euphrates rivers flow with their blood.
Covenant, OSister... to be a pick of destruction for everygodless and apostate regime.
Covenant, OSister... to retaliate for you against every dog who touch you even with a bad word.
"O
UK/BM-6 TRANSLATION
In the name of Allah, the merciful and compassionate
Thanks be to Allah. We thank him, turn to him, ask his forgiveness, and seek refuge in him from our wicked souls and bad deeds. Whomever Allah enlightens will not be misguided, and the deceiver will never be guided. I declare that there is no godbut Allah alone; he has no partners. I also declare that Mohammed is his servant and prophet.
[Koranic verses]:
ye who believe! Fear Allah as He should be feared, and die not except in a state of Islam"
"O mankind! Fear your guardian lord who created you from a single person. Created, out of it, his mate, and from them twain scattered [like seeds] countless men and women; fear Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual [rights], and be heedful of the wombs [that bore you]: for Allah ever watches over you."
"0ye who believe! Fear Allah, and make your utterance straight
forward: That he may make your conduct whole and sound and
forgive you your sins. He that obeys Allah and his messenger, has
already attained the great victory."
Afterward,
The most truthful saying is the book of Allah and the best
guidance is that of Mohammed, God bless and keep him.
[Therefore,]the worst thing is to introduce something new, for
every novelty is an act of heresy and each heresy is a deception.
UK/BM-7 TRANSLATION
Introduction
Martyrs were killed, women were widowed, children were orphaned,
I saw a similar bit by Eddie Izzard. Wow, you must have to get up pretty early in the morning for that.
Death, death, death, death, breakfast, death, death, tea, death, death...
My mom says I'm cool.
Let's see: a terrorist that wants to blow up a train needs to know at which time that train will go by. So, a train timetable is "information of a kind likely to be useful to a terrorist".
Not everyone sees the end goal in an argument as getting to a "true" resolution through reasoned debate. They just want their opinions to "win". And without enough people in the discussion who DO value interesting debate and communication over funny anecdotes and opinions that coincide with their point of view, any value in the discussion is lost. And don't kid yourself; those kinds of people exist on /. too.
/., I don't believe banning books is the answer to all extremist problems. But nor should rational, critically thinking people be so quick to engage wingnuts on their own turf. That gives them legitimacy, or perceived legitimacy. And if they have no interest in making a compromise, it's a loss all around.
Switching topics back to the world outside of
I took a copy of the older Anarchist Cookbook to PAX, shortly after the airing of Leverage in which Wil Wheaton played the hacker Chaos.... and asked him to sign it as such. He thought for a moment, then handed this back. Too meta? :)
You quitting proves that the karma kap worked. The most annoying of the whores shut up. --CmdrTaco
Unbeknownst even to most Brits, the recently deposed British Government was waging war on our freedom.
This document is a little out of date but is otherwise an excellent and terrifying source.
Some snippets for you.
The Blair govt twice passed bills which can rewrite the constitution (including that bit about holding elections):
The first one was the Civil Contingencies Act - which can declare a instant dictatorship upon a minor national emergency, uncannily familiar to Hitler's Enabling Act.
The second one was the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Act. This one can amend constitutional laws without requiring any discussion in Parliament.
Hey ABG, LTNS.
Did you notice Blair's Serious Crime Bill, via which you could be punished eg forced to move hundreds of miles, by merely doing something which would inadvertently aid any potential serious crime, whether or not a crime was committed?
It was amended by Brown to make the punishment proportionate.
Blair actually out-1984'd Orwell.
I think it was about 15 years ago that I downloaded 'the cookbook' from a warez site.
It was a TOTAL disappointment. Most of it was outdated (how to phreak public payphones and hack Yahoo! email circa 1998) or overrated. Lots of stuff about how to make pipebombs or pick locks but nothing really interesting, like how to set up and manage a pirate radio station, or how to grow marijuana or how to build an engine and generator or a list of your legal rights.
Fuck it - there wasn't even anything on rifling the barrel of a firearm. And I bet there wasn't much like that in these guy's downloads either.
But do you know where you could learn these secrets of self-empowerment??
In the science section of your local library.
http://xkcd.com/90/
Our culture doesn't get smarter, it just finds new ways of being retarded.