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Telcos Waking Up To the Value of Your Location
holy_calamity writes "Cell phone networks represent probably the most effective data collectors of all time: almost everyone's movements and communications are logged in some way by these firms thanks to the ubiquity of cell phones. Now they're beginning to wake up to the value of that data, as researchers mine call records to study travel and social patterns at previously unimaginable scales. Not surprisingly, some are thinking about how to monetize that data, too."
This is just more of the slope we are going down. I'm sure that soon, telcos will realize they have a nice stream of info they can mine/monetize by attaching voice recognition software to people chatting, and then sell that data, either "aggregate", or person by person and identifiable.
Europe actually has lawmakers who might pass privacy laws. Maybe the EU can start by attaching severe penalties for using location information for anything but critical legal info?
Did someone say cheaper phone calls??
Wait! Whats a sig?
My guess is that the companies will try to charge their customers more for "location based services," and also charging the companies that use location data to actually provide those "services."
Palm trees and 8
I cant believe that AT&T took this long to figure out that they hold such valuable data. Verizon et al. will soon follow suit surely. City planning seems obvious and its also in TFA, but I cant seem to think of other applications for this data. Outdoor Advertising?
Time to get more cell phones to use as decoys?
We are all God's parents.
Jack Dorsey (Twitter Founder) did this with bike couriers, ambulances, and fire trucks. Mologogo (http://www.mologogo.com/) allows you to do this somewhat as part of a social network, Google Latitude allows you to see who's close by. I wouldn't be surprised if we are already being tracked.
As for ways for telcos to monetize this, I would imagine this data would make a PI's job a lot easier--as well as an unwanted stalker--individuals' locations in aggregate would be useful for real-time traffic data, or even for commuting stats. It sort of reminds me of a game called Monopoly Tycoon and how I could see how shoppers in my city were moving, and place my stores to maximize foot traffic.
If government subsidized telcos want to use my data to make money, I think I will charge them for it. After all what travels on their tubes isn't their data, otherwise they couldn't be labeled common carriers.
I wondered some time ago how pinpointing the location of mobile phone works in practice. I imagine one based on power measurement would be rather sloppy. So is it based on the delay of signal arrival measured at each participating base station? (the main limitation being the precision and synchronisation of clocks in base stations) Something else?
One that hath name thou can not otter
If you care at all about your privacy, buy prepaid with cash. They don't have any way to tie you to the specific phone that way.
Otherwise, if you give them all your data, don't be surprised when they use it for all kinds of things you didn't imagine.
Most people seem to take the philosophy of, "I'll just ask nicely and maybe they won't go all big brother on me". Me, I try to push towards the philosophy of, "Let's not give them this in the first place. Then there's no issue because it *cannot* be a problem".
Not just for this but other things too. I admit it requires a few sacrifices, but really much less than you might think. Mostly what it requires is *thinking*.
GPS
Wikipedia, see Mobile_phone_tracking
Based on how Google Latitude and Maps work when I turn off the GPS info on my phone, I'm not sure if they bother with getting any more granular than whatever cell tower you are running off of. This gives several miles worth of error, but still pretty close, all things considered.
I guess it's a good thing I don't have a cell phone. No cell phone, no tracking. No tracking, no data mining.
About the best the marketers know about me is from my grocery shopping card, though what they glean from my buying a 5 lb. tub of Crisco, two 48-count packs of condoms, three baby bottles and the 5 lb. jar of grape jelly every two weeks is up to them.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Location-based_service#Locating_methods
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
If you walk around then your mobile logs at least into one mobile cell. If there are three cells around you then you can do triangulation. There's an open source project that can make use of this data from within your mobile: http://opencellid.org/
"So, we noticed that you spent an hour at a known brothel today. The good news is we offer our special customers preferential rates for non-geographic billing!"
My theory, telcos wanted to sell this information to the likes of Google, Yahoo and Miscrosoft (and facebook and Pizza Hut etc...).
They didn't want the negative backslash, so they asked the Government to ask them for their users name, transference of Guilt.
The Government saw this as a chance to implement the kind of inter-federal surveillance that would make the founding fathers spin in their graves.
Profit!
But... the future refused to change.
Well, without a GPS in the phone it isn't worth much (though most have it this day, making it much easier of course). I saw this because a friend gave me his old phone while I wait to get an Incredible in a couple of weeks and it doesn't have a GPS and even when it estimates the location within 400 meters (the lowest I've ever scene) it isn't even that close (actual location is probably closer to 600+ meters away). Sometimes it even places the estimate "within 1,100 meters", with that being the largest area I've seen so far.
"This is anautomated message for Mr Smith. Hello Mr Smith, we've noticed that you've been spending your friday mornings at hotel 6 a lot, and while you commit adultery with Ms. Doolan who also spends a lot of time there with you, you may want to consider taking a short detour to Delco Brand Drugstore for some condoms to avoid your wednesday trips to the free VD clinic!"
They can sell information on everyone you called, use speech recognition to monetize the content of your calls. And since you voluntarily brought a phone into your life, why turn off the microphone just because you aren't making a call? Just continuously record everything in the vicinity - there must be a wealth of data there that someone would pay for.
If data-mining of everything that touches the service works for facebook, why not telcos?
Beginning to wake up to the idea? I got out of the cellular biz back in '95, and "location based service" was being talked about then. It's hardly a new idea, and it's one the telcos have been drooling over for more than a decade. Maybe they're finally figuring out ways to make it pay off.
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
I'm almost every day at my cave programming and that stuff. In 2009 I decided to go to the Rally that took place in Cordoba, Argentina (I'm from the neighboring province Santa Fe) and after I went back I started to get spam SMS's that advertised Rally related stuff. I have Telecom Personal and of course, I can confirm they either sell or use (themselves) my location info to at least try to sell me stuff. I can only assume they actually use location data for that and other "darker" purposes.
TomTom has been using cell phone location data, provided by Vodafone, since 2006 for traffic (congestions and travel times) information. See it at work (for free) here: TomTom HD Traffic
Only needs two, the third point of the triangle in "triangulation" is you.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
Draw two points (the two towers you claim are sufficient). Now draw circles around those towers (Representing the information each tower has, your distance from the tower. Make sure they overlap, to represent a situation where the equipment is reporting accurate information.).
Now count the intersections of the circles.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
They can sell information on everyone you called, use speech recognition to monetize the content of your calls. And since you voluntarily brought a phone into your life, why turn off the microphone just because you aren't making a call? Just continuously record everything in the vicinity - there must be a wealth of data there that someone would pay for.
Why stop there? Most phones these days come with at least one camera, many with two. Activate both, and stream the data back to a data collection point. Do image search and color-gradient analysis, pick out those that indicate some hanky panky, hire some folks in the far east for a dollar a day to comb through the video data and pick out only those streams that show people in a comprimising position, and then monetize in one of the following ways:
1. Blackmail your victim^H^H^H^H^H customer (a monthly fee not to tell the missus/mister what you've been up to in your cubical at 10pm last night, or to not send your family intimate pics of your honeymoon, etc.)
2. For those who won't or can't pay, hire another set of people with video editing skills to weave together full length videos of people's intimiate moments, and sell online.
3. Charge a premium for videos of people who 'live near you'.
4. Profit!
Bonus points for those iPhone holding iSlaves ... they can provide the content, but their 'freedom from porn' ensures they can't watch it (at least not on their iShackles).
I mean, it's not as if we have any real rights anyway, once there's a bottom line to be made, and it isn't like this is any creepier than the 'dead peasants insurance' most of our employers have taken out on us already.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Yes and no. Price is the intersection of supply and demand; your statements are focusing exclusively on the demand side of the equation. The supply of bandwidth to deliver SMS messages is virtually infinite since they ride for free on the cellular system's control channels (which is why they are limited to 140 characters). I tried to verify your claim about the price of VCRs versus DVDs (since my recollection is that they both have a retail price of next-to-nothing despite the difference in demand) but I had trouble since Best Buy doesn't even sell a VCR that doesn't also include a DVD player. The only stand-alone VCRs on the Walmart website were specialty models (one with a time-lapse feature the other with PC output) that were more expensive than the cheapest Bluray player. Low demand alone doesn't force a lower price since supply also drops and the item becomes a niche product.
Triangulation isn't hard, but you're doing it wrong.
That IS a scary thought.
I can see AT & FaceGoogle having a a field day with it.
your wallet, cash and credit cards: just swipe your cellphone
your house keys: just swipe your cellphone
your computer: the latest generation of cellphones rival desktops or laptops from 5 years ago, and surpass them in terms of functionality
your gps, your toll booth tag, your subway card, your taxes... everything
kids will get them when they enter kindergarten (and parents will watch their location). you'll carry a cellphone from cradle to grave, and won't be able to live in civilization without one
you practically won't even know your own name without a cellphone, or be able to organize your life, or be able to function in society
the problem is that this makes the cell phone absolutely essential, and therefore the privacy concerns will butt heads with the cellphone's unrivaled functionality, and so most people won't even blink
the only protection from this is a legal framework. no technological solution can exist: you're either on the network, or you're not. and if you are on the network, they control the entry to the network, they set the terms about what device you use, and therefore they own you
i suppose some wifi only concept will exist, but its functionality will be greatly reduced, and the networks will ensure that free wifi won't threaten their dominance
some sort of competition between providers will help keep them honest, so we don't want the world to be swallowed by verizon. but of course the government will be able to snoop on everything, and so, as i said before, only legal limitations on the government's power can possibly curtail this (and even then, they'll snoop with provisions for "reasonable" suspicion or "terrorist related" activity)
inevitable conclusion: the cell phone will kill the concept of privacy in modern society, and functioning in modern society will be impossible without a cellphone
ugly
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I am beginning to see value in turning my phone off and leaving it at home... maybe even turning off service.
Where are our consumer protection agencies when we need them? At every turn, the people we exchange money with are sharing our personal details for further profit. This should be illegal without compensation. If I am used in generating their content, and to be clear I *AM* being used, then I should get a cut of the profit at the very least and most certainly the ability to opt out with complete confirmation and the ability to sue if they violate that status.
Something that needs to be said -
Your cell phone is not truly "off" unless the battery is removed.
We now return you to your regular nonsense....
DISCLAIMER: This post was not checked for speling and grammar- if you complain- you're a whiner
It seems odd that now that the carriers have GPS coordinates of where their subscribers are using their services, that they seem unwilling to use this data (GPS coordinates and dropped calls) to improve their coverage and services where the customer needs it.
Oh, that entails spending money rather than making money. (Fail.)
The Roman Rule: The one who says it cannot be done shall not interrupt the one who is doing it.
Are you a paranoid tin foil hat wearing fool like myself. Do you worry 'they' are tracking you on your Iphone and want certain or all of your apps to appear like you are in Antarctica?
Well there is an app for that!
http://thebigboss.org/2010/01/13/location-spoofer
Not my product just a happy customer.
"(I) have this unfortunate condition that causes me not to believe a single thing any politician says when a mic's on.
We really, really need phones to make it easy to lie about location. For your average person in the U.S., it is becoming increasingly untenable to not carry a cell phone with them most of the time. Which means we all have the equivalent of a parole ankle bracelet on us at all times. This is more than a little dangerous.
I don't care if FourSquare's business model depends on phones being honest - that's thier problem. I want an easy to use app that will report the location *I* want to indicate. Bonus points for feeding in GPS tracks. It is *my* phone, not the phone company's, not the government's, not FourSquare's.
I do realize that tower triangulation and whatnot get in the way of successful lying, and that's fine. I can control that aspect of phone reporting. As of now, I know of no good way to control the GPS.
I forget what 8 was for.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangulation Triangulation In trigonometry and geometry, triangulation is the process of determining the location of a point by measuring angles to it from known points at either end of a fixed baseline, rather than measuring distances to the point directly. The point can then be fixed as the third point of a triangle with one known side and two known angles.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
If you have an iPhone read the EULA for the AT&T app where you can pay your bills. Besides recording your location when you use the app there is no limit to what they can do with data collected while using the app.
I hope for their sake that they have a team of lawyers assembled.
Indeed its not hard, but you are referring to trilateration, not triangulation. Being a smartarse isn't hard either, but you're doing it wrong.
What he can't kill, he has sex on. Trent.
"Government subsidized telcos"? Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha! Good one. There hasn't been a government subsidized telco in the US since, well, ever.
Have you never heard of the Universal Service Fund, the roughly $7-8 billion / year subsidy that taxpayers send to telecom companies to expand service to rural areas?
Also, AT&T and others have been beneficiaries of the NIST's ATP and TIP R&D subsidies for years.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
I know that they WILL go there. There is something inherently wrong with this. I *DO* expect privacy through anonymity when in public -- regardless of what the frakin' government says the public expects. They say that to merely justify a surveillance society of spy cameras, like the UK.
Now the govt gets to use a proxy agent (cell phone companies) to track the public. Now all they have to do is request the data from the phone companies. It is no different than if the govt directly tracked every citizen 24x7. And now it is oh so easy... since we are all suspected terrorist... no warrant required.
Can you spell ... screwed? With a capital "F"????
I remember just after 9/11, the telcos pretended like they'd suddenly come up with an innovative way to locate victims' bodies based on cell phone pings. Like some industrious guru sitting in their basement came up with the idea over his bagel and coffee. I remember cocking and eyebrow then. I"m harumphing now.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
I wish they would figure out that people want service everywhere, and implement it.
I drive the I-10 through West Texas, and see a huge (250-foot?) cell tower every mile or so.
But it's worth fuck-all to me if I can't get Google Maps to work because they refuse to put new equipment on those towers to handle data services.
And there are stretches with no apparent topographic issues where you can't even get voice.
They don't need GPS data to know that they're fucking me over on coverage. I call them constantly to tell them where it's happening. They do nothing more than lie to me about how they're "improving" it. It's a game we play, and then I move to another carrier and the previous one doesn't get my money until he comes around on the carousel again.
Search for "loopt" to take a look. It appears that AT&T has already opted everybody into it, and you can pay money to track your friends who haven't specifically opted out. I was able to opt out on the online payment area ... I only found it by digging around the preferences.
Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
To clarify I doubt they are using GPS for this. Many phones do have GPS capability and it can often be disabled. Most likely they are just triangulating your position using their towers. GPS uses satellites.
even if it was just your name and address and where you lived. I've had cable, phone and local utilities, government agencies, magazines, newspapers, grocery stores, clubs and a plethora of businesses you'd not suspect. People are out there who buy that and can merge it and have a lot of information on an individual.
It will go on until it's legal for the abused to kill them without consequence.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
i am completely against having my geolocation determined by my cell-phone company.
i was unable to find a carrier that offered a contract in which i DIDN'T waver my rights to be tracked the last time I comparison-shopped.
i'm especially against having the data mined and sold, anonymized or not.
how do i avoid this? is it possible, or is the only answer not to have a cell-phone?
They usually also look at known nearby WiFi hotspots - it's what Google is gathering that data with their vans, for example.
You can mine my movements all you want, you can even sell the info to the highest bidder, but it's worthless, I assure you. I cannot be marketed to in this way, I don't click on ads on my computer unless I am personally searching for a product... basically, to use an old analogy, I don't buy anything over the phone unless I initiated the call. So there is no way for you to get money out of me, more effectively, or indeed at all, by simply knowing my location. Sorry, you can't do it. Knowing where I am and attempting to bombard me with advertisements won't work. I am fairly confident I am not the only one who defends his hard-earned dollars that way, so the people who might sell this information are tricking the assholes who might pay for it, and so I just have to laugh, since what's being sold is utterly worthless as far as I am concerned. They might as well be making the information up.
This case doesn't apply here.
One that hath name thou can not otter