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Getting Paid Fairly When Job Responsibilities Spiral?

greymond writes "I was originally hired as an Online Content Producer to write articles for a company website as well as start up the company's social media outlets on Facebook and Twitter. With budget cuts and layoffs I ended up also taking over the website facilitation for three of the company's websites (they let go of the current webmaster). During this time the company has been developing a new website and I was handed the role of pseudo project manager to make sure the developer stayed on course with the project's due date. Now that we're closer to launch the company has informed me that they don't have the budget or staff in place to set up the web server and have tasked me with setting up the LAMP and Zend App on an Amazon EC2 setup. While it's been years since I worked this much with Linux I'm picking it up and moving things along. Needless to say I want to ask for more money, as well as more resources (as well as a better title that fits my roles), but what is the best way to go about this? Of course my other thought is that I'd much rather go back to writing and working with marketing than getting back into IT."

139 of 495 comments (clear)

  1. The main issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In this economy, You are pretty replaceble, according to what you say your skills are. So you are behind the eightball.

    1. Re:The main issue by tsm_sf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      He's basically stated that his company isn't willing to pay the going rate for the work he does. They could certainly fill his position, and they might get lucky with some bright kid fresh out of school, but if his boss is competent he'll know that anyone willing to take a cut in pay will also move on at the earliest opportunity. He's not going to get fired for asking for a raise unless there are large problems with the company or the employee.

      He could probably go for a minor raise, but the opportunity is ripe for picking up a few quality of life perks. Something that costs the company nothing, like a new job title, would be perfect. Maybe try to weasel some time to work from home or flex hours, or maybe just a new chair.

      Being able to point to a spreadsheet showing the increase in workload would be pretty handy.

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
    2. Re:The main issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The going rate for what he does is what the company can get away paying someone to do the job. Look at the situation through the lens of game theory. You have one actor, the company, whose best interest is to keep their costs low and profits high -- one way of doing that is to lower overall personnel costs by having one person take over the responsibilities of three or four. On the other side you have the employee, who has described their case above. Currently the company is able to have a large win because the employee is 'cooperating' while the company is playing the role of a defector.

    3. Re:The main issue by XopherMV · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In this economy, You are pretty replaceble, according to what you say your skills are. So you are behind the eightball.

      That may have been true at the beginning of the year, but that's not the case any longer. Of the nine developers in my department, four have found new jobs within the past month. Another has threatened to leave and accepted a counter-offer to stay with the company. People are sick of the BS they received from management over the past year and are ready, willing, and able to jump ship now. Expect a lot of churn within companies over the next several months until this all settles down.

    4. Re:The main issue by CAIMLAS · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Replaceable, in what way?

      Sure, someone could fill his shoes. That's a possibility, but it's slim: there is usually a lot more to an IT job (whether it's developer or sysadmin) than just what the job requirements demonstrate.

      A professional position of any complexity has a non-trivial amount of daily tasks, procedures, and general business process which need to be understood before a person can fully and successfully "fill" the position. Sure, you might be a "Linux Administrator" or a "LAMP developer" but chances are the environment you're coming into is not identical to the one you're coming from: the administrator(s) and developer(s) did things differently. There will be varying degrees of documentation, thoroughness, stupidity, and so on.

      All that takes time to acclimate to and adjust for: it takes a lot longer if you're an idiot. Many environments can 'skate by' with an idiot at the helm for some time, but eventually it will catch up. Hiring someone who isn't an idiot will (typically) cost quite a bit of money (even in this economy).

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    5. Re:The main issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your argument seems to be that the employee is getting paid appropriately because that's what the company is paying him and he hasn't left yet. It's not a very useful analysis of the situation.

    6. Re:The main issue by forkazoo · · Score: 4, Funny

      He could probably go for a minor raise, but the opportunity is ripe for picking up a few quality of life perks. Something that costs the company nothing, like a new job title, would be perfect. Maybe try to weasel some time to work from home or flex hours, or maybe just a new chair.

      When I was last in the corporate world, we strictly acquired perks like nicer chairs and our own white boards via commando-style raids. We would actually have strategic planning meetings for the raids. The 8 pm Network Operations shift change was our standard time, and the 5th floor our standard target.

      That said, the OP will never get what he's worth at his current job. He deserves it. A great boss would give it to him, but it'll probably never happen. He's in the corporate equivalent of the "friend zone." His best hope for exploiting the situation is to get as much experience as possible, and the most inflated title possible, and try and use that as leverage when moving on to the next job.

      I was hired as a data entry grunt for my first job as a programmer. I got something like a token 50 cent an hour raise for the move because management valued me, and appreciated the fact that it turned out I was more skilled than they initially expected when I was hired for the grunt job. But, there was no way they were going to double my salary after I had already demonstrated I was willing to do higher level work for the entry level pay.

      So, in conclusion, it is a tactical error to do all the work you can without getting any of the money upfront; and the fifth floor will never muster adequate defenses to be able to repel (or even track) an elite squad of NOC monkeys.

    7. Re:The main issue by Mr.+Freeman · · Score: 2, Informative

      "When I was last in the corporate world, we strictly acquired perks like nicer chairs and our own white boards via commando-style raids. We would actually have strategic planning meetings for the raids. The 8 pm Network Operations shift change was our standard time, and the 5th floor our standard target."

      In most of the companies I know, you'd be written up or fired within 8 hours of pulling such a stunt.

      --
      -1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
    8. Re:The main issue by tsm_sf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In most of the companies I know, you'd be written up or fired within 8 hours of pulling such a stunt.

      Weird. I could see a manager telling kids to settle down and put the shit back. I could also see the manager telling the boss that kids need to blow off steam when they work their asses off. Writing someone up or firing them seems more like an ego move than business sense, but then it seems like a lot of people want to be businessmen more than they want to do business.

      --
      Literalism isn't a form of humor, it's you being irritating.
    9. Re:The main issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "He's basically stated that his company isn't willing to pay the going rate for the work he does."

      But that's the fundamental problem, is that actually true?

      We don't know his wage, but it does not sound like the skills required for his job are particularly uncommon. Regardless, I myself was in this situation recently, although my issue was not so much wideness of scope and skills required, simply that I had progressed my skillset and was working at a level well beyond my original remit.

      The only solution is to first figure out if you can get a higher paid job elsewhere with your skillset, if you can then you need to tell this to your boss, your HR department or whoever is the best bet at your workplace- it may be that you have a good relationship with a director you can raise it with. Your choice then is simply to play a game of brinksmanship with you telling them you intend to leave unless there is an improvement in your wage, it may be that they call your bluff then you simply must be willing to leave- after all, if you're heavily underpaid for your skillset what's holding you back? surely if what's said is true you can just find a better paid job elsewhere?

      This was my situation and for me it worked, I simply told them I intended to start looking for jobs elsewhere as I felt I was underpaid and got an $11,000 pay rise out of it. The point in my case that I knew full well I could get a job elsewhere for that wage, and I knew full well that I could do so extremely easily- in my case I simply did a job search on jobsearch.co.uk and monster.com and came up with over 50 matches all paying more than I was on at the time. It was hard for them to argue against it because they knew their only choice was to pay me closer to my worth, or end up paying even more again in recruitment costs and losing productivity to someone new on the job. Further, such a large amount of jobs seeking my skillset suggests it wouldn't take me more than a week or two to get such a job, even in this climate of 2.5 million unemployed in the UK. It's clearly a skillset that demands more pay and is greatly sought after, that there may even be a shortage of- effectively if I'm the seller, it's a sellers market, I can choose the price.

      So it really comes down to this- if you really are underpaid, if you really could be earning more elsewhere, then offer your company that choice, of either paying you what you're worth, or simply go elsewhere.

      I suspect anyone saying they're not paid what they're worth but not being willing to give such an ultimatum isn't actually as confident as they say they are in terms of being able to get paid as much as they think they're worth elsewhere. I suspect such a person is paid what they're worth, but simply wants more money for nothing.

      You're not going to get money for nothing though, if you have nothing to back up your assertion you deserve more pay, if you can be replaced tommorrow, then you either need to skill yourself up to a point where it's your market too, and you decide the wage, or you need to quit whining.

    10. Re:The main issue by Narpak · · Score: 2, Interesting

      [quote]He could probably go for a minor raise, but the opportunity is ripe for picking up a few quality of life perks.[/quote] What might be considered is asking for official courses in as many areas under his responsibility as possible. While it isn't as good as a raise, increased expertise and understanding would benefit the company, and at least having (recent) documentation that he really do know these things can only help when applying for future jobs.

    11. Re:The main issue by smchris · · Score: 2, Funny

      On moving on:

      "That's another way we recognize our best employees"

      -- Ever so sage Dilbert

    12. Re:The main issue by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In most of the companies I know, you'd be written up or fired within 8 hours of pulling such a stunt. Weird. I could see a manager telling kids to settle down and put the shit back. I could also see the manager telling the boss that kids need to blow off steam when they work their asses off. Writing someone up or firing them seems more like an ego move than business sense, but then it seems like a lot of people want to be businessmen more than they want to do business.

      The first time, sure. The second time, you have to put a stop to it. The only place I know of where you could get away with this was in the military; where it was "procuring through alternate channels the stuff you really needed to get the job done." Plus, you could hide it on the boat until you put to sea.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    13. Re:The main issue by ImOnlySleeping · · Score: 3, Informative

      The company doesn't need to pay the going rate because this guy is doing it for less.

      --
      Everybody seems to think I'm lazy I don't mind, I think they're crazy
    14. Re:The main issue by Nick+Ives · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But it's the only view that counts. The firm I work for advertises new vacancies at the lowest rate they think they can get away with and, if nobody shows up at that rate who fits the bill, they then advertise at a higher rate. This leads to all sorts of peculiarities like less experienced, new starters being paid more than old hands.

      The question, in the companies mind, is how can they get away with paying as low a rate as possible whilst keeping staff? Replacing old staff is expensive so it's best to avoid doing it, therefore the firm should pay people only so much as to stop them leaving.

      If the OP can generate the impression that he could leave easily and still be OK then that puts him in a much stronger position whilst talking about a pay rise.

      --
      Nick
    15. Re:The main issue by Kevin108 · · Score: 5, Funny

      From on of my favorite Dilbert strips:

      An employee is being interviewed by the manager. He asks, "How do you reward your best performing employees?"

      The manager replies, "We increase their workload until their performance becomes average."

      --

      It's a perfect time for being wasted.
      A perfect time to watch the stars.
      - Burden Brothers, "Beautiful Night"
    16. Re:The main issue by hal2814 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Seriously, the only way workers have been paid what they're worth under capitalism is when they organize."

      When I feel I'm being asked to work too much, not getting paid what I should, or just generally feel I'm being under-appreciated at work, I go right home and organize. I put together my resume and my contacts and start setting up a space on my laptop to track everywhere I've submitted resumes and which particular resume and cover letter I submitted. I also put notes on who I've talked to and the status of those talks. In about 3-4 months, I generally get exactly what I want. Once it took up to 6 months. And I'm not a terrible job hopper. In 10 years, I have worked for 4 companies(4 years, 1 year, 4 years, and 1 for my current employer). So you're absolutely right. There does come a time when a worker must organize and find a place where he (or she) can be appreciated for his (or her) talents. Oh, you mean unions? I guess you can if you want, but I get better results on my own.

    17. Re:The main issue by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I believe his argument is more like what happened to me:

      - You open your mouth and ask about getting paid for the overtime you're working (i.e. getting paid for the new tasks they keep piling on you)
      - They don't want to pay you, so they find an excuse to get rid of you (watching CNN while eating your lunch)
      - You get replaced by another guy who doesn't mind working 50 hours and only paid 40.
      - And then you end-up sitting at home.

      Just be happy you have a job. There are various ways you can "compensate" yourself for the increased workload, without pissing off the boss(es) by asking for a raise. Like taking full advantage of the free printers to run-off resumes and look for a new job.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    18. Re:The main issue by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 2, Informative

      What I do is go on reliablilty first, time of completion of tasks, if it is a male or female: IE I have given raises and next thing I know she is preganant and that pisses me off

      As a non-CEO of a non-Corporation I can tell you that you should have consulted your attorneys before admitting to that, and if you really think /. is anonymous...enjoy your golden parachute.

    19. Re:The main issue by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just be happy you have a job. There are various ways you can "compensate" yourself for the increased workload, without pissing off the boss(es) by asking for a raise. Like taking full advantage of the free printers to run-off resumes and look for a new job.

      Employers just love the "be happy you have a job" attitude. But really, there's only so much compensation you can make up from the office supplies cabinet.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    20. Re:The main issue by teg · · Score: 2, Insightful

      you never get paid what you're worth

      But what are you worth? There are multiple ways to look at this. One would be to simply look at "what would someone else be willing to do this for", either locally or globally. Another is "of what value is the work I do". Typically, the latter would be higher than the former - so the closer you can get your compensation to this level, the better off you are. This is one of the major reasons how brokers, executive-level management manage to get astronomical levels of compensation

      Unionizing is how grunts try to get some of the same treatment, to be paid what their work is worth to the employer rather than what they'd have to pay replacements. At some points in history, that has definitely brought society forward - while at other times, it has gotten stale and corrupted and has negative effects.

    21. Re:The main issue by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yep, this has worked pretty well for me too.

      However, this strategy only works when there's many different employers to choose from. It's just like free-market theory: in a free market, buyers (or in this case, employers and employees) can pick and choose who they want to buy from out of a large field of sellers, and in theory, the crappy sellers (with excessive prices, poor quality, poor service, etc.) eventually go out of business. However, there are cases where the market is distorted: these are called "monopolies" (and cartels, oligopolies, etc.). That's when allowing the free market to work doesn't work, because there is no free market, there's only one seller of a partcular product/service, so government regulation becomes necessary.

      This has also been the case for some employers, where there was only one large employer in a town or city. In that case, simply switching jobs isn't an option for workers, because there's nowhere else to go.

      Luckily, this isn't the case much any more, now that "company towns" (where they even paid workers in "scrip" instead of money) are extinct, and extremely large city-dominating manufacturers are mostly gone.

      This is why I think one big and important role for government is to "bust up" large companies, and make it very difficult for companies to become too large, and if they do, regulate them heavily. Large corporations are the bane of free markets. It's not a "free market" if there's only one place to buy something from (especially if it's something necessary, like power, water, or communications), or if there's only 2 or 3 places and they're all colluding. In an ideal free market, there should be a large number of small companies, and that's it. This makes it much easier for buyers to find the best deal, and for employees likewise to find the best deal, and keeps competition high between the sellers/employers.

    22. Re:The main issue by Grishnakh · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why did the company I work for except I needed a pay rise? precisely because I the cheapest option was to pay me what I'm worth, rather than risk losing months of productivity on a new member of staff, and having to pay them the same as I requested and employment costs on top.

      I don't know about companies in the UK, but over here in the USA, you're really screwing yourself by asking for a raise, because they usually WILL look for a way to get rid of you when it's convenient for them, because you've just shown yourself to be "disloyal".

      It absolutely does not matter that recruiting a new person and waiting for them to come up to speed will cost a lot more than just paying you market rate. You're thinking too rationally here. These companies are run by greedy, power-hungry sociopaths, and they'll shoot themselves in the foot if it means being able to screw over an employee they don't like. Why do you think so many of our companies are able to run themselves straight into the ground despite having good funding and talented employees?

      Over here, your best bet is to just interview for a new job, and take it. Don't try to get a raise. Companies DO NOT want to give out raises (except maybe 1%), that's just all there is to it. They want a workforce of pussies who will take whatever pay the company gives them, work 60-80 hours/week, come in on weekends, and never complain or go elsewhere. These companies probably think that if they fire enough "disloyal" employees who do look elsewhere, that they'll eventually have a stable population of "loyal" employees who never complain that their salary is 50% of market rate. It doesn't help that there's actually a substantial number of employees who really are like this (at least in my field, engineering).

    23. Re:The main issue by Grishnakh · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm pretty sure he was joking, and he's not the CEO of any major corporation. He's just playing a stereotype, which is a very accurate one BTW. He could have done a little better with his post, however. He should have talked about how denying raises gives him a bigger bonus so he can buy a bigger yacht.

    24. Re:The main issue by forkazoo · · Score: 2, Informative

      LOL reminds me of the time I worked for Citibank. I was on the overnight shift and there were few people in the building so we regularly staged "midnight acquisition raids" on different areas of the building. He's right though, sometimes the only way to get your perks is to take matters in your own hands.

      I was at a place that used to be part of Lehman Brothers. I guess well executed commando raids may be somewhat exclusive to the financial sector. I'm not sure how I feel about that, but it feels oddly correct.

      And, to all the people who think a person would be fired for it... You seem to misunderstand the nature of the commando raid. You don't wander around going, "Hey everybody, I got my new chair by taking it!!! Everybody come look!!!" Among other things, we would steal chairs from the 5th floor, and assign them randomly to people in rows near us to see if there was any response first. Once we had used unwilling patsies for the "training missions," we were able to establish the safety parameters. The overnight guys would then assign a nice chair to the cube next to them so that they could have a nice chair overnight, but them move it to the patsy's cube during the day when anybody might be around to look for it. Because we were moving slowly, I think most people assumed that the cleaning crew was occasionally getting chairs mixed up when they pulled them out of the cubes to vacuum. When a person from our group was going to be assigned a nice chair in a commando raid, they might be seen to leave a little early, so that if there was a new chair in their cube the next morning, everybody knew they had nothing to do with it. (And we had already deployed a handful of random nice chairs to people who knew that they weren't in on it, so they would have no reason to make any accusation.)

      Also, since we were one of the only groups that was in the office late, we got to be good friends with security, so we knew for sure that the only major intelligence resource in the building was sufficiently loyal to us.

      Like a third of the department was former military. We ran clean operations.

    25. Re:The main issue by fractoid · · Score: 2, Informative

      Even if you DO pay them for 160 hours a week, most people can't manage more than 40ish productive hours in a week over the long term, and even during crunch time, any hours past about 80-90 hours a week ends up being increasingly unproductive.

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    26. Re:The main issue by jwhitener · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're living in an era that has already benefited from past labor union work. I assume you enjoy weekends and 8 hour days right? Thank unions.

      A business constantly pushes for more profit, and if left uncheck, say goodbye to weekends, 8 hour days, and good wages. Unions are the only source pushing back.

      Do unions sometimes make unreasonable requests and push back too hard? Of course. But without their existence, we'd be back to 10-12-14 hour days, no weekends, and slave wages.

    27. Re:The main issue by DedTV · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yep. Same thing happened to me.

      I, along with 31 other people (plus one department manager and 3 shift managers) were hired to do end user technical support and basic QC work for a company web site (a research service) at $8/hr. 8 years later we had a staff of 15 (covered by a total of 6 managers who didn't seem to do anything at all) with half the vacation time and 3 times higher medical benefit payments than we had when I started due to a "benefit restructuring" 4 years into my employment when we were bought out by a larger company.

      And our job duties had gone from supporting that one website to supporting 9 websites and 130 specialized CD-Rom products; most with wildly different technical formats (they dissolved the 4 companies and dropped 2 support contracts that used to handle support for them), handling billing support phone calls (they dissolved the billing department), handling customer orientation calls and doing customer training (they eliminated the sales support staff that used to do that), filing new paperwork (sales support and billing paperwork that was handled by those departments), scanning old paper documents into electronic documents (they were going to hire people to do it, but decided to drop it on us), sorting and addressing marketing flyers (over 8 years the marketing department went from 25 people to 3 and we got their spillover), processing returns on products due to incorrect mailing addresses (the mail department over 8 years went from 6 people to one semi-retired old lady who worked part time 3 days a week), handling internal support calls when some sales rep's computer was so bogged down with adware that it would blue screen 5 or 6 times a day (they dissolved the Internal Help Desk department), and any of a half dozen or more "special projects" that were dumped on us from sister companies, other departments, or stuff the mangers and their assistants should be doing but just "didn't have time" for.

      But I got supremely lucky and ended up becoming financially secure when my parents' business got bought out for an insane amount of money (I got 10% which was enough to ensure I could live fairly well without ever having to work again). I didn't tell anyone about it but I did start saying I wouldn't take on more responsibilities unless there was an appropriate increase in pay and benefits when they'd try to drop more and more work on us. I wasn't being beligerant or anything. Just reasonable. I wanted to keep working because I have a family and am no socialite, I liked most of the people I worked with, and sitting around the house watching TV every day would drive me mad pretty quickly. But I also didn't have to eat crap and smile about it.

      Within 3 months, suddenly my submission of a daily report we each had to submit into a database (that had no activity logs attached to it and which the managers all had full admin access to) suddenly wasn't appearing in the database at the end of the week. My assertion that I was submitting it was countered (if he was doing it, they'd be there. Everyone else's is!) by the managers I'd become a PITA to and I was fired for not being "capable of performing basic job duties". Which was nothing less than I expected. Although I didn't think they'd be quite that sleazy about it. After all, I'm in an at-will work state, they could have just said GTFO without contriving false incompetance.

      But, it did serve notice to everyone else working there just what sort of employer that place had become. And it started a chain reaction. That was just about 3 years ago. Within 6 months of me getting fired all but one person in the department had found a new job and left the company and not a one gave any notice (and when the last one graduates from College next year, he's outta there). Within a year they'd lost half their customers to competitors because the support and training had become attrocious due the fact that the economy hadn't tanked yet and most of the people they could get to stay past the first 2 weeks were a bunch o

  2. Dear Playboy, it happened to me by AnAdventurer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I was in the same spot, hired as a web content person, next thing I knew I was IT manager for the corporation doing PC support, hands-on sever, PBX, twisted pair, web development and CSM rec, integration and more. I was working 60-80 a week and after 6 months I got a "good job" and no raise, another 2 months and I had to ask for a raise. I got a big "why and NO", needless to say my enjoyment of my job went to zero and it showed. I was asked to resign 3 weeks later. They has to hired 2 people to replace me.

    --
    6.8SPC TR of 550, l xwind at 6, drift rt at 26" drops 77". AT has 503 ft-lbs at 1403 fps. FT 0.86
    1. Re:Dear Playboy, it happened to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I got a big "why and NO", needless to say my enjoyment of my job went to zero and it showed. I was asked to resign 3 weeks later.

      FYI, being fired had nothing to do with your perceived level of enjoyment. They didn't like you and were looking to get rid of you all along.

    2. Re:Dear Playboy, it happened to me by williamhb · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I was in the same spot, hired as a web content person, next thing I knew I was IT manager for the corporation doing PC support, hands-on sever, PBX, twisted pair, web development and CSM rec, integration and more. I was working 60-80 a week and after 6 months I got a "good job" and no raise, another 2 months and I had to ask for a raise. I got a big "why and NO", needless to say my enjoyment of my job went to zero and it showed. I was asked to resign 3 weeks later. They has to hired 2 people to replace me.

      So this is part of the issue: under those circumstances what you ask for is not a "raise" but an appointment to the position you are doing (which co-incidentally happens to come with a jump in salary). If they see it as "Joe Bloggs wants more money" they'll tend to say no. HR and management are well-practiced in trying to minimise salary creep across their organisations. If they see it as "Joe Bloggs is asking to step up to the next stage of his career, he's clearly been gaining the experience necessary, and if we say no he's likely to take that step up elsewhere" they are more likely to say yes. HR and management are also well-versed in how they are *supposed* to support career-development (even though it takes prodding to get them to do it), and the fact they have given you extra responsibilities suggests you are an employee they don't want to lose. Of course, you also have to be 'not bluffing' -- if they don't move on the appointment, don't be grumpy but just go elsewhere using the experience and skills they have given you. It's a small world, and you may well end up working for them again in a more senior role later.

    3. Re:Dear Playboy, it happened to me by BiggerIsBetter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think this should be a usual problem - how do you people solve this?

      Man up. Or at least accept the offers - it doesn't take a lot of courage to say yes.

      --
      Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
    4. Re:Dear Playboy, it happened to me by IntlHarvester · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The important thing to understand is that promotions aren't about the past, you owe me, I deserve it, etc etc. They are about the future and what potential at the company you have. I've found that as long as you are positioning the conversation that way, there is almost no harm in asking for more money.

      And yeah, grow a pair. You will never get paid any more than what you ask for.

      --
      Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
    5. Re:Dear Playboy, it happened to me by Surt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is pretty easy to handle:
      Find out what the fair salary is for your job, call that X. Tell your boss that you thought about what he said, and after reviewing salary information, it seems like X + 10% would be fair.

      A lot of people are telling you to man up, but not how to do it. You are afraid to hurt your boss. Be more afraid to hurt your (possibly future) children by depriving them of a great college education, or the backing of their first business venture, etc, because you didn't earn a fair wage. Put the lives of people you love before the life of your boss, who is clearly prepared to do the right thing anyway.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    6. Re:Dear Playboy, it happened to me by dcollins · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Disagree. This is a "Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence" situation.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    7. Re:Dear Playboy, it happened to me by primerib · · Score: 5, Interesting

      When you ask for a raise or a promotion, you are upping the ante and entering into a haggling situation. You are implicitly saying "Scrutinize me and you'll find that my skills and contributions to the company far exceed my level of compensation, to the point that there's a real chance of another company offering me superior compensation". Remember, the vast majority of companies won't give a raise because it's the fair thing to do, they give a raise because it's a better value to secure that employee's skills in the workplace than to risk having them hired up by another company. That said, the best advice I've been given is to never ask for a raise unless you have a job offer from another company in hand.

      Beyond that, all the companies I've worked at as an adult have had an unwritten policy of saying "No, why?" to anyone's first raise request. This makes sense because for a good portion of people requesting raises you will be calling their bluff; they will either back down and take the same pay they had, or show through their actions that they weren't worth a raise at all. A select few will come back with a bargaining chip and an ultimatum ("This is what the market says about my value, and these will be the consequences of you not giving me a raise"), and ask for a second raise... In my experience, these are the people who actually have a real chance of getting a raise. Additionally, some of the companies I worked at had policies in place that required both HR and the employee's direct management to approve a raise, so there was no way they could say 'Yes' the first time someone asked.

      As it stands, you asked your company to intensely scrutinize your contributions to the workplace and then immediately showed them that your job at their company isn't important to you.
      If I were your manager, I probably would've fired you too. My logic would have been: "Hmm, so he asked for a raise because he must have received a job offer, and after the initial meeting he's no longer doing his work... That would indicate that he has accepted a position at another company and was using the raise question here as leverage for negotiations at his new job. He has no intention of staying, and his continued presence in the workplace is a risk to the company".

    8. Re:Dear Playboy, it happened to me by Billly+Gates · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Keep in mind they could have liked him but could not afford to have him quit if he *is* I.T. at the company. Employers sometimes fire based on someone asking for a raise because its a sign he or she might quit or the raise is too much and needs to be scaled back. Some I.T. departments fire employees who look for work elsewhere or interview because its a security threat with those who have confidential data and a history of an ex-worker abusing it. I am sure the lawyers advise to do this and I have read stories about this on slashdot and comments supporting this.

      Not all employers are like this but many are in this economy. Never assume anything when a poor sap losses his or her job. Half the time it is politics or some dumb reasons described above and half due to incompetence. If you're a teacher like your sig says you understand then. How many teachers in non-union or non tenured are let go?

    9. Re:Dear Playboy, it happened to me by Klinky · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe employers should be up front with people about their responsibilities and pay. Doing a Bait & Switch with job responsibilities and then ignoring these actions is just a way for the company to leech the most out of you. Frankly I think it'd be important to remind your manager of your job title before you start doing stuff outside of your job description. Companies will take, take, take & give as little as they possibly can in return.

    10. Re:Dear Playboy, it happened to me by Phoobarnvaz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe employers should be up front with people about their responsibilities and pay. Doing a Bait & Switch with job responsibilities and then ignoring these actions is just a way for the company to leech the most out of you. Frankly I think it'd be important to remind your manager of your job title before you start doing stuff outside of your job description. Companies will take, take, take & give as little as they possibly can in return.

      This is the way it is right now...but what about in the future? Was reading the other day that if other jobs were available...many people (over 50%) would jump in a heartbeat. With this being the case...I understand businesses are into the here and now...rather than what will happen when their employees are able to head somewhere else. What sob story will the business pull to keep all the employees they screwed over during this time when "the rats start jumping ship"?

      Am a very firm believer in karma & the biblical Golden Rule...since these businesses will eventually reap what they've sowed. I hear very few stories about businesses doing right by their employees...but stories right and left about them not doing right.

      --
      Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia. - Charles M. Schulz
  3. Welcome to the world... by dugjohnson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You are the owner of a company called you.  You are experiencing feature creep from your main and only client, your employer.  Assuming you are still responsible for what you were originally hired for, you need to point out that you are now being asked to do a lot more than you originally signed on to do, and that you need to reach a new understanding that will work for both of you.

    Be professional.  Be firm.  You might want to read some back blogs by Bob Lewis, as he covers this kind of stuff all the time.

    A couple of examples
    http://www.infoworld.com/d/adventures-in-it/when-raises-dry-negotiate-hard-get-what-you-deserve-404
    http://www.infoworld.com/d/adventures-in-it/be-your-own-boss-even-if-you-have-boss-037

    --
    My brain is overly lubricated
    1. Re:Welcome to the world... by Luke+has+no+name · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why do you post in monotype?

    2. Re:Welcome to the world... by Nikker · · Score: 4, Funny

      Maybe he talks in monotone?

      --
      A loop, by its nature, continues. If that didn't make sense, start reading this sentence again.
    3. Re:Welcome to the world... by fm6 · · Score: 2, Informative

      He entered the comment in code mode.

      http://slashdot.org/faq/com-mod.shtml#cm2300

    4. Re:Welcome to the world... by Kenoli · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why do you post in monotype?

      He must do it to make sure his comment is simply skipped over.

      I naturally tend to ignore anything with unusual formatting. It's like they're shouting "Look at me! Look at me!". No, shut up.

    5. Re:Welcome to the world... by PhunkySchtuff · · Score: 4, Funny

      Don't you mean:

      Because it's like a console. To UNIX and *NIX people, this is very cool. I suppo
      rt his posting in monotype, and encourage him to continue doing so. Long live th
      e console!

    6. Re:Welcome to the world... by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 4, Funny

      Monotype is a corporate standard across the entire company called you.

    7. Re:Welcome to the world... by oiron · · Score: 2, Funny

      Captain Kirk! Is that you?

    8. Re:Welcome to the world... by Aphex+Junkie · · Score: 4, Funny

      He just kept talking in one long incredibly unbroken sentence moving from topic to topic so that no one had a chance to interrupt
      it was really quite hypnotic

    9. Re:Welcome to the world... by Peach+Rings · · Score: 2, Funny

      I have learned to love fixed width. It's great for sending financial data, because you can generate a spread sheet in a plane text e-mail

      *horror*

    10. Re:Welcome to the world... by ygslash · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You are the owner of a company called you... Be professional. Be firm...

      Bad idea as a first move. By doing this, you are effectively quitting your current job, and at the same time looking for a new one at the same company.

      First, look around for other opportunities, without letting on at work that you are the least bit dissatisfied. In the meantime, be diligent, work hard, and show that you are proud of your good work. That positive attitude will surely help you find a better position, either at your current company or at another.

      Once you have an outside offer, that is the time to start the negotiations. Even then, don't tell them yet that you have another offer. If they say yes, they'll never have to know, and your relationship with your employer will stay positive and strong. If they say no, you'll both understand that it means it's time part ways. They'll be happy to hear that you're not out in the cold.

  4. Wait until 1 month to launch by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Then tell them "More money or I go. Yes, I know that I'm basically what the whole thing hangs on. I'm your project manager, your web monkey, your server manager, your everything, basically. So, let's discuss my payment, title and other job perks".

    But phrase it nicely. Managers don't like to have a dagger at their throat. Even if they basically handed it to you.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  5. You have one option... by masdog · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Dust off your resume and start updating it. You probably won't get more money or a new title unless you threaten to leave. At that point, they'll look to replace you anyway, so you might as well find a new job.

    1. Re:You have one option... by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Might as well either way. This company is going to be out of business within 24 months. It's dead already it just hasn't realized it.

      Every dieing company always finds one poor sucker to actually run it as long as it'll go. The engine is dead you're just out behind pushing it.

      I had a friend who asked for an extremely meager pay raise and change in title. Not even an improved title, just a title he liked better! Like Programmer vs Developer type title change. They both denied his raise and then also denied his title change request. He quit and along with him went a huge portion of the company's clients.

      I've seen this happen over and over again. It always ends the same.

      Ask for your raise. Ask for your title change. But know that you're working for a zombie. And the first day that they're late on a paycheck quit because you're never getting any more.

  6. More Information Needed by fat_mike · · Score: 2, Interesting

    How long have you worked there?

    What's your education level (do you have a degree)?

    How is your relationship with your boss?

    Do you have another job offer you could use as leverage

    I don't know why the first post above got modded zero because unfortunately the AC is correct. Its nothing personal.

    If they can't afford to complete projects then it is very likely they can't afford to give you a raise. Then again you are essentially exceeding your job description. If they hired you to write and then asked you to also edit other articles, that's one thing but they're asking you to take on a whole other role in a different department. I am curious though, how much does a writer for a blog site pull down?

  7. Just ask. by MrCrassic · · Score: 2, Informative

    You and your client need web servers to launch the site. It's as simple as that. Tell them that if they can't afford cloud-based hosting, the alternative is a local solution that YOU (or whoever you hire) will be fully responsible for, from software maintenance all the way down to help desk support. Make sure they know that this is MUCH more expensive (because you WILL charge them accordingly for this, right?) and is not recommended (because I hope you value your time).

    If I'm reading the problem right, I find it very irresponsible that the client went ahead with a website redesign project without thinking this far ahead. I hope they didn't rely on you to provide everything, because that definitely tells me they were looking for someone to abuse.

    Either way, you need to be confident and ask for what you want. At this point and with this predicament, it would be more expensive and less wise for them to find some cheaper, so you have the leeway to do this.

    I speak for the rest of us freelancers when I wish you good luck in getting it done!

  8. Re:Amnesia an option? by GaryOlson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Exactly.
    Work your 40 hours, leave. Prioritize your work; don't do everything they deem "required". If you do not treat yourself like a human being, the company won't either. If the company does not see the value of your contributions now, they never will. Find a different company.

    --
    Every mans' island needs an ocean; choose your ocean carefully.
  9. Standard fare, complex situation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Company hires person in low-to-moderately paid job. Responsibilities and workload increase. Salary does not rise to certified-external-hire level. Details to follow.
    Basically, this is what happens regularly.

    Now, where to go depends on how you assess your position.

    Firstly, does the company tend to give people promotions and raises informally, kind of like a surprise, or is it a structured process? Both can happen, but companies mostly only prefer one.
    In the former case, there's a 1/3 chance it's coming and they want to see how you handle things - in this case you could drop some very small hints. It's a 1/3 chance they have forgotten about it - in this case you could drop some very small hints, and you might get it. It's a 1/3 chance they simply don't care.
    If it's a structured process, you are obviously not getting it without banging the table.

    Because your odds are slim, let's consider banging the table. If you do this, you should be very aware that it COULD lead to you not working there any more. In the eyes of the bosses that be, you used to do one job (marketing and writing) and you are doing less of that and more of another, which does not qualify in itself for a raise. So consider - how employable are you? How easily could you get a job if you needed one? If the answer is "pretty good" and "pretty sure", then that's great. I should point out though that online content producers are usually 15 a dozen (in my view) and what you can hire interns for cheap as chips - so if you MUST move, could you find another job doing that at your current salary? To be honest, 'writing articles for a webpage and setting up facebook and twitter' sounds a bit weak for a full-time well-paid job if it's a small company.

    You could also ask for an agreement that you will do ONLY this from IT and then no more IT tasks. But in that case you also risk not working there any more - because there might be a reason you have been asked to do more IT instead of articles. If they tell you "well, we didn't like your articles to be honest, but we feel you can add value doing IT", would that crush you completely? Would you be able to face them again?

    Lastly, you could ask for a title upgrade only. This is the safest bet. What you decide for the title would A) let you find a better job elsewhere than you otherwise could, B) let you influence somewhat the path (e.g. the title 'Head of IT developments' may land you interviews for other jobs than 'Online Production Manager' C) your title itself should act subtly to influence whether you get more or less marketing/IT tasks going forward.

    So the answer is, it very much depends on the details that only you know.

  10. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by thegarbz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As an accountant, I can tell you its this sort of short-sightedness that will slowly run your company into the ground.

    The problems here is there's not enough money to go around, and rather than give someone a payrise that would probably see their morale improve and thus often their performance as a knock-on effect you're advocating saving $10k by spending a completely disproportionate amount on advertisement and interviews. Beyond that after the very expensive exercise of actually hiring someone you end up with some idiot who is not only equally dissatisfied with their job and may soon after just run through and ask for the same payrise, but also has no frigging clue about how the company runs and needs to be retrained from the ground up, not to mention that there's a lot of interpersonal relationships that often promote efficiencies that you're advocating just pissing against the wall.

    You sir are what is wrong with management today. The flat out attitude that an employee's entire worth is valued by the number they get paid. I hope one day when you fire 500 people so that your can afford a new personal jet each employee comes up and takes turn punching you in your fat face.

  11. Ask for it. by nordaim · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've been in this situation more than once. Each time it happened I worked with my direct manager to figure out the best solution whether that was a higher salary, better benefits (vacation, flex hours, compressed work week), or other, more ephemeral, perks like a new job title. Of the 6 times I was in this situation, 3 of which were at one company, I only walked once.

    However, in order to be able to walk that meant I always had an escape plan. Even when I was elated about a job and would go home floating on cloud 9 there were always options in the back of my mind of where I would go. I continued to job hunt: sending out my resume, talking to HR at another company, or networking with friends in the industry at least once a week. Plus, even when my budget was tight, by force of will alone I kept an emergency fund that would let me float for a while without racking up my credit cards.

    Never let yourself get in a place where a company, or anyone for that matter, can take advantage of you without recourse.

    --
    -- You don't shoot to kill, you shoot to stay alive.
  12. i, uhhh, concur by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Of course my other thought is that I'd much rather go back to writing and working with marketing than getting back into IT.

    Wrong thing to say to this crowd. Although, honestly, I completely agree with the sentiment and feel that you'll probably be better off in the long run if you do that.

    And another bit of advice: don't even think of trying the pseudo-blackmail suggestions that have been modded up so far. You'll find yourself out of work before you know it.

    --
    This guy's the limit!
    1. Re:i, uhhh, concur by karnal · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you utilize "leverage" to get what you want, your employer will see this and use "leverage" when they want.

      Ultimately, if the question needs brought up, it probably isn't a win-win scenario you're looking at here anyways.

      --
      Karnal
  13. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As your employee, I know that your ass is on the line to maintain productivity with the budget you have. Good luck hiring those 100 other applicants who will not handle half as much workload that you shifted on me without asking twice as much as I'm asking for a raise.

    Managers often think that hard-working employees can be replaced easily. Those are the managers who are usually first canned during departmental restructuring because of their "turn-over" rate. A good manager knows how to be effective at balancing his employees happiness with the company's productivity.

  14. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by Cheerio+Boy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a manager, I can tell you its this sort of short-sightedness that will buy you a one way ticket to the street. 1 month to launch? Sure, no problem, we'll give you a 10k per year raise. And then we'll show you the exit a week or two after launch. You think you're irreplaceable? I think every time I post a new position I get 100 candidates more qualified than your dumbass.

    And your attitude is the exact reason why I'm leaving I/T if I can do it. People who work their ass off should be rewarded and NOT replaced. Why? Because if you reward them and keep them they'll work their ass off for you AGAIN and AGAIN.

    --

    "Bah!" - Dogbert
  15. Re:Amnesia an option? by bbernard · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'd advise having an exit strategy in the works. Start interviewing because there is no better time to negotiate a new job than when you currently have one. You don't want to work for a company that is willing to "knowingly" take advantage of you. If you're comfortable with your management chain, bring this issue up to them.

    Under no circumstances "threaten" to leave, or tell them that you've got a new job and want them to match salaries, etc. Get yourself an offer you like, and then start negotiating with your current employer. If you tell them you're looking at leaving or that you've got a new job offer, their motivation will only be to placate you until they can replace you. If you "work with them" on aligning your salary with your tasks you've got a better job at keeping a long-term relationship with them.

    Otherwise, find a better job opportunity and take it.

    --
    ----- Connection reset by beer
  16. Re:Give up. by antifoidulus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No, what his boss meant was that after the company gives said boss a huge bonus for "cost savings"(read working his people into the ground while essentially adding no value of his own), there is no budget left. If the OP threatens to leave then all of a sudden from somewhere(read boss's undeserved bonus) money will materialize.

    Work, like much of life, is really a game of chicken. Thats why always advisable to have a large amount of savings, and if possible, a spouse with a good job. That way, when the boss dumps work on you without giving you a pay raise you can balk at his (almost certainly idle) threat to fire you.

  17. It's different Now for Corporations & Individu by gink1 · · Score: 5, Informative

    It seems that ever since this "Great Recession / Depression" started that a lot of things have changed.
    Our Fearless Leader has been trying to convince us it's all over now, but the EU would no doubt disagree!

    The outlook for Corporations has improved though and some are hiring key people they can find now for some slots (but pay is not too good).
    For most though, they have learned they can make a lot of money without their former staffing.

    So individuals are doing more, often much much more for the same or less money. Grab a better position if you can, but it might be tough to get the next one. DO NOT do what a friend did and quit before securing the next position. Several of my Professional friends have been out for about 2 years now. I can't understand how they are surviving!

    I was quite fortunate to find an Engineering position right at the start of the Recession and have held it.
    It's a great position - great work, learning many skills and much programming.
    After putting in the required long hours, I actually received commendations for my efforts.

    I received a raise after that, but my manager told me he had to fight tooth and nail to get me 3%.
    It was eye opening and after reflection, I consider myself quite lucky.

    The #1 Goal of ALL Corporations is to maximize profits. Why wouldn't they take full advantage of the current employment situation?

  18. Do way you can in 40 hrs by hellfire · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Take a few hours to basically put together a report of how long all this is going to take and over estimate. Overestimating is important here. When you explain this to your boss, don't say I can't do blah, say this is what I can do. They may ask for more, say that's impossible. When they push, and they will, give them a little, just enough to cut into your overestimate then hope they take it. If they push and try to make you do 60-80 hours, you are fucked. Dust up your resume. But if they accept your logic and push the schedule or hire someone then logic wins.

    Your company is fucked right now. They somehow got into a situation where they need to meet a goal without proper resources. So they are trying to squeeze you for all they can and you let them. The above is what you should have done originally. Now that they saddled you with this they are glig to blame failures on you. You always need to know what you can and can't do. They have no money to fulfill your requests but if you push back politely you might find something. However I doubt this. If they were good managers they wouldn't be in this situation.

    --

    "All great wisdom is contained in .signature files"

  19. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by schon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You think you're irreplaceable?

    I think every time I post a new position I get 100 candidates more qualified than your dumbass.

    And every single one of them wants triple what you're currently paying.

    Because if they were more qualified and willing to work for the same amount, you'd be replacing your current employee.

  20. Re:I would just find a new job by Algan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Never accept a counter-offer. Chances are that they will replace you as soon as they can afterwards. If you're still considering staying there, ask for a raise before you put in your 2 weeks notice. If they value you, you'll get it.

    --
    If con is the opposite of pro, is Congress the opposite of progress?
  21. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by HangingChad · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a manager, I can tell you its this sort of short-sightedness that will buy you a one way ticket to the street.

    And as a consultant who has seen many instances of the problem dictating the solution, your short-sightedness is going to bring you system failures, data loss, lower productivity and higher down stream costs.

    Imagine if you walked in to accounting and announced that they were also going to need to handle HR. I'm sure there would be a lot of surprised looks. But when it comes to IT managers think nothing of walking in telling them they're also going to be taking care of the phone system or the accounting system or any number other departmental systems and then expecting them to just add that to what they already do.

    I agree with the parent, you can't let other people set you up for failure. That's just as bad for your career. Got a call today for a job where the camel carrying too many straws quit. As they listed off all the required duties, I cut them off before they got to the end. It was a loser contract. They wanted 80 hours of work while paying for 40, the contracting process was a mess, then they tried to low ball the rate. Sometimes it's better to say no thanks.

    --
    That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
  22. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think one of the things missing is, based upon the summary, it sounds like the company is taking the actions I've seen far too often of a company that is about to go under. It certainly isn't be managed very well, but even if it was, these sound like desperate actions, and regardless of what is done, I doubt the poster is going to have a place to go to work within 6 months. I could be wrong, of course, but I've had some experience in this area unfortunately.

  23. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by __aasqbs9791 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Unless they happen to be related to the owners.*

    *Sorry, personal pet peeve of mine.

  24. Same as anything else... by evilviper · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is the most basic part of being employed. You walk into your manager's office, close the door, point out how many new, important, and unwanted responsibilities you now have.

    How confrontational you want to get is up to you, and largely depends on how willing you are to quit. You can take the soft approach, and just say you think a raise is in order, or else you'd prefer to relinquish your new duties, and sit quietly, hoping he comes back with a reasonable figure. Alternatively, if it's worth playing chicken with your job, you can name a figure, and be intractable when he tries to say how little money they have, and names some lower figure instead.

    Personally, I'm a bit more of a pain in the ass... I don't believe in arm-twisting my employer every time they should be doing the right thing. If they can't figure out I've done a hell of a lot for them, and compensate me appropriately, I'm finding another job ASAP, and giving my two weeks' notice. Of course that invariably results in a counter-offer, but I simply turn them down flat, since they've shown their lack of respect for me every day up to that point. They're probably just looking to keep me on for a couple months, until they can find and train someone a bit cheaper, and then fire me without warning. Continuing to work for an employer who isn't doing good by you, without having to be asked (or threatened) constantly, is idiotic.

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  25. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by xmundt · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Greetings and salutations...
              While this is a great exposition of the way management thinks, it also shows how truly short-sighted and unwise management can be. Lord knows, I have seen this sort of room-temperature IQ in companies MANY times over the years.
              The fact of the matter is that these are high-tech jobs that require a great deal of skill and knowledge. Also, EVERY setup like this is unique. it is not like hiring a new backhoe operator, where pretty much every backhoe works the same!
              now....let us say you put off the employee with pretty promises that you have no intentions of following through on. IT folks tend to be pretty bright, and, will catch on fairly quickly to this. Unless there are some rewards showing up, then, productivity will suffer, or, the quality of work will degrade. Without adequate rewards, you are, essentially, treating your employee as a slave, and, NO slave is very productive.
                Say, you DO give the employee a big raise, with the intentions of dumping them after the project is "done". Again...this works once, at best, and if your IT person has any experience under their belt, that has probably already happened to them once. They will recognize this and, again...productivity and quality will suffer.
                Do you want to know what the "tell" is in this scenario? The fact that the employee has been loaded with tons of extra work and responsibility, and has had to ASK for more money. The smart manager, who is truly interested in getting the project knocked out, getting a quality product, and keeping a valuable resource for the company will walk in and say something on the order of "we have these extra tasks to add to your job description, and, since we realize this is an expansion of our requirements, here are some perks/cash/etc we are adding to your pay package".
                  It is true that ANY employee can be replaced. However, how much is the company willing at absorb in terms of lost productivity, training, and general delays from the normal startup time that it takes for a new hire to get an understanding of the setup to the point that they are NOT dangerous? management tends to forget that....
              regards
              dave mundt

    --
    YAB - http://blog.beemandave.com/
  26. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is absolutely true.

    Unless the manager knows the company will go bankrupt if they fire you, they'll kill the company rather than admit you are irreplaceable.
    I've seen companies pay a million bucks to PROVE that a $50k employee wasn't irreplaceable.

    Your best option is do your best and FAIL at the web server jobs because you don't have those skills.
    You absolutely don't want to be the IT person at a company like that. You'll be working nights, weekends and holidays while everyone else is drinking at the bar partying.

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  27. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by suomynonAyletamitlU · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You think you're irreplaceable?

    I think every time I post a new position I get 100 candidates more qualified than your dumbass.

    I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say either this is an exaggeration by 50-100x, or you really have no way to tell who's qualified for the position. No, he isn't irreplaceable. However, HR managers who believe that good employees (as opposed to line workers) are, in fact, replaceable, are going to send their business into the gutter. Because, frankly, the existence of replacements doesn't mean that YOU will find one.

    Because I get the feeling you aren't working for a company everyone wants to work at--not Google or some amazing game studio or anything else really fun. So they won't be coming to you. That means that pretty much every resume you'll get is just someone looking for "a job, any job." Those applicants are not going to be the five-star workers. Probably not even three-star. However, what you're asking for is someone who's at least 3-4 stars, like the submitter claims to be--hard working, competent, learns fast, trying to be professional, actually getting things done, has proven himself, and who has clearly become the go-to guy for these sorts of things.

    You don't want a prima donna. Got it. And GP's grandstanding is pretty assholeish. However, if it was you who was in charge of his living or dying, he would be justified in his assholishness (if not in his method), because I'm pretty sure you wouldn't pay him what he was worth. And guess what? Between the two of you, you'll probably be the one who's wrong. Now, maybe the GP is really just trolling businesses and doesn't know Jack Schitt. On the other hand, what he suggested could easily come naturally--because in the big push before a launch, people can get burned out and actually need that kind of incentive to stay instead of being reamed up the ass. And all you just did was screw him out of both fair pay for his current work, and future employment. Thanks.

  28. Re:You've created your own problem by /dev/trash · · Score: 2, Informative

    have you not heard? The economy sucks! No one is hiring!

  29. Re:Give up. by Tuoqui · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If they dont have the money to pay this person, they certainly wont have the money to pay the 2-3 people that they would likely have to hire to replace this person.

    If I were the person and I truly knew the company was cash strapped I'd accept things that arent immediate money... like stock options, extra vacation time, setting your own hours or telecommuting for some of those 60-80 hour weeks. The latter could save you huge $$$ in terms of gas expended commuting.

    --
    09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
    +2 Troll is Slashdot's way of saying groupthink is confused
  30. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by beakerMeep · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm sorry but he's right. He said it in a horribly tactless way, but to use a project launch as leverage is to show that you're manipulative and not a team player. These are people you have to continue to work with and they will never trust you again.

    If he were to go to management and say "hey I am over-utilized, I would like a raise or a subordinate or just help from peers or SOMETHING; otherwise we might miss launch DESPITE my best efforts, (with documentation showing how much he is overworking) -- that would be a different story.

    It's all about how you say it, are you in it for the long haul? Do they know that? Are you polite, willing to be flexible? Are you bringing the problem to THEIR attention with some suggested solutions and letting them decide?

    Some situations will never be resolvable as one side or the other just doesn't care or wont budge. But most can be solved quite amicably to both sides with a little forethought and common courtesy.

    Also, one thing to remember is that if you are going to convince someone you are over-booked, you need to tell them that each time they add an assignment to your plate, else they will continue to push you to your limits (which is not always a bad thing).

    --
    meep
  31. Look for a new job and see if they will counter by rlh100 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    After asking for a raise and being refused, go look for a new job describing your current skills. When you find one, ask for what you think you are worth. You will likely get close to it. Take the offer back to your current company and see if they will match it. They would be idiots to not match it, but they will probably be idiots.

    The job market is expanding at this point. Go for it.

    RLH

  32. Get a new job by spiffmastercow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The only way I've ever managed to get a proportional raise was to get a new job. Companies don't like to give out raises, and prefer to hire someone for more rather than promote from within. It's ass-backwards, but that's the way the world works.

  33. Nervous breakdown by dsoltesz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is a nervous breakdown waiting to happen.

    Listen to the folks telling you to slow down and prioritize. Have a friendly talk with your boss about a promotion to go with the new responsibilities. Ask for help (even if you do not need it) from your boss prioritizing your responsibilities so you can get the most important things done in your 40 hours... this discussion will accomplish several things: your boss will understand exactly what and how much you have on your plate, you make it clear working more than 40 hours long-term is not desirable, hopefully some of your shit tasks get delegated elsewhere, and finally, you get some important satisfaction knowing you are making an effort to get control of the situation. Frankly, it sounds like you are on a sinking ship. If so, make a plan to get off the boat voluntarily.

    If the situation does not improve, this is headed a very ugly direction. Stress can destroy your health, and burnout can last for years (perhaps a lifetime). I don't have words to describe how painful and destructive stress and burnout really are. Just take my word for it: Don't go there.

    1. Re:Nervous breakdown by jskoda · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You can create a vicious cycle of burnout if you are not careful. You'll finally escape the old job with its overly demanding schedule and poor salary for a new job with a better salary and more reasonable task list. You're new job euphoria can put you in situations where you pick up extra work or some other duties because you're happy not to be in the old job and the manager at the new job wouldn't take advantage of you... You basically put yourself back into a burnout position grinding away until you find another new job with a better salary where you'll start out with more reasonable taskings, until you sign up for too much there too. The several posts here that suggest you take care of yourself are dead on! Listen to them. When you're hired into a position, that's the role you play and only deviate from the role for extremely good reasons and only for temporary taskings.

    2. Re:Nervous breakdown by jskoda · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Getting burned out in one job can set you up for getting burned out in the next one as well. You become so happy that you aren't in your old job that you sign up for things and extra work in the new one because the new people/management are nice and you want to show how appreciative you are that you've with them and not in your old job, until you realize that you're back in the same type of situation: too much to do and not enough time/money to accomplish the tasks.

  34. This guy is not flamebait by Weaselmancer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He's spot on. He could have phrased it more delicately, but honestly you could use a little shaking up.

    That's what your job has evolved into, and that is the pay. Arm twisting will accomplish nothing for you except a quick trip to the street. They're broke. You've already said so. That's why they're laying off all the people you've replaced and have no budget for staff.

    You try to go oil drilling with these guys and you won't get a thing except a fresh new bullseye on your back.

    My advice? Talk them into a title change only. Emphasize you're not digging for a raise, but you'd like something to reflect your new duties. Get your new impressive title, then bust ass for the next 3 months to get settled in with your new title. Then get your ass to careerbuilder and craigslist and use your new fancy title to negotiate a better job. These guys are garden variety passive aggressives PHBs that will continue to dump on you until you break. Ditch them.

    --
    Weaselmancer
    rediculous.
    1. Re:This guy is not flamebait by ktappe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's what your job has evolved into, and that is the pay. Arm twisting will accomplish nothing for you except a quick trip to the street. They're broke. You've already said so. That's why they're laying off all the people you've replaced and have no budget for staff.

      You try to go oil drilling with these guys and you won't get a thing except a fresh new bullseye on your back.

      My advice? Talk them into a title change only. Emphasize you're not digging for a raise, but you'd like something to reflect your new duties. Get your new impressive title, then bust ass for the next 3 months to get settled in with your new title. Then get your ass to careerbuilder and craigslist and use your new fancy title to negotiate a better job. These guys are garden variety passive aggressives PHBs that will continue to dump on you until you break. Ditch them.

      Not horrible advice but I'd advocate he back off his hours a bit. He's being paid for 40 hours and they're expecting 60-80. I don't care how you cut it, that's not fair. But further, it's also going to have notably adverse affects on his job performance as well as personal life. You want him to be seeking other jobs? When? That type of schedule completely precludes a job search. I think he needs to level with them that they're paying him for 40 hours, and he is willing to put in some OT but cannot maintain a 60+ hour workweek. As long as he is not asking for more $, they might accept that. If they don't, at least he took the moral high road.

      --
      "We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
  35. what is said and what is true by Tumbleweed · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I received a raise after that, but my manager told me he had to fight tooth and nail to get me 3%.

    This is a pretty common thing for managers to do. Give you the minimum they think you'll accept, and say they went to the mat "for you". Right. It *might* be true, but I seriously doubt it.

  36. That happens all the time. by khasim · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Understand it and plan for it.

    Keep your resume up-to-date and USE it. Shop yourself around at least every year to see what you're really worth and what job skills you should be working on.

    The good thing about situations like that is that they look GREAT on your resume. Just work on the narrative and explain how you took on more responsibilities as the needs of your employer changed.

    1. Re:That happens all the time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Of course my other thought is that I'd much rather go back to writing and working with marketing than getting back into IT."

      In the end, this is what matters. Do what you really want to be doing. It will save you the stress that will eventually take its toll on you and those around you. And save you from having that heart attack one Monday morning.

    2. Re:That happens all the time. by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Understand it and plan for it.

      Keep your resume up-to-date and USE it. Shop yourself around at least every year to see what you're really worth and what job skills you should be working on.

      The good thing about situations like that is that they look GREAT on your resume. Just work on the narrative and explain how you took on more responsibilities as the needs of your employer changed.

      Exactly. This is why a title upgrade, even if you can't get a raise, is very valuable. Your resume will show advancement; and you can make a very compelling story around how you kept doing more and now were looking for the next opportunity (and more money). In this economy, guerilla tactics are even more useful - bide your time, build up your strengths, and attack when the odds are in your favor. Once the market picks up, you can decide what move to make; until then keep a paycheck and build your resume. Look for opportunities to add skills in areas where you want to work; look at them as paid training. Your present employer will probably never pay you what the going rate is, so enjoy the ride and develop the skills and titles to make the jump when you can.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  37. Learn to say "NO". Scale down your responsibilitie by melted · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Learn to say "NO". Scale down your responsibilities. Be diplomatic about it. Basically every now and then ask your boss, "I have X, Y and Z on my plate but I only have time for two of the three. Which one do we want to drop, outsource, have someone else do?" That's how you get your life back—through careful budgeting and time management.

    Face it, it's better to do a good job on two things than shitty job on three. This is probably the reason why you didn't get promoted—as a rule, people don't get promoted for doing shitty work.

    Your task is to have enough diplomatic skill to explain this to your management without it reflecting negatively on you as a professional.

  38. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by Xacid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think you hit on a key thing with "If he were to go to management and say "hey I am over-utilized, I would like a raise or a subordinate or just help from peers or SOMETHING; otherwise we might miss launch DESPITE my best efforts, (with documentation showing how much he is overworking) -- that would be a different story".

    Sometimes a payraise simply isn't the solution. I'd approach it in the manner of like "listen, we've got to do SOMETHING. Pay me so I can justify working 60-80 hours a week or relieve me of some of these duties with a new employee or shift some of it to an existing employee. The manager's job is to support you and to make sure the job gets done. If you approach it in terms of "I have a problem, can you help me fix this?" then you're off on the right foot.

    But also realize- sometimes there are inflexible employers who either poorly budgeted or simply don't have enough foresight to realize the value of their people. However, I as a small business owner know absolutely that my people are my number 1 asset. If I can't afford to pay someone more, but I know they're worth it then I'll at least explain why (typically a lack of steady work) and offer for them to proactive with helping us find new work. In essence it becomes - "help me help you". But then again - in a larger corporate environment you'd have more to worry about if they're having trouble finding steady work which raises a whole different slew of issues.

  39. Best advice depends on level of trust of employer. by paper+tape · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you implicitly trust your boss and your employer to be fair, go to them and explain the situation, that you feel you're being taken advantage of, and ask how you can work together to address that.

    If you have any lower level of trust, immediately start looking for work. When you find a new job and give notice, do NOT take an offer to stay on if they match the offer at your new job.

    My last job, I was an 'indispensable man' keeping the tech end of a small company together. I did not in any way, shape, or form, trust the management or owners of the company. For various reasons, I decided it was time to move on, found a new job, and gave notice. They immediately offered to match what I would be making at the new job (a 30% raise over what I had been making). I declined politely, worked my two weeks and left. They hired my predecessor back, at the same salary I had left for, and gave another employee a large raise to stay... and then cut both their salaries by a third 6 weeks later.

    Had I stayed, the same would have happened to me - I'd have given up what has turned out to be a dream job for me, in exchange for continuing to work for people I didn't trust, for pretty much the same money (once it was too late and the opportunity to move was gone).

  40. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I know this is is slashdot and everyone who can half-ass a LAMP setup and update the WordPress thinks they are a irreplaceable "five star" technical superstud. But the reality is most of you people are barely competent despite your high opinions of yourself.

    You can easily get hundreds of replies to craigslist post for this type of work, the biggest difficulty is picking the peanuts out of all the shit.

    And come on, the OP gets paid for posting on facebook. It's an entry-level job at best.

  41. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by ktappe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm sorry but he's right. He said it in a horribly tactless way, but to use a project launch as leverage is to show that you're manipulative and not a team player. These are people you have to continue to work with and they will never trust you again.

    He didn't fire the first shot, his employer did. They used the economic downturn and his goodwill to dump huge quantities of additional responsibility on him without any compensation. All he is doing is returning fire and all power to him. Honestly, if they treat him like this now odds are he'll get laid off after project launch anyway, as they are treating him as disposable. So he might as well get his pay now 'cos he sure won't get it later.

    It's always so fun when people only see employers' side of things. And then those same people cannot fathom why unions exist.

    --
    "We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
  42. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by Nadaka · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Been There. Done That. You are right.

    It is not time to ask for a raise and a title. It is time to find someone else to work for. Go ahead and ask for the title without the raise, so that you can put it on your resume.

  43. Re:Amnesia an option? by ktappe · · Score: 2, Interesting

    [At 40 hours/week] I wasn't performing nearly as well (according to their "metrics") as my co-workers who were putting in 60+ hours a week - so when layoffs came I was chopped.

    They managed to lose every account I managed (support accounts) a year after I was canned and that cost the company several million a year in revenue in contracts alone, but then I was having a hard time managing all that stuff anyhow + everything else they wanted to dump on me.

    I'd lay odds you don't miss that job one bit. Further, I bet you feel better about yourself now than you did then. You certainly feel better than your 60+ hours/week ex-coworkers who are stressed out and have no personal lives. And knowing the wrong they did you cost them millions HAS to feel great.

    --
    "We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
  44. Re:Give up. by ktappe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You don't seem to understand how modern "capitalism" works. When your boss said "we don't have the budget," he meant exactly that. If you push for more money, or even just ask, if they're really antsy, you'll be filing for unemployment.

    And a boss would never lie about not having more money in the budget....right?

    --
    "We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
  45. You said it yourself by tftp · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Of course my other thought is that I'd much rather go back to writing and working with marketing than getting back into IT.

    If that's what you really want, then that's what you should be working toward. IT is a thankless, 24/7 routine where you do well if nothing happens; and since nothing happens there is sometimes a belief of some managers that you aren't really doing anything. Writing and working with marketing is far better in this aspect (and in many others.) Besides, if you become a reluctant IT guy you will eventually lose your writing skills; you won't be marketable for what you love to do, and you won't be a great IT guy either. You need experience in your chosen field if you want to develop professionally, and if you don't want a career in IT then don't go for it. If the company doesn't want you any more in the writing/marketing position then look for another job before it's too late.

  46. If you need a resume by symbolset · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you need a resume then you're doing it wrong. Make a name for yourself and sell your name - the whole time you're employed. If your status changes from "unavailable" to "?" on your website, FB and Linkedin and you don't have a dozen offers of employment in 24 hours, then you've failed. If your friends in the industry keep touch many of them are checking to see if you're available now because really you're not that interesting but they get a spiff for bringing you in. If you're selling yourself properly then you're happy where you are and you still get 4-8 unconditional offers a year, and dozens of inquiries that might be. You can call around to your friends if you get desperate, but then you're in a weak position. All else is fluff.

    You don't own the vanity web domain that is your name? You don't use it to advertise your self? So sad for you. What were you thinking? Maybe you don't belong in tech. That's a grand placement for a blog that shows off your achievements, your knowledge, your puissance, your value. I bought my name (though it's now a flat page and not a blog). Everybody I know did that. If you enter my proper name in Google, the first hit is the page I want you to see, and most of the entire rest of it is links to public sites where I aired my carefully considered forward thinking opinion - and a few hits are to a scary guy who shares my name but most obviously isn't me even though he lives near me (damn you FencePost!) I googled me just now, and that's how it is. Most of us did it several different ways. A domain is like ten bucks a year. Come on: if you can't invest that much in yourself, what's somebody going to think?

    Hint: people are going to "Google" you before they offer you a job. The output associated with your name should be interesting, forward looking, and non-toxic. The Internet being what it is, you don't get to revoke output associated tightly with your name so if you're prone to stupid, racist, sexist or obscure arguments while posting sober or impaired, it's best if you use a pseudonym while doing that so you don't make yourself unemployable. It's probably best to have a general alt to use for your common activity, and post under your real name only in your most careful, sober and considered capacity. Unfortunately this guidance is far too late for me, but hopefully my strengths overcome my Internet shortcomings and my learning will educate others.

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
  47. Start interviewing by OrangeTide · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have three friends who have successfully gone the route of starting with interviews and letting the rumors start. If you can secure an offer from another company for significantly more you can either jump ship or let your current place match the offer. One friend of mine got a pretty significant raise this way, after having to suffer with a pretty significant pay cut last year he's above his original salary then bump all of his coworkers up too. He wondered the point of the salary cuts, when the company gave in so quickly to pressure.

    The only trick to it, is you have to be serious about taking the other offer. You must be in the mind set that you will walk away when deal doesn't meet your requirements, and it is important to think about what those requirements really are before you negotiate.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:Start interviewing by MartinSchou · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A friend of mine did something similar, but different.

      He took at 25% pay cut (from a very good salary mind you) just to get back to a 40 hours/week job again. The employer he was at offered him a raise to stay, but he made it quite clear that he didn't need more money - he needed more time for himself.

      And since they weren't willing to hire extra people to cover the 60 hours/week he was working, he left. According to him, the letter of recommendation he received wasn't really one. Just said he worked there for 3.5 years and stated his title.

      Both things just makes him laugh and smile - he's quite happy he took the pay cut. If he hadn't, the new company couldn't have afforded him, and he'd likely have been at least one nervous breakdown richer.

      Moral of the story: Money isn't worth crap, if the process of acquiring them is going to kill you.

  48. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by erroneus · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's true -- the respect MUST go both ways. If it doesn't you were screwed before you asked the question. I get the feeling the original topic poster is just seeking confirmation that he should look elsewhere... and as they say, it is easier to find a job when you already have one than not. So start looking.

    Also, the company shows all the signs of immanent collapse. You should be looking for another job for that reason alone. I have seen a lot of companies failing in much the same ways. I once worked for a company who was paying their employees from investment capital when they were supposed to be running a stable business. I knew the money would run out before long... it did.

  49. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by kklein · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is exactly how you handle this kind of thing.

    The last time it happened to me (I was leading a small team who was asked to do more and more--and then kept getting flak for things falling through the cracks), I had my folks document--conservatively--how much time was being spent on tasks. It was a simple case of the management just plain not knowing how many intermediary steps there were between "do this" and "it's done."

    I brought this material to a private meeting with my boss, explained our situation earnestly, and provided documentation of what we were doing. I made it very clear that we actually agreed that much of this stuff needed to get done, but that there physically wasn't enough man power or time to do it. I told him that some of my best people were looking to leave, and explained how much we--the company--would suffer if we let that happen. I then just basically said "Something's got to give. We need to take one of these projects and re-assign it or we need to be pulled off something, or we need more hands." I didn't bring money up at all, because money doesn't even mean anything when you physically cannot complete the tasks in front of you.

    Anyway, it went well. He very honestly didn't know what was going on, and appreciated that I approached it from a "we have a problem, and here are some ideas on fixing it" standpoint, not a "this is bullshit and you fucking suck" standpoint (although that was the standpoint we often had amongst ourselves.).

    If that doesn't work, if the response is "Well, buddy, I'm sorry, but that's life in the big city with the big boys in the big company, and this stuff has to get done" then remember that "this stuff" is not "your stuff." You're an employee. The owners need this stuff done; you need money. That's all. You have no relationship with "this stuff."

    I agree that you should never threaten your employer. These are people, and even when they're incompetent, they're just normal folks. You pull a dick move and they aren't going to like it. You're shooting yourself in the foot. You might get the raise, but it also might be the last one you ever get. Being liked/respected by your organizational superiors makes things a lot easier in life. Don't be a dick. Be a team player.

  50. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by Xeno+man · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What about the other way? Your boss has hired you to build a shed but by the time the project is done your building a mansion and they haven't giving you any more resources to do so. That shows that management is manipulative hiring a guy to to a job but then over time they can get job b, c and d as well for free.

    The best way is to do some research on who is hiring some one to do what your doing and what they are offering or how many people they need to hire to do what your doing. 3 guys at 40k a year to replace you sure makes your 10% increase request look very reasonable.

  51. what not to do by John_Sauter · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I hope my story will serve as a cautionary tale. In 1995 I was hired as the junior person in a two-person IT department. My boss immediately began training me so I could cover for her during vacations and illnesses, and of course she covered for me.

    In 2005 she left abruptly. Because her departure was unexpected I naturally began to do her job in addition to my own, just as I did when she took vacation. I also asked for a temporary salary bump to compensate me for the added responsibility, until either (a) I got a promotion to the senior position and someone was hired into the junion position, or (b) someone was hired to replace her. Because of our longevity we were both at the top of our grade in salary, but the bottom of her grade was above the top of mine, so a bump to the bottom of her grade would have meant an increase for me.

    After six months of being rebuffed I concluded that they were happy with the status quo: they were getting what had historically been a two-person job at the price of one junior salary. I felt put upon, because I was no longer able to take vacation.

    Here is where I made my mistake: I became obstinate, and declared that I would no longer do the jobs that had historically been the responsibility of the senior person. Within a week I was unemployed.

    Be smarter than I was. There is some good advice in this thread, which I wish had been available to me.

    1. Re:what not to do by John_Sauter · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What's the moral of your story? Looks to me like that wasn't a place you would want to work no matter which way you look at it.

      If I had been smarter, I would have found a way to return to persuade them that two people were required for the job: myself as the senior person, and a new hire as the junior person. After 10 years of training, I could have retired with a nice pension due to 20 years of service.

      The nice thing about a long-term internal support job is you get to know all of your customers personally.

    2. Re:what not to do by Aladrin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually, no, you couldn't have. If you could have, they wouldn't have rebuffed you for 6 months! 6 months!

      The company clearly had no idea what the job was worth, and your ability to step in and take over made them think it was worth much less than it really was. After you left, they found out how much it was worth when the hired someone. That person either cost what you were asking, or did a horrible job.

      Don't beat yourself up about it. There was nothing you could have done to keep the job except keep accepting their abuse.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    3. Re:what not to do by John_Sauter · · Score: 2, Informative

      The company clearly had no idea what the job was worth, and your ability to step in and take over made them think it was worth much less than it really was. After you left, they found out how much it was worth when they hired someone. That person either cost what you were asking, or did a horrible job.

      I dropped by a year after they let me go and learned it was the latter—my friends told me that the quality of service had declined. However, they did start obeying the part of the contract which provides that people who are given temporary extra responsibilities get a temporary bump in pay.

    4. Re:what not to do by geoskd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The company clearly had no idea what the job was worth, and your ability to step in and take over made them think it was worth much less than it really was. After you left, they found out how much it was worth when the hired someone. That person either cost what you were asking, or did a horrible job.

      Perhaps, but I would venture to state that in this economy, they probably got someone at the same basic skill level and pay level, and will never go back to the two person setup again. People don't understand truly yet, but the workload vs pay-rate balance has shifted, and it will *not* go back. the 40 Hours/week job from yesteryear payed what today's 60+ hour job pays, and yesterdays 60+ hour job now pay 3/4 what it used to. 10% of the American working class is unemployed, and despite everything you may have heard, and a trillion dollar bailout, this is unlikely to ever go back to the 2-3% we used to have. With all of those qualified people out there, and Obama putting hundreds of thousands more through higher education, the workforce surplus will continue into the foreseeable future. This has happened before: in the mid 90's, Japans economy weakened in a miniature collapse. Their unemployment rate doubled and more, and has never recovered in the 15 years since. France has been running almost double digit unemployment for 20 years. This collapse is not the direct result of the housing bubble as we were told. It is a fundamental shift in the world economy that has been happening over the last 50 years and has finally caught up with the USA. The housing bubble was just the trigger event that allowed companies to justify wholesale job elimination. Even when revenues come back, those jobs aren't. Long story short, that 60k per year job you had is now worth 40k on the open market. Those lucky enough to still have those high paying jobs, will find that once they leave them the high paying jobs will either suddenly become low paying jobs or will liquidate entirely. Even worse is the responsibility creep, we have been discussing all through this thread.

      -=Geoskd

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
  52. Yep by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've seen some funny situations like this. Friend of mine was in a similar thing of they kept heaping on more work and refusing to raise his pay. They didn't lay him off, they just wouldn't pay him any more so he left. About 2 weeks later they were calling him, desperate. The new guy couldn't figure something out, the site was down, nothing was working, they were so screwed would he please, PLEASE come in and fix it? He literally laughed and said ok sure, for a couple grand up front. They said no, he hung up. They called him a few more times begging before finally, angrily, agreeing to pay a hefty consulting fee. He went in and fixed their problem and they tried to hand him a bunch more work and he said "Nope, see ya!"

    They went out of business around a year later, due to I'm sure many other bad decisions.

    It is silly to think employees will just take whatever you tell them to and should be happy for the privilege. No, the good ones will leave and will find other work. You can say "Well nobody is irreplaceable," and while that is a general global truth, it can be false in specific situations. You can find that someone you shuffle out was extremely important to your operation, and you cannot replace them in the time frame that is needed and for the price you can afford. As such part (or all) of your company may suffer performance wise or even fail.

    New people are not immediately 100% productive, it takes time to learn systems (the more specialized the longer) and finding good people can be hard. In particular if you need someone who is willing to hit the ground running immediately, do a ton of work, etc you are usually talking a consultant and an expensive one at that, or a consulting firm and several consultants. You can spend a year's salary in a few weeks easy depending on what you need.

  53. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Well, technically, if you have to know, yes, I'm kinda irreplacable. Last time I checked there are about 5 people on this marble we call Earth that have the set of skills I can offer. Granted, there's also only a market for about 500, but you can probably see that there's not always "100 candidates per job". Sometimes, you have 100 jobs per candidate. Or, in other terms... I probably make more money than you. And I don't even have to play golf to get it.

    But let's assume I'm replacable. Yes, you can fire me. And hire someone else. Who will need about 1-3 months to get "into" the job, depending on his skill level. If he is one of the few people who can pick up an IT job made for 4 people in just 1 month, expect to pay him WELL. After that time, he could become productive. After that time, though, he usually also finds out that you're essentially underpaying him, because he has the workload of four people to carry on a one person paycheck. So there's two possible outcomes: He's either also asking for more money or he finds something better without first asking for more money. Either way, you're again looking for someone who will, again, need 1-3 months to get into the game.

    The idea of hire and fire has NEVER worked well in IT. IT ain't bricklaying or plumbing. It's not "you've done it once, you do the same here". You never do the same job in two different companies. Even if they happen to have essentially the same goals. You will never be able to "plug and play" someone. And you can utterly forget it when it comes to development.

    In other words, yes, you can easily hire someone else. If you can handle the lost output of about a quarter. Always provided that you don't fall for someone only claiming to have the skills you want and HR being too stupid to weed out the duds.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  54. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    it is not like hiring a new backhoe operator, where pretty much every backhoe works the same

    Don't sell skilled tradespeople short. The ability to feel something's not right and avoid ripping out that unmarked underground gas main isn't something every backhoe operator has. Ditto for when it's safe to open-trench, and when you need to use a trench box. Or close-in work on buried electrical lines, with people standing next to the bucket.

  55. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by mysidia · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm sorry but he's right. He said it in a horribly tactless way, but to use a project launch as leverage is to show that you're manipulative and not a team player.

    In other words, he'd be perfect in management?

    If he uses the project as leverage, he's cold and manipulative. If he doesn't, he's a fool, perfect candidate to be manipulated by management into increasingly many job duties, with no improvement in pay, or recognition for performance.

    You think companies believe that being manipulative is bad?

    Companies exist to manipulate their prospective customers to buy product from them

  56. Re:Amnesia an option? by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Get yourself an offer you like, and then start negotiating with your current employer

    Bad advice.

    The current employer will see this as blackmail.

    You turn down the new employer, the current employer sacks you a month later, and you're screwed.

    Take the job with the new employer. If they want you back, they can then offer more money - sit on the offer - it will be good for a raise with your new employer at the 3-month review.

    But don't go back to the old one for at least a year.

  57. Play hardball by mikein08 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Old saying: if you have a broad back,there are a thousand people waiting to put a saddle on it. Start job hunting yesterday. Have some interviews, get some offers, go to your boss and tell him you will leave for a new job unless you get a decent raise and extra resources to do your job properly. Don't be nasty or demanding, just matter of fact. Remember, your company has NO loyalty to you, and you should have none to it. Your other option, if you don't mind being unemployed for awhile, is to go to your boss, politely tell him you want a raise and extra resources to do your job. If your request is denied, resign with 2 weeks notice immediately. If your boss then decides that you deserve the raise and resources, you could play some serious poker by increasing your demands. In other words, play hardball with these people. They will play it with you, so play it with them. Don't let them get the upper hand - ever. But you must be prepared to be fired or to resign and perhaps to be unemployed for a while. If you've got the financial resources, unemployment aint so bad! Good luck.

    1. Re:Play hardball by Krahar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or he could find work at a place actually worth working at. Might do wonders for his life expectancy.

  58. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Funny

    That's actually the big problem. And the more qualification you require (not because you think it's cute to have a triple-PhD changing your lightbulbs, but because they're utterly worthless if they don't have the qualification), the worse it gets.

    As a former boss of mine said "There's three qualifications for this job: Good. Available. No pertinent convictions. Pick two. You can't get three." It's very true. For some jobs you just cannot find fitting people. And WHEN you finally get an applicant, you may rest assured that he fits into the "cute, but clueless" drawer. Oh, there's billions of people out there who can slap together a web page, and hey, they can do JavaScript. Why not apply for a job where they ask for intimate knowledge of IA32 assembler? Wikipedia said it's a programming language and, hey, programming is programming, right?

    *facepalm*

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  59. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by SecurityGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This isn't quite as nuts as it reads.

    If you, dear reader, aren't really very good at your job and are paid well already, yeah, sit down and do your job. You're already paid fairly.

    If, however the OP's assertions are true and he was hired for one job and is now doing 2 or 3 others capably and at a rate far below market, any manager that acts this way deserves a one way ticket to the street.

    Look, realistically appropriate pay is whatever is reasonable to the parties involved. If you get a genius right out of high school who can do the work of three senior guys for peanuts, you're not going to pay him $150k. Period. He's thrilled to get a lot less. If you've got a guy who is doing $120,000 worth of work and wants to make more than $40,000, you're a flat dumbass if you don't give him a raise. He'll probably be thrilled to get $50,000 and you're still $70,000 in the black.

    FWIW, been there done that. Asked for a well justified raise and didn't get it. I think they offered me 8% or so. I left and doubled my salary.

    Honestly, if you're that good have a casual conversation and feel the company out. If they're not going to do anything for you, leave. By the way, dear manager, that's the equivalent of firing you, and bad managers are the #1 reason people leave.

  60. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by xmundt · · Score: 2, Informative

    Greetings and Salutations...
              Haw! I KNEW that when I wrote that line, I was going to get a response like this. Please note that my point was VERY NARROWLY focused on the controls of the backhoe...not the job as a whole. I have a great deal of respect for the skilled trades-person, as they can be craftsmen of the first order. I have seen (and happily paid) heavy equipment operators who have been able to manipulate their machines with the delicacy and accuracy of a surgeon's scalpel. And, since I have a fair number of hours on a backhoe myself, I am VERY aware of the challenges of that sort of task.
                However...to my broader point...how did those artists GET to that point? Partly from a natural gift, I am sure...but MOSTLY through years of seat time manipulating those levers and moving that earth. I am also QUITE sure that every one of those artists will have a story or two of when they were a newbe, and, how they produced some pretty impressive disasters by digging in the wrong place, or mis-judging the stability of their tool. We are all there at one time....and it takes time to get that level of skill.
              Regards
              Dave Mundt

    --
    YAB - http://blog.beemandave.com/
  61. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by JakiChan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When people say "not a team player" in this context what it really means is that they won't overwork themselves in order to increase the value for equity holders. In other words, they aren't willing to give you what you haven't paid for.

    Unless you have a huge equity stake then don't bother being a "team player". Because your "coach" will cut you from the team without a second thought. One way loyalty isn't loyalty.

    --
    "Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
  62. Some simple, but effective tactics by they_call_me_quag · · Score: 5, Informative

    (1)
    Every time your boss hands you some new responsibility ask him "which of my current responsibilities should I push to the bottom of my prioritized list so that I can take on this new responsibility?" Be persistent... he needs to provide an answer. Explain that you can only make a small number of tasks (1-3) your "top priority" and everything else will either get worked on sporadically or fall by the wayside entirely. Force him to prioritize... that's his job. Be sure to get this in writing (email).

    (2)
    Learn to tactfully say "no". I do this ALL THE TIME at my job. I explain that my primary duty is too important to the company for me to get distracted by some additional work. I simply refuse to be assigned the work. This only works if you are really good at your core duties and are not easily replaceable. It also help if you generate revenue. (Suck on that, developers).

    (3)
    Start looking RIGHT NOW for the job you really want. When you find it, drop this one like the stinking bag of shit it is. Life is too short to hate your job... you could get brain cancer next year and die within 18 months... why spend your time between now and then being miserable?

    1. Re:Some simple, but effective tactics by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Funny

      you could get brain cancer next year and die within 18 months

      Nevermind, I don't want the raise anymore.

    2. Re:Some simple, but effective tactics by they_call_me_quag · · Score: 2, Informative

      > I was so astonished by this statement that I didn't know how to respond

      And that was your first mistake. By agreeing to this ridiculous statement you lost all leverage.

      Some simple but effective ways of handling this:

      (1) Tell her, "Let's try this again... I am going to leave the room, wait a for 30 seconds and come back in." That gives you some time to come up with a better response than "OK, I won't try."

      (2) Pretend you never heard it.

      (3) Tell her, "In that case this meeting is over." Turn around and leave the meeting.

      (4) Ask her to put that opinion in writing. If you she won't put it in writing it means she's afraid of the repercussions from above.

      If nothing else, appease her but make an ally of her boss and her boss' boss. And look for a new job.

      Instead, you did nothing and you got everything you deserved. Sorry, but that's the truth of the matter.

  63. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    When your qualifications require things that aren't required for the job, it's easy to find that everyone is unqualified.

    eg: Requiring post-secondary education for a job which neither legally or even to save face requires it. This usually applies to almost all IT positions.

    eg #2: Requiring a mix of experience and formal education that is extremely unlikely. Such as requiring university level education including classes explaining .net products, and 10 years IT experience.

    eg #3: Requiring multidisciplinary education/experience for a single discipline job. For example, requiring java/php/assembler/ee knowledge to maintain a smaller company's servers.

    eg #4: Requiring zero past convictions when your job neither legally requires it and neither do your customers, such as expecting the screwdriver geek assembling your systems to have never been convicted of a sex crime, so you don't even consider the guy that was caught peeing in a fountain when he was 16 and drunk.

    I could go on, I've seen it all and it's idiotic. You want these things? Be prepared to pay the $200k a year that goes along with it. Or be prepared to get the guy who shows up to work every other Wednesday.

    Companies need to start considering every resume they receive that passes the absolute most basic requirements for the job, and then sort them by likelihood of being a quality employee. Then you get good labour at a decent rate, and you have more than 2 candidates to choose from.

  64. already being there ... by freaker_TuC · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I've worked for years in the ICT business, without getting serious compensation.

    I've felt the evolution of "love ICT" to "like ICT" to "work in ICT" to almost "hate to work in ICT" ...

    Maybe a good question is .. how to get rid of the stress, the burnout and the depression added to it?

    The best advice I can give in this; don't wait to long to jump ships when it gets ackward or you'll be the victim of it.

    --
    --- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
  65. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by CAIMLAS · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No kidding.

    And given the original poster's words, it would appear this is a "small company". Chances are he was initially hired as a stand in or for a limited role/limited responsibility, and they hit hard times. He was hired as an "Online Content Writer" (whatever the fuck that is) and is, in essence, a "tech writer".

    This is a job the vast majority of technically inclined people could perform - yet not everyone (nevermind the majority of tech writers) can come close to hacking the other responsibilities he's been able to put under his belt. If he's not gotten any raise at all, chances are he's "vastly underpaid", and there's little chance they could find someone to fill his shoes at all - never mind anywhere near his salary.

    I've seen these job postings. They go something like this (I'm sure you've seen them, too):


    Wanted: IT Professional

    Must be proficient in Microsoft Office, Visio, Sharepoint, Powerpoint, etc.

    Successful candidate will be responsible for routine documentation of our entire product line. Weekly articles for online publication will also be necessary.

    Must have 2-3+ years administering Windows desktops and Linux servers. Must be comfortable with the full range of server maintenance tasks.

    Familiar with phone, fax, etc. systems.

    Candidate must be comfortable with the occasional off-hour call.

    Successful candidate will spend the majority of his time in a customer-facing environment. We are looking for a people person!

    Salary: $35-40k with generous medical benefits!*

    *which you will have to pay for yourself out of your salary. Expect 50-80h work weeks and, between the tech support and meetings, you won't have enough time for your core responsibilities. But we won't disclose this; you'll have to relocate, first.

    Only desperate people apply for these jobs; competent people will be looking for too much levity: either in pay, or professional (and personal) courtesy. As a result, they won't be hired.

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
  66. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by CAIMLAS · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The fact of the matter is that these are high-tech jobs that require a great deal of skill and knowledge.

    And it repeatedly hits me in the face like a brick when I see that people outside IT not only don't realize this, but think it's easy. "Could you have this done by $time?" -> "No. That'll take $time x3, if I'm doing nothing else. How about $later_time?"

    Yet, if the coin is flipped, I have seen "support professionals" (of the higher grade range, which also do other things), dept. managers, business managers, clerical/accountant types, and the like all replaced in function by IT folks. On a couple occasions I've seen IT people shore up the accountant position in addition to their duties.

    IT is Hard - and such a statement is akin to saying "Engineering is Hard". I'd not want an EE anywhere near bridge design, network/system design, or the like. Maybe municipal water system design. However: the point is that these are not mutually inclusive disciplines any more than astronauts and brain surgeons are. Similar starting point (necessary "infrastructure" capacity within the individual), different endpoint.

    --
    ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
  67. Re:"times are tough" by orkysoft · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No raise means they're paying you less each year, due to inflation.

    --

    I suffer from attention surplus disorder.
  68. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by Vectormatic · · Score: 2, Informative

    It could be that the bosses don't have anything extra to pay him or hire more people.

    In which case the business is likely going down, and you are better of finding that out through a raise-negotiation, then by showing up to a locked down office with a "closed due to bankrupcy" note on the door...

    If you go about a raise-negotiation politely (dont start with demanding X percent), it can end in three ways:
    1) No, sorry we simply cant afford it, even though you took over much more work
    2) No, and pack up your stuff, you are fired
    3) Yes, figures to be discussed

    One could argue that in cases 1 and 2, you are better of getting out of there anyway, in case 1 you might soon be out of a job anyway, in case 2 it is very doubtfull you would want to work for people like this.

    this all is assuming that you are paid under 'market-value' for what your tasks actually are, so it is probably very wise to look around a bit first. It will help you make a well-funded argument for the raise, and a realistic demand, and will help you find a job much faster when shit goes pear-shaped

    --
    People, what a bunch of bastards
  69. Re:Bad, Bad Idea by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Whats the name of your company? I am sure many slashdotters can and are willing. The only jobs I see that are hiring are fast food and grocery stores where I am at. There are many entry level college students as well that can not find a job. If you are willing to train you can find some very motivated people fresh out of school.

  70. Re:It's different Now for Corporations & Indiv by Klinky · · Score: 3, Funny

    Meanwhile he pockets the other 3%.

  71. Just don't be a cock... by tyroneking · · Score: 2, Insightful

    1. Most bosses would rather drop an employee rather than give in to demands. This is management 101 and why we need unions. So do not threaten anything and don't stop doing work.
    2. Ask for training. It'll cost your boss and you'll learn something. But don't do it if you have to commit to a minimum contract term.
    3. When you have learnt enough from your new role (but before you learn too many bad habits) start looking for another job. Then leave. Don't stay at your current job - they may offer you more money to stop you leaving but they will always see it as betrayal and kick you later on.
    4. If your employer had any respect for you they would have automatically offered a promotion to you - they did not - so you should leave.

    1. Re:Just don't be a cock... by tyroneking · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Obviously I disagree with you entirely.

      Either his employer behave fairly and offers him the right compensation for the work they have asked him to do, or they behave unfairly and they do not.

      Employer-employee relationships should not be a free-market free-for-all.

  72. roles and responsibilities not aligned by richman555 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I used to work at a company that used to tell me that 'they aren't about roles or titles'. You would have a title so generic and understated that honestly no one could figure out what you do. I was able to leave this job for a 25% salary increase because my responsibilities never matched my title. Companies use this as a ploy so that they do not have to pay you in many cases what you are worth.

  73. Re:You've created your own problem by HellYeahAutomaton · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Have you not heard? These are just lies so that employers can keep wages down.
    It's not as bad as everyone says.

  74. Still need a resume to get pass HR by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Still need a resume to get pass HR and all the other BS that blocks you from getting to real tech people at some jobs.

  75. Free advice from a business owner by salesgeek · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm used to being on the other side of the table. Here are a couple of things people need to understand:

    I may be paying you all I can. In which case, there are all kinds of non-monetary things on the table. Days off, vacation, title, etc...

    I'm going to ask you what I'd like you to do, and expect you to tell me what you need to do it. More money, someone to take over task X, etc... Tell me. Whatever I'm asking you to take over is probably as important or more important than task X.

    Asking for more money isn't a firing level offense by itself. Lots of posts say asking for more money will get you fired. Not true. What will is asking for money and then telling coworkers, acting like you are on a one man strike, or not getting your job done to your usual level. Everyone wants more money. Management gets that. Asking for more money, then copping an attitude doesn't work.

    Understand your golden handcuffs -- there's a reason business owners spring for health insurance, options, 401Ks with vesting, etc... If you have benefits that are worth more than your pay (i.e. wife with cancer on company health care or ownership options), don't be shocked when that is pointed out to you... and be very scared if you are not reminded. I had one guy with $28,000 in 401K matching up in six months tell me he'd quite if he didn't get the raise. Remember, sometimes you are worth more fired.

    --
    -- $G
  76. I just dealt with this by dave562 · · Score: 2, Informative

    The most elegant approach that I was able to devise was to ask for a new title and job description to reflect all of the new responsibilities. In my case the IT department was reduced by 50% and I absorbed a lot of my previous boss' responsibilities, in addition to responsibilities from other departments. By taking the initiative to ask for those things I let the HR department know that I knew I was doing a lot more than was in my job description, and I wasn't being officially recognized for it. HR departments are notoriously ambivalent about changing job titles because doing so is a tacit acknowledgement that the position needs to be compensated the market rate for whatever the job title is.

    I believe that asking for a job title change is the most subtle, "safe" way to bring up the disparity of your situation with the rest of the organization. By doing that you get to ask what is probably really on your mind.. "Are you going to pay me what I'm really worth?" If they flat out deny you even a title change, you know you're completely replaceable, or at least HR believes you are. If you get a title change and new job description you are in a better position to ask for a raise next year to reflect your increased responsibilities, and your proven track record of meeting them. In my case, I was given a raise along with the title change.

    If money is really important to you and you get a title change but no raise, the new title puts you in a better position to find a new job. When I was sorting things out with my company I put my resume online just in case. Despite deciding to stay put where I am, I still get calls from recruiters a couple of times a month. I highly suggest posting your resume on an appropriate forum and responding to a couple of job postings. Figure out for yourself whether or not the market has any interest in you. The odds are that if you are competent enough to pick up the slack of a down sizing, you are worth significantly more than you're currently making. I've had good luck with Dice.com.