Slashdot Mirror
Swedish Pirate Party Launches ISP
WillDraven writes "Torrentfreak is reporting that the Swedish Pirate Party has launched an ISP. Starting with 100 residents in a housing organization in the city of Lund, Pirate ISP hopes to gain 5% of the market in Lund before spreading to other markets. Headed by longtime Pirate Party member Gustav Nipe (video interview in English), the company aims to provide Internet service with the sort of guarantees one would expect from the Pirate Party. Most notable are the promises to keep no logs of subscriber activity and thus to provide no data to law enforcement or private corporations."
Please spread to other countries...
It's legal for a ISP to just don't log activities instead of refusing to handle the data ? ...
That The **AA's are just going to love this idea.
I suspect that they'll just set up bulk mailers to send DMCA notices to this ISP's abuse@ address, every time a new movie, album or anything is released a mail gets sent to abuse@pirateisp.com because no doubt a copy of said work is bound to exist somewhere on their network.
Admit nothing. Deny Everything. Make Counter-accusations.
Fuck yeah.
It's too bad that it takes "criminals" to create a network as it should exist.
... people start using it for child pornography transfer and other things that SHOULD be illegal.
...that a special ISP has to be launched to get the type of protections every ISP should have.
Now that political parties can own ISPs this paves the way for ISPs to cut out the middle man and start political parties.
Assuming it's not, why would any license holder need logs to prosecute? All they would need are billing records. I doubt anyone could successfully make an argument they are not pirating software/videos/etc while paying to use 'Pirate ISP'.
I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
how would you feel if i was able to call up and get your IP from this post - then call your ISP and get your address, along with usage logs so i can approximate when you will be home.
then i'll just go sit on your door step and say hi and talk to your neighbors that i'm just watching you for suspicious activity because you where online talking about keywords "child pornography & terrorism"
now - does it make a difference if i'm wearing a uniform or not?
what if i was a politician and you happened to say something negative about my campaign?
the point is - that we need an avenue for free speech - we need an avenue to be able to anonymous. do people abuse that? yes they do - should we penalize all of society to a nanny/police state for the few? NO..
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
Surrender your rights to us! We'll protect you from the child rapists and the pirates and the terrorists! Did I say that clearly enough? There are terrorists! TERRORISTS! Are you frightened enough yet to let us watch and control everything you do?
That Anonymous Coward guy is pretty annoying. Can we have the government censor him or something?
No they don't. People need to have full anonymity online.
Keep your grubby ass backwards notions in real life where they belong. We don't need that kind of bullshit on the internet!
This paves the way for government (through the dominant political parties) to own the ISPs.
This is a BAD THING, do you really want your login and user data being held on neo-conservative servers?
How much will it be per month? How much can I transfer per month? Is there a time when downloading is unlimited (such as weekends or between 10pm and 8am). Will they throttle the line during peak hours? What speed can I expect?
Logging my BT transfers is the least of my concerns when choosing an ISP.
Summation 2
yeah, so what you're saying is that carnivore is really good idea? bc you use this kind of information to spy people on the fly. if someone is using this network for terrorism or child pornography they can start to log this person AFTER the suspicion, not BEFORE, like this 1984 Minority Report way the internet is heading.
A strong fuck you sir. My rights are more important than your desire to feel safe.
"... this age of terrorism and child pornography ..."
What the hell? You think this age is "different" some how?
Terrorism is certainly not rampant. Look back a few decades, to say, the fifties or the sixties when there were riots all over the USA.
Child Pornography, hell. Look back a century, "children" were getting married to middle-aged men and having their babies. The only difference is, back then nobody arrested you for it, or even thought twice about it.
"This age" is noted only for everybody being declared a criminal and living in fear that their government is going to lock them up if they happen to say something ... like, say, this post on SlashDot RIGHT HERE.
"Flame away, I wear asbestos underwear"
Conversely, how will you feel if someone says that they intend to walk into the school your child attends and shoot it up -but they can't be traced because there are no logs?
Would you be happy if people are able to coordinate planting bombs in a subway and can't be stopped because they cannot be connected to a real-world identity?
With freedom comes accountability, otherwise freedom falls to the thug with the largest gun and the most righteous jihad.
Anonymity needs to have limits -when your right to be anonymous infringes on people's right to peace and well-being, then you lose the right to hide behind your keyboard.
And a hearty fuck you, sir -the health and physical well-being of my family and neighborhood are far more important than your so-called 'right' to download content of questionable legality
Considering those are highly unlikely outcomes, well below the odds of say dieing from the result of a farm animal attack, we can safely ignore it. Terrorism is a very rare way to die.
In those cases they can get warrants and do some wiretapping, this is about wiretapping and logging for later. See the difference?
Coward. There is no threat but the imagined one, yet you wish to give up all your rights for a little bit of safety theater.
If someone said they where going to X school to shoot it up - i would go to the school to stop them
if people where coordinating bombing a subway i would go to the subway to stop them
if i want to speak out about censor ship or have a different view than the current government i don't want them tracking a posting down and throwing me in a dark hole
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
Would that be Pirate_Party.arg?
The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
That's going to be fun for the admins when the server falls over and they need to figure out why. /var/log is there for a reason.
-- I have a private email server in my basement.
And without records you're going to know who to wire-tap how? exactly?
That's right, you're not.
Also, what good is wiretapping going to do when they're not talking over the phone since they don't have to because they can communicate anonymously over the ISP that can't be arsed to save vital documentation?
the health and physical well-being of my family and neighborhood
Let me put you and your family in a prison I design and I'd be almost certain that your health and physical well-being will be ensured. I'm not sure you'd enjoy it much, though.
That is all.
Tell that to the people who died on 9/11, the kids who died in columbine and/or Dunblane and the victims of the sarin attack in Tokyo.
Moron.
Who is going to peer with them? They won't have Parliamentary Protection.
I would assume via normal police investigation. You know the kind of stuff you would not need a warrant for.
You can wiretap other wire than just the phone lines, dummy. With a warrent, no need to be logging everything before.
I guess we should come to expect this level of cowardice from english folks.
Those who trade liberty for safety deserve neither.
That Anonymous Coward guy is pretty annoying. Can we have the government censor him or something?
It's awesome until that happens, and then what'll happen next? Will it cease to be awesome?
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
All y'all
Wow, less than 4000 people, go look how many people die on the road every week, or from heart disease, or even farm animal attacks in the last few decades. Then decide where we should focus our efforts.
Those pirates have easy access to the seas, which means they have access to free sharks, and everyone knows that you need shark mounted lasers to deal with fiber optic cables, so they are getting free sharks while the rest of the ISP's have to buy them.
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
Hey it worked for John Paul Jones.
The US was built on piracy.
Considering how many holes and exploits there are in present day software. I wouldn't get too comfortable with the word "impossible".
Shai Schticks:"You don't make peace with friends, you make peace with enemies"
in this age of terrorism and child pornography
You say that as though terrorism was something even slightly new (it isn't, and has been going on for centuries, if not millennia), and as though child pornography is anything more than child abuse (which isn't even limited to our species it goes so far back) with a camera.
Should we go after Kodak for making child porn possible, or after Polaroid for making it easy to anonymise?
Conversely, how will you feel if someone says that they intend to walk into the school your child attends and shoot it up -but they can't be traced because there are no logs?
won't someone please think of the children!!!
Would you be happy if people are able to coordinate planting bombs in a subway and can't be stopped because they cannot be connected to a real-world identity?
In practice if you're coordinating a bomb plot you're going to use some decent encryption/stenography. not create a "bomb planters conspiracy" facebook page.
otherwise freedom falls to the thug with the largest gun and the most righteous jihad.
except this isn't just accountability, it's also a distinct loss of freedom since you cannot speak without fear of reprisal by those same thugs or jihadists. whoever keeps the logs can be bought, whoever holds the keys can be pressured.
"With freedom comes accountability, they that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
In reality no amount of logging will help with this as all you have to do is chain together a few reasonably good proxies in multiple countries and you're home free.
In the case of serious criminal groups they can rent anonymity from any botnet herder.
Anonymity needs to have limits -when your right to be anonymous infringes on people's right to peace and well-being, then you lose the right to hide behind your keyboard.
the day that words can set you on fire or beat you to death anonymity will be more dangerous than it's lack.
Cool, reminds me of Ipredator. (Pirate Bay To Offer VPN For $7 a Month, Mar 27, 2009)
I'm sure nothing bad could ever happen from a group calling itself the "Pirate Party" taking money to provide internet services for the purpose of illegal activities.
Look past the "Pirate" and see the "Party". Should the Pirate Party get elected to a national legislature within the next decade or so, watch illegal activities become legal.
Look back a few decades, to say, the fifties or the sixties when there were riots all over the USA.
Yep look at Ireland and the Provisional IRA, thats less than 2 decades ago.
Child Pornography, hell. Look back a century, "children" were getting married to middle-aged men and having their babies
Another example is the suggestion that Lewis Carroll was a paedophile.
"Wow, less than 4000 people, go look how many people die on the road every week, or from heart disease, or even farm animal attacks in the last few decades. Then decide where we should focus our efforts."
We can't control those deaths, unless we want to control the general population even more (IE: banning bad foods, alcohol, etc).
If the government put little effort in stopping terrorist attacks, the death toll would likely be considerably higher (because groups would know they could get away with it with little consequence). A good example of this is Somalia.
The stupid pirate party and the stupid Swedish government have just handed a huge propaganda victory to the RIAA. Within a week the entire swedish economy will have ground to a halt and terrorists will be overrunning sweden and building WMDs! Then the RIAA will say "We told you so! Look what happens when ordinary people are allowed freedom!"
They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
Tell that to the people who died on 9/11, the kids who died in columbine and/or Dunblane and the victims of the sarin attack in Tokyo.
Moron.
Erm... all those catastrophes happened irregardless of internet logging.
Did the lack of records of online conversations and identities prevent these particular attacks be stopped? Honnest question here.
We can't possibly fix the roads, or build cities that let people walk instead of using cars. We did not put much effort into stopping them for a long time, and no amount of effort stops the determined ones now, deal with it.
Let's make this a new meme, the similarity of 'Lund' and 'land' beg for it: ...hopes to gain 5% of the market in Lund...
'When the Going gets Weird, the Weird turn Pro.' - Hunter S. Thompson
Child Pornography, hell. Look back a century, "children" were getting married to middle-aged men and having their babies. The only difference is, back then nobody arrested you for it, or even thought twice about it.
I know, that always kills me. People try to say that they're "kids", yet not that long ago they would be married at that age. Hell, people try to talk down on teenagers and say that they're stupid and such, but it's only because society changed to make them less responsible. 100 years ago many of those high schoolers would have had a job and a family already. That's how things were for thousands of years, then all of the sudden society goes batshit crazy and decides that anyone under 30 is incompetent and needs the government to tell them what they can and cannot do.
I'm all for punishing people who intentionally harm others. However, I'm not for having blanket rules because a few old people who had crappy lives decide that they know better than everyone else.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
Posting to undo mistaken mod.
Not that much, actually. The apprentice system tended to keep teens under their master's thumbs.
They don't need to get elected, they just need to get sufficient recognition. In a truly diverse parliament (read: not the US), a party with 10% has enough influence to make other parties take them seriously.
In fact, it has already happened in Finland: remember that story on how the government asked the PP's opinion on the change on the wifi law?
Dilbert RSS feed
http://www.integrity.st/ -- In Swedish, but what it is is a coalition of ISPs pretty much saying "We won't keep logs for longer than is necessary for our daily operations, and we won't go to more lengths than required by Swedish Law to keep and survey logs and traffic."
This PirateISP is, as is a curious trend among many "pirates", a commercial move -- nothing else. If you want your integrity protected, many of the major ISPs in Sweden will gladly boast that they're part of iNTeGriTY.
Back in my day, we had a handful of FTPs in my city serving SOME illegal content to a select few users who were deemed trustworthy enough to be given access. And that was it. No torrents, no rapidshare, barely any p2p. Today, everybody just HAS to have all the illegal content, right now. And if they don't they will take it up with the parliament or the president or whoever. Fucking entitlement brats.
Surely, they have a web page, don't they?
Swedish plasma phys. PhD student; MSc EE; knows maths, programming, electronics; finance interest; seeks opportunities
total FREE software user [...] My movies even come to me legally via netflix.
Netflix Watch Instantly is not free software. Nor are most of your movies free cultural works, more than likely.
And really, in this age of terrorism and child pornography is it even a good idea to have an anonymous isp?
Yes, in this age of very real abuse of our rights in freedoms for the sake of fighting largely imaginary and/or irrelevant threats such as terrrorism and child pornography, it is an extremely good idea to have an anonymous ISP.
Oh yes, the promise to pay for a one-way ticket to North Korea applies to you as well, and I'm dead serious here: you get your Big Brother wet dream come true (with minor inconveniences such as a mostly-grass diet, but it's a small price for safety, isn't it?), and we get one less person who is eager to vote away his and others' freedoms that make up the cornerstone of the modern Western society.
These guys are vikings -- pirates level 2...
...before we have to remind our worthless government of our revolutionary (distant) past.
The only right I want to vote away is the right to vote away other people's rights.
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
But I doubt very much the NSA gives a HOOT about filesharing. They got other fish to fry.
On the whole that is the practical issue, law enforcement in most European countries has made it bloody clear that they have other priorities then go and bust file sharers. And now with police budgets being squeezed, their enthousiasm ain't on the increase. That is what happened in Germany, the authorities just point blank refusing to take action.
So unless the copyright mafia wants to pay for its own enforcement (and somehow I think that Germany will allow private militias, not after the last time) then all this is dead in the water. The NSA might know that you are downloading the latest Harry Potter, but they won't do a damn thing about it.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The only right I want to vote away is the right to vote away other people's rights.
Watch your step here: as an abstract logical construct, a "right to free murder" is not fundamentally different from a "right to free speech" (the latter can also hurt people in a very real way); yet I somehow do not think that you'd want to enshrine the former as sacred alongside the latter.
Storage arrays come with their own wireless access points now. Just buy one, upgrade the antenna, point it at a neighbor's open wireless hub and you're good. Buy the neighbor an access hub if you have to. Then pass around fliers that say "neighborhood music and video backup pool, email suprsekrit@gmail for details". Configure the thing to grant access only to a list, and grant list access only to people known to be local to you (if nothing else by IP address), and you're done. Remember to remind people that the service is for backup of content they own only, and the fact that they can access other people's media backups is a convenience issue that will be corrected as soon as feasible. Ask neighbors to assist with backup quality assurance by viewing the files and reporting errors. Content owners would have to jump through a lot of unprofitable hoops to find it including being local to you (the biggie, generally not gonna happen), that it is you (technical challenge) and then prove you intended some ill purpose not stated (difficult in court at best). You can then backup to the pool all you want. Believe it: your neighbors have a lot to backup, so make the array a big one. If you're super-cautious, only allow access after you've met the people at community events where you serve a common but different cause (church? soup kitchen? UG?). To be caught then you'd have to be socializing with recording industry lawyers, and that seems unlikely. To make it completely impossible include only the people involved in activities unlikely to be frequented by a media lawyer (basically any social event that doesn't involve cocaine). To be truly bulletproof internet services in untenanted apartments can be achieved.
If you have to, or want to, you can use a similar system to aggregate your neighborhood bandwidth and offer free wireless internet to the less privileged (and incidentally the anonymous) as well as delivering immense bandwidth to participating link subscribers. This is the advanced class, and requires a network guru. I have 50mbps and am not using even a bare fraction so this isn't an issue for me, but with neighborhood aggregation I could meet 1gbps bandwidth without using fiber just by running some Cat6 along the fenceline and working out a deal with the neighbors. I live in an older area. Modern US real-estate developments are not purposefully designed to optimize fenceline network strategies, but their real estate optimization strategies are functionally equivalent to fenceline network optimization designs because minimizing street area to salable area ratio tends to yield fences that reach large numbers of homes. Bridging the gaps with fast wireless yields immense communities. In a modern development true 10Gbps aggregate internet bandwidth may be achievable, based on how oversubscribed the service is. With IPV6 it's possible to provide some services as well.
IANAL. Most specifically I'm not your lawyer. Your lawyer would probably tell you that if you lend your brother your Mettalica CD, there's probably a recording industry cause of action there somewhere. This post is for entertainment value only. No anchovies unless specifically requested.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
Uh, wouldn't it be more responsible to maintain limited logs, but only for a reasonable period of time, and with the stipulation that they'll only be surrendered when ordered by a court? We already have plenty of ISPs out there that just don't care about the conduct of their users (I'm looking at you, HiNet), and half their assigned IP ranges are in a blacklist somewhere. But I guess being deliberately irresponsible just to annoy the MPAA/RIAA is okay by Slashdot.
Seriously, the last thing the Internet needs is another abuse haven ISP.
...in this age of terrorism and child pornography...
I always quote the law passed by a roman emperor (Augustus?) that banned prostitution of children less than 3 years old. It was considered an improvement. Now again, what 'age' were you thinking about ?!?
Non-Linux Penguins ?
Exactly. I would turn it around even:
"for the purpose of defending from illegal activity", namely privacy violations.
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
Wiretapping networks is even easier. No specialist hardware required.
...
1. Attach laptop through patch lead to network
2. Start Wireshark
3.
You know how this ends.
Finally had enough. Come see us over at https://soylentnews.org/
If someone said they where going to X school to shoot it up - i would go to the school to stop them
if people where coordinating bombing a subway i would go to the subway to stop them
Yes, but you wouldn't know that they said it because you weren't monitoring them. /Devil's advocate
Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
The ISP would be the maintenance guys who keep the roads open and build new ones if they are needed.
Your PC would be the limo.
Your internet browser would be your driver.
Both owned by you. You don't rent them.
if your not monitoring them they why have a system in place to pull records on something you don't look at?
this isn't a question of monitoring - this is a question of being able to trace online activity.
not a question of witnessing it either but rather able to go back and look at a person's history.
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
The apprentice system tended to keep teens under their master's thumbs.
Interesting point. What would young programmers / sysadmins be like if they have to go through a period of apprenticeship before they're allowed to make their own decisions, I wonder?
Your sig, "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence" is attributed by wikipedia to Robert Heinlein (althoughh I never read whatever book it's from, at least that I can remember), and a typo in a 1990s usenet post refers to it as "Hanlon's Razor," and the name stuck. But don't forget, "Never ascribe to incompetence that which is adequately explained by greedy self-interest" (attribution: me).
Free Martian Whores!
Does The Swedish Pirate Party accept Bitcoins as payment?
Haven't you tried to tunnel your traffic over ssh instead of being worry about ISP's logs?
Do not forget to check out my blog.