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New Jaguar XJ Suffers Blue Screen of Death
An anonymous reader writes "CNET UK is reporting that it crashed a £90,000 Jaguar XJ Super Sport — one of the most technologically advanced cars on the planet today. It's not the sort of crash you'd imagine, however — An unforseen glitch somewhere within the car's dozens of separate onboard computers, hundreds of millions of lines of code, or its internal vehicular network, led to the dramatic BSOD, which had to be resolved with the use of a web-connected laptop."
If you RTFA, there' no mention of Windows. The Car just wouldn't start. They disconnected the battery, and reconnected it.
Fortunately it was going at 0 kph when it crashed.
Still, it would be nice if fail-safes kicked in when the computer crashes with the car running.
"Fail-safes? We don't need no sticking fail-sa*SOUNDOFCARCRASH*"
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
FTFA: "Over the minutes that followed, the software analysed every one of the car's digital systems in search of a problem. The culprit could have been any number of things -- the Bosch-supplied, Linux-based infotainment system, the Visteon-supplied virtual instrument display, a heat-ravaged processor, an errant mouse somewhere in one of the car's hundreds of miles of wiring, or the dodgy contents of a CNET UK memory key in one of the XJ's two USB ports."
Lots of systems running together, in a very rugged environment (for a computer, anyways)... I don't think it's terribly surprising that this could happen. In fact, the only surprising fact here is that it doesn't happen MORE often than it does.
Next step -> Airplanes. It's the best timing to start a parachute business.
They're not, though. The car didn't BSOD, and TFA makes no mention of them running any Microsoft software. They did, however, mention Linux.
I heard you like car analogies, so we put a computer in your car so you can crash when you crash.
Wait, that's not actually an analogy.
I recognize the advances electronic components have created in vehicles but there has to be a sweet spot between efficiency/safety and reliability. I wonder how computer system on cars fair against those on planes.
You got it wrong... No windows.
In fairness, the title is misleading: Blue Screen of Death implies Microsoft Windows, and there is no Microsoft Windows involved in this story (at least, not in the car). Indeed, the only OS mentioned in the story is Linux.
I despise Microsoft and Windows, but I do so for REAL reasons, which this story IS NOT. The summary should be fixed to note this wasn't a BSOD, that Windows was not at fault, etc., just to be fair and consistent.
As it stands, the summary is just prejudiced and misleading.
(oh, sorry. forgot where I was for a moment.)
www.eFax.com are spammers
I still don't get it - why cars need so much software? Older cars worked quite well with just mechanical controls, so why there are so many computers in new cars?
Non-essential systems do not count - if the radio/usb player fails, I'll be annoyed (and I can replace the player with a simpler tape deck if I want to), if the steering or brakes fail, I'll be injured or dead.
So, why the millions of lines of code? Are they really necessary for the system to do the job what simpler (and more reliable) mechanical linkages did in the past (steering, brakes, throttle, clutch, gear selector)? Mechanical devices fail, but they usually give "notice" before doing so - you can see the rusty rod or the cracked link before it fails. Oh, and you still need the mechanical device (the wheels somehow have to turn in the direction that the user turned the steering wheel). Also, people seem to be able to design mechanical devices that work as intended, while software is almost always buggy.
My 28 year old car somehow seems to be able to work and get me from point A to point B even though the tape deck has more complex electronics (well, it has a RDS decoder, Dolby B and C NR, logic controls, LCD display, ability to control CD and MD changers etc) and the electronics of the car itself consist of a few relays.
The critical systems - brakes and steering aren't drive-by-wire and I doubt very much that the ECU is connected in any significant way to the ICE bits.
Oh, and Windows wasn't involved either. Besides, failing by not starting the engine when the car is parked seems pretty fail-safe to me...
Lucas went defunct in 1996. The lord of darkness went dark. But the spirit lives on. The story reminded me of a TR-6 I had in college. You never knew what would happen when you turned the key. Nine out of ten it would start.
They're not, though. The car didn't BSOD, and TFA makes no mention of them running any Microsoft software. They did, however, mention Linux.
Your ability to detect humor is the stuff of legends.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
I don't understand how everything is so misleading and full of shit here. What thebfuck is wrong with the editors here? I've been creeping slashdot since 2000, its never been perfect, but the editors are slacking a lot more recently.
A car without Windows? Hard to "see" that one coming, unless we got "railroaded", somehow.
Well, isn't that "punny"?
Hehe, I guess this is one car that doesn't run on Linux, huh?
(bows) Thank you, I'll be here all night.
Whatever problem they are left stranded waiting for a certified Jaguar technician. On the other hand I can fix my 1985 Jimny with a hammer and a screwdriver and will survive an EMP blast! (I think the stereo is only thing that contains digital components)
US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
regardless of the complexity it encapsulates, since the only visible piece is the button, it constitutes the sole point of contact for the entire power train..
THAT is why use cases are pointless. :-)
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Forget about starting that Jaguar now. What I wonder is how well those modern cars choke full of electronics will work in 10 years.
My guess is that people will be shipping them to India to be diagnosed and repaired.
Windows server 2003: 50Mloc
Recent Linux kernel (with most drivers, something you wouldn't do for embedded systems) 13Mloc
I call bullshit on that quote.
Also, the car not starting implies a non-functioning primary system (as oppossed to something non-important like hifi systems etc.), how comfortable should anyone be that life-and-death parts of consumer-oriented stuff are comprised of "hundreds of millions of lines of code" ?
I got the context from the title instantly... and then it took me awhile to remember that the word "crash" can also refer to a vehicle colliding with something. ...I think I need to go outside more often.
This year both the number and the nature of the reports of car software problems indicate that the car industry is unable to produce functional fail-safe car software. I will not go into the reasons behind this, but it's obvious that there is no quick or easy fix for this.
So if you were to buy a new car, which one would you choose?
Which car has the least amount of car software / bloatware and is modern enough to be considered safe (enough)?
What?!
"hundreds of millions of lines of code"
I don't believe that number
Just a bogoword from an illiterate.
.
I was going to read the article, until I reached this line:
"Our first instinct was that we'd exhausted the car's battery by watching too much Eminem on its integrated DVD player"
Then I figured out their problem. The car simply could not take take it anymore and once it realized they were going to load an 8 mile DVD, committed suicide.
Well, I *assume* the power windows did not respond to user input.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I got called crazy when I brought up this site's anti-MS pro-linux slant yesterday. The thing was running Linux and it's stillbeing blamed on Microsoft!
It's a Bosch dash running Linux for the infotainment. I much prefer Harman dashes that run QNX like Audi, BMW, and a number of other car makers use... totally more reliable IMO. I've actually worked hands-on with some of this stuff, and I must admit, I trust QNX much more for mission-critical applications, like automobiles.
Nobody wanted to buy British junk. That's why all they ended with Indians and the Chinese.
Jaguar is Indian these days. So if they've farmed out the in-car electronics development to Indian programmers that could explain a lot.
I was car shopping last year and I wanted to test drive a Ford Fusion hybrid. Besides the speedometer, all other gauges on the dash are LCD. The salesman was trying to show me some of the features and kept getting lost in the menu system and at one point the dash became completely unresponsive. The salesman looked at me kind of sheepishly and then said occasionally when this happens you just have to turn the car off and let it sit for 10 seconds then turn it back on. At that point I had pretty much made up my mind to NOT buy this car but I kind of felt obligated at that point to finish the test drive so after the "reboot" it worked like he expected it to so he showed me all these neato features. In the car's defense there are some pretty cool display options on that vehicle when it is working correctly. Then he let me get behind the wheel for the driving portion. I went to put the car into reverse to back out of the stall it was in and there was a good sized stainless steel plaque at the base of the shifter on the center console that said "Powered by Microsoft" I just sort of sat there for a second staring at it, and the salesguy asked me if everything was OK. I then just put the car back into park and thanked him for his time and left...true story.
"All those moments, will be lost in time...like tears in rain..."
"Millions of millions of lines of code"
How many of those lines were just comments????
LOL. I've never seen any good programming come out of India, and there's no way I'd buy a car if I knew they'd outsourced the programming there.
After all, if you were a good Indian programmer you'd be in America on an H1B.
I still don't get it - why cars need so much software? Older cars worked quite well with just mechanical controls, so why there are so many computers in new cars?
From SAE's "Automotive Engineering International:"
Consumer radios and military communication devices were the mainstay of electronics usage prior to the late 1950s. When diodes, transistors, analog integrated circuits, and digital integrated circuits gained a vehicle applications foothold in the 1960s and 1970s, the initial development phase of automotive electronic products included the proliferation of electronic fuel ignition, a technology that was sparked by government regulations aimed at reducing exhaust emissions and improving fuel economy.
Engine controls, also an emissions and fuel economy-motivated pursuit, gained momentum in the late 1970s through the 1980s. For example, the 1975 Cadillac Seville used a 7 x 10 x 3 in (180 x 255 x 85 mm) analog engine control unit with 275 components. Its discrete components included 145 resistors, 38 capacitors, 41 transistors, and 36 diodes along with four linear integrated circuits (standard), custom components including five linear integrated circuits and one thick-film signal module, and five thick-film resistor modules.
As integrated circuit technology evolved, it became possible to design many of the functions into the integrated circuits, thus eliminating a lot of discreet components. Today's digital engine control unit has 90 or fewer components packaged in a box about 4 x 5 x 1 in (100 x 125 x 25 mm) {and] the downward trend in package size and number of components continues.
The second development wave added microprocessors and other enablers to the electronics bin, facilitating the addition of such vehicle features as anti-lock braking, electronic engine controls, and climate control during the 1980s. Electronic engine controls were representative of how the industry evolved vehicle subsystems.
With the addition of intelligent power, intelligent sensors, and large electrical erasable PROMs (essentially memory technology), integrated systems flourished in the 1990s. Integrated powertrain/traction control, integrated braking, steering and suspension, multiplexing, communication and navigation, as well as onboard diagnostics represent the broad array of smart systems.
The present development phase of automotive electronics includes such enablers as digital signal processing and 32-bit microprocessors. Computing power is now 40 times greater than what is was in 1975, and since that time the industry has experienced 300-fold growth in the number of transistors on a chip.
Electronics History Lesson [September 2002]
No, sonofabitch, I'm an Indian programmer and I stay in Bangalore. I've seen plenty of American retards who call themselves 'programmers', and I'm better than most of them. So stop talking out of your ass - just because your fuckin' excellency hasn't seen any good code coming out of India does not mean there is none at all. The project that I'm currently working on has an asshole American who does not know the basics of database design, and he's making life hell for me, since I have to bloody double check everything he does. And he has '6 years experience in database programming'. Yeah, right - that's why he creates tables where all the fields are varchar2(500), irrespective of whether the incoming data is numeric, string, or date. And tables with no integrity constraints too.
I conclude therefore, that all American programmers are shitty, and I wouldn't buy a car if I knew that the programming has been done in the USA. Fair enough?
LOL!! this should be modded up.. because it's funny (and true!). However, he was a bit more expansive in his discussions. He probably would have said:
"We look deep into the the brain of this car, that is known as 'computer'. Millions upon millions of lines of code, all searching for the answer to a question the driver has already discovered...."
I am open source, and Linux baby!
That is NOT a Troll, as any (old and experienced) mechanic can tell you!
The British car and motorcycle industries tried manfully to commit suicide. They built pretty, beautifully finished, delicate unreliable junk.
That worked until Japan and Germany ate their lunch by producing tough, reliable vehicles you didn't have to be a skilled mechanic to keep on the road. I grew up working on both the cars and bikes, and have no desire to go back. They were fine vehicles by 1940s reliability standards, but that was a long time ago even in the 1960s when the decline began.
Here's the classic on the Britbike implosion, the car story is similar:
http://www.amazon.com/Whatever-Happened-British-Motorcycle-Industry/dp/1859604277
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Hmm.. if Indian programmers are sooooo bad and shitty, wonder why you guys are sooooo worried about losing your jobs, Indians getting all the code jobs, and so on?
Because managers get a bonus for 'saving money' by sending work to India, and will have moved on to another job by the time their successor discovers that the code is late, over-budget, unsupportable and full of bugs.
Can you name any good programs that have come out of India? Because every occasion I know of when work has been sent there has been a disaster.
I'm not sure why you think he missed it or didn't address it. Should he have preceded his response with "AHAHAHAHA, that's a hilarious jest my good chum; but on a serious note,"
... software is often designed from Use Cases?
They are the most singularly unhelpful and woefully incomplete design documents ever created.
They should be generated from the design, not the other way around.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Why someone would pay Jaguar prices for a Ford Contour.
really, this is not all that shocking to me.
I few years back when the Land rover LR3 (when Jag and LR were still with Ford) we took a brand new LR3 out into the desert with the LR team as part of a LR program that was offered.
Anyhow, at one particularly tricky bit (and I am an experienced off roader) the LR3's computer totally crashed to include engine management and suspension management.
What you may now know, is that the LR3 has a special off rood mode which raises the vehicle by several inches for better ground clearance. Well, one side went down, while the other stayed up. This happened to be the downhill off camber side and almost caused the LR3 to roll over.
Once we re-boot, ie. take out the key and restart the car it was fine though.
Still...lots of computers in the those rides and it's hard to catch everything.
Keep your drivers up to date.
There was an (apocryphal?) story that Lucas's ignition systems only worked at all because Joe Lucas had a pact with the Devil, and every time Joe wondered if he'd made a mistake, an ignition system failed somewhere.
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
"hundreds of millions of lines of code"
quote from south park:
Mitch: W-we're not sure what exactly is going on inside the town of Beaverton, uh Tom, but we're reporting that there's looting, raping, and yes, even acts of cannibalism.
Tom: My God, you've, you've actually seen people looting, raping and eating each other?
Mitch: No, no, we haven't actually seen it Tom, we're just reporting it.
What OS(es) does the Jaguar XJ Super Sport run? It could be a mix of many, but does anyone have a list?
Many years ago, I was at Ford Aerospace, where we had some slight involvement with the Ford EEC IV engine control module. The designers of that were paranoid about a failure of the module making the car immobile. So they did the following:
Designers today are not being sufficiently paranoid. They're assuming that the entire system stays up and that tow trucks are easily available.
Jaguar was Ford for some years and they use a lot of microsoft code. There might be some in these jaguars then, who knows.
I do know the complexity and expense of modern cars is ridiculous. My vehicle has zero computers in it, none at all, nor do I ever want any. New cars (not even luxury, just plain basic transportation) cost what *houses* cost just one generation ago. This is just insane. You don't need a forty way computer controlled adjustable rear view mirror, or any of that other nonsense.
Although, to be fair, it is a good way to separate cash from people who just have more money than they need or should have. That's my opinion of course, others may think differently, but this over priced over computerized overly complex car market is out of control. No wonder the have so many problems and need to be bailed out, or can't turn a profit and need to be bought out/sold, like jaguar did several times now. A brand new car that expensive that won't even turn on and run without a flown in diagnostic technician?? WTF? Crazy.
Just because you can make something ridiculously expensive and complex, is not necessarily a good enough reason to do so.
"After all, if you were a good Indian programmer you'd be in America on an H1B"
Nope, why the fuck would I come to the USA and live like a bum, while I can live like a King in India, buying my own house, car and every goddamn gizmo I could lay my hands on, well within 5 years of my first day at work? Yup, 26 year old techies in India have all of the above generally. So get the crap out of your head that the USA is the mecca for Indian techies. That was the case 10 years back, it's no longer so. Understand that.
Look at you guys, arguing about who has better programmers when you're all the same. How shameful.
Everyone knows the only good programmers are in Canada, bitches.......... :)
(why not join in, I can't help it!)
A small penis isn't the only thing you'll need to compensate for!
... when British cars were noted for leaking oil, not memory.
My vehicle has zero computers in it
Really? What model year is it, 1960? Does the term "embedded system" mean anything to you?
Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
Yeah the British Car & Bike industries did kill themselves with a combination of crappy designs (Austin Allegro?) & Working practices.
Turn the clock forward to today.
The Automotive industry in the UK is amongst the most productive anywhere in the world.
It is also the home of the majority of the F1 teams.
As for bikes,
Triumph make some of the best & most reliable bikes around today.
So plese go back to reading your tomes of ancient history.
I ride Triumphs. Have done since 1969 when I bought my first T120. some were good ('69 T120). Some were pure crap('82 T140AV)
My current one is a 2004 T100. 60K miles on the clock. The only time it has let me down was a broken chain and that can affect any chain driven bike.
Ok?
Why aren't thermostats the round Honeywell mechanical jobs anymore? They worked.
Why are egg timers in your kitchen all electronic now? Mechanical timers worked.
Why does your washing machine have electronic controls now instead of the big mechanical dial with 4 modes on it?
Why is your electricity meter an electronic counter now instead of the mechanical spinning thing with 5 dials?
Why does the tape deck in your car have an electronic tuner instead of a dial, variable capacitor and a string loop with a needle on it to indicate the station?
Why are watches electronic (quartz) now instead of complex movements?
The answer is the same in all cases. It's because software and electronics are cheaper and do the job better than the old mechanical device did. Your washing machine can have more flexible modes, like the ability to extend the rinse cycle in increments, or even add a 3rd rinse. Your thermostat can have a setback mode to save energy when you aren't there. Your egg timer can be set to beep 5 minutes before the timer expires. Your electricity meter can count daytime electricity different than nighttime electricity. Your tape deck's tuner can select stations more accurately, have simpler preset stations (ever see how the 5 preset buttons on a radio with a tuner know worked? very complex) and is much smaller. Quartz watches keep time more accurately than mechanical watches, last longer and can have chronographs and other functions without adding a lot of cost.
And in the end, it's really the flexibility of software that wins out. Software can be programmed to do a lot more complex things and can be reprogrammed to do it slightly differently very cheaply, no need to change tooling as you would to change mechanical parts.
Remember what mechanical adding machines and cash registers looked like? What they worked like? A mechanical cash register had to have far more buttons (10 for each digit) and was limited in what it could do. Want to put in 5 identical items? You had to pull the lever or push sum 5 times. Meanwhile electronic cash registers don't just add. Sure they can calculate different tax rates on different items, that's just the beginning! You don't just put prices of items into the cash register, you put it items. And the cash register knows the price of the item, knows whether it has a special tax rate (like groceries sometimes do) and knows if you get a discount for buying 5 of them. And it also does inventory control, it sends info back to the central computer at the store to indicate they've sold 10 widgets. At the end of the day, the system figures out you've sold over 80% of the widgets in stock and the system suggests you order more widgets from your supplier.
That kind of "behind the scenes" stuff also takes place in cars. A modern car like this Jaguar emits fewer trace emissions in a year than your car does in a day and this is due to the tight engine control possible with a sensor package and control software.
A modern car knows if you're in the car. It unlocks the door if you're outside and pull the handle, it just senses your key (which is more of a fob) in your pocket. It auto locks when you get out. When you're inside, all you have to do to start it is touch a button, since it knows the key is inside, you don't have to insert it into a lock (and mechanical locks wear out, as I'm sure you with a 30 year old car can attest). When you touch the button, it cranks the car until it starts, no less, no more. No need to hold down the button until the engine catches. And if the car is already running it doesn't try to start the car and make a screeching sound. While its running, if your turn on the A/C and it puts more idle load on the engine, it applies more idle throttle to the engine so that it doesn't stall. If you let out the clutch a little too fast, it applies throttle to prevent a stall there too. If you put the clutch in and the gas at the same time, it will cut the engine off at 4,000 rpm to prevent over rev damage. You have an electronic parking brak
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Its depressingly sad that they can't at least implement watch dogs that actually work. If they could get that wrong god knows what else is fucked up about these vechicles.
I hope that the braking systems does not crash like this as doing a hard power off reset is not easy to do at speed.
From TFA: ...watching too much Eminem on its integrated DVD player.
Well, there's your problem.
-- I have a private email server in my basement.
I was looking through a BMW sales brochure from `81 and among the features that they were promoting at that time which have since been abandoned was one that I love: "An absence of the irrelevant"
Because managers get a bonus for 'saving money' by sending work to India, and will have moved on to another job by the time their successor discovers that the code is late, over-budget, unsupportable and full of bugs.
30 yr (in the field) software guy, here.
have to say, there has NEVER been the statement made or overheard (in my experience) that went along the lines of: "lets outsource to india since we can improve our software quality". NO ONE ever says that. they ALWAYS say: "lets outsource to save money."
note, this does NOT say that indian programmers are any better or worse. that would be absurd! people are people. but lets be honest: no one ever outsources to *improve* quality or to at all address it. its ONLY to save money due to the cost of living being a fraction of what it costs over in the US.
being here in the bay area, I can say for a fact that whatever skill or job you need, as a company, you can find local labor that can do the job and do it well. the ONLY issue is that we have a VERY high cost of living here and companies are looking for ways to BYPASS that. but make no mistake, all the expertise we need (for both high and low tech) is here already. the ONLY reason to go outside is to save money. no one goes outside to find skills that 'dont exist' locally. that's a fallacy sold to you by MS, Google and the rest who benefit from cheap h1b labor ;(
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
Can you name any good programs that have come out of India? Because every occasion I know of when work has been sent there has been a disaster.
Well, I'll tell you about a failure instead of a success.
There was this project in which I was the Senior Consultant/Technical Architect, implementing a certain Supply Chain planning software, and there was a huge amount of data integration involved. Now, the sales team (Americans, all) had promised the moon to get the contract, so when I actually sat down with the client, I was horrified with the client's expectations, both in terms of work and timeline. I (and the Project Manager, both of us Indians) started convincing and negotiating the timeline and scope with the client. The client was naturally pissed and we had to take a lot of shit from them during the discussions. The issue was escalated to senior management (Americans again), and we received instructions from them to 'find a middle path' since we couldn't 'afford to lose this client'. In the end, we ended up with requirements that involved just too much customization to the pre-existing product (and a very aggressive timeline too).
Now, when we began building the team, pressure was put on us by some members of senior management (Americans, btw) to keep the number of billable resources to a minimum so that we wouldn't exceed our budget. We got together 10 resources (much less that what I'd have liked), out of which 3 were crap (But hey, that's bound to happen in any project, anywhere). I started asking the client for access to a dump of their data, or at least a subset of it. Now, their data maintenance was outsourced to a third company, and with all the bloody bureaucracy there ('Data security issues', interdepartmental protocol, and so on), it was 3 weeks before we started to get some data. Realize that I had returned to Bangalore now after taking all the shit from the client during the requirement discussions, and was building the technical team and kick-starting the project offshore. So all conversation with the customer was telephonic, not to mention the timezone issues. We had an 'on site coordinator' (American btw), but though he was technically good, he wasn't efficient in getting things done, pushing the client for data, and so on.
When we actually got the data, we found that the code we had written so far (remember, we were working blind all this while, with only the 'documents' to guide us) needed significant changes. And they never gave us a complete consistent dataset - it was all trickling in one by one, and extracted at different points in time. So we got data for salesorders which referred to certain items, while the items dataset had none of those items! Lot of such inconsistencies made life hell for us, and our database.
I won't ramble on and describe all the other shit that we had to face on that project, but the end result was an over-budget, delayed project. Which was implemented in the end, but only after the 'Indian offshore team' was blamed for all the ills of the world. As far as I know, the client is still using the product and is happy with it now - their retarded end users have got a good feel of the product by now, I suppose. But who got blamed for no fault of theirs? The Indians. Who worked their asses out to successfully finish the task inspite of being fucked from all directions? The Indians. And who gets blamed and vilified in the end? Yep, the Indians!
I have heard (and seen) similar things in several (not all) projects.
Good call @purplerasion!!!!!
But we all know is......wait for it.........
42!!!!
Because every occasion I know of when work has been sent there has been a disaster.
Well, fuckpot - considering that almost everything is sent to India nowadays, if everything done by Indians in India is 'a disaster', the software industry should have just imploded by now, isn't it?
I would be surprised if there is significant Indian contents in Jaguars currently. (a)it was a fairly recent acquisition. (b)Indians themselves cannot compete even at the entry level segment (Tata Nano is a glorified riding mower).
OTOH, at least Jaguar owners now have the 'luxury' of free Indian tech support.
A good friend of mine crashed a Minardi F1 car a few years ago. The car was pulling out of the garage during testing and stalled un-expectedly. The team spent a while trying to find the source of the problem until my friend realised what was going on and suggested unpluging the in-car cameras (which my friend was installing for the whole grid) from the CANBUS. That fixed the problem.
No other cars were effected by the bug.
Actually, the best programmers _ARE_ in america:
http://www.fastcompany.com/node/28121/print
Most bug-free and mission critical code on the planet (and beyond).
Here be signatures
I will never, EVER buy a car that does not at minimum have the steering wheel mechanically linked to the front wheels, and the brake pedal mechanically linked to the master cylinder; where it is IMPOSSIBLE for the computer to get in the way.
Is that you, Sir Lucas? Was your death greatly exaggerated?
This time, it can't be fixed by a shot of wd-40 in the distributor cap..
The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
Wow, this response from an 'Indian' has grammatical English much as a literate American would write... Just saying...
Clearly they were driving around like reckless idiots so the car's computer clearly interceded and refused to let the start the car again the next day. When the technician arrived, nothing was wrong, but after looking at the data from the boys previous wild joyrides, he decided that the car would be best returned to Jaguar, all the while mumbling about something about 11 million lines of code and systems crashing.
zosxavius photography
I had a 1986 VW Golf diesel that had only two computers in it:
A digital one, as a microcontroller in the cheap radio
An analog mechanical one, in the fuel pump
And as late as a 1997 Canadian-spec Golf or Jetta diesel could be the same way, albeit with another computer in the instrument cluster.
Obiously the real question is why the system is running floppy.sys - is there really a need for that in an XJS?
My vehicle has zero computers in it, none at all, nor do I ever want any.
I like fuel injection - it's much less of a hassle than carburetors, especially in a sporty car where the carbs can be more complex than a computer. I'll take a computer for that purpose. Other than that, not so much. Anti-lock brakes maybe?
I recently had my car refuse to start (in heavy traffic) due to a part that didn't need to exist - a crank position sensor. My 1981 280ZX had a nifty distributer with no points to adjust, but no computer either. The timing was adjusted as eneded through the warm-up cycle through a series of vacuum switches and some clever vacuum and/or gates. If that vacuum business failed the car still ran.
With my newer car, when a simple sensor failed, the car was dead. The computer couldn't fail safe - it had no input to know when to fire the spark. How could replacing a distributor with a system like that possibly be a good idea? Take a system that meets the needs but fails safe, and replace it with (a more expensive!) one that meets the same needs, but fails dangerous? WTF
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
The economic benefits conferred by a fully software-controlled control loop over a bunch of hacked vacuum plumbing are substantial. Society has collectively decided that the reduction in emissions and the increase in performance is worth the 0.001% additional risk of a crank-position sensor failure.
This sort of reasoning happens a lot, it turns out. And the truth is, cars have never been more reliable than they are now... not even close.
My last truck, a '86 Nissan had no electronic computers in it, not even in the radio. Did very well on the pollution test as well, even without a catalytic converter.
Before that I had a '84 diesel Nissan pickup. That didn't even need electricity to run (given a hill to start it on).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Don't get me wrong, I dislike Microsoft as much as the next guy. Their monopolistic practices appall me and their unspeakable marketing leaves me cold.
But let's get one thing straight. MS Windows is unarguably one of the greatest achievements made by mankind. It 'just works' on any computer. Windows has empowered literally millions of people to start using a computer who otherwise wouldn't have.
It's just a (terrible) shame that it is in the hands of one proprietary company.
Just this week I downloaded Ubuntu 10.04 and I did a trial run on one of my computers. It didn't recognize that computer's network adapter. So no Internet. I was reduced to trying out the default-installed Suduko program. What use is an OS if it doesn't even let you go on the net?
Disclaimer: I don't work for Microsoft, I'm not an MS shill, and I'm not trying to bash Linux (actually I like Linux and I hope it succeeds)
And to finish, this story doesn't even have anything to do with Windows, or even the famous Windows blue screen of death, it's a proprietary system (not Microsoft's) that failed. Shame on the editors for trying to demonize Microsoft when Microsoft wasn't even involved in the first place.
Today all new cars have several onboard computer systems controlling various functions from brakes to fuel to suspension. The real surprise is not that this car has a problem, but that other cars don't! I have to say that this is a real pat-on-the-back for the programmers writing this code as we don't see this in any other discipline I am aware of
lyThey've had notorious faulty electrical systems for decades.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
iirc, in the US, the brakes still have to some mechanical linkage. My ABS can fight me to the death, but if I stand on the pedal, the car is going to stop. Thankfully, the ABS crashes by ceasing to function, I would HOPE all the time.
Are you surprised? High time you stopped stereotyping Indians based on call center experiences.
It's not, though. He didn't get the humour, and TFGP makes no mention of Achilles. He did, however, mention Linux.
Is it just me, or do other people think of a "flux capacitor" whenever someone mentions the words "catalytic converter" ?
ONE POINT TWENTY ONE GIGAWATTS!
I work with plenty of geniuses originally from India/Bangladesh. I've gone to school with Indians of average Intelligence, and I've had to deal with less than inspired Indians over the telephone.
There is only one constant between the three groups... poor English grammar.
The only brown people I know with a good grasp of English grammar were either born in this country (canada), or raised from 3yo.
Of course, one of my early software mentors is the exception that proves the rule. He is an extremely eloquent speaker in multiple languages; not a hint of an accent.
One thing that is an absolute must in dealing with ESL folk is patience. I can't speak another language other than English, so i have mad respect for anyone who can learn a second language. If they are willing to take the time to learn my language so that they can communicate with me, the least I can do is be patient and give them the time they need to communicate as best they can.
All this is of course anecdotal. Im old enough to know that stereotypes are just another assumption (making an ass of u and me). One other anecdotal finding about Indians that I have found is their passion for doing a good job. I think that this passion totally outweighs any communication issues.
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Yes... I want a car with points, a coil and a battery for ignition.
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Lights are nice too.
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And perhaps a wireless.
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Computers? Lines of code?
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forget it.
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Voting up, Voting down - If I really gave a fuck about your approval or not, I'd come and ask you.
An unforseen glitch somewhere within the car's dozens of separate onboard computers, hundreds of millions of lines of code, or its internal vehicular network, led to the dramatic BSOD, which had to be resolved with the use of a web-connected laptop.
That's nothing, the new Jag has at least two even more serious flaws that will hamper marketing efforts - the price tag, and the fact that it looks a lot like a Buick.
Also, I'm not advocating going back to carburetors or anything, but I'm also not sure a car needs to rely on "hundreds of millions of lines of code" or "dozens" of computers. Who is the chief engineer of this project, Rube Goldberg IV?
This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
Curiously, whatever problem caused the XJ to crash also caused it not to respond to the laptop's reboot command, meaning we had to treat this £90,000 Jag like we do our janky old HP laptop: we disconnected the battery, killed the power and restarted it manually.
Even the cheapest Desktop/Laptop will respond to holding down the power button for a while and does not require the removal of the power cords/batteries. That is a serious design flaw.
I wonder how long it will take until this error happens while someone is going at MAXSPEED.
Everyone who buys Wild Hunt will receive 16 specially prepared DLCs absolutely for free, regardless of platform.
I usually respond with 'And by literally, you mean metaphorically.' But I guess your idea is cool too. :)
"I got called crazy when I brought up this site's anti-MS pro-linux slant yesterday. The thing was running Linux and it's stillbeing blamed on Microsoft!" - by WiglyWorm (1139035) on Saturday August 14, @11:39AM (#33250898) Homepage
Well, you've got to understand 1 thing around here: Per my subject-line above, there's just WAY TOO MANY *NIX "fanboy zealots" around here, as well as "firefox fanboy zealots" too.
They're SO bad that they'll outright "gang up" on you if you state any facts to the negative about either Linux or FireFox especially (& to a lesser extent, Chrome or BSD variant OS like MacOS for example or FreeBSD)...
Additionally: YES, you're absolutely correct in that you'll get called ALL kinds of names here if you upset the "pecking order" that is established around here by the masses (not really, 'they're' just usually a single user using multiple registered accounts here, for use as shills/trolls here really), however, you can rest assured that the rest of us don't have their "reality distortion screen" applied (or worse yet, that we're not hired shills for those parties either that are called "online perception management firms" (i.e. paid shills on forums etc./et al - in fact, you can ask Mr. Bruce Perens about that as he posts here and is a known figure in the LINUX world)), &/or that we realize they are either paid for hire shills OR dwelling in their illusions SO badly, they even bullshit themselves... & usually, QUITE badly!
"DISCLAIMER":
I am, admittedly, QUITE the "Windows 2000/XP/Server 2003/Windows7 fanboy" (especially the latter 2 OS' from Microsoft)
DISCLAIMER TO MY "DISCLAIMER" ABOVE:
HOWEVER, even I know when Windows variants are not as good as they can or should be, & I have even confronted and "put down" (told the truth via tests & facts on rather) Windows 7 to a senior mgt. figure here for MS in their "Windows Client Performance Division" in ForeDecker (MS senior mgt. VP figure who posts here) & he admitted I had a point on HOSTS files, DNS Cache Client service & more in Windows VISTA/Server 2008/7. I will call a spade a spade when need be in other words, whether it's my fav, OS or not...
On the reverse/flipside??
I will say that Linux has merits as I have here http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1750240&cid=33214838 & here recently in fact (during my vacation this summer in europe I am testing both PC-BSD & KUbuntu Linuhttp://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1754504&cid=33255564x on a laptop & actually LIKING them nowadays at least. They're truly "getting there", @ last, imo @ least (I have been testing linux & bsd variants on the job and at home since 1994)).
Still, if you say 1 thing bad about Linux or other *NIX variants around here though, by way of comparison? Prep yourself for flaming and blatantly off topic ad hominem attacks & more (especially if you used facts to bolster your points and the words + tests of respected & reputable others/sites online etc., as to the latter ad hominem + off topic attack techniques the Linux/FireFox fanboy trolls & paid for shills utilize when they are clearly "on the ropes" & beaten).
APK
P.S.=> In other words/in short: Don't sweat it - the rest of us recognize when normal honest folks post a valid point and the trolls/shills under their "reality distortion shields" & paid for trolling give those like you a hard time, & especially when they have to resort to flaming ad hominem attacks, grammar/spellcheck off-topic type b.s. & the like... now, I predict this post of mine will be downmodded to hell, but at least I told it how it is, as have you! apk
if the entertainment system has a Linux-instance in it, then bloody-right it's got hellazillions of limes of code ( even though lemons have more vitamin-c, and therefore are better for travelling across the "pond" with )...
pull the current sources, today, and count the lines ( manually ), and get back to us when you discover whether "hundreds of millions" would take 2 or 3 instances of Linux running in the machine,
AND when you've figured-out whether there are 2 or more different versions of Linux in the car...
ON TOP OF the code running on it, the libs for the other modules, etc...
Cheerses, dood...
And for what a house costs now you could buy a castle in the 14th century, and probably a minor kingdom in Roman times.
True, there still are the "lemons" - both as a "this car is a lemon" and "this make/model/year is a lemon". However, I've ran 50k kilometers in my 1992 car without issues, and with few things more than fuel, oil and water. Most of the time, modern cars need little more than fuel (but in many cases when an old car would chug along, these new cars stop).
Have you tried turning the car off and back on?"
The economic benefits conferred by a fully software-controlled control loop over a bunch of hacked vacuum plumbing are substantial. Society has collectively decided that the reduction in emissions and the increase in performance is worth the 0.001% additional risk of a crank-position sensor failure.
How come no one ever asks me before society "collectively" decides things? I think what you really mean is "that sensor failure only affects you; if it affected me that would be different". At least, that seems to be how "common good" is used in my experience.
Seriously, there's no benefit here - eliminating the distributor is no more effective, more expensive to make, and less reliable in practice. "Software" is certainly not a synonym for "more reliable", and mistaking it for such in a life-safety application is folly.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
This is why I prefer my 2000 Jeep TJ with zip up windows, manual fold-down top, manual adjusting mirrors, and where the most technologically advanced item is the RFID chip in the key and ignition. That way the government can't shut down my car with a few strokes on the keyboard, and that would be hacker-serial killer won't be able to control my car :P.
(Shrug) The statistics say otherwise.
Mind your place! You're a fucking statistic, not a real person like we, the self-appointed elite!
Again, there's no actual benefit to this change, except the joy of forcing others to live according to your rules. But then, that's what you value most, right?
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Fly by wire has been around longer than drive by wire ...