Slashdot Mirror
Brazil Considering Legalizing File Sharing
An anonymous reader writes "It looks like Brazil may be the country to watch if you're interested in much more consumer-friendly copyright laws (assuming US diplomatic pressure doesn't interfere). As that country goes through a copyright reform process, among the proposals is one that would create fines not just for infringing, but also for hindering fair use and the public domain. Also, there is a big push underway, with widespread support — even from some artists groups — to legalize file sharing in exchange for a small levy (~$1.74/month) on your broadband connection. Of course, one reason why Brazil may be doing it this way is because of the massive success the Brazilian musical genre technobrega has had by embracing file sharing as a way to promote new works, and making money (often lots of it) through other avenues, like live shows."
3 ... 2 ... 1
Yet another country that realizes you can make more money if the music is free. Didn't the Grateful Dead already figure this out?
GENERATION 25: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social exper
I'd gladly pay a buck seventy-five if it would keep the legals off my back. Just like up here in Canada where we pay extra for CDs and they leave us alone; I'd rather not have to pay at all - seems like extortion - but it's a fair compromise.
Funny may not give karma, but +5 Informative never made anyone snort coffee out their nose.
Sometimes a levy breaks.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
This is information retrieval not information dispersal
What is a little weird about this model is that it ultimately creates a quasi-governmental funding basis for the arts: everyone pays a flat fee that gives them unfettered access to all the world's music (film, etc.) - then, who decides how that money is allocated?
Musicians making money from performing music to live audiences. You know, the way they did for thousands of years (figuratively speaking).
Its only in the last 200 years or so that we have had the idea that musicians should make money for a recording of their performance. Perhaps that was the real mistaken concept, and filesharing/easily created copies of musical recordings are merely bringing things back to normal.
I don't download music at all. I also don't buy it. I barely ever listen to it outside of occasionally turning on a rock station in the car. I don't miss it much either.
Honestly, since there is no way they are ever going to stop filesharing, its not a bad idea to legalize it IMHO. Its like legalizing marijuana. It wouldn't hurt anyone if they did that in my opinion, but it would let the government tax the sales. Perhaps thats a solution? Let the government tax your time on a P2P network? Nah
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
Please don't confuse file sharing with illegal distribution of copyrighted material on peer-to-peer networks.
What about artists though? I'd gladly pay money if it actually went to artists.
Paying companies who may or may not represent the artists I listen to, and may or may not have a oppressive contract with the artists I listen to, seems like a perfect example of rent seeking. IMO, it is extortion. Especially since you are paying it to avoid legal hassle. Maybe we should all incorporate as Music Labels and get a slice of the pie.
Really though, it comes down to ease of use and lack of DRM -- aka providing a superior experience. I have discovered that, I don't feel the need to pirate games or music now that Steam* and Amazon are around.
I'm in no hurry to legalize file sharing though, unless there's a good proposal for making sure artists actually get paid.
Also, who buys CDs anymore?
* Yes Steam has DRM, but it succeeds in the ease of use and superior experience categories at least, offering hosted (I hate the word cloud but it fits here) flexibility in exchange for the DRM.
meep
Why not use objective standards, like number of 'registered downloads' or randomized popularity polls?
You can expect all companies of the "knowledge based economy" to immediately demand their governments to impose economy sanction while their expensive landsharks in Brazil files suits in parallel to halt implementation of the said law. The bought and paid for politicians of respective governments would very faithfully demand Brazil to scrap the whole idea or risk their combined wrath.
In summary - Best of Luck guys, it's never going to fly, as the douche bags in the "knowledge base economy" cartel will make sure you fry.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
that as soon as they start moving towards that, lobby groups start leaning on their governments, who will start leaning on the Brazilian government, which will quickly do an about face. Gotta love those international trade agreements.
I suddenly feel very Brazilian right now. I wonder if they need Chemists in Brazil...
iburnaga.blogspot.com
Is that not everything works like music. Video games would be a good example. Once you have the game, well that's what you wanted. There isn't a "live show" to go see or anything. The whole point is having a game to play. If you declare it legal to just copy games, that'll really hurt sales. Any way I can think of to deal with that just leads to decreased game quality:
1) Make it legal to share single player but require payment for multi-player. Ok well that'll just kill off single player games, which is what many people want. To the extent a game has a single player mode it'd be minimal.
2) Make it legal to copy the game, but require downloadable addons to be paid for. That would just encourage the game to be as short as possible and everything in addons. No more 40+ hours RPGs that than ALSO have a bunch of addons, it'd be more like a 2-3 hour game introduction with "addons" having to be purchased to get any real content.
3) Make it legal to copy the game, but allow patching/maintenance to cost money. In that case you'd get broken beta quality code as the "release" and then have it patched some time later for a fee.
For video games that are not of the subscription type like MMOs, a "Pay to get the content," model works the best. You give them money, they give you game. However for that to work, it needs to be required that you pay for the game up front. If you make it legal to not pay. Many people will elect not to (more than currently do).
And how do they determine who gets paid from that fee?
I'm going to go release a million pieces of sh!t songs in Brazil, but if all artists are getting a cut based on the number of songs, it should work out really well. (Just don't tell anyone else, keep it between us).
There's one other point worth mentioning with respect to "tecno brega". From WP article on it:
Music of the genre is created primarily through remixing and reworking songs from popular music and music from the eighties ... Often producing their music with little concern for copyright, the music is "born free."
So, yeah. If you do little but remix existing works, and without paying for the use of that source material, I can see how you can make a living even with the meager profits you'd get. But I don't see how it can possibly be a sustainable business model if everyone starts doing that. You'll run out of stuff to remix!
remix the remixes and later remixes the remixess
I'm a Brazilian, almost always connected, and I've never heard anything about legalizing file sharing. I very much doubt it.
Stronger - Kanye West
Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger - Daft Punk
Cola Bottle Baby - Edwin Birdsong
I'm sure someone can think of a longer chain but that is the most famous one I think.
I hear the Spanish have this already. Their policy is to add a premium to MP3 players, phones, computers etc of a few euros, so that they can download any copyrighted music to it and play it for free whilst paying for it using the premium! Clever, huh?
A large part of the problem is that for a lot of cool games, it takes a large team working on it. It isn't a guy, it is 20 or 50 or 100 people working together. This means it costs a good deal to do. Also the costs of getting everything together and making part of a game can be a very large part of the cost. So unless you want all games to go down to mid to low end indy quality, that isn't happening. Not saying there's anything wrong with those too, but I like bigger, more polished games as well.
Then there's the problem that who is going to be willing to donate for potential future content? If the developers say "Ok we'll make more but it is going to cost us $1,000,000. So as soon as we have that many donations, we'll start work." Like hell I'm paying in to that. What happens if they don't get enough? What happens if they release something that sucks? I'm not putting down money before I see what I'm going to get.
Of course if you flip it around, release somethign and ask for donations, then you have the problem that people are cheapskates. Games have done that, a "pay what you want," sort of thing and the results are pathetic. It averages $2-3 per copy if you are lucky. So using that system they'd hardly get any money. They might get even less if it were commonplace since the people who make large donations to show support for these rare events might not do so.
What it comes down to, is when you pay for a game you ARE playing for your share in their creating it. They spend $5 million, $20 million, $50 million, whatever to bring together all the designers, programmers, artists, animators, musicians, voice actors, testers, and so on needed to make that game. They put up the money and make a (hopefully) good game, if you think it looks good you kick in some cash and get to play it.
I don't want a society where only the rich can have really nice things because only they can hire people to make them. I like it where people can get together to create on a large project, and a bunch of normal people can kick in a little bit if they like it to buy their copy of it.
yay, more taxes for me to pay as an excuse for the government to justify the media corporations why it fail so bad to fight music piracy... i hope they stop the annoying anti-piracy commercials after that
mod me troll if you want, but as a brazilian i am not that happy about this piece of law which adds more taxes than we already have to pay
"life is a joke, and someone is laughing at me"
Fuck that. I don't infringe copyright. Don't steal my money. No new, undiscovered band is going to see this money. It's no different than taking money from the subscribers and giving it to Microsoft, because someone might download MS Office.
-Dave
This is the country my brother just moved to... and he had to ditch all his LEGAL DVDs because they were the wrong country code, and would be illegal there.
We have a levy tax from like over ten years. Every blank media, Ipod, hard drive have a small levy tax. I known artists and they receive checks every three months based on their share of album sales. What that means, artists receive their fair share of money AND you cannot get sued if you, or your children, happen to download music. Learn more from Wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy . Winter have it's advantages!
Tomorrow is another day...
It's sad that the word "diplomacy" was once associated with peace and understanding. In this country, it's synonymous with bullying and threats.
Was copyright invented by writers and artists, to protect themselves?
No. Actually, it was invented by publishers, to preserve an information ownership monopoly based on a government censorship policy.
Do musicians, writers, and artists depend on copyright to earn a living?
The vast majority of musicians, writers, and artists will never see a dime of copyright royalties in their lives.
Is copying a copyrighted work the same as stealing it?
If I steal your bicycle, now you have no bicycle. If I copy your song, now we both have it.
Would creativity dry up without copyright?
If there had been no worthwhile or enduring artistic work produced before copyright, this would be a more plausible argument. But the world before modern copyright was hardly a barren cultural desert: Homer, Chaucer, Shakespeare, J.S. Bach, Li Bo, Leonardo Da Vinci, Michelangelo...
Inform yourself on http://questioncopyright.org/faq, as a bonus you can download a free movie Sita Sings the Blues
http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
because as soon as tv came along, all of my favorite radio dramas went off the air
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_drama
so television obviously means the death of creativity. plus, i want to hold all of technological change hostage because my favorite media is not working the way it worked before new media came along
you are forcing my favorite form of artistic expression to die, just because you want to watch tv. that is so unfair of you, why should i be out of luck just because your new media came along and killed by beloved radio dramas? why does television mean that radio drama actors can't make a living anymore?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I cannot about the guy, but he sure presents things in a coherent manner... legends in English uses the word "moving" when the most proper translation would be "exciting". Other than that translation is quite good.
Tecno brega starts at 3:30.
Video at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKksump9864
As a Brazilian, I am sick of this "tecno brega" talk. No one listens to that kind of music except on the northern areas of the country. If you ask the average Brazilian, he or she has never heard of tecno brega AT ALL. I am not disputing the fact that it was a success *on that area*, in part due to massive distribution with no regard to copyright law, but it does not follow that the genre is important or even significant throughout Brazil.
"assuming US diplomatic pressure doesn't interfere"
US Diplomatic Pressure - otherwise known as an M1 Abrams Tank.
In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
Seriously, I live in the USA and am ashamed at the 'anti-piracy' efforts the government provides to the entertainment industry (...oh yeah, and lawyers). If only the government did this for truly productive professions like medicine, dental, education????? Seriously, the US says "fuck you!!" to teachers, but is willing to throw people in jail because they download a shitty Metallica song?? WTF is wrong with the USA these days?? How many black Americans are in jail at this moment because of this policy?
ANSWER: to fucking many!
USA is ferd!!!!! (ferd = fucked for those who don't know) .... We need a third party to ass-fuck both the republicans (mouth-fuck palin), and the democrats. Even tho palin is like 100 and shit... i'd tap that just to say I ferd hitlers wife, and came on her glasses :)
I am open source, and Linux baby!
Give some of this money to artists? That's crazy talk. The media companies have expenses and the artists have signed contracts for net after expenses. The levy could be over $100 per Brazilian (which would of course be hundreds of $Brazilians) and there would still be no net profit. The media giants are going to need vast buckets of money to pay their lawers to sue each other over the fractions, and probably have so little left they'll be buying their cocaine by the ounce rather than the kilo. They'll be so improverished they'll probably have to procure second-tier hookers to snort their blow off of (artist management entertainment expense). To expect them to have money left to pay artists is unfair.
And artists with no contract? Why would they get money even if their content is an appreciable proportion of the shared content? They don't have representation.
The question I have is, is $1.74 a month fair? No doubt once the media conglomerates have gained a levy tap on connectivity they'll need to open it a bit to improve their profits and "right size" the payment - which is only fair since they contribute so much to the culture and bandwidth is improving over time. Under two bucks a month per connected citizen seems far too little to preserve our culture and enterprise-class multisite archival of these priceless works doesn't come cheap. They're probably agreeing to this agregiously unfair compensation scheme as a foundation for their right to levy fees as tax. Once it's in place it's natural they'll push for fair compensation rather than this modest placeholder.
DRM is essential to preserving the motivation of these artists to create. If there was no DRM, common folk might be stealing their output rather than studio executives. That's hardly fair. Artists are motivated to preserve the studio executives' right to consume vast quantities of cocaine off the asses of the best hookers their art can motivate their fans to pay for. That's why they create these timeless works of art to preserved by copyright in perpetuity protected by the conglomerates they assigned their rights to in return for a modest advance payment. It's a selfless dedication to the indulgence of the media moguls' decadent tastes that motivates the modern artist to create the works we know and love. What every garage band craves is that their agent and his media contact fly to their venues in a decent jet rather than trudge it out on the aging decrepit rented tour bus with them, stinking of stale beer and groupie sweat.
Obviously the fair thing to do is to grant the media cooperative direct access to the national bank so they can levy their compensation against the GDP as they feel is appropriate. Also, remote management of every device capable of playing or recording audio or video should be required so that they can measure and account for usage. To be completely fair, remote access to every camera on every device so they can monitor the environment of net-enabled people is best. That way they can judge whether environmental music fees are due in domestic venues. One can never tell if people are publishing car audio for example, unless they can survey whether the windows are down in the car by looking throught the iPhone webcam.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
could you clarify what "piss-poor" country means? I am sure that with a 200 million population, and considering the heat, it is not piss-poor at all. BTW, you wrote "europa" for a reason.
This is an interesting notion to me. Google owns blogger and there are countless Brazilian blogspot.com blogs linking music files on Rapid Share MegaUpload etc. (there is a lot of really great stuff, particularly Reggae). People in Brazil are behaving as if it were already legal to share files so it seems the Brazilian gubment is simply adapting to something they can't change. This filesharing thing causes no social unrest, perhaps soothes the impoverished by providing free entertainment. A massive win for the beleaguered government of a difficult country. It can hardly be a philosophical question for the politicians, merely a matter of pragmatism. The question I have is how does Google (or Yougle if you prefer!) fit in? I'm often surprised that so many of these blogs survive. I suppose if someone linked fucking Lady Ga Ga tracks there would be a take down notice immediately and the blog would disappear. Legalize it!
http://www.acetonestudio.com
Trans Europa Express
Trans Europa Express
Trans Europa Express
Trans Europa Express
Rendez-vous auf den Champs Elysees
Verlass Paris am Morgen mit dem TEE
In Wien sitzen wir im Nachtcafe
Direkt Verbindung TEE
Wir laufen 'rein in Düsseldorf City
Und treffen Iggy Pop und David Bowie
Trans Europa Express
It is Tangerine Dream, before they went fahren, fahren, fahren on the autobahn.
Yours,
Champs Elysees
filesharing is not stealing.
Slipping shoelaces ?
"I can’t buy a mansion in Hollywood, but that was never the goal. I get by comfortably and will keep making music until I die. High five! What more could I ask for?"
from the http://mclars.com/site/blog/guest-blog-on-dave-kuseks-site/ blog post of his, which expands upon these concepts
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
+1 funny
another funny thing is, the original version of When The Levee Breaks (Kansas Joe McCoy) is the only Free song I have in my music collection (maybe the 1971 Zeppelin rework should be public domain by now, but a 1929 blues song definitely should be.)
* I have some songs from artists that speak favorably of torrents (as well as those who speak unfavorably; the music is alright still), but this is the only track that's PD or CC.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31001_3-20015493-261.html
has more weight than you. Will they go to jail, or prison? Thay may wish they had just
stolen" stuff. As it is, they are in for a world of hurt. They can't hude anymore. Maybe you're on list. Or maybe this time you got lucky. Do you really want to argue it's not stealing then? You'll be crying to mama before it's over, and yes, your life being a living hell is the point.
Who gets the money from that levy?
Brain surgery - it's not rocket science!
Yeah, I like the concept. Not sure it would work but I like the concept a lot.
Make a good demo to get people excited by the game and as you said, if they want more, they have to commit to a donation. Its really more like a pre-order to my mind.
"Like what you just played? If you want more, send us $20 towards future development costs. We estimate we need another 34,500 people to donate and we will begin production. If we don't receive the money we require, your money will be automatically returned to you by Sept 14th 2012, less the cost of producing the check we will send you and the cost of mailing it. Join our mailing list to receive automatic updates on the fundraising and our message board to have your say on how the game is shaping up or to provide feedback on the demo itself."
It only takes 50,000 players each donating $20 to raise $1 million for production of the next expansion.
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
What is it called when, instead of every individual consumer of a product paying for what they use, everyone is forced to pay for it whether they use it or not? What is it called when the citizenry is asked to collectively pay for something that they may or may not use, or that a small percentage of users use the majority portion of that resource?
I believe that would be "socialized music."
I'm a Brazilian and I can say this is really bad and will actually hinder the future progress of the country in several areas.
You see, the piracy issue here isn't with file-sharers. Very very few people are file-sharers around here. The main problem here is actual physical piracy - in every neighborhood you can find a dozen of people selling pirated DVDs and CDs on the streets. This merchandise is controlled by mafia-like illegal cartels and they're a real criminal issue. This R$3 fee is a crappy band-aid which does not solve the social issue, but rather, just gives some money to the media companies.
Furthermore, this fee will badly impact smaller / indie artists who actually charge reasonable prices for their CDs because people would now be entitled to download stuff for free off the internet, without any sort of remorse whatsoever.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_201/6059-A-Nation-of-Pirates.2
I'll just leave this here for Brazil, http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/
Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
Some European Union member states (at least the Netherlands) have copyright laws that permit making a copy of a copyrighted work for personal use. Including works that you borrow from friends. And allow your friend to make the copy on your behalf. Including over the Internet. Including over the peer 2 peer network du jour. In the Netherlands, this is (IIRC) allowed for all works, with the exception of computer software.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
I mean, really. I am from Brazil and I haven't heard anything about it. Can anybody please care to link to a brazilian source?
You know, Brazil is where 2girls1cup originated. Just saying