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Rackspace Shuts Down Quran-Burning Church's Sites
theodp writes "In response to a complaint, Rackspace has shut down the websites of the Dove World Outreach Center, a small 50-member church which has received national and international criticism for a planned book burning of the Quran on the anniversary of the 9-11 attacks. The center 'violated the hate-speech provision of our acceptable-use policy,' explained Rackspace spokesman Dan Goodgame. 'This is not a constitutional issue. This is a contract issue,' said Goodgame, who added he did not know how long it had hosted the church's sites. Not quite the same thing, but would Kurt Westergaard's cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad also violate Rackspace's AUP? How about Christopher Hitchens' Slate articles? Could articles from one-time Rackspace poster child The Onion pass muster?"
As much as I think this whole is stupid and that a tiny fringe group is being given waaayyy too much publicity for something like this, I don't think shutting down its website is appropriate. They aren't hurting anyone (directly) and by shutting them up you are violating their freedom of speech, no matter how ignorant or idiotic it happens to be. Let them continue to broadcast their idiocy to the world and hopefully everyone will ignore them when they realise how dumb the message actually is. We've all heard of the Streisand effect, haven't we?
awesome, it's nice to see a company with a bit of a spine, freedom of speech is one thing, but no-one has to provide a stage.
- tensions in our lives that are attacking our minds, unite themselves together to make our consciousness blind - op'ivy
Really though, bigots, use Linode. They don't have a policy like this.
Sooner or later you get into the question, do people have the right to dislike other groups of people?
So, if someone decides to burn a Bible would they do the same? Look, I am not siding with these bigots, but all this government pressure to attack this stupid church/people, shut them down, and feel them intimidated reeks of police state tactics. Maybe we should all exchange some matches...that way all the bigots on all side are covered and ready to "strike?"
"Freedom of speech" only applies to Government's interference in forms of speech. Rackspace is a private company and can do as they please.
Political Correctness has replaced both freedom of religion AND freedom of speech in this country. We've become a nation of cowards.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
is for all these groups going out of their way to condemn this idiotic church but no condemn the threatened response of adherents of Islam. If one little piss ant church in America can cause so many Muslims unglued.
Frankly, while I find the idea of burning any book abhorrent I think that spitting in the face of these radicals of Islam is more important than not. Either bring your religion to 21st century and join the rest of us or shut the hell up.
So, yeah a small town church with a ego maniac at its helm is burning a book, it is no excuse by any RATIONAL people to react with violence.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
... so I hope that Rackspace would be fair-minded and shut down any site that publishes the Qu'ran. For example, see Wikipedia
To be clear: I utterly despise book-burning and I think the guy who wants to burn the Qu'ran is doing it solely to incite anger. But at the same time, the Qu'ran itself contains many inflammatory passages and should be criticized just as roundly as the wing-nut in Florida.
Actually, this is the part that ticks me off the most about America: thinking that freedom of speech means you can swear at the neighbour's birthday party, or that some company has to carry your drivel.
In reality it's strictly about your relationship with Congress. The actual text of the first amendment reads: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." Basically Congress can make no law forbidding you to be a bigotted douchebag, but a company is not forced to carry your packets anyway. A private company can't violate your freedom of speech, because in respect to them you had none whatsoever in the first place.
In fact, if government forced a company to carry someone's drivel, they'd be essentially violating that company's freedom of press. It would be the government telling them what to print and/or distribute.
And possibly freedom of association too (in forcing them to be associated with some particular asshole or the views thereof), although that one isn't explicitly guaranteed in the USA anyway, only freedom of assembly is.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Since when does free (hate) speech outweigh freedom of religion. To be free from persecution. Burning the Koran/Quran is a form of intimidation, much like burning crosses in peoples front yards.
- tensions in our lives that are attacking our minds, unite themselves together to make our consciousness blind - op'ivy
While the submitter makes it sound like they disagree with Rackspace's decision (head boggle...), I would like to say good. Good for them. Freedom of speech does not mean that everyone must listen to you. Freedom of speech does not mean every company must assist you in delivering a message they disagree with. Freedom of speech means the government can't shut you down because they don't like your message. I, as an individual, can shut you off. Companies that disagree with you have no requirement to broadcast your message.
Good for Rackspace. They did the right thing.
And, to the church I say this - you're hateful fucks. I hope you find out that your God isn't quite so accepting of hateful actions like that.
I'm not sure what's sadder. A backwoods pastor trying to provoke a reaction by book burning or the international media giving the idiot so much free airtime and so many free column inches. I bet the guy has never felt so important. If I were a cynical sort, I would think the media is devoting so much time to this subject purely to provoke a reaction from certain groups in order to have something explosive to report and moralise on. After all, nothing sells newspapers like violence and bloodshed...
----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------
Reading a book from cover to cover should be a prerequisite to burning it.
If you can explain to me how burning someone else's holy book qualifies as satire or parody then I'll accept the equivalence with Westergaard's case.
This situation is closer to a company like Rackspace choosing not to host the KKK's web site. Doesn't exactly make Rackspace a paragon of free speech, but there no shortage of service providers out there who are willing to host the site... most at a premium that covers the inevitable hack attacks.
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
(1) The constitution is binding on the *government*, not private parties. Rackspace may deny service to anyone, just as Dove World Outrage Center may.
(2) There's a legal and moral distinction between being insulting or derogatory speech (Westergaard, Onion) and inciting violence (Dove).
(3) "Clear and present danger" is a recognized exception to free speech. Don't yell fire in a crowded theatre, etc. The *predictable* result of Dove's action is a sharply increased risk of retaliatory attacks killing US soldiers.
IMO any of these three reasons alone is sufficient to say that Rackspace's action is no affront to free speech. In combination, they're sufficient for me to say that anyone who protests Rackspace's actions more than Dove's is exhibiting a lack of understanding and/or perspective so serious that it's the domain of psychiatry rather than philosophy. I say that as a card-carrying monthly-dues-paying ACLU member, by the way. The actual advancement of civil liberties is only harmed by such ridiculous positions.
Slashdot - News for Herds. Stuff that Splatters.
You're the first I've seen making any reference to "intimidation," which is entirely subjective. How are they being intimidating?
To all the people claiming that this violates this church's right to free speech, please inform me of how this is a government action. Because that is what is protected under the First Amendment. Hell, it's the first three words of the fucking amendment...
You misunderstand the point of the first amendment, and the founders' conception of rights. The first amendment does not GRANT rights; it merely acknowledges that the right to free speech exists, and constrains the federal government (and by the 14th amendment, state governments) from violating the right. Individuals, and corporations, can violate people's right to free speech without running afoul of the first amendment, because the rights are PRIOR to the constitution, and are inalienable.
You are thus conflating the "first amendment" as the source of free speech rights. It is not, at least under the American view of rights. Sadly, you've been modded informative, which means many Slashdot readers are ignorant of the basic Enlightenment philosophy underlying American law.
He's just burning some books. Our soldiers are being attacked because they are occupying peoples' homes and supporting a new government they don't all accept. The argument that burning these books would put our soldiers in more danger is not only incorrect, but irrelevant as here we are...giving up our rights and freedoms because we fear the terrorists. Another victory for fundies.
Blar.
Burning crosses carried with it a bodily threat. Burning the Koran is merely a rejection of a religion. Roughly equivalent of burning a flag. Shouldn't all you flag burning communists be supporting this? The mainstream wouldn't blink at burning the bible -- been there, done that.
Rackspace is, of course, free to terminate services with anyone they see fit. I'd say it's probably a bad idea to get into the game of judging the quality of content when you have that much content, however. Someone can be offended by almost anything. And this is what it is about, a group is feeling offended, not threatened.
t
The Hebrews committed genocide at the behest of their god several times. You really gotta check out the old testament some time.
Blar.
Yes there is. Fear. Cowardice. Very few are left with the spine to stand up and say that Islam is NOT above criticism. Even show a picture of Muhammad and television networks run away, newspapers cower in fear, the citizens of the most powerful country in the world turn into a bunch of scared children--unwilling to make even the most token effort to defend one of the defining principles of the Constitution that founded modern democracy. People who would have no problem with someone burning a flag or Bible become apologists for repression in the name of religion. And they don't do it because of "respecting religion." Let's be honest. They do it because they're COWARDS.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Since enabling a non-violent rejection of someone else's point of view is the entire point of both free speech and freedom of religion. Seriously, what do you think free speech/religion/press/assembly is for if not expressing viewpoints that someone else finds grossly offensive?
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
We seem to tolerate, even not care when others burning items that are meant to offend us. We say they have a right to do so and many just don't care about people burning, stomping, defacing items that are really targeting us. When some idiot goes to target them, now we're upset about it?
Rackspace has a right to pull the plug, the government should not step, and burning a Koran is wrong and should not be done. BUT where is our spine when others are doing this to offend us?
I'm tired of our liberal wimps who have the balls to turn the screws to people who are under our law and likely wouldn't bring harm to them over their actions and works. But we have lost our sense of values and ideals when we don't stand up and stay to people in other parts of the world that do these things to offend us. Do we protest, no, we give them money, aide, the shirts off our back. Good job people, way to reward our enemies.
Stand up for your values and ideals and grow a spine.
Now, I'm going to get a latte and flip on the Disney channel. :)
Muslims, and maybe Scientologiests.
The reason is that these groups make a bigger fuss about it. If Christians had the same "hair trigger sensitivity to slightest perceived insult" (quoting Pat Condell) then Christians would be given the same consideration.
If Christians were to start rioting, murdering, or at filing lawsuits, over every silly little thing, then Christians would be given the same consideration.
We've become a nation of cowards.
People have been saying that exact same thing for decades, it's a common right wing whine. The 'pastor' is not having his freedom of speech imposed on, let Fox News carry his message. However, personally, I won't do business with anyone who gives that guy a platform.
"When most people talk about free speech, they're talking about the principle of free speech, not the legal right."
Right... except you're not guaranteed the principle of free speech by anything. Also, even if the principle of free speach has any backing, Rackspace is not obliged to broadcast it for you. Their version of free speech is to not be required to echo your speech.
Right, Christians have never, ever committed terrorism.
Has the last few years really made people this fucking stupid?
The first amendment applies to _government_ restrictions on speech. Extending the right to free speech to cover private companies would make spam filtering illegal, it would make forum moderation illegal, it would make filtering bad words in online chats illegal, etc...
These guys are doing -nothing- of consequence. The Koran comes off of a web press in the tens of thousands, just like any other book these days. So all they are doing ultimately is making a bit more business for some printer. It isn't as though they are destroying some special, ancient Koran that has historical and cultural significance, they are just burning a mass produced book. If they can't see the futility of that, well then that makes them the retards.
Is it offensive? Probably but then when did anyone have the right not to be offended? I see offensive shit all the time out there, particularly against religions. South Park has been positively brutal to the Catholics, the Mormons, the Scientologists, etc. They have been some of the funniest episodes (the Mormon one kills me every time) but I'm sure they offended the hell out of a bunch of people. Tough. Nobody says you have the right to go through life and not be offended.
So these guys want to go offend Muslims. Big deal, who cares? Let them.
Tolerance means letting people do what they want, more or less. There has to be limits, you can't harm others, but there's no reason you can't offend them. Also real tolerance would be on the part of Muslims says "Ya knock yourselves out. Retards," and just ignoring the whole thing.
the whole idea behind the 1st Amendment is to protect and allow EXACTLY this kind of speech.
Yes. But it does _not_ protect your right to use somebody else's services to broadcast that speech. No different than banning spammers. Or giving a '-1: Troll' moderation.
Each philosophy (including all religions) thinks it is the right one.
Two or more cannot coexist in the same space.
People have the right to be intolerant... because without intolerance, they allow themselves to be assimilated.
RackSpace made a stupid error by getting involved in a political issue. Now people will expect more webhosts to do this, and they will waste many more hours trying to figure out what is and is not "hate speech."
Remember, if you're criticizing a majority (whites, Christians, Jews/Judaism, conservatives, men, heterosexuals) it's OK, but if you're criticizing a minority (African-Americans, Muslims/Islam, homosexuals, polyamorists) it's a "hate crime" (NewSpeak for unsanctioned thought).
Futurist Traditionalism
If enough people like what you say, you'll get sponsors, donations, air time. If people don't like what you say you don't. There's nothing saying that someone has to provide to you the means to distribute your speech. You're free to start at the bottom, craft your message and go as far as you can.
There's a reason why beck, hannity, o'rielly and fox news are doing so well. People like what they say. If what they were saying wasn't interesting to people then Rupert Murdoch et all would not have them on their networks. If they don't generate ratings they get the ax. Their ratings are at their highest while msnbc/cnn are consistently behind.
http://tvbythenumbers.com/category/ratings/cable-news
Please don't complain about not getting your platform if people don't like what you say. If I get up and start harping on purple ponies and aliens, no one is going to pay for me to do it.
Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
Agreed. Remind me never to use Rackspace. There's no such thing as "hate speech." It's a socio-political construct designed to limit Freedom of Speech. Yes, Rackspace may have a right to put such PC lingo in their contract but maybe not. This church may be doing something that is politically incorrect, unwise, and offensive to some people but it's their right. There's probably a lawsuit in there somewhere. It's early, I need coffee, but something about contracting away your rights seems fraught with legal problems.
If they're willing to piss off that large of a segment of their customer base? It's within their rights.
Hosted on Comcast, or simply accessed through Comcast? Until network neutrality laws are passed, both of the above -- the latter would make a lovely story in the media, and a great one to tell to lawmakers too -- and afterwards, the former remains within their rights. The provisio about pissing off one's customers and getting media attention still applies, of course.
Look at South Park. They have completely and totally slammed a number of religions, drug them through the mud. They had Catholic priests with little boys on leashes as sex slaves (attending a party for Satan), they had a whole episode mocking the Mormon beliefs complete with a brilliant song, they've slammed the Scientologists a couple times. None of these have faced any censorship. However they tried to show Mohammad. Not even insult him, just how his picture, and it got censored.
There is no explanation other than fear. It's clear Viacom has no problem with mocking religions in general. Why would they? Those episodes are popular. However for some reason Islam is off limits. The only reason is because they are scared. Muslims threaten violence at the drop of a hat, and they just don't want to be a target.
It it pure cowardice. We stand behind our freedoms... until someone says they'll hurt us, then we cave.
The most important part of freedom of speech is protecting the parts you like the least. Yes, that means things like hate, like trolling and so on. Freedom of speech must mean freedom of unpopular speech. If not, it has no meaning.
Too many people on /. seem to have this idea of "All he's doing is pissing off Muslims so it shouldn't happen!" Well yes, that's probably all he's doing. Still should be protected though. The less you agree with something the more concerned you should be with protecting the ability of someone to say it.
...the government announced IDIOT, the International Determination of Islamic Offense Team. The team will be charged with analyzing any and all public actions with awareness factors above 0.5 Lohans (note: the Lohan has now superseded the Hilton as a media awareness unit of measurement by NIST, the National Institute of Standards and Technology), and determine at what level the Religion of Peace will be moved to violence.
The rough first cut ratings are:
G = General discontent and hate speech directed at the West
R = Rioting and demonstrations
B = Burning of American flags, French cars and other related items
M = Murder of Westerners and the members of other, less peaceful religions
T = Planned acts of terrorism
W = Planned acts of war
X = Global thermonuclear devastation
Z = Zombie hordes (The IDIOTs failed to fully explain this one. Inquiries are pending)
I would agree with much of what you say but that. Christians aren't commanded to eliminate other faiths. Rather, to convert the unsaved. It's about changing minds and hearts. The word "eliminate" brings to mind more extreme behavior. That was probably not your intent, though.
Really?
"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." - Mat. 28:19-20
Seems pretty clear cut and extreme to me. There is no room in that command for leaving people to their previous beliefs. Just like Islam.
All that is necessary for the triumph of good is that evil men do nothing.
...how does a tolerant society deal with intolerance?
By using your brains.
Do we accept the "book on fire == hurt feelings" causality as a necessary and normal one, or do we say that it's your self-made problem and if you want to get rid of it we may help, but otherwise that's entirely your problem?
That is a question we can answer. We can do experiments, make up a theory, all of it. Note that I'm not saying they can't have those feelings - but we as society do not have to consider it proper that they do. For example, a pedophile very likely feels actual sexual desire for a kid. That is a real emotion that society does not condone, tolerate or support. We do support pedophiles who wish for treatment.
Still looking forward to the opening of the first mental institute for the treatment of the religiously insane.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
The Muslims have the right to religious freedom to build a mosque right near ground zero, no matter who it offends, but the American "Christians" don't have the right of free speech to burn a few books.
I do think the so called pastor is an asshole, but I thought that he had the right to be an asshole.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Rothbard's argument is relevant, but not sufficient. There's a huge difference between saying that we should consider this from a propertarian viewpoint and that we should consider it only from that viewpoint. Rothbard crosses that line by the time he uses the word "simply" in the second sentence of your quote. As one poster has already pointed out, this situation is complex, and oversimplifying doesn't give meaningful input.
How would Murray Rothbard's argument address any apparent conflict when property is held in common? Do I gain the right to shout fire in a crowded public venue funded from tax dollars? Your Rothbard quote is arguing that all public property is criminal, because all rights can only be sustained where there is private ownership. But, in the US, it took a whole series of special laws in every state's legal codes for theatre owners to gain the right to be treated as though a contract existed without actually having printed one and gained signatures. A right of implied contract exists only because of specialised laws (a privilege or private law, the very word privilege coming from the Latin roots 'Privus' (Private) + 'Lex' (law)) intended to protect theater owners.
Rothbard actually is arguing for the unlimited power of the government to create or destroy rights. How else can the right of contract support all these other rights, particularly when, in his own example, a contract doesn't exist physically, but exists only by government fiat. At the same time, he's arguing against himself, holding that same government fiat is insufficent to grant another right by any other means than through property rights. Since the real US constitution is most emphatically not about how the government grants rights, but how it must rather respect them, neither facet of his argument really sheds more light than heat.
Who is John Cabal?
when the trolls, from the christian world, or the muslim world, or the liberal world or the conservative world, are the ones driving the conversation
the vast majority of christians, muslims, liberals and conservatives are simply good people. but the ones who make the headlines and drive every subject of conversation are the same sort of people you see with a -1 rating on slashdot: the fucking useless trolls
i swear, international relations and domestic political commentary needs something like a slashdot rating system
let the trolls loose on slashdot, with no ratings to tell the difference between something you should read and something you should ignore, and what do you get?: a flooding out of a sane rational commons that anyone with good intent wants to be a part of. you drive good people away, you reward the most useless sort of asshole: the destruction of slashdot
likewise, when the lunatic asshole muslims and the lunatic asshole christians are the ones who set the news headlines aflame and drive the topic of discussion, you get the destruction of the whole fucking world: no civility, no understanding, empty useless seething emotions, until somebody sets off the powder keg. i weep for our children
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Some pastor who leads a might congregation of 50 members, in a run-down part of a state known for below-average intelligence, has come up with an incredibly short-sighted plan and now the whole world is talking about him. While no reasonable person would overlook the stupidity of such a stunt, this guy basks in the controversy. We can't turn on the news anywhere without seeing either him or his trailer. Even though his event is centered around a group of people smaller in numbers than an average wedding reception he has managed to get himself condemned by people all over the world.
While his actions are stupid, the effects - in terms of drawing massive attention - are brilliant. Just wait for copy-cat backwater churches elsewhere to fight for the next great stunt; my money is on someone to burn Obama in effigy behind their church next. Considering some 20% of the US still believes Obama is himself a Muslim (or "Moslem" as this guy prefers), it might be sold as a sequel to this stunt.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
False analogy. It's more like you demanding back a megaphone you rented me because you decide you don't like what I'm saying.
Property rights are an arrangement of convenience for deciding who can use a limited resource, such as a shirt. Thinking that actual human rights - such as the right to free speech - derive from them is completely delusional.
But then again, what else can you expect from a libertarian? The whole ideology is just a convoluted excuse for why you shouldn't have to pay taxes despite enjoying all the protections and conveniences of a society.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Murder? It's a book. A bunch of pieces of paper wrapped in a little cardboard (or stiffer paper), held together with glue and string. Nothing more. Burning it isn't akin to murder.
If you're objection relates to the destruction of the symbols, then it is the speech part you're objecting to.
What upsets me is a religious center burning a book that is fundamentally related to our own religion! Even the very idea of book burning reminds me of, Marge talking about Bart: "There's something about flying a kite at night that's so unwholesome."
sense of security, like pockets jingling...
This guy in Gainsville, with his mega-church of 50 members, is just an attention whore, plain and simple. But he's stirred up a nest of religious bigotry. I'm a Catholic and I lost a college roommate on 9/11, but I understand it wasn't all of Islam that caused the towers to collapse, it was a small group of crazy radicals. I have a friends who are Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Budhists and Native Americans and they are just like you and me, they just worship God in a different way. I vow to buy a Quran on 9/11 to protest this book burning. I've created a Facebook group to get the word out and have others buy one too. I figure we can buy more than he can burn. Please join the group and consider buying a Quran on 9/11.
This isn't criticism. This is trolling, and all it will achieve is angering muslims who didn't have anything to do with 9/11 and help those who did.
Well, if those angry Muslims exercise their free speech rights in retaliation, then we have started a discourse.
But that's not what you're worried about with 'angry muslims', is it? You're expecting violence. In short you're going as far as condoning the violence by suppressing the man's rights, because you're afraid of it.
Kinda puts the word 'terror' in 'terrorism', doesn't it?
Second, you're much more likely to get in trouble by criticizing Christianity than Islam.
The mere threat of burning the Koran by some no-name redneck minister has caused major diplomatic incidents, mass protests, and death threats. Nothing like that happens when you burn bibles. And it's not the first time: look at the Mohammad cartoons or the Satanic Verses; again, diplomatic incidents, mass protests, death threats, and deaths.
A bunch of terrifyingly ignorant bigots are going to burn books for no reason other than to insult a large and diverse group of people.
Mainstream Islam is effectively represented by the Islamic nations around the world: Iran, Indonesia, Egypt, Pakistan, etc., not by the moderate Muslims in the US or Europe. Those nations have a horrendous human rights record, and their politicians and clerics justify their policies with Islam and the Koran. When people criticize Islam, that's what they criticize, and rightfully so. Furthermore, Islam itself rejects the notion that there can be diversity in its beliefs.
In his effort to look fearless he is acting reckless, and ends up looking pretty feckless. If he wasn't acting in a way that could get a lot of other people hurt, and people were actively threatening only him, then he would be brave. But since there are many people that could get hurt and he couldn't give two flips that makes him reckless. Our state had a campaign against reckless driving that focused on the roles that passengers can play in preventing accidents by holding bad drivers accountable and saying something when they act dangerously. Pretty similar idea here. I do hope that Government will not step in to stop this (freedoms are still important), but I also hope that private citizens and companies will not abet this nut, and that news will not cover him. Everyone has a right to free speech, but that doesn't mean that anyone else has to promote his dumb ass.
Know that one? All it takes for evil men to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
All it takes for extreme Islam to triumph is for moderate Islam to do nothing.
And that is exactly what they are doing. NOTHING. And the longer they do nothing to stop the extremists among them, the harder it will become and the more the world will just get fed up.
Popularity of Geert Wilders and other anti-islam people is NOT due to racism, it is the average voter, the middle class, the ones who pay the taxes to become simply fed up. It isn't hate, it is tiredness. And hate makes evil men act. Tiredness makes good men not act. Hitler didn't come to power because a lot of Germans were evil but because a lot of Germans were tired of their current situation and wanted chance. Any chance, no matter how it came.
Instead of so-called moderate Muslims correcting their own extremists, they continue to provecate. Is this new building REALLY necessary? How come moderate Islam is more about protesting burnings of Koran's then about American flag burning by Muslims? Go to Iran, stop one of their many many flag burnings and THEN maybe I am willing to listen to your protests about someone burning the koran.
And this is another thing the average citizen is getting tired off. One rule for Muslims, one for everyone else. Apparently Muslims can insult and declare intifada's on everyone but if anyone dares protest, they are attacking Islam. Where is the Muslim moderate declaring that he will kill the religious leaders of Iran if they declare a single Jihad on anyone? Where is the Muslim who stands up against the extremist of his religion with words and actions that have MEANING?
Islam is not an extreme religion by itself, but it has problems dealing with its extremists. This is dangerous. It would be like US anti-abortion terrorists moving into Europe to spread their hate. Nobody cares if Americans blow up their own abortion clinucs, but keep the nutters to your own shores. Islam fails at this.
And democracy in the west ain't about being nice. It is about the majority dictating the minority. And you better do so, because we don't have a history of being nice against majorities that we hold accountable for something, rightly or wrongly.
I fear this stuff could blow up one day, all because good men did nothing. Because I am tired of Muslims. I admit it. I don't even hate them. I just want them to disappear. For once to open the newspaper and not read about them. Just as I can go weeks without reading about Jews, Christians, Budhists, Atheists getting in the news related to their faith.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Muslim pastor burns a Bible, Christians do nothing. Which group is wrong here?
The values are simply put in different places. When it comes to mind control, end results are what count. Our great Christian Nation is working itself up into a lunatic froth over Iran as we speak, just as it did over Afghanistan and Iraq, using the very same lies and media contortions. And we're happily falling for it again. Clearly our populace has only the barest minimum capacity to learn from mistakes.
Basically, we just rationalize murder and resource theft using different tactics. While I'm sure it was considered, there are simply too many atheists in the West for a big, well-publicized bible burning to have the desired effect in motivating people into a nice profitable war. Though, bible-burning would certainly have an effect on a significant portion of the U.S., propaganda needs to capture the hearts and minds of as big a demographic as possible. There are just too many atheists in the West who would laugh at the "insult" and who would instead feel superior and perhaps even pity toward the East for using such a tactic. So the mind-control experts decided to use the whole terrorist line to get both the religious and non-religious involved in self-destructive behavior.
As I said, the end results are what count; murder and misery. That's the payoff for the dark side.
Getting caught up in the oh-so-enticing mind trap of comparing us to them is how they catch us and make us do insane things to each other.
-FL
Everything this so-called "Christian" preacher has done is against the teachings of Christ. The radio news this morning said that this "Christian" was encouraging his flock to arm themselves! He is one of the wolves in sheep's clothing Jesus warned about.
What's most idiotic about it is that Muslims worship the same God as Christians, and consider Christ to be a prophet. I don't know what a real Christian could do against the likes of this guy, except to speak out against him.
Free Martian Whores!
I would bet money that there would be death threats from someone
From some nutcases, yes. Not from mainstream Christian clerics or politicians. That's the difference.
Says who? There's a long road to making the point you want to.
No, not really. That's where most Muslims live, hence the inhabitants of those nations represent mainstream Islam. "Represent" is all I claimed; the causation is complex.
I see Christian nutjobs doing serious damage to the US, but I don't blame Christianity for it.
There are few self-identified Christian nations left, and the ones that exist generally have good human rights records. And secular nations with predominantly Christian populations (like the US and France) also have generally good human rights records (better than most predominantly Muslim nations).
When's the last time you heard of a major and highly-publicized protest where people were burning large numbers of Bibles just to piss off Christians?
Media don't pick up on Bible burnings because most Christians couldn't care less. There are hundreds of Bible burning videos on YouTube if you care, with no death threats that I could find. Marilyn Manson did it during a concert, and she has a lot more followers than Jones. Even real abuses against Christians in Islamic countries hardly get coverage because few people care.
I wonder if Rackspace is this high and mighty about kicking pro terrorist and islamic jihad websites off their servers?
Somehow I doubt it.
Hey, I can make up random shit, too! Let's try it:
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I wonder if WCMI92 stopped raping little girls.
Somehow I doubt it.
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See, wasn't that fun?
... when your government threw habeas corpuse under the bus.
The book burning is just a side show. The terrorists already won.
At least there are some bloggers on the right political spectrum like this libertarian who understand the actual issues.
Unfortunately these days something that shouldn't be a partisan issue at all is pretty much completely ignored. The right windbags seem to confuse torture with patriotism or sado-masochistic fun and the lefties shut miraculously up once Obama came into power. So now the policy has the blessing of the US federal appeals court.
Have fun living in a country where due process is not a right but a favor that your government can withdraw at any time.
"Land of the free" what a joke.
this guy isn't just a lunatic. This is a measured deliberate grab for media spotlight to sell his book and line his own pocket. He learned well from the right wing fringe that has infiltrated the politics of the last several years. Fear sells.
He is an opportunist that puts his own financial enrichment above the safety of americans. Shame on him.
It is basic to Christianity that there is one true faith and that Christians will work to eliminate any faith other than Christianity.
You need to cite chapter and verse for me there, especially since Christ and his disciples were all Jewish and followed the Hebrew faith. Jews and Muslims worship the same God that Christians worship; they're by no means satanic at all.
And unlike Jews, Muslims consider Jesus a prophet. Jews consider him "a good Jewish boy who did well in his life", but they still worship the same God that Jesus (and you) worshiped.
His faith does NOT require or even allow him to ask his congregation to arm themselves! That is the antithesis of Christianity and decidedly anti-Christ. "Love those who hate you, do good to those who harm you" is the Christian way; that's Jesus' own words. When Peter picked up a sword to defend Jesus against the Roman Soldiers, Jesus rebuked him saying "those who live by the sword die by the sword." You are supposed to love the terrorists, strange as that may seem! Just as Jesus loved and prayed for the men who had beat and crucified him as he was hanging on the cross in agony.
This so-called "Christian" preacher is one of the wolves in sheep's clothing Jesus warned about. Beware of men like him; read the bible yourslef, especially what Christ himself said if you consider yourself a Christian.
And your attitude has, through the centuries, caused much evil in the world; the Crusades, for example, and the abuses by the Medevil Popes and Bishops that led to the reformation.
Free Martian Whores!
And there you have it, folks: it's all about the bottom line.
I wonder if Rackspace is this high and mighty about kicking pro terrorist and islamic jihad websites off their servers?
Can you find an example of Rackspace hosting a jihad or terrorist website?
If they state that the dove church group is violating its TOS or AUC, it is because of what they have done recently. If a group wanted to open a website to promote jihad or terrorism, it would likely have been rejected beforehand for violating the same.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.