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First Reviews of Civilization V
An anonymous reader submitted linkage to a story explaining why Hemos has been twitching for a week in anticipation: "Defying the urge to phone-in an unambitious sequel and coast on past successes, Sid Meier's Civilization V is anything but a lazy rehash. It feels almost as if someone described the concept of the renowned 19-year-old turn-based strategy series to a talented designer who'd never played it, and let him come up with his own version. It's similar enough to be familiar to veterans, different enough to be fresh, and its polish and accessibility make it a great place for new players to pick up one hell of a Civ addiction."
Just... another... one...
I was lost for Civilization II - Why the two 'I's? Confused me with World War II - "eye eye".....
RIP America
July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001
Been playing it all morning.
Be back later.
What is the wine status? I want to know whether to get it right away or wait for wine to gain proper support for it..
I didn't see anything in the review related to DRM. That's an essential subject for any game review these days.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
No offense, but are you surprised? People seem to forget how ludicrous Civ IV's specs were at release...
Living With a Nerd
Seriously? That's too much for you? I'm sorry that you haven't bought (or upgraded) a computer in 4 years, but I don't see why developers should have to cater to you by making their products worse for the rest of us. A system meeting these requirements wouldn't cost more than MAYBE $200 used.
They need better hardware to make the AI smarter, not just for better graphics.
-- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
But I did do the steam unlock on my laptop and copied over the music directory to play while I'm at work today. The 15 hours and 58 minutes of oggs (and, I think, one wav) I copied over have -- at least so far -- been top notch. Not that I've listened to anything near the 15 hours of them, only about 2-3, but still.
Nice background music too; mostly instrumental, not too quiet nor too loud.
Slashdot Patriotism: We Support our Dupes!
An explanation of how their DRM works:
The executables for the game are built to need to launch Steam (it can be cracked, of course). When you run the game, Steam must be running on the system. If it is not currently, it will be spawned. Steam will then need to log in with a user and password that has purchased that game. By default, it will log in online which gives access to things like achievements, online chat, multi-player and so on. Also any game the person has purchase is available. If it is not installed on the system, it can be downloaded. There is no restriction on the number of downloads, you can download to new systems or reinstall as often as you like.
However if an Internet connection is not available, or if requested by the user, it will log in offline mode. You will have access to any games that account has purchased that are currently installed on the system. Obviously you can't download any new ones if you aren't online.
As you might guess you do require an Internet connection the first time a game is installed. You either need to be online to download it, or if purchased retail, online to activate it and add it to your account.
However no matter what, Steam has to be running and has to be logged in with a legit account, be it online or offline.
Also because of the activation, the game may not be resold. It becomes tied to your Steam account. I suppose you could make an account just for that one game and then sell the account with the game, but as a practical matter Steamworks games cannot be transferred or resold.
So it is not the least invasive DRM, but it isn't horrible. It does come with some bonuses too, like the download capability. Buy a game retail, it is associated with your account. Losing the DVD is no problem, just redownload it. The Steam interface provides nice perks too. However it does mean no resale and you have to run Steam to play.
I consider it an acceptable DRM, but some do not.
Religion was horribly overpowered or over-abused in Civ4 - Most of my multiplayer game lobbies were a scramble to see who could get the civilizations with the Mystical starting research, so they could jump right into Buddhism and Hinduism. I mean, once the races were picked, then people would all research polytheism and meditation, then it was a cointoss on who got it first.
Eventually, as the games would progress on, whoever got the religions first would end up winning. It put you so far ahead of everyone else, there was no real way to catch up. The only way you got to Mega cities of 17 Population or more was mostly to do with keeping people happy, not so much about keeping them fed, and since Religion gave you an early burst in happiness, you had a more productive city than everyone else, so you generated more research, and were able to get a great person sooner (usually a priest! no doubt). Then they get to Monarchy sooner so they can just do that "military keeps people happy" civic and then they've got an a mega city that works because its so well defended. So then whoever gets the first priest ends up using the priest to get another religion. And Bam, before you know it, One person has founded 4 or 5 of the religions, and has an amazing economy because of it, has good culture to spread better than you can, and has the happiness available to use slavery to catch up on the infrastructure. If you attacked him early on you cripple yourself for everyone else to take you out, if you leave him be he wins automagically. You dare not attack him later because he's further in the tech tree than you (at least defensively) - so you ride it out. By late game, He still has 100% dedicated to research and is raking in over 100 gold per turn, and then when he feels like finishing it, he switches to universal suffrage, nationalism, and Theocracy, and pumps out an instant army and steams rolls each civilization 1 by 1.
I am glad they dropped religion, it ruined Civ4 multiplayer for me.
Yep, but you can only really play one of the two at a time.
I'm in much the same boat as that poster -- Starcraft 2's nice enough for what it is (although it still pales to SC1 in most respects for me) but Civ 5 will probably be getting my gaming time for a while.
May your +100% happiness not expire with the discovery of toddlerhood, or worse yet, teenagery.
-- Let us endeavor so to live that when we pass even the undertaker shall be sorry. -- M. Twain
The only thing on there that is even remotely "heavy hitting" is requiring a discrete graphics card. However if you are a computer gamer, well then you should be well aware that games need a discrete graphics card, and they aren't expensive (A 5750 runs it great and costs $110-130 or so and is current technology).
A dual core with 2GB I consider to be the minimum sort of system you should have these days for desktop usage. It is not expensive, and well worth it. A dual core CPU really makes things much smoother and more responsive, even if you are just doing basic office productivity stuff. The ability for the processor to actually do two things at once is a big gain in terms of responsiveness. RAM is also big performance wise, and really cheap. I recommend 4GB, even for desktop usage, but 2GB minimum. Less than that and you are swapping when you don't need to.
Those are NOT onerous system requirements, particularly for a game. They aren't demanding the highest end system. Hell even their recommend requirements are tame: 1.8GHz quad, 4GB of ram and a 4800/9800 series GPU.
Personally, I'd say if you can't afford a dual core system and a mid range graphics card from a few generations ago, you probably can't afford a new $50 game either. In that case, stick with Civ 4 or Civ 3 (or 2 or 1). They haven't stopped working. You can still play them. Hell if I end up not liking Civ 5's gameplay and can't mod it to my likes, I'll go back to Civ 4 since I do like it.
I do not find it very legit to whine about not having the rather reasonable system requirements, while still saying that $50 is a fine price to spend. Save that $50 for a better computer, something that will do better for EVERYTHING you do, rather than spending it on a new game.
You are in grad school and have three kids. When were you planning on playing video games?
I'm living the best days of my life, currently. No strategy game comes close to the wonder of holding your own baby in your arms.
When my last child was still an infant, sometimes I would sit with her in my arms... while I played Civ IV. Beat that.
William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
I don't want three blind men describing an elephant incorrectly. I want Civ.
"Enough of this wretched, whining monkey life." -- Marcus Aurelius, _Meditations_, Book 9, 37
Like it or no, most games sales still happen in the retail market. Don't believe the online surveys, they suffer heavily from selection bias and are not properly conducted. Go ask a developer/publisher (Stardock has talked about this, as they do both). Retail still outsells online by a large margin. That means you have to keep retailers happy and part of that means not selling online before they can sell it retail.
As to why it is taking longer to get to retail there, that's the real question. Did they fuck up the shipping? Were the EU retailers pushing for a later date? Was there some EU reg they and to deal with?
That's the reason though. They don't want to sell it online early and anger the retailers. Retailers have limited shelf space and if you piss them off, they might not give it to you.
Can someone comment on the support for red/green color blindness? I often had problems being able to read certain map features and recognizing some units in Civ III and Civ IV because of it.
Love sees no species.
There's a reason grad school takes 5 years to finish.
Actually it's the graphic card requirements that break it for me. They're above 99% of laptops, and certainly above mine which does have a separate graphic card with dedicated memory but it's an ATI 3200, way below their specs. Plays many games well, but I won't even try to get anywhere near civ5 knowing what their minimum specs are - or else it'd be wasted money. Also, my laptop is my only computer right now.
I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet -Stanislaw Lem
We still don't have Alpha Centauri 2
:(
That's all I ever want.
Nothing else.
Just that.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
For single player, wait for an expansion to fix the AI. The review in PCGamer said the AI does really stupid things with its combat units, like send them headlong into battle without regard to unit type, so its ranged units go right up to your melee units, and its melee units get trapped behind its own ranged units. The game balance is preserved simply by giving computer players more units. Given that this is the most tactical Civ yet (due to elimination of unit stacking), it's clear from the review it suffers even more from AI limitations than Civ IV did (before the Civ IV expansions).
I think you think Starcraft II is more complicated than it really is. Think about it, honestly...what is there to keep track of behind the scenes, second by second? Hit points, unit locations, resources, and build queues. That's about it. Now look at a Civ game, and all of the things that simultaneously happen each time one turn ends and another begins.
You honestly think there is less to compute in a Civ game than in Starcraft II, just because Civ is turn based?
Living With a Nerd
One person on CIV Fanatics reported they got the game early but were unable to install it till the appointed time. Steam blocked them.
To me this is unacceptable. They had the boxed game. We have a DRM system which states that that is not enough to play a game. They reserve the right with thirty days notification to change/void the agreement.
In other words, they can prevent you from using the product you purchased. No longer is the $50 for having a game you can play when and where you want to, it only applies when and where they permit you.
Steam is invasive and essentially arbitrary.
I did find it humorous how many derided the retailer at being at fault for selling the game. With users like this what hope is there for the old model.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
The only way you got to Mega cities was mostly to do with keeping people happy, not so much about keeping them fed, and since Religion gave you an early burst in happiness, you had a more productive city than everyone else, so you generated more research, and were able to get a great person sooner (usually a priest! no doubt). Then they get to Monarchy sooner so they can just do that "military keeps people happy" civic and then they've got an a mega city that works because its so well defended. So then whoever gets the first priest ends up using the priest to get another religion. And Bam, before you know it, One person has founded 4 or 5 of the religions, and has an amazing economy because of it, has good culture to spread better than you can, and has the happiness available to use slavery to catch up on the infrastructure
Historically, that strategy worked pretty out well for the Egyptian, Greek, Roman, Chinese, and many others.
You forgot real-time path finding with a horde of units interfering with each other.
Now look at a Civ game, and all of the things that simultaneously happen each time one turn ends and another begins.
What simultaneously happens? The unit orders are sequenced.
You honestly think there is less to compute in a Civ game than in Starcraft II, just because Civ is turn based?
Well, um, YES. There's a difference between localized, separate battles at the end of every turn versus battles that update dozens of times a second all over the map. That you have thought about this and tried to equate the two is mind boggling.
My favorite path: Play as Romans. Research Bronze working, switch to slavery, then Mysticism. Chop/whip for Stonehenge. Bee-line to priesthood, chop/whip for Oracle (preferably in the same city as Stonehenge). When you get the Oracle, you should be able to get Monarchy. Switch to Hereditary Rule, then pick up all the technologies you need for Theology, but don't research Theology. Once you have all those techs, get Iron Working. By the time you've finished researching Iron Working, you should have enough great person points in the city with Stonehenge & the Oracle to get a Great Prophet. Use him to discover Theology. Convert to Christianity & adopt theology. Now you'll be able to produce Praetorians with City Raider 2 promos off the bat if you've built baracks. That gives them an unequalled 12 attack power. This will give you an advantage for a very long time versus anything you'll come up against, even archers in walled cities on hilltops.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
I was itching to buy it, but then found out that the Mac version will be ready "eventually", not a simultaneous release. Bugger. Back to Civ IV for me.
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
Ten years from now, when Steam no longer works or supports your game, you'll find out that you were just renting it.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
What simultaneously happens? The unit orders are sequenced.
Economic calculations. Research calculations. Diplomatic calculations. Borders expanding/contracting. Etc, etc, etc. These things don't just happen on their own...every little nuance, every single little piece of data you see in a Civilization game (which, lets face it, can be overwhelming at times) has to be calculated.
Well, um, YES. There's a difference between localized, separate battles at the end of every turn versus battles that update dozens of times a second all over the map.
A map that, by comparison to an endgame Civilization map, is pretty small. You are also still continuing to focus on just fighting. You do know there's far more to Civilization games than just fighting...right?
That you have thought about this and tried to equate the two is mind boggling.
I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, I'm not saying you're right or wrong... I'm just saying that there's more going on behind the scenes in a Civilization game than you realize.
Living With a Nerd
Wait........people finish grad school?? I know getting my bachelor's was the best 7 years of my life.....
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
But let me play, even if it takes 5 minutes between turns instead of 1.
The only thing that can't be slowed down is the graphics.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
There's psychological value in owning a game that's worth a lot more than $1.30. I'm simply going to be happier playing my game, as opposed to one that's been lent to me, even for free.
Public libraries work for a lot of people. They have no problem getting a book, reading it, and never touching it again. Other people buy books and hang on to them, spending thousands of dollars amassing a private library that they can refer to whenever they need. Steam may be a good option for the first group, but it will never fly with the second.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
I can go down to the library and borrow a book for 0 dollars. By your logic this must be the utmost value proposition in entertainment. 0 dollars per hour, you can't get any better than that. Yet people continue to spend money on books they can keep forever. Why is that? Figure that out and you'll understand why Steam isn't acceptable to many of us.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Not really. Or rather, not really like in Civ 4. In Civ 4 you can basically have a monopoly on religion, so to speak. Historically that didn't work anywhere near that good.
E.g., sure, you can superficially say that the Egyptians did the same, but really they didn't. Each city has its own deity before Narmer even came along, and really mostly stuck with it. Even afterwards, there were several competing systems even inside the country, with the Ennead being severely at odds with the Ogdoad and both being at odds with Akhenaten's monotheism or with the Hyskos cult of Set.
And then Egyptians having polytheism didn't stop the Greeks from having their own different version, nor the Akkadian zone from having its own, nor the Mayans or Azteks across the ocean from having their own, and so on.
Even stuff like "Hinduism" or "Monotheism" that's in the game, really weren't anywhere near a monopoly.
E.g., Hinduism... which Hinduism? It's a blanket label applied to a multitude of religions in India ranging from polytheistic to monotheistic to technically atheistic. It's about as accurate as saying that everything from England to Persia is Abrahamic.
Monotheism? Which Monotheism? Judaism didn't prevent Zoroastrianism from existing in parallel (and while some versions were strictly dualist, some were really monotheistic), nor the monolatry of Marduk in Mesopotamia taken to near-monotheistic extremes, nor most of the Phoenician city-states from really having each their own monotheistic cult of Ba'al. Was it the same religion? Nope. Check out the whole Jezebel episode in the Old Testament for an example one monotheistic religion kicking out another.
Heck, even Judaism had splintered relatively early. Ever hear of the Good Samaritan? There's a reason a Samaritan is chosen there. Because Samaria had its own version of One True Judaism and were bitter religious enemies with Jerusalem over that. That parable chooses for "even he counts as your neighbour" an example as extreme as that. So there you have it. Two countries with their own version of it.
Even when technically there was one religion, having a grip on it world-wide proved to be a nigh impossible task. Christianity was splintered majorly for a few centuries, with competing schools including Arianism, Pelagianism, etc. Even just the major interpretations of Christianity were a battle royale between monophysitism (Jesus had only one nature, which in turn split into those who made him 100% human and those who made him 100% god), dyophysitism (natch, he had both natures), and miaphysitism (dude, he had two, but _inseparable_.) And if you think the last two are just splitting hairs, they had schisms and purges over that. In fact so severe was the purge done by the Byzantines in Armenia over such a hair-splitting issue that it basically removed any Armenian support or know-how in dealing with the Turks and, in a too long story for this message, it paved the road for Manzikert and the start of the fall of Byzantium.
And then political or nationalistic interests caused further splits. E.g., the Husites ravaged Germany in the name of their own interpretation of the bible, but that in turn was more fuelled by anti-German sentiment than by actually what was in the bible. E.g., earlier, the fight for religious hegemony between Rome and Byzantium ended up with something as ridiculous as the Pope and Byzantine Emperor excommunicating each other over whether the communion hosts (the Jesus-flavoured chips;) should be leavened or unleavened bread.
Really, nobody could have a monopoly on a religion like in Civ 4, much less a monopoly on a _type_ of religion. Inventing Monotheism didn't prevent someone else from inventing their own, much less keep it from splintering.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
What?
Did you forget your meds this morning.
$100 is the price for a 9800 equivalent in a desktop (sorry, I made the mistake of assuming you were smart enough to figure that out on your own).
If you have trouble meeting the Civ V minimum specifications, you will have trouble affording the game.
Here you go and these are Australian prices, which due to the Indian-Pacific Price Dilation Field are significantly higher then US prices despite the AUD fetching 0.95 USD today. Look between option two and three, same proc, different GPU, A$115 in it. Also that's a geforce 310, a bit more advanced then an old 9800.
Now sod off and take your trolling meds.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.