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NSA Chief Wants Internet Partitioned For Government, 'Critical' Industries

GovTechGuy writes "NSA chief Keith Alexander, also the head of the US Cyber Command, told reporters that he would like to see the creation of a secure zone on the Internet for government and critical private sector industries such as utility companies and the financial sector. Alexander has repeatedly emphasized the dramatic nature of the cyber threat facing American networks and his comments were a further sign that the Pentagon does not think the war against foreign hackers can be won. Alexander denied the military has any role in safeguarding civilian networks currently, but didn't rule out the option in the future."

258 comments

  1. Capitalized, with definite article by symbolset · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Somebody's confused about the difference between "an internet" and "The Internet".

    --
    Help stamp out iliturcy.
    1. Re:Capitalized, with definite article by tgatliff · · Score: 2, Insightful

      He apparently seems to have a misunderstanding on what a VPN is as well...

      Also, the problem is not "the internet". The problem is people in general. If you only allow a system to be modified by a physical person in front of a unix/linux/vxworks (or similar) terminal with no network connection, then it makes "hacking" something like pretty much impossible unless a person is physically present.

    2. Re:Capitalized, with definite article by blair1q · · Score: 1

      You mean "a network based on protocols developed for The Internet" and "The Internet".

    3. Re:Capitalized, with definite article by mjwx · · Score: 1
      Somebody's confused about the difference between "an internet" and "The Internet".

      So this guy wants a Wide Area Intranet?

      WTF, we already have this. A private business I can pay an ISP to connect my offices in a manner that they never touch the internet. Traffic between my offices would never leave the ISP's routing network.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    4. Re:Capitalized, with definite article by CarpetShark · · Score: 1

      I think he's confused about "The Internet" and a "WAN".

    5. Re:Capitalized, with definite article by Ofloo · · Score: 1

      they should of said intranet instead of internet then just use vpn to connect them between various locations. They make it seem like they invented something new !

    6. Re:Capitalized, with definite article by Ofloo · · Score: 1

      I would be amazed if they would put such services or companies on public internet who in their right mind would do such a thing. of course they need an intranet, I'm stumped they only realize this now !?

    7. Re:Capitalized, with definite article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, sounds like a great idea. Partition the Internet. Then, of course, it is by definition no longer the Internet. I wonder whether Keith Alexander knows Latin? Anyway, apart from the lack of grasp of semantics that this guy illustrates, what's the point of making a secure network separate from the Internet when every second computer on this network will also be on the Internet as we know it, because some government employee wants to watch prOn? Perhaps Keith Alexander should first start to do his job and secure military networks, such as, for example, preventing one guy from leaking 250000 confidential documents? If the NSA cannot secure supposedly well-protected military networks, how do they think they can secure a much larger, less classified network for government and private organizations? Not that I would care but is this guy nuts? Let history judge (the `gay bomb', the Bay of Pigs, communists putting chemicals into our drinking water that make us weak)

  2. Isn't that just a network? by XanC · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is what a bunch of us have been saying for a while: there's no reason for those really critical things to be on the Internet. Now they're proposing that they won't be, but are calling it a "partition". (??)

    1. Re:Isn't that just a network? by airfoobar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Their goal is probably to get an excuse to somehow restructure the internet.. Who knows what "partitioning" may entail?

    2. Re:Isn't that just a network? by Kepesk · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I'm not sure why this concept has been so hard for them. If they really need critical information to be distributable on a system like the internet, all they would really need to do is set up a separate, independent internet using existing technology for their own secure purposes. I'm sure that with their vast resources, they could do it.

      Am I right?

    3. Re:Isn't that just a network? by causality · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Their goal is probably to get an excuse to somehow restructure the internet.. Who knows what "partitioning" may entail?

      This could be a great "excuse" for us, too. We should make him a deal. Partition off the governmental and "critical industry". Now the public Internet has no more high-profile targets. Then, drop all the warrantless wiretapping, eavesdropping, and other monitoring from the public Internet and use it to lock down the governmental and critical parts. All of the resources and manpower focused on a much smaller target should do wonders towards securing us against the currently trendy bogeyman of "cyberattack".

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    4. Re:Isn't that just a network? by bartle · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This idea of a nationwide secure network has never made much sense to me. Creating a secure network in a small organization is pretty easy but creating one that links many public and private enterprises sounds like a disaster. Gaps will inevitably appear but worse it creates a real target for someone who wishes to create harm.

    5. Re:Isn't that just a network? by mjwalshe · · Score: 1

      yes this is just an internet for a restricted group if you want security build your own network and stick an air gap between you and the internet - this isnt exactly rocket science

    6. Re:Isn't that just a network? by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      There are lots of little Internets around, actually private networks that emulate Internet infrastructure; the telcos offer them as extensions of their old private messes. Methinks the NSA just needs more money to complete their own wiring. And of course, that'll cure everything until we get our little backdoor router into the thing.

      The Internet II was supposed to be an experiment to look at a nice OC192 highway to link universities in the old DARPA model... and it's wired (actually fibered) now.

      I can just see the US National Debt sign in starting to spin ever faster.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    7. Re:Isn't that just a network? by AnonymousClown · · Score: 1

      But that doesn't negate the "tracking terrorist communications" excuse.

      --
      RIP America

      July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001

    8. Re:Isn't that just a network? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      And for all of you who seriously believe that, I have a wonderful investment opportunity in a bridge to sell you... In fact it's the same bridge, and it doesn't even exist and I'm actually just going to scam you for money but I assume your mind blanked after the first sentence and you're off to your bank to see how much you can mortgage your home (causing a second financial crisis) right now, but you'll probably start reading again at the end so: Limited time only, 300% guaranteed return! Sign up at i.r@gullible.biz.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    9. Re:Isn't that just a network? by htdrifter · · Score: 1

      There is no excuse for critical anything to be on the Internet. This is what happens when people are put in charge of something they don't understand.

      Inventing an answer for an imaginary problem is not big thing. Implementing it is a different story.

      The next big step is to design encryption technology to make Etch-a-Sketch secure.

    10. Re:Isn't that just a network? by royallthefourth · · Score: 1

      Yes, let's tell him he can have his special internet on our terms or else we'll...uhhh...

    11. Re:Isn't that just a network? by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The people doesn't need an 'excuse' to make a deal with the government. We don't need to make deals with the government. In a government of the people, by the people, and for the people, when we want something done, we tell the government to do it.

      Now all we need to do is convince the vast majority of the country to oppose warrantless wiretapping, etc. Most people are ok with that kind of thing, you know, because it catches criminals or terrorists or something. In other words, he doesn't need to make a deal with you, and he won't, because he has the people on his side. See also, "how Bush got congress to agree to invade Iraq by convincing the vast majority (for a brief moment) that it would help with terrorists or something."

      --
      Qxe4
    12. Re:Isn't that just a network? by Jaime2 · · Score: 1

      I think they're even more confused than that. It's pretty basic common sense that these critical services shouldn't be on the Internet. But, they are. Somebody must have weighed the security risks and benefits of connecting to the Internet and made a conscious desicion to connect to it. There is no way that this new "partition" could offer what they sought when they connected to the Internet. So, all this would do is reset the environment back to the time when they weren't connected. The same results could be acheived by simply disconnecting.

      This will leave them with the issue of connecting to specific points, but there are already solutions do get this done. Heck, common solutions like MPLS fill the gap just fine.

    13. Re:Isn't that just a network? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is called a private VPN. *MANY* companies do it. You can even hire companies to set it up for you.

      They take a bit of work to setup. But once you do you can use both at the same time. And yes it does work. You need to decide what traffic you let in and out. Then *ONLY* that. Then only encrypted. Then only those nodes you have whitelisted in. Then only when you allow it. Its called Radius (small part of it but it works very well).

      What happens many times is people end up bridging across from the real internet into the intranet. *THEN* you have a problem...

    14. Re:Isn't that just a network? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't we just use the new whitespace tech and create a private mash up? Google could provide connections points at every major city and we could just use a mesh net between houses and devices and skip the stand ISP's. Then the ISPs, the RIAA and the gubment could duke it out in a massive internet cage match before finally handing over all of our secrets to China. The rest of us will just have free internet and Google apps.

      It's not that far fetched...

    15. Re:Isn't that just a network? by stuckinphp · · Score: 0

      They already have many.. they aren't retards much unlike our government overlords.

      --
      if only
    16. Re:Isn't that just a network? by sokoban · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Their goal is probably to get an excuse to somehow restructure the internet..

      Actually, it's an excuse to get the funding to somehow restructure the internet.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 is the magic number.
    17. Re:Isn't that just a network? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The people doesn't need an 'excuse' to make a deal with the government. We don't need to make deals with the government. In a government of the people, by the people, and for the people, when we want something done, we tell the government to do it.

      How quaint. Where do you get these antiquated notions of yours and do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?

    18. Re:Isn't that just a network? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The partitioning is so that when Obama hits the Internet Kill Switch, the power will stay on.

    19. Re:Isn't that just a network? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no reason for those really critical things to be on the Internet"

      Except for the critical things they use to monitor civilian internet traffic.

    20. Re:Isn't that just a network? by zmollusc · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, the person who weighed the security risks and benefits of connecting to the internet probably didn't understand security or the internet. In the modern world, anyone who has the authority to make decisions (spend money) doesn't have technical knowledge, anyone with technical knowledge will not get into management. Yeah, there are exceptions, like when technical people start their own business.

      --
      They whose government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty nor security.
    21. Re:Isn't that just a network? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately there is a bogeyman that never will go out of fashion. Pedobear.

    22. Re:Isn't that just a network? by h00manist · · Score: 1

      This could be a great "excuse" for us, too. We should make him a deal. Partition off the governmental and "critical industry".

      There should be a safe partition for kids. And one for universities. And another for US critical businesses, subpartitioned by sector. Another group of subpartitions for arts, media, games and entertainment. Another for the Middle East, Arabs, Muslims and terrorists in general. Another for China. Wait, they already did that. So if you want to connect to three sites, you can only connect to one at a time, and will need three vpn connections. That would be secure.

      If you keep on making everyone more secure, eventually you'll have a totalitarian state. The alternative is to have some security-privacy and secrecy compromise full of abuses and lies, our present situation, or to start and promote actual progress in world human society, not just technology. There is war, peace, and pax romana, nothing else. Accepting current reality is wise, but pointing out towards another reality is even more.

      --
      Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
    23. Re:Isn't that just a network? by h00manist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The people doesn't need an 'excuse' to make a deal with the government. We don't need to make deals with the government. In a government of the people, by the people, and for the people, when we want something done, we tell the government to do it. Now all we need to do is convince the vast majority of the country to oppose warrantless wiretapping, etc.

      To start organizing people, finding 10 people who agree on anything besides drinking beer and partying would be a phenomenal start.

      --
      Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
    24. Re:Isn't that just a network? by prikkebeen · · Score: 1

      Well, I think we can agree that a lot of people hate the **AA's and friends.

  3. It just takes one... by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One little gateway to the great, unwashed Internet, and the whole walled garden is compromised.

    In fact, thinking they are safe in a walled garden is likely to lower their level of caution.

    And it doesn't require an active network link spanning the networks. Virus and other nasties can be entered via CD's, USB sticks (I'm looking at you, U.S. Navy), or malicious persons on the inside.

    If this guy is serious, what he probably wants is the ability to partition the Internet such that walled gardens can be set up, torn down, and have their membership adjusted very quickly.

    On, and to hope that the ability to mess with that never gets into the wrong hands.

    1. Re:It just takes one... by Statecraftsman · · Score: 2

      He might want to mess with the network and its topology because he's a network guy. Right now the biggest threats come from exploitable bugs in software so rather than attempt to create a new Internet, this guy should be funding massive security code review of both free and non-free software.

    2. Re:It just takes one... by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 1

      He might want to mess with the network and its topology because he's a network guy. Right now the biggest threats come from exploitable bugs in software so rather than attempt to create a new Internet, this guy should be funding massive security code review of both free and non-free software.

      Fair point. But I'm not sure which approach would be cheaper and/or more effective.

    3. Re:It just takes one... by Znork · · Score: 3, Informative

      Partitioning is a pipe dream; any network with a significant number of users will have uncontrolled exchanges with the internet.

      The only way to have reasonable security is to keep certain subsystems separate and accessible only via specific gateways; no user is ever logically placed on those segments, and they are only ever accessed over very few very specific interfaces.

    4. Re:It just takes one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Walled Garden.....

      Make it secure, with stiff penalties for breach including those with higher structured positions than those of the responsible party, highly auditable under FOIA, and labor force is restricted to non-contract, non-outsourcing, and non-military (except for penetration testing purposes).

      Call it the 'Peoples Network' for Securing America and Infrastructure.

      Why yes. I am a slightly Communist. Why do you ask?

      /tongue slightly in cheek

    5. Re:It just takes one... by suomynonAyletamitlU · · Score: 1

      One little gateway to the great, unwashed Internet, and the whole walled garden is compromised.

      It's okay, they can just create their own, malware-free porn sites on the government network and nobody'll ever be tempted.

    6. Re:It just takes one... by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      You mean, unless theres actually real security there? I would hope the NSA could afford better equipment than dumb switches and a single router.

      There are, for example, pieces of network equipment that will detect outbound traffic on the network and forcibly route it through itself (the equipment I saw doing this was a Nomadix gateway). Tie that with a managed layer-3 switch (configured to prevent DHCP from coming from untrusted ports), plus a little configuration to raise a red flag when a node's mac changes, and you have a configuration where the most someone can do is provide himself an isolated connection to the internet.

      Of course, one could have a wireless router hooked to the internet, hook into that and then bridge into the private network, but noone else would be able to access that gateway, and if you have proper firewall rules in place noone should be able to do any serious harm regardless. Sure, an outside party could spoof IPs, but I dont see how you would get any kind of meaningful TCP connection thru the bridge if you did so.

      Saying that "one little gateway....and the whole walled garden is compromised" is just ignorant. I mitigate that scenario with a second $30 Rosewill router walling off part of the network. LOOK! now the breach is contained to a single segment. Why are armchair admins being modded "insightful", again?

    7. Re:It just takes one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One little gateway to the great, unwashed Internet, and the whole walled garden is compromised.

      One little gateway to any private network compromises it? O rly?

      Most private networks I know of take advantage of the fact they can dictate what goes on it, and which protocols can pass it.

      Obviously we have reasons for building all the private networks we currently have today, and the possibility of a little gateway popping up doesn;t stop them from working.

    8. Re:It just takes one... by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      Forcing outbound or inbound traffic through a particular gateway? It can be done in software on Linux or any of the BSDs. Look up "iptables".

    9. Re:It just takes one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly.
      Have enough members, and one of them will go bad, even if it were an accident or negligence.

      Bad person buys up Hayseedville Power, and GhostTownBank and they are IN.
      It could be Lehman Bros or Enron, and if they were desperate - no they would not doing anything bad in their final hours.

      Then there was the big blackout on a SECURE network, that cascaded disaster, not deliberate, but human error and cost cutting.

  4. I suppose by KarrdeSW · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I suppose it would be possible to build a whole second infrastructure across the country for Government agencies and 'critical industries', one that would never necessarily cross lines with any part of the 'insecure' internet. However, I would think the fact that you would need a nationwide infrastructure is what would make it just as insecure as the real thing, as there would be innumerable points for a malicious person to connect in. Also, unless you plan on creating a whole new 'secure' operating system to connect to every computer on this new network, you're still going to be vulnerable if anyone brings in a flash drive or a DVD with a virus.

    Oh, and you could NEVER allow wireless connections to this network... that would just be too damn easy.

    1. Re:I suppose by countSudoku() · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They are compromised from the inside before they even string up one RJ-45 cable. Just tell Gen. Nuisance that "We'll just not dial into the bad guy's BBS, Sir." and call it a day. These are the great "cyber warriors" from the USA; unable to comprehend and put up a VPN for this shit. Dumb, and dumber.

      --
      This is the NSA, we're gonna geet U h@x0r5! Also, what is a h@x0r5?
    2. Re:I suppose by PCM2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I suppose it would be possible to build a whole second infrastructure across the country for Government agencies and 'critical industries', one that would never necessarily cross lines with any part of the 'insecure' internet.

      Yeah, but why would the NSA want that? This is the NSA we're talking about, not the Department of Defense. What they probably want is to reconfigure the Internet so that there are lots of "walls" all over the place, like a maze. Most of the walls will have doors on them, so your traffic will be able to pass through without noticing a thing. The NSA is selling this as if the idea is to make some special walls that don't have doors on them, so those parts of the network will be more secure -- but I'm betting the real idea is the NSA gets to sit on top of all those walls and look down.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    3. Re:I suppose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But there already are at least 3 such for use by military, this is not news.

    4. Re:I suppose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The NSA is part of the Dept. of Defense...

    5. Re:I suppose by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      A VPN is not as secure as a separate point-to-point line.

    6. Re:I suppose by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      unless you plan on creating a whole new 'secure' operating system

      I'm sure Microsoft it already on it.

    7. Re:I suppose by wiredog · · Score: 1

      Not only is it possible, it's already been done.

  5. Cyber Command by HiggsBison · · Score: 1

    Cyber Command sounds WAY too much like some sort of comic book superhero hangout.

    --
    My other car is a 1984 Nark Avenger.
  6. Fine! Let it be so! by erroneus · · Score: 1

    Let there be an internet for government and sensitive business entities. I'm all for it. This would give less cause for government to screw around with surveillance and monitoring on the global internet I should think. (Yeah, I know they will still want that) It would also allow better protection of data without unplugging entirely.

    I don't think it should be "partitioned" so much as having a new one built in parallel... and while they are at it, make it all IPV6. We all need a way to transition and a big fat project like this would be a great way... and while we're at it, maybe we can get the U.S. on the metric system.

  7. makes sense to me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This makes perfect sense to me. In fact, I don't understand why the military/government didn't make their own separate network in the first place. Seems like it would've made everything a whole lot easier.

  8. Someone didn't get the memo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    NIPR? SIPR? You want a third network that you don't manage properly or put realistic security policies on?

    Fucking bureaucrat.

    1. Re:Someone didn't get the memo by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Informative

      The DoD owns those... NIPR is mostly bureaucratic military stuff, while SIPR is the secure one. Good luck with the Pentagon letting folks like HHS, DOI, DOE, congress-critters, or (heh) your local utility co-op getting latched onto to those.

      Speaking of "realistic security policies", just to even think of hooking into NIPR, you have to harden your boxes to the these specs (ever had to put all of /usr onto its own partition and lock the whole thing read-only? I guess it all depends on your definition of "realistic"). SIPR's requirements are only 'slightly' more anal.

      /P

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    2. Re:Someone didn't get the memo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahem, those are the official unrealistic policies. If you're downlink far enough from the core, you may not have the bandwidth to validate those. You must be in a nice chair in the lower 48 with a high speed link to be able to complete the network audit.

    3. Re:Someone didn't get the memo by dwye · · Score: 4, Informative

      > ever had to put all of /usr onto its own partition and lock the whole thing read-only?

      No, because SunOS5 had this on installation, back about 1990. With symbolic links and such, it was really quite simple. You remounted /usr as RW only when you had to remake the kernel, and then rebooted after (once a month or less often). In fact, our /usr was on a separate disk that had a hardware RO/RW switch on it.

      This stuff was worked out long ago. Then, it was ignored because someone decided to build from scratch with no more (prior) thoughts of security than a HAL-9000 had.

    4. Re:Someone didn't get the memo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With respect, I know DOE at least has its own secure, separate network. Several of them, most likely. And they have good reasons. There is really no reason at all to merge theirs with DOD's.

    5. Re:Someone didn't get the memo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny, I drilled down into the link you provided, looking for the IE8 specs (just out of curiosity).
       
      That took me to a .mil URL that contained, wait for it..., a certificate exception!

    6. Re:Someone didn't get the memo by jmauro · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's not an error or misconfiguration, you don't have the .mil CA in your trusted CAs. The DOD runs it's own CA because they're pushing PKI for everything and don't want to have to pay another CA for each and every cert issues.

  9. Get in line... by Statecraftsman · · Score: 1

    "What's up MPAA? Hey, RIAA are you in line too or just waiting for your order?"

    1. Re:Get in line... by mjwalshe · · Score: 1

      sorry did the MPAA and RIAA just get ListX status :-))))))))))

  10. Default Gateway by p0p0 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Just tell all the companies worried about cyber attack to set their gateway as 127.0.0.1 and they'll be perfectly safe.

    1. Re:Default Gateway by Penguinisto · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hey! That's MY IP address! No wonder I can't connect anywhere - damned IP addy conflict!

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
  11. Uhh by ShooterNeo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is this guy legitimate? How the hell did someone so ignorant of networking become head of US cyber command? NOTHING stops someone from grabbing off the shelf hardware and creating a WAN that has no hardware connections with the global internet. Or, there's various virtual ways to do this that are almost as good. Companies and institutions have been doing this for decades. Hackers can only get in if the institution is dumb enough to put the mission critical hardware on a network that IS connected to the internet, or even dumber, run the mission critical control system on a windows machine. Of course, corporations do this all the time...

    1. Re:Uhh by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The public statement is just a political maneuver, to help with the real goal: killing the open Internet. The free and open Internet is a nightmare for them, because it allows all sorts of people to communicate and do things without being monitored. It is bad for business (which is what the US Government is really interested in protecting) and bad for the politicians who bankroll the NSA.

      First they'll set up a new network for "critical infrastructure," which you can only connect "certified" devices to, and then you'll start to see things...like suddenly your bank will require you to use that new, secure, not-open network. Then new and popular music will only be made available on that network. Then videos, games, books, and so forth, until eventually the Internet falls by the wayside, as forgotten as Fidonet, even if it even remains in existence. You will only be allowed to connect certain computers to that network, running certain software, and of course, you will not have any sort of root access to your system.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    2. Re:Uhh by mangu · · Score: 1

      new and popular music will only be made available on that network

      LOL. Good luck with that, even if you "secure" all your networks

    3. Re:Uhh by Strange+Ranger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Keith knows about WANs and VLANs and VPNs. My guess is this is just Keith's way of campaigning for a 200 million dollar budget so he can go on a serious shopping spree.

      Also, having direct control and access to all the information that will be on it. "Come on in banks and military suppliers, Telecoms, and Energy companies, etc., sure there's room for you on the Homeland Network!!"

      My tin foil hat doesn't warp my brain. "Killing the open internet" isn't the goal of this public statement or this proposal. Growing his budget and expanding the scope of Homeland Security, certainly.

      Do we still teach the dangers of Fascism in school these days? My tinfoil hat does compel me to include this Wikipedia quote "Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy."

      Think how much easier it could be to share information without getting caught.

      --

      Operator, give me the number for 911!
    4. Re:Uhh by mangu · · Score: 3, Informative

      You beat me to it, that's exactly what I was going to write.

      Saying something as stupid as this "secure zone" proposal should be enough to get banned from ever working in a high responsibility government job again. "Secure zones" already exist, if they aren't being used correctly by the government is because people like Keith Alexander aren't doing their job.

    5. Re:Uhh by equex · · Score: 1

      You're absolutely right. Their best wrench will be the online banks which almost everyone uses now, even me. And I don't do anything else online like shopping, ordering tickets etc. I simply don't trust anyone with my credentials. The only reason I use online banking is because it saves me a lot of money in actually traveling to the bank in the first place, and then also bills paid online are not charged additional processing fees.

      --
      Can I light a sig ?
    6. Re:Uhh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is this guy legitimate? How the hell did someone so ignorant of networking become head of US cyber command? NOTHING stops someone from grabbing off the shelf hardware and creating a WAN that has no hardware connections with the global internet. Or, there's various virtual ways to do this that are almost as good. Companies and institutions have been doing this for decades. Hackers can only get in if the institution is dumb enough to put the mission critical hardware on a network that IS connected to the internet, or even dumber, run the mission critical control system on a windows machine. Of course, corporations do this all the time...

      Yah, it's almost like they'd have to make up new policies that define what this new network is and who maintains it, and what the requirements are for connecting to it, routing its traffic, how the policies are enforced, etc.

      But but, that would take something like the government's involvement to implement such a plan! Some kind of government information technology networking command.. something or other. Do we have one of those? Who would run such a thing?

    7. Re:Uhh by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1, Interesting

      So you're saying this guy is a sociopath with a dream of world domination?

      Seems like quite a leap to accuse him of that based on "Maybe we should setup a second parallel network which we completely control for mission critical information."

      I love that half of the comments to this story read:
      "OMG DON'T USE THE INTERNET FOR MISSION CRITICAL FUNCTIONS IDIOTS!"
      and the other half respond
      "OMG IT'S ALL A PLOY TO STEAL OUR INTERNETZ!"

    8. Re:Uhh by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      guy legitimate? How the hell did someone so ignorant of networking become head of US cyber command

      Golf, scotch, and blowjobs.

      We the people have far more to fear from these dipshits than some horde of "cyber-warriors", if they even exist, do, as this demonstrates.

    9. Re:Uhh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is that a bad idea? I like the idea of separating "entertainment" and "social networks" from the "real business" like banking, online shopping, etc.

      It is not practical because you would have to separate all means of data exchange, e.g. file systems, all memory including caches, but still, it would be nice...

    10. Re:Uhh by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Yes a WAN, but a WAN under his control (his budget). After all, what's the point of the NSA if it's not the single point of failure of anything? Just imagine, what would happen if the NSA went on strike tomorrow? That's right, probably nothing. Or perhaps, the internet may even become a little faster that day.

      Even China and Iran are not scared of the NSA. They're scared of Wikileaks, they're scared of YouTube, and yes they're deathly afraid of Twitter, but the NSA, no. As far as China and Iran are concerned, the internet dancing chipmunks are far more suspicious and scary than the NSA, or perhaps they're thinking that Twitter is the NSA (which frankly, I would find hard to believe), but in either case, I do not think the NSA can take the credit for either of those two things.

    11. Re:Uhh by kangsterizer · · Score: 1

      that's a pretty good sum up and quote

    12. Re:Uhh by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      The point is that the majority of people will be using the new network, and eventually the Internet will become forgotten or even fractured and unusable. Look at how ISPs have stopped carrying Usenet -- and that is on the Internet -- and how few Fidonet nodes are left (how many are even in your area?), or how BITNet is gone. The secure network may only allow "certified" protocols to be used, no BitTorrent or P2P.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    13. Re:Uhh by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      No, I think that the US government does what is best for businesses, and the free and open Internet is not best for business anymore -- too many people are using it to communicate in ways that don't put money in the pockets of corporate directors and shareholders.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
  12. Right... by skuzzlebutt · · Score: 1

    Because a segment of the internet dedicated to government and "high risk" sectors would be much safer...like when I put a DO NOT STEAL note on my bike.

    --
    My debut novel AMITY now available: http://jeremydbrooks.c
  13. WTF?!? by thestudio_bob · · Score: 1

    Jesus Christ, you mean they're not!?!?

    What f$*!!ing moron thought it was a good idea to do this, anyway. I was always under the assumption that critical system were not connected to the internet.

    Holy Moly, I'm not going to sleep well tonight.

    --
    The real Sig captains the Northwestern. This one captains /.
    1. Re:WTF?!? by Penguinisto · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They are for the Military - Google for NIPR and SIPR as a good start...

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    2. Re:WTF?!? by fluffy99 · · Score: 1

      SIPR is partitioned, although some of the encrypted tunnels do go over unsecured links making them subject to DOS attacks. NIPR is not completely partitioned. It still has connection points to the internet. Despite heavy filtering and monitoring of those connections, its still too easy for intrusions since you simply can't inspect every piece of email or ssl data coming and going through those choke points.

    3. Re:WTF?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this is somehow reminding me of an episode of IT crowd:
      two admins walk across town, stumble upon a robot opening an backpack.
      when looking around they see a policeman working on a laptop and realize it is a remote-controlled bomb-disarming robot.
      Their next question is about the OS running on the laptop controlling the robot......

  14. So, what they want is... by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, what they want is a private IP-based network. No sweat, we've been building those for a couple of decades now. When I did point-of-sale for a truck-stock company, we had our own private network for connecting to our stores, credit-card processors and the like. You need routers, appropriate leased-line or other dedicated bandwidth, and some time spent on a white-board laying out the topology. The only real hard part is making sure you don't connect any machines to this network that also have connections to the public Internet. Yes, this means the machines on that network aren't going to be able to access the public Internet. You wanted a private, isolated network, you get a private, isolated network. If you want to live dangerously you can create appropriate DMZs and firewalls and proxies to give internal machines external access, but remember that that means worms, viruses and other malware can ride in on stuff coming back in through that external access and infect machines inside the perimeter. At that point your "protected" network isn't protected at all (in fact it's probably more vulnerable, since you likely skimped on internal protection since it's supposed to be a protected network).

    1. Re:So, what they want is... by interval1066 · · Score: 1

      "So, what they want is a private IP-based network. No sweat..."

      You're absolutely right, of course. The problem comes in when they're working on their great little pos application in their walled garden and then some one says "Hey! You know what'd be great? If we installed SATAN and did an audit of Router D over there, well lemme just jump over to... oh yeah...", then they connect up and their walled garden is for sh*t...

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    2. Re:So, what they want is... by david.given · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I've always wondered why people in this situation didn't build private networks based on protocols other than IP. A quick glance at /etc/protocols shows dozens of different protocols that can be carried by ethernet --- there must be something there that's sufficiently flexible to build a useful network out of but can't be carried by the Internet without protocol conversion. The old OSI protocol suite, for example. Or even write your own if you want special features, such as pervasive authentication on all connections (so you always know who made a connection, not just where from).

      This adds an extra level of protection, in that it's much harder to be accidentally gatewayed onto the Internet; you need to have special applications that speak both IP and whatever protocol you're using and translate between them to even communicate.

      Of course, you'll probably end up having to rewrite your entire set of application software from scratch to speak the new protocol, but TBH if you really need the security this is likely to be a good idea anyway (provided you don't farm it out to the lowest bidder). And if you're so concerned about security that you're willing to contemplate partitioning the Internet, cost isn't likely to be an issue...

    3. Re:So, what they want is... by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

      Not a problem. As a developer I had full Internet access. Grab SATAN, install it, run it, no problem. If I needed to get it onto the internal network, I just had to burn it to CD and take it over to one of the Support machines that was on the internal network. Or, later on, use ssh and scp to move it to a bastion host and then onto the production-side system I needed it on. Fortunately we were using Unix and X11 and weren't dependent on a full desktop environment, so running all the graphical tools I needed through an SSH X11 tunnel was fairly trivial.

    4. Re:So, what they want is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      "The only real hard part is making sure you don't connect any machines to this network that also have connections to the public Internet."

      And that, my dear Watson, is the kicker. On the scale he's talking about, it's untenable. Someone, somewhere on the network, will hook up a modem, or an AP with WEP or a default PSK, or what-have-you, Maybe even deliberately. And then you get serious havoc.

      And yes, it already happened. "TJX", anyone? I'm sure you can find more where that one came from.

    5. Re:So, what they want is... by dkf · · Score: 1

      Someone, somewhere on the network, will hook up a modem, or an AP with WEP or a default PSK, or what-have-you, Maybe even deliberately. And then you get serious havoc.

      A good first start is to make routers only route packets for known MAC addresses, and include something so they go screaming to the central sysadmins when an unknown MAC shows up. Then all you need to do is to control the specific devices that you do allow on. (It's possible to get around this, but it requires a lot more work on the part of users than just plugging in an unauthorized device.)

      None of this means that you shouldn't be deploying secure protocols inside the locked-down network of course. For one thing, it's damn rare (especially on a large network) that everyone allowed on at all is also allowed to see and manipulate everything, so software-level security needs to help out with that. Common sense really...

      --
      "Little does he know, but there is no 'I' in 'Idiot'!"
    6. Re:So, what they want is... by mrogers · · Score: 2, Informative

      I've always wondered why people in this situation didn't build private networks based on protocols other than IP. A quick glance at /etc/protocols shows dozens of different protocols that can be carried by ethernet --- there must be something there that's sufficiently flexible to build a useful network out of but can't be carried by the Internet without protocol conversion.

      It's even easier than that - just patch every host (and every router, unfortunately - but hey, Cisco, here's where you get your billion dollar contract) to set the version field of IP packets to something that's invalid on the internet - let's say 3 - and to reject all other versions. That's got to be, what, a ten line patch? After that you can use off-the-shelf software for all the higher protocol layers, but if someone accidentally connects the private network to the internet, no packets will pass between the two networks.

    7. Re:So, what they want is... by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

      Forget at the routers. In a network like this you should be using managed switches, and every switch should be set up with a filter on each port limiting the MAC addresses it'll allow through to just the ones that're supposed to be plugged into that port. Plus, ports that shouldn't be in use should be disabled in the switch and the system should scream if the same authorized MAC address shows up on two different ports at the same time. If you're got wireless, it ought to be doing Radius authentication with those same MAC address checks, and there should be an alarm if both the wireless and the wired MAC addresses of a single authorized device show up at the same time.

  15. Re:Fine! Let it be so! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... and while we're at it, maybe we can get the U.S. on the metric system.

    Now wait just a minute, that's going way to far !

  16. "Partition"? Build separate infrastructure instead by zooblethorpe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's just it, though, the only way to truly securely establish a separate network would be to run separate lines -- build in separate hardware, build in an air gap. Attempting to "partition" the Internet at the software level is pure silliness -- unless you command both ends of the pipe, and all points in between, there's a chance that someone may be able to intercept your traffic. And with deep packet inspection and similar tools these days, they could thus also alter your traffic, meaning any communications over the Internet cannot be secure, at least not in the way this Keith Alexander is talking about.

    Cheers,

    --
    "What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
    "A four-foot prune."
  17. By Clicking On This Link ( +1, Top Secret ) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    You hereby agree to pay Kilgore Trout of Euro 100,000,000 for consulting with Cyber Command about running their own private network.

    Please see Private Network.

    Thanks in advance.

    Yours In Vladivostok,
    Kilgore Trout, C.I.O.

  18. More Secure? by Lohrno · · Score: 1

    Cool so those Critical Industries and Government areas can be more easily isolated and thus made less secure? Thats what it sounds like to me but I'm certainly not knowledgable...

  19. I think it is simple... by Fallen+Kell · · Score: 1

    If it is in charge of a critical resource in which people's lives and safety is at risk, it should not be connected to the internet. I can be on its own, internal private network with no actual physical connection externally. It can be a pain at first, but really it is not that bad. Even if you need to download patches, etc, you simply download them to a box that is on the internet, put it on removable media, scan the media for viruses, remove it and connect to the stand-alone network. Really not that big a deal.

    --
    We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
    1. Re:I think it is simple... by sabt-pestnu · · Score: 1

      > scan the media for known viruses

      FTFY, thereby illustrating the flaw in considering it "not that big a deal".

    2. Re:I think it is simple... by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Even if you need to download patches, etc, you simply download them to a box that is on the internet, put it on removable media, scan the media for viruses, remove it and connect to the stand-alone network. Really not that big a deal.

      Unless you've bought into the whole SAAS model, and half the things you need to do require you to be connected to the internet. Or a software vendor you are dealing with requires internet access for license validation/activation. Or you've outsourced 9/10ths of your IT to a company that provides via remote access solutions like teamviewer/logmeinrescue/redmote desktop or even good old ssh... or they've bought into remote online backups...

      Air-gapping systems from the internet can be a lot more complicated than you imagine.

      I can't speak to military or utility requirements. But in common scenarious like medical systems in hospitals, or industrial manufacturing its often not very practical.

    3. Re:I think it is simple... by monkyyy · · Score: 0

      "half the things you need to do require you to be connected to the internet." "rule 62. It has been cracked and pirated. No exceptions."

      --
      warning pointless sig
    4. Re:I think it is simple... by Fallen+Kell · · Score: 1

      Considering I work in such an environment, and we have been hit with extremely few viruses, it really isn't that big a deal. 80-90% of the viruses and worms out there require internet connectivity anyway to do what they do anymore, from updating themselves to delivering the actual payload, to controlling the system. All of those things go away when you are air-gapped. If and when you do get a virus, it is much easier to deal with as many of the methods used to maintain the infection no longer exist because it doesn't have access to an internet address(es) to re-infect the system if it was not fully erased by the software. It also helps to run unix, linux, or BSD at the site, and log all media through designated scan systems. Again, almost all infections can be caught at the gatekeepers.

      --
      We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
    5. Re:I think it is simple... by Decker-Mage · · Score: 1

      "Even if you need to download patches, etc, you simply download them to a box that is on the internet, put it on removable media, scan the media for viruses, remove it and connect to the stand-alone network. Really not that big a deal."

      Actually it is that big a deal. Any time you do the removable media transfer (sneaker-net) you can kiss your system security goodbye. All the scanning in the world is not going to save you from something that does not have a signature in your scanning software. Behavioral heuristics may pick up on a piece of malware but even that is not guaranteed. Especially if it incorporates an easter egg.

      In any case, you will run afoul of classification if one 'net has a different classification level. Media for a particular classification level can not be inserted into a machine with a different classification level in order to at least do some bit of risk mitigation. That's the way it worked when I was in charge of the systems and the regulations have become even more draconian since then.

      --
      "[I]t is a wise man who admits the limits of his knowledge or skill, and that pretending either causes harm." --Terry Go
    6. Re:I think it is simple... by fluffy99 · · Score: 1

      All of those things go away when you are air-gapped.

      Until you get clueless users moving files back-n-forth by sneaking in thumb drives. Go ask the DOD why they banned thumb drives.

    7. Re:I think it is simple... by vux984 · · Score: 1

      "half the things you need to do require you to be connected to the internet." "rule 62. It has been cracked and pirated. No exceptions."

      And when you are running this stuff on your home computer in your basement that's just peachy. Although, you probably don't need to run an industrial robotic manufacturing assembly line in your mom's basement.

      It doesn't work so well in the business world; a lot of this stuff has real contracts (not just eula's), real license audits, and getting the support / service you are paying top dollar is part of the deal. You don't 'crack and pirate' the software. It would be pointless and silly.

  20. Re:Fine! Let it be so! by PincushionMan · · Score: 1

    Yes. And while we're at it, the NSA Chief would like a pony to go with his Internet Mk2, please.

  21. Isn't this kinda backwards? by Sooner+Boomer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I mean, wasn't the internet designed/made for the military in the first place (ARPA/DARPA)? Then first the institutions (.edu) and later the commercial market (.com) came along and took it over. I guess creating a new network from scratch (and doing it RIGHT this time) is easier than kicking the rest of us pikers off of what was theirs in the first place.

    --
    Chaos maximizes locally around me.
    1. Re:Isn't this kinda backwards? by ScrappyLaptop · · Score: 1

      Pretty sure the first ARPANET nodes were UCLA and Stanford Research Institute, followed by UCSB and the U of Utah.

    2. Re:Isn't this kinda backwards? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Internet as it was first designed/made, isn't the same as what we today call the Internet. The US would have to go to war with the rest of the world to kick everyone else off.
      The person/persons who constructed the first roads couldn't just kick everyone of all of the road-networks in the world just because he/she/they created the first one.

  22. Re:"Partition"? Build separate infrastructure inst by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    unless you command both ends of the pipe, and all points in between, there's a chance that someone may be able to intercept your traffic

    Isn't that the whole idea behind a VPN?

  23. the best government is no government by NemoinSpace · · Score: 0, Flamebait
    FTA

    the country's critical infrastructure, 85 percent of which is owned by private companies. He said the agencies may need additional powers to take action during a cyber attack.

    Seems to me the best way to improve security on the nations privately owned networks would be to cut the cable to the NSA. If the government want's to improve their internal networks, tell them to stop issuing laptops to morons who "lose" them.

    I wonder what "additional powers" he has in mind? Isn't the Patriot Act draconian enough? When it comes to nationalizing private resources, I suppose this administration is warming up to Cuba more than ever :).

  24. Re:"Partition"? Build separate infrastructure inst by causality · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That's just it, though, the only way to truly securely establish a separate network would be to run separate lines -- build in separate hardware, build in an air gap. Attempting to "partition" the Internet at the software level is pure silliness -- unless you command both ends of the pipe, and all points in between, there's a chance that someone may be able to intercept your traffic. And with deep packet inspection and similar tools these days, they could thus also alter your traffic, meaning any communications over the Internet cannot be secure, at least not in the way this Keith Alexander is talking about.

    Cheers,

    I think a much better approach is to assume that the intermediate network is insecure and beyond your control. Then, use very strong end-to-end encryption to make a secure tunnel, much like the SSH approach. I mean, this is the NSA here. It's not like they wouldn't know how to use good encryption.

    --
    It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
  25. Re:"Partition"? Build separate infrastructure inst by cheater512 · · Score: 1

    Whats wrong with a government and critical infrastructure VPN?

  26. Cyberdyne? by gmuslera · · Score: 1

    While you still have people in any partition you make you will still be at risk. And you still want that people visit your sites, no? NO?

  27. In a world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where a single dongle can be attached to a USB port and access the internet like that, partitioning the internet is just a waste of time and effort...

    1. Re:In a world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      I had to imagine this thread read by the movie trailer voice guy because of the title.

  28. NSA chief invents "Networking", film at 11. by eataTREE · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As many have no doubt pointed out, there is not now and has never been anything that stops anyone from building their own TCP/IP-based network and only allowing trusted users/machines/sites to connect to that network. There is no inherent need to connect *anything* to the public Internet, much less an asset that contains confidential information.

    The thing that bothers me most about this announcement is the clear implication that secret data *isn't* currently partitioned onto private networks at top-secret government agencies.

  29. Typical.. by Paracelcus · · Score: 1

    Never heard of an "air gap".

    --
    I killed da wabbit -Elmer Fudd
  30. For cyberfuck's cybersake. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "NSA cyberchief CyberKeith Alexander, also the cyberhead of the US Cyber Command told cybereporters that he would like to see the cybercreation of a secure cyberzone on the CyberInternet for cybergovernment and critical private cybersector cyberindustries such as cyberutility cybercompanies and the cyberfinancial cybersector. Alexander has repeatedly cyberemphasized the dramatic cybernature of the cybercyber cyberthreat cyberfacing American cybernetworks and his cybercomments were a further cybersign that the Pentagon does not think the cyberwar against foreign cyberhackers can be won. Alexander cyberdenied the cybermilitary has any cyberole in cybersafeguarding cybercivilian cybernetworks currently, but didn't cyberule out the cyberoption in the cyberfuture."

    It's been reduced to a meaningless prefix and doubly so when redundantly applied to matters cyberian.

  31. absolutely, do it yourself, fool by swschrad · · Score: 4, Insightful

    you get yourself a bunch of private pipes, and you use them as a backbone using IP, and you use a private set of addresses like the 10-net, and you make no connections whatsoever between this and The Connected Internet.

    and you have an internet.

    and it's not connected to The Connected Internet.

    and then you can control your own security.

    and as long as you do not put any software on any machines on the private internet that comes from untrusted sources and has not been vetted, you're nice and secure.

    nothing with any criticality should EVER be connected to The Connected Internet.

    glad you've made a start in this process. now build one. a bunch of pre-teens could hash up one in an hour if you don't need a bunch of wacky routing rules.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
    1. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by lseltzer · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's not pipes, it's TUBES! TUBES!

    2. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by tgatliff · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Let me guess.... Actually, what this is really about is that the head of NSA is upset that he cannot currently stream HD 1080p porn directly to his desk from another government friend employee. I mean, it is just sooooo choppy. A new network must be made immediately!!!

    3. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by Z00L00K · · Score: 2

      And a lot of useful information that exists on the Internet will be unavailable, so the disadvantages of the private net will outweigh the advantages.

      Most of the problems on the net is caused by the fact that most computers runs the same OS (or OS family) which makes it easy for intruders. A larger variation in operating systems and applications would have made it a lot harder for malicious people.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    4. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, do you pronounce the "ou" in router as in "out" or in "toot"?

    5. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That already exists. Depending on the intelligence agency, there are many "high-side" networks that operate exactly like "The Internet". Some even have a version of twitter and facebook/myspace.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Worldwide_Intelligence_Communications_System

    6. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by gerf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      wacky routing rules

      This is absolutely necessary. I'll asplain why.

      A Unconnected Internet would be a pretty much by definition a lucrative honeypot for those who you are trying to keep out. As such, it'd be the most targeted network imaginable, with any entity (China Iran Venezuela, N. Korea, Cowboy Neal, al Qaeda, IRA, Libya..) that would possibly want to damage infrastructure a super huge easy target. Since it's a "separate" network run by the internet-incompetent government, it's going to be vulnerable once access is had. So, you're going to have people bribed to plug in USB sticks to Siemens controllers (see previous /. story). So, we'll need to find out where attacks are coming from, and not allow any kind of anonymity on this super-trusted network. Therefore, since we'll need uber traceability, we'll need some crazy routing.

      Perhaps not. I just think that this sort of network, if made wrong (most likely), would be a detriment to security, especially with civilian access.

    7. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by bev_tech_rob · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When I read the summary that is what I thought....'isn't he describing a private WAN?'.... Critical infrastructure control systems shouldn't be connected to the open internet, period. The CEO's can loosen their purse strings and hire someone to monitor the systems instead of trying to do it remotely.

      --
      You're messin' with my Zen Thing, man.....
    8. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by MightyMartian · · Score: 2, Interesting

      In theory, the idea makes sense. In reality, unless you're going to have every terminal under armed guard, there's going to be risks, and even armed guards won't completely eliminate those risks. If it's an IP network, it and the protocols that flow on top of it will be vulnerable in the same way that the real Internet is.

      If there were a way to make safe zones in the manner that this guy is talking of it would have been done long ago. Unfortunately, security is really hard, and requires not just the talent of a lot of IT professionals in different disciplines, but it also requires the discipline of the users. You can only lock things down so far before they cease to be useful.

      But every few years you'll have some high-level mucky-muck declare something like this, as if security experts hadn't been at the problem for the last twenty years, since the Internet first really began to see people outside of government, military and academia started using it and the holes in the protocols started becoming more obvious.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    9. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You forgot one thing. The biggest security hole is the massively large number of contractors who will unavoidably be accessing the net he is talking about.

      Also, having everything inside such a net, if history is a guide, will likely lead to a false sense of security and standardizations across API's and automated control processes. Now instead of having to do perhaps something different to hack different banks, utilities or subsystems you only need to learn from a small set of common libraries.

      "As a final safeguard against a sustained attack we have implemented the System.BringDownPrivateINet function. Upon triggering all systems simply turn off. System operators will restore systems to operational status from last good backup after the president gives the all clear......"

    10. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US military already has this. It's called the SIPERNET. Unfortunately that's the one that is infected with viruses from time to time by people plugging in usb storage devices. If a human (other than you) can have physical contact with your network, you are not secure. What a Doofus...

    11. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Glad to see I'm not the only one confused by this. Now call me an old hillbilly, but I kinda thought the whole point of having VPNs,VLANs, and subnetting, was for things such as this? With VPNs it really ain't hard to set up a private pipe between points A and B, and if they don't connect to anything but the VPN, such as keeping Internet boxes on their own separate subnet and having the secure boxes connected via VLAN and VPN, wouldn't that give them EXACTLY what they are asking for? Or is this just another excuse for wanting more government control of the Internet because "OMG it is becoming teh scary and what if shit was to break ZOMG!", because honestly I thought having private nets was something we solved quite awhile back.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    12. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by CPNABEND · · Score: 1

      Wait! Can't we just fix this with switch zoning?

      --
      My wife doesn't listen to me either...
    13. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by Hatta · · Score: 1

      That's an intranet.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    14. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by ls671 · · Score: 2

      You may be right.

      Apparently, NSA designed IPSEC and I did not see it mentioned even once in the article nor in the /. comments.

      Very strange...

      Of course simply using IPSEC wouldn't provide faster downloads but it could be virtually close to just as safe as a private physical network ;-)

      WTF ?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPsec

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    15. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      If you aren't planning on connecting your tubes to the public ones you don't even need to bother with the private addresses. Address uniqueness only matters if the two are connected, which you are supposed to be avoiding anyway.

    16. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you get yourself a bunch of private pipes, and you use them as a backbone using IP, and you use a private set of addresses like the 10-net, and you make no connections whatsoever between this and The Connected Internet.

      and you have an internet.

      and it's not connected to The Connected Internet.

      and then you can control your own security.

      and as long as you do not put any software on any machines on the private internet that comes from untrusted sources and has not been vetted, you're nice and secure.

      nothing with any criticality should EVER be connected to The Connected Internet.

      glad you've made a start in this process. now build one. a bunch of pre-teens could hash up one in an hour if you don't need a bunch of wacky routing rules.

      Couldn't have said it better!

    17. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by mr_mischief · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There's no reason to hook up just one network to your facility if you need real security. You can have public Internet access on one set of systems and private internet (small 'i') access on others.

      If you need to search Google (which would probably have a separate government-funded server farm and Milnet (oops I mean "private secure internet") connection anyway) you go to an Internet-connected system. If you need to access a secure remote site, you go to the private network systems.

      If you need to get data from the public Internet to your private network, you use removable media only, move only non-executable data, and scan it very carefully with a number of tools for cleverly crafted data formats designed to overflow buffers or smash stacks.

      If you need to move info from your secure systems to the public Internet... then you don't really need your secure systems that damn much first of all. Yet if for some reason you do need to do this, you can use removable media for that. I've even seen people read from one terminal and type into another to bridge information across networks that were kept separate for security reasons.

    18. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      Any halfway competent script kiddie can DDoS a VPN.

    19. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The trouble with the OS diversity argument is that it is really calibrated to the concerns of "low interest" targets. If my computer is worth maybe 25 cents as a low-reliability spam node, with perhaps a buck worth of credit card details cached somewhere, the fact that it is running the same OS as another $HUGE_NUMBER of machines is basically the only thing that makes it worth attacking. Writing a decent virus/worm/trojan and maybe doing some social engineering to get me to download it isn't free, nor does it take zero time. On the other side of the same coin, nuisances like spam are largely supported by the fact that huge swaths of homogeneous compromised boxes are available.

      If you are a high interest target(either economically valuable, or because of some sort of cloak-and-dagger dickwaving) however, the argument changes. You, personally, could easily be economically or strategically viable as a target for your very own targeted attack, specifically crafted for whatever you are running. Unfortunately, the security of a lot of specialty systems is such utter shit that it makes a desktop windows box look ironclad(particularly if you are really mean and count vulnerabilities per unit features, rather than absolute number of vulnerabilities). "Many eyes make bugs shallow" isn't entirely true; but "no eyes makes bugs invisible" often is. It is rather like CAPTCHAs. If you are a low traffic/virtually no traffic site/forum/whatever, rolling your own CAPTCHA can actually be more secure than using an off the shelf one. Unless you are Real Serious, yours will be lousy; but what it guards is of such little worth that nobody is likely to take the time to tune their cracker to your unique, if probably flawed, system. A high value asset, on the other hand, can be assured that people will be tuning their systems against their CAPTCHA, so they are better off going with the best technology presently available for the purpose.

      This certainly isn't an argument for monoculture, even extremely commonly used systems have flaws, and you can't risk having everything relying on them; but having obscure oddities around can make you less safe from the serious guys, even as it keeps the kiddies out(The specific Phillips programmable controllers targeted by the attack discussed earlier today, for example, probably aren't going to get turned into spam bots anytime soon; but somebody did some very specific legwork to hit those...)

      The really big argument against monoculture, in high security type systems and environments(besides not making you a specific contractor's bitch forever) is probably institutional/cultural. Even if you start out with the best of intentions, and the most authoritative of admins, the fact that you are running some commodity system creates psychological and institutional pressures to start acting like everyone else. If, on the other hand, the distinction between Real Serious Systems and toy boxes is immediately visible as a difference in software, people are less likely to let their habits from one bleed over into the other(in fact, even if one were starting with a commodity OS like windows, linux, or BSD, one might consider deliberately breaking some convention good and hard, just to keep people from bringing their sloppy habits and software with them)...

    20. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Barring a downright thermonuclear change in procurement practices, the large number of contractors won't just be accessing it, they'll build it, run it, administer it, heck, probably own it and lease it back to the feds for some absurd fee calculated according to what a set of mainframes connected by leased lines would have cost in the 80's...

    21. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The best security is phsyical security, and that means only having connections to those you trust. The Internet is not that. I'm sorry, but you have to be blind to think something like IPSec on the connected Internet is even comparable. I also thank you for not being involved in computer security policy, but I do seemingly like your crash and burn mentality.

    22. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As far as I can determine, NSA designed IPSEC in order to ensure that the standard encryption technology for internet is so complex and hard to use that no one bothers to try except a few geeks and the few security critical industries where everyone understands the need for security and is ready to put up with complexity. The benefit for NSA is that they can keep on wiretapping the majority of internet communications with impunity.

    23. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      my though exactly. put some wan router and connect them directly one another via direct communication lines and *whammo* your separate internet is ready to go.

      or just use ipsec with proper routers and proper administrators that forbids the boss' boss to go surf internet from his office computer just because he's a testosterone filled bully and scares all the office to comply to his orders and not to the code.

      really, the problem you're trying to fix lies not the insecurity of internet, but in the bully attitude of 'I can do' bosses

    24. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by h00manist · · Score: 1

      The benefit for NSA is that they can keep on wiretapping the majority of internet communications with impunity.

      Your evidence, reason for suspicion, or hunch is...

      --
      Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
    25. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by ultranova · · Score: 2, Insightful

      and you make no connections whatsoever between this and The Connected Internet.

      And the larger your network grows, the harder this becomes to enforce. A single laptop connecting to a nearby open Wi-Fi port is sufficient to compromise you. So is someone using a mobile data connection or something to check their e-mail. And of course, if your network is big enough, an attacker can simply physically intersect the cables.

      No, it's best to assume that any network will be compromised and design accordingly. Don't network the most critical control systems at all, isolate the semi-critical ones, let people connect to the public Internet from their desk/laptop computers, because they will anyway so you have to treat them as if they were, so they can as well get the convenience of a real connection.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    26. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by ultranova · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As such, it'd be the most targeted network imaginable, with any entity (China Iran Venezuela, N. Korea, Cowboy Neal, al Qaeda, IRA, Libya..)

      Of this list, only China and Al-Qaeda are likely to attack the US's infrastructure. Iran and Venezuela have nothing to gain from such a stunt, and would simply be giving the US an excuse to invade. The same is true of North Korea, who's leader cares only about his own life of luxury. Al-Qaeda is nuts, while China is a rival for world power, so they might do it. Dunno about Libya. And Cowboy Neal is unlikely to saw off the branch he's sitting on.

      Stop making up boogeymen, OK?

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    27. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by c6gunner · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Paranoia.

    28. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you get yourself a bunch of private pipes, and you use them as a backbone using IP, and you use a private set of addresses like the 10-net, and you make no connections whatsoever between this and The Connected Internet.

      Apparently you are under the all to common misconception that NAT is a security measure.....

      nothing with any criticality should EVER be connected to The Connected Internet.

      If every "critical" system was taken off "The Connected Internet", it would make the entire "Connected Internet" useless to everyone.....

      I am not opposed to securing certain critical networks, possibly even creating a national intranet of sorts, with some "clearance" required to get on that national backbone.

    29. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by Forum-Matter · · Score: 1

      you get yourself a bunch of private pipes, and you use them as a backbone using IP, and you use a private set of addresses like the 10-net, and you make no connections whatsoever between this and The Connected Internet.

      What you advocate is not "an internet" - it is an Intranet. Or you might call it a private network.

    30. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by navyjeff · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If a computer can be infected with a virus simply by plugging in a USB storage device, you're doing it wrong. The military needs to turn off Auto-Run (or any kind of execution privileges) for every one of their computers for external storage devices. This problem has been prevalent for 10 years and they still haven't fixed it.

    31. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by networkBoy · · Score: 2, Funny

      You Sir are an idiot. Underestimating the power & insanity of Cowboy Neal as you so obviously do!

      (:heh: sorry, couldn't resist)

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    32. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by Gilmoure · · Score: 2, Funny

      I thought there were trucks involved.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    33. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      HURD?

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    34. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The part of the grandparent post that is far-fetched is the part that you didn't quote - there is no evidence that they sabotaged IPSEC development. The part about NSA wiretapping the Internet is common knowledge.

      In brief, the whole point of NSA is signals intelligence, i.e. wiretapping and listening to radio and other transmissions. By law they are limited to foreign communications, but there have been a number of high profile cases where they worked around that restriction: see for example their wikipedia page.

    35. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Secure internet breached with a "mifi device" and a dd-wrt router programmed to connect out to an openvpn server and tunnel packets in and out of the "private network". There is no such thing as private anymore, unless you can control the personnel.

    36. Re:absolutely, do it yourself, fool by ciggieposeur · · Score: 1

      If a computer can be infected with a virus simply by plugging in a USB storage device, you're doing it wrong.

      That's only true if the USB device is a generic mass storage device. If instead it pretends to be a keyboard it can do a lot of damage within seconds.

  32. An utter waste of time.... by rickb928 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Completely. They have the .mil network, and can't secure that. So the answer is to segregate the 'real' Internet and a 'secure' Internet?

    And this will prevent infestations via USB drive how exactly?

    I thought so. Next, please.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    1. Re:An utter waste of time.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So the answer is to segregate the 'real' Internet and a 'secure' Internet?

      And this will prevent infestations via USB drive how exactly?

      Create 'Secure USB' as well? Make dumb, physically locked and sealed 'Secure PCs' without any local mountable/removable mass I/O?

    2. Re:An utter waste of time.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The acknowledged .mil break-ins have all been on the publicly accessible internet connections. Mostly the result of lackadaisical security and script kiddie type attacks on beige box PCs. SIPRNET is physically isolated in facilities that use it and everything that is routed through public networks is encrypted. You can't do much more than FTP files out of it and even that requires someone on the inside with the privileges to do so. Regarding USB trojans, I would expect that all secure facilities running PCs these days have the policies set to lock down all ports and removable media. With locked cases and battery backed intrusion detection switches monitored, it would be hard do anything wrong without being caught.

    3. Re:An utter waste of time.... by evanism · · Score: 1

      because any doofus with a mobile phone and a USB can be James Bond. They can pull off all that whacky seconds-to-the-millenium bank hack attacks and steal billions. Not enough sharks with lasers I suspect.

      --
      Just bought a new quantum computer, but I'm uncertain how it works.
    4. Re:An utter waste of time.... by briansct · · Score: 1

      Right. If this was a political move all, this idiot did was incite more hackers to show him how completely stupid he truly is. I say bring it on! More security makes more hackers innovate. Innovation is the source of technological advancement. The more they try to control, the more people will fight against it. There's too many brilliant hackers in this world to create anything secure. But that's what makes the whole thing so great.

      --
      What's the point of Mod points over a long weekend?
    5. Re:An utter waste of time.... by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      Ordinarily I would agree, but so many /.'rs would not believe the military could secure their environments, so why would pointing out that the obvious security methods should work...?

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    6. Re:An utter waste of time.... by rickb928 · · Score: 1

      There IS NO security.

      Let's get it straight. Absolute security doesn't exist. There is always a way.

      Now, securing military systems in a closed room with an armed Marine guard would reduce the rick of physical compromise greatly. Not to zero, but pretty good.

      Securing utility systems against remote attacks will take concerted efforts, and will raise the inconvenience level also, so expect some problems.

      But perfection? No.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  33. VPN on Internet still vuln to DDOS etc by zooblethorpe · · Score: 1

    Although the signal content might be secure, the signal itself would still be prone to disruption through various shenanigans like DDOS attacks and the like. A dedicated physically separate network would not face the same issues unless physically compromised. On the wide-open Internet, though, some bored teenager in Kuala Lumpur or Rotorua or Arkhangelsk could conceivably disrupt government systems, especially when so many such systems seem to be run on known-insecure Windows.

    Cheers,

    --
    "What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
    "A four-foot prune."
  34. Re:"Partition"? Build separate infrastructure inst by Twanfox · · Score: 1

    DDoS attacks don't rely on compromising data so much as they rely on denying you access to resources. If you're on the same network as the 'unwashed masses', they can flood your pipe and block you from getting out unless you've got some really good traffic management protocols.

  35. Encryption secures content, no gty on delivery by zooblethorpe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sure, the NSA is undoubtedly up on the best crytpo around. While encryption will secure a message payload, it doesn't ensure that the message gets where it's going -- routing traffic over the Internet leaves the end- and midpoints open to DDOS and other attacks, tying up servers and preventing message transmission. A physically separate network, however, would avoid much of the harmful noise that happens in teh intarwebs.

    Cheers,

    --
    "What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
    "A four-foot prune."
    1. Re:Encryption secures content, no gty on delivery by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      Assuming nobody digs down to the fibres or installs malicious hardware which sits quietly until when you want to cause problems and then spams the network until smoke comes out of the routers

    2. Re:Encryption secures content, no gty on delivery by monkyyy · · Score: 0

      i think they could do that already

      --
      warning pointless sig
    3. Re:Encryption secures content, no gty on delivery by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      You can tell when most people are monitoring a fiber connection. It takes some real sophistication to do it without altering the propagation times, received intensity, etc. Most techniques involve actually splicing in, and they can tell approximately where the break in the cable was made remotely.

    4. Re:Encryption secures content, no gty on delivery by HungryHobo · · Score: 1

      Who said anything about monitering?
      i'm assuming decent encryption would be used.
      I was talking about hammering the network for an hour or so when it would be least convenient for the owners.

  36. Isn't that Internet 2? by jd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The whole point of the Internet 2 project was to provide secure, robust, high-speed communication to those who needed it. Not that I really know what makes "Internet 2" anything more than a section of the regular Internet 1 with restrictions on traffic routing off the high-speed backbone they've got. That and a functional IPv6 infrastructure which they've had in place for about 15 years without the need of tunnel brokers. Oh, and IPv6-aware applications - something else Internet 1 users have too few of and they've plenty of.

    So the military have only NOW realized that putting sensitive or mission-critical information over a public network is a Bad Idea? Pffft. Pull the other one. They're one of the key players IN the Internet 2 endeavor. I can understand them wanting to get power stations and other critical infrastructure onto it, I can even understand them thinking Joe Public is too stupid to remember all of the news coverage Internet 2 has had over they years, or to google to see if such a network exists. But I'm frankly amazed that they've not been called on it by anyone, and shocked (shocked I tell you!) that nobody on Slashdot has mentioned it.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    1. Re:Isn't that Internet 2? by jmac_the_man · · Score: 1

      So the military have only NOW realized that putting sensitive or mission-critical information over a public network is a Bad Idea? Pffft. Pull the other one. They're one of the key players IN the Internet 2 endeavor. I can understand them wanting to get power stations and other critical infrastructure onto it

      To be fair, the military was one of the key players IN the Internet 1 endeavor too. They also run a special, non-Internet connected WAN called SIPRNet for classified information. (Which means that they understand why it's bad to put mission critical information on a public network.) It sounds like this guy is proposing making a version of SIPRNet (that is, a private, non-Internet WAN) with civilians agencies (police, firefighters) and infrastructure (hospitals, power plants, maybe mass transit.) Sounds reasonable to me.

    2. Re:Isn't that Internet 2? by dachshund · · Score: 1

      The whole point of the Internet 2 project was to provide secure, robust, high-speed communication to those who needed it.

      While I agree with the high-speed part, I'm not sure that security was every part of the deal, at least not security in the sense that the NSA would care about. I2 is basically a collection of research facilities and lightly-secured academic institutions. While universities aren't terrible with their security, it's way down the list of things we care about.

      But getting back on topic, there's a basic problem with any plan to build a segregated Internet. While it's a good idea in the sense that it increases availability and makes DDoS harder, it's essentially nothing more than building a giant firewall around a huge tranche of the Internet. If you've ever observed a worm spread through the Intranet of a large organization, you'll appreciate how ineffective this will be --- all it takes is a few infected machines to threaten the entire network. The concern is that system administrators (the guys who hook critical machines up to the real Internet today) will assume that the segregated network is "safe", and will then make even dumber decisions based on this belief.

    3. Re:Isn't that Internet 2? by Artifakt · · Score: 1

      SIPRNet is for traffic up to classification Secret. The Military also has NIPRNET (Non-Classified Internet Protocol Router Network) for less sensitive information, and presumably something nebulously above and beyond SIPRNet for any transmission of TS data. This is actually a very good model of how to do things (IMHO), but expensive. Cost wise, that theoretical model might entail a hospital using multiple isolated networks, with one for HIPAA traffic, perhaps another for ordering controlled pharmaceuticals and radioisotopes, and another, more deeply isolated one for WILDFIRE reports and such, and essentially all traffic to/from the CDC in Atlanta and such agencies. Practically, the projected expense would probably drive the hospital to stick with sending all HIIPAA traffic by VPN over the regular Internet (if they are at least consistently up to that standard already).

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
  37. There is a good reason for this by Aqualung812 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I used to work at a bank, and I really wished for something like this. Imagine a network with no home connections, nothing moving across it but VPNs. VPNs from bank to bank, power company to government, etc. Every node would be authenticated. No worms.

    In this type of network, I can turn the logging on my firewall to the max, and anything that even looks at my bank's firewall with a ping can be reported to the agency that runs the show. Once it is confirmed that they're going where they should not, they're kicked off the network.

    The issue I had is that because there are so many cases where bank A needs to talk to bank B, and neither want to have the T1 line under their name. If the Internet goes down, no money can be moved and there are big problems. Making a walled place for this would be great.

    People need to understand that you can EITHER have security OR the ability to be anonymous. If you want one, you're losing the other.

    --
    Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
    1. Re:There is a good reason for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do believe you're on crack, sir. But you're in good company.

      Back in the day, before wide "The Internet" availability, it was already a problem that desktop computers would be delivered to the enterprise with modems installed. Inevitably someone would hook up the modem, or even bring one himself and hook that up, for "easy access" from home. That would bring down the wrath of the wardialer on the enterprise network, or just that user if it was an enterprise admin or hired tiger team doing the wardialing. Other solutions that do something similar "in today's landscape" exist and will indubitably end up on enterprise networks as long as not every single desktop is locked down to kiosk mode. The beauty of this is that it brings instant impersonation with it, too. Instant identity theft is arguably worse than having an attacker being known anonymous.

      You're quite right that the big problems become obvious as soon as you need to link up with someone else. But they didn't start there. Before that you can delude yourself that everyone on the enterprise network is trustable, but you'd be doing exactly that: Deluding yourself. So even a walled place, if that were practical to wish for, isn't going to help you. Instead it'll mean that the price of initial entrance for an attacker will be slightly higher and must be more targeted, but because the internal walls will be lower ("cost savings", anyone?) the worth of admission rises too.

      In that sense, this NSA guy is asking for the obvious, but banging just two neurons together for a very short time will already show you that it equally obviously isn't going to help, but will in fact lower the barrier to self-delusion. A bit like how people will take antibiotics until they feel better, then forget to finish the cure, and eventually end up with resistent bacterial strains, this isn't going to help. In security parlance, it's ultimately a recipe for a false sense of security. We call this snake oil.

      The problem empathically is not link-up for the simple reason that link-up is here to stay and will happen. The problem is that our systems aren't up to being linked up. The military learned the hard way that the really important things need to be on separate networks. And they're right. But that's not a walled garden. That's a different planet. Simply going there is a massive pain that you can only sustain with harsh internal policing that simply won't fly in a civilian setting nevermind the casual everyday world we live in. Since we can't stop that any more than we can stop an avalanche, we must change our systems so that they can be linked up.

      That is hard, but easier than maintaining entirely separate networks and preventing any and all link-ups between them in the long run. Also note that most of it is economics rather than technology that's preventing separate networks from remaining separate. The technology is peanuts in comparison.

      Quite apart from these very enterprise-specific musings, if you can't have anonymity and security both --and I don't see why not, but please do explain-- then the public internet will kill free speech. So you'd better engineer the thing so that you can have both, or we can all GTFO. And since this is the public internet we're talking about, and since now that the genie is out of the bottle it is not going to go back to being a nice comfy enterprise network again, trying to use enterprise-y "security standards" on it is indeed deluding yourself. So please put that crack pipe down carefully, sir, and excercise your right to remain silent. Thank you.

    2. Re:There is a good reason for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "People need to understand that you can EITHER have security OR the ability to be anonymous. If you want one, you're losing the other."

      Absolute nonsense. Please pull the other one, it has bells on it.

    3. Re:There is a good reason for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem with this is that there is a huge start up cost to be a credit union or a bank. Would this make becoming a financial institution become even more of an elite club?

      The last thing we need is for the larger banks to become any more entrenched then they already are. If they pay for the majority of the network (which there is probably the first avenue of funding will take place), they will probably get to dictate a huge chunk of the spec.

      We already have seen something like this with PCI where the credit card companies can dictate via judiciary oversight who gets to take credit cards over the internet. Before we set up another hurdle for the coming and going of players, we should think about this.

      I would also counter that anything that would make your banks pay a tax to the DoD so that they would have to pay security professionals less means that the security industry professionals would be out sourced from the bank to be either government contractors or full time employees. This would bode for interesting times for being a security professional. No longer are you tasked with protecting the institution, you are now tasked to protect the network as a whole, performing at the leisure of another government employee, your boss. Let's not talk about the process of getting hired either. You might have to enlist in some or fashion, or as an outside contractor your past would suffer even greater scrutiny than before.

      This would also give the government too much power to monitor comings and goings of banks without due process.

      I can't see anything good coming out of this.

    4. Re:There is a good reason for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "People need to understand that you can EITHER have security OR the ability to be anonymous. If you want one, you're losing the other."

      Actually, the people understand this surprisingly well, it's our "elected" officials (elected, appointed, and self anointed) that have issues with the concept.

      Many folks have, in fact, made the neccessary leap of logic that follows, which is simply stated:

      "If two people know it, it is NOT a secret."

      And the corollary derived from this:

      "If it connects to another system, anywhere, at anytime, for any reason, it is NOT SECURE. Period."

      In short, there simply IS no security nor is there true anonymity over a sufficient period of time. The best you can hope for is to obfuscate for enough time to make pursuing the matter counterproductive financially or otherwise.

    5. Re:There is a good reason for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      People need to understand that you can EITHER have security OR the ability to be anonymous. If you want one, you're losing the other.

      Only if you're talking in absolutes. But total absolute security or anonymity probably isn't possible anyway.

      Security and anonymity aren't mutually exclusive. In some cases security might be easier to achieve if we don't care about anonymity, and vice versa. But you're obviously presenting us with a false dichotomy, which is easily shown with an small example:
      A member of the resistance in Nazi-Germany can improve his security by remaining anonymous when when criticizing the government.

    6. Re:There is a good reason for this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was with you up until the last line. First: How do you figure? Second: What does the conclusion have to do with the rest of your comment? It's a completely unsupported assertion.

    7. Re:There is a good reason for this by kangsterizer · · Score: 1

      Erm, I thought being anonymous WAS a security?

      What about "Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power." or for the less literate of us, the paraphrasing "People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both" which can naturally just be interpreted as "People willing to trade their privacy and anonymity for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both".

      I would also add that I very well imagine, on your dream network:

      - a new bank comes around
      - new bank ping other bank and wants to trade
      - old bank denies access and kick them off the network, claiming pinging was forbidden (yeh big deal)
      - old bank keeps control, profit, power

      In case you did not know, in the new world order we live in, banks already have the complete power over the world anyway.
      Anything, *anything* which they don't have complete control of (the Internet for example) is a threat to them, as you lose control you lose power.

  38. IPX, DECnet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Somebody's confused about the difference between "an internet" and "The Internet".

    Well, they could simply run IPX or DECnet and not have to worry about attacks from the outside.

    1. Re:IPX, DECnet by lennier1 · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of the days when a bank's ATMs weren't networked the same way Joe Sixpack accesses his porn.

  39. And I want China and Spam providers off the Net by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    I have a feeling, since I want China and Spam providers off my Net, and the NSA wants us civilians off the Net we taxpayers paid for, that both of us will be disappointed when neither event occurs.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  40. Re:Fine! Let it be so! by dwye · · Score: 2, Insightful

    > and while they are at it, make it all IPV6.

    Why would the second, USA or NATO only, internet need IPV6? Remember, this is the one that YOU will never be allowed on (at least in your role as a private person), let alone Mexico, Central America, South America, Africa, the Middle East, Asia. Likewise, this is the one that toasters, your gas and water meter, the coke machine on the 7th floor of Science Hall, or any other such appliances would not need to be on. In short, this is the Internet before Al Gore ruined it by opening it up for blatant commerce, and will have that few hosts (i.e., few enough so that every admin on it would know all the top level domains, if not most of the other admins).

    > and while we're at it, maybe we can get the U.S. on the metric system.

    Obviously, you are too young to buy liquor. Try and buy a new *fifth* of bourbon (or get your parents to). The USA has been on the metric system for decades (since the yard was defined in terms of the meter) but doesn't send men with guns after people or companies who use the customary measurements instead.

  41. The Government has this already! by CherniyVolk · · Score: 2, Informative

    The government and military already have a "partitioned" inaccessible "internet". The real name of the "internet" you are using to view this site is called NIPRNET, and the "secure partitioned" one is called SIPRNET. The secured internet has been around for decades and is still used by governments around the world.

    So this proposition simply is a play on words, particularly a "partition" word, possibly for a total ground up restructuring scheme for sure. This is such a bold statement from a government official, it's baffling really.

    1. Re:The Government has this already! by blair1q · · Score: 1

      I think they want a third thing, that would connect government to corporate entities.

      Because the country is rapidly moving towards overt corporate control of government, and they don't want to have to fly to Washington to pull the strings.

  42. The war is lost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and his comments were a further sign that the Pentagon does not think the war against foreign hackers can be won.

    What bullshit speculation.

    Does the building of walls on our borders suggest we don't think the war against illegal immigrants can be won?

    And yes, "war against illegal immigrants" was meant to be every bit as retarded sounding as "war against foreign hackers" is.

  43. In other words... by straponego · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The ruling class doesn't want to be exposed to those peons who are subject to laws.

    Oh well, at least they're not calling us Morlocks yet.

  44. make another NIPRNet by 'Aikanaka · · Score: 1

    Do what the DoD's done, make another NIPRNet - but leave the Internet alone

  45. Intranet by bell.colin · · Score: 1

    It's Call an "Intranet" (F*^&ing Govt. Idiots)

  46. the reality by bender183 · · Score: 1

    The NSA wants to create the worlds largest honeypot.

  47. Stuxnet malware is 'weapon' ... by AHuxley · · Score: 1

    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2010/0921/Stuxnet-malware-is-weapon-out-to-destroy-Iran-s-Bushehr-nuclear-plant
    Stop filling your critical industries with MS products that cannot use USB without risk.
    Comments like this would many go hmmm "a precision, military-grade cyber missile deployed early last year to seek out and destroy one real-world target of high importance – a target still unknown."
    The NSA is tapped into every big telco system within and outside the USA, they have the software and hardware to track and sort most issues, voice prints ect.
    This sounds more like small next step, legal standing in some areas. Then the next.
    Do you really want your entire telco system watching for you 24/7 without a court order?
    Just to keep a cost cutting, rust belt network up?

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  48. How so? by khasim · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And a lot of useful information that exists on the Internet will be unavailable, so the disadvantages of the private net will outweigh the advantages.

    Like what?

    The only one that immediately springs to mind is email and that's simple enough to handle.

    What else would a person working on a secured network need to access?

    1. Re:How so? by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      oh, who knows, maybe things that aren't also on the same local private network?

    2. Re:How so? by blackraven14250 · · Score: 2

      Just go to another terminal which has internet access.

    3. Re:How so? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      You know, when you want to copy and paste a nuclear recipe from Wikipedia.

    4. Re:How so? by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      ahahaha well done.

    5. Re:How so? by c6gunner · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What else would a person working on a secured network need to access?

      Depends what you mean by "secured". Speaking from experience ... the military runs a separate network, but provides gateways / proxies for external net access. At one point I was tasked to work on web development for the internal network, and I found external internet access to be invaluable as a reference - especially since a lot of the programming was in ASP, and I only had experience with PHP. Without it, I would have had to create a purchase request for an "ASP for Dummies" book, get the funding approved, wait a year (ok, maybe 3 months) for it to finally arrive, and then spend 3 times as long digging through it as it took to just punch a search into google every time I wasn't sure about something.

      That's just one example - there are plenty of other legitemate reasons to have internet access on an otherwise secure network. Of course, as I said, it depends on your definition of "secured network". If we're talking about the control systems for a nuclea power plant, then yeah, it might be a good idea to have an air-gap.

  49. Bogus cruft by woboyle · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The US military and defense establishment already has its own private internet (DarpaNet), along with backbone and such. This is just, in the words of Bruce Schneier, so much security theater. The physics research community also has its own network, PhysNet, that provides high bandwidth and secure connections between major research sites and universities world-wide. Yes, they interconnect to the broader Internet, but they don't carry general Internet traffic and are quite secure against outside hackers.

    --
    Sometimes, real fast is almost as good as real-time.
    1. Re:Bogus cruft by PPH · · Score: 1

      Right. But the banking, utility and other 'critical' private industries are trying to get the government to fund one of these for them. And they've got Alexander working as their sock puppet.

      Next problem: Once the gov't builds them a shiney new network, how will they defend against the evil USB stick? When I was at Boeing, we couldn't stop the exexutives from taking their company laptops homw at night and letting Junior download illegal MP3s and warez with them. What happens the next day when daddy takes it back to work and plugs into the secure 'Net?

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  50. Why is this stuff connected to *the* internet? by mysteryvortex · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I've always said: "Why should [X] be connected to the public internet in the first place? Isn't connecting [X] to the public internet a really bad idea?"

    Where [X] is any number of things: (list not exhaustive)
    a power plant control system
    a waste water treatment plant control system
    an electrical plant control system
    an electrical substation control system
    a train station control system
    a traffic control system

    There are many things besides control systems, but for this post I am thinking of basic infrastructure. If these things need to be networked, they should be on their own private network with limited access. These problems also occurred before the internet existed. For example by connecting them to the public telephone system. (sometimes with no password, relying on the obscurity of the phone number to limit access)

    It is not just the public sector that needs to learn this, but also private industry. If it is vitally important, limit physical access to it. Private networks exist for a reason. There is no need to do anything to the public internet.

    -Mysteryvortex

    1. Re:Why is this stuff connected to *the* internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think we're missing the big picture. For security reasons everything important should be on an insulated network. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to connect anything to the public Internet from a security perspective. The reason you don't is that if you did it could be taken out. On an insulated network you control the bandwidth of all the computers on the network so in theory nothing can DDOS you. The reason you should be able to connect any of these machines to the public Internet is that if you can't you haven't dealt with the real security issues. Which are software related. That is bugs.

    2. Re:Why is this stuff connected to *the* internet? by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 1

      Probably because they want the benefits that connection to the public internet allow, like:
      remote dumping of logs
      email/pager alerts
      remote monitoring graphs

      even perhaps remote troubleshooting.

      If you take all of these computers off of the internet as you described, the only thing that could talk to them would be other computers on that intranet. And they probably don't want to limit the functionality to that degree.

      --

      --
      $tar -xvf .sig.tar
    3. Re:Why is this stuff connected to *the* internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't connecting [X] to the public internet a really bad idea?

      Why not as long as it only sends data?

    4. Re:Why is this stuff connected to *the* internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But there was a password on the telephone-connected things! It's "Joshua"!!

    5. Re:Why is this stuff connected to *the* internet? by dintech · · Score: 1

      It's all fun and games until someone connects a tethered iphone to their work PC.

    6. Re:Why is this stuff connected to *the* internet? by kangsterizer · · Score: 1

      they don't actually want a single private network, they want a network with all institutions etc in it so that they can control it.
      it means the power plant is linked to the traffic control, to the train station, etc, and also to banks and so on.
      At this stage it's so big that it's not just a private network. That's why they call it "another internet" even if it's a bit of an abuse of course (*stunt* *hint*)

      it's actually nothing to do with "vitally important" to them, it's just about control.

    7. Re:Why is this stuff connected to *the* internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You wanna know why?
      It's so all these people can "work from home" and play video games all day; it's called multitasking at it's finest.

    8. Re:Why is this stuff connected to *the* internet? by plover · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So what you're implying is the ideal system would then have control on a private network, but monitoring on a less secure network that could safely interconnect to the public Internet. Not a bad idea for a limited number of systems.

      But then you start talking about "what goes where?" Is VoIP a critical secure system? Well, if the phone rings and a voice says "It's Charlie in fire control, shut down the generators now!" you sure want to be able to trust it's not Victor in Estonia coming in over Skype. But if the phones are only on the secure side, how do you call the FBI to report a problem?

      So it sounds like a simple solution, but like with anything in security there are a metric ton of problems with even the simplest of ideas.

      --
      John
    9. Re:Why is this stuff connected to *the* internet? by thegarbz · · Score: 0, Troll

      You as like most of the people who post about plant automation do not understand quite how these systems are connected together. No plant is directly connected to the internet, Ok maybe the powerplant of idiot town is but no sane company actually connects their plant directly to the internet, and no vendor proposes such a solution. Typically there are 2 networks and 2 firewalls before you get anywhere near the internet.

      The firewall at the control system is strictly one way, in some cases not even acknowledgement packets are allowed through the other way. This allows the control system to push all it's process data onto the a network full of software and systems which analyse and store / trend this data long term. That raises the key problem. You a) don't want these systems on the process network, b) don't want this information isolated, and c) often have a requirement (corporate or legal) to actually store this information offsite anyway for disaster investigation.
      So this network is often connected to another network such as the company's IT infrastructure via another firewall.

      Connecting networks together so that something can be accessed from the internet is not a really bad idea. Having an idiot in charge of designing or managing the network topology and system is! Many of these plants are only still standing today because of the ability to quickly in realtime diagnose major problems remotely often involving experts from around the world. In most cases the risk of locking all the information up is higher than the risk of a successful attack on a carefully designed network.

    10. Re:Why is this stuff connected to *the* internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've always said: "Why should [X] be connected to the public internet in the first place? Isn't connecting [X] to the public internet a really bad idea?"

      Where [X] is any number of things: (list not exhaustive)
      a power plant control system
      a waste water treatment plant control system
      an electrical plant control system
      an electrical substation control system
      a train station control system
      a traffic control system

      There are many things besides control systems, but for this post I am thinking of basic infrastructure. If these things need to be networked, they should be on their own private network with limited access. These problems also occurred before the internet existed. For example by connecting them to the public telephone system. (sometimes with no password, relying on the obscurity of the phone number to limit access)

      It is not just the public sector that needs to learn this, but also private industry. If it is vitally important, limit physical access to it. Private networks exist for a reason. There is no need to do anything to the public internet.

      -Mysteryvortex

      +Iranian Nuclear Power Plant?

  51. weakest link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you don't secure everything, including civilian networks, then the supposedly unbreakable military networks will always be insecure even if you put them behind an impenetrable wall. The reason for this is that people working on military networks are also civilians. If I go home to my unsecured Internet access, and I get nailed by a worm targeted at people working in the military industrial complex. And, then I happen to put a file on a USB key, say an independent contractor invoice for an army project, which was infected without my knowledge. What you're left with is an invasion of that worm at the site the employee is working at, which then spread across all of their internal networks. Let's take this a step further, the worm then infects another contractor working on a project for the army, and also an unrelated naval project outside of the organization. He ends up taking this file outside of the network to another job elsewhere for the navy, and infects their network. And, so on. What you have is catastrophe.

    This is truly ancient wisdom but it applies now more than ever. A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.

  52. do it yourself- it will work for seconds by DCFusor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Until someone gets tired of having to use another machine for the "real" net and hooks up a router between them. Half an hour tops before some idiot breaks the separation model. Yes, people ARE that dumb.

    --
    Why guess when you can know? Measure!
    1. Re:do it yourself- it will work for seconds by AftanGustur · · Score: 1
      Yes but "that" dumb people aren't allowed to work in a environment that requires complete network seperation.

      Usually when you have things as network separation you also have 802.1x (and a lot of other things) and doing any monkey business with security will get you fired really quickly (and for a good reason).

      --
      echo '[q]sa[ln0=aln80~Psnlbx]16isb572CCB9AE9DB03273snlbxq' |dc
    2. Re:do it yourself- it will work for seconds by mr_mischief · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Depending on what data is at stake, you could get fired on really quickly if you refused to stand down from the terminal.

    3. Re:do it yourself- it will work for seconds by nametaken · · Score: 1

      My understanding is that our countries intelligence agencies presently do maintain private networks that are air-gapped from the internet and often use multiple terminals to work between the two.

  53. How about just moving to IPv6? by dbc · · Score: 4, Funny

    There's nobody else there anyway....

    1. Re:How about just moving to IPv6? by FurtiveGlancer · · Score: 1

      The government has been there, done that. Can you say, "EPIC FAIL?"

      --
      Invenio via vel creo
  54. It's a good idea. by elucido · · Score: 1

    For the most part those things do need to be connected to the internet on some level, it's just this sort of information isn't very secure. Even information on Google isn't secure.

  55. Whereas I do agree with the Chief by exes · · Score: 1

    I am a network administrator by the definition of it; a mere desk jockey. I haven't a mind for international affairs, but I do for network related foo. Having said that, and having not read a single reply (thusly this could be a redundancy) to this article I have to say... there are some great ideas that come from the government, but they are not always practical. This I do not think is practical. What do they want, an 802.11q VLAN? Ok... no, they want better technology... but throw VPN/IPSec out of the picture. Instead of conforming to the Internet, they seek to change it; thus asking us to conform to them. Otherwise they are misinformed and do not understand the workings of a network in the present day and need to hire better informants, or I don't know what I'm talking about.

    1. Re:Whereas I do agree with the Chief by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      It's not so much about us conforming to them. It's about them not having to conform to us. They want a separate physical network with its own fiber, its own routers and switches, and probably its own protocols. They want it to not be part of the public Internet at all, so if they get that it won't bother us a bit.

  56. seriously...... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    VPN is our bread and butter and I just wish a 4 star would listen to the techies he pays a lot of money......His desire is a network guy's dream job, cut out the red tape ands we can have AES tunnels with pfs in less than 24 hours and BGP md5 authentication with monthly updates. if you can hack that stuff we have issues...

    1. Re:seriously...... by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

      I can drop or mangle the packets if they cross my router, or redirect them to random destinations. Even though VPNs make it hard to read the data inside the packets, they don't secure the arrival of those packets.

  57. Re:"Partition"? Build separate infrastructure inst by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

    IF you control router along the path, a VPN makes it really hard for you to read the information. It makes it really easy, though, for you to just drop packets that are part of a VPN, mangle them so they are corrupted upon receipt, or record them offline for later brute-force attacks.

  58. Re:Saweet, More Government! by monkyyy · · Score: 0

    i move that Reagan was worse then Obama why u ask? cause he had the national debt/GDP start rising http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

    --
    warning pointless sig
  59. It won't work because.... by anwyn · · Score: 1

    It will be politically impossible to keep Windows off this network. (It is said that the U.S. army runs on powerpoint.) And it is not possible to secure any network using Windows computers.

  60. Oh flawed business practices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then I might actually buy them.

    I don't get the whole e-book thing. People like ditigal music because cd/tape is clunky, however holding a paperback and not caring about dropping it (a la Ipad) is one of the benefits. Similarly going to borders/used book store with a coffee and rummaging around is a leisure activity in itself, its not just "OMG MUST GET THIS BOOK ASAP!", its "woot! lazy saturday afternoon looking for a good book".

    Make them CHEAPER ($5 or less) and you will see increased sales...are they seriously worried that they will lose profits by too many people ebooking rather than print booking?

    Its the same as e-anything, STOP THINKING THAT EVERY PERSON WHO GETS A DIGITAL COPY (or pirates for that matter but thats a different issue) WOULD HAVE ACTUALLY BOUGHT A NORMAL COPY IN THE FIRST PLACE! WAKE UP MARKETING! You are NOT trying to lower print book overhead by migrating customers to digital, you are trying to sell copies YOU NEVER WOULD HAVE SOLD OTHERWISE!

    1. Re:Oh flawed business practices by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oi dingbat... the story you are looking for is not here...

  61. Grrreeeeaaaatttt idea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just the kind of political statement I would expect from high level managers with no real clue about security or available technologies.

    Security by obscurity seems to work but actually does not.

    Its ultimatly better to treat the network as hostile and just deal with it rather than trying to create a friendly network which when compromised (And it will be compromised) means total game over.

  62. Lets analyze clearly what this is about. by drolli · · Score: 1

    Imagine we would have two "Internets". On one, you could connect however you want.

    The other one is "secure(tm)" and not "secure because we use authentication and encryption and create mechanism for key exchange for those who want"

    secure(tm) is defined by certifications. Now assume a product for the military (e.g. a new fighter) jet can be only build if every part was ordered via a secure(tm) terminal and a secure(tm) network connection. Who defines secure(tm). Probably the NSA will hand out these certificates, probably with the help of consultants/service companies. Wat may even worse is that the experts recommending it now (in their time at the NSA) may hold shares in companies which help the NSA, or may go there after leaving the NSA (after all they are the "experts in secure(tm) networks" and very valuable).

    How much money do you believe can be earned in allowing companies to access the secure(tm) Internet, which then may be only way to deliver a bunch of screws which are going to be used in a tank?

    I see business opportunities and a rise in power for organizations like the NSA; i understand that they may propose this.

  63. Scapegoat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Haha, are your utilities actually connected to the internet, that scares me, maybe we shouldn't be your buddies... eek.

  64. Been done by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Basically what they want isn't the Internet, it's Aol.

  65. BT Radianz for financial industry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There already is a secure zone on the Internet for the financial industry operated by BT. It is called RadianzNet and it is available worldwide. It has been around for about ten years now, since before 911.

  66. I, for one by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1

    Welcome our new "security by stupidity" overlords.

    --
    Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  67. No more online banking and shopping... by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

    Partition all financial institutions and everybody would need to learn how to use cheques again. Partition the government institutions and tendering will revert to paper.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  68. It's called a "LAN". Doofus. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You already have one. It's called a "LAN". Doofus.

  69. Mhhhh he did not learn the lesson... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I remember a previous NSA chief that when asked about how they can secure certain computers/networks said "Simple, we bury them 100 meters in the ground, surrounded by a meter thick steel wall and more importantly we do NOT connect them to the external world."

  70. Hello LAN/MAN/insert-new-fitting-name-in-AN by kangsterizer · · Score: 1

    It's called a private network.
    Simply remove them Internet access and network them together. Sure they won't have access to internet then. That's the point tho.

  71. taxation/manipulation no representation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    as far as we can tell, there has been no (0) public minded political representation here (US) in more than 20 years, which is as long as we've been watching 'it' (the process). so, in order to to maintain taxation without representation..... they must falsify the already phony #s over&over. phewww. that's how we feel. that's US. many/most of us anyway. it's quite doubtful any invisible/imaginary 'enemy' could out do our own fauxking murder & mayhem system, both at home & around the (now under reported) shaking globe.

    they treat us as though we came from monkeys, & they ?didn't?, as evidenced by their tendency to encourage us to do/use less while they continue to suck DOWn immeasurable amounts of stuff, & feast on nubile virgins (of both sexes) in their palatial conclaves, surrounded by armies of (infinitely corrupted) hired goons. paid for by.... there you go again.

    the search (for one honest/selfless person) continues;
    google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=weather+manipulation

    google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=bush+cheney+wolfowitz+oil+rumsfeld+wmd+blair+obama+weather+authors

    meanwhile (as it may take a while longer to finish wrecking this place); the corepirate nazi illuminati is always hunting that patch of red on almost everyones' neck. if they cannot find yours (greed, fear ego etc...) then you can go starve. that's their (slippery/slimy) 'platform' now. see also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

    never a better time to consult with/trust in our ?creators?, who may not be what we were forced to (not) believe in. why would descendants of monkeys need to worship anything (except maybe the 400 lb/megaton 'gorilla')? the lights are coming up rapidly all over now. see you there? cup of primordial ooze we are/anyone?

  72. One thing all governments hate by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    their populace having unfettered access to information. Even in "America! F*ck Yeah!", they are slowly clamping down, all justified under the merkins of terrerists, pirates, pedophiles (they're everywhere and even have a mascot!), etc. Just this week, proposals were made at the UN to make providing information to a country's populace tantamount to cyberwar. And I'm sure there are elements of the US government thinking that's not a bad idea.

  73. C'mon, we know how this ends... by hardboiled.tequila · · Score: 1

    First comes the partition. Then comes the format. Time to back up teh iNternets!

  74. Even more corporate welfare by awfar · · Score: 1

    Socialize the costs, privatize the profits. Companies balk at buying bandwidth - if they get the government to dictate it a "security" problem, we will all pay for it from taxes.

  75. We already have a nationwide secure network. by wiredog · · Score: 1

    SIPRNet. Others as well.

  76. Easy way out? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Right!! Let's separate the Internet so Government and Crucial industries can take the easy way out. Let's not talk about the inadequacies or incompetency of these companies (government or not) to adequately secure/harden their own infrastructure.

  77. Silly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can't put walls in tubes!

  78. Isn't that by sir+lox+elroy · · Score: 1

    what a firewall/IDS/IPS Etc... is for to partition your local network from the "ravages" of the internet. Security 101 please.

    --
    Kosh: "Understanding is a 3 edged sword, your side, their side, the Truth."
  79. Good idea! by OhHellWithIt · · Score: 1

    I'll stay out of the NSA's internet if they'll stay out of mine.

    --
    "Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
  80. Yes. A limited-node network misses the point by snowwrestler · · Score: 1

    The whole reason the military funded research into packet-switched networks was their potential for flexibility and uptime. On 9/11 a major Verizon switch was destroyed by the collapse of the WTC, but e-mails still got where they were going. The Internet routes around damage.

    Now imagine setting up a secure, separate physical network. In order to provide the same flexibility and recoverability you will need to fund many redundant links from each node to many other nodes. Expensive!! The reason the Internet works is because each company only needs to fund a few links themselves. Then they can internetwork with everyone else's links and voila: mass redundancy and multiple paths for packets.

    The answer to secure computing in the future is mostly in software and configuration IMO.

    --
    Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
  81. Doesn't the Financial Sector Already Have This? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Doesn't the financial sector already have this? it is called the Radianz network. You have to be a financial institution or have business with financial institutions in order to connect. You need a special connection installed at your location in order to connect. I am no expert, but it sounds like they already have this. Does anyone here know anything about this network and can you confirm that this guy is asking for something that already exists?

  82. He wants this because by Culture20 · · Score: 1

    he read an article on slashdot about how once you have a network firewalled, you don't have to worry about the computers themselves.
    Pity he ready only the summary and article and didn't read any of the comments from knowledgeable geeks refuting it.

  83. Idiot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What an idiot, any "critical infrastructure" company stupid enough to allow their internal systems to be accessed through the internet deserves to crash and burn. In the current age of "made by the lowest bidder" and "security through obscurity" no electronic system can be trusted to be secure from outside tampering. If you really want to be sure that people can't hack it, DONT PUT IT ON THE INTERNET. The only information that power, water, etc companies have any business putting on the internet is equipment monitoring related, through a one way data relay to a secondary "who cares if it's hacked" computer system.

  84. You want to use 'free'??? then accept the ads by seekertom · · Score: 1

    If the govt wants to use the 'free' internet, then it has to accept the baggage that comes with it, including ads, hackers, potholes and viruses. If they want something different, it's like everyone else here suggests, build their own 'in their own image'. Damn fools to hook up critical systems to the internet anyhow, but then again, that's who we elected, and who the ones we elected selected. or... maybe it's just another exercise to see if we are so dumb we won't see this as a means to further control the citizens of planet Earth. (this IS Earth, isn't it? ooops..)