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Word Processors — One Writer's Further Retreat

ch-dickinson writes "In 2003, I posted an essay ('Word Processors: One Writer's Retreat') here about my writing experience — professional and personal — that led to a novel draft in vi(m), and I outlined reasons I chose a simple non-WYSIWYG text editor rather than a more full-featured word processor. A few novels later, in 2010 now, I decided to try a text editor that predates even vi: ed. I'd run across ed about 20 years ago, working at a software company and vaguely recalled navigation of a text file meant mentally mapping such commands as +3 and -2: ed didn't click with me then. But writing a novel draft is mule work, one sentence after another, straight ahead — no navigating the text file. The writer must get the story down and my goal is 1,000 words a day, every day, until I'm done. I have an hour to 90 minutes for this. So when I returned after two decades, I was impressed with how efficiently ed generates plain text files." Read on for the author's brief account of why he looked a few decades back in the software universe to find the right tool for the job.
Documentation for ed is available on the Internet, but I found it a great help to take Richard Gauthier's USING THE UNIX SYSTEM (1981) with me when I reported for jury duty in Portland, Oregon. His 30-page discussion of "the editor" is thorough and gave me some sense of the power of this pioneer text editor (cut & pastes, for example).

As I said, what drives my mule-like early morning routine is word count. The text editor ed has no internal word count tool (through dropping back to the command line gives, of course, wc). What I had to do was quite simple: I converted byte-counts (which ed does with each write to the file) into word equivalents. So if my style of writing runs 5.6 characters per word, then a word goal of 1,000 words is simply 5,600 bytes. Every day, I set my target byte count and once there, I quit.

In less than three months, I finished a 72,000-word novel draft and give ed credit for not slowing me down. Based on my experience writing novels with plain text editors (vim, geany, and now ed), I understand how few computing resources are needed to take manuscript composition off a typewriter and put it on a personal computer. The advantages of the latter are several, including less retyping, easier revision, and portability among different systems. Whether going from typewriter to personal computer makes for better writing I'll leave to others for comment.

What doesn't make for better writing is confusing text on demand (that daily word count that grows to a manuscript) with desktop publishing. Desktop publishing makes so many word processors into distracting choice-laden software tools. Obviously, there is a place for a manuscript as PDF file compliant with appropriate Acrobat Distiller settings, but that ends, not begins, the process. I like to think I'm not putting the cart before the horse.

So why would I recommend ed for a wordsmith? I'd say it comes down to just enough computing resources to do the job. WYSIWYG word processors have a cost and intuitively I think there's cerebral bus contention between flow of words onto the screen and keeping a handle on where the mouse arrow is (among other things).

But then perhaps I've a "less is more" bias (I have a car with nonpower steering — better road feel; I ride a fixed single-speed bike — ditto). That feeling is the sum of things there (and things left out). When I ride my fixie bike, it seems to know why I ride. Similarly, when I invoke ed, the text editor, it seems to know why I write. An illusion, sure, but also a harmony that goes with being responsible for all of it and staying focussed (without any distracting help balloons!).


One of Charlie Dickinson's novels is available for download at cetus-editons.com.

391 comments

  1. Regarding your novel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    tl;dr

    1. Re:Regarding your novel by maztuhblastah · · Score: 5, Funny

      > tl;dr

      Is that the emacs command used to indicate you're a twat?

    2. Re:Regarding your novel by FoolishOwl · · Score: 3, Funny

      Don't be silly. "tl;dr" is an Internet acronym for, "I'm stupid and lazy."

    3. Re:Regarding your novel by not-my-real-name · · Score: 2, Funny

      No. It's the command in TECO to write a novel for you. However, you need to remember to press the ESC key twice at the end of the command and not the RETURN key.

      --
      un-ALTERED reproduction and dissimination of this IMPORTANT information is ENCOURAGED
    4. Re:Regarding your novel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FWIW, "tl,dr" is the command to erase the hard drive.

  2. Next step? by eddy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I guess the next step is writing a novel using a hexeditor?

    I get using a simple editor to not get down in layout/font issues, but I don't get using ed over vim (or emacs or any other simple text editor). This story failed to sell me on the concept. Is the idea that because it's hard to navigate in ed, you're not tempted to rewrite during the first pass? Seems a bit weak, you should probably have the mental power to just not do that.

    --
    Belief is the currency of delusion.
    1. Re:Next step? by buswolley · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well why don't you just buy a pen and notebook then chump?

      --

      A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.

    2. Re:Next step? by buswolley · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well why don't you just buy a inkwell and parchment, chump?

      --

      A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.

    3. Re:Next step? by icebraining · · Score: 1

      I guess the next step is writing a novel using a hexeditor?

      Well, assuming his next novel keeps the same word count, he just needs 3136 punch cards (I'm assuming 7-bit ASCII is enough for him, Unicode is probably too advanced).

    4. Re:Next step? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Real Writers use a magnet-tipped pen to flip bits on the hdd.

    5. Re:Next step? by buswolley · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well why don't you just buy a cave and some paint, chump.

      --

      A Good Troll is better than a Bad Human.

    6. Re:Next step? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well why don't you just sit down and tell your stories to audience, chump.

    7. Re:Next step? by BrokenHalo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Seems to me this issue has been explored as thoroughly as it needs to be - by none less than Neal Stephenson in In the Beginning Was The Command Line". The man can write, and having done do on a subject close to the heart of many geeks is doubly cool.

    8. Re:Next step? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Well unless you tell your stories using grunts I think cave painting probably came before spoken language, fail.

    9. Re:Next step? by Securityemo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Bah, you're still fussing over small details.
      LET THERE BE LIGHT!

      --
      Emotions! In your brain!
    10. Re:Next step? by thrawn_aj · · Score: 1

      Agreed.

      Notepad++ works for all my technical needs (coding or general writing).

      For creative writing, I use this single exe file (357kB) free tool called Q10 (eminently portable so I use it from my usb stick). Superb writing program - opens full screen, soft font, no formatting possible and you can customize background and font colors (but that's it). All keyboard driven (no mouse functions and the mouse cursor disappears entirely) - a command list appears with F1 (intuitive - open close, save). Oh, best thing - you can choose to hear a typewritten sound when you type :). Wrote a lot of neat stuff on this thing - I can see the difference in the way I write.

    11. Re:Next step? by fishbowl · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Neil Gaiman writes his novels longhand, with a fountain pen (usually a Lamy Safari) and paper. I believe there is a lot to be said for this approach.

      I believe that as text editors go, so long as one is writing in English or at least a language in a latin character set, it's tough to beat the efficiency of VIM. That's certainly what I use, when I have a choice.

      But the overall efficiency of a fountain pen is also pretty hard to beat. (For those of you who don't know, a fountain pen requires practically no pressure in order to write, and is held at a very natural angle, and is a quite different experience from writing with a ballpoint. I have serious fatigue problems if I try to write for a long time with a ballpoint pen, these problems go away with a fountain pen.)

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    12. Re:Next step? by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      I use an inkwell (and a fountain pen), and very good (Clairefontaine) paper (not parchment.)

      Don't knock it if you haven't tried it.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    13. Re:Next step? by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This story failed to sell me on the concept. Is the idea that because it's hard to navigate in ed, you're not tempted to rewrite during the first pass? Seems a bit weak, you should probably have the mental power to just not do that.

      It failed to convince me too.

      Almost every word processor has a non-layout presentation option used for banging out text without sacrificing running spell checking, syntax, auto capitalization, or the use of outlining capability, etc.

      Self imposing a limitation making it harder to make changes mean more post production work. Consistency suffers. Continuity is the first causality. Errors creep in and persist.

      Some things should be changed at the minute you decide to make the change, or the text suffers. No amount of editing after the fact will find all of these. (Especially in technical writing, where your editor will know far less about the subject than you).

      No one who writes anything of length works in page layout view or worries about fonts, page breaks while entering the basic document. New writers may make this mistake their first time, but soon learn.

      But in technical writing, when a term or a name changes you pretty much have to find and fix that immediately, because your editor won't have a clue. In non technical writing, when it becomes important for continuity to insert some facts or flesh out a character earlier in the story to support a later story twist, you have a choice of inserting it inline, with the intent of moving it later, or finding the appropriate place, and inserting it right then when the idea is fresh. The former leads to more re-writes.

      A well developed story, or a well thought out technical outline saves far more time than simply forgoing structural edits by using self limiting tools with the hope of remembering to relocate, rewrite, or revise text later. The annotation features of word processors would actually help in these tasks if one wanted to put them off till later.

      That the writer in TFA feels the need to impose self exile from modern tools suggest more about his work habits and discipline than about word processor technology.

      There are still a few authors that write with a typewriter. Or even in long hand. Some are even successful. Not many. Fewer every day.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    14. Re:Next step? by BungaDunga · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As long as you're right handed, anyway. I looked into fountain pens and they're very difficult to use with your left hand- the ink smears unless you write in bizarre orientations.

    15. Re:Next step? by spyked · · Score: 1

      Besides, try writing a math article/book using a simple editor. No, that doesn't work quite as well as LaTeX.

    16. Re:Next step? by Surt · · Score: 1

      Out of curiosity, how are your sales?

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    17. Re:Next step? by wuzzerd · · Score: 1

      Punched cards didn't use ASCII. Most of the bazillions of them were converted to EBCIDIC when read.

    18. Re:Next step? by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm sure he'll answer you as soon as he finishes his first copy.

    19. Re:Next step? by Canazza · · Score: 1

      NaNoWriMo's next month, I might try using it to see if it increases my wordcount over last year :P

      --
      It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for being subtle.
    20. Re:Next step? by ISoldat53 · · Score: 1

      How about copy con?

    21. Re:Next step? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There is nothing simple about vim or emacs. Nothing.

    22. Re:Next step? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting
      That's because your schoolmaster was a stupid twat that didn't teach you how to use a pen properly.

      You're supposed to hold your hand /below/ the line you're just writing.

      Right-handed people should have the same ink-smearing problem when writing in arabic or hebrew. Yet that isn't the case.

    23. Re:Next step? by jimicus · · Score: 1

      What post production work? This is a novel, not a technical reference, so there's no need for things like tables and diagrams.

      I was of the understanding that most novelists don't get a huge amount of say in the post-production layout.

    24. Re:Next step? by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I use emacs with a custom Lisp function (that took me a day to get right) that creates a fullscreen frame with the text centered and 65 columns wide, and turns the colors to black on green. It's like writing on a typewriter.

      For the curious:


      (defun black-green ()
          (interactive)
          (set-background-color "black")
          (set-foreground-color "green")
          (set-face-foreground 'mode-line "gray15")
          (set-face-background 'mode-line "black")
          (set-face-foreground 'fringe "gray15")
          (set-face-background 'fringe "black"))

      (defun write-room ()
          (interactive)
          (let ((wr (make-frame '((minibuffer . 12)
                                        (vertical-scroll-bars . nil)
                                        (left-fringe . 315); no fringe
                                        (right-fringe . 315)
                                        (fringe-mode . none)
                                        (background-mode . dark)
                                        (background-color . "black")
                                        (foreground-color . "green")
                                        (cursor-color . "green")
                                        (border-width . 0)
                                        (border-color . "black"); should be unnecessary
                                        (internal-border-width . 64); whitespace!
                                        (cursor-type . box)
                                        (menu-bar-lines . 0)
                                        (tool-bar-lines . 0)
                                        (mode-line-format . nil)
                                        (fullscreen . fullboth)
                                        (unsplittable . t)))))
              (select-frame wr)
              (text-mode)
              (set-fill-column 64)
              (black-green)
              (select-frame (car (cdr (frame-list))))
              (delete-frame)
              ))

    25. Re:Next step? by eldorel · · Score: 2, Funny

      Then the sun is gods version of a binary word processor?

      Guess we should be glad he never switched to dvorak...

    26. Re:Next step? by icebike · · Score: 1

      My bad...

      By post production (probably the wrong words) I meant production of the basic text, not publishing tasks.

      After you type "The End", you realize your work has only begun, and now you need several passes thru the text for readability, continuity, and basic editing. Then your editor gets to bleed all over it. Lather, Rinse Repeat.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    27. Re:Next step? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Notepad?

    28. Re:Next step? by Hatta · · Score: 2

      Almost every word processor has a non-layout presentation option used for banging out text without sacrificing running spell checking, syntax, auto capitalization, or the use of outlining capability, etc

      With a little creativity you can do any of that with command line tools. There's aspell for spelling, and regular expressions for formatting & navigating.

      Self imposing a limitation making it harder to make changes mean more post production work. Consistency suffers. Continuity is the first causality. Errors creep in and persist.

      A document that is processed by machine rather than by hand from the start will mean less post production work. Consistency can be ensured with simple pattern matching.

      But in technical writing, when a term or a name changes you pretty much have to find and fix that immediately, because your editor won't have a clue.

      No one who writes anything of length works in page layout view or worries about fonts, page breaks while entering the basic document. New writers may make this mistake their first time, but soon learn.

      Then there's absolutely no reason to use a WYSIWYG editor.

      In non technical writing, when it becomes important for continuity to insert some facts or flesh out a character earlier in the story to support a later story twist, you have a choice of inserting it inline, with the intent of moving it later, or finding the appropriate place, and inserting it right then when the idea is fresh. The former leads to more re-writes.

      Is there some reason you think 'ed' is an append only editor?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    29. Re:Next step? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well why don't you just buy a reed and squid, chump?

    30. Re:Next step? by mean+pun · · Score: 1

      Or whistle their text into a modem.

    31. Re:Next step? by tverbeek · · Score: 1

      I would seriously suggest a typewriter as the next step. There's no temptation whatsoever to go back and fiddle with bits you've already typed (as there is with a line editor that has commands for selecting previously-typed lines). It's just straight-ahead typing. Some of the greatest works of literature were written on one. Then when you're done with the first draft, run the pages through a scanner with OCR, and you have a text file suitable for revisions.

      And oh yeah: the battery never needs recharging.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    32. Re:Next step? by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      How strange. I never realized there was a correct way to write a novel other than to wind up with a good story.

    33. Re:Next step? by X0563511 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Everything everyone does is not always motivated by profit...

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    34. Re:Next step? by ch-dickinson · · Score: 1

      My experience with ed is that for producing a text file, it has the brutal efficiency of a one-way thumb screw. When writing a novel draft, there is no point in even checking the spelling of a word if that keeps one from getting down the immediacy of the story. BTW, Ray Bradbury originally suggested 1,000 words a day. He suggested quantity first and quality will follow. I think that is true of much human endeavor.

    35. Re:Next step? by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      You mean green on black?

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    36. Re:Next step? by tverbeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There is evidence that hominids developed language prior to the oldest known cave paintings. When you consider that modern primates have demonstrated a limited ability to learn language, but haven't show any aptitude for representational art, it seems likely that language developed before art in hominids.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    37. Re:Next step? by MaskedSlacker · · Score: 1

      Doh. Yes.

    38. Re:Next step? by tverbeek · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's spelled "EBCDIC" (Extended Binary Coded Decimal Interchange Code... yes I knew that without looking it up), but you are correct: Hollerith cards usually used EBCDIC. IBM didn't start using that upstart ASCII code until the Personal Computer in the 1980s.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    39. Re:Next step? by Sique · · Score: 2, Informative

      But I write LaTeX with a simple text editor.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    40. Re:Next step? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, this is where I wish /. had a "Confused/WTF" moderation tag.

      "Yeah, try traveling to work in a go-cart. No, that doesn't work quite as well as a magazine subscription."

    41. Re:Next step? by Sir_Lewk · · Score: 2, Informative

      With a little creativity you can do any of that with command line tools. There's aspell for spelling, and regular expressions for formatting & navigating.

      Vim has had real-time interactive spell-checking for a while now (:set spell), and navigation is generally where Vi editors are seen to particularly excel :)

      --
      "linux is just DOS with a UNIX like syntax" -- Galactic Dominator (944134)
    42. Re:Next step? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very interesting and I'd be very happy to hear more about the subject but you can't really classify the "language" that animal use (are you talking about the 5 or so sound that a monkey can make to signal things to it's peer?) to the "language" necessary to tell a story. In that optic could you tell us which evolved first: complex language or paintings?

    43. Re:Next step? by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

      Then you should try writing it with a text editor that supports color coding, like Emacs with AUC-TeX for examle (s/Emacs/$EDITOR/g).

    44. Re:Next step? by vtcodger · · Score: 3, Informative

      For that matter, Hollerith cards were around long before EBCDIC -- which, as I recall -- appeared in general use as part of the OS/360 horror-show. Hollerith potentially allowed 80 characters per card. But anyone with half a brain settled for 72 data columns and eight sequencing columns (cols 73-80) that could be used to mechanically sort the deck back into order after it was dropped.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    45. Re:Next step? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh? You can do this in a plain text editor, including with LaTeX (also with troff/groff or Lout).

    46. Re:Next step? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just write backwards, you're brain can cope and it doesnt takes a lot of practice.

    47. Re:Next step? by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      No crap. I can see someone using a simple word processor like Notepad or Metapad to just whip it off without messing with formatting, but good Lord! what's next, he gives us an article on how he wrote his book using home made clay pigment and cave walls? We have these tools for a reason and that is so the machine does the grunt work and you do the creative. Word and Writer are popular (and Word makes MSFT a ton of $$$) because they fricking work and work well. what is the point of hamstringing yourself? Hell you might as well dig out an old Osbourne and write it in TexStar. Now THAT would be real "news for nerds".

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    48. Re:Next step? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This can be partially fixed by using a fine point pen that lays down a smaller amount of ink, and decent paper that takes the ink immediately rather than letting it sit on the surface for a bit before it soaks in. I'm a lefty and use a 1957 Pelikan 140 and it works fine for me. I still get some ink on my hand but I don't care, it washes off, and the pleasure of using the pen more than offsets the modest mess. Ink stained wretch I am. Many lefties already write in one of your "bizarre orientations" regardless what they're writing with and have no trouble at all. It's an adaptation to having to push a pencil rather than pull it. I've had lots of that damn No. 2 lead on my palm in public school. At least ink won't smear once it's dry, not so that damn No. 2 lead.

    49. Re:Next step? by CAIMLAS · · Score: 1

      As someone who has written a couple books (er, attempting to write a couple books) I can certainly see the value - particularly to someone with limited time and who is not a 'professional' author.

      A story is a wholly linear thing; it's not like the common structure of a Word document or progmatic functions, which can be broken up into non-sequential components. If he were to write a novel in that fashion ("this function references this, that function references that, so I'll write them in that order - but in reverse") he'd never get the book done. He'd sit down for that hour, write for 20 minutes, and then start rearranging shit "because it doesn't work".

      An author will work his ass off to get something - anything - written, just to get it done. He's got to push through about 100k-120k words to result in 60-80k of 'finished book' words. You then take that, and begin mixing, editing, and rearranging the material, possibly rewriting some of it in the process to make it fit. (At least, that's one way that people write).

      Many books are made like movies - on the cutting table. I can see vi, or ed, being useful for this kind of thing.

      --
      ~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
    50. Re:Next step? by tkdog · · Score: 1

      Yes. I do technical writing using both Framemaker and, gasp, Word. With either of them, or most any other writing program, you can push the distracting bits out of the way. Granted, they use a lot more resources than vi. But Word in full screen mode, with spell check off if that's your thing, is pretty much a blank sheet of paper. Well, one does have to wrestle the auto-magic self correcting stuff under control, and I don't like the new ribbon. Oh, and of course if I it wasn't for the foul overlords in IT at work I'd use Open Office. :) I do have to a plug Framemaker though. For large documents the ability to smoothly break everything out by chapters and then apply all your formatting is wonderful.

    51. Re:Next step? by INeededALogin · · Score: 1

      Word works well for writing a novel? Why would someone want to obfuscate their writing with word presentation features? The author is selling his words, not his justification and bold'n skills.

    52. Re:Next step? by sjames · · Score: 1

      Many would rather keep their stream of consciousness going than back up and correct a spelling error. Often they're not interested in syntax or capitalization either. They're writing a first draft, not the final copy.

      I prefer to do my spell checking after I have written a good bit. I can more easily correct syntax after the fact once I have the idea out of my head and into the file.

      To me, ed is going too far, but vim is certainly more appropriate for writing the text than any "word processor"

    53. Re:Next step? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The writer probably used an electronic typewriter at one point in his career. Some of them used to have a one line editing window where you could made changes before printing the line. Additionally, a typewriter makes you think in larger pieces of text at a time as you type-read cycle goes at a granularity of a page. The one line editing capability would be then only to fix trivial typos.

    54. Re:Next step? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "This crud is called HTML (HyperText Markup Language) and it is basically a very simple programming language" ...

      Errrrr....

    55. Re:Next step? by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      01001000011001010111100100100001
      00100000
      010101110110100001100001011101000010011101110011
      00100000
      0111011101110010011011110110111001100111
      00100000
      01110111011010010111010001101000
      00100000
      0111000001101100011000010110100101101110
      00100000
      01100010011010010110111001100001011100100111100100111111

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    56. Re:Next step? by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Because he has to sell it to publishers, which if they are anything like the rest of the business world (and I haven't seen any indication to believe otherwise) then most likely they are made up of PHBs which understand word docs and not much else? You'd be surprised how many times I've dealt with business where the standard answer is "put it in a word doc". Don't ask me why, hell if I know, but they habla word docs and not much else. Maybe PDF, although even that I wouldn't guarantee 100%.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    57. Re:Next step? by triple.eh · · Score: 2, Interesting

      At first I was aligned with your thinking, however the more I thought about it the more the guy made sense.

      By using a basic, bare bones non-WYSIWYG editor and just doing a brain dump of prose in vi(m) or ed you can simply let your mind flow and not let it worry about how the document looks and get side tracked with formatting. Once you're done the draft, load it up in your favourite modern word processor and start formatting.

      I've actually done this writing documentation: brain dump first, format later, and have found it to be much quicker. As an added bonus, the formatting exercise actually doubled as a good proof read step too.

    58. Re:Next step? by a_hanso · · Score: 1

      The writer has a point.

      Using a typewriter/pen and paper usually results in a more unbroken flow because there is no mental backtracking. Once you write a sentence or a logical block of text (say, a scene or a dialog) you've psychologically committed it until you're ready for the first edit. The problem with word processors is that what you've written a minute ago is right up there at the top of the the screen, taunting you to come back and tweak it / perfect it / double check it. A few writers do not have this problem, but most of the perfectionists do.

      The same effect can be achieved with a text editor that write-protects a block of text once you've written it, until you begin an editing session.

    59. Re:Next step? by Vastad · · Score: 1

      Oh to have perfect recall! I would have provided a link.
      There was a BBC radio show called Forum that interviewed someone using MRI to study the relationship between the written language and the brain. He refines your statement by saying that oral communication not only developed very early, but that we are also genetically hardwired to have it. Every known human community - no matter how primitive or isolated - has a spoken language and an oral tradition.

      This was indirectly supported when the MRIs showed not one but two parts of the brain involved in the activity of reading. It was a part of the visual cortex that dealt with pattern-finding that then communicated with the part of the brain that dealt with oral communication. That link does not exist unless the owner of the brain is born and raised in a literate society. In an illiterate subject, those two parts of the brain do not talk each other when presented with writing.

      You see, there isn't actually a part of the brain that deals with "reading". It's actually 2 parts of the brain - one for finding patterns in the environment or nature and the other for creating meaningful noises with syntax - co-opted into something neither was actually designed for.

      The concept of an alphabet, the written word or a formalized system of pictoglyphs that actually communicate more than just sacred dates or gods is in comparison, not at all as inevitable. It took ages before the "cornstalk slashes on clay" of Sumeria actually became something more.

    60. Re:Next step? by Compaqt · · Score: 1

      I've heard some people say fountain pens are the best for writing for long stretches. Any recommendations?

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    61. Re:Next step? by Vastad · · Score: 1

      Found the reference in case anyone was interested: It was BBC's Forum podcast on 30th August 2010 and the study was by French neuroscientist Stanislas Duran (not 100% about the spelling of his name)

    62. Re:Next step? by somersault · · Score: 1

      Keyboards are currently the best for "long stretches". I get hand cramp from just a couple of minutes of handwriting these days. I can't imagine handwriting a whole book would be good for your hand. Not that keyboards are perfect either, of course - especially the touchscreen keyboard I'm using to write this!

      --
      which is totally what she said
    63. Re:Next step? by somersault · · Score: 1

      Maybe you should have learned how to write forwards first; the word you were wanting there was "your".

      --
      which is totally what she said
    64. Re:Next step? by ubuwalker31 · · Score: 1

      >I guess the next step is writing a novel using a hexeditor?

      I attempt (almost always unsuccessfully) to write a novel for National Novel Writing Month (NaNoWriMo.org) every November.

      Of course, the perfect text editor to use for NaNoWriMo: Nano!

      I find it lightweight, fully featured and easy to use. It can easily call up the "spell" spellchecker - but it doesn't give suggestions. It also doesn't give a word count.

      So when I need more advanced features, I fire up Open Office. http://www.afterthedeadline.com/ has a great grammar checker as well.

      I also keep an encrypted diary on Linux using Lifeograph.

      I'm very happy that the opensource movement has plenty of free tools for writers!

    65. Re:Next step? by Riktov · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not just smearing; you're also pushing the pen "into" the paper with nearly every horizontal stroke, so it digs in. Especially with cursive, where every letter is connected by a horizontal ligature.

      And if holding the pen above the line is incorrect, apparently the vast majority of teachers are doing it wrong.

    66. Re:Next step? by Compaqt · · Score: 1

      The problem is modern, $99 typewriters *do* have a little editing screen. Even if you're not using that, they also have backspace with correction.

      I find myself slipping into bad typing habits and just allowing myself to make errors, secure in the knowledge that I can just backspace-correct.

      One other note is that I really like the rhythm and feedback of a typewriter, even the cheap ones. It's a big bam! when you hit a key. It's really nice when you hit a stride.
       

      --
      I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    67. Re:Next step? by Raenex · · Score: 1

      But the overall efficiency of a fountain pen is also pretty hard to beat.

      You've got to be kidding me. Any good typist can beat the pants off somebody writing in longhand.

    68. Re:Next step? by Surt · · Score: 1

      The story is all about how writing this crazy way was superior, if it's a purely subjective opinion, I don't think it qualifies as news of any kind.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    69. Re:Next step? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But that's bloody expensive, mate! My knife is not bid enough to handle the cost even though it's a knife.

    70. Re:Next step? by tverbeek · · Score: 1

      It demonstrates that they have the neurological capacity for language, if not the vocal talent for it. But even though an ape easily has the manual dexterity to paint an image of an object, they evidently don't have the neurological capacity for it.

      It seems to me that it would take less time for them to evolve more vocal subtlety and start to take advantage of it (a change with an obvious survival benefit), than it would to develop the forebrain capacity required to translate an object into an artistic abstraction of it.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    71. Re:Next step? by tverbeek · · Score: 1

      So buy an old manual. I have one that's older than my parents. They need reinking, but they're built to last.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    72. Re:Next step? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      No, all of the American writing handbooks used for the last fifty years have assumed a right handed student using a fountain pen. They don't work with left handed students using a pencil. But instead of changing the instruction material, they blame the student or the teacher.

      There's nothing that shows how ossified the American education system is better than writing instruction. It's laughably bad from the very first step, and everyone who has studied has known it's provably, objectively wrong for the last 50 years. But we don't do anything about it, because that's how we've always done it.

    73. Re:Next step? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe he doesn't need to communicate with an audience and is just fine telling his stories to himself? Kind of like how you seem to be...

    74. Re:Next step? by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Absolutely. I can type 60-80 words per minute when I'm in a groove. Can't write at half that speed, and the legibility of longhand is probably a quarter of what I get from typing. Of course with creative writing it's often the brain that is the bottleneck, and output speed may not matter quite so much. However, I know I've had multiple occasions writing longhand where I couldn't keep up and actually forgot what I was saying before getting it down on paper; that simply doesn't happen to me when typing.

    75. Re:Next step? by spyked · · Score: 1

      Well, in this case, you're using more than just a text editor, i.e. a typesetting system (LaTeX).

    76. Re:Next step? by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      seriously - a movie trying to get people to sympathise with Mark Zuckerberg? WTF..

      I realize this is off topic, but I presume you haven't actually seen the movie. If you have, then I'd say your opinion of it is close to 180 degrees opposite from most people's. (I think I don't think he comes off quite as bad as most people think, but I still think he definitely comes out as the bad guy... Yes, the bad guy with billions of dollars.)

    77. Re:Next step? by somersault · · Score: 1

      That's good then. The ad made it looks like they were glorifying it all a bit too much. The movie isn't out here in the UK yet, I do want to see it now as I've heard it's actually quite well made, etc.

      --
      which is totally what she said
  3. Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by The+Living+Fractal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Even though I'm struggling to understand why you went this route (I'm leaning towards you're a hopeless romantic, or worse), let's put that aside for a moment and focus simply on your statement about the mouse cursor. I know of no text editing/authoring/publishing software in existence that requires use of the mouse. Not a single one. You could have easily not even connected a mouse to the computer and proceeded to write with any program out there. The fact that you chose one so old and out of normal use speaks more to it being old and out of normal use, and to your romanticizing or somehow aggrandizing that facet, than the fact that it doesn't have a mouse cursor in your way.

    Look, I get it, you want to write without distractions. That's fine. All I'm saying is there is something else going on here behind the scenes...

    --
    I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
    1. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know of no text editing/authoring/publishing software in existence that requires use of the mouse.

      both sam and acme require a mouse

    2. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I very much agree with the OP was talking too. I do most of my writing in a text editor. This is mainly because of the necessity of portability and lack of distraction. There are some better common open formats such as RTF and HTML. My bigger issue with them is that many editor's don't support these formats well. You can say there are some good WYSIWYG HTML editors but everyone I have seen so far adds lots of odd HTML tags and CSS entries. I'm looking for something that just makes

      ,... , , ,, tags for formatting. After all of the writing is done, then it is easy to go add more decorative CSS and HTML tags to get really what you want. Another benefit of just using straight TXT or HTML is that if you use a code versioning system for storage, it makes it very easy for tracking changes.

    3. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by Balinares · · Score: 3, Informative

      > Even though I'm struggling to understand why you went this route (I'm leaning towards you're a hopeless romantic, or worse)

      I think you would be surprised.

      The thing about writing is, it's hard. You get this brief bright spark of a plot idea that you've got to write, and then it's hour upon hour upon hour of churning word after word after fuck it I'll go check out Slashdot. The initial excitation lasts perhaps all of 10 minutes before you start asking yourself what the hell you're doing. And at this point anything -- anything -- becomes a tempting distraction. A simple, no-nonsense editor is a boon. You set it full screen and keep trudging along. I like vim; dark color schemes are easier on the eye, you can jump between sentences at the press of a key, and if you're at all the nerdy type a plug-in like ScmFrontEnd or Fugitive lets you version your work on the fly.

      There's a reason why George R. R. Martin notoriously uses Wordstar on MS-DOS to this day, you know. :)

      --

      -- B.
      This sig does in fact not have the property it claims not to have.
    4. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Its more about the lack of a mouse option than it is not requiring the mouse. No mouse, often means no visual menus, meaning more vertical space. You're left only with your words and nothing else. Its hard to do that with MS Word. Its more a case of correlation, rather than causation. Lack of mouse correlates to a less cluttered text editor, although not necessarily the cause of it.

    5. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok who's the idiot that allows raw HTML tags in posts...

    6. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      I know of no text editing/authoring/publishing software in existence that requires use of the mouse.

      I bought and used my first mouse in 1991. (I was enrolled in an AutoCAD class, and the rodent was a cheap option for use at home).

      However, I had managed to survive perfectly well from the mid-'70s without such a crutch. My favourite text editor for many years was TECO, which had variants among many of the mini/mainframe machines of the day, and later became the foundation of EMACS.

      TECO was (and still is) a blazingly fast program, ideally suited to quick-and-dirty scripted editing of flat files in a production environment. Some of my colleagues used to complain, however, of its memory usage: the memory involved in remembering all those cryptic commands like "zj-1d" (jump to the end of a file and delete the last character). Wimps.

    7. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by loufoque · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There's a reason why George R. R. Martin notoriously uses Wordstar on MS-DOS to this day, you know. :)

      Maybe that's why his next book is five years late?

    8. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by ezzzD55J · · Score: 1

      Ok who's the idiot that allows raw HTML tags in posts...

      You, by selecting html formatted ;-)

    9. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by aliddell · · Score: 1

      Damn, beat me to it.

      --
      What do you think, sirs?
    10. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by Omestes · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Writers are also know for their idiosyncratic ways. Stephen King basically made his Underwood type-writer a religious artifact, and later his Mac. Neil Stephenson does everything long hand using a pen and ink. I just read a bio on an author who swore off electric lights while writing (I think it was Joe Haldeman). A lot of times this choice has more to do with superstition than rationality. You manage to write your first successful novel with a fountain pen on velum; why risk killing your muse by using anything else?

      Using older and simpler means of writing doesn't really matter in itself, since many authors DO use Word, or whatnot and manage to churn out text.

      When I briefly tried my hand at writing I got fixed into using a certain method of outlining, using certain tools. I had to do it this way, while fully knowing it was less efficient than probably any other way known to man. The actual application for writing didn't matter much to me, since I can ignore pretty much any feature (do I really need advanced formating for a draft?). The actual preparation phase was a pain though, since I kept trying different software to keep track of things. I probably spent more time playing with software than actually preparation. If I found a method that worked, I would probably stick with it forever, even if the technology became so archaic that I had to go kill and skin animals and forage my own parts.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    11. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by aGuyNamedJoe · · Score: 1

      Don't bother arguing with the part of his misstatement that wasn't his point. You have to keep track of the input cursor (which he called the mouse arrow).

      One of the problems I'm having as I type with a trackpad between my palms and emacs keystrokes is having the cursor suddenly jump somewhere else. Probably at least one cause is hitting the control/meta key when I meant to hit the shift key and then the letter causes the leaping cursor -- but whatever the cause, it totally disrupts the flow of text from my fingers when I notice it.

      I suspect ed's not that much better than vi(m) for his purposes, but I will attest to ed's greatness. (As an ed then emacs user, I only ever learned to drive vi by making heavy use to the colon to escape to ed).

    12. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1
      --
      Palm trees and 8
    13. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by Astronomerguy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      On my Win7 PC, I use MS Word and set it to full screen. The menus completely disappear and all I have is a blank page ready for me to start typing in, no mouse required. If I don't want any formatting, I set plain text as my default file type. As for loading time, It's ready to go about 6 seconds after I click the app's icon. Having a word count tool and a global replace option sitting in the background is handy in case I need them. To each their own.

    14. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Different AC here. We don't get that option.

    15. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by Tracy+Reed · · Score: 1

      How do you navigate text paragraph by paragraph in MS Word? Short of wasting massive time by holding down the up or down arrow key, of course. I suspect that is what he meant by requiring a mouse.

    16. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by ch-dickinson · · Score: 1

      I'd reply by asserting all writers have to reach their own accomodation with personal computers as tools for their work. I think I have reasons for my choice/exploration & think it's not yearning for romantic authenticity, but freedom from distraction. Time magazine recently said this about Jonathan Franzen's use of a Dell laptop. Again, note the individual choices he made. Some insist he is quirky & cranky & worse, but he did get the book done. 'He uses a heavy, obsolete Dell laptop from which he has scoured any trace of hearts and solitaire, down to the level of the operating system. Because Franzen believes you can't write serious fiction on a computer that's connected to the Internet, he not only removed the Dell's wireless card but also permanently blocked its Ethernet port. "What you have to do," he explains, "is you plug in an Ethernet cable with superglue, and then you saw off the little head of it."' -- Time

    17. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Which is great, until maintenance time comes around...

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    18. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by macshit · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ed is a fine editor (the fact that it's "old and out of normal use" don't change that), if barebones.

      It's notable because it:

      1. Makes it somewhat cumbersome to do lots of little micro-edits or twiddling. If you're going to change something, it's often easier to replace the text, typing the replacement in again.
      2. Doesn't keep the document all up in your face -- the past is the past, you want to see it, it's there, but there's no active display of the document cooing "edit me... edit me... just a little"

      The process of writing using a medium where it's really easy to tweak the text is very different than when one can't. I've noticed many cases where I've simply tweaked a text to death -- there end up being fewer "small mistakes", but the cohesiveness and large scale structure suffer. Moreover, the urge to tweak can be a real time sink.

      If I had a will of iron, maybe I could just force myself not to tweak ... but I don't have a will of iron; despite my best intentions, I often succumb to temptation (to my later chagrin). And most people don't. So I can easily understand how a professional writer, for whom these points are even more important, may want to use some light artificial restrictions on his working environment in order to focus on what's really important to him.

      So I don't think it's really fair to assume "there's something else going on here behind the scenes". Maybe this guy just wants to get on with his craft and cut out the crap that he's found to interfere with it. It's probably the same reasons many authors write on paper, despite the inconveniences (sure some of them may do it because they have a fountain-pen fetish, but I don't think it's reasonable to assume that must be the reason).

      [As an aside -- I've noticed that many people (not saying you do, just the general vibe of the thread, and similar threads) often seem almost personally offended by others explicitly choosing to not use some popular modern technology... and while such choices may sometimes have silly reasons ("I don't watch TV, haha I'm so intellectual!"), I think the responses are often just as banal or even scary...]

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    19. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by jabelli · · Score: 1

      Ctrl-up and ctrl-down. Works also in OO.o.

    20. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by The+Living+Fractal · · Score: 1

      I would never argue against your assertion. Hell, using Windows XP, for example, while open to a network connection is a risk in and of itself. Even if you aren't using the networking it could still be hacked. You could lose everything on the drive. Sure, the odds are tiny, but it's possible.

      I do however find it interesting how writers need certain very specific environments in order to be maximally creative.

      I might liken it to an athlete who thinks they need to never, ever wash their lucky armband which they were wearing when they scored that amazing goal. You might think that is just silly superstition... and it might be. But it also might be something more, perhaps a placebo type effect that has measurable effect on the outcome of the person's actions.

      I don't really know, and I'm hardly being scientific here. Just some observations...

      --
      I do not respond to cowards. Especially anonymous ones.
    21. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by martin-boundary · · Score: 1

      You can turn the trackpad off, you know (google it). Plug in a cheap USB mouse and your fingers will thank you in time for not getting RSI, because you're no longer subconciously avoiding the area right below the space key.

    22. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by thogard · · Score: 1

      Ex is even better than ed... and is included in your favourite vi(m) editor as well.

      An exercise to teach you to write better code is write it in cat. cat >test1.c and just type away. How many attempt does it take to do a simple program like counting to 1000? It should only take 1. How about more complex problems? The exercise can be extended so that you can then write comments for later editing such as /* remove the above junk */. I wouldn't recomened it as a way of writing real code but it gave me an idea of how much I depend on using the editor when thinking about the problem a little better would have been a better solution.

      I've found the best way to describe vi's primary mode to new users is to imagine that you've been given a document with tradition edit marks.

      Why do people use :wq in vi/ex? :x has done the same thing for 30+ years and :x! doesn't have the problem that :wq! parses the wrong way on some versions.

    23. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by RocketRabbit · · Score: 1

      Well I for one do not watch TV. It is a magic spell that keeps you from more important things.

      People who do not watch TV tend to read and think. Those that do, tend not to. There are exceptions of course, but that is the long and short of it.

    24. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by steelfood · · Score: 1

      Much of it has to do with mood and comfort. It's about the environment (comfortable or uncomfortable) that's most conducive for writing. It's about getting the state of mind in which the words just jump from brain to paper in one long, unbreaking train, and maintaining it for the duration necessary.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    25. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by macshit · · Score: 1

      It was just an example :)

      I'm certainly not saying TV watching is good or people are bad for not watching it, and indeed I'd say not watching much TV is a generally a good thing.

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    26. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by Raenex · · Score: 1

      People who do not watch TV tend to read and think. Those that do, tend not to. There are exceptions of course, but that is the long and short of it.

      What a ridiculous generalization. I say this as somebody who doesn't watch TV.

    27. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      You've got a crappy laptop if you need to turn off the trackpad. The keyboard is naturally a little off center (space key), the trackpad is naturally centered and a little lowered in the shell, so as to avoid accidental mousing. An actual mouse, especially a cheap one will get you CTS.

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
    28. Re:Ok...But let's not blame the mouse. by Quirkz · · Score: 1
      Actually as distractions go, I think the editor is the least of it. What I regret, continually, is having internet access on the same machine I'm trying to use to do my creative writing. Once, when under a serious deadline, I actually got out little post-its and had to place them over the three separate locations on my screen where clocks were visible, because I kept checking them reflexively and then staring at the minutes ticking away. There would be a fantastic argument for an internet-less netbook, or some kind of laptop that's simply a dedicated word processor, where the distractions are limited. Having access to formatting tools is a far less serious issue (at least for me) -- I'm just not going to get tied up messing with bold, italic, different fonts, etc.

      I do kind of like some of the bare-bones editors because they seem fast, streamlined, and don't have file bloat, but it's not quite about the distractions. For this year's National Novel Writing Month I'm dabbling with Scrivener, because it's got extra tools designed to help writers, like the ability to attach notes and reference documents to a project (I'm always forgetting everything, down to character names) and the ability to rearrange the order of chapters. Arguably a lot of the rearranging should come after the first draft, but if you can put it into the system the first time it saves later work converting the documents, and like I said, the reference documents stored in the same place can be very handy.

  4. I don't think this is a universal condition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry, but going to a more and more primitive editor? Maybe that works for this person. There are authors who like using old-time typewriters. There are authors who like writing things out by hand, then transcribing them. There's authors out there who voice things and have somebody else type them up.

    We each have different ways of working. Some of us might come up with our best ideas while working, or while lying in bed. Some of us might find staring at the CLI is less conducive than the GUI for our work.

    Who knows? Do what you like, if it's working with plain text, fine. If it's working with a more convention word processor go with it.

    Besides most work for word processors probably isn't novel composition, it's probably more letters and articles and whatnot than novels.

    Just saying.

  5. ed is too fancy by Nethead · · Score: 5, Funny

    real men use

    cat /dev/stdin >> story.txt

    --
    -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    1. Re:ed is too fancy by machine321 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Bruce Schneier uses

      cat /dev/arandom >> story.txt

    2. Re:ed is too fancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Bruce Schneier uses

      cat /dev/arandom >> story.txt

      Don't use this. It might lead to plagiarizing Shakespeare.

    3. Re:ed is too fancy by Nyder · · Score: 1

      real men use

      cat /dev/stdin >> story.txt

      I always like copy con whatever.txt

      But ya, i sucked, I used dos.

      --
      Be seeing you...
    4. Re:ed is too fancy by Nethead · · Score: 1

      copy con was still better than trying to deal with edlin.

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    5. Re:ed is too fancy by meteficha · · Score: 1
      real men use

      cat /dev/stdin >> story.pdf

    6. Re:ed is too fancy by hoytak · · Score: 2, Funny

      Or, as likely, Rick Astley lyrics, which might be worse.

      --
      Does having a witty signature really indicate normality?
    7. Re:ed is too fancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny
      Ah, encryption and ed make a fun combination.

      "[Automatic decryption] can save your ass if you accidentally use the "x" command (encrypt the file) that is in some versions of ed, thinking that you were expecting to use the "x" command (invoke the mini-screen editor) that is in other versions of ed. Of course, you don't notice until it is too late. You hit a bunch of keys at random to see why the system seems to have hung (you don't realize that the system has turned off echo so that you can type your secret encryption key), but after you hit carriage-return, the editor saves your work normally again, so you shrug and return to work.... Then much later you write out the file and exit, not realizing until you try to use the file again that it was written out encrypted--and that you have no chance of ever reproducing the random password you unknowningly entered by banging on the keyboard. I've seen people try for hours to bang the keyboard in the exact same way as the first time because that's the only hope they have of getting their file back. It doesn't occur to these people that crypt is so easy to break."

      Footnote, page 252, Unix Hater's Handbook. And people wonder why "ed" is unpopular...

    8. Re:ed is too fancy by TarMil · · Score: 1

      No need for external programs such as cat, you can do it all within zsh.

      $ >story.txt <<EOF

    9. Re:ed is too fancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Bruce Schneier uses

      cat /dev/arandom >> story.txt

      Don't use this. It might lead to plagiarizing Shakespeare.

      Only if your machine came with the optional infinite number of monkeys entropy source

    10. Re:ed is too fancy by dargaud · · Score: 1

      real men use

      cat /dev/stdin >> story.txt

      If you aren't a verbose writer, you only need cat >> story.txt

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
    11. Re:ed is too fancy by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Ahem.

      $ cat > /file/to/write "EOF"
      Type your shit
      over as many
      lines as you
      want.

      When you are
      done, simply type
      EOF

      $

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    12. Re:ed is too fancy by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      fucking slashdot. There's a '<<' between 'write' and '"EOF"'

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    13. Re:ed is too fancy by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>Footnote, page 252, Unix Hater's Handbook. And people wonder why "ed" is unpopular...

      Ed???

      Real men use 'e'.

    14. Re:ed is too fancy by tverbeek · · Score: 1

      Edlin rocked. You could pipe commands into it. You could call it from batch files. It wasn't just a text editor; it was MacGuyverific! 15-20 years ago I had a boss who required all of his support staff to know edlin. The reason: regardless of what version of MS-DOS a machine was running (even the fancy new ones with the full-screen editor), edlin was always available. If you needed to edit autoexec.bat or config.sys, or Windows wouldn't run and you needed to fix win.ini, edlin could be your only option.

      --
      http://alternatives.rzero.com/
    15. Re:ed is too fancy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      real men use
      cat /dev/stdin >> story.txt

      Pffft..

      # cat > /dev/hdb

    16. Re:ed is too fancy by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

      Is there a version of cat that doesn't read /dev/stdin by default?

    17. Re:ed is too fancy by bigato · · Score: 1

      that's for fags. real men use:

      cat /dev/stdin >> book.pdf

    18. Re:ed is too fancy by BobNET · · Score: 1

      Don't use this. It might lead to plagiarizing Shakespeare.

      No, do it! We might be able to reconstruct the text of Love's Labour's Won!

    19. Re:ed is too fancy by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      that's for fags. real men use:

      cat /dev/stdin >> book.pdf

      real men type it straight onto the bash prompt and get the lines out of .bash_history when it's done.

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    20. Re:ed is too fancy by WillKemp · · Score: 1

      cat >> story.txt

      does the same thing with fewer keystrokes.

    21. Re:ed is too fancy by TapeCutter · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I recall reading that someone tried this with a finite number of monkeys, they got a few pages covered mainly in the letter 'S' before the alpha male attacked the keyboard with a rock the others finished it off by pissing and shitting on it. The conclusion was that monkeys have intentions, they cannot be used as random input devices.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    22. Re:ed is too fancy by Nethead · · Score: 1

      real men call the computer on the phone and whistle:

      dd if=/dev/modem of=story.txt

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
    23. Re:ed is too fancy by hatten · · Score: 1
      But only after issuing

      stty -echo

    24. Re:ed is too fancy by atisss · · Score: 1

      yup, my cat doesn't know how to read

  6. Obvious... by alder · · Score: 1

    perhaps I've a "less is more" bias

    What about

    cat < >novel.txt

    then?

  7. Word processors are becoming page layout tools! by whizbang77045 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The writer has a point. Words processors have continued to have more and more tools, making them harder and harder to use. Look at Microsloth Word: it keeps getting more and more like a page layout program, and less and less like a tool to get text in the computer.

    When all you're trying to do is get words down on paper, all you really need is a simple, repeat, simple, text editor. Anything beyond that can get in the way, and detract from the creative process.

    That's my 25 cents worth, reminding everyone as always that 25 cents won't buy what it once would.

    1. Re:Word processors are becoming page layout tools! by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      But then why go to all the trouble of finding the perfect text editing software (i.e. a piece of software that has absolutely no features)? Why not just type it up in Word and ignore the fonts and other settings? Or just use what came with your computer (Gedit, Notepad, Wordpad, whatever)...?

      Personally, I like Notepad++... don't think I've ever been distracted by all the options, as I only ever actually grab the mouse when I realize I actually need it.

    2. Re:Word processors are becoming page layout tools! by crazycrazy · · Score: 1

      Wow, last time I started Word, it plopped me right on page one with a blinking cursor. If all you want to do is type in text and keep moving forward, word is as easy to use as any other text entry tool. Just start typing and ignore the menus. And for a writer the built in auto-save can be a lifesaver when the power goes out.

    3. Re:Word processors are becoming page layout tools! by PPH · · Score: 3, Funny

      The last time I used Word, 'plop' was very descriptive of its behavior as well.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:Word processors are becoming page layout tools! by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Word is a word processor, if you want to just get text into a computer, you've got better choices. Both vi and emacs would suffice. As would notepad, wordpad or any number of other text editors.

      Word has for quite some time now been about WYSIWYG which involves a whole lot more than just getting text into a computer.

      Perhaps I'm missing something, but ever since sometime in the mid 90s, a word processor has been used for page layout as well. Much of the complaining about Word is the failure to properly lay the pages out in a way that works between word processors.

    5. Re:Word processors are becoming page layout tools! by ILuvRamen · · Score: 1

      I use Word to write all my stuff. The one thing that pisses me off is a scrolling graphics error where it fails to update the text and gets stuck and how it has a limit to how far the grammer and spelling check can go. It's like 400 pages but still, definitely annoying to split my longest stories into 2+ files. But for the find and replace and advanced features and word counts and page arrangement for page count based quartering, I can't imagine using anything more primitive. It would slow me down soooooo much! I think the only reason anyone would use something so ancient is because they aren't properly trained in more modern methods.

      --
      Google's Super Secret Search Algorithm: SELECT @search_results FROM internet WHERE @search_results = 'good'
    6. Re:Word processors are becoming page layout tools! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      25 cents is worth more than you. As soon as you went the "Microsloth" route, I knew what a worthless slashfag you are.

    7. Re:Word processors are becoming page layout tools! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ed have plenty of features and is a really great editor. If I didn't use vi, I'd be interested in changing to ed. Yes, it takes some time to learn, as does vi, but compared to typing in notepad, the difference is huge. Notepad is inefficient.

    8. Re:Word processors are becoming page layout tools! by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      ...the trouble of finding the perfect text editing software (i.e. a piece of software that has absolutely no features)?

      Maybe you have never tried a real text editor. Spend a couple of weeks learning the intricacies of emacs or vi[m] if you must, then try again. You won't need a mouse, and you will be working with an editor vastly superior (at processing text) to any Microsoft or Apple product.

      Once your text is in place, you can use whatever you want (TeX/LaTeX, OOo, MSWord or whatever) to do the formatting. Getting the input right in the first place is the important thing,

    9. Re:Word processors are becoming page layout tools! by gandhi_2 · · Score: 1

      You can find proof of this in ANY elementary school computer lab. 30 kids, told to write a anything, will invariably waste 90 percent of their time screwing with everything but the a-z keys.

    10. Re:Word processors are becoming page layout tools! by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      "The writer has a point. Words processors have continued to have more and more tools, making them harder and harder to use. "

      Yep, writers can't use it, only readers, readers who read the fucking manual!

    11. Re:Word processors are becoming page layout tools! by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      Now that I fully understand - but for the author, it seemed like the perfect text editor is one without any of the features that make a text editor good in your or my eyes... THAT is what I don't understand :p

    12. Re:Word processors are becoming page layout tools! by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      Ah, okay. From the summary and other comments, it sounded like Ed was more or less Notepad without a menu bar ;)

    13. Re:Word processors are becoming page layout tools! by WWWWolf · · Score: 1

      Look at Microsloth Word: it keeps getting more and more like a page layout program, and less and less like a tool to get text in the computer.

      Exactly my sentiments. WYSIWYG word processors put too much emphasis on the formatting.

      When I type, all I really need is *emphasis*, some "correct"---dare I say, as I mess it up anyway---typography, and paragraphs. I'd preferrably need a way to cross out parts of the text without deleting it (marking it as "to be rewritten"). When I type text, I just want to see white text on blue, the way WordPerfect intended. When I print out the drafts, they should look like drafts -- monospace, doublespaced -- and not have any darn "highly polished looks". I don't need to tweak the formatting while I type text. I have LaTeX for that.

      I have been looking for a perfect workflow myself - because no program is good for everything. Currently, I type stuff with TextRoom (a full-screen writer-oriented text editor that can save as pseudo-HTML or plain text - I just use plain text with Markdown). I use OpenOffice.org for further editing of text, spell/grammar check, typography and proofreading. I produce printable drafts and final PDFs with LaTeX and hand-massage HTML for online releases. My only real wish is that TextRoom and all other tools would just toss around ODF files so I wouldn't need to convert stuff between editing. It would be awesome if the metadata would be preserved, too, so I could see the editing clock too =)

    14. Re:Word processors are becoming page layout tools! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ed is not notepad without a menu bar. Ed is a text editor were the text is not visible.

      Ed is pretty hard to learn to use. It is very useful, when on a terminal that only supports line editing. I would say that ed is not in general the best tool for the purpose mentioned in the summary. Vim, pico and nano would be more fitted for that purpose.

      In old days, ed was a very efficient tool, since typing out unnecessary lines of text could waste plenty of time and paper.

    15. Re:Word processors are becoming page layout tools! by alcourt · · Score: 1

      Anyone who does serious editing today on a word processor should learn about stylesheets. You may have heard of them with web pages. You create a stylesheet that matches your stylistic demands. Mine are 12 pt Times New Roman, double space, with a specific header (Name of work, comma, my name, then right justified the page number. To make life really easy on me, I've set up styles for section breaks and chapter breaks.

      I open a word processor, that stylesheet is my default. I start typing. Chapters auto-number themselves so if I go back and add a new chapter (I sometimes will realize that a section break needs to be a chapter break later), I have a much easier time.

      Learn to turn off those autotype and autocorrect options that you don't want. The method is fundamentally the same for only the past ten or so years. I do this with OO.o, MS Word, any editor I'm going to use.

      My biggest complaint about OO.o is the impossibility of getting a good high contrast selection color scheme. I'm even able to set the screen color to what I want and save it.

      If I change my mind in a document on layout, I change the stylesheet, not the hard formatting. This isn't rocket science, and the switch from hard formatting to stylesheet based formatting should be natural to anyone who has tried to use CSS on web pages.

      --
      "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend unto the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire
    16. Re:Word processors are becoming page layout tools! by BrokenHalo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Fair enough. Personally, I would like something between the two extremes - in other words, something exactly like WordPerfect 5.1. That was a stupendous program, and I have never since found its equal. Later versions of WP were just a horrible amalgam of the most simplistic early efforts combined with an atrocious re-interpretation of MSWord's UI.

  8. ed knows all by daremonai · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Similarly, when I invoke ed, the text editor, it seems to know why I write.

    Or, in my case, why I shouldn't write. Whenever I try to type anything into ed, it simply responds:

    ?

    posing the question it knows I cannot answer.

    1. Re:ed knows all by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      You are not thinking like an ed user. Clearly, the right thing is to first type "i", then type your text, then enter a line with just a period on it.

      The one redeeming quality of ed is the documentation. The man page is nice and short and describes everything you need to know.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    2. Re:ed knows all by dargaud · · Score: 1

      I guess if you really want a primitive editor, you can try ed in backwards compatibility mode [-G option]. A backward ed, think about it. Shivers.

      --
      Non-Linux Penguins ?
  9. What you see isn't what you'll get anyway by jfengel · · Score: 2, Informative

    Not if you're going to see it in print, that is. A writer writes the words. An editor and publisher will have it put into the final form.

    I got to review Jef Raskin's book in its manuscript form, and "manuscript" is very close to what it was. One of the early human-computer interface experts, who helped develop the Macintosh, created his book in double-spaced Courier, designed to be proof-read, not published. Drawings were sketched; a real artist created what ended up in the book.

    I don't know what he used, and he'd probably find "ed" to be a little ridiculous: it's a line editor, not suited to blocks of text. He probably used something WYSIWYG. But didn't bother with any formatting, and that saved him a lot of time and care.

    1. Re:What you see isn't what you'll get anyway by hedwards · · Score: 1

      That's an excellent point, and the reason why there are software programs dedicated to manuscripts. A good system will provide for diffs and revision control. Which you can do outside the program, but it's probably better to have it integrated.

    2. Re:What you see isn't what you'll get anyway by pz · · Score: 1

      This is exactly why I have used emacs / TeX for over 25 years now to typeset countless papers, about 10 sets of course notes, and three books, in addition to hundreds of thousands of lines of code. It is an excellent set of tools that allows you to focus on the issues at hand: content when content is the only thing that matters, format when that is important, and an appropriate mixture in between. Emacs, unlike vi and its derivatives, allows more-or-less straight editing in an intuitive manner (OK, I haven't used vi in a while, maybe they've included support for arrow-key navigation by now, but still I find the idea of a mode-based editor to be deeply broken). Using ed to edit anything other than an .ini file or apply an automated patch is intentionally being a peon ("ooh, I'm cool, I wrote my latest manuscript in yak blood on flattened paper bags, look how much I suffer for my art") since it is in no way an easy task. You might as well be cat-ing directly into a file, as many people have suggested in other replies. It is an exercise in masochism, not writing, unless the self-imposed barrier to ease of use is to force careful wordsmithing before committing to text. Even then, writing longhand with a nice pen and high-quality paper is going to be more pleasurable.

      A mark of a skilled professional is one who uses the appropriate tool for the job. Using ed to write a manuscript falls short of that ideal.

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    3. Re:What you see isn't what you'll get anyway by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      . A good system will provide for diffs and revision control. Which you can do outside the program, but it's probably better to have it integrated.

      So he should have just typed his stuff into a wiki.

      Seriously, any old text editor would do fine. The problem isn't the editor, it's sitting down and writing 1,000 words every day. It's not that hard to produce 1,000 - 2000 words in a couple of hours, if you're enthusiastic about what you're writing about, and you really won't care what you use.

    4. Re:What you see isn't what you'll get anyway by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      Emacs, unlike vi and its derivatives, allows more-or-less straight editing in an intuitive manner (OK, I haven't used vi in a while, maybe they've included support for arrow-key navigation by now, but still I find the idea of a mode-based editor to be deeply broken).

      I just tried vim, and it does support arrow-key navigation. I also prefer emacs to vi.

    5. Re:What you see isn't what you'll get anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not if you're going to see it in print, that is. A writer writes the words. An editor and publisher will have it put into the final form.

      I got to review Jef Raskin's book in its manuscript form, and "manuscript" is very close to what it was. One of the early human-computer interface experts, who helped develop the Macintosh, created his book in double-spaced Courier, designed to be proof-read, not published. Drawings were sketched; a real artist created what ended up in the book.

      I don't know what he used, and he'd probably find "ed" to be a little ridiculous: it's a line editor, not suited to blocks of text. He probably used something WYSIWYG. But didn't bother with any formatting, and that saved him a lot of time and care.

      That's a crucial point. You may make suggestions in your manuscript as to what will be bold, italicized, headlined, in small caps, or whatever, but your work, if published, will be edited and typeset by professionals who know what they're doing. You should only use as much formatting as you yourself need to keep track of your ideas, or make them understandable by your editor.

    6. Re:What you see isn't what you'll get anyway by jfengel · · Score: 1

      One of the advantages of a pure text editor, which has no drawing functions, is that you're not tempted to try.

      Unlike using one of the office products, which have rudimentary drawing tools that are worse than just sketching it on the back of a napkin. Even if that means putting the napkin itself into a presentation for your boss. Even simply org charts or flow charts will result in a bewildering uneditable mess, and nearly any text change will cause some elements to move in different ways than others.

      Maybe somebody out there has mastered those tools, but I find them utterly useless, and time spent on supposedly trivial items has wasted more of my productivity than anything except the Internet.

    7. Re:What you see isn't what you'll get anyway by El_Oscuro · · Score: 1

      I have yet to see a single version of VI/VIM which did not properly support arrow keys, and I have been using both since 1992. The main issue here is that not all terminals support them, so they have the other keys so they can be run on them too.

      --
      "Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
    8. Re:What you see isn't what you'll get anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are many (Word/Open Office/Scrivener) templates for what you describe. When you're writing you just use the template, which is usually 12pt Courier and double spaced lines, and any emphasis is done with underlines. This is no style choice, this is standard for most publishers.

      As for drafting medium of choice: who cares? As long as you can deliver the document in Word or Open Office format when your deadline is up, your publisher could give a rats ass whether you used a type writer or a quill to write your draft. Unless, of course, you happen to be a Stephen King or Cormac McCarthy who have the option of delivering their manuscripts in any form they want because of the giant revenue streams for the publisher.

      Mr. Dickinson seems to be self-published where there is no preference in format and there are no looming deadlines, so he can get away with using vi.

    9. Re:What you see isn't what you'll get anyway by pz · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I use .DOC format files (read: MS Word) when forced to because of collaborative efforts. I have yet to experience a document that did not have some problems with the included figures (except those without any figures). When the figures were drawn using the tools built-in to the word processor, they universally fail horribly at some point along the multi-cycle editing process and must be recreated from scratch in a proper drawing system. Even the crop and scale tools built-in to word processors have a high chance of failure or incompatibility.

      The moral of the story: Use the right tool for the job.

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
  10. Whatever works for you by travisb828 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Its all about personal taste, and I happen to like little red squiggly lines under most of my words.

    1. Re:Whatever Works For You by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1, Informative

      I've always hated Word and its ilk because the program is constantly fighting how I want to work. I spend more time fighting with the program than I do creating new content.

      I think people psychologically like that. Because, otherwise, you'd just hit the preferences and turn off whatever Auto-whatever was "fighting" you... and in 10 seconds, you'd never, ever have the problem again.

      So people who make this complaint either:
      1) Don't know how to work the Settings
      2) Like to see it has a conflict, and purposefully don't change the Settings (why else would you use the word "fighting"?)

    2. Re:Whatever Works For You by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      1. I find your 10 seconds highly optimistic.
      2. Once you've hit 20 things that requires you to dig in the extremely messy settings of any major modern word processor, you will either go completely bananas, or just wish you had used a normal editor in the first place.
    3. Re:Whatever Works For You by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So turn off autocorrect and spell check? What else are these programs doing to you that seems to be second-guessing what you're doing?

    4. Re:Whatever Works For You by flynt · · Score: 1

      You sound like you'd benefit highly from Emacs org-mode (http://orgmode.org), which functions not only as a day planner and TODO manager, but a plain text authoring system. You can export to many targets, including both LaTeX and HTML. If you haven't seen it yet, definitely check it out, the community is great and the project is growing daily. The latest big inclusion is the ability to embed executable source code for literate programming.

  11. Cat is way simpler than a hexeditior. by spaceturtle · · Score: 2, Funny

    Hex editors are too bloated. He should use cat instead (not the bloated monstrosity that is GNU cat of course).

    1. Re:Cat is way simpler than a hexeditior. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hex editors are too bloated. He should use cat instead (not the bloated monstrosity that is GNU cat of course).

      Are you entirely sure this is ethical? I tried this once and was sued by the ASPCA.

  12. Real men pipe the input in using cat by 00_NOP · · Score: 1

    that is all

  13. The essence of hipsterism: by lxs · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Use the most backward impractical tool available and declare it superior.

    cf. fixie bikes and Holga cameras.

    1. Re:The essence of hipsterism: by colmore · · Score: 1

      In defense: Holga cameras take really interesting looking pictures, and fixie bikes are good for...

      um...

      bike polo i guess.

      --
      In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
    2. Re:The essence of hipsterism: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fixie bikes are good for fitness. You end up doing lots more work as you've got to use your legs to reduce speed as well. My father rides one he put together from an old mountain bike when feels like being a masochist. While riding it he wears a stylish high visibility vest and lycra cycling getup. He's 63.

      How anyone could think that's fashionable is beyond me...

    3. Re:The essence of hipsterism: by cats-paw · · Score: 1

      like all things it depends on what you're trying to do.

      re: fixies. they are simpler and less costly. so if you don't have hills to climb, they're a great option. also, in rainy nasty whether you burn through chains and cog sets in a hurry.

      fixie has a nice thick chain and simply tossing the chain ring and cog (just one) is relatively inexpensive.

      so superior ? not really, but certainly practical. remember, as simple as possible, but no simpler.

      --
      Absolute statements are never true
    4. Re:The essence of hipsterism: by JackDW · · Score: 2, Funny

      Counter-example: Macintosh computers. A hipster is only permitted to be without his Mac if he is carrying at least one iPhone. On a Mac, the only backwards, impractical tool in common use is iTunes.

      --
      You're an immobile computer, remember?
    5. Re:The essence of hipsterism: by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      No crap. This guy sounds like a total douchebag. He has some psychological quirk about "simplicity" that he's trying to parlay into some kind of popular movement or something? Look, if having a boldface button stops you from writing, that just means you're a shitty writer.

      BTW, the reason nobody rides fixed-gear bikes or drives cars without power steering is *safety*. This hipster douchebag is going to kill himself or somebody else sooner or later.

    6. Re:The essence of hipsterism: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Use the most backward impractical tool available and declare it superior.

      If you're writing - I mean actually writing and not creating some kind of reader experience - then having to choose among 100 fonts, a dozen font sizes, select margins and columns, define pagination, etc is all wasted effort. Picking words to boldface or italicize wastes time and distracts from getting words on the page.

      Maybe you've noticed that your PowerPoint is never done until just as the deadline arrives? Too many things to tweak, adjust, and perfect, none of which fundamentally improve the presentation. As long as the options exist, one feels compelled to get them just right. Too many options and choices make for an impractical tool.

    7. Re:The essence of hipsterism: by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      Except that Vim is a very current too, not backward at all, and it is eminently practical, and efficient. Since I use it constantly, I guess I fail to see the problem other people have with it.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    8. Re:The essence of hipsterism: by jjohnson · · Score: 1

      choose among 100 fonts, a dozen font sizes, select margins and columns, define pagination, etc is all wasted effort. Picking words to boldface or italicize wastes time and distracts from getting words on the page.

      If that's what's keeping you from writing, then the problem isn't the available featureset, it's the writer's discipline. If he wasn't procrastinating by playing with all the bells and whistles in Word, he'd be petting the cat and getting another cup of coffee.

      If you start Word and just start typing and accept all the very reasonable default settings, there's no reason you need to adjust anything in order to write. There are even manuscript templates freely available that provide defaults already set to the industry norm for manuscript submission.

      --
      Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
    9. Re:The essence of hipsterism: by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      so if you don't have hills to climb, they're a great option. also, in rainy nasty whether you burn through chains and cog sets in a hurry.

      What's crazy is that they're insanely popular/fashionable here in San Francisco, where we have nothing but hills and good weather all year round.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    10. Re:The essence of hipsterism: by DeadboltX · · Score: 1

      Unix text editors are becoming hip? Damn, I guess I have to make the move to notepad now.

    11. Re:The essence of hipsterism: by Garridan · · Score: 1

      I've been riding fixed since before it was cool. They're great fun. Some people do it for image, or to prove that they're tough -- and there is some credit due, in hilly Seattle -- but I do it because I enjoy it.

      Also, fixed-gear bikes are superior in some ways. They really suck in others. Mine is lighter than my geared bikes, and the mechanical efficiency is higher because the system is simpler -- so I can accelerate off the line a lot faster, making it preferable in stop-and-go traffic*. Every moving part is machined or cast out of a fairly large piece of steel -- no springs, no plastic, so it takes a lot less maintenance and replacement of fidgety bits. But... I can't put fenders on it, so it's a bummer in the rain. It sucks to go down steep hills (I've gone almost 60mph on my geared bike, and my knees would explode if I went over 40 on my fixed).

      *pet peeve: I stop at lights and stop signs, and signal before I turn or change lanes. When I drive, I honk and yell at cyclists who blow through lights when I've got the right of way.

    12. Re:The essence of hipsterism: by hcdejong · · Score: 2, Informative

      Mine is lighter than my geared bikes, and the mechanical efficiency is higher because the system is simpler -- so I can accelerate off the line a lot faster, making it preferable in stop-and-go traffic*.

      A lot faster than what? Someone who has left his bike in top gear when coming to a stop, and can't change down while stopped because he has derailleur gears? Acceleration depends on gearing more than on the last 10% of mechanical efficiency.

      Also, my mind boggles at the thought of not having brakes. When you rely on pedal resistance to brake, you have maybe 20% of the braking torque available compared to any set of halfdecent brakes. That's not just inconvenient, IMO it borders on the criminally negligent.

    13. Re:The essence of hipsterism: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoa there, Tex! Don't be so quick to rip on non-standard types of bikes...

      I'll grant that true fixies aren't really useful on the road (they're really better suited for doing stunts and tricks), but single-speed bikes are great. I ride one myself, and what little downsides there are (a somewhat lower maximum speed I could theoretically achieve) are more than made up for by the increased reliability and simplicity (I don't know about you, but I hate having to shift gears). There's also the fact that power transmission is more efficient, but that's a minor point.

      Of course, you didn't talk about single-speeds, so maybe I've just created a strawman. :)

      That said - the most backward impractical tool available would be a dandy horse and not a fixie, certainly?

    14. Re:The essence of hipsterism: by sgt101 · · Score: 1

      People ride fixies because the chain doesn't come off.

      If you are depending on your bike for a living - for example because you are a messenger - then this is a positive thing.

      However, for everyone else, it is not.

      --
      --------------------------------------------- "In the end, we're all just water and old stars."
    15. Re:The essence of hipsterism: by Garridan · · Score: 1

      A lot faster than what?

      As I said, my geared bike. And I've got a front brake, which I use in emergency situations, and going down steep hills.

    16. Re:The essence of hipsterism: by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

      "You are not superior to me just because your bicycle has 20 fewer speeds than mine" - planned retort to hipster if necessary.

      I like riding, but I never felt the need to wear purple Lyrca and crap like that while doing so. Normal street clothes (I go for shorts anyway, so no pant leg getting caught in chain)

      --
      I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
    17. Re:The essence of hipsterism: by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

      Yes, high gear number is great for blasting down straightaways, but a real pain to go up hills or start up from in [or both!], especially when I found I needed to slow down without time to downshift.

      I quickly came to like pressure brakes. First time I got pressure brakes, though, I crashed while instinctively trying the backpedal I was used to. :P

      --
      I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
    18. Re:The essence of hipsterism: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Use the most backward impractical tool available and declare it superior.

      cf. fixie bikes and Holga cameras.

      It's called a Fixed-Gear bicycle. There is no such thing as a fixie.

    19. Re:The essence of hipsterism: by slim · · Score: 1

      How can a fixie be "faster" at accelerating than a multi-geared bike? Just put the geared bike into the gear that corresponds most closely to your fixie's gearing.

    20. Re:The essence of hipsterism: by Garridan · · Score: 1

      1) Reduced mass of the machine means more acceleration per unit force.

      2) No sloppy derailleur -- geared bikes tend to jump gears when you push them too hard.

  14. i remember your post! by jimjamjoh · · Score: 1

    I remember reading this post those many years ago and nodding my head in agreement as I read along. In college, I drafted all of my essays in Vim before importing them to OO.o for pdf generation. It's a wonderful tool for the job of cranking out text, but you're right that the ability to read what you've already written is distracting and antithetical to the goal of simply pumping out text, which is the novelist's first charge.

    I think you've stumbled onto a very interesting use of ed here, though I daresay you're likely an army of one amongst your peers for your choose of authoring tools. :)

    1. Re:i remember your post! by ch-dickinson · · Score: 1

      Thanks! I wouldn't suggest another writer out of a 1,000 would try my approach. But the idea that there is a balance point of diminishing utility once a writer goes to personal computers & increasingly full-featured software environment is for me something to think about. As I mentioned in a reply to another post Jonathan Franzen has pretty much stripped his Dell laptop bare for similar reasons -- get rid of the distractions!

  15. Isn't this what a typewriter is for? by colmore · · Score: 1

    Writing forward with no editing or deletion, while still getting to read what you wrote yesterday. They still make new typewriters and a no-frills manual model goes for like $90.

    But unlikes some sourpusses around here, I appreciate the appeal of using weird tools to do common tasks. So if ed is really your thing, ignore the haters.

    --
    In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
    1. Re:Isn't this what a typewriter is for? by haus · · Score: 1

      Although, assuming that one does want to edit at some time in the future, having the output in a text file vice a pile of loose leaf pages, is a step in the right direction.

    2. Re:Isn't this what a typewriter is for? by weav · · Score: 1

      Recapitulating some earlier posters in this topic: when I was at Javasoft, a co-worker of mine once asked Gosling what his favorite editor was and he answered, "cat."

      Whatever works for ya...

    3. Re:Isn't this what a typewriter is for? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.usbtypewriter.com/

  16. Use LaTex by F.Minusia · · Score: 1, Insightful

    If you need to avoid all the manual formatting and want great quality, then you should prefer LaTeX or a suitable *TeX.

    --
    Prof(Miss) A Mani CU, ASL, AMS, ISRS, CLC, CMS, IEEE HomePage: http://www.logicamani.in Blog: http://logicamani.blogs
    1. Re:Use LaTex by westlake · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you need to avoid all the manual formatting and want great quality, then you should prefer LaTeX or a suitable *TeX.

      Or you could sent your manuscript out to a publisher who has professionals working full time in typography, layout, design and illustration.

    2. Re:Use LaTex by N7DR · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Or you could sent your manuscript out to a publisher who has professionals working full time in typography, layout, design and illustration.

      Rather to my surprise, the last decade has seen a marked deterioration in the number and quality of professional designers and typographers used by most publishing houses (both large and small). I some time ago came to the conclusion that someone with skills in TeX (and, probably more importantly, an understanding of the minutiæ of typesetting) can do a much better job than most publishing houses these days.

      That is not to say that publishers don't provide other useful services (principally editing and marketing).

    3. Re:Use LaTex by JackDW · · Score: 1

      Some confusion here. Latex is the next layer up. With Latex you have to use a text editor to write your source code, and then you "compile" it with Latex to get a PDF or whatever. You can use whatever you want as your text editor, even "ed".

      I use "vim" for writing Latex source code. I know it's not the intention of the author, but his writing has challenged me to ask why I am still using "vim" when much better tools exist for writing documents (and programs). How can I laugh at his use of "ed", "the standard Unix editor" that dates back to the very beginning of Unix, when I too am using ancient software?

      To be honest, I think it's habit now. I've learned to use "vim" well, and when I use Word and Visual Studio, the extra power tools that I get are not enough to make up for the lack of vim-ishness.

      --
      You're an immobile computer, remember?
    4. Re:Use LaTex by iris-n · · Score: 1

      [citation needed]

      Also, wouldn't the publishing house just remove your *TeX markup and typeset it their way?

      --
      entropy happens
    5. Re:Use LaTex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reality in publishing is that no matter how much work you do on your end, it's all going to be stripped and formatted by people over whom you have no control who specialize in typesetting.

      It's possible to front-load some of the typesetting where you have no idea ahead of time what the size of the page will be, how it will be bound, what typefaces will be available, what kind of paper will be used, just to scratch the surface. Even with that knowledge, it's extremely hard (sometimes impossible) to get the layout right in a word processor. This is the area where LaTeX is extremely useful. I have a couple of publishing examples from real life that were hard to deliver in TeX, but would have been impossible in Word.

    6. Re:Use LaTex by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      Usually, yes, though in scientific publishing it's getting more common to retain at least large chunks of your *TeX formatting. It's extremely expensive and error-prone to retype/retypeset technical manuscripts in a way that doesn't introduce errors, and many publishing houses are finding it easier to ask authors for TeX manuscripts than to pay quality technical typesetters. In mathematics in particular it's become more or less required for authors to provide TeX manuscripts, which are used as the basis for the final book, since publishers no longer retain much in the way of mathematical typesetting experts on staff. Same with figures--- you used to include data tables and a rough sketch of a proposed figure, and the publisher would hire a technical artist to produce the final graph. These days you're often expected to provide your own "camera-ready" figure in matplotlib or similar.

    7. Re:Use LaTex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LaTeX isn't the only (or even the best) alternative. Troff/Groff or Lout are also good choices.

    8. Re:Use LaTex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TeX is a format, not an editor. You can write LaTeX documents using Word or Notepad or Vim or Emacs or Ed.

    9. Re:Use LaTex by alcourt · · Score: 1

      Publishers provide editing services? After speaking with more than a couple authors who have been published by various different publishers and types of work (novels, poetry, essays, articles, short stories, etc.), one of the few constants is there is no editor who will help correct your work's minor mistakes. If it isn't publication ready, don't send it in for review. I'm told a number of years ago, things were different and an editor might actually accept a work with some minor updates required, and work on getting those changes made. Even looking at novels published in the 1950s, I often see a wealth of obvious typos and wrong word choices.

      --
      "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend unto the death your right to say it." -- Voltaire
    10. Re:Use LaTex by steelfood · · Score: 1

      Most publishing companies are dinosaurs. Even if they seem to not be, internally, they're still very old fashioned.

      The discord appears when they move to new technology for the sake of moving to new technology. Management's only experience is with the mainstream and business-oriented products like Office, so that's the kind of people they hire to do their work. Something as obscure (in the business world) as TeX won't even hit the radar without very, very technically capable managers. And as I said, publishing companies are dinosaurs.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
  17. MS Notepad by mehrotra.akash · · Score: 1

    Dont you get all the lack of functionality in Notepad itself. use the edit command in DOS, if you dont want to use the mouse at all. Whats the point of using an editior like VI where even the backspace key does not work as it should?, doesnt it just add more overhead? Isnt it simpler to ise the arrow keys for navigation and backspace for backspace,etc.. I believe gedit does the same for Linux Pls enlighten me..

    1. Re:MS Notepad by peragrin · · Score: 1

      notepad has size limitations forget what it is but I have hit it on several occasions.

      though for command line editing I always preferred nano. the interface commands make sense when dealing in a mix UI environment and you don't want to learn the OS of emacs.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    2. Re:MS Notepad by gratuitous_arp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why people use vim, in 2 minutes:

      The popular vi clones (like vim) allow users to perform advanced editing (not just tapping arrow keys to move around), and it does it with the keyboard alone -- and mostly keys that are easy to press (like :w to save, instead of Alt+F, S). This means you do not waste time moving one hand back and forth from the mouse -- it *removes* this overhead. If you try to use something like Word with the keyboard only, you'll be using some very awkward key combinations. Not so with vim.

      That covers the "advanced" GUI editors. Now: ed, MS edit, Notepad, etc., don't even try to implement the vast number of features you get with vim that let you quickly edit through the command line. As Bram Moolenaar likes to say, once the commands are "in your fingers" -- so that it's second nature -- your editing speed improves immensely. Particularly for writing code, but it is true for any other use as well.

      If you are not interested in quick, efficient editing, then there is no reason to use vim. Ed or Notepad or Word will yield the same result as vim, it will just take you longer to do it (assuming you know how to use both editors efficiently). Most users get hung up because vim is a modal editor, so they ditch it and go back to gedit. For the rest of us who put the time in to learn how to use it effectively, it pays off in a big way.

      See also:

      Bram's Seven habits of effective text editing: http://www.moolenaar.net/habits.html (this is in presentation form somewhere on youtube, too)
      Vim's about page: http://www.vim.org/about.php

    3. Re:MS Notepad by Fallingcow · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Especially if, as he says, he's not going to be traveling around the text very much, VI is exactly the wrong tool. It's designed to let you move around a ton without leaving your normal typing position, and to re-arrange bits of text quickly. This ability comes at the price of a painful learning curve and a non-intuitive interface for doing simple shit like moving over a few characters to replace a letter or two in the last word.

      If you're just typing text but want few distractions, something like Nano/Pico or one of those newer editors that run in the graphical OS but turn the whole screen black and show only what you've typed would make way more sense--especially the latter, which are designed precisely for this situation. VI's modes and other useful-for-code features are, for the purposes of writing, just another form of counter-productive bloat; it's not remotely worth learning VI if you're not going to be moving blocks of code around and bouncing about your document almost as often as you actually modify the text.

    4. Re:MS Notepad by ncc74656 · · Score: 1

      notepad has size limitations forget what it is but I have hit it on several occasions.

      Up through Win9x, it was 64K IIRC. Notepad on WinNT and its descendants may have a limit, but it's larger than you're likely to bump up against unless you're trying to pull some multi-gigabyte logfile (or whatever) into it for browsing.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    5. Re:MS Notepad by msuarezalvarez · · Score: 1

      The Backspace does exactñy what it should in vim---but it may be different from what *you* expect it to do. It is trivial to change its behaviour, in any case. Vim is very selective of its users...

    6. Re:MS Notepad by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 2, Informative

      Isnt it simpler to ise the arrow keys for navigation and backspace for backspace,etc..
      I believe gedit does the same for Linux

      Pls enlighten me..

      Firstly, the arrow keys work just fine in vim. However, in my experience, the arrow keys are just about the worst irritant for RSI problems, surpassed only by certain mouse operations. The arrow keys encourage you to bend your wrist sharply and make a bunch of repeated keypresses. This is very hard on the tendons that go through the wrist.

      Using the HJKL keys in vim is much more natural hand positioning, and the powerful cursor movement commands in vim cut way down on how many keys need to be pressed in the first place. (I do map the ESC key in vim to Alt+F so that I don't have to reach for that all the time either.)

    7. Re:MS Notepad by Bake · · Score: 1

      and mostly keys that are easy to press (like :w to save, instead of Alt+F, S).

      How on earth do you come to the conclusion that hitting Esc, :w to save is somehow easier to press than Alt-F,S or Ctrl-S for that matter?

      Typing :w may be easy enough but in order to get to the command mode you have to hit Esc which means that unless your fingers are like E.T.'s fingers you have to move your hand from its normal typing position.

    8. Re:MS Notepad by CrashNBrn · · Score: 1

      Yes, Ctrl+S is so much more difficult than: Shift+{semi-colon} w s {Enter}
      2 Keys vs 5... Hmmm

      And any half-ways decent editor has Column-block select, ALT+LeftClick Drag or a some kind of keyboard combination, EmEditor's is Shift+Ctrl+F8.

      Every single editor in Windows has common-key controls, Shift+DEL (Ctrl+X), Shift+INS (Ctrl+V), Undo/Redo, Find Ctrl+F, etc etc.

      Almost every command/function can be accomplished with 2 or 3 keys versus Vims 4 and more. That's hardly efficient.

      Navigating with the keyboard? Ctrl+Right/Left, End/Home, Ctrl+End/Home, PgDn/PgUp.

      Vim may very well be a powerful editor but it's definitely not easy to use, or learn and almost every single Vim command can be done easier and with less keyboard interaction with a basic/or Advanced windows text editor.

    9. Re:MS Notepad by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      (like :w to save, instead of Alt+F, S)

      Despite the fact that I agree with whatever you're talking about here, I can't let that pass away...

      vim: :w - Three strokes all across the keyboard, two hands needed.
      Word: Ctrl-S - Two keystrokes, one hand needed.

    10. Re:MS Notepad by gratuitous_arp · · Score: 1

      Vim users often re-map the "caps lock" key to be "escape", so you end up never moving your hands off of home row. Not moving from the home row: that's where the speed comes in. If the commands come naturally and you never have to move from the home row, the difference is very noticeable.

      Plus, you're not always in insert mode. Arguably, you'll use save more often while you're revising something -- move a word or line in command mode, save, and continue without moving your hands. It's very natural.

      I would say don't consult the vim guy for Word hotkeys, but here's a better one for you: CTRL+Right arrow to skip a word, versus vim's 'w'. Yeah, just 'w'. Or 'W' to skip to the next whitespace -- something Word won't do afaik. Take both hands off home row, or just press 'w'? I'm sure you can find worse if you are really interested, but I don't think it's much of a contest; efficient editing is specifically what vim was made for.

    11. Re:MS Notepad by gratuitous_arp · · Score: 1

      See reply above.

    12. Re:MS Notepad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Notepad had a nice 64K limit once upon a time, I am not sure if MS made it 32bit.

      Of course, there is open source Notepad+ which is absolutely loved by a lot of people including developers.

      http://notepad-plus-plus.org/

    13. Re:MS Notepad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll definitely agree here. I'd say vi(m) is more suited to coding and such where you will more likely be making small edits, moving words/lines around, etc.
      I was thinking about Nano while reading all these comments...maybe I'll try a virtual terminal with just that open sometime to see if it helps me focus.

  18. Less is romantic, it isn't more by Shihar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Personally, I think you just sound like a romantic, not someone who has stumbled upon a magic productivity method. What gets your rocks off is thinking that you are doing something old sk00l. It is pretty dead easy to make MS Word 2040 or whatever version they are on a blank white screen where words appear when you type. Your other old sk00l romanticism is just that, romanticism. A fixie really isn't better than a bike with gears unless you like having your legs sheared off when you go too fast. Gears are actually awesome when you need to go up a steep hill or want to haul ass down a steep hill. Power steering, computer control traction, and all of that goodness is likewise is awesome when something dives in front of your car and you need to make a sharp dodge. Touchy feel decelerations that you can feel the road better and that somehow improves your not hitting shit skills don't stand up the statistical reality that power steering, traction control, and fun stuff like that reduces accidents.

    There is nothing wrong with being a romantic who idealizes simplicity, and there certainly is something to be said for keeping thing simple, but your methods are almost certainly useless to someone who doesn't see the romanticism in using old obscure text editors. For those people, if the editor is really distracting, they should just take a few seconds to pair down the interface to MS Word or Open Office (or whatever), rather than run an archaic text editor. If you are a romantic and need to be in a mood to write, find what gets your rocks off and go for it. Neal Stephenson wrote the 4000 or so page series with a freaking fountain pen. Inefficient? Sure, but if acting a little archaic gets your creative juices flowing, go for it.

    1. Re:Less is romantic, it isn't more by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      Touchy feel decelerations that you can feel the road better and that somehow improves your not hitting shit skills don't stand up the statistical reality that power steering, traction control, and fun stuff like that reduces accidents.

      Professional drivers and professional writers fall on the far end of the statistical curve.
      They don't necessarily want or need the fancy assists that keep the rest of us from failing in spectacular fashion.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    2. Re:Less is romantic, it isn't more by Nyder · · Score: 1

      Personally, I think you just sound like a romantic, not someone who has stumbled upon a magic productivity method. What gets your rocks off is thinking that you are doing something old sk00l. It is pretty dead easy to make MS Word 2040 or whatever version they are on a blank white screen where words appear when you type. Your other old sk00l romanticism is just that, romanticism. A fixie really isn't better than a bike with gears unless you like having your legs sheared off when you go too fast. Gears are actually awesome when you need to go up a steep hill or want to haul ass down a steep hill. Power steering, computer control traction, and all of that goodness is likewise is awesome when something dives in front of your car and you need to make a sharp dodge. Touchy feel decelerations that you can feel the road better and that somehow improves your not hitting shit skills don't stand up the statistical reality that power steering, traction control, and fun stuff like that reduces accidents.

      There is nothing wrong with being a romantic who idealizes simplicity, and there certainly is something to be said for keeping thing simple, but your methods are almost certainly useless to someone who doesn't see the romanticism in using old obscure text editors. For those people, if the editor is really distracting, they should just take a few seconds to pair down the interface to MS Word or Open Office (or whatever), rather than run an archaic text editor. If you are a romantic and need to be in a mood to write, find what gets your rocks off and go for it. Neal Stephenson wrote the 4000 or so page series with a freaking fountain pen. Inefficient? Sure, but if acting a little archaic gets your creative juices flowing, go for it.

      So your saying, using my TRS-80 4p, and Scripsit (first word processor I ever learned) to bust out a wonderful novel today would be wrong?

      Calling the Model 4p portable was wrong. =)

      --
      Be seeing you...
    3. Re:Less is romantic, it isn't more by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 0, Troll

      They don't necessarily want or need the fancy assists that keep the rest of us from failing in spectacular fashion.

      Yes, but he's not making this claim:

      "I'm a professional writer, therefore I don't need all the features in Word."

      The claim he's making is:

      "I'm a professional writer, therefore all the features in Word obstruct my work."

      Those aren't equivalent claims, and the second one is complete bullshit by any measure. There's nothing in Word that's causing you to fail.

    4. Re:Less is romantic, it isn't more by catchblue22 · · Score: 1

      I get the distraction thing, that word processors often are so fiddly that they detract from writing. But there are other excellent tools out there that use full screen views to reduce distraction. As has been mentioned before in these posts, there is Q10, which is a highly minimal word processor. On the other side, there is Scrivener, an OSX piece of writing software that features a full screen view, but that also has features for note taking/cork boards. That said, I suspect that the writing process is highly idiosyncratic; each writer has their own peculiar rituals.

      --
      This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
    5. Re:Less is romantic, it isn't more by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 1

      You can put Word 2007 into an extremely minimal writing mode in 2 clicks:

      http://schend.net/images/screenshots/minimal_word.png

      (Using Word here, because it's most people's example of a "bloated" writing tool. I wager every word processor has a similarly-minimal fullscreen mode.)

    6. Re:Less is romantic, it isn't more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your pendulum is a bit overswung, I think. Power steering sucks, or at least some power steering systems suck. The difference in difficulty in turning the wheel on different surfaces with rack and pinion tells you loads about what you're driving on. Having the wheel react back against you is likewise informative.

    7. Re:Less is romantic, it isn't more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, I often find that seatbelts and airbags really prevent me from appreciating the full impact of a car accident.
      There's nothing that says "I don't want or need fancy assists to keep me from failing spectacularly!" quite like flying face first through your windshield.

      I guess i'm just not cool enough.

    8. Re:Less is romantic, it isn't more by sznupi · · Score: 1

      What is someone really doesn't like such blue? (plus hey, "cold" / might impact the book ;) )

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    9. Re:Less is romantic, it isn't more by orin · · Score: 1

      Stephenson writes the first draft with a fountain pen - he then puts it all into his word processor from there. He doesn't do multiple drafts that way.

    10. Re:Less is romantic, it isn't more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Power steering, computer control traction, and all of that goodness is likewise is awesome when something dives in front of your car and you need to make a sharp dodge. Touchy feel decelerations that you can feel the road better and that somehow improves your not hitting shit skills don't stand up the statistical reality that power steering, traction control, and fun stuff like that reduces accidents.

      Maybe, maybe not.

      This article targets airbags and antilock brakes, but it may be just as applicable to other automotive safety features:
      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/09/060927201332.htm

  19. Ed is the standard text editor. by gratuitous_arp · · Score: 5, Funny

    "When I log into my Xenix system with my 110 baud teletype, both vi and Emacs are just too damn slow. They print useless messages like, ‘C-h for help’ and ‘“foo” File is read only’. So I use the editor that doesn't waste my VALUABLE time.

    Ed, man! !man ed"

    http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed.msg.html :-)

    1. Re:Ed is the standard text editor. by MrHanky · · Score: 1

      The fact that this wasn't in the first post here of this discussion is irrefutable proof of Slashdot's decline as a nerd site.

    2. Re:Ed is the standard text editor. by imbaczek · · Score: 1

      +1, disapointed

    3. Re:Ed is the standard text editor. by maestroX · · Score: 1
      It's a classic. I still feel guilty when firing up emacs, though it's probably one of the lesser large programs today :-)

      -rwxr-xr-x 1 root 24 Oct 29 1929 /bin/ed
      -rwxr-xr-t 4 root 1310720 Jan 1 1970 /usr/ucb/vi
      -rwxr-xr-x 1 root 5.89824e37 Oct 22 1990 /usr/bin/emacs

    4. Re:Ed is the standard text editor. by Espressor · · Score: 1
      Thanks. I laughed so hard reading the joke in reference, it's justified the time spent reading what otherwise amounts to a pretty useless Slashdot discussion.

      Ed, the greatest WYGIWYG editor of all.

      WYGIWYG, not WYSIWYG! Brilliant. :-)

  20. Screw ed by hedronist · · Score: 1

    You can medicate ed with Viagra.

    What you really want is TECO FTW!

  21. What's your point? by Petersko · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Words processors have continued to have more and more tools, making them harder and harder to use."

    For the purposes of this guy's word grinding, any word processor in existence would be spectacularly easy to use. Launch, type, save. Maybe print. The fact that he couldn't resist doing the formatting when writing is his problem, not the tool's. He overcomplicated his work flow. "But too often I tackled the day's writing deciding such issues as a font for the day's draft." I mean, come on, dude. Pick one that looks like the typewriter output you yearn for and go write.

    "Look at Microsloth Word: it keeps getting more and more like a page layout program, and less and less like a tool to get text in the computer."

    Actually it's a perfectly decent tool for getting text in the computer, unless you're VERY easily distracted, and then when you're done typing, it becomes a page layout program. And seriously, "Microsloth"? Is it 2002 again? I thought that tiresome insult-through-spelling thing had died down.

    1. Re:What's your point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And seriously, "Microsloth"? Is it 2002 again? I thought that tiresome insult-through-spelling thing had died down.

      Yeah, that is Epic Fail right there..

    2. Re:What's your point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      For the purposes of this guy's word grinding, any word processor in existence would be spectacularly easy to use. Launch, type, save. Maybe print. The fact that he couldn't resist doing the formatting when writing is his problem, not the tool's. He overcomplicated his work flow. "But too often I tackled the day's writing deciding such issues as a font for the day's draft." I mean, come on, dude. Pick one that looks like the typewriter output you yearn for and go write.

      Having to do so every time he creates a new document.

      Actually it's a perfectly decent tool for getting text in the computer, unless you're VERY easily distracted, and then when you're done typing, it becomes a page layout program. And seriously, "Microsloth"? Is it 2002 again? I thought that tiresome insult-through-spelling thing had died down.

      Word is not a decent tool for getting text into the computer. It starts slowly, vi starts without visible delay. Word also gets slowed down, when typing text, since it does formatting in realtime. Then it saves the document in binary encoding, which is a really bad idea, if you want to not loose your data, with a couple of bit errors. It also tends to correct spelling as you type, this slows down your typing. It has a nasty habit of changing i to I, despite having looked around and changed the language to swedish.

      This slows down the typing, so word is about the worst tool to type in text to a computer.

    3. Re:What's your point? by PCM2 · · Score: 1, Informative

      Having to do so every time he creates a new document.

      What?? Set the goddamn default font, dude... even a typewriter needs a ribbon and a sheet of paper before you use it. In Word 2010 there's a great big "Set as Default" button on the Font dialog box.

      Word is not a decent tool for getting text into the computer. It starts slowly, vi starts without visible delay.

      Starts slowly? What ancient hardware/version of Word are you using? The splash screen for Word 2010 includes a little box that allows you to abort opening the program if you double-clicked its icon by mistake. Unfortunately, I can't move my hand fast enough to click it before I'm staring at a new blank document. Typing "vi filename" actually takes longer.

      Word also gets slowed down, when typing text, since it does formatting in realtime.

      Are you saying this as something you've actually observed or are you just making assumptions? Last week I did some pretty extensive editing on a 973-page Word document with no slowdowns whatsoever. Global search-and-replace took a couple of seconds.

      Then it saves the document in binary encoding, which is a really bad idea, if you want to not loose your data, with a couple of bit errors.

      Got bad news for you; ASCII is a "binary encoding," too.

      It also tends to correct spelling as you type, this slows down your typing.

      Really? Saves me a lot of time correcting typos.

      It has a nasty habit of changing i to I, despite having looked around and changed the language to swedish.

      In Word 2010 you can click the little button that appears next to the change and tell it to "stop changing i to I." And at the same time it would have remembered to capitalize Swedish for you.

      This slows down the typing, so word is about the worst tool to type in text to a computer.

      Or maybe you don't know how to use the tools and you have strange typing habits?

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    4. Re:What's your point? by Nemyst · · Score: 1

      With Office 2007 and above you can even hide the entire ribbon, leaving almost nothing to distract you, if you so desire. It's both practical for small screens and it helps isolating you if you're easily distracted.

    5. Re:What's your point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What?? Set the goddamn default font, dude... even a typewriter needs a ribbon and a sheet of paper before you use it. In Word 2010 there's a great big "Set as Default" button on the Font dialog box.

      I haven't used Word 2010. The versions I have used, has not had a Set as default button visible.

      Starts slowly? What ancient hardware/version of Word are you using? The splash screen for Word 2010 includes a little box that allows you to abort opening the program if you double-clicked its icon by mistake. Unfortunately, I can't move my hand fast enough to click it before I'm staring at a new blank document. Typing "vi filename" actually takes longer.

      A pretty new computer with 12 GB RAM. If you can touch type, vi filename, is a lot faster than opening Word on a high end machine.

      Are you saying this as something you've actually observed or are you just making assumptions? Last week I did some pretty extensive editing on a 973-page Word document with no slowdowns whatsoever. Global search-and-replace took a couple of seconds.

      Everytime I have used Word, I have observed a delay. It becomes apparent when writing with a decent speed. The search and replace is also crap. If I want to insert something in the beginning of each row, or do a decent reg-exp replace on 150 rows, Word is pretty worthless.

      Got bad news for you; ASCII is a "binary encoding," too.

      Depends of the meaning of binary. Many times people differentiate between binary and text format. So don't be anal.

      Really? Saves me a lot of time correcting typos.

      In general, it changes things that are not typos. Such as acronyms. That tends to be beeping annoying. Having to go back and change things every other sentence because it changes things that are not wrong slows down typing seriously.

      In Word 2010 you can click the little button that appears next to the change and tell it to "stop changing i to I." And at the same time it would have remembered to capitalize Swedish for you.

      Setting the language to Swedish should stop changing i to I, since the word i is only capitilized in the Swedish language in the beginning of a new sentence. In the versions of Word that I have used, the option to not capitalize i, has always been in obscure places. The fact that when I write a technical report in Word and it suggest that I change a term, because it believes that the term is bureaucratic, is something that should be considered a bug.

      Word also underlines things in green and red, a fact that I was not aware of until someone mentioned it to me. You can guess what beeping error Microsoft made there.

      Or maybe you don't know how to use the tools and you have strange typing habits?

      Blame the users knowledge, when it has valid criticism. I know how to use Word, but the mere fact that I do have to spend over an hour to customize Word, so that it doesn't mess up my typing speed to beeping much, clearly shows that Word is not the correct tool, to type in text.

      Word is a communistic software, since it tries to make every user equally lousy at typing.

    6. Re:What's your point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then it saves the document in binary encoding, which is a really bad idea, if you want to not loose your data, with a couple of bit errors.

      Got bad news for you; ASCII is a "binary encoding," too.

      Got bad news for you. You don't know the difference between binary and text.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII

      Or are you one of these pedantic people that just discovered computers in 2005? Well, then I have more bad news for you - binary formats are formats that FAIL to produce human readable format upon execution of,

            cat filename

      Text formats produce human readable output. ASCII, or XML, or HTML are example of text formats. docx or .doc or ODF are example of non-human readable format (even though ODF is a compressed XML, the compressed part results in non-human readable, binary file)

      And if you get an error in a typical saved binary file, you are fucked. With ASCII, it's not that much of a problem. You only lose the bits that get scrambled. Secondly, a book may be 100kB in size, while in word it will run into tens megabytes -> easier to manage backups.

    7. Re:What's your point? by steelfood · · Score: 1

      I suggest a fix-sized font, e.g. Courier/Courier New. It's actually easier to read due to the serif and the wide spacing, and it gives a feeling that you're using a non-graphical text editor, both reducing the temptation of doing something else (like formatting or surfing the internet) and it makes consuming each line faster. That way, you're not distracted by the text you've already written and can focus on the current line you're writing.

      It's whatever works best though. If writing upside down with feather and quill is best, than by all means...

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    8. Re:What's your point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Got bad news for you. You don't know the difference between binary and text.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII

      Got absolutely terrible news for you:

      1. Wikipedia is not a primary source.
      2. In a computer, there is no difference between binary and text.

    9. Re:What's your point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Got bad news for you. People have been using unicode text for some time now. I haven't worried about losing bits from my files since I stopped using XMODEM. I haven't been concerned over saving kilobytes of space on backup media since I stopped using floppies. All your arguments would be valid in 1996 but this is 2010.

    10. Re:What's your point? by slim · · Score: 1

      Courier/Courier New. It's actually easier to read due to the serif and the wide spacing,

      I'm willing to believe that you find Courier easier to read; I mean we're all different.

      But research shows that for body text, a variable spaced, serif font like Times is easiest for most people to read, which is why almost all newspapers, books and web pages use it.

    11. Re:What's your point? by atisss · · Score: 1

      Starts slowly? What ancient hardware/version of Word are you using? The splash screen for Word 2010 includes a little box that allows you to abort opening the program if you double-clicked its icon by mistake. Unfortunately, I can't move my hand fast enough to click it before I'm staring at a new blank document. Typing "vi filename" actually takes longer.

      Umm, what kind of supercomputer do I need to run text editor? vi fi[tab][enter] is as fast as blink of the eye ;)

    12. Re:What's your point? by Quirkz · · Score: 1
      Just out of curiosity, does that research distinguish between reading on the printed page and reading on a computer screen? I agree Times is just fine in print, but I find practically illegible on the screen. It seems like it's always super blurry from anti-aliasing, and certain letter combinations can be hard to discern as they kind of cram together. (The difference between an rn and an m, for one example.) I am also incapable of telling the difference between one space or two (or sometimes none, if it's at the boundary between italics and normal lettering). For editing on-screen, I genuinely find a monospace font far more legible. Lots of space to pick out every individual letter, very easy to detect if you've got an extraneous space between words.

      Now yes, when you print it out, monospace is horrible. You wouldn't ever want to do that.

      For the record, I'm not sure most web sites do use times. I think the Arial/Helvetica combo is many times more common.

    13. Re:What's your point? by slim · · Score: 1

      Try this http://bigital.com/english/files/.../web_legibility_readability.pdf

      Screens are different, but as resolutions improve, less so year on year.

      Are you talking about reading code? I agree that a monospace font is essential for code -- although I wouldn't choose Courier. Consolas FTW!

      For prose, why would you care about a single or a double space? Or in most cases, rn vs m -- when reading prose in your native language, you usually recognise whole words rather than a letter at a time, and I think serif fonts generally aid that.

    14. Re:What's your point? by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      Why would I care about errors when I could identify and fix them? Well, for one, to fix them. Specifically when someone's paying me for copy editing, not leaving mistakes is critical, but in a general sense I like things to be correct.

    15. Re:What's your point? by slim · · Score: 1

      Aha! You got me; I was thinking about reading, and you were (correctly, in the context of TFA) thinking about editing.

      In a Word-like program, I would turn on visible whitespace markers when copy editing, to spot double spaces and wayward carriage returns.

      "rn" vs "m", I'm not so sure about, though I like to think I would easily notice the difference.

  22. I never got the point of word processors... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    They seem to be intentionally designed to be the wrong tool for anything you may be trying to do.

  23. If you want a good, older editor try Jed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My editor of choice for many years has been Jed.
    Text based, simple to use, even over an ssh session.

    http://www.jedsoft.org/jed/

    check it out if you are looking for something that doesn't get in the way of the process.

  24. WriteRoom is better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    for the simple reason that it support typewriter scrolling -- the line you're working on stays near the center of the screen -- no more peering down at the bottom of the page. Aside from that, any word processor or text editor that gives you full screen mode and and lets you turn off any sort of crappy toolbar/ribbon system is fine for me.

    I must admit to having amassed a large collection of manual typewriters and expensive pens over the years in my attempts to find the tool that keeps me writing. So, if ed gets you putting words down, then that makes it the ideal tool for you.

  25. Word processors detriment on books. by line-bundle · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Do word processors not make it too easy for writers to write bloated books?

    I take the position that word processors have had a detriment on clarity of writing. It's too easy to not have to keep everything in you head when writing with a word processor.

    I used to enjoy Asimov, but it seems his later books (after 1980) just got fat and I stopped reading.

    And look at college textbooks. Who reads all those pages?

    1. Re:Word processors detriment on books. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, you're right! I re-read Les Miserables recently and that Victor Hugo, man, he wrote a tight plot with no wasted pages. I'm looking forward to re-reading Dickens' slimline Tale of Two Cities, too! Sure better than wading through the bloated word-processed rubbish coming out of these fancy modern "authors".

    2. Re:Word processors detriment on books. by Nyder · · Score: 1

      Do word processors not make it too easy for writers to write bloated books?

      I take the position that word processors have had a detriment on clarity of writing. It's too easy to not have to keep everything in you head when writing with a word processor.

      I used to enjoy Asimov, but it seems his later books (after 1980) just got fat and I stopped reading.

      And look at college textbooks. Who reads all those pages?

      I feel the same way about Clive Barker. His short stories were excellent in my opinion, but his later novel size books? Wasn't the same. And it's not like I don't appreciate good thick books, i prefer them actually. Not into short stories really. So go figure.

      I have no idea if he changed what he used to write with, but his short stories were during the younger part of his life, so ya, I could see him doing them more old school then the novels he did later after he gained some fame from Hellraiser.

      --
      Be seeing you...
    3. Re:Word processors detriment on books. by deapbluesea · · Score: 1

      Do word processors not make it too easy for writers to write bloated books?

      If you've ever tried to get MS Word to format a 100+ page thesis, then you know that it's sole purpose in life is keep you from writing anything over 10 pages.

      --
      Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
    4. Re:Word processors detriment on books. by Omestes · · Score: 1

      Some people just do better short stories than novels. It happens. Thomas Pynchon is like that, his short fiction is pretty damn good, his actual books are convoluted, messy, and rather annoying. Short fiction and novels are very different beasts when it comes to writing. Just because you can do a neat bit of short fiction, doesn't mean you can scale up your plotting skills.

      Asimov was a master of short fiction. When he got tried to write longer things (ahem... Foundation), he got overly convoluted. Probably nothing to do with what technology he used.

      Clive Barker is the same, as is a lot of the people who transitioned from short, pulp based, fiction to longer novel type fiction. Going from short stories to novels basically means relearning how to write.

      --
      A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
    5. Re:Word processors detriment on books. by AJWM · · Score: 1

      Some of the bloat is due to word processors -- if you're writing on a typewriter, revisions mean retyping the whole bloody thing, which is a pain and is time consuming. With a word processor (or even ed) you only have to retype the changes.

      But, a bigger cause of the bloat is publishers themselves. As book prices rose, pubs wanted to provide readers with more words and pages to justify the cost (the paper and ink only being a fraction of the total book cost). Back when I started reading SF as a kid, novels were typically in the 60,000 word range. I recently submitted a 70k novel -- the publisher likes it but wants it 20-30k words longer. I can do that (by adding plot threads, not bloat) but my writing tends to be tight to start with (and I like to trim 10-20% on the final draft). Most fiction these days could stand to be cut 15%, but the publishers don't want that -- presumably because most readers want more pages per dollar.

      It's easy for an author to add bloat by inverting the usual rules of good writing (two words where one would do, unnecessary description, redundant words and phrases, etc). A beginner won't get away with that because the work has to stand on its own. A recognized author name has momentum, so its easier to get away with. Conversely, an experienced author should also have an easier time coming up with additional plot points (words are easy, plotting takes more thought) to expand the work and need not revert to bloat -- so it depends on the author.

      --
      -- Alastair
    6. Re:Word processors detriment on books. by Mr.+Pibb · · Score: 1

      I don't know if it was anything to do with Asimov, but there's a study that alleges that Agatha Christie's writing quality got much worse both statistically and critically as she grew older.

      And college textbooks are another thing altogether. The incentive for publishers is to keep them fat, because that means:
      A) they can justify the outrageous prices they charge.
      B) their books look more complete.

      There definitely has been textbook bloat. My calculus teacher in HS had unearthed a 1940s calculus textbook. It was less than 100 pages-- probably closer to 50-- and still covered the whole year's material. Without the look-up tables, of course.

    7. Re:Word processors detriment on books. by MrHanky · · Score: 1

      No. Word processors to a few things easier: simple formatting of small pieces of text for personal use (no word document is suitable for print), automatic updating of indexes, footnotes, etc., and editing. Even excellent writers who use a typewriter (there are a few of them out there still) tend to do an awful lot of editing, rewriting the same sentence or paragraph over and over until they are more or less happy with it. Good writing has more to do with the patience and time to get it right than to transmit something in one's head to paper. The reason why you think the era of the word processor has been detrimental to the clarity of writing is most likely that far more text is produced, by far more people, some of whom have no talent nor time for writing.

      Of course, fashion might also come into it. American writing especially was influenced by the journalistic demands of brevity not too long ago, but fashion is always changing. Perhaps you're just old-fashioned, or perhaps you read the wrong books.

    8. Re:Word processors detriment on books. by MrHanky · · Score: 2, Informative

      I should add that editing in Word or OpenOffice, while easier, gets frustrating very soon if there is an awful lot to edit. Even a short document, if it needs a lot of changes, it tends to get very slow to load, and text blocks move around randomly, causing a lot of confusion. So although it's easy initially, some of the functionality is extremely poorly implemented.

    9. Re:Word processors detriment on books. by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      I take the position that word processors have had a detriment on clarity of writing. It's too easy to not have to keep everything in you head when writing with a word processor.

      The lack of word processors never stopped any writer from rattling off a bloated, over-long manuscript.

      The difference was that publishers used to hire and retain people whose job was to edit said manuscripts. The lack of editing in modern fiction is pathetically obvious. Established writers (say, Stephen King) seem to get to put pretty much whatever they want between two covers and nobody so much as bats an eye, but even books by first-time authors show up full of typos, bad grammar, and poorly-handled plots. Apparently publishers no longer draw a line between good books and healthy book sales.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
  26. Writeroom, et al. by pushing-robot · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I've seen plenty of modern apps that offer "distraction free writing". Even most full-featured word processors have a full screen mode that hides the UI. Plus, you get nice extras like proportional fonts, bold, italic, and underline, simple copy and paste, and so on.

    Also, modern CPUs are so powerful that even a graphical word processor should leave the processor idling most of the time. Unless your GUI word processor is incredibly bloated and inefficient (*cough* Word *cough*) there isn't really a practical performance or battery life benefit to switching to a command line editor.

    But hey, you're writing a novel, so whatever fuels your creative process is fine by me. After all, some authors use antique typewriters, or pen and paper. I've even been known to use a stylus and clay tablet, but only when I'm writing Sumerian viruses.

    --
    How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
    1. Re:Writeroom, et al. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      /me wonders how many people got the reference to Snow Crash

    2. Re:Writeroom, et al. by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      Hate the Microsoft Word GUI? Try this: Open Word 2010, press F11. Bang, blank page, no UI widgets. I'm not sure how many versions back this works, but I suspect it's several.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    3. Re:Writeroom, et al. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Composing the Nam-shub of Enki, are we?

    4. Re:Writeroom, et al. by LinuxIsGarbage · · Score: 1

      You want bloated an inefficient? Try Open Office. 30 seconds to load to a blank document, 75MB RAM consumption for the blank document. Twice as long as MSO to load a large document, with even more RAM gobbling power.

  27. Upgrade time by flyingfsck · · Score: 4, Funny

    Next year he should upgrade to Microsoft Edlin. That'll teach him.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  28. Obligatory by smcdow · · Score: 1
    --
    In the course of every project, it will become necessary to shoot the scientists and begin production.
  29. Whatever Works For You by Greyfox · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I've always hated Word and its ilk because the program is constantly fighting how I want to work. I spend more time fighting with the program than I do creating new content. Microsoft and Apple both seem to feel they know how to do what you're trying to accomplish better than you do, and not just in the word processing tools. So if you found a tool that works better for you, more power to you.

    Personally I prefer markup languages like HTML or LaTeX, which I create with vi or Emacs for the documents I write. You can generally get away with HTML for just about everything these days. You can generate (beautiful) PDFs with LaTeX, but a lot of times people don't want a read-only document. I expect that if you're writing a book the publisher will eventually format it the way they want it anyway, and plain text is ultimately the lowest common denominator!

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  30. It is not like you have to use Powerpoint... by netsavior · · Score: 2, Informative

    I get that Office Suite 20xx is bloated, but it is not like there aren't a wide array of Novel specific editors that cater to the exact things novel writers need, and it is not like OSs don't come with VI, EMACS, DOS Edit, Notepad, etc...
    Scrivener is almost good enough to make me want a mac.
    Rough Draft is what I actually use to write novels, it is simple and outputs in RTF, has very few features, but the ones that it does have are what I want.

    IMO a good creative writing software package has to be simple, and it looks like TFA is looking to simplify even further... It is an understandable thing, because distractions are killer for a writer...

    IMO he should get an AlphaSmart A portable, purpose built device which does text and only text. Full keyboard, it gets something like 700 hours on 3 AA batteries, it does not have fonts or animated assistants or 1gb install files, and best of all, you don't have to look like a pretentious douche on slashdot to use it.

    1. Re:It is not like you have to use Powerpoint... by Spacejock · · Score: 1

      There are many reasons why someone would choose a novel editor instead of a word processor. Authors deal with 80,000+ word documents, not two page business letters, and a tool which breaks the novel down into chapters and scenes and also allows you to view details on characters, locations and so on is always going to be more efficient.

      (Incidentally, I'm the guy behind freeware yWriter. I'm a programmer and a published author, and am currently getting my fifth novel ready for the publisher.)

    2. Re:It is not like you have to use Powerpoint... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you so much. This neo looks to be the first genuine improvement to portable word processing I have seen since I lost my dual floppy drive laptop (12 hours per charge) and yes it had wordstar. You truly are the netsavior.

    3. Re:It is not like you have to use Powerpoint... by netsavior · · Score: 1

      oh yeah, we don't disagree here. I am a fan of using novel software rather than word processor software when apropriate. I think TFA was just being pretentious.

      Sadly I have never heard of your software, I am polishing off my current project for my publisher now, but I will try yWriter out for NanoWriMo this year. Thanks for plugging it (really, thank you)

    4. Re:It is not like you have to use Powerpoint... by badkarmadayaccount · · Score: 1

      Not to be a ungrateful slob, but I notice a lack of source links...

      --
      I know tobacco is bad for you, so I smoke weed with crack.
  31. Wrong end of the telescope by starfishsystems · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Remember when you were a kid and you would pretend that the cardboard tube from a roll of paper towels was a telescope? You would look down the tube and see a tiny piece of the world. That's what it's like to compose text using a line editor.

    I was once compelled to write a WYSIWYG editor, in the days when all the system provided was a line editor equivalent to ed. I noticed that the work became an order of magnitude faster once I was able to use my editor as a development tool.

    --
    Parity: What to do when the weekend comes.
  32. No Patent Infringement! by TheNarrator · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One good thing about using technology that old is there's no chance you could be violating any patents. It certainly makes sense as a symbolic gesture at least.

  33. Ed not pioneering by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2, Informative

    Ed was never pioneering in any sense—if you're going to be romantic about the past, at least be right. It's essentially a minimalist clone of qed made by and for, as usual, Unix guys who couldn't run the real deal on their low-end PDPs. qed/qedx, for the record, had all sorts of bells and whistles, including at one point regexes.

    --
    Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    1. Re:Ed not pioneering by macshit · · Score: 1

      Hmm, you say "never pioneering in any sense" like it's some sort of damning fault...

      Maybe it's just sheer luck that ed has vastly exceeded qed in popularity, but still, ed's a fine editor.

      qed may also be (have been?) a fine editor of course...

      --
      We live, as we dream -- alone....
    2. Re:Ed not pioneering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Regexes as we know them were invented in ed. For the matter, ed(1) is far too usable. It isn't a screen editor but it is close to be as good as a line editor can be.
      I still use it from time to time if I connect to some stupid machine, probably running some sort of GNU, with broken terminal codes or without a working vi(1) simulator.
      EDLIN.COM would be a better candidate.

    3. Re:Ed not pioneering by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      I only said "not pioneering" because the TFS says it's pioneering ;)

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    4. Re:Ed not pioneering by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      No, regexes came from qed, of which ed is a clone. qedx was a much better line editor with a far more complete feature set and user-friendly ways of saying "?".

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
  34. Scrivener by Jugalator · · Score: 1

    This guy should have checked out Scrivener. It's not focusing on layout and stuff like that, but useful features that keeps a larger work (novel or other things) together. Keeping track of your loose ends with a storyboard feature and much more. There are more tools like this too.

    --
    Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
  35. vi? Yikes by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    As i am not a masochist, if i wanted to go minimalist I would choose Joe. Back in my MSDOS days i used to use Galaxy ( i couldn't afford anything else, until i bought FrameWork II.. and it worked just fine for me )

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  36. You and your fancy append by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Real men use 'cat > story.txt', starting from the beginning each time.

    1. Re:You and your fancy append by lennier1 · · Score: 0, Troll

      Real masochists use MS Word.

  37. A monitor is just a distraction. by fatalexe · · Score: 1

    Send the command prompt output to a line printer. Ed is nice when you have everying on paper.

  38. Old School on the New School by Reeses · · Score: 3, Informative

    I don't know what OS the author of the original post is using, but if he's using a Mac, he should look into WriteRoom.

    http://www.hogbaysoftware.com/products/writeroom

    It's like writing on the word processor from the Apple II days, it clear all the modern OS widgets out of the way so you're not constantly distracted, and you can edit in any combination of background/text colors you want.

    I prefer bold blue text on a black background. None of the formatting is saved in the document, it's only done in presentation by the app and you get modern features like word count and what not.

    I can't recommend it high enough.

    But hey, I'm an oldster around here, what do I know?

    --
    Reeses
    1. Re:Old School on the New School by Ant+P. · · Score: 1

      Wow, $25 for a program that does nothing more than running nano in a fullscreen terminal? It's amazing what suckers will pay for these days.

    2. Re:Old School on the New School by caitsith01 · · Score: 1

      Or the multi-platform, also excellent (and free) Dark Room:

      http://they.misled.us/dark-room

      Basically it hides your desktop and gives you nothing but a blank screen and text. If you want to you can navigate around your doc, but you don't have to. You can also set it to auto-load with the last thing you were working on, which gives a sense of persistence to it. Customizable colours etc too.

      --
      Read Pynchon.
  39. This isn't about productivity by Gooberheadly · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This article is more about how the process of hammering out chips of stone in a tablet focuses the mind on the words than it is on technology. Asimov, King, Heinlein, and DeCamp all wrote about establishing a writers discipline and what it takes to get the job done. This article isn't about efficiency or technology per se. Discipline is about output over a period of time and what it takes to 'make' yourself produce. What this author is talking about is how he disciplines himself to create output. Notice that he mentions his daily time limit. Apparently, a lot of writers have to force themselves into certain constraints to get the job done.

    Whatever works for him. Some people still write out their novels in long hand on lined paper.

    1. Re:This isn't about productivity by AJWM · · Score: 1

      I already commented or I'd mod this up.

      Parent post is exactly right, it's about enforcing discipline. Many writers, especially of fiction, are "differently attentive" (ie, ADD) and it is so easy to get sidetracked into looking up a word or fact on-line right now or tweaking the text by rearranging phrases in the middle of writing a paragraph. All of which kills productivity and also plays havoc with the creative process necessary to good writing. (Similar to when you're "in the zone" coding or debugging.)

      Writing consists of both the creative part and the editor part -- but you have to keep them separate or your internal editor will screw up the creative flow by throwing up alternative phrasings, word choices, compelling you to back up delete something because it isn't good enough, etc. You need to turn that off to be productive in draft mode (and turn on in revision mode for the subsequent draft). That takes discipline. If using ed helps -- and since it requires a conscious switch between input mode and edit mode, I can see where it would -- then that's great.

      The AlphaSmart -- a self-contained word processor in a keyboard with a 4-line text-only display (like the old Tandy Model 100, but lighter) -- is used in a number of schools as an assist to ADD kids because it lets them focus on their writing rather than playing with fonts or doodling in the margins or getting sucked into computer games. I've seen them advertised to writers for similar reasons. (It dumps your saved text into your WP program of choice by pretending to be a keyboard.)

      --
      -- Alastair
    2. Re:This isn't about productivity by FoolishOwl · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I believe that's the primary point.

      I do, however, think that word processors are badly designed from the point of facilitating writing. Most advice on writing encourages the writer to break the process up into separate phases: brainstorming and free-writing, outlining, writing a draft, revising, revising, and revising. Word processors tend to encourage doing all steps at once, and worse, encourage the writer to choose layout and typesetting options before the writer begins writing, when writers generally shouldn't bother about those details at all. Brainstorming and free-writing are widely recommended practices, that most word processors implicitly discourage, with automatic spelling and grammar checking.

      Nearly everyone I've known who takes writing seriously, student or professional, struggles with minimizing distractions from the writing process. There's something particularly difficult about writing, the process of putting one's thoughts in words which, in itself, cannot be a clear algorithmic process, and most people will be tempted to procrastinate, in the form of doing something that seems related, but isn't really useful. Word processors, with all their layout tweaks available when clicking on bright, attractive buttons, are full of temptations to procrastinate and distract oneself from the writing itself. Even launching a word processor is significantly slower than launching a text editor, and most include a (distracting) splash screen.

      I've never seen a child, assigned to write an essay, who will not fiddle with fonts, layout options, etc., before typing a single word.

      Concentrating on writing in a word processor is like meditating in an amusement park -- with sufficient discipline, it can be done, but it's really not a conducive environment.

      For writing, I think a better approach is, at least, breaking the software tools into two: the actual writing, and the layout. The latter part could often be optional. Most simple text editors, like Notebook or gedit, are more than adequate for writing, revising, saving, and loading, and include basic spell-checking.

    3. Re:This isn't about productivity by ScaryTall · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Concentrating on writing in a word processor is like meditating in an amusement park -- with sufficient discipline, it can be done, but it's really not a conducive environment.

      Actually, it's like meditating in an amusement park while a park employee constantly pokes you and tries to tell you about the rides, and even occasionally tries to pick you up and put you on a ride.

      My biggest ongoing peeve with Word, et al, is not the availability of advanced features, but the persistence with which it insists on applying those advanced features all by itself, whether I've asked it to or not. It's a huge distraction to be constantly interrupted by having to undo some change I never asked the software to make. I don't mind that they're there, but if I wanted that text to be a list or a maybe a heading I'd have used the freakin' I Want This To Be A List or Maybe a Heading button/menu/shortcut.

      I know I can go through and turn all that stuff off, but 1) I can only do that if it's my computer, and 2) it usually takes a while before I find all the things I need to disable. However, at that point I now have what amounts to a $100 text editor. I've had .emacs files that were simpler than my "Make Word Tolerable" routine --- and emacs/vim/etc tends to listen to me when I tell it to do something. With Word, it seems to be more of a suggestion.

  40. Screenshot or it didn't happen by bazorg · · Score: 3, Funny

    How I'd love to see this guy's clutterfree text editor, especially if it's running in a window surrounded by blinking reminders to upgrade Skype, update Java, download the new version of Nokia PC Suite, check whether there are new updates for all Apple applications installed; then the antivirus requires immediate attention because the subscription is due, there's 20 unread Twitter status updates, and everytime a new friend comes online MSN Messenger throws a big party on its side of the screen... Oh yeah, that would be worth writing a big story about productivity.

    1. Re:Screenshot or it didn't happen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A man in India applauded your comment. Aloud.

  41. Cats are too unpredictable by jandoedel · · Score: 3, Funny

    Cats are too unpredictable to be good editors. The last time I let a cat use my keyboard to edit something I wrote, I ended up with page after page of "vnmerhi gbchqeruiph vvj buiphbjnnk wfqÙQSC g[no tyn"

    1. Re:Cats are too unpredictable by Isaac-1 · · Score: 1

      If you think cats are bad, you should see what a macaw can do to a keyboard in under a second.

    2. Re:Cats are too unpredictable by norppalaho · · Score: 2, Funny

      ...in Iceland, a cat predicts you! WL: Eyjafjallajökull

      --
      One of the coolest sites, ever: zombo.com
    3. Re:Cats are too unpredictable by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 1

      you should see what a macaw can do to a keyboard in under a second

      That would certainly explain why crappy writers can churn out their work so fast.

      --
      If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
    4. Re:Cats are too unpredictable by atisss · · Score: 1

      In Soviet Iceland Eyjafjallajökull writes you!

  42. Ooooo, I'm even BETTER, I use a QUILL pen! by MrLizard · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Fetishizing (sp?) the "simplicity" of your tools is every bit as much an act of narcissism as bragging about the ten million bells and whistles on your new HAL-compliant AI Write-Buddy TM that automatically scans TVTropes.org after each sentence to make sure your cliche factor is under 3.5 millilyttons per chapter. (Exact limit can be set via the user, of course, via a series of 16 nested dialog boxes).

    Dude. Write. Or don't write. Just don't write about the tool you use for writing; it's about as dull as possible.

    I've used manual typewriters, TRS-80s, WordStar 1.0, Appleworks, Microsoft Word, a zillion other things, and I have seen almost no difference in my writing speed, which is a pretty steady 500 to 1000 words per hour, depending on what I'm writing. (Fiction, usually, >1000... it's easy, the limit is my finger speed. Game writing, towards the lower end, because I have to check rules, do some math, look up references to see the proper formatting of a skill or a feat or a monster, etc.).

    1. Re:Ooooo, I'm even BETTER, I use a QUILL pen! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Game writing, towards the lower end, because I have to check rules, do some math, look up references to see the proper formatting of a skill or a feat or a monster, etc.).

      You mean fictional game writing? Or when you say "monsters" you are just talking about wild boars etc?

    2. Re:Ooooo, I'm even BETTER, I use a QUILL pen! by MrLizard · · Score: 1

      Fictional game writing, for D&D, Pathfinder, et al. Formatting for such things is often complex and editors are crotchety.

    3. Re:Ooooo, I'm even BETTER, I use a QUILL pen! by ScaryTall · · Score: 1

      Dude. Write. Or don't write. Just don't write about the tool you use for writing; it's about as dull as possible.

      Why not? It wasn't dull enough for you not to comment on it.

    4. Re:Ooooo, I'm even BETTER, I use a QUILL pen! by MrLizard · · Score: 1

      Obviously, I'm very dull.

  43. Typewriter by NixieBunny · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They worked very well for 100 years. If your editor complains that it's too hard to get the words into a computer file, then introduce her to OCR.

    --
    The determined Real Programmer can write Fortran programs in any language.
  44. C-x M-c M-butterfly by Sits · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Perhaps. However, real people know how any *nix "editor" one-upmanship ends:

    C-x M-c M-butterfly.

    'Nuff said.

  45. the real problem by Jeek+Elemental · · Score: 5, Insightful

    is any environment that lets you run eclipse or open office etc. also has firefox 1 click away and hence slashdot or facehook or whatever your particular weakness is.

    Boot to a pure shell and theres atleast some temporal insulation from the howling winds of distraction.

  46. This is just fruit loops! by herojig · · Score: 2, Informative

    Some days I write up to 10,000 words, and it just takes me a 1/2 day. I even get paid for most of it. But there is no freakin way I would ever go back to using anything older then Word 2011 to do the deed. Anyone who considers MS Word a distraction needs to seriously take some meds, or try one-pointed Vajrayana training, or something :)

    --
    I think therefore I can't be ~TTNH
    1. Re:This is just fruit loops! by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      But there is no freakin way I would ever go back to using anything older then Word 2011 to do the deed.

      What isn't older than Word 2011? Is that even out yet?

    2. Re:This is just fruit loops! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you really wrote 10,000 words per day you would know the difference between "then" and "than". Asshole.

    3. Re:This is just fruit loops! by herojig · · Score: 1

      Ha! If I got paid to write on slashdot, I'd be more careful. But thx for the edit.

      --
      I think therefore I can't be ~TTNH
    4. Re:This is just fruit loops! by herojig · · Score: 1

      Been using 2011 for months now - beta and now public release. It's great, if you are into this sorta thing.

      --
      I think therefore I can't be ~TTNH
  47. As a writer myself, here is how I view his point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'll try to explain why the article makes SOME sense (I disagree with using ed or vi, but the concept is sound). When I use Word for my articles, my thought path is interrupted by my spelling, by word wrap, by auto-correct, etc. These things ruin the creative flow when you are doing a mental dump of the story. You don't want to stop for fixing a word. Think of it as context switching - a good writer has no context switching during the first pass process. I can't explain why, but it is not a logical thing, the writer just channels his work into words. The second pass, you MUST use a good word processor like Office Word, or whatnot and you end up touching, rebuilding paragraphs, and rewriting some parts, which brings the novel to a stage where you are happy to show it to an editor and get it published.

    I use Word 2010, but I put it in green monospace font on black (monochrome) and then go fullscreen with ALL autocorrect and suggest turned off. I also have to shut down all IM clients, and other processes that might give my mind a "context switch".

    My point then, is that you CAN use a modern word processor, if you strip it down to the bare functionality. Using vi or ed would make editing difficult in a way that you wouldn't touch any prior words, nor would you see any spelling correct. This is what the author is getting at, I just disagree with the method he used.
     

  48. Well two problems with that by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    One is that you can get most of the advantage (the thick chain and lower maintenance) with an internal geared hub. The gears are, as the name implies, actually in the hub. Costs a bit more than outer gears but not much. They are extremely reliable because they are precision machined and completely sealed. Commuter bikes often feature them (I have a commuter). Not suitable for racing since they have higher resistance, but they do a good job for commuting, hence their use in commuters. You can also get models that use a belt, instead of chain, for even lower maintenance.

    The second is that the hipster cool bikes aren't cheap. You discover that a brand new "fixed gear" (often actually not, just a single speed) bike with the bull horns handle bars and so on can easy run you $500-600. Turns out you can get a commuter for that price, and a nice one at that. I got a Jamis Commuter 3 for about $650.

    Hipsters ride fixed gear (or single speed, since actual fixed gear bikes are harder to ride) because they think it makes them ironically cool, not for any good reason. Retro is hip.

  49. True Believer, I Think Not by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 3, Insightful

    A true believer wouldn't be using a computer at all -- or using the Internet -- or posting to Slashdot.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  50. Real distraction-free software by Homburg · · Score: 2, Funny

    Line based editing? That's just got too many distractions for a real writer.

  51. No kidding by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It is a badge of pride for hipsters to have things that are "retro" and "ironically hard to use." It is all about appearances, functionality has nothing to do with it. They claim it does, but they are lying. A great example is with the bikes. If you look around at what they ride, and I get to do this since I work on a campus and bike to work, you discover that very few actually have a fixed gear bike that one might own for functional reasons. That is to say an old, cheap bike that is truly fixed gear. That has a functional reason to own in that it costs very little to get, and very little to maintain. Almost all of them ride new bikes, which are quite expensive. You search for them, like say a Surly Steamroller which is popular, and you find it is over $700. You can get a nice commuter for less than that (a Jamis Commuter 3 is about $650) which of course features far more hardware and thus ought to cost more (the Commuter 3 has an 8 speed hub, generator light, brakes, rack for a bag, and so on). Also you'll notice that a good number aren't actually fixed gear, they have brakes. They are just single speed bikes.

    The choice is purely one of being "cool". Same reason they often feature bull horn handle bars. That is also hipster cool these days. They are of no use to street riding, and in fact are less practical than a number of other handlebar designs. It is just an appearances thing.

    You are right, that this sounds just the same. "Oh I've gotten back to the roots of writing, I use a really simple tool, and that means I am more in touch with being a writer and that I write better." No it just means you make more errors that your editor has to fix you hipster douche. New word processors don't change what you write, they just make things easier. The creative process is still the same. Of course if you are a hipster that lacks any creativity... :D.

    1. Re:No kidding by Damien1024 · · Score: 1

      Took a little offence to the fixed gear thing, I have a fixed gear bike, it was bought new and cheap, rides well, is fantastic in traffic, except near the pavement riding past a car since it can hit the pavement, but I know I can fix any component on it (ie diskbrakes) and it's very responsive. I'm definitely not a hipster, so maybe it's an age thing, I like the simplicity of certain things, don't like multi-tasking in my free time and believe in single purpose items wherever possible, like my bedroom doesn't have a tv, I don't read emails or chat online while watching tv, etc. While I don't think it'd be great for typos and such I feel this would be a good way of getting the material down as a first draft ? Like a programmer coding, but continuously working out a better way to do it and going back to fix / refactor etc, there's just no forward progression or completion on the horizon.

    2. Re:No kidding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Whether or not you have a brake has nothing to do whether it's a fixed gear bike (the brake isn't connected to the gear system at all); the important consideration is that the bike has no freewheel or freehub mechanism, i.e. the rear wheel and the chain gear are connected such that one cannot move without the other (and vice-versa)

    3. Re:No kidding by GWBasic · · Score: 1

      It is a badge of pride for hipsters to have things that are "retro" and "ironically hard to use."

      I used to have a roommate who had a fixed gear bike. He loved it because he used clips, and thus when he'd have to stop at lights, he could balance without unclipping.

      You sound like an old geezer from the 1960s whining about hippies!

    4. Re:No kidding by bar-agent · · Score: 1

      I used to have a roommate who had a fixed gear bike. He loved it because he used clips, and thus when he'd have to stop at lights, he could balance without unclipping.

      Offtopic, but I gotta say I think clips are just a broken ankle waiting to happen.

      --
      i'd hit it so hard, if you pulled me out you'd be the king of britain [bash.org]
    5. Re:No kidding by GWBasic · · Score: 1

      I agree, but the people who wear them do so because they can pull on the pedal.

  52. Why not CP/M ? by OrangeTide · · Score: 4, Funny

    Get yourself a CP/M machine and write your novels on that 64kB at a time. Like a Kaypro II or maybe an Osborne 1 would probably be your best bet. Although a C128 or AppleII with Z80 card would would be usable as well.
    A Xerox 820 II with 8" disk drives would also be fun, but they are a little pricey on ebay in working condition, especially if it had the 8086 expansion board for CP/M-86 or MS-DOS.

    Then to send it up to your PC you can use the serial port, which was often used for printers on CP/M, so you might be able to just hit "print" to transmit to your PC.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:Why not CP/M ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I actually use a Tandy WP2 for writing on. Battery lasts ~30-40 hours of use, screen is daylight readable (in fact the brighter the light the more readable it becomes...), turns on instantly, it's A4 sized and you can pick them up for £10 on eBay.

      You do however need a serial cable to get the stuff off it (although it's a fairly painless process).

  53. Mirrors my experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    As someone who is working on their fourth book, I've come to do all of my initial composition in a plain text editor. After I've finished my first draft (straight ahead, just like the OP says), I take it into OpenOffice and use my publisher's official formatting style sheets. Yes, they fully support the files that oo.org makes. Personally, I don't do 1,000 words a day every day. I do 1,500 to 2,000 per day, four days a week. That lets me miss days without feeling the weight of deadline pressure.

    But yeah, I use plain text to get the words on the page.

  54. Less distraction by noidentity · · Score: 1

    I think his point is that ed is less distraction (though I've never used, so I don't really know for sure). If all you can do is write your sentences, or invoke terse commands that you don't use, then you might be more focused. Sort of like using a machine with no internet connection, for example, if one lacks mental discipline. So what if it's a crutch; if it helps, use it.

  55. WordGrinder by david.given · · Score: 0

    I was faced with precisely this problem a few years ago. I ended up wroting a tool called WordGrinder: it's a console-mode word processor that supports just enough style to be useful (italics, underline, etc) and a clutter-free display. If you run it in a full screen terminal, you can configure it so that the only thing visible on the screen are your words.

    It's not a text editor; it's a word processor, which means it's oriented around prose, so it understands paragraphs, wrapping, it renders italics and underline in an appropriate manner (termcap emphasis and underline respectively), it's got word count, paragraph count, etc, it's got some basic features like table-of-contents navigation (allowing to skip around very big documents quickly), subdocuments, scratchpad documents, and so on. The interface is menu-driven but you can rebind any menu item to any hotkey, which means you can configure it pretty much as you like. And it supports Unicode, so you're not limited to writing in English.

    I've written about 70k words on it, and it works very well. As far as I know it is the only application in its particular niche for Unices; I get a small but steady stream of downloads. It'll even run on Windows but looks pretty sucky (I've been working on a better GDI renderer for Windows, but, well, the Windows GDI API is pretty sucky too and it's harder than it looks).

    1. Re:WordGrinder by Homburg · · Score: 1

      That's a really nice program. A lot of these minimal text editors are too minimal, dropping genuinely useful semantic styling (italics, block quotes, lists) along with the formatting distractions of word processors; Wordgrinder looks like it gets the balance pretty much right.

  56. Author also telnet'd to port 80 to put up article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL! I also noted & remembered using edlin in early-to-mid level versions of DOS circa 2.0-3.3 era iirc. EDIT came along after that, wasn't all THAT bad either, but edlin was atrocious, on the level of vi *NIX unwieldy.

    APK

    P.S.=> See subject-line: This author may be set "back in time" & do things ala my subject-line above, lol, & his usage of an ANCIENT text editor program, but... well, personally, I like more modern versions of software's personally, things get better with more abilities, & thus becoming more powerful too as well as aesthetically pleasing + easy to use.

    Microsoft Word 2010 is what I like currently & for the past whoever knows how many versions since Microsoft Word 2.0 for Windows came out in 16/32/64 bit to today presently (basically from the time after Word kicked WordPerfect 7 for DOS thru WordPerfect for Windows butt to the door here, I'd guess from somewhere around 1994 or so, to now, iirc)... apk

  57. Is using old software the new indie thing? by Dreth · · Score: 1

    I don't get the point of this writer. Is it too much of him to type 1,000 words in just about any word processing program out there? Is he too distracted by the GUI? Purdy colors? Amazingly advanced techniques such as Bold, Italics and Underline? Fine, he finds efficiency for his purpose in an application from 30 years ago, but what really is his purpose other than typing and reaching 1,000 words each day?

    --
    All glory to Arstotzka!
  58. learning ed is learning sed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I started with ed 30 years or so ago and graduated to vi shortly after (via "learn"). But knowing ed means I know how to write sed scripts, which I still use.

  59. Oh, you're lazy enough to use a shell? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Real men boot with init=/bin/cat and leave the rest as an exercise for the reader.

  60. Writer here by hessian · · Score: 1

    I use EditPad Lite:

    http://www.editpadlite.com/

    I then use Perl scripts to convert text markup to RTF for publisher documents.

    I do this so I have minimal interface getting in the way of the work process. It's almost as good as handwriting (using an m600 with Florida Blue ink) but it's easier to revise this way.

  61. I an a graphic designer... by gagol · · Score: 2, Funny

    I do all my text editing using Adobe Illustrator... I like things complicated!

    --
    Tomorrow is another day...
  62. Focuswriter? by mcclungsr · · Score: 1

    I believe this is the reason things like focuswriter exist. I am not a writer, but I can certainly understand removing distractions.

  63. How idiotic can you be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can not imagine something more stupid. I mean what's the point? You can live without a modern word processors? Sure you can. Why stop at ed? Why not use a typewriter? Or, use a pad and a pencil? What the fuck was this idiot trying to do and what did he discover/prove? Was he more productive using ed? There's no proof of that.

    1. Re:How idiotic can you be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Haha. This should have been modded well up but unfortunately most people on Slashdot post at +2 or +3 minimum, meaning they get to indulge in nerd circle-jerks and miss drive-by wisdom -- such as people pointing out that this "author" is a moron.

  64. You CLEARLY don't get it by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Syntax? Spelling? This is a WRITER, not a secretary. He wants to put what he has in his mind in some medium that can then be further processed later. By an editor/proof reader. He doens't need to highlight things.

    What he explored was how much do we REALLY need? IF he can write, then does he need to re-edit what he wrote? I do, but then I can't write. My thoughts are all over the place and I need to go back in a sentence to reword it. Or do I? Is the reason I can't write because I keep re-editing what I wrote until it has lost all passion?

    The fastest cars on the earth are also some of the simplest, or were for a long time. If you got ABS on a motor cycle, you CAN NOT brake as hard as if you didn't have it. The tolerance that ABS brings means a skilled driver can brake harder without. If you are NOT skilled, then ABS is better.

    So is he skilled or not?

    And finally, on error-checking. While useful, in some editors it has become so advanced it tries to correct you even when what your wrote is correct but it just doesn't understand it. Imagine some of the best writers if they were constrained by what their spell checker would allow them to do.

    But what this really is about, proffesional writer claims he works better without all the bells and whistle. Unknown nobody claims this is not true. I take the writers word for it that he writers faster without over yours. Hope this doesn't offend you. Damn spell check, should have been DOES.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:You CLEARLY don't get it by icebike · · Score: 1

      But what this really is about, proffesional writer claims he works better without all the bells and whistle. Unknown nobody claims this is not true. I take the writers word for it that he writers faster without over yours. Hope this doesn't offend you. Damn spell check, should have been DOES.

      So you immediately assume I'm not a professional writer? Based on what?

      Has it occurred to you that the story is here on /. because it is novel, unusual, and bucks the trend?

      That means of course that the vast majority of writers use word processors.

      Why is it you value the word of the odd-man-out over the overwhelmingly larger body of writers?

      Or was is just a convenient cheap shot?

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    2. Re:You CLEARLY don't get it by eugene+ts+wong · · Score: 2, Informative

      I totally agree with you. I truly believe that if an author can't edit his own work, then he can't write.

      As for doing 1000 words in an hour and a half, I don't count his 1000 words, as 1000 words, because that's only brainstorming words. If I have to write 100 words, then I would prefer to give myself a full hour, to type it out, proof read for the overall flow, proof read again, for small grammatical and spelling errors, and then make a final check. In between those steps, I will make several checks for user friendly readability.

      When I write, I rarely think about the tools that I use. If I need to make a PDF, then I'll use a word processor. If I'm just writing on /. or in my blog, then I'll just use the text box.

      I had a difficult time reading the summary and story, because I couldn't figure out what he was trying to do.

  65. With Nano coming up by ducomputergeek · · Score: 1

    I do all my fun creative writing on my 12.1" powerbook. Well at least I did until it finally died and I'm not putting any more money into a 6 year old laptop to fix it. Personally, I loved the keyboard on that series of laptop, much better than the newer macbook pros.

    I was testing novel writing software as my preference (Jer's novel writer) had not been updated in several years. So I tested out Scrindiver and StoryMill and both ran like dogs on the older powerbook. Recently Jer's been making updates to the software and it is what I'm using once again.

    It doesn't do anything fancy, but does have a nice database tool to easily keep track of characters, items, places, and other pieces of research. Other than that it's a simple text editor. No fancy having to create "Chapters" then "scenes" or other more complex layouts. It does just enough formatting for manuscripts and then stays the hell out of my way and lets me write.

    --
    "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
  66. ed is the standard UNIX text editor by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

    ed is the standard UNIX text editor!!!

  67. Stifling your inner text editor by AlejoHausner · · Score: 1

    Posters here are missing a big point about the process of creative writing: when you write, two parts of your mind are at work: the creator and the critic. The creator comes up with the material. The critic edits the material, worries about punctuation, spelling, over-all structure, the fact that the phone bill is overdue, your spouse's opinion of your work, street noise, paragraph formatting, etc.

    The critic's main role is to say "NO". "You can't say that". "You spelled that wrong". "That word is hyphenated badly". "You should close quotation marks after the period." (I just noticed that) etc.

    The problem with wysiwyg word processors like MS Word and their kin is that they show you nice formatted paragraphs (encouraging you to worry about hyphenation), underline misspelled words (making you go back and fix them), even criticize you grammar. By its very nature, a word processor engages the inner critic.

    I have learned that the best way to write is to 1: make a mess; 2: clean it up (see "Writing your dissertation in fifteen minutes a day"). It's best to just write, let the words come out in a mess, maybe complain about the fact that the words aren't coming out, anything to get the pipeline going. Only at the end of the session, when you're done writing, should you go back over the text, fixing things up. Fixing up text is easy, once the text exists. However, creating the text is hard, if you're always stopping to fix it up.

    That's why ed is a wise choice. It disables the inner critic. It has no spelling checker, no grammar checking, doesn't format as you type. It's wonderful.

    Alejo

    1. Re:Stifling your inner text editor by ch-dickinson · · Score: 1

      You state my case very well. Many novelists don't get the book done because they spend time writing the "perfect" Chapter One (that is, going back and fiddling before they finish creating the oneness of the "one mess.")

  68. How about just going fullscreen? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I fired up Gedit and hit F11 (just like you sometimes accidentally do on Firefox). The result was a fullscreen text editor. It's actually quite nice...

  69. Suggestion by superdana · · Score: 1

    You might have a look at u—, a new distraction-free writing environment:
    http://www.kungfugrippe.com/post/1169153343/only-you

  70. douche... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I ride a fixed single-speed bike"

    That's settled, you're a douche.

  71. The big advantage of a word processor for a writer by hey! · · Score: 1

    is when you pass an electronic manuscript around for review. You can read the comments and make changes right there. Unfortunately, that forces into doc format because everybody in the world can handle that.

    It shouldn't be too much of a problem as long as you don't try to do fancy formatting. In fact, you shouldn't even use italics, bold, underline etc. Rather you should follow the conventions used for typewritten mansucripts. Why? Because some editors don't like them, and they're not really necessary. The conventions like _italics or underline this way_ and *bold this way* are good enough and work when excerpts are send through text only email. These amount to commonly understood semantic markup.

    Restructured text (RST) is really quite an interesting way to bridge the gap between plain text and a formatted manuscript. It pretty much handles all the typographical things an author should worry about (which is not much) and can generate html, postscript or pdf with a few simple tools. RST would be be close to ideal, except then you have to go back to doc files when you send the manuscript out for review.

    What the world really needs is format expressly designed for the needs of authors and editors. That would provide for revision tracking, commenting, and outlining but in a worst case scenario would allow the text to be reconstructed with a text editor.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  72. try before you judge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After reading a similar article in 2006 I started writing in vim. Today after two masters and some post graduate I'm still viming. I write and edit faster, with fewer distraction and more control. I still use a word processor but only at the final stage for formatting; most classes require Microsoft files. I know at least five high volume (two award winning) writers working for major newspapers that use GUI text editors for the same reasons; a number of papers require their staff to use NewsEdit Pro or Adobe InCopy both very similar to text editors. Before judging in ignorance I would encourage all to give it a go. Write for one week in the text editor of your choice and judge for yourself. I for one will give ed a try, if it works great if not then I've lost nothing.

  73. Word Perfect 5.1 for DOS by FlyingGuy · · Score: 1

    The Pinnacle of Word Processing Programs, everything else has been a down hill slide.

    --
    Hey KID! Yeah you, get the fuck off my lawn!
    1. Re:Word Perfect 5.1 for DOS by MarkvW · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm a lawyer. My best, by far, experience was with WP 5.1 for DOS. It was fast and I could make it do anything I wanted it to do via the macros. I really liked it, though, when I understood the merge codes. I was able to make any kind of form that I wanted using macros and merge codes.

      Word is genetically malformed ecoli. It's "form fields" are kludgy crap. It's "fields" are a sloppy afterbirth. Their merge process is grossly incomplete. Using a template with macros to create another template is a recipe for a brain seizure. It is garbage created by committee. It's about as unified as Afghanistan.

      Sure, you can do anything you want with Word--but it won't be simple, it won't be well received by other users, and you'll have to study how you did something before you ever replicate it.

      I use the damn program because my employer is welded to it. For some reason they are in love with paying the extreme price that MS demands.

      And I understand the object model, but I still hate it. Programming in Word should be easy by now, but it's not. It's basically the same as it was when VBA was brought into Word.

      The only satisfaction is that open source WILL kill word. And I will be glad. And I will still look back fondly on WP 5.1.

    2. Re:Word Perfect 5.1 for DOS by FlyingGuy · · Score: 1

      There was once a Unix version of WP 5.1 If you look around hard enough you can probably find it.

      --
      Hey KID! Yeah you, get the fuck off my lawn!
  74. Q ^7%$3 to satisfy the censor by koona · · Score: 1

    Q

  75. If He's Feeling Frisky by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He could try Electric Pencil on a TRS-80, then go wild with WordStar on an 8086 IBM PC with cassette port.

    But that may be too high tech for him.

    http://www.trs-80.org/electric-pencil/

    http://www.wordstar.org/wsdos/pages/downloads.htm

  76. Article or Ad? by Exitar · · Score: 1

    From the writer's site:
    "Beginning October 1, 2010, the inaugural title of the press will be available here as a free serial"
    and
    "Printed copies of The Wire Donkey are available from booksellers everywhere, including the following that take orders online: Powells, Barnes and Noble, Amazon, and Books-A-Million."

    1. Re:Article or Ad? by ch-dickinson · · Score: 1

      Yes, a reader could see it that way. But that's selective & away from the overall point of my post. I had, with ed, an individual approach to writing a novel draft in ~72 days. So the question for the slashdot reader is simply: Fine, but is what he writes dreck? The link to cetus-editions was only to give, gratis (free download), the slashdot reader a chance to decide if I write fiction well or not.

  77. Linux distro? by altinos.com · · Score: 1

    Wasn't there a Linux distro that would boot right into a text editor?

    1. Re:Linux distro? by dbIII · · Score: 2, Informative

      Easy to do:
      /etc/inittab: Change the runlevel
      id:3:initdefault:

      /etc/passwd: Change the shell for the user to an editor
      fire:x:501:502::/home/fire:/usr/bin/vim

  78. You can reduce your keyboard to strings with FOSS by spaceturtle · · Score: 1

    You don't need to buy Macaw, you can do the same with opensource utilities: cat keyboard | strings

  79. Tandy TRS-80 Model 100 by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    The WP2 was a great little system, like a beefed up Model 100. I would actually recommend a Model 600, which gave you 8x40 character display and a larger keyboard in a clamshell formfactor. It also runs on 4 AAs for around 10-12 hours.

    What's funny is a skilled hobbyist could build one of these on the cheap. Text LCDs are cheap, powerful microcontrollers with 32k or more RAM are cheap (about $1.50 for a 32-bit ARM).

    Although funny thing is I never saw a tech hobbyist build the ideal word processor for a writer on the go. Even though it is a straight forward project in my opinion.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  80. Echo and pipe it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Alias some letter or char to echo >> file, and you've got something even simpler than ed. What's the damned point?

  81. Adobe InCopy is pretty much this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Except you end up paying way way waaaaaaay too much money for it. I think the only neat trick is that you put formatting tags on stuff and hide them. (But it's not that fancy, it's just XML.) All the real formatting and layout is done to the text file later using InDesign or whatever.

    Those not wanting to blow their money for this type of work can probably get by ok using something like Notepad++ and Scribus.

  82. Ah, Kaypro by calidoscope · · Score: 1

    I get a reminder of Kaypro every day when I drop my daughter off at school - get a very good view of the self-storage facility that used to be the Kaypro plant when leaving the drop-off point.

    --
    A Shadeless room is a brighter room.
  83. on fixies by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

    I have a 21-speed (7-speed, really, because the front derailleur's stuck in 2; since I never shifted much in the front anyways, I never bothered getting that fixed)

    I can accelerate off the line a lot faster, making it preferable in stop-and-go traffic.

    Indeed, a geared bike might be more appropriate for what I do by that standard, as I head down bike/walking trails for most of my most-used route.

    a lot less maintenance and replacement of fidgety bits

    Yeah, I've gotten a lot of aggravation from busted derailleurs; I can agree on this one. Then again, I've also had a lot of grief come from flat tires, a problem you can't avoid. [Flat tires and improperly adjusted pressure brakes are straightforward to deal with, but still aggravating when they crop up.]

    -

    I've never got close to 40 or 60 mph though, though my next bike will probably be somewhat faster.

    Yeah, I probably should add fenders, but even in proper gearing, going down steep hills is still a bitch.

    --
    I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
  84. Obligatory MC Lars reference by KingAlanI · · Score: 1
    --
    I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
  85. Nonfiction slower, indeed by KingAlanI · · Score: 1

    A lot of my nonfiction writing is indeed slower, because I have to do both the work of the academic assignment and the technical task of typing.

    --
    I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
  86. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Well you probably did not try Writemokey

    http://writemonkey.com/features.php

  87. Did you ride your fixy to the coffee shop 1st? by supercrisp · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Others are posting on this, but I thought I'd post as someone who teaches creative, academic, and professional writing--and who has training in the pedagogical theory and assorted gobbledygook (ie theories I don't like). Yes, eliminating distractions as you draft is very helpful. And some people find it helpful to switch the tool or the context when drafting. Probably the best way to draft is to force yourself to write, with whatever tool, in 15-20 minute sprints, with no correction, pausing to think, or whatever. For more on this, you can read Writing with Power by the unfortunately named Peter Elbow. And, yes, a text editor is one way to avoid distractions, but so is a little discipline. Others opt for a legal pad. I myself use a legal pad with blue or black ink. Or I use MS Word or a "light" option for the Mac called Bean. When I'm writing stuff that feels good, I type in black. When it feels like it might not work, I type in blue. So blue is my code for "relax." I never use a text editor, but I can see why you would, if you're the sort of obsessive person who also thinks that a text editor merits a review with instructions for use, or if you're the sort of person who will choose a text editor so poor for you purpose that you have to talk about byte counts. But let's face it, writing those reviews, fiddling around with bite counts, looking for the perfect text editor that will blank our your screen and has a single-keystroke function to load content from lifehacker or the latest theories on sleep technology, well, that's all just a technique for PROCRASTINATION. My favorite advice on that is from an anecdote about Faulkner. He was once asked by a woman how he got inspired to write. He replied that he only wrote when he was inspired, and he was inspired every morning at eight.

  88. Non linear writing. by ResidentSourcerer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I don't write like that. When I've taken on a large writing project -- an outdoor program safety manual -- I found myself jumping around like crazy. I'd work on one section for a while, and something I'd write would remind me of something else in an entirely different section. So I'd open another file, and at least scribble down the idea.

    Ed is fine if you are an author that writes a list of chapter headings, then 10-12 points for each chapter, then you start at the front and write to the end.

    From my perspective, a text processor (no formatting controls) needs to have, at minimum:
    * outlining
    * folding
    * multiple file capability.

    *****

    As a sidelight, while unix/linux has lots of good text processors, (I like geany and vim) I'm *still* looking for a good formatting system.

    * Don't tell me about TeX. If you want to do your own template in TeX you've got quite a learning curve.

    * I gave up on Abiword and Open Office both because of irregular crashes that lost all work. Neither has documentation that is worth a damn. Neither has good support for styles.

    So I still use Adobe FrameMaker 5.56 Beta when I have to make more than a few pages pretty.

    --
    Third Career: Tree Farmer Second Career: Computer Geek First Career: Teacher, Outdoor Instructor, Photographer.
  89. OCR: Outputs Crap Reliably? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gotta give those reCAPTCHA guys something to do, right? ^_~

  90. the easy way vs. the hard by pinkwarhol · · Score: 1

    I've noticed that many people often seem almost personally offended by others explicitly choosing to not use some popular modern technology...

    Most people don't understand Luddite-type choices. We (Americans at least) live in a culture with an emphasis on automative (er...sic) technology to "make life easier". And while the argument is often made that the omnipresent devices and inventions that make our lives easier are time-saving technologies that allow us to trade work for more free time to spend on family-and-friends/leisure activities, I feel that they mostly just allow us to live in a kind of 'automatic pilot'. By this I mean that "the hard way", which often takes longer and requires more of our attention or labor, forces us into making deliberate and conscious decisions about the hows and whys of our activities. I value this 'deliberateness' because it makes me live in the present moment, fully aware.

    For example, I have been riding a bicycle (also fixed...but that's neither here nor there) 9 miles to school daily, and around town with trips of similar distance for a couple of years now, and yet still have friends that know it's my personal choice try to pick me up and give me rides. Sometimes when the bike transporation comes up in conversation I feel like I have to tell people that I DO own a car, I just choose to ride the bike, and not solely or even primarily for monetary reasons. What it comes down to for me is that my lifestyle and feel form my personal world/community context have been fundamentally transformed by this discipline. When I ride I am much more aware of the area I'm traversing, the people I'm passing, the energy it takes to get me from here to there. (which has really changed my relationship to food.) And when I do drive, it's not an automatic activity that I take for granted. Instead I'm aware of the costs, environmentally, monetarily, and otherwise, that I almost never thought about when I drove as my primary means of transportation.

    This is just one example, but if you try something similar - taking the hard way instead of the easier technology-assisted way - I believe this aspect of 'deliberateness' will become very apparent.

    (and yeah, I understand a bicycle is a piece of technology.)

  91. After vim and ed... by worf_mo · · Score: 1

    In the discussion following Dickinson's essay "Word Processors: One Writer's Retreat", reader coult already knew that ed would come next.

  92. jdarkroom by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've used jdarkroom It is a very simple text editor which puts the focus on the writing. ymmv.

  93. Funny, I'm just porting ED to a new machine... by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

    It'll soon be available for ICL 1900 series mainframes running George 3.

    Could be useful for this guy?

    --
    Watch this Heartland Institute video
  94. My ex the writer by figa · · Score: 1

    My ex wrote a novel that was published by Viking a few years ago and got a fair amount of critical acclaim.

    When she first started working on it, in '99, I gave her my old laptop with Debian and Gedit. She did 50 or so pages, and then decided to move to Word to print it out. All the line-breaks were messed up, and she never forgave me. I did eventually set her up with a nice netbook and Openoffice, but it was too late, and now we're divorced.

    She went from Gedit, which she hated to Word, which she hated, to OpenOffice, which she admires for its ability to reproduce all the defects in Word. On a good day, it's a tool, and like any tool, if you use it regularly, at some point you're going to hurt yourself with it.

    If anything is a distraction, it's not the editor, cursor, or background color, it's wifi. Get a laptop with a Broadcom chipset, and you'll be incredibly productive.

    I still get half the royalties from the book, so buy it and help me pay for my child support.