Slashdot Mirror
Debt Collectors Using Facebook To Embarrass Those Who Owe
Not even the tranquility of FarmVille can save you from the long arm of debt collectors. Melanie Beacham says that a collector from MarkOne Financial contacted her relatives about her past due car note via Facebook. She is filing suit alleging that the company is harassing her family. Tampa based consumer attorney Billy Howard of Morgan & Morgan says, "Now Facebook does a debt collectors work for them. Now it's not only family members, it's all of your associates. It's a very powerful tool for debt collectors to use."
Communication with third parties: revealing or discussing the nature of debts with third parties (other than the consumer's spouse or attorney) (Collection agencies are allowed to contact neighbors or co-workers but only to obtain location information; disreputable agencies often harass debtors with a "block party" or "office party" where they contact multiple neighbors or co-workers telling them they need to reach the debtor on an urgent matter.)
And if they posted something on your wall, that could fall under a number of these laws. Hell, if you consider 'Facebook' an embarrassing media:
Contact by embarrassing media, such as communicating with a consumer regarding a debt by post card, or using any language or symbol, other than the debt collector’s address, on any envelope when communicating with a consumer by use of the mails or by telegram, except that a debt collector may use his business name if such name does not indicate that he is in the debt collection business
And if the debt collection's profile wasn't MARKONE DEBT COLLECTOR I'd be looking at that sort of shadiness as well.
Having been the subject of a mysterious $180 debt collection put on my credit report over six years after they allege it happened in 2003 with no attempts to contact me until two months ago, I implore this woman to seek more than just a court order against MarkOne but instead to get the law amended now that social network websites are prevalent. They are a new form of contact medium that exposes far more information than the phone book and the current laws should apply or be updated minimally to reflect this.
If you're wondering about my $180, I contacted them immediately. After getting all my current information so they could commence harassment, they told me to log onto some third party site and contest it. I did. Three weeks later I got a judgment: REMAINS. I was informed that, short of litigious action, that was the extent of my rights in that situation.
My work here is dung.
These jackasses know no bounds. Somehow a debt collector got my number thinking I was someone else and wouldn't top calling. Finally I had the phone company block the number because they wouldn't stop calling.
Is great. I don't know where it was found, but it could apply to so many headlines.
How does it feel to be a liar with pants constantly on fire?
A. Pay your debts
B. Go to your account settings in Facebook so that people can't mine all this information about you. Pass this tip along to your family and friends.
I got back to the country after six months to find two dozen garbled voicemails from a debt collector. My voicemail message stated that I was out of the country and could be reached at a certain e-mail address. It turns out the hospital had misfiled a claim and the insurance providers contract with that hospital required that claims be filed properly within six months. The hospital ate it, but not before I went through weeks of torture. Try explaining to a debt collector over the phone that the bill was a mistake and that it is being taken care of. The response being in poor english: "I don't understand sir, why don't you just give me your credit card information..." They threaten to have your house/vehicles taken away and will do anything to get the money, because they get a large cut of the debt. Had they simply listened to the voicemail message, they could have gotten their money properly.
I can see why embarrassing someone with the goal of shaming them into paying their debts may be an effective tactic, but this may not be technically illegal.
It's illegal to discuss the nature of the debt but you are allowed to contact other people to try to "locate" that person. Saying "I'm with MarkOne Financial, do you know how I can reach this person who it says is your sister" is probably legal, saying "Did you know your sister hasn't paid her car payment in 6 months" is not.
TFA leaves out the important details.
This is why there are "privacy" settings on Facebook. This person probably had their profile open to everyone and allowed anyone to see their friends list. It wouldn't take too long to locate someone with the same last name.
I think this style of approach should be perfectly allowable, but it should be regulated because one can obviously go too far. Not sure what form this regulation would take.. maybe some kind of government run website where people not paying their bills are listed.
Personally on the whole financial debt/credit issue.. I think both sides need a good dose of reality.
You have banks which specifically target and hope for people to get into crippling debt, because this is how they make their money.
You have consumers who go through credit cards like candy.. and even when the bills and creditors are calling, still think nothing of getting a new credit card and buying a new computer they don't really need.
You have bancruptcy as (or atleast percieved) an "easy out".
And you have collections agencies literally driving some to suicide.
And yes, I know people get into debt for reasons beyond their control. Illness probably being the big one. But I think if you live beyond your means for no other reason than you can.. then you get what you've got coming when debt collectors pull this shit.
If this has happened to you, file a complaint with the FTC and get legal council and sue.
RIP America
July 4, 1776 - September 11, 2001
McJob? No such thing. Work is work, and nonwork is nonwork. I absolutely agree about your advice to pay one's bills and avoid the embarrassment of bill collection. But let's not put down people who do menial work. There but for the grace of God go I. I am fortunate to have a good education and the opportunities to sit on my butt at a desk all day, getting fat and a bad heart and building a nice retirement account. They (people working the grill or the counter) are fortunate to be moving around, interfacing with people, and bringing home a paycheck (and maybe getting free food).
it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
You have the right to demand that any collection action be done in writing and no calls to ones job or family, friends etc. However how that plays out on public social media is unknown. While there are rules about harassment and such would posting 'you owe us money and are late' constitute such? I have been late on a payment with a bank - by 1 week mind you - and had 5-8 calls a day on my cell phone using different numbers to cover who they were. Disgusting yes but illegal no.
You do know they can't reply if the modded? or did something change?
Anyways, ti's not that simple and you know it. You were probably marked troll because you are making a trollish statement.
There can be many, many reason whys someone doesn't pay there bills. For example, after the .com bust, I was out of work for a number of months, and yes some bill went unpaid for a while. People have unexpected medical expenses and life changes. There are perfectly valid reasons for not paying a debt. But you went for the troll response.
honestly, it probably is somewhat trollish, but really--scuba has stated his opinion (common slashdot) and expressed his potential solution to the problem noted in the article (also common on slashdot) while backing this up with his personal experience (pretty much universal on /.).
I don't know the specifics of the law and I admit that. But if this kind of thing is illegal, why hasn't it been happening for years?
This isn't necessarily an internet-specific issue, either. If this is legal, then what's to stop them from printing a list of "PEOPLE WHO OWE MONEY" in a newspaper ad? True, that costs money. But is it just the cost of the ad that has kept them from it?
What if they were to put a website up with a list of everyone who is more than a couple months behind on their payment? And why simply contact my relatives on Facebook? Why not post on my Facebook wall about how I don't pay my debts and shouldn't be trusted, or something to that extent? Sure, I can delete it. But I probably won't notice immediately, and if they're going after shame . . . that's the ticket.
Regardless of legality, I hope we can agree that this is disgusting.
Harassing people!
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
I wasn't actually deriding menial labor, I've spent my time there as well :) I was using it as a simple job that can be gotten with pretty much no effort to bring in some income until a more suitable situation can be found.
I generally agree.
I think all sides are a bit extreme in a lot of these debt situations.
Banks and creditors should do more to protect people from themselves (obviously this is counter to their goals.. they make money by keeping people in debt as long as possible).
Consumers should be more financially responsible. Yes, there are cases where it is unavoidable (illness for instance).. but I have little sympathy for people who simply live beyond their means because they can.
Debt collection needs to be much more regulated. A little gental harrassment and public shaming.. fine.. but these cases you hear where people are driven to suicide need to stop. Also you hear about people being mistakenly targetted.. this needs to stop as well.
My general belief is that one should never use credit to buy something that costs less than one paycheck. Just wait until you actually _have_ the money. Obviously stuff like houses, credit is (barely) worth it.. because we want a house now, not when we are 60, and are willing to fork out an obscene amount of extra money over the long term to get it sooner. I almost think this should become a law. There is _no reason_ to rack up debt to buy a stereo.
Of course you have your rights to privacy, and you can even change your privacy settings as much as you want. But everyone needs to remember that going on to the web is the same as going to the grocery store. You're in a public place and there is only so much that you can hide. Boost your privacy settings, or even more simple, pay your bills!
Yeah! And screw those AHOLES who run up debt that they normally can afford but are then slammed with tens-to-hundreds of thousands in medical bills like the selfish, greedy pricks they are. Christ almighty, if they just laid down and died, THEN they'd have an excuse to skip on their debts.
Preach on, angry brotha-man. Stick it to the poor, sick people.
Ever since last week's rumors began about the new Facebook e-mail system supposedly designed to kill Gmail, Hotmail and Yahoo! Mail, I began to wonder why I'm not more enamored with the service. And now I think I know why. I see Facebook as the next iteration of AOL.
I was never a huge fan of AOL once the Internet came along. It had its moments, yes, back when the competition was BBS systems and peer-to-peer download sites. But once dial-up went away, the service began to fall apart and never fully modernized. If it could have modernized, it would be exactly like Facebook.
Facebook offers a closed experience much like AOL; it's comfortable place people go and check in. All that was ever missing from Facebook to make the relation more obvious was e-mail and a deep voice saying "You've got mail."
In this analogy, MySpace is actually Compuserve. Myspace is a little rougher edged than Facebook, just as Compuserve was a rougher edged version of AOL.
When the Internet came along, there was a lot of denial regarding the future of these services, and they managed to stay afloat by becoming conduits into the Internet when they should have been conduits from the Internet. The model was backwards.
Eventually, AOL bought Compuserve, and right at the peak of its popularity, it managed to merge with Time-Warner before its long slide to marginalization.
Facebook is AOL II. Only it began where AOL left off. If Facebook decides to buy MySpace sometime in the future, the analogy would be perfect.
In the end, AOL was stopped by the invention of the World Wide Web. And it took six or seven years before anyone noticed that the Internet gave you everything AOL gave you, only for free.
What's interesting to me about Facebook is that the user paradigm is skewed to be user-centric rather than Facebook-centric. Or so it seems. Everyone has their own virtual website with everything is centered around it. MySpace also uses this model. This was pioneered by LiveJournal, from what I can tell, but was taken to the extreme by MySpace then perfected by Facebook.
It was a different era when AOL was around, and this inside-out concept was never considered. The MySpace/Facebook idea is also different from the vanity pages and Geocities concepts because it's more like a gated community (like LiveJournal) than just tract homes (Geocities).
I was never sure that any of these folks actually knew what they were doing, but instead thought they were flying by their seat of their pants. Seeing that it has taken so long to add the email paradigm just confirms it my assumtion. Even the name "Face" "Book" is moronic, although I've never heard anyone point that out.
In other words, LiveJournal, MySpace, and Facebook are all sitting ducks for a genuine visionary who can take this to the next level. I sure hope Facebook isn't the end of the lineage. And since it took so long to bury AOL once the process began, we can expect the same with Facebook, but in the meantime, we'll just keep hearing more and more and more about Facebook in the years ahead. Ugh
Heck, they might well be somebody else's bills.
"Same address - must be the same person" is how many of them operate.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Yes, because every time someone can't pay a debt it is because they "ran up" their credit card, not because they lost their job, had an illness, or has their entire region wiped out by a flood. Asshat.
You do know they can't reply if the modded? or did something change?
They can by posting anonymously from a different browser, or clearing their cookies.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Would this persons situation NOT have been prevented by not simply paying their bills?
1) Erroneous attribution of a debt to you that is not your debt.
2) An error by the company you paid your bill to, making them think you haven't paid when you actually have.
3) Mail/On-line banking/transaction problems
4) Recordkeeping errors at billing company or debt collection company
5) A scam.
There, FIVE things that could get you calls from debt collectors when you pay your bills on time.
I've personally experienced the second one where the company cashed my payment check and did not credit it to my account.
The actually acknowledged that my check was cashed, but still demanded that I pay them again!!! I contacted the Attorney General for my state and they convinced them to stop calling.
Suffice it to say, simply paying your bills does not necessarily keep collectors at bay.
Welcome to Slashdot moderation. Support personal privacy, unlimited freedom of expression, and hardline consumer protectionism or be crushed...
Again, speaking from my own experience a few phone calls/faxes of proof of payment has fixed any issues I've encountered. (1) can be provided if you present a utility bill for your current location, and if they call more than 3x in one month you can press charges for harassment. (2,3,4) can be solved by providing proof of payment, and if the issue is pressed, I send them a copy of my proof of payment and an invoice for my contractor hours based on the time they waste, as well as a notice that they will be sent to collections if they continue to waste my time. (5) Scams nothing will protect you from, even the law. Its not a perfect solution, but these have worked for myself and my family. Harder to avoid was when a prior inhabitant at my address had a warrant out for his arrest; sheriffs don't accept proof of payment :)
I sound like a broken record (I’ve posted a couple of times already)—
Don’t deal with the debt collection agency. Find out who holds the debt and deal with them directly.
Debt collection agencies are little better than sleazy scummy crooks.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Why exactly was my post marked as trolling? Would this persons situation NOT have been prevented by not simply paying their bills?
Seriously?
Because you're using the "Blame the Victim" argument which is not only a weak argument but also kind of inflammatory. Maybe this specific person could have simply paid their bills, but there are plenty of other people that have a very good reason to get into this situation, such as illness. Also, you may have never let a bill go late, but don't consider that a simple task, you're underestimating yourself! That's actually quite an accomplishment. It's an easy thing to misplace a bill or get something lost in the mail. I've done it and I know plenty of people who have as well. The issue here is if we have a late payment, do we want to let creditors be able to post to us and our friends on Facebook? Argue Yes or No on that question, and you're less likely to get modded down.
Adidas To Bring Back Sneakernet
Wow, this motivated me to look up Debtor's Prison in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debtors'_prison
The content surprised me; I thought that this practice disappeared around the time of Charles Dickens. Bad publicity on Facebook pales in comparison to this:
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
Or maybe the mod understands that most people do pay there debts, and most people that end up with debt collection because they ended up in a different situation then when they incurred the debt. A large position of people want to pay there debt, but can't. Add to that, being unexpectedly out of work for a few months can destroy credit.
That jackass seems to think some how people can get huge lines of credit without a regular income. The people he is thinking about si a very tiny minority of people debt collators are going after. But hey, its not bad enough, lets humiliate embarrass and destroy their lives?
you know, sometime someones means change.
Twad.
I've been receiving mail for 4 years for the previous occupants of my house and getting phone calls for 2-3 for the previous owners of my phone number from debt collectors. What recourse do you have when these guys screw up because your name is John Smith and your a slightly obese farmer in Oklahoma who happens to resemble another couple dozen guys in your city with the same name?
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
This happened to me.
One of my wonderful neighbors moved and the new address and phone number that they gave to their creditors was mine. After six months of me trying to explain that I wasn't the person that they wanted to talk to, I let them know that if I heard from them again, my next call would be to a lawyer. They finally got the point.
...and if they call more than 3x in one month you can press charges for harassment...
Hell, if that was true half the debt collectors out there would be out of business. In a past life, I had some calling three times a day.
My general belief is that one should never use credit to buy something that costs less than one paycheck
I see what you're saying. However I've several credit cards - I money of petrol if use an Asda one at an Asda pump. I can use the portable hand scanner at Waitrose and not have to queue to pay if I use a Waitrose card, and I have a credit card provided by the bank. I very rarely use my debit card unless I'm going to be charged for using my credit card.
All my cards get paid off in full by direct debit. So basically they act as debit cards. I'm the worst possible customer for credit card companies as they'll never make a penny from me.
On topic, I received a letter addressed to "The Occupier". It was asking if I knew contact details for the previous tennant. I called them up and cheerfully asked if I get a commission for providing the information. When they said no, I told them I couldn't be bothered to tell them. That gave me a good feeling for the day.
If only it were that clear cut. My first ever internet service was dialup with Demon, when I eventually moved home, I called to cancel because I was getting cable at the new address and their systems were down so they advised me to email them, which I immediately did. I then cancelled my direct debit just to be on the safe side. Almost a year later I got a letter from a debt collection agency saying I'd missed 9 payments and owed them something like £180 - it turns out not only did they not bother to cancel my payment, but they also let 9 whole months of payments elapse before they even tried to get in touch, and when they eventually did they went through a collection agency instead of speaking to me direct (I know they didn't try and contact me because the old address/phone number is my parent's place and I had a forwarder set up for all of my mail). I was furious, but at the time I was in the middle of applying for a job with a financial organisation who were extremely cautious about not hiring people with bad credit, so I had little choice but to pay up or risk being turned down through no fault of my own.
I spoke to Demon again, explained I was not happy with the way they'd dealt with this matter (why not contact me after the first payment failed, for instance, or why have the first point of contact be a threat of legal action). I thought the matter was sorted, next year they did exactly the same thing - they'd still not cancelled the account and yet again they let it lapse 9 months before getting in touch. This time I did contest it and they dropped the charges and I never heard from them again. Note that this is a company that's generally pretty well respected, also note that I have never been in debt (mortgage aside) my entire life, I've never taken an overdraft, I use a credit card for online payment for the payment protection but always pay it off within the month, I didn't even take a student loan at university, I worked to pay my way. If this company had bad mouthed me all over Facebook, or its equivalent at the time, I not only would have been mortified, I probably would have lost the job I was going for to boot (and since I'd already moved home on the basis of the job because the credit checks were just a technicality, I'd have been out on the street too).
That is no doubt why you were marked troll, because your post either shows an incredible level of naivety about how these companies operate (they don't care about the circumstances or the consequences of their actions, they just want the money no matter what), and about the fact that it's easy to end up on the wrong side of them regardless of whether you actually did anything wrong or not (and that's without even going into the fact that life often ruins the best laid plans and renders people unable to repay when they were otherwise comfortable), or you knew this full well and were just trying to get a reaction from people. A lot of people borrow beyond their means and create a rod for their own backs, but by no means does that apply to everyone - debt collection agencies, however, fail to see the distinction.
I remember getting a call from a collector looking for payment on a mortgage for an house in San Francisco. I didn't know I had a house and San Francisco, so I guess it was good news and bad news.
I won't dispute that debt collection is necessary, but I will dispute that it's just a matter of people living beyond their means.
The majority (roughly 60% according to Google) of bankruptcy are due to medical bills, which are not voluntarily incurred and are usually by people with insurance.
Another factor that is causing major problems right now is that peoples "means" are frequently taking sudden and severe drops. Someone making $50K and living on $40K is generally doing great, but even they won't last long when their income suddenly drops to $20K.
Argue Yes or No on that question, and you're less likely to get modded down.
I agree with that statement, except the "Yes or" part...
Read my comment on how someone who has lived debt free can end up on the receiving end of these companies through no fault of their own. It's not just the financially irresponsible that these people go after, and that's even if they're going after the right person at all (plenty of other comments where people are being pursued as a matter of mistaken identity). I agree people should generally act responsibly with their money, in fact I'm generally the first to advocate this (see the debt free part) but to apply it to a particular person's situation without knowing all of the circumstances is most certainly trollish.
I'm not sure why she is suing on behalf of her relatives. Wouldn't it be more logical (and stronger from a legal perspective) for her relatives to sue the collection agency for harassment?
And, exactly none of those situations apply in this case.
Allow me to help. 1.) Post an on-topic comment. 2.) Make sure the comment in from step 1 is useful in some way, either bringing special insight to the discussion or at least additional information. 3.) ...
4.) Profit.
All my cards get paid off in full by direct debit. So basically they act as debit cards.
Yeah, I don't really consider that "using credit". I mean, technically you are, but if you have the money before you make the purchase "on credit" and never really carry a ballance, then the credit card just becomes a money transfer mechanism.
I do the same .. you get all the rewards and bonuses they use to lure people in.. without the crippling debt. For online purchases you also get the security.
I'm the worst possible customer for credit card companies as they'll never make a penny from me.
Indeed.. credit card companies _hate_ this. Not only are you not making them money, you are probably costing them money!
ugh. why does this pose a problem to people?
So instead of taking the time to ponder the discussion and contribute to it in a positive manner, or maybe do a little searching and come up with some new information to add to the conversation you're going to play the pauper and beg for karma points so you can get a good grade? That's really not how things work here. If you add to the conversation, you'll get modded up.
Karma whoring is lower than trolling. I wish I had a mod point to reward you accordingly. Someone please nuke this creep from orbit - it's the only way to be sure.
Don't have a late payment. Call your creditors if you do. Then you don't have this kind of problem.
The debt collectors and repo men perform a valuable service. If they don't collect then the costs get passed on to the honest consumer.
Unfortunately, this is being practiced on national scales in the Euro Zone: Fiscally responsible countries are forced to bail out fiscally irresponsible ones. Of course the better off countries could refuse to fund bailouts, but the Euro would then go to Hell in a hand basket. And political turmoil for all countries involved would follow:
It would be ironic if the Euro, the currency symbolizing European Unity, were to become the cause for its unraveling.
Disclaimer: It's cold and rainy outside, so I am feeling a wee bit grumpy.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
If the info is true, then you are out of luck. The problem is that collection agencies often work with inaccurate information, especially if it has been outsourced.
My general belief is that one should never use credit to buy something that costs less than one paycheck. Just wait until you actually _have_ the money.
I do not have a 2% cash-back with cash or debit but I have it with my VISA, so why would I use anything other than my VISA to purchase something ?
Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
All my cards get paid off in full by direct debit. So basically they act as debit cards. I'm the worst possible customer for credit card companies as they'll never make a penny from me
The downside to that is if you ever really do need credit. Your credit report shows the highest balance you've had on each card.
Someone with an excellent pay history and a highest balance of $8000, is a better risk than someone with an excellent pay history and a highest balance of $200.
Just note that it's something that does figure into the mix.
Their remedy is supposed to be to sue you. That's why there are laws against certain kinds of harassment of debtors by creditors/collection agencies.
The term McJob does not demean the people doing the work. Rather, it demeans a class of job where, the pay is low, the work boring or demeaning, and the workers are interchangeable and often treated poorly. People are not their jobs.
I do not have a 2% cash-back with cash or debit but I have it with my VISA, so why would I use anything other than my VISA to purchase something ?
I do the same.
You get all the rewards and bonuses they use to lure people in.. without the crippling debt. Not to mention the satisfaction of probably costing _them_ money.
I don't really consider this "using credit" as the credit card is actually more of a money transfer device at that point. If you have the money sitting in your bank account and pay it off immediately.. it's practically a debit card with benifits. Plus you build a credit rating.
If only. The merchants you use those cards with have to pay extra costs when you use them, and those costs get passed on to you. So, the credit card companies are laughing at you all the way to the bank.
You must have dealt with the 407 ETR highway in Ontario.
I am being chased by collections by them right now, even though I am still disputing the $8000 bill they suddenly sent me.
With no warning they sent me the bill, and though I called them the next day, they'd already sent it to collections. So now I have a ding on my credit, I have collections after me, all for a bill that isn't even REAL. There is no way I used $8000 of their services in a month - it's clearly a billing error. however, they refuse to settle things and insist that I drove thousands and thousands of km on their highway in a month, even though I don't even live in the area.
Companies have no feedback loop on this sort of shady billing. It costs them very little money to bill someone for some huge amount, argue with them, send it to collections and wait. Reading online, 407 ETR does this ALL the time, to people that don't even live in Canada, and have never been here.
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/fixer/article/732443--407-bills-can-hound-drivers-for-15-years
I wonder how many people just pay to get rid of them, and how much money they clear every month due to their disgusting billing practices.
And the icing on this cake - the Government has given them the power to block you from getting your licenese renewed if you have unpaid bills.
I wish there was actually someone on _our_ side against these kinds of practicies.
We emerge from our mother's womb an unformatted diskette; our culture formats us. - Douglas Coupland
Indeed.. credit card companies _hate_ this. Not only are you not making them money, you are probably costing them money!
Eh, unlikely. Remember that they get a cut of the sale price too. My impression is that is around 3%, so even with a pretty generous 1% rewards thing leaves them with quite a bit of leeway. I can't imagine that administration costs of someone's card who isn't a problem would exceed that amount.
It could be a scam or erroneous bill. A few years back, a collection agency called and mailed me several times for a ~$90 bill that was not mine (cell phone bill and I don't have a cell phone at that time). At first they didn't even spell my name right. I replied and they put the right name in the second collection letter, claiming I have to respond within 30 days, and also called me for social security number, otherwise the bill is mine by law (what law?). I ended up to hire a lawyer to stop them.
Why exactly was my post marked as trolling? Would this persons situation NOT have been prevented by not simply paying their bills?
You were probably modded down because you're being an insensitive prick.
There are times when the most careful people may run into financial trouble through no fault of their own. An insistence on being judgemental about this sheds a certain unflattering light on your character.
They make money on each transaction you make with the card. They charge the vendor a fee.
This is how cards without an annual fee can have a reward program.
Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
Over the past three years, I have been harassed by no less than four debt collectors looking for people. One debtor bore a similar name to my 8 year old son. Two others had no similarity to anyone in my family and are people I do not know. The latest one who started calling a few weeks ago is looking for my ex-wife and we have been divorced for four years.
The one looking for someone with my kids' name, robocalled with a recorded message for six months before I even knew who it was calling. The number was always "unavailable." When humans started calling, it took another three months to get them to stop. I had to get VERY nasty on the phone and threaten them with the state AG's office to get them to quit calling.
They are genuine scum!
You're assuming of course that the debt is actually owed.
A few years back I was contacted by O2's (mobile phone operator) debt collection agency to inform me that I was being taken to court (with a date set) for an unpaid sum of £7.25. This was the first attempt made to contact me by the company about a debt - and I hadn't been a customer of theirs for over 5 years on a pay as you go plan.
Contacting O2 resulted in being told "the debt has been passed to our collections agency you need to speak to them" while telling the agency I did not owe the money received the expected response of "we cannot confirm that; the debt has been passed to us and you must pay it regardless" along with various threats of the amount I would end up paying if I did not pony up the £7.25. Being stubborn (or stupid) I refused to pay. Thankfully I had been uncharacteristically diligent and had paperwork of the account covering ending of the service which made the agency realise they weren't going to win if it went to court and they no longer wanted a part of it. Back to O2 and 5 months of beating them over the head with "if you are sure I owe this money then you must be able to explain what I was charged for" and they finally cleared the debt as a "courtesy".
Granted this is (hopefully) an unusual case - but it cost me a not inconsiderable amount of wasted time effort and stress - regardless of the actual amounts involved. Imagine if on top of this the agency had been sending what amounts to unsubstantiated gossip to associates online. Friends/family perhaps would hopefully give you the benefit of the doubt - work colleagues perhaps not so much.
There is real risk of defamation of character here - the attitude you display towards those who carry debts just goes to prove how damaging such accusations could potentially be.
Python coder | PyQt Applications | Writer
As Zuckerberg said, "The age of privacy is dead". It should be no surprise to anyone that debt collectors are starting to harass your social network. Why not? Businesses can pre-screen you through your free to the public domain Facebook profile. Websites are already data mining every site you visit in an attempt to make the internet one big commercial. It's the invasion of privacy that is 'Facebook' and you willingly signed up for it. You post your phone numbers, e-mail addresses, thousands of pictures of you doing various illegal/embarassing activities, fail to turn on your privacy filter and cry because you have absolutely no idea how anyone could have possibly stolen your private information. Remember in the '90s when you weren't even supposed to give out your last name on the internet? Well Facebook is what happens when you do. Sorry.
Don't have a late payment. Call your creditors if you do. Then you don't have this kind of problem.
People don't. That's why we have entire companies that make money calling people that have late payments. Facebook would become even more trashed with creditor notices posting on your friends' accounts. They're going to contact and embarrass the wrong people with the same names on Facebook. Scammers are going to start successfully posing as creditors on Facebook. If you're a creditor, simply don't use Facebook as one of your primary business tools. Then you don't have this kind of problem.
Adidas To Bring Back Sneakernet
I use the MagicJack for my phone service and my number is totally unlisted and if I need a new number it costs a nominal fee.
With this I find it would be hard to be harassed by anyone, bill collectors or otherwise.
I regret that I only have one mod point to give per post.
Seriously.
I have owned my current house for 11 years. A few months ago I started getting calls on my landline for debts incurred by one of the previous owner's kids.
The kid hasn't lived here in over 10 years. The kid never had my telephone number.
The scummy debt collectors cross-referenced an old address to a phone number, completely ignored the directory information on the number, and started harassing me mercilessly.
It took many weeks to get them to understand that I was perfectly serious about taking them to court if they didn't lay off.
Suppose someone really has no other skills? There are millions of people--custodians, dishwashers, landscapers--who pretty much can do the one thing. I mean, maybe they can learn other skills, but this is what they ARE DOING. So "mcJob" is a way of saying these people are incapable of doing anything other than boring, demeaning, low paying work.
It used to be that Americans, unique in the Western world, respected the common working man and an honest day's work for a day's pay. Then Communism came along and stole our thunder, and somehow the American Left has come to look down on such jobs as exploitation work. People who take such jobs are expected to hold their noses.
There's nothing wrong with encouraging everyone to aspire to better paying work, for example to move up the chain of management at a MacDonald's which is quite available for a hard worker with a go-getter attitude.
But there's everything wrong with teaching entire generations of young people that certain classes of work are beneath respect. And make no mistake--people who are taught this lesson also look down on those who take such jobs.
We Americans have lost the old work ethic that made us a great country, exploitation or no. Tying this back into the story, we also have lost all shame at being irresponsible. My grandfather who lived from 1900 to the early 1990s boasted how he closed down his business decades ago with zero debts; he did not declare bankruptcy. That used to be a point of pride. Now everyone talks with a straight face about how to get out of their mortgage and stick it to the bank because "they misled us" and so forth.
To the lady on Facebook--don't buy a car if you don't have the month-to-month income to pay for it. Long term, we all end up paying for your mistake one way or the other.
it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
Yes, they do. Credit card companies make money from every transaction you make; they take a 3-5% cut right off the top from the merchant. This is essentially free money to them; the only cost is storing a transaction ID related to an account ID.
On top of that, they get their own customers' finance charges and other fees.
--Jeremy
Jesus was a liberal
Oh, so then he was stating the obvious? No shit, people who don't pay their bills, but could pay their bills, should pay their bills. People who can't afford debt shouldn't take on debt. You think this is insightful somehow?
What about all the other circumstances? You know, the gray areas where discussion is actually meaningful? Like where someone makes a mistake and gets taken advantage of? Or where someone has an unfortunate event in their lives and finds themselves unable to pay their bills? You know, the stuff where blanket statements like "people should pay their bills" isn't helpful?
Here -- I'll add some flamebait to counter your troll: fuck you. You think you're brilliant and responsible because you can come up with a pithy comment like "people should pay their bills" and completely ignore the real discussion. Let's see you or someone in your family develop a medical condition that leaves you bankrupt (did you know that 50% of all medical bankruptcies are to people who HAD INSURANCE? I'll bet you didn't.) and then see how you feel about someone just saying, "well you should just pay your bills."
--Jeremy
Jesus was a liberal
how does "never had a credit card" look compared to "had a credit card, didn't spend much, but always paid it off in full"?
FGD 135
removing mods, sorry!
People don't save money because actually saving money means losing money. If you put it in any sort of standard "safe" savings account, you lose it to inflation. If you gamble it in investments, it will probably beat inflation until there's a big crash and you lose 60% of it; if you got out before the crash, good, if not, sucks to be you.
--Jeremy
Jesus was a liberal
It's excellent advice but with one caveat: some companies have a policy that they will not deal with a former client/customer who has been sent to collections and they refer those people to the collection agency to which they sold the debt.
"A government is a body of people usually -- notably -- ungoverned." -Shepherd Book
...and if they call more than 3x in one month you can press charges for harassment...
Hell, if that was true half the debt collectors out there would be out of business. In a past life, I had some calling three times a day.
That only works because so many people are accustomed to reacting like sheep and don't know their rights.
A number of financial talk-show hosts decry the illegal practices that debt collectors use because the people they use them on don't know any better.
Oddly enough the people who take time to know their rights and responsibilities also tend to be the type who keep their bills mostly up to date...
Okay, I might as well add my own caveat.
It’s excellent advice if it was an honest mistake: either yours or theirs. If you knowingly went into debt and blew them off when they tried to collect their money, don’t plan on them being particularly cooperative or sympathetic.
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
But I'm glad I live in a country where this would be illegal
This is blinging
You're not costing the card companies any money. In fact you still are making them money since they get a cut of the fee that the merchant is charged for accepting your credit card transaction. Also, the financial institution is getting a great profile of how and where you spend your money. They can use this information to send targeted ads in your credit card statement that is mailed or emailed to you (They sell advertising).
The icing on the cake is that you have an active line of credit with them, and they wait for something to happen that causes you to carry a balance. It will happen and time is on their side. You have been warned.
Nothing wrong with cash. You remain anonymous and some merchants will give you a bigger discount if they allow haggling.
These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
My credit card company issued no-finance-charge “purchase checks”. I used to deposit them in my savings account to almost max out the card and then shuffle the money back to them in a month after earning interest on it in the meantime. They were definitely losing money in that deal...
Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
Some time ago I got a land line. Was part of a package deal from the cable company so why not? I mean can't hurt to have... ...except apparently it was a number that debt collectors though someone lived at. All the fucking time with the calls and they wouldn't listen that I was not the person they were looking for and didn't know where they were. Some of them wanted to get more of my information which of course I was not about to give.
Debt collectors are basically like spammers. They just go after anything they can to see what they can catch. They don't give a shit about accuracy or that sort of thing.
My credit report is filled with nothing but "pays as agreed, never late," (I have never, on any account been late, ever) and yet I still have to put up with debt collectors at various times. Really tells you something about the industry.
I work at a collection agency. This breaks all sorts of FDCPA laws, especially about releasing information to 3rd parties.
This agency will get audited very soon.
Once when moving out of an apartment, I had the manager come in on the day I moved out after the apartment was empty. She and I went through the whole apartment and did the evaluation for how much of my deposit I would be getting back. The end result was that I was going to get back all of my deposit minus the small fee for cleaning/whitewashing/whatever that happens.
Fast forward two months -- I get a call from a debt collector wanting me to pay money to the apartment complex. Well, being as I was expecting a check back from them, and this was the great state of California, my response was this:
"I am due a refund of X dollars from the apartment complex. I have this in writing and signed by the apartment manager. Their refund is now past due, as California state law allows the apartment complex only 30 days for the ex-tenant to receive their money. As such, if I do not have a check in my hand by the end of the week, I am contacting the CA housing authority as well as the sheriff and going after both of you for failure to pay, harassment, and fraud."
She apologized profusely, and in 3 days I had a check in my hand with the full amount owed to me. Woo-hoo!
can be provided if you present a utility bill for your current location, and if they call more than 3x in one month you can press charges for harassment.
The only limitation in Federal law (FDCPA) is that collectors cannot call you outside of 8am and 9pm your time. However, with that said, many companies who hire 3rd party collectors will require the 3rd party collectors to not attempt to recontact a customer for 7 days after speaking with them before. But this is not a law just a general guideline that many companies require of their collections agencies. If you have heard something about calling 3 times within 30 days than this must be specific to a company that you are referring to.
I agree that it's not strictly limited to people living beyond their means, and medical bills and insurance are greatly inflated. However if you have a drop in "means", then you have to adjust your standard of living accordingly. Many don't, choosing instead to put things on credit to "keep the party going". That's the type of people that the OP was referring to, and I couldn't agree more with him.
you know, sometime someones means change.
If you're planning your finances with the expectation that your means are going to be consistent and stable, you're an idiot. Building a debt (a few costly items or many many cheap ones) that will take ten years to pay off is foolish at best. You scale up your standard of living when you get a raise. When your income drops, your standard of living needs to drop accordingly. How many people will ignore a bill collector, yet not cancel their $100 a month cable TV package? Posting as AC adds to it. "tiny minority" needs some proof behind it. As well, before the economic downturn, people COULD get huge lines of credit without a regular or huge income. They are the ones now being targeted by debt collectors. Being unexpectedly out of work for a few months shouldn't destroy your credit if you've planned properly. Most people don't. Their abuse of credit cards proves this. Being out of work for 6 months or more is another matter altogether as unemployment and rainy day savings are exhausted.
Wrong section... this should be in YRO. ... and because of this, we get to "Read" this article in the broken idle code. Yay.
For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
I'm not a lawyer, but section 806.5 barring "Causing a telephone to ring or engaging any person in telephone conversation repeatedly or continuously with intent to annoy, abuse, or harass any person at the called number." would seem to cover multiple calls per day. It isn't a set limit, but states may have rules that define harassment further.
Xavier Rabourdin for president 2012
For whatever moderator has his head up his ass, this is an absolutely reasonable and laudable suggestion, and a very simple one: don't buy what you can't afford to pay for in cash. You'll have no debt, and no debt collections. Like he said, if you do have debt, and you talk to your creditors - explain that you've taken a second job and a payment of X is inbound, they'll almost always work with you.
When did we get to the point that what was common sense to our our grandparents is now flamebait?
There is very little future in being right when your boss is wrong.
There's no need to quit Facebook over this, all it takes is making the list of friends viewable by friends only. Which is actually good practice for all social networks.
Actually, you'd lose that bet, I did know that. And did you know 70% of the uninsured work full time but without benefits? However, hospitals are by law required to treat you. If you pay them 10$ a month, you will not be sent to collections. My source: working in healthcare for 4 years. And fuck you? really? Is that the best you can come up with? I'm sorry my side sounds insensitive, but its true. I'm sorry I'm not a bleeding heart for someone who broke a financial contract that she signed. Yes, its unfortunate, but those are the breaks when you bite off more than you can chew. People need to get their heads out of their asses and realize that when you incur debt the debtor has the right at any time to cash in on that debt. It's in the wording of every single loan, every single credit card. They can call you and say, "Pay us the balance, now." Read the small print. Know your damn rights. And don't throw yourself into the jail of debt if you aren't damn sure you can pay things off. A hundred years ago no one had heard of credit cards, and debt was something to be avoided. I am not obligated in any way, shape, or form to conform to your views, so throwing insults really shows your inability to cope with the stated facts. Let's go over them one more time: A) She owed a company money. B) She signed a contract stating she would pay them. C) She didn't. D) Company avoided going to collections and started trying to contact her directly which means she's been delinquent for some time. E) She is now working with a lawyer (who she strangely had money to pay for) to file a lawsuit. She is a liar, and an opportunistic thief. I'm more than happy to allow you your perspective, and respect it. Its sad. However I side with the company. They lose in the situation, not her. Good day, sir.
Thank you for your comment. I've never been so lambasted for pointing out that someone reneged on a contract. It makes me happy that someone bothered to listen to their grandparents when they talked about not being a slave to debt.
Sometimes that works. In other cases where they've actually bought the bogus debt, they'll hassle you for a while and then re-sell it to another collector.
Of course, none of that can work if there was never a payment to be made in the first place. You can't prove a negative.
There is a significant risk in providing a debt collector with your personal information when they are calling you in error. They MIGHT accept the proof that you're not the person they want, or they might munge the data together with the debtor's, stick the info in their file, and re-sell the debt. Of course, they might actually be a scam operation and now they have something commonly used as evidence of who you are and where you live. Identity theft imminent...
Don't use facebook. Seriously though, why would you allow random strangers to post stuff on your page? Wouldn't making your facebook page private/by invitation only prevent these problems?
As someone who's been sporadically harassed by two different groups, one for somebody else who shares my first and last name, and another for someone who presumably previously held my phone number... I say screw them all. And if they decide to look my mom up on facebook and harass her too... well, my mom's always been better at getting through to people, maybe she could convince them to stop it; I certainly haven't been able to.
It was marked trolling because you didn't say 'that lady should have paid her bills'. You generalized. Lots of people get harassed, painfully, by debt collectors without ever failing to pail a bill. Enough people that it has happened to enough slashdot mods personally to want to moderate your post when they saw it. Think about the percentage of the population that means have been falsely harassed!
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
As others have said, 3% merchant fee - 2% cash back = 1% for credit card company.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
I'd say the claim that his comment was 'obviously directed at those who just weren't paying their bills' is somewhat undermined by the fact that large numbers of people who read it interpreted it a different way.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
I had one that had and automated calling system. The answering machine was full of calls that didn't say who the call was for, who the company was, or what the call was about. Nobody was ever on the line if you picked up the phone. They left a message to call an 800 number and ask for Bob. I let it go to the answering machine for a couple of months to see if they would give up. Nope.. 2-3 times a day at all hours on their automated system. Having no debts, and fearing a scam, I called them from another phone after Goggling their number and refused to identify myself and simply told them they were violating the telemarketing act. They said they were not selling anything and thus exempt from the telemarketing act. I gave them the number they were hammering and asked who they were trying to reach at that number. They would not tell me. I told them if they called it again, my lawyer would be sending a letter. I asked for the manager's name and mailing address.. I asked when the last time was they were able to contact their party at that number.. I told them it was not within the last 2 years. I got the number 2 years prior. Please update your contact numbers. They admitted they had not been able to reach the deadbeat in 3 years. The calls stopped.
It turns out they had bought a debt and had a 3 year old number that I now had.
You don't have to have any bills to have these guys take a slice of your time uncompensated to make the calls stop.
Robo-dialers should be illegal. Charges for your time should be billable for dealing with callers using robo-dialers with nobody on the line. I would have been very happy to have my lawyer bill them for the time to call them. Unfortunately I never did get a mailing address. They were real low life.
The truth shall set you free!