Wii 2 Unlikely For 2011, Maybe In 2012

One Word by corychristison · 2010-11-19 00:30 · Score: 0

Has the innovator been out-innovated due to a sluggish product roadmap?

Yes.

Re:One Word by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 00:42 · Score: 4, Insightful

Ok. Great. Now, how about a few more words, because the one doesn't really help much.
Re:One Word by EdZ · 2010-11-19 00:58 · Score: 1, Insightful

No. The Wii's motion controls were evolutionary, not revolutionary. There was no innovation in the first place, just good marketing. Same with the ipod: not the first portable mp3 player by a long stretch, but the first with widespread marketing of the SHINY NEW THING.
Re:One Word by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 01:00 · Score: 4, Interesting

Why would they bother? Microsoft and Sony are skipping a new generation of consol in favor of adding motion control to existing systems. Even with a year's delay,Nintendo will beat Microsoft and Sony to the next generation console. They still have good motion control and can draw from the Wii as well as Kinect for a new generation. Nintendo is in excellent shape.
Re:One Word by LordKronos · 2010-11-19 01:19 · Score: 5, Insightful

I disagree.
As far as Move goes, I don't see that as out-innovating the Wii. From my point of view, the PS3 is several years more advanced than the Wii (in both the base hardware and the motion control hardware), they've had years more of research to benefit from (both their own research and what others in the industry and academia have researched and demonstrated), they have the benefit several years of sitting back and learning from the Wii's mistakes and shortcomings, and with all of that benefit they've managed to brute force a solutions that is only slightly more capable than the Wii, and looks stupid and inelegant in the process.
As far as Kinect goes, I have a lot of respect for what they've done there. Rather than just tracking the position of some sex-toy-looking orbs, it actually analyzes the scene to extract skeletal structure information from the players movement. It's quite technologically advanced. Very impressive in the way it operates and the capabilities it provides. Yet the one thing that REALLY bugs me about it is that it is a purely controller-less design. Being able to play controller-less is pretty cool, but a lot of games will suffer or be impractical without buttons to press. Using an existing controller 2-handed kind of defeats the purpose of Kinect's advanced capabilities, the existing 360 controllers aren't conducive to single-hand use, and releasing a future add-on-controller-for-the-add-on-kinect is just completely out of the question.
So no, I don't really feel that the Wii has been out-innovated much. Move is pretty pathetic and uninspired considering how much later it came than the Wii, and Kinect is really impressive and innovative in ways but has a fatal flaw. I think it will take until the next generation before someone truly outdoes the Wii (when they can combine the Kinect's sensor technology with the Wii/Move controller system)
Re:One Word by Eraesr · 2010-11-19 01:28 · Score: 1

Analysts are looking as far ahead as 2014 for XBox Kinnect. Sony has also said that there's 10 years of life in PS3. So if Nintendo comes with a new concept that is as groundbreaking as Wii (in terms of tech and/or marketing) in 2012 then they sure as hell haven't been outpaced by either Microsoft or Sony.
Re:One Word by Predathar · 2010-11-19 01:47 · Score: 1

I think you meant to say, "Oui".
Re:One Word by alen · 2010-11-19 01:49 · Score: 1

the Wii was cool but the problem is that it's processing power is the slowest of the bunch. i've read that MS had to gimp Kinect a little because it requires a lot of CPU power. Nintendo is going to have come up with something else or put some processing power in their next console.
Re:One Word by Shanrak · 2010-11-19 02:01 · Score: 1

More than one word: Not really. Sony is busy working on a slightly better version of what the Wii came out with years ago, and Microsoft's Kinect (although it has some pretty cool applications outside of gaming) is targeting a demographic that the Wii has pretty much saturated over the past few years. In the mean time, Nintendo has quietly brought out a 3D hand-held that does not require special glasses to play on.

The way I see it, Nintendo is just hedging their bets on being the first to heavily embrace the 3D market, I would not be surprised if the Wii 2 came out with 3D support at all, and once again, Sony and Microsoft will have to play catchup (assuming 3D takes off).

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Re:One Word by rwa2 · 2010-11-19 02:02 · Score: 4, Insightful

Has the innovator been out-innovated due to a sluggish product roadmap?
Counterpoint:
No.
Nintendo pretty much has a different market segment of casual gamers. Younger kids who are into the franchise (Pokemon, Mario, etc. and other exclusives are all over the elementary schools... never heard anyone there ever mention Halo or even Final Fantasy). Kids don't care about system specs... hell, they won't even watch TV if it's not a cartoon, so I surmise they actually expect the cartoony "8-bit look" as a sign that a game is actually "for them".
Finally, the hardcore gamers will have a Wii anyway just for the heck of it.
Nintendo can milk this cow, the Wii teat, for a while longer. Then once publishers actually start releasing interesting games for the PS3 and Kinect motion controls, they can come out with the next big thing out of cycle.
I surmise it would be some kind of augmented reality thing, so they can sell more cheap widgets with each game, that the kids will bring to school and lose and have to be replaced.
Re:One Word by zach_the_lizard · 2010-11-19 02:08 · Score: 1

The original Kinect did its processing in hardware, IIRC. I believe that they cut that out due to the cost of it all. Check out the Open Kinect group on Google Groups; there's a good bit of information to be found, and more in the IRC chatroom.

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Re:One Word by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 02:36 · Score: 0

The XBOX 360 has a single handed controller. It's existed for quite a long time now, and it's an official Microsoft accessory. It's rarely used for anything except the Scene it! games, but that could change.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Button_Controller#Big_Button_Pad
Re:One Word by elrous0 · 2010-11-19 02:47 · Score: 1

how about a few more words
Red
Climb
Prestige
Speaker
Picture

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Re:One Word by jackbird · 2010-11-19 03:39 · Score: 1

Doesn't the PS3 support 3D right now?
Re:One Word by orange47 · 2010-11-19 03:42 · Score: 1

hm, what about using some simple LED light that would act as a button for Kinect? but, I think Kinect is too complex and it probably 'slows down' CPU due to processing. and lag is probably unavoidable.
Re:One Word by LordLimecat · 2010-11-19 04:24 · Score: 1

"8-bit look"

Whatever its flaws, the Wii doesnt really have an 8-bit look (and I say this as a guy who has several 8-bit systems close by).
Re:One Word by Gilmoure · 2010-11-19 04:49 · Score: 1

Wankel
Rotary
Engine

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Re:One Word by tlhIngan · 2010-11-19 04:53 · Score: 1

hm, what about using some simple LED light that would act as a button for Kinect? but, I think Kinect is too complex and it probably 'slows down' CPU due to processing. and lag is probably unavoidable.
Uh, why so complex?
Even with Kinect you can use a regular controller. Existing technology that works, and both work simultaneously. Less lag, less specialized equipment required (you already have a controller).
That's the thing with Kinect - it's not just for motion games, but it can be used to enhance non-motion games as well. Move can't do this as you need the glowing ball. Wii can do it as well, but in a limited fashion.
Examples:
1) You're playing your FPS and hiding behind a wall. How about physically leaning over to peer around it?
2) You're playing an arcade flight sim - your physical movements may alter the movements of the ship on screen - perhaps you're trying to avoid that missile coming at you and you instinctively lean in the opposite direction. Won't it be neat if the game actually responded to that?
3) Ditto platformers - who hasn't raised their controller or tilted it in an attempt to possibly influence the results of a jump or to squeeze into a hard to reach area? Again, won't it be neat if the game would respond?
This is its potential - besides motion games, it can also be used to enhance regular controller-based games.
About the biggest issue with Kinect I've seen is the store demos. People are used to moving their arms, but not their legs or their whole body, and a lot of games take advantage of leg movement and whole body movement.
Re:One Word by sarysa · 2010-11-19 06:03 · Score: 1

This needs to be modded up, and then sent to all the major players in Xbox 360 development. (including Microsoft) I hope that companies take advantage of this in the future, so we're not doomed to just rail games...

I wonder if there could be a swordfighting game that goes beyond Kinect's core functionality to include a sword with a d-stick and a couple buttons, reading both the sword and the user's skeleton to make an advanced swordfighting adventure...

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Re:One Word by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 06:22 · Score: 0

Yes this will be used in the future, they will be labeled as "Better With Kinect" games. You should start seeing them next year, though Harry Potter launched this week. I don't know exactly how HP implemented this, but it is the beginning of Kinect+Controller games.
Re:One Word by BenoitRen · 2010-11-19 08:29 · Score: 1

the Wii was cool but the problem is that it's processing power is the slowest of the bunch.

Could you also explain why that is a problem? Remember that it doesn't do HD, which makes it require less processing power for that part.

i've read that MS had to gimp Kinect a little because it requires a lot of CPU power.

Apples and oranges. The Kinect is a very different beast from the Wiimote. One is a camera that is supposed to allow a game to identify human movement, while the other is a motion sensor. I'd think analysing images would be much more CPU-intensive than motion information.
Re:One Word by BenoitRen · 2010-11-19 08:49 · Score: 1

Finally, the hardcore gamers will have a Wii anyway just for the heck of it.

Then there are those like me that could be considered "hardcore", but aren't interested in the types of games that the PS3 and the Xbox 360 get. I'm not interested in games like Call of Duty, Street Fighter IV, or Mass Effect. That's why I own only a Wii out of the three current consoles.
Re:One Word by KDR_11k · 2010-11-19 20:47 · Score: 1

Just sticking more processing power into the next console won't sell it, the Wii has plenty of great games that are system sellers and don't need more processing power. Current Wii owners would not be convinced of the need to upgrade to a Wii HD because the games the Wii offers aren't going to be significantly improved by additional processing power.
Also a fun fact is that Wii games usually aim for a framerate of 60 while "HD" games often render at lower resolutions than 1280x720 just to achieve 30 frames per second.

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Re:One Word by KDR_11k · 2010-11-19 20:53 · Score: 1

The new part of the Wii wasn't the hardware, it was the software. Games never had as broad an appeal before. If Nintendo had only made Gamecube-like games with added motion controls the Wii would have failed, it's the combination of new audience games (Wii Sports and the games that followed) and lapsed audience games (better Mario Kart, New Super Mario Bros) that boosted the Wii to where it ended up. Same with the DS, it was the software strategy, not the hardware, that made that thing the most popular system.

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Re:One Word by KDR_11k · 2010-11-19 21:18 · Score: 1

Yes but the 3DS offers a cheaper and more elegant solution. 3D on the PS3 is still a niche thing because you need a new TV for it.

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Re:One Word by jackbird · 2010-11-20 01:53 · Score: 1

But he was talking about the Wii 2, which presumably will not have an integrated display.
Re:One Word by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 13:42 · Score: 1

Nintendo pretty much has a different market segment of casual gamers. Younger kids who are into the franchise
Nonsense. Most of Nintendo's customers are 25+.

Kids don't care about system specs
Newsflash: Most people don't care about system specs! Only a handful of hardcore crybabies do.

Nintendo can milk this cow, the Wii teat, for a while longer.
What on earth are you talking about? Are you saying that they shouldn't try to make people buy their console? I really don't understand where you are coming from. You sound like a whiny little kid.

Then once publishers actually start releasing interesting games for the PS3 and Kinect motion controls, they can come out with the next big thing out of cycle.
Move and Kinect will fail.

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Re:One Word by hkmwbz · 2010-11-23 00:18 · Score: 1

I would not be surprised if the Wii 2 came out with 3D support at all
Of course it won't. There's no demand, hardly any 3D TVs out there, etc. Nintendo even said they wouldn't do it.

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Dead economy by hairyfeet · 2010-11-19 00:31 · Score: 3, Insightful

means no new consoles. Duh. When things pick up THEN I'd expect a new console.

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Re:Dead economy by Seriousity · 2010-11-19 01:05 · Score: 3, Funny

Ya, at this rate it won't be released until Dec 20. 2012, and we'll only get one day to play it.

But that, my brother, will be one glorious day.

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Re:Dead economy by suv4x4 · 2010-11-19 01:23 · Score: 1

means no new consoles. Duh. When things pick up THEN I'd expect a new console.
I suspect they have also more up their sleeves than just 'better motion controllers' and 'better resolution'.
If it was just "Wii2" it would be out by now.
Re:Dead economy by timeOday · 2010-11-19 03:29 · Score: 1

I would like to see 3d gaming, i.e. game console support for the 3d displays all the major LCD manufacturers are coming out with. By 2012 3d might be a more-or-less standard feature in new TVs.
Yeah, I know most of slashdot hates 3d TV, doesn't think graphics matter in games, etc, etc.. but c'mon, gaming is the perfect application, because you actually DO have a 3d representation of the world that supports selecting your own viewpoint. For certain types of games such as car driving games, I think 3d could be become almost indispensable (try driving in traffic with one eye shut and see how you like it).
Re:Dead economy by h4rr4r · 2010-11-19 05:34 · Score: 1

Your will to trade half the vertical scan lines for fake 3d?
Give me 4k then make that 3d.
Re:Dead economy by timeOday · 2010-11-19 06:12 · Score: 1

"Your will to trade half the vertical scan lines for fake 3d?" Obviously I'd rather not lose resolution. Your solution sounds fine, or how about shutter glasses for a double-bright 120 hz screen that interleaves two full-resolution 60p channels? I am not really current on what techniques all the new 3d displays are using.
Re:Dead economy by davester666 · 2010-11-19 07:00 · Score: 1

Dammit. I'll miss it when I get raptured June 23, 2012, along with the rest of the Illuminati.

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Re:Dead economy by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 07:21 · Score: 0

I want the one with more GBs.
Re:Dead economy by Chris+Burke · 2010-11-19 08:51 · Score: 1

Ya, at this rate it won't be released until Dec 20. 2012, and we'll only get one day to play it.
But that, my brother, will be one glorious day.
I fear it may be the release of the console itself that causes the end of the world.
I really started to get worried when I heard the internal code name for the project was the Revelation.

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Re:Dead economy by Anubis+IV · 2010-11-19 11:12 · Score: 1

Actually, dead economy means that video game sales pick up. It's a strange occurrence that, I believe, was even mentioned here on Slashdot a year or two back (I can't be bothered to find the link). Long story short, when people are short on cash and want to ignore everything that's going wrong in the world, games are one of the primary places they turn to.
Re:Dead economy by RocketRabbit · 2010-11-19 11:46 · Score: 1

3d gaming is a gimmick, and it will not take off.
3DTVs are not being purchased in the retail outlets anyway, unless the manufacturers price them identically to a non-3D TV. What that tells you is that people don't give a shit about 3DTV.
Re:Dead economy by brkello · 2010-11-22 04:59 · Score: 1

The economy isn't bad for a new Nintendo console. The reason they aren't selling much is that everyone that wants a Wii, has one. Anyone who doesn't can get one used. The longer you wait to release a console, the cheaper it becomes and the more tech becomes available.

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Understandable by Pojut · 2010-11-19 00:36 · Score: 3, Interesting

The Wii only started losing steam this past year, and they still sell boatloads of them every month. Granted, it's a much smaller boat than it was before, but they are still moving units. Even though the current generation of consoles are starting to directly impact the potential complexity of games, they still have a bit of life left in them...Wii included. Here's to hoping that Nintendo focuses more on the hardware this time. Don't get me wrong, there have been some amazing games released for the Wii (Muramasa: The Demon Blade being one of the better ones), but I'd like to see more emphasis on gaming prowess rather than a focus on the "general" market.

Not that I expect that to happen; Nintendo is a business, after all...

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Re:Understandable by Lumpy · 2010-11-19 01:27 · Score: 1

But you can now buy them in COLORS!!!!!!!
My old nasty White wii is going to be replaced with a REd wii...
Oh buy all new red controllers, and new accessories to match!

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Re:Understandable by JackieBrown · 2010-11-19 02:18 · Score: 1

I know people that are going to buy the black one once they get their ponus to match their xbox 360 and ps3
Re:Understandable by hedwards · 2010-11-19 03:56 · Score: 1

Ah, yes the gameboy model.
Re:Understandable by BenoitRen · 2010-11-19 08:54 · Score: 1

Here's to hoping that Nintendo focuses more on the hardware this time. Don't get me wrong, there have been some amazing games released for the Wii (Muramasa: The Demon Blade being one of the better ones), but I'd like to see more emphasis on gaming prowess rather than a focus on the "general" market.

What does the graphics arm race have to do with games not aimed at the casual audience?
Re:Understandable by Pojut · 2010-11-19 08:59 · Score: 1

It doesn't...remember that hardware doesn't just power what you can see, it also powers the underlying mechanics and behind-the-scenes calculations.

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Re:Understandable by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 12:26 · Score: 0

They're still no more complex than a Turing machine!
Re:Understandable by Fallingcow · 2010-11-19 15:21 · Score: 1

Maybe if the Wii had more power they could have not ruined the Goldeneye re-release by leaving the bots out.
I hope it was a hardware issue, 'cuz if it was a deliberate choice then I'll be extra disappointed. Leaving it out by choice is unforgivable, leaving it out because your boss says "the game must look as good as X 100% of the time" and X already gives you framerate issues when there are explosions, I can at least kind of understand.
Re:Understandable by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 13:45 · Score: 1

So, like the redesigned 360 and PS3 then? Oh wait, it's only bad when Nintendo does it!

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Real Soon Now by dkleinsc · 2010-11-19 00:42 · Score: 1

That's what they really meant to say. Or actually, "I know the Wii was interesting but now out-of-date, but don't lose your loyalty to Nintendo."

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Re:Real Soon Now by Pojut · 2010-11-19 00:44 · Score: 1

All of the consoles are out of date, from a hardware perspective...each new multiplatform game that gets released just makes the console-PC divide more stark.

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Re:Real Soon Now by Jarnin · 2010-11-19 01:19 · Score: 0

Out of date? The Wii was considered "low-tech" compared to all other consoles on the market when it came out in 2009. The real innovation was the controller. But seriously, why would Nintento want to come out with a Wii successor so soon? Since when is 3 years between consoles considered a generation?
1985: NES
1991: SNES
1996: N64
2002: GameCube
2009: Wii

So with an average span of 6 years between generations, why are they changing it up to 3 years?
Re:Real Soon Now by Pojut · 2010-11-19 01:32 · Score: 1

I have NO idea how you got modded insightful.
The Wii was released in 2006, not 2009.

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Re:Real Soon Now by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 01:35 · Score: 0

The Wii was considered "low-tech" compared to all other consoles on the market when it came out in 2009.
Uhhh..you've turned your 6 upside down.
Re:Real Soon Now by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 01:43 · Score: 0

And his Gamecube date is a year late too.
Re:Real Soon Now by Pojut · 2010-11-19 01:48 · Score: 1

I gave him a pass on that, just in case he's in Europe. For North America though, correct, it's a year off.

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Re:Real Soon Now by mwvdlee · 2010-11-19 01:59 · Score: 1

It's the nature of the console market to be outdated the day they are released.
They require parts that are relatively reliable and mass-produced and need a stable hardware spec well before the release date.
OTOH, when I buy a game for X360, I'm pretty sure it'll work without problems on my X360. Not so much of a certainty when buying a PC game.

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Re:Real Soon Now by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 06:10 · Score: 0

Because the Wii was the "upgrade" speedbump from the Gamecube, eg the difference between the Gameboy and the Gameboy Color. It's basically the same machine, smaller, faster, with "Nifty new input device"
It otherwise remains unchanged.
Re:Real Soon Now by CastrTroy · 2010-11-19 07:44 · Score: 1

Let's also not forget that consoles generally are a lot cheaper than a top of the line gaming PC. Even the PS3 which everyone said was way too expensive with an initial price of $500, is still around half the price of a top of the line processor. People don't want to spend $3000 on a console, because it will be out of date in 4 years anyway. Just as a top of the line PC would be.

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Re:Real Soon Now by mognuts3 · 2010-11-20 01:32 · Score: 1

Here we go again. I was thinking about this the other day. /. hasn't had a good 'ol PC vs. Console debate in a while. So here we go.
If you bought a 360 around the time it was released
360: $300 2nd controller: $40 Live gold (necessary): $250 (5 years @ $50) Live gold: $300 (5 more years $60; don't forget it's been out 6 years, and they also raised the price) Bigger HD: $150 (If you bought the normal version at launch, and you've used your 360 a decent amount, you eventually HAD to get a bigger HD than the 20 GB version)
Total $1,040
Cheaper than a PC huh?
Looks like you spend the amount of a nice rig. Oh but that's right you had to buy a PC as well. So add another $800.
Total: $1,8040
Do you know what kind of PC I could build for that now? Damn. To give you a hint:
Core i7 950 12 GB RAM 1.5 TB HD GTX 460 SLI Blu-ray
For about $300 less.
Re:Real Soon Now by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 11:38 · Score: 1

No, it is not basically the same machine. Never mind the fact that everything was redesigned from scratched (although it's using the same architecture) to be much smaller and use less power, but the controller itself is a huge upgrade.
You fail at life.

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I suspect he may be misleading the public by brunes69 · 2010-11-19 00:45 · Score: 4, Informative

Nintendo has been raking in a metric buttload of cash off of the Wii.

Remember the fact that the Wii *hardware* made a profit from day 1, while the PS3 and the 360 sold at a loss for many many years.

What have they been doing with all that cash? R&D of course. Do you actually think Nintendo is just sitting around on their hands? They are not stupid.

In all likelihood they are just laughing their butts off at Sony and Microsoft pushing over themselves playing catch-up, meanwhile sitting on some revolutionary new console that will be surprise announced in the summer to come out next Xmas.

Re:I suspect he may be misleading the public by Sockatume · 2010-11-19 00:51 · Score: 1

They already surprise-announced a revolutionary new console*, it's the 3DS. They won't want to split their marketing efforts between two new machines at once. The Wii's more likely to be in line for a soft relaunch with a lot of Motionplus titles and a big push on online support, not a replacement.
*For sufficiently small values of revolutionary.

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Re:I suspect he may be misleading the public by __aatirs3925 · 2010-11-19 01:05 · Score: 2, Interesting

What was it? The R&D department for the Wii was about 5-7 people and their system was based off old technology slapped on a Gamecube. I'm not dismissing the success of the Wii, but perhaps their R&D is not for hardware, but for marketing. The casual gamer is a goldmine, that's what makes Nintendo so successful.
Re:I suspect he may be misleading the public by Pojut · 2010-11-19 01:46 · Score: 2, Interesting

I was under the impression that their reasons for sticking with the older hardware had nothing to do with keeping the price down, but rather a way to keep things more familiar for developers. Since they were going to have to be learning an entirely new control scheme, Nintendo didn't want devs to have to deal with complex new hardware as well ("hardware" independent of the control mechanisms, obviously.) Now that developers (kind of) have a handle on the motion controls, Nintendo can give them more powerful innards to work with.
Standard "this is only my opinion, I have no basis for any of it" boilerplate applies.

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Re:I suspect he may be misleading the public by alen · 2010-11-19 01:51 · Score: 1

i'm sure that money and the prospect of massive bonuses had nothing to do with it. the execs are like starfleet officers, everything is done for the good of the federation
Re:I suspect he may be misleading the public by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 02:17 · Score: 5, Informative

I can't tell if you are serious or sarcastic, but for the record:
Iwata makes $770K ($2.1M with possible bonuses). Miyamoto earns under $700K ($1.4M with possible bonuses). The other 4 top guys earn around $500K ($1.2M to $1.6M with bonuses). Those incomes are tiny, both when compared to other companies in their industry, and considering the billions in profit the company makes ($2.43 billion last year, $2.99 billion the year before, and those are actual profits, not just revenue).
Re:I suspect he may be misleading the public by hedwards · 2010-11-19 04:00 · Score: 1

Actually, a bad dev kit can just about kill a platform in the absence of any other problems with the console. If you're not mindful about what registers to include and how well the dev kit works, you can easily stall yourself out of the critical period around launch.
Re:I suspect he may be misleading the public by BenoitRen · 2010-11-19 08:58 · Score: 1

A bad dev kit wasn't a problem for the PS2, though. But there were other factors at work there.
Re:I suspect he may be misleading the public by hardboiled.tequila · 2010-11-19 21:01 · Score: 1

Good point on the R&D angle.
Does anyone here think that the Move and Kinect would *ever* have existed if it were not for these facts:
1. Someone else already did it.
2. It was proven to be outrageously popular year after year after year.
Does anyone here think that Sony's PSP2 would have been 3D *with no glasses needed*? Do we really think they could have dreamed that up?
With all this talk about revolutionary vs evolutionary, no-one but Nintendo has ever done revolution. Analogue control, dual-screen, touchscreen - a host of firsts. PS2, Dreamcast, XBox - they were all incremental upgrades to the previous gen. Even the first jump to 3D was pre-empted by Starfox and Stunt Race FX.
3DS is going to own, let's be honest. It seems to have better graphics than the Wii, so Nintendo is going to focus on that product for a while. Also, be assured that Wii 2 won't launch without a new innovation that Nintendo will be proud to announce.
Nintendo didn't compete with Sony and MS - they created their own market for the Wii. Now, Move and Kinect are vying for that market - Sony and MS are admitting that said market is valuable enough to compete for.
Re:I suspect he may be misleading the public by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 13:39 · Score: 1

In case you didn't notice, there is something called a "Wii Remote" which obviously took a lot of R&D to produce. You are narrow-minded, and only capable of focusing on the graphics produced by the console.
And yes, the mass-market is a goldmine. What's wrong about hitting the mass-market? You are just being pissy because Nintendo crushed PS3 and 360.

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Informal poll. by Luke727 · 2010-11-19 00:46 · Score: 1, Funny

Motion gaming sucks. Mod up if you agree, down if you disagree.

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Re:Informal poll. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 01:07 · Score: 0

how do you mod +1 true?
Re:Informal poll. by tepples · 2010-11-19 01:41 · Score: 1

AC wrote:

how do you mod +1 true?
First you have to log in.
Then, as far as I can tell from the FAQ, max your karma to Excellent and keep it near the cap for a year. After that are some steps that I don't understand; I've never had mod points despite sitting at the cap for years. Once you have mod points, use "Insightful".
Re:Informal poll. by hort_wort · 2010-11-19 01:45 · Score: 1

I'm still wanting direct thought control. It'd be worth the long initial training session to sit back and nom cheetos while gaming. Who games to develop hand/eye coordination anyway?
The easter eggs would be really fun. They could have your character stop and take a long swig of a drink if you think about being thirsty and such.
Re:Informal poll. by TheVelvetFlamebait · 2010-11-19 02:13 · Score: 1

No fair! You biased the result with humour!

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Re:Informal poll. by pieisgood · 2010-11-19 02:41 · Score: 1

Sorry, I was on the school network and forgot to login. At the time it was easier to post AC. Since I am replying I can't mod anymore but I guess the comment would have made more sense/been funnier had I posted using my account.
I've been here for a few years and I get mod points just about every week. They also gave the option to disable ads, which is cool. There is something about modding "+1 insightful" on /. though.... from my perspective it usually means "I agree with you".
blah blah blah... good post though, at least SOMEONE cares about AC.

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Re:Informal poll. by Abstrackt · 2010-11-19 03:43 · Score: 1

Mod funny if undecided?

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Re:Informal poll. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 03:48 · Score: 0

You seem to think you're on reddit.
Re:Informal poll. by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 07:05 · Score: 1, Informative

Another good way to end up with mod points other than participating in the discussion(s) in a positive manner would be to meta-moderate. I did some meta-modding about 3x a week for about a month and now I have more mod points than I can give out in the time they give me. 15 at a time? 5 wasn't quite enough to go through more than one or two interesting threads, but 15 is ridiculous.

Has the innovator been out-innovated...? by IBBoard · 2010-11-19 00:46 · Score: 1

Has the innovator been out-innovated due to a sluggish product roadmap?

Erm, that depends. If "out-innovated" means "finally caught up to with motion-control designs" (albeit ones that either look stupid or probably require much bigger rooms, like the PS2 EyeToy used to) then yes. If "out-innovated" keeps its old definition of "now have a smaller share of original features that they implemented first and are seen as lacking because of it" then I wouldn't be so sure.

wii 2? by mug+funky · 2010-11-19 00:48 · Score: 2, Funny

nintendo should go roman and call it the wiiii

Re:wii 2? by __aatirs3925 · 2010-11-19 01:06 · Score: 4, Funny

Or they should go retro and call it the WiiNES. Anyone want to play with my WiiNES?
Re:wii 2? by Rogerborg · 2010-11-19 01:28 · Score: 1

nintendo should go roman and call it the wiiii
Surely Wiv. Actually, that's UK Sarf East mongspeak for "with", so it's thematically consistent with "wii".

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Re:wii 2? by wed128 · 2010-11-19 03:07 · Score: 1

Or just double the bit width and call it Wii64...
Re:wii 2? by MrL0G1C · 2010-11-19 11:04 · Score: 1

Don't be silly, I have it on good authority it's going to be called Puu (pronounced Poo).

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Re:wii 2? by mug+funky · 2010-11-20 21:38 · Score: 1

well, i was going with the presumption that the first two i's were part of the name.
if the W were taken as two V's, we'd have issues...

I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by mark-t · 2010-11-19 00:52 · Score: 2, Funny

Unless they can come up with something very new, and very original, and something that's a lot better than just an incremental improvement to their current system, I don't think they are going to be a serious competitor in the industry after the next generation of consoles has run its course.

What makes it even worse is that Nintendo is probably going to have to depend heavily on backward compatibility in their next generation console, which limits the directions they can take with it.

This, I think, is it for them. I think they might be down and out for the count.

I remember when Atari was king of the consoles with the 2600... but they didn't innovate quickly enough as competitors came out either.

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Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by Shirakawasuna · 2010-11-19 00:59 · Score: 1

Except that Nintendo is raking in large fields of cash. It's arguably the most successful console of this generation, even though it disappoints a lot of gamers.
Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by Chaotic222 · 2010-11-19 01:51 · Score: 5, Informative

It's not arguably the most successful console this generation. It flat out is the most successful console this generation by any reasonable metric. The Wii has practically sold more units than the PS3 and 360 combined. It dominates software sales, too. And unlike the PS3 and 360, the Wii was selling for a profit from day 1, meaning Nintendo has been making money off it from day 1. The only console that could reasonably compete with it in terms of "success" would be the DS. Nintendo is in an amazing position right now.
Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 02:28 · Score: 0

Nintendo doesn't HAVE a 7th generation console, they have TWO 6th gen's, but one of them didn't come out until 2006...(we're still awaiting an actual 7th gen console from them... I hear, perhaps in 2012...)
I have no idea why people insist that identifying which "Generation" a console is allocated to is based strictly upon the approximate date of the release of the device. It's a meaningless concept. In the REST of the computing world, generations are identified by successive and marked improvements in hardware and software development. The Wii represents NEITHER of these things. It was produced in the mid-2000's, using hardware from the late-90's... *yawn*... But because it cost about half of what ACTUAL 7th gen consoles did at release, boatloads of ppl who don't know their technological head from their arsehole bought one thinking "yay, I got a 7th gen console for $129!"... If Intel or AMD brought a new processor to market that wasn't a substantial improvement over its predecessor, and then marketted it as being the "next generation"... people would scoff and keep buying the existing chips. Unfortunately, the millions of "Walmart Shoppers" that propped up Nintendo's last console would probably also rush out and buy those chips en masse as well...
So, if Nintendo releases a "Wii 2" in the next couple of years, it will, in all liklihood be based on hardware that was considered "new" in 2008, and it will finally have a machine worthy of comparison with the 360 / PS/3, as a TRUE 7th gen console... of course, that'll only be 6+ years after the rest of the world got their 7th gens up and running, but at least it will almost certainly arrive before actual 8th gen consoles start cropping up..
In summary, Nintendo, on it's second attempt, has the best, (and possibly best-selling, although there have been a freakin ton of PS/2's sold), SIXTH generation console, but it took them until 2006 to bring to it market.
-AC
Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 03:03 · Score: 0

So, Nintendo releases a 6th gen console against two 7th gen consoles (and one with a 1-year head-start) and kicks the crap out of them. Isn't that sadder for Sony and M$ than just considering it part of the 7th gen?
Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 03:46 · Score: 0

Funny, you say that all those people who bought Wiis were deceived, but how? When was the console ever marketed as a "7th gen console"? When has ANY console been marketed based on it's generation?
The console has been out for how many years? Four. It's been sold side-to-side with the PS3 and 360 through all those years, and yet, it's selling more than them. If the public was deceived, why the hell didn't they stop buying it a year after it was released?
Seriously, who the hell cares if the console has the power of a TOP500 computer or an Odyssey? What matters is the games.
I, in particular, have many Wii games and I think they kick ass (yes, the Wii has a lot of shovelware, but if you call yourself a gamer, you should be informed enough to know about the games that matter). I also have a PS3 (it's broken at the moment... even though I've played less of it than the Wii), yet I don't have any desire on buying a 360 (after 5 years, there's only one exclusive game I'd like to play for the console, and it's Dead Rising).
The fact that the Wii is less powerful doesn't matter to me, and I guess it's the same for a lot of people. What matters is how much fun I have with the games.
Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 04:02 · Score: 0, Troll

My only point was to dispute the OP's assertion that the Wii...

...flat out is the most successful console this generation by any reasonable metric.
...because for the many and myriad reasons discussed above, the Wii is NOT a 7th gen console, and therefore, release-date notwithstanding, it is NOT "the most successful console of this generation" by ANY metric, excepting that you specifically define "this generation" as "consoles of any technological standard, whose north-american release date occurred proximal to 2006". Which is a retarded definition and serves only to reflect the disingenuiness of the entire Wii marketting strategy.
Nevertheless, I fail to understand what your response adds to the discusion as you don't seem to have anything to say wrt to the central argument... It's great that you have fun within the confines of the Wii's limitations, I'm sure the many people who still purchase PS/2's feel the same way, but that doesn't make either one of those consoles elements of "this generation".
-AC
Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 04:31 · Score: 0

The problem is obviously the definition of generation. For you, it's from a technical standpoint. For me, it's the group of consoles released in a timeframe meant to compete with each other.
It may seem retarded to you, but I can also come up with a good example as to why the other could also be retarded (at least I think it is a good example :D).
For the sake of argument, let's say that the PS3 and 360 are equivalent in power, and call that X. Now, Microsoft releases a new console in 2012 with 2X the power. I guess you would call that the start of the 8th generation, right? What happens if Sony decides to release a $1000 console with 5X the power in 2013? What generation is Sony's console? Is it 9th gen now? Or are they part of the same generation? If it is the latter, why would they be when there is a significant technological difference between the two?
Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by CronoCloud · 2010-11-19 04:45 · Score: 1

So was Atari, till 1983.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_video_game_crash_of_1983
There's a significant statement very early in that article:

There were several reasons for the crash, but the main cause was supersaturation of the market with hundreds of mostly low-quality games.
Sounds like the Wii's game market to me. Sooner or later, all those "Wii Fit Mom's" are going to get tired of getting suckered by all the shovelware designed to cash in on what is seen as the less game quality sensitive Wii market.
Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 04:54 · Score: 0

Recover? seriously, wtf?
How do you "recover" from having the most profitable console this generation?
Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 05:05 · Score: 0

They'd both be 8th gen consoles, because they represent a significant leap forward in technology.
And Microsoft would get absolutely HAMMERED for producing an (obviously) substandard piece of tech (since clearly they didn't leap as far forward as they could have vis a vis Sony's product in your example).
Even if either one of them made a machine today, using current (i.e. circa 2010) hardware, they'd be forward from the hardware baseline set circa 2005 and that would represent a "next generation" console, but it would be a substandard, and therefore almost certainly unsuccessful product. This is one of the primary reasons that the leading manufacturer's aren't rushing out a new console: The hardware tech hasn't moved far enough forward that it would represent a revolutionary upgrade, and they'd've spent presumably massive r+d dollars for something that would be difficult to market as a true "next gen" platform (and not just a speed boost on existing tech). The ONLY reason Nintendo is talking about a new console in the next 12-24 months is because their "current" one is approximately 10+ years behind the curve TODAY, so "upgrading" to a processor architecture with memory and graphics from only 3 years ago would still represent a massive upgrade for them... (thereby finally giving them a true 7th gen offering...)
-AC
Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by scot4875 · 2010-11-19 06:55 · Score: 1

This may be some of the most strained, twisted logic I've ever.
Exactly how badly do you need your PS3 or 360 to "win" that you have to rationalize the Wii's existence this way?
Also, I'd come back and say that any console that still has wired controllers and no wireless ethernet isn't "next-gen" either. And by your logic, I'd be correct. Or wait -- when you said "hardware" you really meant "only the pieces of hardware I care about."
--Jeremy

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Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by scot4875 · 2010-11-19 06:57 · Score: 1

Sounds like the PS2 game market to me, too. Have you seen the amount of shovelware in the PS2 library?
--Jeremy

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Jesus was a liberal
Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 09:02 · Score: 0

> low-quality games
Understanding of this phrase is key. "Low quality" back then meant something different than "low quality" means now; in fact, it was Nintendo itself that raised the quality bar (remember when they had that badge of approval on their games in the NES era?), which made it extremely successful for the two generations after the crash.
The other side of the "low quality" problems that led to the crash was that the consoles and games were damn expensive.
So the thing about the Wii of today is that it's not very expensive, it has games at many different price levels, and its "low quality" games are playable and a lot of people like them enough to keep buying them (though they are your personal favorite kind of game). That's an extremely important difference, by the way: the difference between "this game sucks because I don't like it but a million other people like it" and the "this game sucks because it was written in one week and never tested and crashes the system in level eight so you can never even complete it" of the Atari era.
Not to sound fanboyish here (I don't have any of the latest gen consoles), but if anyone were to be rightly tarred with the "low quality" brush, it'd be Microsoft, wouldn't it? Their hardware problems won't crash the market or bankrupt the company, but it's relegated them to fighting over who gets to be #2 or #3 this generation, where they might have managed a solid #2 creeping up on the Wii's sales figures. (IMO, their fight for #2 today is as much a testament to Sony totally screwing up as it is to Microsoft totally screwing up, too; if Sony hadn't screwed up with pricing and delays, Sony could have been a comfortable #2). Microsoft's next generation is going to be stuck in the same "let's lose five billion dollars trying to make sure we win the generation after this" rut that the first two generations were in. Perhaps more so than their first gen - since their first gen was solid, a lot of good will carried over into the second. But since the second gen had flaky hardware, a lot of people who got burned by that are going to hold off on considering their third gen for a year to see if the new boxes die.
Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by CastrTroy · 2010-11-19 09:44 · Score: 1

Exactly, the most popular console of any time period will have tons of shovelware as thousands of game developers rush to make a quick buck on the fad of the day. You'll never find shovelware for virtual-boy, SegaCD, Dreamcast, or many other less popular systems that died fast. Also, It's worth pointing out that although the Wii does have a very large number of very bad games, there's also quite a respectable list of very good games. Personally I'm of the opinion, that as long as there are 10 to 20 really great games for a console, that is good enough, as I will likely never buy more than that anyway. For my Wii I only have about 10 games, but they are all top notch games and were worth every penny.

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Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by Unkyjar · 2010-11-19 09:44 · Score: 1

So what you're saying is the Wii shouldn't be compared to the PS3 or 360, but instead should be compared to the PS2? Wow, Nintendo is kicking the living crap out of the competition then, since apparently the only competition for it is the PS2.
Hey look, even by your metric Wii is still the best console of its generation! ^_^
As for the PS3 and 360, well, they're outdated tech compared to some of the computers my friends built. I wonder when they're going to hobble together something more modern.
Naw, I know that the PS3 and 360 are excellent systems and with the might of two mega-corporations behind them I don't see how anyone can keep pace with their hardware development. There's just too much money going into their development for a smaller company like Nintendo to compete. We won't be surprised by a huge jump in power with Nintendo's next home console, yet somehow that rag-tag tenacious Nintendo will still manage to hang on without great graphics or mind blowing processor power. My belief? They've been cursed by a witch.
Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by Unkyjar · 2010-11-19 09:49 · Score: 1

Damnit...my sarcasm tags got pulled out by the slashdot commenting system...now people have to guess.
Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by m50d · 2010-11-19 10:15 · Score: 1

excepting that you specifically define "this generation" as "consoles of any technological standard, whose north-american release date occurred proximal to 2006"
There's nothing specific about that. A generation generally means a group of people born (so by extension objects created) around the same time; this is the standard definition, the only one that it makes sense to be using.

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Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by Fallingcow · 2010-11-19 15:26 · Score: 1

In summary, Nintendo, on it's second attempt, has the best, (and possibly best-selling, although there have been a freakin ton of PS/2's sold), SIXTH generation console, but it took them until 2006 to bring to it market.
Allowing for the sake of argument that the Wii is a 6th-generation console, it's not the best. The Playstation 2 has a waaaaaay better library than any of the three current game systems. Hell, it's got a better library than the three combined. At the rate good games are coming out, I doubt any one console this generation will match it, the PS1, or the SNES in the game library department.
This generation (plus the Wii, if you don't count it as 7th) is a dud.
Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-22 01:27 · Score: 0

They'd both be 8th gen consoles, because they represent a significant leap forward in technology.
And Microsoft would get absolutely HAMMERED for producing an (obviously) substandard piece of tech (since clearly they didn't leap as far forward as they could have vis a vis Sony's product in your example).
Even if either one of them made a machine today, using current (i.e. circa 2010) hardware, they'd be forward from the hardware baseline set circa 2005 and that would represent a "next generation" console, but it would be a substandard, and therefore almost certainly unsuccessful product.
-AC
But isn't the Wii more powerful than the Gamecube? Maybe it's not considerably more powerful but it's not an exact copy of the console, so compared to its predecessor, it is still more powerful, even if the competition did release even more powerful consoles. And in the end, it didn't get hammered, so the public didn't care that it wasn't as powerful.
Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 11:32 · Score: 1

What the PlayStation 2 doses not have is crazily accessible controls, and Mario.
This generation is a dud, with the exception of Wii, which has brought masses of new non-gamers to gaming.

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Re:I don't expect Nintendo to recover.... by Fallingcow · 2010-11-22 17:47 · Score: 1

All three have very weak libraries. Anything else they've done that's interesting or novel is overshadowed by that. Maybe that will change, but so far this looks like the Generation of the Handhelds, as that's where most of the good games are.

This is Trolling... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 00:56 · Score: 0

But shouldn't we be trying to raise the bar on the games that get made before we start making even more new consoles?

How many decent game releases did 2011 see? Not very many. But hey! We've got motion capture for the Xbox now!

We don't need more innovation in gaming. We need game developers that actually care about making good games, like we had in the old days. Problem is, awful games can still sell well with the general public, so the extra effort isn't worth it.

Re:This is Trolling... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 00:59 · Score: 0

How many decent game releases did 2011 see? Not very many.
Yea, 2011 was a terrible year for games, I don't remember a single decent game coming out. Especially compared to 2010, which was a great fucking year for games.

Another week ... by damn_registrars · 2010-11-19 00:56 · Score: 1

... another rumor of Nintendo's impending collapse. Just because the two main competitors - neither of whom have matched the Wii sales numbers with their latest consoles - have released motion controls, is not enough to claim that Nintendo will be gone next week. Neither the PS3 nor the XBox 360 controls have been out long enough to have any sense of how often they will be implemented in upcoming games.

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Limited markets... by hal2814 · 2010-11-19 00:58 · Score: 3, Insightful

Right now the Kinect is $200 and the PS3 Motion is $100 plus $70/controller according to Amazon. So just to add motion control to the 360, you have to shell out what you would for a new Wii. You can get a Wii used from Gamestop with a decent warranty for $120. And browsing the Kinect games, they look like the same stuff available on the Wii: some Sonic knock-offs, the EA exercise stuff, Deca Sports... Unless the Kinect and Motion can put out some must-have titles, people who don't already own a 360 or PS3 will likely opt for the Wii.

Re:Limited markets... by drinkypoo · 2010-11-19 01:09 · Score: 2, Insightful

My Wii sits unused (hardy har har) while I occasionally use my 360. The Wii turned out to be a gimmick. Odds are Kinect will be the same, and it will sell few games, and we'll be over motion detection for another couple generations.
I keep hoping someone will come up with a cheap eyetap so we can get into reality overlay gaming. I want more motivation to go outside. I'm imagining some kind of multiplayer wizard battle game, that's something you could meaningfully do without endangering people.

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Re:Limited markets... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 01:10 · Score: 0

We don't own any consoles, but am looking to get our first for Christmas. I was thinking about the Wii+WiiFit since I thought it more family friendly. I was however concerned whether I'd regret being limited to more family friendly titles once the kids were in bed.
However after seeing the Kinect, I'm now changing my mind towards 360+Kinect. Any cost difference doesn't bother me that much, however if my choice requires me to extend my living room, the cost of doing that may worry me more... :)
Re:Limited markets... by WankersRevenge · 2010-11-19 01:39 · Score: 2, Informative

Kinnect is a $150 ... not the two hundred as you claim. And you can always pick one up used from ebay if you like. And I'm guessing the majority of Kinnect purchasers already own the XBox. That said, having recently played the Kinnect I will say that I was underwhelmed. I found the lag to be bothersome and the games I played were forgettable. The voice navigation just sucked often requiring us to pick up the controller to actually do what we wanted to do. I will say it was a blast watching the kids play it. They loved it so it may turn out to be a a fun family thing down the line but for now, I'm sticking to Rock Band for my group activities.
This most disturbing thing about the Kinnect is the data mining potential as noted by a MS exec. Seriously ... if I had one, I would keep it unplugged when I wasn't playing a game.
Re:Limited markets... by cbope · 2010-11-19 01:51 · Score: 5, Insightful

Exactly. I'd say it's more of a case of the competitors closing a gap on the Wii, while the Wii is still significantly cheaper than either.
Plus you have to consider that since every single Wii ever sold has motion control out of the box, every single game can be developed with motion control as a standard feature. For the PS3 and Xbox... developers have to consider developing games for consoles that may or MAY NOT have motion control capabilities. Remember folks, this is an EXTRA COST option on PS3 and Xbox... it means you can't take it for granted that motion control is available. As a developer you have to support both non-motion control and motion control controller interfaces for your games on those platforms.
From a dev point of view I'd much rather develop for the Wii than to have to take this into account. For the Xbox and PS3, the early adopters have already bought the "upgrades"... where does the growth then come from now that the honeymoon is over? I'd be interested to see the installed-base numbers of consoles vs. motion control devices sold separately. Probably not a pretty picture.
Re:Limited markets... by hal2814 · 2010-11-19 02:01 · Score: 3, Informative

I just looked up the price on Amazon. According to them, the only Kinect hardware I see is Kinect Sensor with Kinect Adventures for $197. Pardon my ignorance if that's more than retail. I really don't know.
Re:Limited markets... by delinear · 2010-11-19 02:06 · Score: 2, Interesting

Aren't you more likely to need to extend the living room if you go with the Kinect? The optimal distance from the sensor is 6' for single player, 8' for two player (and that's not including the space you need to leave around yourself so you don't bump into things). I think that will be the single biggest issue with Kinect - the technology seems great and there is definitely potential there if it works as promises, but particularly here in Europe, just having the physical space to play is a problem.
Re:Limited markets... by oh_my_080980980 · 2010-11-19 02:43 · Score: 1

Read the article. All WII has going for it is the motion control. NO HD. No content playback system. Yesterday's technology. Xbox and PS3 are in position to over-take the WII because they've added the motion control. Over-time the prices will drop. But if you are talking about investing in a gaming console which would you rather put your money?
Re:Limited markets... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 02:52 · Score: 1, Informative

Yeah, that's from a 3rd party seller on amazon. Amazon itself is out of stock, so they don't show their price. The MSRP is actually $149.99, and that's what the major retailers (Amazon, Target, Best Buy, Walmart, etc) have been selling it for (with some of them offering occasional discounts below that price) when they actually have them in stock.
Re:Limited markets... by D+Ninja · 2010-11-19 03:22 · Score: 1

I wouldn't say Wii turned out to be a gimmick - it just meets different needs than a 360, for example. The 360 has better games...there is no doubt about that...but it has better games for a specific audience. You wouldn't find my grandmother playing Call of Duty or anything like that, but sit her down and play Mario Party 8, and she has a blast. Just because Wii doesn't fit *your* particular demographic doesn't mean it's a gimmick. (In fact, quite the opposite - the fact that 360 and PS3 are trying to copy Wii's success shows just how well it really was made.)
Re:Limited markets... by hal2814 · 2010-11-19 03:25 · Score: 1

"Read the article."

I read the 2 available and none adressed the console as anything more than spec sheets. Unless I can stick the spec sheet in the Wii slot and play it, I really don't care what's on it. Which ties right back in to my final point above: MS and Sony need must-have titles for their motion controllers and right now I don't see them. Maybe they will come in time, but it's a bit premature to say the Wii has nothing going for it when Nintendo is still making games exclusively for their own console.

So far in 2010, I spent the vast majority of my video game time playing Wii Sports Resort, New Super Mario Bros, Mario Galaxy 2, and Other M. Some other titles worked their way in (Super Street Fighter IV comes to mind) but none stayed long. Nintendo just has a knack for making games I want to play.
Re:Limited markets... by hedwards · 2010-11-19 04:04 · Score: 1

Was it a gimmick? If you've got a 360, the odds are fairly good that you're not the core demographic driving the wii sales. The biggest problem that the Wii has is the space requirement, and I think Sony is the only one of the three that's apparently dealt with that. MS seeming to think that we all have living rooms the size of a high school gym.
Re:Limited markets... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 04:34 · Score: 1, Interesting

For you it turned out to be a gimmick, for me it was (and still is) the only console I have in my house. It's not that I can't afford a PS3 or 360 it's that I can get everything else I want on my PC, so I do. I look forward to Wii2 or whatever they'll call it.
Re:Limited markets... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 05:29 · Score: 0

The biggest problem that the Wii has is the space requirement
Seriously???? I have all three and the Wii is the smallest of them all.
Re:Limited markets... by DragonWriter · 2010-11-19 06:52 · Score: 1

As a developer you have to support both non-motion control and motion control controller interfaces for your games on those platforms.
No, you don't. Just as you don't have to support systems both with and without microphones in a singing game on any of the three platforms(microphones being an add-on option on all), or systems with and without musical instrument controllers (ditto.)
You can support both, or you can target the subset of the market that has the kind of controller you want to focus the game around, or you can have two packages for the game, one of which bundles the needed add-on.
Microphones, cameras like the EyeToy, single guitar controllers and full bandkits, and every other specialized control option in the history of console gaming has demonstrated this.
Re:Limited markets... by seebs · 2010-11-19 19:36 · Score: 1

Could you help us out by pointing out the previous times when a new control scheme added to a console a couple of years after it released became sufficiently universal and widespread on that console that games could rely on it and still find a real market? Not talking about stuff like Guitar Hero, where the game exists to sell the peripheral. I'm asking for an example like EyeToy, only where it got >80% market penetration and it was genuinely practical for AAA titles to strictly require it to play.
Because if that doesn't happen, then no, adding motion control as an extra-cost addon which many games will never support does not catch them up.
If I were putting money into a gaming console today, I'd do exactly what I did four years ago; I'd get the Wii, 'cuz it's the one that has the most games I want to play. (In particular, the most games which are interesting to me, not just expensive.) And I'd be happy with that. And if I were developing for a console, I'd pick the Wii, because it's much cheaper to target and has a much larger installed base.

--
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Re:Limited markets... by YourExperiment · 2010-11-19 23:14 · Score: 1

Personally, I think that Wii-style motion control combined with 360 / PS3 graphical detail is a big win. Perhaps I'm alone on this, but sales figures so far seem to be bearing it out.
I'm not slating the Wii; Nintendo managed to launch a console that was incredibly cheap to make yet hugely innovative, and they made a massive amount of money by doing so. Now the other console makers are cynically cashing in on the market that Nintendo has created. C'est la vie - they're in this for the money after all.
But the visuals on the Wii really are pretty bad, even to someone like me who favours innovation over glitz. If I can get motion control and nice visuals in my games, I think that's worth paying a bit of a premium.
Re:Limited markets... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-21 03:55 · Score: 0

I think he meant the space required to use the motion controller. Although he is wrong because most games can be played sitting down using small hand movements.
Re:Limited markets... by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 10:55 · Score: 1

All WII has going for it is the motion control.
All the other ones have going for them is prettier graphics, which most people don't give a damn about.

NO HD.
So? No one really cares.

No content playback system.
It's a game console! Geez.

Yesterday's technology.
Actually, it was PS3 and 360 that were yesterday's technology because they didn't have motion controls. There's more to "technology" than pretty pictures. Also, who gives a damn about the technology? What matters is the fun.

Xbox and PS3 are in position to over-take the WII because they've added the motion control.
That's assuming that all that's needed is to add motion controls, and everything will magically solve itself. That's Sony and Microsoft's problem. They think technology rather than experience.

--
Clever signature text goes here.

Nintendo is catching up by Drakkenmensch · 2010-11-19 01:02 · Score: 3, Insightful

The Wii's game catalogue will look a whole lot better now that both the 360 and PS3 have their very own shovelware minigame motion system platform to lower the overall quality of their software releases.

Revolution by ranulf · 2010-11-19 01:03 · Score: 5, Interesting

The Wii's motion controls were evolutionary, not revolutionary.

Nintendo obviously believed the motion controls were revolutionary - the Wii codename was revolution. Look inside the battery compartment of the Wiimote and you'll still see the code RVL-003.

In any case, it did revolutionise gaming input in a tangible way and brought a whole new demographic into gaming as a result.

Re:Revolution by suv4x4 · 2010-11-19 01:16 · Score: 3, Insightful

Nintendo obviously believed the motion controls were revolutionary - the Wii codename was revolution. Look inside the battery compartment of the Wiimote and you'll still see the code RVL-003.
In any case, it did revolutionise gaming input in a tangible way and brought a whole new demographic into gaming as a result.
In the collective Slashdot mind, once you get used to something, it never was revolutionary.
For example, Wii's controllers aren't revolutionary, we had those for a long time (where??).
Another example: iPhone was never revolutionary, we always had a lot of multitouch phones with a full browser, easy to install apps, and features that even mere mortals can figure out (which ones??).
It's best to ignore the echo chamber, they never learn.
Re:Revolution by commodore64_love · 2010-11-19 01:44 · Score: 1, Insightful

When Wii was released /. and other forums said "The Wii will fail. Nobody wants gimmicky motion controls or a measly 480p resolution. The Wii will end-up in 2nd place just like the Gamecube, while Sony or microsoft take the top spot." - So I consider it revolutionary if only because Nintendo (and some fanboys) was the only 1 who believed it would succeed. Everyone else thought motion control was a dumb idea.
As for the Wii Part 2: I think if Nintendo released it now, they run the risk that it could end-up like the N64... a flop after a major success. They are wise to keep the WII past its normal five-year-span, just as they did with the NES.
Besides if they released it now, what would be customers motives to buy it? Just to jump from 480p to 1080p? Not very convincing.

--
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
Re:Revolution by blahplusplus · 2010-11-19 01:58 · Score: 2, Interesting

"It's best to ignore the echo chamber, they never learn."
It's not that the Wii was a revolution it was that most people got it for Wii sports and Wii fit. The original NES pad was more simple then the Wii mote.
The Wii has had a profitable run, but a profitable run does not mean bad things are not happening to the gaming market, the lack of games on the Wii due to not having competitive hardware power hurt its gaming library for cross platform games. Nintendo may have been profitable, but in the eyes of true gamers many of us vacated to the Xbox 360 and PS3 since once again The Wii ended up being like the gamecube, except this time the games over all are crappier and of lower quality then in the gamecube with the exception of Galaxy 1+2 era.
All of Nintendo's properties this era have been disappointing, from Metroid Other M, to Twilight princess. You can feel Nintendo is losing it's Mojo for anyone who has been playing the last 20+ years of gaming.
Gaming is about the games, not the hardware, and we have yet to see whether Wii "market expansion" means there are more gamers for developers to make money off of or if they just end up playing Wii sports / Wii fit and ignore most everything else.
Re:Revolution by TheRaven64 · 2010-11-19 02:03 · Score: 3, Insightful

iPhone was never revolutionary, we always had a lot of multitouch phones with a full browser, easy to install apps, and features that even mere mortals can figure out (which ones??).
Aside from the multitouch phone, that describes pretty much any Nokia smartphone in the last 5 years.
Full browser: they included Opera, then switched to a WebKit-based browser a bit before the iPhone was released (you realise that the work to make WebKit run in something with as little memory as an iPhone was done by Nokia, right?).
Easy to install apps? Sure, just copy it across and hit install. Can be accomplished via bluetooth (select the file, hit 'send to device' on your computer - no wires), by copying it to an SD card, or by copying it via the supplied USB cable. No iTunes store, but no harder than installing an app on Windows.
Features that mere mortals can figure out? Kind of vague, but syncing the address book and calendar is a one-click operation (via bluetooth, no cable required, unlike the iPhone) from my Mac, and apparently it's similarly simple under Windows. Calling and SMS are pretty simple to use. The music player is a single button away, and integrates with the FM radio if you get bored with your own music. Note taking is pretty easy too.
Multitouch was new, although Apple's gesture interface had been demonstrated almost a decade earlier by in academia and even in TED talks by the people who actually invented it. Capacitive touch screens were not invented by Apple, and they weren't cheap enough to use in a phone until around the time of the iPhone launch, so they'd probably have shown up soon without the iPhone.
That's not to say that the iPhone isn't a good implementation (largely a good implementation of other people's ideas, but you can't have everything), but calling it revolutionary is pure fanboyism.

--
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Re:Revolution by nomadic · 2010-11-19 02:20 · Score: 4, Informative

For example, Wii's controllers aren't revolutionary, we had those for a long time (where??).

Arcades. The Wii was a direct outgrowth of similar devices in arcades.

Another example: iPhone was never revolutionary, we always had a lot of multitouch phones with a full browser, easy to install apps, and features that even mere mortals can figure out (which ones??).

Huh? Who said we had multitouch phones? All you have to do is add that to your list to suddenly exclude all other phones, while at the same time implying that none of these other phones have the other characteristics you have on your list. Apple did not invent smartphones.
Re:Revolution by lidocaineus · 2010-11-19 02:30 · Score: 1

Multitouch new? I suggest you look at where Apple got multitouch to begin with.
Re:Revolution by nomorecwrd · 2010-11-19 03:05 · Score: 1

mmm
I agree with you in the controllers. We had all the tech, but no one glued it together the way Nintendo did.

On the other hand GP was talking about the iPod, not the iPhone. Today almost everywhere people talk about iPod as a generic term referring to mp3 players. Truth is, the iPod came out years after consumer - portable - mp3 players where popular. That's good Marketing!
Re:Revolution by John+Betonschaar · 2010-11-19 03:18 · Score: 4, Insightful

Aside from the multitouch phone, that describes pretty much any Nokia smartphone in the last 5 years.
Wait, are you using Nokia as an example of 'great smartphones we had before the iPhone was released'? Nokia, of all cellphone manufacturs?? You mean NOKIA, which is now struggling to stay relevant because they didn't have a single real touchscreen smartphone worth a dime until the N900 came along? Nokia, who only introduced their first decent touchscreen phone less than two years ago?
That's hilarious... I've owned at least 6 Nokia phones over the last 10 year, and if there is ANY phone brand that has missed the smartphone boat completely, it's Nokia. Their dumbphones and feature phones are great and I loved them, but please, if Nokia is what you first think of when someone takes the first iPhone as the benchmark for all later smartphones, you either don't know Nokia, or you don't know the iPhone. The last Nokia I bought was a 5800, which is only 1 or 1.5 years old, and while it was a pretty decent phone for calling and texting, it can't hold a candle to even the first generation iPhone. The browser was near-unusable (slow, buggy, didn't render many sites properly), the touchscreen was pretty unresponsive (resistive) and there were almost no applications available that used the touchscreen properly (which wasn't surprising because it was the first S60r5 phone, which was the first symbian version to even support touchscreens in the first place).
I have to concur with the PP, people get used to revolutionary products so fast they assume there was nothing revolutionary about it in the first place. The iPhone is a good example, but there are many more.
Re:Revolution by John+Betonschaar · 2010-11-19 03:21 · Score: 1

Wasn't the 1st gen iPod also the first MP3 player with a HDD, the first player that could store GB's of music, and the first player that had a graphical LCD with a graphical user interface?
Not trying to troll or start a flamewar, I just can't remember there was anything remotely like the first iPod when it was brand new.
Re:Revolution by KlomDark · 2010-11-19 03:26 · Score: 0

Didn't they steal it from Xerox PARC and then Microsoft stole it from them. Or is that another story?
Re:Revolution by Raumkraut · 2010-11-19 03:52 · Score: 1

No, it was not.
As was noted on Slashdot at the time:
"No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame."
Here's a Nomad review from almost a year before Apple's iPod annoucement.
Re:Revolution by hedwards · 2010-11-19 03:53 · Score: 1

The iPhone was basically just an iPod except as a cell phone and the App store is basically just the ITMS for apps. There wasn't anywhere near as much innovation there as people seem to think. Sure they took the buttons away, but Steve Jobs would take away the buttons on a TV if he could get away with it, the man hates buttons with a passion.

It's easy to call the iPhone revolutionary if you ignore the ideas and technology they took from elsewhere. It doesn't magically become revolutionary simply because you apply already accessible techniques to a different area.
Re:Revolution by hedwards · 2010-11-19 03:55 · Score: 1

Indeed, I'm guessing that what's probably happening is that they're taking advantage of the Wii to delay the successor as long as they can. Presumably they're going to use the extra time to improve it to the point where it's even better.
Re:Revolution by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 03:58 · Score: 0

Arcades. The Wii was a direct outgrowth of similar devices in arcades.
Care to elaborate? I've never seen anything like that in arcades prior to the Wii. If it were in other countries I'd understand, but here in the US I don't remember anything like that. The closest I've seen were lightguns
Re:Revolution by nomorecwrd · 2010-11-19 04:05 · Score: 1

Here's a Nomad review from almost a year before Apple's iPod annoucement.
BTW... Happy 10th anniversary on that review.
Re:Revolution by MightyYar · 2010-11-19 04:24 · Score: 1

The iPod was the first hard-drive based MP3 player with a pocket-able form factor. Before the iPod, you had a choice of a small flash-based player or a brick player that used a laptop hard drive. The iPod was the first to split the middle size-wise and use the new Toshiba mini drives. It also looked nice, felt solid, and was compelling enough that it sold to many Windows users even though it was initially Mac-only.
5GB doesn't sound like much today, and it was certainly not as much as the Nomad had - but it was a huge improvement over the 128MB and 256MB flash players of it's day. You'd probably chuckle a little at the size of the original iPod if you saw someone using one on the train today, but you'd completely loose it if you saw someone using a Nomad.

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W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Re:Revolution by Flipao · 2010-11-19 04:31 · Score: 1

You show me a mobile device that had drag scrolling, visual voicemail, pinch to zoom, a smooth, responsive UI and a proper browser before the iPhone came along.

I'm sure someone had it in a lab somewhere, in the market?, no fucking way, so yeah, it was a revolution and if you look around, every new smartphone looks just like it one way or another.
Re:Revolution by Gilmoure · 2010-11-19 04:53 · Score: 1

You can feel Nintendo is losing it's Mojo for anyone who has been playing the last 20+ years of gaming.
Wii was the first console I've bought since Atari 5200. Made a 9 year old really happy!

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I drank what? -- Socrates
Re:Revolution by blahplusplus · 2010-11-19 05:36 · Score: 2, Insightful

"Wii was the first console I've bought since Atari 5200. Made a 9 year old really happy!"
I understand that but what you're referring to is demographic shift - i.e. everything old is new again, bot for long time gamers who've grown up with games, the quality has been going down and that is quite worrisome, for those who are new and whose first games are recent releases, they do not have the experience to judge what has occurred.
Re:Revolution by Timmmm · 2010-11-19 05:37 · Score: 1

The Wii was a direct outgrowth of similar devices in arcades.
What arcade game is it similar to?
Re:Revolution by Gilmoure · 2010-11-19 05:45 · Score: 1

Yeah, the only computer game I play anymore (can't do first/third person 3d stuff due to headaches) is SMAC/X. I've been playing this game, over and over again, since 2001 or 2002. I guess I'm easily amused.

--
I drank what? -- Socrates
Re:Revolution by Achra · 2010-11-19 05:50 · Score: 4, Insightful

I have mod points, but decided to reply instead: The Wii is not a direct competitor for the PS3/Xbox360. You know how I know this? Because most gamers I know own both a Wii and one of the PS3/Xbox360 (usually the 360). This shows that the Wii is sufficiently dissimilar to the 360 to not be a competitor, that it is something different in terms of gaming.
I'm _glad_ that Nintendo decided to take a step back from the graphics arms race this generation and focus on the control scheme. It has forced them to really remember that what matters is the game itself, not how it looks. You're taking potshots at Wii games that you don't like, but that is only your opinion. I've been a Nintendo fanboy since 1985 and I can tell you that I fucking love Metroid. Always have. I also love Super Mario Bros, and I think that the New Super Mario Bros game is fantastic. Nintendo made some really smart moves with this console, aiming it squarely between the eyes of early 30-something parents, people that have been playing Nintendo from the start and have kids. You know what is interesting? My 5 year old daughter loves to play the Wii more than any other game console in the house (I have a few... Dreamcast/PS2/Gamecube/2 360's/PS1) and what does she play on it? Sidescrollers. She loves the sidescrollers. and she beats them! It was pure genius on the part of Nintendo to make the Wiimote into a sidewise NES controller, and pure genius again to offer the classic NES games for impulse buy prices. After a few beers, $5 Mike Tyson's PunchOut sounds like a great idea! To summarize, The Wii is not competition to the 360, and I'm glad. I own both, and play both.

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Each processor would proceed sequentially as if it had been better for them not to rise against Saul.
Re:Revolution by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 06:07 · Score: 0

That's hilarious... I've owned at least 6 Nokia phones over the last 10 year, and if there is ANY phone brand that has missed the smartphone boat completely, it's Nokia.
Nokia pretty much invented the concept of a smartphone - a phone with PDA capabilities. The iPhone (i.e. a PDA with call functionality) is obviously a more American concept.
Nokia is not the first (and definitely won't be the last) company to be pushed to the sidelines and ignored in the US - simply because it not from the US. There's hardly a more protectionist market than the US.
This is of course also seen in the parent post - hardly any other market leader with 40 % global marketshare (of smartphones) is described as "struggling to stay relevant".
Re:Revolution by Gilmoure · 2010-11-19 06:11 · Score: 1

Just picked up our Wii last month. D'oh! So trailing edge.

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I drank what? -- Socrates
Re:Revolution by RoboRay · 2010-11-19 06:56 · Score: 1

If I remember correctly, the 4GB microdrive (in CompactFlash media form-factor) Creative Muvo2 was out before the first microdrive iPod, although not by much. It's certainly pocketable. Heck, I still use mine from time to time when travelling due to the long battery life and tiny size.
Re:Revolution by owyn999 · 2010-11-19 07:01 · Score: 1

The wii uses very similar technology to games like Police 911 Police 911 2 and The Boxing Game. Although the technology used in those 3 games is more similar to the Kinect and PSMove. Although I must agree that the idea of motion tech was evolutionary, but making it the sole focus of the console was where the actual revolution was not to mention that they were able to offer it at a take home price point.

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Where's that cap to the Decanter of Endless water???
Re:Revolution by Beardo+the+Bearded · 2010-11-19 07:18 · Score: 1

It's not the hardware, it's the games. We agree totally. I own two consoles -- a Wii (and a lot of plastic to go with it) and PS2 (that I rescued from someone's garbage).
Nintendo simply hasn't put anything new on the Wii. They're all sequels or ports or ports of sequels. Even TP is a Gamecube game.
The only title I can think of that's original is No More Heroes.

--

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ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
Re:Revolution by AK+Marc · 2010-11-19 07:20 · Score: 1

The competitors are just now getting around to giving their response to the controller. Let them ship for at least a year before the next console. That way, if you greatly trump them, they can't respond as fast (since with the sunk cost in the kinect/move, people will be unwilling to throw out their new system for the next one). I'm not sure what they want with the next one. Since the others are trying to move towards the Wii to recapture that market, the Wii either needs to meet them in the middle (improve graphics and home-theater capabilities) or move away in some innovative way I still haven't conceived of. But doing what they've done with the Wii will result in failure as their competitors target them specifically and work to marginalize them.

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Learn to love Alaska
Re:Revolution by MightyYar · 2010-11-19 07:39 · Score: 1

Creative Muvo2 was out before the first microdrive iPod,

A quick Google seems to show that the iPod came out in 2001 and the Muvo2 in 2004.

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W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Re:Revolution by RoboRay · 2010-11-19 08:24 · Score: 1

That 2001 iPod didn't feature a tiny 1.3" microdrive and an easily pocketable form-factor, which is the 5GB model I thought you were talking about.
Re:Revolution by Timmmm · 2010-11-19 08:41 · Score: 1

Huh? You're saying Wii, which is accelerometer based, is similar to light gun game. But the technology used in the light gun games is more similar to vision-based people tracking or IMU tracking? That makes no sense.
Anyway, I agree that Wii was more revolutionary than evolutionary in the sense that it was the first console not to use game pads.
Re:Revolution by pugugly · 2010-11-19 10:30 · Score: 2, Funny

It's best to ignore the echo chamber, they never learn.
I keep hearing people say that . . .
Sorry, cheap joke, and I'm better than that . . . no I'm not . . .
{G} - Pug

--
An Invisible Entity of Vast Power whose existence must be taken on faith alone: Liberal Media
Re:Revolution by MightyYar · 2010-11-19 11:32 · Score: 1

Yeah the original iPod used the then-new high-capacity 1.8" form factor. They had a monopoly on the drives for a while - one reason there wasn't any real competition for a while.

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W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Re:Revolution by blahplusplus · 2010-11-19 11:33 · Score: 0, Flamebait

"You're taking potshots at Wii games that you don't like,"
I'm not taking pot shots. I'm seriously discussing wide acknowledgement of LOWER GAME QUALITY, I must have played them to know they are of lower quality compared to past games, not only that I bought them on launch day. So please take your "fanboy defense" elsewhere. I'm trying to have a serious discussion about the merits and drawbacks of the Wii you come along taking it as a personal attack and "defend".
Perhaps you would like to see other M's Metacritic score? (79 FYI)
http://www.metacritic.com/game/wii/metroid-other-m
It's quote obvious that a lot of people are aware of the decline of many of Nintendo's franchises and the evidence is abundant on the net.
I'm not merely taking "pot shots" at these games, many gamers feel the exact same way. That the quality of games is going down in GENERAL across platforms. See: Supcom 2, Civ 5, etc, and look at user reviews and metacritic ratings.
Re:Revolution by RoboRay · 2010-11-19 11:51 · Score: 1

And then Creative almost had a monopoly on the 1.3" 4GB drives. Apple got enough to ship some iPods with then, then switched to a similar 5GB model when it became available.
A lot of the Muvo2s were actually gutted by photographers who wanted the drives for the CompactFlash slots of their DSLRs, since the biggest flash CFs at the time were like 512MB. They usually just swapped the Muvo's microdrive for a flash CF and resold the player on eBay as a lower capacity device.
Re:Revolution by josath · 2010-11-19 15:13 · Score: 1

Huh? I don't think I've ever seen an arcade game with a motion controller like the wiimote, where it senses the motion of your controller. Are you only talking about the pointing feature? The technology behind that is completely different from the "light guns" used in arcade games (of which there are actually a couple different kinds of tech). (The wiimote actually has an IR camera in it). Apple did not invent smartphones, but when the iPhone came out, it was significantly better than anything on the market. Palm was getting long in the tooth, Blackberry too focused on the enterprise, Windows Mobile always sucked (They imported too much from the desktop, such as the start button, and crashes that require reboots) and Nokia never really had true smartphones. Their standard phones were among the best out there, but you couldn't compare what they had to even windows mobile.

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sig? uhh, umm, ok
Re:Revolution by seebs · 2010-11-19 19:41 · Score: 1

Uh, no. I'm a long-time gamer, I grew up with games, and game quality has been massively improving for the last thirty-some years.
Nostalgia is not an accurate representation of reality.

--
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
Re:Revolution by KDR_11k · 2010-11-19 21:00 · Score: 1

Other M was an isolated case of the creator becoming too enamored with himself and fucking up as a result. Most other Nintendo games have been going UP in quality this generation. Everybody agrees that the Galaxy games are the best 3D Mario games out there, for example.

--
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Re:Revolution by KDR_11k · 2010-11-19 21:02 · Score: 1

Did you not notice that Wii Sports game that came with the system? That's the kind of new game that's been making billions for Nintendo.

--
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Re:Revolution by alexandre_ganso · 2010-11-21 00:01 · Score: 1

Nintendo does great games - no one denies it. But on the wii, it looks like only them does.
I have a wii, and an xbox. I have bought much more games for the xbox than for the wii. You know why? Most wii games suck hard.
My first wii had one of those chips that allow you to use downloaded games. And I downloaded pretty much every wii game available. Most of them does not stand for 3 minutes. The good ones I bought - All mario titles, wii sports, wii fit, wii sports resort and all the guitar hero and rock band titles. They were great.
But that's it. I would love to play assassin's creed with a wiimote, or GTA, for instance.
And not pay 65 euros for COOKING MAMA or HELL'S KITCHEN (although I would like a decent kitchen game)
Re:Revolution by bami · 2010-11-21 04:25 · Score: 1

The wiimote uses both a accelerometer as well as a vision based setup
You stack this "sensor bar" on top of your TV, which contains two IR LED's (replacing the white circle flicker thing that was used with lightguns)
The front of the wiimote contains an IR camera, and the wiimote itself processes the image into two lightblobs, which get transmitted to the Wii. It then tracks those blobs to get a reference on the rotation on the TV-facing axis of the wiimote, the distance between the blobs for the distance between the mote and the TV, the position of the blobs for the part of the screen the wiimote is pointing at, and it uses the accelerometers to try to guess things when it has no direct line-of-sight with the sensor bar. An accelerometer alone would never give enough accuracy to pinpoint the location a wiimote is pointing at, only a general idea on how the thing is rotated compared to the earth g-vector.
In terms of hardware, the Playstation Move comes closest to the wii, but instead of having two light points on your TV, the sensor is next to the TV with the players waving light points around. Kinect uses a whole different setup, projecting a IR grid on the room, and then using IR sensors to pickup the distance between a gridpoint in 2D and 3D projected space.
Re:Revolution by nomadic · 2010-11-21 05:04 · Score: 1

There was a boxing game in the arcade where you actually put on a pair of gloves that predates the Wii. There was also a fighting game that involved you getting into an actual little ring and the game sensed your movement that predates the Wii. Check out this 2002 strip from Penny Arcade and the accompanying news story.
Re:Revolution by shnull · 2010-11-21 18:03 · Score: 0

the general opinion among 'my gang of gamers' is indeed that wii is a console for parents with kids while the others are consoles for 'real' gamers with ps3 getting the advantage for being newer, having a bluray and some promise of better processing power that no one has ever seen yet. Me, i stick with my xbox 360 cos i cant see the diff between tekken 6 on 360 or ps3 and im sure wont see it with the next mortal kombat either. The lack of new consoles might be good for pc-gaming tho since hardware in all of them gets older while pc cards still get upgraded ... might be, not sure, my crystal ball is not broken but it needs to be dusted and ' i don't have time' (tsss, dont people just love saying that)

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beware he who denies you access to information for in his mind, he already deems himself to be your master (SMAC-ish)
Re:Revolution by Steve+Max · 2010-11-22 02:24 · Score: 1

Most wii games suck hard.
This is true for every console, IMHO, and specially for the ones that sell the most in their generation. Look at the PS2: it had thousands of crapware/shovelware titles, and a few definitely great games. Same for the PS1, SNES, etc. Maybe the percentage of great games is lower on the Wii, but you can't seriously believe that there are more good games than bad games in any console.
Re:Revolution by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 08:39 · Score: 1

You show me a mobile device that had drag scrolling, visual voicemail, pinch to zoom, a smooth, responsive UI and a proper browser before the iPhone came along.
Proper browser? Opera has been shipping full web browsers on mobile phones for more than ten years. By the time the iPhone came along, Opera was already shipping its latest generation browser engine on various phones.

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Clever signature text goes here.
Re:Revolution by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 08:42 · Score: 1

As I told someone else, Opera has been shipping full browsers for more than a decade. Not that the iPhone wasn't a huge leap in the right direction, of course. They just didn't do quite everything first. Opera even did the whole zoom in/out to read thing before Apple.

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Re:Revolution by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 08:50 · Score: 1

What do you mean by "lower game quality"? Is New Super Mario Bros. Wii a low quality game (is it in decline, even though it has sold amazingly well?)? What about Wii Sports?
It's very odd that you pick the crappiest game you could find (Metroiod Other M). What about the really, really popular best-sellers from Nintendo? Everyone knows Sakamoto (the guy who made Other M) is a moron who was in love with his own "visions."

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Re:Revolution by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 08:58 · Score: 1

the lack of games on the Wii due to not having competitive hardware power
You mean, "lack of hardcore games with extremely long cutscenes, blood and gore", don't you? You always have the crappy Metroid Other M if you like cutscenes... But most games on the Wii are supposed to be fun rather than pretending to be movies.

this time the games over all are crappier and of lower quality then in the gamecube
New Super Mario Bros. Wii is crappy?

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It isn't just innovation but value for money too by mrpacmanjel · 2010-11-19 01:15 · Score: 1

It isn't just innovation but value for money too

Here in the UK the Wii is poor value for money.

There is a small selection of games (compared to PS3 & xbox 360) and generally poorer quality than other console versions. Also it appears less Wii games make it to budget then other consoles too.

We own a Wii and only my son plays it now because the only decent games for it are the LEGO series.

Expensive controllers too:
PS3 motion controller = £30
Wii motionplus & wiimote = £50

I've gone back to playing games on my PC - we are planning to sell our Wii and buy a different console which will give us more choice and a wider range of games.

Nintendo by ledow · 2010-11-19 01:18 · Score: 5, Insightful

Nintendo has been in business for a lot longer than almost any company you can name (1889!) and have seen off some enormous rivals several times (Sega, Atari, etc.).

Nintendo make profit on almost everything they release.

Nintendo make big releases every now and again, stringing them on with life support in the form of games that turn out to become famous in their own right.

When Nintendo do plop down a new console it's invariably innovative and top-of-its-game (not necessarily the best hardware, but definitely better in gaming terms).

Nintendo is an inventor. They toil away in their little sheds for years in complete secrecy until one day they walk out, plop something into a business person's hands and blow everyone away. Then while the market are still reeling from that, they just wander quietly back into their shed and aren't seen for another few years when they rinse and repeat.

Precisely BECAUSE they aren't saying "Oh, no, our competitors have something new, we have to copy it in our own way and get back into the game" is why they are able to do what they do. They don't really care about Kinect, or anything else - they have money enough to last a decade, and that gives them a decade to make something even more spectacular without having to worry about the day-to-day running of the businesses. Wiis are still being sold but they have enough to go back into their shed and devote the next few years to R&D and playtesting which the other rivals *cannot*. They will have their own ideas, which might work (Wii) or might flop (VirtualBoy) but will be away from the conventional elements of the time that are competing in the market. And when they deliver their next invention, people will give them millions and, because of using their brains and not just throwing expensive hardware at a problem, they will invariably make profit on every unit sold.

It's also true that they decide what they want in the next, say, Mario game. They decide what they want to be able to do. Then they build a console around that, not the other way around.

You can try to make Nintendo look foolish and show how "you know better" if you want, but invariably you will end up with egg on your face. Nintendo know their market better than anyone - they almost single-handedly invented it. Leave them be. The "Wii 2" (which it will almost certainly NEVER be named) will be to the Wii what the Wii was to the Gamecube, or the Gamecube to the N64, or the N64 to the SNES, or the SNES to the NES, or the equivalent trail in the handheld markets. It will take years to arrive - you'll have just about forgotten about your Wii and Nintendo will be absent from the market for a year or so - and then it'll blow your socks off. After a few months people will complain that it doesn't do X or Y or that it's "outdated" or "underpowered" while Nintendo will have another decade's research money under their belt and be working on the next one.

Nintendo know what they are doing. Sod Wii 2. I want whatever the next stage is - which will be more advanced gameplay-wise than anything on the market in the next few years.

Re:Nintendo by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 03:13 · Score: 0

gamecube was a flop, a misserable horrid flop, they had to release something inovative in this last race, also for those who are unaware the next xbox is slated for end of 2011 begining of 2012 and will inveriable overheat.
Re:Nintendo by hedwards · 2010-11-19 04:10 · Score: 1

Of course it won't be Wii 2, it'll be Super Wii.
Re:Nintendo by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 04:15 · Score: 0

Nintendo know what they are doing. Sod Wii 2. I want whatever the next stage is - which will be more advanced gameplay-wise than anything on the market in the next few years.
It's time for Virtual Boy 2.
Re:Nintendo by LordLimecat · 2010-11-19 04:42 · Score: 1

Wiis are still being sold but they have enough to go back into their shed and devote the next few years to R&D and playtesting which the other rivals *cannot*.
Im a nintendo fanboy, no lie, but youre seriously underestimating both Sony and MS here. Lets keep in mind that up until recently PS2s were STILL being sold (and might continue to be?), and that Microsoft has ridiculous resources with which to create console after console whether or not they flop. Nintendo has had a great many successes, but lets also not forget that the N64 was considered a flop (due to Sony eating their lunch) and the Gamecube was semi-mediocre in terms of sales.
Re:Nintendo by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 09:18 · Score: 0

I interpret his post as: there are multiple facets to success. At the very least, innovation is one, and having the finances to see it through is another. Nintendo has both right now, in large doses.
But Microsoft and Sony? Mostly what they have now is the cash. The Xbox and 360 didn't do much innovative; they were put out there to simply EXIST with Microsoft's name on it and Microsoft's money backing it, hoping that they'd be the last man standing and own the next console generation. The PS1/2/3 innovations were primarily that they pushed new disc formats - CD, DVD, BD - earlier than most others.
Nintendo scored big by doing something different, doing it well, and doing it cheaper than anyone else. Microsoft and Sony are scrambling to capture some of those gamers with expensive copies of the same concepts, and I'm not sure that's really going to help them much.
You can maybe eke out a victory in some markets simply by being bigger, if there are only really two players. But in this case there are three very big players and, historically, really really disloyal customers. You've got to actually compete to win; not merely exist, not merely react to what the others are doing, but proactively do compelling new things. MS and Sony had a weak showing this time because they relied on "we're huge, let's do the same thing again but more so, and we will win by default".
Ideally, we'd have a fourth strong contender too. Just to hedge against the possibility that a major failure would reduce the field from three to two. A two way fight over the gaming market would be ugly and not beneficial to gamers in any way, shape, or form.
Re:Nintendo by default+luser · 2010-11-19 09:20 · Score: 1

No way man, the only proper name ould be "Wii Wii"

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Re:Nintendo by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 10:36 · Score: 0

Nintendo has been in business for a lot longer than almost any company you can name (1889!)
First one that came to mind: Bavaria beer brewery. 1719, and still going strong.
With the occasional funny commercial - though your tastes may vary.
Back to the point: first company that came to mind was 170 years older, and I wasn't even trying :)
Re:Nintendo by LordLimecat · 2010-11-19 14:10 · Score: 1

MS had a decent showing, though in raw numbers they did get thrashed. Sony has done some cool things, but ultimately they havent really been innovating lately other, and their numbers have been hurting because of it.

5 years from now, I expect Sony to be coming out with Yet Another Overpowered System, MS to be releasing another polished system with excellent online integration, and Nintendo to continue to do the Nintendo thing and come out with something off the wall (Gamecube? DS? Wii? etc etc). And I expect the numbers to be similar to this round, with MS and Nintendo on top and Sony wondering why people still dont like them or their overpriced system.
Re:Nintendo by josath · 2010-11-19 15:19 · Score: 1

It's already been announced. They're calling their new portable 3D stereo vision handheld the 3DS. Likely with being easily held in your hand and not requiring glasses, it wont flop like the virtual boy.

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Re:Nintendo by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 09:24 · Score: 1

How is he underestimating Sony and MS? Both of them are desperately trying to catch up, while Nintendo is already working away at the successor to the Wii, which they have already stated will attempt to bring fresh experiences to gaming (not just prettier graphics and more accurate controls).

Nintendo has had a great many successes, but lets also not forget that the N64 was considered a flop (due to Sony eating their lunch) and the Gamecube was semi-mediocre in terms of sales.
That's because Nintendo participated in the hardware race. With the Wii, they opted out of that. They will do so with their next console, too.

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One word? How about one character? by denzacar · 2010-11-19 01:19 · Score: 2, Funny

Had they called their current console "Wi" instead of "Wii" they could have just tacked that single 'i' for the 2.0 version instead of adding an entire '2' and thus rising the length of the console's name to 4 characters.
Just think of the money they could have saved in marketing by saving all that ink, commercial time, reusing old characters and such.
Not to mention all that accumulated saving down the road with Wii3 (Wiii) and Wii4 (WiW).

They must be kicking themselves in the ass right now for being so shortsighted.

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Re:One word? How about one character? by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 01:40 · Score: 0

wiw?
wow!
btw... wiv.
Re:One word? How about one character? by pugugly · 2010-11-19 11:17 · Score: 1

So call it the WIIII!

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Nintendo... by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 01:21 · Score: 0

haven't care about the Wii for a long time now. Wii's lack of game has not hurt Nintendo at all, since about everybody has a Wii even if they don't really play with it and Nintendo actually never losed money on hardware unlike MS or Sony. They are focused on NDS wich has been their lil' personal money cow for the last years, making up for any Wii's failure, that's why they are far more interested on releasing the 3DS next year than a Wii succesor.

Uh, what? by Kjella · 2010-11-19 01:26 · Score: 1

It's still the best selling console of 2010 worldwide. Last week put it between the xbox 360 and PS3 in sales. I'd love to be failing this well. Yes, we know it lacks power and the oomph of the motion controller is not that big anymore. But there's no xbox 720, PS4 or whatever announced yet either. Nintendo don't want to show their hand so early that Microsoft and Sony can copy it for their launches. Either they have to wait for another console rematch, or they have to play for a "helf-generation" console that surpasses the xbox and ps3, not just is on par with them. And I don't think Nintendo is ready to fight for the performance crown.

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Re:Uh, what? by drinkypoo · 2010-11-19 01:45 · Score: 1

When anyone announces their next-generation console, the scramble is on. Interesting that no one seems interested yet.

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"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Uh, what? by rwv · 2010-11-19 02:17 · Score: 1

When anyone announces their next-generation console, the scramble is on.

Historically it has been a 7-year cycle. The Wii came out in 2006. That places the Wii 2 (Electric Bugaloo) somewhere in 2013.
I still play my Wii, though I'm a casual gamer who generally avoids one-player games. Right now Kirby's Epic Yarn is getting a small bit of my attention. I'm caught between thinking it's a fun, simple game and the realization that it was designed for 8-year-olds (note: I'm 28). In any case, it's enjoyable. That's all video games need to achieve... if people have a good time playing them, then mission accomplished.
Re:Uh, what? by drinkypoo · 2010-11-19 03:10 · Score: 3, Insightful

I really don't care what age a game was designed for. If it's fun, it's fun. If it has a good mechanic and control scheme and lets me skip any cutscenes that piss on my mind, it's a good game. Better crap graphics than crap input. I want my framerate, but other than that, for some games the graphics on the Atari VCS are overkill.

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"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Uh, what? by Y-Crate · 2010-11-19 07:57 · Score: 1

When anyone announces their next-generation console, the scramble is on. Interesting that no one seems interested yet.
There are two reasons.
The economy really sucks. New consoles are very expensive, and a $150 - $200 controller + game combo is a much easier investment than $400 + games + misc crap you end up buying with a new console (e.x: they rarely come with the cables you want). Don't forget that retailers love to throw mandatory bundles at early adopters. So a new console can easily cost between $500 - $600 after all is said and done.
Then you've got to consider the economics of the hardware itself. Both the 360 and PS3 took a while to become anything but money sinks. While the original Xbox was surprisingly solid and well-designed, if bulky, the 360 was rushed through development. It was released with a lot of stupid, stupid, stupid design flaws that took forever to deal with. Apparently the key people that made the good decisions in '98 / '99 weren't around to prevent the money-losing disaster that was the 360. (Side note: The lack of a standard hard drive was to me, the first sign that Redmond had bungled the project on the managerial level, and bad things were on the horizon)
The PS3 was designed to get Blu-Ray into your living room, and the initial cost was absolutely absurd. Sony's response amounted to "Deal with it. You'll pay it."
People largely didn't.
The Cell processor didn't become the industry-changing force Sony hoped. Sure, IBM uses it for some stuff, but the development costs weren't amortized over multiple platforms to the degree Sony had imagined. (They offered the chip to Apple when it was getting ready to ditch the PowerPC, and Steve Jobs turned them down for technical reasons.) The Cell was supposed to show up in all sorts of consumer electronics, but that never happened.
So they lost money too. A lot of it.
By now the Xbox 360 hardware has been stabilized - the bugs squashed. The 360 and PS3 have been value-engineered to be much cheaper to build. Both Sony and Microsoft are finally able to make the kind of money they were hoping to rake in a long time ago. While new consoles are undoubtably under development, Microsoft and Sony's investors are probably not interested in them losing tons more on another launch in a crappy economy.

Wii Wii? by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 01:37 · Score: 0

The name produced sniggers world-wide when introduced, why buck the trend - the next version of the Wii should be the 'Wii Wii' !

Waiting for the technology to catch up. by miffo.swe · 2010-11-19 01:39 · Score: 1

Nintendo have been making boatloads of money with the Wii while Microsoft and Sony barely break even right now. Microsoft have not recouped the expenses, they are just breaking even. Its a long time before they have a profit gain from the whole escapade.

The problem for Nintendo is that much of the interesting stuff arent ready yet like real 3D instead of those 1950s glasses we have rediscovered. Real time rendering are also not availiable yet. Sensory feedback is very hard and expensive if you go beyond buzzing and rumbling.

The best they can accomplish is a hardware upgrade and better accuracy of the controller unless they come up with something really new. I suspect they want to upgrade out of cycle with regards to both Microsoft and Sony and take them with their pants down especially if they just do a hardware upgrade. The current release forecast of 2012 makes me wonder if they have something new and exciting in store after all. Sadly i cant imagine what it could ever be, but then again i could never in my life imagine the Wii Controller or the huge marketshare of the Wii.

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Re:Waiting for the technology to catch up. by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 09:21 · Score: 1

The problem for Nintendo is that much of the interesting stuff arent ready yet like real 3D instead of those 1950s glasses we have rediscovered.

Why is that a problem to Nintendo? They made it very clear that they are not doing 3D with their next home console because there's no demand for it, and the technology isn't there.

The best they can accomplish is a hardware upgrade and better accuracy of the controller unless they come up with something really new.
What makes you think they can't come up with something new? Everyone else thought hardware upgrades was all there was to consoles before the Wii. Nintendo thought different.

I suspect they want to upgrade out of cycle with regards to both Microsoft and Sony and take them with their pants down especially if they just do a hardware upgrade.
Nintendo will not release a new console with mere hardware upgrades. They said that their next console will do something new again.

The current release forecast of 2012
Whose forecast is that?

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One Word and it's NO... by beh · 2010-11-19 01:46 · Score: 2, Insightful

There have been 'improvements' on what Nintendo did - but I wouldn't really call yet another motion sensor an 'innovation'. (Think how many MSFT 'innovations' you just yawned at, as they were things that existed elsewhere long ago).

Nintendo innovated the console market by bringing those controllers.

It was Sony/Microsoft who jumped on it later - to claw back marketshare lost to Nintendo.

In much the same way - in the phone world, the iPhone was the innovation. There is virtually no new phone that doesn't just try and piggy back on the path paved by the iPhone. Even if there are Android phones that have more CPU power, cheaper, ... They weren't the innovators. Someone else (at Apple) had the big idea on how to revolutionize the market, all the others came years later - then touting other features.

Take it - the fact that Android was multitasking before the iPhone wasn't as much of an 'innovation', as the iPhone itself was to any phone preceeding it.

The über-powerful PS3 or XBox 360 primarily introduced newer hardware - something that was expected to happen - everyone does it.

The Wii brought something new, something unexpected to the market - hence THEY were the innovators, and even if they aren't on the forefront now - those that are are 'optimisers' at best, but not innovators, not pioneers, not people trying something NEW.

Re:One Word and it's NO... by ADRA · 2010-11-19 06:08 · Score: 1

"wasn't as much of an 'innovation', as the iPhone itself was to any phone preceeding it"
I find it highly dubious to say that from the entire life of mobile cellular phones, the one single and distinctive watershed moment was the release of the iPhone 1. It may have been the most recent large shift in mobile phones, but by far not the biggest. I'd probably put that title on whomever first shipped a phone that used text messaging. Texting features: 99.9999% of handsets, used daily by billions of people.
I wouldn't say it was innovation that told Nintendo to not rev their chips. I think it was a gamble. If the Wii's control scheme was horrible then they'd shortly ditch it and move onto their 'next gen' console, but history was written differently and Nintendo can certainly be regarded as the winner in this console generation.

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Re:What Wii, GBC, and PSP-3000 have in common by Uranium-238 · 2010-11-19 01:47 · Score: 1

I distinctly remember the GBC having better hardware than the GB but maybe I'm mistake. In anycase the "next-gen" nintendo console will be released when it makes sense to release it, and then Microsoft and Sony will have to bring something new out, whether its just more exppansions for the PS3/360. I have always been a Nintendo fan and I think they're doing more than fine, even if it is 2 years until the next console they release. On a side note I bought my Wii not for the cutting edge graphics (ha-ha) or the amazing games, but for the virtual console and amazing backwards compatability that at least Sony completely missed out.

In what country? by tepples · 2010-11-19 01:50 · Score: 1

2009: Wii

In what country? Wii didn't come out in Hong Kong and China until 2009, but it was out three years earlier in most of the western industrialized world. I couldn't tell from your Homepage or Journal because you haven't provided any. I just checked your posting history, and comments such as this, this, and this that you're at least familiar with the U.S. market.

GB and GBC compared by tepples · 2010-11-19 01:58 · Score: 1

I distinctly remember the GBC having better hardware than the GB but maybe I'm mistake.

Not really:

GB: 4.2 MHz 8080-family CPU, 8 KiB RAM, 8 KiB VRAM, 2 non-overlapping planes and 40 8x16-pixel sprites with 4 grays per tile, fixed-function DMA unit.
GBC: 8.4 MHz 8080-family CPU, 32 KiB RAM, 16 KiB VRAM, nearly identical display model with color palette with 4 colors per tile, more general DMA unit.

That's evolutionary, not revolutionary. Are you sure you aren't thinking of the jump from GBC to GBA, which was arguably bigger than the jump from NES to Super NES?

I have always been a Nintendo fan

Nintendo lost me when it rejected Bob's Game, sued anyone and everyone in the DS flash card business, and released Wii Menu 4.2 and 4.3, rather than copying Microsoft's XNA Creators Club like Apple did.

Re:GB and GBC compared by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 04:22 · Score: 0

Well, given how 'Bob' reacted after being rejected, I'm not certain how they were in the wrong. And the problem with the DS Flash Carts is the piracy, plain and simple. If the carts could only run unsigned homebrew stuff, that's one thing. But the fact is most of those carts, like the R4, were used mostly for running pirated games. Some weren't, I acknowledge, but it makes casual piracy as simple as just downloading, copying the file onto a memory card and selecting it from a menu. And once those casual pirates realize they can get something for nothing, it's more difficult to get them to stop.
That said, there DOES need to be a 'Creators Club'. Maybe a special cart that allows you to run code you compile, or maybe even build on your (3)DS yourself. Have it secured, but somewhat open, to let people play with their toy in more of a Lego Robotics, rather than Lego bricks.
Re:GB and GBC compared by tepples · 2010-11-19 06:20 · Score: 1

Well, given how 'Bob' reacted after being rejected, I'm not certain how they were in the wrong.
How should one have reacted to having been rejected by NOA?

And the problem with the DS Flash Carts is the piracy, plain and simple.
Likewise, the problem with BitTorrent is the piracy, plain and simple. Yet in Sony v. Universal, the US Supreme Court rejected a contributory infringement argument for anything with a substantial non-infringing use.

Maybe a special cart that allows you to run code you compile
Nintendo's idea of that is WarioWare DIY, an environment that acts more like Clickteam tools except more limited.

not surprising by nomadic · 2010-11-19 02:24 · Score: 1

Anyone who's been a gamer for a while should know that Nintendo has always been like this; they HATE developing new consoles. They have to be dragged kicking and screaming by their competitors. I think it's an outgrowth of their two consoles that pretty much monopolized the market for several years, the NES and the Game Boy, which were great for them; didn't have to budget R&D, just had to sit back and collect the licensing fees. In fact, I forget which console it was (this was back a few years), but I remember seeing actual Nintendo advertisements before one of their consoles coming out claiming that for this new console they had focused on gameplay, and it would be around for years, and pleading with gamers not to focus on graphics or power. It was one of the strangest ads I've ever seen.

Re:not surprising by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 09:19 · Score: 1

They hate developing new consoles? Huh? Where on earth are you getting this stuff from? They don't love or hate making new consoles. They will make new consoles whenever necessary. Just like everyone else.

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Uhhh by killmenow · 2010-11-19 02:26 · Score: 1

A coupla things come to mind here. First, this infographic shows as of May, the Wii is monstrously successful. It's been profitable from day one. Nintendo did just release their first six-month net loss in seven years and are predicting falling revenues as Wii sales stall but they've been stockpiling cash for years. So while they do have an issue to address there I think they've got a handle on it.

Second, and more importantly, mobile gaming is where the industry is heading. And guess who has a commanding lead in that market space? That's right, Nintendo. They sell more mobile/handheld gaming devices than anybody else in the world. The only current competition they even have is Apple as more and more people want to play games on their iPhones and to a lesser extent the Android platform (but while that benefits Google it doesn't make them so much of a direct competitor to Nintendo as Apple is). Yes, I've played around with a PSP and think they're okay but the market is not going for them and Sony has no clue what the mobile market wants.

Anyway, does Nintendo need to not rest on its laurels and drop the price of the Wii or take some kind of action to reinvigorate the product line? Yes. Will they? Most likely. Will it work? Probably...but no way to be certain.

And do they need to get a more capable game console on the market soon? I think so. But I also think it's BS that they're not planning on that already. The Wii was available to purchase in the US exactly 4 years ago today. The GameCube 5 yrs before that. The Nintendo 64 was 5 yrs before that. The SNES was a little over 5 yrs before that.

I'd be surprised if there's not a Wii 2 or whatever by the 2011 Christmas shopping season. But even if there's not, I'd be hard pressed to say Nintendo's down for the count. They've been around longer than any other game company. And they're surprisingly well managed.

Re:Uhhh by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 11:15 · Score: 1

I don't think Apple is a threat to Nintendo's portable gaming business. Nintendo is a pure gaming company, so they can do things like add dedicated buttons for gaming. That leads to a very different experience than touchscreen phones can offer. They will complement each other, just like PCs and home consoles exist side by side. PCs can play games, but they still didn't kill home consoles, remember.
And why would Nintendo release "Wii 2"? All they need to do is to release another game like New Super Mario Bros. Wii, and sales will skyrocket again.

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I'm more worried about 360 and PS3 by elrous0 · 2010-11-19 02:28 · Score: 2, Interesting

The five-year-rule is a long-standing tradition for console generations going back to the Atari days (even through several recessions and the console "collapse" of 1982). Both the 360 and PS3 are starting to show their age at this point (especially the 360, which doesn't even have a blu-ray drive), with no new console generation on the horizon. The 360 is now 5 years old and the PS3 is 4, and neither has even announced a new console generation. I'm tired of my console dropping further and further behind PC's, while all MS and Sony want to do is release lame Wii knockoff controllers. I'm tired of consoles that aren't powerful enough to handle MMO's, require multiple disc swaps to support the latest games, and slow to a crawl with modern high res textures.

Screw Nintendo, and screw Move and Kinect. Give me a new console generation!

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Re:I'm more worried about 360 and PS3 by emuls · 2010-11-19 03:57 · Score: 1

You're sick of consoles that aren't PC's? Why don't you just play PC games then?
Re:I'm more worried about 360 and PS3 by elrous0 · 2010-11-19 04:09 · Score: 1

Because I hate PC controls, can't play a PC game on my couch, got sick of trying to figure out if I had the right video card/what settings I had to run at/if I needed to upgrade/paying for constant upgrades/etc. I like the ergonomic analog controller. I like the fact that I never have to worry about compatibility issues and upgrades only come along every five years. And I like the simplicity and ease of Xbox Live.
I also like the fact that I can buy and sell my games used. I buy almost all of my games used (for a fraction of what I would have paid for them new). You can't do that with PC games anymore, thanks to Steam and authentication.

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SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Re:I'm more worried about 360 and PS3 by hedwards · 2010-11-19 04:13 · Score: 1

That's invariable, if you could put in a new graphics card or RAM it wouldn't really be a console anymore. The XBox 360 in particular is really testing the limits of what can reasonably be called a console, as it's more or less a standard computer with a custom OS. At least the PS3 has a non-standard processor.
Re:I'm more worried about 360 and PS3 by powerlord · 2010-11-19 04:17 · Score: 1

The five-year-rule is a long-standing tradition for console generations going back to the Atari days (even through several recessions and the console "collapse" of 1982). Both the 360 and PS3 are starting to show their age at this point (especially the 360, which doesn't even have a blu-ray drive), with no new console generation on the horizon. The 360 is now 5 years old and the PS3 is 4, and neither has even announced a new console generation. I'm tired of my console dropping further and further behind PC's, while all MS and Sony want to do is release lame Wii knockoff controllers. I'm tired of consoles that aren't powerful enough to handle MMO's, require multiple disc swaps to support the latest games, and slow to a crawl with modern high res textures.
Screw Nintendo, and screw Move and Kinect. Give me a new console generation!
The only "new" thing in Console technology recently HAS been motion/video control.
- Wii came out with motion controllers.
- PS3 came out with video controllers.
- 360 came out with an updated video controller.
- PS3 came out with video augmented motion controller.
Sony has stated that they foresaw a 10 year lifespan for the PS3. We're now into year 4 and I don't see any indication the Console itself needs to be redesigned. Considering they are still selling PS2s, now in its 10th year, I'd say this is fairly likely.
Up until now, there have been huge leaps in Graphics technology that required a console to be updated every 5 or so years just to stay competitive with PC hardware. In the past 5 years, while I'm sure there is still a push for "bigger and better" I think we've reached a temporary rest point because the graphics are "Good Enough".
The PS3's CPU and GPU may be older, but game makers are finally starting to regularly turn out games that are able to take advantage of the system.
The hard-drive on the PS3 can be upgraded (and has been in new bundles).
The inclusion of a Blu-Ray drive works great for current and future content. I have yet to hear of one PS3 game that required multiple disc swaps.

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Re:I'm more worried about 360 and PS3 by Gizzmonic · 2010-11-19 04:23 · Score: 1

Be careful what you wish for.
The next MS console will not have a Blu-Ray drive. You don't honestly think Microsoft is going to pay its number one competitor for every unit shipped, do you? I doubt it will even have a disc drive at all. Say goodbye to bringing games to your friends' house and the second hand game market.
Honestly, it sounds like you would do better with a PC, what with all the modern high res MMO playing you do. Don't look for love in a coffin, and don't play games with no true ending on a console, I always say!

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Re:I'm more worried about 360 and PS3 by schlachter · 2010-11-19 05:25 · Score: 1

Really? My XBOX 360 is still more powerful than any computer I own...and probably more powerful than most computers that most people own...especially with the consumer shift towards laptops over desktops. Besides, what would I get in a next gen console that I don't have now? I'd rather have them spend their money on more a advanced online experience, more multimedia features, and better game design/interaction.

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Re:I'm more worried about 360 and PS3 by slyrat · 2010-11-19 06:31 · Score: 1

Because I hate PC controls, can't play a PC game on my couch, got sick of trying to figure out if I had the right video card/what settings I had to run at/if I needed to upgrade/paying for constant upgrades/etc. I like the ergonomic analog controller. I like the fact that I never have to worry about compatibility issues and upgrades only come along every five years.
sure you can, almost all hd tvs nowadays can be used like a monitor. Just get a usb (like a 360 controller) controller, plug it in and just choose the joystick controls for the game of choice.

And I like the simplicity and ease of Xbox Live.
I also like the fact that I can buy and sell my games used. I buy almost all of my games used (for a fraction of what I would have paid for them new). You can't do that with PC games anymore, thanks to Steam and authentication.
Right but Steam, and many other download game services, actually do sales. I just get my games from Steam when there is a sale and I can get most things from at most $30 and as little as $1. These are also new, and you have the same kind of friends network on steam that you get with the consoles. Admittedly you can't sell the games, but you also don't have to EVER swap discs. You also can just log into steam from any pc and get the games you own downloaded.
Re:I'm more worried about 360 and PS3 by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 07:15 · Score: 0

what disc swaps ?? Last time I ever had to swap a disc was in the ps2 ..
never on the wii ....
is there something on the xbox or ps3 ??
Re:I'm more worried about 360 and PS3 by mister_playboy · 2010-11-19 07:24 · Score: 1

The XBox 360 in particular is really testing the limits of what can reasonably be called a console, as it's more or less a standard computer with a custom OS.
That applied to the original Pentium III-powered Xbox, not the 360. The 360 has a triple-core PowerPC CPU unrelated to anything in consumer PCs.

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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law ::: Love is the law, love under will
Re:I'm more worried about 360 and PS3 by elrous0 · 2010-11-19 09:47 · Score: 1

is there something on the xbox or ps3 ??
Yes, there is.

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Re:I'm more worried about 360 and PS3 by tycoex · 2010-11-19 10:05 · Score: 0

FF13 is a 3 disk game on the 360.
Re:I'm more worried about 360 and PS3 by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 10:24 · Score: 0

I'm tired of my pc getting games that were purely written for consoles. Games which lack the ability to use the features of my video card, and despite my computer being significantly more powerful than any console coding issues cause input lag, jumpy video, and poor graphics.
Us PC people also wish a new gen console would come out.
Re:I'm more worried about 360 and PS3 by RocketRabbit · 2010-11-19 12:03 · Score: 1

"which doesn't even have a blu-ray drive"
You realize Microsoft was in the HD-DVD consortium, and that it was their pet format, don't you?
I would not expect the Xbox 720 to have a Blu-Ray drive either. For one, they would be shoveling money at Sony (a major member of the Blu-Ray consortium) and secondly, Blu-Ray isn't even really that popular. Over a hundred DVDs sell for every Blu-RAY.
People thought that SACD was going to kill CD, but they were dead wrong. DVD, like CD, is plenty good enough for the vast majority of consumers.
With the switch to demand-loaded content, I doubt if Blu-Ray has much of a future going forward anyway, despite any technical advantages it may have over lower bitrate streams.

So what? by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 02:41 · Score: 0

Is anyone honestly looking forward to a "wii 2"?
Unless they plan on ditching the annoying motion controls and make and static controller (or at least make it an option), I'm not interested.
I'm more excited for the 3DS myself, keeping my fingers crossed that the layton, wright crossover gets an English translation.

Doubt it by scubamage · 2010-11-19 02:50 · Score: 1

I honestly think that the Wii is just fine. Its targeted at casual gamers, whereas 360 seems to be the young gamer crowd and PS3 seems to be the more hardcore gamers. By giving the Wii time on the market they're just going to build up an immense game library. I do think Kinect may throw a wrench in nintendo's machine though. The kinect is the first peripheral I've ever seen that has made game-o-phobes interested in playing. My girlfriends mother for example, was given a wii. She got frustrated when she kept losing track of where the cursor was pointed in the main menu (relatively trivial for us tech folks, downright frustrating and off-putting for some others). So it sat there. However she's looking at getting a Kinect/360 bundle now because "I don't have to worry about figuring out how to use a stupid controller, I think I can figure out where my body is." It kind of opened my eyes a little about the potential Kinect has. I just hope it doesn't turn into another Sega-CD/32x sort of device. Anyways, tangent aside, I don't think Nintendo is going anywhere. They've survived all of their other competitors, even when they've had more powerful technology. They've got more wisdom than MS and Sony combined at running successful gaming platforms (unless you count Basic!).

Merge Kinect and Virtualboy by jlebrech · 2010-11-19 03:12 · Score: 1

And you would get this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX2smM87r14

Wii Wii? by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 03:24 · Score: 0

They really should call it the Wii^2 or Wii Wii.

Don't Forget About The 3DS by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 03:25 · Score: 1, Insightful

Nintendo successor to the DS, called the 3DS, is scheduled for release at the end of February in Japan at a price tag around $300. I would assume they would launch in the US and Europe in the following months. They would be stupid to try to put two devices (hand held and console) on the market around the same time. This is especially true when they will both cost $300+.

My guess is that they would not release their next console for a minimum of 2 years after the 3DS.

No need to rush by haggus71 · 2010-11-19 03:35 · Score: 2, Insightful

They aren't too excited about rushing a product to sale for a couple of reasons

The main reason is...they don't NEED to. The Wii is still the number one seller out there, and has universal appeal. The PS3 is the elite blue ray graphics console, and the 360 is the FPS console. Both have their niches. The Wii won't be in trouble because everyone, from 8 year olds to grandmas in assisted living centers, can and does play the Wii. Yeah, the "gamer" niche isn't there, but really, that market isn't that big in comparison. Plus, you still have to shell out $500-$600 for a DECENT 360 or PS3 with motion control, whereas you get a Wii for half the price, complete with access to all Nintendo's proprietary games.

The second reason also goes to the PS3 and, especially, the 360. When the PS3 came out, it was priced way out of reach, and manufacturing wasn't yet up to par with mass production for a good price. They lost money. The 360 was made by Microsoft. In other words, like their OS's, it was buggy as hell and had its own version of the BSoD(red ring, anyone?) The Wii? smooth release, no major issues, priced for volume, and fun for a broad audience. I guarantee that, when the Wii 2 or whatever it is called comes out, the same will be true.

Nintendo has been in this business for decades. They know what works, and they listen to what works, not a bunch of flamers looking for the next big shiny.

Re:No need to rush by Dwedit · 2010-11-19 04:20 · Score: 1

The Wii tends to freeze/overheat a lot after you boot it up when you have WiiConnect24 enabled. You must disable that feature to stop the freezes.
Re:No need to rush by ADRA · 2010-11-19 06:33 · Score: 0

A counter points to your argument:
"D to. The Wii is still the number one seller out there, and has universal appeal"
I like my Wii, but I seriously question your assumption that the Wii have universal appeal. The lack of any decent multimedia features, the very weak online features, the lack of high def and the utter under power that the games are able to accomplish means that there are a ton of people that haven't been happy with the Wii. As for the top sellers distinction, here are some other examples:
1. GM was the biggest automaker with an absolutely obsolete product line. Their future is currently looking very bad.
2. Nokia is currently the top selling phone provider and top selling smart phone provider internationally. Does anyone think this will be the case in the near future?
Basically what I'm trying to say is that if Nintendo tries to ride their success for too long, they'll inevitably face the same problems that said companies have or will shortly encounter. GM was the top seller for 77 years and even they can fall. Do you really think that Nintendo is immune to failure? I'd say that all said the Game Cube was an utter failure for the company, and the Wii was its recovery. Will the Wii2 be its rise into top gamer and developer mind share, or will it continue to sit back on its established franchises and rake in the safe cash like they've largely been doing this gen? (They have innovated, and the wii fit was at least popular and outside of their standard mold).

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Bye!
Re:No need to rush by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 09:14 · Score: 1

like my Wii, but I seriously question your assumption that the Wii have universal appeal. The lack of any decent multimedia features, the very weak online features, the lack of high def and the utter under power that the games are able to accomplish means that there are a ton of people that haven't been happy with the Wii.
Maybe you don't understand what the Wii is. The Wii is a game console. When someone says "universal appeal", they are referring to "universal appeal among people who want to play games."

GM was the biggest automaker with an absolutely obsolete product line. Their future is currently looking very bad.
Yeah, but as you can see, it is Nintendo which is the motion control leader, and the others are now trying to catch up. And do you really think Nintendo is sitting around twiddling thumbs and not thinking about its next move? Geez.

Nokia is currently the top selling phone provider and top selling smart phone provider internationally. Does anyone think this will be the case in the near future?
Nintendo was the underdog the previous two generations. Comparing them to Nokia like this is utterly insane.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that if Nintendo tries to ride their success for too long
If, if, if. They have very clearly stated that they will launch a new system when they need to, and when they have something new to offer. Not just prettier graphics.

GM was the top seller for 77 years and even they can fall.
But Nintendo was not the market leader until this generation. How lame are you going to make those comparisons of yours?

Do you really think that Nintendo is immune to failure?
Uh, N64? GameCube? Do you even have a clue about what the hell you are talking about?

I'd say that all said the Game Cube was an utter failure for the company, and the Wii was its recovery.
Uh, no. That's not what Nintendo are saying.

or will it continue to sit back on its established franchises and rake in the safe cash like they've largely been doing this gen?
Huh? This generation, Nintendo revolutionized gaming with their motion controller. You really need to stop spouting nonsense.

(They have innovated, and the wii fit was at least popular and outside of their standard mold).
What the hell are you talking about?

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Clever signature text goes here.

May I offer a rebuttal? by Gizzmonic · 2010-11-19 03:39 · Score: 1

So, no Wii 2 for 2010 or 2011 -- meanwhile, the PS3 and Xbox consoles get motion control support and other content enhancements. ...motion control add-ons that cost hundreds and don't support current games. Thus, they will get minimal support from users and developers. Remember, the most successful add-on of all time was the Sega CD, which only sold 500,000 units. Microsoft and Sony would probably be thrilled to get even half that in this economy.

While people have fun on the physical Wii games, PlayStation and Xbox owners are enjoying the option of HD playback, IP TV, music, video recording, social networking and even Foxtel.

Besides Netflix, the online video offerings available are a pretty bad deal. Hey Sony-do you seriously think I'm going to pay $7 to rent a $15 DVD? And the side effect of all these is that the interface becomes increasingly cluttered with ads for video. The Xbox 360 dashboard has more ads than the freaking mall, and they seriously detract from actually playing video. I myself have gone through constant frustration with Time Warner, ESPN, and MS all pointing fingers at each other instead of getting ESPN3.com to actually work on my 360.

Nintendo is an innovative company, but in the modern converged world of gaming and entertainment devices consumers will begin to demand more and more from their console.

Actually, the success of the Wii proves the exact opposite. Sony and MS poured billions into making stuff like Playstation Home that have met with collective yawns from their customers. More importantly, neither of the HD consoles seems to be able to last 2 years without overheating-so many of the sales from the PS3 and 360 are actually repeat buyers.

The only thing Nintendo really needs to do is make their console more online-friendly. Most people don't care about HD, but they would like to be able to play Animal Crossing with their friends without having to type in the Microsoft Office 2007 product key.

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Re:May I offer a rebuttal? by ryllharu · 2010-11-19 04:52 · Score: 1

...motion control add-ons that cost hundreds and don't support current games. Thus, they will get minimal support from users and developers. Remember, the most successful add-on of all time was the Sega CD, which only sold 500,000 units. Microsoft and Sony would probably be thrilled to get even half that in this economy.
Microsoft has announced that they have sold around 1 million Kinnects in the first 10 days. They're hoping for 5 million by the Christmas holiday.
I'd say they're doing alright on an install base so far.
Re:May I offer a rebuttal? by CronoCloud · 2010-11-19 05:18 · Score: 1

Remember, the most successful add-on of all time was the Sega CD, which only sold 500,000 units.
Wrong. That would be the PS2's Eyetoy, sold over 2 million units.
Re:May I offer a rebuttal? by Gizzmonic · 2010-11-19 05:38 · Score: 1

Oops. Really need to update my console add-on facts, don't I?

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(-1, Raw and Uncut is the only way to read)
Re:May I offer a rebuttal? by ZFox · 2010-11-19 11:12 · Score: 1

I wonder how many of the Wii Motion Pluses have been sold (I can't find anything recent from Google). Although, I'm not sure it can still be considered an add-on, since I just read that they have begun incorporating it into the WiiMotes.
Re:May I offer a rebuttal? by CronoCloud · 2010-11-20 04:46 · Score: 1

I think it could be put in the same category as the original PSone's Dual Shock, which was an add-on controller, that later become standard equipment, like the PS2's Network adapter, originally sold separately, then later on bundled with "fat" PS2's and then eventually incorporated into the slim's.

Re:What Wii, GBC, and PSP-3000 have in common by Abstrackt · 2010-11-19 03:40 · Score: 1

No, Microsoft and Sony beat Nintendo to the next-generation console while Nintendo released an updated GameCube. Wii is to GameCube as Game Boy Color is to Game Boy or PSP-3000 is to PSP-1000: much the same hardware with higher clock speed, more RAM, and some new I/O.

Exactly, Nintendo just stopped playing the next-gen game. Rather than trying to beat Sony and Microsoft by being better they decided to be different and work the casual gaming market. It seems like Microsoft and Sony are the ones playing catch-up with Nintendo with the Kinect and Move respectively.

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They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett

3ds by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 03:45 · Score: 3, Insightful

"Has the innovator been out-innovated due to a sluggish product roadmap?"

Umm, in case you didn't notice, the 3DS is Nintendo's next big innovation. The next Wii will follow after that. Nintendo doesn't just throw a bunch of shit against the wall and sees what sticks, like Sony does. They make a concentrated effort and focus.

Re:3ds by giantism_strikes · 2010-11-19 06:18 · Score: 1

This has been true recently, but not in the past. The Gamecube was a more powerful N64, the N64 was a more powerful SNES, and the SNES was a more powerful NES. If anything, they were the trend setters for the next console is just "more powerful".

I knew it. by MaWeiTao · 2010-11-19 03:46 · Score: 1

I anticipated this would happen from the start. Even back at the release of the Wii the limited power of the hardware and the standard definition graphics was a sore point. The novelty of the controllers, however generally beat back those concerns, at least initially. But then it also become apparent that while the Wiimote is great with some games with many others it hinders gameplay. And things were worse when cross-platform games where significantly scaled back for the Wii.

So I anticipated that Nintendo would follow a shorter lifespan for the Wii, replacing it with a more powerful version. This model is similar to what Nintendo has done with the DS, moving from the original to the DS Lite, then the DSi, and now there's the 3DS.

Of course, the irony here is a selling point for the Wii was it's lower cost. But it's looking like over the lifespan of an Xbox360 or PS3 you're faced with purchasing two different Nintendo consoles and possibly no backwards compatibility.

I would guess that Nintendo is wrestling with what the Wii 2 should be. Should it simply be a more powerful Wii or a completely revamped system, more powerful or more featured than Sony's and Microsoft's consoles. An upgraded Wii would mean quicker to market and a lower cost, but it would also only put them at parity with the competition. A few years later Sony and Microsoft will inevitably be announcing new consoles.

Of course, at this point what can they really offer beyond better graphics and maybe more precise motion control? I'm guessing the shift might be towards a more complete home entertaining/computing experience. An alternative to both something like Apple TV and a netbook.

Re:I knew it. by Chris+Burke · 2010-11-19 08:06 · Score: 1

I anticipated this would happen from the start.
You anticipated that Nintendo would eventually release another console? Wow, Nostradamus, do you have any lotto numbers for me?
So I anticipated that Nintendo would follow a shorter lifespan for the Wii, replacing it with a more powerful version.
Oh, in that case you're just wrong. In the earliest case that the "Wii 2" is released in 2011, which was denied but still certainly possible, that would be 5 years between it and the previous console. The same length of time between new Nintendo home consoles since the SNES, and a pretty standard lifespan across the industry.
So what you anticipated did not happen. The thing you thought would necessitate this happening ended up not mattering.
Of course, at this point what can they really offer beyond better graphics and maybe more precise motion control?
Of course. Forgive me if I don't put much stock in your prognostications.

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The enemies of Democracy are
Re:I knew it. by seebs · 2010-11-19 19:30 · Score: 1

I love it. You're taking their statement that they're not releasing a new console any time soon as proof that they're releasing a new console. That is, perhaps, the part of your post that made the most sense. You "anticipated" something that isn't happening. Heck, if they release a Wii 2 next year, that won't even be an unusually short life -- five full years is pretty common in the console industry. Nintendo's previous consoles tended to make it around five years before a new model came out.
But here's the thing. I don't care about the hypothetical "Wii 2". I didn't buy the Wii because it was "cheap". I bought it because it had the games I wanted to play the most, and it still has the games I'm most interested in, so I'm still happy with it. The theory that the Wiimote "hinders gameplay" is not something I've found to be true, but then, what do I know, all I do is actually play games. Your whole post reads as though you've never actually played games on a Wii.
That said, even if I went out and bought a hypothetical Wii 2 for $300 tomorrow, I'd still be $50 up compared to my PS3, which has played video games for all of about two hours of its life so far.
In short, you're wrong, and you're using the clear statement that you're wrong as evidence that you're right. This is... not clever.

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Re:I knew it. by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 09:09 · Score: 1

Even back at the release of the Wii the limited power of the hardware and the standard definition graphics was a sore point.
Yeah, it was such as sore point the Wii almost outsold both of its competitors combined!

So I anticipated that Nintendo would follow a shorter lifespan for the Wii, replacing it with a more powerful version.
You really don't get it, do you? People don't give a crap about power. They do give a crap about being entertained. Apparently the Wii is found to be more entertaining to more people than the other two.

Of course, at this point what can they really offer beyond better graphics and maybe more precise motion control?
What could they really offer beyond better graphics before they unveiled the Wii? Just because you lack imagination doesn't mean that the Nintendo execs do.
You are too caught up in fancy graphics and fast processors. That's not what makes a good game. You fail.

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Clever signature text goes here.

you're both right by MasaMuneCyrus · 2010-11-19 04:07 · Score: 1

A cheap and familiar Wii is both good for Nintendo and good for developers

A cheap Wii with a very similar-to-the-Gamecube development kit means profits for Nintendo in development and manufacturing, and it means cheap and fast development process for Wii developers. If developers have a console to experiment on (thanks to low cost), they try new things and make lots of Wii games. This not only makes Nintendo money from the games produced, but makes both Nintendo and the companies money from the increased audience due to the new and innovative games. It helps reinvigorate the gaming industry and takes Nintendo and the companies with it.

At least, so goes the theory behind the Wii. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, or something like that.

This was said/disproven before by fak3r · 2010-11-19 04:09 · Score: 1

"Today the Wii’s biggest drawback is its diminutive hardware specs and options. There’s no high-definition playback and no significant built-in storage," This is what they were saying at launch, and it never made a difference. I still don't care that I can't play blu-ray discs, I don't have any, but I can play all the old gamecube games that the kids still love, and the Wii just has too many killer games. People laughed when the new controllers were announced back when it was called Revolution and look what has happened. I'm not concerned at all, just wondering how they're going to change things next. (hell, I remember thinking the DS was a bizzare idea that wouldn't catch on)

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fak3r.com

Again? Really? by Posting=!Working · 2010-11-19 04:14 · Score: 1

This is the same exact article that's been coming out since well before the Wii was released. Underpowered systems are definitely doomed. Without an update they're screwed. The Wii has relegated to the scrap heap by articles like this for 4 years now, the author really, really wants graphic quality to be the main determinant of game console sales, and the article is another sad attempt to prove that personal belief but is contradicted by reality. Hardcore gamers might care a lot, but most people don't give a shit about HD. As long as it's fun, it could have the graphics quality of an Atari 2600. Graphics quality might be #1 on your list of requirements, but it's around #4 or #5 for most people.

Here's the sales from release to end of September, 2010
Wii - 75.9 million
360 - 44.6 million
PS3 - 41.6 million

Until it gets passed up in sales, or at least these figures get kinda close, these articles are completely pointless. It's not dead, it's not close to being dead, and although the 360 is now selling faster than the Wii, at current rates it would take over 100 years to surpass the Wii. The Wii has outsold the original NES, and it's still flying off the shelves, not as fast as it once did, but still a lot faster than the PS3, and, unlike Sony & MS, Nintendo makes a profit on each one.

As a side note, i would think 360 sales figures are a somewhat bullshit way to estimate the number of users, since many of those are out-of-warranty red ring of death repurchases, garnering 2 or 3 sales for just one customer.

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This sentence no verb.

Wii is good, what I'd like to see by ZERO1ZERO · 2010-11-19 04:20 · Score: 1

I've had a Wii since launch. I have over a hundred games, and I'd say there is around 20 that are triple A titles worth bying a Wii for.

For the next Wii I'd really like to see:

proper 1080p HD gfx - imagine how good SMG would look, for example, or SMBW in glorious 1080p. Sonic Unleashed has some impressive gfx engine as well. Even Gutiar hero looks better on 360 than Wii, and that's just stupid shapes moving on a screen.

Surround sound

More memory I'm running out of game save space.

A better multiplayer setup The friend code thing is retarded.

Facility to link up Wii locally for fullscreen LAN game action

Probably some other things I can't remember just now.

Ahh yes with HD then hopefully the power to use as a slick media playback device with nice remote would be a possibilty as well.

Re:Wii is good, what I'd like to see by ADRA · 2010-11-19 06:37 · Score: 1

All of those are good and valid complaints. I don't see Nintendo doing the HD media one though. To be frank, that has never been Nintendo's bag, and even though any PC and smart phone has more media playback features than the Wii, I wouldn't be surprised that Nintendo all but ignores the sector in their new generation. I hope I'm wrong of course, but oh well.

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Bye!

Who wants a Wii 2? by Kevin108 · 2010-11-19 05:15 · Score: 0, Troll

I'm still waiting for a good game for the original Wii.

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It's a perfect time for being wasted.
A perfect time to watch the stars.
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Re:Who wants a Wii 2? by ADRA · 2010-11-19 06:40 · Score: 1

http://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/all/wii?sort=desc
Apparently a lot of people disagree with you.

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Of course they will say that by sjonke · 2010-11-19 05:17 · Score: 1

Of course they will say it's not going to happen until 2012. Why would they want to jeopardize any sales they might otherwise get this year and early next? If they announce that Wii 2 is coming in 2011, then fewer people will buy Wii 1 this year and early next. And any case, if sales are way off for Nintendo this holiday, you can bet they will fast track the Wii 2.

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--- What?

Re:What Wii, GBC, and PSP-3000 have in common by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2010-11-19 05:28 · Score: 0, Offtopic

No, Microsoft and Sony beat Nintendo to the next-generation console while Nintendo released an updated GameCube. Wii is to GameCube as Game Boy Color is to Game Boy or PSP-3000 is to PSP-1000: much the same hardware with higher clock speed, more RAM, and some new I/O.

Try playing one.

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"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

some new I/O by tepples · 2010-11-19 06:16 · Score: 1

Nintendo released an updated GameCube. Wii is [...] much the same hardware with higher clock speed, more RAM, and some new I/O.

Try playing one.

I own a Wii. The graphics are slightly above those of the GameCube, as would be expected from some more RAM and 50% faster clock. The console itself is evolutionary; the only new hardware on the console itself consists of a built-in 512 MB NAND flash, a different AV connector supporting a more widely available component cable, a USB controller, and a Bluetooth receiver connected to the USB controller. I have read that the Bluetooth receiver and the remote were originally going to be a GameCube accessory, much like Kinect and PS Move, until Nintendo decided to turn it into part of a new console.

Re:some new I/O by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2010-11-19 06:25 · Score: 1

You're not getting my point. You're not evaluting the sum of its parts.

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"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Re:some new I/O by tepples · 2010-11-19 06:33 · Score: 1

What the Wii Remote added to the GameCube, what Kinect adds to the Xbox 360, and what Move adds to the PS3 are comparable. Nintendo just chose to realize the improved input before realizing the improved processing and graphics; Sony and Microsoft chose the opposite.
Re:some new I/O by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2010-11-19 06:37 · Score: 1

What the Wii Remote added to the GameCube, what Kinect adds to the Xbox 360...
Wrong. Nintendo made it part of the system. Kinect is an add-on. What Nintendo did was very different and everybody's been playing catch-up ever since. That's where the term 'revolutionary' comes in.

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"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Re:some new I/O by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2010-11-19 06:39 · Score: 1

My apologies, I hit 'submit' too fast. Here's the missing sentence:

Wrong. Nintendo made it part of the system. Kinect is an add-on. All of the Wii games natively use the controller. Kinect and Playstation Move require custom built games for a much smaller market of players.
Again, I apologize, that's what I get for trying to get posts out in-between file saves at work.

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"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)
Re:some new I/O by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 13:47 · Score: 1

Who gives a crap about graphics? Not most people, that's for sure. The Wii is revolutionary because of the controller.

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Re:some new I/O by tepples · 2010-11-23 05:06 · Score: 1

Who gives a crap about graphics?
Anybody who bought an Xbox 360 during its first year, when the original Xbox was still available.
Xbox 360 and PLAYSTATION 3 still have much more RAM than Wii, allowing more objects to be placed in a world at the same level of graphics, or allowing the objects in the world to have more detailed behavior at the same level of graphics. Wii has 88 MB (64 MB RAM and 24 MB VRAM); the other two have 512 MB (unified on 360; half and half on PS3).
Re:some new I/O by hkmwbz · 2010-11-30 08:54 · Score: 1

Who gives a crap about "more objects"? Not the mass-market, that's for sure. Keep masturbating to your amazing graphics, but the rest of the world still won't care.

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thanks for the link by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 06:52 · Score: 0

thanks for linking to your blog without mentioning that it is your blog.

jerk.

Re:thanks for the link by Pojut · 2010-11-19 07:50 · Score: 1

I fail to see how it matters. I linked to an article I wrote that was directly related to the discussion at hand. How is that any different than copying and pasting the 712 word opinion? I don't run a single advert on there, so it's not like I financially benefit from it...

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Wii console color by zooblethorpe · 2010-11-19 07:34 · Score: 1

Nintendo can milk this cow, the Wii teat, for a while longer.

So that's why it's white! I wondered.

Cheers,

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"A four-foot prune."

Re:Wii console color by KDR_11k · 2010-11-19 21:19 · Score: 1

Now it's red. That can't be a good sign.

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Re:What Wii, GBC, and PSP-3000 have in common by BenoitRen · 2010-11-19 08:39 · Score: 1

It's ridiculous that a game console manufacturer has to change their architecture and graphics card brand in order to be considered "next-gen" instead of just an upgrade.

Bundle by tepples · 2010-11-19 08:40 · Score: 1

Wrong.

Temper. Please consider Layne's Law of Debate: everything becomes about how to define a word.

Nintendo made it part of the system. Kinect is an add-on.

Then one can treat the Wii as a bundle of an OC'd GameCube and a Wii Remote, just as stores have already started to sell bundles of the Xbox 360 S and Kinect. By this time next year, I predict that this bundle and the PS3+EyeToy+Move bundle will be displayed prominently on shelves. But I'll grant you that Nintendo got the bundle out first.

Re:Bundle by MobileTatsu-NJG · 2010-11-19 10:26 · Score: 1

Then one can treat the Wii as a bundle of an OC'd GameCube and a Wii Remote...
Mm, no, they cannot. Again, sum of its parts. Bundles do not a native feature make.

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"I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

Japanese exec pay vs. avg. worker pay by zooblethorpe · 2010-11-19 09:02 · Score: 1

Iwata's and Miyamoto's compensation packages only look "tiny" when compared to the inflated insanity going on in the US.

I'm happy to grant that greed is part of the human condition, but it is worth pointing out that different cultures inculcate different balances of the basic human traits. Greed certainly happens in Japan, but not anywhere like on the scale seen in the US. Frankly, why would anyone really need $10 mil in annual pay? Such high remuneration actually seems obscene. One percent of that would be more than ample.

By way of international comparison, have a look at the PDF linked here. Relevant portion from page 6 quoted below. I can vouch for the indicated pay for the average full-time worker over the age of 25; I make just slightly more than this as a highly-trained professional with over a decade of experience, in a job paying roughly the industry average.

The CEO pay rate among American public companies is outrageous. They are receiving astronomical amounts of money compared to the average American worker. Meanwhile, the average full-time worker over the age of 25 struggles to get by on a mere $683 a week, an increase of less that one percent over the last year (Chattman 2005). Compared to the pay rate of an average CEO, the average full-time worker would have to work in the upwards of 385 years to make what a CEO receives in one year. During the 1980s the pay gap between CEO and ordinary factory workers grew from 42 times to almost 85 times (Byrne 1991). In 2004 CEOs in the United States made over 475 times as much as the average worker. Compared to the pay ratio between US CEOs and US average workers, other countries ratios between the two are significantly lower, as indicated in the chart below.

Country ----- Ratio of CEO pay to ------------- average worker pay Japan ------------ 11:1 Germany ---------- 12:1 France ----------- 15:1 Italy ------------ 20:1 Canada ----------- 20:1 South Africa ----- 21:1 Britain ---------- 22:1 Hong Kong -------- 41:1 Mexico ----------- 47:1 Venezuela -------- 50:1 United States --- 475:1

I leave it as an exercise for the reader to as to whether the US's exorbitant executive pay multiple might act as a drain on the economy.

Cheers,

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"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."

Re:Japanese exec pay vs. avg. worker pay by siDDis · 2010-11-19 11:57 · Score: 1

I would really like to see the norwegian numbers. My guess it is as low as 3:1

Re:What Wii, GBC, and PSP-3000 have in common by tepples · 2010-11-19 09:10 · Score: 1

It's ridiculous that a game console manufacturer has to change their architecture and graphics card brand in order to be considered "next-gen" instead of just an upgrade.

As I understand it, the change in architecture arises once the game console manufacturer and its licensed developers have discovered a serious bottleneck in the existing architecture. For example, the N64 had serious bottlenecks that the GameCube resolved. If the new console could push four times as many polygons, far more complex shaders, and far bigger worlds, all using a faster-clocked version of the same architecture, that'd be an upgrade. But the changes from Game Boy to Game Boy Color and from GameCube to Wii are far more modest: some more RAM and a CPU that's 1.5 to 2 times as fast.

Re:What Wii, GBC, and PSP-3000 have in common by BenoitRen · 2010-11-19 09:25 · Score: 1

There's more to the Wii than just a CPU upgrade and more RAM. The video chipset has been greatly improved. The motherboard is entirely new. etc.

That doesn't mean it's not an upgrade, but to pass it off as insignificant or just an overclocked GameCube is ignorant.

Wow, will not hold my breath by Anonymous Coward · 2010-11-19 11:06 · Score: 0

Given Nintendo's recent innovation strategy, Wii 2 will be a different color, slightly different size, and will probably have an HDMI port so it can claim its a 21st century game console finally and will have slightly revamped user interface and not much else. It will require you to re-purchase all accessories for it, and will most likely will not let you transfer Wii-Ware for VC games to it because they will probably screw up emulation support or forget that 60+ million people with the original Wii's actually matter to them. But it will sell like a sunnavabitch because Nintendo targets the demographic of citizens that don't think, just spend money, aka parents with whiny children.

Re:Wow, will not hold my breath by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 09:04 · Score: 1

Given Nintendo's recent innovation strategy, Wii 2 will be a different color, slightly different size, and will probably have an HDMI port so it can claim its a 21st century game console finally and will have slightly revamped user interface and not much else.
It seems that you forgot to mention the revolutionary controller. There's more to a console than HD graphics, you know.

But it will sell like a sunnavabitch because Nintendo targets the demographic of citizens that don't think, just spend money, aka parents with whiny children.
I think you will find that children are only a tiny part of Nintendo's customer base. The Wii is being enjoyed by mostly adults (25+).

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TEVs by tepples · 2010-11-19 11:26 · Score: 1

The video chipset has been greatly improved.

I stand corrected. Hollywood has more TEVs than Flipper. Are there any other video improvements that you can talk about?

The motherboard is entirely new.

As was the motherboard in the NES-101.

Re:TEVs by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 13:43 · Score: 1

Video improvements? The controller alone made the Wii next-gen.

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Re:TEVs by tepples · 2010-11-23 05:01 · Score: 1

I was operating under an assumption of distinguishing the generation of the hardware inside the console from the generation of the controller bundled with the console. If the controller alone makes a console next-gen, then Xbox 360 with Kinect is a generation ahead of the Wii and two generations ahead of the original Xbox.
Re:TEVs by hkmwbz · 2010-11-30 08:53 · Score: 1

No, Kinect is just an add-on for the 360. If they had released a new console with Kinect as the control method, we might be talking. But Kinect is already a failure, so...

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I can't bring myself to care... by seebs · 2010-11-19 19:22 · Score: 1

I still have a Wii. Got it launch day. Still love it. Still buying new games for it.

My PS3 has been collecting dust for over a year. I've never gotten a 360.

Nintendo got it right the first time. I am not buying hardware, I'm buying games. Hardware is something I put up with so I can play games. I don't need a higher resolution display, or a faster CPU, to play games. I just need people who are willing to put in the time and effort to develop an interesting game to play.

In short, I don't think the lack of a "Wii 2" is hurting them. The motion sensing afterthoughts tacked onto the PS3 and 360 are unlikely to ever come anywhere close to the market penetration the Wii has, so who cares? When Sony and MS release new consoles that come with motion sensing out of the box, built to work with it from day 1, then they'll have real, credible, direct competition. But even then, as long as they view "casual" games as something you put second-string developers on so you can focus on making the best shooters, they're still not getting it.

Sure, some day Nintendo will release a new console, but I'm not expecting them to hurry it up. 5 years is not a very long time for a console life cycle, historically, and it's a pretty short time for a console that's doing well. Come on, think this through. The PS2 released at $300, and got multiple price cuts during its lifetime. The Wii released at $250, and has gotten... one. I doubt the Wii will go away before getting down to $100, which I'd guess would take a couple more years.

Basically, there's no need. The Wii isn't trying to compete on graphics quality to begin with, so who cares if its graphics aren't as impressive as the PS3's? Not the people buying the Wii to play video games, that's for sure.

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DSi3D? by ghostlibrary · 2010-11-20 03:16 · Score: 1

Nintendo is releasing the DSi 3D next year, and people say they aren't innovating? I think they're smart. A new console, a new gameboy, a new console, a new gameboy. So we're always buying a new Nintendo thing but we don't feel overtapped, or like we have to choose between which to get.

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Re:What Wii, GBC, and PSP-3000 have in common by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 09:02 · Score: 1

So "next-generation" means "prettier graphics"? Heh. As you can see from Microsoft and Sony's new products, it was the Wii that was one generation ahead of the other ones. The two other consoles went all out with amazing graphics. Nintendo realized that that was a dead, end and moved one generation ahead.

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Re:It isn't just innovation but value for money to by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 09:26 · Score: 1

The Motion Plus is being built into the standard Wii Remote, and the old Wii Remote is being taken off the market. The new Wii Remote Plus will be the same price as a Wii Remote is today, IIRC.

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Console generation vs. controller generation by tepples · 2010-11-22 10:15 · Score: 1

So "next-generation" means "prettier graphics"?

As for the console, it does. Wii was essentially a current-gen console with a next-gen controller; 360 and PS3 were next-gen consoles with current-gen controllers. Kinect and Move add the next-gen controller, but Nintendo has announced no plans to make the next-gen console.

Re:Console generation vs. controller generation by hkmwbz · 2010-11-22 13:37 · Score: 1

As for the console, it does.
Except it doesn't.

Wii was essentially a current-gen console with a next-gen controller;
Except, of course, they completely redesigned it to make it smaller, and use only 30% the amount of power the GameCube used. New technology is not only about prettier graphics and more polygons. It is also about optimizing things.

360 and PS3 were next-gen consoles with current-gen controllers. Kinect and Move add the next-gen controller, but Nintendo has announced no plans to make the next-gen console.
In the end it's the games that matter. I predict that both Move and Kinect will fail. Sony and MS just don't get it.

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The slim PS2 by tepples · 2010-11-23 05:02 · Score: 1

Except, of course, they completely redesigned it to make it smaller, and use only 30% the amount of power the GameCube used.

The slim PS2 wasn't considered next-gen when it came out. Nor was the Game Boy Pocket compared to the original Game Boy or the DS Lite compared to the original DS.

Re:The slim PS2 by hkmwbz · 2010-11-30 08:52 · Score: 1

The slim PS2 was not next-gen. Wii is. In case you didn't notice, it had a completely new controller.

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Re:The slim PS2 by tepples · 2010-11-30 10:37 · Score: 1

In case you didn't notice, [the slim PS2] had a completely new controller.
EyeToy?
</completely-missing-the-point>

Go to hell. Bullet hell, that is. by tepples · 2010-11-30 10:41 · Score: 1

Who gives a crap about "more objects"?

Anyone who has compared Touhou Project shmups (where even the bullets shoot bullets) to NES-era shmups.

Xbox 360 + Kinect bundle by tepples · 2010-11-30 10:47 · Score: 1

Kinect is just an add-on for the 360. If they had released a new console with Kinect as the control method, we might be talking.

Does the Xbox 360 S + Kinect sensor bundle count as "a new console"? True, it can also play games with traditional controls, just as Wii can play GameCube games and those Wii games that support GameCube controllers (e.g. Brawl, Mario Kart).

But Kinect is already a failure

Google News kinect failure doesn't turn up much. Can you cite further sources?

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Wii 2 Unlikely For 2011, Maybe In 2012

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