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DHS Seizes 75+ Domain Names
Many readers have sent in an update to yesterday's story about the Department of Homeland Security's seizure of torrent-finder.com, a domain they believe to be involved in online piracy. As it turns out, this was just one of dozens of websites that were targeted by Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
"In announcing that operation, John T. Morton, the assistant secretary of ICE, and representatives of the Motion Picture Association of America called it a long-term effort against online piracy, and said that suspected criminals would be pursued anywhere in the world. 'American business is under assault from counterfeiters and pirates every day, seven days a week,' Mr. Morton said. 'Criminals are stealing American ideas and products and distributing them over the Internet.'"
The TorrentFreak article we discussed yesterday has been updated with a list of the blocked sites.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
"Where the people fear the government you have tyranny. Where the government fears the people you have liberty."
“the few practice lawful plunder upon the many, a common practice where the right to participate in the making of law is limited to a few persons.”
Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk. We are seeing are the final nails in the Constitution's coffin. Their is no Constitutional justification for the seizing of these sites. It violates the core of the agreements made between the people and the Government. I really wish we could return to being a republic, where each state minds its own business but keep the Federal Government operating within the bounds of the Constitution. The people in Texas can have anarchy or whatever and the people in Massachussetes can have their pristine Government institutions. Those unhappy with their state are Constitutionally guaranteed the right to move.
I bet dollars to doughnuts that when net neutrality passes, buried deep in the legislation's text will be stronger measures than what we're seeing today.
I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.
and GIVING them to china
Seriously, kids downloading music poses what threat, exactly, to national security?
One more piece of evidence that our government is just a puppet of deep-pocketed corporations and special interest groups.
I'm starting to think N. Korea is spot on...
Idiot. It doesn't matter which party runs the White House. This is about money. Money always rules.
I'm not from the Americas, but I thought the DHT only dealt with national security issues, terrorist threats, natural disasters, and other high priority issues that affected the country. I'm not quite seeing torrent-finder.com as that, a torrent site I haven't even visited despite being a pirate. Is this honestly the same organization behind providing supplies to Katrina victims, as protecting private businesses against business models in crisis?
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
Copyright Infringement.
It's like Communism, only newer.
The 5th Amendment says that "no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law". Due process means that one must be found guilty in a court of law by a jury of their peers.
And since when did the mission of DHS become copyright enforcement? And where did they get the unilateral authority to act as judge, jury, and executioner?
Last time I checked, "copyprivilege" infringement required a civil suit by the person who held the privilege to begin with? Were these domain holders sued? Were they found guilty (liable) by a court of law?
Is the US government out of control and operating outside the bounds of the Constitution?
Libertas in infinitum
Now do you people understand the opposition to net neutrality? The government would "regulate" torrent traffic and other things that high-paying lobbyists didn't like.
So, are there any alternative DNS servers that I can user that will still point to the non-seized addresses?
Is the US government out of control and operating outside the bounds of the Constitution?
Thankfully, our President was formerly a professor who lectured on Constitutional law. I'm sure he's going to sort this one out for us ASAP.
At least we can put to bed the suggestion that yeseterday's story was a hoax.
Next can we please retrieve ICANN from US control and cut off the US DNS masters? I think it's pretty clear they can't be trusted to run the internet :(
The government just keeps overstepping it's boundaries. It seems to have moved into it's awkward teenage years where it thinks it can do whatever it wants. It's about time we take away it's checkbook. That's what most parents do when their teenager is acting like a punk.
If you made it to the 2nd paragraph of the NYT article, you would know the sites were taken down with a warrant issued by a United States District Court. I would assume these sites were investigated and found to be distributing faked goods and infringing copyrights. Hardly No due process.
Although I admit, it is disconcerting the DHS is behind this.
Not to defend what they are doing as I don't like it either... but from TFA it seems they did have a court order to seize these domains. The question is, how those court orders were arrived at.
The torrent site seemed the most troubling as you can't really see how an order can be issued against what they were doing. The majority of the sites seemed to be selling counterfeit material like clothes and handbags; still iffy but you could see where possibly customs could have a hand in shutting down transfer of illegal goods.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Trickle down economics... the rich just move to another country.
Didn't you hear?
Every time someone downloads an illegal song, Osama Bin Laden is sent a nickel.
Libertas in infinitum
Whatever you think of copyright, and of torrent-assistance sites, it seems that much of what was caught in this sting are sites that sell knockoffs - dealing with that and other clear trademark issues I don't have quite as much of a problem with.
Were the seizure warrants mentioned in TFA's image actually issued and reasonably sensical? Could have a "bureaucrats who don't understand technology" issue w/r/t the technicalities.
And let's face it, such sites seem to be aiding and abetting distribution even if they're not doing the actual distribution.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Be careful, you're on the edge of invoking Godwin's law. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I'd hate for a perfectly good statement to be nullified from simple misphrasing.
Seizes property: check
Person: check
Thought: as expressed through action, speech, writing, or art... check.
We're not so far from sliding into an Orwellian nightmare.
or...
Big Brother is watching you. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
I believe it's in section 506 that criminal infringement is outlined. There is no civil suit requirement, and as in any criminal investigation, the government can seize evidence and the means used to commit the crime. In this case, it looks like the only one of the sites seized that may be problematic is torrent-finder.com.
-- $G
Wow......and to think, these jackasses run this country. How pathetic. I'm starting to see why the rest of the civilized world thinks little of this place. People who produce shit are wanting laws to protect said shit which ensures they get paid for said shit. What happened to the costumer is always right? If what you serve me is below my standards what makes you think Im gonna pay you for it. These places that are "bootlegging" are 3rd world countries. They have shit for capitol and can't afford "american" prices. Supply and demand becomes the absolute law when concerning capitalism. If I want something I now have many places to look. I don't have to go to a store anymore, I can order from Amazon, eBay, or any other online retailer. But that is not enough for more discerning people who want to test drive before they spend their hard earned cash. Industry people are no longer needed, the days of the street markets are slowly coming back, and individuals...not companies..are making a few dollars to off set the ever increasing prices of standard living. Maybe if the pay wages were increased to compensate people would be more than happy to throw their money away on useless rehashed shit. But thanks to the laws of the stock market the companies will continue to suck the life's blood out of everything that can be sold with no concern to the damage they are doing to the little guy.
I was concerned for my personal safety (and the safety of the public at large) when I found out that people were hearing songs and seeing movies without a proper license to do so.
Who knows what could have happened had these sites not been taken down. A dirty nuclear bomb? Another 9/11? There's no telling what these "music and film watchers" might have unleashed. Thank you, The Government!
Is the US government out of control and operating outside the bounds of the Constitution?
No. This is done under Customs and Immigration, which is one of the legitimate jobs of the government, except in this case the products being illegally exported are digital.
Due process means that one must be found guilty in a court of law by a jury of their peers.
Cops do not need a jury trial before they can seize stolen goods. They seized the illegal goods just like they might seize illegal physical goods and shut down the shop selling them with only a warrant while a trial is pending. If you bothered to read any of the linked articles you would find that they had a warrant from a District Court judge.
Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
Not to wear tinfoil but it sounds like a Law Enforcement dry run for bigger operations. .gov is "testing" to see how their methods are going to work in real life, if things will stick, how the public reaction to be.
When the horse bolts out of the barn, you better have to grab a pre-tested lasso before data gets to far out.
No one will admit how much data leakage happened since the late 90s with p2p flooding data out of .gov, R&D, and medical offices in the West.
You don't think the intel community never caught on? Lives and reputations are continuing to be be jeopardized with wikileaks... you think people are lying around for it to just happen to them?
Likely a lull as they regroup see how to improve things, then another round.
Politicians & Bureaucrats are not techies, but they tend to hire really smart companies and individuals for consulting and executing their work.
Similar methods which today were used to down some .mp3 or girlie picture site will be in the future be used to down leaked data out of Gov, IBM, Apple, Boeing, Dow Chemical, ....
As for US constitution, we have met the enemy and they is us. Peer Jury? I don't trust to be driving on the road with most of the people around me let alone have 12 decide my fate.
When certain crap is impelled through the fan certain plans are going to be set into motion. They were approved already by people voted upon and installed into power by peaceful means, and will "reflexively" activate. .gov goes out of control it is because of the citizens of the US, past and present actions, not because of anyone's future action.
If the US
Why was I groped at the airport? Someone who was elected or appointed by someone elected perceived a credible threat of real person(s) who can't be identified and "found." instituted a response to that. Whoever that person who wants other people to be hurt or die for whatever reason; will use whatever means and opportunity they have to do it. That is a situation of intractable security.
From a classical point of view; its means, motive and opportunity. US citizens can only react to means , increase/reduce opportunity and fuel or dowse the motivation for any kind of activity criminal or otherwise.
When was the last time anyone asked "why somebody needs a new 32-64GB for their videos, pics & songs?".. that's a whole lot of cash on top of the equipment -- I'm sure they could produce each cassette, cd, dvd or print magazine and the receipts proving they bought license it and they didn't DL it off somewhere for free.
We have met the enemy and they is us - greed, apathy, indifference, do it as long as nobody's hurt or if the "Big X" gets hurt even better. Enough of this kills a Constitutional democracy (big C little d)
this will probably be modded down, but I do find it unbelievable that in the U.S. there are org's (Sea Org's ?) that are so powerful that both domestic and foreign policy (ACTA, ITO etc) are held-up as examples of "good practise" to the extent that what they want becomes law.
Where's Alan Shore when you need him?
Todd: I hope it proves as delicious as the farmers that grew them
John Gilmore's quote was always an oversimplification. The net itself doesn't do anything but move packets. The people that use the net are the ones that find ways over, under, and around censorship. And this is censorship. We can argue about whether or not it's justified (and in the case of websites selling Chanel knockoffs as the real thing, it might be) but the fact the ICE and DHS have exerted control over ICANN is not good.
I'm a US citizen, born and raised here. The prospect of my government having the power to control the web scares me shitless. It's time to start working on a decentralized, cryptographically sound successor to DNS. It's also time to get serious about IPv6 and IPSec (encryption at the network layer) as a way to foil deep packet inspection.
What does this button d$#%* NO CARRIER
Proof that our government's priorities are screwed. They'll do this but ignore H1-B visa corruption and the fact that US businesses will fire US workers because they can hire Chinese workers at a 3-1 rate and not have to deal with taxes and benefits.
Seriously, I give up.
Exactly. We in the other half spent 8 years saying the same about Bush. It's like the whole thing is rigged to flip-flop every 8-12 years, just enough to keep each side in fighting spirits and everyone distracted away from that top 1-2%.
This one was pretty classy. Nothing says "due process" like denying a mental patient access to care, and then deporting him to a country whose language he doesn't even speak, and from which he isn't even descended, despite having evidence that he is a US citizen(and thus not even under ICE jurisdiction)...
This article is rather more general. Cool thing is, immigration violations/deportations are considered to be civil, rather than criminal matters, despite the fact that people involved in them are generally detained in jail-esque conditions. No public defender for you, sucker. And proving your citizenship is a total cakewalk under those conditions...
Googling turns up a variety of similar stories. Perhaps the snappiest is the one that begins with the money quote from one 'James Pendergraph, then executive director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement's Office of State and Local Coordination': "If you don't have enough evidence to charge someone criminally but you think he's illegal, we can make him disappear.".
Obviously, if only by sheer statistical probability, ICE does manage to deport a fair number of authentic illegal immigrants every year; but they are about as callous and sloppy about it as you'd expect a bunch of jackboots with broad power and limited oversight to be.
Wasting tax payers money protecting music and movie industry instead of all the middle class workers who want file sharing who make up majority of voters! People will fight back on this one, can't arrest every person in north america, and in the process they'll further worsen the american dollar, especially when they are forcing file sharers to secure domains and servers out of country. In grand scheme of things, movie and music industry will have to learn how to make money off banners and online marketing like rest of us, best thing we can do is run them out of money, and cut their abuse of government funding, with no money for lawyers , and hitting them where it counts, we can aspire to true freedom.
What I want to know is if the applicable websites are of AMERICAN registrars and/or AMERICAN servers. As if they hijacked non-american DNS. Then the USA must be removed from all authority in DNS. We have allowed them this position because they were of the position they wouldnt enforce their morality on the world.
'American business is under assault from counterfeiters and pirates every day, seven days a week,'
Somebody call the waaaaaaaambulance!
"In announcing that operation, John T. Morton, the assistant secretary of ICE, and representatives of the Motion Picture Association of America called it a long-term effort against online piracy, and said that suspected criminals would be pursued anywhere in the world
Here, they are in , China, Russia. Now fuck off and go prosecute them after you talked so high and mighty. i would like to see you do it.
Read radical news here
I find it hard to say that a one sided argument to a judge of DHS's choosing is due process.
The Supreme Court has already decided that prejudgment seizures of property are unconstitutional if not accompanied by notice and a hearing on the merits. See: Fuentes v. Shevin I don't see why this wouldn't apply to domain names as well. Wonder how long it will be before this statute gets challenged.
knock down 1, 10 sprout up, knock down 10, 100 sprout up
intellectual property+internet=no more intellectual property. some people just need to learn the hard way. keep whacking the moles, government friends!
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
It didn't matter, but it might in the future. The Tea Party is the last hope for a government that actually stays in its Constitutional box. I don't care what you think about particular people involved with it, just get out there and support less government.
Bullshit. I know quite a few Tea Partiers and they will take away every last right I have as soon as they get the chance. These are people who only make a stink when the party they don't like is in power, doing the EXACT SAME THINGS that the party they do like was doing before. How many Tea Partiers do you know who said anything at all about the Bush admin's declaration that Americans only have freedom of speech within "Free Speech Zones"? It's not about liking or disliking the people involved in it, it's about recognizing that the Tea Party Movement ITSELF is a movement of hypocrisy and cynicism that claims to be about less government but really works towards more government by the proper group of mostly old white men (with the occasional token minority or female) who put large corporations first and everyday citizens second. If you participate in the Tea Party believing otherwise, you're a sucker and a patsy.
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
It's a matter of intent, something the law can and does take into consideration. Google et al. are shielded by the Betamax decision, because they're not promoting illegal uses. Incidental illegal uses (even if they constitute the majority of actual use) are not a problem, legally, but, as the Grokster case established, once you begin promoting the illegal uses, you've crossed the line.
I have no idea whether Torrent-finder did promote illegal uses, but that's the question this is likely to hinge on.
Where is there any connection between the Shia Iranian government, and the sternly (as in "we hate the Shia") sunni terrorists of Al-Qaeda? "Is this another of those "WMDs in Iraq" things you people pull to justify the failed attempts at neo-colonialism?
The 5th Amendment says that "no person shall be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law". Due process means that one must be found guilty in a court of law by a jury of their peers.
When there's a criminal proceeding, items which are evidence in the proceeding have always been subject to seizure prior to trial. The 5th Amendment has never affected that. Also, items being used in an ongoing criminal act are subject to seizure. It's no different from the cops finding a robber in the act and seizing his gun, or catching a drug-runner and seizing the car with a secret compartment hollowed out in the seat that he was using to hide his cargo.
Last time I checked, "copyprivilege" infringement required a civil suit by the person who held the privilege to begin with? Were these domain holders sued? Were they found guilty (liable) by a court of law?
There are both civil and criminal statutes for copyright infringement. Criminal sanctions basically apply to large-scale commercial infringement operations. I'm guessing if DHS is involved then the operators of the sites are now awaiting criminal prosecution.
Is the US government out of control and operating outside the bounds of the Constitution?
Out of control? Maybe. Operating outside the bounds of the Constitution? Definitely not. As I said before, the 5th Amendment doesn't protect property directly used in the commission of a crime, and large-scale commercial infringement is a criminal matter. Also, the Copyright Clause of the US Constitution doesn't say anywhere that enforcement has to be through civil suit brought by the copyright owner. It merely says that Congress can award the exclusive rights in order to advance "Progress in Science and Useful Arts" and that these rights can only be given "for limited Times". Come to think of it, they are outside the bounds of the Constitution on that point: copyright duration has now become basically unlimited. But that's a different story for a different thread.
"I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_DNS_root
Read radical news here
I'm starting to think N. Korea is spot on..
Uh-oh, it must be true then.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Le silence est d'accord...
John T. Morton:
'Criminals are stealing American ideas
Thomas Jefferson:
If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea
How disgusting. How far the USA has fallen.
The mechanism to accomplish what you state is called an injunction. If party A is doing something that harms party B and the cessation of the activity cannot wait until trial, party B asks a judge to issue a temporary injunction. A and B show up in court, and if the judge believes B, he orders A to stop under penalty of contempt of court.
That's how due process is supposed to work. Note that both parties have their say. What the DHS did is not due process.
How are these people not bonafide official U.S. citizens? Because they happen to be Hispanic?
The guy in the first article is from Puerto Rico. Citizens of Puerto Rico are, in fact, U.S. citizens and they are free to migrate anywhere to any of the 50 states, as any other American citizen would. The second guy was born in the U.S., the son of a decorated Vietnam War veteran (that's why he and his aunt had to locate his own and his father's birth certificates.)
My blog
Changing a DNS entry does not deprive anyone of "life, liberty or property".
You're mistaken on the purpose of the Constitution. It isn't there to provide life liberty and prosperity. It is there to limit the federal government to a specific set of powers. This is the federal government overstepping by a pretty broad margin the scope of powers defined in the constitution by exploiting either of the two loopholes: the general welfare clause or the interstate commerce clause.
Trying to argue that this falls under national defence wouldn't hold water either.
Mind the frickin' laser...
The part I don't get is "Homeland Security".
WTH are they doing messing with copyright issues? This has nothing to do with "Immigration and Customs" either.
Homeland Security should be protecting us from all these supposed "DANGER DANGER DANGER!" things that are out there that we are so scared of we are supposed to be letting the pervs at the TSA play with our junk and feel up our kids for.
Homeless and starving families right here on our own soil, health care is a mess, bridges are falling apart, all of our "national defense" is half-way across the world, we are borrowing all our operating money from Asia...but hey, who cares, someone is downloading last week's episode of "Bones" they missed - send out Homeland Security!
What a joke.