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USCG Sues Copyright Defense Lawyer

ESRB writes "The US Copyright Group has sued Graham Syfert, an attorney who created a packet of self-representation paperwork for individuals sued for P2P sharing of certain movies and moved to have sanctions placed against the defense attorney. Syfert sells these packets for $20, and the USCG claims the 19 individuals who have used it have cost them over $5000."

360 comments

  1. Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    So... they think defending yourself is against the law now, or something? Or informing other people on how to defend themselves?

    1. Re:Wait... by Elledan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, because it threatens their business model of threatening to sue people even if they have no intention to ever do so. All the USCG wants is for the people it sends a threatening letter to pay up $2,500. Negotiating a settlement or heavens forbid an actual court case would drive up their lawyer costs and make their business model unprofitable. Hence them trying to take out this 'threat'. Of course, they're trying to take on a real attorney, not some Joe Shmuck without a clue about legal proceedings.

      *settles back with some popcorn*

      --
      Site & blog: http://www.mayaposch.com
    2. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      When the law is outlawed, only the criminals will know the law.

      Wait, what?

    3. Re:Wait... by causality · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So... they think defending yourself is against the law now, or something? Or informing other people on how to defend themselves?

      That's right. This is a religious battle. Therefore, it's not a matter of conflicting interests or disagreement or dispute. Nope, it transcends all of that. Clearly anything that interferes with their sacred agenda is EVIL! It is their holy crusade, and probably the only purpose in their sad little lives.

      Just a drop in a big, heavy, overflowing bucket of reasons why I refuse to purchase RIAA/MPAA entertainment. I'd consider it, if it didn't go to fund pathological bullshit like this. And if all current management were rendered jobless and penniless and all draconian copyright laws repealed, with the addition of penalties for the lobbies and politicians who pushed for them. Since that's not likely to happen due to this aversion towards justice that's currently all the rage, my purchasing decisions are rendered easier.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    4. Re:Wait... by pecosdave · · Score: 1

      I wish I had mod points for this one.

      --
      The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
    5. Re:Wait... by Posting=!Working · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Stupid new mod system. I tried to mod insightful, but missed and hit redundant. Post to undo.

      --
      This sentence no verb.
    6. Re:Wait... by onepoint · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You point out the truthfulness of the situation. Let's look at the business model.
      A) we have a LAWYER that has some courage and wants to defend people at a reasonable rate with a self help package provided in a PDF which is down-loadable.
      a1) it targets a very specific business model ( USCG bulk lawsuits )
      a2) the amount of USCG lawsuits is X
      a3) he should be able to convert 3% to 8% of the lawsuits after some reasonable testing.
      a4) so the amount of work he put into it might have been 60 hours ( 60 * $125 ) = nill, he was having a beer every time and relaxing doing it.

      the best thing that ever happened is that he got sued by these people, now everyone knows about him.

      --
      if you see me, smile and say hello.
    7. Re:Wait... by GameMaster · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nah, I don't think they're anywhere near that emotionally invested. Remember, we're talking about the lawyers here, not the RIAA/MPAA themselves. For the lawyers, all they're probably interested in is the money. They're not pissed off because it gets in the way of their "holy crusade" because, the truth is, they'll probably still win most of these cases in the end. What they're so pissed off about is that he threw a wrench in their get rich quick scheme. Instead of being able to bully people into paying $2500 a pop with very little bill-able lawyer time, now they'll have to file their claims in a huge number of different courts across the country and will, likely, have to actually fight some of the cases. With all that interference, they might not be able to make the huge profit they were drooling over initially.

      --

      Rules of Conduct:
      #1 - The DM is always right.
      #2 - If the DM is wrong, see rule #1
    8. Re:Wait... by boarder8925 · · Score: 1

      So, basically how things have worked in the U.S. for at least the last fifty years?

    9. Re:Wait... by postbigbang · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The free advertising is great. That good old web.

      Sadly, the litigation from USCG is going to cost him, so that $20/copy will hopefully cover his own costs, but I doubt it. USCG has every reason to press him as hard as they can, although I would hope that a decent judge would throw out the suit with prejudice. Sadly, that's unlikely to happen.

      The free advertising exacerbates the problem as each of the other USCG litigants now has a $20 defense package available to them. Would USCG find an insane jury (possible, if it gets to trial) and some theory of law that multiplies the damages, then our courageous lawyer gets a multiplier to the damages for each $20 defense package sold.

      The whole thing is fucking insane.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    10. Re:Wait... by Myopic · · Score: 1

      Okay. I read the fucking article, but I still don't understand what this guy got sued for. Like, what are the claims against him? (Why wouldn't the article say?) Does anyone know?

    11. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Sounds like two sharks fighting over every little minnow.

    12. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol at interesting modifier.

    13. Re:Wait... by Culture20 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Tortuous interference of fishing blackmail expeditions? That's vigilantism!

    14. Re:Wait... by noidentity · · Score: 1

      Just a drop in a big, heavy, overflowing bucket of reasons why I refuse to purchase RIAA/MPAA entertainment.

      Besides, why pay when they perform entertaining foot-shooting acts like this for free?

    15. Re:Wait... by causality · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nah, I don't think they're anywhere near that emotionally invested. Remember, we're talking about the lawyers here, not the RIAA/MPAA themselves. For the lawyers, all they're probably interested in is the money. They're not pissed off because it gets in the way of their "holy crusade" because, the truth is, they'll probably still win most of these cases in the end. What they're so pissed off about is that he threw a wrench in their get rich quick scheme. Instead of being able to bully people into paying $2500 a pop with very little bill-able lawyer time, now they'll have to file their claims in a huge number of different courts across the country and will, likely, have to actually fight some of the cases. With all that interference, they might not be able to make the huge profit they were drooling over initially.

      You're technically correct but splitting hairs. I'm taking a broad view, not of the surface actors but of the authors of their scripts. Those actors, in turn, are voluntary participants and therefore part of the production. Sure, they're in it for the money but look one step beyond that: there is a reason that this is where they see the dollar signs. That reason is the (un)holy agenda of draconian copyright.

      Many bitter wars had mercenaries who were only loyal to their money; that didn't make such wars any more or any less of a religious crusade in nature. What you're seeing here are two sides of the same coin. The RIAA/MPAA need to hire lawyers like this as part of pushing their agenda. Lawyers like this would largely have to find another line of work if not for large, organized, monied clients like the RIAA/MPAA.

      The group of lawyers known as the USCG has thrown their lot in with the likes of the RIAA/MPAA. At any time they could decide that integrity is important, that they don't want to participate in this bullshit, that they don't want money tainted by bullying and intimidation. They haven't. They're not only part of the madness, they're an essential component of it. They could be called the executive arm of the larger agenda. When the backlash against this madness finally does occur, it will rightly include them, for they are Satan's little helpers.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    16. Re:Wait... by mjwalshe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      cant see any judge even the "hem hem" dodgy ones in east Texas objecting to a lawyer plying his trade

    17. Re:Wait... by theexaptation · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think they are confusing speculation with reality. The USCG lawyers are sending letters to people who are not guilty of anything (not until they are found/proven guilty). They are only asserting that they are guilty. Now they are suing someone for making it possible for the defendants to contest their speculation and requiring them to actually prove guilt in a court of law. The people they are threatening owe them nothing unless found guilty and someone enabling them to contest their speculation even less. Gaming the legal system in this way shows that their intent is to extort money using threatening letters with dollar amounts calculated to be cheaper than mounting a defense (as a zero sum game) not prove guilt. Not too much different from "you have a nice place here, I wouldn't want anything bad to happen to it".

    18. Re:Wait... by Motard · · Score: 4, Informative

      I scanned their complaint and one point they make is arguably valid. According to the article itself, three of the motions fail. But they keep having to respond to them because they're always automatically filed by the purchaser of the forms. This presumably is a waste of the court's time.

      But I bet this happens all the time with real lawyers running the show.

    19. Re:Wait... by deapbluesea · · Score: 1

      When the backlash against this madness finally does occur, it will rightly include them, for they are Satan's little helpers.

      Disclaimers up front:

      1. I don't approve of the method currently used against suspected copyright pirates.
      2. I think the RIAA/MPAA need to develop a business model on selling products, not litigating prospective customers
      3. Not all P2P is illegal

      Now with that out of the way, let's not forget that most, if not all, of the people being sued are, in fact, breaking the law. The copyright of a brand new movie is not an evil thing. The studio spent millions to create it, they should be able to profit off of it for some reasonable amount of time (not for the current time limit of infinity+1, but reasonable).

      The movies listed have all been out for less than two years. I think any reasonable person can agree that a copyright should last more than two. I think it's reasonable that the copyright holders go after pirates in this case. I don't think it's reasonable to go after the lawyer who is helping pirates defend themselves. This is like suing the defence lawyers for having the audacity to defend their client. The USCG has clearly gone stupid on this, but let's not lose track of the fact that illegal activity is (allegedly) occurring on the part of the accused too.

      --
      Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
    20. Re:Wait... by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      The copyright of a brand new movie is not an evil thing. The studio spent millions to create it, they should be able to profit off of it for some reasonable amount of time (not for the current time limit of infinity+1, but reasonable).

      Maybe, but there needs to be a better reason than merely that they spent money creating it.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    21. Re:Wait... by Eponymous+Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'll just leave this here.

    22. Re:Wait... by DavidTC · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, I don't understand either.

      The guy's a lawyer. He can sell legal services if he wants, for whatever amount he wants. Copyright law is Federal, so assuming he's able to appear in Federal court, he can give advice for things in those courts.

      And the fact it's pre-packaged doesn't change things....pre-packages legal services with set fees happen all the time. It's how people do wills and stuff. You pay $50, you get a form to fill out, they provide two witnesses and keep a copy. Lawyers don't have to charge by the hour.

      I'm a little baffled as to what he could be sued for.

      His clients could sue him for all sorts of stuff if his advice was bad, and he could be arrested by the government if his advice was illegal (Which is not likely.), but I can't comprehend how some other legal consul can sue him for giving legal advice.

      It seems a little bit idiotic our system is setup where people have to buy this, instead of the court handing it out for free, but $20 is pretty reasonable if they're actually useful.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    23. Re:Wait... by onepoint · · Score: 1

      using this as my source http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100330/1132478790.shtml for how many filed suits

      20000 cases would be the base number of the business plan.
      5% = 1000 copies sold.
      or about 20K in revenue

      not a bad business model.

      I wonder if he has an affiliate network ....

      Side note:
      looking at USCG, their model highly profitable, no wonder they are doing whatever it takes to put this guy out of business

      --
      if you see me, smile and say hello.
    24. Re:Wait... by Khyber · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "Sadly, the litigation from USCG is going to cost him"

      Not one damned dime. It should take a matter of mere MINUTES to prove USCG's vexatious litigation and put an end to their business model permanently.

      USCG's lawyers better backpedal quick before they get precedent set that cripples their business model.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    25. Re:Wait... by mitgib · · Score: 1

      They created it, what better reason do you need? I enjoy benefiting from my creations, as I'm sure most do.

      --
      Being a spelling & grammar Nazi is a sign you do not poses the intelligence to contribute to the conversation
    26. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Their point would have been valid if he was actually representing/advising the defendents who file these motions. The fact is he published several possible defences against this generic type of accusation and is up to the defendents and their lawyers to decide if these motions are appropriate. Apparently one of the motions stuck and the cases got dismissed. I guess when you are trying to sue 5,000 defendents at the same time, you should be prepared to actually argue in court with every single one of them. If you are not prepared to do so, then you are probably filing a frivolous lawsuite. I am not a lawyer, but if I were one I would try to first sue one or two defendents, and then if I win, use the judgement as a precedent to pursue in bulk every case that matches the circumstances. Then again this approach would be a little slow in bringing in cash from large numbers of intimidated people.

    27. Re:Wait... by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > They created it, what better reason do you need?

      "Defending" it needs to be worth the collateral damage of course.

      For the works in question here, the issue of worth in a the grand scheme of thing is highly dubious.

      No non-commercial pirate should be ruined for life over the good stuff. Nevermind tripe like this.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    28. Re:Wait... by causality · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Now with that out of the way, let's not forget that most, if not all, of the people being sued are, in fact, breaking the law.

      The original duration of copyright in the USA was twelve years, at which point the work became public domain. This was back when movable type was the most efficient way to distribute copies of something. Now that we can distribute works far more efficiently, to reach a much larger audience, at a much lower expense, has that original twelve-year duration been reduced to reflect the advancement of the state-of-the-art? No, it hasn't. Instead, it's been increased to a maximum of 120 years.

      Copyright is not a free gift granted to authors and artists. It's an exchange. It provides a temporary government-granted monopoly over a work -- that's the copyright holder's benefit. After a length of time, that monopoly expires and the work enriches the public domain -- that's society's benefit. Those two benefits are supposed to have a reasonable balance.

      There is no longer even an attempt to create the appearance of a balance. The major copyright holders today want perpetual copyright and they nearly have it. They have collectively said "thank you USA Public for sponsoring our government-backed monopoly, that was mighty nice of you, but we don't really want to honor our half of this bargain so we refuse to ever give anything back to you." They are the very "thieves" they accuse copyright infringers of being.

      Can you see why large numbers of people have lost respect for copyright law? There is a reason why "it's what the law says" fails to convince so many people. It's no wonder the lobbies keep pushing for harsher and more draconian enforcement of copyright. It's quite difficult to get millions of people to obey a law that has lost all respectability and completely destroyed any noble or useful purpose it once had.

      The movies listed have all been out for less than two years. I think any reasonable person can agree that a copyright should last more than two. I think it's reasonable that the copyright holders go after pirates in this case.

      If you actually want people to feel like they're doing something wrong when they download a movie, restore the balance and purpose that copyright law once represented. Otherwise, they're going to feel like they're retaliating against corporations that are screwing them over. Until that changes, the release date of the work is a distant secondary concern. As long as copyright is perpetually extended, it's also irrelevant.

      While they may or may not agree with it, a wise person understands that. The lobbies and interests don't. They have a singleminded mentality that is very much like that of a religious zealot. I think their motto would be "laws we buy are like violence; if they don't work, use more". That's why they aren't trying to restore balance and respectability to copyright. Instead, they want more people to suffer more severely for breaking a law that is not respectable.

      So yeah, a lot of people are breaking this law. You point that out but don't seem to appreciate why that might be. If anyone wants to fix it, what's happening now is the wrong approach. The way this is being handled risks eroding the respectability of not just copyright law, but law itself as an institution. How do you believe in concepts like the rule of law or the legitimacy of government when you can plainly see that a few powerful interests can bend both to their will?

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    29. Re:Wait... by nomadic · · Score: 1

      There's something the article isn't saying; I don't know what it is but there's no way even a semi-competent lawyer would demand legal fees just on the basis of this.

    30. Re:Wait... by nabsltd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Now with that out of the way, let's not forget that most, if not all, of the people being sued are, in fact, breaking the law.

      First off, the "evidence" is pretty thin, and even the lawyers involved have admitted that they know that many of the people sent the settlement letters had not infringed copyright. So, no, you can't say "most" of those getting letters are infringing copyright.

      Second, there are many possibilities where downloading a movie is not copyright infringement. As an example, I downloaded a copy of a movie because my just-purchased DVD was defective, and was the last one in the store. Sure, I could have dealt with trying to return an opened movie for store credit (which, I must note, is caused by the fact that the MPAA does not in any way stand behind the products they sell), but instead I just downloaded. Technically infringing, sure, but I'd love to see cases like it go to court. Heck, if you want to bankrupt the MPAA and RIAA, everyone should set up a torrent client and download every movie and music track they have already paid for.

    31. Re:Wait... by fishexe · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I scanned their complaint and one point they make is arguably valid. According to the article itself, three of the motions fail. But they keep having to respond to them because they're always automatically filed by the purchaser of the forms. This presumably is a waste of the court's time.

      But I bet this happens all the time with real lawyers running the show.

      You are correct. I am taking Civil Procedure currently and our professor has advised us to always file certain motions (motion to dismiss for failure to state a claim, motion for summary judgment, motion for judgment as a matter of law, and if we lose, motion for a new trial) even if we know they will be denied.

      --
      "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
    32. Re:Wait... by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They created it, what better reason do you need? I enjoy benefiting from my creations, as I'm sure most do.

      And I would like a pony, but that doesn't mean anyone should be obligated to give me one. Whether or not any given work deserves a copyright is ultimately up to the public, via a government that legitimately derives its power from their consent. So the questions we must consider are how does giving them a copyright benefit the rest of us, and what specific sort of copyright, in terms of what's eligible, how much protection there is, how long it lasts, etc., is best. Remember: a copyright is an infringement on the free speech right of everyone other than the copyright holder. They should not be granted lightly.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    33. Re:Wait... by mitgib · · Score: 1

      While most disagree with the defense route taken, myself included, the copyright owners, through their counsel are defending it in what they view as a worthwhile course. If you are going to torrent motion pictures that are not in the public domain, this is one of the risks you've signed up for.

      I've put some thought lately into how this whole copyright thing has been going, and I for one am very angry we the people are footing the bill for copyright owners, while the copyright owners for the most part are only reaping the rewards.

      At least here, the copyright owners are footing the bill, in hopes of creating another profit center, but at least they are doing it on their own, and not using the FBI or ICE as their free foot soldiers to protect their IP.

      --
      Being a spelling & grammar Nazi is a sign you do not poses the intelligence to contribute to the conversation
    34. Re:Wait... by mjwalshe · · Score: 1

      TY I should have remembered that Texas was the state that wanted it security pros to get PI licences if they wanted to be expert witnesses

    35. Re:Wait... by mitgib · · Score: 1

      So the questions we must consider are how does giving them a copyright benefit the rest of us, and what specific sort of copyright, in terms of what's eligible, how much protection there is, how long it lasts, etc., is best. Remember: a copyright is an infringement on the free speech right of everyone other than the copyright holder. They should not be granted lightly.

      You bring up some very interesting things to think about. As an attorney, you are aware today's copyright is not perfect, it is what it is, and it's what Hollywood paid for. As such, if you create a work, you have copyright, and can give that away through the creative commons and other such sources for the public good, or attempt to profit from it, or do nothing at all, it is the right you've been granted under copyright.

      There are just too many sides to this coin that I can only base my statement on current law. It is all we have to go on today. I look at stars in Hollywood making multi-million dollar paychecks for a single movie, is that right? I don't think so, but they are able to get it, so why shouldn't they. If I look back 50+ years when actors were contract workers to the studios, there were plenty of entertaining pictures made, it's the story after all that I enjoy, and the delivery was adequate to enjoy that story.

      Like every other aspect of life, copyright has become perverted to a state where a few benefit the most, and an overwhelming majority suffer. How can this be changed, with an unaware and uncaring populace that mostly refuses to vote, not easily. And frankly, copyright will remain too small an issue for many years to come unless something very drastic changes.

      --
      Being a spelling & grammar Nazi is a sign you do not poses the intelligence to contribute to the conversation
    36. Re:Wait... by arashi+no+garou · · Score: 1

      You seem to forget that it's not the downloading that people are being sued for. It's the "making available" to others, which is exactly what happens when one torrents. Setting up a torrent for each and every DVD and CD one owns amounts to making those works available to those who do not own the physical copy on an epic scale. For your idea to be relevant, you'd have to visit download-only file caches like Hotfile or Fileserve for your files.

    37. Re:Wait... by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      I hope you're right. I suspect you're wrong. Vexatious is a squishy observation in a court of law.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    38. Re:Wait... by Motard · · Score: 1

      I assume this is to create possible avenues for appeal?

    39. Re:Wait... by sparkeyjames · · Score: 2, Interesting

      QFTFA
      "The majority of state courts strike a balance between these extremes, holding that: providing forms, or performing notary or "scrivener" services (as directed by the "client") is lawful, even helpful; but a non-lawyer may not add instructions or advice --- even on how to choose, fill out or file the form. In these states, a do it yourself "kit" that contains something more than blank forms or templates would typically be found unlawful."

      Also they may present general examples of filled out forms or motions. They just can't give detailed information on how you have to fill out the form for your court case. Quite legal in many states and at the Federal level.

    40. Re:Wait... by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 1

      Exactly, look at the Oracle/Google case.

      They filed around 20 defenses or so, many of them contradictory (i.e. if one is true, two or three others cannot be).

      It's the shotgun approach, and it works. It doesn't matter if the motions fail for 99% of people, it works for 1%, and there is no telling who it will work for before hand. They are also treated separately, so two motions can contradict each other without harming the motions. It simply indicates that one or more of the motions is no good, it doesn't tell you which.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    41. Re:Wait... by Artifakt · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I wouldn't clalm that an absolute majority of Slashdotters that oppose the current broken copyright system liked the older 28 year rules, but there have been enough posters that it's fair to say at least a very healthy minority do. Add me to that. I'd be perfectly happy to see these films protected by an automatic 14 year copyright with the owners allowed to renew for another 14 at their option. I'd be fine with them being able to seek some punitive damages even where the violation isn't for profit, although I see $150,000 per incident as both absurd and immoral.
        Its fair to point out, for these recent film cases, the chance a violation has done real harm and cost real money is very high, and this is fundamentally different from the case of, say a 20 year old TV show or novel, where the odds are more of a mixed bag. Really cleaning up the copyright mess means taking the most likely consequences into account, and for cases like this one, the likelyest consequences include real harm to the copyright holder.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    42. Re:Wait... by The+Hatchet · · Score: 1

      And in the vast majority of cases they make it all back and a shit-ton more in the first week it is out, because people like seeing movies on the big screen. It is entertainment, it is date time, it will make them millions even if downloading it illegally was common practice. Plus in this day and age, by the time something has been out two years it has long since been forgotten about. And regardless, they will profit off it for years, because it is a lot easier to buy a blue-ray disk than to illegally download a 25 gb movie. Most downloads could fit on a cd with room to spare, but are sold on DVD anyways as movie companies think it makes it sound like it is really better quality.

      And really, a lot of those notices go out to people who don't even know what pirating is, much less partake in it. Anyone who doesn't have a secured wifi has likely gotten such a notice.

      Plus, in all reality, they have the right to charge for the cost of the download, and no extrapolated social costs. They have the right to send you a bill for no more than the cost of the quality version of the movie that was downloaded - the cost of producing the packaging that the movie is sold in. If this were the case, they would get all of their money back when they send out requests, but instead they demand more money than anyone who has to resort to pirating even has the ability to pay, and threaten to destroy lives etc. I think you can see what I am getting at here.

      --
      Where is the mod rating for "scary"? Also, ...
    43. Re:Wait... by The+Hatchet · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But none of that really matters because firms of copyright lawyers buy up copyrights from the business after they stop making big bucks, and then sue the shit out of tons of people. Really, this is a case of business people profiteering off of the work of others, and making their living solely by destroying lives of people who were too poor to afford a movie and had to download it to watch it, and then threatening to take away what little they have and put them in debt forever, if not in prison. There is nothing even morally ok about that.

      --
      Where is the mod rating for "scary"? Also, ...
    44. Re:Wait... by The+Hatchet · · Score: 1

      I wish I still had mod points, because this should be rated insightful +10

      --
      Where is the mod rating for "scary"? Also, ...
    45. Re:Wait... by The+Hatchet · · Score: 1

      sticking a wrench in automatic fucking of people too poor to buy movies. See, doing anything to fight the 'sacred' copyright monopolies who largely make money off of the work of others, is seen by the copyright legal society as so holy that to interfere with it should be punishable by torture and death. While this is all their crazy fantasy, it is what it is. Find a bullshit charge and place it.

      --
      Where is the mod rating for "scary"? Also, ...
    46. Re:Wait... by Locutus · · Score: 1

      yes, and their reaction sounds exactly what you would expect from them since their business is money from threats. I hope it works out for the better for Mr Syfert.

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    47. Re:Wait... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      If I go to a public park and plant a tree, does the tree still belong to me? Does the park then belong to me?

      And copyright has a specific legal requirement in the USA that it encourage work. Copyright law that exists with the express reason of protecting creations or protecting profits without regard to the primary goal of encouraging works to enter the Public Domain is illegal. Your argument is unconstitutional (not that saying it is, but a law that did what you said for the reason you stated would be an unconstitutional law).

    48. Re:Wait... by AK+Marc · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's a shame estoppel doesn't apply. "They've stated (1) and (2) which, if we presume them to be acting consistently and in good faith, proves (3) and (4) wrong/invalid. Further, they've asserted (3) which if correct would make (1) and (2) invalid. As such, they've asserted one or more things which prove all their other claims, and/or their original claim, must be false. Since it is not the job of the court to determine which assertion is most effective and take that one and only one, the only reasonable course is to dismiss all such contradictory claims."

      But then, that would be common sense, and that's illegal in a court of law.

    49. Re:Wait... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      A lawyer in State A is licensed only for State A. To provide legal advice in State B is an offense. Since he provides legal advice for all other states, he is breaking the laws/rules of somewhere. (and that's a little simplified, as there are overlapping jurisdictions when one then talks about federal court, but you get the point)

    50. Re:Wait... by Chris+Snook · · Score: 1

      Except that that's an illegal business model and can get you disbarred.

      --
      There's no failure quite as dissatisfying as a complete and total solution to the wrong problem.
    51. Re:Wait... by gizmonic · · Score: 1

      The only thing insane is thinking you need to punish people for downloading Far Cry. Anyone who did that has punished themselves enough already.

      --
      WWJD?
      JWRTFM!
    52. Re:Wait... by muindaur · · Score: 1

      He's a lawyer so he has the money, and once it's done he can motion for his legal fees. I would imagine he could argue that it's the amount he would have gotten had he been able to charge a client for that time normally, but coulnd't because of the frivolous suit.

    53. Re:Wait... by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      There's some for(;;) logic there.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    54. Re:Wait... by Tuoqui · · Score: 1

      The free advertising is great. That good old web.

      Sadly, the litigation from USCG is going to cost him, so that $20/copy will hopefully cover his own costs, but I doubt it. USCG has every reason to press him as hard as they can, although I would hope that a decent judge would throw out the suit with prejudice. Sadly, that's unlikely to happen.

      The free advertising exacerbates the problem as each of the other USCG litigants now has a $20 defense package available to them. Would USCG find an insane jury (possible, if it gets to trial) and some theory of law that multiplies the damages, then our courageous lawyer gets a multiplier to the damages for each $20 defense package sold.

      The whole thing is fucking insane.

      Except that unlike a copyright suit which the plaintiff has a (presumably) reasonable claim to damages. The $20 package is entirely copyright the guy who put it together. Also the guy is a lawyer and presumably capable of giving general legal advice in this fashion. I look at this as the equivalent of those 'Legal Will Kits' .

      Basically the guy's $20 package probably educates the person being sued. They know that they should not pay these guys a dime and consult a lawyer and shines a light on their tactics in such a way that the layman can comfortably talk with which ever lawyer they retain to defend themselves.

      --
      09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0
      +2 Troll is Slashdot's way of saying groupthink is confused
    55. Re:Wait... by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      That would seem to be the case, but giving people the basics for $20 is perhaps a good value; I have no idea of the quality of the contents, but perhaps it's well spent; perhaps not.

      I doubt anyone believes that $20 fixes all their litigation ills from USCG. But it's a light in the dark considering that most attorneys won't touch any litigation without a serious retainer. At least one gets an idea what they might be in for, cost wise-- and how to fight if they're not guilty.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    56. Re:Wait... by Pseudonym+Authority · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Moderatrix, Your second chance when moderating slashdot.
      I do recommend.

    57. Re:Wait... by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      You seem to forget that it's not the downloading that people are being sued for. It's the "making available" to others, which is exactly what happens when one torrents.

      The RIAA lawsuits specifically list "downloading", and it's generally the only one that is being pushed, because they absolutely do not want a ruling about "making available" to go against them.

    58. Re:Wait... by Chris+Snook · · Score: 1

      Judges are lawyers. When they see this, they'll be thinking "you've got to be kidding me", which doesn't bode well for USCG.

      --
      There's no failure quite as dissatisfying as a complete and total solution to the wrong problem.
    59. Re:Wait... by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      No, he's licensed in federal court, and copyright is a federal offense, and these are federal courts.

      Someone who isn't licensed in, say, Maine, but in Federal court, can still show up there and argue a case in Federal court.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    60. Re:Wait... by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Well at least the guy should be able to save a lot of cost by not having to hire himself a lawyer. Though that's off-set by a loss in potential earnings of course.

    61. Re:Wait... by sexybomber · · Score: 1

      Wait till you get to Evidence / Trial Advocacy... it's the exact same reason why you object, knowing you're going to get overruled. You can't preserve something for appeal that you never brought up / filed at trial. It may be a shotgun approach, but if you don't use too wide of a spread, it works. (I recommend a modified choke.)

      / By that analogy, Brother Syfert's trying to blow kneecaps off these punk bitches... I hope he lays the smackdown at trial.

    62. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My goodness, that was well said!

    63. Re:Wait... by belmolis · · Score: 1

      Providing such documents is not considered providing legal services and does not require a law license. He can do it in any jurisdiction.

    64. Re:Wait... by ultranova · · Score: 1

      Judges are lawyers. When they see this, they'll be thinking "you've got to be kidding me", which doesn't bode well for USCG.

      Judges are lawyers. That means they're not going to squash an easy source of revenue for lawyers, such as USCG suits. And of course there's also the matter of punishing the traitor who sided with peasants.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    65. Re:Wait... by Eivind · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your numbers are sligthly off -- check em up, using wrong numbers risk offtracking the discussion, which would be a pity because your general point is very much valid.

      There's 2 more reasons people have lost respect for copyright. One is that copying is today frequently a *private* act. It's one thing to ban copying of books and music, at a time when really, only people owning printing-presses are practically capable of copying a book anyway. The general public isn't giving up much, because giving up the right to do something you cannot practically do anyway, is a small sacrifice.

      Today, however, giving your sister/friend/boyfriend/grandmother a copy of a song you like, is a trivial, routine, straigthforward act. Thus today the same rule directly interferes with peoples private lives. Some jurisdictions (Norway where I live for example) has recognized this as bollocks, and have made specific exceptions. Limited copying for private use is not a copyright-violation here. ("limited" is somewhat fuzzy offcourse, but a low number for close friends/relatives would certainly qualify)

      That's one.

      The second is that I am regularily being lied to. I dislike being lied to. I do not tend to respect people who regularily lie to me.

      I respect it even less when the reason they're lying, is because they HOPE that I will believe it, essentially they're trying to trick me into believing I've got less rights than I do.

      When a new DVD says "Any use outside the private home is illegal", that's a lie. When software claims I need a /license/ to run it, that's a lie. (in my jurisdiction it is!) When a game claims that lending or resale is illegal, that's a blatant lie - I break no law whatsoever by letting a friend borrow a game.

      If someone wants my respect. Lying to me, is not a good first move.

    66. Re:Wait... by N+Monkey · · Score: 1

      I'll just leave this here.

      Nice... I especially liked

      The Court noted the minimal cautionary language displayed to the user, and noted the lack of accessible disclaimers. A disclaimer, which warns the user that each situation requires a unique approach

      I wonder if the USCG uniquely handcrafted the letters for each of their 'situations'?

    67. Re:Wait... by fishexe · · Score: 1

      I assume this is to create possible avenues for appeal?

      Sometimes, but sometimes not even that. I should have said "even if we know they are groundless." You want to file any motion that has a good justification even if you know the trial judge won't buy it because you can appeal the judge's denial of your motion; that's obviously sound practice. Where it gets a bit dodgy is that our prof. tells us to always file them even if we know all our arguments suck, because it forces them to react, and who knows, you might win because of an inattentive or sympathetic (or senile) judge. The latter is doubly true with tech cases where you can add ignorant to that list. He says any good lawyer on the other side will be doing the same and to be prepared for that as well, so apparently this is standard practice.

      --
      "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
    68. Re:Wait... by DDLKermit007 · · Score: 1

      Illegal for sure, but make the punishment fit the crime, and burden of proof be on the media companies. At most, these people being sued should be liable for 2-3 copies of what they infringed. When someone steals a DVD from a shop, you don't make them liable for every copy in the store, and then some. You make them liable for exactly what they deprived you of. Most of these people downloading anymore are uploading incremental bits to various users. All those bits assembled into one piece barely make up 2-3 whole copies, and thats IF they aren't leaches (which is rare) who don't just dine & dash once they have what they want. At that, especially bit-torrent they can only prove you have a complete copy or not because your client only relays that info to them.

      The punishment just needs to fit the crime, not be a life changing event because you downloaded the greatest trash single of the month.

    69. Re:Wait... by fishexe · · Score: 1

      Wait till you get to Evidence / Trial Advocacy... it's the exact same reason why you object, knowing you're going to get overruled. You can't preserve something for appeal that you never brought up / filed at trial.

      Yeah, I should've been more clear, this has been pointed out in another response. What I should have said is that our Civ Pro prof wants us to always file them even when they are basically groundless. Even if we know we'll be denied the motion and lose on appeal we're still supposed to file to get the other side to react, and to take a chance at a hail-mary pass for relatively little cost.

      P.S. Cardozo quotes in a sig win my instant approval.

      --
      "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
    70. Re:Wait... by metrix007 · · Score: 1

      Out of curiosity, what is your jurisdiction?

      --
      If you ignore ACs because they are anonymous - you're an idiot.
    71. Re:Wait... by Combatso · · Score: 1

      Some jurisdictions (Norway where I live for example) has recognized this as bollocks

      Wake up man.. I know its monday and all,..

    72. Re:Wait... by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      For the lawyers, all they're probably interested in is the money.

      That's all the MAFIAA is interested in, too. And the GP was correct about this being a religious jihad; this country's main religion is the worship of mammon.

    73. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes! it is so funny! that same thing that happened to the music industry is now happening to their lawyers!

      *pass me some popcorn*

    74. Re:Wait... by SCPRedMage · · Score: 1

      While I agree whole-heartedly on your views of copyright law, and have expressed pretty much the exact same arguments elsewhere, the sad fact is that the vast majority of so-called "pirates" don't even KNOW that copyright was supposed to be shorter, let alone CARE about it. They don't view it as "retaliation" against a corporation that is "screwing them over", because they don't even recognize that they ARE being screwed over. They download things because they don't care. They aren't involved with the people who create it, and (to their knowledge) they won't see any direct consequences to their actions, so it registers as someone else's problem.

      In short, I'm saying that copyright law DOES desperately need to be fixed (including a return to shorter lengths, so things can actually still be RELEVANT when they enter public domain), but solving the copyright problem will have little to no affect on the "piracy" "problem".

      --
      My sig can beat up your sig.
    75. Re:Wait... by Jim_Maryland · · Score: 1

      Really, this is a case of business people profiteering off of the work of others, and making their living solely by destroying lives of people who were too poor to afford a movie and had to download it to watch it, and then threatening to take away what little they have and put them in debt forever, if not in prison.

      Nobody "had" to watch a movie or play a song. Lack of ability to pay doesn't grant you a right to something for free.

    76. Re:Wait... by vuffi_raa · · Score: 1

      Second, there are many possibilities where downloading a movie is not copyright infringement.

      Yes downloading that movie isn't infringement but as well, downloading a movie that you don't own isn't infringement either. Infringement is enforceable against the distributors, not the possessor. If you go to say, rapidshare and get a movie, the person who posts it is responsible- you are not, though if you share it via bittorrent, you are the responsible party since you are both sharing and downloading. This is why people like the RiAA, MPAA were so gung ho about CIOCA. They could blanket ban things with no recourse that they couldn't sue for.

    77. Re:Wait... by kenshin33 · · Score: 1

      what is exactly copyrighted, the whole thing or bits and pieces?? from a logical stand I'd say the whole Work of Art. And any derivative work, just to emphasis that is the work that is important and not the package (format shift), Digitally that would give a particular "binary string" that makes up that file. So, infringing would pertain to that binary string as a whole, not any sub-string (or a collection of sub-strings that is different from the whole set), so if the bittorrent clients make sure to not serve the whole string to any one person, they wouldn't really be infringing (technically) as they would appear exchanging random bit strings to which nobody holds any copyright. Every participating node would eventually end up with a whole copy but at no time no particular one had served a whole copy, just "no so random bits" that have no value at all.

    78. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remember, we're talking about the lawyers here, not the RIAA/MPAA themselves.

      I say again -- Them guys all pee in the same pot.

      Dump it on all their heads.

    79. Re:Wait... by Eivind · · Score: 1

      Norway.

      And in case I give a different impression, the system here is FAR from perfect, not even halfway-decent, we share the MUCH too long protection-times, for example. But there's a couple of bugs in the system that don't exist here, such as these two:

      1) Running a computer-program typically starts with making an in-ram copy of the on-disk program, in some (buggy!) jurisdiction this copying violates copyright, thus you need a permission to run a program, even if you legally bought your copy. Here, there's a specific exception for incidental copies that arise as a result of using the artifact.

      2) Printing a million copies of Avatar and selling these for profit, is a different act from letting your sister have a copy of a mp3 she likes. The law should recognize that the correct word for the latter is "normal" and not "criminal".

    80. Re:Wait... by The+Hatchet · · Score: 1

      Of course they don't have to, but this is the modern world. If you lack knowledge of popular memes because you can't afford movies, good luck connecting with employers and understanding bizarre aspects of our culture.

      Also, I didn't say it was a requirement, I was saying that in order to watch it, they would have to download it because they can not afford it, not they have to watch it so they must download it. Clearly English is not your strong suit.

      Plus, the current business model is broken. Nobody wants to pay 10-20 bucks for a dvd or 50 for a blue-ray of a movie that has a VERY good chance at being worth jack shit. On the other hand, I have bought a number of movie that I once downloaded in high quality so that I can enjoy them in a resolution greater than 800x640. And if I had the money I would see good looking movies in the theater. I managed to see inglorious bastards in the theater and it was worth every penny. Not so much on a 15" screen.

      The problem is these companies screw over all of the talent, and give almost all of the profit, at least 95% to some white guy wearing a nice suit that weights 350 pounds and has four mistrisses, a wife and a dozen kids and goes to church every sunday.

      And the matter of fact is that all I have to do if I want something is get on the webs and borrow a copy of it. The real question is, just because I got something for free, does that mean other people have a right to fuck me up the ass with a mega-dildo made of rusty iron? I don't fucking think so.

      So get off your self righteous ass, learn english, get out of other peoples business, and stop playing the "poor people deserve nothing but boredom and suffering" bullshit that you think you have a right to pull just because you have the funds to toss around.

      --
      Where is the mod rating for "scary"? Also, ...
    81. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would make late discovery ineffective. A counterexample would be an appeal to the ECHR where the claim of violation against human rights should be uphold all the way from the lowest national court to the national supreme court equivalent in order to be generally admissible.

    82. Re:Wait... by causality · · Score: 1

      While I agree whole-heartedly on your views of copyright law, and have expressed pretty much the exact same arguments elsewhere, the sad fact is that the vast majority of so-called "pirates" don't even KNOW that copyright was supposed to be shorter, let alone CARE about it. They don't view it as "retaliation" against a corporation that is "screwing them over", because they don't even recognize that they ARE being screwed over. They download things because they don't care. They aren't involved with the people who create it, and (to their knowledge) they won't see any direct consequences to their actions, so it registers as someone else's problem. In short, I'm saying that copyright law DOES desperately need to be fixed (including a return to shorter lengths, so things can actually still be RELEVANT when they enter public domain), but solving the copyright problem will have little to no affect on the "piracy" "problem".

      Being involved with the people who create a copyrighted work would be one reason to think about copyright law. It's not the only one. If that law really meant something and had real meaning because it represented a reasonable balance, then obeying it would be seen as a civic duty. Right now we don't have a culture of principled appreciation of law. Right now we have a list of "do's and don'ts" with a whole host of people waiting for you to break the rules. This is a decadence, a devolution from a higher state. It didn't happen overnight.

      One reason so many are ignorant about the purpose and history of copyright law is that, in our government which is supposedly "by the people and for the people" they had no input concerning the matter of its recent extensions. The whole affair was done by powerful lobbies and lots of money and a very one-sided presentation about "evil pirates" in the media.

      It's not a coincidence that the enumerated power given to the US Government of establishing a copyright has become so corrupted AND the average person is ignorant about its history and purpose AND there is so much lawlessness concerning this issue. These things all go together.

      Whether or not they have read about copyright's history or purpose as you and I have done, those who ignore it are still going to fit the general pattern of lawlessness. It does not matter whether they do it because it's cheaper than paying or if they do it as a form of civil disobedience against a law they know all about. The result is the same.

      That kind of certainty, that inevitability of results is why it's so dangerous to allow law to stray so far away from any legitimate purpose it may have possessed. Law needs to be as simple, robust, reasonable, and principled as possible. When you destroy that by bending it to serve a tiny minority of interests, it loses that respectability. One sign of that, is that the average person doesn't think it's important to become aware of it.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    83. Re:Wait... by Jim_Maryland · · Score: 1

      Of course they don't have to, but this is the modern world. If you lack knowledge of popular memes because you can't afford movies, good luck connecting with employers and understanding bizarre aspects of our culture

      I have yet to go through an interview process where missing a particular movie lost me a chance at a position.

      Also, I didn't say it was a requirement

      I read your statement with "had to" as implying that they needed to download it rather than a wanted to download it. Given your follow up trying to say a person would be able to connect with employers, I think I interpreted your intent correctly.

      Plus, the current business model is broken.

      I agree with you on that. Agreeing doesn't imply that I think it is OK though to illegally download the content though. Just because we think something is wrong, doesn't give us the right to violate current laws, rather we need to work to change them.

      Nobody wants to pay 10-20 bucks for a dvd or 50 for a blue-ray of a movie that has a VERY good chance at being worth jack shit. On the other hand, I have bought a number of movie that I once downloaded in high quality so that I can enjoy them in a resolution greater than 800x640. And if I had the money I would see good looking movies in the theater. I managed to see inglorious bastards in the theater and it was worth every penny. Not so much on a 15" screen.

      Most movies get numerous reviews, both from professional critics and average viewers. If you aren't sure about the quality of the video, do a little homework. I have purchased a few bad videos myself, but I can either turn around and sell it second hand or just eat the loss and blame myself for not looking at several reviews. Inglorious Bastards was a good movie in my opinion too.

      The problem is these companies screw over all of the talent, and give almost all of the profit, at least 95% to some white guy wearing a nice suit that weights 350 pounds and has four mistrisses, a wife and a dozen kids and goes to church every sunday.

      Might be true, but is that your problem or the problem of the actors? Does your illegal download change their situation in any way or are you simply trying to make yourself feel better about it?

      And the matter of fact is that all I have to do if I want something is get on the webs and borrow a copy of it. The real question is, just because I got something for free, does that mean other people have a right to fuck me up the ass with a mega-dildo made of rusty iron? I don't fucking think so.

      Not sure if your local library has videos, but mine does. While they may not be your local NetFlix/Blockbuster, they do have a pretty good selection of current content. If they don't, have you considered a NetFlix subscription? For $7.99, you can stream content or for $9.99 you can get the DVDs mailed. If either of those are too expensive, you may have other budget cuts more worthwhile (like broadband service?).

      So get off your self righteous ass, learn english, get out of other peoples business, and stop playing the "poor people deserve nothing but boredom and suffering" bullshit that you think you have a right to pull just because you have the funds to toss around.

      Maybe you need to quit playing the victim to justify your actions. While I don't like the current business model any more than you or many here, that doesn't mean you can ignore what is or isn't illegal based on your economic situation.

    84. Re:Wait... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      This isn't an issue of late discovery. This is an issue of simultaneous contradictory claims. If someone sued you because the sky was blue and you filed a response that, on a single sheet of paper, claimed that they are wrong because the sky is exclusively red, the sky is exclusively white, the and sky is exclusively yellow, then your response must be at least 66% wrong. I would consider that different from filing that you looked outside and the sky was black (at night) then looked out later and the sky was gray (cloudy).

      This isn't an issue about claims changing as information changes. This isn't an issue about claiming non-exclusive multiple defenses. It's only an issue about filing many statements at the same time which are contradictory. Changing your mind later and rescinding previous claims is valid. Asserting 1+1=3 and 1+1=4 in the same document should invalidate the document in its entirety.

    85. Re:Wait... by The+Hatchet · · Score: 1

      1. The English language is so completely made of cultural memes generated by the entertainment industry and so sparsely touched by outside sources that without watching a substantial amount of iconic movies, a good 25% of conversation makes no sense. I know, because that was once me.

      2. You did not interpret my intent correctly, I simply responded to your response before I realized you responded to something I never said, grammatically or intently.

      3. Law is not a moral imperative, moral imperative should determine law. The idea that law is a moral imperative is one of the most profound logical fallacies in relation to freedom, and allows governments to become oppressive without opposition. It is sickening, disgusting, and flat out false.

      4. Every single movie does have thousands of reviews. The problem is that every movie gets review ranging from "an hour you will never be able to suppress from your memory" to "the greatest movie experience of my life" and everything in between, all with great justifications of their position and backing. Adequately educated as to the potential quality of the movie still leaves you totally clueless about whether it is going to be worth it or not.

      5. Selling movies second hand is illegal according to current copyright law, it is considered pirating and unless you are granted a resale license you can be imprisoned for up to 5 years and fined up to 100,000 dollars for such an offense. This has happened before, and will happen again. Understand why the copyfight over copyright is copyimportant?

      6. My illegal download is still illegal if I donate the sale price of the movie to the organization that made the movie instead of the post production company that profits from it and passes on a negligible percentage to the actual workers. Even our fucking entertainment industry has become share-cropping, along with everything else outside of the financial markets and top brass management positions.

      7. I have a pay as you go cell phone because there is a good chance I won't be able to afford the cheapest plan available when the bill arrives. This is not the kind of luxury I can spare.

      8. I am not a local citizen because I haven't paid more than 10,000 in state income taxes, and I am ineligible for all state and local programs, such as libraries, even though I am a citizen of the country.

      9. I am not playing the victim, nor am I trying to justify my actions. I am simply claiming that I don't give a shit about a corrupt system in which any money spent goes strait to sick bastards. To pay for a movie would be as morally degrading as punching one of the actors in the face and laughing at them while some old white guy in a suit eats ice cream coated in gold powder just because he can because he figured out how to corner a market on the transfer of goods from production to consumer. I simply don't give a damn. If the system isn't going to work in a morally acceptable way, or at least in a way that wouldn't make me feel like I just ate a raw baby kitten, then I won't abide by the rules of said system. As long as I have the ability to circumvade the system and as long as I cannot otherwise afford to comply with the system, I feel no need to contribute to it.

      Think of it this way: it isn't a question of whether or not I am ignoring the law or not, it is a simple matter of I am going to do what I have to get what I want, and as long as the system is morally disgusting, i have no need to feel bad about it.

      --
      Where is the mod rating for "scary"? Also, ...
    86. Re:Wait... by Jim_Maryland · · Score: 1

      Responses:

      1 - I don't disagree with the content of movies rather I disagree that seeing those references is a necessity. While I can't claim to have a huge list of employers over my lifetime, I have never encountered a situation where not seeing a movie or knowing a particular cultural reference impacted employment. I have seen where one can feel "outside" a conversation with friends, but that hardly justifies copyright infringement.

      2 - Since it wasn't your intent initially, I apologize for taking it that way to start.

      3 - Somehow I don't see a judge throwing out a copyright infringement based on your moral imperative, at least not without a long expensive fight. I agree with you on some points, but that doesn't give you a free pass to ignore the law, unless you intend to challenge the copyright law. I may be reading your earlier statements incorrectly, but I gather that you aren't exactly in an economic situation to take on this type of fight yourself. I'd encourage joining or supporting an organization that is challenging the law to change it.

      4 - The review sites that I've used in the past generally allow looking at a reviewers history. While no system is perfect, you can often find someone with similar taste and weigh their review more than others.

      5 - First Sale Doctrine - "buyers of retail DVDs in the United States are free to sell or exchange them, and rent and lend them to others."

      8 - I don't believe income level factors into ability to obtain a library card. My in-laws are on a very limited income (disabled) and they qualify.

      9 - You still come off sounding like you are trying to justify your actions, now by claiming a moral justification since movie distributors "eat gold coated ice cream". If you truly disagree with the system, work to change it legally. Using the excuse that the system is corrupt (or whatever other word you want to use) doesn't change the current legality of your actions.

    87. Re:Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, I was thinking about the fishexe's motions with time dimension. Asserting 1+1+f=3 and 1+1+f=4, where f is a function of law, case-law, research, customs, and other valid legal sources should "quickly" solve the problem of contradictory/irrelevant claims, though. I am looking things from non-US perspective, however.

    88. Re:Wait... by dougmc · · Score: 1

      Setting up a torrent for each and every DVD and CD one owns amounts to making those works available to those who do not own the physical copy on an epic scale.

      OK, but that's presumably not what most of these people are doing.

      What you've described is how Napster (the original) and Limewire and other similar things worked by default -- you shared a directory that often included all your music, including what you downloaded.

      But torrents aren't used this way. Instead, somebody with the item they're sharing creates a torrent and others connect to this torrent and start downloading. But with the way a torrent works, while you're downloading, you're uploading, and therefore "making available" -- even if you haven't finished downloading the item yet, you're still making it available. You could even be "making it available" and yet never have it yourself (not in a form you can use, anyways -- you might have parts of it.)

      I don't know if these people are going after the seeds (people who are making the entire item available) or those who have some of the item (and so are making part of it available) or just anybody who's part of the torrent (which would even include those who haven't downloaded or uploaded a single byte of the item.) Going after the seeds would seem to give them a stronger case, but would reduce the number of people they could extort money from.

      In any event, when a user downloads a torrent, they don't make "every DVD and CD they own" available -- they only make available what's in the torrent, the parts they've already downloaded. As for the people who actually make the torrents and make them available -- I'm guessing that most of them are doing it in a way that makes it harder to sue them (i.e. being in a different country, using somebody else's IP address, etc.) since if they didn't, they'd likely get hit with lots of lawsuits.

    89. Re:Wait... by The+Hatchet · · Score: 1

      In any important job, interviews are what matters. If a potential employer sees you as out of touch, that puts you at the bottom of the list. Especially important in times when the unemployment rate is so high.

      First of all, modern copyright has nothing to do with protecting artists, it has to do with perpetually milking every cent possible from customers. Copyright was originally 2 years of protection, and meant to protect people from somebody going out and selling your work as their own. Now it has turned into "you are piggybacking off something related to us in some way, pay us millions of dollars or we will crush you with the full might of the law, even including copyrights up to 80 years old, that have nothing to do with protecting our intellectual property as much as it does profiteering from the fact that you are a part of culture"

      The extent of the power a law holds is only as far as the people put into it. If a law by definition fucks everyone up the ass, it doesn't hold a lot of power. Think of what I am doing as downloading movies to distract me from my shitty life in my freezing slummy apartment with cluster headaches and stress out the wazoo. I don't need to justify violating an invalid law.

      4. Yea, because I want to spend more time figuring out if a movie will be good than I will spend watching it

      First sale doctrine has been irrelevant for years now. You see, you are never actually buying a movie, you are buying a license to use the movie under certain conditions, some of those conditions include not reselling the material with very strict penalties. Basically, as if copyright law wasn't fucked up enough, companies figured out that instead of selling the movie or the software, they can just sell licences to use that specific piece of data, and stipulate conditions in the fine print that nobody even knows about until they are sitting in a courtroom with the best lawyer their poor ass could afford, crying their eyes out as they watch their life be destroyed because they sold a copy of a movie they no longer like to a friend. This happens all the fucking time, especially with "bulk suits" by the copyright giants.

      Also, renting and lending of movie is prohibited under the standard license you buy, only certain organiztions which pay large amounts of money for said advanced licenses get to rent them, and they, on top of the original fee they have to pay royalties. Like I said, this system is so fucked up it makes people with emotions want to jump off bridges, and it has made many actually do so.

      I moved from one state to another. In order for me to receive the benefits associated with residency, I have to pay at least 10k in income taxes over the time I have lived here. Since all of that time has been spent in college and in agonizing pain from cluster headaches, I have not even come remotely close to this number.

      9. Let me rephrase that. I don't respect those laws, and feel no need to work within them at all. All of the existing laws were flat out purchased through corrupt means, and are all ignored for more extreme contractual laws that are fundamentally damning. What kind of moron in their right mind would pay for software when the license says "we can remove your right to use it at any time without refund, you can not resell it, you can only use it for the following purposes etc" I sure as hell wouldn't. But because they don't tell you that you are only buying a license, as they are not legally required to, they sell things at prices so ridiculously unfair that only a moron would pay them. And frankly, illegally made laws are illegal, to follow them would be supporting corruption, and I frankly don't give a shit. What reason is there to work within the law here? It will never change as long as the xxIAs pour tens of millions of dollars a year into lobbyists, lawyers and new methods to circumvent all laws and be evil irregardless of how fair the law is.

      And yes, it is breaking the law. But I don't give a shit and neither does anyone else. It is like when peo

      --
      Where is the mod rating for "scary"? Also, ...
  2. They're advertising that guy's service, right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They're either thick as a plank or they actually want more defendants to self-represent.

    1. Re:They're advertising that guy's service, right? by causality · · Score: 4, Funny

      They're either thick as a plank or they actually want more defendants to self-represent.

      Considering that they're a pro-copyright group and therefore think we don't yet have enough copyright laws on the books, I'd go with "thick as a plank".

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    2. Re:They're advertising that guy's service, right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're either thick as a plank or they actually want more defendants to self-represent.

      Why not both?

  3. Mind blowing by Kupfernigk · · Score: 4, Funny
    A US corporation sues a US lawyer for not charging enough!

    Under English law, a lawyer merely provides advice which the client is free to make use of or to ignore, and there are plenty of legal self-help books. There is an excellent one for company secretaries which, back in the 90s, saved me thousands in legal bills. Is this not so in the US?

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
    1. Re:Mind blowing by sribe · · Score: 1

      Is this not so in the US?

      Yes.

    2. Re:Mind blowing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its clearly a case of unfair competition! Sue the bastard to hell..Oh, wait..

    3. Re:Mind blowing by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Under English law, a lawyer merely provides advice which the client is free to make use of or to ignore, and there are plenty of legal self-help books.

      The same is true in the US, however states have legal statutes to prevent a person from giving legal advice who is not a lawyer. Depending on how strict the statutes are, this can pose real problems for self-help legal products.

      However, that isn't what this appears to be about. Copyright is a federal matter, and the lawyer is licensed to practice law in the US, so that's not where the complaint seems to be coming from.

      Apparently several of the motions always fail, but USCG still must respond to them or they lose automatically. This costs USCG and, to a lesser extent, the courts, more money than is necessary. However, I don't see how a lawyer can be sued for advising clients to file a motion that is ultimately unsuccessful, even if he advises thousands of such clients to do so. He never filed any motions, he simply told the people how and suggested they do so. I can't see how he could possibly construed as responsible for the motions.

      I would suggest the USCG's bulk litigation practices are the ones that are actually wasting the court's time and money, since the majority of them are completely frivolous and must be responded to by each individual involved.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    4. Re:Mind blowing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Two words: price fixing. If the Bar supports this, hit it with some antitrust action...

    5. Re:Mind blowing by IICV · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Apparently several of the motions always fail, but USCG still must respond to them or they lose automatically. This costs USCG and, to a lesser extent, the courts, more money than is necessary.

      But I was under the impression that real lawyers do shit like that all the time? I mean, one of the fundamental ideas of game theory is that you should attempt to maximize your opponent's ability to lose, while maximizing your ability to win - and if we're not supposed to game the system like that, why is it even possible?

      This really seems to boil down to the USCG saying "No fair! He's teaching the other guys the rules!"

    6. Re:Mind blowing by dreampod · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Absolutely correct. This is standard operating procedure for lawyers to file for dismisal and a protective order even when they don't expect it to succeed, simply because it preserves routes for appeal and there is the possibility the opposing lawyer will screw up and it will get through. That said, one of the three claims his forms make which is that the district overseeing the legal action does not have personal jurisdiction is valid for most potential purchasers and should have the suit dismissed and forced to be refilled in the appropriate venue (which typically isn't as friendly to this sort of business as the venues chosen by the litigants).

  4. Frivolous by chemicaldave · · Score: 1

    Any reasonable judge would throw this out. Lets hope he/she does.

    1. Re:Frivolous by nurb432 · · Score: 1

      Are there any left? I guess we will see.

      --
      ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    2. Re:Frivolous by Myopic · · Score: 3, Funny

      do you even know what the claims of the suit are? I read the article but it didn't say, and I can't imagine what legally plausible claims could be made in this kind of situation. But, I can certainly imagine that there are plausible claims that I can't imagine.

    3. Re:Frivolous by MickyTheIdiot · · Score: 1

      Well.. as it seems that these days lawyers fall in at least one of these categories: 1) blatantly pro-corporation or 2) on the take.

      The more money you have on hand the more justice you get. It's a travesty.

  5. Erm...what? by Mouldy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, according to these USCG clowns, providing a working defence to the opposition is illegal?

    1. Re:Erm...what? by Kazymyr · · Score: 1

      It is a mere application of the FUD principle.

      --
      I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet -Stanislaw Lem
    2. Re:Erm...what? by tomhudson · · Score: 5, Interesting
      That's the problem - one of the defenses did work. The "lack of personal standing."

      You can't sue for lost revenue if you're not the copyright holder. Further, you can't sue for lost revenue if you can't prove that, you know, you actually lost revenue.

      Which, come to think of it, is a problem with their current suit - they can't prove they lost revenue because of a successful defense against their tactics, because a successful defense means they weren't entitled to the MOH-NEE!.

      Then again, too many lawyers have this sense of personal entitlement. Just look at your politi-critters.

      Easy prediction - within the next decade, someone will successfully sue for the right of non-lawyers to represent people in court, on the following basis:

      1. Religious freedom guarantees. Several religious sects take the "no doctor of the law shall enter into the kingdom" literally, and as an injunction against being represented by lawyers. To allow ONLY them a religious exemption is unconstitutional, as it discriminates against non-believers (reverse discrimination);
      2. Full and complete defense: Money, money, money. An interested, motivated party who is not a lawyer may be better able, in some cases, to provide a full and complete defense, than ANY paid lawyer, no matter what the price; but on top of that, most people simply can't AFFORD the cost of "professional" services;
      3. Freedom of association: Some countries have a constitutional guarantee of freedom of association. The requirement to "associate" your legal case with a lawyer to represent you is contrary to such guarantees;
      4. Freedom of political expression: Insisting on a non-lawyer is certainly an act of political speech; more so than currently-protected political expressions such as flag-burning;

      As in this case, you don't need all 4 to be valid - any one succeeding will do.

      -- Barbie

    3. Re:Erm...what? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, that would be ludicrous. The USCG is suing Syfert for costing them money which is not criminal but a civil matter. Unfortunately, you can sue for anything. The USCG has shown that they are a litigious group. Really this doesn't surprise me at all.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    4. Re:Erm...what? by hedwards · · Score: 1

      So, if they're politi-critters, does that mean that we have to be very careful not to have any committee meetings going after midnight? I'd hate to think that something bad would happen were they to have a snack.

    5. Re:Erm...what? by hedwards · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, but suing for something that's known to be frivolous can get you slapped for vexatious litigation in some jurisdictions. And ultimately when they lose the suit, which they will, they'll almost certainly have to pay his fees and probably a bit more.

    6. Re:Erm...what? by gnasher719 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, that would be ludicrous. The USCG is suing Syfert for costing them money which is not criminal but a civil matter. Unfortunately, you can sue for anything. The USCG has shown that they are a litigious group. Really this doesn't surprise me at all.

      Their problem is that by costing them money, Syfert hasn't actually done anything wrong. It is perfectly legal for Syfert to sell these self-help booklets; even if it is not legal, they have no standing to sue. Only a buyer who let's say paid $20 and got rubbish advice would have standing to sue for that. The cost to them is not caused by Syfert, it is caused by the defendants defending themselves, and that is just what you have to expect when you sue someone; they will try to defend themselves. Perfectly legal and expected.

    7. Re:Erm...what? by advocate_one · · Score: 1

      he wasn't representing them, therefore he lacks attorney client privilege and can be sued for aiding and abetting

      --
      Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
    8. Re:Erm...what? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, that would be ludicrous. The USCG is suing Syfert for costing them money which is not criminal but a civil matter. Unfortunately, you can sue for anything. The USCG has shown that they are a litigious group. Really this doesn't surprise me at all.

      Their problem is that by costing them money, Syfert hasn't actually done anything wrong. It is perfectly legal for Syfert to sell these self-help booklets; even if it is not legal, they have no standing to sue. Only a buyer who let's say paid $20 and got rubbish advice would have standing to sue for that. The cost to them is not caused by Syfert, it is caused by the defendants defending themselves, and that is just what you have to expect when you sue someone; they will try to defend themselves. Perfectly legal and expected.

      Maybe they're hoping he'll just fold, not want to spend the time and money to defend himself (you know, like all the other victims.) Can it be that they believe they are that scary? To an attorney?

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    9. Re:Erm...what? by Zibri · · Score: 2, Funny

      And then they can sue him again for the money they lost in this litigation. Profit loop!

    10. Re:Erm...what? by snowgirl · · Score: 2, Informative

      I recall reading at one point that Arizona allows non-lawyers to represent other people in their state.

      It's more of a "you get what you pay for", or "buyer beware" state than anywhere else...

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    11. Re:Erm...what? by Patch86 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Maybe they're hoping he'll just fold, not want to spend the time and money to defend himself (you know, like all the other victims.) Can it be that they believe they are that scary? To an attorney?

      Not just an attorney. An attorney who's own modus operandi is to persuade people to defend themselves against frivolous litigation by selling them affordable self-help packs.

      I really struggle to believe that any collection of even moderately intelligent people could be that stupid.

    12. Re:Erm...what? by Bender0x7D1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Now, I am not a lawyer, but it seems that all of your points are flawed due to one fact: You are allowed to represent yourself.

      • No religious exemption needed. If you don't want a lawyer, do it yourself.
      • You can hire anyone you want to testify or be your administrative assistant. They can't act in the courtroom as a lawyer or associate, but they can hand you notes on what to do/say if needed.
      • No association required if you represent yourself.
      • Assuming you aren't a lawyer, you have a non-lawyer representing you.

      Also, as a side note, don't try turning a courtroom into a political statement. If you annoy the judge, they can fine you or imprison you for contempt of court.

      --
      Reading code is like reading the dictionary - you have to read half of it before you can go back and understand it.
    13. Re:Erm...what? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

      Vexatious litigation is not normally applied for a single action. If they repeatedly sue Syfert after losing or the case being dismissed then the court could apply that action.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    14. Re:Erm...what? by Capt.+Skinny · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The USCG doesn't care whether Syfert folds, they just want to discourage other attorneys from offering the same type of legal assistance. Despite the outcome of this suit, the next guy who thinks about offering $20 self-representation instruction packets will have one more cost to consider when assessing the profitability of that product -- the cost and hassle of being sued (successfully or not) by the USCG.

    15. Re:Erm...what? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2, Informative

      Again, it's not a matter of "legal" or "illegal". You can use your neighbor if their dog peed on the street in front of your house. Like this lawsuit, the chance of you winning is slim, but that doesn't mean you can't file suit. The court will most likely dismiss the suit and politely ask you to resolve any disputes without court intervention. However if you repeatedly sue your neighbor for minor things, the court will not like it. Syfert being a lawyer will probably get this dismissed quickly. He also can counter-sue claiming tortious interference.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    16. Re:Erm...what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so, the people who make the "worst case scenario" books can be sued for aiding and abetting if anyone uses the knowledge gained from their books to do things like break into a car?

      interesting point- breaking into a car is illegal; defending yourself in the court of law is perfectly legal.

    17. Re:Erm...what? by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's the problem - one of the defenses did work. The "lack of personal standing." You can't sue for lost revenue if you're not the copyright holder.

      No, the defense that worked is lack of personal jurisdiction, not lack of standing. Courts in a state only have power over people who reside in the state, or have a certain level of contact with the state, or who consent to jurisdiction. Basically what the successful defendants are doing is telling the court, "Hey, you are a court of state X. I live in state Y and have no contacts with state X, so you aren't the right court for this", the the court is agreeing.

      Note that this doesn't end things. The plaintiff simply has to refile in the defendant's home state (or find some other state that the defendant has sufficient contacts with).

      You have to be careful when raising the lack of personal jurisdiction defense, because generally responding to a lawsuit in a given court is taken as conceding personal jurisdiction of that court. However, you can make what is called a "limited appearance", where you respond solely to raise the issue of personal jurisdiction.

      Further, you can't sue for lost revenue if you can't prove that, you know, you actually lost revenue.

      You can sue for statutory damages.

    18. Re:Erm...what? by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      That's the problem - one of the defenses did work. The "lack of personal standing."

      You can't sue for lost revenue if you're not the copyright holder. Further, you can't sue for lost revenue if you can't prove that, you know, you actually lost revenue.

      Not so. For the first, you can have the copyright holder assign his or her rights to you, such that you are the "holder". Second, you can sue for statutory damages and thus don't need to prove lost revenue.

      Which, come to think of it, is a problem with their current suit - they can't prove they lost revenue because of a successful defense against their tactics, because a successful defense means they weren't entitled to the MOH-NEE!.

      Having not seen their actual complaint, I'd bet it has more to do with a claim that this guy's self-representation packet encourages defendants to file frivolous time-wasting motions... Not that they lost any case on the merits.

      Easy prediction - within the next decade, someone will successfully sue for the right of non-lawyers to represent people in court, on the following basis:

      1. Religious freedom guarantees. Several religious sects take the "no doctor of the law shall enter into the kingdom" literally, and as an injunction against being represented by lawyers. To allow ONLY them a religious exemption is unconstitutional, as it discriminates against non-believers (reverse discrimination);
      2. Full and complete defense: Money, money, money. An interested, motivated party who is not a lawyer may be better able, in some cases, to provide a full and complete defense, than ANY paid lawyer, no matter what the price; but on top of that, most people simply can't AFFORD the cost of "professional" services;
      3. Freedom of association: Some countries have a constitutional guarantee of freedom of association. The requirement to "associate" your legal case with a lawyer to represent you is contrary to such guarantees;
      4. Freedom of political expression: Insisting on a non-lawyer is certainly an act of political speech; more so than currently-protected political expressions such as flag-burning;

      As in this case, you don't need all 4 to be valid - any one succeeding will do.

      Easy anti-prediction. These exact arguments have been raised for several hundred years and have always lost, even at the Supreme Court level. Also... really? "Reverse discrimination"? Weren't you just complaining about senses of entitlement?

    19. Re:Erm...what? by causality · · Score: 1

      I recall reading at one point that Arizona allows non-lawyers to represent other people in their state.

      It's more of a "you get what you pay for", or "buyer beware" state than anywhere else...

      Coincidentally they have no income tax. That's feasible when you don't have all the expense of trying to protect adults from their own poor decision-making.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    20. Re:Erm...what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be Politi-Gremlins for the after midnight snack thing (also, don't get them wet...). Politi-Critters have big mouths, throwable quills and travel by rolling...

    21. Re:Erm...what? by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      Funny, About.com disagrees:

      Residents and nonresidents that earn income in Arizona will pay state income tax.

      Which is also backed up by The Arizona Department of Revenue.

      Arizona does actually have an income tax.

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    22. Re:Erm...what? by rtfa-troll · · Score: 1

      Errr. Recently there have been far too many law graduates in the USA and too many of them are searching for work. The only way that they are going to get this is by generating more lawsuits.

      Let's look at this from their point of view; provide free legal handouts; get sued; get the chance to have free practice in a real court get publicity to help with the chance of getting a job; if really lucky manage to get this under some SLAPP provisions and possibly even profit (can lawyers come under that??). Even better, the people who take their actions forward in this way will probably remember the source of the legal advice they got and come back later if the lawsuits are continued. They have no downside since they have no assets.

      I think this has greatly raised the chance of such advice leaflets being available.

      --
      =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
    23. Re:Erm...what? by causality · · Score: 1

      Funny, About.com disagrees:

      Residents and nonresidents that earn income in Arizona will pay state income tax.

      Which is also backed up by The Arizona Department of Revenue.

      Arizona does actually have an income tax.

      Yes, it's hilarious. Can you provide a third reference please?

      Anyway, thanks for the correction.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    24. Re:Erm...what? by Motard · · Score: 1

      These lawyers are working for the copyright holders and are filing in their name.

    25. Re:Erm...what? by tomhudson · · Score: 2, Insightful
      That's irrelevant. The point is that this is an illegitimate restriction on the constitutional right of a person to a full and complete defense, if their only possibility of such a defense rests with a non-lawyer.

      The availability of public defenders also doesn't enter into it. They have a history of not providing a full and complete defense.

      Further, what if you're the plaintiff in a civil case. You should be able to appoint someone else - even a non-lawyer - to act for you.

      Lawyers should have to compete the same as anyone else. Most of them are hacks.

      Also, the ability of the judge to not only be the one pressing the charge of contempt of court, but also the judge, is an example of something that needs to be challenged, since the judge is obviously both an interested party (being the plaintiff) and the judge. A very clear conflict of interest in what is a criminal complaint.

      -- Barbie

    26. Re:Erm...what? by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      These lawyers are working for the copyright holders and are filing in their name.

      If the holders have given them permission, then the lawyers are their agents, and there's no lack of standing issue.

    27. Re:Erm...what? by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      Having not seen their actual complaint, I'd bet it has more to do with a claim that this guy's self-representation packet encourages defendants to file frivolous time-wasting motions... Not that they lost any case on the merits.

      The problem with that theory is that one of the 'frivolous' motions does work. Namely, that you can't sue someone who lives in Florida for copyright infringement in DC.

      I have no idea if there are other motions being filed, but as 'lack of jurisdiction' is something you actually have to file first (Because anything else accepts the court's jurisdiction over you.), I rather doubt it. Anything else, I might be thinking 'Yeah, he's wasting the court's time by encouraging 10+ stupid motions, even if the 11th he says they try works', but here, the one that's working has to, by law, have been the first one tried.

      'frivolous' motions have to be something that lawyers should know would fail. These appear to be working. Even if they did fail a few times, they work in general, and are a perfectly reasonable plan for a lawyer to give advice encouraging people to try. (In fact, I don't know why we'd limit it to him. How many 'lack of jurisdiction' motions happen every year? It's not a frivolous legal maneuver.)

      'doesn't always work' and 'frivolous' aren't the same thing, and 'does work' and 'frivolous' can't possibly be the same thing.

      If anything, it's the damn USCG that's wasting the court's time by constantly filing lawsuits in the wrong jurisdiction and having them kicked out!

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    28. Re:Erm...what? by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      Wiktionary: Funny

      2. strange or unusual, often implying unpleasant

      But then you already knew that, you were just being resentful about the correction. (It's ok, it's standard geek fare)

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    29. Re:Erm...what? by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Having not seen their actual complaint, I'd bet it has more to do with a claim that this guy's self-representation packet encourages defendants to file frivolous time-wasting motions... Not that they lost any case on the merits.

      The problem with that theory is that one of the 'frivolous' motions does work. Namely, that you can't sue someone who lives in Florida for copyright infringement in DC.

      Unless, as you note, they waive the lack of personal jurisdiction.

      'frivolous' motions have to be something that lawyers should know would fail. These appear to be working.

      Like I said, we don't know what's in the complaint. Your argument is based on a conjecture that it's solely the lack of personal jurisdiction motions. I find that unlikely, for the reasons you state - they aren't frivolous. However, there are other motions in the packet, including motions to exclude for example. In many cases, they may not be supported by the local evidentiary rules, and so may be frivolous. Even if not, it still doesn't help that Syfert may be practicing law in a jurisdiction he's not licensed in.

      If anything, it's the damn USCG that's wasting the court's time by constantly filing lawsuits in the wrong jurisdiction and having them kicked out!

      Nope - as you note, the defendant can waive personal jurisdiction. Therefore, filing in the wrong state isn't frivolous. It may be abuse of process, but you'd have a high bar to show that.

    30. Re:Erm...what? by tomhudson · · Score: 1
      The current lawsuit is the USCG suing over losing money because people were successfully opposing their claims.

      "Gee whiz, we should be compensated because we lost!"

      That's not how it works, they know that's not how it works, and if this doesn't meet the "frivolous" standard, then the standard is meaningless and should be stricken.

      That's how I would attack their filing - by asking the court "if this isn't frivolous, please set the bar so we know just how much stupidity and cupidity we CAN get away with."

    31. Re:Erm...what? by Dare+nMc · · Score: 1

      I think you under estimate how wrong they think down loaders are. They expect the same outrage as when the video tape of the guy claiming to be a pimp running a child prostitution ring asked acorn how to best continue running his business, and they proceed to help him incorporate, etc. They honestly think he is helping to protect the equivalent of a child sex jon.

    32. Re:Erm...what? by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      The current lawsuit is the USCG suing over losing money because people were successfully opposing their claims.

      We don't know that, having not seen the complaint. Additionally, it's unlikely to actually be in the complaint, since it's going to be real tough filing a lawsuit that says "we're losing money because people were successfully opposing our claims," Slashdot's wishes notwithstanding.

      That's not how it works, they know that's not how it works, and if this doesn't meet the "frivolous" standard, then the standard is meaningless and should be stricken.

      The "frivolous" standard requires actually reading the complaint to determine if it's frivolous, not reading a bunch of comments on a website from people who don't like the Plaintiff.

      That's how I would attack their filing - by asking the court "if this isn't frivolous, please set the bar so we know just how much stupidity and cupidity we CAN get away with."

      That would probably get you sanctioned and possibly held in contempt. But feel free.

    33. Re:Erm...what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not illegal. Just damaging to the plaintiffs.

    34. Re:Erm...what? by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Yeah right.

      You're not going to discourage other attorneys with this sort of thing. In this case, you are talking about the people that are the LEAST LIKELY to be intimidated by a legal shakedown. These are people that can fight for themselves and know how to do it too. They are not a weak and easy target that is ignorant of their rights, unable to handle themselves in a court of law, and find a few thousand dollars to be a crippling number.

      This is the schoolyard bully picking a fight with real street thugs.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    35. Re:Erm...what? by calidoscope · · Score: 1

      The availability of public defenders also doesn't enter into it. They have a history of not providing a full and complete defense.

      FWIW, public defenders are usually for criminal trials only, which does seem to violate "Equal protection under the law".

      --
      A Shadeless room is a brighter room.
    36. Re:Erm...what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You are allowed to represent yourself."

      Not. True.

      Criminal cases? Yes.
      Civil? No. At least not in the state I'm in.

    37. Re:Erm...what? by Achra · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Mod parent up, this is an important point and the crux of what is going on in this article. The points of note are:

      1) All courts of law foremost hate to have to make a ruling. If they have a valid excuse to not rule on a case, then they will seize it. In fact, the first hurdle to get over when you are plaintiff in a case is proving the court you have selected has jurisdiction. In this circumstance, since the court the copyright holders have chosen does not have jurisdiction in this matter, all it really takes is the defendant to come forward and say "Your honor, I live in a completely different state" for the judge to throw this out of his courtroom.

      2) Now, an attorney has decided to author a self-help pamphlet and sell it (constituting paid legal advice). This document is effectively a howto on how to make a limited appearance in whatever specific court these suits are being filed in, and file a motion to dismiss based on lack of jurisdiction.

      3) The legal team for the plaintiffs has decided that the legal advice of this attorney is adversely effecting their case, and they would like to figure out how to make him stop. In the legal world, the way you make someone stop doing something is you take them to court.

      I think that this is actually a rather interesting case, because depending on the state, there may or may not be specific laws governing the sale of self-help pamphlets.. The worst that could happen for this attorney is that the judge could rule that he is representing all of these defendants.. and make him enter all of these cases that he has offered advice in... lol. I doubt that would happen, but really, it depends on the state.

      --
      Each processor would proceed sequentially as if it had been better for them not to rise against Saul.
    38. Re:Erm...what? by nomadic · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You can hire anyone you want to testify or be your administrative assistant. They can't act in the courtroom as a lawyer or associate, but they can hand you notes on what to do/say if needed.

      Your other points are valid but this one I don't think would work; telling you what you should say in court is generally considered giving legal advice.

    39. Re:Erm...what? by MysteriousPreacher · · Score: 1

      That would be consistent with one the FACT adverts that used to precede movies in the UK. It was the one that informed us that movie piracy supported criminals - and even had a guy, presumably a pirate, who was a half naked man with glowing eyes and a branding iron. If that's a pirate then that would explain some of the stranger conversations I've had online.

      --
      -- Using the preview button since 2005
    40. Re:Erm...what? by fishexe · · Score: 1

      The USCG doesn't care whether Syfert folds, they just want to discourage other attorneys from offering the same type of legal assistance. Despite the outcome of this suit, the next guy who thinks about offering $20 self-representation instruction packets will have one more cost to consider when assessing the profitability of that product -- the cost and hassle of being sued (successfully or not) by the USCG.

      In that case, this should be dismissed under anti-SLAPP statutes, since what you described is the textbook definition of a SLAPP.

      --
      "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
    41. Re:Erm...what? by fishexe · · Score: 1

      You can use your neighbor if their dog peed on the street in front of your house.

      If I can use my neighbor, why can't I own a Canadian?

      --
      "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
    42. Re:Erm...what? by fishexe · · Score: 1

      Their problem is that by costing them money, Syfert hasn't actually done anything wrong. It is perfectly legal for Syfert to sell these self-help booklets; even if it is not legal, they have no standing to sue....

      Maybe they're hoping he'll just fold, not want to spend the time and money to defend himself (you know, like all the other victims.) Can it be that they believe they are that scary? To an attorney?

      Basically, they're hoping he went to a crappy law school. Anyone who went to a decent law school will know that they will win dismissal for lack of standing (or alternatively, failure to state a claim) right off the bat, and will file a motion to dismiss (which takes very little time and money, it's only the very first stage of a lawsuit) and stick to their guns. So they're hoping not only that he will be intimidated, but that he will be ignorant enough to still be intimidated even though he is in a stronger position.

      --
      "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
    43. Re:Erm...what? by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      We don't know that, having not seen the complaint. Additionally, it's unlikely to actually be in the complaint, since it's going to be real tough filing a lawsuit that says "we're losing money because people were successfully opposing our claims," Slashdot's wishes notwithstanding.

      I know that no one RTFA here, but the complaint is embedded on this page, so if you haven't read it, it's your own fault.

      But, basically, the complaint does say pretty much what people here think. In essence, USCG wants money because people took another lawyer's advice that was not illegal. Regardless of whether that advice wasted court time or not, the USCG doesn't have a right to money from that lawyer. From his client, maybe, but once you allow lawyers to sue other lawyers who oppose them, the whole system breaks down.

    44. Re:Erm...what? by mysidia · · Score: 2, Informative

      Reading the description of the forms offered for sale here

      He does some CYA, it states, No warranty is made as to the content of these documents. Graham W. Syfert is not acting as your attorney. ; Pursuant to rules of ethics, no assistance can be given in filling out these forms, unless a separate contract with the signature of an attorney and the client exists.

      WARNING - LEGAL FORMS ARE NO SUBSTITUTE FOR THE EXPERIENCE AND ADVICE OF COUNSEL

      Purchase of these forms is not intended to create an attorney client relationship, and by using these forms, no attorney-client relationship will be formed. Instead, you are representing yourself in any legal matter you undertake through these forms.

    45. Re:Erm...what? by mdmkolbe · · Score: 1

      Several religious sects take the "no doctor of the law shall enter into the kingdom" literally

      Which religion is that from? I don't recognize it and I'm not finding anything on google (I probably just have the wrong keywords).

    46. Re:Erm...what? by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      >I know that no one RTFA here, but the complaint is embedded on this page, so if you haven't read it, it's your own fault.

      Thanks, hadn't seen that.

      But, basically, the complaint does say pretty much what people here think. In essence, USCG wants money because people took another lawyer's advice that was not illegal.

      No, it doesn't. The complaint says that the defendants were filing procedurally invalid motions, drafted with the aid of Syfert. His response of "I'm not in the jurisdiction," isn't going to help - he did establish minimum contacts with the jurisdiction, through his sale of documents to be filed there.

      Regardless of whether that advice wasted court time or not, the USCG doesn't have a right to money from that lawyer.

      Actually, I think there's a strong case that they do.

      From his client, maybe, but once you allow lawyers to sue other lawyers who oppose them, the whole system breaks down.

      So, wait - he is "another lawyer oppos[ing] them"? But here, his whole defense was that he was unrelated third party. Which is it?

    47. Re:Erm...what? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Their problem is that by costing them money, Syfert hasn't actually done anything wrong. It is perfectly legal for Syfert to sell these self-help booklets; even if it is not legal, they have no standing to sue....

      Maybe they're hoping he'll just fold, not want to spend the time and money to defend himself (you know, like all the other victims.) Can it be that they believe they are that scary? To an attorney?

      Basically, they're hoping he went to a crappy law school. Anyone who went to a decent law school will know that they will win dismissal for lack of standing (or alternatively, failure to state a claim) right off the bat, and will file a motion to dismiss (which takes very little time and money, it's only the very first stage of a lawsuit) and stick to their guns. So they're hoping not only that he will be intimidated, but that he will be ignorant enough to still be intimidated even though he is in a stronger position.

      Well ... let's hope he reads Slashdot then.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    48. Re:Erm...what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah... that makes a lot of sense to pursue that type of thing against an attorney selling a form for a motion to quash, and form for order to protect identity, self-described as:

      The forms were designed for self-help defendants (pro se) to file on their own behalf in lawsuits where their internet service provider contacted them, notifying them of a subpoena seeking their identity in copyright litigation. (e.g. Far Cry, Hurt Locker).

      As if such an attorney doesn't already have forms for motion to dismiss for lack of action he could file in his sleep

    49. Re:Erm...what? by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      I know that no one RTFA here, but the complaint is embedded on this page, so if you haven't read it, it's your own fault.

      Oh, and, that's not the linked article. Don't blame me for not following nested links to their end.

    50. Re:Erm...what? by DavidTC · · Score: 2, Informative

      As a post down the way pointed out, we can read the disposition, which I didn't see earlier. (Stupid Noscript.)

      Reading it, it appears they have some points, but a lot of their arguments are bogus.

      In random order, in 1 they're complaining that the forms are defective because they're filed with the court, not served to the opposing consul. Which would be a fair complaint if those people actually had legal consul, but the courts tend to be fairly lax, procedure-wise, with people who have been sued and defend themselves. In fact, the law says what consul should do, not what defendants without consul should do.

      Their complaint is, frankly, absurd, and they're attempting to make 'consulted with a lawyer for legal advice' into 'has a lawyer'. Just because lawyers don't like to give legal advice to non-clients doesn't mean they can't.

      3 is equally dumb. They correctly point out that the motions to squash the subpoena is incorrect, but then admit all but one of those motions gave them the information they were looking for...which advances their case and saves them time and money. They can hardly complain about that.

      4 is idiotic in it's own way, in that they apparently cite cases deciding a court has jurisdiction for Doe subpoenas...but what that actually demonstrates is that it's a debatable legal point. Um, duh. The motion may fail, but that doesn't make it frivolous.

      Their only legit complaint is 2, where apparently the wrong part of the law is cited. Which, again, happens all the time and is a mistake...but isn't 'frivolous'.

      I guess they're trying to make the point that he 'keeps' making such a claim, but they'd have to demonstrate that he knew such a claim was bogus and didn't fix it in things he sold. Giving people the same piece of legal advice over the years, and then discovering it's wrong, is not magically 'frivolous' if those people acted on the advice and were shot down.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    51. Re:Erm...what? by causality · · Score: 1

      Wiktionary: Funny

      2. strange or unusual, often implying unpleasant

      But then you already knew that, you were just being resentful about the correction. (It's ok, it's standard geek fare)

      Actually I found the correction a tad overzealous, though this was skillfully veiled. That's also standard geek fare, well except for the skillfully veiled part. While your assumption concerning the character of a complete stranger is noted, no resentment is required to make that point. I used humor instead.

      My thanks was genuine, incidentally. It does not benefit me to hang onto wrong notions.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    52. Re:Erm...what? by geezer+nerd · · Score: 1

      When I saw the headline for this posting I wondered what the Coast Guard was doing suing a copyright lawyer. Acronyms are becoming more and more overloaded as time goes by.

    53. Re:Erm...what? by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      They'll care if the result is some combination of:
        1. Attorney's fees awarded to the defendant.
        2. Sanctions for attempting to prevent defendants in other suits from taking advantage of their constitutional right to legal counsel.
        3. A successful countersuit by Syfert.

      Let's hope the judge they end up with sees the situation for what it is.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    54. Re:Erm...what? by Motard · · Score: 1

      The standing issue centers on the defendent. Not the plaintiff.

    55. Re:Erm...what? by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      Respectfully, I think you're confusing "standing" and "personal jurisdiction".

    56. Re:Erm...what? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      I really struggle to believe that any collection of even moderately intelligent people could be that stupid.

      I doubt they care. The consequences to them are nil, so win or lose it costs them nothing. Although, it will be interesting to see if they (or the RIAA, or some other "trade representatives") decide to go after defense attorneys.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    57. Re:Erm...what? by BitterOak · · Score: 1

      Syfert hasn't actually done anything wrong. It is perfectly legal for Syfert to sell these self-help booklets; even if it is not legal, they have no standing to sue. Only a buyer who let's say paid $20 and got rubbish advice would have standing to sue for that.

      That's not necessarily true. Third parties can sue for tortuous interference if one party provides another party with assistance in committing civil infractions. Now, defense attorneys have immunity from such claims when providing legal advice for providing a defense. So the question is, is this lawyer who is selling these instruction books really their attorney? I think that's what's at issue here.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    58. Re:Erm...what? by russotto · · Score: 1

      It is perfectly legal for Syfert to sell these self-help booklets; even if it is not legal, they have no standing to sue.

      They aren't actually suing him. They are attempting to have him sanctioned, en passant, as part of their lawsuit against the defendants. Syfert, in his response, claims such sanctions are forbidden against a "non party attorney". Which is probably why they kept calling him and giving him updates about the various motions; they were trying to get him to say something which they could use to claim he was actually a party to the proceedings.

    59. Re:Erm...what? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I can't hire an unlicensed electrician to work on my wiring. I may be able to work on it myself (or not, depending on the work and the location), but I can't go out and hire a worker, pay them money, and have them do so much as replace a broken light switch unless they are licensed to do so. The theory is that unlicensed people are too likely to cause harm to themselves or the person who hired them.

      The same theory is applied to lawyers. If they screw up in court, the person who hired them will come to harm. As such, such important jobs have been deemed to require licenses. Whether correct or incorrect, it is normal practice in a number of professions (doctors, engineers, etc.) and lawyering wasn't singled out as the one and only one place to limit who you can associate with or how you express yourself.

    60. Re:Erm...what? by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      Actually I found the correction a tad overzealous...

      The argument as presented offended my personal beliefs. The argument being ambiguously valid, I decided to see rather how sound it was. Finding that the premise was false allowed me to attack the argument appropriately.

      While a true libertarian environment would collect as few taxes as possible, no one ever actually does so, because the people in power like money... so the amount of money collected in taxes has almost nothing to do with the pressure to collect it...

      That's also standard geek fare, well except for the skillfully veiled part.

      I am after all female, and since we're later on the topic of stereotypes, we are typically raised to have more social tact then men.

      While your assumption concerning the character of a complete stranger is noted, no resentment is required to make that point. I used humor instead.

      My thanks was genuine, incidentally. It does not benefit me to hang onto wrong notions.

      The resentment and thankfulness are not mutually exclusive. Geeks like to be right (I assume you're a geek, because we're on slashdot.) It is disappointing to be found wrong, and we take it somewhat personally.

      Of course, I could just be projecting, due to an assumption of similarity between us... I'll give you that.

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    61. Re:Erm...what? by tomhudson · · Score: 1
      Nice try, but a totally invalid argument.

      You have no constitutionally-protected right to do electrical work yourself, drive a car, or whatever - you DO have both a constitutional right and a right in equity to representation as well as freedom of expression, and limiting your choice of representation infringes on your ability to exercise that right.

      While I can handle myself in a court pro se, someone else may not be able to. For all practical purposes, they cannot do the pro se thing, so they are forced to go without adequate representation. They do not, de facto, enjoy equal protection under the law, based on their inability, their financial situation, their lack of experience, and the laws' refusal to allow them to pick a non-lawyer to speak for them.

      And that is unconstitutional, as it deprives them of the full exercise of their due process rights. It makes some people "more equal" before the law than them.

      Also, if someone can represent themselves without any license, why should they not also be allowed to do the same for others. Nothing changes in the equation - in both cases, you have a non-lawyer practicing law. It could even be the exact same type of case. Or even two parties on the same side in the same case. Why can't one of them say "I'm letting her do the talking for both of us"?

      -- Barbie

    62. Re:Erm...what? by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      The USCG doesn't care whether Syfert folds, they just want to discourage other attorneys from offering the same type of legal assistance.

      In that case, they ought to just host a torrent and run a tracker for this paperwork packet. Or just include the whole thing with their threat letters. There goes your market, Syfert.

      ;-)

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    63. Re:Erm...what? by nabsltd · · Score: 1

      Regardless of whether that advice wasted court time or not, the USCG doesn't have a right to money from that lawyer.

      Actually, I think there's a strong case that they do.

      Again, any "advice" Syfert gave in the form of the package he sold is something that the defendant needs to decide for themselves about. If the steps are wrong in some way, the only possible flows of compensation are from Syfert to the court (in the form of some sort of sanction, if they feel it was a willful attempt to cause more work for the court), from Syfert to the purchaser (as something like malpractice), or from the purchaser to USCG (for "intentionally" causing them to spend money answering the motion, which is a huge stretch).

      If you allow any recompense from Syfert to USCG, then anyone in any way who is remotely related to causing a lawyer more "work" will have precedent for having to "pay" for that. For example, an expert witness for the other side, or anyone who files an amicus brief could be sent a bill.

      You'll also note that the USCG wants to have their cake and eat it too, in that they want the motions filed by defendants to be discussed with them first, but intentionally set up their system so they can avoid notifying the defendants for as much as possible until it is too late.

      So, wait - he is "another lawyer oppos[ing] them"? But here, his whole defense was that he was unrelated third party. Which is it?

      If I am a lawyer, any other lawyer who disagrees with me is "opposing me". It doesn't matter if it's specifically in my case. For example, if some lawyer used an argument in matters unrelated to me, but that argument can be used to hurt my current case (e.g., some precedent), I should not be able to sue them successfully, yet this case could set the precedent for that.

    64. Re:Erm...what? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Nice try, but a totally invalid argument.

      Just because you claim something to be invalid does not make it so. So assertions that your opinion of what is an isn't a valid argument is a pompous and egotistical assertion before anyone's even bothered to read whatever drivel follows.

      You have no constitutionally-protected right to do electrical work yourself, drive a car, or whatever - you DO have both a constitutional right and a right in equity to representation as well as freedom of expression, and limiting your choice of representation infringes on your ability to exercise that right.

      A court is not a place of "expression." There is no opinion or creativity in court. There are facts. There are procedures for expressing those facts. There is no right to representation by whomever you wish. Just as the right to travel doesn't mean Boeing must, by law, provide you with an airplane. Nor is simple ownership of a plane sufficient to allow you to operate it in any manner you wish. All rights - every one of them - has some limitations. You seem to assert that the limitations are what you wish them to be and nothing else. I disagree with your opinion. Apparently, your only response to that is a long winded "nuh uh, my opinion is worth more than yours so I'm right and you're wrong. Neener neener."

      Also, if someone can represent themselves without any license, why should they not also be allowed to do the same for others.

      For the same reason why in many places you can be unlicensed and do your own electrical work, but not work for others doing the exact same thing for a fee. Or did you not even read what I wrote before. I addressed that specific point. And you either ignored it for convenience in pretending I never said it, or you are too stupid to understand.

      Lay people are prevented from doing electrical work for a profession because it puts the people they work for at risk. Substitute "legal" for "electrical" and see if you can still understand that sentence. I know since it doesn't agree with your unfounded opinion that it will make your head hurt, so feel free to read it a few more times.

      Now, whether you can agree the base argument of the "other side" is correct, at least you can understand it and not claim it's a baseless usurpation of rights. In fact, it's there to guarantee them. You have the right to Due Process, and since a lay person can't (by legal definition, not practical knowledge) protect those as well as a trained professional, you are protected from being represented by someone that claims some proficiency they do not have(again, by legal definition, not practical definition).

    65. Re:Erm...what? by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Nice try, but a totally invalid argument. Just because you claim something to be invalid does not make it so. So assertions that your opinion of what is an isn't a valid argument is a pompous and egotistical assertion before anyone's even bothered to read whatever drivel follows.

      So show me where it says you have a constitutional right to hire unlicensed electricians.

      ... or stop being such a pompous airbab.

    66. Re:Erm...what? by tqk · · Score: 1

      If I can use my neighbor, why can't I own a Canadian?

      You can! Depends on the Canadian, and what your offer is. What do you expect my duties to be, master?

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    67. Re:Erm...what? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      The current lawsuit is the USCG suing over losing money because people were successfully opposing their claims.

      No it's because the defendants to USCG filings were filing various motions that the USCG had to spend time - and therefore money - responding to.

    68. Re:Erm...what? by sexybomber · · Score: 1

      Well ... let's hope he reads Slashdot then.

      Or has NYCL on speed-dial. That dude's gangsta.

    69. Re:Erm...what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >I can't hire an unlicensed electrician to work on my wiring.

      Sure you can. It's not smart. It might be illegal, but you can do it.

    70. Re:Erm...what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, how much for the self-help package for self-help package sellers?

    71. Re:Erm...what? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I can show you where you are guaranteed a right to due process. And I can point you to hundreds of years of legal precedent that indicates a lay person is not able to give proper representation. As such, the right to due process can only be satisfied if you have a lawyer on your side (thus the compulsion to provide one for free for criminal cases).

      Yes, I know you think your uninformed lay opinion is more important and correct than hundreds of years of expert opinions on the matter. But you are the only one.

    72. Re:Erm...what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, along with that cost comes invaluable advertising that would probably cost more than he'll spend defending this suit. We might actually see MORE $20 packets popping up as a result of this, all pointed at firms that are known to be overlylitigious in the hopes that there will be free advertising.

    73. Re:Erm...what? by causality · · Score: 1

      I am after all female, and since we're later on the topic of stereotypes, we are typically raised to have more social tact then men.

      I deliberately avoided bringing that one up since it's usually a great way to paint oneself into a corner... having said that... I'd say it has more to do with the use of cunning and subtlety and maybe even manipulation to get what you want, rather than upbringing. Do that skillfully and the subject will think that doing what you happen to want was his own idea. In many relationships the man only thinks he wears the pants because he's allowed to. I'll go ahead and say a lot of men aren't so bright in this way, and the biggest vulnerability that makes them so easy and tempting to manipulate is they only care about their pleasure. I doubt I need to say much more about that.

      If you read much about evolutionary psychology you'd get the impression that this is as inborn as men's superior physical strength and a direct counterpart to it. That is, it's just another kind of strength. I suppose the upbringing or "tact" part concerns how ruthless you are about it, but that'd be a concern of people close to you and not so much casual strangers on Internet forums.

      For example, knowingly or not you did bait me into (falsely) looking resentful. I knowingly baited you into judging the character of a stranger in response. I figured you could appreciate that.

      The resentment and thankfulness are not mutually exclusive. Geeks like to be right (I assume you're a geek, because we're on slashdot.) It is disappointing to be found wrong, and we take it somewhat personally.

      Being resentful and spiteful would only harm my quality of life while doing nothing to anyone else. Also, at least for me, being both resentful and thankful for the same single act would be a form of neurosis, in the classical sense of one stimulus evoking two different responses. I overcome this with two things.

      One, it's hardly the first time I've been wrong about something. If you never make mistakes there's a good chance you're not making anything at all. I accept that as the self-evident truth that it is. My only concern there is to never get so stuck in my ways that I can't admit when it's time to reverse course, as that is a glaring character weakness I don't wish to have.

      Two, I'm hardly perfect (not by a long shot) but if not for people who point out my flaws and faults I'd be even more imperfect still. They're doing me a service even if they get some petty indulgence from providing it. How petty and condescending they wish to be is their problem; worrying about that would interfere with understanding why I was wrong.

      What is the disappointment at having been found wrong? Is it learning something new? Is it losing a false notion? I don't think so. I think it's feeling that you lost a point in some game of oneupsmanship, a feeling taught by example in media, family, school, pretty much everywhere. I don't see how that petty concern is compatible with a genuine desire to better oneself.

      While I was content discussing copyright, I want to tell you that you've provided some interesting discussion here. For a moment I wondered if this would try to degrade into a pissing contest. It's refreshing to see we can do better than that.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    74. Re:Erm...what? by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      The current lawsuit is the USCG suing over losing money because people were successfully opposing their claims.

      No it's because the defendants to USCG filings were filing various motions that the USCG had to spend time - and therefore money - responding to.

      Think about it. If the people opposing their claims had failed, USCG would have sued them instead.

      -- Barbie

    75. Re:Erm...what? by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      And I can point you to hundreds of years of legal precedent that indicates a lay person is not able to give proper representation

      Wrong on two points:

      1. Precedents aren't law - just precedents. Every law that's been overturned has had precedent on its' side, from slavery to abortion to anti-gay-marriage. Precedent (or jurisprudence) has to yield to constitutional rights every time.
      2. The denial of the representation of your choice is unconstitutional in that it violates your right to due process, because it requires you to make a less than complete defense in many cases.

      -- Barbie

    76. Re:Erm...what? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      The current lawsuit is the USCG suing over losing money because people were successfully opposing their claims.

      No it's because the defendants to USCG filings were filing various motions that the USCG had to spend time - and therefore money - responding to.

      Think about it. If the people opposing their claims had failed, USCG would have sued them instead.

      -- Barbie

      The people being sued by USCG didn't successfully defend the case brought by the USCG, according to TFA they filed a bunch of motions that meant the USCG either had to drop the original case or respond - at the cost of time and money, which appears to be what they are suing for - to all the additional motions. Though i suppose that if the USCG did indeed drop the case in light of the motions filed that could be interpreted as a successful defense.

    77. Re:Erm...what? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Precedents aren't law

      Precedents have the weight/force of law.

      The denial of the representation of your choice is unconstitutional in that it violates your right to due process, because it requires you to make a less than complete defense in many cases.

      You should have a stand-up routine. Forcing someone to take competent representation violates their right to violate their own rights. The sad thing is you actually believe that.

    78. Re:Erm...what? by tomhudson · · Score: 1
      Precedents do not have the force of statute. The Constitution overrides all precedents, as I pointed out. This is why the US has a Constitution - so that, when precedent and the Constitution conflict, precedent yields.

      As I pointed out, this was the case with slavery and abortion, and is currently the case in several states wrt same-sex marriage. Precedent ("tradition") simply does not have the force of law when the statues (law) disagrees.

      Also, you are purposefully being thick-skulled when you pretend not to understand that most people simply cannot afford to pay a lawyer, so they are denied competent representation if they cannot have a person who is skilled at arguing a case, but not a lawyer, to represent them.

      The precedent for THAT, since you think that precedent should over-ride statute, is that people have always been entitle to argue their own cases.

      As someone who not only has successfully argued civil and criminal cases, but routinely dispenses legal advice for free, etc., I find your remarks uninformed at best, trite at worst, and boorish in either case.

      Go spend 1,000 or more hours in court, get some REAL experience, then come back and argue.

      And yes, I anticipate that one day I will be asked to present this argument in court, that people have the legal right to use a non-lawyer to represent them if they so choose. I'm looking forward to it.

      -- Barbie

    79. Re:Erm...what? by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      While I was content discussing copyright, I want to tell you that you've provided some interesting discussion here. For a moment I wondered if this would try to degrade into a pissing contest. It's refreshing to see we can do better than that.

      Is it weird of me to describe our exchange as "sexy" lol

      I'd say it has more to do with the use of cunning and subtlety and maybe even manipulation to get what you want, rather than upbringing.

      The problem with such assumptions is that it is difficult to really understand what is truly inborn and what is actually upbringing.

      For instance, men click buttons faster than women: actually inborn. Nearly universal preference of women for at least one of pink and purple? Upbringing.

      I saw a documentary in a sociology class about a native tribe (describing a level of technology of better than stone age, but still pre-metal) somewhere in Africa, where the women sit around drink alcohol, spit, and play cards, while the men dress up pretty and sexy, and get dumped for the hot new model every 15 years.

      In such a tribe the "inferior" gender (referring to the gender subordinate to the gender of power) is actually the men, and they must accomplish things through manipulative, and subversive tacts, rather than the women, who have the power and ability to simply act brashly.

      So, it's kind of an interesting question... I'll grant you that there are pressures on women to be tactful and manipulative, however are they selective pressures? There are pressures in our modern world to learn multiple languages, but these pressures are as of yet at least not selective pressures, as they contribute to neither survival until procreation nor sexual selection.

      But the one thing I doubt either of us would disagree on is: women in our culture are more tactful, and manipulative.

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    80. Re:Erm...what? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The Constitution overrides all precedents, as I pointed out.

      No, you pointed out that for hundreds of years, precedents overrided the Constitution.

      Go spend 1,000 or more hours in court, get some REAL experience, then come back and argue.

      I've taken classes at a law school. Have you? How much time have you spent in court anywhere other than the spectator benches?

      But I'd never make a good lawyer. I think Common Law is broken. The adversarial system where the vast majority of the law is unknowable by any one person is about the worst possible legal system out there. At least in the countries where they hack off your hand for stealing you can understand the laws.

    81. Re:Erm...what? by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      Well, you're obviously trolling pretty hard, but you fail. Have a nice day :-)

    82. Re:Erm...what? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      You proved that precedent, when wrong, was looked at rather than the Constitution and that was done for hundreds of years. You proved yourself wrong very articulately. I didn't have to do anything other than hold the mirror. You did all the work.

      I note that you didn't respond to the questions, so it means that you are someone with no legal training and no legal experience who thinks showing up in court as a defendant or spectator makes them an expert. Good luck for that. You are the specific reason idiots, I mean lay-people, aren't allowed to represent others.

    83. Re:Erm...what? by tomhudson · · Score: 1
      No, I proved that precedent, when wrong and finally challenged, fails.

      Just like you :-)

      Sorry, but it's not my fault your reading comprehension or your logic (or both) isn't the best.

    84. Re:Erm...what? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      You proved that, when set wrong, precedent is followed above the Constitution and with full force of law for hundreds of years.

    85. Re:Erm...what? by tomhudson · · Score: 1
      Furthermore, as someone else pointed out, lay people ARE allowed to represent others in some jurisdictions already.

      I know one of them - she practices family law. The way it works is simple - she doesn't charge, but accepts gifts. As long as the gifts are satisfactory, she will continue the representation; as long as the representation is satisfactory, they continue to give gifts.

      Bonus - gifts below a certain amount are tax - free.

    86. Re:Erm...what? by causality · · Score: 1

      Is it weird of me to describe our exchange as "sexy" lol

      That's not the word I would use personally... but I will say it's always a joy to converse with an intelligent lady.

      I saw a documentary in a sociology class about a native tribe (describing a level of technology of better than stone age, but still pre-metal) somewhere in Africa, where the women sit around drink alcohol, spit, and play cards, while the men dress up pretty and sexy, and get dumped for the hot new model every 15 years.

      In such a tribe the "inferior" gender (referring to the gender subordinate to the gender of power) is actually the men, and they must accomplish things through manipulative, and subversive tacts, rather than the women, who have the power and ability to simply act brashly.

      That's an interesting case of role-reversal. I'd add one thing, however. If you took an average man from that tribe, I don't believe he would stand a chance against an average woman from a Western nation in any sort of contest of manipulation or subversion. That's how I would separate the inborn aptitude from the socialized roles.

      But the one thing I doubt either of us would disagree on is: women in our culture are more tactful, and manipulative.

      Both sexes often play the social game of putting on a face in order to attain the approval of others. They give in order to get, not because they feel the joy of giving. That's where that ego thing works its way into what could be genuine. I don't consider "tact" to be terribly tactful when it's based on approval or anything else other than honest appreciation.

      I'll give you a masculine example. What man is ever going to approach a woman at a bar and say "hey, why don't we have sex tonight?" Such a man would like things to be so simple, to receive a yes or no and move on, but even stupid men understand they won't get anywhere that way. So they play a game that could be called "tact". He gives her the ego boost of being sought after, a false sense of modesty, and a sense of control since his "yes" is assumed; while she gives him the ego boost of the pleasure that's far too important to him so he can think he's a man and not a dog.

      What a real lady wants is a man with so much love to give that he doesn't need any from her. I think that's why neediness or being "clingy" is so instinctively unsexy to women, generally. A real gentleman can't be manipulated because there are things more important to him than indulgence, and for that he needs to be principle and spiritual. Unfortunately both are rather rare these days, and certainly don't receive the glamor and glorification that the media lavishes on everything else.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    87. Re:Erm...what? by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      That's an interesting case of role-reversal. I'd add one thing, however. If you took an average man from that tribe, I don't believe he would stand a chance against an average woman from a Western nation in any sort of contest of manipulation or subversion. That's how I would separate the inborn aptitude from the socialized roles.

      Lactose tolerance went from minimally present to nearly universal in Europeans in about 4-6 thousand years. The selective pressures upon those men likely would reconfigure a lot of the "inborn aptitude" that you seem to advance.

      You are also making wild unsubstantiated assumptions based on preconceived biases... also known as prejudice.

      What a real lady wants is a man with so much love to give that he doesn't need any from her. I think that's why neediness or being "clingy" is so instinctively unsexy to women, generally.

      I believe (with a more intimate familiarity with the situation) that women generally find neediness unattractive due to a lot of social conditioning that men should support them. Even though we're getting better at things, men still feel "emasculated" by a more intelligent woman, or a more powerful woman, or a woman that earns more than they do.

      As for "clingy"? I don't think either gender particularly prefers such a trait... we wish to be appreciated and desired, but someone who is clingy has gone above and beyond expressing this desirability, and invaded upon our personal/private time. No matter how public we live our lives, we each have our fortress of solitude that we need to return to to recharge, and when we have a person clinging all over us all the time, we cannot enter our fortress, and thus it wears upon us.

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    88. Re:Erm...what? by causality · · Score: 1

      You are also making wild unsubstantiated assumptions based on preconceived biases... also known as prejudice.

      If I said that a randomly selected average man is able to bench-press more weight than a randomly selected average woman, would that be a wild unsubstantiated assumption based on a preconceived bias? The only difference is, that being something that is both physical and easily measured, no one says that this is a prejudice.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    89. Re:Erm...what? by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      If I said that a randomly selected average man is able to bench-press more weight than a randomly selected average woman, would that be a wild unsubstantiated assumption based on a preconceived bias? The only difference is, that being something that is both physical and easily measured, no one says that this is a prejudice.

      I do not deny that actual physical and physiological differences exist. Hormones REALLY DO FUCK WITH FEMALE EMOTIONS... yeah, they really do.

      That being said however, many people jump to assumptions about what is innate to each gender and what is not. Extricating what is innate from what is heavily pressured upon us by culture from birth, and our desire to conform to the gender roles we witness around us is far more difficult than just a simple "women are more manipulative than men".

      I believe I already pointed to the fact that men are capable of pushing a button more times per second than women... this is a physical attribute that is innate yet few people are even aware of it.

      The actual physiological differences between men and women are much more difficult to produce than we are typically brought up to believe.

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    90. Re:Erm...what? by causality · · Score: 1

      My point is that you readily acknowledge easily measured physical differences like how much weight one can bench-press or how rapidly one can push a button, and do not consider these to be biases. Meanwhile, you adamantly maintain that it is misguided bias to state that there are non-physical differences as well.

      I believe this is a self-contradiction on your part. The only reason you can do this is that non-physical differences are quite difficult to measure, while if you denied the physical differences there would be mountains of readily available evidence against you and it would make you look foolish. This comes across as rhetoric and not as a genuine spirit of inquiry.

      I've seen men who underestimated a woman's capabilities merely because she was a woman. What they found out really quickly is that this is a big mistake. The arena in which they learned this lesson had nothing to do with pushing buttons. It had everything to do with being played like a fiddle and not even realizing it until it had gone on for some time. Of course that was the mens' own damned fault -- they went into it thinking they would do the fiddle-playing and simply encountered a superior opponent. Had they dealt honestly they'd have been less likely to have such problems.

      It's a trait to be respected, or at least that's how I feel about it. Unless you believe that I can respect something that I believe to be inferior then I can hardly call this a negative bias.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    91. Re:Erm...what? by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      My point is that you readily acknowledge easily measured physical differences like how much weight one can bench-press or how rapidly one can push a button, and do not consider these to be biases. Meanwhile, you adamantly maintain that it is misguided bias to state that there are non-physical differences as well.

      No, this is an incorrect understanding of what I was saying. I was not claiming that it is "misguided bias" to suggest that there are non-physical differences.

      I was saying that such non-physical differences between men and women that do exist are much more difficult to properly examine, and thus care should be taken to ensure that these differences are adequately investigated to be actual innate differences and not simply cultural expectation.

      For instance, there is a high correlation between girls and liking red-ish colors, while there is also a high correlation between boys and liking blue-ish colors. Obviously that means that women are more innately likely to choose red-ish favorite colors, right?

      I also am not offended by the idea that women are more manipulative than men. This non-physical difference most certainly does exist. This does not however mean that it is innately true, or innately predisposed.

      Thus the point of my original statement, which is in fact universally true: it is a weighty assumption to make that correlation is causation.

      I mean, unless you have some evidence that women are innately more manipulative. Do you have say... evidence of a "control" culture, where women are the gender of power?

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
  6. Let me get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The pack sold is not illegal in any way. it does not teach the owner how to break the law? it simply educates them about it.

    The pack simply helps teach them how to best represent themselves, legally stand up for themselves?

    But because it helps them (legally) prove they aren't liable, the USCG is suing the pack producer because it's causing them to lose their cases?

    Hasn't this got to be the clearest case of racketeering, or proof it's all about extortion that the copyright-over-enforcement types have given yet?

    1. Re:Let me get this straight... by goldaryn · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The pack sold is not illegal in any way. it does not teach the owner how to break the law? it simply educates them about it.

      I quite agree. Syfert himself puts it very well:

      "If 19 cases costs them $5000 in attorney time, I wonder how many cases it'd take before their business model crumbles. That is unless they are going to actually work for a living."

      It's funny cos it's true. The whole thing reminds me of record companies trying to hold THEIR outdated business model with ligitation, which is also funny; they are on borrowed time.

      Except, this time it's not Joe Public. I hope this guys socks it to them. Huzzah

    2. Re:Let me get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's see how you'd react when someone fired you because your "business model" of wanting to be paid for doing your job is outdated. Apart from the greed of record companies there are actually many people who work hard to create music. Shouldn't they be paid because you think that you should be able to get anything for free?

    3. Re:Let me get this straight... by goldaryn · · Score: 1

      Let's see how you'd react when someone fired you because your "business model" of wanting to be paid for doing your job is outdated. Apart from the greed of record companies there are actually many people who work hard to create music. Shouldn't they be paid because you think that you should be able to get anything for free?

      Explain that to the artist who gets 10 cents out of the dollar from the record company. Shouldn't he/she be paid fairly?

  7. About those downloads... by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 4, Funny

    From the article:

    (..) users who had downloaded films like The Hurt Locker, Far Cry and Call of the Wild

    I liked the game Far Cry, so how about that movie? Is it any good? Is it worth the download?

    1. Re:About those downloads... by goldaryn · · Score: 4, Funny

      From the article:

      (..) users who had downloaded films like The Hurt Locker, Far Cry and Call of the Wild

      I liked the game Far Cry, so how about that movie? Is it any good? Is it worth the download?

      Well worth the $20 I paid for it

    2. Re:About those downloads... by EnsilZah · · Score: 1

      It's directed by this guy named Uwe Boll who's apparently made like a ton of these adaptations so he must be really good at it.

    3. Re:About those downloads... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From the article:

      (..) users who had downloaded films like The Hurt Locker, Far Cry and Call of the Wild

      I liked the game Far Cry, so how about that movie? Is it any good? Is it worth the download?

      Two words: Uwe Boll

      (Incidently, the capcha is "suffers")

    4. Re:About those downloads... by hedwards · · Score: 1

      I'd seriously recommend watching Postal, from what I gather it's the only decent film he's made. And yes, I do hear that whooshing sound.

    5. Re:About those downloads... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      I don't know if this post is sarcastic or not.

    6. Re:About those downloads... by mevets · · Score: 1

      I would like a copy of these documents. Anybody got a tracker for it?

    7. Re:About those downloads... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also Rampage and Stoic.

    8. Re:About those downloads... by tunapez · · Score: 1

      Is it a coincidence these 3 turds targeted are already airing daily on HBO? Will they re-air for the next 20 years in an attempt to get out of the red?
      Will profitable litigation spare the dozens of people who still pay HBO to re-watch such greats as Bachelor Party, Cool Runnings or GI Jane for the 42nd time?

      --
      Imagination drew in bold strokes, instantly serving hopes and fears, while knowledge advanced by slow increments...
    9. Re:About those downloads... by Xtifr · · Score: 1

      I'd seriously recommend watching Postal

      Seriously? Have you seen it?

      from what I gather it's the only decent film he's made

      From what I gather it may be the best film he's made, but that's not exactly saying very much. It's a bad movie, and the notion that his other movies are worse has cured me of any lingering urges I might have had to see any of them. It does have a few (very few) funny moments, but for me, the highlight of the movie was finally getting to see Dave Foley's schlong. And since I'm not gay, that's not much of a highlight! :)

      I will say this: if you're suffering from incurable curiosity about Boll's movies, Postal is probably the least painful way to satisfy that curiosity. It worked for me. Never again! :)

    10. Re:About those downloads... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ROTFLMFAO!!! :)))

  8. The Lawyers Who Brought This Suit by tmosley · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The lawyers who brought this suit should be disbarred, and they should be fined to fully compensate the court and the defendant for their time, AND for his emotional distress. This is a fucking outrage.

    1. Re:The Lawyers Who Brought This Suit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Judge: Sure, we'll disbar them, just let me stop laughing first...

    2. Re:The Lawyers Who Brought This Suit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      USCG is actually Dunlap, Grubb and Weaver. They seem to operate out of DC and Virgina. If you want them disbarred, start there.

      http://www.dglegal.com/
      http://www.vsb.org/
      http://www.dcbar.org/

    3. Re:The Lawyers Who Brought This Suit by Renraku · · Score: 1

      If they were to take this to extremes, they would be also suing lawyers who represented clients that the USCG was suing, due to 'lost money and time.' Hell, maybe I should go ahead and file a broad-spectrum lawsuit against companies across the world for 'lost money and time' because they didn't hire me to work for them.

      --
      Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
    4. Re:The Lawyers Who Brought This Suit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      USCG looks like it's actually Dunlap, Grubb & Weaver: http://www.dglegal.com/

      They appear to operate out of DC and VA. If you want to file a complaint, start there.

      http://www.dcbar.org/

      http://www.vsb.org/

  9. USCG branches out by Idarubicin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    USCG Sues Copyright Defense Lawyer

    Am I the only one who read that headline and wondered why the United States Coast Guard was getting involved in copyright lawsuits?

    --
    ~Idarubicin
    1. Re:USCG branches out by javakah · · Score: 1

      No, you weren't. Beyond just reading USCG as the United States Coast Guard, given that context, I initially interpreted "Copyright Defense Lawyer" as a lawyer for the Department of Defense who specialized in copyright law.

    2. Re:USCG branches out by durrr · · Score: 5, Funny

      Because of pirates, now you need not wonder anymore.

    3. Re:USCG branches out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, you were.

      But only because the rest of us have finally gotten over that from the last half-dozen USCG stories on /., and are now being astonished every time CNN tells us the United States Copyright Group interdicted a boatload of cocaine or Cubans.

    4. Re:USCG branches out by hedwards · · Score: 1

      Shut up, you'll give them ideas.

    5. Re:USCG branches out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Congratulations, you win the "most appropriate username ever" award.

    6. Re:USCG branches out by alexo · · Score: 1

      Am I the only one who read that headline and wondered why the United States Coast Guard was getting involved in copyright lawsuits?

      Because the DHS cannot handle the workload?

  10. Reverse the Sanctions by Nailer235 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Filing a suit against an attorney who is informing citizens of their Constitutional rights? Absolutely ridiculous. The attorney who filed this suit should be disbarred.

    1. Re:Reverse the Sanctions by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      I suspect the idea isn't to win - it's to personally inconvenience him as much as possible until he willingly gets out of the copyright defence business to avoid the harassment.

    2. Re:Reverse the Sanctions by Nailer235 · · Score: 1

      That is the definition of malicious prosecution.

    3. Re:Reverse the Sanctions by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      Filing a suit against an attorney who is informing citizens of their Constitutional rights? Absolutely ridiculous.

      The attorney who filed this suit should be disbarred.

      An assessment of this without reading the facts is kind of a prejudice. There are some people who are providing FALSE information to citizens about their rights, and as a result these people go on to file frivolous lawsuits/arguments.

      The US courts have consistently held that such behavior is wrong and the person should be fined and disbarred (although they're usually never at bar in the first place.)

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    4. Re:Reverse the Sanctions by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      At this point, maintaining his business model requires far less work than theirs. He just sells the packets. I really hope that if they do pester him enough to quit, he uploads the info to The Pirate Bay to share with world.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    5. Re:Reverse the Sanctions by Nailer235 · · Score: 1

      Good point

    6. Re:Reverse the Sanctions by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      The best part is the defense against a malicious prosecution countersuit is "um, judge. Umm. I'm um, stoopid."

    7. Re:Reverse the Sanctions by mabhatter654 · · Score: 1

      but a lawyer would know not to do that. Contrary to everybody here, most lawyers I have asked for advice have been VERY clear not just whether something is a form to be filed, but that THEY are only allowed to make certain arguments, and the courts frown steeply on going outside the lines.

      In this case, if the information is a packet of the FAQ variety, explaining what you were sued for, with the appropriate self-representation forms included they'll have a tough time. The big problem is that there are not a lot of Copyright lawyers that don't deal exclusively with corporations. The vast majority of lawyers in the local Yellow Pages would not have a clue what you're even being sued FOR, let alone the dirty little secrets that the other side didn't follow the courts instructions in the first place. In many state and federal jurisdictions, "suing IP addresses" has been banned outright. Your LOCAL attorney is not nearly qualified enough to open a case against the actual merits of how they got your name in the first place, they are only allowed to fight the case in front of them, i.e. the "debt collector" case. Once the Federal paper is waved, they often lack cause to even touch the original case for how the Copyright suits got the information, which probably would have been illegal in YOUR Federal courts, but YOUR local lawyer isn't ALLOWED by the courts to make such "outrageous" claims.

      That doesn't stop them from finding the one Judge that still allows it and once they have the case taking the "debt" case back to the same courts that refused the "IP address" cases. This is a big flaw in the Federal system because while the mid-country federal courts have ban the line of filing suit altogether, the east/west/south coast courts keep allowing them. The big problem is that the legal PRECEDENT is circuit by circuit, but the judgments made in ANY of the federal courts are upheld by all of them. The only court that can MAKE all the other courts rule in a certain way is the Supreme Court, which only hears cases dealing with "Constitutional" value, not day-to-day inequalities in their own system.

    8. Re:Reverse the Sanctions by Khyber · · Score: 1

      No, that's the definition of vexatious litigation.

      Malicious prosecution applies to the DA/government.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  11. Good . . . by Mitchell314 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    he should be sued. Instead of this thorn-in-my-side bloke being known to a handful of people, he now has the publicity to level up to a bloody damn nuisance. 14000 more xp and he'll level up to a rebel.

    But seriously, you'd think that as much as the Streisand effect has come up recently (like once a month), certain organizations would take heed and just roll with the punches. But that would involve, you know, using common sense.

    --
    I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
    1. Re:Good . . . by m509272 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Agree totally. Since most people didn't know of the availability of this $20 package it's great that more know of it now. I think it should go a step further. I would love to see the guy (with the help of donations if need be) run a full page ad in USA Today so it spreads all over. They'll of course be follow ups on TV and other newspapers, etc.

    2. Re:Good . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Perhaps we can speed the Streisand effect along a bit: http://store.payloadz.com/details/842325-Other-Files-Documents-and-Forms-Pro-Se-Basic-Motion-to-Quash-Package-On-Sale-Discount-.html

      I'd pretty much consider the $20 a donation to a worthy legal cause and the legal documents as just icing on the cake.

    3. Re:Good . . . by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Agree totally. Since most people didn't know of the availability of this $20 package it's great that more know of it now. I think it should go a step further. I would love to see the guy (with the help of donations if need be) run a full page ad in USA Today so it spreads all over. They'll of course be follow ups on TV and other newspapers, etc.

      Gee, maybe he could start his own blog, like this guy

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    4. Re:Good . . . by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      The media industries are stuck in the age of selling their stuff on physical media, and I bet if it were up to them they would never had sold magnetic tapes to begin with. They said tapes would kill them. They said VHS would kill them. Etc, etc.

      They're scared of the internet for the right reasons, because it makes distributing media extremely efficient and easy, but instead of using that to their advantage they're reacting in the worst possible manner. They're trying to close up the open internet and turn it into a private, access-controlled media distribution channel. Too bad it wasn't designed that way.

      My local brick-and-mortar video store has DVDs for rent, 3$ for new releases, 1$ for older movies. But on iTunes, new releases are 6$ (HD) and 5$ (SD) to rent, older movies (I'll use Terminator 2 for my example) are... 5$ (HD) and 4$ (SD). Wow, thirteen years later and it's a whole dollar less to rent it. They really don't get it.

    5. Re:Good . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $20? I'll just wait for the package to hit eDonkey.

    6. Re:Good . . . by failedlogic · · Score: 1

      I love your idea. I'm going to use EXP points every time I do a task at work. Every time I level-up, I'll tell my boss and demand a raise. This is such a practical system I hadn't thought about it. I think I have more EXP points than my boss - so the argument will be on my side.

    7. Re:Good . . . by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      That's gonna backfire when your surprisingly genre-savvy boss changes the dress code to mandate that all pants must have the left leg cut off at the knee and all shirts lacking a right sleeve...

  12. Ok im waiting. by unity100 · · Score: 1

    Any copyright/trademark/patent zealot, please explain us, whether we have hit the rock bottom yet, or not.

    If not being sued for legally defending yourself against a private interest is not rock bottom, then explain us 'rock bottom'.

    1. Re:Ok im waiting. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm pretty sure it involves a form of serfdom...

    2. Re:Ok im waiting. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any copyright/trademark/patent zealot, please explain us, whether we have hit the rock bottom yet, or not.

      If not being sued for legally defending yourself against a private interest is not rock bottom, then explain us 'rock bottom'.

      Rock bottom is the death penalty for a single act of copyright infringement.

    3. Re:Ok im waiting. by durrr · · Score: 1

      They hit rock bottom long ago, at which point they invested in heavy duty drilling equipment.
      They are like lemmings, they'll keep drilling until they hit the magma layers, and luckily they aren't made of asbestos.

    4. Re:Ok im waiting. by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Let's hope they won't hit the magma layers, otherwise it will open up a gateway to another dimension, causing an attack by giant alien creatures.

    5. Re:Ok im waiting. by Urkki · · Score: 1

      Any copyright/trademark/patent zealot, please explain us, whether we have hit the rock bottom yet, or not.

      If not being sued for legally defending yourself against a private interest is not rock bottom, then explain us 'rock bottom'.

      Ha, that's not even near rock bottom. First of all, your sentence has this crazy concept of "legally defending yourself". All those three words need to go, and then we might have rock bottom at least visible. At rock bottom, they wouldn't even need to sue.

  13. Ok, someone who understands this stuff... by orphiuchus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...please explain. There is absolutely no way that this is actually what it looks like on the surface, its just way to ridiculous.

    1. Re:Ok, someone who understands this stuff... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      There is absolutely no way that this is actually what it looks like on the surface, its just way to ridiculous.

      Speaking of, can someone show me the way to ridiculous?

    2. Re:Ok, someone who understands this stuff... by esme · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I doubt very much they are trying to argue that he's doing too good a job of defending people. My guess is that they are going after him for providing legal advice to people where he's lot licensed, providing legal advice to people he's never talked to, or some similar rule that's setup to prevent lawyers from ripping off clients. The amount of money they are asking for is probably justified as recouping their expenses that came from his "malpractice".

      I don't know the details of the case, or have any idea if he's technically in violation of some rule or not. I do know that retail-packaged legal advice (like make-your-own-will computer software) sometimes runs into problems in some jurisdictions, so it's not that big of a stretch to think this might stick.

    3. Re:Ok, someone who understands this stuff... by causality · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...please explain. There is absolutely no way that this is actually what it looks like on the surface, its just way to ridiculous.

      It sounds like you have a handle on the situation.

      In more civilized times, an angry mob would tar-and-feather asshats like this.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    4. Re:Ok, someone who understands this stuff... by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      providing legal advice to people where he's [n]ot licensed

      Eh... copyright law is I believe federal, so he can provide advice to anyone within the US...

      providing legal advice to people he's never talked to

      A possibility, but they have no standing to sue for damages in this case. Although, apparently they are only suing for sanctions against him. ... we would really need to look at the actual suit that they're filing to be on the same page as the guy being sued, but it couldn't possibly be for lack of license... (unless they want to get laughed out of court.)

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    5. Re:Ok, someone who understands this stuff... by beakerMeep · · Score: 1

      You'd think they have no standing though. If they are suing on the grounds you describe, the injured party would be the client who bought the $20 book.

      --
      meep
    6. Re:Ok, someone who understands this stuff... by Trekologer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It sees that the USCG is now complaining that the motions that the defendants filed in response (using Syfert's document pack) should not be accepted. The rule (that USCG quotes) says that the defendant's council must discuss with plaintiff's council before filing such motion and then serve defendant council with copies of the motion. However, the defendants are not being represented by any council (and certainly not Syfert, as indicated by his reply to USCG's request for sanctions) so those rules would not apply. USCG's assertion that the defendants need to first confer with them would be completely contrary to the purpose of the filings--to prevent the court from releasing the identity to the USCG.

      The defendants using the forms sold by Syfert is no different than someone using Legal Zoom or buying a package of legal forms from Staples. The problem (for USCG) is that the filings now require USCG to spend real money defending their assertion that the Doe defendants are liable, whether to simply answer the motions or possibly take the case to the court with correct jurisdiction over the defendants. What the USCG is attempting to do is discourage other Doe defendants from trying to defend themselves against the allegations.

    7. Re:Ok, someone who understands this stuff... by fluffy99 · · Score: 1

      You'd think they have no standing though. If they are suing on the grounds you describe, the injured party would be the client who bought the $20 book.

      ...and lost their case due to the bad advice. This isn't the case here as people are winning by using this advice.

    8. Re:Ok, someone who understands this stuff... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://torrentfreak.com/hurt-locker-sue-lawyer-who-helped-bittorrent-defendants-101124/
      USCG claims Syfert's forms led the Doe Defendants to file faulty motions that took up the court's time.

    9. Re:Ok, someone who understands this stuff... by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      Eh... copyright law is I believe federal, so he can provide advice to anyone within the US...

      No. The mere fact that copyright law in the US is overwhelmingly federal doesn't mean that attorneys practicing it can ignore the dangers of unauthorized practice. IIRC, some states are willing to allow attorneys not barred in that state to engage in a purely federal practice, but others are not.

      There is, OTOH, a federal patent bar which operates more like how you're thinking.

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    10. Re:Ok, someone who understands this stuff... by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      IIRC, some states are willing to allow attorneys not barred in that state to engage in a purely federal practice, but others are not.

      Huh, I'm not sure about that, but I'm willing to defer... law, especially in America, is crazy like that.

      I was simply working off of my knowledge interacting with the SFLC.

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    11. Re:Ok, someone who understands this stuff... by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's federal, so he can provide advice nation wide with no restrictions so long as he has passed the bar.

      They are trying to say the motions he advises people to file (he personally files nothing and does not defend these people in court) are a waste of the court's time and resources, since each motion must be responded to.

      Thing is, they teach you in law school to file motions even if you think they will probably fail. The judges know this, they see it every day, it's standard operating procedure. There are any number of motions that are always presented and almost always fail. This is not new.

      To say someone who represents himself cannot use the same tactic is absolutely ludicrous.

      If there is a case here for wasting the court's time, it's much stronger against USCG for their bulk copyright infringement suits, which are so often baseless.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    12. Re:Ok, someone who understands this stuff... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welcome to slashdot, where fake legal advice gets modded +3 insightful.

      The rule says you have to notify opposing counsel of your motion and make a good faith effort to see whether they oppose your motion. You also have to serve them with the motion. These rules apply and weren't followed.

  14. Just kidding...honest by JohnRoss1968 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Anyone know where one could download the self-representation paperwork packs?
    Im kidding.....

    1. Re:Just kidding...honest by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

      Just remember that it's okay if you promise to send him the money by mail!

    2. Re:Just kidding...honest by shadowbearer · · Score: 1

      This is a good place to start.

      SB

      --
      It's old. The more humans I meet, the more I like my cats. At least they are honest.
  15. Can we say Streisand? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are you being sued for file sharing? Can't afford a lawyer to defend you?

    Represent yourself and save.

    Not that I think file sharing copyrighted content is right but I'm willing to bet many of those being sued really are innocent but this day and age they're guilty until they prove otherwise.

  16. yes. should be. by unity100 · · Score: 1

    but, he wont be. he will even earn more money. and be hired for doing more of this shit.

    just like how a footman violating feudal laws for the benefit of his lord gets promoted.

  17. Advertising by Lando · · Score: 1

    The first thing I think about when I see this if free advertising for the accused lawyer. I mean if only 19 people have used the documents and 10x the number have paid for said documents at 20 bucks a pop. That's only around 4k of revenue. The article published on slashdot will likely generate far more income now. So the question is, are these documents real and effective or is this just an advertising campaign?

    --
    /* TODO: Spawn child process, interest child in technology, have child write a new sig */
    1. Re:Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DING DING DING !!

      That's the CORRECT question.

      The answer is that yes, this is an advertising (aka phishing) campaign.

      Poor lawyered up industry is having a hard time showing that they have standing because "Corporation vs Jane Doe" is EXPENSIVE. But when it's "Corporation vs Person who bought self-defence books from our phoney storefront AND also appears to be Jane Doe, Copyright Infringer" things become quite a bit simpler.

      Captcha: unclear

    2. Re:Advertising by amentajo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Graham Syfert, the "Copyright Defense Lawyer", is an EFF-listed lawyer.

      Do you think that the EFF accidentally mistook the manager of a "phoney storefront" for a lawyer credible enough to refer people to?

    3. Re:Advertising by Lando · · Score: 1

      Ah, very good. A reference that carries a bit of credibility. Thanks for the information.

      --
      /* TODO: Spawn child process, interest child in technology, have child write a new sig */
  18. Huh by webheaded · · Score: 1

    Normally you can at least see SOME sort of legal justification but I don't really see anything beyond "we're really mad he's making our jobs harder" and I'm not sure HOW they have legal grounds to sue him or have sanctions placed...he hasn't done anything illegal or even...WRONG in this case. WTF?

    --
    "Those who would sacrifice essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - BenF
  19. Can the USCG attorneys be disbarred over this? I d by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Can the USCG attorneys be disbarred over this? I don't think you can shut down a attorney like this. Prisons have tried to limit inmate access to court / filing lawsuits and the courts have said they can't do that.

  20. Re:Can the USCG attorneys be disbarred over this? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

    I would think that an attorney suing another attorney is fairly common. Remember one party can sue anyone for any reason, especially in a civil matter. The chances of winning is another. The courts don't normally intervene unless one party is notorious for filing frivolous lawsuits. The USCG can be barred for certain actions like suborning perjury but not for act of suing.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  21. Let me see the logic here by Arancaytar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Their legal team and/or cases sucked so much that they got their asses handed to them by untrained defendants using boilerplate this guy wrote.

    So now they want to sue him directly, after he already owned them by proxy, with a case that seems even more hilariously unjustified. What are they going to pin on him? Selling standard legal advice?

    Yeah, good luck.

    1. Re:Let me see the logic here by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 2, Informative

      They have no legal standing to sue, that's the motion that wins.

      They are basically suing because this guy tells them to file three other motions in addition to the motion that USCG has no legal standing, and those three motions always fail.

      So, basically, USCG has no right to sue these people in the first place, but they are suing this guy for advising people to file the three more motions than necessary to defeat the lawsuits. Filing multiple motions in the hopes that one will "stick" is common practice, and as far as I am aware there is no limit to the number of motions you can file.

      In other words, USCG is suing this guy for telling people how to exercise their legal rights.

      It's utter bullshit.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    2. Re:Let me see the logic here by Arancaytar · · Score: 1

      Ooh. But now I can understand why they get angry. It's like a legal DDOS, or really more of an anti-spam tar-pit.

      Not only does the case get thrown out, the three other motions also suck up further legal resources, making their scam even less profitable.

    3. Re:Let me see the logic here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When they boilerplate the accusation, it is easy to boilerplate the defense and win.

    4. Re:Let me see the logic here by dreampod · · Score: 1

      Not really. In this case the litigant doesn't actually have to respond to those motions because they are directed to the court rather than opposing council. One might be able to make an argument that it is 'multiplying the proceedings in any case unreasonably' (28 USC 1927) by forcing the judge to consider those arguments but given that it is both standard procedure for lawyers to file those motions even when they aren't expected to succeed and takes at most 30 seconds of time to consider, it would be an extremely difficult claim to have hold up.

      What they really object to is the (often) successful motion that the court has no 'personal jurisdiction' over the defendant and instead of being able to file as a single case against 5000 Does paying a single filing fee, proceeding in a friendly court, and arguing against unrepresented individuals they will be forced to file their lawsuit in the appropriate venue, paying for each individual, and having to contend with opposing council. That is what makes their scam less profitable but they can't actually come out and claim that because it would expose the fact that they are abusing the system and the goal is not 'reasonable accomadation' but achieving a settlement with the minimum cost possible regardless of the defendants actual guilt.

  22. U.S. Coast Guard Sues Grahm Syfert by harrytuttle777 · · Score: 1

    This strikes me as an outrageous abuse of power by the federal government. Let me read this article. Ohh wait, it is not the US Coast Guard. It is the US Copyright Group. In case can we get the Coast Guard to sue the Copyright group for trademark infringement.

    USCG vs USCG. The epic battle.

  23. my take by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they should sue the united states coast guard for taking their acronym before they came into existence. or maybe the coasties should shut them down.

  24. Tsk, tsk. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dunlap, et al. (legal counsel for USCG) need to have their collective head examined.

    Any court of competent jurisdiction can see this is a farce (did this so-called lawsuit survive the initial motion to dismiss?), especially since one of the defenses Mr. Syfert propounds (that of the "motion to dismiss based upon lack of personal jurisdiction") is actually working. I would also look harshly upon Dunlap's threats to potential defendants (doubling of settlement requests for those using Mr. Syfert's prepared forms), perhaps to the point of allowing such conduct to weigh in favor of Mr. Syfert in his sanctions claim.

    In short, USCG is abusing the legal process. You want to go after someone for copyright infringement, fine. More power to you. But this sort of chicanery makes judges very upset. The fact that Mr. Syfert is clever enough to include documentation in his prepared forms that is (surprise, surprise) raising an effective defense is cause for kudos to him, and Dunlap's whining is unbecoming a law firm. If you can't stand the heat (that is, someone effectively using the law against you), get out of the kitchen.

  25. His forms are still for sale by omnibit · · Score: 1

    From TFA, you can still buy his defense package from here

    1. Re:His forms are still for sale by hldn · · Score: 0, Redundant

      the real question is, where can i torrent this?

      --
      http://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
  26. How come the numbers are so different? by Yvan256 · · Score: 1

    If a lawyer sells paperwork to 19 people for 20$ that amounts to losses of 5000$, how come other individuals are sued for million dollars amounts? How exactly did it go from 1~250 million to 263.16$ per person sued?

    The guy should let the lawsuit go through and set a precedent of 263.16$ as the amount the RIAA/MPAA/USCG/etc can sue a person for. No more, no less.

    1. Re:How come the numbers are so different? by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      All of the lawsuits against individuals have been net losses for the copyright holders, and this might be about the lost revenue for USCG, particularly the money lost from not settling. Basically, what I'm saying is that there is no logic to these suits, so don't try and apply logic to them.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    2. Re:How come the numbers are so different? by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

      If a lawyer sells paperwork to 19 people for 20$ that amounts to losses of 5000$, how come other individuals are sued for million dollars amounts? How exactly did it go from 1~250 million to 263.16$ per person sued?

      The guy should let the lawsuit go through and set a precedent of 263.16$ as the amount the RIAA/MPAA/USCG/etc can sue a person for. No more, no less.

      It could be that they're suing for a different reason. For example, if you sue me for breach of contract for $200 for not painting your house properly, and I then steal your car, you aren't limited to only suing me for $200 for your car.

    3. Re:How come the numbers are so different? by causality · · Score: 1

      All of the lawsuits against individuals have been net losses for the copyright holders, and this might be about the lost revenue for USCG, particularly the money lost from not settling.

      Actually the ridiculously high "damages" awarded to copyright holders are usually in the form of statutory damages. They hardly bother with inconveniences like demonstrating that any actual monetary harm has occurred. That's for the little people like you and me.

      Basically, what I'm saying is that there is no logic to these suits, so don't try and apply logic to them.

      True enough; I'll add only one thing to that. Copyright interests spent a lot of money greasing the palms of various politicians (which is sadly legal). They now have the very best perpetually extended copyright law with ridiculously overinflated statutory damages that money can buy. They plan on getting as much use out of it as they can.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    4. Re:How come the numbers are so different? by Motard · · Score: 1

      Syfert wants to sell thousands of them.

    5. Re:How come the numbers are so different? by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      You misunderstand what I mean by net loss. Every single case brought into court against an individual has ended up costing more in legal fees than they could get out of the defendant, because it costs a lot of money to get through a court case, especially with appeals, and the individuals being sued were moms and college students who don't have any money to speak of. I found it worth mentioning that the obscenely high dollar judgements still resulted in the RIAA being in the red, which makes it not at all a viable action from a business perspective.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    6. Re:How come the numbers are so different? by 4wdloop · · Score: 1

      The logic is different - it is negative advertisement to stealing (copying) the copyrighted material. Or, in other words, it's goal is exemplary punishment rather then a business plan.

      --
      4wdloop
    7. Re:How come the numbers are so different? by causality · · Score: 1

      You misunderstand what I mean by net loss. Every single case brought into court against an individual has ended up costing more in legal fees than they could get out of the defendant, because it costs a lot of money to get through a court case, especially with appeals, and the individuals being sued were moms and college students who don't have any money to speak of. I found it worth mentioning that the obscenely high dollar judgements still resulted in the RIAA being in the red, which makes it not at all a viable action from a business perspective.

      I may have done a poor job of clearly expressing it, but I completely agree with you. When I say they purchased those laws and wish to get the most use out of them that they can, I deliberately avoided defining "use". I don't believe that the recovery of damages is the goal of RIAA/MPAA lawsuits. I believe that making an example of people to scare others into deciding not to download copyrighted material is the purpose. If it were about recovery of damages then the fact that they lose more money than they recover would have ended the practice.

      Laws that are inherently difficult to enforce often tend to work that way. They know that most people won't get caught. They also know that a rational lawbreaker tends to evaluate risk in terms of both the likelihood of getting caught and the severity of the penalty. If they can't alter the likelihood then they usually alter the penalty. This is one reason why some of the copyright interests want basic copyright infringement to become a criminal offense (which wouldn't nullify the civil liability). That would both increase the penalty and shift the cost of enforcement to the government, and for them, that would be a win-win.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
  27. Re:Erm... bad reporting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    So, according to these USCG clowns, providing a working defence to the opposition is illegal?

    I wouldn't know. The article doesn't specify if any actual legal proceeding has actually been initiated or if this is just a bluff in an email exchange. Nor does it say what specific body this would be filed with, or what the legal basis for the filing would be. Is it really to much to ask for an article with some actual information in it?

  28. where do i get this kit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am being harassed for a download. Where can i get this kit that i have never heard of before this post?

    1. Re:where do i get this kit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  29. the people v. the bar by gd2shoe · · Score: 1

    I agree that the lock the bar has on legal representation aught to be illegal, but I think this is wishful thinking. I think your arguments are interesting, but your prediction will come to naught.

    As one example: there are specific sects permitted "conscientious objector" status. They are excused from military service for religious reasons. If your point held, then the draft would be entirely invalid. Any judge would be loath to make a ruling with such far-reaching and unpredictable consequences.

    Reverse discrimination suits rarely hold water, and never* on the scale that you propose.

    (IANAL, thus I do not hear about all legally interesting cases.)

    --
    I won't join Slashcott. OTOH, If Beta goes live, I just won't be back until it's fixed. Sorry Dice.
    1. Re:the people v. the bar by causality · · Score: 2, Insightful

      As one example: there are specific sects permitted "conscientious objector" status.

      Does that include people who think that unprovoked, offensive wars amount to mass murder? If not, then yes that is blatant favoritism.

      I for one refuse to have my hands stained with the blood of people whose only "crime" is defending themselves against an aggressor. Since when did that require membership in an organized religion?

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    2. Re:the people v. the bar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since the de-segregation of church and state. Ooops.

    3. Re:the people v. the bar by fishexe · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As one example: there are specific sects permitted "conscientious objector" status.

      Does that include people who think that unprovoked, offensive wars amount to mass murder? If not, then yes that is blatant favoritism.

      No, it only includes people who think all wars are wrong, or whose religion prohibits them from fighting even in wars they think are just. For example, the vast majority of Quakers refused to fight in WWII and the Civil War, despite strongly believing the US was on the right side of both, so Quakers get to claim CO status. The system is rigged up that way, so people who only have a problem with unprovoked, offensive wars are SOL.

      --
      "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
    4. Re:the people v. the bar by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      "I would never kill any person" is a conscientious objector. "I wouldn't kill anyone unless they deserved it, and Iraq didn't deserve it" isn't. You don't need to specifically be a member of a religion to be a CO. Being a CO won't absolve you of being drafted and serving in a non-combat position (though they usually don't bother). Previous affiliation with an organized religion with a history of CO status makes it easier to claim CO and not be called a liar and drafted into combat positions anyway. With an all-volunteer force, CO doesn't exist. If you sign up, you agree to kill who they want when they want.

  30. Coast Guard by phrostie · · Score: 1

    so not only is the BSA is now the Business Software Alliance rather than Boy Scouts of America, but the USCG is now the US Copyright Group rather than the United States Coast Guard.

    can't wait to find what they change USA to.

    I'm sure it will all be for our own good.

    1. Re:Coast Guard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Universal Software Association, brought to you by the DHS

  31. Re:Can the USCG attorneys be disbarred over this? by snowgirl · · Score: 1

    Can the USCG attorneys be disbarred over this? I don't think you can shut down a attorney like this. Prisons have tried to limit inmate access to court / filing lawsuits and the courts have said they can't do that.

    It depends upon if the attorney is providing valid advice. People have already been fined, sanctioned, and even jailed for providing false legal advice to the public, (who then go on to file frivolous lawsuits/defenses).

    The prison thing is a bit different, it's kind of hard to sue someone for fines and sanctions for providing legal advice to other inmates...

    --
    WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
  32. Wow! by MarkvW · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The lawyer trolls are going to lose. That's for sure. The only question is whether Mr. Syfert will get sanctions against them, and if so, how much those sanctions will be. Assuming that there is nothing defamatory in Mr. Syfert's materials, all Syfert did is sell information to third parties. There's no law against that (and the First Amendment supports it).

    The whole thing is now a free targeted promotional event on Mr. Syfert's behalf.

    Just a little bit of careful thought would have dissuaded the lawyer trolls from filing an action against Mr. Syfert. It will be fun to watch this circus as it unfolds its tents.

    1. Re:Wow! by mabhatter654 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      if the forms and motions were not VALID, the court clerk would simply return them to sender along with a note that the motion is invalid. If the courts are accepting these "boilerplate" responses there must be something to them, or the court would sanction this guy directly.

  33. On what grounds? by devent · · Score: 1

    Anyone known on what grounds is USCG suing? As far as I know you need to break a law before anyone can put you before a judge.

    --
    http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
    1. Re:On what grounds? by dreampod · · Score: 1

      Are you serious? You can sue anyone for anything no matter how rediculous it is in the US. If your claim isn't seriously flawed (by flawed I mean using the wrong legal term not completely nonsensical) then the defendant must file a response or you win by default. Once the response is filed the majority of rediculous lawsuits are summarily dismissed.

  34. Re:Can the USCG attorneys be disbarred over this? by Nailer235 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    An individual can usually file a suit for just about anything. Attorneys, on the other hand, are usually held to a higher standard. Look up "malicious prosecution"

  35. ok... one word here... by sxpert · · Score: 1

    WTF !!!

  36. So, it's working? Good to know. Thanks, USCG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder if, by their actions so clearly telling us that this works, USCG is practicing law outside of the jurisdiction where they're licensed?

    Bookmarked, justin case.

    BTW, is there a torrent of the forms?
    Just in case it really works and he gets shut down...

  37. Too bad. by digitalPhant0m · · Score: 1

    So much for the 1st Amendment

  38. Why this bothers the US Copyright Group by Animats · · Score: 1

    What seems to be driving the copyright enforcers nuts is simply that Syfert's package of boilerplate letters contains one raising a "personal jurisdiction" issue. The copyright enforcers have been filing all their suits in one Federal court, in the District of Columbia, regardless of where the defendant is. In such cases, where the defendant has no connection to the district where the court is, it's routine to object, and force the plaintiff to refile in the defendant's district court. The lawyers for the US Copyright Group then have to sue in dozens of different district courts. They hate that.

    Here's an example of such a motion. Such motions are usually granted. The EFF has a long filing on this.

  39. Re:Erm... bad reporting by Trekologer · · Score: 1

    The article on TorrentFreak (liked in TFA) has the court filings from both USCG and Syfert's reply.

  40. Take a page from the US traffic system... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They need to take a page from the US traffic law extortion system. If the USCG would only extort $150-200 per pop, like a speeding ticket - most people will just pay up. They find it's not worth the hassle and time off work to defend a $200 case, so ~97% just pay the ticket with out going to court. Of those who do go to court, 97% loose, so the overall payout rate is very high. Yet about 85% of the people continue to drive faster than the speed limit and almost no one bothers to change the laws.

  41. Re:Can the USCG attorneys be disbarred over this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wouldn't "False legal advice" be more of pretending to be an attorney when you are not?

    How can it be illegal to tell someone "Hey, to defend yourself against that lawsuit, I think you should try this..." if you are honest about being or not being an attorney. If that's illegal, then in effect people can not discuss the law. How can democracy work then? That's just nuts!

    Here is how I see it:
    - He's an attorney.
    - His advice works (if not, then people who bought his advice are those who should sue)
    - He's only educating people about the law and trials.

  42. Re:Can the USCG attorneys be disbarred over this? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

    "Malicious prosecution" like "vexatious litigation" normally require more than one act. Your neighbor could sue you if your car is parked one inch too close for comfort. The courts will not like it but unless your neighbor repeatedly files frivolous lawsuits, they are not likely to do anything.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  43. Where can I download ... by Skapare · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... pirated copies of these documents?

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    1. Re:Where can I download ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He he. If Syfert *really* wants to stick it up em, he'll release the doc pack into the public domain after 2-3 mths

  44. Whaaaat? by Katchu · · Score: 1

    I read that as U.S. Coast Guard Sues... and I'm like ????

    --
    Keep Doing Good.
  45. lawyers do have special rules by astar · · Score: 1

    say in Washington state, you get the J.D. and you pass the bar, then you can practice as a lawyer. You have to join the bar association. The bar association, by law, defines the rules for you. If you need to be slapped up by the side of the head, the bar does it. If you do not like it, hey, you can get the state supreme court to review things. So if you are not in the bar association, you cannot practice. law. In places like texas, I believe lots of the usual legal self-help stuff is simply in some meaniful sense illegal because making it available is seen as practicing.

    Another way to look at it: a lawyer is an officer of the court. So he is always under the court's jurisdiction in a certain way. And judges can do about whatever they want to you, at first cut, and not particularly because you are some sort of criminal. So what they do is reviewable by higher courts, but it is not impossible to sit in jail for, what, 20 years, as happened to one lawyer in the US who got hit with a contempt of court thing and would not deal on it. I know someone who got his ticket pulled for a bit because he dropped the dime on a judge who was taking bribes. Hey, I was before the the judge once too (IANAL). Now realize the my friend did not get nailed exactly for outing the judge. It was just that the way he got the information, it was, by the lawyer rules in Washington, improper to reveal the information, even to the judge discipline apparatus.

    Oh, judges are not lawyers. Sure, they were lawyers, and they might be lawyers again in the future, but in Washington State, they do not have to stay in the bar association. Their rule set is again different than a lawyer's rule set.

    Anyway, I do not assume this lawyer's situation is simple and of course no one walking into a court room can figure he will surely prevail, no matter the merits of the case.

  46. Venue and the Inability to Think Ahead by MarkvW · · Score: 1

    Mr. Syfert may make a motion to change the venue of this action to a federal court that is nearer to his home base. If successful, this would mean that the lawyer trolls would have to fly to Mr. Syfert's state to litigate their action against him.

    The trolls appear to be low-budget operators. A change of venue (along with a counterclaim) would take a real bite out of the trolls' glutes!

     

    1. Re:Venue and the Inability to Think Ahead by dreampod · · Score: 1

      Actually he did better than that being an (apparently) unemployed lawyer. He put in a claim that he was included in this lawsuit for the purposes of harassment (a solid claim given the email trail) and as such if it were dismissed he would be entitled to sanctions against the litigant. He also claims that he is in the process of establishing a legal practice so while he is not entitled to lawyers fees (because he is representing himself pro se) his firm would be denied his services (as the only lawyer) and harmed so he should be entitled to reasonable travel expenses and an attourney's rate of billing for the time involved if forced to travel to represent himself. Given that his firm is in the process of being established he can set whatever he wants (as long as it passes the sniff test) for his hourly rate since there are no clients to complain that it would be to high yet and then 'adjust' it down afterwards.

  47. Is there REALLY a suit? by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 1

    This sounds like bad reporting. Nothing actually quoted from the lawyer there (or in the article it cites) says he is being sued. It says they are requesting sanctions. That sounds to me like they are alleging violation of some court procedural rule, or perhaps some rule of professional conduct of the relevant bar.

  48. Not suing! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is a motion for sanctions under FCRP 11. This is meant for an attorney on the case, or the client, as punishment for filing a frivolous motion.

    Plaintiff's counsel is claiming that it is frivolous and it cost $5,000 to defend against these frivolous motions in that one case.

    This is not a lawsuit or counterclaim.

    1. Re:Not suing! by tomhudson · · Score: 1
      Except that:
      1. The person they're asking for sanctions against was not a party;
      2. One of the motions was successful - hence proving that a judge found the filings were NOT, in the courts judgement, frivolous;
      3. The defendant has filed their own motion for similar sanctions, because the motion for sanctions was obviously frivolous.

      And yes, he has grounds to file a lawsuit as well as ask for sanctions, since they HAVE now dragged him into a separate proceeding, as well as infringed on his constitutional rights - he should make a federal case out of it.

      The request for sanctions doesn't prejudice his other rights of recourse. And since he's a lawyer, it's not like he has to go out and hire a lawyer - though he should, just to add to his damage claims.

      -- Barbie

  49. Re:Can the USCG attorneys be disbarred over this? by snowgirl · · Score: 1

    Acknowledging that his advice has worked in court is a good point towards discrediting my point in application to only this case.

    However to address this question: How can it be illegal to tell someone "Hey, to defend yourself against that lawsuit, I think you should try this..."?

    It can be illegal because you're purposing a frivolous argument. For instance, you're being threatened with a libel lawsuit and you attempt to argue that you're immune to the lawsuit because you've revoked your US citizenship, and thus are immune to its jurisdiction.

    If you made such an argument in court, the judge would dismiss you outright, and rebuke your claim. There is no argument to even be HEARD about the claim, as it is patently false.

    Thus, the court may even sanction you for making a frivolous claim (a claim that can be dismissed without argument, because it is based upon a direct contradiction of law.)

    So it is possible that this lawyer didn't do something right... however because his motions to dismiss due to lack of personal standing did work, it's a pretty sure fire answer that he wasn't advising frivolous arguments.

    --
    WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
  50. Re:Can the USCG attorneys be disbarred over this? by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

    Can the USCG attorneys be disbarred over this? I don't think you can shut down a attorney like this. Prisons have tried to limit inmate access to court / filing lawsuits and the courts have said they can't do that.

    Technically, the USCG attorneys could be right, depending on what's in the actual complaint (which we haven't seen here). For example, maybe they're claiming Syfert is practicing law in a state he's not licensed in, or is aiding pro se defendants for commercial gain, or is aiding them in filing frivolous motions, etc. If so, it's possible that Syfert could be the one disbarred.

    But that said, disbarment is relatively unusual. Sanctions and fines are a lot more likely, on either side.

  51. Torrent Link by Dthief · · Score: 0, Redundant

    anyone know where to get the torrent for this? I dont want to pay $20

    --
    www.RacquetUp.org - Helping Detroit Youth
  52. Well, the next step has to be.... by Motard · · Score: 1

    Someone will file these documents in a court and Mr. Syfert will notice that they weren't a customer - and will threaten to sue them for copyright infringement unless they settle for $2,500.

    Would USCG then publish a set of form motions to defend against this?

  53. Re:Erm...what? TAX Is in place by tengu1sd · · Score: 2, Informative

    Coincidentally they (Arizona) have no income tax.

    Arizona has personal income tax. I used to to live there and filed every year. States with no income tax are:
    Alaska
    Florida
    Nevada
    South Dakota
    Texas
    Washington
    Wyoming
    New Hampshire and Tennessee tax only dividend and interest income

  54. Why the EFF...? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    has not released something like this before?

  55. torrent download by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is there a torrent download of these documents somewhere?

  56. It's cost you 5000 dollars, you say? by Adrian+Lopez · · Score: 1

    Syfert sells these packets for $20, and the USCG claims the 19 individuals who have used it have cost them over $5000.

    Your honor, I move to imprison the witness on the grounds that her testimony has cost me my freedom.

    --
    "In prison you just have to shut your eyes and take it. Here you have to shut your eyes and give it."
  57. Missing Important controls! by SirAstral · · Score: 1

    This shows that we are missing (not exercising) important controls on our judicial system. One of these controls are secured within the Legislative branch. The legislature has the power to establish and abolish every court with the exception of the supreme court. This means that if an activist Judge is getting out of hand the legislatures job and responsibility is to abolish that court. If a court decides to actually hear this case the Legislature should abolish the court. Any court willing to entertain a suit like this should be abolished with prejudice. The side effect of this will be that no court would be stupid enough to take on another case like this and would readily slap down any lawyer stupid enough to attempt another suit like this!

    When was the last time a court was abolished for stupid stuff like this? Does anyone know?

    1. Re:Missing Important controls! by nomadic · · Score: 1

      What exactly do you think the Court did here?

  58. read TFA before screaming! by 4wdloop · · Score: 1

    TFA links to this article, which includes the filed petition and answer to it: http://torrentfreak.com/hurt-locker-sue-lawyer-who-helped-bittorrent-defendants-101124/ IANAL but reading the petition shows the UScg argues the following: - the forms are baseless for legal or procedural reasons - the petitions based on these forms failed in the courts - these petitions cased unnecessary (frivolous) burden on courts and UScg - the lawer selling the petitions and defendants using them are responsible for the above IANAL, but I hope there is nothing that can be considered a "legal services contract" between the seller of the forms and buyers, otherwise they may have some merit if their argument about procedural and legal bases of these forms are valid. BTW, the UScg are lawers, they may be full if sh*t but they are not idiots.

    --
    4wdloop
  59. Link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    surprised nobody has posted a link yet. Here it is

    Wouldn't it be nice if this got reposted several million times on the web.

  60. Devil's Advocate for a minute by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    I'm all for free distribution of information, but FTA:

    It's interesting to note, as the site points out, that the USCG is "upset for a reason." While all motions to quash and motions for protective order have so far been denied regardless of how they were filed, the motions to dismiss for lack of personal jurisdiction have not. In other words, Syfert's package is allowing people to mount an effective defense against the claim and the USCG is faced with the very expensive possibility of having to re-file thousands of individual cases in order to get around it.

    In other words, 'effective defense' in this case basically means getting off on a technicality.

  61. Re:Can the USCG attorneys be disbarred over this? by Khyber · · Score: 1

    "Technically, the USCG attorneys could be right, depending on what's in the actual complaint (which we haven't seen here)."

    No, you don't need to read the complaint.

    "For example, maybe they're claiming Syfert is practicing law in a state he's not licensed in,"

    No, Copyright is Federal and as such ALL jurisdictions are open.

    "or is aiding pro se defendants for commercial gain"

    That isn't uncommon and really isn't illegal. I can pay lawyers left and right for advice which I use myself in a courtroom without a lawyer present. Just because I have the right to an attorney doesn't necessarily mean I'll be hiring one to talk on my behalf in the courtroom.

    'or is aiding them in filing frivolous motions"

    Given the nature of the USCG, I find it hilarious you'd even suggest that nonsense.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  62. Here's the answer by Khyber · · Score: 2

    Give me the names, and the address of the United States Copyright Group.

    I've still got a bunch of cash to burn and I'll happily burn it destroying them.

    Electronic Arts didn't fare too well against me (they settled to prevent precedent that would've killed the entire PC gaming industry) and I see EXACTLY how I'm going to destroy the US Copyright Group.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    1. Re:Here's the answer by earlymon · · Score: 1

      If true, the info you want was posted above:

      http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1886544&cid=34366366

      --
      Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
  63. USCG by WED+Fan · · Score: 5, Funny

    I think the U.S. Coast Guard should sue the U.S. Copyright Group.

    --
    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong fix.
    1. Re:USCG by SeaFox · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think the U.S. Coast Guard should sue the U.S. Copyright Group.

      Clearly they aren't happy with being expected to find pirates outside of U.S. waters.

  64. Re:Can the USCG attorneys be disbarred over this? by Theaetetus · · Score: 1

    "Technically, the USCG attorneys could be right, depending on what's in the actual complaint (which we haven't seen here)."

    No, you don't need to read the complaint.

    Nice try, Obi Wan, but your Jedi mind tricks won't work here. I'd like to actually read the complaint rather than just navel-gazing.

    "For example, maybe they're claiming Syfert is practicing law in a state he's not licensed in,"

    No, Copyright is Federal and as such ALL jurisdictions are open.

    Not exactly. There are state laws on copyright, too (17 USC does not fully preempt), and as such there may be state claims in the original complaint. Hence why we might want to see it, y'know?

    "or is aiding pro se defendants for commercial gain"

    That isn't uncommon and really isn't illegal. I can pay lawyers left and right for advice which I use myself in a courtroom without a lawyer present. Just because I have the right to an attorney doesn't necessarily mean I'll be hiring one to talk on my behalf in the courtroom.

    Just because you have the right doesn't mean they aren't violating their state bar ethics rules. Maybe we should, oh, see the complaint?

    'or is aiding them in filing frivolous motions"

    Given the nature of the USCG, I find it hilarious you'd even suggest that nonsense.

    So if one side files something questionable, the other side has free reign? Doesn't work that way. But tell you what... Maybe we should see the complaint?

  65. strict constructionist by hildi · · Score: 0

    im pretty fucking sure the founding fathers meant 'legal advice' = 'free speech'. especially if our modern SCOTUS thinks corporations donating billions to false campaign ads is 1st amendment. this whole fucking argument is re god damned diculous.

  66. your basic human rights are not a technicality by hildi · · Score: 0

    you cant sue someone thousands of miles from where they live just so you can get away with it becuase they cant afford to defend themselves and you cant sue someone for harming you if they --didnt actually harm you--. if they have properly transferred power of attorney or something thats one thing. but there are rules and they need to be followed.

  67. Oblig. Liar Liar quote by grolschie · · Score: 2, Funny

    Fletcher: Your honor, I object!
    Judge: Why?
    Fletcher: Because it's devastating to my case!

  68. You know what this makes me want to do? by mysidia · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Buy Mr. Syfert's $20 packet, just to support him.

    The USCG have now moved on from copyright abuse to attempting to squash people's legitimate 1st amendment free speech rights, and their 5th amendment due process rights.

    The USCG's lawyers need to get disbarred for this.

  69. Here you go: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The long and short of it is that the motions were procedurally defective, irrelevant, and without legal basis. Thus the USCG has sought sanctions against the attorney for assisting the defendants in filing frivolous motions. The relevant federal statute, 28 USC 1927, providing penalties for such conduct, reads as follows:

    "Any attorney or other person admitted to conduct cases in any court of the United States or any Territory thereof who so multiplies the proceedings in any case unreasonably and vexatiously may be required by the court to satisfy personally the excess costs, expenses, and attorneys' fees reasonably incurred because of such conduct."

  70. Re:Can the USCG attorneys be disbarred over this? by fishexe · · Score: 2, Informative

    I would think that an attorney suing another attorney is fairly common. Remember one party can sue anyone for any reason, especially in a civil matter.

    Actually, if you file a suit which is clearly frivolous you can face sanctions under Rule 11 of the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. You *can* sue anyone for anyone reason, but if the suit had no chance of winning then the attorney who filed it can face sanctions.

    --
    "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
  71. Re:Can the USCG attorneys be disbarred over this? by fishexe · · Score: 1

    Can the USCG attorneys be disbarred over this? I don't think you can shut down a attorney like this.

    Yes, but whether they will be is another matter. Filing frivolous lawsuits is often grounds for disbarment at the discretion of the relevant bar. If the court gives USCG sanctions under Rule 11 it's more likely, but the fact that they're a corporate entity makes it less likely. Like I said, at the bar's discretion. Let's wait and see what happens.

    --
    "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
  72. Sounds like fair game to me by fishexe · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sounds like what this attorney was doing is fair game. If they can go after everyone with boilerplate, why can't people defend themselves with boilerplate? This fine, upstanding attorney is just making it happen, and taking one small step toward evening the odds. Of course the corporate behemoth doesn't like that; it thrives on being the beneficiary of a huge power imbalance.

    --
    "I don't care about the Constitution!" --Bill O'Reilly, November 17, 2009
  73. that was overturned a few months later by Khopesh · · Score: 4, Informative

    US Court Of Appeals Lifts Texas Ban On Sales Of Quicken Family Lawyer (one of the first hits in a search for "quicken family lawyer texas" sans quotes) states:

    The United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit has vacated a judgment restraining Parsons Technology Inc. from selling and distributing Quicken Family Lawyer Version 8.0 and Quicken Family Lawyer '99 legal software within the State of Texas.

    --
    Use my userscript to add story images to Slashdot. There's no going back.
  74. Re:Erm... bad reporting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thank you. I didn't click on every random link in TFA. The TorrentFreak article was far more useful. I'm also now satisfied that the USCG complaint is also entirely frivolous, but I try to reserve judgement on that sort of thing without seeing a primary source.

  75. Syfert's website by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Graham Syfert's website appears to be http://www.jacksonvilleforeclosuredefense.org
    There is a link at the bottom to the purchasable PDF mentioned in the summary.

  76. Re:Can the USCG attorneys be disbarred over this? by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Malicious prosecution" like "vexatious litigation" normally require more than one act.

    Like, say, bringing thousands copyright infringement lawsuits when you have no legal standing (that's the motion that always wins in the USCG cases)?

    --
    Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
  77. Let me get this straight... by Lanteran · · Score: 1

    ..are you saying that they're suing because the packets are allowing self-defenders to actually win in some of these cases?

    --
    "People don't want to learn linux" hasn't been a valid excuse since '03.
  78. [OT] (was Re:Wait...) by tqk · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Being a spelling & grammar Nazi is a sign you do not *poses* the intelligence to contribute to the conversation

    Ah, insult people who call you on your laziness and slipshoddiness. If you can't be bothered to proofread what you write, why should I bother reading it? Whether you accept the fact or not, a spellchecker is not a sufficient replacement for your brain.

    People who complain about spelling nazis are just too damned lazy to care what others get from their message. Why bother writing it in the first place if you don't care what your readership gets from your words?

    --
    "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
  79. Stolen Acronym by MacWiz · · Score: 1

    I think the U.S. Coast Guard should sue the U.S. Copyright Group for stealing their acronym.

  80. Shows how bad the US Legal System is! by Helldesk+Hound · · Score: 1

    This sort of legal bullshit only demonstrates how bad the USian legal system is!

  81. Do your children become community-property & by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do your children become community-property & independent at the age of 28?

    or at the age of 120?

    objectivity suggests that if the
    a) ANY NOTE EVER PERFORMED OR RECORDED IS COPYRIGHTED, &
    b) COPYRIGHT IS FOREVER
    paradigm is right, then speech itself is illegal ( under ACTA, criminal ),
    as every syllable you or I ever speak would have been
    "performed" or "recorded" before we did it

    ( especially as we got our language from the community we were born into! )...

    If we don't own our children forever,
    and they are MUCH more intimately of us than any
    arrangement of cultural-meaning
    that we created...
    given the culture we were given,
    then claiming that we possess our re-arrangements of given-to-us
    cultural-substance is magnificently asinine.

    The architect owns copyright on the building-design,
    but the construction-workers get no copyright on the rendition?

    Therefore the architect keeps getting royalties &
    the construction-workers have to keep grinding for income?

    Typical class privilege, leveraging more of itself for itself...

  82. Huh? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1
    Am I the only one wondering why the US Coast Guard was suing someone?

    Probably.......

    --
    Why is this even on SlashDot?... Why is this even on Slashdot?...Why is this even on Slashdot?