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Sahara Solar To Power Half the World By 2050
eldavojohn writes "A Japanese/Algerian effort called The Sahara Solar Breeder Project employs a simple concept revolving around the pure silica in the sand of the Sahara Desert. The silica can be used to build vast solar arrays which will then provide the power and means to build more solar arrays in a classic breeder model. They would then use DC powerlines utilizing high temperature superconductors. The lead of the project points out that silica is the second most abundant resource in the Earth's crust. The project's lofty goals to harness the Sahara's energy has a few requirements — including 100 million yen annually — but also the worldwide cooperation of many nations and the training of the scientists and engineers to create and man these desert plants. The once deadly wasteland of the Sahara now looks like a land rich in an important resource: sunlight."
Now all we have to do is build a massive worldwide network of new transmission lines, stabilize the governments of Africa, and get every country in the world to agree on how the power is to be shared.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
100million yen is 1 million dollars...That really isn't much money.
That said, the project is incredibly unrealistic, or at least the stated goal is.
100 million yen = 1.2 million USD
Not too shabby, assuming you ignore the inevitable wars and such. There are plenty of people willing to shell that out every year for something like this.
I live in constant fear of the Coming of the Red Spiders.
Why DC when AC is better for long distances?
Professor Koinuma is on the right track here. The Sun, being the most abundant source of renewable energy, is obviously the most efficient resource to power the world.
We could power the world using only a fraction of the Earth's surface area.
I really hope that this project succeeds, even if it is done on a smaller scale.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Bless the Maker and His water^H^H^H^H^H photons.
Bless the coming and going of Him.
May His passage cleanse the world.
May He keep the world for His people.
I wonder if the net warming from the captured and spent energy is greater than what is reflected by the sand (: Guess it would have to be pretty big to have an impact (but it would look awsome from space ;) ).
The thing is, it doesn't cost much to try. And if this thing works, it could be a huge boon for the world. We definitely need to ramp up production on solar to get extra energy. Surplus energy could be used for electric cars of the future. Electric cars could then transport goods cheaper than they do now, allowing for people with low income to afford transportation & food.
God spoke to me.
Hurry, boy.
"Lost time is not found again."
So, how long will this dream last after the first lawsuit to protect some insect local to the area to be covered by solar panels?
Yes, it's not the USA, but the companies involved in the process will be first world companies, with all the potential for idiotic lawsuits implicit in first world sensibilities....
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
100 Million Yen? Well that's like 10 dollars. No big deal!
Solar panels are darker than sand and will therefore absorb more heat from sunlight rather than reflecting it back into space, so wouldn't this make the desert significantly hotter when deployed on a large scale, especially given the low efficiency of solar panels?
You do realize that a lot of the countries in Africa are majority Muslim, right? There's a particularly strong Muslim population in the portion of Africa that covers the Sahara. So, this wouldn't solve your problem at all. But then again little would seeing as you're a bigoted moron.
The Tuaregs and others are probably already decided, who gets to hold which solar-panels for ransom.
First thing I thought of when I heard of this was the problem of distribution.
The video suggests that it would ultimately supply energy "worldwide through DC power lines using high temperature superconductors".
Uhmm... yeah, that's practical.
Even if they did exist, which they don't and there's no indication that's liable to change anytime soon, I'm quite sure that high temperature superconductors would end up being INSANELY expensive due to demand, making their application for anything as large as something like this hopelessly infeasible.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
There are many ways to utilize it without running transmission lines. One simple idea is fuel cells, which would be best if they could also be manufactured out of mostly silica. If they hold their electric charge with enough efficiency, you could eventually have an all-electric transportation system, including the cargo ships used to deliver them worldwide.
No countries have to agree on how to share power. They can either buy it from African nations or not. Until the United States gets involved, at least.
Icarus Energy!
You save only 59 seconds over 8 miles by going 75 instead of 65. Do you really have to pass that guy? Do the Math!
Why DC when AC is better for long distances?
It's not - high voltage is better for long distances than low voltage, but it doesn't matter if it's AC or DC.
AC is better because it can be run through a transformer and stepped up or down to different voltages for long distance or local distribution - it's the high voltage that's better for long distances because Power = Volts x Current, and wires carry voltage more easily than they carry current. The efficiency of the transmission line has nothing to do with wether the voltage is AC or DC, but everything to do with how high the voltage is.
High voltage DC could be used, but before the advent of inverter technology there was no easy way to step a DC voltage up or down, so power generating utilities almost universally use AC.
Using an ideal superconductor instead of normal metal wires would eliminate the resistive losses in the transmission line, but it sure sounds expensive.
DC is used at some points in the power grid, presumably at interconnect sites where power from two or more generating facilities has to be combined and the AC voltages are out of phase or not at the same frequency.
I honestly think the inclusion of superconductors is just to make the project more buzzworthy. There's no advantage to using high voltage DC especially when they're intending to run PV production plants off of it - A/C is much more useful in that case.
At least Saharan Africa is more stable than sub-Saharan Africa politically. Haven't been there since the late 1970s, but it was a fun vacation.
Putting moderation advice in your
with the current exchange rates, 100M¥ are only a little more than 900k €, 700k £ or 1.2M $ (US, CA or AU ; 1.5M $NZ) or 1.2M CHF.
Not cheap, but not a big requirement...
So, am I the only one who thought of the giant solar panels in space on Gundam 00?
Distributing energy from the Sahara to all the world will meet some resistance.
You do know where the Sahara is, right?
And where those "mozzie loony" terrorists have there camps and influence, right?
I'm glad to see an organization/company that is independent of 'Big Oil' move on this. You see the 'Big Oil' companies bragging about green energy this and that, but I think they get in on it to control yet another niche market/patents/technology that infringes on their income with the petroleum-based natural resources they pillage now. What has survived so far in this downed economy in the United States? Fuel, oil and cigarettes. I don't see the biggest renewable energy companies in the world changing their ways of currently lining their pockets with dollar bills until it's too late.
On the subject of silica/sand and the Sahara desert: regardless of how desolate or 'deemed useless' a desert is, it's still an eco-system that makes the world go 'round, so hopefully it doesn't get pillaged in the process.
For some reason adding "Breeder" to the name made me think it's some kind of bashing towards straights.
Sandstorm + Solar Array = ???
Has anyone considered what blocking that much sunlight would do to the desert ecosystem? A nuclear power plant would likly have less of an enviromental / planetary impact and damage alot less surface area on the planet.
Yay! Once again the solution to all the worlds energy problems has been found and posted on slashdot!
History is so yesterday!
At least oil can be stored efficiently and portably. So if your supplier decided to turn off the tap you still have enough reserves to bomb the crap out of them, sorry: that should read negotiate a new deal. With electricity, the moment they flip the switch, all the lights go out.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
We will still be dependent on hateful Muslims. Only we'll be trading an addiction on fossil fuels, for an addiction to cheap solar power. This is just another ugly little power play by greedy, ugly, coffee-coloured barbarians to keep us hooked, and keep us paying the dirty kuffar jizya tax.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-replicating_machine
...though the lack of variety in the materials at hand would hamper the effort a bit. still, fun to dream.
The biggest problem in most African countries (particularly subsaharan) is unemployment. Many African countries have nearly 50% unemployment! Why is this?
Firstly, there are no jobs. There are no jobs because there is little foreign investment in industry. There is little foreign investment in industry because of rampant corruption to the highest levels, thereby creating great instability.
Africa is ofcourse resource rich, so the easiest way to make money there is to extract the raw materials and get it the hell out as quick as possible.
Now, if one were to invest billions in infustructure, that creates jobs. Jobs allow families to fund the education of their children. A better educated populace is able to better take care of themselves and hopefully usher in a better generation of civil leaders.
Providing cheap reliable electricity is also a key component to development. One would hope that some of the power generation from these arrays would help the local populace.
Change like this takes decades, but it happening. Africa is more stable and peaceful now that it has ever been. Considering how far they yet have to go, its quite an acheivement.
~~~ There is no Wikileaks.
This is one of (if not the) oldest hydroelectric power stations in the U.S. It's also a pretty cool bit of architecture on the river.
I toured it about 15 years ago during a motorcycle trip and the guy said that they originally transmitted DC power and that they still did to a metal smelter downriver in Missouri as it was more efficient (no conversion losses) and the long-time customer was still setup to use it.
We'll be able to move away from energy dependence on an unstable region ruled by religious fanatics. Wait - oh, crap.
Meta will eat itself
Terrorists in the Sahara to begin blackmail in 3....2.....1.....
Normally I ascribe all life to intelligent design, but in your case I'll make an exception.
The Splice Must Flow!
has anyone considered the weather impacts of taking all that energy which currently heats the Sahara out of the Sahara so the Sahara isn't being heated so much? It will have a massive effect, not necessarily for the good.
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
I for one welcome our new solar array overlords!
"The lead of the project points out that silica is the second most abundant resource in the Earth's crust."
It is indeed. But the most common element in the Earth's crust is oxygen, hence SiO2 (silica / quartz) is the most common mineral, and it turns out that it is freaking difficult to separate the Si and O in order to derive silicon from silica. It takes a lot energy to separate them, and to properly purify the silicon to make it useful for photovoltaics is challenging too.
To suggest "plenty of sun and sand" == "easy to make solar cells for solar power generation" is silly.
I still wish them luck with it, but it sounds more like a scam.
I heard a geology talk three years ago (during the last commodity runup) that the main limitation on solar technology the relatively rare doping chemicals. there simply isnt enough production in the world to meet projected demand. And this doesnt count other sources of demand such touch electronics, flat screen monitor, electric car batteries, etc. also competing for these chemicals.
Eventually alternative technologies will be developed.
What do you think keeps the superconductor conducting?
If they want to run wires on poles through the desert they have to cool the whole region to 133K.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Nope: still deadly.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
- Raw silica (SiO2, approximately sand) can't be used to build solar cells. Converting silica into silicon (Si, the actual material used in solar cells) requires a high temperature (1900 C) reaction with a carbonaceous fuel like coal. Are they proposing to bring in a steady stream of fossil fuels (oil?) to the Sahara?
- Also, depending on the type of solar cell they are proposing, the crude silicon produced by the above process would have to be refined and possibly crystallized (also a high-temperature process).
- Finally, when talking about superconductors, "high-temperature" does not mean what we would consider hot (the Sahara, for instance), or even warm (e.g. room temp.), but rather "above the boiling point of liquid nitrogen (77 K)". Feasible high-temp. superconductors would still have to be cooled to ~80 K with liquid nitrogen. What is their plan for producing/transporting a steady stream of liquid N2 in the desert?
Others have mentioned problems with transmission grids. Not saying it's impossible, just that there are real scientific and engineering issues. It's not just a matter of some yen and cooperation.
Come now, Number One, we must embrace this new future. By positioning the Sahara as the single source of the electricity, I will be able to hold ransom the global energy supply. The world's super powers will fall over themselves to pay my extortion, lest I blast this new facility with my space-based death-ray and bring their economies to a grinding halt.
Now...it's time to feed my piranha.
I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
Some guy who lives in the Sahara gets a dog, decides to put in a fence, digs a hole, cuts through a cable, and boom -- no electricity for half the world.
A picture might be worth a thousand words, but a few words are worth a thousand informational videos. With rare exceptions, it's about the slowest form of information transfer. Does this project have a website?
This sentence no verb.
Deadly wasteland is land I want to obtain for free and destroy for a big profit. Ecosystem or home is what everyone else calls it.
I think you'll find that as soon as it becomes a viable and valuable resource the outside world will reveal its previously hidden deep concerns about North African politics. Intervention will be needed to liberate the oil^H^H^H sunlight^H^H^H^H^H^H poor oppressed people of the Sahara, remove their leaders^H^H^H^H^H dictators and introduce them to free-world trade.
For their own good, you understand. Protecting their human rights.
I can't help but feel like I already came up with this idea and submitted it to the X-Prize Foundation a few years ago.
Mean Green Von Neumann Machine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqGfYfWcEYM
...did god put all the sunlight in Africa?
life is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think
as to, why aren't they planning on using solar thermal plants? Like this project.
Actually, that's exactly what he said. His bigotry made the point easy to miss, though.
Nobody will find me investing with this! What sort of linear logic goes from dessert -> sand -> silicon -> gobs of free power? Would it be this comes from people who forget the technology required to turn sand into solar panels?
They say "pure silicon" but what do "they" mean by pure? If they talked about setting up a glass factory and making parabolic mirrors I might have more faith. But I still will not invest.
That's roughly $1M, a drop in the bucket for a project like this. Typo?
I see two problems with this approach. First, there is not much point is using desert sand. Silicon can be shipped 200 times further than coal before you get close to the same energy loss. Take the silicon from where it is easiest. Also, take the process energy from where it is easiest, usually hydro power. No need for extra research. Second, there is no need for superconducting transmission. High voltage transmission will do the job. In that part of the world, solar islands may turn out to be the best approach: http://www.solar-islands.com/
Electric grids need constant management to ensure there is sufficient generation to meet the load (we don't store the electricity). If generation is insufficient you'll have to dispatch an intermediate load plant (generally natural gas). All this is done by regional the Independent System Operator (ISO) (nordpool in scandanavia; nepool, caiso, pjm, etc in the US). The real cooperation is in integrating the electricity coming out of the sahara into these regional grids. As the amount varies the ISOs will have to dispatch or turn off plants. If they don't know that the amount they receive from the sahara is about to change: blackout. It's definitely doable, but thats the tricky cooperation issue. Whats with the 100 million yen though; that's a rounding error.
Assuming that you're an American
Always a bad assumption, given that americans only make up 5% of the population - by head-count, at least
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
Now, now. This is Slashdot. We're supposed to advocate green energy, and then stomp all over anyone who makes a serious effort at green energy.
it's short-term thinking like this that got us into this mess... We know the sun is scheduled to burn out, so why build a power infrastructure around it? Zed PM is the only way to go.
The Fuel Cells you refer to convert energy. However there are other fuel cells that store energy. Completely different product, similar only in name:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tank#Racing_fuel_cell
The earth is only 4000 years old so that can't possibly be true.
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
Can't see the video at work, so maybe I'm missing something. But this really seems like pie-in-the-sky to me. A couple of things:
I'm not really sure why the organizers are determined to do this in the most difficult way possible. There's sand and sun all over the place, including many that are a lot closer to electrical markets (the US southwest, for example). So why not just build these things there and sidestep the whole issue of superconducting wires? This plan doesn't make sense to me.
Sorry to be a naysayer but, this will happen only after the current monopolists figure out how to meter the sun.
"The breakup of the Standard Oil monolith resulted in about 37 new companies. Rockefeller still secretly controlled them all by owning a voting majority of stock in the new corporation. Thus Standard Oil would be known as Standard Oil New Jersey (Exxon), Standard Oil New York (Mobil), Standard Oil Indiana (Amoco), Standard Oil California (Chevron), Atlantic Refining (Arco) etc., etc. It was business as usual at 26 Broadway [New York City], the headquarters of the giant." - Niall Kilkenny, Rome, Rockefeller, the U.S. and Standard Oil; The Monarchy of Money
This might be a daft question but think about it : All the energy from the sun hitting the desert gets absorbed as heat into planet. We all know that a lot of the way this planet works is a delicate balance that no-one understands so what happens if we start diverting a significant amount of this energy away? Does it have any knock on effects?
There is an another similar project called http://desertec.org
Great to see these projects getting started.
I would think you'd have to cover up a huge, huge area of the Sahara for it to be a problem? In any case, it would, if anything, probably reduce global warming. Can't see how that'd be a bad outcome?
As a minor side effect, the Sahara desert will be expanded to cover half the world.
K. S. Lackner and C. H. Wendt, “Exponential growth of large self-reproducing machine systems,” Mathematical and Computer Modelling 21, no. 10 (May 1995): 55-81. doi:10.1016/0895-7177(95)00071-9 ; see also wikipedia
Abstract
We address quantitatively the major issues involved in the design of self-reproducing machine systems that are capable of both rapid growth to a very large scale and the accomplishment of correspondingly large tasks. A minimal system that satisfies the growth requirement would consist of a large solar cell array and a colony of diverse and specialized machines. With solar energy, raw dirt, and air as its input, the collective purpose of the colony is to expand the solar cell array and build more machines largely without the aid of man. Once the desired size is attained, the entire production capacity of the system may be diverted to useful applications such as large scale energy collection, control of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, and fresh water production. We consider the issues of resource availability, the suitability of current automation technology, and the required investment in land area. In the discussion of resources, we propose a high-temperature, metallurgical process for separating useful elements from raw dirt without the use of rare elements. Automation technology is judged by a formal productivity requirement in the production chain of each machine type, which must be satisfied to achieve a given overall growth rate. We estimate the time scale for exponential growth to be on the order of months, so that such a system could reach continental size in less than a decade. An area of 106 km2 is enough to provide the key elements of a sustainable world economy. At ten percent efficiency, a solar cell array of this size can collect energy at three times the rate of today's global energy consumption.
But really, what we should be doing is pumping research into modularising Gen3 nuclear reactors and pulling them off the assembly line with standardised, routine safety inspections. Rather than reinventing the wheel each time we need to get Henry Ford about nukes. Build them fast, in an established routine, and it will make them cheap. Then when Gen4 arrives, Gen4 will just eat all that waste. Even just TODAY's nuclear waste could run the world for 500 years! And who knows what they'll have by then? A moon-base shooting solar PV into orbit for 24/7 space based solar power? Now THAT's solar I could live with! (But, with the tiny little detail of requiring the moon-base first. And hey, maybe we'll even crack fusion before then!)
Most of the US is net-metered, so during the bright part of the day you're producing more power than you use, and push back the excess into the grid, making your meter run backwards. If you're not net-metered, it's probably not cost-effective to do solar PV at all. If you need to be totally off the grid, for one thing, you're going to need to cut way back on consumption, because you're not going to be be able to generate huge amounts of power. But given that, a battery system for nighttime doesn't have to be THAT huge. It is quite expensive, though. I was looking into a solar PV system a while back, and although ours was going to be grid-connected, I talked about off-grid systems with our consultant. His recommendation for off-grid people is to skip the batteries and just use a diesel generator to get you through the night - it's a lot more cost effective.
Distributing the power generation capability does a lot of really nice things for you: 1) it cuts down on the number of big cross-country transmission lines you need (and their attendant losses), 2) reduces the probability that a single bad event can take out a huge amount of your generating capability, and 3) evens out your production - instead of a huge peak in solar production around noon Mountain time, your solar production starts off on the east coast in the morning (Eastern Time), and continues fairly smoothly until afternoon (Pacific Time).
As for home solar thermal, you aren't going to generate electricity that way, but you can certainly heat your house and make hot water that way.